Trash or Treasure: '05 GSX-R750 Brake Caliper Investigation
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- Опубліковано 2 гру 2020
- www.DaveMossTuning.com
We delve further into our 2005 Suzuki GSX-R750 and rebuild all the brake calipers. Could we have skipped this step just to get the bike up and running?
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A suggestion for Dave the next time he's taking pistons out of the calipers with air. Leave the square seal in the caliper half and put the caliper half on a flat surface facing down. This seals up the caliper by pressing the square seal into a flat surface and you can blow air into either the bleed nipple or the brake fluid hole where the banjo bolt fits. This means your not trying to blow out the pistons into your hands and instead they will each hit the table and you can keep pressure on the caliper half to keep it under control. Also means you have less chance of breaking a finger if you get the pressure wrong or the piston flies off into the ether.
Thanks for the information that will help many viewers watching this video.
Try using a grease gun next time. You won't have to worry about flying projectiles using compressed air. He also should have left the halfs bolted together.
And there is hole/passage between cylinders, so you do not have to use clamp to remove the other piston.
This is a great series. I'm doing something similar with an '03 sv650s. Your content is very relatable because you share what your learning and is very similar to how I'm working in my garage. Keep up the great work!
I'd rather watch content like this, than suspension tuning 100% of the time. Pick up tips and tricks along the way.
I’m really loving this series! 👍
Well done guys.
Glad you enjoy it!
Dave
My front forks are riding well. Thanks for your input!
I'll be sure to follow up with refurbishing the brake system 👍🏻
Excellent!
Very interesting series. Oddy enough not even knowing of it i have been doing all the same and more of a 2007 gsxr750
I however took it all way down, powdercoated chasis and wheels been replacing every bearing, hose, seal, or part i can on the project.
Great series.
Great to hear someone else taking a bike and starting from a bare frame to rebuild from the ground up!!! Fantastic and thanks for sharing :)
I did the brakes on a '92 CB750 recently- pistons were so stuck (compressed air wouldn't budge them, starting to damage them with the puller) I had to use the oldschool method; stack enough crush washers on the brake line bolt so it will seal when the bolt is tight, then fill the caliper with oil or atf and fit a zerk fitting in the bleeder hole. Then put a grease gun on the zerk fitting and pump- that puts more force against the piston to get it moving. You could just fill the calipers with grease instead, but lots harder to clean up than oil...
There's no video in this channel where you can't learn something! All well explaind and also the camera shows you everything you need to see! I totaled my k7 750 (not because wrong setup but because drunk idiot was thinking it is fun to drive his car 120 kmph through city) but hoping for next one next spring. Until then I'm trying to learn from your videos as much as possible. Yesterday I gained access to premium and couldn't believe how much more content there is! I spent whole night watcing stuff i probably wont try any time soon!
So, to you mister Dave and to your editor: keep on going forward at what you doing! Wish you all the best!
Thank you for being inspired by YT and then subscribing to Total Access. 15 years of filming can create a lot of videos :) Take on topic at a time and start with ergonomics with your next bike!
Allen keys can hurt hands from high shock and pressure loads. I use a piece of 1/2" copper water pipe (12.7mm for the metric gnomes out there) about 8" long. Like a mini helper bar/pipe for small allen key bolts. Great hand saver as the extra length provides better leverage and the copper pipe protects the hand from the spring tension release shock of the allen key.
I find the easiest way to use inside-vise-grips is to clamp not too tight, then put the vice grip tool in a bench vise. That gives you two hands to lift the calipers up off of the pistons. So, 1. pump brakes with one brake pad still in the middle and hope they move equally. 2. Use compressed air before and after caliper splitting. 3. vise-grip in a bench-vise and lift up the caliper half off the piston.
I came here to see how you put the calipers back together without destroying the new seals. Grease was my first choice also. Thanks for the confirmation. I just completed tearing down my 2004 600RR's front calipers and I learned 2 things. 1) 100 psi of compressed air and a sealed chamber make a deadly projectile. 2) Using (2) "C" clamps (large vice grips) is way safer. I clamped one inside each piston and left about 2-3mm of space for the piston to move out. You're not marring the back of the calipers as the vice grips are loose but locked. Now each time you use compressed air you can control the removal of the pistons by loosening the vice grips a little at a time until both pistons are all the way out. It takes 3-4 times but it's way easier and safer. There's no more need to endanger fingers, teeth, and eyes. I'm blessed to still have all mine. I did find the piston though...
Great POV and experience shared for all to leverage.
Nice job there Dave! Marmelade liquid forms from not changing the brake fluid. As once Dave said, Brake fluid is like a sponge sucking in moisture. Plus washing the bike with high pressure washer right after a ride isn't the best choice....
When removing a piston from the caliper , drop a socket in the piston and use a allen key to get leverage
That cheeky Dave Moss guy refurbishes a great gixxer, must watch. :) I am more of a GSX-S750 dude. It is a bit more accessible and I can eat lots of burgers more without looking out of place, even though I might look out of shape. :p
We used to take pistons out with installing a grease nipple (that was a school so there were many different available) in the caliber and gently pushing grease with hand operated grease gun into the caliber till pistons popped out or almost out if they were not taken apart. Still, rags and leather gloves were needed...
Might be wise with monoblocs not to put your fingers in there between...
Hello all :) Again great video!!! One short question: why you use grease for pistons? In future they can be stuck when contact with small amount of water (can oxide). Same as at the beginning of the video, while you try to remove them. My recommendation is to use "brake cylinder paste". This paste is compatible with the brake fluid DOT 3, DOT 4 and DOT 5.1 and can prevent cylinder to stuck in brake caliper, and helps for smoot moving inside in the brake caliper.
Thank you again and continue with other interesting videos! :)
Hello Valer. Thank you for your tip and there are several products to choose from if i use Amazon.com. Do you have a personal preference?
I smeared brake fluid on mine when I re built my zx9 b4 👍
Thanks mate 💥👍
I would love to see how to take the pistons out of a monoblock calipers
IIRC The tiny motion pro piston tool is made for this
This makes me want to just work on sportbikes all day long
Very well and knowledge full 👍🙏🏻
or use the bikes own brake / clutch levers and pump out the pistons before you disconnect the hydraulic lines
Much clever!
Dave could have made the job a lot easier for himself if he had left calipers on the bike and pumped the pistons out using the Front & Back levers...if that didnt work..go with grease gun and if none of those worked go with compressed air...but like my pop used to say..your never too old to learn.
Dave of you bothered to read the manual, it tells you to use compressed air to remove tje pots. With out damaging them with a crap tool.
Never put grease on any seals on your brakes once again the manual states use clean brake fluid.
At least you didnt try and tighten any bolts before loosening them thats a stupid idea, lets add more shear force to something thats not strong under shear force.
How long have you been doing this? Its like a guide of what not to do
Hi Dave , respectfully suggest the use of rubber grease for all brake components, master cylinder rubbers, brake calliper seals , other types of grease can make the seals swell making the pistons bind or the flange in the master cylinder flip , I’ve used Dunlop rubber grease for 30 odd years , it’s the best in my opinion, highest regards David
Thank you very much for your comment based on your experience! Rubber grease will be used from the point forward.
@@catalystreactionsbw having a senior moment it’s actually Castrol on the tin !
That work is treasure!
I've done a couple myself too.
Cleaning is painfull but assembling is glorious and it pays off.
About figuring out which seal go where, and besides their thickness, don't dust seals have lips on the inside, the contact face?
Just like a fork seal ;)
Great work 👏
Did you found the reason for the marmalade phenomenon?
Hi Dave, forgive me for pointing this out, but the only substance allowed to lubricate brake pistons and seals is plain brake fluid, and maybe red rubber grease. Love your videos.
@Johnny Blue please tell me what is written on that grease can - for god sake, it's in 4k resolution
yup after a quick google search for the brand/type i couldn't find it being ok for brake part assembling. it seems brake fluid is advised tho at work when we replace car brake pistons we have a special grease, can't remember the brand or type, but i believe is something german. imma check it out tomorrow and come back here to reply to myself.
@@HowlerBikeVlogs silicone grease is the one to use 👍
Brake fluid is not good for lubricating the seals, being hygroscopic it tends to turn into a white powder, which sticks them to piston causing it to jam and pull the dust seal out.
@@K-so8gx Here's what the service manual says: * Clean the caliper components with fresh brake fluid before reassembly. Never use cleaning solvent or gasoline to clean them.
* Do not wipe the brake fluid off after cleaning the components.
* When cleaning the components, use the specified brake fluid. Never use different types of fluid or cleaning solvent such as gasoline, kerosine or oth- ers.
* Replace the piston seals and dust seals with the new ones when reassembly. Apply the brake fluid to both seals when installing them.
Hello - Just a quick note on greasing the Pistons. Don't use standard multipurpose grease, be sure to use specific grease that is not corrosive to rubber, its often red in colour. Otherwise it will corrode the seals. It looks as though you did use brake specific grease but as it was not mentioned i thought id give viewers a heads-up.
Thank you for your tip and using the right product is always best. To date, we have had no issues with the calipers at all post rebuild.
@@catalystreactionsbw Girling Rubber grease is compatible with brake fluid which is hydroscopic too.. if I could suggest.. I always expand the pistons out before i dismount the calipers.. keep topping up the master, itll take a bit of fluid.. the jello in the opposite cylinder set suggests they were seized for some time.. which would explain them being so hard to pop out.. can be good to let them soak in kerosine overnight (in a plastic zip bag) before you start dismantling.. penetrates all the seals really well to free up.. cheers from NZ.. need more of these service rebuild vids 👌
@@Errol.C-nz Great post Errol. Thank you for taking the time to share your experience and knowledge!
Oops, I very much hope that the grease you use is harmless to the quad rings of the saddles! If this is not the case, the rings swell up in no time or they make the contact surface with the piston so soft that they wear out quickly. There is a special, acid-free brake caliper paste for this application. Similar to brake fluid, this special paste is also hygroscopic and must be used with caution (skin protection, etc.). The easiest way would have been to use DOT4 brake fluid to mount the rings. Your gray grease... well, I'm afraid that was Kackjes !;)
Yes it worked fine and the bike has over 4,000 miles on it now with no brake issues.
If you hadn't gouged the old pistons could you have reused them or are they toast regardless?
Toast regardless - they were being replaced no matter what.
Is the one side of each caliper more dry as is the up side when bike on side stand? Lower would hold fluid longer maybe before evaporated
Not that I am aware of as the system is under duress from the master cylinder and in bleeding left and right calipers on the side stand, the high righty side never has air bubbles it to date. For those that are curious, if we could manufacture clear calipers, that would be an interesting experiment.
Uhh oh Dave used the wrong grease. Time to take it apart again.
Does the oil seal have a flange on one side or it doesnt matter how i orientate it? I am rebuilding tokico calipers on my k9 bandit
I looked at the caliper seal orientation when I took them off and then installed the new seals the same way. If there is a lip, it must always point towards the piston direction of movement ie: outward towards the rotor.
sweet !
edit: question, is it advisable to take out the piston and clean the inside of the caliper while leaving the old rings in ? would it be better to carefully remove the rings and reseat them after the cleaning (cleansing ?) if they look reusable ?
thats the only the thing holding me back pulling out the pistons completely for now.
Most of manufacturers recommend replacing at some time of around 4 years of use, the brake feel and efficiency is another level after full cleaning 😉
Agreed - replace. As we had no idea what state the calipers and pistons were in, it was a total rebuild with new seals and pistons to be safe and that included making sure the calipers were 100% spotless prior to seal and piston installation.
words of advise
thank you people. i was planning on simply extending the pistons and cleaning the crud off, but 3 out of 8 pistons were seized and one pad was worn down at a 30 degree angle. but the swollen rubbers hanging out of their grooves like a destroyed cassete are what made me order new seals the very next moment.
i had to put the reassembly on hold for now, but im really looking forward to the new brake feel of calipers that havent been cleaned in 25 years
@@DarkIzo Excellent work that a close inspection brings! I have no doubt you will revel in the minimal brake pressure and duration you will experience.
The problem with Tokico calipers is the fact they anodise the body then machine the piston bores, this then leads to corrosion. Nissin anodise after machining. I have a 05 Gsxr750 and race a 05 Zx6rr, both have Tokico calipers and both have average brakes even after caliper rebuilds!
Those golden 05 tokicos are known to be maybe the worst calipers ever for track riding. They are typically changed to black Nissin calipers which are found in R6, ZZR1400, and newer 6Rs.
@@deadslow201 Have you had much to do with them? I always get long lever travel with them, regardless of master cylinder. Swapped to the black Nissins on the zx6, much better
I had/have those in my 05 R6. Swapped also MC to Brembo 19RCS. Good enough brakes after that.
What grease should you use for seals I think it should be rubber grease
As soon as I saw that tub of grease in shot I was hoping it was going nowhere near the seals... 🤦♂️ Oh well. 😂 Not my brakes!
There's special grease but my manual says to simply apply some brake fluid to all the surfaces Dave applied grease to.
Dave
Do this! It's incredible.
1 big bottle of "Pine Sol" and 1 big Bottle of "Pine Allen" Available at Dollar stores. Mix the 2 and soak the parts for 48+ hours. Slosh around a few times. Brush off the goo and you have brand new parts. This does not affect rubber or plastic parts. I did this with the carbs on my 2005 YZF600R. I disassembled the carbs completely including the very salted fasteners. After 48 hours and some brushing and rinsing, the carbs looked like they were made yesterday at the factory! The fasteners look like I bought brand new ones. The bike runs like brand new! The key is the 2 different chemicals together. One without the other does not work as well! I have "Pine-Sol" and "PineAllen" stickers on my YZF600R Track bike!!!! LOL!
Does they create a lot of bubbles? If not probably be a great solution to use in an ultrasonic cleaner. We would water down simple green in ours and it did wonders on carb parts. Might have to give it a try.
@@joemaffei3760 It does get foamy when agitated! It works best when you just soak the parts for 48 hours with a little agitation here and there. As it works, a gelatinous white goo will be floating on top. After the time is up, just rinse with hot water, brush and blow out with compressed air. The parts will look like new!
@@ttrguy9952 will have to try! Thanks for the info. Appreciate you!
@@joemaffei3760 Thank you Sir!
I use anti seize on the caliper bolts the ones for the brake pads grease probably does the same
Maybe you should consider using copper grease when dealing with brakes? They can get to high temperature.
Copper grease is abrasive and should only be used on bolts for anti-sees. But copper grease isn't by itself good against heat as it depends on the grease, not the copper part. Copper grease might be good at conducting heat but if the grease part of the copper grease is butter then it's not going to work on hot environments.
But first "copper grease" product I found when I googled says not to use on aluminium with also changes where you can use it on bikes, especially high-performance bikes.
You, or Dave W asked about thicker fluid on one half of caliper. It looks like the brake line and bleed nipple are both on the same caliper half. So, when fluid is flushed, more comes out of that side, straight from the line. Nothing forces the fluid out of the other half, so it doesn't flush and just ages. You could try to push the pads and pistons in and put a wood shim between the pad and rotor to get more of it as you flush.
Sound about right
Is this a regular wheel bearing grease(looks like a moly based),or high temp brake caliper grease,can we use regular wheel bearing grease on rubber seals and boots for the caliper rebuild?.
I have always used rubber grease for rubber in the past. I wanted to test the moly grease to see if it would have an adverse effect and it did not as I had zero rubber grease and we were on a time crunch for filming. Not an ideal experiment but it worked out. Next time I will be better prepared.
@@catalystreactionsbw Hello Dave,we motoryclists are proud to have you,very professional,no nonsense person,I've learnt a lot from you,knowledge that is correct factually,Thankyou once again.God Bless.
@@Anonymous-pb9yb Thank you for watching and using the content to help yourself and others.
@@catalystreactionsbw Thanks to you dave,for making us better Riders and learners.
What is that piston puller tool called and where can i buy it? I have a bikemaster puller that is total garbage.
This is a much better alternative: www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/motion-pro-brake-caliper-piston-tool?gclid=CjwKCAjw__ihBhADEiwAXEazJuWzjFofqPGOvhNZiWgHmx9gkzCiD6u7mSgdftUuxQpoeT8h2y-ufRoCe4sQAvD_BwE&sku_id=1082406
throw the front calipers into a trash bin and use the r6 / r1 4 piston monoblock calipers!
Hey what can I do about my key holes on the ignition and gas tank. I was trying to get me some keys made but there stuck like the pins are. I been squirting WD-40 in it. It's on my RC51 SP2. It has been in storage for a long time probably 06 07. I bought this Sp2 a couple of months back. It's probably has 4200 miles on it roughly no more than 5k I know that. But I'm gonna get her going again. Still has the original 208s on it original pads. It's a Nicky Hayden signature championship bike. Unmalested gym. But if you can give me a few pointers I need to look for on bringing this beast back to form. Thx
With the locks, soak with sewing machine oil or just a little penetrating oil and let it sit for 2-4 days so it can work in. A locksmith will generally tap the top of the key very gently to nudge the tumblers but best they try as with all professionals, they have the feel for it. Tank and fuel will be the big one - the rest is straightforward. Congrats on the time capsule!!!!!!!
@@catalystreactionsbw Thanks Dave n Yes that's what I did
Cleaned / Replacement caliper piston seals should be done every 2 years… if you remove and clean the pistons and seal grooves every two years you can get away without replacing the seals if funds are tight.
Cleaning sealing seats is pretty pain in the ass, I had bike 1991 which needed brake overhauling. I took at the end electrical toothbrush amd cleaned everything. Instead of tooth picking 1 hour brush did it in 5 min. Btw Philips SonicCare with 20.000 revolutions would do the job...😂
I've read somewhere that grease should NOT be used on internal caliper components (seals/pistons), but to only use brake fluid. Any truth to that?
Yes, use brake fluid if your out of silicone grease.
As per HM, many reference using silicone grease as an option.
@@catalystreactionsbw Do you mean I repeated my self or there are more people recommending it? Sorry if I did 👍
Question, why did you move to the states? 😁
@@H-M-78 Would have taken 20 years to get from English teacher to Headmaster.
Piston seals should and probably will swell pretty fast from that grease, that's not the way to do it... There is a special lube for that.
Its okay if it's synthetic grease.
@@denchua could be, but never seen or bought anything that’s made for brakes in that quantity 😅, toyota sells brake slider pin grease, thats synthetic 100 gram packages and its like 40$ for that, Molykote that makes synthetic grease for BMW bikes cost 3 times more...
I personally use ATE for piston seals and pistons, Bosch specialty lube for slider pins if applicable, and ceramic grease for places where brake pad touches the calipers. The easier pads can move the better is the control of the braking force initially when pressed especially at city speeds.
Thats my experience dealing with motorcycle brakes daily.
No reason to use the wrong grease. Use brake fluid if your out of silicone grease.
@@H-M-78 That is always option,
but personally i would just go and buy proper lubricants for the job. I would never use brake fluid to lube piston seals especially dust seals.
Hi Dave , just my opinion but I’d definitely use rubber grease on the O rings , other types can make them swell and make the pistons bind , I’ve been using Dunlop brand for years it really is top stuff . Same when refurbishing master cylinders .
Best regards
What's the cost to rent a bench for a day..? Thanks Dave for the video.
Good question. $30 for the first hour, $20 per hour after that.
@@catalystreactionsbw Thank You Dave
😁❤️
Someone put dot5 fluid, which causes the fluid to thicken. There's a warning on your master cylinder warning not to
For this very reason. Is my best guess 😌
Had you warmed them first you probably wouldn't have marred the piston, seals are cheaper to replace
Who uses rear brakes?
Oil based grease and dot4 ...tell me that's fine Dave
“Disc brake grease” is written on the can, so maybe its supposed to be used on brake parts?
Most definitely not fine. This is wrong. Must only use Red Rubber grease on anything in contact with rubber. Also the correct grease dissolves in contact with Brake fluid, so no problem. The reason why the pistons seize is because water, particulary salty water corrodes the aluminum behind the seals. As the alloy corrodes it produces a large amount of crustation which expands and forces the seal very tightly against the piston. Whenever re-building a caliper it's important to get the correct grease behind the seal, inside the seal groove, this will help reduce corrosion.
Why this whole series "trash or treasure" is not in order from first video to last, i can't find next videos cuz breaks are before u take them off from bike. I just dont undesrtand this playlist.
I am surprised to see you are experiencing a playlist that is out of sequence. That may be due to the publishing date being the primary sorting data point.
You guys do know you can EASILY remove stuck pistons with a grease gun? Please please try this next time you have some stuck pistons. Watching you destroy those were hard to watch.
That capuccino means no proper service in a very long time I guess✌
U have some 05 n 07 GSXR 750 calipers that are basically brand new. Buddy had a wreck a while back. The K7 didn't have but 3200miles on it. U know anyone needing let me know. UA-cam channel Deonte Tanniehill or same name on FB. Thx
That piston removal tool is terrible. You'd have managed better with the socket and extension bar trick.
I think the best way of all is with compressed air even before taking apart in halfs.
A bit of something between the pistons to prevent damage and makes the rest easier.
For those pistons really stuck, some zip ties on the easier ones and they will come out, eventually.
I used a plastic bucket and compressed air.
Just use compressed air and a vice, you'll get the job done in a few seconds.
Not the kind of grease you should use, your seals could swell with the wrong grease. You should use ATE brake seal grease.
Any other brake grease brands that you recommend from your experience/training?
@@catalystreactionsbw hi Dave, silicone grease is good for brake seals, been using it for a while now, with no problems 👍
@@K-so8gx Excellent. - thanks!!!
I go with brake fluid on the oil seals and silicon grease on the dust seals.
First video I've watched where Dave was doing so many things wrong. Hopefully people read the comments. Those calipers locking up could be life or death.
What a rigmarole, not a professional way to service calipers. why not pump the pistons out with the master cylinder before splitting the calipers? That way everything is completely under control and no risk of damage
You might be able to do that with one caliper. Creating the correct size and shape wood for both calipers that gets all the pistons to an even protrusion is possible, but I am not a wood worker. Sticking pistons could be a fly in the ointment as well.
@@catalystreactionsbw Not at all, just remove the pads, place something along the disk groove of the caliper - screwdriver, long allen key, tee bar handle/shank, and work the master cylinder until all the pistons are extended equally. The tighter the fit of your chosen tool in the disk groove of the caliper the better. Once the pistons are extended over halfway they are a lot easier to remove. You were lucky with your calipers in the video because with sticking pistons e.g. corroded dust seal groove, you cannot apply the same pressure with an airline as you can with the hydraulic brake system.
The grease you were using on the seals looks a lot like hub bearing grease with Moly Disulphide added, this is not good practice at all, as it will swell the seals and all your service work is wasted. Correct assembly lubricants for caliper seals is brake fluid, or for street bikes and adverse conditions, rubber grease or silicone base grease, both used sparingly. Beware of describing the fluid ports as "oil holes" because some idiot will take it literally and fill the system with oil.
I like your suspension and bike set-up videos, and I've no doubt they benefit a lot of riders, especially the sag and ergonomic recommendations, that cost nothing and make so much difference, not least safety. Unfortunately, this video fell well short of your usual professional standard.
Nice work but this calipers Tokico are garbage.
Honestly; you shouldn't publish videos that are not related to suspensions! Love and respect you very much, but this is not your cup of tea. No one can be an expert on everything... Once again, love and respect you very much
Amateur