@@darudesandstorm244 yeah. I was saying “don’t side B, Zain, it doesn’t work in this game like that” and then he did it. It’s like Zain really thought, “I don’t need to practice anything. How hard can it be?”
@@frixdubas a college student you’ll end up eventually at a frat house where they have smash and all the “best in the house” guys will be challenging each other. obviously they’d get smashed at a local but they’re usually good enough to know how to shield, go to ledge and basic bread and butter options. so they’re basically saying one of these guys could beat zain
Skyjay was probably a worse draw for the Melee players than Leo, because of how hard Incineroar punishes mistakes (like he said in the interview), and just generally being a stranger character than say Leo's Aegis and Byleth
@@toiletscrubbr everyone knows that lol, but the point of the comment is that incin as a character was probably just harder to get used to for the melee lads than any of leo's characters
If they did this again and actually wanted to tryhard, the crew would be hbox leffen plup wizzy. Skyjay is really good but I think that the melee crew could do it with that.
I think SkyJay would scrape plus and Wizzy too, at best they take a stock but Hbox could've just flat out beaten SkyJay. He's a top player in both games.
What Ludwig said at the beginning is so true. People at hangouts always say “I thought you played smash, I thought you competed at smash” blah blah blah and I’m like no they’re very different games
Weirdly feel like casuals come to grips with their differences after some brief explanations but I've found FGC people seem to think there's less of a distinction between the games than there really is
@TreyMM-qz4wg Playing ultimate after playing melee is like driving your car to work, however you're on the other side of the world using a busted madcats wireless controller from 2002 with a video feed streaming from nintendo's wifi servers, also your car is in a country where you drive on the opposite side of the road and all the signs are in a language you don't understand. Your car is also missing half its gears and the other half have been replaced with components from a ford model t manufactured in 1912.
@@queuedjar4578 the input buffer's the main thing that killed off Ultimate for me in the end I already thought it was a tad too high in Smash 4 & idk why the upped it after brawl tbh The short hop aerial thing was well intended but they inadvertantly butchered full hop aerials 💔 One upside is Up smash out of shield's easy with every character 😫
Skyway Incineroar is the perfect player and character for this type of event. Incineroar just dishes out damage and if you don't know how to get around him you're so done
@@Babaganoush44I think it has to do with the fact that playing Incineroar you really have to remain calm at all times. There are just some times where you lose very badly.
yeah, apart from the whole pronoun thing which is obv a non-issue bc he didn't know, there was no way he could have done that interview in a kinder and nicer way
not too surprsing. Amsa has always mained different characters in every smash game aside from 64. In smash 4 he was a greninja main for example and in PM he mained Lucario
@@firewall5189 iirc he started off playing smash 64 and really grew attached to Yoshi in that game since he's been playin Yoshi in other games like Mario party and mario kart. He vibed well with how he played in 64 and went on to play and main him in Melee where he's pretty similar in a lot of ways in Melee as well.
@@shadownite3378 Yeah but you can't play Yoshi in ULtimate to adapt to him in melee. Too different, like why M2K doesn't touch Marth in Ultimate; if he had the same work ethic as he did in melee. He'd be godlike and top 5 imo they got the discipline and skill but man M2K was worse than Dabuz when it came to MU analysis.
yea i agree, i literally cannot play any other fighting game, in guilty gear, i just completely break down, my brain goes like, wavedash back and punish their move, then i wavedash back and nothing happens because thats not the game im playing
@@spimbles It would actually be more in Ultimate's favor if Melee players were able to easily transition into Ultimate and learn the game. However, Ultimate's design makes this not the reality unfortunately.
This reminds me of watching a modern SF pro play an old SF game, and just how well fundamentals translated throughout the SF series. Now I'm starting to think that knowing the game is more important than carrying over really good fundamentals in Smash lol
No shit, there's 80 characters all with unique gimmicks. Just with Incineroar you have to be aware of the power of his command grab in disadvantage, a 2 frame counter breaker in advantage, and an invincible special move. Add to it that the games don't even share the same mechanics (ie watching them near the ledge, wavedashing, dash dancing, and buffering) and you get some hilarious gameplay like this.
the neutral in street fighter doesn't shift much because the movement speed and frame data is consistent across series. All of the smash bro's games vary wildly in that regard. knowing the game is a prerequisite for even being able to use fundamentals in smash bros.
@TreyMM-qz4wg if every character is influenced by those factors, how does it make the game easier? you're not yielding an advantage of any kind thanks to it. maybe you find smash bros hard because of recovering, buddy.
I think Tekken is a great example. A Tekken pro could skip all of 7 but played the shit out of 6 and TTT2 and still be able to hang in 7 with awareness, fundamentals and spacing. Even with the new mechanics, added moves and new characters. Tekken is after all is a legacy game
Destruction aside it must've felt very awkward not having to double jump after 0.2 secconds while offstage or having to angle their up b's at exactly 56.78 degrees to snap the ledge.
um actually you're wrong the angle is 56.7723 degrees sir. This is also after you fast fall for two frames, make sure your ECB is flat enough after doing the up B, and you're also in ICG. Also don't forget to remember which port you're plugged into.
Skyjay prob worst case scenario for melee players lol, incineroar is such a weird character that really punished lack of knowledge and ESPECIALLY imprecise movement
@@SSJPENGUIN bowser has a similar command grab that gives him tons of value but he's a shit irrelevant character so ur technically wrong but you're actually right
@TreyMM-qz4wg doesnt have to do with the tier of the character, there's no character that comes even close to incineroar in melee. they would have done way better against proto or sparg0 than skyjay, and would have gotten stomped even harder by riddles or acola
the real killer looks like the shorter hitstun, skyjay gets away with far longer strings than he should cuz the melee players dont buffer defensive options and cant time them with the completely different length
I mean they are used to combos basically being free form to being super strict. Fox can hit so much of a shine in melee but in ultimate you have to know his specific combos that will work in the small hitstun window.
I say it's melee players are not used to buffering, the slightly more forgiving recoveries and the air time diffrence between falling and fast falling(since most melee cast falls so fast anyways while stalling in the air is a good option in ultimate).It's like telling a jet fighter pilot to fly a civilian airplane.
@@ahmadkazan5473 I'm not saying those aren't factors. I'm saying Incineroar is one of the hardest match ups for a non-Ultimate player, since the character has unique mechanics and is Ultimate-exclusive lol. All of what you said would apply with any characters. But obviously the actual biggest difference is no wavedashing. lol.
@TreyMM-qz4wg That doesn't make sense, the pro player of the inferior game was the one dominating in this video. Go to sleep, little Ultimate baby. The grown ups are talking here.
as an ultimate player this was peak. incin is one of the best at punishing mistakes so this was brutal lolll. i could see all the melee options being hard punished cus this isnt melee. watching zain double jump from ledge twice and salt recover high...
I think of the Melee players that could do well, Plup and Wizzrobe would not get clean 3-0'ed since they've been more openminded and willing to play Ult now and then. Leffen just wouldn't play since he hates the game. Hbox wouldn't be fair in this since he has played Skyjay and regularly plays the game. (edit) Funny to see how Salty Melee viewerbase are with this video, it's just for fun. Lol even the Melee commentators were shitting on the top Melee playerbase for lack of variety in their skillset, or just casual talk for other games.
@@rossstrickland1722 I don't actually think so. Ultimate fundamentals can work well enough in Melee to at least net them a few stocks. Which isn't an insult to melee, actually, it's a benefit for that game that players can back track from the new game back to Melee, probably another reason why it's lasted so long. The only thing required is to build off those fundamentals and implement melee's tech and movement options with them.
@@queuedjar4578 Melees tech and movement is incredibly specialized as they’d said in the video. The game is broken in so many ways that the tech is just too unique almost.
@@rossstrickland1722 melee is definitely unique, however not impossible to figure out. For one, it's much more comfortable and noticeably better for someone to go from ultimate's seventeen centuries of input lag to melee's near instant responsiveness. If you're good at ultimate's fundamentals then that itself is a good base for building melee fundamentals. Simple yet effective stuff like spacing a marth f smash or chaining sheik's many moves that combo into each other requires basically zero tech skill, and is something an ultimate player can pick up on quite easily, then just build from there. The only immediate hurdle I could see is getting over the near complete lack of buffer, though in my honest opinion it's much easier to understand how the buttons you press = the input you get in that time as compared to the buttons you press = the first immediate input and also the next three inputs in the future.
If M2K and HBox were in the mix it'd probably be a lot more interesting, mainly since M2K played inciniroar back in the beginning of Ultimate and HBox still plays Ultimate and is decent. But that might defeat the purpose of this.
Nah melee players are able to do both well. Back when wobbling was legal and even in certain matchups, melee players have top tier discipline about when to approach
@@reenans2860 you say that but there's literally an entire documentary made on how rare it is for top melee pros to camp. E.g. westballz refusing to platform camp armada even when he could have won a set against him for the first and only time ever. ua-cam.com/video/z8llYT7KGdI/v-deo.html
@TreyMM-qz4wg lol imagine playing a game without any movement options like dash dancing, footsies, wave dashing/wavelanding, shield drops. I play both games, but ultimate players are literally playing a dumbed down game for children since Sakurai hates competitive smash.
im a cs player, i dont play fighting games, but i like watching them. melee seems like a lot more of an actual esport while a lot of other fighting games are just games. its tricky for me to call something a sport when you add characters all the time and by extension, change the rules constantly. They adding new shit to football and basketball i dont know about? nah, they facilitate an environment that rewards mastery. I feel the same way about mobas. that shit is not an esport lmao
that's a very interesting way to look at it. i think the constantly evolving meta plays a part in the mental part of the sport, the adaptation, you know? but it can also feel a little cheesy sometimes. there have been sports that have changed rules and such over time that i'm sure made a lot of competitors feel a little shafted. i know racing is one that has had plenty of rule updates, mainly for safety. i also recently learned that the pole jump didn't used to have foam on the other side of the pole, so competitors would have to go over it in a way that they could land on their feet. now, they can go backwards over it and reach higher distances.
Yeah they had no idea what was going on. Even ult players hate fighting Incin hes got so much cheese to look out for. This was still fun to watch but it would have been cool to see them fight a melee char and at least get their footing.
@@shottss5471 that wouldn't have been fun to watch tho lol the point of this type of side event is to put top players in a spot where they don't know shit
@@rexthereptile2492 Yeah. I think it's partially because the input lag and buffer are so different. But there's a lot of stuff that causes bad habits both ways.
@@colinhay1666The input lag and buffer system are insanely hard for me to adjust to going back and forth. I have so much respect for those who can be top players across multiple Smash games.
I think melee is such a unique game that you have to really change how you actually think about fighting games in general to be good at it All the other smash games (including 64) teach the importance of neutral and maintaining advantage. In Melee you can (until super high level) really just ignore that and focus almost exclusively on technical execution strings and that can just overwhelm a lot of people and get you way farther than almost any other fighting game out there.
just to start a conversation my list would be Skyjay, Acola, Riddles if he played Kazuya and it was a good day, if not Spargoat. MKLeo would be on here but bro lost a stock to EE 💀. That's unforgivable
this was painful to watch, they put it nicely, whiffing feels so bad and having to "string" together moves that cover many options and choosing them preemptively is the name of the game rather than reaction edit: im not even a melee fan or player
11:48 pls someone tell me how you unlock this song for the animal crossing stages. Having this song play would be better than some of the other ones that normally play lmao
Wow, such a surprise that someone who spends their time grinding one specific game isn't amazing at other games that are similar but VERY DIFFERENT. Incredible, I'm so blown away that their game-specific-tech doesn't translate to a DIFFERENT game........
Zain wasn't even trying to play ultimate he was just playing melee LMAOOO
@@scs44444 Ultimate players...
I mean, Melee's the game he practiced so, yes, that's how he would tend to play
it reminded me of that one clickhole skit where a hibachi chef tries making food on a regular table LOL
Looking at gameplay of ultimate but seeing a playstyle that's unmistakably melee was the funniest thing I've seen today.
@@queuedjar4578 take a shower and stop playing games made for children.
Zains Lucina was the most beautifully bad melee brained play Ive ever seen and I absolutely loved it
Seeing that side b whilst recovering just. Killed me LOL
The attempted shield break edge guard is serious melee brain rot
the drop down double jump from ledge was so out of pocket Skyjay wasn't even prepared to punish, that was SO funny
@@darudesandstorm244 yeah. I was saying “don’t side B, Zain, it doesn’t work in this game like that” and then he did it.
It’s like Zain really thought, “I don’t need to practice anything. How hard can it be?”
@@thegoodgeneralPracticing for a side meme event when you’re playing main bracket at the largest major of the year would be a little silly lmao
I can SEE everything Zain wants to be doing if he were Melee Marth lmao
"why the FUCK am I not sliding off of this ledge?" -a very poor lost and confused zain in ultimate
Well now we have something else...
“Zain would lose to a dude who’s holding like a red cup.”
Holy shit, Phil.
lmao
What that mean?
wuh
@@frixdubZain would lose to a rando drinking at a party.
@@frixdubas a college student you’ll end up eventually at a frat house where they have smash and all the “best in the house” guys will be challenging each other. obviously they’d get smashed at a local but they’re usually good enough to know how to shield, go to ledge and basic bread and butter options. so they’re basically saying one of these guys could beat zain
this is basically our new summit right? same chill vibes / cool side events? super clean layout? i love it
It’s at the same venue
We love mooching off youtubers.
don't disrespect summit like that
also Offbrand hired lots of the Beyond the Summit employees after the fallout, so probably lots of the same crew behind the scenes
@@AndrewSlee9 definitely though this yeah, glad they got something new, lots of talent for sure!!
Skyjay was probably a worse draw for the Melee players than Leo, because of how hard Incineroar punishes mistakes (like he said in the interview), and just generally being a stranger character than say Leo's Aegis and Byleth
Dude i didnt even fucking know Incineroar was in this game
lol leo punishes mistakes better than skyjay
@@toiletscrubbr everyone knows that lol, but the point of the comment is that incin as a character was probably just harder to get used to for the melee lads than any of leo's characters
@@toiletscrubbr yeah but incineroar punish mistakes better than leo
Incineroar is just such a peculiar character, and is very different from anything in melee, I think.
I’d love to see skyjay do it again where they keep throwing players at him until he’s out of stocks
disgusting pfp, fckin revlting
A crew battle, but Skyjay is one of the crews.
Sounds good tbh.
Bringing back Smash the Record's "[player] vs. the baddies?" HELL yeah
@@ByrneBaby That shit was awesome. My favorite I remember was Shroomed's vs. Random Fox players.
If they did this again and actually wanted to tryhard, the crew would be hbox leffen plup wizzy. Skyjay is really good but I think that the melee crew could do it with that.
this is hilarious cody’s reaction was peak. would love to see this the other way around
They would do worse than the melee players did for sure
@@mystraunt2705idk how you could do much worse to be honest
@@mystraunt2705depends on the ultimate players
if they get 4 stocks they might have more of a chance but idk
@@jonny7444 No, and Ultimate isn't played with 4 stocks competitively anyway.
really cool concept, would love to see it the other way around too
Yeah put Riddles, ESAM, and whoever else up there
Remember when ultimate came out and Leffen was arguably top 10
@@ThatOneGuyEef He was never arguably top 10
@@ThatOneGuyEef he was only ever maybe arguably top 50 lmao
Kola went game 3 with AMSA at collision. And spargo and tweek are good at melee too
If they sent in plup, hbox and wizzy it would've actually been a match lol
Hbox has actually taken games off Skyjay by himself, so yeah.
but it wouldn’t have been funny so this was better lmao
HBox and Leffen were actually at this event. I'm kinda surprised they didn't pull them in, they're definitely better than Cody or Zain.
I think SkyJay would scrape plus and Wizzy too, at best they take a stock but Hbox could've just flat out beaten SkyJay. He's a top player in both games.
@@tree2992just more fun with this group probably
Fun fact, Amsa play tested ultimate
Wym?
Amsa was of the play testers along with earth and some others
@@akiraenishi8299B and Ranai
@@Ldavis_i miss ranai man
@@crosby939 we all do😭😭😭
What Ludwig said at the beginning is so true. People at hangouts always say “I thought you played smash, I thought you competed at smash” blah blah blah and I’m like no they’re very different games
"Oh, I thought you played."
Bruh I'm not only battling your gimmicks, I'm also battling the ability to move my fucking character where I want them 😂
@TreyMM-qz4wgI feel like, outside of some weird RNG & the poor implementation of rage, Smash 4 felt more about fundamentals than Ultimate
Weirdly feel like casuals come to grips with their differences after some brief explanations but I've found FGC people seem to think there's less of a distinction between the games than there really is
@TreyMM-qz4wg Playing ultimate after playing melee is like driving your car to work, however you're on the other side of the world using a busted madcats wireless controller from 2002 with a video feed streaming from nintendo's wifi servers, also your car is in a country where you drive on the opposite side of the road and all the signs are in a language you don't understand. Your car is also missing half its gears and the other half have been replaced with components from a ford model t manufactured in 1912.
@@queuedjar4578 the input buffer's the main thing that killed off Ultimate for me in the end
I already thought it was a tad too high in Smash 4 & idk why the upped it after brawl tbh
The short hop aerial thing was well intended but they inadvertantly butchered full hop aerials 💔
One upside is Up smash out of shield's easy with every character 😫
Skyway Incineroar is the perfect player and character for this type of event. Incineroar just dishes out damage and if you don't know how to get around him you're so done
Yea incin is a character that heavily capitalizes off of mistakes
One of my favorite things about Skyjay is you can just tell that he is a good person. Always having a good time when he is playing…
Zain going back to ledge thinking it gives him invincibility lmao
Profesional Chefs vs Mike Tyson in the boxing ring:
Melee players aren't even skillful players lol
@@ABC-ik9vjonly seems that way cuz ultimate isn’t isn’t a skillful game lol
@@brainbarz both doesn't require skill lol, it's a child game, street fighter and tekken are way better and requires skill
Wow, these comments are getting progressively more idiotic and we're only like 3 into this thread.
@@ABC-ik9vj you’re either 7 years old or 38 with that take and on either end your iq remains the same
Skyjay was being very nice at the end
He always has a huge smile and seems like a genuinely good dude in all his interviews
@@Babaganoush44I think it has to do with the fact that playing Incineroar you really have to remain calm at all times. There are just some times where you lose very badly.
@@alephkasai9384 Kinda the low tier special, gotta get stomped into the next realm a few hundred times to finally get on the podium
skyjay the people’s champ
13:34 "Trash! Fraudulent!" The pop-off 😂
'Aren't you a smash guy?'
"NO, BITCH!"
I love that guy
God I love skyjay, watching him is so fun and he seems like such a nice and fun person
yeah, apart from the whole pronoun thing which is obv a non-issue bc he didn't know, there was no way he could have done that interview in a kinder and nicer way
Skyjay is probably the nicest players I've seen in any professional environment like this.
Amsa not picking yoshi feels so wrong😂
That is amsa red yoshi tho
not too surprsing. Amsa has always mained different characters in every smash game aside from 64. In smash 4 he was a greninja main for example and in PM he mained Lucario
@@shadownite3378 ngl prior to this comment i had no idea amsa played anything other than melee, so thats honestly so cool to hear
@@firewall5189 iirc he started off playing smash 64 and really grew attached to Yoshi in that game since he's been playin Yoshi in other games like Mario party and mario kart. He vibed well with how he played in 64 and went on to play and main him in Melee where he's pretty similar in a lot of ways in Melee as well.
@@shadownite3378 Yeah but you can't play Yoshi in ULtimate to adapt to him in melee. Too different, like why M2K doesn't touch Marth in Ultimate; if he had the same work ethic as he did in melee. He'd be godlike and top 5 imo they got the discipline and skill but man M2K was worse than Dabuz when it came to MU analysis.
This video was just for fun, all the players had fun and had some funny reactions. Its not that serious, no need to get offended.
i'm offended
@@00ooo000othats OfFanSaive
yea i agree, i literally cannot play any other fighting game, in guilty gear, i just completely break down, my brain goes like, wavedash back and punish their move, then i wavedash back and nothing happens because thats not the game im playing
Down bad😂
Melee players kekw
Be like that
Samus players be like
Seeing those tvs makes it feel like this guy traveled back in time
Guys it's just fun to see crossovers, stop making this a melee vs ult thing.
Bruh… it’s quite literally a melee vs ult thing
@@fjdkslfjdkwhgioperwhgjkoldsf Actually it's quite literally Skyjay vs top Melee players.
its cringe seeing so many ult players genuinely relishing this like "get owned melee players" LMFAOOOO
@@spimblesYeh, sadly kind of expected. If it was the other way around (which I would love to see), people would be saying the same thing.
@@spimbles It would actually be more in Ultimate's favor if Melee players were able to easily transition into Ultimate and learn the game. However, Ultimate's design makes this not the reality unfortunately.
This is one of the best commentaries in the business
🤦🏻♂️
This reminds me of watching a modern SF pro play an old SF game, and just how well fundamentals translated throughout the SF series. Now I'm starting to think that knowing the game is more important than carrying over really good fundamentals in Smash lol
No shit, there's 80 characters all with unique gimmicks.
Just with Incineroar you have to be aware of the power of his command grab in disadvantage, a 2 frame counter breaker in advantage, and an invincible special move.
Add to it that the games don't even share the same mechanics (ie watching them near the ledge, wavedashing, dash dancing, and buffering) and you get some hilarious gameplay like this.
the neutral in street fighter doesn't shift much because the movement speed and frame data is consistent across series. All of the smash bro's games vary wildly in that regard. knowing the game is a prerequisite for even being able to use fundamentals in smash bros.
@TreyMM-qz4wg if every character is influenced by those factors, how does it make the game easier? you're not yielding an advantage of any kind thanks to it. maybe you find smash bros hard because of recovering, buddy.
I think Tekken is a great example.
A Tekken pro could skip all of 7 but played the shit out of 6 and TTT2 and still be able to hang in 7 with awareness, fundamentals and spacing. Even with the new mechanics, added moves and new characters. Tekken is after all is a legacy game
Destruction aside it must've felt very awkward not having to double jump after 0.2 secconds while offstage or having to angle their up b's at exactly 56.78 degrees to snap the ledge.
It was also probably awkward to hit someone and not have them be and hit stun for 10 seconds.
um actually you're wrong the angle is 56.7723 degrees sir. This is also after you fast fall for two frames, make sure your ECB is flat enough after doing the up B, and you're also in ICG. Also don't forget to remember which port you're plugged into.
He's giving the same vibe as when UFC fighters tell boxers they cant beat them in the octagon
13:55 trif: why are they poppin off?
Skyjay prob worst case scenario for melee players lol, incineroar is such a weird character that really punished lack of knowledge and ESPECIALLY imprecise movement
Truth, there isn't really an equivalent to Incineroar within Melee 😫
@TreyMM-qz4wgMid-tiers are strong in every smash title, when the opponent's unsure on the match-up 😫
@@SSJPENGUIN bowser has a similar command grab that gives him tons of value but he's a shit irrelevant character so ur technically wrong but you're actually right
@TreyMM-qz4wg doesnt have to do with the tier of the character, there's no character that comes even close to incineroar in melee. they would have done way better against proto or sparg0 than skyjay, and would have gotten stomped even harder by riddles or acola
“That counts, that counts, that counts, that counts, that counts” 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Skyjay is so wholesome
Just started watching. I have a feeling 6 stocks is wayyyy too much lol
I was indeed more correct than I thought
Playing against a good Incin as a shitter in Ult gotta be one of the most demoralizing feelings lol
idk, remember that one time jahzzo matched up vs cody in melee and got jv4'd? that has to be up there lol
@TreyMM-qz4wg live mom and dad reaction: 🙍♀🙍♂️
@TreyMM-qz4wgdelusional behavior
@TreyMM-qz4wgpost slippi rank rn
the real killer looks like the shorter hitstun, skyjay gets away with far longer strings than he should cuz the melee players dont buffer defensive options and cant time them with the completely different length
I mean they are used to combos basically being free form to being super strict. Fox can hit so much of a shine in melee but in ultimate you have to know his specific combos that will work in the small hitstun window.
Always love watching SkyJay play. Hope more content creators get him to play with them because it make for some excellent vids.
Every time I see an ultimate vid and give the game a shot again I always regret it
incineroar's armor makes fundamentals not translate so well in that match up with a melee player
incin doesn’t have hardly any armor just a tad bit on the activation of side b’s grab
There's parts of his up b that have armor too I believe
I say it's melee players are not used to buffering, the slightly more forgiving recoveries and the air time diffrence between falling and fast falling(since most melee cast falls so fast anyways while stalling in the air is a good option in ultimate).It's like telling a jet fighter pilot to fly a civilian airplane.
@@funjukebox1324I think it’s like the first couple frames of the up b
@@ahmadkazan5473 I'm not saying those aren't factors. I'm saying Incineroar is one of the hardest match ups for a non-Ultimate player, since the character has unique mechanics and is Ultimate-exclusive lol. All of what you said would apply with any characters.
But obviously the actual biggest difference is no wavedashing. lol.
Someone should make a mod where melee characters receive melee mechanics and framedata lol. That would be so fun to watch!
It exists. Its called HDR mod
it exists & is fun but not the best balancing (duck hunt !!! is literally ban worthy broken)
take a shower and stop playing games made for children.
@@KuroShiiiiro cause its for pedophiles/
@@JohnathanWilliamson849 actually based af?
Skyjay completely DOMINATES the top Melee pros (AT ULTIMATE)
Fr, like what were they expecting, the pro Ultimate player losing to the pro Melee players?
@TreyMM-qz4wg That doesn't make sense, the pro player of the inferior game was the one dominating in this video. Go to sleep, little Ultimate baby. The grown ups are talking here.
@TreyMM-qz4wg lol buddy wants attention
Ludwig recreated bros vs pros
Ok tho but a many of melee players playing that new SF6 which is so dope to see
Riddles, Void, and Jahzzo are goated in SF6
i havent realised until now how slow is ultimate compared to melee lol seeing zains lucina trying to dashdance it hurts my souls
I’d love to see ultimate players play zain and mango in melee
as an ultimate player this was peak. incin is one of the best at punishing mistakes so this was brutal lolll. i could see all the melee options being hard punished cus this isnt melee. watching zain double jump from ledge twice and salt recover high...
going from melee to ultimate is like going from a race car to a unicyle
Its so funny watching Skyjay play against Leo because Leo isn't phased at all by incinaroar
I think of the Melee players that could do well, Plup and Wizzrobe would not get clean 3-0'ed since they've been more openminded and willing to play Ult now and then. Leffen just wouldn't play since he hates the game. Hbox wouldn't be fair in this since he has played Skyjay and regularly plays the game.
(edit)
Funny to see how Salty Melee viewerbase are with this video, it's just for fun. Lol even the Melee commentators were shitting on the top Melee playerbase for lack of variety in their skillset, or just casual talk for other games.
open minded? bro people are allowed to not like things lol
Wizzrobe has beaten tweek before
@@dominater5 yes, constantly shitting on and crying about other games makes you close-minded
Wizzrobe is like 2 time smash master champion lol
@@eyeris4050 I know, prob my fav upset match that people don't talk more about
I would love to see zain vs top ultimate players in melee
It would be just as bad in the reverse tbh.
@@rossstrickland1722 I don't actually think so. Ultimate fundamentals can work well enough in Melee to at least net them a few stocks. Which isn't an insult to melee, actually, it's a benefit for that game that players can back track from the new game back to Melee, probably another reason why it's lasted so long. The only thing required is to build off those fundamentals and implement melee's tech and movement options with them.
@@queuedjar4578 Melees tech and movement is incredibly specialized as they’d said in the video. The game is broken in so many ways that the tech is just too unique almost.
@@queuedjar4578this is so beyond incorrect btw
@@rossstrickland1722 melee is definitely unique, however not impossible to figure out. For one, it's much more comfortable and noticeably better for someone to go from ultimate's seventeen centuries of input lag to melee's near instant responsiveness. If you're good at ultimate's fundamentals then that itself is a good base for building melee fundamentals. Simple yet effective stuff like spacing a marth f smash or chaining sheik's many moves that combo into each other requires basically zero tech skill, and is something an ultimate player can pick up on quite easily, then just build from there. The only immediate hurdle I could see is getting over the near complete lack of buffer, though in my honest opinion it's much easier to understand how the buttons you press = the input you get in that time as compared to the buttons you press = the first immediate input and also the next three inputs in the future.
If M2K and HBox were in the mix it'd probably be a lot more interesting, mainly since M2K played inciniroar back in the beginning of Ultimate and HBox still plays Ultimate and is decent. But that might defeat the purpose of this.
Leffen too. dont forget that he was area 51 on the first ult pgr
I think it’s funnier if it’s melee players who aren’t familiar with the game
yeah would be a closer game, but would defeat the purpose of seeing if melee skill carries over into ultimate skill I feel
doing this with the melee players who are actually decent at ultimate would have been fun
now im wondering what the best crew is that leffen, plup, hbox and wizzrobe could beat if properly warmed up
they could take on some combination of pgr players forsure
Seriously skilled put put golfer absolutely destroys these PGA Tour veterans when they try their hand at it 💀
The fact that it technically was a JV6 just makes this even more hilarious for me LMAOOOOO
14:02 "only big left can save us"
*Calls therapist*
When you're too melee brained to camp
Nah melee players are able to do both well. Back when wobbling was legal and even in certain matchups, melee players have top tier discipline about when to approach
@@reenans2860 you say that but there's literally an entire documentary made on how rare it is for top melee pros to camp. E.g. westballz refusing to platform camp armada even when he could have won a set against him for the first and only time ever. ua-cam.com/video/z8llYT7KGdI/v-deo.html
@@reenans2860 if only we saw any semblance of that top tier discipline in this play, at all.
@TreyMM-qz4wg lol imagine playing a game without any movement options like dash dancing, footsies, wave dashing/wavelanding, shield drops. I play both games, but ultimate players are literally playing a dumbed down game for children since Sakurai hates competitive smash.
@@juliansanderson839 of course they're not gonna camp, they're playing in a side event that's mostly just for fun
now this is content.
im a cs player, i dont play fighting games, but i like watching them. melee seems like a lot more of an actual esport while a lot of other fighting games are just games. its tricky for me to call something a sport when you add characters all the time and by extension, change the rules constantly. They adding new shit to football and basketball i dont know about? nah, they facilitate an environment that rewards mastery. I feel the same way about mobas. that shit is not an esport lmao
that's a very interesting way to look at it. i think the constantly evolving meta plays a part in the mental part of the sport, the adaptation, you know? but it can also feel a little cheesy sometimes.
there have been sports that have changed rules and such over time that i'm sure made a lot of competitors feel a little shafted. i know racing is one that has had plenty of rule updates, mainly for safety. i also recently learned that the pole jump didn't used to have foam on the other side of the pole, so competitors would have to go over it in a way that they could land on their feet. now, they can go backwards over it and reach higher distances.
Btw they do change rules in sports, and in baseball they actually still invent new throws people have to learn how to hit
@@bahaman19901 Baseball is a game bro
i didnt even know lud was throwing a tourney!?!? is the whole thing finished im off this weekend lol this is dope
It's being streamed on his YT channel all weekend! LACS5 is going strong and swiss stage starts in less than an hour.
Why did it have to be against Incineroar
Yeah they had no idea what was going on. Even ult players hate fighting Incin hes got so much cheese to look out for. This was still fun to watch but it would have been cool to see them fight a melee char and at least get their footing.
idk but Luminosity Gaming owns like a lot of the top Ultimate players. they could have sent any one really
Incineroar is a hard matchup check character, if you don’t know how to deal with him he’ll bully you hard.
Fighter Number 69
@@shottss5471 that wouldn't have been fun to watch tho lol the point of this type of side event is to put top players in a spot where they don't know shit
Woah a top player beats top players is a completely different game, WOW! /s
Skyjay played the most online Inceneroar I've ever seen him play
This is so fun omg the skills are so specialized
Melee makes me worse at ultimate and ultimate makes me worse at Melee
real
@@rexthereptile2492 Yeah. I think it's partially because the input lag and buffer are so different. But there's a lot of stuff that causes bad habits both ways.
@@colinhay1666The input lag and buffer system are insanely hard for me to adjust to going back and forth. I have so much respect for those who can be top players across multiple Smash games.
I play ult on a pro controller so I can differentiate the two games, works like a charm and my melee techskill isn't being diluted
@@rexthereptile2492the games feel so different
I shneed more of this. Melee vs. Ultimate is tight
lmao melee players in the comments are sooooo mad wtf. Of course it's a different fucking game but they're just having fun
How is it fun to watch a pro beat unranked players? Leo vs Spargo or Hbox vs Mango, now that's fun. But not this.
@@BakingSoda4Ucope
@@chewbacachunks8644 Thanks for showcasing the average IQ of those who find this "funny" with that well developed and thought-provoking rebuttal.
@@BakingSoda4U cope
@@chewbacachunks8644 Oops, I knew you were fragile but I didn't think you'd become a broken record so easily! My bad, sorry.
I wish we got to see AMSA’s Greninja
"Byleth is probably the best fire emblem character, right?" Really forgot about Roy and Lucina, huh? 😅
Lucina > Byleth > Roy
@@jaidsalgadoroy is better than byleth lmao
Literally Mkleo bias, after seeing him win so much with Byleth
what is this list 💀Roy is the best and Byleth is the worst
it should be Roy > Lucina > Byleth
@@AshenDemon this is the correct order
This shows how the mindset and skills of ult are completely different.
Cheers to all the competitors.
I think melee is such a unique game that you have to really change how you actually think about fighting games in general to be good at it
All the other smash games (including 64) teach the importance of neutral and maintaining advantage. In Melee you can (until super high level) really just ignore that and focus almost exclusively on technical execution strings and that can just overwhelm a lot of people and get you way farther than almost any other fighting game out there.
theres only like 3 players in the top 50 that wouldve been a bad option for melee players to face and skyjay was one of them
just to start a conversation my list would be Skyjay, Acola, Riddles if he played Kazuya and it was a good day, if not Spargoat.
MKLeo would be on here but bro lost a stock to EE 💀. That's unforgivable
actually Bloom could fit in here or Mute
Wouldve loved to se more melee players thrown in there
I wanted to see KoDoRiN so bad
It’s almost like they’re two diff games or something 🤔
One is a dead game and the other is full of players with dlcs, not the same
bro commentary was great
this was painful to watch, they put it nicely, whiffing feels so bad and having to "string" together moves that cover many options and choosing them preemptively is the name of the game rather than reaction
edit: im not even a melee fan or player
11:48 pls someone tell me how you unlock this song for the animal crossing stages. Having this song play would be better than some of the other ones that normally play lmao
I play forza melee and dance dance revolution when they said melee is just different thats bein real
If Leffen and Mango were in the lineup they would actually stand a chance.
Can we see the reverse now?
ludwig talking about himself while theres shit to commentate is classic lud lmao
Ooh pretty colors in the thumbnail NOW I guess I'll watch it 😉
damn zain is actually playing lucina like hes at 100,000 gsp
Wow, such a surprise that someone who spends their time grinding one specific game isn't amazing at other games that are similar but VERY DIFFERENT. Incredible, I'm so blown away that their game-specific-tech doesn't translate to a DIFFERENT game........
I'm honestly surprised no one from Melee played Chrom
4:51 LMAOOOOOOOOOOO THAT IS SO ZAIN
Amsa as ROY ..... WOW
Thats insane how all Melee Pro Player Transition to someone else
He went from Yoshi Island to Fire Emblem
Thats amazing
the first thing Zain does not even starting the game, is a wavedash on plat.
hahahahaha 4:33
Jsus is looking at you 3:24
Y'all don't remember the project m vs melee crew battle?
How about the project M Dennys vs IHOP crew battle
Shouldve thrown Leffen, Hbox, Wizzy, and Plup at him.
now I need to see this with other top Ultimate players. Specifically AK, cause imagining these players having to deal with Snake sounds hilarious,
So much fun to watch
Ultimate is a different beast but melee is always gonna be a classic and why don’t those guys play melee against the same people
This was a cool side event
Exactly the content I want to see
what channel is this streaming on youtube right?
Ludwig’s UA-cam channel @Ludwig
Literally if they just didn’t hold forward their chances of taking a stock eventually would go up sm
Fuck ultimate
Was there an opposite? Ult players vs melee?
Its not that serious yall. Idk if you can tell but all the players are SMILING and you should too. Enjoy the content, its for fun