Drop A Small Diameter Leaner Without It Splitting And Making A Barber Chair
Вставка
- Опубліковано 19 гру 2013
- Small diameter leaners do not have enough room in the stem to bore cut while establishing the back of the hinge. Here is the easy solution: make the bore cut vertical, and you will have your hinge, plus an ample backstrap to keep that tree still while you set it up. Here is another video showing this method: • Cutting A Small Diamet...
- Наука та технологія
Man, that’s nice. Thanks for including the closeup of the hinge cut.
never seen a vertical plunge; very helpful; most of us never thot of that; I noticed on the plunge cut you started with the bottom of the end of your bar instead of the top, I assume to prevent kickback. Great video; you learn a lot in a little time; thanks.
Yes, you are correct. If the tip or the upper corner was used, it would kick back. Start with the bottom corner, get into the tree and rotate to the direction you want to bore. Thanks for visiting!
Thanks for posting this.
I volunteer in a public park that's FULL of these small diameter leaners.
Thanks i just took down a leaning tree using your technique and it worked perfectly cheers
i can tell from here that's a strong saw and a sharp chain. Nice chunks it's pulling
Thanks, that was great information. My first barberchair was from an 8 inch uprooted tree partially held up by another tree's limb. It was leaning probably about 35-40 degrees.
Little ones will bite you. An old friend cut a 10 inch sugar maple recently by match-cutting it instead of hinging, and he had his skull fractured in three places.
Great cutting idea. And maybe next time, place the camera in a better position to view the point-of-operation during the cut
Here You Go! ua-cam.com/video/dlcA3B_zeSU/v-deo.html
@@DavidN23Skidoo THANKS, those angles helped a lot.
It still kicked up pretty good!
Yup, a little rocker action.
I have a bunch of small leaner like that. They’re diseased and have to come down. Gonna definitely give your technique a shot. By the way, what’s all that white stuff on the ground??
Thank you for sharing. Never seen that technique but I have one just a little larger I have to take down today and I will use your approach. Thanks again!
Hello Dave- another fine example of safely dropping a tree without surprises. What I find most amusing are the keyboard lumberjacks who with all their expertise have NO videos on their superior technique.
Everybody should realize there are many ways to drop a leaner but knowing different variations can save you in a sticky situation. I personally have learned much from mistakes I have made and always enjoy seeing new ways to approach a tricky cut.. 😃👍
I like to look at the channel when negative comments come in. Most of them are from guys with no videos of their own. I delete those. Many of the western loggers have strong aversions to bore cutting, and I can see why when they have extremely long bars and trees that weigh many times our Midwestern trees.
That, sir, is pure education. I’ll be using this for sure on 100 acres of timber in Kansas … ever present leaning hedge. thanks!
Thanks for visiting! If you ever come through Southern Illinois, give us a shout by commenting. We are just a few miles off I 64. We can whack a few trees!
Can you explain why the tree moved away from you and not towards you? It’s not obvious from your cut why the tree fell on the other side of the stump rather than your side where it could have been a problem for you.
1:17 People who can laugh at themselves are the best! Thanks for the vid!
nice video easy to follow and very informative.
I like it. I'll give this a try with my next ash leaner
Thanks for the follow up.... I have a small yellow pine with a strong lean... I will try that technique...
Post some video or still shots in a vid, please! Every tree is a learning opportunity.
Excellent technique. Thanks.
Excellent idea!
David thank you. I just dropped to leaners in my yard and your technique worked perfectly.
Great video and really like the close ups.
Thank you for commenting! We love hearing from our viewers.
@DavidN23Skidoo
My most challenging tree fell involved a bore cut. I wish I could use the technique everytime. Glad to see it's possible with small trees. However, how does your approach lessen the possibility of splitting? And it must be challenging to achieve an even hinge if the saw can't adjust laterally. Can the wedge cut be made after the bore cut?
Yes, you can change the order of the cuts. The reason for doing the vertical cut is because a small diameter tree does not have enough room to do a regular bore cut and still have a backstrap. Here is another look at the method. ua-cam.com/video/i4Zm497d28A/v-deo.html
Good technique. Thanks
Cheers. Another technique is the double V cut in which you cut two faces, one on either side of the tree which over lap/meet at the front. Viewed from above, they form an ‘arrow’ head shape which should point in your felling direction. You then cut in from the back with a standard cut. A healthy tree shouldnt split. We use this cut for trees which are too small to bore.
@Derwentmole
any chance you could make a video about this? I'd love to see it. I have an idea of what you're talking about but am not sure.
Great video. Exactly what I was looking for. Camera angles were excellent.
thank you. Good idea. It is all about experience
Very nice explanation,,,,,, I have used the same technique many times with great success. I'm glad you put it into a video
Thank You for commenting!
when you do your vertical plunge cut, could you angle it slightly, say 10 or 15 degrees off centre, continuing the cut either upwards or downwards to cut through the back strap from within the tree, rather than going at it from the back on a 3rd cut, as shown in the video?
I like to angle that cut if there is room to do it. You can put it in the stump or the butt, and then do the release cut
David blaa blaa the King of Oppa Land, just kiddin
I like it! just have practice skills to not cause kickback
Thanks for the informative video! I have leaner just like the one you cut that I need to drop.
Glad it was helpful!
I know this video is old but I am about to cut a tree (first time) very similar to the one you did in this video EXCEPT the tree is leaning towards neighbors driveway. When the tree falls it will land in their driveway. Any ideas on how to cut a 'leaner' so that it falls on MY property as opposed to theirs? Thanks in advance.
Send some photos to truebluetravelinman (at) Gmail (dot) com. Can it damage your neighbor's property in any way? It sounds as though this tree is not a good choice for learning. For leaners you need to throw, you must know the number of feet of back lean, and the number of wedging segments in the tree. Please do send photos!
Here is a blog post on figuring your wedging: truebluesam.blogspot.com/2011/02/throwing-your-800-pound-gorilla.html
@@DavidN23Skidoo Thanks so much for replying! I will take photos this afternoon (Saturday, April 1, 2023). ❤ _thanks again_
always rev the saw to release the choke before letting the chainbrake off.. your second start you just released the chainbrake while the engine was full choke.. the chain was in full motion.. be careful.. . . good video tho.. thanks
Nah screw that I do it all the time it's not a big deal
Love it,great technique
Thanks so much!
thank you David
That seems to work pretty well.
Does it matter whether the initial cut is a conventional hinge vs a Humboldt hinge?
The face should have an opening of 70 to 90 degrees. You can have the angled surface top, bottom, or both. The angled top cut aims your tree, and doing it first makes aiming easier than doing a horizontal cut first for aiming. You look down through the top cut as you make your matching bottom cut so you can stop the saw as the two cuts meet.
This is so great! Had a chance to try it out over the weekend. One question came up though, are you taking any care not to let your bore cut drop below the hinge height? It looks on camera as though it drops below slightly. I didn't try it out, boring below the hinge, just because it didn't feel right when I was cutting and everything worked as planned, but wondering if you'd thought about this aspect of the cut.
You can set this up with the top of the bar making the back of the hinge, or the bottom of the bar doing it. I have tried it both ways, and now prefer to put the bore cut below the hinge. Either way works. ua-cam.com/video/i4Zm497d28A/v-deo.html
Ideally, the front and back side of the hinge should be at the same level. It is always good to grade your stump so you can make improvements to your technique.
Interesting technique. Not sure it’s necessary on a small diameter (6” and under) as the danger from barber chairing is negligible. It looks like you actually created a pseudo-barber chair as there were vertical fibers on the back side of your vertical plunge cut line. It certainly does appear your technique works (still not sure on the necessity though.) I’ll give your technique a try. Thank you for sharing and teaching. Stay safe and blessed.
Thanks for sharing !
hi nice vid im doing my felling from ground in uk .10.10.16 .
Makes sense to me. Nice work.
It is easy with a smaller saw. I just grab my ms-180 and whack it down, but on small diameter trees I just slash cut them and push them over if I have to. I never grab on of my 20 inch bar saws to whack down a three or four inch diameter tree. I can easily cut 12 inch diameter stuff with the Stihl MS 180.
Unique, thank you... But, now you got me to thinkin' and that ain't good. Also, you picked up a new subscriber.
Since then I have done a few more videos about this technique. I angle the vertical cut to strengthen the end of the butt, depending on the size of the tree. You can put the angle in the stump or on the butt of the tree.
I could see the possibility of using this on a larger tree, but that sapling would be cut completely through before it started moving, so no chance of a barber chair. Actually, i would just make a small cut straight in on the leaning side, then cut from the back. Exactly as i would cut a limb of the same size and configuration while standing on spikes 50 feet up a tree! I have never had a barber chair except when deliberately demonstrating how they can occur.
Nice idea, looks like it works well. I was taught to use a "V- cut" for these leaners that are too small to fell using a normal bore cut. Check it out!
Here are a couple more videos demonstrating this technique: ua-cam.com/video/dlcA3B_zeSU/v-deo.html , ua-cam.com/video/i4Zm497d28A/v-deo.html , Thank You for visiting and commenting!
I fail to see how this is an alternative to a bore cut. With a bore cut the hinge is established then the back strap is cut inside to out.
With this method you cut the back strap from the outside due to size, so isn’t a barber chair still possible?
This method does use a bore cut, just not perpendicular to the stem, because of the small diameter. Watch this video and you will understand: ua-cam.com/video/i4Zm497d28A/v-deo.html
This is a neat cut. There is such a thing as the 50' 8 inch dbh hard leaning tree. It's the extreme of angling the bore cut so you can leave enough backstrap when your bar is pretty wide compared with a small tree. I like to put the bore below the hinge height in the stump wood though and cut the trigger down there. Less likely to lose saw with the tree if the trigger fails . Or just coos bay/triangle
I've only got about 20 minutes total experience using a chain saw; but I don't like the way that tree was cut. If the vertical plunge cut is to be kept, I'd do the backcut so it met the top of the plunge cut.
That would work. The vertical or slanting bore cut is for those cases where a horizontal bore cut would not leave any backstrap. You can also do the bore cut so the top of the cut is even with the bottom of the face cut. Take a class where they teach you the bore cut. The ability to punch through a tree is what separates the chainsaw from a crosscut saw and axe. Bore cutting is the first cut taught in a good class.
Stump jump the cute little thing!
I like the V method.
It is surprising how flexible this method is. I angle the bore cut to increase the strength of the hinge, and place it above or below the hinge point, and it always works well. It really beats repeatedly shaving the compressed side on small leaners to take them down.
Same with this no need to be anywhere near it with a polesaw 15 feet away ive cut trees much thixker then that all from a safe distance you can just make a straight cut right through cause it doesnt matter
A small tree like this one, I can use a Milwaukee 18V reciprocating saw to cut it down in a few minutes. Don't need to use a dangerous chainsaw.
slpip Even better, use a palm sander and just sand in a circle until it falls. Or hack at it with a steak knife.
very nice instructional video sir well put together too. I have no idea how to cut a tree and i need to today so Im going to use this technique thank you.
airsoftfreak11 practice bore cutting on a big piece of wood or stump first. You have to guide the saw accurately.
Let us know how it goes; I would like to see you practice several bore cuts first. Wear your chaps and hat!
The purpose of a hinge is to control the direction of fall.
A small leaner does not need this control. Flexing the hinge just gives the tree an opportunity to split. I cut small, severe leaners the same way I cut off a similar sized branch. With a snap cut.
ua-cam.com/video/BGm6fP_xp5M/v-deo.html
@@DavidN23Skidoo I think that is called changing the subject.
Interesting
Seems to me that his vertical bore-cut is a great potential starting point for a vertical split ("chair"), which was the subject of the exercise. IMO either version of well-known Coos Bay back cut would be much safer.
Coos Bay back cut: cut in from either side, leaving strip of holding wood perpendicular to the hinge. Those side cuts can either leave holding wood of constant width or in the shape of a Delta.
OTOH, with a small tree like that, just stand off to either side and make the backcut quick @WOT.
Come to think of it, that sapling is small enough that you could make the backcut with a polesaw, if concerned about chairing. K.I.S.S.
+Jacques Blaque I posted a neater looking variation of this on Jan 24. Go to my channel and check it out. I think you will like it.
The hinge and backstrap make it stable. I now use an angled bore cut to make it look better. I have done this many times and it works well. ua-cam.com/video/dlcA3B_zeSU/v-deo.html
plunge cuts make me nervous. I'm a youngen,and the only advice I've ever received in person, was to stay away from cutting with the tip.
Until one develops their plunge cut skill set it should be a bit nerve racking. Once you understand the difference between the kickback corner and the starting corner and then apply it to a practice tree to develop your plunging ability, you can create that skill set. David has another video where he creates a plunging station to practice plunge cutting. I learned to bore cut by watching and doing it on my own. You may find you want someone that is competent at plunging to be there with you for the 1st 20 or so plunge attempts. There is nothing wrong with being nervous or apprehensive. I have said to my team leader on more than one occasion that the tree she wanted me to remove was above my pay grade and left it for someone else. That humble choice allowed me to live to cut another day. Perhaps in the future you will have a chance to learn from someone standing right beside you. Honor that voice inside that is presently nervous. But when you have an opportunity to learn to plunge cut, it will allow you the luxury of more control over the interesting situation, that tree falling is.
Scott L. Royal good advice, I learnt my plunge cuts whilst doing my tickets, I remember thinking they were mad at the time! Find it so handy now so glad I learnt. Find it really useful for crosscutting on the floor too.
Could you explain, your tickets & crosscutting on the floor.
thanks for the info but we dont see much of what you explained since you're between the camera and the tree
Seems to me that this would make it easier to barber chair. And when you do this you take a chance of it shrappin’ you in the face. I would’ve just bored in and made a hinge with your release tab to hold the tree and then when you’re ready you can cut it loose.
This is for small diameter trees where you don't have room to bore in with the bar perpendicular to the stem. Maybe this one will make you feel better: ua-cam.com/video/dlcA3B_zeSU/v-deo.html
I think you could have gone with a wider angle on your face cut to let the tree fall further before the hinge wood snapped and sent the tree backwards.
Watch the close-up and you'll see the face cut angle was fine. Looks like it came back because of a branch.
@@robopaul9 it looked like it closed too early, which made me think an open face cut would have been the way to go particularly when there are low hanging branches. I'm really just splitting hairs though, it was a beautiful cut and he definitely looks more experienced than me
The biggest issue when making one of these videos is they are all "one-take." Once the tree is down you can't go back and change it! I have a black willow hanging over our yard at a 45° angle that I want to take down this year, and plan to video that. We will see how that goes, and share it if I don't get my head knocked off! Gotta follow UA-cam's community standards!
While falling the tree kicked back. That was very dangerous. Glad that nothing bad happened.
Yes, it was a Rocker! Always move away from the stump when the tree begins to move.
Should have used a larger saw.
Everybody loves the 385!
I could’ve cut that with a hand saw and your telling him he needs a bigger saw for that?! What a dumbass 🤦♂️
i have cut many trees like this and all i ever did was make a small cut on the falling side and then a back cut a little above it and they fall nicely no real noch or plunge cut needed.
I've seen a lot of timber, many harvests and thinnings, and a bunch of barberchaired trees from sapling to sawlog size. Many of those injured or killed people. It's just a safety obsession of mine, since I know people who have been whacked.
Couple of steps back may save you from a smack in the face!
Three things: (1) maybe make the hinge a bit higher so its easier to get the bottom of the tip to make the vertical bore cut without risking a kickback from the upper tip quadrant. (2) make the backstrap cut a bit higher than the hinge so the falling tree steps down and goes only forward, (3) make the hinge a touch thicker to give yourself a few seconds to take escape route at 45 degrees.
This fellow has much experience, so its important to calibrate what he does, and what others should do, its a good idea to build in a greater margin for error, if you have less experience.
A video of...your side.
Heads up, you didn't edit that out...lol
Yeah, I thought that leaving this in added to the finished product. Thanks. ;^)
No Barbara chair but his hing failed. Lucky he didn't get hit.
Should have just made one straight cut about 6 inches from the ground on this little tree and gone on to the next one. Too much drama for such a small tree.
Your position obscured the cutting/felling technique...
ua-cam.com/video/dlcA3B_zeSU/v-deo.html Here's another look at this method.
What is it with Americans and the long stumps 😂 anyways, nice video.
Stump height doesn't matter with firewood trees. Get down in the root swell for sawlogs.
With this much lean, all ya freakin have to do is straight cut the side opposite the lean. God.
There hain't no doubt about that. People that try to make themselves geniuses, sometimes they get killed.
Sounds like a good way to make it barber chair
Yeah just lop it off or maybe put a small undercut in it
George
Can’t see what you’re doing
Take a look at this one. ua-cam.com/video/dlcA3B_zeSU/v-deo.html
Can't see his cuts
You can see his back
Here you go, John. This video shows it more clearly. ua-cam.com/video/dlcA3B_zeSU/v-deo.html
And, here's another look at this cut! ua-cam.com/video/i4Zm497d28A/v-deo.html
Be sure to stand in front of what you are trying to show.
Fixed it with this one. Thanks for visiting! ua-cam.com/video/dlcA3B_zeSU/v-deo.html
👌🇦🇺
I don't see how it helps the barber chair
Leaners will split if you cut from the back without establishing a hinge of proper thickness first. Bore cutting to set the back of the hinge is a basic method you need to safely cut these problem trees. Watch Tim Ard's video where the student does not do a bore cut as planned, and then the tree splits. ua-cam.com/video/V7vwoK47yUc/v-deo.html
Old fashioned SLASH-CUT !!!!! Over complicating a simple drop
Investigate a few chainsaw fatalities. Details matter! Build your skills and both you and your saws will have long lives.
H
I'm skeptical. Show me science and math.
Why put yourself between the camera and the action - you ain't the sharpest tooth on the chain ;-0