Thank you for the tips! I watched this immediately before an iR-04 race and I was actually able to apply it mid-race when I was having issues with my rear tires overheating and threatening to spin the car on me. Tapped the bias forward a couple ticks and the rears were happy within a lap. Without this vid I likely wouldn't have been on the podium!
Thank you. I finally understood WHY you get oversteer when you move the brake bias rearward. It's because you're asking too much out of the rear wheels. They can't brake at the limit AND turn at the same time without losing grip. And when the rear wheels lose grip, you get oversteer. Nobody before actually explained that.
This was such a great explanation, assumes the viewer knows nothing but isn’t condescending. For a non-engineer like me, this was terrific. I learned a ton. Thank you!
You're very welcome and I'm glad you had such a positive experience with the video! I try to make my videos as accessible to everyone as possible, but without skipping the science.
Just came across this, what a brilliantly clear explanation! Could you say something about how you might need to change brake bias between slow and fast corners?, eg turn 4 at Sebring which is a hairpin vs the final long turn? Thanks so much!
Thanks! I would say firstly a slow corner may require more deceleration, meaning you will have longer threshold braking and that may change how you want to optimize your brake bias as per the video. Slower corners will have smaller turn radii and more rotation, your brake bias will also influence that.
So stoked I found this channel. You’re explanation are one of a kind. Peter Windsor has been talking about short corner drivers (early apexing?) help us understand please. I really think this is a gold technique to race that next level😊
Hey thanks for finding me! Do you have an excerpt or context to his comment about early apexing? I don't really use the term early/late apex because it doesn't really mean anything to me. There's an optimal/ideal apex, and a driver can be early or late in reference to that, but it doesn't make sense to me why anyone would anyone intentionally be suboptimal on a hot lap?
Thanks for your reply;) sorry, but my explanation definitely Isnt as clear as it should be. Here’s a video where peter talks about it in detail. Enjoy @@LastTenth ua-cam.com/video/L-QnJngeC0s/v-deo.html
Hey@@ebotek, thanks for the link. I'm not sure I fully understand what he means when he says short corner. Normally when I used that term I am referring to corners that have a short duration. That said, the comments he made on Verstappen can basically be broken down to this - he uses more of the grip for a longer duration than other drivers. It can be summarized as "principle 2" in this video: ua-cam.com/video/ESZ0kA80RmU/v-deo.html. On that topic, I also have a video on trail braking that you might be interested in.
@@LastTenth Thanks for your time with this. Yes, it’s a bit difficult to understand what he means exactly. A lot of people in the comments feel the same way. Myself included. Thanks for your video recommendation! I’ve been on a last tenth marathon;) Learning so much along the way. I’m looking forward to new content. Keep it up 🙌🏾
Always wondered what really triggered oversteer when braking with high rearward Break bias, and this LastTenth explained it so well: The tires heat up and lost grip so as you turn in there is no rearward grip therefore spinning. thank you!
Yes the heat creates a vicious cycle. It makes the tires lose grip, and slide, which heats it up more. Before the heat though, too much rear brake causes the rear tires to slide, which causes the heat.
This is a really nice video, very informative. I knew most of this stuff already but it's good to see the "scientific" explanation behind messing with the bias, like tyre temps and such instead of just talking about understeer or oversteer.
btw if you're really wanted to have actual brake bias adjustment on your far you can buy kits that will allow you to actually change the pressure on the fly like in the sim. they can be a little pricey though especially since youll likely have to to a lot of supporting mods like a new pedal set and possibly a whole nee braking system
I *think* that would involve retrofitting a dual cylinder race car setup, or do you mean there are other kinds of kits? Either way, its a great suggestion. If you have links to any examples, I'm sure other people following the comments would like to take a look.
@@LastTenth not 100% sure but i think that would still be required although im sure if youre driving at a level where on the fly bias is needed then youve already done lots of other large projects to make yourself a racecar
Very nice video. Lot of food for thought. The only takeaway that I can apply atm before learning more about aero is to try and move bb to the front 3 quarters of the race in to see if it helps with a lighter fuel tank.
nice video, good explain, I drive rFactor 2 and these settings are important. I wait for my Asetek Invicta pedals too for test the braking will be better in rF2 on diff cars. can't wait to test. thanks for this nice tips here, I don't change my brake Bias while driving, I set it only for the track I drive.
Very good video. I really liked the 6 reasons at the end as it makes us think about the 'why' when we change BB, as well as the factors that go into those 'why' questions. Something to add is a tires total available grip, often shown as a circle (Accel grip, braking grip, Left/Right lateral grip), can be manipulated with BB, so it would be neat to see how that affects your 6 reasons as well.
Thanks Alex! If you've seen my other videos, 'The Why' is a very important part for me. Great suggestion btw! BB by itself doesn't really change the total available grip, or the traction circle, of a single tire; it changes how much of available grip is used though. Implicitly, the things I mentioned in the video changes the traction circle on a single tire. For example, Aero will increase grip. The Slope and Camber of the track will shift grip longitudinally and laterally as well. Basically, the reason BB needs to be changed is often because of changes in the traction circle of a particular axle.
brilliant video, I was wondering if brake bias was affecting the car behaviour that much, and this video shows me how much of an impact it has, you should do more of them, congrats !! :D
I am a bit curious about what to do when there is a downhill section but you have to steer into a corner whilst braking like Bahrain turn 10 for example. Should you move the BB to the front because of a downhill section ro rather to the back because you have to turn while braking?
Great question Soldat! First off, I'm not familiar with Bahrain so I had to look up some footage. The short answer is, it's always a compromise. The more trailbraking vs threshold braking you need to do in a corner, the less forward load transfer because of the lighter braking, the less grip the fronts will have. On top of that, the front tires can't do much braking because of all the turning they're doing, so you will want more rear bias. For T10, it doesn't look like there's much straightline braking. But like you also pointed out, in a downhill section you want forward bias. It could be that the two requirements nullify each other and you don't need to change it at all. So there's no absolute or correct answer. Brake bias is different for everyone and responds differently to every setup. You have to go drive it and see where the bias works best, keeping in mind the car's balance and the tire temps so that you don't overheat the tires on throttle. But the important thing is that you're fully aware of the slope and trailbraking, so when and what bias changes to apply.
In a car like the Porsche 911 RSR GTE in iRacing how should I manage the brake bias as the fuel burns off & the front end gets lighter over the course of a stint? Would I move the brake bias fwd or backwards?
You can reference the example here ua-cam.com/video/UK2sl0Po-1I/v-deo.html which talks about a rear fuel cell. You just got to do the opposite for a front fuel cell.
Thanks! Yes I did the animations. The ‘still’ car was illustrated by a really talented designer who works on Star Trek. Check out his info in the description!
so, in theory, with a Porsche you could start a long race with brake bias a bit more to the front, and then as the fuel cell drains you would adjust it slightly more to the rear so that the front doesn't lock up so easily? Did I get that right?
To add to this, a hard straight line braking from a very high speed (such as the end of a straight into a tight corner) will optimally require a more forwards brake bias because more weight transfer is happening towards the front under hard braking, whereas a more gentle braking zone can benefit from a more rearwards brake bias as there's less weight transfer towards the front. Also F1 cars and some prototypes have what is called brake migration, where the brake bias will actually change itself (migrate) automatically during braking based on preset values to be at the optimum value as much of the time as possible. Fortunately to my knowledge that hasn't made its way to a commercially available sim yet, lol.
100%! I will be talking about this in a future video on braking, but you've basically explained why in corners with a lot of threshold braking, you want more forward bias, and in corners with a lot of trail braking, you want more rearward bias (balance permitting).
Yeah unfortunately that's what we have to work with - continuous carcass temperatures would be nice to have. But every time they make it harder for us to do things, the more of an opportunity we get to do better than the lazy drivers.
Hey These videos are really great. In my opinion, being true to the channel name, you should cut the basic/novice/beginner explanations, as fighting for the last tenths are probably for those who are very familiar with racing anyway. I always struggled in university to listen through the first, not-so-interesting parts to get to the juicy stuff, which I was after.
Thanks for the idea! I tried to make it easier by putting chapters in the video and keeping them short. I'll probably at some point label them at different skill levels. For example, there will be a future video on Advanced Brake Bias Optimization. Keep the ideas coming!
@@LastTenth Something else popped to my mind. I'd love to see how you trial and error and improve in a telemetry analysis session. Like trying to match the comparison.
I plan to do an entire series on telemetry on the future, within it I'll probably do a workshop or two on how I go through telemetry. In fact, I have a method to find time in telemetry even without someone to compare to. All you need is your own data and this method will show you in which corners you're not going fast enough. It's a great suggestion, it's just too bad I can't put out videos as fast as I'd like... I'll get there and make one for you though! BTW, once upon a time we had a EG6 coupe with a B18C in it too!
@@LastTenth Great to see all these plans, I just hopped back into simracing and these videos come really handy. That B18 is a beast in its category and I still love it, altough it's in pieces for the last couple years :( complete rebuild of the car is in progress.
You're welcome and thanks! Yes, someone did the base illustration in a few cases, and I animate it for the video. Check out his Instagram in the description.
![Following a Car Closely [HOW TO]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EZVU0p7C4fw/mqdefault.jpg)
![Following a Car Closely [HOW TO]](/img/tr.png)
![FIX Top 4 Trail Braking MISTAKES [HOW TO]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/_qHQaM_e5XI/mqdefault.jpg)
Thank you for the tips! I watched this immediately before an iR-04 race and I was actually able to apply it mid-race when I was having issues with my rear tires overheating and threatening to spin the car on me. Tapped the bias forward a couple ticks and the rears were happy within a lap. Without this vid I likely wouldn't have been on the podium!
Congrats on the podium! Glad to have played a small part in it!
Thank you. I finally understood WHY you get oversteer when you move the brake bias rearward. It's because you're asking too much out of the rear wheels. They can't brake at the limit AND turn at the same time without losing grip. And when the rear wheels lose grip, you get oversteer. Nobody before actually explained that.
I love it! You're very welcome!
I have watched some videos on break bias, and this one managed to explained it best by far. You have a talent for teaching. Thanks!
Thanks! I'm really just basing it on how I'd like to be taught.😅
this video is gold! so many videos on brake bias but no one ever came close to explaining what *actually* happens!
This was such a great explanation, assumes the viewer knows nothing but isn’t condescending. For a non-engineer like me, this was terrific. I learned a ton. Thank you!
You're very welcome and I'm glad you had such a positive experience with the video! I try to make my videos as accessible to everyone as possible, but without skipping the science.
Just came across this, what a brilliantly clear explanation!
Could you say something about how you might need to change brake bias between slow and fast corners?, eg turn 4 at Sebring which is a hairpin vs the final long turn?
Thanks so much!
Thanks!
I would say firstly a slow corner may require more deceleration, meaning you will have longer threshold braking and that may change how you want to optimize your brake bias as per the video. Slower corners will have smaller turn radii and more rotation, your brake bias will also influence that.
Great info. Thanks and keep sharing💯
So stoked I found this channel. You’re explanation are one of a kind. Peter Windsor has been talking about short corner drivers (early apexing?) help us understand please. I really think this is a gold technique to race that next level😊
Hey thanks for finding me! Do you have an excerpt or context to his comment about early apexing? I don't really use the term early/late apex because it doesn't really mean anything to me. There's an optimal/ideal apex, and a driver can be early or late in reference to that, but it doesn't make sense to me why anyone would anyone intentionally be suboptimal on a hot lap?
Thanks for your reply;) sorry, but my explanation definitely Isnt as clear as it should be. Here’s a video where peter talks about it in detail. Enjoy @@LastTenth ua-cam.com/video/L-QnJngeC0s/v-deo.html
Hey@@ebotek, thanks for the link. I'm not sure I fully understand what he means when he says short corner. Normally when I used that term I am referring to corners that have a short duration.
That said, the comments he made on Verstappen can basically be broken down to this - he uses more of the grip for a longer duration than other drivers. It can be summarized as "principle 2" in this video: ua-cam.com/video/ESZ0kA80RmU/v-deo.html. On that topic, I also have a video on trail braking that you might be interested in.
@@LastTenth Thanks for your time with this. Yes, it’s a bit difficult to understand what he means exactly. A lot of people in the comments feel the same way. Myself included. Thanks for your video recommendation! I’ve been on a last tenth marathon;) Learning so much along the way. I’m looking forward to new content. Keep it up 🙌🏾
Thanks for the support and encouragement@@ebotek!!
Just WOW! Never seen this explained better and easier. Thanks!
You're welcome!
This was probably the best explanation video of Brake Bias I've ever come across. Great work!
Thanks!!
Always wondered what really triggered oversteer when braking with high rearward Break bias, and this LastTenth explained it so well:
The tires heat up and lost grip so as you turn in there is no rearward grip therefore spinning.
thank you!
Yes the heat creates a vicious cycle. It makes the tires lose grip, and slide, which heats it up more. Before the heat though, too much rear brake causes the rear tires to slide, which causes the heat.
Becoming my favorite channel for learning love how clear the examples are perfect tutorial keep up the clear well explained videos.
Thanks for the support Jeff!
This is a really nice video, very informative. I knew most of this stuff already but it's good to see the "scientific" explanation behind messing with the bias, like tyre temps and such instead of just talking about understeer or oversteer.
Glad it was helpful!
With this video you earned a new subscriber! Nice work
Thanks and welcome aboard!!!
Appreciate the info
No problem! Was it... high value...?😂
Lol I saw what you did there😃
Well done! Pat yourself on the back for a great vid!
I don't think I have ever seen brake bias explained so well.
Thanks
Thanks man! Your comments are super encouraging!
Great vid, thanks. I think your UA-cam channel is about to explode! Keep it up, and remember me when you are famous!
I Hope so! I won't!
And don't forget to keep supporting even if I'm not famous! lol
Awesome explanation made so much sense
Glad it was helpful!
btw if you're really wanted to have actual brake bias adjustment on your far you can buy kits that will allow you to actually change the pressure on the fly like in the sim. they can be a little pricey though especially since youll likely have to to a lot of supporting mods like a new pedal set and possibly a whole nee braking system
I *think* that would involve retrofitting a dual cylinder race car setup, or do you mean there are other kinds of kits? Either way, its a great suggestion. If you have links to any examples, I'm sure other people following the comments would like to take a look.
@@LastTenth not 100% sure but i think that would still be required although im sure if youre driving at a level where on the fly bias is needed then youve already done lots of other large projects to make yourself a racecar
On my miata you can just swap oem brake proportioning valve to adjustable one
Very nice video. Lot of food for thought. The only takeaway that I can apply atm before learning more about aero is to try and move bb to the front 3 quarters of the race in to see if it helps with a lighter fuel tank.
Did you try it out? How did it go?
@@LastTenth not yet still at work. Will update you
nice video, good explain, I drive rFactor 2 and these settings are important. I wait for my Asetek Invicta pedals too for test the braking will be better in rF2 on diff cars. can't wait to test. thanks for this nice tips here, I don't change my brake Bias while driving, I set it only for the track I drive.
Thanks for the comment. What are you upgrading from?
@@LastTenth i use now the fanatec V3 with bp kit. Good pedals too
I had those previously. They're good pedals.
Does brake bias affect mid engine, rear engine, front engine differently? What about no down force, some down force, high downforce cars?
Yes it does. The video covers weight distribution and aero balance.
Great video! Really helped me understand the differences between forward and rear brake bias and the effects each can have. Thank you!
Glad you liked it Christopher!
Excellent video, and the best explanation of the subject I've seen! Keep them coming and your channel will become very popular in no time!
Wow, thanks!
Very good video. I really liked the 6 reasons at the end as it makes us think about the 'why' when we change BB, as well as the factors that go into those 'why' questions. Something to add is a tires total available grip, often shown as a circle (Accel grip, braking grip, Left/Right lateral grip), can be manipulated with BB, so it would be neat to see how that affects your 6 reasons as well.
Thanks Alex! If you've seen my other videos, 'The Why' is a very important part for me.
Great suggestion btw! BB by itself doesn't really change the total available grip, or the traction circle, of a single tire; it changes how much of available grip is used though. Implicitly, the things I mentioned in the video changes the traction circle on a single tire. For example, Aero will increase grip. The Slope and Camber of the track will shift grip longitudinally and laterally as well. Basically, the reason BB needs to be changed is often because of changes in the traction circle of a particular axle.
brilliant video, I was wondering if brake bias was affecting the car behaviour that much, and this video shows me how much of an impact it has, you should do more of them, congrats !! :D
Thanks and I'm glad it helped you out!
Gr8 content! i was amazed how few subs u have compared to the level of content :O Subed!
Really appreciate your kind words! I'm glad that you're making a change to how many subs I have lol!
great teacher enjoyed this vid
Thank you!! Good explained
Great vid mate. I always struggle to explain this to others. Really good job
Glad it helped! Which part did you find the most helpful?
@@LastTenth Spot on from 09:30 till 12:00
I am a bit curious about what to do when there is a downhill section but you have to steer into a corner whilst braking like Bahrain turn 10 for example. Should you move the BB to the front because of a downhill section ro rather to the back because you have to turn while braking?
Great question Soldat! First off, I'm not familiar with Bahrain so I had to look up some footage. The short answer is, it's always a compromise.
The more trailbraking vs threshold braking you need to do in a corner, the less forward load transfer because of the lighter braking, the less grip the fronts will have. On top of that, the front tires can't do much braking because of all the turning they're doing, so you will want more rear bias. For T10, it doesn't look like there's much straightline braking. But like you also pointed out, in a downhill section you want forward bias. It could be that the two requirements nullify each other and you don't need to change it at all. So there's no absolute or correct answer. Brake bias is different for everyone and responds differently to every setup. You have to go drive it and see where the bias works best, keeping in mind the car's balance and the tire temps so that you don't overheat the tires on throttle. But the important thing is that you're fully aware of the slope and trailbraking, so when and what bias changes to apply.
You may be able to find an onboard of a real F1 driver and see on their steering wheel how they change BB for that corner.
great explanation and video
Wow instant sub and shared it to my sim racing friends after finishing the video. Thank you so much for the knowledge, I learned a lot ❤️
Awesome, thank you for spreading the word! Sharing is Caring!
What a great video. You earned a subscriber. I love these teaching videos.
Thanks and welcome aboard!
In a car like the Porsche 911 RSR GTE in iRacing how should I manage the brake bias as the fuel burns off & the front end gets lighter over the course of a stint? Would I move the brake bias fwd or backwards?
You can reference the example here ua-cam.com/video/UK2sl0Po-1I/v-deo.html which talks about a rear fuel cell. You just got to do the opposite for a front fuel cell.
Great video! Many concepts I always wondered and never found anywhere. Hope you make more of these! Subbed!
Thanks for the sub! In fact, I just published one! ua-cam.com/video/c3NxzTqVSWk/v-deo.html
Thanks for the tips! Do you do your animations yourself? They're great!
Thanks! Yes I did the animations. The ‘still’ car was illustrated by a really talented designer who works on Star Trek. Check out his info in the description!
Great video....subscribed!
Thanks for the sub! FYI I just published a new vid. Check it out! ua-cam.com/video/c3NxzTqVSWk/v-deo.html
Great video, very useful!
Great vid. 😊
auto subscribed 👍🏻Thanks for the great video
Thanks for the sub NikZ!
this video is really great
awesome video, thank you very much
Glad it helped Whippy!
top quality content. thank you
so, in theory, with a Porsche you could start a long race with brake bias a bit more to the front, and then as the fuel cell drains you would adjust it slightly more to the rear so that the front doesn't lock up so easily? Did I get that right?
Thanks Mark! And yes you got that right. BUT, it depends on which Porsche, not all of them have a front fuelcell.
thx a lot
To add to this, a hard straight line braking from a very high speed (such as the end of a straight into a tight corner) will optimally require a more forwards brake bias because more weight transfer is happening towards the front under hard braking, whereas a more gentle braking zone can benefit from a more rearwards brake bias as there's less weight transfer towards the front.
Also F1 cars and some prototypes have what is called brake migration, where the brake bias will actually change itself (migrate) automatically during braking based on preset values to be at the optimum value as much of the time as possible. Fortunately to my knowledge that hasn't made its way to a commercially available sim yet, lol.
100%! I will be talking about this in a future video on braking, but you've basically explained why in corners with a lot of threshold braking, you want more forward bias, and in corners with a lot of trail braking, you want more rearward bias (balance permitting).
The Audi R18 LMP1 has brake migration in iRacing just fyi :)
The Mercedes W12 also has brake migration in iRacing
What telemetry app is that?
It's Motec
nice vid thx
iRacing doesn't provide live tire temps and usage in telemetry, which would be a whole lot easier to work with
Yeah unfortunately that's what we have to work with - continuous carcass temperatures would be nice to have. But every time they make it harder for us to do things, the more of an opportunity we get to do better than the lazy drivers.
🏆🏆
Hey
These videos are really great.
In my opinion, being true to the channel name, you should cut the basic/novice/beginner explanations, as fighting for the last tenths are probably for those who are very familiar with racing anyway. I always struggled in university to listen through the first, not-so-interesting parts to get to the juicy stuff, which I was after.
Thanks for the idea! I tried to make it easier by putting chapters in the video and keeping them short. I'll probably at some point label them at different skill levels. For example, there will be a future video on Advanced Brake Bias Optimization. Keep the ideas coming!
@@LastTenth Something else popped to my mind. I'd love to see how you trial and error and improve in a telemetry analysis session. Like trying to match the comparison.
I plan to do an entire series on telemetry on the future, within it I'll probably do a workshop or two on how I go through telemetry. In fact, I have a method to find time in telemetry even without someone to compare to. All you need is your own data and this method will show you in which corners you're not going fast enough.
It's a great suggestion, it's just too bad I can't put out videos as fast as I'd like... I'll get there and make one for you though!
BTW, once upon a time we had a EG6 coupe with a B18C in it too!
@@LastTenth Great to see all these plans, I just hopped back into simracing and these videos come really handy.
That B18 is a beast in its category and I still love it, altough it's in pieces for the last couple years :( complete rebuild of the car is in progress.
Good luck rebuilding it!
Braking is for losers, I only send it 100% of the time.
Over complication of simple thing.
@OverTake_gg hope you are taking notes on how to explain to people about sim racing related topics
Thanks for the tips! Do you do your animations yourself? They're great!
You're welcome and thanks! Yes, someone did the base illustration in a few cases, and I animate it for the video. Check out his Instagram in the description.