5 Reasons Christians Should Keep the Torah - David Wilber | Freedom Hill Community
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- Опубліковано 7 сер 2024
- Should Christians keep the Torah? David Wilber weighs in. This video is a Freedom Hill Community production: www.freedomhillcommunity.com/
2 Timothy 3:16 says that all Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, reproof, correction, and training in righteousness. But many Christians today have forgotten some very important parts of Scripture-namely, the "instructions" of God, or in Hebrew, Torah.
How much do you really know about the Torah? Well, if you’re a Bible-believing Christian, you might be surprised to discover just how relevant the Torah is to your walk with the Lord. Please consider these 5 reasons that Christians should keep the Torah and join the Christians around the world who are retuning to God's Word.
*Additional Torah-related resources*
Should Christians Keep The Sabbath?: www.freedomhillcommunity.com/b...
Acts 10 - Peter's Vision and Unclean Animals: www.freedomhillcommunity.com/...
Jesus Fulfilled the Torah - What Does That Mean?: www.freedomhillcommunity.com/...
7 Ways To Keep The Sabbath: www.freedomhillcommunity.com/...
Should Christians Keep the Torah?: www.freedomhillcommunity.com/...
Should Christians Keep the Torah? (Answering Objections): www.freedomhillcommunity.com/...
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Shalom, everyone!! I love Sabbath. Unfortunately I work night shift, and have to work Friday nights, and do Sabbath beforehand. I celebrate alone, in my kitchen. I repented of celebrating Christmas, Halloween, etc. I have to have that difficult talk, soon, with loved ones, to let them know I won't be celebrating these things anymore. It is not going to be easy, but, I was irritated with Christmas anyway so, I'm not going to miss it. I bought a gorgeous menorah and I cannot wait to light it. I'm alone, so it won't be as fun as it is for others.
I'm already being treated like I'm a horrible person, because I don't want to celebrate secular Holidays. The closest Messianic Synagogue, to me, is an hour away. I'm praying and trusting God for that to change, so that I can be with like minded people. Blessings to all of you!
My pastor teaches us about learning the Torah it's not only for Jews and celebrate all the feasts of the lord instead of these pagan holidays like Christmas, Easter, Halloween etc this is a True doctrine that was lost before the Roman Catholic Church ruin the true doctrine of God. And it is coming back hard.
So refreshing to hear someone speak Biblical truth. Too many in Churchianity twist the scripture to fit their sin.
Thank you so much for this! I am a Christian minister and within the last two years God has impressed upon my heart to not only live Torah but to teach others within the Body concerning same. Indeed it has been a blessing for me! However my heart breaks at the response of most Christians to God's instructions.
We continue to pray that the Ruach HaKodesh will bring illumination to the hearts of God's people.
Shalom!
Thanks for your comment, friend. Yes, may God continue to open the eyes of His people to His Torah. May God bless your ministry. Shalom!
May Yahweh continue to lead you through His Spirit!!!
I am Catholic but never knew about Torah until it appeared in my dream couple months ago.
For some reason I was curious about this so called torah I'm a Christian and this video popped up so I clicked it I've been doing research of the torah and I am shocked because I don't know no one from my church talk about the torah I didn't even knew what it was. I had to do research myself about this I was curious than God for letting me seeing this ! God bless you for this video !
Glad you were blessed by the video! If you have any questions, feel free to contact us anytime: www.freedomhillcommunity.com/contact
Awesome to hear that you are led to look into the Torah. I would encourage you to continue to do so because it will truly transform your faith and understanding. There are many great resources out there. I hope it is going well.
Torah is the first five books correct?
God bless you sister!!!
I'm a Jew and I encourage Christians to learn to follow the Torah.
Also I like reading the Jewish teachings of Yeshua.
I tend to agree. I was troubled when I asked why we as Christians continue to eat unclean meat. I was disappointed with the response I got ... .... oh well that only applies to the Jewish faith , we as Gentiles don't have to observe this. How does this make sense? Are we not to follow the 10 commandments as well as all other instructions given to us by GOD because they were given to the Jewish people? Should they come up with a list of Christian commandments and do away with those Moses received from the hand of GOD? The same question came about regarding the Sabbath. I asked where it said in the bible that the Sabbath was changed to Sunday. The response was no response. Through digging for the answer myself I found it was changed by the Catholic church to get more pagans to turn to Christianity since that is the day they typically worship. The bible is NOT TO BE CHANGED!
the Sabbath is for MAN not Jews alone, it was created in heaven before sin and Jews and it's absolutely for ALL!
Thanks for the video. It's a blessing to see His people returning to His ways!
Thanks for watching! Blessings and Shalom.
IM SO GLAD TO SEE YOU AGAIN !!!
I've missed your wonderful zeal and love for our Savior! 😃
Praise and all glory to Yahuah forever!!!
Here's an issue I keep coming across. We are told we are to keep Torah, yet which parts? The feast days are mentioned, among other parts, yet there is nothing as of yet concerning exactly what we should do.
Torah means teaching.
Very good and knowledgeable video. Praise YHVH for your ministry of truth!🙌🏼
Really good video!
Amazing video
I wish I understood.. I have never been convicted to follow The Torah, I am currently doing research to understand if The Torah is for today or not. I am awfully confused.
Feel free to contact us if you'd like our perspective on any questions you might have: www.freedomhillcommunity.com/contact
Blessings!
It is very simple Elisa. There is no confusion if you are willing. Believe what Yeshua is telling you. Believe his word he has spoken to you. He says if you love him, obey the commands. If you say you love him, but don't keep the commands you are a liar and the truth isn't in you. True faith is believing what he has said and then demonstrating your love by doing what he tells you to do to show your love for him. Believe and Follow his Word. Make your chief desire to show him you love him; the answer is right there in plain sight if you are willing to see it.
Great video. Thanks for taking the time to put it together.
Mike Potts Amen 🙌 inoo sometime this year I had a vivid lucid dream I was walking in the street, and in the corner of the street I saw a clothes wrap up with the Torah and very old shofar wrap up suddenly I awake up,I wanna cry 😂
Amen 🙌 the Torah is in my heart and soul 😘
More Christians are accepting the Torah day after day! This is Yahweh's doing. HalleluYah! Even Paul went to Jerusalem & kept the Torah to prove to all that he never preached against Torah --Act 21. Why do some Christians continue to blaspheme?
i have a question about food.... Paul says everything is lawful , but not everything is profitable . He says to eat whatever is put before us . It was in reference to things sacraficed to idols but was he also talking about the kinds of food.??
Christ descended not to abolish the law but to fulfil it. The new commandment He gave is love that surpasses the law. For example consider adultery- the Lord Jesus Christ said it is not only the act of adultery but even the thought of it is sin. So commandment of love is more superior and holy. Torah is good but Grace through JESUS CHRIST is the essence of Good news
Great explanation! Thx!
Hi, what do Christians who keep the commands of the Torah say about Galatians 3:19 “Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.” I refer to the word ‘till’ which means until. Also in the same chapter verses 24-25: “Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.” Here I refer to the words ‘was’ and ‘we are no longer.’ I’m genuinely trying to understand, thanks! 🙂
Hey Michael. Regarding Gal. 3:19, first off, what is transgression? It’s a violation of an expressed command. Here’s what Pauline scholar Frank Thielman says about this verse:
"Paul probably means that God gave the Law at Sinai in order to reveal clearly Israel’s sin, to transform it from something ill defined and inchoate into specific transgressions against God’s will."
In Romans 5:13 we read that sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. In other words, without an expressed command, sinis not transgression. It’s still wrong, but without a law prohibiting it, it’s not a transgression. Pauline scholar Ronald Fung translates Galatians 3:19 this way:
"The law was given to make wrongdoing a legal offence."
Thus, through the Torah, God can hold us legally accountable for our transgressions. But what do we make of the phrase, “until the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made”? Does that mean that since Christ has come, there is no longer a need for the law? Not at all! As Bible commentator David Bedwell explains:
"The law was added because of transgressions until the offspring should come. The focus is on the fact that the offspring (which is Christ) has taken on our transgressions. It is the transgressions that have been dealt and done away with, not the law. Paul could have said here, just as he did in Romans, “What shall we say then? Are we to continue in transgression now that the offspring has come? By no means!"
Regarding Gal 3:24-25, here are some important things to keep in mind: Verse10 says that those who rely on works to be justified are under the curse of the law. Verse 13 says that Christ has redeemed us from the cruse of the law. With that in mind, we can understand the meaning of the guardian in verses 23-25. Paul is saying that Torah was given charge over God’s people to guard them and lead them to Jesus in whom there is justification by faith. So according to Paul, one of the roles of the Torah is to teach justification by faith! But what about verse 25, that we’re no longer under the guardian? Does that mean that the Torah is now useless? Not at all! What Paul is saying is that one of the functions of Torah is to lead the sinner to Christ. If the sinner has already come to Christ through faith and thus has been justified by faith, then the Torah no longer functions in that role for them. But that doesn’t mean that the Torah no longer functions in its others roles, such as defining sin, revealing God’s character and the work and purpose of the Messiah.
Hope that helps!
Freedom Hill Community Those were great answers to great questions!
Want to learn more. Look up river of praise.
kasher food ~> ( Isaiah ) yeshayahu 65;2 " I have spread out My hands all the day unto a rebellious people, that walk in a way that is not good, after their own thoughts; ...4.. that eat swine's flesh, and broth of abominable things is in their vessels; ..
is there a video, short like this one, explaining the meaning and parallells of the feasts? that would be quite handy.. ;)
No, but that's a really good idea. Maybe we'll put something together. We have short articles on each of the feasts (including Hanukkah and Purim) on our blog if you're interested: freedomhillcommunity.com/blog
I lean to agree torah is for today, but why does Hebrews say the old covenant passed and that the law is a school master UNTO Christ. Why does Romans teach that we need a righteousness APART from the law? TY
I would like to know this too. I was told God made a new covenant because following the old one was to hard? Idk I’m new and learning
This video made me see clearly. Thank you So So Much. God bless you! Great video!! Whats the name of the song/ music used for this video
Glad you were blessed by the video, Benjamin! The music is, "No More No Less."
God is Love and for me There's only one God and it's God
Interesting video and message. So, to be clear, you keep, and prescribe that all Christians keep, all 600+ commandments found in the Torah?
Thanks! We believe that we are to keep as much of the Torah as we can physically keep. All Christians agree with us on most of those commandments. (Don't lie, steal, commit adultery, etc.). But we should acknowledge that some laws cannot be kept today due to the fact that the elements required to biblically observe them do not exist right now. For instance, concerning the earthly priesthood or tabernacle/temple. This fact doesn’t take away from the validity of those parts of the Torah; it’s just an acknowledgement of the reality that some commandments are impossible to keep right now in our current context. To give an analogy, there are speed limit laws that apply to roads. But if a particular road is under construction and blocked off to traffic, then the speed limit law of that road becomes inapplicable. There's no way to follow that particular law when you aren't even able to drive on that road. It’s the same case with some parts of the Torah. Right now the road is under construction, so-to-speak. There is no biblical framework in which certain parts of the Torah can be physically applied. However, in the millennial reign of Messiah, this framework will be restored and much of the Torah that applied within that framework will be applicable again (e.g. Ezekiel 40-48). Hope that helps!
Freedom Hill Community not a very good analogy. - a speed limit is not a speed we MUST drive at, just not go over - but I what you’re trying to say though.
I’m curious: when the veil was torn upon the death of Jesus, it ended the sacrificial system, i.e. the Day of Atonement, correct? If the entire point of the system was to cover the sins of people - sin being a transgression of the Torah - and that was ended with Jesus’ sacrifice, how can we then say we’re still bound to uphold the law? What’s the incentive to follow it?
In essence, are you saying that we SHOULD try to adhere to the Torah but aren’t REQUIRED to? I don’t see how it can be any other way if we accept Jesus’ sacrifice.
We hold to historical premillennialism. So like all Christian premillennialists (John MacArthur, Dr. John F. Walvoord, etc.), we believe that the sacrificial system served and will serve a practical function. In addition to preparing meat and bringing about ceremonial purity for those who had become ceremonially impure so that they could be allowed to participate in the tabernacle services, it also painted a picture of the Gospel and God’s heavenly tabernacle. The Levitical priesthood will fulfill these earthly purposes again when it is reinstituted in the millennium. So just as the sacrificial system before Messiah served as a shadow of Messiah's work-the only means by which the sins of the people could be atoned for since animal sacrifices could never take away sin (Heb 10:4)-in the millennium it will serve as a memorial of His work.
For more information on our views about how we should view the earthly priesthood in light of Messiah's atonement and heavenly priesthood, here's one of our articles on the topic: www.freedomhillcommunity.com/blog/has-the-levitical-priesthood-been-replaced
Freedom Hill Community Seems like a memorial would be kind of a moot issue with the living Messiah being present.
Thanks for the replies and resources.
You're welcome to your beliefs. But memorials are important in the Bible. That's why most Christians do communion and Baptism. If God wanted to enact a memorial of Messiah's atonement in the Millennial reign, it's not that strange of a concept that He would use the sacrificial system for that purpose since it was already designed to point to Messiah's work. But in addition to the sacrificial system being memorial, as I already mentioned, it will still serve a practical earthly function like it did before the destruction of the Temple. So it's not *only* a memorial. Take care!
Excellent presentation: clear, concise, convincing. Of course it will be trashed by the Sunday Church crowd.
The scribes and Pharisees NEVER believed in (they killed) Yahusha but they want to obtain salvation on their own effort. That's impossible. That's why Paul said, through working the law none can made righteous. But through Christ we can made righteous.
Now, believing in Him as our saviour who saved us from our sin, and He ask us to love Him by obeying His commandments. But asked NOT to obey law in a legalistic way as the Pharisees did. Yahusha expect us to do more in a right way.
For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 5:20
Because Pharisees and Scribes obeys the commandments without the understanding. But we can understand the law and commandments by help of the Holy Spirit. Eze 36:26-27
Lopez Devasudan no, the Pharisees added to the commandments. They elevated their traditions above the commandments of Yah.They were not “keeping” the commandments by faith for this reason.
The music tho!!! :)
Great video! The constant music seemed too loud and became distracting to me, though. Just a bit of constructive feedback. Blessings!
Thanks for the feedback. Glad you enjoyed the video! :)
You missed the Mark on number 5, Galatians is about Paul warning against the Judaisers of Rabbinic Judaism that were trying to make converts into the Oral Laws of Rabbinic Judaism. Which also included being Circumcised! Paul was a Pharisee and understood how the Orthodox leaders in Israel were adding to the Torah instructions. They were making their man made traditions into laws and holding them higher than the Torah itself. In all of Paul's epistles he was on a campaign against Rabbinical Judaism. The key to understanding Paul's letters is 'TWO LAWS', Torah and the 'Oral Law'. The English translators mistranslated Paul's letters, not making difference between what Law Paul was speaking for and what Law Paul was speaking against! This has caused Christianity to shoot off in a false direction! The Grace that Paul taught was Obedient Faith. Shalom!
I would ask how you square all this with Peter being told by God Himself to eat unclean animals and then when he went back to the dietary laws, Paul came and "opposed him to his face" ? Yes, Peter was being a hypocrite and that was one of the main reasons Paul opposed him and also Peter's vision was certainly a picture of God sending the Gospel to the Gentiles but he still ate unclean animals from that day foward as did the other Apostles. These laws were in place to set the Nation apart as holy until the Messiah came and set up His Kingdom. Now the good news is for every tribe and nation and the types and shadows are done away with. (Unless you also think we should send a scapegoat into the wilderness every year and also offer daily sacrifices?) Paul clearly teaches it is the weaker brother that holds the "do not eat, do not touch" view. I don't want to cause anyone to stumble, I just have a number of Messianic Jewish friends who are caught up in these things and it is not very good.
Awesome!
This is your reason number 1. ( I will address additional of your reasons in later post)
#1 - John 5:46-47 - If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me.47 But since you do not believe what he wrote, how are you going to believe what I say?”
Here is a good example of taking a passage out of context.
Note that you equate “what he wrote" v47 to mean - [Moses wrote the Torah], therefore you conclude that it teaches that Christians are to believe and follow the Torah. But this isn’t the context of the passage. The Jews that Jesus was speaking to followed the Torah. The issue isn’t that they didn’t follow the Torah, but that they didn’t believe Moses when he wrote about Jesus.
Moses wrote in Duet: 18: 17- 18 - The LORD said to me: “What they say is good. 18 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their fellow Israelites, and I will put my words in his mouth. He will tell them everything I command him. 19 I myself will call to account anyone who does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name.
This is also confirmed in John 1 - 45 Philip found Nathanael and told him, “We have found the one Moses wrote about in the Law, and about whom the prophets also wrote…
So this passage doesn’t tell us that Christians have to follow the Torah to believe in Jesus as you imply, it is simply that the Jews whom Jesus was speaking didn’t believe that Jesus was the The Prophet that Moses was speaking about. Now I am not saying you are insincere just that your bias has influenced you to misinterpret this passage.
You are simply misusing this passage to imply that Christians are commended in it to follow the Torah. blessings.
Thanks for taking the time to respond. I think you misunderstood my intention in quoting that passage. I never suggest that Christians must follow the Torah to believe in the Messiah. I was merely showing that Moses wrote about Yeshua. It was a text to substantiate my statement, "The Torah is all about Jesus." It's from that basis that I say Christians should revisit the Torah. Why? So they can learn more about how it points to the Messiah. Lots of Christians have had their faith enriched through celebrating the feast days and learning the symbolic meanings of the various rituals and how it points to Yeshua.
So this first point isn't really a theological argument. That's what 3 of the other points are for. The video targets Christians, theologians and non-theologians alike. So I included a couple of points simply as a way to say, "Hey, here's why this might interest you as a Christian. You should do it!"
Anyway, looking forward to your other responses -- specifically on points 2 - 4.
Now I am in full agreement that studying the "OT" is valuable and I admit that it isn't done enough by most Christians. But, the title of your video is 5 reasons that Christians should keep the Torah.
While there is no doubt that the Torah pointed to Jesus, the question is how does this become a "reason" to follow the Torah as the Jews did (do?) The Torah as it pointed to a greater thing than itself. So what is your reason #1? Blessings
It's a reason to follow Torah, because it's always good to learn more about Scripture and how it connects to Yeshua. That's the point. Like I said, it's not a theological argument. We "should" do things that give us greater revelation of the scriptures and how they connect to the Messiah.
Freedom Hill Community Well it may be a reason to follow the Torah on a personal decision basis, but the question is are we required to keep the Torah as gentile followers of Christ. Perhaps I am misunderstanding your position. Are you saying that this is a personal choice that you have made, but it is not required by Jesus of all followers? If that is the case, then we have no disagreement. Blessings.
My first reason would be to encourage people to follow Torah as a personal choice. Same with the fifth reason, "because it's a blessing." Reasons 2-4 are more of the theological reasons why I believe Christians are required to follow Torah.
Great brother. It's difficult to talk to christian about torah. Everyone claim to be saved. We do agree believer SAVED by grace. But after that is what? Even all Israelites SAVED from slavery from Egypt by GRACE. But all.of them who save not made it to promised land. Only 2 those who obedient to God made it. Likewise, redemption is free but Eternal life is something we earn. We have to journey through wilderness in order to enter Eternal life.
Torah given to Isralites AFTER they being saved. Torah is NOT to for salvation but to lead is in righteousness path. (Psalm 119) For transgressions of the Law is sin. (1 John 3:4).
I observe Torah not for my salvation but because of my Salvation. For Yahusha said if you live me obey my commandments.
No, you are wrong.
Salvation is NOT something we can earn. You are a heretic.
Keeping Torah is out of love and respect for Yeshua. None of us can earn that eternal life, by doing anything
Hi I've started to study the torah! Also head covering! I felt I should do these things! Yet I get told it's deception! I feel drawn to the torah and the tanach too ! The artscroll tanach! Tell me if what I'm doing is right !
Absolutely right! As long as you recognize salvation is by grace through faith in yeshua and that keeping torah along with any other works you do is the fruit of your salvation and the way of showing your love for God and your neighbor you are on the right track, God bless you as you work out your salvation and study scripture :-)
Scripture is clear. If you love him, you will obey his commands. If you say you love him but you don't obey, then the truth is not in you and you are a liar. You are on the right track!!!
EXCELLENT!!! 100%.
PASTORS: Learn from this.
CHRISTIANS: Check out Jer. 16:19 and compare what you've been told before with what David has said here.
Oh don't you dare teach the holy spirit empowers us to do the torah, lol, you heretic, I am messing with you.
he picked food on the seventh day
You're referring to Matthew 12? If so, that is addressed, along with many other passages, here: ua-cam.com/video/a_WqXC3tbig/v-deo.html
He did not harvest (regular weekly work) on the 7th day, they picked grain to eat at that moment, big difference
God never said not to. Yeshua went against man-made traditions.
Reason #2 Jesus kept the Torah - Yes, Jesus did keep the Torah. I am always amused when this is revealed as if it is an unknown fact that should shock. Does anybody not know this fact? Jesus was a Jew and was sent to the Jews as their Messiah. As Paul says "First to the Jew and then the gentile". In fact Jesus did not and would not even preach to the gentiles. Matt 15:24 - He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel." Now are we to understand from this verse that Jesus' gospel would never go to gentiles? Obviously not. The great commandment indicated that all the nations were to be taught about Jesus and Paul himself was appointed by God as the apostle to the gentiles. The point is that it was not what Jesus' mission. Example: Jesus would not baptize with water - John 4:2 - Does that mean that we should not baptize with water just because Jesus didn't? Again obviously not. So saying that just because Jesus did something or didn't do something we should do (or not do) it is simply not a sound reasoning. We must look for specific and clear didactic texts that give us clear instructions.
Nowhere does Jesus ever say anything specifically that would make your case. He never says go and circumscribe the gentiles and teach them to follow the Torah. In fact in Acts 15, it is clear that gentiles are not required to follow the Torah as decided in the Jerusalem council. Now does being a Christian prohibit following the Torah? Obviously not, but nether is there any statement that plainly says that Christians must follow the Torah and all of it's requirements. As Peter so eloquently stated in Acts 15: 7-10 After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9 He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear?
So reason #2 is simply not a compelling reason that Christians should follow the Torah.
Blessings P.S. I will respond to your further positions later as I have some time.
Hey John. You said, "Nowhere does Jesus ever say anything specifically that would make your case." But that is untrue. Like I said in the video, Yeshua affirms the authoritative nature of the Torah and its direct application to the lives of His followers in Matthew 5:17-20. Then, just prior to His ascension in Matthew 28, He instructs His followers to "make disciples of all the nations [including Gentiles]" and "teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you." As you admit, Jesus kept the Torah and His teachings were based on the Torah. And "all nations" are to be taught all that He commanded His disciples, which would have included the Torah. Based on the book of Acts and history, the majority early Christians -- Jews and Gentiles -- continued to keep Torah throughout the first century. It was only until the second century when Christians started disconnecting from their Jewish roots and rejecting the Torah. But this later position to reject Torah was never monolithic within Christianity. We know that the sect of the Nazarenes, who observed the Torah, remained a viable entity within Christianity as late as the 4th Century. You also have the Ethiopian church who had a long tradition of keeping the seventh day-technically Friday sundown to Saturday sundown-as the Sabbath in addition to keeping Sunday as "the Lord’s day."
But I digress.
I touch on Acts 15 in my fifth point. In short, the issue in Acts 15 and Galatians was not about keeping Torah as a way of life. It was about what was required for conversion (Acts 15:1). A certain sect of pharisees were imposing their rabbinic formula for conversion onto the Gentiles. Their conversion ritual was about a year long and culminated with circumcision. (According to scholars, "circumcision" is often used in a short-hand way to refer to this rabbinic formula for conversion.) That's what the Apostles were against. Their conclusion was that salvation was by Grace through faith, not by converting to a certain sect of Judaism in a certain way.
Here are some additional articles I've written that might give you a better idea where many Christians who believe in keeping Torah are coming from:
Jesus Fulfilled the Torah - What Does That Mean?: www.freedomhillcommunity.com/blog/jesus-fulfilled-the-torah-what-does-that-mean
Should Christians Keep The Sabbath: www.freedomhillcommunity.com/blog/should-christians-keep-the-sabbath
Acts 10 - Peter's Vision and Unclean Animals: www.freedomhillcommunity.com/blog/acts-ten-peters-vision-and-unclean-animals
I must disagree with you on your take on Acts 15. 15:1 - Certain people came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the believers: “Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved.” & Acts 15:5 - Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.”
So the question clearly is are believing gentiles required to follow the Torah in order to be saved. This is the question that was being addressed as evidenced from these passages. The answer arrived at is clearly no the gentiles are already saved without these requirements. Acts 15:11 - No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.” Note that the gentiles are saved and are not required to keep the Torah. blessings.
Exactly. Neither the Gentiles nor the Jews are required to follow Torah "in order to be saved." We are not saved by keeping Torah. We're saved by grace through faith in the Messiah. That's what Acts 15 and Galatians are dealing with, not whether Christians should keep Torah. All Christians believe that we must keep God commandments after we become saved, but the debate is over which ones are required. I'm merely submitting that the Sabbath, feasts, and dietary instructions are required in addition to the other parts of Torah (don't lie, steal, commit adultery, etc.) that all Christians believe we should be keeping.
Since we are not saved by the Torah, then how is it that we are required to keep the Torah. In fact, the Torah is no longer required, but that doesn't mean that it was bad. This is the argument that Paul makes in Romans. Just as the woman whose husband has died is no longer under the marriage covenant, so Christians are no longer under the Torah, (which is the old covenant). Now what was morally wrong was wrong with or without the Torah as in Cain murdering Abel. The Torah had not been written by Moses, but murder was still wrong. Further, divorce was permitted under the Torah, but it was still wrong as Jesus explains in Matt 19:18 "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning." So morally is not subject to the Torah, but the Torah is subject to morality. Jesus has given us a higher standard as shown when He says that despite the Torah, divorce is wrong. So it doesn't follow that we are choosing which of the Torah we will follow and which we won't. We are guided by the Holy Spirit to a new covenant which is written on our hearts. It is not like the old covenant.
Jer 3:31-35 - "Behold, days are coming," declares the LORD, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them," declares the LORD. "But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days," declares the LORD, "I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34"They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them," declares the LORD, "for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more." This is what the works of Jesus accomplished.
So we are under a new covenant as was promised. So in that way we are not under the Old Covenant at all, but that doesn't mean morality has changed as that was the case even before the Torah. Blessings.
Hey John. You asked, "Since we are not saved by the Torah, then how is it that we are required to keep the Torah."
I don't understand the question or how you think not being saved by the Torah implies that we don't have to keep it as Christians. Israel wasn't saved by the Torah. They were saved and delivered from Egypt by the blood of the passover lamb. They were delivered because God remembered His covenant with Abraham. It was after they were "saved" that they were given the Torah and taught how to live.
You said that morality hasn't changed in the New Covenant, and I agree. Morality is defined as God. And indeed, much of the Torah was already established by God before it was given to Israel at Mt. Sinai. The Sabbath was established at creation (Genesis 2), and we even see the Israelites keeping the Sabbath BEFORE it was given to them as part of the Mosaic Covenant (Exodus 16). Even the distinctions between clean and unclean animals existed before the Torah was given to Israel (Genesis 7:2).
So what changes in the New Covenant? There is a change, but it's not that the Torah is taken away. On the contrary. What changes in the New Covenant is that the Torah is written on the hearts of believers by the work of the Holy Spirit (Jeremiah 31:33). This goes along with point #4. This was God's intention with the Torah from the beginning. He told us from the beginning that these commandments are to be upon our hearts (Deut 6:6). Through the New Covenant, God's intention with regard to the Torah becomes a reality.
2:18 -- Why on the "doorposts of our hearts"? Why do you get to change that one? Why aren't you spilling the blood of a lamb or goat, and applying it to the doorposts of your home, exactly as they would have at that time, according to TORAH?
7:23 -- Keep the TORAH because your saved. Why do those who do not express hope in Jesus Christ (not saved) but keep TORAH, do so? You're saying you keep it "because we're saved", yet many keep it, and aren't saved. So, what is the difference between you and them, and how does that make this point effectual if those who aren't saved have the power to keep the TORAH as well?
Putting the blood of the lamb on the doorposts of one's house was a command given only to Israel while they were in Egypt to protect them from the 10th plague. It was not a universal command given to all God's people for all time.
Not really getting the point of your second question, sorry. To clarify the point in the video, nobody believes in keeping any laws to be saved. Salvation is by grace through faith. Christianity teaches that obedience to God is in response to God's salvation. "We love because He first loved us." And love for God is defined by keeping His commandments (1 John 5:3). Thus, we don't keep Torah to be saved. We're already saved by grace through faith. We keep it because we're saved--that is, in response to God's love for us as demonstrated in sending His Son. Shalom.
Not sure I'm seeing why applying it to the "doorposts of our heart", while I agree with that conclusion, is unique from the rest of many commands as being applicable in the New Covenant under the direction of God's Spirit, where there was a time when they were literally not supposed to eat pork and literally were to apply blood to the doorposts (just putting on "in your heart" would have killed you... or been disobedient?)
The second part of my question, how is keeping the TORAH benefiting those who do not love Christ? If keeping TORAH is what is meant by 1 John 5:3, for example... then why are people who do not love Christ, able to keep TORAH?
It's different because the literal command was never a universal command given to all God's people for all time. It was a specific commandment given to a specific people in a specific context -- that is, Israel while they were in Egypt to protect them from the 10th plague. The Israelites didn't apply the blood to their doorposts of their homes during Passover in the years after that because it wasn't a universal command given for all time. Yet there are still spiritual principles and lessons we can draw from that story, hence "putting the blood of the lamb on the doorposts of our hears." The literal command not to eat pork, on the other hand, *is* a universal command given to all God's people for all time. So there's no inconsistency. Just applying the biblical commands correctly and in context. :)
Unbelievers in Christ who keep the Torah still benefit from keeping Torah. Anyone can obey God's commandments, but that doesn't mean they love God. There are plenty of atheists who live "good, moral" lives. But the primary motivation behind keeping Torah for those who do believe in Christ is love for Him.
+Dannyboyz You're writing run-on sentences so it's very hard to understand your question...?
Well... If you think about it, we are made it God's image and God is always calling out to his children, even those who do not believe in Christ. And because we are made in his image we are made to be social creatures, loving, loved, giving, etc... All characteristics God has we essentially have too. But because we are in a fallen cursed world (Gen 3:17-19) we are people who are swayed tossed back and forth by the temptations of the evil one. With that in mind, God is the most giving being, he is the source of love and because he loves us he wants to bless us and speaks to us. Many people would call this voice the "conscious" but I truly believe it's him speaking to us.
It's benefitting because the commandments in the Torah are good, following the is good and it still blesses. Just like people of olden days who ate vegetables and knew it was good to do so, even if they didn't know the genet
+Dannyboyz genetic make up or compound and how it works in the body.
They are shadows of the messiah, he came , go to Salomons island and tell them you can’t eat pork if you are Christians,, thisi is. None sense
It's ridiculous how people are so obsessed about keeping the Torah but only end up keeping it "conveniently". Those so called members of the body of Christ, who keep the Torah, would never keep Leviticus 5. If you swear, you have sinned; if you hear someone swear or you even get to know of it, you have sinned; if you touch a dead animal, you have sinned; if you touch a person who is unclean (with sperm ejaculation, boils, skin rashes, enzema, chickenpox), you have sinned. For all the above sins, you will have to send animals to the priest for sacrifice (in Jerusalem). Don't bring Jesus' sacrifice in here because this is not talking about salvation (keeping the Law's requirements never amount to salvation).
They also claim to be keeping the Sabbath day (and they are not even doing it the right way), but they forget that in Exodus 23:10-12, God didn't only talk about the Sabbath day but also, he first talked about keeping the Sabbath-Year: You should work for six continuous years and then, stay at home on the seventh year (Every seventh year, do not do any work at all).
They also talk about not eating "unclean animals" in Leviticus 11, but they will never obey Leviticus 11:21-22, which says they should eat locusts of every kind, beetles of every kind and grasshoppers of every kind. Contrarywise, the bible has made it clear in Acts 10:10-16; Romans 14:14 that there's no meal unclean anymore. Why? Because, we are no more under the Torah (Romans 6:14, 7:4-6; Galatians 3:23-25 2Corinthians 3:5-6). Besides, whatever is written in the Torah is commanded to those who are under the law Romans 3:19).
We the redeemed of the Lord are therefore, expected to live in morally upright ways (that's what the Lord expected from mankind since the days of Adam till now) and they are all adressed in the various epistles. Every spirit-filled Christian would by nature, live an upright life (Romans 2:14-15).
Hey Ebube. It seems like you haven't thought much about this theological issue and you aren't very familiar with the position of Christians who believe in keeping the Torah. Here are a few links that deal with the topics you brought up so you can educate yourself about this before discussing further. After you read these, if you have further questions or objections, feel free to contact us.
On the priesthood and sacrifices: www.freedomhillcommunity.com/blog/has-the-levitical-priesthood-been-replaced
Miscellaneous Torah commands addressed: www.freedomhillcommunity.com/blog/debate-recap-should-christians-keep-the-torah
It seems that you think being “unclean” is somehow a sin. It is not, otherwise as a woman my menstrual cycle is a sin. God forbid, as He designed it to happen in the first place! Being unclean is a matter of the heart before God. God cannot be in the presence of uncleanliness, which was the whole purpose of the Miqvah, or baptism. Being unclean is not a sin. It is a state of being which must be remedied before coming before a Holy God.
Why is your head covered, which is shameful according to Paul?
You are misunderstanding the context of 1 Corinthians 11. If it was shameful for men in general to have their heads covered, the Lord wouldn't have commanded the priests in the Temple to cover their heads. Why would the Lord command something that is shameful?
Read Galatians. And understand what is meant by "Christ fulfilled the Law". The Jewish believers in Galatia, were trying to put gentile believers "under the Law" and Paul rebuked them and went on to explain to them, why the Law was given, why the Hebrews of the OT were under it, and why believers in Jesus/Yeshua, both Jew and gentile, are not under the law. The scripture is clear. Jesus' sacrifice was all fulfilling and all encompassing. The precious blood of the Lamb. The law of Christ is what all believers live by. If you fail to keep ALL the law of Torah, you are guilty of the whole law. Hence why the Priests made sacrifices on behalf of themselves and all Israel.
Hey Carrie. Thanks for your comment. I've read Galatians many times -- Chapter 5 is one of my all time favorite chapters in the Bible. I give a short explanation of my views in point 5 of this video if you want to watch that part again. But in short, the issue in Galatians was not about whether or not believers should keep the Torah. The issue was concerning a particular pharisaic formula for conversion that a certain sect of pharisees were trying to impose on the Gentiles. The issue is also brought up in Acts 15. "Circumcision" was a shorthand way to refer to this conversion formula because the ritual culminated with circumcision. This formula was considered by these pharisees to be a prerequisite to salvation. That's what the apostles opposed being imposed on the Gentiles, not the Torah itself.
Also being "under the law" refers to being under the condemnation of the law (which we rightly deserve for breaking it). Yeshua redeemed those who are under the law (sinners). So no longer being under the law means that we no longer must face condemnation for our sins (death) because Yeshua took our punishment for us. Hope that helps!
Freedom Hill Community Then can you explain briefly, what part of the law you are speaking of when you say believers in JESUS/YESHUA should keep the Torah?
+carrie mack We agree with the vast majority of Christians that we should keep the parts of Torah that can be applied today -- commands such as "don't lie," "don't steal," "take care of the poor," "don't practice sexual immorality," etc. In addition to all those parts of Torah that all Christians agree we should be keeping, we also believe we should keep commands like the Sabbath, feasts, and dietary instructions.
Freedom Hill Community Thou shall not kill, steal, covet, commit adultery etc., these are repeated in the NT, but where do you see in the NT we are to eat/not eat certain foods, or keep the Sabbath? Christ is our Sabbath. One may keep the Sabbath if one wishes, and one may not keep the Sabbbath if one wishes "do not let anyone judge you in food...or in a day or Sabbath...one esteems one day and one another day...". Also, the vast majority of Christians, true believers in Jesus, do not keep the Torah. If you keep any part of the law, you must keep it all or be guilty of breaking the law. "All food is to be received with thanksgiving".
+carrie mack You asked "where do you see in the NT we are to eat/not eat certain foods, or keep the Sabbath?" You are arguing from silence here. But silence gives us no premise for a valid conclusion. Just because a commandment isn’t explicitly given in the New Testament doesn’t necessarily mean that God doesn’t want us to keep it. The New Testament doesn’t reiterate many commandments found in the Torah, such as “don’t practice necromancy,” yet Christians still believe we should keep them. And although it’s true that commands such as the dietary laws aren’t explicitly reiterated in the New Testament, they are implicitly reiterated in the New Testament. For instance, Yeshua instructed His disciples to make disciples of “all the nations” and teach them all that he had commanded them (Matthew 28:19-20). “All” that he commanded them most certainly would have included the dietary laws since and Sabbath as they are part of the Torah that Yeshua affirmed in Matthew 5:17-19. Moreover, Paul said that “all Scripture” is profitable for teaching, reproof, correction, and training in righteousness (2 Timothy 3:16). Certainly “all Scripture” includes the dietary laws and Sabbath. See more examples in point 2, 3, and 4 in the video. Hope that helps!
Man talk about taking scripture out of context! I hope everyone hearing this will actually go to their scripture and study this. This is completely wrong and totally under cuts what Jesus did through His works! It so undermines the works of Christ that it is a false Gospel!
Do you have any actual arguments to back up your assertions? Which of the five points brought up in this video do you disagree with and why? Please be specific.
Freedom Hill Community Fair enough. Due to time issues, give me a day or two and I will specifically respond to your actual points. blessings.
John Roper haha. I guess that your statement wasn't true then because you never came back to this
If John Roper is not chosen, John Roper will not and cannot be obedient. If John Roper is saved, John Roper will be obedient. This is a simple test of salvation.
John, sadly it is you who is incorrect. Once you understand Yeshua (Salvation ) is the Word made flesh & from the tribe of Judah. Then hopefully you will pray to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob asking to be set free of the doctrine of Replacement theology.