MKLeo and Coney Talk About the Smash Community
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- Опубліковано 13 лип 2024
- In this week’s episode of GOAT Talk MKLeo and Maister sit down with Coney and EE to talk about the Smash Ultimate Community. What do you think about Steve in Smash Ultimate? Is Steve broken in Smash Ultimate and will Steve kill the game? Why are players so attached to certain characters? How do you rank Smash Ultimate events and tournaments? The history of Coney’s beef with Mexico. Why it’s great to see Smash players making content. What if your main is bad in the new Smash Bros. game? Is MKLeo one of the greatest esports players ever? Is the Smash Community toxic?
0:00 Welcome to the Show
1:27 Thoughts on Steve
8:43 Will Steve Kill the Game?
12:35 Are Players Attached to Their Character?
17:42 Smash Event Rankings
25:00 Coney vs. Mexico
31:37 Smash Players Making More Content
37:16 What If Your Main is Bad in the Next Game?
41:06 Is MKLeo One of the Greatest Gamers Ever?
45:14 Is the Smash Community Toxic?
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#supersmashbrosultimate #mkleo #coney - Ігри
"I feel like Mexico hates me"
You know what you have to do to fix that Coney. Its time to eat the Lengua
Never
@@CONEYZZ Sub goal?
@@CONEYZZ LOL
LOL
All he needs to do is play kof and say "ban rugal" and he'll be beloved by mexico lmao
The difference between the online and in-person community is night and day, a vast majority of the online presence is whining and complaining but in person everyone is very chill, they just wanna hang out and press buttons
More like the people who are willing to travel to tournaments are also likely more eager to grind instead of rage quit and online match in anger
almost true but the players might be quiet in person but they goto an event coordinator like the Karen they are...
then go home and whine online
@@usern4metak3nsthis is how it works, quite often it's the same people who want to be a certain way online but are super nice in person, for obvious reasons
All bark no bite with the online smash community, none of these "hot takes" or tier lists or character complaining happens when at an in-person tournament. Exclude Twitter from your life and the Smash community will actually seem very chill and well-spoken for the most part.
I’ve only really interacted with the community online and have never felt like a part of the smash community. Just feel like kind of a bystander
Lol they could make every stage legal and over 50% of matches would be PS2
Hey man wario ware
Shit is wild to me.
I really like hearing insightful Coney. He has a really sincere and rooted point of view. Funny Coney is cool, but insightful Coney I like as well :)
Wow. Are you serious?
Classic godoy 5 (out of 5 take)
I feel like Leo would do well as a caster if he decides to step away from the sticks. He could be like Pat Somerall: a calm, collected, and knowledgeable person to guide watchers through a game
It really warmed my heart when Leo said he wouldnt retuire for a while, always love seeing him compete!
Sick squad and super enjoyable episode, LG has really put together what feels like how one person said last time the Avengers of smash.
Weekly shoutout to Maister for being a very good host!
MKleo should stop censoring comments and talk face to face with the people that experienced the garbage from this community firsthand instead of giving people a false impression.
I wouldn't take my kids here, neither would you.
I love all the guests they've been having on this GOATed podcast. I look forward to every upload on Fridays! :)
WITHIN 30 SECONDS OF THE VID IS CONEY AND HIS DAMN WARIO WARE TAKE
But like wario ware with stage hazards would go crazy in competitive
@@Glider400 skyjay would win everything😂 I’m all for it it’d be fun
This is such an amazing podcast lineup, id love more of this group
This podcast could be 5 hours long and id listen to the whole thing uninterrupted
EE comparing Steve to Michael Jordan is insane. MJ didn’t redefine the rules of the game to accommodate him. He just worked harder than everyone in the room. Pressing 3 buttons and doing 60% then having your opponent at kill percent is unfair. If MJ dribbled 4 times and could score from anywhere regardless of distance or coverage that’d be a more fair comparison. He’s more like Joker if anything. He has all the tools he needs to win but you HAVE to grind to make it anywhere. Only 4 high level Steve’s cuz he’s just not fun to play.
The point
Your head
@@rizvan1632pretty sure you missed his point actually.
@@Josh_ua the point is you don’t ban Michael Jordan (ie the best player acola) I get it. But Michael Jordan DIDNT REDIFINE THE RULES OF THE GAME AND FORCE EVERYONE TO ADAPT. It’s not like he himself was a broken character, he out worked everyone on the court despite not having their physical attributes. This is not the case with Steve, he works far less hard and gets much more reward. Hence why I drew the “dribble 4 times and could score from anywhere comparison.” Though something tells me you don’t play sports so it might be lost on you. The comparison he drew is not analogous.
@@tendo_no_entiendo ... mj literally forced the NBA to adjust to him. Like there is no debate that he forced the NBA to step up their games. Which is what was said. Like if you go back to when MJ was active people called for him to be banned or to make changes to hamper him. And what actually happened? The NBA got more grinders. People learned they had to work harder to make up for what they lack.
As someone that follows a lot of traditional fighting games alongside Smash, its interesting hearing some of the things that come up here regarding players and how they are seen by communities. When Coney mentioned that he always saw Leo as super stone faced even though he said he got nervous before a big match, that was huge Daigo 'The Beast' Umehara vibes, the GOAT of Street Fighter. The more communities are different, the more they have in common I suppose.
Gotta love another episode of Goat Talks with two of the Goats of Commentary
Maister looks really good in that "drip".
Maister Kennedy
Another great episode, really dig the vibe!
Great episode. I really enjoyed the conversational tone here
2:46
Can we say whatever we want on here?
"Yea"
*bleeps it anyway* 😂😂😂
I mean they let him **say** it.
The bleep is why they can say whatever they want to
As someone who has been playing Smash since Brawl, watched countless tournaments, and supported several creators over the years, but couldn’t go to tournaments because I was too young, and can’t go to tournaments now because I’m in college and need to save money, getting called “not part of the community” is disheartening to say the least.
Is there no locals close enough to you, or is it that there are and it's an entry fee thing
There's a difference between "having the intent to compete in person but cannot due to circumstances" and "refusing to compete in person at all".
I think what he said wasn't specific enough to be true. What I think he should have said was "the tournament community is it's own group in the entire smash fanbase community." Which is true in any game that has competitions. But the way he says it sounded like he was saying "your not a real smash player if you don't play in tournaments". Tbf I don't think that's what he meant, but it's what he inferred.
Yeah, I think he said it in a bad way too. I watch most tournaments, a lot of creators, sometimes I comment and I play the game online. Never competed or intend to do it, I don't know about any locals in my city I'm probably not nearly good enough to go to them, plus I have a 9 to 5 job, you know. I'm sure people like me are the vast majority of players and to be completely honest, our opinions shouldn't really be as important as those of competitors and TOs. But as he said, they need us because we're the ones doing the numbers on yt and twitch.
@rafaelbordoni516 Same here, I consider myself decent, but nowhere near tournament winning good. And it's fair to say that we are fans relative to competitors, and that is two separate communities. But they are equally important parts of the entire smash community.
Commentator + pro player commentary videos are soooo good
this channel is sucha gift, thank you luminiosty
you can tell by the steam pouring out of Coneys ears how much he hates Leo and Mister
Disagree with the Steve argument of "if hes so good why dont more people play it" cause you will never win that argument since the same people will be like "Why are you playing the character if you dont like it" ? Its an endless cycle of never really proving the point because the people who wants to take the argument just chucks it in an infinite loop. The premise of the argument makes it impossible to begin with.
The only thing I agree with Coney about is how stupid Bayo Smash 4 was!
I generally hate the argument "Well why don't you play it?".
If my entire experience playing a videogame needs to boil down to "Just abuse this character yourself!", I don't want to play that videogame anymore - and subsequently, I don't want to watch- or engage with competitive play if that character gets to terrorize others without restraint.
People whined about wobbling in Melee. Why are characters like Steve exempt from a clear ruling that states "You can't exploit this or you're disqualified"?
Just play whoever you like, if you enjoy minecraft and like playing Steve then play Steve. If you like the Sonic games and you like playing Sonic, then play sonic. If you don’t enjoy a character, play someone else, always have fun when playing any game.
snake c4 being hard to track is almost entirely due to this game's camera and lighting imo, it always obscures it in ways that make it very easy to leave the mental stack
The competitive scene was much smaller during the brawl days. Therefore, we can't really know how broken Metaknight was due to the limited pool of players.
But during the Smash 4 days we had a big enough national and international pool to know that Bayonette even post patch was broken.
My favorite smash relationship dynami is EE and Tweek
Ikr, Ee is a jokester and tweek is more of a serious guy that it makes their dynamic funny to watch
Why
“Look at this…monkey”
One of my favorite podcast moments ever
Really enjoyed this talk!
Bro EE is spitting. I grinded DDD vs mk for years man. It was not always fun but the complaints are too much.
Coney knows more than anyone, only ddd to ever take games off m2k and never forget it!
@@kestrelynn ah, the early brawl days before Xanadu!
I always forget that the old commentators were cracked at their games @@kestrelynn
The guests should stay! The perfect podcast with these 4.
Its great when people that aren't grinding complain that other people aren't grinding
As a spectator and long time tournament goer I absolutely think Steve should be banned but appreciate EE’s perspective
I’m pretty sure the only reason why banning Steve or not is a debate because people in ultimate still have some self respect and don’t want to use Steve … so that’s why there’s only 2 top Steves
Well atm Dabuz is trying to make it work to so far not great success
But we’ll see if he can pull it off
Doubt
No digas mamadas Maryjane
MiYa, soon to be Dabuz, soon to be Peanut, and soon to be Bassmage all have Steve secondaries. It’s becoming more popular by the second because even though everyone has figured out the Kazuya matchup and his ban is never talked about anymore, Steve still is way too dominant.
@AbstractVen0m Dabuz can't even top 8 coinbox with his Steve and Steve is even better online.
GOATed players and GOATed commentators. great cast
2:33 THANK YOU EE. ALL THEY DO IS COMPLAIN!!!!! People back then complained about these characters and joined by picking up these broken characters, instead of learning and adapting to be better.
100% agree with EE about Steve. You can find him boring all you want but Steve’s are not taking over tournaments so banning him is stupid. Best character in the game sure but we regularly see top players beat Steve. You didn’t really see that with Bayo or MK
Esam leo samsora also didn't bayos struggle versus shiek
Deserves pin
@@aymenjbailiEsam only says ban him with pmlg
2: samsora only goes to locals
EE stance has changed on Steve after lmbm he wants that character gone lol. On lights out
@@soulchain6017 I haven’t seen the lights out podcast so I’m only going based off of this video. But either way I agree with what he said in this specific video
My big thing with Steve it I think with the history a lot of people looking back wanted to kinda kill the issue before it started? Idk how I feel about Steve because I don’t see him enough at locals.
I couldve watched this for 12 more hours
this was filmed before lmbm even happened hahaha EE changed his steve opinions right after
14:18 I'd like to see Maiser's Melee G&W
17:10 blueprint for change
35:20 best moment
39:54 Mew2King talk
On snake i think the C4 itself is actually wedged lower into the ground than it was in Brawl
I saw the thumbnail and video title, and my first thought was “dang, Leo looks a little different from what I remember.”
If you ask me smash ultimate is gonna be one of those games that stays around for a long time. And hey if we get a deluxe edition we get to hear more conversation like this.
Do you think a deluxe version would be only for switch 2? What would you like to see from it? I naively never considered a deluxe version a possibility, but I'm curious of your knowledge🤔
@@adm69420 Honestly I'd like to see it for both the switch two and the original but who knows what will happen. It's Nintendo's call after all. What I'd want to see personally is some more characters that are ether highly requested or must haves. Such as a DMC (devil may cry) rep, Touhou rep, Guilty gear rep, and even a new kirby rep. My guess is for a deluxe edition you'd get like a base of like 6 new fighters and some balance changes and another wave of dlc due to how much money it will make alone.
There was just a tournament with steve unbanned and not one made it to top 8. The finals was two Sonic mains, and was won by Sonix the player. It was a miserable match to watch and it was the finals. The commentators actively didnt care about the match. Sonic is worse than Steve. I hate watching sonic play
good episode
censoring "pussycat" made me laugh and i feel like it wasn't intentional lmao (35:08)
49:53 call him "es cacayjay" lmao what 😭😭😭
Talking about fan vs being in the community, would you be part of the community if you don't look for top players but enjoy playing and being involved in the game at a local level?
maister looking clean
Ive noticed the difference in between Leo and Tweeks attitude on Sephiroth. I kinda want a video discussing why they both feel the way they do
Edit: typos
Good shit guys
Ironically enough Bayonetta has been seen on Matchbox at the MID level
Maisters outfit is definitely S-A tier
Instead of going after the character Steve, I've seen people commenting on their dislike for Acola himself like what happened to hate the character not the player thing?
The player chooses the character so
@@tomrod1949doesn't really give you free reign to bulky someone on a personal level. Acola probably just made the smart decision of playing the best character, conflating one choice to being a shitty person is insane cope and incredibly childish. Grown adults going after people like kids.
@@tomrod1949 He chose him back when people didn't know yet how broken Steve was. He didn't choose to play him because he's strong, he chose him because he liked his playstyle.
@@legrandliseurtri7495 ?? you know that you can figure things out without people telling you right
@@legrandliseurtri7495 I thought he chose him just because he's... You know, Steve... Mr. Minecraft?
Online fans not being part of the smash community makes the predators a larger percent of the community. 💀
Almost like a children's party game isn't the best thing to put at the center of a 'community.'
If maister only knew how many people want that shirt.
EE should just not talk. IMO let's add a character that doesn't die and instead of banning him we should grind harder... ITS A GAME ITS MEANT TO BE FAIR NOT DOABLE YOU DABBLER
5:34 THANK YOU exactly EE, but 7:00 keep in mind Ice climbers could do the same, and both has terrible neutral so yeah. But nonetheless I like this video.
EE with the Yu Yu reference 🤌
I'm kind of with Maister. Played G&W since Melee and if he's like Bottom 2. In the next game. I would still play him. As a competitor maybe not (which thankfully I'm not), but as a person who just plays Smash and enjoys it, yeah.
Also I do love playing Wario too, so maybe that Wario and G&W combo is true..... and the reason why is probs because we love wack looking characters and movesets.
This is how I am with Zelda. She's got a very interesting moveset that *everyone* has said is really close to being good in each game on paper. Its why I am against all the videos and posts on social media saying she needs a more faithful rework; her Smash identity was handled way better than some characters from her time and I don't want that taken away from her just to make more Zelda references.
In a lot of ways, I think giving characters too much surface level homages in their movesets are what has primarily contributed to the power-creep of Ultimate, and I want my favorite Smash character as far away from that phenomenon as possible.
I play Game and Watch because he’s unique, I mostly play Melee and I still play game and watch even though he’s comfortably shit. You should play the character you enjoy, don’t focus on tier lists unless you plan to compete, because I can guarantee that 0 people play kirby competitively in Melee (same witb bowser)
So like when does lui$ joins the podcast I want to him talk about his spargo encounters, almost beating tweek and choking against sonix..
High rez, him winning a $10.000 prize beating, apollkage..
Ahh yes
The two ppl on the thumbnail
Coney and MKLeo…
No doubt about it
For me, the red lights on ps2 make it harder to pick out c4.
Coney's shoes are fire
Lmao "I've located the target"
11:25 hit it right on the head. If you look enough you'll see players that pilot better than top players with the same main. You gotta think if the top players actually got their piloting closer to 100% mastery this wouldn't be as big an issue. You can develop better counter play when you have better control of your character. You can also be more reactive and I'm pretty sure it increases hit potency.
Add to all the Top Steves falling off but Acola, one has to think he might be the only top Steve with Yonni's level of control or better, and even more understanding of fundies.
I say all that to say the top competitors are definitely lazy and need better control of there main. I'd say Umeki and MuteAce are examples of players with great piloting. Spargo as well. Shinymark shows Esam piloting isnt near 100%.
you have no idea what youre talking about lol
@@carloss7655dude I have actual examples so your going to have to do better than that. Like I said it's obvious many competitors aren't the best pilots. Being good at fundies doesn't mean you fully mastered piloting your character. T and Prand Grix is a perfect example. And Shiny is an example of how far Esam probably could have gone and how oppressive he could have been had he fully mastered Pikachu. Prove that wrong then maybe I can consider that bs claim.
@@s3eriousbl9ck26 Esam has won majors. Shinymark hasn't, and his best placements are not that amazing. He's doing better than Esam right now, but he hasn't surpassed his legacy.
@@s3eriousbl9ck26 I suppose a clearer example is looking at Zomba. He's the top ranked ROB but wasn't known for the degenerate ROB cheese tactics like Anathema. But when he started implementing those tactics, his gameplay leveled up significantly.
I can't comment on whether X player is "lazy" but I think we can all agree there's room for improvement. However, from observation, it appears fundamentals and character specific tool mastery are two separate skills; hence why you see a lot of top players who score the rankings but don't have playstyles that are as flashy and masterful as other character specialists who mastered and devised their own unique playstyles that push their character traits to the limit.
@@s3eriousbl9ck26 what you mean by great "piloting" is doing the crazy advanced stuff that some characters have right? but then your examples don't make any sense. ESAM has a much greater mastery of the advanced techniques of his character than shinymark does. What shinymark has that ESAM doesn't is a much better understanding of the game (fundamentals). your other examples of great "pilots" (muteace and umeki) are actually not great at the very advanced paisy stuff. muteace doesn't utilize turnip combos as much as he could because again, he has better fundamentals than all the other peach players who live their life in the lab. the reality is that what you call "piloting" just isnt that important in comparison to the fundamentals. relying on that fact doesnt make top players lazy. you also mentioned acola who on his own invalidates your whole "piloting" argument because acola is probably the least technical steve but yet he is the best. that's because of his FUNDAMENTALS.
If you wanted to make this argument better, you probably should've mentioned kurama. I think he fits what you're trying to say pretty well
I want EE to be my coach he’s really knows how to brighten people spirit ✨
Me who plays Steve just because its my favorite character in smash :,)
Tbh with Steve it’s just one of those characters that is just annoying to go against always running away from you and basically the entire time you’re just playing to catch up with him avoid minecart and back air. That’s it
Well if the player is good enough they know their uptilt combos, oos footstool anvil, ledgetrap setupts and many more agressive options. I do believe its beatable but your simplifying it a bit too much haha
@@LARojas both are right. Once you finally get around the stage / ledge blocks and avoid all his traps, you then have to deal with TOD combos or take a guaranteed 60 percent and end up right back at square one
Thank you
Really impressed that the mexican comunity "hates" Coney, i'm mexican and been following him for a while, with either his reactions, stories or just random videos doing challenges and whatnot haha. Also, loved how he said the "chinga tu madre" mixed with "pinche". Btw, yeah, as some people already said, online people are not the same in person, so i believe he will be fine and welcome if he ever comes down here to Mexico.
"If 'if's' and 'nuts' were candy and butts, we'd all have something to eat"- EE
I get Coney is jaded from the constant barrage of online heckling, but that's an extremely privileged statement to make that online spectators are not a part of the community. I get you were involved in the competitive community from long before the days of twitch streaming but don't take online spectators for granted. You're profiting off of them as they watch your videos and tune into the streams from which you can sell merchandise or ask for donations (or sell votes in the case of Summit and Watch the Throne) to further support your platform. Would Luminosity be making all these videos had it not been for said "fans"?
And I say this as someone involved in other communities outside of gaming where the online aspect is a critical component in sharing candid discourse and helping people to understand what the community is setting out to accomplish. And this leads to building a stepping stone to inspire others to be more proactive in finding opportunities in physical form or creating new projects remotely within the community.
What Coney should be advocating for is to have online spectators transition from merely spectating to figuring out how they can productively get more involved in the community. It goes a long way in sustaining the life of the community and presenting new opportunities for community can capitalize on.
Don't just be stagnant at level 1. Level up and get involved!
Just to be clear it's not about taking fans or spectators for granted, they're incredibly valuable and ultimately the reason we can even do any of this, and what we strive to gain. BUT I still think there's a distinction between the community itself and the fanbase--maybe its just semantics and I'm differentiating the Smash competitive community specifically and not the Smash community as a whole, but I still think there's a pretty clear divide between actual real competitors and online fans.
That said, I think even just going to one tournament makes you a part of that community, because you've experienced it yourself beyond just spectating. And I totally agree that the ultimate goal should be to get involved if they're interested, no doubt there.
@@CONEYZZ Maybe you are differentiating the two - otherwise, why and how could you get fans if they aren't part of the Smash community? There's a difference between competitors and fans, but if that makes them not part of the Smash community...I thought it was a love of competitive smash that made us even know your name.
Or is this podcast for the community only?
@@CONEYZZ Oh, I understand there's a MASSIVE distinction between competing and simply spectating; or more abstractly speaking active contributing versus consumption. I can give two long winded examples.
First I'll admit; GUILTY. AS. CHARGED. I'm exactly that kind of fan. I went to my local a couple times (no tournaments at those times), held my own, had multiple people ask me to come to X coming up tournament. When the time came around, where was I? Tending to frostbites on my toes at home. Meanwhile, the guys at my scene saved up for months (they're employed in white collar jobs to say the least) to take a flight to go out to a tournament. Sure, they didn't take the tourney (or do all that well compared to the pros) but it puts things into perspective for discussions like Steve legality where there is consideration of mid and low level players who have a real stake via financial and massive time investments to compete only to get CART'D. Contrast this to a lot of spectators (myself included) who think "you go to a competition to play to win. Play to win".
Now on the flipside, I understand your sentiment towards the fanbase as someone in the Web3 community and we have the competitor-fans analogue with developers/educators and investors (especially nontechnical). I've transitioned from being merely a outsider investor ("If I buy this, I'll be rich!) to a developer and even attended a major conference. Let me tell you, it completely changed my perspective. Using the development tools to build out applications myself, you realize how powerful the tech is yet how painfully fragile the systems you design can be.
Typical startup conventions like "Fail fast and innovate!" will only cause destroyed reputations and total user bankruptcy. Going to the conference, I was struck small the community is; where investors took things FOR GRANTED and expect developers smarter than them to do it. Yeah... Eventually? Maybe? But you could jump in and contribute it yourself and make it a reality way faster. And even worse, there's a demand to see progress NOW when it takes time to develop and test; so you know if these guys had any modicum of administrative power, they'd run their companies into the ground due to impatience.
That being said; their presence and investment helps validate what developers are working to accomplish and you have to start somewhere in the community. Same can be said for Smash Bros with competitors and fans.
The distinction between them though is an extremely important topic you brought. But perception matters; you have to be diplomatic about this. One of lead Web3 developers Sergey Nazarov called out the same equivalent people in a recent talk on New Years but he did it eloquently; he demonstrated his gratefulness but he said the community should (paraphrasing here) "figure out how to productively contribute". Basically calling out the investors sitting on their butts to get to work.
I will say I am inspired by your video regarding the stagelist and want to work with my local scene to experiment with new stagelists, hazards on or off, or rules for a "more balanced meta" (which also requires I get off my butt and get to work as a competitor!) so I can see a real opportunity for Luminosity to create content on tournament organization and perhaps sell tools and merchandise to help foster local scenes (imagine powered by Luminosity little leagues?) that also contribute new ideas to create a new "competitive game system" within the game were given. So I will reiterate that this, the distinction between competitors and simply fans/spectators and the problems that arise, is something worth exploring.
~~TL;DR~~
- I agree with Coney that there is a very important distinction that must be made between just spectating and actually attending tournaments
- I argue he should be diplomatic on how he talks about this
- There's a massive opportunity for Luminosity especially with a supposed SSB6/7 coming to address this distinction and create a pipeline to transition spectators to competitors.
They didn't ban mj but they changed multiple rules for wilt
I love EE but I hate his argument. Because it’s the same one we always see when banning comes up for smash. “We didn’t ban in the smash 4 or brawl why do it now?” Well we also used to shit in the woods and roam the lands for wild game. Does that mean that is the optimal way a human should live? No. Just because something was doesn’t mean it should be. The question EE should be asking is: would smash 4 be better if bayonetta had been banned? If your answer is yes then you should want Steve banned. Even if he isn’t worse or as egregious he is generating that same controversy. This time let’s build some freaking toilets.
Haven't watched Lights Out but apparently he changed his mind since LMBM
@@tomrejor4842 interesting. I wonder if it had to do with the shear success of LMBM. Look at the comparison for views between LMBM finals and kirabibi finals it’s actually crazy. Last I checked LMBM had 70 thousand views and Kiribibi was like 2000. Why you may ask? Because kiribibi finals was GW and Steve while LMBM was Diddy and Sonic, and was only one set
The only reason Umebura even had the views it got was because everyone wanted to see how Gluto and Void would match up against JP. The world also got to see a new shiny Luigi main. Without that, they would have had far less interest otherwise.
LMBM had the same players we’ve seen time and time again with top 8 not being a bug surprise but it KILLED it in viewership without Steve. WTT showed that no one wants to watch more of Steve stealing BS stocks.
@@NotHere-un5pf Japan has a pretty good viewership I wouldn't underestimate though.
The world probably watched it less you're right but that's pretty much been the case for all Japanese tournament, this isn't new, it was the case before Steve and after Steve, the world just focused on stuff where theh speak English in general.
Japan certainly won't change their rule since as long as there are no invaders there is no extra viewership
That’s not the better question as it makes you think that if X character really “killed the game”
Bayonetta can say she killed the game because she’s absurdly broken and that your best players either main or secondary her.
It’s a necessity to pick her up at that point. While Steve can definitely have some “random players” get a Top 8 at a major, you have to invest time and solo main the character.
Only player who can have Steve as a competent secondary is Miya and he overall doesn’t even need him anyways.
Steve doesn’t litter himself in the Top 8s as easily so any argument on him being so OP would just be thrown out the window
I can agree on viewership and more audience reception, but trying to imply that Steve is anywhere comparable to “killing the game” as Bayonetta or Meta Knight is LAUGHABLE.
I hear pro Warioware talk, I like.
6:55 coney talking about smash4 bayo being able to kill you at zero as a reason for banning, meanwhile Steve and Kazuya do that consistently
Steve doesn't kill at zero without a gimp or spike. That's different.
@@uberculex He has a ton of ToD combos with NIL, they just don't get shown off a lot because he doesn't need them. Just look at what Yonni was doing years ago.
EE on steve is a big reason why i stopped caring about smash they dont grind and all they do is complain and i hate when people started send death threats to onin is where i couldn't stand the community anymore
Coney @ 7:02 "being able to kill someone at zero percent is the craziest thing in any smash game" lmao Coney wouldn't survive two seconds as a melee player, there's like ten characters that can do that 😂
Now imagine if only one character could do that in Melee.
This community is 100% leaning towards the toxic side. Any character I play from high mid tier and above got me hate in some form or another. As a competitor, this gets increasingly frustrating. It's annoying enough to find people who are willing to play friendlies. Of course when I do, 70% of the players I play against complain about my mains and pockets.
I choose Marth or Corrin: "omg your range is so broken!"
I choose Terry or Mii Brawler: "Broken combos and too much damage output!"
I choose freaking Mii Gunner as a rushdown and rarely use Charge Shot or Fire Pillar: "OMG that Nair is so broken!"
I even made some players angry enough to rant about how trash Ultimate is as a whole... with Robin.
I know the game is flawed, but I like it anyway. Having my 3 years of dedication to Ultimate absolutely discredited because I chose to play Toon Link for a few games is absolutely ridiculous. Someone said that they would stop playing with me if I even dared played one game with Aegis, a character I almost never use (and they were absolutely serious about it).
Like... why?
I think what you describe their is mostly people not being able to cope with defeat, which is a common issue in a lot of games, like team games are great at that because you can cope by blaming it on the people on your team, especially if you solo queue, "it wasn't me, it was the random"
In this case where you have no one else but yourself to blame, it's way easier to cope by blaming the character the other is playing rather than blaming your own play. It's just the easy target to get an out.
I do catch myself doing it when playing sometimes, as someone who is pretty noob side, especially online. And generally it's not because the option is particularly broken just that I don't know how to properly play around it, and if I try and fail to play around it, my brain will definitely shoot up the thought "that option is stupid" before it'll push me to do actual work about that option and how in most cases it's probably not that hard to face.
You again?
I find people who cry about any character in smash hilarious and it makes me think they are not good at the game😂
Skill issue
What you’re describing is not toxicity.
Now correct me if I'm wrong, but that doesn't look like MKLeo in the thumbnail.
Yes, it’s exceedingly toxic. Anyone who somehow can’t see it hasn’t been here long enough.
If you play any of the “lame” or “high tier” characters (which makes up roughly a third of the entire roster) you will always be met with hate from complete strangers, usually in the form of them discrediting your skill or success because you’re assumedly “carried” by your character and thus don’t deserve respect as a competitor or as a person.
I absolutely loath this community for treating individual people like complete garbage just because they’re not a “low tier hero.”
I mean, who wants to purposely handicap themselves when they’re competing?! Answer: only the people who genuinely like the challenge playing low tier characters because they’ve accepted they’re never going to become a top 5 competitor in the world.
I really hate how quickly people in the smash community are to throw out terms like “broken” or “carried” just because they don’t like the fact that the game isn’t 100% fair and some characters are better than others.
News flash, smash community: …LIFE ISN’T FAIR!
Or maybe all the high tiers are campy boring characters and people want to be fun in the game?
I mean look at sky jay, do you actually think he’s not good enough to be a top player
@@judithforever9494 No, I really don’t. If he was, he would already be a top player, but he’s not. Sky Jay chose to master a lower tier character, so unless every one of those S & A tier characters get banned, or he chooses to learn a high tier as a secondary, he’ll most likely never become a top 5 player in the world.
That’s just how it goes. Like I was saying, life isn’t fair, and it’s never going to be fair, so I suggest all the cry babies in the smash community grow a backbone and accept that, because no amount of complaining will *ever* stop our circumstances from being unfair.
So for your sake, I hope you’re not a cry baby who whines about video games being unfair all day because that’s frankly pathetic behavior; lowest of the low.
@@dusk173 he has a top 5 and a top 2 major placements with one of the worst characters. He is at least a top 30-20 player with the character. If he played someone like kazuya or terry( two higher tier characters not too unsimilar to incin) he would probably be a top 10 player with his skill level
@@dusk173 you didn’t say anything about his skill level or his placements. You just said he wouldn’t be and then didn’t explain anything. If you are a person who is this bad at using evidence to make a point I feel sorry for you for your sake
coney called us hoek....
cool video
Ironic that these 4 are "GOAT"s
They are just who are left over
@10:45 Desmona?
its kinda crazy that ee basically said that everyone could beat steve if they just pick up cloud and study the matchup. Not everyone can just play like Sparg0. There is a reason that there is only a few high level clouds even though hes highly popular and arguably top 10.
that’s what we call a skill issue
Cloud is MID
Yeah Acola beat Kola Cloud a few years ago. And he beat Kaninabe Cloud very recently. Clearly you can't just pocket Cloud and expect to beat Acola with him(might still be a good idea against other Steve players).
@@moisesflores5405definitely cap
I think the main point of what he was saying is that if Steve is such an issue for you, then learn a character that has a better time against him. Players will play a character that has a worse time against Steve and then surprised pikachu face when they have a bad time against him.
Idk about fans not being apart of the community, I mean they’re the ones providing viewership to every event. Without them, there isn’t any community at all
I mean, sure but at the same time, the randoms on Twitter just yapping about some random shit they don't like probably aren't involved in the community like that. So I can see where the argument is coming from.
@@marlinmurrell620 I get that part but like, they’re trolls and trolls are still in the community whether or not you like them or care about them. I don’t think someones opinions or statements lacking validity or relevance just means they’re not still in whatever community
The fact that you think that's true suggests that you aren't part of the community. The smash community would exist with 0 viewers. Viewership might help the community but isn't necessarily part of it
@@rizvan1632 if there weren’t viewers then what would the community be? There wouldn’t be any truly competitive players because there would not be money that they could make, so no motivation or incentive. There’d be no competitors, no viewers, no commentators, no tos, there’d only be a casual audience which ee and coney already said aren’t part of the community. So if there aren’t any viewers then there can’t be a community, which from my point of view makes viewers apart of the community.
@@rizvan1632lol y'all really want the community to be some tiny elusive club! Why even bother watching, or even broadcasting if you don't need viewers?
Steve shouldn’t be banned. No one wants to grind anymore smh 🤦🏽♂️ don’t hate the player hate the game! Miya, spargo, Sonix, mute etc etc have beat acola. If they banning Steve ban all the meta.. cloud, kazuya, mypy! U see a million of these out there for a reason.
Except you don’t have to grind against anyone else in the game other than probably Min Min and Kazuya. It isn’t nearly as hard to figure out adaptive game plans against others in the cast. Whereas Steve you’re spending an insane amount of time practicing and working way harder in game or you’re picking up 1 of maybe 3 characters who can make the match up rough for Steve. While the rest of the cast suffers.
@NotHere-un5pf"You don't have to grind against anyone else in the game" You literally cannot make this claim confidently. People grind out their bad matchup or matchups against strong characters all the time.
Didn't skyJ or what ever his name is, didn't he get like 5th place on Nickelodeon allstars 2, no essy task lol
I only watch smash anymore cause of Leo once he's out I'm out. I'm pretty sure others feel the same
I don't really mind playing against Steve. I prefer to fight literally anyone else but if my opponent selects that character, I'll do my best to fight against him. If people want him banned, I'm cool with that. If he's not, I'm not losing sleep over it.
When is Leo coming back from Hawaii?
Yall really changed the title huh
The last Evo of Smash 4 was delisted from their channel as bad as it was
need someone in my life to look at me like ee looks at coney 😂
The commentators were on point on the Steve situation. This is all an agenda to try to put Steve as the most broken character any Smash game has ever had, when in reality Bayo and Meta Knight were much much worse. Steve is just a very strong character, but only like 2 people are top level with him.
Look at Sonix, he is making Sonic look unbeatable and he is always topping in tournaments. Does anyone think Sonic is god tier? No, just an "annoying character". Bias is stupid.
Facts. I'm thoroughly convinced that the people saying Steve is the most broken thing ever weren't even around for Brawl/4
Facts
sora is NOT bad. he is fantastic. sora is my main. his style works so well. great recovery with great floaty combos
I honestly don't think we'll get a new Smash for the Switch 2 (or at least not soon). It will just be backwards compatible and Nintendo will keep selling Ultimate. At most we'll get an update so that it can take advantage of it's new power and/or features.
If you'd allow me to stand on my FGC soapbox, it comes back to netcode and tools. Smash (ultimate) just isn't designed for competition. The delay based netcode is functionally unplayable. The game is actively trying to make you worse. Bad players can't tell how bad they are and they don't have the resources to get better.
Not to mention the lack of Accountability from low to mid level players. They are unwilling and unable to adapt, to be blunt there is a widespread scrub mentality. I can't blame them so much smash skews young but, that being the case community figures need to lead by example.
The most charismatic group on LG
Bro EE TK and Coney are the funniest niggas alive