We had a 1990 164 2.0 ts for 20 years and drove with it 640.000km (yeap you read right). We took care of her and she took care of the family. Never had an engine overhaul or a serious issue or a brake down. We just fully serviced the car every 10.000km since new and the only issues we had was 1 climate motor pump, 1 wheel hydrolic pump, and 2 window switches. Fantastic car in every way possible. Unfortunately it was time to move on to a more modern car but couldn't let her go since she is rust free. So she is still in the garage, just sitting since the end of 2010. Hopefully one day, I ll get her out again..
I remember an ex-work colleague acquiring one of these back in the mid to late 90s, and taking me out for a spin to show it off. My own car at the time was a mk3 1.4 Fiesta, and I remember the Alfa feeling like a total rocketship in comparison, and I loved the quirky Italian interior. Effortless overtakes on A roads, and travelling at extremely naughty speeds on the motorway. Fond memories from a quarter of a century ago!
A good friend of mine got a brand new and just introduced 164 3.0 V6 as a loaner while his Alfa Sprint was in for service. He took me and a couple of other guys for a spin and got the car up to 180 kph on a stretch of city motorway (Lyngbyvejen in Copenhagen) where the speed limit is 90 kph. It was early afternoon, so the road was by no means empty. The acceleration and sound up to 180 kph was amazing.
Oh my absolute God, what a beautiful machine. I had the pleasure of driving the lancia 8.32 once, in Leamington spa with left hand drive a dog leg first. Fun....it's pronounced tamer btw. My grandpa had a 155 with the twinspark and I learnt to drive in a 147 2.0 twinspark, obviously not the V6 but how have the mighty forgotten what we wanted. Fabulous, memorable cars. As a youth a then spent many a happy mile in a 33 1.5ie because I could insure it....none of us ever actually broke down either. Quite reliable when regularly Given beans.
As you say Absolutely Glorious. For the late 80s early 90s the 164 was well built, beautifully styled, the interior was gorgeous and the Busso engine was wonderful. Remember at the time we had the Volvo 760, Rover 827, Vauxhall Senator, Ford Granada, Renault Safrane, Peugeot 605, Nissan Maxima, Toyota Camry V6, Honda Legend. Of these the Volvo, Vauxhall, Toyota and Honda had the good build. The Rover, Peugeot, and Nissan had great styling. The Rover and the Granada, Safrane and Honda had gorgeous interiors. All had strong engines but the only one approaching the Busso was the 2.7 shared by Honda and Rover. The Senator, Granada, Safrane and 605 had great chassis but again, all inferior to the 164. The 164 had the whole package. Ideally, the executive would own a BMW 530i for work and a 164 Cloverleaf 🍀 for enjoyment and leisure.
Wonderfull video. I have had 3 164,s . All the later facelift 24v cat versions. The earlier 164,s had a better exhaust note because of not having a cat. I did not know you have had a 164. You have done them justice in this video. Thanks.
The design of the 164 is criminally overlooked - it's an "E Segment", theoretically a calm and collected executive cruiser and yet, it looks like it's wanting to go 2000kph even when it's parked; It's like it was stuck in "super pursuit mode" from an episode of Knightrider. Compared to the German competition of the time, it looks 10 years younger and still, in a way, retro-futuristic: tell me that design wouldn't fit a cyberpunk movie/game to absolute perfection...
My first job when I left school was working in a local Alfa Romeo dealership in the parts department. I had to learn motor trade Italian as all the microfiche weren’t in English. I remember specifically on the 164 fiche there being multiple options of part numbers for doors and windows. There were options tagged as ‘Mafia’ . Yes , you could actually order reinforced body panels and bullet proof glass for the Italian Mafioso. Love it 😂
Very 80s, planar, boxy but still about as stunningly beautiful as a saloon gets. Wonderful details inside and out. I owned the two litre version of its successor - the 166.
This is my dream car. One of the best of era, in fact I would go so far as to say one of the best looking cars of the 20th century. Just gorgeous. The epitome of Italian wedge design.
Many years ago I had a 164 V6 Lusso as well. Got it serviced by a mobile mechanic recommended by the owners club. He used to be a mechanic for the Alfa touring car team and was burrrrilliant! He advised that although the rev limit was about 7,000rpm, they were safely good for 8,500rpm. I don't know what he did, adjust or change something, but hearing the Busso at 8,000rpm!!! I will remember that sound to the day I die. And I never drove from Leeds to Tunbridge Wells, all of 200 miles in two hours. That absolutely never happened.
This is a 12 valve cloverleaf quoted as 210 bhp , tweeked valve timing over the standard 188 bhp model .However the later 24 valve model in cloverleaf form was quoted as 230 bhp. Lovely cars.
The 12valve cloverleaf engine is the finest of all the bussos. High lift cams plenty low down torque and a real screamer Better than the 24 valve That's a stunner
The 3 litre Alfa engine is one of the best out there. It was awesome in the 75, but the 164 wasn’t too bad either. There’s not many of any of the cars left that were based on this platform.
Ah, the perfect review, I just wish it had been my 164 you were driving, I have a 12V Lusso manual (a rolling restoration) with seats off a later 24V cloverleaf (like the ones in your review car only perforated and with some extra buttons to adjust the front and back of the seat height individually. Its just the best thing ever, that 12V Busso noise is glorious. Your review car is a 12V model Ian, you can tell as it has a distributor, exposed HT leads and the old style dash, along with the better soundtrack. Fuel economy can be pretty brilliant on these actually, mine regularly gets me about 30MPG, granted the cloverleaf has shorter gearing. Yes they are very reliable for how exotic they are, and nothing quite drive like them, i'll never sell mine, it means more to me than just a car. They are top quality, Galvanised so they dont rust and very thoroughly tested as they were developed. The only bits that do seem to let go on these are the bits with a Bosch stamp on them. The torque steer seems excessive on that car, they do have a torque steering tendancy, but mine just pulls to the right firmly, its very easy to mitigate, I think it must have some issues with the suspension geometry or the wheel alignment, I don't think its the Diff, i have a Q2 LSD in my other Alfa (A 147 GTA and it does not wander like that). Keep up these brilliant reviews HubNut!
Alfa Romeo made two of the most awesome engines for sound and performance, the Busso V6 and the classic twin cam all alloy four that was designed in the fifties. Never owned a Busso and that is a real regret, but had two with the classic four, both with Dellorto carbs (76 Alfetta 1.8 sedan and 81 GTV 2.0) and loved both of them. Maybe you could find one of those to test that hasn’t succumbed to tin worm, a tall order in the UK, I know. You will probably hate the gear change, it takes a lot of getting used to, but being rear wheel drive through a transaxle, you will not have to worry about torque steer!
We need a ‘Power More is Magnificent’ T shirt now! Lovely car. Always had a soft spot for Alfas, had a GT back in the 2000s. I just love the Italian approach to pretty much everything really; cars, art, architecture, food, coffee, life.
THE best looking and sounding car ever to grace HubNut. Have always been one of my favourite cars. The blocky styling and that awesome centre console have always been the main appeal, and the sound of the Busso is the absolute cherry on top. Fabulous video Ian.
I know I'm flying in the face of popular opinion, but I'm just not seeing the appeal of this Alfa (at least in terms of owning one). Then again, cars have always been subjective ever since we stopped making them be purely about transportation.
That Busso engine is intoxicating, and looks as good as it sounds! My lazy Lexus V6 sounds like a sewing machine in comparison. Loved that video, many thanks!
I went car shopping with my late Father. He needed a new car, we looked at the v6 164 , he had to have an automatic. Also a 75. We also looked at a lancia thema . And a Saab 9000, and 900.he had always had Citroen's and fancied a change. He really wanted a 900 3 door turbo but due to an accident he struggled with a tight foot well , the answer was to of ordered it with a manual break peddle. He really liked the 75 too. Personal ide of had the lancia, the one we drove was excellent, ha green ish gray with a dark green Alcantara and some kind of satin wood, very classy and extremely comfortable... He chose the 9000, in CDS trim, dark gray with gray leather.... He regretted every moment of ownership, it often broke down leaving him stranded. The dealer was really not good, although he did find one nearer our home that was truly excellent... One day while cleaning a couple of years later he discovered rust in the boot to wing seem. He lost his patience Saab UK did not want to know, just out of warranty... He traded it in on a Citroen XM TD executive? He kept it covering nearly 300 k in it all it needed was a new gearbox and servicing.... Excellent car...
An unreliable saab 9000, with bad dealer experience? Both are almost unheard of, I can only apologise for his experience. I work closely with saab and have good connections to the main dealers left in the country and I guess the surviving ones were the best ones... But I've never really heard of any issues. And in my experience... 9000 was always a very reliable car, even 30 years on, it still can be
I own and drive a Saab 9000 since 3 years. It's indeed a very reliable car and the build quality is top notch. I love it to death! Never heard any bad stories of 9000 ownership before, truly shocked me reading the comment above. I also have quite a few friends who owns/owned a 9000 and they adore them, never any big issues, high milages on the clock and still running as smooth as ever @@ollialbone
Oil pressure gauge AND a voltage gauge!? Anyone who watches Motorweek Retro Reviews knows how ecstatic John Davis would be with this car just for having those! 😉
"Forget power: Less is more": 😂 You´re absolutely right, it´s a high quality car with a gorgeous engine. About 20 years ago I bought a new smaller Alfa, which was probably the worst car I ever drove. So after less than one year I gave it back to the dealer in exchange for a used 164. Huge difference: Very satisfying car, no problems at all. Very relaxing at long distance drives.
The best looking of the Saab , fiat., lancia , alfa foursome . I ran a lancia thema for a while and it’s dashboard was like a disco. Still enjoyed it though. .
This is a work of Art, soo much more than meets the casual tester. The finest door latch design ever-pincer twin latching and on pillar the latch is rubber damped, the doors shut nicer than German.
I, too, once owned a 164 Lusso. Mine was an early 12V manual from a time when they still fitted the electric rear seats (yes, rear). It didn't surprise me it was reliable because a large chunk of the stuff under the bonnet was made by Bosch (this at a time when German stuff was actually quality). I was once going up a wet hill and managed to get a bit of wheelspin when changing into fifth - even the 12 valvers could be lively in the wet. I miss that car.
I'm glad to see people appreciating this car because it indeed is very underrated especially where I live. Also, I have one myself a 2.0 v6 turbo, but currently, it's only a project car, can't wait for the day it finally lives once again and I can hear/enjoy that italian engine noise.
I had one of these - almost identical spec sans the tacky (to my eyes) rear spoiler. Had an Ansa exhaust and upgraded 17" 5 spoke alloys but watching the video brought back wonderful memories. Had 3 other 164s, all 3.0 manuals and loved them but the QV was one of my all time favourite cars. Decent tyres helped tame the torque steer which wasn't anything like as bad as you experienced. If it had a Q2 dif it shouldn't be an issue so there's something amiss there. I had a 166, GTV V6 and finally a GT 3.2 and fitted it with a Quaife dif - with this grip was better in the wet than without it in the dry! Certainly solved the torque steer. Going back to the 164 QV, I preferred the 12v to the facelifted 24v both to look at and drive. A hugely underrated car - thanks for reminding me 🍀🇨🇮🏁😊😷
I remember these as new cars, as I worked for three Alfa dealers. The Cloverleaf with that awful bodykit (sorry, it's just nasty) was thankfully quite rare - the standard 164 was very elegant. That's a 12v car. The autos had limiting stops on the steering rack as the gearbox was so big, resulting in a huge turning circle! The 2.0 Twin Spark was very popular - an excellent car, but not quite the same. The later facelift car was a beautiful thing with the old dated bits sorted out, especially in a dark colour. The 24v V6 had cam belt problems early on (not enough 'wrap around' the inner pulleys) and whilst it had more power, I don't think it was as nice as the 12v. 164's were galvanised and just didn't rust. The rear suspension crossmember does though. Overall they were a robust reliable car with the usual small Alfa niggles. A pity so few survived.
Ian Black cat was an omen, that the devil was chasing you, there was too much fun being had on this drive. Never thought I'd hear you say power less is more (but a little more is power & fun).
My 166 Lusso needs a heater matrix repair and I've been debating whether it's really worth doing. It's a big job and the sensible, economic, rational part of me has been getting used to the idea that it's time to let it go ..... and then you go and make this video and remind me just why I love it.
I always liked these. Lovely, handsome cars. Very well-built. When current, they were actually quite under-rated, and always good value as used cars. In the early '90s, the What Car? long-term fleet were running an F-plate 164 3.0 V6 Lusso in that lovely dark turquoise. The car was 3 years old and had covered 110,000 miles at the time of its final summary in late 1992. It surprised them, as nothing at all went wrong with it, and it still looked fresh, even the engine was like new. Of course, this was back when new-car magazines were photographing engine compartments during road tests.
Wonderful, wonderful cars. I used to work for Alfa when they were new, & used to have to collect them from the docks & bring them back to the dealership in London, what a job that was! I once got caught by an early speed camera on the A12 doing 143mph in a Cloverleaf (covered in wax, only essential fuses fitted, so couldn't open windows/move mirrors etc), very very naughty, but difficult not to do now & then when they beg you for more all the time your honour! 75`s were also a lot of fun! (the 33`s were too, obviously, but they weren't selling as well at the time, & I never felt fully comfortable driving the LHD Spiders). I also had a couple of old 2.0 164`s, both reliable, speedo`s & occasionally oil pressure gauges aside, (+ A/C digi displays if fitted), the wiper thing is worn linkages (quite common). The cast alloy door mirror bases tend to crack at 15 years or so, causing them to drop off. Nothing serious enough to detract from the joy of driving them though! I don't remember the torque steer being such a significant issue with them, I think that one needs some attention tracking-wise, maybe a worn bush or two, the front does look a tad high, & those non standard, bigger looking rims with lower profiles wont be helping. I had a Lancia Thema Turbo as well, now THAT had torque steer issues when the turbo kicked in...
Nice car with a soul in it. Very nice exterior and interior and good maintained. I can see that the owner put a lot of work and money in it. To keep a car in this state you must have a passion for it. Nice testdrive Ian and a lot of admiration for the owner. I hope he keep it and have a lot of pleasure from the car.
Same here. I was very, very tempted by a V6 166, but the Wife had her heart set on a X350 XJ, and as seen as she drives it the most, (I’m in my van), she won.
I had a metallic graphite 164 Twin Spark as a company car for three years in the early '90s, it went beautifully, handled really well and it never missed a beat during our 80,000 miles together. I still miss it to this day.
Oh, that engine note! Sweet Italian music, for sure. And the engine’s a sight to behold, so unlike the current trend of burying the engine under a silly plastic lid.
Wow! That is a beautiful 164. One of my favourite Alfa Romeos. The replacement for the 164, the 166 is a beauty too - and a car I’ve had the pleasure of driving.
The Q4 3.0 v6 is probably the one to get with the combination of AWD and that beauty of a Busso. But they are so rare! La creme de la creme of 164's (or should I say "la crema della crema" )
Had a wonderful dark green Lusso and other than fiddly electric windows it was completely reliable. Bought at 3 years old and ran for another 40,000 miles. Steady as a rock at high speed !
What a lovely machine,from the doors back it also looks similar to a Peugeot 405 Mi16 from the thumbnail! Those diamond cut rims set it right off! Appreciating in value for sure. 👍🏻
Our 164 Twin Spark remains one of the best cars I've ever owned: handled beautifully, looked gorgeous, & was very reliable (unless I left it with the dealer service agents) - so yep, when new, the wipers, aircon & all the buttons worked. Ours was a G reg '89, owned from 92 to 97, & had the same interior etc as this one, but the TS did without the electronic dampers. Incidentally, the boot badge should rotate with the key slot underneath. It may need a bit of encouragement, if the owner usually uses the dash button. It also spent a lot of time on the same roads, as it came from the Bedford dealer. The TS didn't torque steer, either, just went like an elegant hot hatch.
What a beautiful car. Thank you for this. A very dear friend of mine now sadly departed, had one that was his absolute pride and joy. He replaced it with a 156 and I think always secretly regretted it. Happy memories.
Takes me back to 1996 when I run an identical car, although without the LSD. That engine is gorgeous and now seems to have reached iconic status as numbers have depleted. We never knew them as a Busso engine though, just an Alfa V6. Can't understand why people pronounce it 'Booso' either
@@alfaduc single U is pronounced 'uh', double UU would be pronounced 'ooh'. Fancy pronunciation for engines that were ten a penny 20 years ago, must be an Alfa thing 🤣
We had a 1990 164 2.0 ts for 20 years and drove with it 640.000km (yeap you read right). We took care of her and she took care of the family. Never had an engine overhaul or a serious issue or a brake down. We just fully serviced the car every 10.000km since new and the only issues we had was 1 climate motor pump, 1 wheel hydrolic pump, and 2 window switches. Fantastic car in every way possible. Unfortunately it was time to move on to a more modern car but couldn't let her go since she is rust free. So she is still in the garage, just sitting since the end of 2010. Hopefully one day, I ll get her out again..
Absolutely gorgeous car always wanted one in black with a tan leather interior. Definitely one of the best looking Alfas ever designed.
Gawd yeah black with tan interior, gorgeous combination
Silver with dark red leather for me please.
@@andicog
Also a good combination.
Another huge fan here. As seen as it hasn’t yet been taken, I’ll take mine in Rosso Corsa with tan leather please.
That era of Pininfarina that did some good stuff.
I remember an ex-work colleague acquiring one of these back in the mid to late 90s, and taking me out for a spin to show it off. My own car at the time was a mk3 1.4 Fiesta, and I remember the Alfa feeling like a total rocketship in comparison, and I loved the quirky Italian interior. Effortless overtakes on A roads, and travelling at extremely naughty speeds on the motorway. Fond memories from a quarter of a century ago!
A good friend of mine got a brand new and just introduced 164 3.0 V6 as a loaner while his Alfa Sprint was in for service. He took me and a couple of other guys for a spin and got the car up to 180 kph on a stretch of city motorway (Lyngbyvejen in Copenhagen) where the speed limit is 90 kph. It was early afternoon, so the road was by no means empty. The acceleration and sound up to 180 kph was amazing.
A masterpiece indeed.
This brings back happy memories of my 164 3 Litre 12v.I cant believe its nearly 30 years ago.
Stunning. No more words are necessary.
Really were really good cars the 164 , look even better with age.
Oh my absolute God, what a beautiful machine. I had the pleasure of driving the lancia 8.32 once, in Leamington spa with left hand drive a dog leg first. Fun....it's pronounced tamer btw. My grandpa had a 155 with the twinspark and I learnt to drive in a 147 2.0 twinspark, obviously not the V6 but how have the mighty forgotten what we wanted. Fabulous, memorable cars. As a youth a then spent many a happy mile in a 33 1.5ie because I could insure it....none of us ever actually broke down either. Quite reliable when regularly Given beans.
Some of the best wheels ever fitted on a car
One of the best looking and sounding cars ever
What a car, inside and out, and that engine sound!
As you say Absolutely Glorious. For the late 80s early 90s the 164 was well built, beautifully styled, the interior was gorgeous and the Busso engine was wonderful. Remember at the time we had the Volvo 760, Rover 827, Vauxhall Senator, Ford Granada, Renault Safrane, Peugeot 605, Nissan Maxima, Toyota Camry V6, Honda Legend. Of these the Volvo, Vauxhall, Toyota and Honda had the good build.
The Rover, Peugeot, and Nissan had great styling.
The Rover and the Granada, Safrane and Honda had gorgeous interiors.
All had strong engines but the only one approaching the Busso was the 2.7 shared by Honda and Rover.
The Senator, Granada, Safrane and 605 had great chassis but again, all inferior to the 164. The 164 had the whole package.
Ideally, the executive would own a BMW 530i for work and a 164 Cloverleaf 🍀 for enjoyment and leisure.
Having owned a couple more modern Alfas, I’m very glad to see this. Very much a drivers car.
Wonderfull video. I have had 3 164,s . All the later facelift 24v cat versions. The earlier 164,s had a better exhaust note because of not having a cat. I did not know you have had a 164.
You have done them justice in this video. Thanks.
Simply, gorgeous.
Torque steer keeps you on your toes. Gets the blood pumpin.
Love those and the 75.
Fantastic .
The design of the 164 is criminally overlooked - it's an "E Segment", theoretically a calm and collected executive cruiser and yet, it looks like it's wanting to go 2000kph even when it's parked; It's like it was stuck in "super pursuit mode" from an episode of Knightrider. Compared to the German competition of the time, it looks 10 years younger and still, in a way, retro-futuristic: tell me that design wouldn't fit a cyberpunk movie/game to absolute perfection...
My first job when I left school was working in a local Alfa Romeo dealership in the parts department. I had to learn motor trade Italian as all the microfiche weren’t in English. I remember specifically on the 164 fiche there being multiple options of part numbers for doors and windows. There were options tagged as ‘Mafia’ . Yes , you could actually order reinforced body panels and bullet proof glass for the Italian Mafioso. Love it 😂
Mild mannered man with beard morphs into Jeremy Clarkson
POWERRRR
Ouch, Ian you got Clarkstoned
Thats what Alfa does to people
Very 80s, planar, boxy but still about as stunningly beautiful as a saloon gets. Wonderful details inside and out. I owned the two litre version of its successor - the 166.
Great now I find myself lusting over a Busso V6 Alfa again... damn it!!
What an awesome machine and a credit to its owner!
This is my dream car. One of the best of era, in fact I would go so far as to say one of the best looking cars of the 20th century. Just gorgeous. The epitome of Italian wedge design.
Sheer indulgence shared, I love it.
Miss my V6 ( 30m front wheel drive launch burnouts) new front tyres every 12k ‘s .. totally worth it.
Many years ago I had a 164 V6 Lusso as well. Got it serviced by a mobile mechanic recommended by the owners club. He used to be a mechanic for the Alfa touring car team and was burrrrilliant! He advised that although the rev limit was about 7,000rpm, they were safely good for 8,500rpm. I don't know what he did, adjust or change something, but hearing the Busso at 8,000rpm!!! I will remember that sound to the day I die. And I never drove from Leeds to Tunbridge Wells, all of 200 miles in two hours. That absolutely never happened.
This is a 12 valve cloverleaf quoted as 210 bhp , tweeked valve timing over the standard 188 bhp model .However the later 24 valve model in cloverleaf form was quoted as 230 bhp. Lovely cars.
Such a beautiful crisp and clean design.
Stunning ❤
The 12valve cloverleaf engine is the finest of all the bussos. High lift cams plenty low down torque and a real screamer
Better than the 24 valve
That's a stunner
The 3 litre Alfa engine is one of the best out there. It was awesome in the 75, but the 164 wasn’t too bad either. There’s not many of any of the cars left that were based on this platform.
Very well engineered too, resolves 1st and 2nd order imbalances, no need for a balancer shaft. The crankshaft design is incredible!
What a G O R G E O U S car that is!!! Wowwwww!!!! Tha Busso sounds so so luscious!
Ah, the perfect review, I just wish it had been my 164 you were driving, I have a 12V Lusso manual (a rolling restoration) with seats off a later 24V cloverleaf (like the ones in your review car only perforated and with some extra buttons to adjust the front and back of the seat height individually. Its just the best thing ever, that 12V Busso noise is glorious. Your review car is a 12V model Ian, you can tell as it has a distributor, exposed HT leads and the old style dash, along with the better soundtrack. Fuel economy can be pretty brilliant on these actually, mine regularly gets me about 30MPG, granted the cloverleaf has shorter gearing.
Yes they are very reliable for how exotic they are, and nothing quite drive like them, i'll never sell mine, it means more to me than just a car. They are top quality, Galvanised so they dont rust and very thoroughly tested as they were developed. The only bits that do seem to let go on these are the bits with a Bosch stamp on them.
The torque steer seems excessive on that car, they do have a torque steering tendancy, but mine just pulls to the right firmly, its very easy to mitigate, I think it must have some issues with the suspension geometry or the wheel alignment, I don't think its the Diff, i have a Q2 LSD in my other Alfa (A 147 GTA and it does not wander like that).
Keep up these brilliant reviews HubNut!
Alfa Romeo made two of the most awesome engines for sound and performance, the Busso V6 and the classic twin cam all alloy four that was designed in the fifties. Never owned a Busso and that is a real regret, but had two with the classic four, both with Dellorto carbs (76 Alfetta 1.8 sedan and 81 GTV 2.0) and loved both of them. Maybe you could find one of those to test that hasn’t succumbed to tin worm, a tall order in the UK, I know. You will probably hate the gear change, it takes a lot of getting used to, but being rear wheel drive through a transaxle, you will not have to worry about torque steer!
I was lucky enough to drive one of these when new and to this day it’s one of my favourite cars to drive.
We need a ‘Power More is Magnificent’ T shirt now! Lovely car. Always had a soft spot for Alfas, had a GT back in the 2000s. I just love the Italian approach to pretty much everything really; cars, art, architecture, food, coffee, life.
THE best looking and sounding car ever to grace HubNut. Have always been one of my favourite cars. The blocky styling and that awesome centre console have always been the main appeal, and the sound of the Busso is the absolute cherry on top. Fabulous video Ian.
I know I'm flying in the face of popular opinion, but I'm just not seeing the appeal of this Alfa (at least in terms of owning one). Then again, cars have always been subjective ever since we stopped making them be purely about transportation.
That Busso engine is intoxicating, and looks as good as it sounds! My lazy Lexus V6 sounds like a sewing machine in comparison. Loved that video, many thanks!
I went car shopping with my late Father. He needed a new car, we looked at the v6 164 , he had to have an automatic. Also a 75. We also looked at a lancia thema . And a Saab 9000, and 900.he had always had Citroen's and fancied a change. He really wanted a 900 3 door turbo but due to an accident he struggled with a tight foot well , the answer was to of ordered it with a manual break peddle. He really liked the 75 too. Personal ide of had the lancia, the one we drove was excellent, ha green ish gray with a dark green Alcantara and some kind of satin wood, very classy and extremely comfortable... He chose the 9000, in CDS trim, dark gray with gray leather.... He regretted every moment of ownership, it often broke down leaving him stranded. The dealer was really not good, although he did find one nearer our home that was truly excellent... One day while cleaning a couple of years later he discovered rust in the boot to wing seem. He lost his patience Saab UK did not want to know, just out of warranty... He traded it in on a Citroen XM TD executive? He kept it covering nearly 300 k in it all it needed was a new gearbox and servicing.... Excellent car...
An unreliable saab 9000, with bad dealer experience? Both are almost unheard of, I can only apologise for his experience. I work closely with saab and have good connections to the main dealers left in the country and I guess the surviving ones were the best ones... But I've never really heard of any issues. And in my experience... 9000 was always a very reliable car, even 30 years on, it still can be
I own and drive a Saab 9000 since 3 years. It's indeed a very reliable car and the build quality is top notch. I love it to death!
Never heard any bad stories of 9000 ownership before, truly shocked me reading the comment above. I also have quite a few friends who owns/owned a 9000 and they adore them, never any big issues, high milages on the clock and still running as smooth as ever @@ollialbone
Oil pressure gauge AND a voltage gauge!?
Anyone who watches Motorweek Retro Reviews knows how ecstatic John Davis would be with this car just for having those! 😉
exactly!!
"Forget power: Less is more": 😂 You´re absolutely right, it´s a high quality car with a gorgeous engine. About 20 years ago I bought a new smaller Alfa, which was probably the worst car I ever drove. So after less than one year I gave it back to the dealer in exchange for a used 164. Huge difference: Very satisfying car, no problems at all. Very relaxing at long distance drives.
The best looking of the Saab , fiat., lancia , alfa foursome . I ran a lancia thema for a while and it’s dashboard was like a disco. Still enjoyed it though. .
It would be a crime to hide that beautiful engine behind a plastic cover...
This is a work of Art, soo much more than meets the casual tester. The finest door latch design ever-pincer twin latching and on pillar the latch is rubber damped, the doors shut nicer than German.
I, too, once owned a 164 Lusso. Mine was an early 12V manual from a time when they still fitted the electric rear seats (yes, rear). It didn't surprise me it was reliable because a large chunk of the stuff under the bonnet was made by Bosch (this at a time when German stuff was actually quality). I was once going up a wet hill and managed to get a bit of wheelspin when changing into fifth - even the 12 valvers could be lively in the wet. I miss that car.
One of the best looking cars I have seen. I might get one!
0:26 ‘a thoroughbred V6 engine’ - can’t be said often enough, it truly is and all of these units deserve to be cherished ❤️
Now that you've had a drive in this, I'm not sure my 166 Sportronic is going to cut the mustard for you! Gorgeous car.
Absolutely beautiful car!
Can’t wait for the ‘Elly with a V6’ video.
Have great memories of my 3 litre lusso
Used to find turning the fog light on then off used to make the speedo work again
Those alloys are stunning some of the best I have seen. Rest of the car looks great.
Two minutes in and my is already tingling 🔥
I still miss my 164 q4 ! Even had the same colour sceme
I'm glad to see people appreciating this car because it indeed is very underrated especially where I live. Also, I have one myself a 2.0 v6 turbo, but currently, it's only a project car, can't wait for the day it finally lives once again and I can hear/enjoy that italian engine noise.
Holy cow, that is one beautiful car
I had one of these - almost identical spec sans the tacky (to my eyes) rear spoiler. Had an Ansa exhaust and upgraded 17" 5 spoke alloys but watching the video brought back wonderful memories. Had 3 other 164s, all 3.0 manuals and loved them but the QV was one of my all time favourite cars. Decent tyres helped tame the torque steer which wasn't anything like as bad as you experienced. If it had a Q2 dif it shouldn't be an issue so there's something amiss there. I had a 166, GTV V6 and finally a GT 3.2 and fitted it with a Quaife dif - with this grip was better in the wet than without it in the dry! Certainly solved the torque steer. Going back to the 164 QV, I preferred the 12v to the facelifted 24v both to look at and drive. A hugely underrated car - thanks for reminding me 🍀🇨🇮🏁😊😷
I remember these as new cars, as I worked for three Alfa dealers. The Cloverleaf with that awful bodykit (sorry, it's just nasty) was thankfully quite rare - the standard 164 was very elegant. That's a 12v car. The autos had limiting stops on the steering rack as the gearbox was so big, resulting in a huge turning circle! The 2.0 Twin Spark was very popular - an excellent car, but not quite the same. The later facelift car was a beautiful thing with the old dated bits sorted out, especially in a dark colour. The 24v V6 had cam belt problems early on (not enough 'wrap around' the inner pulleys) and whilst it had more power, I don't think it was as nice as the 12v. 164's were galvanised and just didn't rust. The rear suspension crossmember does though. Overall they were a robust reliable car with the usual small Alfa niggles. A pity so few survived.
Ian Black cat was an omen, that the devil was chasing you, there was too much fun being had on this drive. Never thought I'd hear you say power less is more (but a little more is power & fun).
I am in love with this car for more than thirty years...but never had one I never had money and now It´s really hard to find some good piece today...
Reliable but expensive to keep it running.
My 166 Lusso needs a heater matrix repair and I've been debating whether it's really worth doing. It's a big job and the sensible, economic, rational part of me has been getting used to the idea that it's time to let it go ..... and then you go and make this video and remind me just why I love it.
Quadrifoglio Verde, giving me that warm fuzzy feeling, ever since the eighties ;-)
.... which dob or sob gave this vid a thumbs down? uncool!
I always liked these. Lovely, handsome cars. Very well-built. When current, they were actually quite under-rated, and always good value as used cars. In the early '90s, the What Car? long-term fleet were running an F-plate 164 3.0 V6 Lusso in that lovely dark turquoise. The car was 3 years old and had covered 110,000 miles at the time of its final summary in late 1992. It surprised them, as nothing at all went wrong with it, and it still looked fresh, even the engine was like new. Of course, this was back when new-car magazines were photographing engine compartments during road tests.
Unquestionably one of the best Alfa’s ever. Looks and sounds amazing. Well done Signore.
Alfa’s should be, by law, black with red leather or red with black leather.
Wonderful, wonderful cars. I used to work for Alfa when they were new, & used to have to collect them from the docks & bring them back to the dealership in London, what a job that was! I once got caught by an early speed camera on the A12 doing 143mph in a Cloverleaf (covered in wax, only essential fuses fitted, so couldn't open windows/move mirrors etc), very very naughty, but difficult not to do now & then when they beg you for more all the time your honour! 75`s were also a lot of fun! (the 33`s were too, obviously, but they weren't selling as well at the time, & I never felt fully comfortable driving the LHD Spiders).
I also had a couple of old 2.0 164`s, both reliable, speedo`s & occasionally oil pressure gauges aside, (+ A/C digi displays if fitted), the wiper thing is worn linkages (quite common). The cast alloy door mirror bases tend to crack at 15 years or so, causing them to drop off. Nothing serious enough to detract from the joy of driving them though!
I don't remember the torque steer being such a significant issue with them, I think that one needs some attention tracking-wise, maybe a worn bush or two, the front does look a tad high, & those non standard, bigger looking rims with lower profiles wont be helping.
I had a Lancia Thema Turbo as well, now THAT had torque steer issues when the turbo kicked in...
That's exactly how I felt about my 75 V6. You really need to track one down Ian, you won't regret it. All the right noises and rear wheel drive. ❤️
Exactly, better chassis. I had 2.
I personally also prefer the 75, the V6 America was cool and yeah: RWD with 180-190 bhp depending on age and trim.
NICE!!!!!!! That 75 V6 was such a sweet car.
Great cars, I'd drive it miles just for the hell of it. Bits fell off randomly and sometimes for no apparent reason it wouldn't start. But I loved it.
I’ve got a 75 V6 Cloverleaf. Absolutely love it. 222hp too
Always loved this two tone color on the 164 and that engine!
That sound effect of thunder as you say Clover leaf. Is like the gods are going "Oh Really"
Lovely Jubbly Mr HubNut, beautiful car inside and out.
Just watched JayEmm reviewing a 1500 Van den plas and now you are reviewing a 6 cylinder Alfa 164. It’s a strange world!
Nice car with a soul in it. Very nice exterior and interior and good maintained. I can see that the owner put a lot of work and money in it. To keep a car in this state you must have a passion for it. Nice testdrive Ian and a lot of admiration for the owner. I hope he keep it and have a lot of pleasure from the car.
Had couple of these, the twin spark face lift one i had sold with nearly 300,000 miles still running fine wish id kept it
Beautiful engine noise! I have a not very HubNut car with an I5 engine, and the noise is so addictive!
The only modern car I genuinely desire is the Giulia Quadrifoglio. That says it all about Alfa for me. They’ve always made amazing cars.
Lovely stuff. Thanks for sharing an outstanding car. I've just added an Alfa Romeo to the fleet, what a great decision that was
One of the best cars I've ever owned.
Had a chance to buy an Alfa and I blew it. One of my (many) car buying regrets. Thanks Ian
Same here. I was very, very tempted by a V6 166, but the Wife had her heart set on a X350 XJ, and as seen as she drives it the most, (I’m in my van), she won.
Love the qualifier on "first car I had with WORKING air conditioning." The suggests it was preceded by others with non-working air conditioning.
I had a metallic graphite 164 Twin Spark as a company car for three years in the early '90s, it went beautifully, handled really well and it never missed a beat during our 80,000 miles together. I still miss it to this day.
Oh, that engine note! Sweet Italian music, for sure. And the engine’s a sight to behold, so unlike the current trend of burying the engine under a silly plastic lid.
7:29 Speedo comes over all un-Italian and springs back into life! 😂 A dream car of mine. Absolutely lovely.
Wow! That is a beautiful 164. One of my favourite Alfa Romeos. The replacement for the 164, the 166 is a beauty too - and a car I’ve had the pleasure of driving.
Ah Biggleswade Sainsburys! My childhood hometown.... these are the roads I cut my driving teeth on, hooning around in my Dad’s Tara Loadbeta pickup 🤣
I'm looking forward to the day you have a Hubnut performance car in your fleet like this!
The Q4 3.0 v6 is probably the one to get with the combination of AWD and that beauty of a Busso. But they are so rare! La creme de la creme of 164's (or should I say "la crema della crema" )
I have a 164 for daily. The Best car ever...
Always loved these things. Especially that soundtrack.
Had a wonderful dark green Lusso and other than fiddly electric windows it was completely reliable.
Bought at 3 years old and ran for another 40,000 miles.
Steady as a rock at high speed !
I used to own a 1989 164 3.0 V6 auto in silver with the dark lower body mouldings and it was my favourite car I've ever owned .
I have always regretted selling my 164!!! Great Vid Ian.
What a lovely machine,from the doors back it also looks similar to a Peugeot 405 Mi16 from the thumbnail! Those diamond cut rims set it right off! Appreciating in value for sure. 👍🏻
Lovely Car Architecture & Scenery!
Hub nut needs an Alfa V6! Now you're tourqing! Go for it. 😎😎
Once again you prove to be the Eric Outhwaite of car reviewers , shall we talk about the window wipers ?
Our 164 Twin Spark remains one of the best cars I've ever owned: handled beautifully, looked gorgeous, & was very reliable (unless I left it with the dealer service agents) - so yep, when new, the wipers, aircon & all the buttons worked. Ours was a G reg '89, owned from 92 to 97, & had the same interior etc as this one, but the TS did without the electronic dampers. Incidentally, the boot badge should rotate with the key slot underneath. It may need a bit of encouragement, if the owner usually uses the dash button. It also spent a lot of time on the same roads, as it came from the Bedford dealer. The TS didn't torque steer, either, just went like an elegant hot hatch.
What a gorgeous looking and sounding car. Truly beautiful.
That said, I’d love to see you drive an MG Montego Turbo.
What a beautiful car. Thank you for this. A very dear friend of mine now sadly departed, had one that was his absolute pride and joy. He replaced it with a 156 and I think always secretly regretted it. Happy memories.
Takes me back to 1996 when I run an identical car, although without the LSD. That engine is gorgeous and now seems to have reached iconic status as numbers have depleted. We never knew them as a Busso engine though, just an Alfa V6. Can't understand why people pronounce it 'Booso' either
Busso is pronounced exactly as spelt.
@@alfaduc single U is pronounced 'uh', double UU would be pronounced 'ooh'. Fancy pronunciation for engines that were ten a penny 20 years ago, must be an Alfa thing 🤣
Absolute beast of a car . Drove one on hire from London to Glasgow and fell in love with it . Great video .
Stunning car, driven a 2lt twin spark a fair bit and owned two SAAB 9000's one a 2.3 Aero the type 4 was a great collaboration
I love Alfas. I am a huge fan of the 164. A gorgeous car.