Elden Ring TOO HARD Debates Return with Shadow of the Erdtree
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- Опубліковано 5 жов 2024
- A quick summary of my thoughts regarding recent criticism of the Shadow of the Erdtree DLC, and a return of the idea that Elden Ring is too hard. We'll talk about gameplay, performance, FromSoft DLC difficulty, player progression, and the Fundamental Attribution Error.
We all Git Gud together.
No chapters this time; 1) it's short, 2) ideas relate to each other.
Toss a Coin:
streamelements...
i finished yesterday:
I used the black knight hammer with prayerful strike. Did a lot of damage and heals. I had the super armor from that first npc boss at the start. Most times i just face tanked mobs and bosses. Mimic tear was almost invincible. He healed a lot with prayerful strike.
Also summend coop people for some fights. Like the death bird. I never tried any boss more than five times. On the last boss i used a cheat engine and made myself invincible.
At the end i was at scadutree fragmet level 18. DLC Spirit ash on level 9. I was on NG. It was still my first playthrough which i never took to ng+. Level 411. Everything on 80 except strenght, dex and and arcane which where still at 30.
Also Scarlet rot is the "i win button".
I love the new butterfly incantation.
It wasn't that hard.
People just bitch cause it causes drama, drama generates clicks, clicks get them recognized in their mind.
They also vastly overestimate their skills and believe any type of challenge is beneath them.
I'd say the main problem of what went wrong is that when the dlc came out, people were expecting more elden ring. The usual, find boss, learn a bit about it, decide if you need to grind or give it a few more tries, win, rinse repeat.
Instead, the dlc is much more heavily focused on the exploration of the game, ignoring the bosses in favor of finding the tree frags littered about the place to make the damage numbers manageable and turning it back into how elden ring originally play. While sure that had been a factor of elden ring, it wasn't the end-all be-all in terms of mechanics and gameplay, instead just being a bigger version of dark souls where fighting the bosses was the overall main point of the game and dlc.
All in all, this dlc shows a clear shift in idea and game design philosophies that doesn't exactly mesh well with a rather sizable portion of the audience that fromsoft has created.
I'm not saying it's wrong to do so, but with how the game is set they could have tried for a system closer to that of Sekiro where the more boss rush heavy style of gamers can be rewarded for beating bosses with a few tree frags but slowly guiding them to find more instead of the current set up that is more akin to getting punished for playing in a way the base game and prior games had taught them.
Well stated. Perhaps a balance could have been remembrance bosses giving enough shards for a progression level, in addition to what you find in the world. There's more golden seeds than are needed to max out flasks, kinda weird that wasn't the case here.
but the exploration is 90% riding around on the horse... FROM did not hit the nail on the head with a lot of the decisions with the DLC
@@nomercy8989 Sure sure, I think most reasonable folk would agree that it's absolutely possible to recognize and critique flaws in a thing you like overall. Doesn't have to be black and white, yknow?
The DLC is not too hard, people just refuse to explore and use the new weapons, ashes of war, talismans, and most important of all, scadutree fragments. We are all, regardless of rune level or NG cycle, basically lvl 1 as far as the DLC and its monsters are concerned, their BS dmg is there to teach/force you to explore. This is like if everyone was trying to take down the Tree Sentinel at lvl 1 as soon as they started the main game and started complaining about the difficulty, the (at that point in the game) BS boss was there to teach you run away and seek other more manageable challenges before coming back. And yea, I know that you can beat the Tree Sentinel then and there if you just bash your head against the wall enough times so that some of the brain matter goes through the cracks to the other side, I did that with the Blackgaol Knight and have been using his badass set ever since, but the healthy alternative would be to leave and come back later.
Well said. I think people vastly underestimate the importance of the scadutree fragments.
@@baldsquidgaming A part of it might also be the need to change your mindset back to the starting levels. In order to access the DLC you need to have killed Radahn and Mohg, pretty high level bosses in high level areas, so you are probably pretty cocky and used to deleting enemies, taking trades and winning them, running into groups and just doing whatever you want etc.
Suddenly the DLC forces you to play and think like you did your first time in Limgrave, skulk around, pick your fights, pull aggro from bigger groups, stop trading hits etc. on the exact same character you just used to faceroll everything in Mohgs palace a couple of minutes before, I guess it creates a whiplash effect for many people.
@osaasd8018 Yep. Then everyone is all shockedpikachu.jpg when they refuse to meet the game on the game's terms.
If you had a coherent build and were willing to use the games systems, it’s just not that bad. I watched Asmongold bludgeon his way through the base game with a meme build(he beat the base game, credit where it’s due) and then get wrecked in the dlc. The guys that believe dark souls is only legitimate if you do a no hit butt poke run are gonna struggle with this. All the rest of us that actually use the systems are fine.
Mhmmm
the problem with "explore" and youll be fine is thats literally not how the game goes. Iv explored a generous portion of the map, from what i can tell i cant progress outside of killing messmer or the shadurtree avatar, which are both multiple phase fights, and im at lvl 6 personal and lvl 3 ashes. At this point if i want to progress i have to look up the exact locations of these fragments and locate them (while also likely having to re-find and thus eliminate ones iv already gotten). There is no other avenue for getting stronger and just 'explore' isnt an adequate description of what this shitty dlc is asking me to do. Worst part is getting additional blessing doesnt feel like your upgrading your character in the slightest. The next boss is just going to be easier then it otherwise wouldve and theres no scaling or relation to what you did before that.
You can get around 11 or 14 before even touching Messmer and other main bosses. It requires thorough exploration but you can get many without finishing the shadow keep.
@@enman009 like I said in my first comment g Iv explored every pathway I believe is available. At this point I have to look up the actual locations on the wiki and do a little collect-athon. This is why it’s bad game design, and I don’t understand why people think people either haven’t explored or just haven’t used fragments sitting in their inventory…. They just aren’t that easy to naturally come across and the progression is complete jank
Hey there, recently stumbled across your channel and liking the content so far. :)
Regarding the DLC: From what i gather the issue seems to be that bosses are mechanically too fast for the combat in Elden Ring and would rather befit something like Sekiro or even Nioh with how fast they are. Also I read that Fromsoft overdid it with the cheap-shot enemy placements - which is a major red-flag for me because that's what imo most other souls-likes do/get wrong and its just annoying after a time. - Any thoughts on that?
Thanks :D - Agreed re: pacing of bosses, they feel more like DS3’s Nameless King than the base Elden Ring. Not inherently a problem, but requires adjustment. Didn’t run into terribly many cheap shot placements past the castle/shadow keep, but that’s more an opinion on what constitutes cheap?
Was talking with a friend yesterday about the DLC as a whole, and outside of Radahn, much of what I had complaints about in the first playthrough I think were me not meeting the game on its terms, and trying to force it into the box of what I expected. It’s certainly not perfect, but I’m happy with the experience overall.
Bruh the normal mobs are ridiuclous. in particular theres a lot of useless item bait, where they stick items near crowds of enemies or in ambushes where your basically guaranteed to get stun locked to death, and there are multiple items in the dlc that are essentially impossible to pickup without dying after. Enemies regularly have insane aow that typically either have really insane tracking or do lots of stance dmg ontop of they themselves doing lots of dmg. Theres also a bunch of comically horrendous enemies, like they added a bird that shoots rot like a lobster(wtf).
@tonypollyoly It's always interesting seeing how there's variance to which enemy each player feels is the one you just nope out of. Rotbird wasn't a big deal for me, but I HATE the jumpyspinny circle blade users and any mob with a greatsword.
This made me relized I’ve been playing the dlc on ng+4. That’s why it’s been taking me so long.
Ouch. That...that sounds rough lol.
Steam reviews are if you recommend or do not recommend.
I think the DLC is mostly great but the end boss ruins the DLC for me, I am done with these really cheesy bosses that can repeat attacks for 30 seconds and I get to do one little attack before they are ready for another 30 seconds. I got no restrictions yet I just cant beat him. So thus I do not recommend the DLC. Radahn is just like Malenia, a bad boss design.
End boss was rough, yeah. Didn't leave a great last taste for the DLC, despite the rest being great.
@@baldsquidgaming For sure!
I’m sorry did you say you two shot Messmer ? How?
Explore and find the scadutree fragments and revered spirit ashes eventually ull be doing more damage than u do in the lands between
In retrospect 2 shot isn’t the best phrase here. Meant killed on second attempt. Apologies for the confusion.
I think the fact that FSW is no longer making games for solo players is VERY concerning
Clarify? I finished it in offline mode, so I'm unsure what you mean. Doesn't really get more single player experience than that.
@@baldsquidgaming they are designing bosses around people using mimic and ashes. You said it yourself, playing solo is the new challenge run. And that’s concerning. Summons should always be an option, not a solution. And sure, some people will solo, some will RL 1 this dlc, but the masses won’t and FSW knows that.
@@stevemichael652 I may be misremembering, but weren’t NPC summons available for like 11 of the bosses (if you did quests correctly) in DS1+DLC?
@@baldsquidgaming yea something like that, but they were options that you were rewarded with for doing quests and there was a drawback when u used them, like increased HP for bosses. FSW didn’t actually design the bosses intending people to use them, rather they were always solo designed bosses with NPCs as an alternative
In ER and especially the dlc, the bosses are designed for people to use the ashes, making it more of a solution instead of an option
@@stevemichael652 Makes total sense because that's how Miyazaki plays and he always said he makes the game he wants to play. Miyazaki said in an interview that he uses mimic tear he put that in game for himself specifically. checks out and not at all concerning. Hell 1/3 of the PC playerbase has downloaded and used the Seamless Co-Op mod going off the unique download numbers as compared to all time Steam players that's 33% of the players who want to do it.
Checks out like i said, clearly that's what a large portion of people want to do. Co-Op has always been a very large portion of these games much much larger than the PVP player base. I always play solo then play with my son after this type of co op has literally always been here and a major part of the games for people
Beat a few bosses, seems ok so far, NG+3 and not too hard.
Turns out it was just Chinese players down voting due to the anti cheat. English gamers gave it mostly positive