Those 150 academics who refuse to teach at Rhodes university, should be told with an attitude like that, they are no longer welcome to teach at Rhodes university. Those students who cover up murals, should be given their fees back and told to study somewhere else. I can guarantee with just a little bit of spine this would come to an end
Books are being removed from online retailers, movies are being edited, public figures are being denied the right to address audiences at universities...our culture is under assault and sadly we have very few public figures or politicians who are standing up to this suffocating malaise.
So you can't buy these things anywhere no? You are saying you have a right to demand they sell them but they have no right to chose what they sell? Sure that's how it works.
@@ggproductions7078 the whole woke thing is like a modern day cult.. Freedom of speech is more important than these wokeys realise. Look at North Korea. And what it was like in the cold War these millienials have no idea what there Messing with.. Everyone has a god given right to freedom of speech this cancel culture is dangerous and stupid only my opinion
@@seandelap6268 The same week a football ref got heat for saying black in his own language (sounds like the N word) there was the Tyson fight where many rappers came on saying the N word. That was broadcast into millions of homes. Nobody said anything.
I'm an historian, halfway through a PhD, and I find this 'cancelling' of history - whether it be fiction writers, colonialists, statues etc as very dangerous. We're overlaying what's 'distasteful' today onto past societies that were culturally very different. By ignoring/cancelling those people and events we can not be historically rigorous.
You can add CS. Lewis to the list. I posted this quote yesterday and YT manually removed it after about 20mins. We all need to take it to heart. “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth. This very kindness stings with intolerable insult. To be "cured" against one's will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals.” ― C.S. Lewis, God in the Dock: Essays on Theology (Making of Modern Theology)
I've always loved this quote, especially the first half of it. I've had posts removed and clearly shadow banned too over the years for reasons beyond my ken, however this takes the biscuit. YT removing your post of this very eloquent opinion of CS Lewis about oppression of thought and the tyranny of 'well meaning' intolerance smacks of absurdity. It utterly proves it's point.
@@kamiltrzebiatowski9331 The only real option is to cancel the cancelers, at least subscriptions to these bolsheviks and consumer boycotts of their allies and backers. I've migrated 20+ YT subscriptions to other platforms today alone.
The students at the university should be given their marching orders and give their places who want to study. Same goes for the Teachers. People should stop watching twitter, that's all it takes.
As a child reading these books I was totally unaware of the connotations these people read into them now. Reading a childrens book does not make a person rascist.
this whole cancel culture scares me, whatever happened to open honest debate and learning from though those discussions... I mean on Guardian web page I just had my comments removed, because I dared to say I think Gb news is ok and we should embrace not shut down differing views (clearly Guardian can't see the irony in their actions). why is the world so particularly on the left in such singular views on things. It terrifies me I mean ideologically I am very left leaning with my two fav books on politics being out of the wreckage by george mobiot and go big by ed miliband... but that doesnt stop me reading the telegraph and avidly watch gb news (which I love by the way) alongside the guardian and the bbc... as i want as many points of view hitting my cranium as much as possible, so I can make my own mind up... the sadness and irony is many of these supposed liberals who call to cancel other views or change history are actually the 1984 Orwellian overlords and not Winston Smith!!!
Everytime honest people give them the benefit of the doubt they get just that little further. this has been happening for years and years.. like literally decades and now look where we are.
Yes, me too. I work in a left leaning charity and am sometimes wary of what I say. With maintenance paid to my ex wife, it's difficult to know where to draw the line between my morality and not risking my pay.
Yep - spot on here - I'm a liberal 'old school' lefty type and I can't abide this cancel culture stuff - there seems to be a cult like, almost puritanical approach to being 'Woke' it's kinda scary....if you aren't pure enough the mob comes after you. It's nothing more than virtual pitch forks on twitter.
Whilst you make some fine points I am not convinced by the notion that it is only "liberals" that shut down debate or try to "cancel" people, though I am really not sure as to what that actually means. I am pretty sure we can find abuse aplenty for the likes of Corbyn, Abbott, Miliband as you mention him, and plenty of others that may describe themselves of the left. As I have said before, if we are to have this debate at least let us be honest about it, as if the right never calls for defunding of education if they don't agree with it, or BBC, C4 etc etc. If there is to be a civilised conversation it needs to be an honest one, I would be very interested in which thread your comment was removed from and what it actually said as I agee, simply stating you enjoy GBnews does not seem sufficient to warrant that.
I am lucky to have been born in the 1960’s. It must be so confusing and limiting of thought not to mention downright scary to have to be in school/university nowadays. Pie young people are being brainwashed into thinking a singular certain way. You will be cancelled if you deviate from the script. To now be cancelling the dead is beyond ludicrous. Ghandi frees India from the British and Churchill beat hitler and yet a certain section of society want these dead people and their history cancelled as if they didn’t exist!
i never use twatter of farcebook ! they are dangerous places that i could catch idiocy from of which there is no known cure my friend ! regards the caped crusader.
Education is never a waste, so we are told. Sometimes I wonder when you have students at Oxford who take this simplistic cut and paste approach to history. Rhodes for example, never broke the law, he wasn't a criminal. He left all his money to a foundation to help those in need get an education at Oxford. Those individuals in turn have contributed immeasurably to humanity. Including in the area of vaccinations. I'll bet none of them refused their covid jab because it might be indirectly linked to Rhodes.
Deleting on-line content is no different from burning books. In fact, I'd say it's worse. With books, there's more of a chance that libraries will still have copies of the books. If you take down a blog, it's likely that nobody had archived it first. There is a high probability that the information is simply gone forever, and those wanting to revisit the debate and make their own minds up will not be able to consult he source material.
Very impressive how much Rhodes got done,considering his docter gave him the news about the serious medical health issue he got at a young age. Instead of r&r he saw it as a ticking clock ahead of him that said" work,build grow ,both for yourself and everyone around himself" ,not to forget when he walked unarmed into the kraal of Lobengula to the meeting. No wonder the Matabele calls him " The Great Bull".
Yes, Rhodes was a legend! There’s so much nonsense written about him, but he accomplished so much. He was ultimately respected by the Matabele, and they tended his grave in the Matopos Hills for years after his death. Personally, I think he deserves another statue, preferably the same size as the Indian Statue of Unity, erected at Heathrow Airport for everyone to see when they arrive in the UK! 👍🏻
Leo is hilarious watch his stand up routines. Says what most of us think. Should be no rules on comedy and books that are part of our heritage. Surely we are all old enough and ugly enough to tell the difference between a fact or fictional literary work and blatant racist literature.
@@ggproductions7078 I’m not telling you anything. If you can’t differentiate that’s your problem. Never seen a comedian of colour grab a laugh at the expense of another ethnicity? If I don’t like it I switch off or don’t buy a ticket.
It's simple why they do it. Historical figures can't fight back. And the owners of the book removed out of fear. What happened to cancelling the Koran the bible and the tora. I like Andrew all the more for mentioning our beloved Hitch
I have zero sympathy for Nazis. And yet I will still listen to The Ring Cycle. I have zero sympathy for racists. My kids will still read Huckleberry Finn, To Kill A Mockingbird, James and the Giant Peach, Dr. Seuss books, Little House on the Prairie, etc.
SPOILER ALERT - for hose who haven't read "Of Mice and Men", I'm about to give away the ending. What baffles me is that the thing people most object to in that book is the language. What about the fact that it seems to condone the actual murder of a mentally subnormal man? That is one of the most morally awful things I have seen in any book, and yet nobody ever seems to be bothered by it!
The nazis burned books and paintings that are gone forever and tried to rewrite history this is happening again we really need to tackle facist fundamentalism regardless of whatever the people choose to call themselves they affect in the same way.
I think one thing that would help the conversation is a clearer definition of 'being cancelled'. At 3:00, Steve basically says how he views 'cancelling' as actually being forced to remove work rather than just social pressure to remove work whereas Andrew and Leo were saying how they viewed 'cancelling' as including the (supposed) social pressure. I agree more with Steve. If social pressure causes people to reflect on their work, surely that's a good thing? The main issue seems to be judging whether the views of an online forum are representative of the general public (which doesn't seem to be true).
The most absurd literary 'cancellation' I heard of in the last few years is of Laura Ingalls Wilder because in her "Little House on the Prairie" series she (negatively in fact) depicted white characters with negative attitudes towards Native Americans. You can clearly see that the authorial voice disapproves of these characters - most of them are either rejected by the core characters or come to a bad end in some way. In fact, there is a very dramatic sequence in the first book where a Native American breaks into the Ingall's cabin and only Laura (as a small girl) sees him and is terrified. Later Charles Ingalls takes the Native American in, feeds him, dresses his wounds and finds out he is being hunted by a white posse. Charles protects him, only to be later vilified by the white hunters. In the end, the Native American saves Charles' life when he is lost out in a snowstorm. Ingalls does not shrink from portraying racism and other ugliness. She shows it in detail, and her protagonists condemn it.
Too fragile to look at a statue, but want to run the world. It's amazing they have the strength to lift their own head and the mental capacity to tie their shoes
When people don't have a good war, they literally invent reasons to turn against each other when they lack a common enemy. However, it isn't all people who behave this way, but there are a lot who do. Can you imagine the men in the trenches in WW1, or perhaps in the evacuation from the beaches of Dunkirk, bitching about microaggressions?
Been in a war lately have you? Been under fire have you? Seen people die next to you have you? Some of us have and the likes of you suggesting that it's a way of teaching some random lesson? Idiot,
I think what he meant was "these people need to experience real hardship". That would give them a reality check - perhaps then they would realize that being offended is not the same as being bombed or starved to death.
@@sillypuppy5940 And what exactly does that have to do with anything? I have been in that situation and I still find Rhodes to be a white supremist that was responsible for many, many deaths, Enid Blton was racist at the time, the fact the the majority of white people could care less doesn't make it not so. This notion that it was the old days, things were different. Sure you could deny someone service, a job or a home because they weren't white, but lets not find that offensive. You could rape and beat your wife, as long as what you were beating her with was no wider than your thumb and that was progress! I wonder how many of these people wouldn't be up on their feet if it was white people that were suffering from the racist comments. Oh wait, they do already. and anyway, what happened to this free speech they are championing? Is it only when they agree with it?
Are feeling better now Gary? Lecturing into the darkness. 14th army Burma star and the Royal Air Force. But please, I would stop you virtue signalling how morally offended you are at a SARCASTIC COMMENT.
So much the history of slavery has so far been one sided. How about African rulers whose ancestors collaborated with European and Arab slave traders should be following alongside UK & U S in publicly saying sorry as without these african collaborators slave trade probably wouldn't have been possible, particularly to an industrial scale. The ancestors of the African chiefs had helped to raid and kidnap defenceless communities and traded them toEuropeans. Therefore, rather the current woke attempts of cancelling culture or acclaimed here & gone scholars it is greater & purposeful, for the African participants to take responsibility & express remorse, In view of the mere fact that the Americans and Europe have accepted the cruelty of their roles and have considerably apologised. Thus it would be logical, reasonable and humbling if African traditional rulers would accept blame and formally apologise to the descendants of the victims of their collaborative and exploitative slave trade.
Enid Blyton was a beautiful Pro-British children's writer, and I want to own all her books, and add in stuff to make them ten times as "offensive." Please and Thank you.
None of them should be canceled and it's only in the vocal minority and the media that you will hear the cry to cancel. All of those mentioned were just telling it like it is.
Andrew also needs to consider the tens of thousands (or more) who are self-censoring or self-cancelling. I myself was a Primary teacher for 10 years, I was the only male teacher in my school of 20 teachers, and I was an excellent teacher and role model, but I resigned and went back to finance in 2019 as I became just in such a minority in the workplace. There was so much diversity training, safe spaces, words we couldn't use anymore (ladies and gents, boys and girls, disabled) and words we had to start using (gender binary, anti racism, heteronormative, countless pronouns) and of course I was also a Brexit voter who admired Trump so I was on a hiding to nothing. I was forced to leave a profession I excelled at because ironically schools are no longer a safe space for traditional conservative voices.
Love Andrew Doyle he is an excellent host who as far as I can see hasn’t been on telly at all until finally now. Very interesting guests and unheard voices now getting a platform. A couple of over dwells with camera work but really enjoying this channel so far…….
Perhaps someone can help me out here. Steve says at the end "but an artist putting something in a gift shop or whatever - unless it's secretly written on the back 'oh by the way here is what I think' - you're not changing minds, so therefore you're not saving any ... you're not winning any arguments by ruining someone's career. You are just punishing and therefore you stop the debate being held". Is he saying that ruining someone's career who is advocating a position (changing minds in his words) is an acceptable method of winning an argument (the position they are advocating)? So it is punishment because they have not advocated anything in their art. But if they had advocated something (to change minds) it is ok to ruin their career? Ruining someone's career is never a valid method of winning an argument over what they have advocated. But tearing down their ideas by ruining their careers prevents us from talking about their ideas - ideas that are cultural touch points about how reality is organised and categorised, and around which we can relate and understand one another.
What did Mr Kearse want to say about Libya and about glamour girls/feminism/payback? Ironically, he seemed somewhat censored. Always a delight to see/read/hear Andrew Doyle.
As an old git with big hairy ears and red nose I love "Big Ears", I have no problem with him. However "Whitebeard", which I also have is a degenerate name thought up by some spotty, wet behind his unwashed ears, whipper-snapper - a real life Noddy . I object to him being offended on my behalf, I have a brain too!
the bald guy is ridiculous. He's making an argument that has no rational grounds. It's like saying if a young girl kills herself because someone online harasses and abuses trolls her for months it means she just chose to kill herself and it's not his fault :S does he even think about what he's saying?
In the case of Dr. Seuss, it wasn't just his estate that withdrew some books, Ebay took it upon itself to actually stop the sale of said used book. I'd post a link but these are often censored. Instead, search for "Ebay will delist Dr. Seuss books" .
Remember folks , " cancelling " works both ways . An example can be commenting on the "cancellers " of Stop the Hate to advertisers , the people who fund them and their employers . But always be polite
Here is an idea for an entrepreneur, open a shop, perhaps called Xenophobic, where sensible people can buy all those books etc. that have been the subject of cancel culture. From this debate there still seems to be an acceptance here that everybodys views have changed to align with a different up to date outlook. Which is also a kind of cancel culture for true free speech! One man's prejudice is another man's truth. In a free world both views have potential validity.
Tarrantino that well known children's film maker on CBeebies ! - clue, English Heritage that stocks books in gift shops is reviewing stocking some of Blyton's more racist works [she was particularly hateful of travellers].. free speech for some, not for English heritage gift shops eh.
The prices for those Dr. Seuss books skyrocketed, of course, after he was 'canceled.' Since then he has been out of the spotlight and the prices have been slowly subsiding in the places you can buy them. Since "McElligot's Pool" was my favorite Seuss book as a child in the 1970s and I don't remember anything racist about them, I have been watching the prices slowly climb down and I hope to get a copy sometime in the next year. The articles about it also don't say what was racist about it.
This is pathetic. Instead of discussing the beliefs of dead authors you should just let kids and everyone else enjoy the stories. I grew up on Dr Seuss, Enid Blyton etc and I'm not racist, neither are my daughters who also read Enid Blyton. I'm sick of all this digging up of past authors who you don't even know personally. It's time to stop this madness which is being pushed by a bunch of divisive, leftie snowflakes.
Good Dr. Seuss is under scrutiny, those disgusting depictions of cats in hats are offensive and have no place in the modern age. Once I saw him driving a car and holding an umbrella. Foul.
@@cellbiologyshorts9105 As an example of it being promoted and published due to it being anti-white and being conducive to Cultural Marxism? Yes, but with those caveats explained also, instead of it currently being used to further the demonization of western culture and civilization.
I remember buying my first book as a young child Blyton’s 5 go to Mystery Moor and the depictions of Gypsies I thought were a bit much but obviously was not indoctrinated by it it was a lesson to me of not thinking that all things in books are true and moved on banning it would have denied me that
That's how it starts, oh it's not really cancelling it's only such and such we're not necessarily cancelling ... give a finger the beginning of the end
Hmm just a thought But at what point do we acknowledge that all civilisations across the world put down Africans in different degrees of severity. And this positively correlates that when there is an increased population of Africans in any given civilisation troubles and civil unrest increase. Just a thought. I mean none of us are scrambling to go live on Rowanda are we?
In the original Daryl book charlie and the chocolate factory. He said that the ommpa lumpas were captured from Africa and enslaved. Or something like that. Later on it was removed and changed.
Good, God! Three grown-ups not always agreeing with each other, but prepared to respect the other person's point of view. No wonder the neo-left hate this channel so much.
I think GB News is great with an even better team but its sound problems drive me bloody insane. It's the only TV channel I have to watch with the remote in my hand! One person will be speaking then camera cuts to someone else who you can hardly hear so up the volume then camera cuts to someone else and their voice is booming so decrease the volume. Honestly! It's so frustrating but I'll persevere for now!!
The guy on the couch with the ginger beard talks rubbish. If a book is not stocked in booksellers throughout the land and not due to popularity decline then it clearly has been cancelled. He talks rot. Typical leftie leaning comedian. Thank god for Andrew Doyle, forever the diplomat.
Those 150 academics who refuse to teach at Rhodes university, should be told with an attitude like that, they are no longer welcome to teach at Rhodes university. Those students who cover up murals, should be given their fees back and told to study somewhere else. I can guarantee with just a little bit of spine this would come to an end
No dont give fees back just expel them
@anonymous one This!
@anonymous one This!
@anonymous one true, but there will be plenty of people willing to fill those vacancies in the long run
@@ruthcollins5140 yes cancel them. am i right?
Books are being removed from online retailers, movies are being edited, public figures are being denied the right to address audiences at universities...our culture is under assault and sadly we have very few public figures or politicians who are standing up to this suffocating malaise.
Laura Towler of Patriotic Alternative had her bank account shut
climate change and death jabs - no one dare speak out against those narratives
So you can't buy these things anywhere no? You are saying you have a right to demand they sell them but they have no right to chose what they sell? Sure that's how it works.
@@ggproductions7078 the whole woke thing is like a modern day cult.. Freedom of speech is more important than these wokeys realise. Look at North Korea. And what it was like in the cold War these millienials have no idea what there Messing with.. Everyone has a god given right to freedom of speech this cancel culture is dangerous and stupid only my opinion
If not removed, parts are taken out or changed
Andrew Doyle is a great host.
He is, and I say that as someone who disagrees with him on a lot of issues.
Agree 100%! Well done Andrew! 👏👏👏
Yes, but please slow down. Sometimes you start a new sentence before the last one has ended.
You'd think they'd start with cancelling rap music. Strange they missed out cancelling that.
why would they
True the amount of times the n word is used as well you would think would have them all up in arms.
@@Camel.Yellow Use of racist language. Violence towards poor black people. Depicting black people as criminals.
@@seandelap6268 The same week a football ref got heat for saying black in his own language (sounds like the N word) there was the Tyson fight where many rappers came on saying the N word. That was broadcast into millions of homes. Nobody said anything.
@@microaggressionsurvivor2937 A lot of it is quite sexist and degrading to women as well.
Andrew Doyle is the best host on GB news 👏👏👏
Pulling ahead of the rest of the talent is quite a feat.
@@johnmulligan455 It's the lowest form of wit. Immediately below texting in with a silly name.
Andrew is great and Free Speech Nation is the best segment on GB News! 👏👏👏
Excellent work GBNews.
I'm an historian, halfway through a PhD, and I find this 'cancelling' of history - whether it be fiction writers, colonialists, statues etc as very dangerous. We're overlaying what's 'distasteful' today onto past societies that were culturally very different. By ignoring/cancelling those people and events we can not be historically rigorous.
You can add CS. Lewis to the list.
I posted this quote yesterday and YT manually removed it after about 20mins. We all need to take it to heart.
“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth. This very kindness stings with intolerable insult. To be "cured" against one's will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals.”
― C.S. Lewis, God in the Dock: Essays on Theology (Making of Modern Theology)
I've always loved this quote, especially the first half of it. I've had posts removed and clearly shadow banned too over the years for reasons beyond my ken, however this takes the biscuit.
YT removing your post of this very eloquent opinion of CS Lewis about oppression of thought and the tyranny of 'well meaning' intolerance smacks of absurdity. It utterly proves it's point.
They'll cancel Anthony Hopkins next as he played him in Shadowlands.
@@kamiltrzebiatowski9331 The only real option is to cancel the cancelers, at least subscriptions to these bolsheviks and consumer boycotts of their allies and backers. I've migrated 20+ YT subscriptions to other platforms today alone.
What a great quote that is. Thanks for sharing.
The students at the university should be given their marching orders and give their places who want to study. Same goes for the Teachers. People should stop watching twitter, that's all it takes.
As a child reading these books I was totally unaware of the connotations these people read into them now. Reading a childrens book does not make a person rascist.
I still enjoy reading Enid Blyton, but I always look in charity shops for older editions so they are how I remember as a child
this whole cancel culture scares me, whatever happened to open honest debate and learning from though those discussions...
I mean on Guardian web page I just had my comments removed, because I dared to say I think Gb news is ok and we should embrace not shut down differing views (clearly Guardian can't see the irony in their actions).
why is the world so particularly on the left in such singular views on things. It terrifies me
I mean ideologically I am very left leaning with my two fav books on politics being out of the wreckage by george mobiot and go big by ed miliband... but that doesnt stop me reading the telegraph and avidly watch gb news (which I love by the way) alongside the guardian and the bbc... as i want as many points of view hitting my cranium as much as possible, so I can make my own mind up... the sadness and irony is many of these supposed liberals who call to cancel other views or change history are actually the 1984 Orwellian overlords and not Winston Smith!!!
Everytime honest people give them the benefit of the doubt they get just that little further.
this has been happening for years and years.. like literally decades and now look where we are.
Yes, me too. I work in a left leaning charity and am sometimes wary of what I say. With maintenance paid to my ex wife, it's difficult to know where to draw the line between my morality and not risking my pay.
Yep - spot on here - I'm a liberal 'old school' lefty type and I can't abide this cancel culture stuff - there seems to be a cult like, almost puritanical approach to being 'Woke' it's kinda scary....if you aren't pure enough the mob comes after you. It's nothing more than virtual pitch forks on twitter.
Whilst you make some fine points I am not convinced by the notion that it is only "liberals" that shut down debate or try to "cancel" people, though I am really not sure as to what that actually means. I am pretty sure we can find abuse aplenty for the likes of Corbyn, Abbott, Miliband as you mention him, and plenty of others that may describe themselves of the left. As I have said before, if we are to have this debate at least let us be honest about it, as if the right never calls for defunding of education if they don't agree with it, or BBC, C4 etc etc. If there is to be a civilised conversation it needs to be an honest one, I would be very interested in which thread your comment was removed from and what it actually said as I agee, simply stating you enjoy GBnews does not seem sufficient to warrant that.
I am lucky to have been born in the 1960’s. It must be so confusing and limiting of thought not to mention downright scary to have to be in school/university nowadays. Pie young people are being brainwashed into thinking a singular certain way. You will be cancelled if you deviate from the script. To now be cancelling the dead is beyond ludicrous. Ghandi frees India from the British and Churchill beat hitler and yet a certain section of society want these dead people and their history cancelled as if they didn’t exist!
Loving GB News. Keep up the good work everyone !!
I don't use Twitter and don't know why anyone would but why don't grown ups start ignoring it completely.
Sadly it's addictive and it is used by most corporates now and brands. 😥
@@paulmetcalfe6855 Nigeria took the lead in banning it. I wish more nations would do the same.
i never use twatter of farcebook ! they are dangerous places that i could catch idiocy from of which there is no known cure my friend ! regards the caped crusader.
@@brucewayne7838 "twatter" and "farcebook" - good ones!!!
My visits to the Royal Academy and its other sites, English Heritage, etc... will be no more. What a disgusting attitude!
Education is never a waste, so we are told. Sometimes I wonder when you have students at Oxford who take this simplistic cut and paste approach to history. Rhodes for example, never broke the law, he wasn't a criminal. He left all his money to a foundation to help those in need get an education at Oxford. Those individuals in turn have contributed immeasurably to humanity. Including in the area of vaccinations. I'll bet none of them refused their covid jab because it might be indirectly linked to Rhodes.
"Let those without sin cast the first stone"
'People in glass houses should not throw stones"
We need to put a stop to this nonsense pronto, otherwise we'll be back to burning books.
Quite agree, but I think we're already on the verge, may not be books yet, it's our history and heritage.
Deleting on-line content is no different from burning books. In fact, I'd say it's worse. With books, there's more of a chance that libraries will still have copies of the books. If you take down a blog, it's likely that nobody had archived it first. There is a high probability that the information is simply gone forever, and those wanting to revisit the debate and make their own minds up will not be able to consult he source material.
Doing a great job Andy .
Great conversation, on many levels. Thumbs up for GB News!
My goodness, an actual adult debate - really enjoyed this - this is just the content we need on news sites. How progressive! :D
And not a word criticising mohammad
Very impressive how much Rhodes got done,considering his docter gave him the news about the serious medical health issue he got at a young age. Instead of r&r he saw it as a ticking clock ahead of him that said" work,build grow ,both for yourself and everyone around himself" ,not to forget when he walked unarmed into the kraal of Lobengula to the meeting. No wonder the Matabele calls him " The Great Bull".
Yes, Rhodes was a legend! There’s so much nonsense written about him, but he accomplished so much. He was ultimately respected by the Matabele, and they tended his grave in the Matopos Hills for years after his death. Personally, I think he deserves another statue, preferably the same size as the Indian Statue of Unity, erected at Heathrow Airport for everyone to see when they arrive in the UK! 👍🏻
Leo is hilarious watch his stand up routines. Says what most of us think. Should be no rules on comedy and books that are part of our heritage. Surely we are all old enough and ugly enough to tell the difference between a fact or fictional literary work and blatant racist literature.
We aren't though are we, otherwise there wouldn't be any racist talk, or are you telling me there isn't?
@@ggproductions7078 I’m not telling you anything. If you can’t differentiate that’s your problem. Never seen a comedian of colour grab a laugh at the expense of another ethnicity? If I don’t like it I switch off or don’t buy a ticket.
It's simple why they do it. Historical figures can't fight back. And the owners of the book removed out of fear. What happened to cancelling the Koran the bible and the tora. I like Andrew all the more for mentioning our beloved Hitch
I have zero sympathy for Nazis. And yet I will still listen to The Ring Cycle.
I have zero sympathy for racists. My kids will still read Huckleberry Finn, To Kill A Mockingbird, James and the Giant Peach, Dr. Seuss books, Little House on the Prairie, etc.
My daughter read "Of Mice and Men" at school a couple of years ago, she loved it thought it was brilliant.
SPOILER ALERT - for hose who haven't read "Of Mice and Men", I'm about to give away the ending.
What baffles me is that the thing people most object to in that book is the language. What about the fact that it seems to condone the actual murder of a mentally subnormal man? That is one of the most morally awful things I have seen in any book, and yet nobody ever seems to be bothered by it!
The nazis burned books and paintings that are gone forever and tried to rewrite history this is happening again we really need to tackle facist fundamentalism regardless of whatever the people choose to call themselves they affect in the same way.
Twitter was so called quite accurately, because it is a bunch of bird brains keeping it going.
Start stockpiling important cultural works before they get rid of them
I think one thing that would help the conversation is a clearer definition of 'being cancelled'. At 3:00, Steve basically says how he views 'cancelling' as actually being forced to remove work rather than just social pressure to remove work whereas Andrew and Leo were saying how they viewed 'cancelling' as including the (supposed) social pressure. I agree more with Steve. If social pressure causes people to reflect on their work, surely that's a good thing? The main issue seems to be judging whether the views of an online forum are representative of the general public (which doesn't seem to be true).
The most absurd literary 'cancellation' I heard of in the last few years is of Laura Ingalls Wilder because in her "Little House on the Prairie" series she (negatively in fact) depicted white characters with negative attitudes towards Native Americans. You can clearly see that the authorial voice disapproves of these characters - most of them are either rejected by the core characters or come to a bad end in some way. In fact, there is a very dramatic sequence in the first book where a Native American breaks into the Ingall's cabin and only Laura (as a small girl) sees him and is terrified. Later Charles Ingalls takes the Native American in, feeds him, dresses his wounds and finds out he is being hunted by a white posse. Charles protects him, only to be later vilified by the white hunters. In the end, the Native American saves Charles' life when he is lost out in a snowstorm.
Ingalls does not shrink from portraying racism and other ugliness. She shows it in detail, and her protagonists condemn it.
It would be good to have GBNews on the radio ( DAB ) too - just an audio broadcast will be a good alternative to the other talk stations.
Too fragile to look at a statue, but want to run the world. It's amazing they have the strength to lift their own head and the mental capacity to tie their shoes
Why do we expect artists to be good people? :) Question of the decade. :)))
Oh god. It’s just so pathetic 🙄.
My grandad was made a comment 20 yrs ago, which now rings true, “ these bloody people need to learn in a dam war”. 😂.
When people don't have a good war, they literally invent reasons to turn against each other when they lack a common enemy. However, it isn't all people who behave this way, but there are a lot who do. Can you imagine the men in the trenches in WW1, or perhaps in the evacuation from the beaches of Dunkirk, bitching about microaggressions?
Been in a war lately have you? Been under fire have you? Seen people die next to you have you? Some of us have and the likes of you suggesting that it's a way of teaching some random lesson? Idiot,
I think what he meant was "these people need to experience real hardship". That would give them a reality check - perhaps then they would realize that being offended is not the same as being bombed or starved to death.
@@sillypuppy5940 And what exactly does that have to do with anything? I have been in that situation and I still find Rhodes to be a white supremist that was responsible for many, many deaths, Enid Blton was racist at the time, the fact the the majority of white people could care less doesn't make it not so. This notion that it was the old days, things were different. Sure you could deny someone service, a job or a home because they weren't white, but lets not find that offensive. You could rape and beat your wife, as long as what you were beating her with was no wider than your thumb and that was progress! I wonder how many of these people wouldn't be up on their feet if it was white people that were suffering from the racist comments. Oh wait, they do already. and anyway, what happened to this free speech they are championing? Is it only when they agree with it?
Are feeling better now Gary? Lecturing into the darkness.
14th army Burma star and the Royal Air Force. But please, I would stop you virtue signalling how morally offended you are at a SARCASTIC COMMENT.
Control the past and you control the future. A nation without a past is a nation without a future
There should be NO censorship of books etc for adults. We don't need a state-sponsored father figure telling us what they think is unsuitable for us.
So much the history of slavery has so far been one sided. How about African rulers whose ancestors collaborated with European and Arab slave traders should be following alongside UK & U S in publicly saying sorry as without these african collaborators slave trade probably wouldn't have been possible, particularly to an industrial scale.
The ancestors of the African chiefs had helped to raid and kidnap defenceless communities and traded them toEuropeans.
Therefore, rather the current woke attempts of cancelling culture or acclaimed here & gone scholars it is greater & purposeful, for the African participants to take responsibility & express remorse, In view of the mere fact that the Americans and Europe have accepted the cruelty of their roles and have considerably apologised.
Thus it would be logical, reasonable and humbling if African traditional rulers would accept blame and formally apologise to the descendants of the victims of their collaborative and exploitative slave trade.
I was just thinking it would be great if they could get Leo on the show. GB news is nailing this stuff!
I'm glad we are talking about it.
He who has not sinned cast the first stone.
Enid Blyton was a beautiful Pro-British children's writer, and I want to own all her books, and add in stuff to make them ten times as "offensive." Please and Thank you.
Find older editions, the new ones get parts left out or changed
Cancelling =burning books.
Impressive, guys! Thought provoking and a range of view points aired and discussed.
None of them should be canceled and it's only in the vocal minority and the media that you will hear the cry to cancel.
All of those mentioned were just telling it like it is.
Andrew also needs to consider the tens of thousands (or more) who are self-censoring or self-cancelling. I myself was a Primary teacher for 10 years, I was the only male teacher in my school of 20 teachers, and I was an excellent teacher and role model, but I resigned and went back to finance in 2019 as I became just in such a minority in the workplace. There was so much diversity training, safe spaces, words we couldn't use anymore (ladies and gents, boys and girls, disabled) and words we had to start using (gender binary, anti racism, heteronormative, countless pronouns) and of course I was also a Brexit voter who admired Trump so I was on a hiding to nothing. I was forced to leave a profession I excelled at because ironically schools are no longer a safe space for traditional conservative voices.
Love Andrew Doyle he is an excellent host who as far as I can see hasn’t been on telly at all until finally now. Very interesting guests and unheard voices now getting a platform. A couple of over dwells with camera work but really enjoying this channel so far…….
They want to cancel Gandhi? We are through the looking glass!!!
Perhaps someone can help me out here. Steve says at the end "but an artist putting something in a gift shop or whatever - unless it's secretly written on the back 'oh by the way here is what I think' - you're not changing minds, so therefore you're not saving any ... you're not winning any arguments by ruining someone's career. You are just punishing and therefore you stop the debate being held". Is he saying that ruining someone's career who is advocating a position (changing minds in his words) is an acceptable method of winning an argument (the position they are advocating)?
So it is punishment because they have not advocated anything in their art. But if they had advocated something (to change minds) it is ok to ruin their career?
Ruining someone's career is never a valid method of winning an argument over what they have advocated. But tearing down their ideas by ruining their careers prevents us from talking about their ideas - ideas that are cultural touch points about how reality is organised and categorised, and around which we can relate and understand one another.
Well. Once the used book stores open again, I'll be stocking up on lots of 'problem' books.
Me too, to protect them from fools
The irony is that the rhodes estate and company gardens is probably about the safest place on earth
Steve N Allen a voice of sense.
What did Mr Kearse want to say about Libya and about glamour girls/feminism/payback? Ironically, he seemed somewhat censored.
Always a delight to see/read/hear Andrew Doyle.
Can't wait to see GBNews Australia. 😂😂😂
You have Sky news Australia you're good already.
Can we please cancel English Heritage and protect England's heritage.
Great show, I'm beginning to feel proud to be British again. These loony wokers respresent so few, complete nutters and need to live somewhere else.
Its lunacy . it really is . we have to stop letting them get away with it
loving andrew doyle!
Never heard of this guy, as in andrew doyle, he’s really good 👍
Titania McGrath ?
I’m hoping you’ll get Graham Lineham on your program soon.
cecil rhodes would turn in his grave at this madness.
As an old git with big hairy ears and red nose I love "Big Ears", I have no problem with him. However "Whitebeard", which I also have is a degenerate name thought up by some spotty, wet behind his unwashed ears, whipper-snapper - a real life Noddy . I object to him being offended on my behalf, I have a brain too!
Give Leo Kearse his own segment on this channel.
the bald guy is ridiculous. He's making an argument that has no rational grounds. It's like saying if a young girl kills herself because someone online harasses and abuses trolls her for months it means she just chose to kill herself and it's not his fault :S does he even think about what he's saying?
I once joked that they would cancel Gandhi. Somehow it's not so funny when it happens.
In the case of Dr. Seuss, it wasn't just his estate that withdrew some books, Ebay took it upon itself to actually stop the sale of said used book.
I'd post a link but these are often censored. Instead, search for "Ebay will delist Dr. Seuss books" .
It's absolutely ridiculous 🙄
Great job Andrew!!
Remember folks , " cancelling " works both ways . An example can be commenting on the "cancellers " of Stop the Hate to advertisers , the people who fund them and their employers . But always be polite
Here is an idea for an entrepreneur, open a shop, perhaps called Xenophobic, where sensible people can buy all those books etc. that have been the subject of cancel culture. From this debate there still seems to be an acceptance here that everybodys views have changed to align with a different up to date outlook. Which is also a kind of cancel culture for true free speech! One man's prejudice is another man's truth. In a free world both views have potential validity.
They could also sell miniatures of disliked statues
Great watch
Andrew is great.
leo kearse is a cool dude
Are we gona cancel Quintin Tarrantino for how often """the N word""" (to use that ridiculous substitute) is in his films?
Tarrantino that well known children's film maker on CBeebies !
- clue, English Heritage that stocks books in gift shops is reviewing stocking some of Blyton's more racist works [she was particularly hateful of travellers].. free speech for some, not for English heritage gift shops eh.
Great work but I agree about the speed of delivery- please slow down a bit
The prices for those Dr. Seuss books skyrocketed, of course, after he was 'canceled.' Since then he has been out of the spotlight and the prices have been slowly subsiding in the places you can buy them. Since "McElligot's Pool" was my favorite Seuss book as a child in the 1970s and I don't remember anything racist about them, I have been watching the prices slowly climb down and I hope to get a copy sometime in the next year. The articles about it also don't say what was racist about it.
This is pathetic. Instead of discussing the beliefs of dead authors you should just let kids and everyone else enjoy the stories. I grew up on Dr Seuss, Enid Blyton etc and I'm not racist, neither are my daughters who also read Enid Blyton. I'm sick of all this digging up of past authors who you don't even know personally. It's time to stop this madness which is being pushed by a bunch of divisive, leftie snowflakes.
Is GB News available in NI?
It has a NI reporter, it's channel 515 on Sky and also on Freeview.
@@hetrodoxly1203 Should be UK News then?
@@explorer806 And Sky news should be renamed terrestrial news.
@@hetrodoxly1203 Not sure what signal it's sending to NI though. Feels like it's been cancelled.
@@explorer806 BBC?
Good Dr. Seuss is under scrutiny, those disgusting depictions of cats in hats are offensive and have no place in the modern age. Once I saw him driving a car and holding an umbrella. Foul.
We should learn from any bad parts of our history not destroy everything pre 2000.
I found 'To Kill a Mockingbird' very informative tbh. Certainly came out of that with more anti-racist sentiment than I did before.
It was way too much of a polemic book and film though, the types that are all about cancel culture today, were incubated from early works like that.
@@Retro-Future-Land Would you still have it taught?
@@cellbiologyshorts9105 As an example of it being promoted and published due to it being anti-white and being conducive to Cultural Marxism? Yes, but with those caveats explained also, instead of it currently being used to further the demonization of western culture and civilization.
@@Retro-Future-Land Sounds a little like indoctrination?
Was it readily taken up by publishers?
I remember buying my first book as a young child Blyton’s 5 go to Mystery Moor and the depictions of Gypsies I thought were a bit much but obviously was not indoctrinated by it it was a lesson to me of not thinking that all things in books are true and moved on banning it would have denied me that
They started it , now time to start cancelling them
That's how it starts, oh it's not really cancelling it's only such and such we're not necessarily cancelling ... give a finger the beginning of the end
Who wipes out what? That is the question.
Agree about the walk on and grid girls. Damn shame.
I've had comments removed on the foreign owned Talkradio. They're not good for Great Britain.
Hmm just a thought
But at what point do we acknowledge that all civilisations across the world put down Africans in different degrees of severity. And this positively correlates that when there is an increased population of Africans in any given civilisation troubles and civil unrest increase.
Just a thought. I mean none of us are scrambling to go live on Rowanda are we?
In the original Daryl book charlie and the chocolate factory. He said that the ommpa lumpas were captured from Africa and enslaved. Or something like that. Later on it was removed and changed.
Good, God! Three grown-ups not always agreeing with each other, but prepared to respect the other person's point of view. No wonder the neo-left hate this channel so much.
I think GB News is great with an even better team but its sound problems drive me bloody insane. It's the only TV channel I have to watch with the remote in my hand! One person will be speaking then camera cuts to someone else who you can hardly hear so up the volume then camera cuts to someone else and their voice is booming so decrease the volume. Honestly! It's so frustrating but I'll persevere for now!!
Jesus said "He who is without sin cast the first stone."
This is what is missing from the quote that Andrew Doyle was looking for and the comedian's.
God save our foodbanks 🇬🇧
Ooooh the statue msg come to life. Scary!
If they are going to start book burning, can I bring a few along? Das Kapital and one other religious text at least.
200 hundred years ago you would hang and person for nicking a loaf of bread that was now it was ,times have changed ,just remember times changed
Love Dr. Seuss
Enid Blyton and Dr Seuss major authors?
I still enjoy Enid Blyton for light reading, most of my books I bought in charity shops. Some are older than I am
The guy on the couch with the ginger beard talks rubbish. If a book is not stocked in booksellers throughout the land and not due to popularity decline then it clearly has been cancelled. He talks rot. Typical leftie leaning comedian. Thank god for Andrew Doyle, forever the diplomat.
Those who control the past control the present. Those who control the present control the past. 1984