Is Your Motorcycle Chain Worn Out?
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- Опубліковано 8 лип 2018
- www.DaveMossTuning.com
Given a properly adjusted chain, Dave identifies the 3 symptoms of a worn out chain needing replacement. How quickly these signs manifest depends on the chain quality, your maintenance regimen, and of course, how hard you ride. - Фільми й анімація
Thanks again Dave, just the kind of no-nonsense advice i was looking for to help make this call
Clear and sensible advice without the product placement bull. Thanks Dave.
product placement is in the video without forcing it. thats legit
Why does product placement bother you? It doesn't impact you at all. Why are you so weak?
Dave needs to do more vids like this! Dude is awesome with explanation and speaking
There are literally hundreds of videos on the www.davemosstuning.com website. Add in a huge quantity of articles and podcasts and you have a very valuable resource.
go to hell corona
i been going straight to motorcycle servicing shops and letting them do it, but now and then i have caught them doing dodges... and now im trying to learn myself how to do things..... i never know it was that simple to check if a chain needs replacing - so glad i have come across this video it was so EASY to understand thank you so much
Simple, clear explanation with a lot of information. Thanks.
This is great advice, thanks dave. Keep meaning to see your workshops when they are in Christchurch NZ
Plan on February or March of 2019 as I will be back touring NZ during those months.
I learn a lot from you thank goodness I found this video, I just find out that my chain has been worn out for such a long time, luckily this maintenance staff told me about it and I have to replace it on tomorrow. Thanks a lot sir this knowledge is totally worth to know.
Glad I could help!
I've been debating on changing my chain and sprockets. After watching the video i am absolutely getting them changed. Thanks man
Thank you for watching and posting. Give the chain 400-600 miles before the first readjust!
Awesome information, I often get a difficult time adjusting chain slack, when it's up on the stands it feels ok but when I'm all done tightening everything up, it's slack, I do stick a tool between the chain and sprocket to pull when tightening too.
You should check with your manufacturer whether the chain should be adjusted with the bike on a paddock stand or it's side stand. Also if you see your chain is still slack after you've tightened it up, the most likely explanation I can think of for that is that your chain has tight spots and loose spots. Roll the rear wheel slowly while it's on a paddock stand and then using your hand, check where the chain tension changes as the wheel moves. When it becomes taut, you've found a/the tight spot. That's where you should measure your chain adjustment. But if you've reached that point, you might as well just buy a new chain. Much safer.
Great info as always, thanks Dave!
Very informative Dave! Thanks,I have checked my chains and sprockets ,I subscribed to your channel, thanks again from the Philippines.
Just changed my chain and sprocket, amazing, I'm amazed I'm not dead because my chain was significantly worse than this for weeks of heavy riding
Keep in mind a good bit of this is aimed at the performance oriented, high aspiration rider with deep pockets. A reasonably maintained commuter bike under normal conditions will have a much, much greater margin of tolerance than the strung out literbike track weapon pros find themselves nitpicking over. Dave's info is totally correct but in the context of a weekend riders dresser it really isn't a letter of the law type thing.
@@nicholasmanson8615 funny enough since then i crashed. Not chain related
amazing! I learned some great info today. Thanks Dave!
Thank you for being open to learning!
i love this presentation. thank you for not talking to me like a car salesmen. i dont know why that impresses people (edited for spelling)
Thanks for posting and glad you enjoyed the video. I treat everyone as i would like to be treated and make sure of that in the video.
Replacing your own chain (and sprockets!) is a pretty easy job btw, and satisfying :) Get a workshop manual and have a look, judge if you can do it or not.
its ridiculous what people pay garages to do!
It's like a right of passage.
Hey Dave thanks for the video mate seen heaps of other videos about when to replace a chain but they don't actually tell you what to look out for. Your video on the other hand was bloody fantastic explanation. Cheers mate ride safe
Thanks for taking the time to comment and appreciate that the content accuracy makes the decision more informed!
Well said.
Thanks dave , great info as always.
You put the words together so well and easy to understand.
Thank you - try to make the explanations make sense to as many riders as possible.
Dave, so great to have this channel and get the benefit of your detailed knowledge and experience. Thanks for getting me ready to haul ass on track day!
Haven’t gotten past ads yet, but… i was so happy to see when searching for diagnoses info that Dave Moss has a vid on the possible issue
Very happy to read I have a video that can help you!
Had to rewatch as I noticed the other day my chain was on loose side and I don’t know maintenance history of this older fz1… and I am glad I did as I totally forgot about side to side test ,and the bouncing effect of a worn chain .
Good tips Dave , I've seen a few break and 'wrap-up' over the years , only luck that people weren't injured or dead . Dave NZ
I'm impressed you could kneel down all the time while making that video. I couldn't do it without hurting my knee and foot.
Thanks mate, new to motorbikes and could hear something occasionally rub the tire. Thanks to your video i realised the chain had excessive wear and was the problem. A+ from a newbies perspective
Excellent work in finding the source!
Thanks Dave! Awesome as always!
Correct.!!! When is gone is gone.. Thanks... Great advice... have a great day....
My experience with road bike chains is a bit different. Over the years I've had excellent results from DID O- and X-ring chains and have stuck with them.
I lube every other tank of fuel or when the chain gets wet. I have been using PJ-1 Blue Label on the sealed chains exclusively.
I have yet to go through the cleaning process on any chain that so many use.
The shortest life I've had with these has been 40,000 miles. The last chain I ran from new-to-sold the bike, on my Kawasaki ZX1100E, had 58,000 miles on it and was still in spec.
My standards for chain inspection are first, kinks. If a link tends to stay bent after coming off the sprocket, that's a sign it's done.
I mostly rely on the standard service manual length check, where you apply a weight or other tension to the lower run and measure 20 links of the upper run. The weighting stretches all the slack out of each of those pin/hole combinations. Doing 20 links gains accuracy by checking a greater number of pin/hole wear amounts.
The manual will specify the maximum measurement allowed.
The ZX1100E chain mentioned above was still just barely within the Kawasaki/DID spec and had no kinking whatsoever when I sold the bike (with 106,000 miles and still the second chain). It was running quietly (noise is another sign of worn-out) and smoothly without jumping up and down as it comes off the sprockets (yet another bad sign).
In contrast, when my wife was buying her Suzuki SV650S, I looked at the 5,000 mile chain and it was a rusty, kinky mess. I asked the fellow when last he'd lubed the chain.
His reply was "I didn't know you had to lube a chain."
When we're buying a used bike, we pretty much consider a new chain to be part of the expense of purchase.
Needless to say, an ample supply of PJ-1 Blue Label is always on hand in this garage.
Thank you for sharing all that you have learned and products that you trust to get excellent life out of your chains. To far many riders, a chain is a disposable item, and that is most certainly not the case in 5-10,000 miles due to very poor care.
been wondering whats wrong with my bike. you really helped me figure it out
God damn it need to change my chain, my first manual bike bought it from January I'm using it every day never cleaned up the chain just started 1 months ago, all the tips u showed...my chain have them...thx man
"How many links do you have?"
" *MMMH* "
@Zimmonnea....uh, 17
106 in my Ninja300, well service manual do help a lot, thats the best book i have ever read😂
Straight to the point information 👍
Wow Dave you must be psychic Iv'e been wondering if my chain needs to be replace as I take very good care of it but wasn't sure if it was time// just checked it and it looks like I have about a set of tires or two till I need replacement thanks for your wealth of information (I just unsubscribed and resubscribed so I'm a born again subscriber) thanks for saving me!!!
Thanks for your diligence on your motorcycle and for leveraging the DMT resources.
Great info ad advice . Thank you very much
Best advice.Thankyou.
Thank you l have been waiting for good info like this again thanks
Please share the work you did to inspire others to have a go!
Thanks Dave, great content ;)
so true I had few cheap chains and had to replace them often....I only put OEM chains and sprockets on these days
This is a great bit of wisdom!
Lov u. Ty for your service to society. Keep up the good work.
Good video great information thank you.
Thanks Dave. You da Man.
very straight forward video
What I would like to know/hear is specifically what these symptoms can translate to in terms of failure. In other words, when a chain is like this, does it mean the pins are so worn they're about to snap? Does it mean the chain can derail itself or catch on the frame or other part? Basically, what is the first "danger" or failure mode of a worn chain to look for?
Knowing what kind of failures a worn chain can lead to specifically regarding the type of wear and which occur first can make it easier to understand where the line is drawn in the sand where replacement is necessary. For example, if touching the tire means it's capable of derailing itself, that's a good thing to test for and makes other checks superfluous. We can all be scared and overdo maintenance to the moon and back, but that's not science or engineering, so knowing not just what the symptoms are but what they actually correlate to is crucial.
With side yaw like that, the risk is always downshifting and the chain not staying "straight/in line". It has to be VERY loose to derail, but that is possible. The key for me personally is bing able to pull the chain away from the rear sprocket and see daylight between it and the sprocket. hat shows the chain is moving on the teeth back and forth crated lash and that is not required when leaned over and shifting. The hardest to see is broken/missing bushings over the pin.
@@catalystreactionsbw So that sounds like the situation for track riding, which I know is your focus, but since you don't really bang through gears in turns on the street, what failure mode would be first to occur and what would be the symptom on the street? I'd probably change my chain just from irritation if lash was getting too bad, but it would be good to know if, say, I was riding a borrowed/rented bike to know where the line is drawn where the chain is officially unsafe.
@@nunyabusiness896 i rode my chain until the master link snapped and alot of the chain rollers broke and fell off, rear sprocket had alot of wear and the chain ate into the swing arm some. The chain also caused uneven wear on the tires and when accelerating it made the bike lurch and was kind of unstable at like 100mph. Cornering and stuff was fine. The chain made ALOT of noise though so i just turned my music louder hope this helped
Damnnn that chain is as loose as my ex! 😂
well at least that means /you/ hopefully got some good use out of her!!
@@danielscrittersandcycles2558 I did
Dam your right bud 😆
@@neilblack6356 she isn't bad once you get past the worn part..;)
Thanks for the video! I’m looking to buy my first bike. Do you think you can make a video showing what to to look for when buying a used bike? Just some stuff to help decide if the bike is a good buy or not or even things to help negotiate the price down.
Thanks!
We can certainly create video on what to look for with a used bike. The showroom series we have done does exactly that with a new bike.
Great video thank you.
done is done retired kaput finito lol. So many things you can learn from Mr Dave
Thanks, you're awesome!
Salamat pare sa info
Good vid thanks
If my chain touches the wheel wen you move it to the side does that mean the chains done even if you still got a lot of room to pull your wheel back . Thanks your suspension videos helped me out alot thanks
Loose as in tension? Not necessarily. It can still be worn enough on the bushing that even with correct tension there is enough side play to do that. Reset chain tension correctly as per DMT video and check the side play again.
Good advice 👍
Dam I love your knowledge
The black chain looks nice
Thanks much for this!
Glad it was helpful!
after every track day, dave changes tires, brake discs, chain, oil, plugs and filters. every second track day, he gets a new bike, because the old one is unsafe =)
😂😂😂 the expectations
These are impossible expectations!! I give up!!! 😂 just kidding
😂
Sounds about right
Really great video, will check my chain on my bike(first ever real bike, GSXR K4 750) when I get home. What are the symptoms that the chain is gone while riding?
The #1 feeling is the bike lurching forward immediately after the gear change.
Great advice 👍🇨🇦
Dave: You don't mention measuring chain stretch. Any reason to not trust that assessment?
Thank you for a practical set of assessments I can do in seconds every time I give my chain some love. (Every two tanks of fuel, more often when bushwhacking or rain riding)
None at all. We all have ways to assess the chain, so we are comfortable with reference points we deem as trustworthy :) Great to read of the frequency and ease you have with your chains!
@4:46 Quicklink? That is available for bicycle chains, too. :)
I need a new chain for my MT-09, any recommendations? From EU.
I put a larger and heigher tire than standard on my bike and it has a small clearance for the suspension arm. My question is, if I could put a longer chain than the ordinal one to increase that clearance?
Yes a 2 link longer chain will move the rear wheel back enough.
I use a clip link after I rough the surface and use a 2 part apoxy over it. Never an issue.
Thanks for sharing your preferred method to help others.
Thanks 👍
Hey day what size combination are you running with the Bridgestones? How do you find them?
I run a Driven USA 520 116 link chain and 15 x 48 aluminium sprockets on my 450. I run the 190 rear and 120/70 V01 softs. When the track is 110F or more I run 34 hot on track front and rear. It took 6 hours of testing to work all of the gearing out. I love the stiff sidewall and soft upper compound as the tire has structural rigidity under high cornering loads so I always know where I am. I've won many Championships on these tires and set track records with them in the 450 class. Tire, suspension and geometry took the better part f a season to get right for me.
Cleaning is the main thing and how you do it. I have a ZX12R with over 40k on it and the original 20 year old chain is still very good. I clean every 500-1000km and lube maybe twice between that time and more often if raining. The trick is not just in cleaning but how you do it and how you apply the initial lube after cleaning. The key secret here is KEROSINE. Kerosine is basically an oil and lubricant that doesn't harm any of the components in the chain. But it does vapor off fairly quick. So take a rag and soak it in kerosine almost dripping. Then just pull the chain through the rag dripping till all the old lube and dirt is gone and use the kerosine also for the cleaning of the sprockets. Take a clean rag again with kerosine and wet the chain before the initial lube and apply the lube when the chain is still wet. This will dilude the new lube and it gets past the O rings or X rings easier to the main parts of the chain that is the roller. There is no other real way to lube the roller after manufacturing than doing this. Apply generous amount of lube. Let it sit for half an hour for the kerosine to vapor off so the lube regains it original viscosity and you are ready to ride. You do this and take care of your chain it will last a long time. Good chain also keeps the sprockets in good shape.
So useful
Bought a 2017 BMW f700GS used had 4500 mi. on her. I ride 650mi/wk all highway in Florida, and clean and lube, tension also, every Sunday. At 20K now and think I need replacement. Going with DID. And new sprockets. I'm nervous! lol Never changed a chain. I also get the feeling from you a click link is a BAD choice! "Honey, I need to buy some more tools! " Uh oh... 😜
Are you making these measurements at the chains slackest spot? Also, some people say you have to swap out the sprockets when you do a chain. If my steel sprockets still looks fine do you think that’s really applicable?
At the tight spot of the chain.
But if you just move your wheel back won't that stop the movement? Or is it already gone if you have to adjust your wheel?
You can adjust your wheel to keep adjusting for chain tension, but when a chain shows it is deteriorating, you are adjusting it daily. You don't want it to snap and destroy and engine!
also depends on the kind of chain you get and spokets- O ring chains are internally lubed and sealed, so they last longer. Also depends on the quality of metal used in the chain and sprockets. Conclusion- by quality products and they will last longer. :)
thanks
@dave moss tuning - Wouldn't tightening the chain solved the yaw and general slop issues?
Sure - but is that the right thing to do if a chain is truly worn out?
I always used the mechanical standard of compressing the links then measuring the amount of free slack that can be stretched out of it. In other words the difference from compressed length and extended length. This test is easily done on a concrete floor and is the most accurate method I know of. Look up the manufacturer's specifications. It's measurable and scientific.
Thanks for sharing your method as there are many ways to do any one task.
measurable, scientific, and a hassle. much quicker to do above.
I have noticed that the master link on my chain is not loose/rotating easily like the rest of the chain. I complained to the shop that did it and they said most of them are like that, not their fault. I think they just suck at pressing the link onto the master. Should I make them cut it off and replace it?
If the link is 100% bound up and the rubber o-rings are squished thin as well as bulging compared to the others immediately adjacent to it, you have a very reasonable request in having a new master link installed.
is it worth saying you need to check your chain slack before doing the first two checks as would this not give a wrong reading.
Checking the chain is something I do constantly on my track and race bikes when I clean them. I check the chain on my road bike every couple of weeks or once a month depending on frequency of use. So, it is worth saying that yes.
To be honest ,I wish it will be showned on properly adjusted chain as per specs. As I can do all these things on a new chain sitting loose on sprockets.
Might be wrong though :)
What wasn't mentioned , is to see if tense/slack of the chain remains same by twisting rear wheel by hand on center stand.
Noted on your comments for a more in depth video regarding correct tension and checking the entire chain. This video might be more helpful ua-cam.com/video/SYuXSppaiKM/v-deo.html
Is Vortex chain and sprocket good?? I got a 05 gsxr600 and I'm pretty sure the guy I bought it from got a cheap Amazon chain and threw it on well it clicks and clacks while riding I'm not sure if the adjustment is wrong or if chain is bad I gotta look into it more..
Try the side to side test then see how much distance you can get off the back of the sprocket. All major chain manufacturers today offer excellent products if you go for the mid price item that has o-rings.
1:00 Great video from there
I believe my Chain is done, after testing it as you did yours. I have a 2011 Suzuki GSX 1250FA. What brand of Chain and Sprockets do you recommend to replace my original OEM set?
I went with Sun Star steel sprockets and DID chain.
@@catalystreactionsbw OK, Great!! I'll do the same.
my chain has 75 000km on it. makes some funny noises now. It was a 530 x ring sport bike chian.
lucky guy playing it close. what you have a ducati ?
Dave, how about sticky links? it's ok to WD40 and ride to clean them out?
Sowing machine oil, penetrating oil etc when the chain is hot and let it soak for a while (20-30 minutes). I'll soak a few times and then ride. WD40 is a degreaser, so it is fine to use that on a rag to clean the chain.
Some of those symptoms sound like a chain that is just too loose. How can you tell the difference between a “worn out” chain and one that just needs to be tightened up?
Side to side yaw and pulling the chain off the rear sprocket show it is worn out. If those do not occur, chain is stretched and needs adjusting.
Do i need to replace my sprockets when i get a new chain? they're still pretty good but my chain is starting to air on the side of needing to be replaced.
Always replace with chain good practice to get into
Everyone says to replace them at the same time, but IMO it depends. If your chain was neglected (by a previous owner or perhaps by you before you knew to maintain it), it probably wore out well ahead of the sprockets. If the teeth are all good and almost like new, IMO just changing the chain is probably OK. On the flip side, it's possible your new chain will outlive the old sprockets, but overall I'd still say you'll likely come out ahead financially if the replacement chain doesn't live a full life. It's also easier to just replace a chain than sprockets as the back wheel won't need to come off.
Isn't the pullback trick also checking for sprocket wear?
hey dave your good at this stuff. keep it up and i will be smarter so thanks for that.
You're*
@@jstrndm945 see you're making me smarter already.
wouldnt an ill adjusted tension create a loose chain? creating most of these symptoms?
Even if your chain is adjusted a bit on the loose side, it still shouldnt be able to move sideways like that. Still though: you perform these checks after you've adjusted your chain correctly.
Forgot to mention changing the sprockets as well…they cause wear if not replaced.
Can anyone recommend some quality brands for chain and sprockets for my 07 sv650s. The choices on amazon scare me.
Vortex, Driven USA, Renthal, Sprocket specialists.
Literally just got a new chain and sprocket out on mine and they’re great! here’s the eBay link rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F192801825831
Nice! What’s your opinion on a 520 chain conversion for a liter bike like the RSV4?
I will not put a 520 chain on anything over 600cc. Given the testing we have done, I'd use a 525 on 750+ bikes as they offer much more durability and consistency in handling 150bhp or more.
@@catalystreactionsbw strictly for performance on a race track, does 520 conversion have its benefits?
@@frizenfreeze In removing rotating mass to improve acceleration, yes it does. That is all it does.
@@catalystreactionsbw thank you for the reply sir!
They sell a lot of 520 conversions, promising RACING POWER. That's all it takes to get the wallet out for an uneducated rider.
Hi Dave, I have this problem with the chain and sprocket that I can't find a solution. Lets call the problem a "wobbling sprocket". My motorcycle transmission department has been maintained well and the chain is not nearly there for a change. However, recently after the usual cleaning-lubing process I prepared to adjust the tension. That's when I noticed the sprocket wobbling a bit. In no way is the performance affected in any manner with the wobble. In fact, when I searched the UA-cam for "wobbling sprocket" I found a dozen short clips with no real solution or discussion. It's a dead end for me. Do you think it is something that I should be bothered? P.S. the rims are not bent and the brake rotor is sliding between pads just fine. This wobbling is only on the sprocket side of the motorcycle.
If the wheel is true and the rotor spins fine it cannot be wheel bearings. Check rubber bushings in the cush drive as they may have too much free play in them. Take the sprocket off and lay it on a flat surface. It may have warped.
@@catalystreactionsbw Thanks for your suggestion Dave. I was wondering if the rubber bushing could be the culprit, but I wasn't sure. I will have it checked.
Hey Dave Do you think it worth fitting a 1000cc bike with a chain rated upto 1400cc instead of the standard upto 1000cc chain for a bike ridden by heavy rider or two up?
I will always use stock chain pitch when it coms to 1000cc or bigger bikes. I have never had a problem, but if you ride a pillion and luggage 70% of the time, why not make the upgrade!
@@catalystreactionsbw yeah same pitch just wider plates a d pins.. cheers
Along with those 3 symptoms, is a chain that feels like the links are tight only because it binds on itself needs to be replaced? On the stand my rear wheel hardly spun, I took off the chain and my wheel spin like a champ now so is my chain causing it?
If you removed the chain with that result, yes, the chain is the cause.
I forgot to mention my master clip went flying and now I cant find it to link my chain back on. Now I'm really screwed my master clip went flying when I took it it off, there went my weekend. What can I use for a clip?
@@WILLY52368 They are specifically designed for your brand of chain, so you would need to purchase another link. In the interim, if you have a telescopic magnet (really cheap from Harbor Freight) you can wander like a metal detector and see if it pops on. Had great success with that method.
6-8k on an oring or x ring? Or non sealed chain? I usually follow up the gutteral growl with a bathroom dash!
If you don't clean and check adjustment every 500 miles. I've seen them be replaced in less due to negligence.
Thank you. I feel pretty good then with 17.5k on my r6 oem chain.
@@mordantly Excellent work! The average when well cared for is 30-35k if there is no track duty.
Sprockets at the same time Dave?
I will change chain and sprockets at the same time, even if the sprockets are steel. It gives me peace of mind. With 520 conversions, I have changed rear sprockets a couple of time before the chain has required replacement.
But, wouldn't tightening the chain eliminate all of those symptoms?
If you tightened the chain sufficiently to mitigate the majority of those errors, you would put excessive stress on the output shaft bearing.
Is a vortex chain, considered a" cheap chain"?
Thanx
I have not heard that said about their manufacturing quality.
@@catalystreactionsbw Thank you. Appreciate your time.
Can't most of these be corrected by just tightening the chain?!? So how then can I be sure?
Unfortunately not. If you set chain tension correctly, then review all itemized check points to assess chain wear.
Is this what would cause the engine to jolts throttle at a low gear?
If you have engine movement, #1 is to loosen and retorque all engine bolts. #2 is to put the bike in gear and see how far the rear sprocket moves to check for excessive play. #3 is to check chain tension. Eliminate each one and check again but note that any bike will protest if your rpm's drop too low in any gear so see at what rpm you feel this. It might just be learning on your part if all else is good. .
I guess your chain is loose.. can you please reply me if I'm wrong
How can I tell if my chain doesn't just need an adjustment?
It shows the correct free play when a rider is sat on the bike.
@@catalystreactionsbw you adjust the chain according to the manufacturers recomendations. different from bike to bike and models. there is no standard chain adjustment or method of checking it.
What if you just keep tighting them?
If you simply keep adjusting, the chain will expand and weak points get weaker as well as bushings eventually breaking.