As a Vas player, I’ll die on the hill that march is the absolute scariest move in the game. You can deadass just space yourself in stance and not move and watch your opponent crumble
Hello, Siegfried yapper here once again to only watch the Siegfried section of one of these videos, drop 3 paragraphs and run away. It always tickles me when people complain about the size of Siegfried's DP, not because they're wrong but because it used to be even worse. You kids don't know true terror, before 1.5 we could catch fireball startups from half the screen away with that shit! Anyway, Siegfried's cheapest move is an interesting question. If we take your definition of a move with ease of use vs difficulty of counterplay, I can certainly see the reasoning behind your three candidates. 2M is a very belligerent option to throw out on advancing opponents and using it after 66L -> 5L pressure leaves very few avenues for counterplay as it spaces out short pokes and beats counter 66L on frame data. His DP is very huge and very active for... Reasons, and SBA shuts down entire characters with its threat alone. However, I wouldn't give to either of those three. Before I give my candidate, let me explain why. 2M is excellent, yes, but its still an 8-frame normal that will absolutely kill you to death for mashing it at the wrong time. His DP, whilst big and active, is also very standard in how punishable it is (which is something to note with characters like Belial running around), and his SBA is a costly tool that you also kind of have to be cognizant of in its use. To get the full value out of SBA as an anti-zoner tool, you have to actively plan not just around using it but the *threat* of using it, which isn't super difficult but still more difficult than you'd first think. Now to be clear, these are still all great moves and I wouldn't argue if you wanted to call any of them cheap in isolation. But for me, the title of Siegfried's cheapest move goes to a move that you actually mentioned in your video quite a bit, even though you never nominated it... 214H (Verdrangen, or the big slam). Let me explain. First, you have the damage. 214H does 2.4k damage raw and uncharged (2.6k charged), which is a silly amount of damage. Its directly responsible for some of Siegfried's dumbest and easiest confirms, like doing f.M -> 214H for a 3.3k "combo" or the infamous counterhit f.H -> 214H (charged) for upwards of **4000** damage off of TWO buttons. The silly damage also translates to silly chip - the degenerate checkmate with 214H -> DP you mentioned is partially enabled by 214H doing so much on block damage. Speaking of blocking, this massive sword slam is only -4 on block at most meaning its almost never punishable, and combined with its absurd size and range makes it extremely safe and easy to spam. Not only that, just by holding down the button you can cheat out free plus frames for almost no effort on anyone that doesn't know to watch for minute differences in cast times. Now obviously, this move has counterplay in spot-dodging. But its also 18 frames of startup uncharged. You're not reacting to that shit, you basically have to commit to a risky defensive option as a hard callout for them throwing out this move willy-nilly! Its not the best move in Siegfried's arsenal, but I think that in terms of sheer ease of use versus the absurd rewards you get and how much the opponent has to commit to fully punish it, it has no equal in terms of being his cheapest move.
I'm just glad to know Cag's cheapest move, according to Brick, is an F-Shiki I have used 5 times at most in all my 10 months playing Cag. It means I'm not that cheap to play, but I also mean I can become way cheaper if I focus on practicing this specific trick. Maybe with that I could finally get out of blue S!
Nier’s far.H actually carries her hurtbox with her, and while it’s not exactly gonna get clipped often…I’ve still gotten smacked by a normal at times. I would say if not far.H then it’d be ominous turn just because this carries the enemy a good distance away for corner carry. The U version especially so while having death invincible.
Tbh, while I agree that geegee is prob ferry's cheapest button, I think saying it's 22U specifically is probably ladiva bias lol. She just gets way more off the others even if there's a lot more risk to em. 22u kinda just exists to be blocked and even if by some miracle it hits, she doesn't get anything off it.
Unironically Soriz 623L is SUPER CHEAP. Still crazy attack level, 6 frames, and only 29 frames total so it’s super hard to whiff punish. The amount of people who get hit by Counterhit 623L into 623H into death is crazy lmaooooo
As a Vas player, I’ll die on the hill that march is the absolute scariest move in the game. You can deadass just space yourself in stance and not move and watch your opponent crumble
Hello, Siegfried yapper here once again to only watch the Siegfried section of one of these videos, drop 3 paragraphs and run away.
It always tickles me when people complain about the size of Siegfried's DP, not because they're wrong but because it used to be even worse. You kids don't know true terror, before 1.5 we could catch fireball startups from half the screen away with that shit!
Anyway, Siegfried's cheapest move is an interesting question. If we take your definition of a move with ease of use vs difficulty of counterplay, I can certainly see the reasoning behind your three candidates. 2M is a very belligerent option to throw out on advancing opponents and using it after 66L -> 5L pressure leaves very few avenues for counterplay as it spaces out short pokes and beats counter 66L on frame data. His DP is very huge and very active for... Reasons, and SBA shuts down entire characters with its threat alone. However, I wouldn't give to either of those three. Before I give my candidate, let me explain why.
2M is excellent, yes, but its still an 8-frame normal that will absolutely kill you to death for mashing it at the wrong time. His DP, whilst big and active, is also very standard in how punishable it is (which is something to note with characters like Belial running around), and his SBA is a costly tool that you also kind of have to be cognizant of in its use. To get the full value out of SBA as an anti-zoner tool, you have to actively plan not just around using it but the *threat* of using it, which isn't super difficult but still more difficult than you'd first think. Now to be clear, these are still all great moves and I wouldn't argue if you wanted to call any of them cheap in isolation. But for me, the title of Siegfried's cheapest move goes to a move that you actually mentioned in your video quite a bit, even though you never nominated it...
214H (Verdrangen, or the big slam). Let me explain.
First, you have the damage. 214H does 2.4k damage raw and uncharged (2.6k charged), which is a silly amount of damage. Its directly responsible for some of Siegfried's dumbest and easiest confirms, like doing f.M -> 214H for a 3.3k "combo" or the infamous counterhit f.H -> 214H (charged) for upwards of **4000** damage off of TWO buttons. The silly damage also translates to silly chip - the degenerate checkmate with 214H -> DP you mentioned is partially enabled by 214H doing so much on block damage. Speaking of blocking, this massive sword slam is only -4 on block at most meaning its almost never punishable, and combined with its absurd size and range makes it extremely safe and easy to spam. Not only that, just by holding down the button you can cheat out free plus frames for almost no effort on anyone that doesn't know to watch for minute differences in cast times. Now obviously, this move has counterplay in spot-dodging. But its also 18 frames of startup uncharged. You're not reacting to that shit, you basically have to commit to a risky defensive option as a hard callout for them throwing out this move willy-nilly! Its not the best move in Siegfried's arsenal, but I think that in terms of sheer ease of use versus the absurd rewards you get and how much the opponent has to commit to fully punish it, it has no equal in terms of being his cheapest move.
I'm just glad to know Cag's cheapest move, according to Brick, is an F-Shiki I have used 5 times at most in all my 10 months playing Cag. It means I'm not that cheap to play, but I also mean I can become way cheaper if I focus on practicing this specific trick. Maybe with that I could finally get out of blue S!
As a vikala, her cheapest move is 623lmh it is just a "time to guess idiot" moment
I still stand by the idea that demonflip is her cheapest move, but I love the idea that people don't.
Nier’s far.H actually carries her hurtbox with her, and while it’s not exactly gonna get clipped often…I’ve still gotten smacked by a normal at times. I would say if not far.H then it’d be ominous turn just because this carries the enemy a good distance away for corner carry. The U version especially so while having death invincible.
Tbh, while I agree that geegee is prob ferry's cheapest button, I think saying it's 22U specifically is probably ladiva bias lol. She just gets way more off the others even if there's a lot more risk to em. 22u kinda just exists to be blocked and even if by some miracle it hits, she doesn't get anything off it.
Riding Free!
Unironically Soriz 623L is SUPER CHEAP. Still crazy attack level, 6 frames, and only 29 frames total so it’s super hard to whiff punish. The amount of people who get hit by Counterhit 623L into 623H into death is crazy lmaooooo
Your chat exposed themselves by saying every characters U fireball