Fixing the Tiger Cub Frame I broke // Paul Brodie's Shop
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- Опубліковано 15 вер 2024
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#tigercub #framefix #triumph #fussyframebuilder
Thats probably way better aligned than they came from the factory😁
Knowing how to fix your mistakes is quite possibly the greatest skill anyone can have. Kudos to you Paul.
Thank you.
Always a pleasure to watch a true professional, especially one who not only admits his mistakes, but also corrects them. Thank you for sharing !
Thank you.
You have too much faith in Triumphs manufacturing tolerances... 🤣
Very nice repair!!!
Thank you Sid.
That frame is probably straighter now than most motorcycle frames of that age, Great job!
Thank you Gordon.
Holy crap, what an awesome (and timely) video Paul. I have just finished a repair on the swingarm of one of our 4-wheelers, using very similar techniques. Watching you do yours gives me confidence that what I tried doing was the right procedure. Good grief, what an education that was, trying to learn what was bent on that quad. It was an education just trying to figure out HOW to find out what was bent, and stumble through different measurement techniques (trials and errors). After I figured out how to determine it was the swingarm, and not the frame, I unfortunately spent the money to order a new one, at the same time I was learning I could repair the old one, by tying it down on my milling machine table, and tweaking it back into shape with pressure. And heat. So now I have 2 good swingarms for it. Yay me. I always look forward to your videos.
Thank you. Very interesting reading your learning experience. And now you have 2 good swingarms!
Always a pleasure hanging out in your shop Paul.
Jim, thanks for hanging out!
Hey Paul & Mitch, another great show! You've, quite possibly, made that old Tiger Cub frame straighter than it was before the "Terrible Mistake"! You really finessed that splice of the good seat tube fittings!!! Love it!
Thank you Tom.
Yeah, that was more difficult than it first looked but as usual Paul Brodie wasn't phased. oh no! Chapeau to you Paul, as we say in a rather wet France.
Thank you.
Mr. Brodie, I like your style and your content. Always well done. Thank you for being you!
Thank you Michael. Very nice compliment :)
Paul, Mitch congrats with 2 year birthday) KEEP ON!) THANKS!
Thank you very much!
that´s my man, old school ! Just how it is!
Thank you.
Love the car jack hand rest. Brilliant.
A friend gave that to me years ago and it has been used a LOT!
Showing some of that Allen Millyard style. Nice. And nice catch.
Allen Millyard does have his own style.
@@paulbrodie And a fine Hand with a hack saw.
Wednesdays and Saturdays.: kick back and relax watching the Mitch and Paul show. Nice Job repairing your "mistake" Mr. Brodie.
Thank you Sarkis.
Ya Sarkis it is a wonderful life.
I used to work for a motorcycle frame manufacturing company here in Red Deer Alberta and although the triumph is lighter we would plug weld the slugs on repairs like that.
I think the term is rosette welds. Filling the hole in the tube to connect the slug.
Hi Paul,
I love your channel, I look forward to each of your new episodes.
I have also been going back over some of your old videos, that I had missed, before I found your channel.
I was looking at one you made on TIG welding. In that video, you straightened MIG wire, in order to use it for TIG. I also noticed in today's video that you had some curved wire ready for using in your welds, in the background. I thought I might share a tip I recently saw from Dusty at Pacific Arc TIG Welding. I've tried it and it works amazingly well.
Basically after you have cut a length of MIG wire to the desired length, clamp one end in your vice and put the other end in your drill. Pull it tight and run the drill for a bit. Dusty says to run it until the wire breaks, but I have found you can stop a little before the wire breaks. You finish with a very straight and stiff piece of welding wire.
Please try it and let us know what you think.
Thanks John. If my drill chuck will hold an .035" wire I will try. I'm not sure it will. I've been thinking about making a set of rollers so it's straight as it comes off the spool. Maybe that's an episode.
@@paulbrodie Using the drill is such a quick idea, it gets the wire really straight and seems to add stiffness as well. Probably spoils your idea for a an episode. If you can't hold 0.035" in your chuck, double the wire up, or use a small collet. You will be amazed how well this idea works.
Very instructive. Thank you. Les in UK
Thank you Les :)
I ❤️ Paul Brodie (and Mitch )! My Sunday mornings have never been more enjoyable than watching you fix things.. Genius. 🤘🤘🤘🤓
James, thanks for watching and commenting.
Brilliant, thank you...a drill sharpening video would be great & much appreciated Paul
Noted! We are planning a sharpening video.
Wonderful skill. It's a joy watching you work. Many thanks.
Thanks again Peter...
In the aviation world we would also use a doubler tube, however would also do rosette welds (drill a hole on the outer tube and fill with a weld to the inner) on either side of the seam. Does make it a very strong joint.
I'm sure your method would be more than acceptable in this instance!
Yes, others have also mentioned rosette welds. I have done that previously. Thanks for commenting.
Catching up on your back catalogue Paul. Awesome stuff, as expected!
Best wishes, Dean.
precision repairs on an imperfect frame
Not sure if there really is such a thing as a "perfect" frame. Thanks for watching.
You're a great teacher, Thank you. Blessings 🙏
Salvador, thank you very much.
Paul, I’ve always Tig welded frame repairs like this the same way you did, but also added a plug weld on each side of the joint on opposite sides. This ensures the sleeve doesn’t move.
Yes, that will work. These sleeves won't move because I fusion welded one side onto the tube.
@@vtcyclist If I was being really fussy I would have put internal tapers on each end of the internal lugs. But Mitch and I only have so much time to film each episode.
Good work Mr Brodie a man with great skills
Much appreciated, thanks Jan.
I’d agree that the frame is probably now aligned better than new. The back wheel of my BSA C15 always leaned over in the frame by 3 or 4 degrees. It annoyed the hell out of me. The bike had never been dropped, to best of my knowledge so I’m sure that’s how it came from the factory. This is one of my favourite episodes that you’ve done because this is something beyond my level of expertise. Thank you!
Yes, I would say Triumph didn't put a lot of effort into alignment. Thanks for watching and commenting.
Thank you very much Paul & Mitch, for another terrific episode. Really enjoy your channel. Best wishes
Thank you!
Nice job Paul. I've repaired several ATV chassis in much the same manner over the years and have had great results as well.
Another great video.
Mike
Thank you Mike!
Fantastic! So interesting to watch you problem-solve. 😊
Thank you Hans.
Thanks, I enjoyed watching and learning.
Glad you enjoyed it.
Hello from British Columbia Canada
Lower rainland 🇨🇦👍👋♥️🧜♀️☔
Sunshine today!
I love thinking about problems like this. Removing the new bracket from the tube could have been done in the lathe with a boring bar. I think that would be a very clean way to get it apart without all the downsides of heat you described.
Of course that wouldn't have been helpful if you still have to get the other brackets out of the original frame. So with that in mind your approach sure seems like the absolute easiest way to get the desired end result.
If I removed the bracket from the tube in a lathe with a boring bar, then I would have had to make a frame jig to align the bracket. Way too much work! Thanks for watching.
your shop is a smart place, very inspiring 😀
Thank you Franc.
Like the yellow 996 !.
This is an interesting video. It was nice to see how to check alignment. I've always wondered about post-welding tweaks though, be it a bicycle, motorcycle, car, whatever. When these vehicles go down the road after they are finished, do potholes, bumps, or even normal driving tweak the alignment, given the pushes and pulls to get them straight to begin with.
Thanks Chuck. Check out our alignment video for bicycle frames!
Awesome Paulito - Now I know how, I just need to master TIG, turning and frame building - so, nearly there 😲 Great episode as always - thanks.
Thank you.
I like the archaeopteryx on your helmet 🐲 another nice vid!
So that's what that ancient reptile is. I didn't know. Thanks for watching.
Really enjoying your Cub restoration. Another possible way to remove the tube from the damaged pivot would be to cut the frame tube off at both ends and bore out the remaining bit of frame brazed in the lug. Not easy to hold for machining but it would be an interesting exercise to see if it would work. You are very handy with a boring head on the mill. Just a thought
If I did that I would have to make a frame jig to hold the pivot in the correct position. Too much work!
Excellent.
John
Thank you John.
Just love everything you do on this channel.. That is a fantastic skill and your attention to detail is amazing..
Thanks George. Appreciate your comment.
A great repair, and I'm sure it will be plenty strong enough, but I would have left a root gap of 1.5 to 2mm of the tubes to allow full penetration to the insert also.
I ground a good "V", had the torch perpendicular, and wasn't shy on the heat. I don't think it's coming apart!
Best channel on the youtube.
Thank you Vernon.
The main thing to think about when checking frame alignment, if whether the steering head axis is at 90 degrees to the swinging arm pivot. Easy to check using a digital angle gauge, which can be found on ebay for not that much money.
Your inspired all of us.. thank you so much 😎 for sharing.
You are so welcome! Thanks for watching.
Really enjoy the very interesting and informative channel. Your 'shop' is every engineers dream and your knowledge is inspiring.. Looking forward to the next part of the Cub restoration. I was given a non working Cub as a 16 year old but didn't know where tom start.
John, thanks for watching. It's not really a restoration, I've made too many modifications to call it anywhere near stock.
Brilliant mate, but the only part I fully understood was the big hammer!!!!
That's ok, thanks for watching!
excellent ! Paul & Mitch, I`ll wager that repair has exorcised a few
demons, a fine job Paul, and taking a hacksaw to the tube takes
a very steady hand, 👍cool as !😎 yup, enjoyed this
Thank you William. I'm glad it is done, because a part of me was unsure how it would turn out. I tried an engine in later, and the bolts went in easily!
@@paulbrodie ah cool, i just got my tee today and that`s a good fit also, thanks ,
A good fix and a saved frame. You describe the brackets as castings, but I wonder if they are forgings and not castings?
Hmmm. Now you have me thinking.. I guess research is called for!
And that's how its done! Good work to both of ya!
Thanks Rick. Someone else might have done it a different way.
Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for watching!
Ahhh...now I can sleep at night. I hate loose ends!😂
Me too!
Great repair Paul
I was surprised you didn't pin the dowel either side of the join or a core weld as a minimum
But I guess it's only a cub frame,not under much stress
Thank you Nick. I don't think those tubes will move after Tig welding..
Paul, Just curious why you don't drill a hole in the frame tubing and do a rosette weld to hold the slug in place? Excellent video!
Thanks David. Doing a little fusion pass with the Tig certainly holds the internal lug from slipping.
Would be pretty rad with S&S couplers. :)
You know that S&S couplers are only approved to be used on bicycle frames!?
A few years ago for a bike featured in Cycle World magazine Richard Pollock unbrazed a Harley frame to replace a tube. Perhaps the Harley frame lugs were a looser fit than Triumph? Cheers...
You must have a great storage system 'cos you have all the right tooling...and you know exactly where it is :)
I'm glad that's what it looks like from the outside! In reality, sometimes I can't find a tool, and I have no one else to blame.
Now that frame is straighter than factory.
Good job and super interesting to watch👍🙂
Thank you David.
Better than new!
Thanks Stephen!
You good!!!
Good repair job. Did you consider removing the broken part of the original in the milling machine, making up a replacement in the lathe, then welding/brazing the new piece in?
No, I don't think that would be a good fix.
Lovely Job, also spotted the Yellow Honda VTR, lovely bikes, I hope you do a video on it.
Thanks. Yes, someone else mentioned doing a video on the VTR. It's just a Honda...
@@paulbrodie Just a Honda.... blasphemy :) (ok I do prefer the older ones, but I have a VTR because it has a lovely engine)
@@tomnwoo I like the VTR engine for its' sound and power curve, but do NOT like working on it.
@@paulbrodie Agreed, not friendly, like lots of modern bikes, I have an MC22 250cc inline 4, that is an absolute nightmare, radiator has to come out to change the spark plugs
Came across your channel by accident, liked your presentation style and what you are doing so subscribed. With respect to the repair, it will certainly be completely serviceable. However if you sell the frame I would hope you would inform the buyer of its history (maybe show them the video too).
Of course. Thanks for subscribing 🙂
Nice 👍
When I was an apprentice bike frame builder with Sam at Braxtons' Bike Shop in Missoula he insisted that we install pins in the lugs before brazing. Turns out Sam had worked at a British bike frame builder when he was learning. I hated those pins! As far as the Tiger frame repair I'm wondering why you didn't drill holes through the frame at the appropriate spots for rosette welds? I think that would have made the frame stiffer at those joints, maybe? haha
Yes, I could have done those rosette welds, but this is just a little Cub frame that may never get used, so I think it will be just fine with the Tig welding done. Thanks for watching..
I like the adjustable hand chock you have for the tig. Thats a good bit of cunning . I liked the swapping the cones on the head tube on the frame table and glad you left in in the video .
One question tho woukd you not focus on the swing arm pivot being perpendicular to the head tube as opposed to the fram tubes . Or if it really mattered would you make the tubes correct then deal with the swing arm pivot alignment on its own if need be ? . Keep up the content. Thanks
We do have have to keep in mind that this is a repair / salvage frame, and not destined to be a world beater. Yes, the swingarm pivot needs to be perpendicular to the head tube, within reason. I figured that by adding internal frame lugs inside the existing tubes, it would be aligned "reasonably well". Most production frames aren't perfectly aligned. As long as the engine and swingarm don't have to be forced into place, that's good for me. Thanks for watching 😉
@@paulbrodie you make very good points . I appreciate your time and thought for the reply
Brazed over a (coal/coke fired) forge? Like, supposed some bicycle frames have been done in the past?
Good to see “propping” while Tig welding. I never noticed it before. My denseness.
Yes, cheap bicycle frames with thicker tubes have been brazed this way. Sometimes dipped into molten brass to make the brazing very fast.
👍 Paolo ok😉
Nice job. While would be sacrilege, its much less work to simply change the frame number stamping, or change over the stamped bit of the frames. Yes, I know ;)
Great as always Paul. Just wondering why you favour a non reactive welding lens?
Thanks. You mean why don't I use an auto darkening helmet? I weld thin material sometimes, with low amperage, and if you don't have a very expensive helmet, they are not sensitive enough and your eyes will get zapped. I also think there is a milli-second for the lens to darken, and I'm not sure about that. With my old school helmet, I never have to change the batteries...
Edward Turner would be much amused... You broke it, you bloody fix it... A 200 mph frame for a 60 mph bike. Thanks, folks.
Thanks Bill.
Was the original attachment of the mount to the frame called Furnace Brazing? Nice job on the repair. Odd that the Brit's frames were heavy although typically the overall weight of their bikes were on the lower side.
It could be called Furnace Brazing, I am not an expert on this. The word Hearth Brazing was what came to my mind.
I do like a GOOD FIT ////G6 slip fit
Me too!
Nobody aligns themselves on the bike when their riding so I guess close enough is close enough. Now you've created a Chopper Cub.
The frame is back to stock. Not sure what you mean by a Chopper Cub?
I always notice the bookshelf speakers, what are you and Mitch listening to in the shop when you're not recording?
I like to listen to music. That does not include any Hip Hop, Rap, Country, or Opera. I like Blues, Rock, Female vocal...
Really enjoyable episode. I thought for an awful minute that you were going to attempt to slid off that swinging arm bracket. Several "oh no"s were uttered in my head. But reason prevailed. By the way, do those cute little Kef Ref 101s ever get used? They are a rather high quality pair of speakers for a workshop. Of course having synthetic drivers, they are relatively impervious to harsher conditions than in the home. Although I'm sure your workshop doesn't suffer too much of that. 😋
Thank you. Those Kefs get used a Lot! I have had them since 1979. I can't use them when Mitch is filming. Something about music copyrights on UA-cam...
@@paulbrodie A great little speaker. I'm something of a Kef appreciator too, having a pair of Ref 104.2.
I was wondering when you would get back to this 🤣 Will you use the frame now?
I don't know. I already (almost) have one Cub, and it has been such a lot of work, I'm not planning on working on a second.
👍🏁
Oh we remember.
Perfekte Arbeit 👍💪
Thank you.
Прапор України:) Приємно:) Дякую за підтримку!!!
Низький уклін Вам .
Paul, why not use an auto-darkening welding helmet? It'll save you from all that neck snapping.
I never really think about it. I'm suspicious of the milli second it takes for the shield to darken. I might be Old School...
@@paulbrodie they've come along way with the response time - it's now around 1/25,000 second. In layman's terms, that's considerably faster than a tiger cub. They also have other features like darkness adjustment without having to change lenses.
@@cncsphere I'm saving up for a better lathe.
But the real question is; how many grams heavier it is now, with the lugs! :D
Come on, Paul, bring out the scale! :D :D
I´ve done similar things with Bikes but also with cars, but cars make one h..ll of a mess.
We all know the history of this frame! 😉
👍👏👏👏👏👌
Cheers Chris
Chris!!
Plug welding through the frame to the lugs probably wouldnt have hurt
Yes, others have mentioned rosette welding. I think that is the proper term.
11:07 you are having an archaeopteryx on your helmets left side. Is this a hidden secret message telling people theres an old bird hiding in hiding? Sorry came out meaner than I actually intended to😈
Yes, there is some sort of a prehistoric reptile sticker on my helmet. And I have no idea who gave it to me, or how long it has been there.. Another mystery!
Nice work saving one more. It's difficult to get a title on a rebuilt frame, and with a branded title it's not worth as much.
Thank you Ray.
Okay, I am totally getting deja vu here - is this a repost, or have you talked about the frame segment you received and the need to save the registration number before?
This is a new episode, but I did damage the frame badly on a previous episode. I can't remember if I mentioned the registration previously, sorry.
Enjoyable
Thanks!
Siiiickkkk
Exactly.
Come on PAUL, you can sort it.
I did my best, and wasn't sure of the outcome until it was done.
Better put the frame you are using on the table and check for alignment.
I have done that, don't worry.
@@paulbrodie I kind of figured you probably did.
You probably added about a half pound to the frame but I'm sure it's is stronger than the original frame. 👍 You wouldn't have none that on the Areomachi, on the Areomachi you excited when you could shave off a few grams.👍
Yes, the Triumph and Aermacchi are two completely different bikes. The Aermacchi is much more of a fine instrument!
👍👏👏☕️😁
Could almost say you were framed into repairing that one.
I like that one!
👍😎✌️