Anyone who reads my comments knows I am often critical but the videos made by Dave Moss are the jewels of UA-cam when it comes to setting up your bike. This is important stuff here. You might think numb hands is no big deal but it can sneak up on you. You're riding and you get tingles and don't pay much attention, you shift weight and maybe change your grip a bit and think it's all good. Then you need to stop and find your fingers aren't working. Your fingers are on the brake lever but you can't feel it or just as bad, can't moderate the brake force. No ABS is going to save you. Watch and listen this man, he knows and the way you can tell between that and all the other videos is he explains what he says without fanfare, just reasoned and factual information. After more years of riding than most people have been alive, (remember Indian mini-bikes?) I learn something every time I watch a Dave Moss Tuning video. I know, it sounds cheesy and like an ad but unless you know it all then watch his videos and learn more.
Thank you so much for your gracious comment. I sincerely appreciate you sharing your opinion based on the content itself. Keeping the information sharp, concise and to the point seems to be very helpful to riders, hence always using this format. Thanks again and my best wishes to you for 2025.
Dave has transformed my last 2 bikes with his set up advice. I now understand static sag and motorcycle ergonomics, very important as I’m 6ft 4ins and Japanese bikes are not set up for my size and weight. Thanks Dave.
@@catalystreactionsbw I had a chance to consult with you back at a repair shop in Emeryville CA. So glad to see you still in the game, your contribution to the industry as always filling a big need. A most memorable experience, your advice to purchase an old FZ! over a decade ago continues to pay off in spades. I ended up moving to Albuquerque by way of using that machine hooked up with cases and it did the job like a dream. Thanks. Noel G.
@@noelgillett346 Thank you very much for posting your thoughts on your experience via our conversation! Glad to know there was and are positive outcomes from it!
IM at the OPOSIT SITE. Since im a relatively short guy (for nowadays standard) (IM LIKE 1, 64 m) Those new NINJA 400 AND 650 are a HEAVEN BECAUSE OF THE NEW TRIANGLE. BUT the SUPERMOTOS (and trail) are the MOST CONFORTABLE THING for me because the seat leaves you SO CLOSE to the handlebar and its high so i keep my lower+ upper back + arms very relaxed. AND its EASY to switch positions because the seat is just a straight line. I can even sit in the rear if i want or need. I have a ninja 300 and the distance from tank to bars are far. Also the set to pegs are a little less than i wish. ive PUT some risers in the handlebars, its got better for the arms and for my balls and hips but worse for my back since im not that lean and now i can "curve" my spine.
I remember a previous video of yours I saw a few years ago where you asked some track riders this exact same thing. You said "what's the first thing you modified?" And they all said "exhaust". You then had them sit on their bikes and explained the importance of "Ergos" where you adjusted the bar distance, bar angle and clutch & brake handles for maximum comfort with what they had. I had just recently bought a second-hand z900, and the previous owner had only modified the exhaust as well 😂 I'm a tall guy, and I hadn't realized how hunched over I was and how much I had to twist my hands for the bar & handles, or that I could fix it. I immediately went and got a riser and adjusted the sweep & put the handles in line with my arms, and the relief was immense. Never would have thought about it without your video. Thanks so much for 3 years of pain-free commuting ♥️
Thanks for sharing Scott. I hope your post will convince all riders to takle a look at ergonomics and at least evaluate what they have. 3 years of pain free commuting as a net result is a clear statement that you can get it right!
First bike was 06 FZ6-S and I loved bike but my back, shoulders and hands were killing me after 1+ hour of riding it. Never really understood what was problem. At first I thought I just have to get "used" to ride a bigger bike. After 1 year I decided to get Tracer 900 GT and from moment I sat on it I felt as comfortable as I could have dreamed of. Did 25 hour ride (about 1600km) on it with small stops and other than my azz hurting from that long ride I had 0 issues. Now when I actually saw this video, it all makes sense. Handlebars are much wider, straighter and taller than FZ6 and lucky enough are exactly as they have to be for no pain at all. Thanks for video!
So that bike is definitely built for the shorter rider then , great to see you back Dave, you've taught us all so much over the years, your a legend 👍🏼👌🏼
I have had my new 2023 Honda Rebel 1100 DCT for two months and swapped out the seat for a Corbin because the OE seat was uncomfortable. I have no issues with the fit of my bike!! Excellent motorcycle and I have over 5000 km on it!!
I agree with your intro Dave. With time, I realized that when it comes to choose a bike, there's a huge difference between what you want and what you really need...
Building core strength helped me with wrist, shoulder and between the shoulder blades pain on my K1200GT. Core carrying my torso weight instead of supporting it pressing on the grips. I still occasionally catch myself supporting my torso weight by leaning on the grips instead of using my core. The peg height and slightly behind position initially caused knee and hip pain. I noticed I was carrying my body weight on the pegs. I learned to relax my hips and sit on the seat rather than sitting on the pegs. My pain wasn’t so much the ergonomics of the bike as it was I didn’t have the fitness or awareness how the ergonomics affected me. Increased fitness and awareness where and how I carried the weight significantly reduced fatigue and aches.
No! Do an experiment... hold a flat palm away from you as if pushing someone away. Look at the angle of your fingers, they wont be vertical to the ground. Move your hand so they are vertical, you feel your chest and shoulder get tight. The ideal position to gold ANY bar in any situation is to have the bar acros the palm of your hand so our elbows HAVE to be out. If your elbows are in, the stress is through small arm muscles. To engage the larger back muscles rotate your elbows up. ALL bike training courses advise this, from flat tracking to motorcross to road riding. And by doin this your weight will be split across your bum and back, and will make the bike feel larger and less compact.
What Dave has described equates to why my 1982 Honda CB900F is such a comfortable long distance ride. There aren’t many new bikes other than a Goldwing that have the perfect ergonomics triangle and comfy seat. Great video.
This may sound wrong but I woke up thinking of you and a video pops up on my UA-cam feed 😂 I definitely overlooked these simple things. Amazing how they make a huge difference. Priceless knowledge
This gentleman seems sincere and wants the best for us. He's helping us fix our bike problems with as he said "minimum investment". I have subscribed :) i hope i get a reply!
I had a Suzuki RF900RW (I sorely miss it, it was phenominally underrated bike), but I also modified her with a coupla 'Tweeks', first to raise the standard 'Clamp on' handlebars, then I moved onto the Bandit 1200 Yoke & 1 piece par setup, WHAT A DIFFERENCE! Night and day!!! So for the guys & gals that aren't aware, YES, IF your current 'Steed' makes you uncomfortable, look for 'XXXXXX' (being your bikes' make and model) & Handlebar risers/replacement kit", get it fitted correctly by a qualified/experienced bike tech, and you WILL ride with more confidence because of less pain! What's more, you may very well find you have more control over your 'Beastie' too! 👌👍 😎🇬🇧
Your videos are such a compendium of knowledge! I have begun watching as many as I can to improve both my bike and myself in our symbiotic relationship on the road. One thing that has disappointed me with my new RS457 is the one-piece top triple clamp/clip-on. You simply cannot lower the front brake lever far enough to stop potential throttle roll on when reaching for the lever, due to the one-piece MC hitting the bar tube not far down from level. Given this is a big issue, I have resigned myself to buy a new radial master cylinder kit. I'd rather not risk a crash for the sake of coin! Thankyou Dave for your insights!
Years ago l owned a Guzzi Lemans 850 and a Ducati 900 bevel drive. these bikes were of course 'cafe racer/road racer' style bikes...before the term Sports bike was commonly used. l would move the Clip-ons, plus the angle of the control levers. But one just had to suffer for the sake of 'The look' ...Now, more than forty years later ....I'm listening Dave..!
Awesome content as always! You have opened my eyes and showed me the way. Suspension and ergo! Many thanks for all that you do! Hope to meet you someday.
Great explanation of Fit. I'm 6ft.2 - long inseams and arms. First bike was a 2006 Honda 599 Hornet and the hand position at the end of the bars rang so very true. I would ride with my palms at the edge of the grips with half my hand off, straightened at a different angle. Change in bars helped immensely. Upgraded to a 2009 Triumph Speed Triple - my goodness what a difference the riding triangle makes for comfort. As always, Thank You for the great videos and explanations. They've all been excellent, a huge catalogue of knowledge and value.
Dave, you have to be, the most informed, informative and authoritative motorcycle channel on the planet…it’s great your British! Others dabble and recycle everyone else’s “expertise”, which to an extent is ok. However, you truly are an expert and you communicate in a calm, composed and logical manner. Thank you for an excellent channel.
Been shopping for a new/ used bike without ever giving thought to ergonomics like this. Lol being 54 and riding since a child I am still csb learn new things. Thank you for giving me more to think of.
Thank you so much for all your videos… they’re among the best of the best!! I’m 56 years old and bought my last sport bike - a 2016 BMW S1000RR and start getting the wrist cramps around the one hour mark… your advice is much appreciated Sir… Kudos!!
This is exactly how I feel on my MV F3800 plus add in hip and lower back pain! After about 1.5hrs I need to stop and stretch it’s extremely frustrating especially when riding with other people. Thanks for the info Dave!
He goes more in depth regarding hand/wrist position in a couple other videos. Here's one on averall ergonomics I found helpful: ua-cam.com/video/WmiUh7W6URw/v-deo.html Anyway, the more reach on a bike, the more pressure on hands, and all the more pain a mismatched setup brings.
@wobblysauce facts! That comment needs to be pinned. I have had gsxr 1ks for about 85% of my riding time and used to think the long ride discomfort was jus bc I'm stretched out, but putting in the time and effort to do what Dave says (even when u think u know your bike better) has changed my mental approach as well. So now my bike handles a LOT better, I'm positioned more comfortable now too, and I know I still have more room for improvement and an "uncomfortable sportbike" doesn't have to be a joy killer.
I think the majority of riders buy the wrong bike. Unfortunately the majority of riders aren't open to learning. Love your video's Dave and have been watching for years
Thank you for your kind words! I agree based on the pain I misery I hear about every day that I work. Instead of getting the right ergo's it has to be bling or performance.
Now i understand why my arms hurt so much each time i ride to work. I kept thinking it was my riding posture, but i think it is the bike. Thank you for the video!
I hope that proves to be the case and thanks for the kind words about the video. Please post what changes you made the created much greater comfort for you so others can learn.
I have 175k miles on a 1998 Bandit 1200. Been all over the US with it. The secret? A modified Corbin seat cut flat to the gas tank and flat, "drag" bars, slight bend. The pegs are neutral; I can sit on it all day.
Intriguing set of ergonomics. Certainly for me as a 6’3” long legged individual. I sold a 2016 BMW R1200R and bought a 2019 BMW R1250GS, purely because the leg room of the R was too cramped (feet trucked up a touch too high). The measurement was that with my hand hanging down from a seated position I could touch my heels on the R, whilst on the GS my feet were a good 4” lower and my legs weren’t so cramped. Result happiness. Don’t get me wrong the R was a brilliant bike - I was just too tall for it. But here’s an oddity… recently 2,700 miles across the USA two up (me driving) on a 2023 Heritage Softail and it was pure bliss to ride for 300+ miles per day. I was very surprised - but also very aware that was “sit back and enjoy the scenery” riding. Not much in the way of UK country “A” or “B” roads. I really didn’t expect it to be that comfortable. Bearing in mind a 2006 Road King (in 2006) gave me quite a lot of pain in the small of my back after similar daily distances. Great video - if I can just suggest that you stick to one imperial or metric measurement please. I know it covers all bases, but it’s harder to cross relate when you give two bike’s dimensions in two separate units.
Dave, me old son, that's an interesting video and I'll certainly be giving that a bit of thought. I rode my XR650R from Sacramento to Cabo San Lucas, when I got there I was literally in physio for 2 months (I have herniated disks and it really kicked them off). My main issue was sitting on a 4x2 plank of wood for a dirt bike seat shuffling from one arse cheek to another, this has been changed for a much better Renazco seat, expensive but totally worth it. I have plenty of seat to handlebar room of course depending how much shit I am carrying but I will look at those other measurements for sure as I'm planning on some other long rides. Good video that though. Glad to see you up and running as well mate. All the best Youngie...
My friend added a Renthal bar to his Yamaha R1. And he loves it !! Comfort increased a lot for him, and he is still just as fast !! Great to see you back again on the Channel 😊
Hi Dave. I've been riding daily since 1974, owned bikes since 1970. Your videos always educate me. Thanks heaps. I hope you will excuse me if I offer you a little education, all be it from an Australian perspective. Thanks for using metric measurements. In Aus cm aren't to be used in engineering, building, or architecture. The metric system is based on lots of 10 to the power of 3. micro, milli, kilo, mega etc. Centimetres are 1/100 so don't fit. So inches and feet have been recognised engineering units, centimeters have never been. Maybe I'm completely wrong here because you are talking about body dimensions and cm are used in medicine. Thanks again for your clear accurate educational videos. Keep the shiny side up.
Good explanation. I have the same issues on current bike and almost none on a test ride with an other. Despite it being leaning towards the front too. So I now understand the complete issue with these factors.
This video highlights a common problem with new bikes: the seats are cramped slots, placed behind a high and bulging gas tank. Then you have to lean over and around this tank to get at the handlebars. The bars are constructed for visual style, instead of comfort. Big "adventure" bikes are some of the worst offenders - exactly those bikes you would think would have figured out long haul rider comfort. But motorcycle stylists are currently fixated on the "angry insect" look - hard edges and angles, minimalist seats, tiny rear passenger space and skimpy little steel foot pegs. The wide and sensible handlebars of, say, the 1960's British road bikes need to be rediscovered. I have a BMW R1150 - and it seats quite close to my first bike, a 650 Triumph Saint, which the British police used for years.
Good to see you up and posting again, Dave. I'm 5'10" and blessed w/a gorilla-esque physique. On my former Ninja 1000, I added Murph's risers- they didn't address the angle issue but added some height and backwards movement-, grip puppies, HVMP bar ends and a throttle lock to add some comfort on my ailing, aching. elderly shoulders. I tried a number of different seats but ended up w/a seat designed by a local auto upholsterer. I also added footpeg lowering brackets to give my knees and hips a bit more room- voila! Still wasn't perfect but it was a much better fit for my riding purposes and needs. You gotta make the bike fit you!
Thank you - great post and thank you for sharing what you did to get as much comfort as you could given your physique and age. Great stuff to inspire others not to suffer!
i'm always amazed at how few motorcyclists sort the ergonomics of their bikes. it's always the thing i pay first attention to, risers, bars, seat height, before anything else... you wouldn't even drive a hire car without adjusting the seat to suit you, bum to pedal, backrest to steering wheel and gear lever, so why would you ride your own motorbike without sorting your foot to bum to hand relationship?
I am fortunate enough to own 5 motorcycles. I have found that the bars that have more sweep cause hand cramps and my wrists to get numb and sore. One of the first things I do is upgrade the handlebars to suit my needs and body.
This is why I ride older bikes from the 60s and 70s. The seats are wider and flat so it is easier to position yourself. Also American style handlebars which are higher give a much more upright relaxing ride. It means little pressure on the wrists. The geometry on most modern bikes is all wrong and not suitable for longer rides. This is why many bikers are returning to more classic style motorcycles.
Made a massive difference adjusting the lever angle to how comfortable I felt operating the bikes controls, that I began to shift my weight toward the outside of the bike on corners, which would indicate an increase in confidence. Looks like handlebar angle/height is next on the list.
At 6ft 2 I had to get the seat of my BMW XR customised so that i could sit further back to reduce the hip/knee angle. Also an opportunity to make the seat more comfortable. The OEM was a bucket style seat with no room to move.
Good information, you are lean forward on the handlebar on straight hands, that will put pressure on palm of your hands and also lower back pain. I had the problems with my naked bike, lean forward on the handlebars, changed the handlebar to high adventure handlebar plus risers, now I have adventure sport bike! Much more comfortable, upright setting position!
I really appreciate the breakdown in measurements and reasons. Being short my main issue is height. I'm used to hands narrow on bars, clutch lever needing replaced or on a cable clutch people want to adjust it as i have it all or nothing. I ride upwards of 5 hours and have found the odd hand aches (1 inch cruiser bars) and recently riding a much larger cruiser a pain on the top of my right elbow. Its definitely bike induced. I am busy setting up an RF900R and am going to remember your suggestions. Thank you for sharing.
Thank you for watching and take the time to get pictures of yourself on the RF and cruiser to assess your ergonomics. This is a very critical step as you are aware to rol the bars back and forth AND left to right to make you as a unique human, sit a in centered position.
a mod video for this bike (because it's a popular bike that many people have) will be good to show the difference and parts that would make a difference.
Awesome video! 👍 I recently adjusted my rear shock which increased my seat height and provided better stability while riding. This made a tremendous benefit to my rides. I think I might take a look at handlebar next from watching your video. 🙃
I ride a CBR1000RR since I was 27 years old. I am now 47 and still riding it. Same bike. Just about the only thing that hurts is my butt after about 2 hours. But never any pain the following day of a ride. Is it the most comfortable bike? No. Does it handle nicely. Hell yes. Would I trade it? No. Would I change anything? No. I have recently even installed a 47 litres Givi top box on it where the passenger seat should be. Nothing touches the paint work. Moto camping ⛺️ with the old CBR now. 🤩 The ultimate supersport tourer..!! 🥳
Glad to see you are back Dave!! Hope you are feeling better, doing better. Love that you are talking about the rider triangle...I've definitely modified my rides to better suit my reach/shoulder width over the years...VFR1200 I'm looking at you :P
That bike is more suited for someone of a shorter and narrower build. Try before you buy to see if you fit the bike. I am just under 5 Foot 7 inches in height with a 29 inch inseam. My bike is a Suzuki GSX650F which I cant flat foot on but, once moving, the ergos are good for me. With a lot of different bike and riders, there are always going to be compromises.
That is solid advice! I always wonder how motorcycle journalists are criticizing handlebars and things like this. That´s the first thing I change when it doesn´t fit. Most of the time the reach doesn´t work with the width, and additionally the back sweep of the bar is not ideal. Probably rotating the bar helps, but only if the bike doesn´t get too twitchy or sluggish; depending if too far forward or backward rolled. I come from mountainbiking and there reach and stack are the two factors you look into.
At 62, I bought my current machine with ergonomics first. I bought a GSXS 1000GT + knowing full well that I need a bike with wider and taller bars, a more upright riding position and a minimum of knee bend. The only drawback is my old ass gets sore after 150 miles 😂😂😂
The manufacturer should make the bar adjustable, provide the range of dimensions for the rider triangle the bike supports, also provide what height and weight of rider they set up the bike for. Better yet the dealer should be able to set up the ergonomics according to the buyer's height and weight etc. . it would be also better if the manufacturer also provided alternate bars for riders which do not fall to the initial range supported.
The problem is cost. everything you mention would add additional costs that most are unwilling to pay for. And its cheaper for the owner to do it themselves.
@@spartanx169x they must be using some standard when they pass the design as acceptable and safe etc. All they have to do is publish it. I don't think that would cost that much. to add few pages of information.. The dealer has to set up the bike anyway. They must be receiving some instructions on how to set it up. They just need to plug in the buyer's dimensions.
Good one! I commute daily on my HD Low Rider S and I get neck C-6 to T-1 neck pain (Cervical 6 vertebrae to Thoracic 1st vertebrae) and numb hands. Looking into new seat and handle bars and risers which will allow me to lean back some. I think that will make the difference. Like to see a more in-depth video where you actually make the changes and ride it then tell us if it made a difference
Hi Dave, thanks for your passionate work that helped thousands of people, hopefully you could help me too, i'm having a hard time entering corners while trail braking, it feels like the bike doesn't want to tip in and kinda wants to stand up, i feel like i have to use a lot of counter steer to compensate and it doesn't feel natural, i'm riding a KTM 890 Duke R, mostly sporty street riding through twisty roads, my weight is around 90kg, suspension travel is 150mm rear and 140mm front, thank you and greetings :)
Thanks for the kind words! Trail braking and "fight" is 90% of the time rebound too fast. You can check that with the leading edge being worn down on the tread pattern (see Contact Patch playlist for rebound wear). At ther same time, check the rear wear on both sides.
Dave, I have 2 bikes I'm currently playing with the triangle issue. A 2013 Diavel AMG and a 2003 FZ1. I picked up the Ducati yesterday morning after they installed custom bar extenders, and it's as close as I can get with it. Hopefully, the FZ1 will be completed this week with a 3 1/2-inch riser/extender and it'll be more squared away. Had to have the throttle cable extended out of state. After that, I'll need to reach you to set up these guys. Many thanks!
I wish I saw this a year ago... without having to figure it out on my own... So I picked up a Harley Road Glide 3 Trike and these had 11 inch handlebars so I said to myself cool I won't have to swap out bars like I did with my 2 wheel Road glide which had 9 inch handlebars. Well, it wasn't until I too the trike out for a really long ride that I found out my triangle was way off. At 75 miles into the ride my legs were hurting and my rotator cuffs started hurting and my right hand was starting to go numb. The pain was so bad that I thought I might not make it home. But when I did even 1000 mgs of Motrin didn't t do anything for the pain. For the next 5 days the pain in the rotator cuffs were some of the most excruciating pain I ever experienced. Needless to say the rotators did heal to the point I was able to get back on the trike so I adjusted the handlebars and just on a short trip to the store my rotator cuffs felt like I put them through a workout (yes, they were in pain mode again). It wasn't until I changed out my bars to the same one's I have on my 2 wheel Road Glide did I find the solution. 1 inch made a huge difference plus with these bars I was not only able to do the normal forward and back adjustment but I was able to both left and right side individually. I remember seeing your other videos years ago talking about the importance of proper hand placement on grips and making the adjustments. So I was able to adjust the right and left side correctly so I did not experience anymore pain in the rotator cuffs... funny thing is of ride motorcycles for 40 sum odd years I never experienced the pain like that. Of course, many will say it's a trike you're going to use your upper body more the make turns thing of it is I'm not turning for 75 miles so the proper set up on your bike is very important.
I found out real fast that riding position had to be perfect if I was to take my adv bike through a rock garden without dumping it. On a paved road the extra grip and smooth ride can hide bad habits or bad ergonomics.
Glad to see you back Dave!! Hope you're doing well.
Anyone who reads my comments knows I am often critical but the videos made by Dave Moss are the jewels of UA-cam when it comes to setting up your bike.
This is important stuff here. You might think numb hands is no big deal but it can sneak up on you. You're riding and you get tingles and don't pay much attention, you shift weight and maybe change your grip a bit and think it's all good. Then you need to stop and find your fingers aren't working. Your fingers are on the brake lever but you can't feel it or just as bad, can't moderate the brake force. No ABS is going to save you.
Watch and listen this man, he knows and the way you can tell between that and all the other videos is he explains what he says without fanfare, just reasoned and factual information. After more years of riding than most people have been alive, (remember Indian mini-bikes?) I learn something every time I watch a Dave Moss Tuning video. I know, it sounds cheesy and like an ad but unless you know it all then watch his videos and learn more.
Thank you so much for your gracious comment. I sincerely appreciate you sharing your opinion based on the content itself. Keeping the information sharp, concise and to the point seems to be very helpful to riders, hence always using this format. Thanks again and my best wishes to you for 2025.
Dave has transformed my last 2 bikes with his set up advice. I now understand static sag and motorcycle ergonomics, very important as I’m 6ft 4ins and Japanese bikes are not set up for my size and weight. Thanks Dave.
Thank you posting!
@@catalystreactionsbw I had a chance to consult with you back at a repair shop in Emeryville CA.
So glad to see you still in the game, your contribution to the industry as always filling a big need.
A most memorable experience, your advice to purchase an old FZ! over a decade ago continues to pay
off in spades. I ended up moving to Albuquerque by way of using that machine hooked up with cases
and it did the job like a dream. Thanks. Noel G.
@@noelgillett346 Thank you very much for posting your thoughts on your experience via our conversation! Glad to know there was and are positive outcomes from it!
IM at the OPOSIT SITE. Since im a relatively short guy (for nowadays standard) (IM LIKE 1, 64 m) Those new NINJA 400 AND 650 are a HEAVEN BECAUSE OF THE NEW TRIANGLE.
BUT the SUPERMOTOS (and trail) are the MOST CONFORTABLE THING for me because the seat leaves you SO CLOSE to the handlebar and its high so i keep my lower+ upper back + arms very relaxed. AND its EASY to switch positions because the seat is just a straight line. I can even sit in the rear if i want or need.
I have a ninja 300 and the distance from tank to bars are far. Also the set to pegs are a little less than i wish.
ive PUT some risers in the handlebars, its got better for the arms and for my balls and hips but worse for my back since im not that lean and now i can "curve" my spine.
True indeed, you’ve got 4 inches of height on me so I can only imagine
I remember a previous video of yours I saw a few years ago where you asked some track riders this exact same thing. You said "what's the first thing you modified?" And they all said "exhaust". You then had them sit on their bikes and explained the importance of "Ergos" where you adjusted the bar distance, bar angle and clutch & brake handles for maximum comfort with what they had.
I had just recently bought a second-hand z900, and the previous owner had only modified the exhaust as well 😂 I'm a tall guy, and I hadn't realized how hunched over I was and how much I had to twist my hands for the bar & handles, or that I could fix it. I immediately went and got a riser and adjusted the sweep & put the handles in line with my arms, and the relief was immense.
Never would have thought about it without your video. Thanks so much for 3 years of pain-free commuting ♥️
Thanks for sharing Scott. I hope your post will convince all riders to takle a look at ergonomics and at least evaluate what they have. 3 years of pain free commuting as a net result is a clear statement that you can get it right!
Great job explaining after 50 years of riding I have learned something new
First bike was 06 FZ6-S and I loved bike but my back, shoulders and hands were killing me after 1+ hour of riding it. Never really understood what was problem. At first I thought I just have to get "used" to ride a bigger bike. After 1 year I decided to get Tracer 900 GT and from moment I sat on it I felt as comfortable as I could have dreamed of. Did 25 hour ride (about 1600km) on it with small stops and other than my azz hurting from that long ride I had 0 issues. Now when I actually saw this video, it all makes sense. Handlebars are much wider, straighter and taller than FZ6 and lucky enough are exactly as they have to be for no pain at all. Thanks for video!
Love ya Dave!!! It's always a good morning when there's one of your videos in my feed. 😉
So that bike is definitely built for the shorter rider then , great to see you back Dave, you've taught us all so much over the years, your a legend 👍🏼👌🏼
I have had my new 2023 Honda Rebel 1100 DCT for two months and swapped out the seat for a Corbin because the OE seat was uncomfortable. I have no issues with the fit of my bike!! Excellent motorcycle and I have over 5000 km on it!!
Dave, your the best. I always enjoy your insights into what makes a bike work better for the individual rider. Thanks again for the great content.
Thank you - I appreciate you taking the time to post and sincerely appreciate your support!
I agree with your intro Dave. With time, I realized that when it comes to choose a bike, there's a huge difference between what you want and what you really need...
Building core strength helped me with wrist, shoulder and between the shoulder blades pain on my K1200GT. Core carrying my torso weight instead of supporting it pressing on the grips. I still occasionally catch myself supporting my torso weight by leaning on the grips instead of using my core. The peg height and slightly behind position initially caused knee and hip pain. I noticed I was carrying my body weight on the pegs. I learned to relax my hips and sit on the seat rather than sitting on the pegs. My pain wasn’t so much the ergonomics of the bike as it was I didn’t have the fitness or awareness how the ergonomics affected me. Increased fitness and awareness where and how I carried the weight significantly reduced fatigue and aches.
I would like to see a part two of this video, where you get more in depth into motorcycle comfort
No!
Do an experiment... hold a flat palm away from you as if pushing someone away.
Look at the angle of your fingers, they wont be vertical to the ground.
Move your hand so they are vertical, you feel your chest and shoulder get tight.
The ideal position to gold ANY bar in any situation is to have the bar acros the palm of your hand so our elbows HAVE to be out.
If your elbows are in, the stress is through small arm muscles.
To engage the larger back muscles rotate your elbows up.
ALL bike training courses advise this, from flat tracking to motorcross to road riding.
And by doin this your weight will be split across your bum and back, and will make the bike feel larger and less compact.
Mr. Dave: this one is one of the best. Thank you. It has been a while since I checked your lessons. Glad that YT offered this one to check.
The bucket seat not providing an optional position is the biggest draw back to riding a sporty bike.
Thanks for info Dave! Glad to see you up and continuing to educate us! Stay safe…
Thank you - working on the full recovery from cancer and start in earnest on the 27th. I will succeed!
What Dave has described equates to why my 1982 Honda CB900F is such a comfortable long distance ride. There aren’t many new bikes other than a Goldwing that have the perfect ergonomics triangle and comfy seat. Great video.
The 80s had it right.
More upright seating position, wider straight bars and less bend in the knees? Adventure bikes get close but the high seat height can be a problem.
Yeah after 1.5 hours on a 650r 2017 I start getting pain in my wrists and numb hands. Nice explanation!
Thanks for watching!
You're back!! Good to see you again!!
One of fav men on youtube. Glad to see you uploaded!
Leg grip and lose the gut are two things that helped me.
This may sound wrong but I woke up thinking of you and a video pops up on my UA-cam feed 😂 I definitely overlooked these simple things. Amazing how they make a huge difference. Priceless knowledge
This gentleman seems sincere and wants the best for us. He's helping us fix our bike problems with as he said "minimum investment". I have subscribed :) i hope i get a reply!
Thank you for watching and enjoying the content. I appreciate you subscribing.
I had a Suzuki RF900RW (I sorely miss it, it was phenominally underrated bike), but I also modified her with a coupla 'Tweeks', first to raise the standard 'Clamp on' handlebars, then I moved onto the Bandit 1200 Yoke & 1 piece par setup, WHAT A DIFFERENCE! Night and day!!! So for the guys & gals that aren't aware, YES, IF your current 'Steed' makes you uncomfortable, look for 'XXXXXX' (being your bikes' make and model) & Handlebar risers/replacement kit", get it fitted correctly by a qualified/experienced bike tech, and you WILL ride with more confidence because of less pain! What's more, you may very well find you have more control over your 'Beastie' too! 👌👍
😎🇬🇧
Your videos are such a compendium of knowledge! I have begun watching as many as I can to improve both my bike and myself in our symbiotic relationship on the road. One thing that has disappointed me with my new RS457 is the one-piece top triple clamp/clip-on. You simply cannot lower the front brake lever far enough to stop potential throttle roll on when reaching for the lever, due to the one-piece MC hitting the bar tube not far down from level.
Given this is a big issue, I have resigned myself to buy a new radial master cylinder kit. I'd rather not risk a crash for the sake of coin! Thankyou Dave for your insights!
Years ago l owned a Guzzi Lemans 850 and a Ducati 900 bevel drive. these bikes were of course 'cafe racer/road racer' style bikes...before the term Sports bike was commonly used. l would move the Clip-ons, plus the angle of the control levers. But one just had to suffer for the sake of 'The look' ...Now, more than forty years later ....I'm listening Dave..!
Thanks for sharing your experiences and having an open mind!!!
So happy to see a new video. I hope you're feeling much better!
Getting there thank you!
Awesome content as always! You have opened my eyes and showed me the way. Suspension and ergo! Many thanks for all that you do! Hope to meet you someday.
Great explanation of Fit.
I'm 6ft.2 - long inseams and arms.
First bike was a 2006 Honda 599 Hornet and the hand position at the end of the bars rang so very true. I would ride with my palms at the edge of the grips with half my hand off, straightened at a different angle. Change in bars helped immensely.
Upgraded to a 2009 Triumph Speed Triple - my goodness what a difference the riding triangle makes for comfort.
As always, Thank You for the great videos and explanations. They've all been excellent, a huge catalogue of knowledge and value.
Really appreciate you sharing how much getting the right triangle helped you! Thanks for your support!
Dave, you have to be, the most informed, informative and authoritative motorcycle channel on the planet…it’s great your British! Others dabble and recycle everyone else’s “expertise”, which to an extent is ok. However, you truly are an expert and you communicate in a calm, composed and logical manner. Thank you for an excellent channel.
Been shopping for a new/ used bike without ever giving thought to ergonomics like this. Lol being 54 and riding since a child I am still csb learn new things. Thank you for giving me more to think of.
Thank you for your comment. I appreciate you watching and finding the content useful for your future purchase
Thank you Mr Moss. All the best to you.
Thank you so much for all your videos… they’re among the best of the best!! I’m 56 years old and bought my last sport bike - a 2016 BMW S1000RR and start getting the wrist cramps around the one hour mark… your advice is much appreciated Sir… Kudos!!
Maybe adjust the front brake and clutch lower
Great to see you back Dave! 👍
This is exactly how I feel on my MV F3800 plus add in hip and lower back pain! After about 1.5hrs I need to stop and stretch it’s extremely frustrating especially when riding with other people. Thanks for the info Dave!
I've had the numb throttle hand for years and across many different bikes, but never heard this. Thank you.
He goes more in depth regarding hand/wrist position in a couple other videos. Here's one on averall ergonomics I found helpful: ua-cam.com/video/WmiUh7W6URw/v-deo.html
Anyway, the more reach on a bike, the more pressure on hands, and all the more pain a mismatched setup brings.
@@flinch622 Thanks friend.
@@Tech-ot4iygod the bike community is so good to eachother
Same thing with helmets, and not feeling pain… but for some that is all they have known and just took it as part of riding
@wobblysauce facts! That comment needs to be pinned. I have had gsxr 1ks for about 85% of my riding time and used to think the long ride discomfort was jus bc I'm stretched out, but putting in the time and effort to do what Dave says (even when u think u know your bike better) has changed my mental approach as well. So now my bike handles a LOT better, I'm positioned more comfortable now too, and I know I still have more room for improvement and an "uncomfortable sportbike" doesn't have to be a joy killer.
I think the majority of riders buy the wrong bike. Unfortunately the majority of riders aren't open to learning. Love your video's Dave and have been watching for years
Thank you for your kind words! I agree based on the pain I misery I hear about every day that I work. Instead of getting the right ergo's it has to be bling or performance.
Now i understand why my arms hurt so much each time i ride to work. I kept thinking it was my riding posture, but i think it is the bike. Thank you for the video!
I hope that proves to be the case and thanks for the kind words about the video. Please post what changes you made the created much greater comfort for you so others can learn.
I have 175k miles on a 1998 Bandit 1200. Been all over the US with it. The secret? A modified Corbin seat cut flat to the gas tank and flat, "drag" bars, slight bend. The pegs are neutral; I can sit on it all day.
Great to see you safe and healty again master
Your teachings are just so perfect
Thank you very much, I sincerely appreciate your thoughts and appreciation.
SO happy to see Dave back in the saddle!
More talk needed about ergos! I think it's under appreciated.
Good to see you're back up again. Looking forward to your next workshop at RS Motorcycles. Cheers
Thank you. Hope to be back ion NZ next year!
Intriguing set of ergonomics. Certainly for me as a 6’3” long legged individual.
I sold a 2016 BMW R1200R and bought a 2019 BMW R1250GS, purely because the leg room of the R was too cramped (feet trucked up a touch too high). The measurement was that with my hand hanging down from a seated position I could touch my heels on the R, whilst on the GS my feet were a good 4” lower and my legs weren’t so cramped. Result happiness. Don’t get me wrong the R was a brilliant bike - I was just too tall for it.
But here’s an oddity… recently 2,700 miles across the USA two up (me driving) on a 2023 Heritage Softail and it was pure bliss to ride for 300+ miles per day. I was very surprised - but also very aware that was “sit back and enjoy the scenery” riding. Not much in the way of UK country “A” or “B” roads. I really didn’t expect it to be that comfortable. Bearing in mind a 2006 Road King (in 2006) gave me quite a lot of pain in the small of my back after similar daily distances.
Great video - if I can just suggest that you stick to one imperial or metric measurement please. I know it covers all bases, but it’s harder to cross relate when you give two bike’s dimensions in two separate units.
Thank you, My Indian feels 10x times better after you set it up yesterday
Thanks for the feedback!! I appreciate the opportunity to work with you and your Indian!
Dave, me old son, that's an interesting video and I'll certainly be giving that a bit of thought. I rode my XR650R from Sacramento to Cabo San Lucas, when I got there I was literally in physio for 2 months (I have herniated disks and it really kicked them off). My main issue was sitting on a 4x2 plank of wood for a dirt bike seat shuffling from one arse cheek to another, this has been changed for a much better Renazco seat, expensive but totally worth it. I have plenty of seat to handlebar room of course depending how much shit I am carrying but I will look at those other measurements for sure as I'm planning on some other long rides. Good video that though. Glad to see you up and running as well mate. All the best Youngie...
this is very helpful, because with bicycles you can choose the size of frame, handle bar width etc to suit your body type. Thanks for sharing
Glad this video made sense to translate principles from bicycles to motorcycles.
My friend added a Renthal bar to his Yamaha R1. And he loves it !! Comfort increased a lot for him, and he is still just as fast !!
Great to see you back again on the Channel 😊
Thank you! Good to be filming again and creating new content to help riders.
Might be just as fast but now he's looking all dumb sitting upright on race bike
Hi Dave. I've been riding daily since 1974, owned bikes since 1970. Your videos always educate me. Thanks heaps. I hope you will excuse me if I offer you a little education, all be it from an Australian perspective. Thanks for using metric measurements. In Aus cm aren't to be used in engineering, building, or architecture. The metric system is based on lots of 10 to the power of 3. micro, milli, kilo, mega etc. Centimetres are 1/100 so don't fit. So inches and feet have been recognised engineering units, centimeters have never been. Maybe I'm completely wrong here because you are talking about body dimensions and cm are used in medicine. Thanks again for your clear accurate educational videos. Keep the shiny side up.
Perfect video, great summary and explanation, thank you so much! I own a NINJA650 and can't ride it more than 2 hours total trip in one day!!
Good explanation. I have the same issues on current bike and almost none on a test ride with an other. Despite it being leaning towards the front too.
So I now understand the complete issue with these factors.
This video highlights a common problem with new bikes: the seats are cramped slots, placed behind a high and bulging gas tank. Then you have to lean over and around this tank to get at the handlebars. The bars are constructed for visual style, instead of comfort. Big "adventure" bikes are some of the worst offenders - exactly those bikes you would think would have figured out long haul rider comfort. But motorcycle stylists are currently fixated on the "angry insect" look - hard edges and angles, minimalist seats, tiny rear passenger space and skimpy little steel foot pegs. The wide and sensible handlebars of, say, the 1960's British road bikes need to be rediscovered. I have a BMW R1150 - and it seats quite close to my first bike, a 650 Triumph Saint, which the British police used for years.
I hope this man never dies. He’s a legend
Absloutley make sure you're comfy with the bike you buy! I'm a sooter rider at 5'10" knee space is very important for steering.
I’m in California. You showed me a lot Dave I appreciate it.
Good to see you up and posting again, Dave.
I'm 5'10" and blessed w/a gorilla-esque physique. On my former Ninja 1000, I added Murph's risers- they didn't address the angle issue but added some height and backwards movement-, grip puppies, HVMP bar ends and a throttle lock to add some comfort on my ailing, aching. elderly shoulders. I tried a number of different seats but ended up w/a seat designed by a local auto upholsterer. I also added footpeg lowering brackets to give my knees and hips a bit more room- voila! Still wasn't perfect but it was a much better fit for my riding purposes and needs. You gotta make the bike fit you!
Thank you - great post and thank you for sharing what you did to get as much comfort as you could given your physique and age. Great stuff to inspire others not to suffer!
So timely. I ride a sport tourer and this season have been struggling with hand and wrist pain/numbness. Thanks for this.
Thanks Dave for all the wisdom !
i'm always amazed at how few motorcyclists sort the ergonomics of their bikes. it's always the thing i pay first attention to, risers, bars, seat height, before anything else... you wouldn't even drive a hire car without adjusting the seat to suit you, bum to pedal, backrest to steering wheel and gear lever, so why would you ride your own motorbike without sorting your foot to bum to hand relationship?
I bought a Renthal bar for my Buell and it made an enormous difference based on this same problem. It’s straighter and wider and it is amazing
I am fortunate enough to own 5 motorcycles. I have found that the bars that have more sweep cause hand cramps and my wrists to get numb and sore. One of the first things I do is upgrade the handlebars to suit my needs and body.
I’ve got a Spyder F-3S it is very nice and sporty! Comfortable all day.
This is why I ride older bikes from the 60s and 70s. The seats are wider and flat so it is easier to position yourself. Also American style handlebars which are higher give a much more upright relaxing ride. It means little pressure on the wrists. The geometry on most modern bikes is all wrong and not suitable for longer rides. This is why many bikers are returning to more classic style motorcycles.
Thats exactly why my next bike is gonna be a BMW GSA 1250, I'm just too big for most bikes, problem solved.... hope you feel better Dave...
Working at it every day - getting there!
Made a massive difference adjusting the lever angle to how comfortable I felt operating the bikes controls, that I began to shift my weight toward the outside of the bike on corners, which would indicate an increase in confidence. Looks like handlebar angle/height is next on the list.
Thank you for taking the time to post your experience and help other riders to get motivated to make a change!
Welcome back Dave!!!
At 6ft 2 I had to get the seat of my BMW XR customised so that i could sit further back to reduce the hip/knee angle. Also an opportunity to make the seat more comfortable. The OEM was a bucket style seat with no room to move.
Good information, you are lean forward on the handlebar on straight hands, that will put pressure on palm of your hands and also lower back pain. I had the problems with my naked bike, lean forward on the handlebars, changed the handlebar to high adventure handlebar plus risers, now I have adventure sport bike! Much more comfortable, upright setting position!
thanks for posting!!
good day Mr.Dave williams how are you here
good day Mr. Dave moss🙂 thanks for the video
I really appreciate the breakdown in measurements and reasons.
Being short my main issue is height. I'm used to hands narrow on bars, clutch lever needing replaced or on a cable clutch people want to adjust it as i have it all or nothing.
I ride upwards of 5 hours and have found the odd hand aches (1 inch cruiser bars) and recently riding a much larger cruiser a pain on the top of my right elbow. Its definitely bike induced.
I am busy setting up an RF900R and am going to remember your suggestions.
Thank you for sharing.
Thank you for watching and take the time to get pictures of yourself on the RF and cruiser to assess your ergonomics. This is a very critical step as you are aware to rol the bars back and forth AND left to right to make you as a unique human, sit a in centered position.
@catalystreactionsbw thanks. I will definitely look at both bikes.
Always enjoy and learn so much from your videos. Thank you!
Good to see you Dave I hope your doing well Sir.
a mod video for this bike (because it's a popular bike that many people have) will be good to show the difference and parts that would make a difference.
Awesome video! 👍 I recently adjusted my rear shock which increased my seat height and provided better stability while riding. This made a tremendous benefit to my rides. I think I might take a look at handlebar next from watching your video. 🙃
Thank you. I appreciate you sharing the changes you made to help others see that this is a task that can create tremendous positives.
I ride a CBR1000RR since I was 27 years old.
I am now 47 and still riding it. Same bike.
Just about the only thing that hurts is my butt after about 2 hours.
But never any pain the following day of a ride.
Is it the most comfortable bike? No.
Does it handle nicely. Hell yes.
Would I trade it? No. Would I change anything? No.
I have recently even installed a 47 litres Givi top box on it where the passenger seat should be. Nothing touches the paint work.
Moto camping ⛺️ with the old CBR now. 🤩
The ultimate supersport tourer..!! 🥳
Glad to see you are back Dave!! Hope you are feeling better, doing better. Love that you are talking about the rider triangle...I've definitely modified my rides to better suit my reach/shoulder width over the years...VFR1200 I'm looking at you :P
This man is a legend. Nothing but respect
Pffft ! He's a spoofer .
Learn something new everyday, much appreciated.
That bike is more suited for someone of a shorter and narrower build. Try before you buy to see if you fit the bike. I am just under 5 Foot 7 inches in height with a 29 inch inseam. My bike is a Suzuki GSX650F which I cant flat foot on but, once moving, the ergos are good for me. With a lot of different bike and riders, there are always going to be compromises.
Where the Hell have you been @Dave Moss!!!! Great to see ya man!
Thank you! Some health issues to resolve over time, but back creating videos again. Happy to be helping riders via my channel.
Ergonimics on older bikes are better than what they make now.
Like running backwards into the future
meanwhile on older bikes a lot of people DIED for lack of safe brakes, tires and suspension....but comfy to sit on lol
Gripping the tank with your legs and bracing your core will also help with back, shoulder, arm and wrist pains.
That is solid advice! I always wonder how motorcycle journalists are criticizing handlebars and things like this. That´s the first thing I change when it doesn´t fit. Most of the time the reach doesn´t work with the width, and additionally the back sweep of the bar is not ideal. Probably rotating the bar helps, but only if the bike doesn´t get too twitchy or sluggish; depending if too far forward or backward rolled.
I come from mountainbiking and there reach and stack are the two factors you look into.
Thanks for your comment and mountainbike reference. Glad this video helped give you more insight.
Incredibly useful information. Thank you
One of the most comfortable bikes I had was a CBR1100XX Blackbird 1997 and another was the Fazer 1000 2005
At 62, I bought my current machine with ergonomics first. I bought a GSXS 1000GT + knowing full well that I need a bike with wider and taller bars, a more upright riding position and a minimum of knee bend. The only drawback is my old ass gets sore after 150 miles 😂😂😂
The manufacturer should make the bar adjustable, provide the range of dimensions for the rider triangle the bike supports, also provide what height and weight of rider they set up the bike for. Better yet the dealer should be able to set up the ergonomics according to the buyer's height and weight etc. . it would be also better if the manufacturer also provided alternate bars for riders which do not fall to the initial range supported.
The problem is cost. everything you mention would add additional costs that most are unwilling to pay for. And its cheaper for the owner to do it themselves.
@@spartanx169x they must be using some standard when they pass the design as acceptable and safe etc. All they have to do is publish it. I don't think that would cost that much. to add few pages of information.. The dealer has to set up the bike anyway. They must be receiving some instructions on how to set it up. They just need to plug in the buyer's dimensions.
Looking trim sir. Nice video!
Thanks Dave for giving me a good understanding of suspension balance ,with spring preload and hydraulics, Appreciate the vids 👍
Good one! I commute daily on my HD Low Rider S and I get neck C-6 to T-1 neck pain (Cervical 6 vertebrae to Thoracic 1st vertebrae) and numb hands. Looking into new seat and handle bars and risers which will allow me to lean back some. I think that will make the difference. Like to see a more in-depth video where you actually make the changes and ride it then tell us if it made a difference
Hi Dave, thanks for your passionate work that helped thousands of people, hopefully you could help me too, i'm having a hard time entering corners while trail braking, it feels like the bike doesn't want to tip in and kinda wants to stand up, i feel like i have to use a lot of counter steer to compensate and it doesn't feel natural, i'm riding a KTM 890 Duke R, mostly sporty street riding through twisty roads, my weight is around 90kg, suspension travel is 150mm rear and 140mm front, thank you and greetings :)
Thanks for the kind words! Trail braking and "fight" is 90% of the time rebound too fast. You can check that with the leading edge being worn down on the tread pattern (see Contact Patch playlist for rebound wear). At ther same time, check the rear wear on both sides.
Hello Dave , we really need someone with your knowledge and experience here in Costa Rica...Cheers...👍
Never thought about this
Dave, I have 2 bikes I'm currently playing with the triangle issue. A 2013 Diavel AMG and a 2003 FZ1. I picked up the Ducati yesterday morning after they installed custom bar extenders, and it's as close as I can get with it. Hopefully, the FZ1 will be completed this week with a 3 1/2-inch riser/extender and it'll be more squared away. Had to have the throttle cable extended out of state. After that, I'll need to reach you to set up these guys. Many thanks!
Great work in making sue your triangles are optimal. The Diavel is by far the longest reach of any OEM motorcycle.
Cheers Dave.
Nice one Dave.
As always useful information.
I’ve used your experience and knowledge to setup my handlebars and levers.
Works perfectly.
Thanks
I wish I saw this a year ago... without having to figure it out on my own... So I picked up a Harley Road Glide 3 Trike and these had 11 inch handlebars so I said to myself cool I won't have to swap out bars like I did with my 2 wheel Road glide which had 9 inch handlebars. Well, it wasn't until I too the trike out for a really long ride that I found out my triangle was way off. At 75 miles into the ride my legs were hurting and my rotator cuffs started hurting and my right hand was starting to go numb. The pain was so bad that I thought I might not make it home. But when I did even 1000 mgs of Motrin didn't t do anything for the pain. For the next 5 days the pain in the rotator cuffs were some of the most excruciating pain I ever experienced. Needless to say the rotators did heal to the point I was able to get back on the trike so I adjusted the handlebars and just on a short trip to the store my rotator cuffs felt like I put them through a workout (yes, they were in pain mode again). It wasn't until I changed out my bars to the same one's I have on my 2 wheel Road Glide did I find the solution. 1 inch made a huge difference plus with these bars I was not only able to do the normal forward and back adjustment but I was able to both left and right side individually. I remember seeing your other videos years ago talking about the importance of proper hand placement on grips and making the adjustments. So I was able to adjust the right and left side correctly so I did not experience anymore pain in the rotator cuffs... funny thing is of ride motorcycles for 40 sum odd years I never experienced the pain like that. Of course, many will say it's a trike you're going to use your upper body more the make turns thing of it is I'm not turning for 75 miles so the proper set up on your bike is very important.
Thank you very much for sharing your story and making sure that others learn from your experience and not suffer in silence.
I found out real fast that riding position had to be perfect if I was to take my adv bike through a rock garden without dumping it. On a paved road the extra grip and smooth ride can hide bad habits or bad ergonomics.