This episode was hard to watch, but holy shit was it an incredible addition to this anime! If you want to see the next episode's reaction right now, check out our Patreon: www.patreon.com/semblanceofsanity
@@vedantgupta2145 they have homefield advantage and canute army is being cocky and arrogant if they played into that and made an ambush or something they could've made them bleed
to me, the most brilliant part of this episode is going from Thorfinn talking about finding the first method, and saying that there is no one in this world who deserves to be hurt... and then cutting immediately to Ketil, and everything he does. because what Thorfinn is saying isn't easy. the idea that nobody deserves to be hurt will never be easy to believe, and this show won't let you rest on your laurels and think that. you need to hold onto this idea anyway, especially when it is hardest to believe. by choosing peace, you choose a path that takes genuinely difficult work. it requires more effort, and greater resolve, than falling into anger and spite. but Thorfinn has proven to us, from day one, that he has unmatched tenacity when he decides to go after something. it's the same stubbornness that kept him trapped in his mistakes as a child. now that he's got that same quality pointed in the right direction... it makes me excited to imagine what he could do. Ketil is a fearful man... he's always been afraid, ever since Sverkel sacrificed the woman Ketil loved all those years ago. Ketil has been insecurely hoarding comforts, like status and resources, ever since. we saw an example of it when he beat that kid who was stealing from him. based on his feelings, Ketil didn't want to do that. and based on his status and position of authority... he didn't have to. but if he wanted the people watching him to believe he still deserved his authority, then he had to do it... to project the right image. he's a coward... he can't choose to do what he really wants, even if his position says that he should have the authority to do anything he wants. and so the frustration builds. and even after he beat that kid, he then goes and cries to Arnheid about what he did, and she knows he's a monster. he has so much more power than she could ever hope for, and he still won't do anything useful with it. his justification is even probably similar to how what happened to Hjalti got justified by the men who did it. to show authority... to prevent a kid from growing into a future problem... an intimidation tactic for everyone watching. and Arnheid's job is to comfort Ketil anyway. I don't think we're really equipped to absorb the full ramifications of what Arnheid knew, until we see this happen to her. until we see Ketil's wife echo the sentiment that, as head of the farm, it is Ketil's responsibility to handle this situation. but even given this horrible thing he's done... harming him will only ever create more fear in him, which always results in more backlash. Ketil always retaliates. he shouldn't have any more excuses to hurt anyone. he should have no more threats to fear. but it's also true that Thorfinn's enslavement has been a lesson in disempowerment. he isn't in control... but in contrast to Ketil, and just like Einar, Arnheid, and Gardar... he's still asking himself what he can do where he is, with what little he has. Thorfinn's ideals may sometimes be impossible to bring into reality. but he still has to hold it in his mind, just so he never loses track of what he's aiming for. failing to reach it is still frustrating, but the ideal remains, so that he can try for it again next time. and forgiving one's self for falling short is key... Thorfinn has spent this whole season learning that he does have a path toward redeeming himself, even after how far he's fallen. I believe the first method is something that will always have to change and evolve, every time you deal with different people and circumstances. but that's why having the determination to keep putting your mind to it is valuable.
I absolutely love your comment 👌 very well put , so basically you are saying that reaching your ideal goal doesn't matter cause you won't reach it anyway , that's why they are called idea-ls ,they only exist in our minds , what matters it that you keep striving for it regardless, yep you are asking yourself to fight a losing battle but you do it anyway cause that's what it means to believe
@@saralaradji6766 true! and the other half is that it's not always doomed to fail either. the more peace you can create with people, the more allies you'll have, and the more trust they'll have in you. it won't get you out of every bad situation... it's not the solution to everything. but you can stack situations in favor of compromise, with enough foresight. and as you practice conflict resolution, you will get better at it, same as any skill. falling short will still be frustrating, but you'll also gain chances to succeed. it isn't all just suffering, and the rewards of this will feel even better because it's something you earned with your effort.
@@kamuyking551 plus even if you fail you probably just inspired a future success by another so it's never technically a failure , welp as long as you get through the constant repetitive frustration part that is 😅 , as long as that frustration doesn't give birth to hopelessness and pessimism or even worse to disappointment with people and the world and then that's just full blown depression, twisted superiority complex and entitlement , and their goes my least favorite type of villains, the type that makes me question my moral integrity cause most of the time they freaking make sense
@@saralaradji6766 I think that's another part of the point in season 2, specifically in the cast of Arnheid. she's a character that lived like a normal woman, and wanted normal things. but she was born into a demographic, and ended up in a position, where nobody would listen to her, even when she knew better. and she fell further and further into disempowerment over the course of her life, losing her husband, her son, her freedom, and eventually being used by Ketil as emotional support for his own bad choices. she literally had to watch a man wield power irresponsibly and then complain about it, even though she knows there are better things to do with it. but that's just the thing with Arnheid... she became so hopeless because she didn't have the power to change anything. she couldn't lash out in her frustration... she couldn't even choose to protect what mattered most to her. she tried as hard as she could to save Gardar, she did as much as she was able, and it still wasn't enough to save them. compare that to Ketil, who did have power, and did sow destruction in his frustration. he was so insecure about holding and keeping power, that he failed to use it constructively. compare that to Thorfinn and Einar, who were granted no power by any outside authority. they might not have been able to save Arnheid, but were still able to stop Canute from taking over the farm. compare that to Canute, who felt like he was trapped in a course of action that would make him a lot of enemies, until Thorfinn asked him to stop, and he realized that he actually could. Canute could've been that villain, who has the power to change things on a massive scale, and makes the decision to use it destructively... but Ketil is a cautionary tale about the harm that a person can do when they put more energy into anxiously keeping and maintaining power than actually using it to do what they want to do. and Arnheid is an example of the kind of determination that you can have when you really love and want something, even when your lack of power almost guarantees your failure. and Thorfinn and Einar are somewhere in the middle, trying to save Gardar, failing at that, trying to save Arnheid, watching her die, getting angry at Ketil, but choosing to end the cycle of violence with themselves, and instead of harming Ketil, honoring the memory of someone they loved by continuing to be the people that she loved too, and succeeding at a goal that honors her memory more than violence ever could. but I think the thing that convinced Canute, more than anything, was the idea that he isn't alone. power often leaves a person at the top of a hierarchy with an overwhelming sense of solitude in their responsibilities. and Canute feels like he's made enemies, which gives him a constant sense of anxiety. but Thorfinn was never there to hurt him. and, as well, Canute was never really the victim. Einar's presence during their conversation emphasizes who Canute has hurt in terms of everyday people caught in the crossfire of his goals, what those people have a right to feel, and what a tall ask it is to hope that they'll just walk away. and then Thorfinn and Einar walk away anyway, because Canute is not their enemy. or at least, he doesn't have to be. his decisions matter in this too... he needs to meet them where they are. and he has every reason to. it will lighten the burden on himself as well. it's never too late to change. it's never too late to start trying to sow kindness, and with enough effort, you may still reap the benefits of whatever good you've done. that makes as much sense to me as anything.
Snake approached the whole beating situation very smart. He said that Ketil had every right to beat Arnheid but he would loose his property. Ketil was totally lost that moment but he definitely didn’t want to give himself any more openings. So Snake telling him what he did was right but it would be even smarter to stop so he can keep her was actually the best way to save Arnheid. Questioning the morality of this would have made Ketil just continue. This man seemed nice in the beginning because he treated Einar and Thorfinn nice and seemingly the other slaves as well. But why did he do that? Because he can’t face conflict. We see that he isn’t good at this with his sons and it eats at him as he has to face the kids who stole from him as well. As soon as something doesn’t go the way he is used to it builds up too much pressure. That man never learned how to work with negative emotions and never built up a healthy resilience. Him being nice to his slaves was just a way to avoid conflict with them because he wouldn’t be able to handle a bad situation. The moment with Arnheid really showed it. He’s a perfect example of a human who never learned how to deal with hardships. They go crazy (and let it out onothers) or they take their own lives.
I think you're totally correct... and it all links together when you consider what Sverkel said to Arnheid. a long time ago, Sverkel allowed the woman Ketil loved to be taken away, because he wanted to avoid further conflict. in that moment, the point of their conversation is to let you compare Sverkel's decision to give in, with Gardar's decision to fight. both ended tragically, and the point is that disempowered people may not have any control, even when they try their best. but this is also why Ketil becomes obsessed with obtaining and maintaining power. he doesn't want to be disempowered or lack control, because vulnerability is scary. but all throughout the first season, we were shown the hypocrisy of hurting people because you were hurt. revenge is just creating more of the exact pain that has made you feel so horrible... and it creates more of the same anger. this is a more complex version of that. you can understand Ketil's urge to insulate himself. but he's also putting his own wants and needs above everyone else's. consequently, he may become the villain in other people's tales of being disempowered and downtrodden. and while Ketil attempts to mitigate this by being nicer than he is required to be... he is still the obstacle between them and their freedom.
@@kamuyking551 I admit I was a bit unsure of what to think about Ketils backstory since it is anime only. But as we have seen already in the prologue the show really makes only very slight changes or adds something (like Leif visiting Thorfinnin jail) and if they do it adds to it. Tying Ketils lack of social resilience with such a backstory was actually a smart thing to do. They really foreshadowed a lot here if you were willing to think about how such an experience can change someone. You explained that perfectly. Taking your hurt out on others creates just more hurt. It is an endless cycle. And VS continues to show this later on again and again. Facing the consequences and feelings you had back then is so hard but you need to work through it and make peace with it or you will drag others down with you.
@@PentragonCosplay I honestly never would've guessed that Ketil's backstory was anime only! it's such a good addition to his character, I'm so glad they did, because it's equal parts sympathetic and frustrating. what happened to Ketil was awful, and shouldn't happen to anyone... but if Ketil has gone through something like that already, then he should know how horrible it is to put others through that or worse. it actually makes the situation with Arnheid all the more frustrating, because Ketil could've related to her and sympathized with her the whole time. they both lost a partner to circumstances outside of their control, and it wasn't fair. but instead we see Ketil get so immobilized by fear of other people's scrutiny, that he can't even use his power as the head of the farm to do what he really wants to do. like, in the case with those kids who stole from him? he didn't want to punish them at all. but other people had expectations that he didn't feel like he could fail to fulfill. so he chose to punish them anyway, and then went and cried to Arnheid. Arnheid who has never in her life been granted power by anyone, and has suffered the consequences of having no sway over her life's trajectory. now here's a man who does have power, and he won't even take the risk of using it for something he wants. and she has to sooth his mounting frustration over that. and on top of that, Ketil's justification for why he had to punish that kid is probably similar to the kind of reasoning that led to the loss of Hjalti. gotta get 'em while they're young... nip it in the bud, before they grow up and you have a real problem on your hands. and Arnheid just had to sit there, listening to that, and comforting Ketil over a choice he made for himself. and considering everything that Arnheid did to try and save Gardar, despite her lack of power or authority... she's so much braver than Ketil.
Seeing Ketil’s change from back when he couldn’t bear to flog those children to now him beating Arnheid, the one he claims to love, nearly to death with a club is insane.
Ketil's character(arc) is so cleverly written. All this time we've been lead to believe that he was a kind man, but when push comes to shove the truth is that he's a weak man.
10:50 I love the detail of Ketil's sword being an "ULFBERHT". He is a very wealthy man so it makes sense that he could afford one. Even if he never used it, just having it would lend legitimacy to his manufactured warrior legend.
A little late but from what I've read about the ULFBERHT swords, the one Ketil has is actually a counterfeit one and not a legitimate one (based on the engravings). And that really fits with how he is a fake/counterfeit warrior since even the weapons he uses are counterfeit ones
I actually think Ketil genuinely thought he was being good to Arnheid. And what reinforced it was how Arnheid prolly never said no to Ketil, as she can't really say no as a slave. And Ketil failed to realize that even if she never said no, it's not something she actually wants. I feel like he fell into this rabbit hole of having the wrong idea about their relationship. Like, sir you're her owner. She'll do as she's told. But don't think for a second it's of her own volition. In other words, Ketil probably thought Arnheid genuinely likes him. That's why he felt so betrayed. Although I think that's merely the tipping point. All that drama with Canute was constantly building up frustration in him, and finding out Arnheid's attempted escape was what pushed him over the edge. All this frustration funneled down to pure rage and violence.
I was bracing myself for the pain and just steeling my heart and Jacob comes at me with the "Sir, this is a Wendy's ...?" 🤣🤣🤣 It caught me so off guard I literally chocked!
That's why you shouldn't divide people into "bad" and "good" people. We have limited processing power, so we tend to simplify our view of other individuals. But it's important to never forget that such classification is not reality, it's our simplified perception of it. Just like there are no "bad cars" that break and kill people, and "good cars" that listen to their drivers. There can be design flaws, some parts can wear down, and often it's just bad luck that leads to car accidents. If you take care of the car and regularly check up on it, then it will generally function well. If you label a car as "bad" and judge it because it killed your father, and want to take revenge on it, that won't get you anywhere. It's the same with people. Labeling Ketil as "monster" will not lead you anywhere. Only understanding the mechanism behind his actions, and then taking necessary precautions at the appropriate time in order to not let him develop this delusional attachment is what actually solves the problem. Blaming him for being a terrible human, trying to kill him or get revenge on him won't fix anything, it's throwing punches after losing the fight.
There was a lot of forshadowing for Ketil's toxic relation with Arnheid, him being so attached to her, him not giving her the option of freedom like he did to Thorfinn and Einar, it was all there. he always was. Ketil was good to Thorfinn and Einar but it doesn't mean he is good person.
Agreed. And him being bad to Arnheid doesn't make him a bad person. He's just a person, with all the good and bad that that implies. The exploration of that is what makes this show so great.
@@Someone-101magine cumulative of bad situations pile up in a short amount of time and everything that you owned will be taken over by someone. I wouldn't be mad as kettil but I understand why he do that. He's not a bad person, but not a saint either. Just a human that pushed over the edge...
HE IS ABUSING A WOMAN DENIES HER HER FREEDOM BEATS HER TO DEATH WHEN SHE TRIES TO GET HER LIFE BACK... he isn't a good man that did a bad thing because circumstances. He's always seen Arnheid as an object to possess.
Ketil is such an interesting character. He's not really a good person considering he still support slavery, but he can show to be kind enough compared to other slave owners, wishing to live a peaceful and quiet life with no stress and enemies. People that say he was secretely violent and ruthless are simply mistaken, he might have a darker side deep down, but the man is weak willed and afraid, not for anything he relied on Arnheid as confort to open up, since he was afraid of everybody judgmement and even of his own image. Alas everything that transpired with Canute made him snap and reawakened his trauma of having lost already what was more precious to him (his old love) and with everything crumbling, he became completely delusional and took the mask of "Iron Fist Ketil" seriously and truly became a foolish idiot who think to be better than anyone.
Saying that supporting slavery in the medieval nordic society prevents you from being good is a bit of a stretch isn't it? It's like someone in 2523 said that you can't really be a good person if you eat meat. Supporting things the society in which you were born and raised consider as normal doesn't make you good or evil.
You guys gotta remember that the farmers haven’t yet been told that the enemies are Canute and the Jomsvikings, they’ve just been told that enemies are coming to take their farm. So when they chant “might makes right!” they actually think they could have the greater ‘might’ in this situation. It is just Ketil who is deluded enough to think they have a chance against actual Jomsvikings. Thorgell is even aware that they will all die despite how gung-ho he is about the skirmish.
@@Stonewielder I believe Canute being the enemy is mentioned to them for the first time in Ketils speech like seconds before they chant, but the key piece of info left out is the Jomsvikings. If you just hear “King Canute wants to take our farm” it’s easier for random farmers to think “he is sending some of his men to requisition our farm” rather then knowing specifically “the King is personally coming with the best warrior clan in the world to requisition our farm”. What Canute is doing here is complete overkill and most leaders in his position would have just sent some basic troops to requisition this farm that has almost no defenses. The details of this skirmish and how deadly their enemy is was conveniently glossed over by those rallying the farmers for battle.
@@masonterhorst That may be so, but at this this point not Ketil, not Thorgil, not a single person there knows the Jomsvikings are headed their way. So it's not like Ketil or anyone else was withholding that information from them.
@@Stonewielder maybe I assumed that Thorgil shared this information with Ketil, which is fair, maybe he didn’t. I’m pretty certain that Thorgil, who was a part of Canutes personal guard and travelled there with the Jomsvikings and Canute originally, knew that that is who was with Canute and also Thorgil clearly assumed that Canute was coming himself with his warriors. Because *spoiler* Thorgil literally prepares to assassinate Canute or die in battle with the Jomsvikings. He seems to be completely aware of what is coming given how excited he is for the glory of this battle and the way he prepares for it. So maybe just Thorgil withheld his knowledge of how deadly this would be.
@@masonterhorst Thorgil wasn't privy to the plans to take farms, at least not until the events which lead to their escape with Leif. At that point he now knew his enemy was Canute and could make a knowledgeable guess as to the forces Canute would send to the farm but he couldn't be certain he would bring the Jomsvikings or even that Canute himself would come in person. It would have been an assumption on his part.
In a fight between a small, well-trained army against a larger group of motivated farmers, who would emerge victorious? Don't miss the answer in the next chapters.
Its so nice to finally watch some reactors that full on call out Ketil for his actions, including the ones prior to this episode. A LOT of people are saying he did nothing wrong and had done nothing wrong before this episode. But that is simply not true. Arnheid was his SLAVE, and like the bros pointed out in the discussion, he treated her like one. Einar and Thorfinn where not really treated like slaves by Ketil. Yes, he ordered them around, but he treated them more or less the same he treated the free men that worked for him on the farm. Also, I am so glad they also point out that Ketil was taking advantage of Arneheid and the "snu snu" was NOT consensual in any way. Arnheid had no choice because she was a slave! Ketil could do it anyways and there would be nothing to protect Arnheid from him because it was his right as her master to do with her as he pleased(Slavery is so messed up...). On top of that he could also punish her for resisting, as that was also his right as her master(And it was expeted of a master to punish a dissobedient slave in those times, and as we saw in episode 7, Ketil can be pressuered). So all she could do was let it happen and just try not to make the situation worse for herself. ( I just feel so bad for her) And on the topic of her and the kid she got with Ketil...... imma make it short: She knew that she eventually would get pregnant and decided to make the best of the situation(That is literraly the only agency she has in her life). She had been a mother before and therefor hoped that if she got a child it could bring some joy into her world again. As we learn later, the only joy she had on the farm was at the well with Einar and Thorfinn. It really all boils down to this simple question: If Arnheid was free, would she have wanted to sleep with Ketil and carry his child? The answer: F*ck no! How anyone is unable see this I dont understand. I feel this discussion is gonna show up so imma just throw in my two cents:) Yes, many other charecters in the show has done far worse than what Ketil has done, even with this episode in mind. But those charecters, like Askeladd are more likable because they have/had a greater goal in mind and they werent blind to their own actions. They also didnt do things out of pure selfishness(S1 Thorfinn is the odd man out when it comes to the cast of charecter in this regard). They werent/arent good and dont try to come across as pure people. They arent and they know that. At least thats why i think most people who watch this show like Canute and Askeladd as charecters so much. At the very least its why I like them more than I like Ketil. Ketil only does things for himself. He only ever really thinks of himself and his own needs and wants(for lack of better words). He is incredible selfish and weak. I think that is why so many people have very strong negative feelings regarding the charecter compared to say, Askeladd. Sorry for any gramma mistakes, English isnt exactly something I am an expert at:)
Ketil's character(arc) is so cleverly written. All this time we've been lead to believe that he was a kind man, but when push comes to shove the truth is that he's a weak man... And there's been a few (not many) hints about this troughout the season.
Beating up a woman, even if she's his slave, seems to make any man a villain, it's something that makes everything "black or white" very easy. I see few talk about the manipulative wife, who used the right words to convince the weakened husband, in a panic attack, to attack his slave, which she, the wife, hates so much. It seems clear to me that she intended for Ketil to overdo the beating and kill the poor slave. I really don't think he's ever executed so much punishment against Arnheid. She has never been shown injured thus far in the narrative, even though years have passed in this arc.(**The only time the slave was attacked until here was a big slap in the face, given precisely by the wife.) To put Ketil on the bad team only after this episode is to deny that he was already on the bad team from the beginning, and gained attention for being the least bit kind and avoiding the stereotyped villainous figure. For me, he is an excellent character with enough depth to make you think about different subjects, just like Askelad. Poor f****r is just so done he doesn't knows what to do but go on a rampage.That's exactly how many men are today: the high taxes, the government stealing some of their hard-earned work, responsibility for the family, misfit children... We are charged with an almost magical ancestral strength to support all of this
I agree. He is a top 5 character in terms of writing. If I had to make a list of the most well written characters... It would go. 1. Thorfinn 2. Arnheid 3. Askeladd 4. Canute 5. Ketil
Yea, while I can see why he snapped the way he did. Taking it out on the woman, he kept saying he was in love with just shows how little he actually cared about her. She was just another thing he couldn't stand losing.
I mean, what he did is terrible and he deserves to die for that, but characters like Askeladd and Thorfinn made way worse things and almost everyone love them. Askeladd caused the death, suffering, rape, torture, slavery of hundreds, maybe thousands of people, including children, Ketil made an unforgivable thing, but to only one person.
@@User_Unknown86By that logic, wouldn't Thorfinn also be a monster, afterall SPOILER when he learned Floki is the one responsible for his father death, he immediatly switched to ruthless killer and stopped only because Floki's grandson calmed him down.
@@soul6733dude I can’t stand you if you can’t tell the difference between wanting to kill a Viking douche bag who orchestrated your fathers death or a defenseless woman slave you use and abuse
Ketil's generosity and even-handedness has always been possible because he's in control of his surroundings. Even when he has to play the part like with the boy thief, he's still the uncontested leader of all he surveys. He's rich! But the best possible slave master is still a slave master.
The way Pater brought up Leif buying Arnheid and Einar, away from the guards, alone, carefully... Pater was a slave before he became a retainer, and I don't doubt that he had seen Ketil become unreasonably violent towards a slave or other person Ketil had power over, possibly even Pater himself.
I don't think so. From what we saw, Ketil is too weak mentally to normally act that violent. He's a man who is quite litterally scared of his own shadow.
I have quite a lot of compassion for Ketil. Sometimes I wonder why people judge him so harshly but don't do the same with Askeladd, Canute or even Thorfinn.
I think they just a bit biased to them. I share your compassion to ketil, but i do understand people's hatred. Of course it would be fair to judge askeladd and canute more harshly, but after all judgement and justice is concept created from human's feelings. It's not matter of objective analysis, but emotions and emotional preferences. Ketil is just less charismatic to most people and therefore less preferable
The depiction of how Ketil snaps, because he knows he is going to lose everything, and if you look at it, he himself never did anything that appears wrong. He told Arneid when they first showed the two of them "you are the only one i can be myself with". He loved her and felt all of it was betrayed, and with the stress of the king coming for him, he was trying to grasp his only happiness in his world to find it had betrayed him. What i love about the show is that even how he reacted was so real and believable. Just beautiful story telling, and props to snake for understanding all of it and intervening so perfectly.
not sure if you are saying you don't think he did anything wrong be myself with.. only because she would be punished if she repeated anything, she couldn't refuse him but his delusional mind blocked out the fact he was rapping her and had been for years, no chance of freedom just keeping her as a prisoner it wasn't a real relationship so no not really betrayal he didn't even give her chance to explain he just took all his anger out on her because he could
There's one thing he definitely did wrong: he forced himself onto Arnheid even though she didn't love him back. He admittedly gave her life better than an average slave would have, but he believed it entitles him to her loyalty. He only felt betrayed because he felt entitled first.
It's all part of Ketil's weakness as a character, that he could only 'be himself' with someone he controlled absolutely. When that control was threatened...
@@adamlatosinski5475bro if Arnheid stated that she doesn't live him bc she is forever loyal to her husband in the first place before he became so co-dependent with her - it would all be fine. This man was too much of a coward to hurt a thief stealing from him, he doesn't have the balls to actually rape a woman.
I can understand why he's acting this way after everything that's happened so far. He still shouldn't take it out on the women he supposedly in love with....Scummy move.
I'm just saying..... As Nasty of a Behavior that Ketil has here.... It still does not compare to the amount of suffering that Thorfinn inflicted during his Viking years. Just in case there's someone out there who thinks he deserves to die more than Thorfinn does. I'm not defending his actions.... I'm just trying to put things into perspective.
Its true this was how ketil snapped everything in his life is slipping thru his hands, they did show that he did lose his first love so some of that is there
These two never cease to amaze they really think a couple farmer could land a hit letalone kill a jomsviking even snake and thorfinn would struggle against two
Thorfinn and Snake would not struggle against two(we literally see Snake kill the two that were about to kill his fat friend i dont recall the name in the blink of an eye) but I do see your point. My point is while normal soldiers let alone normal people aren't a match for them, Jomsvikings aren't built the same and some of them are way above their fellow vikings.
@@leandrodiaz5433 anybody will die if he gets jumped by high trained soldiers no matter how strong thorfinn is he might kill a few but at the end they will kill him but in 1v1 its different
FOR THOSE BLINDED BY HATE: The script sneakily backs us up against the wall again. The idea of identifying an injustice and defending the wronged sounds good, it's the wronged revolution in its prime! But if the scope is changed, revolutionary hypocrisy loses its foundations. With Gadar it's not difficult to defend his life for being a slave, in our eyes it seems fair to defend him over random bodyguards named after animals. Gardar has suffered all sorts of injustices, and we defend him in the understanding that he is suffering a "greater injustice" in front of the guards he killed. But when it comes to defending Ketil... why is it so hard to ignore a single suffering slave, if it's for the sake of the ENTIRE farm, THAT will be suffering a violent INJUSTICE from the KING IN PERSON. Isn't it fair to defend an entire farm, and years of hard work by Skervel and Ketil, to create a good place for MOST slaves, over a single female slave? Is Arnheid's suffering fair, if it's to keep Ketil psychological, and keep him treating every other slave well? If it's for the benefit of the wronged, the solution is simple, keep the boss happy and we'll have a lot of happy slaves. If it is to defend the wronged, Ketil is the big victim here. Collectivist thinking always keeps us defending lesser injustices to attack greater injustices, but individually each one defends the injustice that he wants.
Hey controversial opinion! I am not defending Ketil and I am sad for Arnheid but I would not be so harsh on his character. In the world of Vinland Saga he is one of the least "evil" characters. I mean remember Askeladd from season 1. He did so many horrible things. He killed innocent people including children! But many people seems to love him or at least neutral about him. There are several characters like that. So I am against people who defend Ketil by saying that he did nothing wrong but at the same time I am not hating Ketil. Again he did wrong with Arnheid but he helped many people also like even Einar and Thorfinn ending up in Ketils hand is "lucky" for them. I mean how many slave owners were so nice and gave freedom to salves back then?
Even thorfinn did things infinitely worse than Ketil, but people are quick to forget that. Yes Ketil did something atrocious, but it isn't out of the ordinary for this show lol
I think you're confusing liking a character because of the way they're written and liking them because of their actions. I think both Askeladd and Ketil are very well written, but having a positive opinion of their characters is not a condonement of their actions. Same with how a lot of people love the Joker from Batman as a villain not because they disagree with him being awful. There's also something about a man beating up a defenseless (and pregnant) woman that strikes a chord with a lot of people, because it feels more "grounded" due to how much it resembles domestic violence that probably makes them perceive Ketil as worse than Askeladd, who by comparison we've seen kill his enemies by decapitating them with his sword in a manner that's much more over-the-top.
@@RoderickThe13 I mean you wrote that both of theit characters are well written but you will not find any person who hates Askeladd unlike Ketil! Answer is simple because Askeladd is cool man! Handsome and chrasmatic man! I could somehow understand if Ketils character was simple and badly written. But he is good written character and did less ''evil" than Askeladd! So again Ketil is not your cool, handsome, badass and chrasmatic man unlike Ketil who is old man who do farming lol
@@RoderickThe13 I am trying to say that viewers put characters above morality! If the character is cool, beautiful and written well then viewers will overlook horrible actions. Another example is Thorkell. His motto is to kill people. Who enjoys it! I would say he is motal person in that regard. Like he is not even killing for something justifiable. But again is cool and chrasmatic man so we can overlook or even forgive his actions!
Manga version is great but the anime version is the perfect one because it adds scenes that foreshadow certain moments in future episodes like the callback to the story of Leif's and Thorfinn's ancestors running away from Norway to Iceland.
@@Jonas-ob2sh I disagree I find it more impactful in the manga when I came to that realization on my own instead of being spoon fed it. It was more impactful IMO when going back to those earlier episodes/ chapters and realizing how much Thorfinn has grown and learned.
This episode was hard to watch, but holy shit was it an incredible addition to this anime!
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I love how these two thought Ketil's army stood a chance 😂
I mean if canute didn't show up immediately snake and thorgil would have maybe made a good plan but canute surprised them
Well, the OP is a big misleading
@@mohamedismail6777nah they still would have lost
@@mohamedismail6777 Snake already warned Ketil they would lose before the war officially started. He's the one who has seen the whole picture.
@@vedantgupta2145 they have homefield advantage and canute army is being cocky and arrogant if they played into that and made an ambush or something they could've made them bleed
to me, the most brilliant part of this episode is going from Thorfinn talking about finding the first method, and saying that there is no one in this world who deserves to be hurt... and then cutting immediately to Ketil, and everything he does. because what Thorfinn is saying isn't easy. the idea that nobody deserves to be hurt will never be easy to believe, and this show won't let you rest on your laurels and think that. you need to hold onto this idea anyway, especially when it is hardest to believe. by choosing peace, you choose a path that takes genuinely difficult work. it requires more effort, and greater resolve, than falling into anger and spite. but Thorfinn has proven to us, from day one, that he has unmatched tenacity when he decides to go after something. it's the same stubbornness that kept him trapped in his mistakes as a child. now that he's got that same quality pointed in the right direction... it makes me excited to imagine what he could do.
Ketil is a fearful man... he's always been afraid, ever since Sverkel sacrificed the woman Ketil loved all those years ago. Ketil has been insecurely hoarding comforts, like status and resources, ever since. we saw an example of it when he beat that kid who was stealing from him. based on his feelings, Ketil didn't want to do that. and based on his status and position of authority... he didn't have to. but if he wanted the people watching him to believe he still deserved his authority, then he had to do it... to project the right image. he's a coward... he can't choose to do what he really wants, even if his position says that he should have the authority to do anything he wants. and so the frustration builds.
and even after he beat that kid, he then goes and cries to Arnheid about what he did, and she knows he's a monster. he has so much more power than she could ever hope for, and he still won't do anything useful with it. his justification is even probably similar to how what happened to Hjalti got justified by the men who did it. to show authority... to prevent a kid from growing into a future problem... an intimidation tactic for everyone watching. and Arnheid's job is to comfort Ketil anyway. I don't think we're really equipped to absorb the full ramifications of what Arnheid knew, until we see this happen to her. until we see Ketil's wife echo the sentiment that, as head of the farm, it is Ketil's responsibility to handle this situation. but even given this horrible thing he's done... harming him will only ever create more fear in him, which always results in more backlash. Ketil always retaliates. he shouldn't have any more excuses to hurt anyone. he should have no more threats to fear. but it's also true that Thorfinn's enslavement has been a lesson in disempowerment. he isn't in control... but in contrast to Ketil, and just like Einar, Arnheid, and Gardar... he's still asking himself what he can do where he is, with what little he has.
Thorfinn's ideals may sometimes be impossible to bring into reality. but he still has to hold it in his mind, just so he never loses track of what he's aiming for. failing to reach it is still frustrating, but the ideal remains, so that he can try for it again next time. and forgiving one's self for falling short is key... Thorfinn has spent this whole season learning that he does have a path toward redeeming himself, even after how far he's fallen. I believe the first method is something that will always have to change and evolve, every time you deal with different people and circumstances. but that's why having the determination to keep putting your mind to it is valuable.
I absolutely love your comment 👌 very well put , so basically you are saying that reaching your ideal goal doesn't matter cause you won't reach it anyway , that's why they are called idea-ls ,they only exist in our minds , what matters it that you keep striving for it regardless, yep you are asking yourself to fight a losing battle but you do it anyway cause that's what it means to believe
@@saralaradji6766 true! and the other half is that it's not always doomed to fail either. the more peace you can create with people, the more allies you'll have, and the more trust they'll have in you. it won't get you out of every bad situation... it's not the solution to everything. but you can stack situations in favor of compromise, with enough foresight. and as you practice conflict resolution, you will get better at it, same as any skill. falling short will still be frustrating, but you'll also gain chances to succeed. it isn't all just suffering, and the rewards of this will feel even better because it's something you earned with your effort.
@@kamuyking551 plus even if you fail you probably just inspired a future success by another so it's never technically a failure , welp as long as you get through the constant repetitive frustration part that is 😅 , as long as that frustration doesn't give birth to hopelessness and pessimism or even worse to disappointment with people and the world and then that's just full blown depression, twisted superiority complex and entitlement , and their goes my least favorite type of villains, the type that makes me question my moral integrity cause most of the time they freaking make sense
@@saralaradji6766 I think that's another part of the point in season 2, specifically in the cast of Arnheid. she's a character that lived like a normal woman, and wanted normal things. but she was born into a demographic, and ended up in a position, where nobody would listen to her, even when she knew better. and she fell further and further into disempowerment over the course of her life, losing her husband, her son, her freedom, and eventually being used by Ketil as emotional support for his own bad choices. she literally had to watch a man wield power irresponsibly and then complain about it, even though she knows there are better things to do with it.
but that's just the thing with Arnheid... she became so hopeless because she didn't have the power to change anything. she couldn't lash out in her frustration... she couldn't even choose to protect what mattered most to her. she tried as hard as she could to save Gardar, she did as much as she was able, and it still wasn't enough to save them. compare that to Ketil, who did have power, and did sow destruction in his frustration. he was so insecure about holding and keeping power, that he failed to use it constructively. compare that to Thorfinn and Einar, who were granted no power by any outside authority. they might not have been able to save Arnheid, but were still able to stop Canute from taking over the farm. compare that to Canute, who felt like he was trapped in a course of action that would make him a lot of enemies, until Thorfinn asked him to stop, and he realized that he actually could.
Canute could've been that villain, who has the power to change things on a massive scale, and makes the decision to use it destructively... but Ketil is a cautionary tale about the harm that a person can do when they put more energy into anxiously keeping and maintaining power than actually using it to do what they want to do. and Arnheid is an example of the kind of determination that you can have when you really love and want something, even when your lack of power almost guarantees your failure. and Thorfinn and Einar are somewhere in the middle, trying to save Gardar, failing at that, trying to save Arnheid, watching her die, getting angry at Ketil, but choosing to end the cycle of violence with themselves, and instead of harming Ketil, honoring the memory of someone they loved by continuing to be the people that she loved too, and succeeding at a goal that honors her memory more than violence ever could.
but I think the thing that convinced Canute, more than anything, was the idea that he isn't alone. power often leaves a person at the top of a hierarchy with an overwhelming sense of solitude in their responsibilities. and Canute feels like he's made enemies, which gives him a constant sense of anxiety. but Thorfinn was never there to hurt him. and, as well, Canute was never really the victim. Einar's presence during their conversation emphasizes who Canute has hurt in terms of everyday people caught in the crossfire of his goals, what those people have a right to feel, and what a tall ask it is to hope that they'll just walk away. and then Thorfinn and Einar walk away anyway, because Canute is not their enemy. or at least, he doesn't have to be. his decisions matter in this too... he needs to meet them where they are. and he has every reason to. it will lighten the burden on himself as well.
it's never too late to change. it's never too late to start trying to sow kindness, and with enough effort, you may still reap the benefits of whatever good you've done. that makes as much sense to me as anything.
Snake approached the whole beating situation very smart. He said that Ketil had every right to beat Arnheid but he would loose his property. Ketil was totally lost that moment but he definitely didn’t want to give himself any more openings. So Snake telling him what he did was right but it would be even smarter to stop so he can keep her was actually the best way to save Arnheid. Questioning the morality of this would have made Ketil just continue.
This man seemed nice in the beginning because he treated Einar and Thorfinn nice and seemingly the other slaves as well. But why did he do that? Because he can’t face conflict. We see that he isn’t good at this with his sons and it eats at him as he has to face the kids who stole from him as well. As soon as something doesn’t go the way he is used to it builds up too much pressure. That man never learned how to work with negative emotions and never built up a healthy resilience. Him being nice to his slaves was just a way to avoid conflict with them because he wouldn’t be able to handle a bad situation. The moment with Arnheid really showed it.
He’s a perfect example of a human who never learned how to deal with hardships. They go crazy (and let it out onothers) or they take their own lives.
I think you're totally correct... and it all links together when you consider what Sverkel said to Arnheid. a long time ago, Sverkel allowed the woman Ketil loved to be taken away, because he wanted to avoid further conflict. in that moment, the point of their conversation is to let you compare Sverkel's decision to give in, with Gardar's decision to fight. both ended tragically, and the point is that disempowered people may not have any control, even when they try their best.
but this is also why Ketil becomes obsessed with obtaining and maintaining power. he doesn't want to be disempowered or lack control, because vulnerability is scary. but all throughout the first season, we were shown the hypocrisy of hurting people because you were hurt. revenge is just creating more of the exact pain that has made you feel so horrible... and it creates more of the same anger. this is a more complex version of that. you can understand Ketil's urge to insulate himself. but he's also putting his own wants and needs above everyone else's. consequently, he may become the villain in other people's tales of being disempowered and downtrodden. and while Ketil attempts to mitigate this by being nicer than he is required to be... he is still the obstacle between them and their freedom.
@@kamuyking551 I admit I was a bit unsure of what to think about Ketils backstory since it is anime only. But as we have seen already in the prologue the show really makes only very slight changes or adds something (like Leif visiting Thorfinnin jail) and if they do it adds to it. Tying Ketils lack of social resilience with such a backstory was actually a smart thing to do. They really foreshadowed a lot here if you were willing to think about how such an experience can change someone.
You explained that perfectly. Taking your hurt out on others creates just more hurt. It is an endless cycle. And VS continues to show this later on again and again. Facing the consequences and feelings you had back then is so hard but you need to work through it and make peace with it or you will drag others down with you.
@@PentragonCosplay I honestly never would've guessed that Ketil's backstory was anime only! it's such a good addition to his character, I'm so glad they did, because it's equal parts sympathetic and frustrating. what happened to Ketil was awful, and shouldn't happen to anyone... but if Ketil has gone through something like that already, then he should know how horrible it is to put others through that or worse.
it actually makes the situation with Arnheid all the more frustrating, because Ketil could've related to her and sympathized with her the whole time. they both lost a partner to circumstances outside of their control, and it wasn't fair. but instead we see Ketil get so immobilized by fear of other people's scrutiny, that he can't even use his power as the head of the farm to do what he really wants to do. like, in the case with those kids who stole from him? he didn't want to punish them at all. but other people had expectations that he didn't feel like he could fail to fulfill. so he chose to punish them anyway, and then went and cried to Arnheid. Arnheid who has never in her life been granted power by anyone, and has suffered the consequences of having no sway over her life's trajectory. now here's a man who does have power, and he won't even take the risk of using it for something he wants. and she has to sooth his mounting frustration over that.
and on top of that, Ketil's justification for why he had to punish that kid is probably similar to the kind of reasoning that led to the loss of Hjalti. gotta get 'em while they're young... nip it in the bud, before they grow up and you have a real problem on your hands. and Arnheid just had to sit there, listening to that, and comforting Ketil over a choice he made for himself.
and considering everything that Arnheid did to try and save Gardar, despite her lack of power or authority... she's so much braver than Ketil.
Seeing Ketil’s change from back when he couldn’t bear to flog those children to now him beating Arnheid, the one he claims to love, nearly to death with a club is insane.
Yeah. He's always been kind of brittle, and he just cracked like a pane of glass.
Ketil's character(arc) is so cleverly written. All this time we've been lead to believe that he was a kind man, but when push comes to shove the truth is that he's a weak man.
10:50 I love the detail of Ketil's sword being an "ULFBERHT". He is a very wealthy man so it makes sense that he could afford one. Even if he never used it, just having it would lend legitimacy to his manufactured warrior legend.
A little late but from what I've read about the ULFBERHT swords, the one Ketil has is actually a counterfeit one and not a legitimate one (based on the engravings). And that really fits with how he is a fake/counterfeit warrior since even the weapons he uses are counterfeit ones
I actually think Ketil genuinely thought he was being good to Arnheid. And what reinforced it was how Arnheid prolly never said no to Ketil, as she can't really say no as a slave. And Ketil failed to realize that even if she never said no, it's not something she actually wants. I feel like he fell into this rabbit hole of having the wrong idea about their relationship. Like, sir you're her owner. She'll do as she's told. But don't think for a second it's of her own volition.
In other words, Ketil probably thought Arnheid genuinely likes him. That's why he felt so betrayed. Although I think that's merely the tipping point. All that drama with Canute was constantly building up frustration in him, and finding out Arnheid's attempted escape was what pushed him over the edge. All this frustration funneled down to pure rage and violence.
I was bracing myself for the pain and just steeling my heart and Jacob comes at me with the "Sir, this is a Wendy's ...?" 🤣🤣🤣 It caught me so off guard I literally chocked!
That's why you shouldn't divide people into "bad" and "good" people. We have limited processing power, so we tend to simplify our view of other individuals. But it's important to never forget that such classification is not reality, it's our simplified perception of it.
Just like there are no "bad cars" that break and kill people, and "good cars" that listen to their drivers. There can be design flaws, some parts can wear down, and often it's just bad luck that leads to car accidents. If you take care of the car and regularly check up on it, then it will generally function well.
If you label a car as "bad" and judge it because it killed your father, and want to take revenge on it, that won't get you anywhere. It's the same with people. Labeling Ketil as "monster" will not lead you anywhere.
Only understanding the mechanism behind his actions, and then taking necessary precautions at the appropriate time in order to not let him develop this delusional attachment is what actually solves the problem. Blaming him for being a terrible human, trying to kill him or get revenge on him won't fix anything, it's throwing punches after losing the fight.
There was a lot of forshadowing for Ketil's toxic relation with Arnheid, him being so attached to her, him not giving her the option of freedom like he did to Thorfinn and Einar, it was all there. he always was. Ketil was good to Thorfinn and Einar but it doesn't mean he is good person.
No freedom for a slave
Agreed. And him being bad to Arnheid doesn't make him a bad person. He's just a person, with all the good and bad that that implies. The exploration of that is what makes this show so great.
toxic relationship? bro what are you talking about?😂 arnheid is ketil's slave, he bought her with his money
@@Someone-101magine cumulative of bad situations pile up in a short amount of time and everything that you owned will be taken over by someone. I wouldn't be mad as kettil but I understand why he do that. He's not a bad person, but not a saint either. Just a human that pushed over the edge...
HE IS ABUSING A WOMAN DENIES HER HER FREEDOM BEATS HER TO DEATH WHEN SHE TRIES TO GET HER LIFE BACK... he isn't a good man that did a bad thing because circumstances. He's always seen Arnheid as an object to possess.
Ketil is such an interesting character. He's not really a good person considering he still support slavery, but he can show to be kind enough compared to other slave owners, wishing to live a peaceful and quiet life with no stress and enemies. People that say he was secretely violent and ruthless are simply mistaken, he might have a darker side deep down, but the man is weak willed and afraid, not for anything he relied on Arnheid as confort to open up, since he was afraid of everybody judgmement and even of his own image. Alas everything that transpired with Canute made him snap and reawakened his trauma of having lost already what was more precious to him (his old love) and with everything crumbling, he became completely delusional and took the mask of "Iron Fist Ketil" seriously and truly became a foolish idiot who think to be better than anyone.
Saying that supporting slavery in the medieval nordic society prevents you from being good is a bit of a stretch isn't it? It's like someone in 2523 said that you can't really be a good person if you eat meat.
Supporting things the society in which you were born and raised consider as normal doesn't make you good or evil.
You guys gotta remember that the farmers haven’t yet been told that the enemies are Canute and the Jomsvikings, they’ve just been told that enemies are coming to take their farm.
So when they chant “might makes right!” they actually think they could have the greater ‘might’ in this situation. It is just Ketil who is deluded enough to think they have a chance against actual Jomsvikings.
Thorgell is even aware that they will all die despite how gung-ho he is about the skirmish.
By the time they are all gathered together and making that chant they have been told it is the king who is coming to steal the farm.
@@Stonewielder I believe Canute being the enemy is mentioned to them for the first time in Ketils speech like seconds before they chant, but the key piece of info left out is the Jomsvikings.
If you just hear “King Canute wants to take our farm” it’s easier for random farmers to think “he is sending some of his men to requisition our farm” rather then knowing specifically “the King is personally coming with the best warrior clan in the world to requisition our farm”.
What Canute is doing here is complete overkill and most leaders in his position would have just sent some basic troops to requisition this farm that has almost no defenses.
The details of this skirmish and how deadly their enemy is was conveniently glossed over by those rallying the farmers for battle.
@@masonterhorst That may be so, but at this this point not Ketil, not Thorgil, not a single person there knows the Jomsvikings are headed their way. So it's not like Ketil or anyone else was withholding that information from them.
@@Stonewielder maybe I assumed that Thorgil shared this information with Ketil, which is fair, maybe he didn’t.
I’m pretty certain that Thorgil, who was a part of Canutes personal guard and travelled there with the Jomsvikings and Canute originally, knew that that is who was with Canute and also Thorgil clearly assumed that Canute was coming himself with his warriors.
Because *spoiler*
Thorgil literally prepares to assassinate Canute or die in battle with the Jomsvikings.
He seems to be completely aware of what is coming given how excited he is for the glory of this battle and the way he prepares for it.
So maybe just Thorgil withheld his knowledge of how deadly this would be.
@@masonterhorst Thorgil wasn't privy to the plans to take farms, at least not until the events which lead to their escape with Leif. At that point he now knew his enemy was Canute and could make a knowledgeable guess as to the forces Canute would send to the farm but he couldn't be certain he would bring the Jomsvikings or even that Canute himself would come in person. It would have been an assumption on his part.
In a fight between a small, well-trained army against a larger group of motivated farmers, who would emerge victorious? Don't miss the answer in the next chapters.
I mean, if we're getting technical, at least some of those 'farmers' were captured warriors, albeit, not very good ones.
Its so nice to finally watch some reactors that full on call out Ketil for his actions, including the ones prior to this episode.
A LOT of people are saying he did nothing wrong and had done nothing wrong before this episode. But that is simply not true. Arnheid was his SLAVE, and like the bros pointed out in the discussion, he treated her like one. Einar and Thorfinn where not really treated like slaves by Ketil. Yes, he ordered them around, but he treated them more or less the same he treated the free men that worked for him on the farm.
Also, I am so glad they also point out that Ketil was taking advantage of Arneheid and the "snu snu" was NOT consensual in any way. Arnheid had no choice because she was a slave!
Ketil could do it anyways and there would be nothing to protect Arnheid from him because it was his right as her master to do with her as he pleased(Slavery is so messed up...). On top of that he could also punish her for resisting, as that was also his right as her master(And it was expeted of a master to punish a dissobedient slave in those times, and as we saw in episode 7, Ketil can be pressuered). So all she could do was let it happen and just try not to make the situation worse for herself. ( I just feel so bad for her)
And on the topic of her and the kid she got with Ketil...... imma make it short:
She knew that she eventually would get pregnant and decided to make the best of the situation(That is literraly the only agency she has in her life). She had been a mother before and therefor hoped that if she got a child it could bring some joy into her world again. As we learn later, the only joy she had on the farm was at the well with Einar and Thorfinn.
It really all boils down to this simple question:
If Arnheid was free, would she have wanted to sleep with Ketil and carry his child?
The answer: F*ck no!
How anyone is unable see this I dont understand.
I feel this discussion is gonna show up so imma just throw in my two cents:)
Yes, many other charecters in the show has done far worse than what Ketil has done, even with this episode in mind. But those charecters, like Askeladd are more likable because they have/had a greater goal in mind and they werent blind to their own actions. They also didnt do things out of pure selfishness(S1 Thorfinn is the odd man out when it comes to the cast of charecter in this regard). They werent/arent good and dont try to come across as pure people. They arent and they know that. At least thats why i think most people who watch this show like Canute and Askeladd as charecters so much. At the very least its why I like them more than I like Ketil.
Ketil only does things for himself. He only ever really thinks of himself and his own needs and wants(for lack of better words). He is incredible selfish and weak. I think that is why so many people have very strong negative feelings regarding the charecter compared to say, Askeladd.
Sorry for any gramma mistakes, English isnt exactly something I am an expert at:)
Ketil's character(arc) is so cleverly written. All this time we've been lead to believe that he was a kind man, but when push comes to shove the truth is that he's a weak man...
And there's been a few (not many) hints about this troughout the season.
Iron clown ketil 🤡
5:16 Jacob FINALLY realizes this is Ketil's wife. 😮
Beating up a woman, even if she's his slave, seems to make any man a villain, it's something that makes everything "black or white" very easy. I see few talk about the manipulative wife, who used the right words to convince the weakened husband, in a panic attack, to attack his slave, which she, the wife, hates so much. It seems clear to me that she intended for Ketil to overdo the beating and kill the poor slave. I really don't think he's ever executed so much punishment against Arnheid. She has never been shown injured thus far in the narrative, even though years have passed in this arc.(**The only time the slave was attacked until here was a big slap in the face, given precisely by the wife.)
To put Ketil on the bad team only after this episode is to deny that he was already on the bad team from the beginning, and gained attention for being the least bit kind and avoiding the stereotyped villainous figure. For me, he is an excellent character with enough depth to make you think about different subjects, just like Askelad.
Poor f****r is just so done he doesn't knows what to do but go on a rampage.That's exactly how many men are today: the high taxes, the government stealing some of their hard-earned work, responsibility for the family, misfit children... We are charged with an almost magical ancestral strength to support all of this
Ketil while I dont agree with his methods and is a terrible person, he is a brilliant character. TOP 5 in this show.
I agree. He is a top 5 character in terms of writing.
If I had to make a list of the most well written characters... It would go.
1. Thorfinn
2. Arnheid
3. Askeladd
4. Canute
5. Ketil
@@ianmcclure3936 what about snake and einar they are dope too
The number of people who I have seen/heard defend Ketil is alarming but sadly not surpising.
I was gonna comment the same thing. It's like 30% of people...
Yea, while I can see why he snapped the way he did. Taking it out on the woman, he kept saying he was in love with just shows how little he actually cared about her. She was just another thing he couldn't stand losing.
@@User_Unknown86 A pregnant woman...who was tied up.
What Ketil did was horrible and wrong. But one can't deny he had reasons to snap either.
I mean, what he did is terrible and he deserves to die for that, but characters like Askeladd and Thorfinn made way worse things and almost everyone love them. Askeladd caused the death, suffering, rape, torture, slavery of hundreds, maybe thousands of people, including children, Ketil made an unforgivable thing, but to only one person.
The monster inside Ketil came out this episode. His hypocrisy is sickening.
If you want to measure the true character of a man. Put them in a crisis and see how they react.
@@User_Unknown86By that logic, wouldn't Thorfinn also be a monster, afterall SPOILER
when he learned Floki is the one responsible for his father death, he immediatly switched to ruthless killer and stopped only because Floki's grandson calmed him down.
@soul6733 Thorfinn admits the person he was isn't far from the surface, that's why he doesn't like holding weapons and says he has a long way to grow
@@soul6733dude I can’t stand you if you can’t tell the difference between wanting to kill a Viking douche bag who orchestrated your fathers death or a defenseless woman slave you use and abuse
Ketil's generosity and even-handedness has always been possible because he's in control of his surroundings. Even when he has to play the part like with the boy thief, he's still the uncontested leader of all he surveys. He's rich!
But the best possible slave master is still a slave master.
16:55 Thorfinn is a very strange man indeed
The way Pater brought up Leif buying Arnheid and Einar, away from the guards, alone, carefully... Pater was a slave before he became a retainer, and I don't doubt that he had seen Ketil become unreasonably violent towards a slave or other person Ketil had power over, possibly even Pater himself.
I don't think so. From what we saw, Ketil is too weak mentally to normally act that violent. He's a man who is quite litterally scared of his own shadow.
I have quite a lot of compassion for Ketil. Sometimes I wonder why people judge him so harshly but don't do the same with Askeladd, Canute or even Thorfinn.
I think they just a bit biased to them. I share your compassion to ketil, but i do understand people's hatred. Of course it would be fair to judge askeladd and canute more harshly, but after all judgement and justice is concept created from human's feelings. It's not matter of objective analysis, but emotions and emotional preferences. Ketil is just less charismatic to most people and therefore less preferable
The depiction of how Ketil snaps, because he knows he is going to lose everything, and if you look at it, he himself never did anything that appears wrong. He told Arneid when they first showed the two of them "you are the only one i can be myself with". He loved her and felt all of it was betrayed, and with the stress of the king coming for him, he was trying to grasp his only happiness in his world to find it had betrayed him. What i love about the show is that even how he reacted was so real and believable. Just beautiful story telling, and props to snake for understanding all of it and intervening so perfectly.
not sure if you are saying you don't think he did anything wrong
be myself with.. only because she would be punished if she repeated anything, she couldn't refuse him but his delusional mind blocked out the fact he was rapping her and had been for years, no chance of freedom just keeping her as a prisoner it wasn't a real relationship so no not really betrayal
he didn't even give her chance to explain he just took all his anger out on her because he could
There's one thing he definitely did wrong: he forced himself onto Arnheid even though she didn't love him back. He admittedly gave her life better than an average slave would have, but he believed it entitles him to her loyalty. He only felt betrayed because he felt entitled first.
It's all part of Ketil's weakness as a character, that he could only 'be himself' with someone he controlled absolutely. When that control was threatened...
@@adamlatosinski5475bro if Arnheid stated that she doesn't live him bc she is forever loyal to her husband in the first place before he became so co-dependent with her - it would all be fine. This man was too much of a coward to hurt a thief stealing from him, he doesn't have the balls to actually rape a woman.
I can understand why he's acting this way after everything that's happened so far. He still shouldn't take it out on the women he supposedly in love with....Scummy move.
I'm just saying..... As Nasty of a Behavior that Ketil has here.... It still does not compare to the amount of suffering that Thorfinn inflicted during his Viking years.
Just in case there's someone out there who thinks he deserves to die more than Thorfinn does.
I'm not defending his actions.... I'm just trying to put things into perspective.
Its true this was how ketil snapped everything in his life is slipping thru his hands, they did show that he did lose his first love so some of that is there
A slave owner is still a slave owner, no matter how kind they may pretend to be.
These two never cease to amaze they really think a couple farmer could land a hit letalone kill a jomsviking even snake and thorfinn would struggle against two
Thorfinn and Snake would not struggle against two(we literally see Snake kill the two that were about to kill his fat friend i dont recall the name in the blink of an eye) but I do see your point. My point is while normal soldiers let alone normal people aren't a match for them, Jomsvikings aren't built the same and some of them are way above their fellow vikings.
This is the kinda misunderstanding the series will correct all by itself. Honestly the reaction will probably be better because of it.
we know for a fact thorfinn wouldnt struggle against jomsvikings
@@leandrodiaz5433 anybody will die if he gets jumped by high trained soldiers no matter how strong thorfinn is he might kill a few but at the end they will kill him but in 1v1 its different
MIGHT MAKES RIGHT sums up the thinking at the time
FOR THOSE BLINDED BY HATE:
The script sneakily backs us up against the wall again. The idea of identifying an injustice and defending the wronged sounds good, it's the wronged revolution in its prime! But if the scope is changed, revolutionary hypocrisy loses its foundations.
With Gadar it's not difficult to defend his life for being a slave, in our eyes it seems fair to defend him over random bodyguards named after animals. Gardar has suffered all sorts of injustices, and we defend him in the understanding that he is suffering a "greater injustice" in front of the guards he killed. But when it comes to defending Ketil... why is it so hard to ignore a single suffering slave, if it's for the sake of the ENTIRE farm, THAT will be suffering a violent INJUSTICE from the KING IN PERSON. Isn't it fair to defend an entire farm, and years of hard work by Skervel and Ketil, to create a good place for MOST slaves, over a single female slave? Is Arnheid's suffering fair, if it's to keep Ketil psychological, and keep him treating every other slave well? If it's for the benefit of the wronged, the solution is simple, keep the boss happy and we'll have a lot of happy slaves. If it is to defend the wronged, Ketil is the big victim here.
Collectivist thinking always keeps us defending lesser injustices to attack greater injustices, but individually each one defends the injustice that he wants.
The sad faces in the thumbnail was enough to get me to start watching this anime.
Those upcoming deaths of Ketil's people and Arnheid are just disgusting. damn
Don't like how Ketil is looking at y'all in the last 20 sec of this video
Hey controversial opinion! I am not defending Ketil and I am sad for Arnheid but I would not be so harsh on his character. In the world of Vinland Saga he is one of the least "evil" characters. I mean remember Askeladd from season 1. He did so many horrible things. He killed innocent people including children! But many people seems to love him or at least neutral about him. There are several characters like that. So I am against people who defend Ketil by saying that he did nothing wrong but at the same time I am not hating Ketil. Again he did wrong with Arnheid but he helped many people also like even Einar and Thorfinn ending up in Ketils hand is "lucky" for them. I mean how many slave owners were so nice and gave freedom to salves back then?
Even thorfinn did things infinitely worse than Ketil, but people are quick to forget that. Yes Ketil did something atrocious, but it isn't out of the ordinary for this show lol
I think you're confusing liking a character because of the way they're written and liking them because of their actions. I think both Askeladd and Ketil are very well written, but having a positive opinion of their characters is not a condonement of their actions. Same with how a lot of people love the Joker from Batman as a villain not because they disagree with him being awful.
There's also something about a man beating up a defenseless (and pregnant) woman that strikes a chord with a lot of people, because it feels more "grounded" due to how much it resembles domestic violence that probably makes them perceive Ketil as worse than Askeladd, who by comparison we've seen kill his enemies by decapitating them with his sword in a manner that's much more over-the-top.
Says a lot about the show how they can make you like genuinely fucked up people and hates the "lesser" fucked up guys who's done 1 terrible thing.
@@RoderickThe13 I mean you wrote that both of theit characters are well written but you will not find any person who hates Askeladd unlike Ketil! Answer is simple because Askeladd is cool man! Handsome and chrasmatic man! I could somehow understand if Ketils character was simple and badly written. But he is good written character and did less ''evil" than Askeladd! So again Ketil is not your cool, handsome, badass and chrasmatic man unlike Ketil who is old man who do farming lol
@@RoderickThe13 I am trying to say that viewers put characters above morality! If the character is cool, beautiful and written well then viewers will overlook horrible actions. Another example is Thorkell. His motto is to kill people. Who enjoys it! I would say he is motal person in that regard. Like he is not even killing for something justifiable. But again is cool and chrasmatic man so we can overlook or even forgive his actions!
Yess I’ve been waiting for the next episode!!
Interesting discussion.
20:14, 30:20
Love the parallels with episode 7. I urge everyone to read the manga this arc is perfect in the manga.
Manga version is great but the anime version is the perfect one because it adds scenes that foreshadow certain moments in future episodes like the callback to the story of Leif's and Thorfinn's ancestors running away from Norway to Iceland.
@@Jonas-ob2sh I disagree I find it more impactful in the manga when I came to that realization on my own instead of being spoon fed it. It was more impactful IMO when going back to those earlier episodes/ chapters and realizing how much Thorfinn has grown and learned.
Commence painland saga!
A reminder, not that a reminder should be needed, that there's no such thing as a 'good' slave owner.
I think we can still say that there is such things as a scale, even in the matter of slave owners.
Thors: You don't have any enemies at all.
Me after reading this chapter in the manga: I don't know. Can we make an exception with this bastard?
poor ketil, he is a kind guy, but the situation gives him a big pressure
He is kind but also weak
This episode might just be a tonal rock bottom of the entire series (even the manga)
Ketil was right