Just to clarify: in this video, I’m testing different pedal force settings on the brake pedal, not stiffness in terms of pedal travel. Here, 'stiff vs. soft' refers to the force needed to press the pedal, not the elastomers. Hope this clears things up. A video about pedal travel will follow.
Are you gonna do another with harder and softer elastomers cause just like breaking balancing both might be the quickest, how would we know no one else is testing. Keep up the good work
High force is good for cars with highly sensitive brakes, such as F1 cars. I used to use 90kg with Audi R18 LMP1 car in iRacing, managed to get 3.15 at LeMans which is good as it is close to Kamui Kobayashi's time. Brembo Brakes say 100kg force is applied in the real LMP1 cars on the Mulsane straight chicanes. But this was because brakes where sensitive in the Audi. I am now trying to master GT3 cars and I use 50 kg and a stiff pedal, as I have Simworx pedals and they only go stiff. I can brake later with 50kg but its easy to brake too hard and slow down too much, as well as I come off brakes too quick and can lose the rear on corner entry. Real GT3 is about 80kg I have being told.
you guys keep forgetting why real cars have higher brake pedal load requirements. f1 experience 4g of force under breaking .requiring a stiff pedal so you have the ability to fine tune breaking force under heavy breaking with out locking up the tires at every breaking point. having a stiff pedal on our stationary sim rig is pointless, and will cuase knee pain and inconsistent breaking through out sim racing sessions.
Right. I do wonder what that must be like for them to adapt to.. Having this secondary variable of being thrown forward in the cockpit that has to be factored into smooth application of the brakes.. I wonder what it's like trying to brake on a slow lap in an F1 car. Sounds challenging.
@@divinasi0n The more I learn about F1 cars, the more I'm convinced that they're the most un-instinctive cars a man can drive. Makes me have so much respect for those that manage to get fast with them
Race cars having very stiff brakes seem more like a necessity than anything, due to g-forces throwing you around and you don't want to accidentally change the break pressure, so making it stiffer filters those effects out.
This is why active pedals are such an incredible game changer. With those, you can decouple the force/displacement from the physical spring/elastimer. So you can change pressure without changing travel and vice versa. You are no longer a slave to the springs as tu can setup the force/displacement graph at will. So what I like to do is making the pedal soft at the beginning with a lot of travel. That gives me a lot of control for trail braking. Then for the 30-50% range it gets harder but with a more linear feel so I can modulate with pressure and position. Then at 60%+ I set the rest in an exponential manner, so I kind of hit a wall and the pedal really travel less and less. This give me the confidence to slam on the brakes and land prett much where I want and modulate threshold braking easily with pressure and less position. Bonus, ABS are simulated in a way that it does not just vibrate, but push or release against my foot, making it very intuitive to keep breaking at the limit of abs. For the time being, these pedals are way expensive, but once they start to hit more mainstream markets, they will definitely revolutionize sim racing, at least as much as when load cell pedal hit the market for the first time.
With the vrs pedals, I was always racing with the red spring because it has less travel. Which I thought it was better. But a few months ago I changed it to the blue (more travel, softer feeling) and I gained like 1000 irating 😂 I’m at 4,2 at the moment. The main think was that I was so much more relaxed at braking and could modulate better the brake, playing also with the weight balance and etc.
I just made this switch as well. I like the softer pedal paired with a shorter tie-rod to increase travel. But your mention of being much more relaxed really resonates with me, couldn't agree more.
Great guide! Last year I upgraded from a lower end rig to a higher end rig with a much stiffer pedal mounting system. My personal preference is 50-55kg depending on the car, and it was amazing to feel how much more precise my modulation became with the stiffer rig. No point in buying loadcell pedals if you are gonna mount them to a sponge of a rig. Stiff mounting matters!
"not much" - Found 0.7 seconds per lap. Bro, found a lifetime worth of advantage during a race and goes "that's surprising". I'd be popping champagne :D
As a sim racer who uses between 150 to 185 kg brake pressure, I must add an important perspective to your methods that you also briefly covered in your video: travel distance. Brake pressure should not simply be adjusted by the software you use; springs and elastomer combinations must also be considered. For instance, you can apply the same pressure of 165 kg using only one spring and one elastomer, one spring and 2-3 elastomers, or maybe two springs and two elastomers-depending on the car you are driving at the moment. Adding or removing springs or elastomers will define the distance for the same pressure you put on the pedal. More distance will allow you to apply the same pressure more easily. For the Toyota GR86 you drove, I use one spring and three elastomers. For GT-3 cars, I use one really stiff spring and two elastomers. For open-wheel cars, I use only two elastomers or a combination of one spring and one elastomer. This method really changes the whole game, I believe. Also, applying force from the hips becomes crucial after reaching around 60% to 100% pressure with heel up. I think stiffer pedals add more control and immersion to the experience once you get used to them. It also creates a correlation in your brain between the force you use with your hands and your feet, which further enhances immersion.
Stiffness IS travel distance. Higher max braking force is an interesting but totally different topic. Increasing the force needed for 100% input doesn't make your pedal stiffer... Mistargeted video.
@@GregoryShtevensh many people are capable of putting that much force through one leg, it's how we manage to carry heavy things. That being said they probably aren't putting that much force into the pedal face, but rather the loadcell. I can max out the 200kg loadcell on my brake, but that only requires around 90kg of force at the pedal face
As a real life race coach and racer myself, I love my 120-130kgs (at full aero) pressure, there is no resting your heel on the floor, it is nearly all quads that are engaged. It helps prevent lock ups and I find my brake modulation a lot more precise. Yes I had to train for many months to get used to it (both legs being trained, not just one) but in a Sports Prototype LMP3 car I would not have anything else. For some reason, tin tops of much less calibre and a manual car, the softer pedal feels good too. I guess you just have to used to each car individually, but you have to adjust quickly. My brick wall race pedal is great, I literally smash it very hard and can feel the negative eccentric phase like I do in the gym and I do focus on power training, then eccentric phase at half the time of concentric. You sort of need to understand bodybuilding with very good technique to master the training process. Each of us are also very different with strength, so there is no real one size fits all here. This works for me now, but I trained into this necessity, for others it might be difficult. Top tier race cars usually have very hard brake pedals for extreme modulation control, except for something like a GT car, they are not as hard as you would think and also have fantastic ABS.
Your testing was completely flawed here. The pedal stiffness is determined by the elastomers or springs, not by the maximum pressure of the load cell. A softer pedal should bring more pedal movement, not less, as with your testing method.
Yeah it could be a language thing, harder/lighter brake force is what he describes. For me, a middle aged guy with an age appropriate level of deadlifts, squats and bicycle training rides, the Sprints on soft elastomers but with maximum force improved my braking a lot. The extra movement really gave my muscle memory a lot more to work with.
Paused the video right after the 160kg brake force factoid. For me, I chose a stiff brake pedal for 2 reasons. First I press directly on the loadcell without needing to push through springs or elastomers. Second, the lack of travel has my brake pedal exactly where I need it to be for heel and toe down shifting. I don't have my pedal set up to be stiff for the sake of pressing hard to get the brake pressure I desire. In fact its the opposite. Since swapping the elastomers out for metal washers, I don't need to press the pedal anywhere near as hard to get the braking forces I want. This gives me far more control over how much pressure I need, and has made my braking more consistent than when I used any spring or elastomer. I often encourage people to try stiffening their pedals, if they can.
Fantastic video, as always. I think you are one of the most informative UA-camrs when it comes to sim racing. One thing I would note is that people have different leg strength (as you pointed out with your buddy not being able get to 100% with an 80kg stiffness that was the default for you). So what would be your advice in finding that level (that ended up being 60kg for you)? Is it best to determine it based on how long you can comfortably keep the pedal pressed to 100% at that level? For example, I have my pedals at 50kg. But i can comfortably hold it there for only a few seconds. And over a course of a long race, that time goes down as legs get tired. So I don't think 60kg for me would be at the same level as it is for you. For how long can you comfortably hold the pedal to 100% when it is at 60kg?
idk about brake pressure or stiffness, I'll try to read these comments with attention, but I'm on the "I just drive and see what happens" group. karts, single seaters and touring cars to me were always kinda of the same, obviously, you'd adjust based on track and necessities, but on sims? what feels good for me is good enough
Earned a new follower today. Great videos and looking into your training offerings. Do you offer setup guide and training for going over our seating and viewing positions and rig setup as a potential session? I just finished my first rig build. Super new. I also have a 4090 pc build and the Samsung g9 57. Dialing it in has been tough. I’d love to see what your settings are for graphics. Are you running 7680x2160 or 5120x1440? And would you mind sharing your fov and using triple monitor view checkbox? A overview of your setup settings would be an awesome video for us Samsung folks
@@GitGudRacing looking very forward to that. Samsung g9 57 is such a potential all star. Hoping to get guidance from the pros on proper setup for it. I’ll check out your training website to see about coaching. Im all in for paying for a session to overview my setup as well make sure I have it all setup with proper geometry’s
@ I’ll be waiting for it. I’ll be sure to donate on that video :) I was looking around your site too to see if you offer a sim rig coaching session to review our setups somehow for correction setup. That would be an awesome offering.
interesting experiment but i think you confuse stiff and hard. I am not surprise too hard is bad. Many top sim racer have used very low ffb setup in the past. I'm not into it that much so it might have changed but excess loading is not good for precision. What might be interesting regarding braking is how much pedal movement do you want ? I saw you have "stiff elastomer". But now that you found the force you like you could try an even stiffer pedal (i used to drive with a barely moving load cell brake pedal) or maybe someting softer might work not so bad after all. My gut feeling was that soft brake pedal is bad because i hated soft brake on my bikes or soft pedal on cars but it might not be so bad. Would be something to experiment anyway.
Real car pedals stiffness have more to do with how the car is engineered than with better control as there are other ways to improve the drivers precision (in most sims you solve it with the car setup). In real life, each car have it's own particularities and there will be not so much about what can be adjusted AND that matters a lot how much each driver will adapt to that category. That is why sometimes a great driver in one category is just mediocre on another and there is only a very selective bunch that reigned on more of one top tier category (as a driver that aced in both Indy and F1, GT and Rally or even cars and bikes). In simulation, you just need to have enough resistance to feel the input and progressiveness (how tactile and instinctive is to use different pedal pressures during race) is more important than the stiffness itself. In this video you just described what is best for you and it have nothing to do as how good you are, as a lot of drivers (both real ones and only virtual folks) have as much of opinions. Cheers!
I have the updated Moza SRP's with a 100kg load cell. It feels about perfect. But then again, I haven't really compared it to anything else. Great video, thanks.
I have Sim Jacks from aliexpress now, compared them to Heuskinvelds and Mozas SRP's. And brother Mozas one feels like toys in comparasion to Sim Jacks which with custom elastometers are really close to Heuskinvelds one.
Good video, I was playing with stiffness of my pedal aswell, found that 50-55kg was perfect for me. Point is, experiment your pedal stiffness and find what suits you!
The stiff pedal on racing cars is not a desired outcome, it's just how racing braking systems on cars w/ slicks & wings work. You'll be most precise at 30kg or lower. The pedals that reach 120kg are to simulate the real cars, if you wanna just be fast in the sim, big kg simply slows you down.
I find it too difficult to trail brake or control my percentages properly into the corner when my brake is too stiff. Easier for me to tilt my foot rather than press from my back 🤷🏻♂️
So its all preference. No sim pedal shpupd be identical to real life either. It shouldnt be based on that. It should be purely about control over the sim. So ive found i eent from stif no trsvel to soft slot of travel. Found out i like imbetween. What matters most with sim racing pedals is feeling the two stages. A little lighter st first progressive intead a much harder stopping point then you modulate it. I found to much travel hurt my consistency and judgement. To little didnt help me trail brske as well. So that middle point was it. Also no gt3 or gt4 car is a brick wall for a pedals. Actually have way way more travel then you may expect. Again though that shouldnt be sim racing either. Its just about cpmfprt feel and control. No right or wrong. Get what you like and adjust to your liking. The only brick wall brakes are in indy cars and things like f1 and f2. Also the whole kg comes down to pedal design, travel and elastomers, springs or hydraulocs used or how a load cell is used in general. Some pedals 100kg feels like you need to push harder then some 200kg load cells due to the travel and not having enough pressure to fully take advantage of more. Ive had pedals I use 65kg on then others i used 140kg on so dont fall for the sales pitch. All about design. Almost no pedal actually needs more then 110kg. Heck people like dan and other pro drivers i know use 100kg or less. Dan uses like 65kg. So yeah. Again different then real cars. A gt4 or gt3 car would genuinely shock some of you at how much softer the brakes feel lol.
(comment before watching) I mean, it should be a personal preference thing right? Everyone's got different legs so that preference would depend on a combination of your own taste and your physical capabilities
you didnt change stiffness you only changed max pressuare , its all software changes ... did you try lighter sprigs? your pedal is always the same .....
I bet all these load cells between different pedals measure differently, and I'm always skeptical when numbers are thrown around. I use 130kg on Simagic P2000 (as displayed by their software) and I press it with ease and can race endurance and long stints no problem, and then I hear from Jimmy how he and Steve had trouble applying 100kg in their M4, irl with all those g-forces.. Numbers are really superfluous here, just find what you like in terms of travel and softness in elastomers and roll with it. I appreciate you video, but I don't like this fetishism we have today on simracing gear. That's why it had become normal for manufacturers to ask 1.5k on a rim..
The load cell measures the force applied to them, not the force you have to put on the pedal. There are different leverages depending on which pedal manufacturer you use. Some have direkt linear force with a small pedal lever and mounted high at the pedal it is very hard to press. Some have a longer pedal and the mount point at the pedal is lower or even have a rocker to redirect the force you apply. These are usually easier to press and measure higher forces at the load cell. The leverage is the key which translates your input force to the measured force at the load cell.
Doesn't mean anything. If you can adjust the mount point of the brake axis (which goes through the spring and elastomer) at the pedal to a lower location you will increase your leverage and get higher force readings from the load cell, even though you don't apply any more force. The leverage is the key. And with higher force range you will be able to modulate the brakes better.
Entry/Exit speed will set how much braking time you have so f1 need a stiff pedal for a longer entry braking period and a quick drop off for a short braking period for quick exit and not lock up so the weight is the restriction too easy to max brakes = lock up. In other race types more time to play around with brakes into and out of corner so you need more range of adjustment so more throw and a slower brake retraction time. Elastomers, springs and biomechanics are ways of adjusting the variables.
1. All Go Home . 2. I use 5kg on my Brake... Btw.. the Game is setting wiht original spring, i dont Set the original way . 3. WE are Humans, WE Walking!!! And someone carry day by day over 100kg off good food.. 4. WE need Wight 4 perfekt working . 5. No stifness , No Feeling 6. Ur hands can handle IT, but u need it on the Steenring i guess 7. Dont , try to Change Ur way Position 😅 8.than Put the stronger spring in IT. 9. Micro tune the Setup in Game... 10. My Name is mapomino , think on IT ,Like u Smiley. 11. Cheers
Just to clarify: in this video, I’m testing different pedal force settings on the brake pedal, not stiffness in terms of pedal travel.
Here, 'stiff vs. soft' refers to the force needed to press the pedal, not the elastomers. Hope this clears things up.
A video about pedal travel will follow.
Are you gonna do another with harder and softer elastomers cause just like breaking balancing both might be the quickest, how would we know no one else is testing. Keep up the good work
ah, I was 2minutes into the video and already confused. Stiffness does not have anything to do with max brake pressure.
High force is good for cars with highly sensitive brakes, such as F1 cars. I used to use 90kg with Audi R18 LMP1 car in iRacing, managed to get 3.15 at LeMans which is good as it is close to Kamui Kobayashi's time. Brembo Brakes say 100kg force is applied in the real LMP1 cars on the Mulsane straight chicanes. But this was because brakes where sensitive in the Audi.
I am now trying to master GT3 cars and I use 50 kg and a stiff pedal, as I have Simworx pedals and they only go stiff. I can brake later with 50kg but its easy to brake too hard and slow down too much, as well as I come off brakes too quick and can lose the rear on corner entry. Real GT3 is about 80kg I have being told.
you guys keep forgetting why real cars have higher brake pedal load requirements. f1 experience 4g of force under breaking .requiring a stiff pedal so you have the ability to fine tune breaking force under heavy breaking with out locking up the tires at every breaking point. having a stiff pedal on our stationary sim rig is pointless, and will cuase knee pain and inconsistent breaking through out sim racing sessions.
Right. I do wonder what that must be like for them to adapt to.. Having this secondary variable of being thrown forward in the cockpit that has to be factored into smooth application of the brakes.. I wonder what it's like trying to brake on a slow lap in an F1 car. Sounds challenging.
You get it right
@@divinasi0n The more I learn about F1 cars, the more I'm convinced that they're the most un-instinctive cars a man can drive. Makes me have so much respect for those that manage to get fast with them
Knee pain? 😂😂 that just means u need to work on legs in the gym man wow
@@f1ibraaa Wow.. you are big tough strong man. Have you actually ever driven a single seater?
Race cars having very stiff brakes seem more like a necessity than anything, due to g-forces throwing you around and you don't want to accidentally change the break pressure, so making it stiffer filters those effects out.
exactly
This is why active pedals are such an incredible game changer. With those, you can decouple the force/displacement from the physical spring/elastimer. So you can change pressure without changing travel and vice versa. You are no longer a slave to the springs as tu can setup the force/displacement graph at will. So what I like to do is making the pedal soft at the beginning with a lot of travel. That gives me a lot of control for trail braking. Then for the 30-50% range it gets harder but with a more linear feel so I can modulate with pressure and position. Then at 60%+ I set the rest in an exponential manner, so I kind of hit a wall and the pedal really travel less and less. This give me the confidence to slam on the brakes and land prett much where I want and modulate threshold braking easily with pressure and less position.
Bonus, ABS are simulated in a way that it does not just vibrate, but push or release against my foot, making it very intuitive to keep breaking at the limit of abs.
For the time being, these pedals are way expensive, but once they start to hit more mainstream markets, they will definitely revolutionize sim racing, at least as much as when load cell pedal hit the market for the first time.
Honestly sounds amazing.
Can't wait for active pedals to become cheaper. Guess I'll have to get one of those haptic motors in the meantime
With the vrs pedals, I was always racing with the red spring because it has less travel. Which I thought it was better. But a few months ago I changed it to the blue (more travel, softer feeling) and I gained like 1000 irating 😂 I’m at 4,2 at the moment. The main think was that I was so much more relaxed at braking and could modulate better the brake, playing also with the weight balance and etc.
I‘m exclusively using the red spring. Your comment made me want to try the blue one again 😅 I remember the blue one to be very soft in comparison.
I just made this switch as well. I like the softer pedal paired with a shorter tie-rod to increase travel. But your mention of being much more relaxed really resonates with me, couldn't agree more.
Great guide! Last year I upgraded from a lower end rig to a higher end rig with a much stiffer pedal mounting system.
My personal preference is 50-55kg depending on the car, and it was amazing to feel how much more precise my modulation became with the stiffer rig.
No point in buying loadcell pedals if you are gonna mount them to a sponge of a rig. Stiff mounting matters!
"not much" - Found 0.7 seconds per lap. Bro, found a lifetime worth of advantage during a race and goes "that's surprising". I'd be popping champagne :D
As a sim racer who uses between 150 to 185 kg brake pressure, I must add an important perspective to your methods that you also briefly covered in your video: travel distance. Brake pressure should not simply be adjusted by the software you use; springs and elastomer combinations must also be considered. For instance, you can apply the same pressure of 165 kg using only one spring and one elastomer, one spring and 2-3 elastomers, or maybe two springs and two elastomers-depending on the car you are driving at the moment. Adding or removing springs or elastomers will define the distance for the same pressure you put on the pedal. More distance will allow you to apply the same pressure more easily.
For the Toyota GR86 you drove, I use one spring and three elastomers. For GT-3 cars, I use one really stiff spring and two elastomers. For open-wheel cars, I use only two elastomers or a combination of one spring and one elastomer. This method really changes the whole game, I believe.
Also, applying force from the hips becomes crucial after reaching around 60% to 100% pressure with heel up. I think stiffer pedals add more control and immersion to the experience once you get used to them. It also creates a correlation in your brain between the force you use with your hands and your feet, which further enhances immersion.
Stiffness IS travel distance. Higher max braking force is an interesting but totally different topic. Increasing the force needed for 100% input doesn't make your pedal stiffer... Mistargeted video.
@@exci6198 Was gonna comment this also. Stiffness is just the wrong term.
Great info. Cool video. You don’t need to use every single feature in the editor. It was very difficult to watch.
1st of all. No... You domt even weigh that much on two legs. Theres no possible way you're pushing that hard with one leg
@@GregoryShtevensh many people are capable of putting that much force through one leg, it's how we manage to carry heavy things. That being said they probably aren't putting that much force into the pedal face, but rather the loadcell. I can max out the 200kg loadcell on my brake, but that only requires around 90kg of force at the pedal face
As a real life race coach and racer myself, I love my 120-130kgs (at full aero) pressure, there is no resting your heel on the floor, it is nearly all quads that are engaged.
It helps prevent lock ups and I find my brake modulation a lot more precise.
Yes I had to train for many months to get used to it (both legs being trained, not just one) but in a Sports Prototype LMP3 car I would not have anything else.
For some reason, tin tops of much less calibre and a manual car, the softer pedal feels good too.
I guess you just have to used to each car individually, but you have to adjust quickly.
My brick wall race pedal is great, I literally smash it very hard and can feel the negative eccentric phase like I do in the gym and I do focus on power training, then eccentric phase at half the time of concentric.
You sort of need to understand bodybuilding with very good technique to master the training process.
Each of us are also very different with strength, so there is no real one size fits all here.
This works for me now, but I trained into this necessity, for others it might be difficult.
Top tier race cars usually have very hard brake pedals for extreme modulation control, except for something like a GT car, they are not as hard as you would think and also have fantastic ABS.
Your testing was completely flawed here. The pedal stiffness is determined by the elastomers or springs, not by the maximum pressure of the load cell. A softer pedal should bring more pedal movement, not less, as with your testing method.
Yeah it could be a language thing, harder/lighter brake force is what he describes.
For me, a middle aged guy with an age appropriate level of deadlifts, squats and bicycle training rides, the Sprints on soft elastomers but with maximum force improved my braking a lot. The extra movement really gave my muscle memory a lot more to work with.
100% agreed.
Paused the video right after the 160kg brake force factoid.
For me, I chose a stiff brake pedal for 2 reasons. First I press directly on the loadcell without needing to push through springs or elastomers.
Second, the lack of travel has my brake pedal exactly where I need it to be for heel and toe down shifting.
I don't have my pedal set up to be stiff for the sake of pressing hard to get the brake pressure I desire. In fact its the opposite. Since swapping the elastomers out for metal washers, I don't need to press the pedal anywhere near as hard to get the braking forces I want. This gives me far more control over how much pressure I need, and has made my braking more consistent than when I used any spring or elastomer. I often encourage people to try stiffening their pedals, if they can.
with stiffer brakes my trail braking has gotten way better. thanks for the video!
Fantastic video, as always. I think you are one of the most informative UA-camrs when it comes to sim racing.
One thing I would note is that people have different leg strength (as you pointed out with your buddy not being able get to 100% with an 80kg stiffness that was the default for you).
So what would be your advice in finding that level (that ended up being 60kg for you)? Is it best to determine it based on how long you can comfortably keep the pedal pressed to 100% at that level? For example, I have my pedals at 50kg. But i can comfortably hold it there for only a few seconds. And over a course of a long race, that time goes down as legs get tired.
So I don't think 60kg for me would be at the same level as it is for you. For how long can you comfortably hold the pedal to 100% when it is at 60kg?
idk about brake pressure or stiffness, I'll try to read these comments with attention, but I'm on the "I just drive and see what happens" group. karts, single seaters and touring cars to me were always kinda of the same, obviously, you'd adjust based on track and necessities, but on sims? what feels good for me is good enough
You were adjusting max pressure, not stiffness.
Earned a new follower today. Great videos and looking into your training offerings. Do you offer setup guide and training for going over our seating and viewing positions and rig setup as a potential session?
I just finished my first rig build. Super new.
I also have a 4090 pc build and the Samsung g9 57. Dialing it in has been tough.
I’d love to see what your settings are for graphics. Are you running 7680x2160 or 5120x1440?
And would you mind sharing your fov and using triple monitor view checkbox? A overview of your setup settings would be an awesome video for us Samsung folks
thanks for the kind words man. i'll do a video about those points in the near future!
@@GitGudRacing looking very forward to that. Samsung g9 57 is such a potential all star. Hoping to get guidance from the pros on proper setup for it.
I’ll check out your training website to see about coaching. Im all in for paying for a session to overview my setup as well make sure I have it all setup with proper geometry’s
@ I’ll be waiting for it. I’ll be sure to donate on that video :)
I was looking around your site too to see if you offer a sim rig coaching session to review our setups somehow for correction setup. That would be an awesome offering.
Do long travel vs short travel next please!
Pedal ... Pedal ... Pedal
Great video 🎉
interesting experiment but i think you confuse stiff and hard. I am not surprise too hard is bad. Many top sim racer have used very low ffb setup in the past. I'm not into it that much so it might have changed but excess loading is not good for precision. What might be interesting regarding braking is how much pedal movement do you want ? I saw you have "stiff elastomer". But now that you found the force you like you could try an even stiffer pedal (i used to drive with a barely moving load cell brake pedal) or maybe someting softer might work not so bad after all. My gut feeling was that soft brake pedal is bad because i hated soft brake on my bikes or soft pedal on cars but it might not be so bad. Would be something to experiment anyway.
Real car pedals stiffness have more to do with how the car is engineered than with better control as there are other ways to improve the drivers precision (in most sims you solve it with the car setup).
In real life, each car have it's own particularities and there will be not so much about what can be adjusted AND that matters a lot how much each driver will adapt to that category. That is why sometimes a great driver in one category is just mediocre on another and there is only a very selective bunch that reigned on more of one top tier category (as a driver that aced in both Indy and F1, GT and Rally or even cars and bikes). In simulation, you just need to have enough resistance to feel the input and progressiveness (how tactile and instinctive is to use different pedal pressures during race) is more important than the stiffness itself. In this video you just described what is best for you and it have nothing to do as how good you are, as a lot of drivers (both real ones and only virtual folks) have as much of opinions.
Cheers!
I have the updated Moza SRP's with a 100kg load cell. It feels about perfect. But then again, I haven't really compared it to anything else. Great video, thanks.
Are you using your LC break pedal with elastomers or with springs?
@@yesway It has both.
I have Sim Jacks from aliexpress now, compared them to Heuskinvelds and Mozas SRP's. And brother Mozas one feels like toys in comparasion to Sim Jacks which with custom elastometers are really close to Heuskinvelds one.
@@peteyellow46 I see, Simjack is really tempting!
@@RADERFPV do you have an opinion on the springs vs elastomers in LC pedals debacle that's going around?
Good video, I was playing with stiffness of my pedal aswell, found that 50-55kg was perfect for me. Point is, experiment your pedal stiffness and find what suits you!
The scenes between are killing me, so fun!😂
Great information. Does travel matter as well?
The ideal pressure for my Conspit CPP Lite pedalboard is 40kg. A good middle ground between soft and hard.
Great video as always mate
Thanks Marian as usual great video. Do you have an idea about the Fanatec Braking and what those would be compared to your setup? Thank you
I keep forgetting to change the brake fluid after every sim race 😅
The brake pedal on my Porsche 944TS track car was very stiff!
do you have a version of this video without all the edits every 5 seconds?
The stiff pedal on racing cars is not a desired outcome, it's just how racing braking systems on cars w/ slicks & wings work. You'll be most precise at 30kg or lower. The pedals that reach 120kg are to simulate the real cars, if you wanna just be fast in the sim, big kg simply slows you down.
are your brakes the HE Ultimate ? Would you say the Sprint are very good too ?
Yes, I have the ultimates and I'm sure Sprints are very good - my friend has them and they're excellent.
I'd believe this is subjective. At the end of the day it's what feels good to you
Which spring have you used to modify your Heusinkvelds. I also want to do this but can't find a matching spring on the after market.
I find it too difficult to trail brake or control my percentages properly into the corner when my brake is too stiff. Easier for me to tilt my foot rather than press from my back 🤷🏻♂️
Everybody’s preferences are different :)
So its all preference. No sim pedal shpupd be identical to real life either. It shouldnt be based on that. It should be purely about control over the sim. So ive found i eent from stif no trsvel to soft slot of travel. Found out i like imbetween. What matters most with sim racing pedals is feeling the two stages. A little lighter st first progressive intead a much harder stopping point then you modulate it. I found to much travel hurt my consistency and judgement. To little didnt help me trail brske as well. So that middle point was it.
Also no gt3 or gt4 car is a brick wall for a pedals. Actually have way way more travel then you may expect. Again though that shouldnt be sim racing either. Its just about cpmfprt feel and control. No right or wrong. Get what you like and adjust to your liking.
The only brick wall brakes are in indy cars and things like f1 and f2.
Also the whole kg comes down to pedal design, travel and elastomers, springs or hydraulocs used or how a load cell is used in general. Some pedals 100kg feels like you need to push harder then some 200kg load cells due to the travel and not having enough pressure to fully take advantage of more. Ive had pedals I use 65kg on then others i used 140kg on so dont fall for the sales pitch. All about design. Almost no pedal actually needs more then 110kg. Heck people like dan and other pro drivers i know use 100kg or less. Dan uses like 65kg. So yeah. Again different then real cars. A gt4 or gt3 car would genuinely shock some of you at how much softer the brakes feel lol.
SUCH a good video
(comment before watching) I mean, it should be a personal preference thing right? Everyone's got different legs so that preference would depend on a combination of your own taste and your physical capabilities
Keep doing God's work, mate!
I think I’ve got my pedals set to roughly 50kg which seems to be a good middle ground for my smaller frame.
80 is plenty and 60 sounds about right to me.
you didnt change stiffness you only changed max pressuare , its all software changes ... did you try lighter sprigs? your pedal is always the same .....
Before watching i suspect a very high brake force can have similar issues to very heavy ffb.
having a collapsable cockpit means that i have can't use stiff otherwise i just pick myself up when I brake lol
I bet all these load cells between different pedals measure differently, and I'm always skeptical when numbers are thrown around. I use 130kg on Simagic P2000 (as displayed by their software) and I press it with ease and can race endurance and long stints no problem, and then I hear from Jimmy how he and Steve had trouble applying 100kg in their M4, irl with all those g-forces.. Numbers are really superfluous here, just find what you like in terms of travel and softness in elastomers and roll with it. I appreciate you video, but I don't like this fetishism we have today on simracing gear. That's why it had become normal for manufacturers to ask 1.5k on a rim..
The load cell measures the force applied to them, not the force you have to put on the pedal. There are different leverages depending on which pedal manufacturer you use. Some have direkt linear force with a small pedal lever and mounted high at the pedal it is very hard to press. Some have a longer pedal and the mount point at the pedal is lower or even have a rocker to redirect the force you apply. These are usually easier to press and measure higher forces at the load cell. The leverage is the key which translates your input force to the measured force at the load cell.
Theres g force when braking in real car that helps drivers apply to the brake pressure
Funny Fact: My sweet spot is at 57Bar…
Always target the timelaps. ¿Where is the real preasure? In simulation, thats is the important point.
to bad i cant adjust stiffness on my pedals...
Use springst , Not the spring u can buy 4 the Set. U need a Hardware Market and Go to Camping Equipment. U will find IT ...
Bro I use the clutch pedal of my G29 because if it was any stiffer I´d roll away with my gaming chair lmao
I can’t only take about 35kg with my worn knees😩
Doesn't mean anything. If you can adjust the mount point of the brake axis (which goes through the spring and elastomer) at the pedal to a lower location you will increase your leverage and get higher force readings from the load cell, even though you don't apply any more force. The leverage is the key. And with higher force range you will be able to modulate the brakes better.
Entry/Exit speed will set how much braking time you have so f1 need a stiff pedal for a longer entry braking period and a quick drop off for a short braking period for quick exit and not lock up so the weight is the restriction too easy to max brakes = lock up. In other race types more time to play around with brakes into and out of corner so you need more range of adjustment so more throw and a slower brake retraction time. Elastomers, springs and biomechanics are ways of adjusting the variables.
Never watched a so confusing video....
My brake strength is 150!
150 grams of compression springs!
😂
Another ultra stiff brake pedal user, who has clearly never done real racing himself. There seems to be a theme here...
1. All Go Home .
2. I use 5kg on my Brake... Btw.. the Game is setting wiht original spring, i dont Set the original way .
3. WE are Humans, WE Walking!!! And someone carry day by day over 100kg off good food..
4. WE need Wight 4 perfekt working .
5. No stifness , No Feeling
6. Ur hands can handle IT, but u need it on the Steenring i guess
7. Dont , try to Change Ur way Position 😅
8.than Put the stronger spring in IT.
9. Micro tune the Setup in Game...
10. My Name is mapomino , think on IT ,Like u Smiley.
11. Cheers
I've been running 120kg since day one. And I have a messed up ankle. I smell excuses.
I smell bullshit
Great information. Does travel matter as well?