This man spent 15 minutes adjusting my dorsoduro at a bike night and absolutely changed my life. Every word Dave says is LAW. UPDATE: it was actually at the same place they filmed this.
The more videos I watch, the more I become assured that Dave Moss is some kind of deity. I understand the physics when he explains it, yet I´m amazed every time he tunes a bike into something rideable for each customer. It´s like he reads both people and bikes alike, and match them together. Pure poetry.
I have to say, for a long time I just left my '14 Vstrom stock because I was a little nervous about changing anything because I only had a basic knowledge of how the suspension all worked and sure did not want to screw things up or get them out of sync and not be able to return them back to stock. After watching a variety of these videos from you I figured why not try because my front end seemed really stiff and would bounce around on even a gravel road. I made some adjustments after making sure both were actually set the same I played with it and did the press tests (pushing down on the suspension) and ride tests. I want to say after just a little bit of adjustment it rode like a totally different bike. It remained in contact with the ground so well and the feel of that stability was wonderful!!! I have always loved this bike and now i love it even more after taking the plunge and finding that really good feel that was there all the time, I just had to find it!!! THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE GREAT INFORMATION IN THESE VIDEOS!
Dave Williams, editor, replying here. Fantastic! Thank you so much for taking the plunge and improving your bike. I know you'll inspire others to do so as well.
Me too because I thought of coarse the factory know soooo much better than I till the Dynamic Duo Dave's gave me the confidence to at least explore my factory setup just to find the factory just spits them out willy-nilly with little thought to them. Now suspension is my first area of "upgrade". ;
@@abhishekmaurya6407 oh you got me.. I also pay for youtube red and 10 pornhub premium subscriptions so I guess this "free information" is actually really expensive!
I remember watching a youtube vid for onthethrottle TV, years ago, with Dave Moss talking about suspension adjustments. It was simple to follow, and it helped in my bike riding comfort confidence and experience. Thanks Dave.
Hi, greetings from Portugal! This knowledge is priceless. Just want to say thank you very much! I learned more in yours 15 minutes video than in 25 years of street riding experience. Excuse me for my english mistakes but i'm not a english native speaker.
Brilliant as always Mr Moss and Mr Williams Learning is a process that starts with an inspiration to know more, after that with the right teachers it become infectious. 20 years ago I bought my first bike, a GPZ750r and tore down the front forks to understand how they worked.... well I needed to change the seals as they were leaking. Years on and several bikes later I couldn't understand why people found bike suspension a mute point. You pointed out that people cannot discuss what they do not comprehend. Well its been 5 months since I serviced the suspension on a GSX750F (04) the chatter it has started around that group of riders is getting louder and as always I point them towards your videos as it is such a great resource for learning to occur. One of these riders i heard went to look at a Fazer 600 in a show room and was told it was fully serviced. when he asked does that include the forks and shocks the retailer scoffed at him with a "Noooo" to which he replied well its not fully serviced then and you can keep the bike. I don't know about you, but every time I tear down a shock or a fork I learn something new and comprehend more. The hydraulic fluid for one tells a story. whether it has turned to chip pan oil or an emulsified goop neither state is desirable for efficient suspension that brings the bike to life.
I follow your flow of information,everywhere it leads me to ...it's just short of enlightenment. That too because we can't meet you in person .. But what information, knowledge and wisdom you prefer to share ...fir free .. Most experts can't do that ,even if paid handsomely.. Suspension geometry,it's effects and intent of design are very well understood ...just because you explain them in layman's language ...you have ste a benchmark , too high for a teacher n mentor RESPECT .. ..GRATITUDE .....
Thank you Sameer - I hope riders that understand this process will go into their community and help others. That is why I try to travel so much for this purpose - riders helping their fellow riders.
@@tonyalanmarchant9099 usually younger men that are.devoid of safety gear, disrespectful of tje bike, no mechanical sympathy i.e. bouncing an engine off the rev limiter when the gear box is static or in neutral, or clutch in or no load on engine or drivetrain. Oh the perfect example revving during exhaust system tests, revving instead of using the horn wheelies at high speed in traffic like the highway. Generally any person with a bike that acts in a way that makes other motorists hate all motorcyclists. And yes a dick in general.
Okay I simply wanted to say thank you! I was able to get my 08 cbr1000rr properly set up as I only weigh 150 and purchased from a 220lb man. Rides so so much better, even seems more flickable in the curves and just overall more control:) just hope I dont have it to soft.
Thanks for leveraging the content, rolling your sleeves up and making a difference for your CBR! Please share your settings so people that own this bike who are in your approximate weight range can see what you did, so that they can start their journey with your help. Thanks!
@@catalystreactionsbw its definitely not as perfectly tuned it would be with your touch. However I am very satisfied with the stability I now have. Going to get a couple more rides this week and I'll update the comment with final tune. (Wish it had notch settings) 5 11 146lbs. 08 cbr1000rr.
I stand to be corrected, but Dave started with all the way out ( open tap) 10 clicks out when he adjusted the rebound for the S1000RR. But the other chap said you should start all the way closed (tap closed) and then work your way out. So the S1000rr wasn't started at 3 clicks out from closed. Dave actually started it from 10 clicks out fully open. Just wanted to point this out, thanks. @10:53 & @15:05
Great point, excellent observation. If you start open, you get a more accurate rad on initial sag numbers. If the tap is closed, compression will hold the bike up so you will get a different reading. Anyone reading this comment that has adjustable suspension - try max preload and compression (measure), then remove all preload and compression (measure again). What was the difference? NOTE: don't forget to check for stiction: ua-cam.com/video/qK6_7oTF_bI/v-deo.html
Thank you so much for this. Using your video I was able to write a small cheat sheet to use at the track. Hopefully when the weather warms up here in Scotland I'll be able to put this into use. Thank you.
Thanks for the kind words and leveraging our content online. I am sure you will get a lot of benefit from your cheat sheet not only the next time at the track but for many years to come!
Thank you so much for sharing, I do take my bike to the local Suspension specialists (REVS) but it's nice to understand. Oh and I'll have an ice cream with flake and strawberry sauce please..thank you
Thanks for sharing your knowledge Mr. Moss. Me and my brother riding tracks on track days just for fun and learning as we go. These pieces of advice and knowledge are gold to us and help a bit in understanding what is going on. Thanks a lot! Keep going.
Amazing video my bike suspension was set at the shop and after watching the video I've went around the bike and front left fork damping was 4 clicks out from the right one
"Stiffening the spring" is not adding tension (only on a non rider loaded bike), but actually changing the place where the spring is acting at: so adding ride height and losing negative ...
Thanks a lot for a video, just a quick question here i have is, after fully tearing apart, and changing all seals and everything, should we set again all the adjustments ?
Thanks guys, I'm beginning to get it. I'm ashamed I haven't known these things years ago. Guess my riding buddies just looked out for me and adjusted my suspension if they saw an issue.
Im 210lbs. fully leathered. My front, on track, dives too much... rearend seems great on track. I know I'm not balanced though. On the road, rear bucks u off at higher spirited speed, front feels really comfortable but a bit soft. 06 cbr Honda f4i is what Im going to try out your recipe on. Thanks for all this info. Seriously important info you are giving me... I'm sittting on Dunlop q3 sportmax. Think, i will keep the same tires I'm used to. Temps run at my window of riding...ambient air about 88 to 98f. They perform nice on and off track with pressure attention. Just had to say it outloud.
Start with a cable tie on the front forks and mark bottom out to see how much travel you are using. Next, check static sag on the rear shock. Then check tire wear for rebound.
Question: At 5:12 “this is always compression” but then, At 6:50 “the preload is at the bottom” I’m not sure if I’ve missed something, but which is which?
A tradition USD fork has many forms and the BMW had preload and rebound at the top and compression at the base. Big Piston forks have any number of combinations as well but in the example, the preload adjuster 5mm allen is found at the base. In the last couple of years, some BPF have changed tondamping left leg and preload right leg - adjusters in the caps.
I wonder if when you buy your bike, is the tech supposed to measure the suspension ? How interesting !!!I have learned so much form you. I'll have to watch this video couple of times to really get it. But that's me.
When you buy the bike it is delivered to you with Factory settings as per manual. Once you have taken delivery, settings can change. To the best of my knowledge I was the only general manager of a Yamaha store that set the bike up for the owner when they took delivery of it prior to riding away. it is very unusual indeed.
preload first as that is steel and structural, then compression second for oil flow control. If you bottom, repeat the cycle. If you get to 80% of preload and compression, is your oil old or has your ability increased substantially so you need to revalve & respring?
@@catalystreactionsbwthanks for the response. I added on more preload and that brought my zip tie up about 2-3mm up from bottom out. (Still not enough in my opinion) However, the bike felt a bit less planted through the one fast right hander and I had minor headshake in that specific sweeping corner that I did not have previously. Would that have anything to do with it? That was my last session of the day however so I am curious how to precede? Thanks again for the replies.
NOTE: When they say "Damping" in this video, they are referring to REBOUND *AND* COMPRESSION. This is something that totally went over my head the first time I watched it. DAMPING IS HYDRAULIC, and again, it is set with rebound (abbreviated "TEN") and compression ("COMP").
Oil viscosity thicker or thinner and different volumes along with different size spacers. You can also change fork position for faster or slower turn in.
1:25 why would opposing sides have different colors? adjusting the 1 side be adjusting the other side as well? OR is it that the suspension is so strong, only 1 side is needed to have the desired effect, hence different color different sides..?
something in tension is being pulled , the front fork spring is always in compression , it is just more or less compression that you are adjusting on the spring. I'm not talking about dampening, just the springs loading. "In physics, tension is the pulling or stretching force transmitted axially along an object such as a string, rope, chain, rod, truss member, or other object, so as to stretch or pull apart the object. In terms of force, it is the opposite of compression."
I look forward to having fully active suspension where an ecu is doing all the adjusting for me except me choosing a setting....I would think with computers today that could be the optimal thing! I have semi active suspension on my 22 Yamaha T9gt ....I dont know how good or how bad it is but it seems to work so far for me....all the manual stuff just seems like voodoo to me I can not wrap my head around it Am I just beyond lazy? Or is it reasonable to want TECH to take over keep everything adjusted? Back in the day I had to constantly mess with carb jetting when racing MX and it was truly a PITA especially when racing at altitude etc but even changing expansin chambers or the weather etc made a difference ,,,,nowadays an ecu is adjusting the mizture! So wonderful! Suspension and EVERYTHING should be like that I think! Yes it will cost more! It will be WORTH IT IMHO lol! I just want to select HOW I am riding and let the computer make the changes....like sport, rain, comfort etc....Seems like sensors and servos etc could make changes as you ride the moment the conditions change the settings adjust! ya know?
When using preload adjusters which are just turns(like a 17 wrench on forks or an external shock adjuster),when nearing the maximum,there is always some resistance when you are near the end. To get a proper reading,do you stop immediately after you feel ANY resistance,or keep going a bit more?
Resistance will increase as the spring is under increased tension. I will go from mechanical stop to mechanical stop to find the range and know where I am. For reference, the owners manual will tell you how many revolutions you have for each adjuster so use that for your initial reference prior to making adjustments.
Dave Moss Tuning Yes.. I meant chart.. which shows rebound requires clock wise turn for xxx, click out etc.. or anti clockwise turn.. as a quick guide for us to setup or tune the suspension
Good day Dave, My name is Enrique, I am from Mexico and I have a bmw F700gs 2014. The forks have no adjustment at all, manual says that it has 550 ml of oil in each fork, in order to adjust them the way a like it, I think I can add or put less oil, then I use the motorcycle a few days and see how it works. Am I, right or wrong? And the increase of oil should be ? . I want the suspension stiffer.
Hi Dave, nice video, I have a z1000sx Kawa, which oil it's the best for your experience for the front fork? My style driving it's tourist, no races, but I don't sleep on the road. I ride alone, no passengers, sometime whit boxes back, ma not so often. Thank you for the answere. Nice world the suspension bikes world, I think one of the most complicate to know. Regards
Thank you for the kind words! For your situation, I would recommend 10w fork oil, Motul or Maxima seem to be readily available. Use the stock volume or oil height!
@@catalystreactionsbw Hi Dave, tanks for your information, My z1000sx year 2016 24K km, runs well, I update myself the settings front fork and back respect your video concerning exactly my bike. (Iam 85 kg ready to drive) But, one problem I had before and still exist. Shimming bar drive if I let the bar free in deceleration. Not to much but I have. Pression tire 2,5 /2,9 , I try less no change at all. Tires perfect balanced, bike never drop down etc etc, chain tension in the range, no play in the tree fork..What can I do?? suggestions?? many takes and regards... Piero
@@pierograndi5898 Hello Piero. If the bars move side to side on deceleration there are a couple of things to check. 1. Too much weight transfer forward as shock rebound is too fast. You might try to turn it half a turn left, then 1 turn right to see if that is true. If not, it goes 1/2 turn left back to the original position. Fork collapses too quickly so compression screw is too open. Turn it in 1/4 turn increments right to see if that is true. If not, turn it 1/2 turn left back to the original position. 3. Loosen the pinch bolts and ride the bike at 15 -20kph and brake several times. Tighten and torque the pinch bolts again and test.
@@catalystreactionsbw Hi Dave, I follow yours suggestions and I have resolve the problem, It was generated by the suspension front and rear I make harder just a little and...TOP!!! Many tanks Mr Dave, will be a pleasure drink a beer with you. Regards and thanks again Piero.
Hi Dave, thank you for the response. I should have elaborated better in my question. What i was wanting to understand is that for example on the S1000RR, you started by counting rebound on the right leg at 3 clicks from close and the left leg was 6 click out. Then you reset the left leg to 3 clicks out to match the right leg . Similar to compression on right leg was 5 click out and left leg was 2 click out and was reset the left to match the right. May i know how can i tell which leg is the correct one because i might mistakenly reset the right leg to match the left leg in the case of S1000RR for example. Because im still a beginner on suspension tuning :) My apologies for the confusion earlier and thanks again for making the video.
Hi Edward. Right leg/yellow is rebound. Left leg/red is compression. Both have 10 clicks to work with for each adjuster, all the way left being minimum (#1), all the way right being maximum (#10).
I have a 2009 Yamaha FZ1. I just added a new rear suspension that is sprung for my weight. My question is about the front suspension. Which side is compression and which side is rebound?
@@KR4Z3D666 Oh, I love ice cream, too... but why is it a motorcycle thing these days? I'll bet you the Hell's angels make stops for ice cream on their group rides.
Quick question for Dave or anybody else who might have an answer. I have a "new" '02 GSXR 750 that I'm attempting to set front sag on. The rear sag was perfect for me already. The front is coming in at 44 mm with me on the bike. I turned the preload adjusters a 6th of a turn at a time to one full revolution and the numbers didn't change at all. Should I just keep on cranking or what?
Just keep cranking on the preload as it is a very progressive spring. Then assess fork travel used to see if you can get to ideal travel, that being 15-25mm from the bottom of the chrome tube.
Had the same problem, change of springs with rate of 9mm/Nm to 9.5 and new compression shims fixed that for me. (Don't know the details of the shims though).
If you are in the last 25% of preload and compression towards maximum, you can add a small amount of oil to get the air spring effect to work better. If that fails the general rule is stronger springs and thicker oil or stronger spring and revalve.
7:43 what does fork position do? measuring distance from triple clamp to top of the fork? If you increase the protrusion, are you adjusting the rake and trail? i'm new to this and trying to make sense. 2017 HD Dyna S. What happens if they are off by 1mm. Would it cause a long term damage to the axle because left and right fork have different length?
When you increase the amount of fork showing above the triple clamp, you move the balance point of the bike forward. It may or may not change rake and trail depending on how stiff the forks springs are. It may quicken the turn in meaning less energy is required to initiate turn in. If you decrease the amount, you raise the front moving the balance point backwards. That may increase rake and trail. Hope this helps!
I have an 84 Honda VF750F that has numbers 1-4 on both sides. I am guessing that clockwise and counter clockwise would be the same on all bikes. Can we say the higher the number the stiffer and the lower the number the softer? The rear shock works on air pressure. No longer an aggressive rider..lol Street Settings? Gonna have to check the rear spring tension. Great Videos. Waiting for the 1/2 meter of snow to melt ...lol
Hi Brent. You are correct that 1 is minimum and 4 is maximum. Suggested is 3-5psi for the fork air pressure and rear shock is 7-40psi. So I would start with 25psi and test that plus 15 and 35psi. Set damping at 2 while you find the air pressure you need, then test 1 and 3 for damping BUT make sure you ride for an hour first prior to changing damping to make sure the oil is hot.
It is a known method used by tuners. Damping from maximum and count back, preload from minimum and count in. You can choose any method that makes sense to you - just document clearly and ALWAYS do the same practice with all bikes you own.
The time I watch your video Dave I’m so impressed.. i have 2020 MT09. My question is, I adjust my shock on the rear and front shock,do I need to adjust the front shock also? or stay on the factory level? Thanks you
Dave Williams, editor, replying here. As Moss said, that's correct... until the recent Showa BFF forks on the ZX-10RR and GSX-R1000R which have the preload in the top of both forks (same star screw adjuster) and the Comp & Reb damping screws below by the wheel in the lower casting of both forks. Looks like a bottle cap. there is a matching Comp and Reb bottle cap on the top of the shocks.
So …I heard here that preload adjusts sag. Does that mean that if I add maximum preload, I’m lowering the bike? Also, does adding preload mean I’m effectively lowering the range within which compression (downward) and rebound (back upwards) adjustments can be made?
@@jayvidz Remember that the lower tube slides down. When you make the spring stiffer it pushes the sliding leg down making the forks longer. Yes, the spring gets shorter.
Hi Dave why the older bikes have on both forks comp and rebound but the newer bikes not? My s1000rr 2015 have just one comp on one side and rebound also just on one side,so i can't adjust the compression on both forks why is that?I have also buy öhlins fgrt 200 forks,but there is the same have not left and right comp and left and right rebound. So how can you adjust the compression on both sides when there is only one compression on one fork? and why is there no imbalance? logically thought, both forks should have compression and rebound i don't understand this.
I have a Yamaha R1 2012 I have not seen a video How to adjust the front fork or the rear shock my front fork Has compression on the left only tension on the right The owner's manual says 20 clicks for the compression and 12 clicks for the tension.. And with the rear shock I'm having problem to have a little sag can you please make a video about that please
Here's a link to all the R1's. ua-cam.com/users/CatalystReactionSBWsearch?query=R1 I also have content on my website on the 2009 R1: davemosstuning.com/?s=Yamaha+R1 (look for 2012 to 2015). You will also need to watch this video: ua-cam.com/video/LSG3c5sNEDQ/v-deo.html
@@catalystreactionsbw Got it! Thanks so much Dave! love your videos man! I love to learn more about these setups and different types of forks and suspension setups as well as proper ergonomics.
thanks Dave! Hey I've seen you at Buttonwillow before, but I don't think you offer suspension support. By any chance will you be offering suspension support at BW? I just installed a MUPO Suspension on my K46. I need help setting it up. I want to say you go when Pacific Track Time is there. I ride BW Feb-Sept.
I do not work at Button Willow unless there is an AFM event or Carters at the Track has an event there. All other BW Track Day providers have contracts with other suspension vendors.
You can measure what you have and write the numbers down. Then look at the amount of shock travel used on the shock shaft: ua-cam.com/video/MCQE2wJnwh8/v-deo.html
@@catalystreactionsbw Thanks for responding. I really think I asked the wrong question - there is NO ADJUSTMENT for preload, so bike cannot be set up correctly? Like all your videos.
@@johnvale5352 If nothing is adjustable, we are left with observation. #1. Is the shock shaft 100% clean? If so the spring you have is too soft. if there is 1-3mm of dirt on the shaft above the bottom out bumper, the spring is correct. #2 the shock will need to be replaced between 10-15,000 miles as it is non serviceable. You can choose from any of the after market brands or choose a 675 adjustable/serviceable shock to go in its place.
@@irwantrop9581 Your forks are not adjustable so you need slightly heavier oil for better fork behavior. The rear is preload so you need to watch this video: ua-cam.com/video/3FeZJRiAXRk/v-deo.html
This man spent 15 minutes adjusting my dorsoduro at a bike night and absolutely changed my life. Every word Dave says is LAW. UPDATE: it was actually at the same place they filmed this.
There’s always some subjectivity to suspension tuning.
I don’t normally comment on things but this short clip has literally just taught me the most about my bike - this guy is the best I’ve listened to
I hope you continue to use other videos here to help you learn more!
The more videos I watch, the more I become assured that Dave Moss is some kind of deity. I understand the physics when he explains it, yet I´m amazed every time he tunes a bike into something rideable for each customer. It´s like he reads both people and bikes alike, and match them together. Pure poetry.
Yes, I do try to match the bike and rider together like fine wine and the requisite pairing. Thanks for that!
I have to say, for a long time I just left my '14 Vstrom stock because I was a little nervous about changing anything because I only had a basic knowledge of how the suspension all worked and sure did not want to screw things up or get them out of sync and not be able to return them back to stock. After watching a variety of these videos from you I figured why not try because my front end seemed really stiff and would bounce around on even a gravel road. I made some adjustments after making sure both were actually set the same I played with it and did the press tests (pushing down on the suspension) and ride tests. I want to say after just a little bit of adjustment it rode like a totally different bike. It remained in contact with the ground so well and the feel of that stability was wonderful!!! I have always loved this bike and now i love it even more after taking the plunge and finding that really good feel that was there all the time, I just had to find it!!! THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE GREAT INFORMATION IN THESE VIDEOS!
Dave Williams, editor, replying here. Fantastic! Thank you so much for taking the plunge and improving your bike. I know you'll inspire others to do so as well.
Thank you!!
Me too because I thought of coarse the factory know soooo much better than I till the Dynamic Duo Dave's gave me the confidence to at least explore my factory setup just to find the factory just spits them out willy-nilly with little thought to them. Now suspension is my first area of "upgrade". ;
@@bailey9r That might not be the factory, but the shop, as most bikes are assembled in-store and not shipped ready to ride.
@@bailey9r Thanks for making the time to take the next step by leveraging the DMT content.
I think I will be watching this a couple of more times ...
Study Study Study
+1 ;)
@@Mercury4952 ll
can't believe this is free information. thank you!
You are paying for you internet connection
@@abhishekmaurya6407 oh you got me.. I also pay for youtube red and 10 pornhub premium subscriptions so I guess this "free information" is actually really expensive!
All it costs is thumb up
I remember watching a youtube vid for onthethrottle TV, years ago, with Dave Moss talking about suspension adjustments. It was simple to follow, and it helped in my bike riding comfort confidence and experience. Thanks Dave.
Thank you for watching, leveraging the content andn
Thx for this detailed explanation.From a Belgian fan.
Hi, greetings from Portugal! This knowledge is priceless. Just want to say thank you very much! I learned more in yours 15 minutes video than in 25 years of street riding experience. Excuse me for my english mistakes but i'm not a english native speaker.
Dave Williams, editor, replying here. You're English is excellent. As soon as I get a few more financial ducks in a row, I'm moving to the Algarve.
Tugaa
Bro!!! This is LITERAL gold!!! This info is amazing. Thank you dave for blessing oht lifes with this knowledge. We arent worthy lol.
Thanks for watching and using the content to improve your own knowledge and settings.
Oh he's good alright.
Dave Moss Tuning hello fella where is ur accent from the south or midlands area from a Brighton boy
I owe you both a box of Scottish shortbread for this good video.
Thanks
I'll send the glass bottle Irn Bru... the good stuff, not that new sacharin filled weak sauce.
Thanks for such a piece of motorcycling education. This helped me greatly to tune my suspension.
Brilliant as always Mr Moss and Mr Williams
Learning is a process that starts with an inspiration to know more, after that with the right teachers it become infectious.
20 years ago I bought my first bike, a GPZ750r and tore down the front forks to understand how they worked.... well I needed to change the seals as they were leaking.
Years on and several bikes later I couldn't understand why people found bike suspension a mute point. You pointed out that people cannot discuss what they do not comprehend.
Well its been 5 months since I serviced the suspension on a GSX750F (04) the chatter it has started around that group of riders is getting louder and as always I point them towards your videos as it is such a great resource for learning to occur.
One of these riders i heard went to look at a Fazer 600 in a show room and was told it was fully serviced. when he asked does that include the forks and shocks the retailer scoffed at him with a "Noooo" to which he replied well its not fully serviced then and you can keep the bike.
I don't know about you, but every time I tear down a shock or a fork I learn something new and comprehend more. The hydraulic fluid for one tells a story. whether it has turned to chip pan oil or an emulsified goop neither state is desirable for efficient suspension that brings the bike to life.
I have been looking for a video like this, lets see how good it is, I hope I am not disappointed.
Great.Thanks to both of you. Clear, concise, on-topic. No BS padding. Just detailed, clean information.
Cheers, Peter
The best video I've seen about suspension and Mr. Editor you did a good job explaining 👍
Dave Williams, editor, replying here. Thank you!
I follow your flow of information,everywhere it leads me to ...it's just short of enlightenment.
That too because we can't meet you in person ..
But what information, knowledge and wisdom you prefer to share ...fir free ..
Most experts can't do that ,even if paid handsomely..
Suspension geometry,it's effects and intent of design are very well understood ...just because you explain them in layman's language ...you have ste a benchmark , too high for a teacher n mentor
RESPECT ..
..GRATITUDE .....
Thank you Sameer - I hope riders that understand this process will go into their community and help others. That is why I try to travel so much for this purpose - riders helping their fellow riders.
This is real useful information. The thing is to i guess adjust a little at a time and feel the difference on the road. Thanks Dave. You a magic man
Glad it was helpful!
I enjoy watching this even though I don't even own a sport bike.
I need one now.
Dave I hope all the "squids" find you and or your channel. You guys are the best motorcycle channel period
john carlson what constitutes a squid?general dick head?
@@tonyalanmarchant9099 usually younger men that are.devoid of safety gear, disrespectful of tje bike, no mechanical sympathy i.e. bouncing an engine off the rev limiter when the gear box is static or in neutral, or clutch in or no load on engine or drivetrain. Oh the perfect example revving during exhaust system tests, revving instead of using the horn wheelies at high speed in traffic like the highway. Generally any person with a bike that acts in a way that makes other motorists hate all motorcyclists. And yes a dick in general.
Best suspension video on UA-cam
excellent narration and editing. Thanks Guys
Every time something new and always easy to follow. I really enjoy.
I’m glad you guys explained tension….thank you…
👍
Nice content Mr Williams!
Very easy to understant, what a class.
Okay I simply wanted to say thank you! I was able to get my 08 cbr1000rr properly set up as I only weigh 150 and purchased from a 220lb man. Rides so so much better, even seems more flickable in the curves and just overall more control:) just hope I dont have it to soft.
Thanks for leveraging the content, rolling your sleeves up and making a difference for your CBR! Please share your settings so people that own this bike who are in your approximate weight range can see what you did, so that they can start their journey with your help. Thanks!
@@catalystreactionsbw its definitely not as perfectly tuned it would be with your touch. However I am very satisfied with the stability I now have. Going to get a couple more rides this week and I'll update the comment with final tune. (Wish it had notch settings) 5 11 146lbs. 08 cbr1000rr.
I stand to be corrected, but Dave started with all the way out ( open tap) 10 clicks out when he adjusted the rebound for the S1000RR. But the other chap said you should start all the way closed (tap closed) and then work your way out. So the S1000rr wasn't started at 3 clicks out from closed. Dave actually started it from 10 clicks out fully open. Just wanted to point this out, thanks. @10:53 & @15:05
Great point, excellent observation. If you start open, you get a more accurate rad on initial sag numbers. If the tap is closed, compression will hold the bike up so you will get a different reading. Anyone reading this comment that has adjustable suspension - try max preload and compression (measure), then remove all preload and compression (measure again). What was the difference? NOTE: don't forget to check for stiction: ua-cam.com/video/qK6_7oTF_bI/v-deo.html
I wish I saw this video when I had my R6. Would make it much more comfortable on the crap roads I have. My mt09 is a dream to ride now.
Your advice and teachings are awesome sir. Diamonds alike. Thank you and kindly keep them coming.
Thank you so much for this. Using your video I was able to write a small cheat sheet to use at the track. Hopefully when the weather warms up here in Scotland I'll be able to put this into use. Thank you.
Thanks for the kind words and leveraging our content online. I am sure you will get a lot of benefit from your cheat sheet not only the next time at the track but for many years to come!
Great job Dave you and you your speaker..he does a great job..youall keep you videos coming and be safe now..God bless always
Lol “jump in and pee all over the place.” Cheers
Thank you so much for sharing, I do take my bike to the local Suspension specialists (REVS) but it's nice to understand. Oh and I'll have an ice cream with flake and strawberry sauce please..thank you
ALMOST 100K SUBS. Love your vids guys. Learning so much.
Who in the world disliked this gold video
That's the "engineering crowd peeing all over the place" LOL
Thanks for sharing your knowledge Mr. Moss. Me and my brother riding tracks on track days just for fun and learning as we go. These pieces of advice and knowledge are gold to us and help a bit in understanding what is going on. Thanks a lot! Keep going.
Thank you for using the content to make your experience at the track far more positive!
Thanks Dave. One of the best videos by the best.
He's basically doing alignments for motorcycles it's amazing
They're not the same thing though, cars have alignement and suspension setting adjustment too, those equipped with adjustable that is.
Amazing video my bike suspension was set at the shop and after watching the video I've went around the bike and front left fork damping was 4 clicks out from the right one
Glad it helped!
"Stiffening the spring" is not adding tension (only on a non rider loaded bike), but actually changing the place where the spring is acting at: so adding ride height and losing negative ...
Thanks a lot for a video, just a quick question here i have is, after fully tearing apart, and changing all seals and everything, should we set again all the adjustments ?
I would reset hydraulics based on new oil, I would not change preload.
Thanks for a great video. The basics explained clearly.
Come back to Britain Dave we need you back!
Dave moss is a bad ass!!!! Is there a way to know where he will be to do adjustments?
Absolutely! davemosstuning.com/new-calendar/
Thanks guys, I'm beginning to get it. I'm ashamed I haven't known these things years ago. Guess my riding buddies just looked out for me and adjusted my suspension if they saw an issue.
I rode for a decade knowing nothing no making any changes, so I come from the same place. It is a journey - happy you are getting started with yours!
Thank you for this amazing video…was looking for this information for a long time
I appreciate you taking the time to comment and watch the video. Thank you!
Subbed. This channel is pure gold!
Holy Molly!
This is PURE GOLD!! Thanx for this!!
Subscribed and a huge fan of your channel!!
✌🏻😃
Thank you very much for enjoying the content and subscribing!
@@catalystreactionsbw Keep on rockin'!
Im 210lbs. fully leathered. My front, on track, dives too much... rearend seems great on track. I know I'm not balanced though. On the road, rear bucks u off at higher spirited speed, front feels really comfortable but a bit soft.
06 cbr Honda f4i is what Im going to try out your recipe on. Thanks for all this info. Seriously important info you are giving me... I'm sittting on Dunlop q3 sportmax. Think, i will keep the same tires I'm used to. Temps run at my window of riding...ambient air about 88 to 98f. They perform nice on and off track with pressure attention. Just had to say it outloud.
Start with a cable tie on the front forks and mark bottom out to see how much travel you are using. Next, check static sag on the rear shock. Then check tire wear for rebound.
Superb video, hooked on daves info now and spoke to him via fb - hopefully get my bike setup by him in the future in the UK!
Question:
At 5:12 “this is always compression”
but then,
At 6:50 “the preload is at the bottom”
I’m not sure if I’ve missed something, but which is which?
A tradition USD fork has many forms and the BMW had preload and rebound at the top and compression at the base. Big Piston forks have any number of combinations as well but in the example, the preload adjuster 5mm allen is found at the base. In the last couple of years, some BPF have changed tondamping left leg and preload right leg - adjusters in the caps.
@@catalystreactionsbw Excellent, thank you!
great vid as usual.... Man i would give a finger to spend a few months of "internship" at the tracks with Dave.hahahahah
Makes it look so easy.
I wonder if when you buy your bike, is the tech supposed to measure the suspension ? How interesting !!!I have learned so much form you.
I'll have to watch this video couple of times to really get it. But that's me.
When you buy the bike it is delivered to you with Factory settings as per manual. Once you have taken delivery, settings can change. To the best of my knowledge I was the only general manager of a Yamaha store that set the bike up for the owner when they took delivery of it prior to riding away. it is very unusual indeed.
If you’re bottoming out forks, would you add more preload or compression and why?
preload first as that is steel and structural, then compression second for oil flow control. If you bottom, repeat the cycle. If you get to 80% of preload and compression, is your oil old or has your ability increased substantially so you need to revalve & respring?
@@catalystreactionsbwthanks for the response. I added on more preload and that brought my zip tie up about 2-3mm up from bottom out. (Still not enough in my opinion) However, the bike felt a bit less planted through the one fast right hander and I had minor headshake in that specific sweeping corner that I did not have previously. Would that have anything to do with it? That was my last session of the day however so I am curious how to precede? Thanks again for the replies.
@@sackychin6267 Yes, if you added preload you may have created harshness. A little more rebound damping may have been useful to combat that.
NOTE: When they say "Damping" in this video, they are referring to REBOUND *AND* COMPRESSION. This is something that totally went over my head the first time I watched it. DAMPING IS HYDRAULIC, and again, it is set with rebound (abbreviated "TEN") and compression ("COMP").
Thanks! You can also add C for compression R for rebound and sometimes you will see REB in place of TEN. Look at your owners manual carefully!
This is priceless information, Thank you!
What about on a basic bike with no fork adjustment and only preload on the rear. Any tips and tricks for playing with these on the cheap?
Oil viscosity thicker or thinner and different volumes along with different size spacers. You can also change fork position for faster or slower turn in.
Great lessons Dave, I'm trying hard to understand...
Thank you for starting your journey. take one at a time beginning with static sag on the forks and rear shock. Then rebound, then compression.
1:25 why would opposing sides have different colors? adjusting the 1 side be adjusting the other side as well? OR is it that the suspension is so strong, only 1 side is needed to have the desired effect, hence different color different sides..?
something in tension is being pulled , the front fork spring is always in compression , it is just more or less compression that you are adjusting on the spring. I'm not talking about dampening, just the springs loading. "In physics, tension is the pulling or stretching force transmitted axially along an object such as a string, rope, chain, rod, truss member, or other object, so as to stretch or pull apart the object. In terms of force, it is the opposite of compression."
Great video! Thank you for sharing!
I look forward to having fully active suspension where an ecu is doing all the adjusting for me except me choosing a setting....I would think with computers today that could be the optimal thing! I have semi active suspension on my 22 Yamaha T9gt ....I dont know how good or how bad it is but it seems to work so far for me....all the manual stuff just seems like voodoo to me I can not wrap my head around it Am I just beyond lazy? Or is it reasonable to want TECH to take over keep everything adjusted? Back in the day I had to constantly mess with carb jetting when racing MX and it was truly a PITA especially when racing at altitude etc but even changing expansin chambers or the weather etc made a difference ,,,,nowadays an ecu is adjusting the mizture! So wonderful! Suspension and EVERYTHING should be like that I think! Yes it will cost more! It will be WORTH IT IMHO lol! I just want to select HOW I am riding and let the computer make the changes....like sport, rain, comfort etc....Seems like sensors and servos etc could make changes as you ride the moment the conditions change the settings adjust! ya know?
When using preload adjusters which are just turns(like a 17 wrench on forks or an external shock adjuster),when nearing the maximum,there is always some resistance when you are near the end. To get a proper reading,do you stop immediately after you feel ANY resistance,or keep going a bit more?
Resistance will increase as the spring is under increased tension. I will go from mechanical stop to mechanical stop to find the range and know where I am. For reference, the owners manual will tell you how many revolutions you have for each adjuster so use that for your initial reference prior to making adjustments.
Pure gold content! Thank you!
Do you have a special chart or quick guide for me to refer to on all these terms?. It will be much help rather than revisiting the whole video again
Sag & preload, set rebound and then compression, lastly pressures hot or cold (gain 4-5psi from cold)
Dave Moss Tuning Yes.. I meant chart.. which shows rebound requires clock wise turn for xxx, click out etc.. or anti clockwise turn.. as a quick guide for us to setup or tune the suspension
Good day Dave, My name is Enrique, I am from Mexico and I have a bmw F700gs 2014.
The forks have no adjustment at all, manual says that it has 550 ml of oil in each fork, in order to adjust them the way a like it, I think I can add or put less oil, then I use the motorcycle a few days and see how it works.
Am I, right or wrong? And the increase of oil should be ? . I want the suspension stiffer.
Hello Enrique. Depends on your weight - I need that prior to recommending fork oil viscosity.
Hi Dave, nice video, I have a z1000sx Kawa, which oil it's the best for your experience for the front fork? My style driving it's tourist, no races, but I don't sleep on the road. I ride alone, no passengers, sometime whit boxes back, ma not so often. Thank you for the answere. Nice world the suspension bikes world, I think one of the most complicate to know. Regards
Thank you for the kind words! For your situation, I would recommend 10w fork oil, Motul or Maxima seem to be readily available. Use the stock volume or oil height!
@@catalystreactionsbw Hi Dave, tanks for your information, My z1000sx year 2016 24K km, runs well, I update myself the settings front fork and back respect your video concerning exactly my bike. (Iam 85 kg ready to drive) But, one problem I had before and still exist. Shimming bar drive if I let the bar free in deceleration. Not to much but I have. Pression tire 2,5 /2,9 , I try less no change at all. Tires perfect balanced, bike never drop down etc etc, chain tension in the range, no play in the tree fork..What can I do?? suggestions?? many takes and regards... Piero
@@pierograndi5898 Hello Piero. If the bars move side to side on deceleration there are a couple of things to check. 1. Too much weight transfer forward as shock rebound is too fast. You might try to turn it half a turn left, then 1 turn right to see if that is true. If not, it goes 1/2 turn left back to the original position. Fork collapses too quickly so compression screw is too open. Turn it in 1/4 turn increments right to see if that is true. If not, turn it 1/2 turn left back to the original position. 3. Loosen the pinch bolts and ride the bike at 15 -20kph and brake several times. Tighten and torque the pinch bolts again and test.
@@catalystreactionsbw Hi Dave, I follow yours suggestions and I have resolve the problem, It was generated by the suspension front and rear I make harder just a little and...TOP!!! Many tanks Mr Dave, will be a pleasure drink a beer with you. Regards and thanks again Piero.
@pierograndi5898 Thank you for letting us know you found the solution!!
Hi Dave, thank you for the response. I should have elaborated better in my question.
What i was wanting to understand is that for example on the S1000RR, you started by counting rebound on the right leg at 3 clicks from close and the left leg was 6 click out. Then you reset the left leg to 3 clicks out to match the right leg . Similar to compression on right leg was 5 click out and left leg was 2 click out and was reset the left to match the right.
May i know how can i tell which leg is the correct one because i might mistakenly reset the right leg to match the left leg in the case of S1000RR for example. Because im still a beginner on suspension tuning :)
My apologies for the confusion earlier and thanks again for making the video.
Hi Edward. Right leg/yellow is rebound. Left leg/red is compression. Both have 10 clicks to work with for each adjuster, all the way left being minimum (#1), all the way right being maximum (#10).
Great explained boss,love listening to you 👍🇮🇳🇮🇳🇮🇳
I have a 2009 Yamaha FZ1. I just added a new rear suspension that is sprung for my weight. My question is about the front suspension. Which side is compression and which side is rebound?
Left is COM and right is TEN
@@catalystreactionsbw Did you mean right side is rebound?
@@twowheelpursuits TEN and REB are the same, and yes, right side.
@@catalystreactionsbw Thank you for that.
Ice cream truck at a track day? Wicked lol
What is it with motorcyclists and ice cream? Every time I do a group ride, there's always a stop at an ice cream shop.
@@cinnamonrollypoly Because it's cool and yummy :D
@@KR4Z3D666 Oh, I love ice cream, too... but why is it a motorcycle thing these days? I'll bet you the Hell's angels make stops for ice cream on their group rides.
@@cinnamonrollypoly If they did stop for icecream, I wouldn't blame them haha I stop at a pub for a feed and a beer.
Quick question for Dave or anybody else who might have an answer. I have a "new" '02 GSXR 750 that I'm attempting to set front sag on. The rear sag was perfect for me already.
The front is coming in at 44 mm with me on the bike. I turned the preload adjusters a 6th of a turn at a time to one full revolution and the numbers didn't change at all. Should I just keep on cranking or what?
Just keep cranking on the preload as it is a very progressive spring. Then assess fork travel used to see if you can get to ideal travel, that being 15-25mm from the bottom of the chrome tube.
@@catalystreactionsbw thank you my friend. I didn't want to start cranking, go too far and screw something up
Great video, much appreciate the info and delivery.
what if the fork is still go to bottom under braking with the compression fully close ?
Had the same problem, change of springs with rate of 9mm/Nm to 9.5 and new compression shims fixed that for me. (Don't know the details of the shims though).
What you need is more preload or a stiffer spring.
Or change the fluid that never hurts
Just get a new bike with a stiffer springs 😆
If you are in the last 25% of preload and compression towards maximum, you can add a small amount of oil to get the air spring effect to work better. If that fails the general rule is stronger springs and thicker oil or stronger spring and revalve.
Thanks for the video.. nice and easy to understand
7:43 what does fork position do? measuring distance from triple clamp to top of the fork? If you increase the protrusion, are you adjusting the rake and trail? i'm new to this and trying to make sense. 2017 HD Dyna S. What happens if they are off by 1mm. Would it cause a long term damage to the axle because left and right fork have different length?
When you increase the amount of fork showing above the triple clamp, you move the balance point of the bike forward. It may or may not change rake and trail depending on how stiff the forks springs are. It may quicken the turn in meaning less energy is required to initiate turn in. If you decrease the amount, you raise the front moving the balance point backwards. That may increase rake and trail. Hope this helps!
Dave Moss Tuning thank you!
How about air assisted forks or whatever? How do those work?
I have an 84 Honda VF750F that has numbers 1-4 on both sides. I am guessing that clockwise and counter clockwise would be the same on all bikes. Can we say the higher the number the stiffer and the lower the number the softer? The rear shock works on air pressure. No longer an aggressive rider..lol Street Settings? Gonna have to check the rear spring tension. Great Videos. Waiting for the 1/2 meter of snow to melt ...lol
Hi Brent. You are correct that 1 is minimum and 4 is maximum. Suggested is 3-5psi for the fork air pressure and rear shock is 7-40psi. So I would start with 25psi and test that plus 15 and 35psi. Set damping at 2 while you find the air pressure you need, then test 1 and 3 for damping BUT make sure you ride for an hour first prior to changing damping to make sure the oil is hot.
Do you have a video or can you make a video how to do this on een Kawasaki ZX7R 1996?
Great video!
If we could find one........
What's the reason for starting with the damping adjusters fully in/closed, as opposed to fully out/open like the preload adjuster?
It is a known method used by tuners. Damping from maximum and count back, preload from minimum and count in. You can choose any method that makes sense to you - just document clearly and ALWAYS do the same practice with all bikes you own.
On my rear suspension I have somthing that has 30 clicks from soft to hard what will that be changing?
Your owners manual will tell you. if there is only one adjuster on te shock you can use, it will be either preload or hydraulic damping.
How badass would it be to run into Dave Moss at a track day and get your suspension adjusted personally to you
and what about linear spring.if i add more preload what i can expect?thank you sir
If you add more preload with a linear spring you can expect less travel to be used by in small amounts er millimeters.
@@catalystreactionsbw Thank you for answer sir
The time I watch your video Dave I’m so impressed.. i have 2020 MT09. My question is, I adjust my shock on the rear and front shock,do I need to adjust the front shock also? or stay on the factory level? Thanks you
Try factory height on the forks to start for a couple of weeks, then change fork position by 7mm and see if you like the difference.
So does that mean on the Kawasaki all the dampening adjustment is in one tube and and all the preload is done in the other tube?
That is correct.
Dave Williams, editor, replying here. As Moss said, that's correct... until the recent Showa BFF forks on the ZX-10RR and GSX-R1000R which have the preload in the top of both forks (same star screw adjuster) and the Comp & Reb damping screws below by the wheel in the lower casting of both forks. Looks like a bottle cap. there is a matching Comp and Reb bottle cap on the top of the shocks.
@@catalystreactionsbw OK. So does that mean one tube takes care of dampening and the other preload? Or is one adjuster adjusting both tubes?
@@OregunAdventure damping is in one leg, and spring preload is in the other leg. They are unique.
Dave Moss Tuning hey thanks guys for the replies!
Awesome explanation! 👍🏻
Whats low/high speed compression damping?
Low speed is slow movement from an undulating surface, high speed is a violent impact from piot hole lip, railway line or manhole cover
I would like you to adjust my REPSOL suspension
I live in Richmond California, are we close by ?
Yes - trying to organize and event on Treasure Island. I will speak with MotoGuild next Wednesday.
Dave Moss Tuning
That’s great, Please let me know the day and time when you come to this area I will appreciate it. ✌️
So …I heard here that preload adjusts sag. Does that mean that if I add maximum preload, I’m lowering the bike?
Also, does adding preload mean I’m effectively lowering the range within which compression (downward) and rebound (back upwards) adjustments can be made?
If you add preload, the sag number can decrease and the height of the bike will rise as adding preload makes the forks and shock longer.
Interesting. The spring is getting shorter, but the shock is getting longer? Having a hard time visualizing it. Thanks for responding!
@@jayvidz Remember that the lower tube slides down. When you make the spring stiffer it pushes the sliding leg down making the forks longer. Yes, the spring gets shorter.
That helps. Thanks. How about in the rear where spring sits outside the shock? Bike is monster 821
. @jayvidz Same applies, but as a data point static sag decreases
Hi Dave why the older bikes have on both forks comp and rebound but the newer bikes not? My s1000rr 2015 have just one comp on one side and rebound also just on one side,so i can't adjust the compression on both forks why is that?I have also buy öhlins fgrt 200 forks,but there is the same have not left and right comp and left and right rebound. So how can you adjust the compression on both sides when there is only one compression on one fork?
and why is there no imbalance? logically thought, both forks should have compression and rebound i don't understand this.
My 07 Yamaha R1 is throwing to the left could it be the pre load is off
Check rear wheel alignment, check fork height is exactly the same on both sides, check fork settings are identical per leg.
I have a Yamaha R1 2012 I have not seen a video How to adjust the front fork or the rear shock my front fork Has compression on the left only tension on the right The owner's manual says 20 clicks for the compression and 12 clicks for the tension.. And with the rear shock I'm having problem to have a little sag can you please make a video about that please
Here's a link to all the R1's. ua-cam.com/users/CatalystReactionSBWsearch?query=R1 I also have content on my website on the 2009 R1: davemosstuning.com/?s=Yamaha+R1 (look for 2012 to 2015). You will also need to watch this video: ua-cam.com/video/LSG3c5sNEDQ/v-deo.html
so, zero is always out or closed like it was loosened tension right? is it a standard that clockwise is always out?
For compression and rebound, closed is clockwise to maximum and count back counter clockwise.
@@catalystreactionsbw Got it! Thanks so much Dave! love your videos man! I love to learn more about these setups and different types of forks and suspension setups as well as proper ergonomics.
Quick question for AnyBody who knows? Pre- Load Adjuster on Forks. Which lines do you Count?? The Small lines or the Fatter lines?
We count the small lines as an industry standard procedure.
12:50 what's best method to remove zip tie without damaging?
Carefully use cutters
Do you open com and ten befor you set the sag
That is one way to do it.
thanks Dave! Hey I've seen you at Buttonwillow before, but I don't think you offer suspension support. By any chance will you be offering suspension support at BW? I just installed a MUPO Suspension on my K46. I need help setting it up. I want to say you go when Pacific Track Time is there. I ride BW Feb-Sept.
I do not work at Button Willow unless there is an AFM event or Carters at the Track has an event there. All other BW Track Day providers have contracts with other suspension vendors.
2013 Triumph Speed Triple (not R) has no adjustment for rear preload. How to you measure rear sag if that's the case.
You can measure what you have and write the numbers down. Then look at the amount of shock travel used on the shock shaft: ua-cam.com/video/MCQE2wJnwh8/v-deo.html
@@catalystreactionsbw Thanks for responding. I really think I asked the wrong question - there is NO ADJUSTMENT for preload, so bike cannot be set up correctly?
Like all your videos.
@@johnvale5352 If nothing is adjustable, we are left with observation. #1. Is the shock shaft 100% clean? If so the spring you have is too soft. if there is 1-3mm of dirt on the shaft above the bottom out bumper, the spring is correct. #2 the shock will need to be replaced between 10-15,000 miles as it is non serviceable. You can choose from any of the after market brands or choose a 675 adjustable/serviceable shock to go in its place.
Hi sir... Can u make video off z800 kawasaki adjustment?
We have that on our list!
@@catalystreactionsbw owh great what headline yaaa? Sorry my english not soo good.... Btw nice meet u sir im from malaysia
Im mean which video can u help me sir?
@@irwantrop9581 Your forks are not adjustable so you need slightly heavier oil for better fork behavior. The rear is preload so you need to watch this video: ua-cam.com/video/3FeZJRiAXRk/v-deo.html
@@catalystreactionsbw thanxs sir for your advice really appreciate.... Im new in bike so need more knowledge to handle this z8.... Really thanxs
Thank you Dave and Dave