Neil deGrasse Tyson's Galaxy-Brained Take on Speciesism
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- Опубліковано 28 тра 2021
- Neil deGrasse Tyson Explains Species Bias
• Neil deGrasse Tyson Ex...
Argument from marginal cases
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#startalk #speciesism #vegan
People always ask "What is smallpox" but never "How is smallpox" 😞
nnn
I don't have any friends because I smell like fish and have bad breath. I smell like rotten eggs and that's why I'm still a virgin
"I say thank you to my lettuce before I eat it, just like the native americans. Also slaughterhouses are okay because all life is sacred." -a scientist
And this children is why astrophysicists do not make the best biologists
Or philosophers for that matter.
BIOLOGY IS FOR HIPPIES
@@TheChamp91100 thanks!
They're not even discussing biology, but morality
Swayze: ... so doesn't that mean it's okay to eat dumb humans.?
Me: Makes sure that the front door is locked.
😶
I was thinking: Fuck, my intelligence wildly fluctuates, when am I supposed to go out and when to hide? PS: Is Percival from Shelley?
@@whitecrow1583
Close, but no Nicotine Patch. 😋
Baroness Orczy.
"The Scarlet Pimpernel" (which I've STILL yet to read all the way through).
Like Bruce Wayne to Batman or Peter Parker to "Spidey" and so on.
(Both Percy and Mary Shelley were Vegetarian... unsurprisingly so too is "The Monster" from "Frankenstein".)
Thanks for the reply.
Genuinely.
😊
@@whitecrow1583
addendum...
Yes, when in doubt ... HIDE!
Like King (Keith Davis) says in Platoon, "Ain't no such thing as a coward out here".
"Better to be tried by twelve, than carried by six."... as Wayne la Pierre is fond of saying.
😇
We got a badass over here.
I don't have any friends because I smell like fish and have bad breath. I smell like rotten eggs and that's why I'm still a virgin
“He continues pretending to respect everything using this as a justification to continue to respect nothing”
Perfectly said.
Dolphins are not vegans. You are not even as smart as a Dolphin
Humans are carnivores!!!
Opossums aren't ugly! Beauty should not equal worth.
While this is true and it’s how it SHOULD be, but sadly this is not even true for humans.
@@bobpope3656 True. 😔
I don't have any friends because I smell like fish and have bad breath. I smell like rotten eggs and that's why I'm still a virgin
Sounds like an acid trip I had once
The plants have feelings argument is quite ignorant when you realize that our farm animals eat more plants then we would if we ate the plants directly instead of animal products.
You de realize some plants eat meat. You are less intelligent than carnivores plant
The point of the argument that plants suffer, too, is that there is no possible action to take which doesn't cause suffering - that to exist in the world is both to suffer and to cause suffering in others - so you might as well eat meat
@@gillablecam that's like arguing that crime happens anyway, so might as well not punishfor it and do it ourselves too.
No logic at all.
Perfectly said
@@dillon846 If the amount of suffering matters, you should investigate how much suffering is caused by mass plant agriculture compared to naturally pastured herds.
This level of self-awareness and critical analysis from a youtuber is remarkably refreshing. Subscribed!
Hey, there's hope: he kinda sounds like me ten years ago before I went vegan. You know: the type that has started to tjink about it and consider the moral questions but stopped too soon because they still value the cognitive dissonance. Frankly those who go into "plants tho" territory, ther's something itching in their brain on my opinion.
I don't have any friends because I smell like fish and have bad breath. I smell like rotten eggs and that's why I'm still a virgin
Is he still gonna be there in ten years though, lol
Humans are carnivores!!!
swayze theses days has had no chill and I’m here for it
Her reaction to his poem argument and how she kept returning to it had me rolling 😂😂😂
No chill is what gets the clicks 🤌🤌🤌🤌🤌
I don't have any friends because I smell like fish and have bad breath. I smell like rotten eggs and that's why I'm still a virgin
Cooking is evil ok thank you
I'm disappointed in Neil. He's using his platform to help people feel justified in eating meat and I can't imagine why that's important to his brand.
cuz meat tastes amazing (:
@@alexanderabrashev1366 lol why are you even here
@@alexanderabrashev1366 The SPICES taste amazing, meat in itself taste fucking horrible.
He just rambles until he thought he justified his cognitive dissonance, nothing new. We need to stop idolising specialists in one field like they know everything there is to know and they have the only hot take.
@Mario Mario Yes that's exactly what's happening here, we want him banished for these statements.
Calm down, he's not going to fuck you.
@Mario Mario No, I think the person just said the opposite. He/she said not to confuse knowledge in one specialization as automatically being knowledgeable about other things. So keep the acknowledgement in someone's knowledge in the field they actually have knowledge, instead of spreading it out to other domains where the person isn't an expert in. (Which is what people do with Tyson and other popular scientists.)
@Mario Mario learn to read properly
I think anyone who eats food has the right to opinion on this on some issues like abortion I agree who gives a fuck was astrophysicist has to say about that but when it comes to food I think Neil is qualified to give an opinion on this even if he is wrong we need to know how people like him think so we can explain their flaws.
@@pcaul8156 whoa whoa whoa how do you know who Neil is going to fuck? And can you tell me where?
Poor SARS-CoV-2 will suffer when it has no one to infect lol
I actually do feel bad seeing great old trees being cut down for no good reason but it's coming from a different place than my concern for sentient animals. If a great tree is cut it down it couldn't just be replaced, it would take hundreds of years to replace. It's special and storied and makes the land more beautiful and provides all kinds of utility for animals. That's where my moral consideration for it comes from. My moral consideration for animals is about their dignity and subjective experience.
I guess it's the folly of intellectuals who get a bit too full of themselves. Neil De Grasse Tyson is great when talking space, Dawkins is great when talking genes and evolution theory, but once those guys step foot outside of their realm, they are as lost as everyone else, who has not done any work to further their understanding.
I don't have any friends because I smell like fish and have bad breath. I smell like rotten eggs and that's why I'm still a virgin
Veganism is a cult. No one who is intelligent would be a vegan
Humans are carnivores!!!!
@@GarudaLegends yes, veganism is a cult
Dawkins is great when talking evolution theory? Since when?
Always amazes me how 'intelligent' people who are regarded as critical thinkers always fall so short on veganism. They make fallacious arguments that they would never accept on other issues
Agreed, I am not a vegan, but at least I am honest with myself, that I cause harm to animals, that is avoidable. His mental gymnastics are dissapointing..
Okay. I’m a reductionist. I’m a failed vegan. I think NO one is right about eating meat. Sam Harris, one of the best minds out there, lazily just admits the same as me...it wasn’t a sustainable position in the long run, and the vegan absolutist thinking caused some mental anguish that we wanted to avoid.
BUT...I admit. Logically, vegans are right. But, I want to get to your comment...
YOU ARE RIGHT. Especially about Neil DeGrasse Tyson. He is for space exploration at any/all costs. I absolutely am NOT. We are adding so much space junk to our orbit, that space travel will not be possible, without running into something. Watch videos of him, just passively mentioning this issue, and how his plan is “we will solve this problem as we go along”. I guess the same way we solve ocean pollution, I guess.
My point: NEIL IS NOT AS GREAT AS PEOPLE THINK.
They are just so true to their true colors. That's all.
Veganism is just an evil political agenda promoted by secret societies that nobody in this channel would ever dare entertain. Just walking zombies here.
@_____ _ Are you having critical thinking issues? Is a snake abusing the mice it eats? Take your out of context informal fallacies elsewhere, i suppose you don't realize you don't realize. And let's be clear here dopey, you don't decide for anybody else.
I really liked the mention of super brained aliens. good question to ask: if a species of aliens much smarter than us human wanted to eat us, considering they could live off of anything in the universe, what would your argument be in order to save our species?
I think the real question is what would be her argument if we were their only possible source of food, so that the only way for them to survive would be eating us. Because you said "considering they could live off of anything in the universe". Then of course UV would say that eating us would only cause unecessary suffering and so it wouldn't be ethical, and they should just eat something else. But what if they were more sentient and smarter than us and their only way of surviving was to eat us? Would she say then " you can eat me, it's the right thing to do since you're more sentient than me"? lol
@@hey_you356 obviously not but it would be justified but that doesn't mean we won't fight back as even other animals try their best to survive from their predators even when the predators are dependent on them.
I don't have any friends because I smell like fish and have bad breath. I smell like rotten eggs and that's why I'm still a virgin
@@smac2726 LMAO THE CONTRADICTIONS
@@honorgeary4276
What do you mean?
I just googled oppossums and they're actually adorable??...
Here in my town you can sometimes see one sleeping upside down on telephone wires, it's very cute!
Yes, and some people have them as pets.
Don't they eat ticks?
@@yaash4123 yes they do! they are amazing at eradicating parasites
They really are, I get so excited when I see them like they're special pokemon
I know there is a bit of a conversation about fleas, ticks, intrinsic value, sentience in these comments. I think it comes more down to self defense. I'm not going to kill a bug that isn't going to hurt me. But mosquitos and fleas cause me harm, and I will murder them. Just like if I was about to get my ass murdered by a polar bear, I'd fight for my life. One is just much more avoidable than the other.
Not trying to argue with you, I actually agree. But personally I don't believe that a mosquito bite or tick bite will kill me. Yet I still smack them if they're on me. The polar bear is a different story because that will definitely kill you, but to me, the fact that I'm willing to kill the mosquito or whatever means I'm valuing my own comfort over that animal's. I think we're all specisit to some extent, and honestly I think it's fine.
Fair, the likelihood of a mosquito bite killing you is low (unless you live somewhere with malaria), though I personally get a really bad allergic reaction to bites from my local mosquito population. There is probably levels of harm to weigh against their benefit (I'm thinking of how farmers handle predators), but to me it's still an act of self defense to kill a mosquito. I certainly try to discourage the interaction in the first place with mosquito deterrent though. Which...I think isn't something I need to convince people of (I don't think most people rather kill mosquitos as they attack them than avoid the interaction to begin with).
I just definitely think that acts of self defense should be part of the discussion of speciesism ahead of "is this thing even sentient" or "does this thing have any intrinsic value".
@@brh.1892 okay but mosquitos and ticks can give you diseases that can kill you
@Br H. Malaria, Dengue Fever, Lyme Disease , Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever, West Nile Virus, and several hundred various Parasitic and Viral infections via those same vectors...
I agree with the self defense argument, but the Clinical Laboratory Scientist in me needed to communicate corrections on important contagious concerns.
🤘🏼😘🔥
@@TheNocturnalpheonix with peace and love of course I know a mosquito bite CAN kill you. But for a big part of the world, they won't! If I, living in the UK, kill a mosquito, it is because its annoying, not because I'm afraid of malaria.
Judge me all you want but I need more of this type of snarky ruthless b content
Omg. When he came in hot with small pox feelings... I died. 😂
Neil Degrasse Tyson: "Why do we need philosophy if we have science though?" THIS. This is why Neil!
if he values all life equally like he says that means that the death of a relative should be no more impacting than a plant dying 💀💀💀🙄
Never has Neil's entire demeanour been summed up better than when he was on a panel with Richard Dawkins, Lawrence Krauss and Bill Nye and they all sat there and endured Neil rambling on about consciousness until eventually Bill mimed taking a giant bong hit and the whole room erupted into laughter.
I’ve listened to many, many of Neil’s star talk episodes, and the ones about astrophysics or the ones in which her platforms experts are wonderful. His poetic way of explanation hits best when he is talking within the realm of his expert knowledge. As a vegan, I cringed the entire way through his speciesism video. Bad logic, big fail.
@@gazneregina5373
I agree. I remember becoming aware of him at a Beyond Belief event circa 2006 which led me to look him up afterwards and watch a talk that he did that was called Cosmic Quandaries if I remember right. And that in turn led me to read his book Death By Black Holes because I think the talk was part of a promotion for the book. And I loved it. He's a great communicator and a pleasure to listen to about astrophysics. He just unfortunately insists on having an opinion on quite literally everything else. In and of itself, that would be fine. Most of us have an opinion on a wide variety of topics. But he's been given a platform. And that platform has been given to him on the basis of his credentials as an astrophysicist. So (intentionally or not) he's constantly using his credentials in astrophysics to preach to the world about things that are very much not astrophysics. He's starting to become the scientific community's version of miss universe talking about world peace or an actor preaching about climate change in their Oscar speech. In fairness to him, some of it is the fault of the media. Whenever he's interviewed on a talk show or podcast or whatever, he's always getting asked questions that he has no business answering. So they have created a monster. He's become the guy that is just expected to have an opinion on whatever the topic of the day is. He does seem to happily embrace it though. And he is sometimes the instigator.
Don't pay any attention to what I wrote. I forgot to take my meds
I think his point was that speceism is inevitable and he tried to provoke philosophical thinking in the viewers, rather than any vegan related serious moral issue
You’re right, but a lot of the people here (and I guess a good portion of the vegan community) aren’t gonna get off their moral high horse to see that.
To live, something is going to die, whether it’s the mosquito carrying malaria, the tuna for our sushi, or the Romain lettuce for our Caesar salad. Just like we benefit off the the death/consumption of other species, so does every other living thing, even plants. The best we can do is limit our consumption (and sometimes, that means going vegan). And this isn’t even getting into what humans do to each other just to get some damn cashews.
Hell, even planets and galaxies were made of the destruction of stars. They aren’t “alive” but it’s still the destruction of one thing to make something else.
But this is a vegan space, not open to anything that makes them think beyond themselves, so no one wants to try to understand another point of view
@@sunkissedkhala thank you so much for your understanding! I was reluctant to write here but did nonetheless. As partial vegan fully vegetarian I absolutely understand this perspective. But Neil was simply not talking about this, just like you mentioning galaxies. We have to at least cut off living and growing lettuce for our salad, which is, of course, wouldn't feel pain whereas cow would. But it was still alive, and it's almost interesting how we have no choice but to consume previously alive organic matter
Well to be clear, plants and other non-animal organisms may very well have “experiences” and on some level “wants” and a sense of self. Science still isn’t sure fully on what processes play into how some plants make “decisions” when tested, so we can’t rule out a possibility of consciousness. I would say veganism is still valid even if plants are conscious though, since a conscious being could exist that doesn’t have experiences that are painful (since suffering is the evolutionary byproduct that veganism is concerned with morally)
Also: we have to eat something and since animals eat plants as well and even more then when we would eat the plants directly, being vegan would equal less plant suffering, if it existed.
I don't have any friends because I smell like fish and have bad breath. I smell like rotten eggs and that's why I'm still a virgin
@@pjryon2276 you’re not funny. Your just sad. Bye.
@@Menthepomme 🤪
Neil sounds like he just smoked wayyy too much weed
That’s exactly how most vegans sound to me.
@@RestingBitchface7 boooooo get off the stage
I don't have any friends because I smell like fish and have bad breath. I smell like rotten eggs and that's why I'm still a virgin
And you look older than him. Have fun keep looking 50 years older than you are with your diet
Waw, I hope you feel good about hijacking an innocent comment for spreading hatred, misinformation or misrepresentation...
Can't believe he just all lives mattered veganism
Some of his arguments with the oak tree reminds me of what my dad said to me when I told him I was vegan.
I’m pretty sure I’ve heard my sister’s boyfriend say this exact speech while he’s absolutely hammered.
Nothin’ worse than a physicist with a little philosophy lingo...
I am a physics student.
Shut the FuK up
It was the fallacies for me
I'm only at 2.40 min. But there are two things I thought may be pointed out. Yes, we value dolphins more than tuna, not because of some inherent value to them, but because we are brought up to see them as 'nearer' to us than regular fish. There are multiple factors playing into this, they can't breathe underwater, they are mammals, their interactions with humans and how all of these are portrayed by media etc. (Remember Flipper?). Fish are foreign to us and how they are perceived is way more like insects than other types of animals.
It is similar for mammals. We do not value cows less than dogs because of some inherent value, but because we are socially instructed to live with a certain dissonance. Because they are food to us (I'd argue) we can not value them as much as animals. Their value was food, not companionship. Sometimes this dissonance shows, but it might be because of social conditioning and emotionally driven
Dolphins are also very social creatures they have friends and stuff, probably capable of empathy too. I'd assume that their capability of suffering would be also higher.
You weren't that far into the video and she does address this but Dolphins being mammals is not a good argument. Cows, chickens (...) can't breathe underwater and they're portrayed in a positive light (I guess) in the media. Again I'm sure you got this from the rest of the video - this argument is weak.
All the practicing Christians I've asked (and I've asked many) do not think fish is meat. "It is an animal but not meat; its fish" swear this is the response.
I don't have any friends because I smell like fish and have bad breath. I smell like rotten eggs and that's why I'm still a virgin
@Swayze's teacher try eating a lot more meat , lots of cooked food. And make sure you get the vaccine!!!!!
I used to think this way, now I am a vegetarian wanting to be vegan 😊 we are not hopeless!
but I would suggest to watch „the hidden life of trees“. It really makes you question the assumption that a tree doesn‘t have an experience of life.
pigs are smarter than dogs and most human babies
I think his idea of respecting all life, and being thankful for the food he eats, could be an empathetic start to a better diet, one less cow eaten, or incorporation a vegan meal more often.
His respect seems to be very vague, though, or even pure virtue-signalling.
I kind of agree, depending on the person. Thinking about the life taken just to eat, when non-sentient food is just as available, would make some people more and more repulsed to eat animals over time.
I don't have any friends because I smell like fish and have bad breath. I smell like rotten eggs and that's why I'm still a virgin
@Swayze's teacher try eating a lot more meat , lots of cooked food. And make sure you get the vaccine!!!!!
this is super funny. "trees tho" *smokes a joint*
Thanks for the video. Interesting and thought provoking.🌱🌳🌱 This is much more constructive than personality clashes.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with appreciating how awesome plants are when you eat them and being amazed by the biology that took place for you to be having that experience.
Could you make a video explaining what does it mean to be "sentient"? Also what do you think has more values: the life of a sentient animal or the life of a nonsentient human? Would a nonsentient human be equal to a tree for you? And also, do you value a life based on how "sentient" they are? If some very smart aliens appeared, would their lives have more value than ours in your opinion?
Sentience just the ability to feel pain and have a subjective experience and objectively yes the aliens would have more moral value but we would be biased towards our species so we think we would be more special
@@barco111 Yeah of course we would, but my point is that IF unnatural vegan thinks that the value of a life is based on how sentient you are, then not letting those aliens eat people (if they didn't have anything else to survive on and would die otherwise) would then be immoral, because their life would have more value than ours. But of course we would fight back and we would use the same argument that some people who are omnivores use today: our life is more precious because...it just is, because we are humans and that's it. And our dog's life has more value than a cow's life, because it just does, because to us humans it feels like that.
I don't have any friends because I smell like fish and have bad breath. I smell like rotten eggs and that's why I'm still a virgin
@@cookingisevil5829 stop
@@pjryon2276 dude just stop trolling, you are only ruining the comment section and annoying everyone
Great video, thank you!
"He's pretending to respect everything to continue respecting nothing."
EXACTLY
Yeah, Swayze, this is what he does. At least he didn't cognate every piece of his argument to a Marvel superhero this time.
@@cookingisevil5829 yes, it The last thing you mention would be very helpful, especially to you
Such a great video! I really like these kinds of videos
Could you perhaps do a video on fibromyalgia / brain-fog and how someone whose vegan and has these conditions can take care to not worsen the symptoms? Much appreciated
Thank you for this Video. I really love your channel. I learned so much from you over the last years and I‘m always impressed how smart you are, how wisely you choose your arguments. Greetings from germany. 🤗
I feel a little condemned by association to be agreeing with some of what Annoying Science Man is saying, but plants absolutely do display behaviours consistent with having wants. Strongly recommend The Secret Life Of Trees, great readable book by an arborist that's fully referenced. It's been a while since I read it, but the part that stuck with me is how trees of the same species can share resources via their interconnected root systems, to the point that a ring barked individual (which should die from its roots starving, but which can still pump water up to its leaves) can be kept alive for more than 10 years.
A brain and a centralised nervous system is one solution to the problem of being a multicellular organisms and coordinating the actions of different parts of the body, but a decentralised nervous system like what plants have (which uses one of the same neurotransmitters that humans use, glutamate) is no less valid. Pain is a communicative stimulus response to damage, and plants communicate that within themselves and to others.
Less unnecessary suffering based on our human understanding of what suffering is and what can suffer. Just because a tree doesn't work the same way we do, doesn't mean that we understand everything about them. Trees will grow less leaves on the side where a sapling is ensuring that the sapling gets more sun. Scientists can't explain how this occurs but it's been proven. There is so much we don't know. I mean, how do you decide that an oyster is OK to eat but a shrimp is not? Where's the line? I mean, you say that if a tree didn't want you to cut it down, then you wouldn't but a fish can't tell you that it doesn't want to be netted either. I get that were talking about causing less suffering but we're only talking about what we recognize as suffering and it's enormously arrogant of us to assume we understand everything about it.
Well said! I don’t think any of this contradicts from the principles of veganism (being the goal of harm reduction). If scientists a million years in the future happen to determine that plants felt pain, then we would just resort to making edible non-organic foods to truly “do better.” Veganism is a great step forward but it doesn’t have to be the end goal. Of course, this topic isn’t very helpful for vegan advocacy😅
I'd love him to go harvest some plants and spend some time in a slaughterhouse and tell me its the same
I think what constitutes suffering really comes down to how you define it. If suffering means something like "chemical reaction to a specific kind of stimulation", then trees too can suffer. But then again, suffering is a human concept. Maybe such issues shouldn't concern us vegans anyway, but if we have issues with speciesism, maybe we should also have issues with anti-pan/polypsychism and such, or at least respect them being a thing?
Just to add my 2 Ct to the tree issue: Yes, plants do show reactions to parts of them cut off/bitten off/whatever. Maybe we should discuss how anthropocentric our definition of suffering is. I think we need to realize that every living being that is part of the ecosystem on earth has a place and a right to exist and our ecosystem can only stay healthy if we don't push the balance too far in any way. Yes of course, we have to eat and we do have a right to exist just as everything else. But I also believe that we should try and be as mindful as possible of every aspect of our consumption.
The reaction that plants show is different from the subjective suffering experience of animals. Plants do not feel pain, the animals we eat do. (If you have any evidence to prove the opposite, I'd be very curious to see it.) And if there's anything that is destroying the balance of our ecosystem, that is animal agriculture in the first place. If you really believe in "mindful consumption", then try to understand the impact that your food has on the ecosystem and on the other beings. If you approach this type of issues with an open mind and willing to learn, you will learn a lot :)
There is a video compilation of him interrupting Joe Rogan for ten minutes and it's hilarious. This man just wants to hear himself talk
wait... I was chugging along the video... nodding my head... until she said fleas and ticks are very likely not sentient.
Where's the justification for that statement? Do they not have brains, etc?
Sincere question... I don't agree but am open to correction, if sound justification can be provided.
edit: also, does ANYTHING have "intrinsic value"?? It seems to me to be subjective. Whether or not something has value RELIES upon someone or something else assigning value to it...
Just googling are fleas sentient and are ticks sentient I found out THEY ARE!!! They can have "subjective experiences" according to actual studies. She says the same of oysters, but idk if an oyster could move I think it would get away like a clam.
I don't have any friends because I smell like fish and have bad breath. I smell like rotten eggs and that's why I'm still a virgin
@Swayze's teacher try eating a lot more meat , lots of cooked food. And make sure you get the vaccine!!!!!
The other guy has a constant surprised pikachu face at anything Neil says
That’s what I noticed the whole time! 😂
I don't have any friends because I smell like fish and have bad breath. I smell like rotten eggs and that's why I'm still a virgin
@Swayze's teacher try eating a lot more meat , lots of cooked food. And make sure you get the vaccine!!!!!
You’re so so right
I find the "trees tho" argument so dumb. Plants, even though they might have complex systems, ways of communication and even some short of consciousness they most likely DON'T feel pain. Pain has evolved to make creatures flee/avoid dangerous situations (like a bush full of thorns), plants can't move enough to flee from something or stay away from it so something like pain would be completely useless, a waste of energy and pointless suffering. It makes no sense for them to feel pain and be treated the same way as organisms who certainly feel pain.
What about the peer reviewed information on plants communicating, expressing pain or strategies in response to fires or animals/ insects. Sentience is the capacity to be aware of feelings and sensations
According to science, that's response to stimulus, not sentience. Plants don't have pain receptor, central nervous system or a brain to feel pain.
So even if you consider plants sentient, it is obvious that animals have a level of sentience higher than plants, and that should be consider because they can suffer more (considering your dumb argument that plants can suffer, argument that I reject).
Another point is that, even if plants are sentient and can suffer, you will increase suffering eating animals that were fed with plants. You are killing way more plants (according to trophic levels 26x more if you eat a beef) and animals by eating them.
There's no evidence of pain or strategies. Rocks "respond" to water by eroding. That doesn't mean they feel something.
I think he is coming from a very aesthetic perspective. He values all life and viruses the same because he finds the way have have evolved or millions of years to be beautiful, in the same way he finds space and many aspects of science beautiful. It's just astonishing that he doesn't consider suffering or morality at all.
Great video Swayze
i wonder what her stance is on the Dr. Avi discussion about natural predator animals
I recommend the documentary "The hidden life of trees" by Peter Wohlleben. It's on Netflix (on German Netflix anyway). Trees seem to live in complex social systems and they do have nervous systems that resemble ours in the way that they feel pain when their leaves are being chewed on for example which causes an immune response (much slower than ours^^). People don't usually focus on trees so much and assume that they don't have experiences because they are so different from us/animals. It's a shame.
Luckily vegans don't eat trees! All joking aside, trees really are incredible and beautiful organisms and we have much to learn about them. The good thing is that veganism obviously also greatly benefits trees and forests, since animal agriculture causes great destruction to them.
The weird thing is that he has talked (ok, tweeted, ,at least) against animal agriculture. Anyway, the point is not Neil, but for people to see videos like this and be inspired to be more critical and honest to themselves.
Ps. LOVE that you are holding Tysons feet to the fire 🔥. Gosh your chanel has helped me sooo much
I feel like sometimes you miss a point or act obtuse about something and twist it into something it’s not
Can you give an example?
@@yasaiaisa8363 the first five minutes were particular bad, like when she compared eating fish to low intelligence people like the whole point of what he said was that people just feel more of a connection to dolphins because they’re smarter than tuna, and that’s just true and how people think and sympathize, plus we just don’t eat people at all? Or missing the tie to the tree, he just meant that the levels of intelligence of some animals might as well be compared to trees because compared to us, their intelligence and self awareness is so limited that they just exist to exist and live another day, like a tree.
She does this a lot especially when talking about social justice issues. It’s pretty annoying.
@@sharonj7385 I like her, I really do, but it is irritating at times, especially when she pairs it with her constant chuckle that can be perceived as condescending.
This must be the movie pitch for The Happening.
Okay lol Neil De Grasse did ring a bell somewhere, actually the publisher that I work for has just published his book. Hope it's better than this lol
Getting an ad with Neil deGrasse in it on this video... I'm sure there's some meaning behind it 👀
Who is eating trees?
Termites? 🤷
Actually a lot of research is starting to show that animals that we thought didn't feel pain like worms or things that are not within the animal kingdom like plants if possible that they do feel pain and just not in the way that humans are other human like animals do. Kind of like how we thought lobsters couldn't feel pain when they were boiled alive but now we know that's not necessarily true and that belief came from just a lack of actually investigating it. More research is coming out showing the plants possibly do feel pain. We already know that they essentially scream when they're cut
When a *scientist* mentions viruses when talking about living things, you know they like the sound of their voice more than the intelligence required for their degree(s).
Great debunking of Tyson's specious speciesism video. (See what I did there?) As for fleas and ticks not being sentient, I'm not sure I would agree. Same for crickets, ants, cicadas, grubs, etc., though frankly I'm not sure how one would prove it one way or the other. But I'd still argue that it's morally defensible to be a vegan yet still eat insects simply because the likelihood of them feeling pain and suffering is small.
PS - so, if you believe that insects aren't sentient, would you be ethically ok with eating them?
why do onions make you cry when you cut it?
great point.
didnt check the new info about animal cause
while he totaly understand how ignorant of astronomy we where before.
understanding the ignorance of past for his branch of study,
and missing the point aobut sentience, pain, specisim.
hes smart agaisnt racism that cuase suffering to sentient being but not to specisism that cause suffering to sentient being.
hes so smart. just how?
Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
the truthful realization that most animals/humans will go for the reproductive parts of plants or their infants is truly thought-hitting!.. being herbivore seems morally cruel either (regardless the level down the energy tree they're eaten) ! i'm only thankful to both plants and animals for their energy in me
I fall in love with you a little bit more every time you make a video I swear.
So I have no idea who both of these guys are, but for the guy on the right this is the role of a lifetime. Like his input into the video - 10/10
That's Chuck Nice. He's a stand-up comedian.
@@JustOneAsbesto thanks!
Humans are carnivores
Paul Stamets, Diane Beresford-Kroeger and a whole host of other botanists and scientists in various flora sciences wholeheartedly disagree with your myopic take on plants and pain and suffering. Boulders, snow and rivers are not life forms.
I can’t tell if this is sarcasm. If it’s not then I agree😂
@@Menthepomme not sarcasm. Absolute science.
Even though it is pretty irrelevant and doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things, trees do feel stress and can feel some things, so it isn't like they feel nothing, they don't have a nervous system, but it was found that they still can feel some things, kinda funny also that salads scream when approached as to inform other salads to turn bitter, it is so not the same as unethical animal farming at all, but it is an interesting find.
Also I think cruelty and suffering isn't the only thing to consider. Sustainability also matters and network theories do point to things mattering that may have no value to us directly, but without those organisms whole networks would crash affecting us as well. But that I think is not at all what Neil is trying to bring up. But it isn't something to ignore when talking about "which organisms matter more" etc
It's like he almost understands veganism but he never gets there
Trees do suffer though, to suggest otherwise is very animal supremacist.
Stop eating trees then
Opossums are not nasty! They’re adorable!!!!
I think Neil's been spending too much time with a different kind of tree 🥬💨
so does tuna feel?
this guy cant get through one interview without cutting the interviewer off
They run the show together, like how late shows have a guy who stands off to the side to chat with.
But your point stands
HUMANS ARE FRUGIVORES
COOKED FOOD IS TOXIC
VIRUSES DO NOT EXIST
THERE IS NO PANDEMIC
VACCINES ARE TOXIC
KNOWLEDGE AND PROPER EDUCATION HELP A LOT
I don't have any friends because I smell like fish and have bad breath. I smell like rotten eggs and that's why I'm a virgin
@@smac2726 thanks for the advice!!! I am definitely getting the vaccine
@@pjryon2276 great!
I would totally eat those flowers
Trees do feel. So does stone.
"I don't value jugde one life over another based on its proximity to us on the tree of life, because it's all here and we're all sharing the same Earth." YES, we are! So Go Vegan!
"What does his diet look like? rocks?" 😂 Thank you for making this video! I heard him on Joe Rogan the other day talking about the vegan diet and saying that plants feel pain too.. Plants don't bleed, they don't have a central nervous system and they can't yell out in pain. He should just stick to astrophysics and stop making these weird 'I love all life therefore I can justify eating meat' arguments which make no sense.
Proud Speciaist💯
Thank you for addressing this “genius’s” ridiculous points
Give Jonathan Balcombe a try
I love Neil's work but clearly this is not his area of expertise.
From a moral standpoint, he’s saying that every living thing on this earth has its role. Plants are meant to be eaten and provide oxygen, herbivores (prey) are meant to be killed and hunted, omnivores are meant to hunt and gather vegetation, and carnivores just meant to hunt. That’s life regardless of who’s suffering or not and that’s how it’s meant to be.
speciesism:
In the animal rights movement, “speciesism” normally refers to the belief that all species of animal life are fundamentally equal. This view is an extremist position, bordering on pathological, as it contradicts basic principles of biological science and applied ethics (see Chapter 12 of this “A Final Instruction Sheet for Humanity” to properly understand both meta-ethics and normative ethics).
Anybody who believes that all animal species are equal in moral value will not be able to sustain that view when confronted with the option of destroying the life of either a gnat or that of a fellow human being. Equality is non-existent in this relative sphere, with the possible exception of equality in abstract concepts such as mathematics (for instance, 1+1 is precisely equal to 2), and arguably on the atomic and quantum levels (for example, two hydrogen atoms are essentially identical, as are two gluon subatomic particles).
English psychologist, Richard D. Ryder, who coined the term, defined it as “a prejudice or attitude of bias in favour of the interests of members of one’s own species and against those of members of other species”. This is a truly INANE philosophical position, because it is normal for a member of any particular species of animal to have a natural in-group preference for individuals of its own species. For example, if a pack of wolves was hunting a family of deer, why would one of the deer encourage a family member to run in the direction of the wolves? That would be counterintuitive and detrimental to the deer’s own species. If a race of superior aliens was to take-over the world, what kind of Homo sapiens would assist the aliens to conquer our own planet? Only a human who is mentally deranged, I would posit, unless that human believes that the destruction of humanity would be truly beneficial to the planet.
Therefore, to claim that it is immoral for a human to be biased towards his own species in certain circumstances, is blatantly erroneous, just as it is fallacious to claim that one should not be biased in favour of one’s gender or race in specific cases.
I have a particularly hilarious ANECDOTE in regards to this insane, delusional “philosophy”: an Englishman I befriended on a social media website informed me that he would gladly sacrifice his life for the life of a cockroach that may be killed in the home of a vegan who believes that it is morally-justifiable to exterminate vermin. And just in case one may believe that he was not actually serious, I can assure the reader that he was indeed serious in his statement. I know him quite well, and because his understanding of both metaethics and normative ethics is poor, he truly would sacrifice himself for a mere insect (although, I cannot imagine that he would actually go through with the deed if the situation presented itself to him - such is the nature of hypocritical, egalitarian leftists).
Therefore, according to the definitions of “speciesism” given above, I, the author of this Holiest of Holy Scriptures, am exceedingly proud to be among those SANE vegans who consider my own species to be of greater moral value than the life of a microbe or a fly. This does not imply that I would wantingly destroy the life of an inferior animal simply for the fact that it is not human, but that I would most definitely choose to destroy the life of an animal of another species in the case of self-defence, in order to survive a famine, or to protect my food supply, all of which adheres to the correct definition of the word “vegan”. As a general rule, one ought not exterminate vermin from one’s home or workplace if one is unwilling to kill the animal with one’s bare hands. In my particular case, for example, I am completely comfortable smacking a mosquito or an ant that is crawling on my skin, but I could never bring myself to catch a rodent with my hands and bash it to death with my fists. Rather, I would prefer to trap it in a cage and release it. So, obviously, I would never (and could never, at least psychologically) murder a cow or a pig, even if I was dying of starvation.
Therefore, according to the law (“dharma”, in Sanskrit), the rule that ought to be followed is that the higher the species (on the evolutionary scale), the more morally-valuable it is. I am certain that you, the reader, would instinctively attempt to rescue a dog or a rabbit over a drowning insect or lizard. Of course, it is not implied that every human intuition is morally-correct, yet in that particular case, it indeed conforms to authentic dharma. Incidentally, this pyramidical hierarchy of animal sentience/consciousness applies WITHIN the human species too. See the subsections regarding moral dilemmas and the ethics of abortion in Chapter 12, where, in the latter subsection, it is mentioned that the life of an embryo is not as morally-valuable as that of a five year-old child. It seems blatantly obvious to me that the typical person, when confronted with the choice of rescuing either a five year-old child or a batch of one hundred frozen embryos, would immediately and instinctively decide to save the five year-old child. Cf. “vegan” and “sentience”.
I feel like he is making argumentation for the point of view of "What about ALL species" instead of "What about all SENTIENT species" for his "speciesism" argument here, as yes the latter does give more value to sentient beings than like plants. Still missing the point that eating animals is less efficient than eating plants directly though in reducing "plant slaughter" as he put it.
Did he just essentially equate trampling grass with stomping on kittens? Is he drunk???? And to think that he is a respected scientist.
You said it best - REALLY??????? REALLY??????????
I'm an astronomer. Please people, there are so many amazing science communicators out there that deserve to be heard waaaaay more than this guy. STOP INTERVIEWING HIM.
Are there invertebrate mammals...?