I think people just forget that tonal whiplash is just kind of a Tomino thing. Xabungle was goofy... as goofy as a post-apocalyptic sci-fi western about vengeance can be. That is to say, L-Gaim and Xabungle had some pretty dark moments. And don't get me started with the silly and goofy stuff Dunbine pulled between its serious scenes - the co-pilot for the protagonist is essentially a gag character. Then there's Brain Powerd...
@@LichCryptTrue. Tomino never had a "depression period", almost all of his shows teetered back and forth between goofy hijinks and darkness, even stuff like Zeta Gundam had plenty of lighthearted humor and Xabungle got pretty serious at times as well. I blame SRW personally for exaggerating one aspect over the others for each of these shows, since nobody actually takes the time to watch them.
3:03 Neil Sedaka has stated that he doesn't really care about his songs being used to make the OPs (iirc Mizu no Hoshi e Ai wo Komete's base song wasn't even released) The issue is the record companies (especially the Japanese ones) are so draconian it's infinitely easier to play it safe. Edit: i'm 99% sure you know this, but Yazan is LITERALLY the Gundam version of Dick Dastardly, as in SD Gundam literally copied Wacky Races to the point they couldn't release it on DvD and he filled that role
Speaking solely about that SD Gundam Wacky Racers spoof, it still amazes me that Wacky Racers was relatively popular in Japan that various anime have parodied it, like Osomatsu-san, Koni-chan, and you could argue Mario Kart is an homage to the cartoon as well But looking at Mercury's video about the Time Bokan villains videon, it seems Hannah Barbera cartoons left an impact on anime that is not well known
@@pablocasas5906 It wasn't even the only Hannah Barbera- to-SD thing made, they also made one based off of Laff-a-lympics. the general connection there is probably pretty interesting as you said
@@pablocasas5906 I think Wacky Races and it's Japanese popularity is something Falcon should cover one day. It's rare that a Western cartoon got as ingraved in Japanese pop culture as WR did.
Yeah that blew my mind. Id assume most UC fans would at least like the terrestrial mobile-suit maneuvering. Wing is also pretty good its just for a particular audience. Its not badly written or animated.
@@Detective_L Same. I know about people disliking Wing and I get their reasons, but MS Team definitely not! Also first half of ZZ was near impossible for me to watch, but I recognize I really liked the last 10 or 15 episodes of the show.
I'm glad I got into Gundam in recent years, with Blu-ray releases being widely available. All the HD restorations of the cel-animated series look excellent, I guess Sunrise/Bandai really took great care in preservation and restoration. For context, I'm one of the fans that got introduced to the series through The Witch from Mercury. While that series didn't interest me much, especially not the first season, it did get me to check out the original series and watch mostly in production order from there. In fact, I'd say the original series renewed my love of Sci-fi after Disney Star Wars kind of killed it. Currently the only series I have left to watch are everything UC from Unicorn onward, G-Reco, and IBO, which I'm currently watching. ZZ is...strange. I loved MSG and Zeta, and I knew going in that ZZ would give me tonal whiplash, but I still ended up having a love/hate relationship with the series, perhaps that would change on a second watch. It could also be that I just don't usually like most Japanese comedy, including the type that ZZ uses. Yet, as a whole, the series has excellent moments and one of my favourite villains in Gundam, Haman Karn, and carries over the art style, production value, and attention to detail that I loved in Zeta.
99% of people who claim shit about Evangelion haven't even watched Evangelion. The amount of disinformation surrounding that show is so vast they helped irredeemably corrupt the wider anime fandom's perception of mecha as a genre.
Just want to say that Cartoon Network did in fact finish the original run of Mobile Suit Gundam. The show was pulled from the normal Toonami block for a while but was allowed to finish later on during the Toonami Midnight Run block. Also, the whole 9/11 thing was just used as an excuse to pull the show for it's poor performance. As for Gundam ZZ, the show is the epitome of a 7/10 for me. The show has very high-highs but also lots of low-lows too. It's worth a watch but probably not a re-watch IMO.
ZZ is unironically my personal favorite UC Gundam show, and Judeau is my favorite main universe Gundam pilot, and the ZZ is my favorite Main universe Gundam (with his Build fighters Variant, the Tryon-3, being my absolute favorite Gundam). It is as you said, people wanted more of the dreary edgelord tone we got at the end of Zeta, which honestly I think would've destroyed Gundam narratively for the future. It would've had the same detrimental effekt on Gundam story-telling as GoT's random character killing did on the fantasy genre.
Judau is essentially your typical super robot pilot. The scenbthat exemplifies it the most is when Wang (the AEUG director) tried to beat him like he did with Kamille, Judau dodged and knocked him out. And to be honest the ZZ Gundam itself feels like, with its combining mechanism and forhead beam, like an hybrid between Getter and Gundam.
I do find it interesting that the slapstick ZZ is so known for does date back to the original show and to a lesser extent Zeta as well (some of its slapfests leaned more comedic than dramatic). The original show had some pretty wacky slapstick animation at times, like the Zeon Gouf pilot sliding down his mobile suits leg like a pole, or the infamojs Jaburo snake.
The original Gundam 0079 was in a very weird spot, it's kind of a transitional series in the history of anime, and especially mecha like Falcon mentioned in his Go Nagai video I remember a goofy scene were Amuro made an Earth Federation officer so angry that he was about to slap him, but Amuro dogged his slap, the officer made a very cartoony and strange face in that scene
@@byron2FZ I don't think it was meant to show Amuro's Newtype abilities, I interpreted it as a call-back to the infamous Bright-slap scene, Amuro now dodging the slap
I've been a Gundam superfan since the moment I first saw Gundam Wing in middle school. From there, I watched any western release that I could get my hands on. When I was in college, I made a friend who loved Gundam as much as I do. In 2010, we decided to watch it all. We...uh... acquired the library, and went through MSG. Then we got to see Zeta for the first time. It was amazing, and Zeta remains my favorite Gundam series to this day. When we got into ZZ it was... shocking. But we quickly got into it, and I definitely still enjoy watching it. The tonal shift is a lot, but the series does get to the Gundam of it all eventually.
I always thought that the mood shift from Zeta to ZZ was because the audience would be desensitized to the constant violence. As such, I appreciate the idea that ZZ started by letting us know that there are ordinary people there and how war would change them, for better or worse. Anyway, thank you for the vid. For all its flaws, I still like ZZ. It knows what it wants to do, and it's not afraid to drop a colony to do it.
That was definitely the goal. Tomino wanted to bring in some levity. You can see that with Judau as a protagonist well; he's a lot more emotionally stable and grounded compared to Amuro and Kamille.
This is weird. I kind of have a mirrored perspective, even though I only watched ZZ with the Right Stuff Bluray release and I didn’t really interact with the online fandom. I LOVE the middle of ZZ when their on Earth, somewhat annoyed by the beginning (though find it funny af), and kinda hate the past part when they invade Side 3 (mostly how Axis Zeon just kinda dies by infighting and Haman’s unceremonious send off). All the episodes on Earth are peak Gundam though, but I love how Zeta ends and disagree with the choice to radically correct on artistic grounds so idk. Also, 8th MS Team is PEAK! I will fight you! If you are going to re-evaluate any of the OVAs re-evaluate 0083. I love it but it thematically conflicts with the rest of the franchise and is kinda Imperial Japanese fan fiction.
I think the point about the time and place we experienced a show is immensely important. Before streaming, when you had to run home from school or download some 140p fan subbed file from Kazaa to see this stuff, shit really hit different. And to that point... I'll never forgive you for saying Gundam Wing is bad.
Thanks for the video and hope your appeal is successful so your channel is monetized again. The first third of ZZ is rough: despite liking Judeau, the rest of the gang was not as great Roux and Elle are barely used and I dislike Beecha and Mondo (the Zeon villians were meh). But as the story got serious after the African storyline the show got better. Also, Haman Khan rules (thanks to Yoshiko Sakakibara's great job as VA)
Great video! I did my watch of 0079-CCA earlier this year, and i also appreciated the comedic tones of ZZ after the immense heaviness of Zeta's ending. Something I found roaming the web about ZZ had me learn that part of the reason why japanese fans at the time didn't like the tone change was a worry that gundam was going to turn into a gag series, which with hindsight we can see wasn't a permanent change. Really glad to see you mention the historical context behind how we watch shows, cause i also am fascinated by it.
I definately think the comedy being so slapstick was a bit of a thermal shock on a narrative level even with knowing what was going into it. Maybe if it was a self-contained storyline and not a direct sequel, it would've been more welcomed generally.
Yeah, I think the main problem is that it was coming from something already established and completely changing the mood of things and characterizations. If they were all new characters or a new series entirely, it may have been less of a shock to people. But then the question is if they would have watched it in the first place.
I think it's precisely the fact it's not completely standalone that drastically changes the perspective. As Falcon mentioned, Xabungle and Daitarn 3 are a thing and those two are generally the most well loved Tomino shows in the west (not including Gundam, obviously). That's why Kid Hora's behaviour in Xabungle, for example, feels natural while Yazan's in ZZ is at complete odds with his ruthless Feyd - Rautha knockoff persona from Zeta.
@@mechamaniac1567 Yazan's not nearly as degenerate as a Harkonen. He grabbed some dude's dick and his most famous line is "I'm gonna violate you," but he also refused the colony gassing mission and genuinely flipped out at the complete insanity of deploying his underlings in Hizaks.
The problem with the initial sales for Zeta on DVD was that it was originally only sold as a 50 episode box set. I think it was about 200USD, although can't remember. It also included "dubtitles" which were corrected to proper subtitles when Right Stuf released the series in smaller collections. So having bought the LDs and the import DVDs I ended up buying the dubtitled box set, only to buy the rerelease with proper subs, and later the BD releases making Zeta the series that I have purchased the most number of times. You are also correct about the backlash for Gundam ZZ from my perspective as I did manage to watch it as it was being released. Not only was it a jarring change, but as this was only the third Gundam there was this sense if this was the direction that Gundam would take from here on. I was a huge Zeta fan, and despite not having copies for a couple years on video until 1987 (Betamax) would go through the film comics on a very regular basis. I would still follow ZZ with the small hope to see Char return and the story returning to a more Zeta mood. Interesting thing is that I didn't imagine that Char would return with the Neo Zeon and be fighting against Amuro again, so I also initially reacted a bit negatively to CCA which I now love.
1:37 sounds like a certain AU that should've wrapped up a trilogy as well. Of course I'm talking about Gundam X... if you're counting Turn A as the AU equivalent to CCA. From where I'm from, I was never able to watch UC from TV, and had to actively search and build an interest for it online (yeah, Unicorn was my entry to UC). To be fair to 8th MS Team, it didn't receive the same amount of vitriol Wing had upon re-evaluation despite having some weird (maybe melodramatic is a better word) moments like Wing and ZZ. If anything, it was Stardust Memory that got more heat due to Nina's actions (which the manga addressed).
Love the the 1st 3 minutes of this man. Must have been tough finding information on the topic and trying to condense it as much as possible a skill overlooked by many Im also glad you mentioned how most people experience a show for the 1st time since its not a discussed topic especially given how limited pircacy and internet sites were so most went off of memory. Thi gs can get lost in the sauce and reintrocing oneself to the same material can be a eye opener or deal breaker
The closest we’ll get is the English versions of those Dynasty Warriors Gundam games for the PS3. Judau’s a playable character and several ZZ characters pop up during gameplay, plus it’s all dubbed by the same company that handled the Toonami Gundam dubs
your right about how we experience something should be brought up more. i've thought about batch releases vs weekly releases too, and after the writers strike i hear that's one thing they might bring back
I watched all the way through Zeta and then immediately started ZZ. I had been told that it's slapsticky and that makes it bad, which I think lowered my expectations to the point where honestly I was blown away. If I hadn't seen the new tone coming I might have been annoyed with it, so you're definitely right that context matters. Knowing it was gonna be different, I could laugh at Chara Soon and declare Mashymire bestboi. And then... the mid series dick punches start. And you know what? I liked it! We saw not just Mondo but Judau change and grow from enduring tragedies. Is it the best Gundam? No, not at all. But it least it doesn't have a Gundam based on a windmill in it.
I really like Mashymre’s character because yes he’s goofy but that’s because he’s trying to be a heroic, chivalrous, soldier of honor in a world that won’t support that, he’s not a bad pilot or stupid, he’s a man trying to live up to an ideal that simply has no place in the world he lives in and fights in the name of someone else who couldn’t care less about him which is a very gundam tragedy in itself
The big problem with ZZ is that it takes place in the same universe as the original Gundam and Z. If it had been a unique series or a spin-off like G-Gundam it would have been better accepted, it would have been a much better idea than being a direct sequel. It's sad to see completely mischaracterized characters like Bright. I confess that I didn't like this series at all until it changed the tone again because it's what suits the Gundam universe more and I feel that it was here that Tomino started to losing his hand in the following series that he directed and even the series outside the franchise that he directed.
I started ZZ shortly after watching Zeta. The tone shift was very weird, but I needed some light hearted fun when I binged the series while in isolation recovering from Covid. Seeing the Argama crew, and Kamille and Fa happy in the ending was very uplifting, and I appreciate that.
I think your half right about the tone problem with Zeta, Regular Zeta is understandably dark because of the subject matter, double Zeta however had no reason having the tittle of Zeta because the mistake here wouldn't be saved until they decided to split off from the main franchise and do alternate universes like Mobile suit fighter G Gundam, that's how you take a break from a story like gundam, You don't do a parody of it within its own universe and ask why the tone is messed up and why everything is out of character you simply pause, stand up, walk into the other room and take a laugh while the Lawrence of Arabia intermission screen plays on and hopefully have a pint or two with the boys.
This is a good example of why I hate looking at things in a vacuum. It may be good standalone, even the best. But id argue ot brings down everything that came before and afterwards.
12:02 To be fair to the evil harem lord, he doesn't even touch her, she jumps onto her boyfriend for a fall of about 5 feet and somehow just dies. because the animation budget ran out or something,
I came down here just to say 2 things. 1. Just watched Victory Gundam in 2021 and it is on another level of miserable and hate it. 2. You do good work.
I watched it myself in 2022 after putting it off for years, and I have to say, I'm of the same opinion. That said, if it being like that was the reason why we got Turn A as we got it, I'm fine with it being the way that it is.
Yeah, that part of the video talking about people reevaluating Victory shocked me to no end. The hate for ZZ comedic is tone is definitely overblown and I eagerly agree with the inconsistency later on being a bigger issue. V however is irredeemable in how cruel it is to its cast and its audience. Zeta's depressing ending is earned with the sense of dread and inevitability it spreads through out the show and (for the most part) makes you care about the characters that die. Victory kills indiscriminately just because its a Gundam show and then jarring zanier scenes than ZZ pop up when you'd least expect them.
before toonami, they brought Gundam F91 over to the west (was aired on the Sci-Fi Channel in the early 90s sometimes) it was the first gundam series I saw.
Welcome back MercuryFalcon. I haven't watched ZZ Gundam yet although I got to see the characters and mechs whenever I play Super Robot wars. I guess a lot of people hated ZZ Gundam because it was different compared to its predecessor and having it be lighthearted is a stark contrast to the overall theme and tone of what an UC Gundam is all about.
I'm going to be honest. Z is my favorite anime and starting ZZ felt like going from the top of the mountain to falling face first into mud, but god damnit i'm thankful for it. I'm not edgy enough to think that dark=better, but i do preffer the darker setting of Zeta, but i will say that after the first few episodes, ZZ became one of my favorite anime, up on par with the original 0079. Like starting from episode 10 onwards, when the argama leaves shangri-la, the show grew progressively more serious, specially by using the potential of the new cast they introduced with ZZ. Yes, the anime in general is lighter, but when the situation presents itself, it is almost as dark as Zeta, and the world reacts pretty well to it. Plus it had me on a "fuck you" moment at the chinese colony episode, where my favorite sound track (the mobile suit fight soundtrack from Zeta) finally played but on the goofiest battle ever, and i couldn't help but feel amused that, in a paralel universe, tomino did that to shove on my face that it was not just more Zeta gundam, and i really liked it. As a whole, ZZ is an anime that depends a lot on previous' series build up to catch up to, but alone, it becomes a very well set up saga, and god help me haman karn is peak fiction, and i will die defending her honor if such is required of me. Please, watch ZZ. It also gave my favorite character (kamille) a very good ending to his arc and made it all worth it in the end, and, even then, it encapsulates the philosophy if tomino's work perfectly. Children are the future, we just gotta give them a chance.
Def agree that the setting and experience of how you encounter or watch anything really will set an impression. There's a lot of shows I didn't give a good chance with due to the circumstances of how I was watching it. I also have an extreme fondness for particular series from the fansub vhs days, even in retrospect they weren't very good. And oh god, Stone Ocean is such a perfect example. That whole ordeal was heartbreaking.
ZZ has the best MS designs of the era, it has puri, it has the best Gundam OP thus far with Silent Voice, it has Puru, its tone shift doesn't forget having some levity still, it has Puri, Haman Karn gets to shine in a whole new way, it has Puru, it doesn't have Char, and before I forget, it has Puru.
honestly, I kind of lucked out watching ZZ right after rewatching G Gundam, The two are much more similar in tone to each other than ZZ is to Zeta and G is to Wing. However, After War X is a great show to pair with either. It has a lot of light-hearted movement while still being engaging. It's also relatively unknown to a lot of Western Fans and wasn't received well when it aired in Japan. if you are looking for more underrated Gundam series, I recommend it.
After War is weirdly hated by a lot of western fans, too. An apparently common criticism is that it’s too dark and angsty, which makes me wonder if they saw the same show I did.
ZZ Gundam was the first Gundam series I ever watched, and I was completely baffled. I did not got to see OG Gundam and Z until the 2010s but there was a lot of info online before that to know what these shows were about. Coming to ZZ I was expecting a heavy military drama as the other shows were depicted to be. I did enjoy ZZ and the latter half became way more dramatic but for many year until I got to see the original it felt that I was missing something.
I had a fun time watching ZZ for the first time. I just like the way tomino does humour, its really silly. Also the animation was a big reason, its as stylized as it get for gundam, probably the second best looking tv gundam after Turn A.
Hell yeah. This vid got recommended to me after months of trying to remember what your channel name was 🤧 I've been subbed for a minute. I knew if I watched enough Kenny Lauderdale and Pyramid Inu that the algorithm would bless me yet again. I guess I should hit that bell and whatnot lol
"Someone acting sexual or cute, related to OWO and UWU. Similar to "bestie". The word "oomfie" usually carries this definition combined with one of the following alternate definitions. Sometimes it is meant as a joke or said ironically. However sometimes the word is used with zero sexual connotation. 1. Twitter follower or mutual. See also: "OOMF" which means "One of my Followers", "One of my Friends", or occasionally "One Of My 'Follow Topics'." 1a. Sometimes specifically a person sharing a lot of personal information on Twitter, and the viewer is an outsider and mere witness. 2. Significant other, close friend. 3. Any given person who looks or acts sexy or cute. 4. Specific or nonspecific anime girl. Possibly a waifu." 1-4 pick which one
I remember during my last years of high-school, back in 2011, I decided to watch most of the Gundam shows that I could download with Spanish subs and I managed watched the entire U.C. series I actually enjoyed ZZ, I known the show has a weird tonal shift compared to Zeta, but it was a nice change, I also found the characters very likeable Uh, also I forgot to mention, the titular Gundam ZZ's design is great, I wonder if the kit was successful back when the show aired. And we also have to remember that Ple/Puru was one of the most popular anime characters in general in the 80s
I gotta say having watched all of ZZ recently, I found the humor genuinely refreshing, it'd be one thing if the show was going for comedy but failed. but it doesn't, it succeeds at being genuinely funny more often than not, at least imo.
My brother in the 80's used to import japanese mecha model kits. I wish i could remember the name of the catalog he ordered from. I know he ordered the catalog from starlog.
The "how" part of discovering Gundam absolutely influenced me. Thanks to the endless impenetrable Gundam articles in Animag, all I needed to know about Gundam, for decades, was that Gundam didn't NEED any MORE fans and could be safely ignored. I did watch Wing, once. The sound effects were good. The show wss otherwise only worth the single viewing. And I like X Gundam because I found the music CDs and fell in love with that aspect without ever having seen the show. Once I did see it, the show turned out to be good and I greatly enjoy it. And I like Dragonar a lot. It is way better than people say. It just needed a bigger animation budget. Neither of those shows have a lot of fans or got those damn Animag pagefiller articles, so I feel like there actually is room to be a fan of these shows with having all the oxygen in the room consumed by the existing fans. That said, I never had any interest in the gated ZZ because it's a sequel to those damn Animag article and golly, have I mentioned enough how much I hated that stuff?
Couldn't agree more on your comments on setting and expectations. It's a big part of why i find some of my own experiences being so different from people who experiences anime in a post-streaming world. Case in point: YYH, and it's Dark tournament arc. While seen by many now as one of the best arcs of it's kind, it was really not viewed as such at the time. That's because, it was a very long arc, with several matches that's clearly not meant to have few (if any) lasting consequences. This is A-ok if you pirate the whole thing in one go, or binge it on streaming. Watching it weekly on TV or on DVD (the latter of which i did), meant you could wait weeks before something worthwhile happened. Tl;Dr setting absolutely colours once experience, especially what does and doesn't try your patience.
Rewatched it recently. Personally thought it suffered from some of the same problems as 0083, just to a lesser extent: spectacular animation, but with a lackluster plot and characters.
I knew nothing of what other people's opinion on Gundam were when I started watching the UC shows. I finished Zeta Gundam, then immediately started Double Zeta Gundam. I fucking hated all the goofy stuff. However, later on once Double Zeta Gundam because serious again I really liked it. To me Double Zeta is 50% the best of gundam, and 50% the worst, and it whiplashes between the two wildly.
I went into Zeta Gundam with high expectations and was left a bit disappointed and frustrated. Too many pointless battles, poor pacing (a common problem with 50 episode Gundam shows) and the Rosamia plot felt like a complete recycle of Four. Also the Titans felt cartoonishly evil, so it didn't even have that "there are no clear good and bad guys" element from the original Gundam. The Titans were just straight up irredeemable. So after all that, and with the knowledge that ZZ Gundam was a weird experience I still gave up on it after around ... 15 episodes? (the part where the gang go to a moon with indigenous looking people, I think). The main, especially Beecha and Oleg were so annoying, I was actively rooting for them to be killed. Roux was good and I was interested in where Haman's Neo Zeon was going, but the bad just outweigh the good. Maybe I will give it another chance one day.
I agree about the experience of seeing these things as anime is something that, for a time, was often impossible to enjoy optimally for various reasons. All that said, the way I experienced ZZ was a fresh pirated BD rip almost ten years ago after I just finished Zeta. I did not enjoy the comedic shift to ZZ specifically because everything in it is coming directly off of Zeta, complete with all that remained of the cast by its conclusion. I gave it a chance and finished it but I'm in no hurry to see it again. The best summary I can give is that ZZ introduces a bunch of wacky cartoon characters and magically and arbitrarily makes the setting established by Mobile Suit Gundam and Zeta Gundam really really stupid in order to facilitate them not dying horrible so they can become the new main characters. The first appearance of Yazan establishes this as he's shown to be highly skilled and ruthless up to his final appearance in Zeta which was days prior chronologically, but now he's just Wile E. Coyote because if he was his usual self the limping Argama crew and their new rag tag kids would have gotten much worse than Saegusa getting killed (Only to show up again at the very end because they either forgot they killed him or neglected to mention he lived). There are great parts in the show and it's cool but even in a vacuum it has trouble deciding if it wants to be zany or serious. I don't hate the show and I understand why it is the way it is. Victory's historical reception vs. its fan re-evaluation also hits with me, as I first saw Victory during a very bitter and dark time in my life and my real-life circumstances colored my opinion of it, which was that it was terrible and I hated it. But then I learned more about the production and how similar Tomino's disposition was to my own, how so many things I didn't enjoy were either corporate meddling or Tomino and the staff doing stupid shit to spite the corporation for meddling. What really changed was my disposition after the fact. I thought about all the great dramatic parts occasionally over the years and re-evaluated it myself and find I want to see it again. I still think Victory has the most hectic and exciting final stretch of any Gundam media. For me, Victory honestly feels like an inverse to ZZ. ZZ's comic farce foundation is not solid enough for its serious moments to land gracefully, and Victory's occasional attempts at comical farce fall flat because most weeks you're tuning into an oppressive macabre spectacle. Great video as usual!
Yeah I made the mistake of going into ZZ blind after just finishing Zeta. and boy it was a rough time for me. But after spending like half a year going through it. I can say I came out a lot more positive then I originally thought I would be. Probably helps that I like Judau quite a bit.
Personally I love Double Zeta! I watched the series raw in a garage way back in 95 building model kits. I was amazed at its art and the beautiful mesh designs! Years later, I was granted a subbed HK version before getting the Right Stuf edition. It was thrilling to rewatch it and a bit odd at the final shifts. Don't get me wrong, its well deserved after finishing the very depressing Zeta series. Some folks were angry at ZZ, and claimed Tomino took charge later which was why the series got more serious. I'm just glad you cleared that up as this had been an annoying rumor for years!❤ Excellent video my friend! Look forward to more!
I do find the ZZ crossdressing arc deeply funny, but also a little bit touching? I'm sure it wasn't intentional given the era, but Lino straight up finds a subtle new confidence in himself after those eps. He's apprehensive at first but seems genuinely flattered by peoples comments and comes away from it feeling more "lino" than ever. I find it pretty relatable ngl. (Now, I'm not saying lino is trans, I don't think the show suggests this, it could easily be the opposite. this experience, briefly being someone else, could have instilled lino with further confidence in *who he is*)
I have to say that going into ZZ knowing the mood whiplash was there definitely helped me with not being upset with it. I had bought the Zeta Gundam DVD's back in the day and had "obtained" a digital copy of ZZ to watch around a year later. And while I enjoy the silly aspects of ZZ Gundam I still feel I would have preferred if it hadn't veered the direction it did at the beginning and enjoyed it even more when it went back to darker subject matter. Probably not surprising since the original Gundam and Zeta are tied for my favorite Gundam series.
I only got into Gundam in late 2013/early 2014 as a teenager, mostly thanks to Gundam Breaker. The Unicorn really caught my eye for whatever reason, so that was my proper introduction to the anime. ZZ was one of the earlier ones that I watched after that, but it's been far too long since I looked at the stuff I watched when I started Gundam, aside from Unicorn. If I ever have the time in the future, I really want to go back to watch Z and ZZ once more.
don't know if this is true or not but bandai entertainment was apparently planning to dub after war X after finishing Wing but Sunrise didn't let them. Though i'm gonna be honest and say this thing is more than likely untrue cause it sounds insane.
ZZ is and will always be a dumpster fire. Had they kept it light hearted and not gone full-on Three Stooges right away, it wouldn't have been such an issue. But I have other issues with ZZ besides the first half being a clown show and that lies mostly in how Neo Zeon is treated. There is no satisfying conclusion to Neo Zeon's threat. The rebellion led by Glemmy fizzles out with him dying like a punk and then Haman has her final showdown with Judau only to just sort of give up and crash into the remains of Mosa and die. Overall, the recent revisionism on ZZ is a lot like the Star Wars prequels. The movies suck but look better in comparison to other entries in that franchise. In the lead up to the Disney films, there was this new wave of "the prequels were actually really good" articles online much like we see with ZZ now. That being said, ZZ maybe a dumpster fire that bounces from one extreme to another, but it is entertaining and not all of the humor falls flat. Plus, without ZZ there are no Ple clones. If there are no Ple clones then there is no best girl Marida in Unicorn...or like 75% of the Zeon mobile suits you see in Unicorns run. Plus if you take the tonal shifts out and just look at the big picture of how it fits into the UC timeline, there are several big events in ZZ that you simply can't ignore if you want a proper understanding of anything in the UC after ZZ.
Didn't all old Gundam series, including the original Mobile Suit Gundam get an English dub VHS release? It doesn't have the yellow tint effect that the DVD release had, if I remember correctly.
Its worth noting that while ZZ is more comedic, original Zeta is more of an odd one out, with almost no lighthearted moments. Even the introduction of Shinta and Qum who are meant to be there as levity, only manage to put Fa in a stranglehold until shes the only pilot left and there is no choice but to rely on her. 0079 was full of moments where you could laugh or giggle. It feature traumatised psychic toddlers foiling a military empire for god sake.
I think the reason Double Zz was negatively received was DUE to it taking place right after zeta gundam. If it took place waaaay after zeta it probably would have been received much better.
I never watch zz Gundam BUT because you make a video about now I have to watch z and zz just for enjoy the most I can your video (next comment in few week about your video) 😊
Yeah, I had picked up the 2 box Bandai set of Zeta around '09 or so. I had seen Char's Counterattack around '92 and it was one of my first animes I had on VHS (bootleg). I wanted to fill in the gaps. So I dug Zeta and wanted to find ZZ. That probably took a year when I found it on DVD (bootleg) from an anime shop. So with that time gap it was mad jarring to see that tonal shift without knowing it was coming. Now knowing the original airing happened a week after the conclusion of Zeta Is like holy shit LMAO That musta been an experience, and can definitely see how it'd color one's experience with the ZZ series as I had about a year+ gap and was still a little shocked at the first couple of episodes.
I watched it when I was a kid. No memory what so ever. Then I rewatch it when gundam info has put it up. I have to say I love double Zeta more than Zeta gundam. Oh and for those who likes Double Zeta. Make sure that you read the Moon Gundam comiic. Moon Gundam start off at the colony Moon Moon that Double Zeta the last few episodes had taken place. Many recognize character like Amuro and Princess Mineva are in the story. An nonstop action comic that bridges ZZ and Chars counter atatck.
I started ZZ right after I finished Zeta. I loved Zeta and was excited to see more of it, to say the least I was really disappointed. I like the more dark and gritty Gundam animes and ZZ was the complete opposite, I was kind of glad when the tone shifted halfway through but I still wasn't a fan of it and by the end I started hating it again. Looking back I'd say it wasn't as bad as I made it out to be but it's definitely really low on my UC tier list. P.S. I really love comedy animes but it was simply not what I wanted to see with ZZ.
the most interesting thing about gundam zz is th only dub of any undubbed gundam series is the dynasty warriors game have a dub cast that i do like hearing
That point about the circumstance in how you watched a show having an effect is poignant. It's probably why I have a rather deep dislike for Gundam Seed Destiny, as I watched that during the Japanese broadcast via fansubs after Seed had ended and there was a huge hype train online for Destiny in the early episodes. And the show was living up to the hype, to the point people were willing to overlook silly decisions like bringing Mu back as amnesiac masked villain Neo. I was glued to the torrents as they downloaded, eager to watch the next episode... until the episodes where Athrun suddenly flees ZAFT and Lacus suddenly finds this abandoned facility that has all of Durandal's "evil plans" laying there to be found. The turn from Shinn and Athrun being the focal characters and seemingly being in the right while Kira looked like the misguided one, to seeing multiple plot conveniences happening to swap their places, was incredibly unappealing and felt like a betrayal from the show. I ended up dropping the show a few episodes later... I had never dropped a Gundam show before, everything before Destiny I had watched to completion, sometimes with repeat viewings. It really soured me on modern Gundam for a long time; I couldn't get invested in 00, dropped it, tried to watch AGE, dropped it. It wasn't until IBO when I finally felt at home with Gundam again. But I can understand how someone today could watch Destiny and like it, because the circumstances aren't the same now.
08th MS Team... bad? That's the first time I hear someone saying that 🤯 I've heard the same about Wing and I can kinda see why, but 08th was very good!
For my experience with ZZ, at first I had it as a “maybe” after I finished watching Zeta, then started watching ZZ a couple weeks later I thought the early episodes did pretty well to get you used to the new tone and character cast, and while the eps after the crew left Shangri-La were cool, they weren’t too memorable outside of a few. Then the earth arc hits, and the show for me became really good! Around this point I started to grow attached to the main cast more than I ever did with Zeta, and it really helped with my enjoyment of the show. All of this led up to honestly one of my favorite finales in Gundam, and Haman became my favorite character because of this series.
If ZZ isn’t a anime, that means Judau and Mark are both real people
One of them is the destroyer of worlds
The other is Mark
Anime ja nai
You both clearely watched the show
So dose gundam zz have a dub and where can I get it
Zambot 3 was dark then Daitarn 3 was goofy, Ideon was dark then Xabungle was goofy too
Dunbine was dark and L-Gaim was goofy too. The trend is clear.
Victory was dark then Turn A was (kinda) goofy
I think people just forget that tonal whiplash is just kind of a Tomino thing. Xabungle was goofy... as goofy as a post-apocalyptic sci-fi western about vengeance can be.
That is to say, L-Gaim and Xabungle had some pretty dark moments. And don't get me started with the silly and goofy stuff Dunbine pulled between its serious scenes - the co-pilot for the protagonist is essentially a gag character.
Then there's Brain Powerd...
@@LichCryptTrue. Tomino never had a "depression period", almost all of his shows teetered back and forth between goofy hijinks and darkness, even stuff like Zeta Gundam had plenty of lighthearted humor and Xabungle got pretty serious at times as well. I blame SRW personally for exaggerating one aspect over the others for each of these shows, since nobody actually takes the time to watch them.
3:03 Neil Sedaka has stated that he doesn't really care about his songs being used to make the OPs (iirc Mizu no Hoshi e Ai wo Komete's base song wasn't even released) The issue is the record companies (especially the Japanese ones) are so draconian it's infinitely easier to play it safe. Edit: i'm 99% sure you know this, but Yazan is LITERALLY the Gundam version of Dick Dastardly, as in SD Gundam literally copied Wacky Races to the point they couldn't release it on DvD and he filled that role
Speaking solely about that SD Gundam Wacky Racers spoof, it still amazes me that Wacky Racers was relatively popular in Japan that various anime have parodied it, like Osomatsu-san, Koni-chan, and you could argue Mario Kart is an homage to the cartoon as well
But looking at Mercury's video about the Time Bokan villains videon, it seems Hannah Barbera cartoons left an impact on anime that is not well known
@@pablocasas5906 It wasn't even the only Hannah Barbera- to-SD thing made, they also made one based off of Laff-a-lympics. the general connection there is probably pretty interesting as you said
@@pablocasas5906 I think Wacky Races and it's Japanese popularity is something Falcon should cover one day. It's rare that a Western cartoon got as ingraved in Japanese pop culture as WR did.
The Neil Sedaka bit was a joke, I know he doesn't care if a cartoon has a song based on one of his.
I think the JAPANESE rights are ironclad, it's the international ones that Sunrise never bothered to buy. Would be cool to see Mr. Sedaka's interview.
Yeah I agree, ZZ gets too much... what the hell you say about 08th MS Team???
Yeah that blew my mind. Id assume most UC fans would at least like the terrestrial mobile-suit maneuvering.
Wing is also pretty good its just for a particular audience. Its not badly written or animated.
That might be the first time I’ve ever someone say they hate MS Team and Wing and I’ve never heard anyone like the first half of ZZ. Very strange
@@Detective_L Same. I know about people disliking Wing and I get their reasons, but MS Team definitely not! Also first half of ZZ was near impossible for me to watch, but I recognize I really liked the last 10 or 15 episodes of the show.
I think all the gundam series are pretty cool
except seed
(the only series I've finished is 0080)
@@Detective_L "How strange, someone that doesn't have the same opinion others have. Impossible!"
I'm glad I got into Gundam in recent years, with Blu-ray releases being widely available. All the HD restorations of the cel-animated series look excellent, I guess Sunrise/Bandai really took great care in preservation and restoration.
For context, I'm one of the fans that got introduced to the series through The Witch from Mercury. While that series didn't interest me much, especially not the first season, it did get me to check out the original series and watch mostly in production order from there. In fact, I'd say the original series renewed my love of Sci-fi after Disney Star Wars kind of killed it. Currently the only series I have left to watch are everything UC from Unicorn onward, G-Reco, and IBO, which I'm currently watching.
ZZ is...strange. I loved MSG and Zeta, and I knew going in that ZZ would give me tonal whiplash, but I still ended up having a love/hate relationship with the series, perhaps that would change on a second watch. It could also be that I just don't usually like most Japanese comedy, including the type that ZZ uses. Yet, as a whole, the series has excellent moments and one of my favourite villains in Gundam, Haman Karn, and carries over the art style, production value, and attention to detail that I loved in Zeta.
People say that Evangelion is the darkest mecha but Gundam deserves that title
99% of people who claim shit about Evangelion haven't even watched Evangelion. The amount of disinformation surrounding that show is so vast they helped irredeemably corrupt the wider anime fandom's perception of mecha as a genre.
@@mechamaniac1567 Agreed
Tomino's Ideon be like: hold my beer 🗿
@@yangwen-li4283 Ideon makes Evangelion look like a Disney Channel series
Just want to say that Cartoon Network did in fact finish the original run of Mobile Suit Gundam. The show was pulled from the normal Toonami block for a while but was allowed to finish later on during the Toonami Midnight Run block. Also, the whole 9/11 thing was just used as an excuse to pull the show for it's poor performance. As for Gundam ZZ, the show is the epitome of a 7/10 for me. The show has very high-highs but also lots of low-lows too. It's worth a watch but probably not a re-watch IMO.
ZZ is unironically my personal favorite UC Gundam show, and Judeau is my favorite main universe Gundam pilot, and the ZZ is my favorite Main universe Gundam (with his Build fighters Variant, the Tryon-3, being my absolute favorite Gundam).
It is as you said, people wanted more of the dreary edgelord tone we got at the end of Zeta, which honestly I think would've destroyed Gundam narratively for the future. It would've had the same detrimental effekt on Gundam story-telling as GoT's random character killing did on the fantasy genre.
Judau is essentially your typical super robot pilot. The scenbthat exemplifies it the most is when Wang (the AEUG director) tried to beat him like he did with Kamille, Judau dodged and knocked him out. And to be honest the ZZ Gundam itself feels like, with its combining mechanism and forhead beam, like an hybrid between Getter and Gundam.
I do find it interesting that the slapstick ZZ is so known for does date back to the original show and to a lesser extent Zeta as well (some of its slapfests leaned more comedic than dramatic).
The original show had some pretty wacky slapstick animation at times, like the Zeon Gouf pilot sliding down his mobile suits leg like a pole, or the infamojs Jaburo snake.
Zeta and the first Gundam are very slapstick too, you're right
The original Gundam 0079 was in a very weird spot, it's kind of a transitional series in the history of anime, and especially mecha like Falcon mentioned in his Go Nagai video
I remember a goofy scene were Amuro made an Earth Federation officer so angry that he was about to slap him, but Amuro dogged his slap, the officer made a very cartoony and strange face in that scene
@@pablocasas5906 i think I remember that scene and though goofy, it may have also served to show off his Newtype reflexes?
@@byron2FZ I don't think it was meant to show Amuro's Newtype abilities, I interpreted it as a call-back to the infamous Bright-slap scene, Amuro now dodging the slap
I've been a Gundam superfan since the moment I first saw Gundam Wing in middle school. From there, I watched any western release that I could get my hands on. When I was in college, I made a friend who loved Gundam as much as I do. In 2010, we decided to watch it all. We...uh... acquired the library, and went through MSG. Then we got to see Zeta for the first time. It was amazing, and Zeta remains my favorite Gundam series to this day. When we got into ZZ it was... shocking. But we quickly got into it, and I definitely still enjoy watching it. The tonal shift is a lot, but the series does get to the Gundam of it all eventually.
Tomino is at his peak not writing dark shows, but rather goofy fun adventures
That occasionally punch you in the gut
The best way to enjoy older anime like gundam ZZ is watching the fansub version if you can still find it.
Glad you're back.
Spot on about first experiencing a TV show or film.
It's not taken into account much these days.
excellent videos and what a shame about the YT hassle - been there many times myself dude it’s truly a headache
I always thought that the mood shift from Zeta to ZZ was because the audience would be desensitized to the constant violence. As such, I appreciate the idea that ZZ started by letting us know that there are ordinary people there and how war would change them, for better or worse.
Anyway, thank you for the vid. For all its flaws, I still like ZZ. It knows what it wants to do, and it's not afraid to drop a colony to do it.
That was definitely the goal. Tomino wanted to bring in some levity. You can see that with Judau as a protagonist well; he's a lot more emotionally stable and grounded compared to Amuro and Kamille.
This is one of my favourite Gundams.
A lot of Gundam takes them selves too seriously with not so fun protagonist. This one has a great ballance.
why do you think that
Mobile Suit Gundam: The 08th MS Team is Bad?
This is weird. I kind of have a mirrored perspective, even though I only watched ZZ with the Right Stuff Bluray release and I didn’t really interact with the online fandom. I LOVE the middle of ZZ when their on Earth, somewhat annoyed by the beginning (though find it funny af), and kinda hate the past part when they invade Side 3 (mostly how Axis Zeon just kinda dies by infighting and Haman’s unceremonious send off). All the episodes on Earth are peak Gundam though, but I love how Zeta ends and disagree with the choice to radically correct on artistic grounds so idk. Also, 8th MS Team is PEAK! I will fight you! If you are going to re-evaluate any of the OVAs re-evaluate 0083. I love it but it thematically conflicts with the rest of the franchise and is kinda Imperial Japanese fan fiction.
I think the point about the time and place we experienced a show is immensely important. Before streaming, when you had to run home from school or download some 140p fan subbed file from Kazaa to see this stuff, shit really hit different.
And to that point... I'll never forgive you for saying Gundam Wing is bad.
Thanks for the video and hope your appeal is successful so your channel is monetized again.
The first third of ZZ is rough: despite liking Judeau, the rest of the gang was not as great Roux and Elle are barely used and I dislike Beecha and Mondo (the Zeon villians were meh). But as the story got serious after the African storyline the show got better. Also, Haman Khan rules (thanks to Yoshiko Sakakibara's great job as VA)
Great video! I did my watch of 0079-CCA earlier this year, and i also appreciated the comedic tones of ZZ after the immense heaviness of Zeta's ending.
Something I found roaming the web about ZZ had me learn that part of the reason why japanese fans at the time didn't like the tone change was a worry that gundam was going to turn into a gag series, which with hindsight we can see wasn't a permanent change. Really glad to see you mention the historical context behind how we watch shows, cause i also am fascinated by it.
I love your well researched and written videos!!
I definately think the comedy being so slapstick was a bit of a thermal shock on a narrative level even with knowing what was going into it. Maybe if it was a self-contained storyline and not a direct sequel, it would've been more welcomed generally.
Yeah, I think the main problem is that it was coming from something already established and completely changing the mood of things and characterizations. If they were all new characters or a new series entirely, it may have been less of a shock to people. But then the question is if they would have watched it in the first place.
I think it's precisely the fact it's not completely standalone that drastically changes the perspective. As Falcon mentioned, Xabungle and Daitarn 3 are a thing and those two are generally the most well loved Tomino shows in the west (not including Gundam, obviously). That's why Kid Hora's behaviour in Xabungle, for example, feels natural while Yazan's in ZZ is at complete odds with his ruthless Feyd - Rautha knockoff persona from Zeta.
@@mechamaniac1567 Yazan's not nearly as degenerate as a Harkonen. He grabbed some dude's dick and his most famous line is "I'm gonna violate you," but he also refused the colony gassing mission and genuinely flipped out at the complete insanity of deploying his underlings in Hizaks.
figures why Yazan is Dick Dastardly in that OVA where they lampooned the Wacky Races.
The problem with the initial sales for Zeta on DVD was that it was originally only sold as a 50 episode box set. I think it was about 200USD, although can't remember. It also included "dubtitles" which were corrected to proper subtitles when Right Stuf released the series in smaller collections. So having bought the LDs and the import DVDs I ended up buying the dubtitled box set, only to buy the rerelease with proper subs, and later the BD releases making Zeta the series that I have purchased the most number of times.
You are also correct about the backlash for Gundam ZZ from my perspective as I did manage to watch it as it was being released. Not only was it a jarring change, but as this was only the third Gundam there was this sense if this was the direction that Gundam would take from here on. I was a huge Zeta fan, and despite not having copies for a couple years on video until 1987 (Betamax) would go through the film comics on a very regular basis. I would still follow ZZ with the small hope to see Char return and the story returning to a more Zeta mood. Interesting thing is that I didn't imagine that Char would return with the Neo Zeon and be fighting against Amuro again, so I also initially reacted a bit negatively to CCA which I now love.
Double Zeta is peak
Really liked the comedic start of ZZ
1:37 sounds like a certain AU that should've wrapped up a trilogy as well. Of course I'm talking about Gundam X... if you're counting Turn A as the AU equivalent to CCA.
From where I'm from, I was never able to watch UC from TV, and had to actively search and build an interest for it online (yeah, Unicorn was my entry to UC).
To be fair to 8th MS Team, it didn't receive the same amount of vitriol Wing had upon re-evaluation despite having some weird (maybe melodramatic is a better word) moments like Wing and ZZ. If anything, it was Stardust Memory that got more heat due to Nina's actions (which the manga addressed).
I threw you some Patreon bucks, nice to see you back man
Love the the 1st 3 minutes of this man. Must have been tough finding information on the topic and trying to condense it as much as possible a skill overlooked by many
Im also glad you mentioned how most people experience a show for the 1st time since its not a discussed topic especially given how limited pircacy and internet sites were so most went off of memory. Thi gs can get lost in the sauce and reintrocing oneself to the same material can be a eye opener or deal breaker
Pity there's yet to be a dub. I could see this entry being an interesting airing on the current Toonami block.
The closest we’ll get is the English versions of those Dynasty Warriors Gundam games for the PS3.
Judau’s a playable character and several ZZ characters pop up during gameplay, plus it’s all dubbed by the same company that handled the Toonami Gundam dubs
I thought there was a dub, but it's mostly lost?
I wouldn't trust anyone but the old Ocean team who did Wing and 0079. Scott McNeil as Judau I think might work but he's getting old.
@@fakesmile172 Southeast Asia English dub yes, mostly lost media.
your right about how we experience something should be brought up more. i've thought about batch releases vs weekly releases too, and after the writers strike i hear that's one thing they might bring back
Damn, good to see you back.
Thanks for the video, it perfect explains the context and I love ZZ
I watched all the way through Zeta and then immediately started ZZ. I had been told that it's slapsticky and that makes it bad, which I think lowered my expectations to the point where honestly I was blown away. If I hadn't seen the new tone coming I might have been annoyed with it, so you're definitely right that context matters. Knowing it was gonna be different, I could laugh at Chara Soon and declare Mashymire bestboi. And then... the mid series dick punches start. And you know what? I liked it! We saw not just Mondo but Judau change and grow from enduring tragedies. Is it the best Gundam? No, not at all. But it least it doesn't have a Gundam based on a windmill in it.
this is really fucking well written. good job.
I really like Mashymre’s character because yes he’s goofy but that’s because he’s trying to be a heroic, chivalrous, soldier of honor in a world that won’t support that, he’s not a bad pilot or stupid, he’s a man trying to live up to an ideal that simply has no place in the world he lives in and fights in the name of someone else who couldn’t care less about him which is a very gundam tragedy in itself
The big problem with ZZ is that it takes place in the same universe as the original Gundam and Z. If it had been a unique series or a spin-off like G-Gundam it would have been better accepted, it would have been a much better idea than being a direct sequel. It's sad to see completely mischaracterized characters like Bright. I confess that I didn't like this series at all until it changed the tone again because it's what suits the Gundam universe more and I feel that it was here that Tomino started to losing his hand in the following series that he directed and even the series outside the franchise that he directed.
I started ZZ shortly after watching Zeta. The tone shift was very weird, but I needed some light hearted fun when I binged the series while in isolation recovering from Covid. Seeing the Argama crew, and Kamille and Fa happy in the ending was very uplifting, and I appreciate that.
I think your half right about the tone problem with Zeta, Regular Zeta is understandably dark because of the subject matter, double Zeta however had no reason having the tittle of Zeta because the mistake here wouldn't be saved until they decided to split off from the main franchise and do alternate universes like Mobile suit fighter G Gundam, that's how you take a break from a story like gundam, You don't do a parody of it within its own universe and ask why the tone is messed up and why everything is out of character you simply pause, stand up, walk into the other room and take a laugh while the Lawrence of Arabia intermission screen plays on and hopefully have a pint or two with the boys.
This is a good example of why I hate looking at things in a vacuum. It may be good standalone, even the best. But id argue ot brings down everything that came before and afterwards.
12:02 To be fair to the evil harem lord, he doesn't even touch her, she jumps onto her boyfriend for a fall of about 5 feet and somehow just dies. because the animation budget ran out or something,
I came down here just to say 2 things. 1. Just watched Victory Gundam in 2021 and it is on another level of miserable and hate it. 2. You do good work.
Late U.C. is so bleak that a pregnant woman has to fight on the front lines...
I watched it myself in 2022 after putting it off for years, and I have to say, I'm of the same opinion. That said, if it being like that was the reason why we got Turn A as we got it, I'm fine with it being the way that it is.
Yeah, that part of the video talking about people reevaluating Victory shocked me to no end. The hate for ZZ comedic is tone is definitely overblown and I eagerly agree with the inconsistency later on being a bigger issue. V however is irredeemable in how cruel it is to its cast and its audience. Zeta's depressing ending is earned with the sense of dread and inevitability it spreads through out the show and (for the most part) makes you care about the characters that die. Victory kills indiscriminately just because its a Gundam show and then jarring zanier scenes than ZZ pop up when you'd least expect them.
before toonami, they brought Gundam F91 over to the west (was aired on the Sci-Fi Channel in the early 90s sometimes) it was the first gundam series I saw.
I have had a mercury falcon shaped hole in my life for too dang long!
Welcome back MercuryFalcon. I haven't watched ZZ Gundam yet although I got to see the characters and mechs whenever I play Super Robot wars. I guess a lot of people hated ZZ Gundam because it was different compared to its predecessor and having it be lighthearted is a stark contrast to the overall theme and tone of what an UC Gundam is all about.
13:17 But both* his stepsisters are dead.
*The Puru in Evolve might be 2.
Agreed
I'm going to be honest. Z is my favorite anime and starting ZZ felt like going from the top of the mountain to falling face first into mud, but god damnit i'm thankful for it. I'm not edgy enough to think that dark=better, but i do preffer the darker setting of Zeta, but i will say that after the first few episodes, ZZ became one of my favorite anime, up on par with the original 0079. Like starting from episode 10 onwards, when the argama leaves shangri-la, the show grew progressively more serious, specially by using the potential of the new cast they introduced with ZZ. Yes, the anime in general is lighter, but when the situation presents itself, it is almost as dark as Zeta, and the world reacts pretty well to it. Plus it had me on a "fuck you" moment at the chinese colony episode, where my favorite sound track (the mobile suit fight soundtrack from Zeta) finally played but on the goofiest battle ever, and i couldn't help but feel amused that, in a paralel universe, tomino did that to shove on my face that it was not just more Zeta gundam, and i really liked it. As a whole, ZZ is an anime that depends a lot on previous' series build up to catch up to, but alone, it becomes a very well set up saga, and god help me haman karn is peak fiction, and i will die defending her honor if such is required of me.
Please, watch ZZ. It also gave my favorite character (kamille) a very good ending to his arc and made it all worth it in the end, and, even then, it encapsulates the philosophy if tomino's work perfectly. Children are the future, we just gotta give them a chance.
Def agree that the setting and experience of how you encounter or watch anything really will set an impression. There's a lot of shows I didn't give a good chance with due to the circumstances of how I was watching it. I also have an extreme fondness for particular series from the fansub vhs days, even in retrospect they weren't very good.
And oh god, Stone Ocean is such a perfect example. That whole ordeal was heartbreaking.
ZZ has the best MS designs of the era, it has puri, it has the best Gundam OP thus far with Silent Voice, it has Puru, its tone shift doesn't forget having some levity still, it has Puri, Haman Karn gets to shine in a whole new way, it has Puru, it doesn't have Char, and before I forget, it has Puru.
honestly, I kind of lucked out watching ZZ right after rewatching G Gundam, The two are much more similar in tone to each other than ZZ is to Zeta and G is to Wing. However, After War X is a great show to pair with either. It has a lot of light-hearted movement while still being engaging. It's also relatively unknown to a lot of Western Fans and wasn't received well when it aired in Japan. if you are looking for more underrated Gundam series, I recommend it.
After War is weirdly hated by a lot of western fans, too. An apparently common criticism is that it’s too dark and angsty, which makes me wonder if they saw the same show I did.
ZZ Gundam was the first Gundam series I ever watched, and I was completely baffled. I did not got to see OG Gundam and Z until the 2010s but there was a lot of info online before that to know what these shows were about. Coming to ZZ I was expecting a heavy military drama as the other shows were depicted to be. I did enjoy ZZ and the latter half became way more dramatic but for many year until I got to see the original it felt that I was missing something.
I had a fun time watching ZZ for the first time. I just like the way tomino does humour, its really silly. Also the animation was a big reason, its as stylized as it get for gundam, probably the second best looking tv gundam after Turn A.
weren't many videogames featuring UC available?
Hell yeah. This vid got recommended to me after months of trying to remember what your channel name was 🤧 I've been subbed for a minute. I knew if I watched enough Kenny Lauderdale and Pyramid Inu that the algorithm would bless me yet again. I guess I should hit that bell and whatnot lol
"Someone acting sexual or cute, related to OWO and UWU. Similar to "bestie".
The word "oomfie" usually carries this definition combined with one of the following alternate definitions. Sometimes it is meant as a joke or said ironically. However sometimes the word is used with zero sexual connotation.
1. Twitter follower or mutual.
See also: "OOMF" which means "One of my Followers", "One of my Friends", or occasionally "One Of My 'Follow Topics'."
1a. Sometimes specifically a person sharing a lot of personal information on Twitter, and the viewer is an outsider and mere witness.
2. Significant other, close friend.
3. Any given person who looks or acts sexy or cute.
4. Specific or nonspecific anime girl. Possibly a waifu."
1-4 pick which one
imagine Neon Genesis Evangelion, but as an 70s-80s gag comedy anime.
I remember during my last years of high-school, back in 2011, I decided to watch most of the Gundam shows that I could download with Spanish subs and I managed watched the entire U.C. series
I actually enjoyed ZZ, I known the show has a weird tonal shift compared to Zeta, but it was a nice change, I also found the characters very likeable
Uh, also I forgot to mention, the titular Gundam ZZ's design is great, I wonder if the kit was successful back when the show aired. And we also have to remember that Ple/Puru was one of the most popular anime characters in general in the 80s
agreed
I gotta say having watched all of ZZ recently, I found the humor genuinely refreshing, it'd be one thing if the show was going for comedy but failed. but it doesn't, it succeeds at being genuinely funny more often than not, at least imo.
My brother in the 80's used to import japanese mecha model kits. I wish i could remember the name of the catalog he ordered from. I know he ordered the catalog from starlog.
Starting the video with Stand Up to the Victory as background music? Based.
The "how" part of discovering Gundam absolutely influenced me. Thanks to the endless impenetrable Gundam articles in Animag, all I needed to know about Gundam, for decades, was that Gundam didn't NEED any MORE fans and could be safely ignored. I did watch Wing, once. The sound effects were good. The show wss otherwise only worth the single viewing. And I like X Gundam because I found the music CDs and fell in love with that aspect without ever having seen the show. Once I did see it, the show turned out to be good and I greatly enjoy it. And I like Dragonar a lot. It is way better than people say. It just needed a bigger animation budget. Neither of those shows have a lot of fans or got those damn Animag pagefiller articles, so I feel like there actually is room to be a fan of these shows with having all the oxygen in the room consumed by the existing fans. That said, I never had any interest in the gated ZZ because it's a sequel to those damn Animag article and golly, have I mentioned enough how much I hated that stuff?
I don't know what people were talking about ZZ is in character for Gundam. Is it my Favorite U.C. story, no, but it fits.
Couldn't agree more on your comments on setting and expectations. It's a big part of why i find some of my own experiences being so different from people who experiences anime in a post-streaming world. Case in point: YYH, and it's Dark tournament arc.
While seen by many now as one of the best arcs of it's kind, it was really not viewed as such at the time. That's because, it was a very long arc, with several matches that's clearly not meant to have few (if any) lasting consequences. This is A-ok if you pirate the whole thing in one go, or binge it on streaming. Watching it weekly on TV or on DVD (the latter of which i did), meant you could wait weeks before something worthwhile happened.
Tl;Dr setting absolutely colours once experience, especially what does and doesn't try your patience.
08th MS team bad?
Yeah that threw me. One of my favourites. Really appreciate the lowered power level
Rewatched it recently. Personally thought it suffered from some of the same problems as 0083, just to a lesser extent: spectacular animation, but with a lackluster plot and characters.
Yes. Very.
N-nuh-uh!
@@thedudeabiding1582
Uh-huh
I knew nothing of what other people's opinion on Gundam were when I started watching the UC shows. I finished Zeta Gundam, then immediately started Double Zeta Gundam. I fucking hated all the goofy stuff. However, later on once Double Zeta Gundam because serious again I really liked it. To me Double Zeta is 50% the best of gundam, and 50% the worst, and it whiplashes between the two wildly.
SILENT VOICE INTENSIFIES
I went into Zeta Gundam with high expectations and was left a bit disappointed and frustrated. Too many pointless battles, poor pacing (a common problem with 50 episode Gundam shows) and the Rosamia plot felt like a complete recycle of Four. Also the Titans felt cartoonishly evil, so it didn't even have that "there are no clear good and bad guys" element from the original Gundam. The Titans were just straight up irredeemable.
So after all that, and with the knowledge that ZZ Gundam was a weird experience I still gave up on it after around ... 15 episodes? (the part where the gang go to a moon with indigenous looking people, I think). The main, especially Beecha and Oleg were so annoying, I was actively rooting for them to be killed. Roux was good and I was interested in where Haman's Neo Zeon was going, but the bad just outweigh the good. Maybe I will give it another chance one day.
I think its interesting that Tomino was trying to set up the titans two electric boogaloo for a while but ended up getting cockblocked on that.
I agree about the experience of seeing these things as anime is something that, for a time, was often impossible to enjoy optimally for various reasons. All that said, the way I experienced ZZ was a fresh pirated BD rip almost ten years ago after I just finished Zeta. I did not enjoy the comedic shift to ZZ specifically because everything in it is coming directly off of Zeta, complete with all that remained of the cast by its conclusion. I gave it a chance and finished it but I'm in no hurry to see it again. The best summary I can give is that ZZ introduces a bunch of wacky cartoon characters and magically and arbitrarily makes the setting established by Mobile Suit Gundam and Zeta Gundam really really stupid in order to facilitate them not dying horrible so they can become the new main characters. The first appearance of Yazan establishes this as he's shown to be highly skilled and ruthless up to his final appearance in Zeta which was days prior chronologically, but now he's just Wile E. Coyote because if he was his usual self the limping Argama crew and their new rag tag kids would have gotten much worse than Saegusa getting killed (Only to show up again at the very end because they either forgot they killed him or neglected to mention he lived). There are great parts in the show and it's cool but even in a vacuum it has trouble deciding if it wants to be zany or serious. I don't hate the show and I understand why it is the way it is.
Victory's historical reception vs. its fan re-evaluation also hits with me, as I first saw Victory during a very bitter and dark time in my life and my real-life circumstances colored my opinion of it, which was that it was terrible and I hated it. But then I learned more about the production and how similar Tomino's disposition was to my own, how so many things I didn't enjoy were either corporate meddling or Tomino and the staff doing stupid shit to spite the corporation for meddling. What really changed was my disposition after the fact. I thought about all the great dramatic parts occasionally over the years and re-evaluated it myself and find I want to see it again. I still think Victory has the most hectic and exciting final stretch of any Gundam media. For me, Victory honestly feels like an inverse to ZZ. ZZ's comic farce foundation is not solid enough for its serious moments to land gracefully, and Victory's occasional attempts at comical farce fall flat because most weeks you're tuning into an oppressive macabre spectacle.
Great video as usual!
Wait, back up...what the hell is wrong with 08th MS team?
Forced romance and a change in direction due to the death of the director. Also, the bonus episode is useless
Yeah I made the mistake of going into ZZ blind after just finishing Zeta. and boy it was a rough time for me. But after spending like half a year going through it. I can say I came out a lot more positive then I originally thought I would be. Probably helps that I like Judau quite a bit.
Personally I love Double Zeta! I watched the series raw in a garage way back in 95 building model kits. I was amazed at its art and the beautiful mesh designs! Years later, I was granted a subbed HK version before getting the Right Stuf edition. It was thrilling to rewatch it and a bit odd at the final shifts. Don't get me wrong, its well deserved after finishing the very depressing Zeta series. Some folks were angry at ZZ, and claimed Tomino took charge later which was why the series got more serious. I'm just glad you cleared that up as this had been an annoying rumor for years!❤ Excellent video my friend! Look forward to more!
I do find the ZZ crossdressing arc deeply funny, but also a little bit touching? I'm sure it wasn't intentional given the era, but Lino straight up finds a subtle new confidence in himself after those eps.
He's apprehensive at first but seems genuinely flattered by peoples comments and comes away from it feeling more "lino" than ever.
I find it pretty relatable ngl.
(Now, I'm not saying lino is trans, I don't think the show suggests this, it could easily be the opposite. this experience, briefly being someone else, could have instilled lino with further confidence in *who he is*)
Up until this point in time the only thing I care about ZZ is Elpeo Ple.
I have to say that going into ZZ knowing the mood whiplash was there definitely helped me with not being upset with it. I had bought the Zeta Gundam DVD's back in the day and had "obtained" a digital copy of ZZ to watch around a year later. And while I enjoy the silly aspects of ZZ Gundam I still feel I would have preferred if it hadn't veered the direction it did at the beginning and enjoyed it even more when it went back to darker subject matter. Probably not surprising since the original Gundam and Zeta are tied for my favorite Gundam series.
I only got into Gundam in late 2013/early 2014 as a teenager, mostly thanks to Gundam Breaker. The Unicorn really caught my eye for whatever reason, so that was my proper introduction to the anime. ZZ was one of the earlier ones that I watched after that, but it's been far too long since I looked at the stuff I watched when I started Gundam, aside from Unicorn. If I ever have the time in the future, I really want to go back to watch Z and ZZ once more.
All I have to say is that this is my favorite Gundam tv series. Not favorite Gundam thing, just tv series. All criticisms are invalid.
I noticed lot of comedy writers are incredibly good at making dark stories that have weight, what's the connection between the too?
They hate it dark but when it given light atmosphere people still complain. People being too choser sometimes
The NS tracks was not included in my RS dvds.
don't know if this is true or not but bandai entertainment was apparently planning to dub after war X after finishing Wing but Sunrise didn't let them. Though i'm gonna be honest and say this thing is more than likely untrue cause it sounds insane.
I just wish the first 33% of ZZ was in an ova and condensed to make it less of a slog to get through
Nice
ZZ is and will always be a dumpster fire. Had they kept it light hearted and not gone full-on Three Stooges right away, it wouldn't have been such an issue. But I have other issues with ZZ besides the first half being a clown show and that lies mostly in how Neo Zeon is treated. There is no satisfying conclusion to Neo Zeon's threat. The rebellion led by Glemmy fizzles out with him dying like a punk and then Haman has her final showdown with Judau only to just sort of give up and crash into the remains of Mosa and die. Overall, the recent revisionism on ZZ is a lot like the Star Wars prequels. The movies suck but look better in comparison to other entries in that franchise. In the lead up to the Disney films, there was this new wave of "the prequels were actually really good" articles online much like we see with ZZ now. That being said, ZZ maybe a dumpster fire that bounces from one extreme to another, but it is entertaining and not all of the humor falls flat. Plus, without ZZ there are no Ple clones. If there are no Ple clones then there is no best girl Marida in Unicorn...or like 75% of the Zeon mobile suits you see in Unicorns run. Plus if you take the tonal shifts out and just look at the big picture of how it fits into the UC timeline, there are several big events in ZZ that you simply can't ignore if you want a proper understanding of anything in the UC after ZZ.
Also, Judau not a bad protag.
Didn't all old Gundam series, including the original Mobile Suit Gundam get an English dub VHS release? It doesn't have the yellow tint effect that the DVD release had, if I remember correctly.
7:00 i was thinking if rewatching it actually. I think the week to wejk airings were what hyrt more st the time
Its worth noting that while ZZ is more comedic, original Zeta is more of an odd one out, with almost no lighthearted moments. Even the introduction of Shinta and Qum who are meant to be there as levity, only manage to put Fa in a stranglehold until shes the only pilot left and there is no choice but to rely on her. 0079 was full of moments where you could laugh or giggle. It feature traumatised psychic toddlers foiling a military empire for god sake.
I remember Demarco wanted to air Turn A but couldnt get the OK by bandai
I still love Gundam Wing and G Gundam. But ZZ is enjoyable too
I think the reason Double Zz was negatively received was DUE to it taking place right after zeta gundam. If it took place waaaay after zeta it probably would have been received much better.
MercFalc I love what you're doin here but I can't cosign "08th MS Team is bad"
I never watch zz Gundam BUT because you make a video about now I have to watch z and zz just for enjoy the most I can your video (next comment in few week about your video) 😊
Cubix shoutout! I wish someone did a video on it
Yeah, I had picked up the 2 box Bandai set of Zeta around '09 or so. I had seen Char's Counterattack around '92 and it was one of my first animes I had on VHS (bootleg). I wanted to fill in the gaps.
So I dug Zeta and wanted to find ZZ. That probably took a year when I found it on DVD (bootleg) from an anime shop. So with that time gap it was mad jarring to see that tonal shift without knowing it was coming. Now knowing the original airing happened a week after the conclusion of Zeta Is like holy shit LMAO
That musta been an experience, and can definitely see how it'd color one's experience with the ZZ series as I had about a year+ gap and was still a little shocked at the first couple of episodes.
I watched it when I was a kid. No memory what so ever. Then I rewatch it when gundam info has put it up. I have to say I love double Zeta more than Zeta gundam.
Oh and for those who likes Double Zeta. Make sure that you read the Moon Gundam comiic. Moon Gundam start off at the colony Moon Moon that Double Zeta the last few episodes had taken place. Many recognize character like Amuro and Princess Mineva are in the story. An nonstop action comic that bridges ZZ and Chars counter atatck.
I started ZZ right after I finished Zeta. I loved Zeta and was excited to see more of it, to say the least I was really disappointed. I like the more dark and gritty Gundam animes and ZZ was the complete opposite, I was kind of glad when the tone shifted halfway through but I still wasn't a fan of it and by the end I started hating it again. Looking back I'd say it wasn't as bad as I made it out to be but it's definitely really low on my UC tier list.
P.S. I really love comedy animes but it was simply not what I wanted to see with ZZ.
the most interesting thing about gundam zz is th only dub of any undubbed gundam series is the dynasty warriors game have a dub cast that i do like hearing
That point about the circumstance in how you watched a show having an effect is poignant. It's probably why I have a rather deep dislike for Gundam Seed Destiny, as I watched that during the Japanese broadcast via fansubs after Seed had ended and there was a huge hype train online for Destiny in the early episodes. And the show was living up to the hype, to the point people were willing to overlook silly decisions like bringing Mu back as amnesiac masked villain Neo. I was glued to the torrents as they downloaded, eager to watch the next episode... until the episodes where Athrun suddenly flees ZAFT and Lacus suddenly finds this abandoned facility that has all of Durandal's "evil plans" laying there to be found.
The turn from Shinn and Athrun being the focal characters and seemingly being in the right while Kira looked like the misguided one, to seeing multiple plot conveniences happening to swap their places, was incredibly unappealing and felt like a betrayal from the show. I ended up dropping the show a few episodes later... I had never dropped a Gundam show before, everything before Destiny I had watched to completion, sometimes with repeat viewings. It really soured me on modern Gundam for a long time; I couldn't get invested in 00, dropped it, tried to watch AGE, dropped it. It wasn't until IBO when I finally felt at home with Gundam again. But I can understand how someone today could watch Destiny and like it, because the circumstances aren't the same now.
08th MS Team... bad? That's the first time I hear someone saying that 🤯
I've heard the same about Wing and I can kinda see why, but 08th was very good!
For my experience with ZZ, at first I had it as a “maybe” after I finished watching Zeta, then started watching ZZ a couple weeks later
I thought the early episodes did pretty well to get you used to the new tone and character cast, and while the eps after the crew left Shangri-La were cool, they weren’t too memorable outside of a few.
Then the earth arc hits, and the show for me became really good! Around this point I started to grow attached to the main cast more than I ever did with Zeta, and it really helped with my enjoyment of the show. All of this led up to honestly one of my favorite finales in Gundam, and Haman became my favorite character because of this series.