Cell never came back Piccolo should have gotten a namekian God form Goku Black arc ended badly Jiren backstory is mediocre Moro senzu bean Granolah being too strong?
@@djbubblegum9975 If you haven't already, I highly recommend reading Dragon Ball Elsewhere. It's a fanfic manga centered around Yamcha that's been ongoing since the 90's.
A franchise with the capability of fusioning characters and giving them new forms. Should we use this to renew our cast and revigorate old characters? Nah, lt's give goku white or pink hair and a fuzzy aura and call it a day.
@@AlexTheDominator1453 My main problem with dragon ball itself is that the earthling characters can't keep on and them they get useless, make them a little more stronger like: making the humans being more able to hold on Kaioken for longer or make them with Earth magic techniques that only truly humans can learn
About Buu being in the tournament too, I think there is a way we could have had skinny Buu AND Freiza. Since the old supreme Kai is still inside of Buu, you could make the argument that he's a godly entity, at least partly, and therefore he wouldn't be eligible to compete. They could have even had it be a whole thing, with the Supreme Kai submitting his roster choices, and the head priest saying they can't use Buu, or maybe after the exhibition match the priest would say Buu can't participate officially because of the "no gods" requirement, then everyone would panic and try to find someone as strong as him to take the spot and falling back on Frieza because of that, anything is better than "lol, he fell asleep I dunno"
I'm not trying to defend Roshi's... antics, but I must point out that his training to make himself less... inappropriate didn't occur in the Super manga, and therefore it's unfair to say his recent character development was undone in the Moro arc because it technically didn't happen prior. If the Moro arc is ever animated and that one scene with Roshi isn't changed to reflect his anime-exclusive character growth however, then I will fully support your anger, because it will be 100% valid. Otherwise, I agree with all your other points.
Facts I hate when people rag on the manga for not paying attention to the anime As if manga cares more for the anime rather than its own manga continuity
@@sidecharacter3193 I hate when an anime deviates from the manga so much that it's not canon. At this point Bleach has better continuity with it's manga than Super does.
I was looking for this comment! Also, Roshi returned to his former self in the anime ToP itself too when fighting against Caway from U4, so even of the manga followed the anime continuity it wouldn't have been a problem of the Moro arc.
@@passarovoador6662 I'd say it's pretty canon. All the story points are written by Toriyama, but Toyotarou has liberties in saying how they are carried out. It's as Canon as The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi are.
Lets not forget that 18 was almost the first eliminated in the tournament of power, she was about to grt knocked out when Krillin saved her, but they still made Krillin look like a joke when he was first out
it wasn't even supposed to happen. Goku was the one meant to seal Zamasu (and still fail). In fact, if you look at the manga, you start to realise that Toriyama didn't design the structure of the arc to feature Trunks as a relevant character aside from introducing Black to Goku and Vegeta. It was Toei's decision to give him a prominent role as a fighter, even by powering him up to ridiculous levels, which I find very funny since in the end the arc just throws everything we've been fighting for to the trash anyways.
This is a long standing issue with Dragon Ball. It has a history of ripping character development moments away from anyone that isn't Goku. Shame too since db has so many unique and fun characters
I agree with you Masako. There are many times where Dragonball Super failed a lot of the Dragon Team. The one that affected me most was Future Trunks not staying in the main timeline and being a big brother to Present Trunks and Bra while having a friendly rivalry with Gohan. I would have liked to see Future Trunks have a kid with Future Mai which would be a good rival for Pan!
That's really good, but it'd be hard to write him into the ToP, or any other arc for that matter. There's too many "main characters" to juggle with Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, and for the ToP Android 17 and Frieza. Trunks would just end up taking Roshi or Piccolo's spotlight and ultimately be disappointing. Unless they wrote him off as "he's from the future so can't participate" but imagine the hate that would get. They already get enough flak for what they did to Buu and Gotenks.
I agree I wish they would have expanded on Krillin’s No Ego Zone potential with its ability to have ki imbued fists. I would have also liked to see Krillin gain a enlightenment transformation based on his status as a monk where he gains a orange aura and the six dots on his head shine where his fighting style embodies a monk enlightened person.
The end of the Black arc was easily the most infuriating part of Super. The genocidal blue brat can also piss off. Biggest villain in all of Dragon Ball. Also wasn't a fan of how they reduced Gohan to a joke for most of Super.
Also the thing not mentioned here, in the sparring match between Ultimate Gohan and Goku. Gohan heavily implied that he was going to find a new power from his Human side, going a different path than Goku’s Angel route and Vegeta’s God of Destruction route. And then… nothing. We all expected Gohan to get a new form in the Tournament of Power, but nothing happened and he’s stayed mostly irrelevant. That felt like a bait and switch to me.
@@incognito4971 there's still the buff thing that roshi did he could learn, he could also try to find a new power with potiental unleashed. or maybe gohan can ask goku to teach him kaioken. so why it is true that gohan doesn't train much, it's unfair for gohan fans to see gohan train for the next threat, only to not have a new transformation or anything.
@@MarcellNoSekai Fax! I was at least waiting on some sort of Potential Unleashed Mach 2 (especially after seeing his 7 Level Dragon Install from Fighters)
one day we’re going to have to explain why Super Dragon Ball Heroes & Dragon Ball Super Super Hero are 2 completely separate things with almost identical titles, which wouldn’t make any logical sense to anyone outside the DB community
I am against overcensorship in any form of media (boobs make us healthy, deal with it) but I am proud that Roshi graduated from being a coomer. It only took him over 100 years
any censorship is bad look what its led to in the west why do you think anime is so popular its because all our stories are trash and over censored dragon ball super is a perfect example its not a great show its not awful but not great in any way. People love it cuz everything else is garbage tier now so anime even its mediocre stuff is way better because of the creative freedom they have
Hard disagree that Japan needs to change anime to appeal to the rest of the world, that's colonizer thinking Most people like anime BECAUSE it's different
Agreed. I would rather read a fan translation of a manga or watch fan subs of an anime unreleased outside of Japan than to see an author forced to cater to the whims of people who will never run out of things to complain about for the sake of a western release. I've seen enough drama over series like Uzaki-chan, Nagatoro, and MHA to ever think that trying to appease the rest of the world would be worthwhile.
They can do what they want, sure... but if they want to survive and keep getting serialized (spoilers, they do) than they know that there are consequences for actions. Not sure how this is a hot take.
With respect to Future Trunks, I can even accept the "bad future" ending, with Xeno having to erase it *if* it had been used to bring Future Trunks, Future Mai, Future Bulma, and a few other survivors to our timeline as refugees. Feel like getting another What If from Supers' shortcomings? Do a "downer" ending correctly, while reinforcing the danger a rogue god abusing wishes can do, and how important Xeno actually is. Plus, double Bulma!
Zamasu winning was actually important. Every single DB story ended with the good guys winning and everything going back to normal. It's too predictable so this time it was different. It created the uncertainty in the story's outcome that it really needed.
Agree with all of them aside from the Grand Priest one not sure that was really bait and switch. Fans theorized about it so much without barely any signs of it
I know there are many you could have included with a longer list, but the failure to revive Cell seems like one. I know, I know: Cell is too time consuming to draw... if only it was established that Cell's physical appearance could radically change as he grew in power. Toriyama could literally drop the spots from Cell, keeping everything else the same, and call it a power up a la Super Saiyan saving him from having to ink in Saiyan hair!
Then what they would have to do with cell I'm sure he wouldn't have much interest in redeeming himself atleast freeza could work as a better plot device if he wouldn't have to fight directly with our characters like in dbs:broly and now in the granolah arc so imo freeza is a much better choice narratively though I think it could have been better if resurrection f didnt exist
Super should have left 17 out and used Yamcha. Just say he did secret training too and used it to be more defensive since everyone else goes offensive. That way he could have the energy shield. 18 still could have saved him by saying he coached Krillin all throguhout their relationship so she'd be very endeared to him. Make Yamcha great again basically and give him SOME redemption. Can you imaigne Yamcha as the joke he is but then being the one to save ALL the universes? There, redemption done and joke gone.
I'm gonna be honest, this idea of the grand priest and angels were plotting something against Zeno, I have no idea where people got this idea from. As far as I remember, something like that was never even implied. It kind of seems like fans got an idea in their head, decided it was canon, and are now mad that it's not.
I think it would have been cool if Roshi did pass away and Krillin succeeded Master Roshi as head of the Turtle School as well as spurring on Gohan to research his maternal side of his family as it is said that Chi-Chi is the grandneice of Roshi adding backstory and depth to the Son Goku family.
man, this series has so much, like, net 0 character progression, which is honestly more frustrating than no character progression. it's like teasing you with the idea of a character changing and growing and then snapping back to their prior status. it feels like they're too afraid to have characters progress at all, because if their personalities change even a bit then everyone will stop watching the series.
Toei didn’t make enough of an effort to maintain character continuity between episodes. Being a collaborative project, it takes just one inattentive member of the writing team to botch and undo what effort has been made to progress the characters
@@welshlout3400 from what I understand at this point is that it's mostly just Toyotarou writing and Toriyama supervising, so I'm not sure if that excuse really fits. and either way, even if there were more writers working under them them it's their responsibility to make sure the story is at least _somewhat_ cohesive. from where I'm standing it really seems more like the decisions to never progress the characters too far from the baseline is deliberate.
@@darkychao If we’re talking about the manga exclusively it obviously doesn’t add up. Like you say, that’s basically a solo operation and Toei has no involvement there. I guess I assumed you were talking about the anime series when you said “watching the series”. In which case, yeah, that’s the problem. Multiple writers.
The issue isn't just in the writers... it's in the setting, a midquel set before the end of Z... This alone murders 70% of the stakes and actual development of characters... then there's also the fixation in maintaining the status quo...
Vegeta deserves to demolish and annihilate Frieza after everything he put him through growing up. Super is destroying the characters, most of them just feel so regressed and don't get me started on the blatant overuse of Frieza.
The super saipan blue + kaioken consequence thing. Goku had only a small chance of even surviving the attempt of that technique. I remember the filler episode after the universe 6 tournament where goku was feeling the effects of using it. I thought it was interesting to see consequences to Gokus reckless pursuit to get stronger and wondered what kind of effects this would have on the narrative going forward. Maybe progression won't be so linear this time around. Maybe they'll have to find different ways to get stronger other than raising their power level. Of course everything was fine and was using kaioken blue left and right in the next arc.
Goku using SSB Kaio-Ken against Hit: not only does Goku suffer the typical muscle strain of the kaio-ken, but his ki is irreversibly impaired for a while afterward to the point where he can’t even fly right Goku using SSB Kaio-Ken against anyone after that: consequences schmonsequences
They could have used the ending of the Black saga to introduce Trunks as time patroller Trunks. Could have been a nice touch, Whis sending him to work with the Supreme Kai of Time due to him being a person displaced in time and space. Would be a cool nod to DBH and Xenoverse.
I hate how Tenshinhan is basically given nothing to do. The guy is the one human who never stopped training, was all about self improvement, who was determined to somehow compete with the Sayians and Namekians . . . and he's shown being a terrible teacher who evil Roshi can just slap aside. Why not have Tien come back having figured out the Kaioken, how to get a bigger boost while having less of a strain on the body. Why not have him combine the Kaioken and Kikoho to create the raw power to make his signature technique even more devastating? Why not remember all the techniques he had in Dragon Ball , maybe have some new ones thrown in? Why not have him actually focus on becoming more skilled and technical focused so he can compete with stronger opponents by being a superior martial artist? Why not remember he's psychic? So much potential, so little payoff.
I never actually believed the GOP was going to become evil. Mostly because...well...what do you do then? The stronger fighters in the tournament wouldn't be anywhere near as strong as Whis, let alone the GP. How could the heroes win when faced against someone like that?
Pretty sure frizea changed his mind mid tournament or his plans to undermine the gods required the wish from the super dragon balls which he couldn't get so he went back to his usual routine.
@@tiablue9106 But he has no idea where to get one and they're usually around gods of destruction and angels not to mention how is he gonna move and take the planet size dragon balls with him to other universes?
Facts..although I would have loved Bergamo to get more shine too as well as the bird guy roshi fought. I would have liked if all the universes has at least one guy that was top teir..like a serious threat to even goku and vegeta
@@darrellsimon4462 fully agreed. And in reality those types of characters were only present in universes 6 and 11 all the other universes were weak, universe 3 had to fuse 5 characters to be an actual threat to a weakened goku and vegeta 😂
As it’s already been shown with manga completely dominating the graphic novel sales charts. Never change your already established franchise for foreign audiences cause all that does is drive away your existing fans and not gain new ones.
OH yeah, the way that Krillin was treated in the tournament just infuriated me. Krillin has always been shown to be VERY smart, sly, and a clever tactician. Remember, it was Krillin who figured out the details to get the team to Namek, and has consistently seen things clearly that all the others missed. Seeing him taken out by a cheap shot from Frost like that just pissed me off. But as for the idea of a plot against Zeno by the Grand Priest and the Angels... I never saw any kind of hint of that ANYWHERE. And I am always seriously baffled as to where this idea came from every time I see it mentioned on the Internet... there wasn't the tiniest hint of this idea ANYWHERE in ANY of the Dragon Ball Super that I watched; maybe I was just watching a different show than everyone else? So this idea that there was some kind of bait and switch or big letdown from the story not following up on its hints of "the Grand Priest's sinister plot against Zeno" is just something I just can't even comprehend, because i never saw the slightest evidence of the idea in the first place. Could ANYONE out there point out just which episodes they believed contained hints pointing to the GP plotting against Zeno? Because otherwise I'm going to stick with my current conclusion... that the whole idea was all just a load of fanfiction fever dreams that some Internet fans came up with on their own, and convinced themselves (and almost everyone else, apparently) that they had actually seen some kind of evidence for it in the show. Because I didn't see squat.
The only reason ppl made that theory was bc of the grand priest and a couple angels looking all ominous in some shots lol or like they had investment in the universe erasure than just bc the zenos wanted to do it. Also ig some ppl thought the grand priest seems like he’s putting on a happy face (for the zenos). But yeah, the theory was based on little to nothing and idk why so many fans expected some big coup-guess they connected it to frieza’s planned coup considering the angels were the only others in place to pull that off. Now it just kinda makes u wonder why they kept making the grand priest look creepy
@@tiablue9106 OK, thanks! I GUESS that must explain it, even though I never noticed anything that lead me to believe there was anything sinister going on with the angels. My guess is that the ominous looking shots were just a way to make the Grand Priest seem like he was a really big important person in a position of power, and the way to do that in Japanese culture is to portray them as cool, mysterious, and maybe even slightly sinister at first. Remember how Shin/Supreme Kai was initially portrayed back when he first appeared at the beginning of the 25th World Martial Arts Tournament? With narrowed eyes like he was hiding something, and just generally coming off with a slightly sinister vibe? Of course, it didn't take all that long for Shin to switch to being all wide-eyed and awed at the sheer power of mere mortal Saiyans, but up until that point he acted all all narrow-eyed and inscrutable. That was the same thing they were trying to go for with the Grand Priest, and I recognized what they were going for immediately as the same kind of Japanese cultural short hand, but I guess it just SAILED STRAIGHT OVER the collective head of online Dragon Ball fandom?? You would THINK that most Dragon Ball fans would've recognized such a Japanese cultural trope, being people who SHOULD have a pretty good grasp of Japanese cultural storytelling signs that show up a lot in anime... but I guess I was mistaken and they just didn't get it?
As much as I like Super, they dropped the ball hard with these decisions: The Pilaf Gang's rushed redemption (and it doesn't help that Mai is developing feelings for kid Trunks because her future self is with Future Trunks) and Goku forgetting the Urn Seal.
Let's take a moment to realize how 8 points out of 10 were due to the anime having to create ton of filler because Toriyama gave the team jackshit to work with...
"And most of the time, the Japanese carry on regardless despite the world actually telling them to, you know, not do that!" And I love 'em for it. When it's just entertainment.
I disagree with the Roshi point. He didn't go through the same 'training' as in the anime and the Moro Arc was written by Toyotaro himself, not the anime studio. Kind of weird to expect a different canon to include something from a completely different canon.
yeah, frieza should honestly be looking for the super dragon balls rn. I always thought it was dangerous having those around and goku black is proof of that; imo they should either get rid of them or show off their potential more. I mean they're dragon balls with ZERO limits
It doesn't come from a place of arrogance. It's more to do with being aware of foreign markets and that they exist and how it can lead to better audience response. For example, in the Broly movie, the chanting was a tribute to the Mexican audience who watched the last two Super episodes in their droves. That's cool
@@MasakoX it's fine asking for things. But claiming it as a mistake or an issue is to me arrogant. I agree with you with the desire to see the change, but I won't say they failed for not meeting my standard when that standard is a cultural one.
Toyotaros interpretation of caulifla was an absolute character assassination. He left all of her flaws and removed all the good traits she had. One of the main reasons why I hated his version on the ToP arc
@@josephbriggs2257 toyotaro turned her from a genius into a mook for one, destroyed her relationship with kale, got rid of the mentor dynamic between Goku and caulifla, and then made her out to be some kind of asshole. Also she's a complete weakling in the manga which again destroys a major part of her character.
@@wolvekrome2475 I see. I always just thought Caulifla’s anime variant could easily work by itself, but just not in the ToP’s setting, which is the real issue a lot of people have. The situation is too, well, “serious” for someone like her, Ribrianne, and even Jiren to actually work well. I kind of just wish we got introduced to her via Vegeta going to Sadala and letting Goku tag along for funsies.
Funny, you loved episode 89 in your episode reviews and didn't mention that it made you uncomfortable at the time. Are we sure we aren't looking back with modern eyes and assuming our current views are the same as what they were? Its not like dragon ball abridged fit in with 2021 political correctness to the point tfs winsed at old jokes they made just a few years ago. They are cartoon characters, roshi is fine.
People don't like Roshi because of his perv antics; they like him IN SPIDE of that. So I don't know why they're so adamant to let that problematic aspect of his character go. His inclusion in the TOP was great! It showed that you're never too old to improve yourself, that experience goes a long way, and that even masters can continue to learn. I wish this new Roshi had stuck around...
By far the biggest for me was the build up to a plot of the angels and GP. The zoom in on a smile of an angel when it's own universe gets erased from existence, the looks from the GP, it all felt so important and I was so ready for a huge twist that all of the angels, even Weiss, were about to do something to overthrow Zeno and the survivors from Universe 7 and any not erased yet were going to have to do something, maybe get whisked away to train and plot together against an unstoppable force...it could have been something great. How about the bait and nothing of the universes not included in the tournament because they were "too powerful"?
I'm pretty sure the 4 universes that didn't compete were only written to do so bc the writers realized 120 fighters would be a bit too many for them and wanted to cut it down lol
@@tiablue9106 By that logic it was already far too many. It is a good hook that there are universes out there with fighters powerful enough that it would not even be a challenge, but knowing that Goku (especially these days) has NEVER brought up that he would like to meet these incredibly powerful fighters? Everything about the other universes (not just the missing 4) feels like a series of missed opportunities.
@@TheIncarnadine042 well goku always keeps training to prepare for fighting stronger folks, but it is strange he seems content to stay in U7 unless necessary bc he's already like the top mortal in his universe. and considering the series has yet to have vegeta visit planet sadala over 90 eps after he planned to, I doubt we're gonna see much of the other universes too soon lol
I like how most of these, (with exceptions like the trunks thing that happened in both versions) happen in the anime and not the manga. Toei, you little pricks!
I believe Nigrishi was eliminated by complete accident through behind the scenes miscommunication. My reasoning is in his design being shark-like, while the ultimate fusion of his universe Anylaza had a hammerhead-like design. He had too much attention brought to him to have been a nobody.
So because Dragon Ball, a franchise that you love, has gained prominence on a global scale Toei should begin catering to the tastes of people outside of Japan? If that were to happen Dragon Ball would no longer be Dragon Ball, and I'm shocked to hear you insinuate that it should be.
Dragon Ball Super has took the character development from Z and put it through a meat grinder. Vegeta got it the worst in my opinion. Same for the rest of the Z crew
For me, it was the entirety of the Tournament of Power. I absolutely despise that arc. To me, it pretty much represents everything I hate about the DB franchise: flashy fights with no plot or character development behind them. Most arcs have decent plots and plenty of good characters, but the ToP was litterally just all flash/no substance. It just sucks. If I wanna just watch a bunch of mindless action with nothing behind it, I'll just watch one of the millions of DBZ AMVs out there.
Dude you did not watch the top at all if you think no character development was made Roshi learning that his age doesn’t mean he can’t keep improving Frieza and goku learning to trust eachother Jiren learning that true strength comes from those around you Vegeta proving he doesn’t need to copy goku to improve Vegeta teaching toppo that throwing your ideals away isn’t how power should be gained The gods learning to respect mortals Top has a lot of problem but being flashy with no substance isn’t it, that’s the problem with the z movies
Gohan certainly had a lot of build up in Super that amounted to basically nothing. He got some cool moments for sure but no defining ultimate moment that could rival him beating Cell. I know he tied with Kefla in the manga, but really came out of nowhere and mostly diminished Kefla's power along with all the other universe teams she'd beaten at that point (the manga did have a habit of making several characters look weaker than their anime counterparts).
Wel that’s because gohan was never gonna make a god tier action Him somehow performing an action like a ssjb would basically just make more people cry about powerscaling
Every time I remember what super did to Frost I get angry. Seriously what was even the point of Frost? It feels that he was created to appease the Vegeta fans since he didn't get the victory against Frieza. They could have done something interesting with golden Frieza vs golden Frost (or any other colour idc) and prior to the his elimination he was actually doing fine but instead they had to make him even more of a joke.
Nah, the most frustrating moment was my boy Katopesla not getting longer screen time to shine and show his moves, he was refreshing to see in the tournament to be honest
Don't forget how Universe 2 had a Yardrat (Jimizu) and a Tuffle (Zarbuto) in the team and they never explained how. Even in the Moro arc when we saw Yardrats again it was neven even mentioned.
Trunks, bursting through the wall: This was a trap! This entire series, the movies, they were all used to boost Goku and Vegeta's power and its gap from everyone else!
- Universe 4 mysterious fighters were extremely underwhelming as well...the God Rat was the only god so confident during episode 109 (goku vs Jiren) that for a second I thought that they could surprise us with universe 4 being the real treat. - They should have given Piccolo and the namekians from universe 6 some extra moments of respect and connection and then, in the end, when they realized that they were the only ones left from their universe and that they wouldn't be a match for the rest of the fighters, they could ask Piccolo yo fuse with him so they the universe 6 namakeians legacy wouldn't desapear forever..that way they witheir legacy would survive through Piccolo...Can you imagine Piccolo's power boost with that? They could easily put Piccolo at the level of UI omen or at least Kalifla...Plus would be a perfect excuse to give Piccolo a intense power boost
I still don't get why they didn't just keep Future Trunks and Mai in the main timeline. Like if you need to explain why they aren't around all the time or at the Uub Tournament, just have them like Join the galactic patrol, or put him in universe 6 to help train those saiyan, or have him hang out with his uncle Tarble or anything excuse you need to only bring him in when necessary. I think people would have been more okay with Trunks's timeline being erased if it meant that he'd get to join the main cast.
I know a lot of fans would disagree with me, but if the manga was allowed to go ahead of the anime from the get go and the series just fully adapted the stories, art style, and brutality of the manga (with some filler of course) then I think Super would’ve been better received than it was. Yes, the manga has issues (now more than ever), but the manga didn’t waste our time retelling the movies and feels more consistent with the original series. The anime could always flesh things out more, so any problems in the manga could’ve been further explored in the anime. Just an idea.
Thanks for watching! Can you think of other times when Dragon Ball Super let its characters down?
Alot of times, tbh.
Hello
I am third and the video was good.
Vegito both times
Cell never came back
Piccolo should have gotten a namekian God form
Goku Black arc ended badly
Jiren backstory is mediocre
Moro senzu bean
Granolah being too strong?
That one chapter where yamcha with the "galatic police force" got to shine and not be a stupid meme is still imo the best thing super has ever done.
As a legit Yamcha fan that chapter is one of my all time favourites in the series
Same, wish it could lasted longer though.
@@djbubblegum9975 If you haven't already, I highly recommend reading Dragon Ball Elsewhere. It's a fanfic manga centered around Yamcha that's been ongoing since the 90's.
@@chriscannon8144 i love how it brought my two favorite underdog characters; Nail and Yamcha to train together.
@@EclipseHedgehog That wasn't the one I was talking about, but I remember that one in particular as well. Wish there was more like that one.
The Dragon Ball franchise failed Tien, Yamcha and Chiaotzu. What was the point of reviving them?
2 words
Filler episodes
A franchise with the capability of fusioning characters and giving them new forms. Should we use this to renew our cast and revigorate old characters? Nah, lt's give goku white or pink hair and a fuzzy aura and call it a day.
Empty fanservice, because people are lenient enough with modern db to let that happen...
Tien is the strongest earthling too toriyama is pathetic
@@AlexTheDominator1453 My main problem with dragon ball itself is that the earthling characters can't keep on and them they get useless, make them a little more stronger like: making the humans being more able to hold on Kaioken for longer or make them with Earth magic techniques that only truly humans can learn
About Buu being in the tournament too, I think there is a way we could have had skinny Buu AND Freiza. Since the old supreme Kai is still inside of Buu, you could make the argument that he's a godly entity, at least partly, and therefore he wouldn't be eligible to compete. They could have even had it be a whole thing, with the Supreme Kai submitting his roster choices, and the head priest saying they can't use Buu, or maybe after the exhibition match the priest would say Buu can't participate officially because of the "no gods" requirement, then everyone would panic and try to find someone as strong as him to take the spot and falling back on Frieza because of that, anything is better than "lol, he fell asleep I dunno"
For real! That would have at least been a more interesting reason
Or they could've had a Majin Buu of another universe
@@JoeFanik pretty sure they would need a member from their universe to take part in t.o.p
@Overto he was a candidate to be a god
This would have also served as foreshadowing for the moro arc where we actually see grand supreme kai and see him come out of boo
The fact that Krillin only fights when he's bald.
I'm not trying to defend Roshi's... antics, but I must point out that his training to make himself less... inappropriate didn't occur in the Super manga, and therefore it's unfair to say his recent character development was undone in the Moro arc because it technically didn't happen prior. If the Moro arc is ever animated and that one scene with Roshi isn't changed to reflect his anime-exclusive character growth however, then I will fully support your anger, because it will be 100% valid. Otherwise, I agree with all your other points.
Facts I hate when people rag on the manga for not paying attention to the anime
As if manga cares more for the anime rather than its own manga continuity
@@sidecharacter3193 I hate when an anime deviates from the manga so much that it's not canon. At this point Bleach has better continuity with it's manga than Super does.
I was looking for this comment!
Also, Roshi returned to his former self in the anime ToP itself too when fighting against Caway from U4, so even of the manga followed the anime continuity it wouldn't have been a problem of the Moro arc.
@@JKurayami The Manga is not canon also
@@passarovoador6662 I'd say it's pretty canon. All the story points are written by Toriyama, but Toyotarou has liberties in saying how they are carried out. It's as Canon as The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi are.
Frieza needs to grow 5 cm before he can deal with the gods.
priorities Masako, priorities
+001 Just ask Commander Red, he knows how this works!
Lets not forget that 18 was almost the first eliminated in the tournament of power, she was about to grt knocked out when Krillin saved her, but they still made Krillin look like a joke when he was first out
Oh man...I DID forget that. Can you imagine the ire if that actually happened?
Future Trunks almost sealed Zamasu, but SOMEBODY had to forget the sealing tag.
God damn it writers!!
it wasn't even supposed to happen. Goku was the one meant to seal Zamasu (and still fail). In fact, if you look at the manga, you start to realise that Toriyama didn't design the structure of the arc to feature Trunks as a relevant character aside from introducing Black to Goku and Vegeta. It was Toei's decision to give him a prominent role as a fighter, even by powering him up to ridiculous levels, which I find very funny since in the end the arc just throws everything we've been fighting for to the trash anyways.
Trunks doing mafuba was the most stupidest thing ever
At least in the manga Goku was to use the mafuba but instead of forgetting the talisman he took the wrong tag
they ruined trunks character, he was my favorite one before the goku black arc
That thumbnail is just... Glorious.
This is a long standing issue with Dragon Ball. It has a history of ripping character development moments away from anyone that isn't Goku. Shame too since db has so many unique and fun characters
True
So true, I love seeing them fight again from time to time, but it feels weightless when there's no development to back it up, if that makes sense.
I agree with you Masako. There are many times where Dragonball Super failed a lot of the Dragon Team. The one that affected me most was Future Trunks not staying in the main timeline and being a big brother to Present Trunks and Bra while having a friendly rivalry with Gohan. I would have liked to see Future Trunks have a kid with Future Mai which would be a good rival for Pan!
That's really good, but it'd be hard to write him into the ToP, or any other arc for that matter. There's too many "main characters" to juggle with Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, and for the ToP Android 17 and Frieza. Trunks would just end up taking Roshi or Piccolo's spotlight and ultimately be disappointing. Unless they wrote him off as "he's from the future so can't participate" but imagine the hate that would get. They already get enough flak for what they did to Buu and Gotenks.
Absolutely agree about Krillin, he had so much potential after finding the no ego powerup, but noooo, they had to make him a joke AGAIN
It was such a nice looking powerup for the Krilldawg too. I wonder what the name would've been if it was a legit power up.
I agree I wish they would have expanded on Krillin’s No Ego Zone potential with its ability to have ki imbued fists. I would have also liked to see Krillin gain a enlightenment transformation based on his status as a monk where he gains a orange aura and the six dots on his head shine where his fighting style embodies a monk enlightened person.
@@alcatrazvongola I would call it Enlightened Monk Martial Artist
@@Eric-gp3hi I can imagine Krillin getting another powerup involving six or eight arms around his body like a Buddha statue or something like that.
+001 That would be cool and it'll serve as a nice contrast with how Tien has his third eye. And then just imagine the fusion!
The end of the Black arc was easily the most infuriating part of Super. The genocidal blue brat can also piss off. Biggest villain in all of Dragon Ball. Also wasn't a fan of how they reduced Gohan to a joke for most of Super.
Dragon ball has failed Tien so many times it doesn't even get mentioned anymore
Honestly this problem started already back in Dragon Ball Z
Also the thing not mentioned here, in the sparring match between Ultimate Gohan and Goku. Gohan heavily implied that he was going to find a new power from his Human side, going a different path than Goku’s Angel route and Vegeta’s God of Destruction route. And then… nothing. We all expected Gohan to get a new form in the Tournament of Power, but nothing happened and he’s stayed mostly irrelevant.
That felt like a bait and switch to me.
We got Gohan Blanco lol
@@incognito4971 there's still the buff thing that roshi did he could learn, he could also try to find a new power with potiental unleashed. or maybe gohan can ask goku to teach him kaioken. so why it is true that gohan doesn't train much, it's unfair for gohan fans to see gohan train for the next threat, only to not have a new transformation or anything.
@@MarcellNoSekai Fax! I was at least waiting on some sort of Potential Unleashed Mach 2 (especially after seeing his 7 Level Dragon Install from Fighters)
GIVE ME MORE YAMCHA THAT ISN'T GAG RELATED!!!!!!😭😭😭😭😭
one day we’re going to have to explain why Super Dragon Ball Heroes & Dragon Ball Super Super Hero are 2 completely separate things with almost identical titles, which wouldn’t make any logical sense to anyone outside the DB community
How much different do you think Dragon Ball would've been if Toriyama wasn't that much into gags and was more into storytelling?
+001 Basically if Dragonball was more like Chrono Trigger or even more like the Dragon Quest series essentially.
......yep.
It would be an actual story with progression...
Or maybe a balance of gags and good storytelling
It would have ended after the first storyline in the beginning, like he originally intended.
@@bulbasaur15 those examples make zero sense.
Frost is even a joke in DB Legends, where he somehow loses to Form 1 DBZ Frieza. (The power scaling in that game makes no sense sometimes).
Shoutouts to Bardock in that game.
I am against overcensorship in any form of media (boobs make us healthy, deal with it) but I am proud that Roshi graduated from being a coomer. It only took him over 100 years
any censorship is bad look what its led to in the west why do you think anime is so popular its because all our stories are trash and over censored dragon ball super is a perfect example its not a great show its not awful but not great in any way. People love it cuz everything else is garbage tier now so anime even its mediocre stuff is way better because of the creative freedom they have
Hard disagree that Japan needs to change anime to appeal to the rest of the world, that's colonizer thinking
Most people like anime BECAUSE it's different
Agreed. I would rather read a fan translation of a manga or watch fan subs of an anime unreleased outside of Japan than to see an author forced to cater to the whims of people who will never run out of things to complain about for the sake of a western release.
I've seen enough drama over series like Uzaki-chan, Nagatoro, and MHA to ever think that trying to appease the rest of the world would be worthwhile.
@@mgskid Seconds, really don't like the idea of one or more country telling another country what it can or can't do.
I would hope most people don't like anime specifically because of sexual harassment.
colonizer thinking is a bit far
They can do what they want, sure... but if they want to survive and keep getting serialized (spoilers, they do) than they know that there are consequences for actions. Not sure how this is a hot take.
With respect to Future Trunks, I can even accept the "bad future" ending, with Xeno having to erase it *if* it had been used to bring Future Trunks, Future Mai, Future Bulma, and a few other survivors to our timeline as refugees.
Feel like getting another What If from Supers' shortcomings? Do a "downer" ending correctly, while reinforcing the danger a rogue god abusing wishes can do, and how important Xeno actually is. Plus, double Bulma!
Exactly, having a real consequence and permanent characters to play around with, instead of deus ex machina's on top of deus ex machinas.
Zamasu winning was actually important. Every single DB story ended with the good guys winning and everything going back to normal. It's too predictable so this time it was different. It created the uncertainty in the story's outcome that it really needed.
yea but it was executed so poorly
But the good guys did win, and everything went back to normal. It was just more contrived than usual.
The Krillin one infuriated me the most. They gave him an arc to rekindle his love for martial art, just to make a joke out of him later on.
Agree with all of them aside from the Grand Priest one not sure that was really bait and switch. Fans theorized about it so much without barely any signs of it
13:09 Masako finally brings up the El Grande Padre meme!
I know there are many you could have included with a longer list, but the failure to revive Cell seems like one. I know, I know: Cell is too time consuming to draw... if only it was established that Cell's physical appearance could radically change as he grew in power. Toriyama could literally drop the spots from Cell, keeping everything else the same, and call it a power up a la Super Saiyan saving him from having to ink in Saiyan hair!
tbh i feel like frieza was the much better pick only because of frieza and his capabilities and him being stronger than cell.
Then what they would have to do with cell I'm sure he wouldn't have much interest in redeeming himself atleast freeza could work as a better plot device if he wouldn't have to fight directly with our characters like in dbs:broly and now in the granolah arc so imo freeza is a much better choice narratively though I think it could have been better if resurrection f didnt exist
Dragon ball is one of those series where the creators aren't afraid of letting their fans down
Super should have left 17 out and used Yamcha. Just say he did secret training too and used it to be more defensive since everyone else goes offensive. That way he could have the energy shield. 18 still could have saved him by saying he coached Krillin all throguhout their relationship so she'd be very endeared to him. Make Yamcha great again basically and give him SOME redemption. Can you imaigne Yamcha as the joke he is but then being the one to save ALL the universes? There, redemption done and joke gone.
I think Yamcha should replace Master Roshi instead since it would make sense for him to be stronger than Master Roshi.
@@blacksmoke6292 That would be good too but it's more emotional and character saving if he takes 17's spot.
@@TerryB01 eh, I dunno man. 17 would've been a lot useful than Yamcha, even if Yamcha was a badass type character.
I disagree, Yamcha should have replaced tien. I actually really liked 17’s inclusion.
@@blacksmoke6292 That's why I said Yamcha learned the energy shield move.
This is why you dont write week to week, things quickly get messy and a sustained story falters
I'm gonna be honest, this idea of the grand priest and angels were plotting something against Zeno, I have no idea where people got this idea from. As far as I remember, something like that was never even implied. It kind of seems like fans got an idea in their head, decided it was canon, and are now mad that it's not.
All bc they made the grand priest and some of the angels look creepy in some shots lol
I think it would have been cool if Roshi did pass away and Krillin succeeded Master Roshi as head of the Turtle School as well as spurring on Gohan to research his maternal side of his family as it is said that Chi-Chi is the grandneice of Roshi adding backstory and depth to the Son Goku family.
man, this series has so much, like, net 0 character progression, which is honestly more frustrating than no character progression. it's like teasing you with the idea of a character changing and growing and then snapping back to their prior status.
it feels like they're too afraid to have characters progress at all, because if their personalities change even a bit then everyone will stop watching the series.
Toei didn’t make enough of an effort to maintain character continuity between episodes. Being a collaborative project, it takes just one inattentive member of the writing team to botch and undo what effort has been made to progress the characters
@@welshlout3400 from what I understand at this point is that it's mostly just Toyotarou writing and Toriyama supervising, so I'm not sure if that excuse really fits. and either way, even if there were more writers working under them them it's their responsibility to make sure the story is at least _somewhat_ cohesive.
from where I'm standing it really seems more like the decisions to never progress the characters too far from the baseline is deliberate.
@@darkychao If we’re talking about the manga exclusively it obviously doesn’t add up. Like you say, that’s basically a solo operation and Toei has no involvement there.
I guess I assumed you were talking about the anime series when you said “watching the series”. In which case, yeah, that’s the problem. Multiple writers.
The issue isn't just in the writers... it's in the setting, a midquel set before the end of Z...
This alone murders 70% of the stakes and actual development of characters... then there's also the fixation in maintaining the status quo...
@@darkychao nah it’s toeis fault
Toyo and tori did nothing in the sine they mainly work on the manga and there the characters do get progression
Vegeta deserves to demolish and annihilate Frieza after everything he put him through growing up. Super is destroying the characters, most of them just feel so regressed and don't get me started on the blatant overuse of Frieza.
My response to the title: ONLY 10?!
Screw the tournament, I wanted to see what the kids were doing on 17's island
anything to cut away from that damn void of nothingness for a second
I actually liked the green colour sky of the other world tournament with pikkon better then the dull look of the void realm
They have that in Dokkan Battle
The super saipan blue + kaioken consequence thing. Goku had only a small chance of even surviving the attempt of that technique. I remember the filler episode after the universe 6 tournament where goku was feeling the effects of using it. I thought it was interesting to see consequences to Gokus reckless pursuit to get stronger and wondered what kind of effects this would have on the narrative going forward. Maybe progression won't be so linear this time around. Maybe they'll have to find different ways to get stronger other than raising their power level. Of course everything was fine and was using kaioken blue left and right in the next arc.
It felt so good to see that. I even made a meme but then they spoiled it after with drawbacks
Goku using SSB Kaio-Ken against Hit: not only does Goku suffer the typical muscle strain of the kaio-ken, but his ki is irreversibly impaired for a while afterward to the point where he can’t even fly right
Goku using SSB Kaio-Ken against anyone after that: consequences schmonsequences
I was pretty forgiving about most of these but I draw the line at Infinite Zamasu. Had to agree with you: Trunks was wronged here.
Worst part was they kept just making it worse. What with sending Trunks and Mai back to a point where other versions of them already exist.
They could have used the ending of the Black saga to introduce Trunks as time patroller Trunks. Could have been a nice touch, Whis sending him to work with the Supreme Kai of Time due to him being a person displaced in time and space. Would be a cool nod to DBH and Xenoverse.
I hate how Tenshinhan is basically given nothing to do. The guy is the one human who never stopped training, was all about self improvement, who was determined to somehow compete with the Sayians and Namekians . . . and he's shown being a terrible teacher who evil Roshi can just slap aside.
Why not have Tien come back having figured out the Kaioken, how to get a bigger boost while having less of a strain on the body. Why not have him combine the Kaioken and Kikoho to create the raw power to make his signature technique even more devastating? Why not remember all the techniques he had in Dragon Ball , maybe have some new ones thrown in? Why not have him actually focus on becoming more skilled and technical focused so he can compete with stronger opponents by being a superior martial artist? Why not remember he's psychic? So much potential, so little payoff.
Toriyama likes gags more than character growth, remember?
I never actually believed the GOP was going to become evil.
Mostly because...well...what do you do then? The stronger fighters in the tournament wouldn't be anywhere near as strong as Whis, let alone the GP. How could the heroes win when faced against someone like that?
6:41 I actually... didnt even realize that was a power up. I thought it was just a visual thing lol
Pretty sure frizea changed his mind mid tournament or his plans to undermine the gods required the wish from the super dragon balls which he couldn't get so he went back to his usual routine.
frieza could gather them now, though if he got one of those universe-traversing cube things. and a radar ig
@@tiablue9106 But he has no idea where to get one and they're usually around gods of destruction and angels not to mention how is he gonna move and take the planet size dragon balls with him to other universes?
Finally someone else talks about Nigrishi, one of the characters I was most excited to see in the tournament and he did nothing
Facts..although I would have loved Bergamo to get more shine too as well as the bird guy roshi fought. I would have liked if all the universes has at least one guy that was top teir..like a serious threat to even goku and vegeta
@@darrellsimon4462 fully agreed. And in reality those types of characters were only present in universes 6 and 11 all the other universes were weak, universe 3 had to fuse 5 characters to be an actual threat to a weakened goku and vegeta 😂
Frost was in the anime at the end of the ToP when everyone was happy they got revived. No clue about the manga
If I remember correctly Frost was never deleted mid tournament in the manga so no problems there
As it’s already been shown with manga completely dominating the graphic novel sales charts. Never change your already established franchise for foreign audiences cause all that does is drive away your existing fans and not gain new ones.
The fact that Android 18 kicked away Super Saiyan Blue Goku's Kamehameha was stupid.
I thought it was confirmed that she kicked his hand away, thus negating it.
@@_XVIII_ I thought Goku was obviously holding back. I mean, even Krillin was pushing it back, for a moment.
@@blacksmoke6292 Either way, 18 stopping it makes sense.
Dragon Ball Super ruined Future Trunks when they dyed his hair blue and slimmed him down.
OH yeah, the way that Krillin was treated in the tournament just infuriated me. Krillin has always been shown to be VERY smart, sly, and a clever tactician.
Remember, it was Krillin who figured out the details to get the team to Namek, and has consistently seen things clearly that all the others missed. Seeing him taken out by a cheap shot from Frost like that just pissed me off.
But as for the idea of a plot against Zeno by the Grand Priest and the Angels... I never saw any kind of hint of that ANYWHERE. And I am always seriously baffled as to where this idea came from every time I see it mentioned on the Internet... there wasn't the tiniest hint of this idea ANYWHERE in ANY of the Dragon Ball Super that I watched; maybe I was just watching a different show than everyone else? So this idea that there was some kind of bait and switch or big letdown from the story not following up on its hints of "the Grand Priest's sinister plot against Zeno" is just something I just can't even comprehend, because i never saw the slightest evidence of the idea in the first place.
Could ANYONE out there point out just which episodes they believed contained hints pointing to the GP plotting against Zeno? Because otherwise I'm going to stick with my current conclusion... that the whole idea was all just a load of fanfiction fever dreams that some Internet fans came up with on their own, and convinced themselves (and almost everyone else, apparently) that they had actually seen some kind of evidence for it in the show. Because I didn't see squat.
The only reason ppl made that theory was bc of the grand priest and a couple angels looking all ominous in some shots lol or like they had investment in the universe erasure than just bc the zenos wanted to do it. Also ig some ppl thought the grand priest seems like he’s putting on a happy face (for the zenos). But yeah, the theory was based on little to nothing and idk why so many fans expected some big coup-guess they connected it to frieza’s planned coup considering the angels were the only others in place to pull that off. Now it just kinda makes u wonder why they kept making the grand priest look creepy
@@tiablue9106 OK, thanks! I GUESS that must explain it, even though I never noticed anything that lead me to believe there was anything sinister going on with the angels.
My guess is that the ominous looking shots were just a way to make the Grand Priest seem like he was a really big important person in a position of power, and the way to do that in Japanese culture is to portray them as cool, mysterious, and maybe even slightly sinister at first.
Remember how Shin/Supreme Kai was initially portrayed back when he first appeared at the beginning of the 25th World Martial Arts Tournament? With narrowed eyes like he was hiding something, and just generally coming off with a slightly sinister vibe? Of course, it didn't take all that long for Shin to switch to being all wide-eyed and awed at the sheer power of mere mortal Saiyans, but up until that point he acted all all narrow-eyed and inscrutable.
That was the same thing they were trying to go for with the Grand Priest, and I recognized what they were going for immediately as the same kind of Japanese cultural short hand, but I guess it just SAILED STRAIGHT OVER the collective head of online Dragon Ball fandom?? You would THINK that most Dragon Ball fans would've recognized such a Japanese cultural trope, being people who SHOULD have a pretty good grasp of Japanese cultural storytelling signs that show up a lot in anime... but I guess I was mistaken and they just didn't get it?
Ok that Thumbnail is plain Hilarious!
my man masako is posting more in a week than expected
you absolute madlad
"A ghost, a turd, in the wind" cue venom 2 trailer
As much as I like Super, they dropped the ball hard with these decisions: The Pilaf Gang's rushed redemption (and it doesn't help that Mai is developing feelings for kid Trunks because her future self is with Future Trunks) and Goku forgetting the Urn Seal.
Fun fact: Yamcha has never fought in Dragon Ball Super.
He fought in the moro arc
He's Yamcha.
EVERYDAY, HE IS FIGHTING.
He smacks Beerus in the back at the beginning of super
In the anime anyway.
In dbz yamcha has lost every battle he has been in that is canon
Let's take a moment to realize how 8 points out of 10 were due to the anime having to create ton of filler because Toriyama gave the team jackshit to work with...
"And most of the time, the Japanese carry on regardless despite the world actually telling them to, you know, not do that!"
And I love 'em for it. When it's just entertainment.
I disagree with the Roshi point. He didn't go through the same 'training' as in the anime and the Moro Arc was written by Toyotaro himself, not the anime studio. Kind of weird to expect a different canon to include something from a completely different canon.
Watch them still do it though when it's animated.
@@JKurayami
Then it would be valid, but as of now it doesn't really make sense as a complaint.
@@theflyingace611 I agree with you. I am just not optimistic.
You covered many reasons why I don’t care for Super beyond you.
Not just Future Trunk and Mai but ALL of their timeline got screwed so badly.
Id prefer is Roshi stayed an old perv. Better then him changing and then reverting.
Thank you masakox for making me angry at moments that I blocked from my memory
At least you CAN block them from your memory.
The thing about Argentina and Muten Roshi was stupid, bending over to the moral guardians is NEVER a good idea.
MasakoX: "Freeza's opportunity to bring down the Gods"
Me: *THANK* *YOU*
yeah, frieza should honestly be looking for the super dragon balls rn. I always thought it was dangerous having those around and goku black is proof of that; imo they should either get rid of them or show off their potential more. I mean they're dragon balls with ZERO limits
Dragon Ball Super let Frieza down when he got revived, again.
I think it's arrogant to tell Japan that their products that they made needs to change to meet the global demands.
It doesn't come from a place of arrogance. It's more to do with being aware of foreign markets and that they exist and how it can lead to better audience response. For example, in the Broly movie, the chanting was a tribute to the Mexican audience who watched the last two Super episodes in their droves. That's cool
@@MasakoX it's fine asking for things. But claiming it as a mistake or an issue is to me arrogant. I agree with you with the desire to see the change, but I won't say they failed for not meeting my standard when that standard is a cultural one.
Hey Masako, can we call these moments, "bait and slap" moments?
Seriously, it is so much a trend in dbs, that it deserves its own trope.
Toyotaros interpretation of caulifla was an absolute character assassination. He left all of her flaws and removed all the good traits she had. One of the main reasons why I hated his version on the ToP arc
What were her good traits to you? 🤔
@@josephbriggs2257 I'm quite curious as well.
@@josephbriggs2257 toyotaro turned her from a genius into a mook for one, destroyed her relationship with kale, got rid of the mentor dynamic between Goku and caulifla, and then made her out to be some kind of asshole. Also she's a complete weakling in the manga which again destroys a major part of her character.
@@wolvekrome2475
I see. I always just thought Caulifla’s anime variant could easily work by itself, but just not in the ToP’s setting, which is the real issue a lot of people have. The situation is too, well, “serious” for someone like her, Ribrianne, and even Jiren to actually work well.
I kind of just wish we got introduced to her via Vegeta going to Sadala and letting Goku tag along for funsies.
Kale was pretty coolin the Manga though
Funny, you loved episode 89 in your episode reviews and didn't mention that it made you uncomfortable at the time. Are we sure we aren't looking back with modern eyes and assuming our current views are the same as what they were?
Its not like dragon ball abridged fit in with 2021 political correctness to the point tfs winsed at old jokes they made just a few years ago.
They are cartoon characters, roshi is fine.
Dragon Ball Evolution let the Dragon Ball franchise down.
People don't like Roshi because of his perv antics; they like him IN SPIDE of that. So I don't know why they're so adamant to let that problematic aspect of his character go.
His inclusion in the TOP was great! It showed that you're never too old to improve yourself, that experience goes a long way, and that even masters can continue to learn. I wish this new Roshi had stuck around...
Tien throughout the entirety of the Tournament of Power.
or just super
By far the biggest for me was the build up to a plot of the angels and GP. The zoom in on a smile of an angel when it's own universe gets erased from existence, the looks from the GP, it all felt so important and I was so ready for a huge twist that all of the angels, even Weiss, were about to do something to overthrow Zeno and the survivors from Universe 7 and any not erased yet were going to have to do something, maybe get whisked away to train and plot together against an unstoppable force...it could have been something great.
How about the bait and nothing of the universes not included in the tournament because they were "too powerful"?
I'm pretty sure the 4 universes that didn't compete were only written to do so bc the writers realized 120 fighters would be a bit too many for them and wanted to cut it down lol
@@tiablue9106 By that logic it was already far too many. It is a good hook that there are universes out there with fighters powerful enough that it would not even be a challenge, but knowing that Goku (especially these days) has NEVER brought up that he would like to meet these incredibly powerful fighters? Everything about the other universes (not just the missing 4) feels like a series of missed opportunities.
@@TheIncarnadine042 well goku always keeps training to prepare for fighting stronger folks, but it is strange he seems content to stay in U7 unless necessary bc he's already like the top mortal in his universe. and considering the series has yet to have vegeta visit planet sadala over 90 eps after he planned to, I doubt we're gonna see much of the other universes too soon lol
I like how most of these, (with exceptions like the trunks thing that happened in both versions) happen in the anime and not the manga. Toei, you little pricks!
Krillin and Buu's useless powerups got to me.
WHAT HAPPENED TO TURLES WHAT IF?
I believe Nigrishi was eliminated by complete accident through behind the scenes miscommunication. My reasoning is in his design being shark-like, while the ultimate fusion of his universe Anylaza had a hammerhead-like design. He had too much attention brought to him to have been a nobody.
Kinda sad that he got basically accidentally knocked out by cabba
So because Dragon Ball, a franchise that you love, has gained prominence on a global scale Toei should begin catering to the tastes of people outside of Japan? If that were to happen Dragon Ball would no longer be Dragon Ball, and I'm shocked to hear you insinuate that it should be.
Bro when he started talking like that it took me aback
for me, the biggest disappointment is that the two Zenos thing didn't go anywhere
Dragon Ball Super has took the character development from Z and put it through a meat grinder. Vegeta got it the worst in my opinion. Same for the rest of the Z crew
We needed Golden Frost (or Silver Frost) (or Platinum Frost)
For me, it was the entirety of the Tournament of Power. I absolutely despise that arc. To me, it pretty much represents everything I hate about the DB franchise: flashy fights with no plot or character development behind them. Most arcs have decent plots and plenty of good characters, but the ToP was litterally just all flash/no substance. It just sucks. If I wanna just watch a bunch of mindless action with nothing behind it, I'll just watch one of the millions of DBZ AMVs out there.
Dude you did not watch the top at all if you think no character development was made
Roshi learning that his age doesn’t mean he can’t keep improving
Frieza and goku learning to trust eachother
Jiren learning that true strength comes from those around you
Vegeta proving he doesn’t need to copy goku to improve
Vegeta teaching toppo that throwing your ideals away isn’t how power should be gained
The gods learning to respect mortals
Top has a lot of problem but being flashy with no substance isn’t it, that’s the problem with the z movies
Gohan certainly had a lot of build up in Super that amounted to basically nothing. He got some cool moments for sure but no defining ultimate moment that could rival him beating Cell.
I know he tied with Kefla in the manga, but really came out of nowhere and mostly diminished Kefla's power along with all the other universe teams she'd beaten at that point (the manga did have a habit of making several characters look weaker than their anime counterparts).
Wel that’s because gohan was never gonna make a god tier action
Him somehow performing an action like a ssjb would basically just make more people cry about powerscaling
I think that these bait and switches are a sign of one of dbs worst issues: baiting people for something nice, then never deliver it...
Every time I remember what super did to Frost I get angry. Seriously what was even the point of Frost? It feels that he was created to appease the Vegeta fans since he didn't get the victory against Frieza. They could have done something interesting with golden Frieza vs golden Frost (or any other colour idc) and prior to the his elimination he was actually doing fine but instead they had to make him even more of a joke.
10:48 Nice reference to The Venom Movie!
You left out Goten and Trunks just like they were left out of all Dragon Ball Super
Nah, the most frustrating moment was my boy Katopesla not getting longer screen time to shine and show his moves, he was refreshing to see in the tournament to be honest
I agree 100%
I kinda wanted more from bergamo
The bait and no pay off of the Angels having some nefarious plan during the Tournament of Power was so sad. ):
Don't forget how Universe 2 had a Yardrat (Jimizu) and a Tuffle (Zarbuto) in the team and they never explained how. Even in the Moro arc when we saw Yardrats again it was neven even mentioned.
Trunks, bursting through the wall: This was a trap! This entire series, the movies, they were all used to boost Goku and Vegeta's power and its gap from everyone else!
- Universe 4 mysterious fighters were extremely underwhelming as well...the God Rat was the only god so confident during episode 109 (goku vs Jiren) that for a second I thought that they could surprise us with universe 4 being the real treat.
- They should have given Piccolo and the namekians from universe 6 some extra moments of respect and connection and then, in the end, when they realized that they were the only ones left from their universe and that they wouldn't be a match for the rest of the fighters, they could ask Piccolo yo fuse with him so they the universe 6 namakeians legacy wouldn't desapear forever..that way they witheir legacy would survive through Piccolo...Can you imagine Piccolo's power boost with that? They could easily put Piccolo at the level of UI omen or at least Kalifla...Plus would be a perfect excuse to give Piccolo a intense power boost
10:24 thanks for the idea, Masako 😏😏😏
Cool! If you want to make it, go for it!
I still don't get why they didn't just keep Future Trunks and Mai in the main timeline. Like if you need to explain why they aren't around all the time or at the Uub Tournament, just have them like Join the galactic patrol, or put him in universe 6 to help train those saiyan, or have him hang out with his uncle Tarble or anything excuse you need to only bring him in when necessary. I think people would have been more okay with Trunks's timeline being erased if it meant that he'd get to join the main cast.
0:20 i already know one immediately.....Majin Buu in the ToP.
10:50 and there it is!
I know a lot of fans would disagree with me, but if the manga was allowed to go ahead of the anime from the get go and the series just fully adapted the stories, art style, and brutality of the manga (with some filler of course) then I think Super would’ve been better received than it was. Yes, the manga has issues (now more than ever), but the manga didn’t waste our time retelling the movies and feels more consistent with the original series. The anime could always flesh things out more, so any problems in the manga could’ve been further explored in the anime. Just an idea.
Tournament Of Power was the reason I grew a disdain for The Saiyans (mainly Goku, Kale, and Caulifla)
Vegeta
Tien needs more love!