THIS Happened In Retail WoW For A Reason (it will happen in classic too) | Classic WoW
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- Опубліковано 9 лют 2023
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Over time in retail WoW, the high end playerbase has trended towards the Horde. This, in time, has eventually lead to even the most casual players feeling the knock-on effects of this. Is this something we should expect to happen sooner rather than later in Classic WoW? And can anything be done about it?
This is why cross faction play had to happen in retail, and why there's no reason Classic won't experience the same set of issues.
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The faction divide only works if you have 1 giant mega server. Otherwise one side will always dominate a server eventually.
Until that server goes to one faction
As long as we can choose server this will always be a problem. Blizzard could deny players from creating horde character on alliance dominated servers and vice versa but that opens another cans of worms.
@@keithb6344 I agree with this, but Grobbulus is a shining example of a counterpoint to this argument
It won't if you just Don't let it. Why such a limited point of view? As a game dev you can literally do everything.
Server pop mustn't exceed 45/55 and transfers need to be free.
Problem solved.
The real problem is Blizzard trying to aggressively monetize transfers the way they do/did.
@@tarron3237 At least in the current system though how do you stop people from transferring to a different realm? If a server is 45/55 and all of the 45 go to different servers, you end up with a 100% same faction server either way. Do you then, force some people on that server to change factions? Do you force new players to only be able to roll that server, and force the low pop faction on them? If you don't, there's no guarantee anybody will make new characters on that server since they might not be able to play the faction they want on it. If you do, those players are more likely to quit the game because they can only play on that server and their friends are on a different one, especially since the faction you'd be forcing them to roll on has literally close to nobody. They won't stick with that experience they'll just leave.
Best solution is just merge everything, no layers ideally (do layers but let people hop between at will without weird invites and shit if you have to) and allow cross faction play in everything. It may not be in the spirit of classic, but there's really no other way to make sure people aren't going to min max the hell out of it all and creep into afflicting the whole player base.
Just too much junk leftover with servers and factions to not just revamp it all for something that works better in the modern gaming world
I love how you proposed to not have faction transfer service to help with this and it just went live lmao we are definitely on the same path as retail
The saddest thing about it, is that the solution is kinda easy: give the player a choice for race as a cosmetic, and a racial kit for bonuses. Let the humans that want to PvE have Blood Fury / Berserking alongside the respective race racial kits (If you choose Blood Fury you also get Command) instead of the one they choose for cosmetics (It replaces all the human racials). If something is overly used, reduce its power or increase something else power. We already did that for paladins on TBC when the alliance paladins got the good seal for pve, I dont see a reason other than RP to keep racials as they are right now.
@@adcz2 This is actually a great idea. I think most racials could make a lot of sense for other races, other than specific things like Gift of the Naaru cuz there's dranei stuff in the name. But honestly if you just change some of the names it works and solves the issue completely.
@@adcz2 Your idea seems silly to me because why bother with racials then? If you don't see a reason other than RP just get rid of them. I personally like them but they need to do some work to balance them a bit and stop the faction inbalance.
@@Zannyzander Seens like you misunderstood what I said. There is no reason for a racial to be tied to the cosmetic appearance of a race other than RP. Getting rid of it would just make the game more blunt and less interesting, just like what blizzard did in wod, where they removed so much from classes.
Having a button to press that is meaningful adds a lot to the game, even if something as niche as a blood elf racial interrupt during a dungeon.
@@Zannyzander only real way to balance racials is to literally have them mirrored. Orcs got axes skill? Cool so do dwarves, etc.
Always loved the fact their were two factions but this is the problem with a 20 year old game that people play at a serious competative level which wasn't designed at a base level to be very competative. I always look back on when I originally played vanilla and seeing anyone in anything other than blues the player was "hardcore" which was
That magic is long gone unfortunately.
I personally blame Esports leaking into every aspect of gaming as a whole. Not only are you xpected to be a good gamer when you have played a while you are now expected to have some amount of skill even at the start & any complaints will have people direct you to game guides & you just got to polish further before you get to do anything multiplayer...
Sportsmanship culture in mmos is so cancer.
@@whineyhoe This isn't really an esports thing. Toxic competition has been around for a lot longer than esports have been in the mainstream-- if you ever played stuff like CS 1.6/source, early CoD games, or DotA 1 you'd realize that.
The vast majority of players have no delusions about wanting to seriously compete in anything, much less MMO players-- they don't model their play after tournaments or competitions, there's just a hyper-focus on optimization, efficiency, and skill due to that being the current cultural phenomenon of gaming. I would argue that esports are propped up by that culture and people admiring the expression of skill and wanting to learn from it moreso than the culture is propped up by esports creating that attitude.
The oldschool culture of exploration and casual fun is sadly pretty much dead-- mostly because you eventually run out of things to explore and be amazed at.
Definitely interesting that this kind of game is super competitive and "the modern games" that are designed to be competitive are not competitive as much
@@whineyhoe I agree, Esports isn't even interesting, its just kinda...weird. Just let people play games and stop trying to make it into a sport like basket ball you know?
Once upon a time Preach suggested that such strong bonuses like haste or attack power buffs could be tied to professions rather than races. I always thought that was a good idea. I know in classic engineering does kinda do this, but a troll engineer can still double dip on this kind of thing.
I finished this video a bit ago and wasn't sure when to release it. However just the other day, Faction Transfer is now an available service for WoW Classic.
This service (along with race change which we don't have yet (but should eventually)) was present in original wrath too.
Floodgates open moment? Locked servers still remain of course. Other than that, will things go the same way they did on retail... but just at a much faster pace? Zug Zug
Servers were unlocked I thought too? I can make level 1s on all servers
@@fenicksdoun7356 They said they were unlocked, but Grob is still locked. Maybe they're treating Grob special to save the last 50:50 server in the game? I had a friend from another server faction xfer in preparation to come to Grob with us, but though he could make new toons on Grob he couldn't transfer in. Could also be a bug? He's going to try again after Tuesday maintenance
If faction change was available in vanilla classic I feel like a lot more players would be alliance in Classic now. Alliance was so much better than Horde back then
@@harmstrongg just rolled an undead mage on grobbolus like two days ago, what a lovely coincidence that turned out to be.
Flood gates are def open. Earthfury alliance just all mass migrated off the server to eranikus all, and others, now eranikus is mass migrating to horde.
I love how grobb has stayed balance between the 2 makes me wanna stay
I was alliance on a horde majority pvp server. It was absolutely miserable. I was getting griefed and camped for just existing in the realm. I tried my best to tolerate it and play along with the world pvp as I had enjoyed as a kid. But with everyone min maxing stuff now, it's not the same because everyone wants the highest advantage they can get -- which is what I think contributed to the drastic shift in server population balanced. I feel if there was some way to keep server's faction population half and half, world pvp could actually make a comeback.
I eventually transferred off to a ally server because I couldn't even play the game anymore.
Same. I played on Un´Goro EU back in TBC and Wrath. We were able to make a single ICC 10 man group per weekend. AV? Never. Always had 20 stacks of the buff down in 1k winter.
When i swapped to horde, it felt like a new world. Groups all day long. AV was the first thing on wednesday. Tons of ICC random PUGs every weekend.
The solution: You make every server 100% horde or alliance. 1 faction only. And you pair them with another server of the opposite faction.
Temporarily with swapping them around or permanent.
@@LPRPG guild wars 2 does this kind of for WvW. individual servers are grouped together on a team, and then multiple "teams" are connected to fight each other. the teams rotate regularly, so each server gets paired up with other servers, and the servers on the opposite teams also rotate around.
@@ridespirals Yes but WvW is like a completly different mode.. an "instanced" open world... in which people go in to willingly fight.
Also, dying does NOTHING to you.. u respawn and u instant teleport.. somewhere.
There's no penalty or ghost walking.
And noone can grief you over doing an escort quest or something.
Truth is, that people HATE world pvp... that's why servers became 1 faction servers.
Cus they HATE it.
They like only when they win and only for a small period of time.
The rest of the time it's just.. bad, annoying and time consuming.
And no, this is not MY opinion.
if it was up to me, i would make every server a pvp server and i would drive every single pve scrub into minecraft.
This is the opinion of EVERYONE , based on what has happened in classic wow.
@@LPRPG So 2 PvE servers with cross faction BGs.
Star Wars Galaxies allowed players to change factions within the game through a not-quite-so-difficult reputation process. When the server I played on was imbalanced to far toward the Rebels my entire guild of hardcore PvPers swapped factions and rolled into a massive PvP battle turning the tide for the Imps. It was epic and cost us zero money.
I think EQ2 did that even better. It allowed you to switch faction through a couple of pretty basic quests in the early game. But you didn't race change or anything, you kept your race. To take it as a wow equivalent, you'd get to keep being a tauren with everything that entails, while still switching to alliance. Ofc wouldn't work in wow since the capitals are race based but still, I really liked that feature at the time.
I think they should assign an alliance server with a similar sized horde server and do cross realm, but only between the two realms, that would balance the servers instantly
I think EVERYONE who played beta and pre alpha(aka Neverwinter Nights WoW) before the bane of why this game went downhill that is chilton took over back then, warned that separating Players on PVE for both factions would bite them back in the future, and faction conflict should stay on PVP, not on PVE because players would need to work together if certain quests or open world or dungeon/raid issue happens.
The entire lore has shown that both factions worked together on PVE.
Racials in retail are marginally different, and still during sl 60-80% of players in m+ were horde. 52-48 becomes, 55-45 into 60-40 and so on and so forth
That was because the big guilds are horde, every mdi shows that alli races are better in dungeons, but most people want to play with the bigger population
That's cuz most had already went horde, the the updated alli racials weren't worth transferring to a smaller playerbase. I think it is slowly evening out, but its gonna take years to reset the perception that horde is better
Also there is a slight Blizzard favoritim towards Horde. When Goblins cheesed Kil’Jaeden with rocket boots, that was OK, but when dwarfs had advantage in Castle Nathria due to Stoneform, they nerfed it. Not to forget Every man for himself nerf after WoD because Arena ladders were 90% humans
EDIT: typos
@Mortisoculi I'd 100% be playing troll boomie instead of night elf but my guild and all my contacts/friends are alliance so.. night elf it is. Berserking is great for boomie damnit.
Because racial where not that marginally different. Arcane torrent one of the strongest till nerfed in BFA and the gobelin racial single handedly ended the alliance raid scene for Kil'Jaeden MM where some class couldn't reasonbly survive without the mobility it provided. After that, the balance of hardcore raiders where so much in favor of the horde that it just continue to snowball for the horde until now. They even put OP racials for the mecagnome to try to balance a bit but let's face it, those gnomes are ugly and the horde population to big to matter.
Personally I've always hated the faction system. The amount of times I'd had someone at school or work and found out they also played wow was way more then I'd had believed growing up but then you are like what do you play and they reply with x class and spec but end with I'm on a different faction then you and instead of feeling I should engage them about this thing we both enjoy I just drop it and completely ignore any more wow talk because what is the point we could never engage with each other online is just sad.
True. Couldn’t agree more
Yep the non crossplay servers are annoying enough.
Reading your comment causes headaches… please use SOME punctuation! Maybe u should have payed more attention in school instead of talking about wow relationships there 🤦♂️
@@stefangeibla3824 Annoying rude people is more fun.
Or you could make characters and lvling together...? I dont see the problem here unless you refuse to play on the other faction
I moved my characters off a mega server during wotlk launch window. I had to take a break from WoW after a few months of Naxx (I had a newborn baby) and now that I have a little time to play again, I come back to my realm (Sulfuras) and see its a 94% horde realm. So all my level 70's and 80 is stuck with no hope of getting them away unless I pay!
Servers and factions are an outdated barrier. Cross-faction grouping will be good for Classic.
11:35 nice shot of a bot walking into the frame lol
I remember in the commentary for one of the retail World First races, someone said that the reason why it was still Horde-dominated despite the racials being balanced to basically be no difference in raiding was because there was still no reason to pay money to transfer from Horde because all the try-hard players were already on Horde from when their races were most powerful. So yeah, even if the racials were neutralized, it wouldn't fix the faction balance because your pool of players to play with would still be on the dominant faction
I think the reason why this happened is a TBC when horde races got a much bigger advantage over alliance races. And then they realised quel'danas isle and that was a fatality to balance on servers. And this happened again in tbc 2021
It might take away some of the racial fantasy. But I always thought the abilities should be given to both factions (maybe with different names/icons.).
Tauren and Draeni can both have the stomp but give Night Elves the Tauren Health bonus (because they're so healthy after being immortal for so long). Give Shadowmeld to the Trolls.
Make racials into birthsigns.
Anyone can choose any racial combo for whatever race they want to play for aesthetic reasons and roleplaying reasons.
Like in the elder scrolls oblivion, your character was born under a birthsign constellation.
So you can get a gnome with orc racials who is primed to be a warrior because he is under that birth sign, ie, born at a specific time for lore reasons to explain it.
Like astrology signs.
Then there wont be any faction and race min maxing, really, aside from tauren hitboxes or other somewhat minor stuff.
I would prefer this.
I would rather have my character have attributes based on their birth sign and their character back story, like it is in other RPGs.
I like playing certain eaces for the aesthetic based on my mood, and I want my character to have personal birthsign attributes instead of racials that fit their backstory.
This is a great idea!
this is actually what they did in 1.0 baldur's gate 3 they removed the racial stats bonuses that were in the early access and... it actually feels good to play something not because you want to min max but because you actually want to role play
I'm so scared that transfer feature is gonna destroy alliance population on my server. It's the only server people play in my region and it's already at 35/65
I haven't been keeping up but have blizzard Saif anything about race change in the cash shop or is it only faction change in classic release?
It would be interesting to see of those top 1000 parses what percentage are orc / troll.
I think there's a big issue with racials that you use on CD, every single fight for the purpose of increasing DPS. Most racials are minor utility boosts (in PvE) with fractional impacts, orc / troll are the exceptions.
Several comments suggesting DPS increasing spells should be profession locked, this makes sense to me too. Especially given that 8/10 racials are mostly utility with only minor HPS/DPS bonuses, unlike orc/troll that are totally overpowered by comparison.
You can move to a locked server if you already play there? is this correct?
Because I get a warning saying this server is locked then I try and move a character to Pyrewood Village. I have multiple characters on Pyrewood already.
Wasn't World First in Emerald Nightmare done by an Alliance guild as well? Or do we just discount it as an anomaly of a tier in general?
What website is this? The one showing realm population
Ya my classic server feels basically dead and it’s really hard to form groups so I just don’t play now. Sad stuff
I just want to be able to change my troll to orc! That’s all lol. Great video WillE!
I absolutely love berserking as a racial... it's so good in so many situations.
...
But you'll never catch me playing a troll for it.
What features do yall want for next fresh?
A huge number on my server has already transferred not only to a different faction but to another more heavily populated server as well the moment Faction Change was released. I myself will probably have to follow suit soon to play with more people, just sad really.
It’s funny
I was exactly also looking at the races of top performing shadow priests today on warcraftlog because I wanted to see how bad I would perform if I don’t want to play a troll
I always wondered why they don't simply block character creation for one faction, like leave a buffer up until 40/60% and when one faction reaches 60% say "Alliance / Horde is overpopulated, more people of the opposing faction must join before a new character is created. And they could count let's say just just one character / account so Altaholics don't influence the base numbers. I know it would be shitty to want to make an alt and have to wait but overall the experience would be much better than forced layers from other realms and cross-faction interacting with untradable and many uninteractable people outside that small one-time enounter with them.
They could just limit it to logging in. You can't log into an alliance/horde toon if the server currently has 60% or more due to a bunch of opposite faction guilds logging off at the same time. Instead of a log in timer, it just shows you how many people of the faction have to log off first.
So... there is this game called Everquest. You can choose if you play with evil factions or not, cool new concept ;)
EverQuest is trash. Sit down
The ONLY thing that would be harmed with this change is world PvP... which is about 99.8% ganking. Especially after the initial run of Wrath I could see them doing it for sure; player numbers will fall when the content is done, or if you make fresh servers... the benefits of not splitting up players is greater.
what are the benefits?
@@akhsdenlew1861 , beyond ending ganking and not splitting the player base in half?
@@naejimba yes.. i wanna hear BENEFITS..like true benefits.
@@akhsdenlew1861 , first, it means all the players on a server are joining the same queues, instead of designing a game where the ideal situation is cutting that number by half (lol). This is ESPECIALLY important if we are talking about continuing to do servers for Classic content that already came out, since the numbers will be much lower overall. For that reason alone, this is more than enough to warrant such a change.
Second, it means people get to play what they want... especially if this means evening out or getting rid of racials (if they want to get at the core of the problem where even a tiny amount of power > RP choice for most of the community).
Third, it gets rid of ganking. Almost all PvP that happens in the open world is done in a situation where one side has so much of an advantage it isn't possible to win (like with ganking, or groups who kill solo players still leveling). There should still be plenty of opportunities to do PvP; hell they could even have a toggle where you have to opt in so if people want to fight in the open world they can along faction lines. I wish they would give it more of a focus personally, but this wouldn't be losing much of anything at all.
It's all benefits... and the only argument against it is someone who likes to gank people who can't fight back, which would be a sad hill to die on. XD
@@naejimba i literally read 0 benefits.. wtf?
First things first.. it doesn't get rid of ganking, it enhances it.
you know what got rid of ganking completly? 1 faction servers ( sadly)
World pvp was never about being fair... it's always unfair, always ganking, zerging or facing against impossible odds .. like a hunter start hitting you from miles away when you try to solo an elite for example.
Second, people already get to play what they want... they just have to pick the right server for it.
if you want horde you go gehennas, if you want alliance, you're stupid... jk you go firemaw.
Third, going in the same ques... like.. what is this anyway? How is that a benefit?
if anything it's a bad thing.
As a retail player who knows a guy who race changed specifically to night elf for high end pvp and then to Tauren for high end raiding this makes a ton of sense.
It'll help. What I need is better catch up mechanics no one wants to bring fresh 80 so I have to do normal heroics. then get raid gear than I can do the heroic+'s without getting kicked from the group.
3:20, "am i a joke to you?" - SWP
cross faction stuff is cool by this point anyway I think,
I play sometimes on this wrath private server with crossfaction trading/raiding/questing etc and it's really cool lol
As a dwarf and Alli main i barely see any mythic plus groups in group finder or dungeons
The trickle down doesn't stop at faction choice its crept or bardged I to just about ever other facet of the game classes and specs.
Came back to DF and one of the first class conversations I had (mostly about pugging) ended with "class x is good but if it's not S teir, no one really wants it".
Wait U guys don't have Fraktion switch?
I never understood how this could be the case. I don't have exact numbers, obviously, but whenever I would meet someone in the wild (school, work, gym, in a different online game, etc) who played WoW, they played alliance. The statistical distribution of alliance to horde players was *overwhelmingly* skewed towards alliance.
Over the 8 or so years I was truly active in the game, I had 12 or so invites to raid with people I met outside the game. I can only remember two instances being horde - importantly, the first one, since it's what made me choose horde in the first place (that entire group later race swapped to alliance, too).
Even in later years when my first major guild dissolved, all of the Guild Recruitment forums were majority Alliance (though the skew was not as dramatic, closer to 60-40). Alliance was always the one recruiting for progression raiding. I'd find a horde guild here and there, but I paid for a faction change on 3 separate occasions just so I could raid.
And when I was playing horde, it was common to hear from a buddy that they were faction swapping to alliance. I cannot recall a single time hearing the reverse, "hey guys, I convinced my buddy to swap to horde and join our group."
And I started on a very balanced server, a small, near 50-50 PVE server. But over the years so many people swapped to alliance or quit that the guild disbanded. From then on, I always tried to choose predominantly horde servers, and still people would leave for alliance on other servers. Hell, I was one of those people 3 separate times.
Blizzard could fix this in the next expansion if they were actually willing to put in the work to make another expansion. It would be so easy too just have the infinite dragonflight messing with the timeline and finally have horde and alliance work together so there are no more factions.
@williE they opened up transfers on my server(maladath new server) and the same day 85% of the alliance player base left the server. Now cant even get a dungeon bg or even get a AH with more than 2k items. if 85% of the players leave why even keep this server open! opening a fresh server was a total bad idea! perhaps you could do a video on this!
Yah my guild just transferred to from OB TO WM HERE in the because of lack of interaction for the horde player base..
The slight % imbalance between A&H seems to align quite perfectly with the % imbalance between males and females.
Great video again WillE,
Just found the motivation to get back into wow again but not classic :) had a real craving of hard grinding and long nights with Vanilla so went back to that for now. i rly hope after wotlk or something they will release Fresh servers and actually try to not doing the phase stuff and try to follow the origional route but would be too much to ask im afraid. now that China is out of wow i keep seeing CH guilds popping up in mass on P servers gonna be interesting whats developing there.
i did play wotlk DK War and Warlock but cba with Naxx and those raids. havent had a look at Ulduar but wasnt rly my favorite from back in the day.
Keep grinding brotha :)
@0:45 - You can make your own raid group..
I don't think it'll solve the whole thing and I know it's not that easy, but balancing the racials a bit across the factions could help. They don't need to be equally good at everything but in case of PvE content and especially raiding, there's just a lot of racials that are pretty much useless and others that are as good as having an extra trinket slot and are always useful. I'm certain there's potential for flavourful and unique ideas for racials to be tested, especially in classic where we don't have so many races per faction yet.
Alliance and horde need to just split the abilities. They already have the proffesion/weapon/resistance skill racials on multiple races. Why not just give (and rename/maybe get a new icon for) all the alliance abilities to the horde races and vice versa.
Sure everyone would end up a little bit stronger. But if both sides had a reskinned version of the Orc/Troll abilities, things would go a lot better for balance.
Tauren already share nature resistance with the night elves. The Tauren herbalism bonus can be shared with humans (farming). Warstomp is shared with the Draenei. Endurance boost could be shared with the Dwarves.
Night Elves could give Shadowmeld to the Trolls. Give Wisp form (reskinned into a scary ghost) to the forsaken. Quickness could be shared with the blood elves.
Do that with all the abilities and the combination of abilities might still end up with a certain preference for the min/maxers. But both sides have access to the same buffs.
Tbh i strted play as Horde only cos my friends play this side, if no i would join ally. But now after all this time i sped as red one i wouldnt switch into blues....i dunno why i just dont feel right if i play as ally....
as Savix said, let any race be able to train any racial at the capital. You can switch whenever you want. Job done.
Yea what's most class played in bgs or arena Ur only looking at raiding
they should just make it so you can cross faction raid and invite people through lfg could benefit dead servers a lot.
Why would any horde raid EVER invite alliance players though ? When they are literally weaker cause of worse racials ?
Server balance issues are so easy to fix. Simply give xp boosts/ loot boosts to whatever faction is in the minority faction to encourage balances
i am a real alliance andy. never played anything else. only humans or nelfs untill i started a dwarf with classic.
well i play on a little german server and i would be glad if some allys would consider a faction change from the 95% ally side dominance. i choosed horde bc i played ally too long but i guess i got the woring server for that (Lakeshire)
Bro you not fixing that or rerolling is on you. Classic players y’all have the dumbest mf takes
@@Valvad0ss ?????
im surprised you didnt bring up method or the fact alliance have only had 3 world firsts in history
There is already a 30% off on Wrath faction transfers in the shop...
I would love to play drenai. But I am a huge pve player, so I just have to play horde if I want to push better.
The best solution is to treat them like world buffs, disable all racials in arena and raids.
Then take a quick pass at trying to make them all interesting.
That should be enough to prevent any serious min-max pressures (at least until mythic+ 5mans), without needing to remove them entirely.
easiest solution is just mirror the racials on an opposing faction race.. Trolls get Berserking.. then maybe Night Elves get a spell by a different name but the effect is exactly the same, increases haste by 20%..
Night elves get shadowmeld.. then trolls also get a the same spell but by a different name. and do the same with every other faction exclusive racial..
So just do away with faction exclusive racials and mirror them onto the other faction. doing so will overnight fix the need for players feeling like they are forced to swap to horde to be competitive if Alliance had access to these advantageous or overpowered racials too.
Removing racials isn't a solution, nor is pruning, nor crossfaction play.. Just simply solve it by giving alliance access to these desired racials.
Grobbulus is literally the last bastion of Wpvp
Grobb mob supremacy - true 50/50 gameplay o.0 we are the hope
I have always had to play horde because that's where my friends have played. I prefer the aesthetics of alliance between races, major cities, and pray cross-faction PVE becomes a thing in classic.
Best bet is modded private servers or with an expansion where they would change lore. Liek if for example alliance and horde would have been forced to cooperate in wotlk due to the harsh climate or smth. That could’ve been a nice way to get cross faction PVE imo
been on grobb since classic release and has been an awesome server. sucks that blizz packed everybody onto the mega-realms with the free xfers resulting in it being locked.
I have a flavorful solution:
give NElfs an Active side to their Wisp passive which will act like _the vanilla classic quest reward item_ Light of Elune on 90 min cooldown.
I fail to see how a bubble that you can use maybe twice per raid is going to impact damagelogs in any meaningful way TBH
they should put horde on one server and alliance on another, separate them this way, and by population, cross server connect them. when one drops in population, switch it to compete against a more evenly populated server. shouldnt be hard lol but what do i know
its a lil late but i have a solution so that everyone can play their races by looks and what they like you can just put an npc in like the big cities where you can change the racials and have the other bonuses too so lets say you are a nightelf but you have the axe spec from orc and also blood fury. doesen't it sound nice?
Solution is painfully simple: enforce a 45% minimum an 55% maximum faction lock. You cannot make another faction char if the server already has 55% of said faction.
Just limit it to log in. We already have log in ques when the server is too full. So instead of an expected wait time, it just shows how many people on the faction you want to play have to log off first.
They added shamans to alliance and paladins to horde because of 'inequality' between the factions; they should make racials = for certain races (one horde gets berserking, one alliance gets it etc)
great solution honestly. Can rename it but keep the same effect so it fits better then boom. Only problem I see from that is if someone prefers the aesthetic of the horde race with the racial they're looking for more than the alliance race with the racial they're looking for or vice versa. Someone else's comment was suggesting any race can have any racial "package" just renamed to be more generic. Love that idea, pick the class pick the racial ability package
faction changes already out on US and i xferred 3 toons to alliance
Just saw the video, I propose this;
Racial bonuses, such as skill in a profession, should remain on the character, but bonuses like AP, haste and to a lesser extend, weapon skill (while lore relevant all things considered in WoW), should be profession tied, but instead of the race specific, orc with AP, trolls with haste etc - the professions would each give each race the extra benefit - sure, engineering has the haste bonus so it seems counter intuitive to give that profession the orc or troll racial bonus, it won't affect orc and trolls but other races can benefit from it, or give those bonuses to other professions to try and give more of an equal setting.
LW'ing getting a haste boost from troll racial, skinning getting the AP bonus from Orcs, BSing getting weapon and hit skill (from Draenei and various races) or split the bonuses to try and balance profession bonuses, I know it's a bit of a weird thing, but when you want to play a race you WANT to play vs what's BiS, removing racials completely won't work as nicely as say, putting those racials into bonuses elsewhere in the game that everyone can benefit from would be a better solution
Splitting your playerbase by faction with zero cross play, is honestly the dumbest thing ever
Sulfuras was around 30/70 with a horde majority before the change. My guild was alliance and the second faction transfer was up they all switched to horde because of the larger population. Sucks that I have to change faction to be able to play with my friends.
Everyone knew as soon as it opened the alliance would move out in droves, brutal.
In vanilla i was alliance cause of gnome racial for rogue was so strong 😅
Ye and CD this racial is amazing. In tbc only ud fear is op ability in arena, target losing combat possible to resap is broken
Faction transfers are in the game now though
I have been playing forever off and on. Started with horde and stuck with it from TBC. Everything I have ever bought is horde related, posters shirts POPs etc. Now you have to play Alliance to PVP due to honor gains and racials. I can't do it; I can't look at myself playing a Dwarf or Human. All my friends made the switch. I just don't play anymore.
FYI Mythic Plus is cross-faction in retail.
nice video mate! very detailed and nicely explained for everyone :) turtle wow (priv vanilla + realm) has made it cross faction so you can party with opposite faction and it's working wonders, especially in HC for finding dungeon groups. Blizztards could easily do this if a priv server can manage it... are they just to lazy? not allowed to invest any time in it? want the £$£$£ from forcing people to faction change is my guess... greed rather than love of a good product
0:24 phase 2 was the best patch in wows history guys literaly im not even joking even yall pvers will look back nostalgic at it one day.
You'd think if the server started getting unbalanced it would be pretty easy to rebalance. Just add a boost of somesort to the other faction until everything is balanced again. Incentive will increase the likelihood a person to play other faction. Maybe I'm wrong idk.
But what to choose to boost. Blizz tried that using rewards from wq if I remember correctly and didn't help much. Two hours of trying to do wq with pvp on vs 10 minutes with pvp off (been there done that, don't want to even try to turn wm on and I am on rather balanced server).
Horde increases your chance to kill Arthas by .01%
Alliance: Spend money to transfer!
I think people are going to classic era for hardcore cause I’m on bloodsail buccaneers and it use to be pack with hordes but i overlook the hordes today in wotlk it only like 314 and alliance have over 1000s.
So I think hordes transfer to alliance and/or went back to classic era for hc…and my guild is thinking of going to classic era for hc and make a hc guild there.
glad to know i'm not he only one with the issue of names above players getting bigger and smaller in size, usually while idling on a mount...
I was thinking i was alone with that.
unfortunately for ICC and ToC, they are unsuitable raids for crossfaction, so it's not the expansion that is needed right now.
I don’t know why they don’t add a faction cap instead of a server cap
All they need to do is have each race have a set of racials that have exact performance analogs on the other faction, with a different explanation. And then tweak which races can play which classes so those are also equivalent. So you'd end with with say Tauren being equivalent to Human and Orc being equivalent to Night Elf or whatever.
Cool idea, but the races don't match each other in terms of class choice aswell. Right now we have 3 Paladins on the Alliance vs 1 on the Horde (2 Horde with Cata). Shaman is even worse with 1 Alliance vs 3 Horde now and 2 Alliance vs 4 Horde in Cata.
Keeping that all in mind, how do you even make the pairs? The ones that would make "most sense" in my mind would be:
Human - Bloodelf
Dwarf - Orc
Gnom - Goblin
Nightelf - Troll
Draenei - Tauren
Worg - Undead
And that alone would have us end up with Orc Paladins, Gnome and Nightelf Shamans as well as Draenei and Undead Druids. You can swap these around to a degree, but you will always run into similar Problems.
At this point you can say "screw it, just remove race/class limitations alltogether" but I'd say it would be better to just remove combatrelevant bonuses and keep race/classchoice a little bit more of a thing.
That has to be the most boring solution there is. Homogenisation sucks. They have to make different racial shine at different times. Buff underpowered races and nerf the op ones. They should make encounters that are tailored to make some races shine. More roots is better for gnomes. Stealthed enemies are a buff to humans etc.
Instead of a 1-1 between the horde/ally races, just give every race a couple more racials. Racial weapon skill/proffesions/resistances are already shared between horde/ally, just expand the idea to all of them.
All the unique horde/alliance racials get reskinned icons and/or names and shared. Tauren and NE already share NAture resistance. Give Humans the herbalism bonus, Dwarves the endurance boost, and give the warstomp to Draenei.
Now both sides have access to the same broken abilities but the distribution is at least different for each faction.
@@maxogge We learned this in Mop-WoD when Bloodlust/Heroism(and a bunch of other once class specific abilities) was shared by like 3 other classes.
Should have never ruined the class fantasies of Paladin only on the alliance and Shaman only on the horde. That was the beginning of it.
The problem is that WoW started as a generic adventure game with no real plan for the ending. Once people started to play, Blizzard found out they had two massive populations of gamers that wanted different things. One half wanted to fight each other and the other half wanted to cooperate (while like 10% of us just wanted to play alone).
WoW should have just gone with two different timelines for the PvP and PvE servers. in the PvE timeline, battlegrounds are just wargames the factions play and the united.
It all could have come to a head during Wod/Legion, if they had the different timelines fare differently. The invasion take 1 year in the PvP world but a lot more people die (which would change up Shadowlands). Maybe in the PvE timeline, Sargeras stabbed Duskwood or something instead.
The solution is for servers not to allow balance shift, like no server can have 1 faction, 48/52 maximum difference in players being online.
That is undoubtedly an absolute horrible take, there's a possibility you could quite literally never got logged on.
@@KyleHudsonn well this way ppl who don't wanna stay in que cuz their faction is full can change sides.
@@ivanshevtsov3631 And thus kills PvE on that server instantly. So we can tell you're a PvPer...
@@andromidius how thats gonna kill pve? it will be about equal amount of players on each side including pve players
@@ivanshevtsov3631 What if you have a job or other commitments that don't allow you to be on the game untill peak time and you can't log on, then what?
Removing racials is boring. What would be best is if half of them are removed then added to a new trait selection, of which everyone can have 1 or 2.
As an example, all Nelfs get wisp form and shadowmeld while all dwarves get stoneform and treasure hunting(?)as their racials, and then they can choose 1 or 2 traits from all of those former racials that were removed, putting all races on a more equal playing ground while still feeling unique from each other.
Faction balance isn't even the only thing that needs to be fixed too, I'm really tired of everything devolving to GDKP and just having money/gold being the META.
i haven not played this game in years but how was that a thing i mean a troll hunter procing rapid shot with that is now 60% and with a shaman proccing bloodlust in arena now im shooting 100% FASTER lol...FOR REFERANCE i was a tauren hunter ground stomp was nice
Can't belive i have to worry about not being outsider AGAIN after i moved to firemaw with 2 best characters a year ago
At this point it'd be nice if they would just let my buddies xfer to skyfury where I am now. They weren't able to roll there around launch time cause the server was locked and now we're just separated by too much
Ay yo we play on Pyre together! I’ll /wave when I see you in dalaran!
Cross faction bgs are not really cross faction. They just allow hvh (a a would be a thing if alliance pvped more). If cross faction bgs allowed horde to mix with alliance, that would be interesting for sure. But that's not how it works.
So many people moved back to Classic Era servers in the last two weeks. I guess got tired of changes.
From empty servers, now they are booming :)
I can see people mass transferring horde when raids actually become difficult and being a troll/orc makes a huge difference in ability to clear the raid, but as of now and for the next few expansions, the game is super playable even on races that do a few percent less.
I think the core issue is warcraftlogs parses here. People obsess over parses meanwhile your parse is a very skewed measure since you could do the same rotation in the same gear in a raid that takes twice as long to kill the boss due to group/race composition and your parse will go from purple to blue. In t7 for example put any class in a raid with 10 uh dks and they will get an orange parse regardless of what buttons they press, simply because the boss fight is so short and it heavily inflates the dps.
Appeal to wclogs to go back to being a useful combat analyzing tool to figure out who dies to what, who stands in shit and when bosses cast what mechanic, instead of a very arbitrary best-of ranking site and people wouldn't be as inclined to reroll horde to get orange numbers on lumberjack side.
I've been alliance since the start of classic and am not likely to ever reroll to horde, even less pay for a faction xfer.
The only competition should be within your raid on the dmg meters since everybody is on same footing and parameters there. Nobody cared about minmaxing,logs,parsing on pservers. Doesn't matter if it was classic, tbc or wotlk.
This is definitely a community and 3rd-party issue and not primarily a developer one.
This right here is and always has been the major problem. Outright ban all third party parse trackers and you will eventually kill the entire "competitive vibe". This only hurts every RPG that is in an online environment as RPGs were never designed for heavy competition. People do obsess over their numbers, like an addiction. It is a shame because it is a great way to gauge your own performance (make changes here, make changes there and the like) but if this is the end result as we have seen with Retail... yeah, completely ban them ALL!
Ahh the 3 eternal certainties of life: 1) death, 2) taxes, and 3) the horde will eventually become the majority faction
blizz could have made a faction ratio cap on servers, like lock the majority faction on a server if it gets worse than 60/40. instead they chose to let this shit happen for all the faction change money.
Just remove the cross play barrier and open up rep so that players can visit each others cities and hubs. There problem solved