We are revisiting the subject of small diameter leaners to try out a different method that lessens the likelihood of the tree splitting or trapping your saw.
Leaners are always tricky. Even ground wood created issues with getting the saw pinched. The physics involved in tree cutting creates a lot of weight and force. Nothing more frustrating than getting the saw pinched. Usually from not studying the log before the cut. Great info!!!!
Everyone’s an arm chair critic. Appreciate the information, time and effort here! Take what you can from it and move on. I used this exact method last week on a small leaner, worked great. Thanks for creating!
Thanks for the video - some additional things for me to consider as I have a lot of small-mid leaners ahead. On this video, I would have liked to see you continue to see your approach to get it off the stump.
I usually start at the top end and work back to the stump. That way I am less likely to get smacked by a limb under pressure. You can cut the stem loose from the stump, but until you have done it a few times you may get pinched when things move. It's usually no problem. Loggers don't have these luxuries. They have to make their bucking cuts while the crown may be loaded up with pressure or tension.
This is awesome. Thank you for sharing. I'm a wife-to-be that wants to helps clear lanes for our hunting property. I have chain saw experience, but not very efficient. This helps. Thank you.
Another unhappy commenter: "Donald Sheppard commented: "There's no reason to be doing all this fancy cutting, it's giving the beginners way too many options on cutting a small leaner" and "Donald Sheppard commented: "Plunge cuts for beginners on nothing but a recipe for disaster with a kick back into their face" Plunge Cutting, or Bore Cutting is the first cut you learn in an up-to-date chainsaw class. Bore cutting is the thing that allows us to advance beyond the methods used with axe and crosscut saws. Learn to start with the bottom, attack corner, of the bar and guide the saw with your throttle open, and you can do wonderful surgery on the tree so you are in control until you turn it loose.
So, first off, great idea by doing the diagonal plunge cut. That is something I hadn't thought about, and I will use that method. With the benefit of hindsight though, as you said the face cut didn't close, therefore leaving the hinge intact. So to fix that as you probably already know, cut a more acute, or narrow wedge, so it will close and break the hinge. Also, if you cut the plunge cut to the left, or away from the tree trunk, it wouldn't leave that ledge to hang up on the stump. Having said that, I would have never thought of that before seeing your results first. Thanks for the diagonal plunge cut Idea, it's genius!
I disassemble little ones like this from the top down, and having the hinge hold it steady is not a problem. I often cut the hinge loose after the last firewood cut. On straight, balanced trees, the open face keeps the tree attached to the stump so the cutter has a safer getaway. There is a lot of history in the way we fall trees. The open face method is pretty recent; worked out by Soren Eriksson in the 1960's. Mr. Eriksson showed us that a chainsaw can make cuts that a crosscut saw cannot. The first skill you learn in a Game Of Logging class is borecutting. It is a life changer!
This is an unusual technique that this fellow likes. It is nothing like any professional would ever allow a nubie to use or agree is safe. Please view some of the many professional lumberjacks or arborists to learn the acceptable and reasonably safe tried and true methods of conducting what can be a very dangerous even lethal activity. It really doesn't matter how large or crooked the tree is that mames or kills you and they all have that potential.
Been there. They teach to repeatedly shave the compressed side, a tiring and time consuming process. I wanted a better way that leaves the cutter in control while keeping the stem connected to the stump. The key skill is being able to place your bore cut where you want it. I have placed that cut in the stump and in the stem, and both work well. Landowners get a lot of funky edge trees so this is an important skill. Thank You for watching and commenting. PS You are correct! Little trees can mess you up! Subscribed!
Interesting method ty ... Try cutting that strap on angle/ if it does split it won't pinch ur bar... To be safe wrap and tie rope several times left of the notch. It will prevent the split.
What works for me is starting with a vertical cut from underneath. Then I start a topside 45 from about 8 inches away, nearer the trunk. I make that 45, cutting toward my vertical undercut--away from trunk. When the 45 is close enough the limb slow drops. I find this very effective.
I delimb frequently with a pole saw and use snap-cut for that. I piece them back to take weight off and that type of cut works well. No hinge, though, just a quick disconnect and drop.
Shooting video on yourself is always a challenge while running a saw. I have to watch the tree and the saw, and hope that the camera is set up to show the action. I've been setting up two cameras lately and that seems to be an improvement.
+themadmailler Leaners will go into motion before the hinge is thin enough to bend, and the tree will split lengthwise, making a barber chair. I see them regularly in timber, and have seen ones that were the cause of a fatality. You use the bore cut to make the hinge a safe thickness, then you cut the tree loose. Once you learn to set up the hinge with a bore cut you will not want to do it the old fashioned way, which was used when folks cut trees with axes and crosscut saws.
What would likely happen if you chose to bore in and create the hinge along the triangle's other vertical side? (Cutting away from the base of the tree)
I have done it both ways, and they both work fine. Making the cuts above the stump makes people nervous; they think that method will allow the tree to split. Cutting below is no problem in most cases and if it makes you feel safer, that's OK. If something went wrong and your saw became pinched, it should be easier to deal with in the stump than above the hinge. I very seldom get pinched since learning how to bore cut and how to evaluate the weight and lean of every tree I cut.
I'm trying to educate myself on the various safety issues of bringing down trees with a chainsaw. (I've taken down many already in my back woods but I'm always looking to increase my knowledge base). But when I heard...."It's the first time I've tried this, let's see how it goes", I bailed. But kudos to you for putting this video out there to show what you're doing.
I cut a leaner that went down so quick, I didnt have time to blink. which I guess is the traditional method, get it done quick. This appeared to work better. interesting.
just a thought, but could it possibly damage the stump area of the tree on the top side by tearing too much off? perhaps a remedy to this might be to do a 2nd plunge cut at the stump end of the 1st (angled) plunge, but this time cut straight up through, rather than continuing the angle. it might also be a bit tidier. im not a fan of the "inline" plunge cut where its followed by cutting from the back. it just seems risky to me. what you did in this video looked very controlled and safe though it leaves a strange looking stump, but could possibly be modified as per above to leave a cleaner stump. excellent video though. First time I've seen this on UA-cam.
Hi David - thanks for a great tutorial - I have a very similar leaner, and this was the perfect thing to watch - one question. after you make the plunge cut, you say that for the final cut you have the options of going back in to the plunge slot and cutting out from there at the same angle (which is what you choose to do) or to cut down vertically from the top to connect to the plunge cut slot. This second option seems a lot simpler to me, I was just wondering why you chose to do it the way you did? Thanks again. malcolm
I think it was curiosity. Continuing out on the angle took longer and gives no advantage for escape. I normally pull out after the setup and finish by cutting perpendicular to the stem. When cutting with the bottom of the bar to finish you are already tensed backwards for escape, and fractions of seconds are often critical. Darn good question, and one that makes us think!
Ive cut bigger widow maker trees thicker then that with the tinyest electric polesaw they make all from a safe 15 feet away. Thats the best way to cut somthing leaning thats under 10 or 12 inchs
I do the exact same thing. I often make my face and back cuts with my 350 and finish with a polesaw if it looks shady. I don’t care what people say. Having a 10’ head start is fine by me.
I'm far from a pro, but just don't see how a V cut at the bottom and then a slow gradual vertical cut from the top would cause a problem. Once you detect the slightest movement you pull out and exit. Once the end falls on the ground you can chunk it up working from the outward end and back towards the cut where you can finish up. Where am I wrong? I'm a newbie and want to learn easy/safe/uncomplicated cuts and don't care how long they take to execute. Bore cutting seems less forgiving to error/miscalculation.
Boring a stem to establish a hinge before you turn the tree loose neutralizes the risk of the stem splitting. That is a critical safety issue. Bore cutting should be the first cut you learn so you can always be in control of your hinge thickness, and control when your tree goes into motion. Have a look at this video for discussion of avoiding impact injuries: studio.ua-cam.com/users/videomkGmGl_nnRU/edit Here is a video to help you start bore cutting: ua-cam.com/video/ULcOb2ssw-c/v-deo.html
If the stump has spring tension, it has potential of taking your saw with it when the tension is released. Wasn’t the case here, but if it had been blown over, use caution
I have done that when cutting multiple stems and trees that are split. A chain and binder can hold them together for you. You have to watch out for the chain as you get close while bucking. A heavy ratchet strap is a good choice, too. Thanks for watching and commenting.
@@DavidN23Skidoo Thanks for your reply! Just yesterday I cut down a strong leaning black cherry and barely had enough room for a horizontal plunge cut. Thought of a chain last night. Thanks for your technique on smaller but dangerous leaners. New subscriber
@@limerind7493 We are always glad to hear from people who watch our videos. Once you are able to do bore cuts, dropping trees is much safer and more enjoyable. Subscribed, can't wait to see you post a saw vid!
When you are cutting firewood, the safe and easy method is to work down from the top, which makes forces less. The main things you have to watch out for are safe, kickback-free cuts, avoiding having your bar pinched, and keeping your chain out of the dirt.
I should show that. Bucking doesn't seem exciting to me. Dropping one is fun and cleaning it up is work. Firewood cutters have a great advantage over loggers because loggers have to detach the big part of the tree from the top and get it out of the woods. They don't have much choice in where to cut, other than deciding where the merchantable part of the tree ends; then they have to buck it there without breaking the log or getting hurt. If the tree is still attached to the stump by the hinge you have a choice of cutting it loose by severing the hinge before or after bucking, depending on the circumstances. Leaving it attached can keep the log from rolling until you are ready to pull it away. On level ground it may not matter. Firewood cutters have the option of going to the top of the tree and cutting small wood first, and working back to the bigger wood. That allows you to work out the stresses from small to big, getting rid of compression and tension dangers a bit at a time. You have to be aware of compression and tension, especially of heavily loaded branches or small trees you have pulled down, so you don't get smacked by a springpole. Generally you cut on the compressed side of the branch or trunk until you see the kerf begin to close, stop and switch to the tensioned side and cut in to sever. On heavily loaded branches you make repeated small cuts on the compressed side to work out the power so it won't hit you. That's a quick rundown of the process. I will record some bucking on a firewood tree and throw a link in to another reply so you will see it. Thank You for watching and commenting.
+Merle Morrison Once you learn how to bore cut it is very easy. The bar wants to migrate toward the top side as you push through in soft-wooded trees like red maple, so you have to be careful if the hinge is to the right of the bar as you bore. I used to punch straight through where I wanted the hinge until I figured out that misjudging could trap my saw. Now I start a bit wide, and aim at an angle away from the hinge. Next I close up to the right thickness on the near end of the hinge, hook the dogs in and rotate the saw to the correct hinge thickness on the other end. The tree stands still when you use this method and that makes life much safer. You have to punch it where you want it on these small ones, but it's not a problem once you do a few.
+DavidN23Skidoo Good work and description, David.... Another cut which works on hard head leaners is the Coos Bay Cut...... two variations on it, both work well.... the hinge wood is left in the shape of a triangle.
Steve: I wish I could see your tree, but I have an answer for you that may be correct for your situation. Here You Go! ua-cam.com/video/OhZDXpANGNE/v-deo.html
@@TheSateef Set it up, be ready to move back quickly when you cut the back strap. Have a helper shoot video to post! Practice the bore cut on a tall stump beforehand if you are not used to doing that. You have to punch it right in one go. It's easy if you have done it a few times. Anxious to see your video!
I'm not going to criticize this method but this branch is nearly horizontal , so it very closely resemble the types of cuts arborists make every day in large numbers in the tops of the tree and I have never seen one do this. Its either a bypass cut or a vee cut and then cut the backside. Either one will drop the branch quickly and safely. . If you are using this method from the ground, your parallel to grain plunge cut seems safer with the last cut on top of the limb. If there was a "barber chair split" it would be moving upward, not toward the operator.
This is aimed at people cutting trees in fence rows, edges, etc., who aren't used to doing things that arborists do. I have seen a lot of accidents with people working on the ground who do not understand what trees can do to them. Match cutting of trees, not using a hinge, is quite dangerous to the cutter. A tree that is cut loose is going where the weight is, and the butt, being unattached, can do unpredictable things. ua-cam.com/video/8qEAvALXG0w/v-deo.html
The tree remains stationary when you set it up with a bore cut, until you cut the backstrap. Borecutting gives you greater control, which is generally safer. You can set up a tree with a hinge and borecut, sit down and have a coffee break, and the tree will stand and wait for you to finish; not that I would do that, but you could! Without borecutting you are racing on the final cut to complete the hinge before the tree moves too far, so you are still cutting while the tree goes into motion. That can make for tense moments.
Make your opening for the hinge to work on the compressed side, and do not cut the back of the tensioned side until you have a hinge established. Cut the tensioned side while you have too much hinge wood and a leaner will make a barberchair.
You can just treat this like a regular branch like if you was climbing and cutting or even bucking a tree you can get away with... i dont think bore cut is worth it here but to each is own
A relative of a relative was just pruning branches for a neighbor when this happened. Processes and safety rules keep your life simple and allow you to sleep in your own bed each night: Thursday Sept. 20th Jim my husband was cutting a broken branch from the last big storm we had & the branch fell on him. He was air cared to University Hospital in Iowa City. It broke his collarbone, 3 ribs, L2 disk (the bone is pushing on the spine & ligaments are tore up pretty bad), also has a collapsed lung. On Monday Sept. 24th they will fuse spine from T11 to L5. Please pray for him.
I personally would have gone above and down just behind the bore cut, that way the lower limb would have fallen and broken away. The danger you have of carrying on with the bore cut towards trunk of the main tree is that if you don't cut it evenally there is a good chance the limb will fall, bark strip and bounce in your direction. Resulting in the limb smashing your teeth out, landing on you as you fall back and then crushing you.
It goes quickly when you cut the backstrap. Continuing out or cutting in perpendicularly will both work. The hinge normally stays together and keeps the tree from doing anything bad. Once in a while you get one of these with a curve like a rocker, and you have to watch those because they will roll up high while in motion. Cutting trees is always a bit risky, but we learn something on every one.
That is big enough that you should be able to do a face, and regular bore cut perpendicular to the stem to create the hinge; pull out and then cut the backstrap. Take pictures for us and make a video or slide show! Stand back when you make that last cut and step back quickly when it pops.
DavidN23Skidoo it should be a pretty straightforward process, my only concern is the ground is extremely uneven to work on, it's kind of facing out but horizontal but at the top of a ditch with other trees around making it difficult to decide a point of attack.
With the back strap, instead of cutting right down on top of your bore cut, move down a little towards the trunk. I understand and see how you mean when you say the motion would be more aggressive. But if its to soft the tree won't break away from the hinge, it's had to judge sometimes as once you start there is no going back. The bonus of the hinge being in place still is that you can now clean up and treat the cut as wind blown tree. I always find that it's annoying when cutting timber when it lays on the ground as you can easily saw through and hit the deck with the saw blunting the cutter teeth on the chain
David, stop plunge cutting each time you cut. A plunge cut is a specialty cut used only when you need to use wedges for back or side leaners (or trees that are known to vertically split/barber chair.) There was no reason for a plunge cut on this branch. A front cut like you did, then a straight back cut leaving a 2” tall hinge would have worked. Or, if you insist on a plunge cut to reduce vertical splitting then a front cut, plunge the middle moving forward to create a controlled hinge, then back until you are about 2” away from going through (leaving a back strap), then remove your saw from the plunge and finish by cutting your back strap from the outside. You have a lot of people view your videos and don’t follow known safe methods. Sorry to be negative. I do appreciate you sharing and your time. Cheers.
The ability to punch through wood instead of cutting from the outside in sets chainsaws apart from axes and crosscut saws. It should be the first cut you learn when you are introduced to using a chainsaw. Making the back cut higher is from the old method where you cut a 45° opening for a face. The hinge breaks when the tree is halfway to the ground and the higher backside supposedly will keep the tree from coming back over the stump. It works sometimes , but don't trust it with your bones if the top loads up and pushes back. A chainsaw allows you to easily make a face 70° to 90° so the tree remains attached to the stump by the hinge. The hinge works best if the stump is level front to back. I don't use the angled release very often, but you will see loggers use it frequently. It allows you to release the tree from a standing position, which means you will make your escape from the stump a little more quickly. It also allows you to pull your saw out if you miscalculated.
Thanks for the video. It makes sense that you want to use a safer procedure and avoid problems. Don't you get tired of answering the same question in the same manner?
Not many read all the previous comments when they watch a video. I used this method several years before I put it out on UA-cam to make sure it works right because I knew people would say it is going to cause splits and barberchairs. It works well, and it will prevent injuries, so negative comments are not a problem. I want people to think ahead and avoid injuries. Anyone who has used a chainsaw will sort through the comments and make a judgment. A person who is connected to me through a relative just got clobbered last week by a widow maker when he was pruning branches. I need to make a video about hazards. Be careful!
DavidN23Skidoo David, you are absolutely right. I just took the Game of Logging course and this is exactly what was explained and shown to us. Before chainsaws were invented, you had to “chase the hinge” from the back because all you had was a cross cut saw. Chainsaws allow for bore/plunge cutting on nearly every scenario. It allows you to get your hinge set up perfectly every time, reducing the odds of a barber chair. It also allows you to release the tree via the backstrap/trigger so you can retreat to your safety location and not stick around on the stump any longer than you need to. I find your videos to be extremely helpful and easy to understand. Thanks!
Why all the complication in cutting a firewood leaner. Base of your tree is the stump, small notch perpendicular to the base, create hinge. Go to the top of the base and cut down. No splinters and less cleanup of the stump you left. I gander the no bore cut because it's too thin. But you seem to be over thinking things a little. KIS
Small diameter trees present the problem of too little room to make your normal cuts, and many of them split or break off wrong. They smack people, jam your saw, or bust your saw. If you can handle the small leaners you will have the skill to handle large ones. I see trees that have broken from incorrect cutting. It is a problem. Sometimes they kill people. I don't want you to get hurt.
You start a bore cut with the lower corner of the bar and then straighten out to the direction you wish to cut. Once the nose is buried you run wide open and guide it with no problem.
@@DavidN23Skidoo The tree can't barber chair when it's 3 feet off the ground. There was way more danger from possible kick back from the plunge cut then there was risk of the tree splitting creating a barber chair. The chainsaw manuals I've seen specifically warn about the dangers of cutting with the tip of the bar. I'm sure that the writer's of those manuals realize that plunge cutting is a method that is an acceptable way to use their saw but I think that it's a method that very rarely needs to be used by the average person using their saw. I believe plunge cutting is sometimes the only safe way to fell a tree but in most of those instances a novice chainsaw user is probably in way over their head to fell the tree that requires using a plunge cut in the first place. The safest/easiest way to cut that tree is cut from the bottom 1/3 of the way and then from the top the rest of the way as if it was a horizontal limb. Many people have no business even picking up a chainsaw and many, many more have no business attempting a plunge cut with a chainsaw. You, obviously, can handle a chainsaw. I bet you are prepared for the possibility of the saw kicking back. The novice user may not realize this added risk. I think that maybe you should have covered these risks if youre going to demonstrate plunge cutting.
@@brianwilson7694: I'm trying to learn how to fell trees and can't believe a small leaner like this can be so controversial.With all due respect to David, your comment seems - pending more thought - to be the best about this video.
It's not "hung." The hinge is holding it to the stump, making the drop less kinetic and less dangerous. Doing a bore cut perpendicular to the stem may have left too little backstrap to hold the tree while finishing your setup cuts.
Not saying this is a bad method but this felling could have easily been achieved without a plunge. A series of quick tension cuts on the under and a wedge on the upper would have dropped this tree quickly without trapping the bar
The underside is under compression, and the upper is tensioned. This technique is a lifesaver for dangerous leaners. The bore cut is what separates chainsaws from older methods using crosscut saws and axes. Learn to use the bore cut and your trees are under much better control, making you safer.
Pretty sure someone just likes plunge cutting. Problem being is slot of people watching don't realize the risk kickback to incorrect plunging so if it isn't necessary don't do it. Cutting a limb running horizontal 3ft from the ground is not the time for over engineering a cut. Unless this was some kind of precious veneer lumber where every inch was cash then why make it more difficult.
Learn new techniques and you will have them when you need them. If you don't learn how to use plunge cuts, you're stuck back in the crosscut era, Before Chainsaws. Our modern cuts with chainsaws make cutting trees safer and easier.
Just checked your channel and your PB Sammich is mighty thin. I suggest Extra Crunchy with real butter on multi-grain bread, plus dill pickles for pizzaz!
Way it tore up the last inch at the end of the angle cut when it broke free, I would think a straight down cut would have kept the remaining stump from tearing apart resulting with a clean intact edge.
The last bit on a leaner is always going to rip apart, but after the bore cut, a cut straight in would be better. You let gravity bring the saw down on this particular tree and you cut less wood. The easiest way is often the better way, and on this project I should have cut in from the top to finish the drop.
It's also that the fibers of the 🌲 are much stronger accross the grain than with the grain. Cutting along the grain increases risk of barberchairing (it's more dangerous) and increases the length of the cut (it's less efficient). Stay safe :)
Leaners are always tricky. Even ground wood created issues with getting the saw pinched. The physics involved in tree cutting creates a lot of weight and force. Nothing more frustrating than getting the saw pinched. Usually from not studying the log before the cut. Great info!!!!
Everyone’s an arm chair critic. Appreciate the information, time and effort here! Take what you can from it and move on. I used this exact method last week on a small leaner, worked great. Thanks for creating!
Good stuff! I tried that today on a leaner and it works a treat.
Great video! Learning a lot from your videos.
It amazes me there is so much to learn. Glad there are examples to follow on youtube.
I wish you were my neighbor 👍
Great demonstration n explanation of your felling of a leaned over tree
I am learning a lot from your videos , thanks for posting. Cheers , John
Thank You!
I second that as well. Thanks from Quebec.
Just what I needed!
Cherry is one of my favorite hardwoods👌👌👌 great video
Very nice. Would like to see the finished end cut, but the idea is to do it safe and not damage the tree, you did both.
Thanks for the video - some additional things for me to consider as I have a lot of small-mid leaners ahead. On this video, I would have liked to see you continue to see your approach to get it off the stump.
I usually start at the top end and work back to the stump. That way I am less likely to get smacked by a limb under pressure. You can cut the stem loose from the stump, but until you have done it a few times you may get pinched when things move. It's usually no problem. Loggers don't have these luxuries. They have to make their bucking cuts while the crown may be loaded up with pressure or tension.
Nice video💪 This is a video i keep in my mind, there was no crack or burst on a heavy leaner👌💪
Thx for the video. This is almost the same situation I have so will give it a go this weekend.
Shoot some vid and show us how it goes!
This is awesome. Thank you for sharing. I'm a wife-to-be that wants to helps clear lanes for our hunting property. I have chain saw experience, but not very efficient. This helps. Thank you.
truebluesam.blogspot.com/2009/03/burning-desire.html
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Watch the entire BC Faller Training Standard series. You'll see how the pros do it and learn a lot. ua-cam.com/video/dw1HaW1t79U/v-deo.html
Nice work. Thanks for the demo
Thanks for watching!
Another unhappy commenter: "Donald Sheppard commented: "There's no reason to be doing all this fancy cutting, it's giving the beginners way too many options on cutting a small leaner" and "Donald Sheppard commented: "Plunge cuts for beginners on nothing but a recipe for disaster with a kick back into their face" Plunge Cutting, or Bore Cutting is the first cut you learn in an up-to-date chainsaw class. Bore cutting is the thing that allows us to advance beyond the methods used with axe and crosscut saws. Learn to start with the bottom, attack corner, of the bar and guide the saw with your throttle open, and you can do wonderful surgery on the tree so you are in control until you turn it loose.
Don't worry about commenters: what you showed is safe and sound.
@@thegoodearth7 Thank You!
this is beautifully simple
So, first off, great idea by doing the diagonal plunge cut. That is something I hadn't thought about, and I will use that method. With the benefit of hindsight though, as you said the face cut didn't close, therefore leaving the hinge intact. So to fix that as you probably already know, cut a more acute, or narrow wedge, so it will close and break the hinge. Also, if you cut the plunge cut to the left, or away from the tree trunk, it wouldn't leave that ledge to hang up on the stump. Having said that, I would have never thought of that before seeing your results first. Thanks for the diagonal plunge cut Idea, it's genius!
I disassemble little ones like this from the top down, and having the hinge hold it steady is not a problem. I often cut the hinge loose after the last firewood cut. On straight, balanced trees, the open face keeps the tree attached to the stump so the cutter has a safer getaway. There is a lot of history in the way we fall trees. The open face method is pretty recent; worked out by Soren Eriksson in the 1960's. Mr. Eriksson showed us that a chainsaw can make cuts that a crosscut saw cannot. The first skill you learn in a Game Of Logging class is borecutting. It is a life changer!
This is an unusual technique that this fellow likes. It is nothing like any professional would ever allow a nubie to use or agree is safe. Please view some of the many professional lumberjacks or arborists to learn the acceptable and reasonably safe tried and true methods of conducting what can be a very dangerous even lethal activity. It really doesn't matter how large or crooked the tree is that mames or kills you and they all have that potential.
Been there. They teach to repeatedly shave the compressed side, a tiring and time consuming process. I wanted a better way that leaves the cutter in control while keeping the stem connected to the stump. The key skill is being able to place your bore cut where you want it. I have placed that cut in the stump and in the stem, and both work well. Landowners get a lot of funky edge trees so this is an important skill. Thank You for watching and commenting. PS You are correct! Little trees can mess you up! Subscribed!
No cracking ! Good job.
Good job...Thanks for the tutorial
You're welcome
I really like it! I have some creek bank leaners that I'll be trying that on
Shoot some vid and share with us! Subscribed!
Thanks, I have many of these to take care of!
Glad to help!
Interesting method ty ...
Try cutting that strap on angle/ if it does split it won't pinch ur bar...
To be safe wrap and tie rope several times left of the notch. It will prevent the split.
What works for me is starting with a vertical cut from underneath. Then I start a topside 45 from about 8 inches away, nearer the trunk. I make that 45, cutting toward my vertical undercut--away from trunk. When the 45 is close enough the limb slow drops. I find this very effective.
I delimb frequently with a pole saw and use snap-cut for that. I piece them back to take weight off and that type of cut works well. No hinge, though, just a quick disconnect and drop.
That was ... like ... perfect!
Thank You!
Great video
Thank You for watching and for commenting!
Very good video. Play it on double speed if you're as impatient as me
Great technique
Thank You for visiting!
Fantastic piece of information. Terrible camera angels. But hey, practice makes perfect. Try top angels, or from the other side maybe. :)
Shooting video on yourself is always a challenge while running a saw. I have to watch the tree and the saw, and hope that the camera is set up to show the action. I've been setting up two cameras lately and that seems to be an improvement.
What is the benefit of plunging and cutting out rather than Vee'ing the bottom and just cutting straight down from the top, outside to inside?
+themadmailler Leaners will go into motion before the hinge is thin enough to bend, and the tree will split lengthwise, making a barber chair. I see them regularly in timber, and have seen ones that were the cause of a fatality. You use the bore cut to make the hinge a safe thickness, then you cut the tree loose. Once you learn to set up the hinge with a bore cut you will not want to do it the old fashioned way, which was used when folks cut trees with axes and crosscut saws.
Interesting. Thanks! I like your timber felling videos, they help when i'm cutting off-camber trees that i'm usually uneasy about.
What would likely happen if you chose to bore in and create the hinge along the triangle's other vertical side? (Cutting away from the base of the tree)
I have done it both ways, and they both work fine. Making the cuts above the stump makes people nervous; they think that method will allow the tree to split. Cutting below is no problem in most cases and if it makes you feel safer, that's OK. If something went wrong and your saw became pinched, it should be easier to deal with in the stump than above the hinge. I very seldom get pinched since learning how to bore cut and how to evaluate the weight and lean of every tree I cut.
I'm trying to educate myself on the various safety issues of bringing down trees with a chainsaw.
(I've taken down many already in my back woods but I'm always looking to increase my knowledge base).
But when I heard...."It's the first time I've tried this, let's see how it goes", I bailed.
But kudos to you for putting this video out there to show what you're doing.
It works and will prevent a barberchair. That is a huge safety advantage. Thanks for watching and commenting!
I cut a leaner that went down so quick, I didnt have time to blink. which I guess is the traditional method, get it done quick. This appeared to work better. interesting.
just a thought, but could it possibly damage the stump area of the tree on the top side by tearing too much off? perhaps a remedy to this might be to do a 2nd plunge cut at the stump end of the 1st (angled) plunge, but this time cut straight up through, rather than continuing the angle. it might also be a bit tidier. im not a fan of the "inline" plunge cut where its followed by cutting from the back. it just seems risky to me. what you did in this video looked very controlled and safe though it leaves a strange looking stump, but could possibly be modified as per above to leave a cleaner stump. excellent video though. First time I've seen this on UA-cam.
Hi David - thanks for a great tutorial - I have a very similar leaner, and this was the perfect thing to watch - one question. after you make the plunge cut, you say that for the final cut you have the options of going back in to the plunge slot and cutting out from there at the same angle (which is what you choose to do) or to cut down vertically from the top to connect to the plunge cut slot. This second option seems a lot simpler to me, I was just wondering why you chose to do it the way you did? Thanks again. malcolm
I think it was curiosity. Continuing out on the angle took longer and gives no advantage for escape. I normally pull out after the setup and finish by cutting perpendicular to the stem. When cutting with the bottom of the bar to finish you are already tensed backwards for escape, and fractions of seconds are often critical. Darn good question, and one that makes us think!
Makes sense - thanks again David
@@DavidN23Skidoo
@@malcolmpayne5991 post a video of your leaner if possible. Thanks for commenting!
Ive cut bigger widow maker trees thicker then that with the tinyest electric polesaw they make all from a safe 15 feet away. Thats the best way to cut somthing leaning thats under 10 or 12 inchs
I do the exact same thing. I often make my face and back cuts with my 350 and finish with a polesaw if it looks shady. I don’t care what people say. Having a 10’ head start is fine by me.
I'm far from a pro, but just don't see how a V cut at the bottom and then a slow gradual vertical cut from the top would cause a problem. Once you detect the slightest movement you pull out and exit. Once the end falls on the ground you can chunk it up working from the outward end and back towards the cut where you can finish up. Where am I wrong? I'm a newbie and want to learn easy/safe/uncomplicated cuts and don't care how long they take to execute. Bore cutting seems less forgiving to error/miscalculation.
Boring a stem to establish a hinge before you turn the tree loose neutralizes the risk of the stem splitting. That is a critical safety issue. Bore cutting should be the first cut you learn so you can always be in control of your hinge thickness, and control when your tree goes into motion. Have a look at this video for discussion of avoiding impact injuries: studio.ua-cam.com/users/videomkGmGl_nnRU/edit Here is a video to help you start bore cutting: ua-cam.com/video/ULcOb2ssw-c/v-deo.html
Thank you!!
Nice
If the stump has spring tension, it has potential of taking your saw with it when the tension is released. Wasn’t the case here, but if it had been blown over, use caution
Would using a chain around the tree about 12" up from the cut prevent any splitting or barber chairing?
I have done that when cutting multiple stems and trees that are split. A chain and binder can hold them together for you. You have to watch out for the chain as you get close while bucking. A heavy ratchet strap is a good choice, too. Thanks for watching and commenting.
@@DavidN23Skidoo Thanks for your reply! Just yesterday I cut down a strong leaning black cherry and barely had enough room for a horizontal plunge cut. Thought of a chain last night. Thanks for your technique on smaller but dangerous leaners. New subscriber
@@limerind7493 We are always glad to hear from people who watch our videos. Once you are able to do bore cuts, dropping trees is much safer and more enjoyable. Subscribed, can't wait to see you post a saw vid!
how did you get the branch off the stump?
When you are cutting firewood, the safe and easy method is to work down from the top, which makes forces less. The main things you have to watch out for are safe, kickback-free cuts, avoiding having your bar pinched, and keeping your chain out of the dirt.
yeah that guy was thinking safely... but i trust the idea to complete a safe hinge... i tried it on a bunch of dying red an blue gum! it works well..
David, would you explain how to finish this? The branch is still attached and I'd be standing there asking, "Duh, now what?"
I should show that. Bucking doesn't seem exciting to me. Dropping one is fun and cleaning it up is work. Firewood cutters have a great advantage over loggers because loggers have to detach the big part of the tree from the top and get it out of the woods. They don't have much choice in where to cut, other than deciding where the merchantable part of the tree ends; then they have to buck it there without breaking the log or getting hurt. If the tree is still attached to the stump by the hinge you have a choice of cutting it loose by severing the hinge before or after bucking, depending on the circumstances. Leaving it attached can keep the log from rolling until you are ready to pull it away. On level ground it may not matter.
Firewood cutters have the option of going to the top of the tree and cutting small wood first, and working back to the bigger wood. That allows you to work out the stresses from small to big, getting rid of compression and tension dangers a bit at a time. You have to be aware of compression and tension, especially of heavily loaded branches or small trees you have pulled down, so you don't get smacked by a springpole. Generally you cut on the compressed side of the branch or trunk until you see the kerf begin to close, stop and switch to the tensioned side and cut in to sever. On heavily loaded branches you make repeated small cuts on the compressed side to work out the power so it won't hit you. That's a quick rundown of the process. I will record some bucking on a firewood tree and throw a link in to another reply so you will see it. Thank You for watching and commenting.
@@DavidN23Skidoo thank you! Appreciate what you do!
All that and it's still in the tree?
How tricky is it to cut the hinge?
+Merle Morrison Once you learn how to bore cut it is very easy. The bar wants to migrate toward the top side as you push through in soft-wooded trees like red maple, so you have to be careful if the hinge is to the right of the bar as you bore. I used to punch straight through where I wanted the hinge until I figured out that misjudging could trap my saw. Now I start a bit wide, and aim at an angle away from the hinge. Next I close up to the right thickness on the near end of the hinge, hook the dogs in and rotate the saw to the correct hinge thickness on the other end. The tree stands still when you use this method and that makes life much safer. You have to punch it where you want it on these small ones, but it's not a problem once you do a few.
+DavidN23Skidoo Good work and description, David.... Another cut which works on hard head leaners is the Coos Bay Cut...... two variations on it, both work well.... the hinge wood is left in the shape of a triangle.
i have 14" 45 degree leaner, red oak i think, would you use the same technique? thanks
Steve: I wish I could see your tree, but I have an answer for you that may be correct for your situation. Here You Go! ua-cam.com/video/OhZDXpANGNE/v-deo.html
@@DavidN23Skidoo thanks, that's exactly my situation
@@TheSateef Set it up, be ready to move back quickly when you cut the back strap. Have a helper shoot video to post! Practice the bore cut on a tall stump beforehand if you are not used to doing that. You have to punch it right in one go. It's easy if you have done it a few times. Anxious to see your video!
I'm not going to criticize this method but this branch is nearly horizontal , so it very closely resemble the types of cuts arborists make every day in large numbers in the tops of the tree and I have never seen one do this. Its either a bypass cut or a vee cut and then cut the backside. Either one will drop the branch quickly and safely. . If you are using this method from the ground, your parallel to grain plunge cut seems safer with the last cut on top of the limb. If there was a "barber chair split" it would be moving upward, not toward the operator.
This is aimed at people cutting trees in fence rows, edges, etc., who aren't used to doing things that arborists do. I have seen a lot of accidents with people working on the ground who do not understand what trees can do to them. Match cutting of trees, not using a hinge, is quite dangerous to the cutter. A tree that is cut loose is going where the weight is, and the butt, being unattached, can do unpredictable things. ua-cam.com/video/8qEAvALXG0w/v-deo.html
Why not just one cut (1/3) at the bottom, followed by a (2/3 cut) on top, 1~2" up higher ?
The tree remains stationary when you set it up with a bore cut, until you cut the backstrap. Borecutting gives you greater control, which is generally safer. You can set up a tree with a hinge and borecut, sit down and have a coffee break, and the tree will stand and wait for you to finish; not that I would do that, but you could! Without borecutting you are racing on the final cut to complete the hinge before the tree moves too far, so you are still cutting while the tree goes into motion. That can make for tense moments.
I could have had two cups of coffee while you repeated yourself.
If bottom cut closes then tree will barber chair (split) that's why u wide bottom cut (face cut)
I cut two wedges then slowly cut through is that bad ?
Make your opening for the hinge to work on the compressed side, and do not cut the back of the tensioned side until you have a hinge established. Cut the tensioned side while you have too much hinge wood and a leaner will make a barberchair.
You can just treat this like a regular branch like if you was climbing and cutting or even bucking a tree you can get away with... i dont think bore cut is worth it here but to each is own
Fair enough, but now you know how to do it just in case you need it! Thanks for watching and commenting!
Chain seems a little dull.
Thanks, I will take a look at it!
a big overcomplication
A relative of a relative was just pruning branches for a neighbor when this happened. Processes and safety rules keep your life simple and allow you to sleep in your own bed each night: Thursday Sept. 20th Jim my husband was cutting a broken branch from the last big storm we had & the branch fell on him. He was air cared to University Hospital in Iowa City. It broke his collarbone, 3 ribs, L2 disk (the bone is pushing on the spine & ligaments are tore up pretty bad), also has a collapsed lung.
On Monday Sept. 24th they will fuse spine from T11 to L5. Please pray for him.
@@DavidN23Skidoo the LORD have mercy
your over thinking it
How was this better than a snap cut you would use on any big limb? A snap cut would have dropped the stem to the ground.
It controls the tree so it goes when you want it to go, and you don't get hurt. Watch this: ua-cam.com/video/BGm6fP_xp5M/v-deo.html
I personally would have gone above and down just behind the bore cut, that way the lower limb would have fallen and broken away. The danger you have of carrying on with the bore cut towards trunk of the main tree is that if you don't cut it evenally there is a good chance the limb will fall, bark strip and bounce in your direction. Resulting in the limb smashing your teeth out, landing on you as you fall back and then crushing you.
It goes quickly when you cut the backstrap. Continuing out or cutting in perpendicularly will both work. The hinge normally stays together and keeps the tree from doing anything bad. Once in a while you get one of these with a curve like a rocker, and you have to watch those because they will roll up high while in motion. Cutting trees is always a bit risky, but we learn something on every one.
DavidN23Skidoo I'm feeling a horizontal leaner in a couple of weeks. It's got about 14 inch diameter
That is big enough that you should be able to do a face, and regular bore cut perpendicular to the stem to create the hinge; pull out and then cut the backstrap. Take pictures for us and make a video or slide show! Stand back when you make that last cut and step back quickly when it pops.
DavidN23Skidoo it should be a pretty straightforward process, my only concern is the ground is extremely uneven to work on, it's kind of facing out but horizontal but at the top of a ditch with other trees around making it difficult to decide a point of attack.
With the back strap, instead of cutting right down on top of your bore cut, move down a little towards the trunk. I understand and see how you mean when you say the motion would be more aggressive. But if its to soft the tree won't break away from the hinge, it's had to judge sometimes as once you start there is no going back. The bonus of the hinge being in place still is that you can now clean up and treat the cut as wind blown tree. I always find that it's annoying when cutting timber when it lays on the ground as you can easily saw through and hit the deck with the saw blunting the cutter teeth on the chain
David, stop plunge cutting each time you cut. A plunge cut is a specialty cut used only when you need to use wedges for back or side leaners (or trees that are known to vertically split/barber chair.) There was no reason for a plunge cut on this branch. A front cut like you did, then a straight back cut leaving a 2” tall hinge would have worked. Or, if you insist on a plunge cut to reduce vertical splitting then a front cut, plunge the middle moving forward to create a controlled hinge, then back until you are about 2” away from going through (leaving a back strap), then remove your saw from the plunge and finish by cutting your back strap from the outside. You have a lot of people view your videos and don’t follow known safe methods. Sorry to be negative. I do appreciate you sharing and your time. Cheers.
The ability to punch through wood instead of cutting from the outside in sets chainsaws apart from axes and crosscut saws. It should be the first cut you learn when you are introduced to using a chainsaw. Making the back cut higher is from the old method where you cut a 45° opening for a face. The hinge breaks when the tree is halfway to the ground and the higher backside supposedly will keep the tree from coming back over the stump. It works sometimes , but don't trust it with your bones if the top loads up and pushes back. A chainsaw allows you to easily make a face 70° to 90° so the tree remains attached to the stump by the hinge. The hinge works best if the stump is level front to back. I don't use the angled release very often, but you will see loggers use it frequently. It allows you to release the tree from a standing position, which means you will make your escape from the stump a little more quickly. It also allows you to pull your saw out if you miscalculated.
Thanks for the video. It makes sense that you want to use a safer procedure and avoid problems. Don't you get tired of answering the same question in the same manner?
Not many read all the previous comments when they watch a video. I used this method several years before I put it out on UA-cam to make sure it works right because I knew people would say it is going to cause splits and barberchairs. It works well, and it will prevent injuries, so negative comments are not a problem. I want people to think ahead and avoid injuries. Anyone who has used a chainsaw will sort through the comments and make a judgment. A person who is connected to me through a relative just got clobbered last week by a widow maker when he was pruning branches. I need to make a video about hazards. Be careful!
DavidN23Skidoo David, you are absolutely right. I just took the Game of Logging course and this is exactly what was explained and shown to us. Before chainsaws were invented, you had to “chase the hinge” from the back because all you had was a cross cut saw. Chainsaws allow for bore/plunge cutting on nearly every scenario. It allows you to get your hinge set up perfectly every time, reducing the odds of a barber chair. It also allows you to release the tree via the backstrap/trigger so you can retreat to your safety location and not stick around on the stump any longer than you need to. I find your videos to be extremely helpful and easy to understand. Thanks!
Oh well
Why all the complication in cutting a firewood leaner. Base of your tree is the stump, small notch perpendicular to the base, create hinge. Go to the top of the base and cut down. No splinters and less cleanup of the stump you left. I gander the no bore cut because it's too thin. But you seem to be over thinking things a little. KIS
Small diameter trees present the problem of too little room to make your normal cuts, and many of them split or break off wrong. They smack people, jam your saw, or bust your saw. If you can handle the small leaners you will have the skill to handle large ones. I see trees that have broken from incorrect cutting. It is a problem. Sometimes they kill people. I don't want you to get hurt.
I had one of those barber chair and scare the hell out of me doing it the way you describe. This video is better in my opinion.
I thought you weren't supposed to have the end of your bar make contact with wood because it might STOP the chain and then KICKBACK occurs?
You start a bore cut with the lower corner of the bar and then straighten out to the direction you wish to cut. Once the nose is buried you run wide open and guide it with no problem.
@@DavidN23Skidoo OH Lord....that is too technically above my skill level!
“...Gawindo...”
Way too much to cut that. A small notch, and a straight down cut. Done.
You have never seen a tree split and hit a body.
@@DavidN23Skidoo The tree can't barber chair when it's 3 feet off the ground. There was way more danger from possible kick back from the plunge cut then there was risk of the tree splitting creating a barber chair. The chainsaw manuals I've seen specifically warn about the dangers of cutting with the tip of the bar. I'm sure that the writer's of those manuals realize that plunge cutting is a method that is an acceptable way to use their saw but I think that it's a method that very rarely needs to be used by the average person using their saw. I believe plunge cutting is sometimes the only safe way to fell a tree but in most of those instances a novice chainsaw user is probably in way over their head to fell the tree that requires using a plunge cut in the first place. The safest/easiest way to cut that tree is cut from the bottom 1/3 of the way and then from the top the rest of the way as if it was a horizontal limb. Many people have no business even picking up a chainsaw and many, many more have no business attempting a plunge cut with a chainsaw. You, obviously, can handle a chainsaw. I bet you are prepared for the possibility of the saw kicking back. The novice user may not realize this added risk. I think that maybe you should have covered these risks if youre going to demonstrate plunge cutting.
@@brianwilson7694: I'm trying to learn how to fell trees and can't believe a small leaner like this can be so controversial.With all due respect to David, your comment seems - pending more thought - to be the best about this video.
If you'd cut straight up, it would've fallen to the ground, not hung there like a mini widow maker.
It's not "hung." The hinge is holding it to the stump, making the drop less kinetic and less dangerous. Doing a bore cut perpendicular to the stem may have left too little backstrap to hold the tree while finishing your setup cuts.
Not saying this is a bad method but this felling could have easily been achieved without a plunge. A series of quick tension cuts on the under and a wedge on the upper would have dropped this tree quickly without trapping the bar
The underside is under compression, and the upper is tensioned. This technique is a lifesaver for dangerous leaners. The bore cut is what separates chainsaws from older methods using crosscut saws and axes. Learn to use the bore cut and your trees are under much better control, making you safer.
Use a Milwaukee M18 Fuel brushless sawzall can take down this tooth pick in a minute. LOL!
Pretty sure someone just likes plunge cutting. Problem being is slot of people watching don't realize the risk kickback to incorrect plunging so if it isn't necessary don't do it. Cutting a limb running horizontal 3ft from the ground is not the time for over engineering a cut. Unless this was some kind of precious veneer lumber where every inch was cash then why make it more difficult.
Learn new techniques and you will have them when you need them. If you don't learn how to use plunge cuts, you're stuck back in the crosscut era, Before Chainsaws. Our modern cuts with chainsaws make cutting trees safer and easier.
"that went realy well" .... while his three hangs mid air .... OMG !
cfen matisse a tree that remains attached to the stump cannot jump back at you. That is why a face cut of 70 to 90 degrees is used.
Why to much bla bla bla.
Just checked your channel and your PB Sammich is mighty thin. I suggest Extra Crunchy with real butter on multi-grain bread, plus dill pickles for pizzaz!
@@DavidN23Skidoo ok thanks
yeah, ok, but man, why do you have to repeat the same thing 15 times? we get it. move on.
Way it tore up the last inch at the end of the angle cut when it broke free, I would think a straight down cut would have kept the remaining stump from tearing apart resulting with a clean intact edge.
The last bit on a leaner is always going to rip apart, but after the bore cut, a cut straight in would be better. You let gravity bring the saw down on this particular tree and you cut less wood. The easiest way is often the better way, and on this project I should have cut in from the top to finish the drop.
It's also that the fibers of the 🌲 are much stronger accross the grain than with the grain. Cutting along the grain increases risk of barberchairing (it's more dangerous) and increases the length of the cut (it's less efficient). Stay safe :)