This video lets anyone who thinks this is voodoo go right to it and get it done. Bravo to David Moss. This man has given more and done more for motorcycling enjoyment than any highly paid shops. I hope he knows just how much he is appreciated.
Thank you for taking the time to post and I sincerely appreciate your kind words. Comments like your let me know the content and knowledge provide dis appreciated.
I have been looking for the past 2 hors to find a video that talks about getting rid of the sticky fork seals and you guys answered it. Stiction is the word and I am super excited to try the greasing method. Thank you guys and excellent video!
This guy is the dieseltechron of sportbikes. Having both a power stroke and sport bikes these guys are as good as gold. Good stuff man appreciate the content and most importantly you explain why you're doing what you're doing and what not to do also.
Good tutorial. Call me crazy, but with the amount of glitter in that oil, I'd disassemble it and clean it up proper. It's not rocket science. Oil was dumped out, but that metal was at the bottom, so there's still more inside, likely in the piston/shim stack. The owner of that bike would be well served to clean the fork tubes as much as his tank or exhaust. 😅
That’s a fast and clever way to fix stiction. I’m about to replace the oil in my 97 Suzuki RF900s forks. I even have my own custom progressive springs that I upgraded from the stock dual rate! ( also over 24 years old). I’m glad I decided to refresh on this by watching your videos! You’re a great help!
Wow! 10 Years ago I had to rebuild my forks every year, because they were leaking. Massive amount of work because I pulled everything apart. Now I think I know my problem. I didn't pushed the air out of the inner cardrige and stored the forks horizontal till I needed them. Big thanks to Dave Moss! I wish we had someone with your skill in Germany who's doing the same service to costumers.
@@catalystreactionsbw I've been watching a lot of your Videos the last few days and I do understand more and more of my mistakes I've done over the years.
Honestly thanks Dave, I've always known of you as a legend in the sportbike track community, This video helped me go from feeling like my leaking fork was the end of the world to just another chance to refresh my bike and bring it back to performing how it should. Especially being a second owner and the bike being at ab 12 mi, where the description describes my fork oil as being fork water, lol.
@@catalystreactionsbw It went well thank you. The old oil was gross and smelly. The front doesnt dive and feels more secure. Now that I have this method I will be doing it often.
I've never once seen a fork disassembly vid where the mechanic uses a plastic tool for separating the dust cap. It's so easy to slip or otherwise have an oops with a screwdriver and either scratch the inner leg or mark up the bottom of the outer leg. For $5 you can buy a set of car trim panel tools which are plastic and never worry about having an accident.
Another great how to!! With that much silver in the fork oil, there is no way I let mine go over 5k. All those metal bits can't be good for seals and valves. Thanks Dave!!
Hi Dave, thanks so much for this vid, it was easy to follow and I used it to do an off season fork oil change on my R1 5PW race bike. The seal greasing trick was a nice touch too, managed to improve the stiction on one of the forks that was a bit juddery!
I used the 400 grit sand paper to sanded down the dirt on the forks and now they have a lot of scraches... I don't know if that's really a bad thing. Instead of sand paper use abrasive rubber which is much more gentle with delicate surfaces.
So I just checked a 2020 bike owners manual - their standard procedure indicates fork first oil change at 40k kilometers (read the line twice and could not believe it ) ... so roughly never - not good I guess. Direction column bearing balls check and greasing happens at 10k ... no comment . Thanks Dave for sharing your expertise and making us getting some “esprit critique” ...
It is how I was taught in 1995 when I first started in a suspension shop and have stayed with that. After a few hundred miles the chrome is perfect again. For others it can be crocus cloth, wire wool, 1000 grit emery cloth. Many ways to get an excellent result.
Buy extra oil before you do it fellas! I only bought an extra liter which was not nearly enough to get it proper clean. I would count on using about almost a liter per fork just to get clean stuff coming out(I wouldn't use brake cleaner like some guys do, rubber don't like that stuff).
Thank you, glad you enjoyed it. If the oil change is with low miles on the seals and they are not leaking, the old adage of "if it isn't broken don't fix it" applies. Seals will be replaced every 10k on my bikes for road, every 3 seasons for track. We all have our own preferences, so dust and oil seal changes at your personal interval choices.
when doing fork seals and changing oil is it good practice to back off all adjusters to the softest position first and if I don't are there any bad outcomes
Love your videos! I'll be doing the dump and run every winter now! Greasing the seals for stiction. How long does it last? How often to do it? Can you over do it?
True - that's why you consult the service manual or go to the tech section of that brand and model bike for the needed information. Then you can choose what to do from there based on 100% accurate information.
Thank you Mr. Moss, your insight is invaluable. I read through all the comments and had most of my questions answered, so thanks to your followers. I'm a newbie to motorcycle maintenance and have one more question and that is, supporting the bike when you remove the forks. It looks like you have the bike resting on its exhaust pipes supported by 2x4 lumber. Is that what you've done? I assume that, if that's what you do, it must be OK for the bike. Is that a safe assumption? Thanks again.
Thanks for watching and leveraging the content. You observation is accurate. If the bike had titanium headers we would have held the bike up by engine cases.
I didn’t realise this was so easy!!! I have a 2014 z1000 with preload adjust on top of left fork and compression and rebound on top of right fork. Will this work wit my forks? And do I only do the right for or both sides? Thanks Dave you videos make it so easy to understand suspension!
Great informational video Dave and thanks for posting....I'm about to change the original oil in my 2003 Honda Valkyrie f6 1500C with 34000 miles. Going to use BelRay Motorcycle Oil 99330-B1LW..15W instead of Pro Honda SS8 10W...... thoughts.??? Also, dirt and debris gets past the dust shield and into the seal. An occasional cleaning using plastic film or plastic fork cleaner tool seems to do the trick..
We have used 400 grit since I started in 95. It gets rid of all imperfection and cross hatches a nice smooth surface. If you want a nice finish after 400, go to 800 grit.
Thank you for the video. Is there a related video with guidance on reinstalling the forks in thr triple clamps? Specifically, aligning the rotation of each to ensure the axle aligns properly with the lower part of the fork?
General principles suggest setting the fork height the same above the upper triple clamp. With a used bike and unknown engineering inside, forks may have been modified. Measure from the base of the lower triple clamp to the base of the fork. If there is a couple of millimeters difference, that is not a problem. 4mm or more would require an alingment and ignore the upper measurement.
@@catalystreactionsbw Thanks; you did mention taking a measurement from the top of the triple clamp to the top of the shock prior to removal, so as to reinstall at the same height. But my question was focused on the rotation of each fork within the triple clamp - what's the recommended method for ensuring that the forks aren't twisted out of alignment w each other. Just slide the axle temporarily through the lower end of the forks during the reinstall?
@@rhenriksen If the fork outer tube(s) are twisted, you would need a straight edge to validate that. If they are and you do not get then straightened, then you mark the bow in the fork(s) with a Sharpie pen so the wheel faces further forward. If one is bowed, then you must get it straightened.
I guess using the measurement of the removed oil assumes the last guy did it right and there's been no loss? Is it best to refer to the manual or would that quantity assume a complete (to dry) service? Thanks for the video - I always learn lots.
@@catalystreactionsbw , but the service manual, for my 2007 CBR600RR for example, only gives an oil height reference while the fork is without the spring, so the only way I know how much to pour back in is to try and capture everything that comes out... unless you tell me something otherwise...? right? Thank you!
@@LongDogRacing In that case (as you cannot remove cap, spacer and spring) yes, you capture the volume of oil removed to see what you have. Research online shows 400ml as a minimum or oil height at 100mm. Ride and see how much fork travel you use and mark fork bottom out as a reference. If you bottom out add more preload and compression. If you bottom out again add 25ml per leg and go back to original settings.
@@catalystreactionsbw Thanks Dave. I recovered 350ml from each of the forks (yes, every last drop!), and replaced it with the exact amount. I will ride them and heed your advice. Thank you for all you do!
Very interesting, if you have to do an Oil change on the Fork, I guess you also have to perform an oil change on the rear shock? If not, why? (Dave taught me to play 4 year old kid and ask that) And is there a video or some source of information out there where Dave explains that? Thanks in advance guys, I really appreciate your videos and all the valuable informations that you share.
Hi Dave. Thanks for the video. I have a 2018 KTM 1090 Adventure R with compression and pre-load on one fork cap and rebound and pre-load on the other. 25,000 miles and I am doing the first fork oil change. I dumped out 620 ml from each fork but the manual calls for 715 ml in each leg. Is there a problem with just putting the recommended amount of 715 back into each fork leg? I am fairly certain I drained all the oil out using the method you described. Thanks again for the great video.
Great video. What's the fix if I get 450ml from 1 leg and 420ml from the other? Do I put extra in the leg with 420 or just replace as is. Forks seals are not leaking
Questions Dave. I have a 2012 s1000rr, and the manual says I need to add 602ml of fluid and 90ml of air gap.The manual doesn't say, but is it 602ml and 90 air gap with no parts inside or with all the internals in spring cartridge, etc. Thanks so much for all your video.
@@catalystreactionsbw makes sense, so when the fork goes thru it's travel stroke, the oil "trapped" between the inner/outer rises sufficiently to reach that passage point. Thanks Dave!
Good afternoon. Tell me, is it correct to change the oil in the fork without removing the spring and bushing? What does it threaten? The manual says they should always be removed.
It risks nothing and decreases wear of bushings especially if you let them drain overnight. If you feel you MUST follow the manual, that is quite normal.
Good thought. Best analogy is a shaver with multiple blades. The dust seal is the first blade and that scrapes the surface clean. Sometimes a dust seal has a second blade to continue cleaning. The oil seal has a blade as well. The dust from sanding is therefore cleaned off the chrome surface. The volume of silver in the oil is from the fork spring scraping with every up and down motion.
Hi Dave. Really helpful video thanks. Just in the middle of doing my forks. Only managed to get 510ml out of each fork leg but the manufacturers recommendation is 602ml. What amount should I put back in?
Thank you. Normally you get almost all the oil out and there is a 25cc difference. Always put back in the amount you took out unless you are going to set a very specific oil level.
Only had the bike for 3 months and not been able to ride it much due to current lockdown rules. It’s only done 7000 miles so that’s why I’m changing the oil. Just wondering what to do now. Would the lower oil level make you think that the previous owner has been changing the setup? I’m only 12 stone but had to wind preload fully in to get correct sag. Could this have been a lighter rider wanting a softer spring and greater air gap?
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Hi Dave, regards from Colombia South America. Any time have you used small amount of fresh oil to flush the system before refill? Is it good? Not necessary? Successes! Thanks for share!
There are many ways to do this, the two most popular being kerosene or oil flush. The right thing to do would be a strip clean of every component but very have have that capability.
Dave, thanks for the video! Can you clarify one thing for me? What were you doing at 11:12-11:17 when you turned the cap backwards until you heard the click?
Thanks Dave!, I'll be doing this soon. I have a question about air gap. Does this dump and go assume that the air gap has been set via the amount of oil that's been removed. In other words, putting back the same amount of oil that was removed means the air gap is the same and doesn't need to be set?
Yes if the forks are what is called bash apart. The CBR600RR video has that process in it. If the fork upper tube comes off in your hand, those bushing are captive and you need to buy a new upper. Not expensive. Otherwise a suspension shop "might" have the very special tool needed to attempt to get the bushings out.
What is the video called about air gag/ oil level. I'm having trouble at moment with new cartridges, air gap was 190 from the spec sheet from maxton . I'm bottoming out ,so I've put 20ml more oil more preload and a bit more comp . Now I'm still going to the bottom but got 2mm static sag and 20mm rider ,22mm so way to stiff .I can't work it out .was going to put 50 ml more oil change air gap to 110mm and put back to original settings . I'm a member of your online group so I'd like to watch any videos on oil level . regards Dylan
Hi Dylan. Thanks for supporting what I do via your subscription. 2mm static sag means the spacer is way too long. 20mm is generally a minimum number. Sag at 22mm with 2mm static and you are bottoming means your spring is massively too soft. Oil level at 190 is for race use generally and you do not talk about preload nor compression (where are you in the range?). Before adding oil, we need to know if that is the right direction that will yield a solution. Email me with all this as a copy & paste: dave@davemosstuning.com
Thank you so much for all of your incredible videos Dave. I have a question, if I may. I recently bought an 08 GSX-R750 and I performed this procedure, following your video directions. After refilling, I worked the forks but still wonder "how" concerned do I need to be about air being trapped within the system? How can I be sure that any air is bled out?
Thanks for the kind words! If you exercise the forks as per video and install them immediately, the ail will naturally purge itself as the forks are installed on the bike. If you lay them on the floor, you will introduce air and have to exercise them again.
Very good tutorial Dave. Thank you ! I have a question regarding an extra step that could fit between the drain and the refill of the fork. Would it be considered "overkill" if after we completely drain the fork (as per video instructions) we put back aprox 300ml of fresh oil/fork tube, tighten the fork cap, pump it so that oil gets in the cartidge and drain it again so that every little bit of dirty oil is flushed ? Of course this means that we waste aprox. 600 ml of oil on the complete fork. Is it worth doing this? Thanks.
If your brain says that helps, it helps. Some use kerosene, some use contact cleaner and the list goes on. Getting something cleaner is never overkill.
With the need for oil changes being always urgent, making this video free will create the awareness for changing oil and more importantly, how to do it. This helps my mission of savings lives as well as empowers other riders who are good with tools to help others in their community.
Nice vid dave. Im just stripping, cleaning and rebuilding my zxr forks, every internal component is now bone dry and going back together. When i come to pour in the oil can i purge the air from the system like the way you did in this video ^^ ? Or will i have to operate the rebound rod and do it that way ? Would it also be wise to put a little bit extra oil in each fork to compensate for all the internals being bone dry or just stick with factory recommended ? Thank you
Excellent work!! Pour the oil in and give it a couple of minutes for air bubbles to purge, then draw the damping rod up and down until it starts to draw oil into the cartridge. To that several times until the upstroke is 100% the same resistance in the entire movement.
@@catalystreactionsbw awesome, thanks Dave will do. Could you also quickly explain how the oil viscosity effects the rebound damping ? I have watched your video on oil grade but just cant get my head around it. Cheers
@@karlogrady4907 oil, flows through a given size hole. Thin oil flows faster than thicker oil, so can you find the right viscosity that allows the adjuster to be in the middle of the adjustment range to get the flow correct vs almost closed due to very thin oil.
Do you have to make sure you take out all the preload, rebound, and compression from the fork before removing the cap? Or can you just leave the settings you have?
1. Record all your settings and the "Click, Turns and Faces" video addresses that and how to do it. 2. If you remove the cap, there is a video on that and yes, there is a process that you have to follow. 3. If you are just changing the oil, preload will stay the same and if you use the same brand and viscosity, you turn TEN and COM half a turn left to account for the new oil. .
A 260mm long spring cannot keep its shape when it is compressed over 80-100mm. In deforming, it scrapes on the inside of the fork tube generating very small amounts of silver debris on up and down strokes. The sanding is helpful with reducing stiction - greasing the seals reasonably regularly helps as well (separate video for that).
@@greydog1104 The big deal is the viscosity difference cold to hot especially if you live in a 4 season climate. So, please save your fork oil in a jar and let it settle to see how much metal settles out.
@@greydog1104 Dave Williams, editor, replying here. Oh yeah, huge deal. If you go out and push on your forks (hold the front brake and push hard on your forks to simulate a big bump in the road) your front will bounce like a pogo stick. That's what it's doing through every corner and you don't realize it because you've just adapted to it. Change the oil (service the shock too, a shop will have to do that), then setup the suspension properly and you will weep with joy.
Change the fork oil out to 10w or 15w to the same volume as stock or add a little more oil to use compressed air (air spring) more effectively ua-cam.com/video/EiZY0lcqeR8/v-deo.html
I have non adjustable USD forks, one rebuilt and 'purged' easily, but the other doesn't seem to have that rebound damping at all. Could it be that only one fork leg has that feature ?
@@catalystreactionsbw well my plan was to change at the end of next season (i do about 3500km per season w 3 track days or so) so by end of next year i will have about 6500 - 7000km and 6 track days on the fluid.. was gonna change after that.?
@@DmanGuitar327 You can change with a frequency that makes sense to you. The faster you go the more you depend on the forks, so assess if you have to sustain bar pressure to get the bike to the apex. If you do and rebound is not far away from maximum setting, change quicker.
@@catalystreactionsbw thx dave awesome.. yeah i dont need to maintain bar pressure like that (that i know of) but like youve seen im close to maxxing out preload.. so i think im on a good interval)
I have a set of forks that have bin neglected for years and the fork oil was thick and sludgey can I use a solvent to wash out the fork leg or a thin oil to flush it out. The bike is a Honda mtx 125
@@catalystreactionsbw ATF fluid weight Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF is approx 10wt.Mar 26, 2011 Posted April 19, 2009 ATF and power steering is 10W and so is most hydraulic oil. I prefer Dexron II or III the additives package is very good. I am currently using ATF in my forks (which runs at roughly 10-15W according to BWB) and they work fine for me. Where did you get the 30 wt info?? Thanks
@@user-sp8eb6iz7f If that is the case, you need to check Viscosity index and cSt number for the oil and then compare to Maxima/Motul etc data to see where it fits in. There are many very detailed fork oil viscosity charts that can be found via Google.
Mr. Moss this Tyrone. Im looking to just change my fork oil in my fork tubes. I bought PJ 1 Fork Oil 5WGT extra light from Griffin Motor Sports i want 2 know using method here of emptying out old bad fork oil can i use said method an it gets out all of the old oil so im not messing with any screws in lower portion of fork
I have a question. On my closed cartridge dirt bike forks it says 200 ml inner cartridge and 325ml outer chamber. Using this method would I pour 525ml in the outer chamber and then use the pumping method with the cap screwed in to achieve filling the inner chamber and have the outer at 325ml?
This video lets anyone who thinks this is voodoo go right to it and get it done. Bravo to David Moss. This man has given more and done more for motorcycling enjoyment than any highly paid shops. I hope he knows just how much he is appreciated.
Thank you for taking the time to post and I sincerely appreciate your kind words. Comments like your let me know the content and knowledge provide dis appreciated.
I have been looking for the past 2 hors to find a video that talks about getting rid of the sticky fork seals and you guys answered it. Stiction is the word and I am super excited to try the greasing method. Thank you guys and excellent video!
Thank you very much for the kind words and I am grateful that this video provided all the information that you needed.
This guy is the dieseltechron of sportbikes. Having both a power stroke and sport bikes these guys are as good as gold. Good stuff man appreciate the content and most importantly you explain why you're doing what you're doing and what not to do also.
Bloody brilliant. Exactly what I needed for a quick first fluid change on my forks. Thanks!
did my forks today with your method and wow what a difference and such an easy job. cheers Dave!
Good tutorial.
Call me crazy, but with the amount of glitter in that oil, I'd disassemble it and clean it up proper. It's not rocket science. Oil was dumped out, but that metal was at the bottom, so there's still more inside, likely in the piston/shim stack.
The owner of that bike would be well served to clean the fork tubes as much as his tank or exhaust. 😅
Agreed..... nothing better than a full tear down to know everything is clean and fully fiunctioning.
That’s a fast and clever way to fix stiction. I’m about to replace the oil in my 97 Suzuki RF900s forks. I even have my own custom progressive springs that I upgraded from the stock dual rate! ( also over 24 years old). I’m glad I decided to refresh on this by watching your videos! You’re a great help!
Thank you and glad the video was useful!
As always Dave, comprehensive how to with common sense.👍
ua-cam.com/video/hidhBXFx1XE/v-deo.html
I'll be doing this on my 954 this week. Thanks Dave for making such informative videos to help demystify the black magic that is suspension work.
Thanks for watching! GA tip of my hat to you for getting this done!
Saw this last night before doing mine set. Much easier this way than what service manual stated. Thanks Dave!
Wow! 10 Years ago I had to rebuild my forks every year, because they were leaking. Massive amount of work because I pulled everything apart.
Now I think I know my problem. I didn't pushed the air out of the inner cardrige and stored the forks horizontal till I needed them.
Big thanks to Dave Moss! I wish we had someone with your skill in Germany who's doing the same service to costumers.
Glad that in time you now understand what happened and why so next time, you will get the job 100% right.
@@catalystreactionsbw I've been watching a lot of your Videos the last few days and I do understand more and more of my mistakes I've done over the years.
Honestly thanks Dave, I've always known of you as a legend in the sportbike track community,
This video helped me go from feeling like my leaking fork was the end of the world to just another chance to refresh my bike and bring it back to performing how it should. Especially being a second owner and the bike being at ab 12 mi, where the description describes my fork oil as being fork water, lol.
Thank you for watching and leveraging the content. A tip of my hat to you for getting the job done and reaping the benefits of that work!
I remember doing this every season back late 70- 80s using ATF fluid as fork oil. Work out quite well.
I did my first dump and run thanks to Dave and Dave. 🤓
How did it go and what were the end results?
@@catalystreactionsbw It went well thank you. The old oil was gross and smelly. The front doesnt dive and feels more secure. Now that I have this method I will be doing it often.
Dave is awesome! a real pro in his field. thanks dave for your time and vids.
Great video. Giving the home mechanic confidence to work in his/her own machine.
Thanks 👍
Thank you Mr. Moss. Great hands-on video. Your remote consultations are definitely on my to do list for my two bikes.
I've never once seen a fork disassembly vid where the mechanic uses a plastic tool for separating the dust cap. It's so easy to slip or otherwise have an oops with a screwdriver and either scratch the inner leg or mark up the bottom of the outer leg. For $5 you can buy a set of car trim panel tools which are plastic and never worry about having an accident.
Another great how to!! With that much silver in the fork oil, there is no way I let mine go over 5k. All those metal bits can't be good for seals and valves. Thanks Dave!!
Correct. What came out was... lapping compound.
Great demonstration showing minor fork servicing, l’ve learned a lot already from your expertise.
Great to hear!
Great tutorial! Thanks Dave! You make the job look easy...
Cheers from Neuquén, Argentina!
Aye this video taught me how to fish! Incredible content guys! Thank you!!
Thanks for this!!! I needed your wisdom to finish my own forks! God bless you my friend.
Thanks Dave just what i needed to know for my Showa forks on my CRF250M Motard 😁😁👍👍
Excellent - glad it inspired you to get the job done right.
Simply amazing video, I would pay you good money to do My forks but since I can't I am going to follow this video literally step by step!
Guessing this doesn’t work on a 2016 Multistrada Enduro 1200. Another great vid Dave.
Thank you, Dave! And Dave! I will be working on my forks next weekend.
Excellent - please share what you did and the results!
Dave is the best.
Love you. Ty for your service to society.
Hi Dave, thanks so much for this vid, it was easy to follow and I used it to do an off season fork oil change on my R1 5PW race bike. The seal greasing trick was a nice touch too, managed to improve the stiction on one of the forks that was a bit juddery!
Excellent and thank you for using this video as a reference to get the work completed! A tip of the hat to you :)
You guys are amazing!!! I love this channel. Great knowledge and great delivery 🔥😎
Thanbk you - glad you are enjoying the content!
Excellent video and just in time as I have to do the forks on my trike over the weekend.
I used the 400 grit sand paper to sanded down the dirt on the forks and now they have a lot of scraches... I don't know if that's really a bad thing. Instead of sand paper use abrasive rubber which is much more gentle with delicate surfaces.
The fork dust and oil seal will polish all those marks out very quickly.
I think he used a different grit to after using 400 grit. not sure what it is.. same thing happen to me. I heard 2000 works too. thanks for the tip.
So I just checked a 2020 bike owners manual - their standard procedure indicates fork first oil change at 40k kilometers (read the line twice and could not believe it ) ... so roughly never - not good I guess.
Direction column bearing balls check and greasing happens at 10k ... no comment .
Thanks Dave for sharing your expertise and making
us getting some “esprit critique” ...
Thank you for doing some research to give yourself data points to review.
you make that look easy...I did seals on my FZR, wasn't even close to easy.now that I've put 300 miles on her I realise it needs better springs.
Did you use propane to warm up the seal area first? It helps tremendously.
What an amazingly informative video thank you guys
Priceless. Thank you!
Awesome going to do my speed triple forks 👍🏍
Good job. The video with changing oil in classic forks will be also useful.
Coming up in about a month.
Will wait for a BPF how to. 2015 ZX6R Thanks for sharing I’m watching it anyways.
That will be coming up in about a month.
I love how the accent keeps switching
Shouldn't you use steel wool instead of 400 grit sandpaper on the chrome finish on the forks? I could see from here in michigan you scratched them up.
It is how I was taught in 1995 when I first started in a suspension shop and have stayed with that. After a few hundred miles the chrome is perfect again. For others it can be crocus cloth, wire wool, 1000 grit emery cloth. Many ways to get an excellent result.
Thanks Dave!
Thank you for sharing , really helpfull!
Buy extra oil before you do it fellas! I only bought an extra liter which was not nearly enough to get it proper clean. I would count on using about almost a liter per fork just to get clean stuff coming out(I wouldn't use brake cleaner like some guys do, rubber don't like that stuff).
Excellent how to, will be sharing
I think I would have sprayed some penetrating oil on that rust before sanding it.. and would have tried 600 grit first..
You're the man!
Great work buds
Good intruction video, but i wonder why not change the dust and oil seal att the same time as changing the oil?
Thank you, glad you enjoyed it. If the oil change is with low miles on the seals and they are not leaking, the old adage of "if it isn't broken don't fix it" applies. Seals will be replaced every 10k on my bikes for road, every 3 seasons for track. We all have our own preferences, so dust and oil seal changes at your personal interval choices.
when doing fork seals and changing oil is it good practice to back off all adjusters to the softest position first and if I don't are there any bad outcomes
That is a good idea so you get maximum irculation to eliminate oil. Not doign this just makes the process a couple of minutes longer.
Thank you !!
Love your videos! I'll be doing the dump and run every winter now! Greasing the seals for stiction. How long does it last? How often to do it? Can you over do it?
Yes you can overdo it hence using grease sparingly. I do it in March normally, then check end of July when we are in the meat of Summer in California.
Best...nice job ...tanks...👏👏👏👏
What if the last person put the wrong amount in? You just keep copying the mistake?
True - that's why you consult the service manual or go to the tech section of that brand and model bike for the needed information. Then you can choose what to do from there based on 100% accurate information.
Thank you Mr. Moss, your insight is invaluable. I read through all the comments and had most of my questions answered, so thanks to your followers. I'm a newbie to motorcycle maintenance and have one more question and that is, supporting the bike when you remove the forks. It looks like you have the bike resting on its exhaust pipes supported by 2x4 lumber. Is that what you've done? I assume that, if that's what you do, it must be OK for the bike. Is that a safe assumption? Thanks again.
Thanks for watching and leveraging the content. You observation is accurate. If the bike had titanium headers we would have held the bike up by engine cases.
@@catalystreactionsbw Thanks for your response. I'm setting up a 2006 R6 for the track so I'll be watching a lot.
I didn’t realise this was so easy!!!
I have a 2014 z1000 with preload adjust on top of left fork and compression and rebound on top of right fork. Will this work wit my forks? And do I only do the right for or both sides?
Thanks Dave you videos make it so easy to understand suspension!
Yes, it will work with either leg - same process. With damping in one leg and spring in the other, don't be surprised to see different oil amounts.
Well.. I know what I’m doing this weekend! 😄
Please share your experiences to pay it forward!!!
Great informational video Dave and thanks for posting....I'm about to change the original oil in my 2003 Honda Valkyrie f6 1500C with 34000 miles. Going to use BelRay Motorcycle Oil 99330-B1LW..15W instead of Pro Honda SS8 10W...... thoughts.??? Also, dirt and debris gets past the dust shield and into the seal. An occasional cleaning using plastic film or plastic fork cleaner tool seems to do the trick..
Hi Thomas. Thanks for your kind words. A seal saver type product is superb at what it does. 15w BelRay is an excellent choice!
@@catalystreactionsbw Thank you so much for the fast reply and have a great weekend..! Best Tom
400 grit sounds a bit to harsh for that crome .. would 1200 be an overkill ?
We have used 400 grit since I started in 95. It gets rid of all imperfection and cross hatches a nice smooth surface. If you want a nice finish after 400, go to 800 grit.
Thank you for the video. Is there a related video with guidance on reinstalling the forks in thr triple clamps? Specifically, aligning the rotation of each to ensure the axle aligns properly with the lower part of the fork?
General principles suggest setting the fork height the same above the upper triple clamp. With a used bike and unknown engineering inside, forks may have been modified. Measure from the base of the lower triple clamp to the base of the fork. If there is a couple of millimeters difference, that is not a problem. 4mm or more would require an alingment and ignore the upper measurement.
@@catalystreactionsbw Thanks; you did mention taking a measurement from the top of the triple clamp to the top of the shock prior to removal, so as to reinstall at the same height. But my question was focused on the rotation of each fork within the triple clamp - what's the recommended method for ensuring that the forks aren't twisted out of alignment w each other. Just slide the axle temporarily through the lower end of the forks during the reinstall?
@@rhenriksen If the fork outer tube(s) are twisted, you would need a straight edge to validate that. If they are and you do not get then straightened, then you mark the bow in the fork(s) with a Sharpie pen so the wheel faces further forward. If one is bowed, then you must get it straightened.
Thank you, Dave. Great video! Will this work on my 2014 KTM Adventure 1190 with the electronic adjustable setup?
I guess using the measurement of the removed oil assumes the last guy did it right and there's been no loss? Is it best to refer to the manual or would that quantity assume a complete (to dry) service? Thanks for the video - I always learn lots.
Correct - always check service manual first for known volume, then decide what you want to do.
@@catalystreactionsbw , but the service manual, for my 2007 CBR600RR for example, only gives an oil height reference while the fork is without the spring, so the only way I know how much to pour back in is to try and capture everything that comes out... unless you tell me something otherwise...? right? Thank you!
@@LongDogRacing In that case (as you cannot remove cap, spacer and spring) yes, you capture the volume of oil removed to see what you have. Research online shows 400ml as a minimum or oil height at 100mm. Ride and see how much fork travel you use and mark fork bottom out as a reference. If you bottom out add more preload and compression. If you bottom out again add 25ml per leg and go back to original settings.
@@catalystreactionsbw Thanks Dave. I recovered 350ml from each of the forks (yes, every last drop!), and replaced it with the exact amount. I will ride them and heed your advice. Thank you for all you do!
@@LongDogRacing My pleasure!
Very interesting, if you have to do an Oil change on the Fork, I guess you also have to perform an oil change on the rear shock? If not, why? (Dave taught me to play 4 year old kid and ask that)
And is there a video or some source of information out there where Dave explains that? Thanks in advance guys, I really appreciate your videos and all the valuable informations that you share.
Yes - ask the question! Fork oil change is 2 x shock oil for track, or same time for street. 8k miles, 11k kilometers.
Hi Dave. Thanks for the video. I have a 2018 KTM 1090 Adventure R with compression and pre-load on one fork cap and rebound and pre-load on the other. 25,000 miles and I am doing the first fork oil change. I dumped out 620 ml from each fork but the manual calls for 715 ml in each leg. Is there a problem with just putting the recommended amount of 715 back into each fork leg? I am fairly certain I drained all the oil out using the method you described. Thanks again for the great video.
Hi John. If you pumped the caps to empty the cartridges and drained it for 24 hours and 620ml came out, then I would put 700ml back in.
@@catalystreactionsbw Thanks Dave. Did pump the forks extensively until only a very few drops were present. Did not let it drain for 24 hours though.
@@drjdvm Go with 700ml.
oh the smell of the used front fork oil .. just like the sewer 😆
will it work for a 2015+ R1 with KYB fork? if yes that's on my to-do-list in the next winter 😁
In principle yes.
This is great!
Great video. What's the fix if I get 450ml from 1 leg and 420ml from the other? Do I put extra in the leg with 420 or just replace as is. Forks seals are not leaking
If you are aggressive, 450 would be the volume to go with. More leisurely? Go with 420.
Questions Dave. I have a 2012 s1000rr, and the manual says I need to add 602ml of fluid and 90ml of air gap.The manual doesn't say, but is it 602ml and 90 air gap with no parts inside or with all the internals in spring cartridge, etc. Thanks so much for all your video.
It is with cartridge only inside. Spring and spacers not in the fork.
At 10:30, when you are pouring, aren't you worried the oil is not making it into the inner tube and instead going between the inner/outer tube?
There are holes in the chrome tube to allow the passage of oil between the inner and outer tube, plus you have the oil seal in place.
@@catalystreactionsbw makes sense, so when the fork goes thru it's travel stroke, the oil "trapped" between the inner/outer rises sufficiently to reach that passage point. Thanks Dave!
Good afternoon. Tell me, is it correct to change the oil in the fork without removing the spring and bushing? What does it threaten? The manual says they should always be removed.
It risks nothing and decreases wear of bushings especially if you let them drain overnight. If you feel you MUST follow the manual, that is quite normal.
Couldn’t some of the metal shavings be from him sanding right before? Not super familiar with how the forks work.
Good thought. Best analogy is a shaver with multiple blades. The dust seal is the first blade and that scrapes the surface clean. Sometimes a dust seal has a second blade to continue cleaning. The oil seal has a blade as well. The dust from sanding is therefore cleaned off the chrome surface. The volume of silver in the oil is from the fork spring scraping with every up and down motion.
Hi Dave. Really helpful video thanks. Just in the middle of doing my forks. Only managed to get 510ml out of each fork leg but the manufacturers recommendation is 602ml. What amount should I put back in?
Thank you. Normally you get almost all the oil out and there is a 25cc difference. Always put back in the amount you took out unless you are going to set a very specific oil level.
Thanks for replying so quickly. Just wondering why I wasn’t able to get the majority of the 602ml out? It’s a 2010 S1000rr.
@@chriswood77 Unusual - perhaps someone had changed the oil before you and chose a different volume?
Only had the bike for 3 months and not been able to ride it much due to current lockdown rules. It’s only done 7000 miles so that’s why I’m changing the oil. Just wondering what to do now. Would the lower oil level make you think that the previous owner has been changing the setup? I’m only 12 stone but had to wind preload fully in to get correct sag. Could this have been a lighter rider wanting a softer spring and greater air gap?
Hi Dave, regards from Colombia South America.
Any time have you used small amount of fresh oil to flush the system before refill?
Is it good?
Not necessary?
Successes!
Thanks for share!
There are many ways to do this, the two most popular being kerosene or oil flush. The right thing to do would be a strip clean of every component but very have have that capability.
Dave, thanks for the video! Can you clarify one thing for me? What were you doing at 11:12-11:17 when you turned the cap backwards until you heard the click?
Thank you. Seating the threads correctly so they do not cross or become an issue.
Thanks Dave!, I'll be doing this soon. I have a question about air gap. Does this dump and go assume that the air gap has been set via the amount of oil that's been removed. In other words, putting back the same amount of oil that was removed means the air gap is the same and doesn't need to be set?
That is correct. If you want to assess volume, compare with the service manual to see if you have more or less.
@@catalystreactionsbw thank you very much, I'll do that
Do you have a video for replacement of both bushing inside the fork?
Yes if the forks are what is called bash apart. The CBR600RR video has that process in it. If the fork upper tube comes off in your hand, those bushing are captive and you need to buy a new upper. Not expensive. Otherwise a suspension shop "might" have the very special tool needed to attempt to get the bushings out.
How about closed cartridge dual chambers?
There's a video on those forks for my CRF450X.
What is the video called about air gag/ oil level. I'm having trouble at moment with new cartridges, air gap was 190 from the spec sheet from maxton . I'm bottoming out ,so I've put 20ml more oil more preload and a bit more comp . Now I'm still going to the bottom but got 2mm static sag and 20mm rider ,22mm so way to stiff .I can't work it out .was going to put 50 ml more oil change air gap to 110mm and put back to original settings . I'm a member of your online group so I'd like to watch any videos on oil level . regards Dylan
Hi Dylan. Thanks for supporting what I do via your subscription. 2mm static sag means the spacer is way too long. 20mm is generally a minimum number. Sag at 22mm with 2mm static and you are bottoming means your spring is massively too soft. Oil level at 190 is for race use generally and you do not talk about preload nor compression (where are you in the range?). Before adding oil, we need to know if that is the right direction that will yield a solution. Email me with all this as a copy & paste: dave@davemosstuning.com
@@catalystreactionsbw I've emailed you on davemoss tuning . Thanks 👍
Thank you so much for all of your incredible videos Dave. I have a question, if I may. I recently bought an 08 GSX-R750 and I performed this procedure, following your video directions. After refilling, I worked the forks but still wonder "how" concerned do I need to be about air being trapped within the system? How can I be sure that any air is bled out?
Thanks for the kind words! If you exercise the forks as per video and install them immediately, the ail will naturally purge itself as the forks are installed on the bike. If you lay them on the floor, you will introduce air and have to exercise them again.
@@catalystreactionsbw Thanks for the reply! I really appreciate it. I can't wait until the snow is gone and I can test my work. Thanks again!!
Interesting, so we don’t make rebound or compression softer, just leave those settings?
initially yes just to see how the suspension performs while getting the oil hot - then assess the settings needed.
Hey Master Dave, what brand disposable gloves do you use? Never seen orange, and they seem to hold up really well.
Catch. orange nitrile gloves from company called Adenna
So when do you do a rebuild vs “pump n run”? Thanks
I strip the forks every 3 changes.
Dave Moss Tuning Thank you!
Very good tutorial Dave. Thank you ! I have a question regarding an extra step that could fit between the drain and the refill of the fork. Would it be considered "overkill" if after we completely drain the fork (as per video instructions) we put back aprox 300ml of fresh oil/fork tube, tighten the fork cap, pump it so that oil gets in the cartidge and drain it again so that every little bit of dirty oil is flushed ? Of course this means that we waste aprox. 600 ml of oil on the complete fork. Is it worth doing this? Thanks.
If your brain says that helps, it helps. Some use kerosene, some use contact cleaner and the list goes on. Getting something cleaner is never overkill.
@@catalystreactionsbw thank you for clearing that up for me.
I’m surprised this is available for free.
With the need for oil changes being always urgent, making this video free will create the awareness for changing oil and more importantly, how to do it. This helps my mission of savings lives as well as empowers other riders who are good with tools to help others in their community.
Nice vid dave.
Im just stripping, cleaning and rebuilding my zxr forks, every internal component is now bone dry and going back together.
When i come to pour in the oil can i purge the air from the system like the way you did in this video ^^ ? Or will i have to operate the rebound rod and do it that way ? Would it also be wise to put a little bit extra oil in each fork to compensate for all the internals being bone dry or just stick with factory recommended ?
Thank you
Excellent work!! Pour the oil in and give it a couple of minutes for air bubbles to purge, then draw the damping rod up and down until it starts to draw oil into the cartridge. To that several times until the upstroke is 100% the same resistance in the entire movement.
@@catalystreactionsbw awesome, thanks Dave will do.
Could you also quickly explain how the oil viscosity effects the rebound damping ? I have watched your video on oil grade but just cant get my head around it.
Cheers
@@karlogrady4907 oil, flows through a given size hole. Thin oil flows faster than thicker oil, so can you find the right viscosity that allows the adjuster to be in the middle of the adjustment range to get the flow correct vs almost closed due to very thin oil.
@@catalystreactionsbw thank you 👍🏻
Do you have to make sure you take out all the preload, rebound, and compression from the fork before removing the cap? Or can you just leave the settings you have?
1. Record all your settings and the "Click, Turns and Faces" video addresses that and how to do it. 2. If you remove the cap, there is a video on that and yes, there is a process that you have to follow. 3. If you are just changing the oil, preload will stay the same and if you use the same brand and viscosity, you turn TEN and COM half a turn left to account for the new oil. .
@@catalystreactionsbw thank you so much for the reply Dave! Thank you for sharing your vast knowledge with all of us, it is truly appreciated!
Hello, can I ask how much oil is in the front fork of the GSXR 600 2013, how many ml
what grit of sandpaper are you using to buff out the fork after using 400 grit?
I just use 400 grip and let the dust and oil seals polish the tube. That is how i was taught 25 years ago. You can go with 800 grit for the polish
What causes the grey metal in the oil? Also was the sanding done to remove sticktion?
A 260mm long spring cannot keep its shape when it is compressed over 80-100mm. In deforming, it scrapes on the inside of the fork tube generating very small amounts of silver debris on up and down strokes. The sanding is helpful with reducing stiction - greasing the seals reasonably regularly helps as well (separate video for that).
@@catalystreactionsbw very interesting, hopefully this isn't a big deal for road riding because my fork oil is 10 years old.
@@greydog1104 The big deal is the viscosity difference cold to hot especially if you live in a 4 season climate. So, please save your fork oil in a jar and let it settle to see how much metal settles out.
@@greydog1104 Dave Williams, editor, replying here. Oh yeah, huge deal. If you go out and push on your forks (hold the front brake and push hard on your forks to simulate a big bump in the road) your front will bounce like a pogo stick. That's what it's doing through every corner and you don't realize it because you've just adapted to it. Change the oil (service the shock too, a shop will have to do that), then setup the suspension properly and you will weep with joy.
I'm starting to understand now there is a lot to do maintaining a motorcycle. Thanks for video.
I just got a 2023 Kawasaki z400 abs any adjustment to make the front stiffer I'm 160lbs about 175 with gear
Change the fork oil out to 10w or 15w to the same volume as stock or add a little more oil to use compressed air (air spring) more effectively ua-cam.com/video/EiZY0lcqeR8/v-deo.html
I have non adjustable USD forks, one rebuilt and 'purged' easily, but the other doesn't seem to have that rebound damping at all. Could it be that only one fork leg has that feature ?
Yes, a lot of forks now have rebound in one leg and compression in the other.
How often should for oil be changed for a bike that does.. 3500km per year w 3 track days? I had my forks rebuilt 3000km ish ago w fresh kyb 5w
Rule of thumb for advanced group is 12 track days or 3-5 track days and 2,000+ kms. The viscosity difference is still relatively small at that point.
@@catalystreactionsbw well my plan was to change at the end of next season (i do about 3500km per season w 3 track days or so) so by end of next year i will have about 6500 - 7000km and 6 track days on the fluid.. was gonna change after that.?
@@DmanGuitar327 You can change with a frequency that makes sense to you. The faster you go the more you depend on the forks, so assess if you have to sustain bar pressure to get the bike to the apex. If you do and rebound is not far away from maximum setting, change quicker.
@@catalystreactionsbw thx dave awesome.. yeah i dont need to maintain bar pressure like that (that i know of) but like youve seen im close to maxxing out preload.. so i think im on a good interval)
I have a set of forks that have bin neglected for years and the fork oil was thick and sludgey can I use a solvent to wash out the fork leg or a thin oil to flush it out. The bike is a Honda mtx 125
You can use kerosene, WD40 or parts cleaning solution
Do you have to use expensive sweet smelling "Maxima" types, or will regular hydraulic fluid, or ATF work?
ATF is generally 30w, so if your application can use that correctly, sure.
@@catalystreactionsbw ATF fluid weight
Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF is approx 10wt.Mar 26, 2011
Posted April 19, 2009
ATF and power steering is 10W and so is most hydraulic oil. I prefer Dexron II or III the additives package is very good.
I am currently using ATF in my forks (which runs at roughly 10-15W according to BWB) and they work fine for me.
Where did you get the 30 wt info??
Thanks
@@user-sp8eb6iz7f If that is the case, you need to check Viscosity index and cSt number for the oil and then compare to Maxima/Motul etc data to see where it fits in. There are many very detailed fork oil viscosity charts that can be found via Google.
Mr. Moss this Tyrone. Im looking to just change my fork oil in my fork tubes. I bought PJ 1 Fork Oil 5WGT extra light from Griffin Motor Sports i want 2 know using method here of emptying out old bad fork oil can i use said method an it gets out all of the old oil so im not messing with any screws in lower portion of fork
Yes, just use the process in this video to get the old oil out, measured and new oil in.
I have a question. On my closed cartridge dirt bike forks it says 200 ml inner cartridge and 325ml outer chamber. Using this method would I pour 525ml in the outer chamber and then use the pumping method with the cap screwed in to achieve filling the inner chamber and have the outer at 325ml?
With dual chamber forks, you have to do oil in the inner cartridge first. ua-cam.com/video/HF6ng2axc64/v-deo.html
@@catalystreactionsbw Thanks very much. 😀👍
will this work on the stock kyb adjustable USD forks on my 2001 Honda CR125?
Yes, absolutely. Give them 24 hours to drain if the oil has not been changed in a long time.
Should the preload be removed and rebound/compound valves open?
If you feel that is best, yes.