Terraforming Mars - Shut Up & Sit Down Review
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- Опубліковано 29 лис 2024
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What I love about terraforming mars is that the terraforming is secondary to the money making schemes. These are megacorps who's in this to make money - not make greenery
Fair point but then they shouldn't have called it "Terraforming" Mars. For me and many in my group it's a dud. It doesn't feel like you're terraforming a planet at all.
@@jacktorrance3522 I agree, it seems fun, but it’s not at all what I was expecting and It’s also not what I wanted out of it, so I’m bummed.
This is one of the most disfunctional and broken games ever to hit the market. Zero strategy with this hilariously unbalanced game. No thanks. I dumped my copy.
This is one of the most disfunctional and broken games ever to hit the market. Zero strategy with this hilariously unbalanced game. No thanks. I dumped my copy.
This is one of the most disfunctional and broken games ever to hit the market. Zero strategy with this hilariously unbalanced game. No thanks. I dumped my copy.
I have no idea why "What's for dinner, mum? CUUUUUUUUUUUUBES" cracks me up as much as it does.
HOly fuck bud i scrolled down just to say this after i drank 13 shots of tequila and ended up on my floor laughing my ass of seeing that bit. Funniest shit ive seen all year, ill check in tomorrow to see if its as funny sober.
Any time I see a new game that involves cube collection this line is all i can think about
Still waiting on this follow up, 3 years later.
4:07
"You're fired"
"That's reasonable"
😂
Quinns' favourite economy-fiddling games:
Brass - www.shutupandsitdown.com/games/brass/
Caverna - www.shutupandsitdown.com/games/caverna-cave-farmers/
Concordia - www.shutupandsitdown.com/games/concordia/
Dungeon Petz - www.shutupandsitdown.com/games/dungeon-petz/
Food Chain Magnate - www.shutupandsitdown.com/games/food-chain-magnate/
Great Western Trail - www.shutupandsitdown.com/games/great-western-trail/
Istanbul - www.shutupandsitdown.com/games/istanbul-2/
Keyflower - www.shutupandsitdown.com/games/keyflower/
Lancaster - www.shutupandsitdown.com/games/lancaster/
Terra Mystica - www.shutupandsitdown.com/games/terra-mystica/
Troyes - www.shutupandsitdown.com/games/troyes/
Tzolk'in - www.shutupandsitdown.com/games/tzolkin-the-mayan-calendar/
Village - www.shutupandsitdown.com/games/village/
Vinhos Deluxe - www.shutupandsitdown.com/games/vinhos-deluxe-edition/
Really, Brass makes the list? I figured after that review the game designers would have banned Quinns from ever playing it again.
You guys need to do a video review of keyflower with both of the expansions! 😎
No Archipelago?
Brass got tons of praise in their review, they just stated that if you don't like games where you spend most of the game just staring at the board trying to come up with the most efficent actions you're not going to like Brass, and to be honest I think that is valid "critique" of the game and it's niche appeal is a good reason why you might not recommend it to everyone.
This is all coming from someone who loves Brass and bought it because of, in my opinion, their praise of it in their review.
It's not the most streamlined or thematically exciting game out there, but if you like yourself a heavy economic game , boy you're in for a real treat, and IMO, that was the take home message from their review.
Visa mindre
Yes to Archipelago! I just forgot about it. - Quinns
"In fact I don't think calculating efficiency is even on the party scale."
This is why I love you guys. The great analysis too.
It should be on the party scale, because my rounds of pandemic legacy is all about calculating the EXACT ACTION we can end the game on. And how we can move that ever closer to the action we're currently executing. We're 5 people playing a 4 person game, as well. And trust me, everyone around that table treats that like a party.
You've never been to one of my parties, obviously.
Pah! Of course calculating efficiency is on every good party scale! But I’ll tell you what isn’t, partying is not on any efficiency scale! /Eric Nofun, Spreadsheet Specialist and licensed accountant.
When I first watched this review, my first thought was "Nah. Pass. Not for me. ESPECIALLY with all the math involved." Just played it yesterday, and I'm VERY grateful to be proven wrong! This was a FANTASTIC resource building game! One of the best Ive played!
Yeah, I agree. I love SUSD, but I often find that their analysis of games often sits wide of the mark with my game preferences. Oh, well each to their own!
@Emsworth377 I agree! A lot of gamers nowadays have been saying "build your collection for YOU, not for other people" and I see now what they mean. Boardgame influencers and UA-camrs are just giving their opinions and its easy to forget that their videos are based on THEIR taste which is no more or less valid than your taste.
From this day forth, every time I teach this game, I will make sure to use the phrase "you've got your Mars, and you've got your Mars bars"
Love you guys!
I don't agree with the comments about no interaction though. In our last game, one guy repeatedly played cards against me, stealing my plants and heat and lowering my power. I gained the ability to block him, but waited to play it until the crucial moment when I had just played a card to give me enough plants to play a chain of cards that would give me the game - he then tried to steal them, realised I had blocked him, and I went on to win. With one of those "In your face!" / "Damn, nice move!" moments that make board games so much better than video games.
Also, don't really agree about the board being a lesser feature - if you play it correctly (which you guys noted you didn't) and actually do terraform (i.e. moving the oxygen and heat), then you are constantly checking to see if you can still play ability X or if the heat is too high, or if the oxygen is too low, or if there aren't yet enough oceans - giving friendly game play suggestions to your fellow players to just, you know, pop down an ocean, and then "bam!" - I've got a swamp and stolen all that precious forest they wanted mwhaha ahem, anyway.
Finally - the solo game - is fantastic. I play solo a fair bit, and this game just keeps calling me back. I've beaten it a few times, but you have to really plan out your strategy - combined with a bit of luck - and its far more "crossword" than "Sudoku" in that mode, and fast paced, which appeals.
But thanks for the review, and I look forward to the next!
I think I've had the exact opposite opinion of SUSD on every single one of their videos. Just goes to show how varied people's tastes are in the hobby. Either way, thanks for the video and your insight!
I always get surprised by the people who get upset when SU&SD does a "negative" review of a game they love. SU&SD doesn't do "negative" reviews. If a game is bad they don't even give it the honor of being reviewed. The games they do review are a mixture of "yeah it's good and you might like it but...", "You'll probably like this game no matter who you are.", And "OMG go buy this game NOW!".
They do *occasionally* do predominantly negative reviews, but like, not more than a handful, probably
It's not aboute love. Ir's aboute screw that game. Look on movie ...they reach 12 round whant is never happen in normal game. 6..7 round abd is finished...so review is done because they screw the game and if I will play other games wrong the game will porly satysfactionate players it so simple. I love the guys is well but that no matter to that they do bad review.
@@krzysztofwisniewski6565 They were playing with only 2 players so 12 rounds is not unlikely. This review definitely falls in the "yeah, it's good and you might like it but..." category. They literally say it's a good game at the end of the review, but it's not in their top 20 eurogames.
Glad they got a review out for it. The guys make great points. My friends and I really enjoyed it, though, despite the quirks. I think SUSD might be understating the tile placement on the map and are over-focused on the sideboard. There were plenty of turns where I got burned on putting something out on the map because I was thinking I'd have another turn or two of actions. They don't get into this, but increasing the terraforming levels also sometimes grants bonuses to your engine. So, the extra layer of timing and competition also forced me to look away from the card engine and look to see where my opponents were.
Exactly. And thats without mentionning the absolute rollover of points you can get on the map by getting fucky with forests and cities. I once managed to make this insane circle of cities and forests that gave the mathematical biggest amount of points and by the end of the game, i had rocketed over everyone that mainly focused on other stuff because no one stopped me.
And thats without mentionning the friggin wild-west style showdowns where nobody wants to up the heat because the guy right after will steal that free water which doubles how much economy he would have gained.
Everything affects everything else in that game which is really nice. Honeslty my biggest complain is there aint enough cards like the meteor that affect other players.
Matt ahead of his time with that face mask!
And that scolding of Quinns for not wearing one... Spot on
Your mileage may vary. Terraforming Mars is my gaming group's new favorite game; we can't get enough of it. The theme is great, there's a decent amount of interaction (for a euro game), and it's simple to pick up but has an awful lot of strategy. It's one of those games where you don't get bored waiting for everyone else to take their turns, because you're so busy trying to figure out the perfect thing to do on your own turn. The game is very replayable, with a lot of paths to follow, and you'll probably end up using a different strategy every time. It's the perfect game for anybody who likes engine building, micro-management, and games that don't have a single 'best approach'...and people who think Mars is cool. :)
Best of all, it's a really well balanced game. Every time we play, our final scores end up within a few points of one another at most, even when we've all been doing radically different things. This adds a lot of tension to the game, because you know you need to make the perfect moves, or one wasted opportunity for a point could cost you the win.
PS: The drafting variant is essential. Also, I don't believe I've ever played Terraforming Mars with less than 4 people, so I can't speak to how well it holds up for 2 or 3.
Agreed, except for the drafting being essential. I very much prefer the "get what you get" game, making the best out of whatever you get. Luck of the draw has a far lesser impact than many are reporting. After about 30 games played, I've seen all sorts of card draws win and be competitive.
Drafting is the wafer to go. You get to mess with the other players actions. great fun. 3-4 players it the best.
I've played about 5 times with just two players and it's a very different game - because the number of generations will be much more, the value of long-term cards change - but we've enjoyed it every time. I wouldn't recommend for two unless you both have a good understanding of the game, though.
Played my first game today - admittedly the non draft variant. Still, we were all within ten points of each other. I was the newbie, while it was one of the favourite game of two other players. They know the cards. And yet I ended up in front of one of them. Textbooks example of what SuSd criticize as lack of meaningful decisions.
This reminds me of Lors of Waterdeep. The game is easily digestible, sure. But When there’s no room for mistakes in a game, there is no challenge and therefore no reward.
I had a feeling that I was just doing maths while playing too, without making pivotal strategic decisions
until....
I played with the draft mode variant, which for me, this thing changed so greatly the game for better, and was kind of a relieve, since I'm very into physics and science, so it would be a shame if I didn't find my taste in this game.
Wait the drafting is a variant? I thought that was the only way to play. /s
In all seriousness, I have never playing the game without drafting, I have no idea why you wouldn't draft.
@@Nukestarmaster The non drafting is meant for newer players who don't yet understand the cards but after and after one or two games the drafting variant becomes way faster bacouse people more or less know wich cards will benefit their strategy without reading every single card
Now I get why they didn't like much the game. Draft elevates the game A TON.
I agree that most of the things they complained about is fixed with drafting
" where we're going we dont need colons" & "You've got Mars, and you've got your Mars bars" both cracked me up.
I had forgotten how funny it was when you fired Matt.
"That's reasonable" 😄😂🤣
Wow, that was unexpected. I play the game to this day and still love it. It's easily top 3 for me. While I do enjoy lots of other games it is very rare I would want to play a game more than a several times. But with terraforming mars I cannot get enough.
Just stumbled across your channel, and I'm really lichen this review.
Exquisite
Ha! Good one...
Bruh
You moss be joking.
No swing and a moss on this one
After 2 months I still play this regularly. Everyone's first game always turns out to be 'shit this was bad, i should have done this, what does this symbol mean, how can I...'-fest. But, in your second game you start to realize how competitive things can be: board placement, awards, milestones or simply claiming the limited number of oxygen/temp/water needs you can fulfil.
Personally, I strongly suggest drafting (option of buying 1 or not buying any card each time), the extra cards and if you got a bit more time: all production at 0 except for what your corporation indicates. As for corporations, hand 2-4 out depending on the number of players and allow them to choose which one to keep after they have drafted the first 10 cards (mentioning that they should not overbuy cards if their corp has little money; this makes it a very challenging game).
Hands down this was one of the best reviews i've ever seen. Entertaining *and* highly informational at the same time. Subscribed really hard
I feel sorry for that plant. Its in prison.
This game is a massive hit at home. With 4 of the expansions included, an extended weekend can easily see us doing this game 5 or 6 times, often twice, or three times in a row.
an awful lot of arithmetic? as a mathematician, that's the part I love the most about this game. Also, my play group is formed mostly by other mathematicians so I guess that explains why this is definitely our favorite game
I love you guys. Excellent acting there at the end, Matt!
I feel that you either have a total blast, or it feels like a drag. And that has largely to do with the players you play with: you are going to love it when you play with people that can actually do math, like the theme and don't overthink. It will feel like a drag if the person can't remember rules, takes extreme long turns, and so on. I feel the latter (drag) usually happens when you play without a bit more experienced player and/or people that want to do everything perfect.
fok I have friends with whom I would newer play this particular game... we would be old and exhausted after one game because of analyse paralyse time we would spend together! So Not for everyone. But with rigth Group... a plast!
I'm a big fan of this channel. I recently game across it and have somewhat binged a lot of your stuff which is unusual for me to do with a reviewing channel. The humour throughout is excellent which makes the videos entertaining to watch time after time and I appreciate that you not only mention the flaws of the games but recommend others that do certain things better. It may result in me buying fewer games but the ones I purchase will likely be played time and time again.
"feels like you are doing Sudoku, you do an awful lot of arithmetic." You definitely do a lot of arithmetic in TM. If you are doing arithmetic in Sudoku's you are doing it wrong lol. There is no arithmetic involved in Sudoku.
They should have said killer sudoku. That turns you into a human calculator.
Ok nerd
Connor Broderick
Player count shouldn't really extend the game all that much, since the planet should get terraformed that much quicker with 4 or 5 engines working towards it instead of 2 or 3. I played the solo variant, which you start a little nerfed (14 credits per turn instead of 20), but 14 turns is a very reasonable time to terraform the entire planet by YOURSELF. The first game we played (4 players) ended by the 9th round.
Board Watch most likely you just have to wait so logging before you get your turn. There Are less turns and the total time may not increase, there just is more time waiting.
Still play it consistently over 4 years later. Drafting makes this game so gr3at and tactical. And the expansion add so much greatness to it.
“Where we’re going, we won’t need colons”
Glad we solved our waste excretion problems in the future.
"If you're not into science, then Mar is a Euro game. Which means it's largely unable to support vibrant life."
Low key best line of 2017.
I wonder how many times they played the game. I must say after my first or second game I would agree with the review mostly! But the more you play the more you get to understand the importance of the game map and think about your positioning aswell as the positioning of the other players - which also increases the level of interactivity. I thinks it's pretty commong with strategy game that the more experienced players play it the game really shifts in the styles and even player focuses. Our group had very similar experince with Terra Mystica!
Terraforming Mars is a game that's become a favorite in Bloomington IL game groups probably because of the interaction. It's very much a race (for the galaxy) for all the different terraforming tracks. You're fighting to get the limited amount of points from heating the planet or oceans or oxygen, etc. I kinda love the interaction of this game, way more than say, a feast for odin, where you are mostly just sniping actions from other players. It has just the right level of aggression with it's race mechanic and the cards that disrupt other player's economies. Had a really hilarious game where everyone just constantly rained nukes and comets and asteroids on my farms. Love the review and perspective, even if I felt it largely missed what I love about it (the interactions between players). The bits about the science stories and abacus counting mechanics are spot on.
In love with that Don't Hug Me,Im Scared shirt,Matt
I just played this for the first time. I like science and I like shaking hands after professionally counting numbers up and down. This worked out excellently.
I got the game almost a year ago, and it's been played more or less every week since then in my local club. Most weeks, the game is played at least twice, sometimes we manage three games in an evening (4-5 hours total). I am up to, I dunno, about 60 multi-player games (and about the same number of solitaire games). Needless to say, I love the game. It's the best thematic euro I have played in years. As players get better at it, there's lots of interaction, and amazingly, the game keeps feeling fresh. There's lots of strategy, and once you know what to look for, it's often easy to see in hindsight what you did wrong. Personally, I love the art, and think it really suits the game to have its own distinctive art style. I shudder to think what the game would have looked like had, say, FFG published it... As for the player mat, we have yet to see a single game ruined by accidentally knocking the cubes about. Not a single game... So, regardless of how I feel about the player mat, in reality it's not much of a problem, as problems come. For me it's a 10/10. I can't wait to play my next 100 games...!
I just discovered your channel and I am impressed at how you manage to explain the general concept of the game, give a clear opinion on how you feel it as well as making me laugh in the same process. I love it !
4 years later and this is still my favorite editing of all the videos
I really enjoy the game. I bought it at Origins Game Fair. I really like science, and algae. :)
It does feel like a multiplayer game of solitaire, perhaps more than other euros. The art on the cards are an odd collection of clip art, fan donated material and some paid work, or at least that is what it seems like. I remind myself that this was a made by a pair of brothers and that allows me to find the artwork endearing. It is very costly, Probably $20 USD more than it should have been but I enjoyed my play through enough that I was happy to support the team.
I do not need every game to be the best game I've ever played. I can understand completely SU&SD not recommending it, however I would suggest that if you can get into a game with a friend, a local game store or something, give it a shot. I think it's well worth your 2-3 hours. Even if you decide not to buy.
The issues with Terraforming Mars remind me a lot of my experience with Stone Age. At first I liked the game, but after a few plays my friends always preferred to play something else. Played it again yesterday as a 2-player game and then it struck me. There's barely any interaction. Everybody is just building his/her own little engine and you only interact by grabbing points/opportunities that someone else wanted.
Personally, I can totally enjoy these games, but most of my friends don't, so it's just not the right game for the group.
Yes, I think interaction is important. Do you have any suggestion, game that has many interaction?
I have the same problem with “Terraforming Mars” that I have with “Race for the Galaxy”: Both are essentially solitaire games with very little actual competitive interaction. In fact, in RftG, there’s virtually none. I very much enjoy good solitaire games, but if a bu ch of friends are over I don’t want yo play a six-hand game of Solitaire. That’s just me. 🤷♂️🙂
One small table bump, game completely ruined.
It has created a nice third-party market for recessed player mats in wood or plastic, though.
So not only you need to pay quite a lot for a game that's basically a board, a bucket of cubes and cards with what looks like public domain picture stock, you need to pay 30-40$ for extra components that should have been in the box.
I fixed that issue with magnets.
Yes, it is annoying: He should have had it made in Germany like his other games - or turn to China like his competitors do. "Made in America" is just a price increase.
That really makes the case for this review, doesn't it. You need to fix this game with magnets.
I think TFM is objectively a pretty solid game, the interaction is there at a high level and you're pretty invested on what your opponents are trying to do like terra mystica or Concordia. At the end I don't get the sense of accomplishing anything in the game like TM or Concordia. It feels like you're going through the motions of making the best of junk being drafted. Like they said, it's good, really solid just not rewarding enough for effort of dotting i's and crossing t's
Prelude + draft variant + dual layer player boards have elevated TM to one of my fav games for me. I love your videos guys, even when I don't fully agree with your points. You make me laugh every time! ❤
All valid criticisms. I still like the game! Asteroid in yer face!
They didn't even mention the drafting variant, which I feel adds a lot to the game play. You see more cards and you have more player interaction as you're potentially taking things from other players.
I agree. You can draw 4, and deice what ones you want to keep. The optional rules are to draw 4, then keep one and pass to the next player.
Drafting let's you hate pick, and you get to pick more cards that suit you and your engine.
My first game we played with the draft , myself and the other new player had no idea what I was looking at and it added almost 90 minutes to the game, making it overstay its welcome. As an avid Netrunner player that enjoys mage knight, ora et labora, and shadowrun crossfire I’m no stranger to this level of complexity, but this caused the game to bounce right off of me.
I think for someones first game it should be without drafting just to get them used to the cards but afterwards I highly recommend drafting. It's also a game that goes by faster the more experienced everyone is (which goes for pretty much every game). I've had 3-4 player games end in an hour but typically average 1 1/2 now.
reminds me of mtg drafts which was always the best ways to play imo
18:04 I had a minor heart attack. My play group has to use little bits of tape below our cubes to ensure things don't get bumped off track because if they do, we legitimately cannot continue due to the uncertainty.
“Why aren’t you wearing a mask" *checks upload date*
2:57 One of my all time favourite SUSD silly lines, right up there with "Six?!"
WOW
A: You guys are so cute
B: Finally a review show that actually does an intelligent review.
Thank You. I'm in with you! :D
It's three years later and that Southern rail joke still works.
You guys are the most charming personalities reviewing games out there. Subscribed.
One small item I disagree with them is that there are a fair number of attack cards in the game that entice you to keep track of what the other player's have on their boards. A card that drains an opponent of plants for instance won't do any good if they don't have any plants on their board to drain. Also with the rewards and milestones you absolutely need to know where you stand relative to the other players in order to gauge when to shoot for a particular one of those goals. Plus timing of climate gains is important, if you raise a gauge at the wrong time you might unintentionally be giving an opponent a chance to get a bonus for hitting one of the key markers. So while you do spend the majority of your time focusing on your own board and cards you absolutely need to pay attention to how you compare to the other players as well.
I do agree with them that the art is so-so. It's not bad, but it's also not great. And I did like the game at two players but I also agree with them that it probably plays best with three because of the increase potential for player interaction.
And on a personal note I definitely like this game better than Race for the Galaxy. Race for the Galaxy is ok but if I had to choose a "headliner" game to play with three people I'd go for Terraforming Mars over that every time. It's just much more fun and thematic in my opinion, Race is to me more of an abstract card game that's just not as much my style.
P.S. Almost forgot, they're 100% right about the danger of the sliding playmats. If I was going to pick one component to change in this game I'd recommend slotted mats to keep things from sliding around accidentally.
*ahem*
God save our lovely Queen!
Queen of Scottland and Eng-
land Wales and Ireland!
She is a lovely catch,
With her many dresses and hats,
Never going to forget you now,
God, you, and Queen.
**Quinns and Matt gets squished**
And now for something different!
I agree with pretty much everything said here. It's a fun game, but as graphics/typography-nerdy as I am, my biggest problem with this game is how obscenely ugly it is, even outside the mismatched art. The surfaces SCREAM powerpoint 2007, the icons are strange and in some cases completely undescriptive, and TIMES NEW ROMAN????
Personally we love the game and yes we use the drafting game. I think the sweet spot is either using the drafting variant or the extra cards, using both does make the game deeper, but with it also increases the time.
Interesting comments about the amount of numbers and concentration on that part - I think that's a lot of min maxing rather than how I play the game.
Good review overall
I love your review, not because you are funny (you are), but because the great analysis of the game and breakdown of what works and doesn't in it.
My god that intro was amazing, and the rest of the vid somehow managed to live up to it.
Fun fact: The money in Terraforming Mars is actually called Megabucks, if that doesn't cause you pain there's something wrong with you.
My son calls the Titanium... Vibranium
I fell hard for Terreforming Mars, but my friend has a lasercut box that elevates it to such a luxurious experience so that's part of why. I've played it once without and it wasn't as fun especially fearing that I would nudge the board and have pieces flying.
I love how you guys don't automatically stamp what everyone else says is a must have game
i once played a game of terraforming mars in which we forgot about the points equalling money rule, so i had like 3 gold per turn and the whole table was amazed at one player making 10 gold per turn
It's a bad mechanic because it's a "rich get richer" problem. Worst mechanic in the game IMO.
"Euros"
Excuse me sir I think you meant MEGACREDITS
Jesse Clark same thing ;)
This review is just peak SU&SD. I love it.
As promulgated by HM The Queen, the new official lyrics of the National Anthem of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland are as follows:
“God save our lovely Queen
Queen of Scotland and England
Wales and Irelands
God, she is a lovely catch
With her many dresses and hats
Never going to forget you now
God, you are and Queen”
5 years playing this game with the wife and friend. Just played 2 games this past weekend.
Extremely articulate review. Loved the Matrix analogy. Thank you.
A few tips for enjoying Terraforming Mars:
After your first game, add in the Corporate Era cards and use the actual corporations instead of the starter ones.
The drafting variant increases the amount of control you have over your strategy and allows for counter-play by hate-drafting. My group won't play without it. (The big downside here is that it adds an extra 30 to 40 minutes to the game.)
Disregard what the box says: TM is a four-player game. If you have any other player count, I recommend playing a different game.
If you try TM and discover you like it, I strongly recommend getting the Prelude expansion. It speeds up the early game by jump-starting everyone's production. (The Hellas/Elysium expansion is also essential for repeat plays.)
This sums up my opinion very well. I was always surprised that this is just an ok game for me, while my friends really loved it.
I'm not saying it is bad, it'a a good game and I will play with my friends if they will invite me, but not need to own my own copy.
But to be honest, will prefer to play Race for the Galaxy for 5-6 times in the same time than TM.
My gal and I love Terraforming Mars but I totally respect SUSD's concerns, and I love that they suggest some alternatives since my girlfriend and I like economic games now that we're trying one for the first time. I like it enough that I bought the Broken Token set for the superior character trays.
I agree. In fact, my own view is probably a bit more negative than theirs. I don't think the game has any value beyond the first or second playthrough. Once you've seen the cards and the surprise and and strategies behind all the cards have been revealed, you're really just automating yourself from turn 1 depending on your draw. You will always want to increase production speed, so you're obviously going for things that increase that early-game, even at the expense of points. Around mid-game, you're going to want synergies to whatever you got in the early-game and tappable cards for extra actions and cards and resources. Late-game, you care most about whatever milestones were activated and point generation. This ease of decision-making is boring.
The almost complete lack of interaction is also really weird, it makes you wonder why you're not just playing it alone (which is actually an option). Like, once in a while you get a card which slightly annoy someone else, and that's about it.
The delayed reaction from Quinn's on the algae cracked me up.
There is one key strategy in this game: get those cards that increase your Me (currency) production. If you dont get lucky enough to get those cards, it will be a frustrating game. I've played it 5 times and used the drafting mechanic 3 times which helped but players were taking the cards that increased currency production.
I've played it 12x as many times as you and you are very, very wrong. :) there is no key strategy. There are about 3-5 core strategies and about 10 complementary ones. And even those play differently every time.
Easily one of the best games ever made. It’s really really good. Every time I play it I marvel at the sheer number of cards and how it all comes together FLAWLESSLY. Simply amazing game.
Easily one of the laziest games ever made. Numbers and numbers and numbers plastered onto cards and papered over with a loose space related theme that gets lost in the inevitable cube counting. Simply average game.
@@imnottellingyoumyname3050 Considering my comment was 5 years ago, I’d agree now that better games have come along since. I still enjoy TM quite a bit but yeah, a game like Ark Nova may have unseated it’s popularity (though I’m still on the fence with Ark Nova…).
So I'm a biology grad student that researches algae. I couldn't get enough of this review. It really connected with me for some reason...
My experience with the game was very confusing. Not that the game itself was confusing, just the experience shifted extremely from liking it, to disliking it, and then back.
When the game started I was excited to try it out, the other players all had really good starting cards that helped them a lot, but I got nothing, so instead of focusing on my productions, I was purely focusing on terraforming mars, which I think is the least interesting part of the game and explains why I wasn't enjoying the game.
After I finally started to get good cards I could play, I had them all in front of me and I was increasing my production and I was having a lot more fun than I was before, even though I was still trying to catch up!
But then I had a great combo of cards I could play and I had them all in front of me, and my production was finally huge and I was so excited because of all the stuff I was about to make...
But then the game was over. Mars was terraformed. All of my production (the only things I cared about in the game) didn't even count towards my ending goal. It was just the stuff on the game board.
No one in my play group actively tried to terraform mars, because that wasn't fun, almost everything that happened to increase the terraform rating simply was a side effect of the cards we were excited to play, and most of those don't even give victory points to help you win...
I think that is a huge weakness in this game.
It feels like they didn't play the game many times to completion, or at least with several players. I'll agree that you rely a lot of the cards that you get or don't get along the game, but the game has a curve of focus shifting from your "board with cubes" towards the Mars surface, where you start building you economy outside of Mars, and in the latter rounds you have to start competing for space in the planet before others. Most of my games end up with more than half the surface covered and LOTS of greenery.
Back when I was watching the review I was completely intimidated by huge tableaus of cards Matt and Quinns had near the end. But now that I finally got to play it.. it's really not that bad. Most green cards are basically just there for the symbols, and the blue cards have one single action which is a) easy to read and b) usually not even a choice, just something to do at some point.
I do finally understand the grief about "table bumping" though. It is literally recommended to take photos of your board each round, since one table bump can easily spell total ruin of a few hours of gameplay time. :(
The blue cards with permanent effects can massively change the game, there's nothing quite so good as playing a card without any cost because your card cost reduction is so high.
Also, maybe this is just me, but I've never had that much of a problem with the table bumping.
Just get custom made overlays or you can even do ones yourself there's not hard if your a bit skillful or got a graphic designer friend ... and the table bumping issue is history
I binged you're videos while developing my own Board game
7:23 i had to pause it on your party chart.
Terrorism and Pet snakes xD
This is still one of my favourite board game reviews. Thank you guys!
Okay, let's get the most important part of this comment out of the way ... WHERE DO I GET ONE OF THOSE "DON'T HUG ME I'M SCARED" SHIRTS???
Secondly, speaking as someone who generally loathes euro games, I really, really like Terraforming Mars. The theme makes sense to me in a way that most euros don't and while I normally would rather chew glass than play a 2-4 hour game, I can spend that time playing TM and not have it phase me. I also don't think the art is that horrible, although the game is definitely overpriced and I'm not sure that all of the expansions coming out are needed just yet. You're also right about the issue with bumping the player mats but I solved that with really expensive acrylic mat holders that have individual sections to keep the cubes in place. I also happen to really like this game in solo mode and I'm not sure if that's a thing with other euros. Maybe this is the game I need to help me look into other euro games and I'll start with Quinn's list, but I'm not holding out hope that I'll need more than one.
When Quinns said he doesn't like the calculating and efficiency I knew it was the game for me.
Even on Mars you will need a colon, Matt. It's a vital part of the body's system for extracting nutrients from food.
Agree with the player mat, no wonder why people pumping lot of overlay. I myself feel it a little bit overprice for the component we get.
The game itself is much like snowball building than engine. The start and the end is really too big for the core game. Thing start to get interesting mid game and it end just before the big bang happen. It's happen to both solo and normal mode. Most of the time, I feel like I really need one more thing to make it a satisfied ending either wining or losing. Which didn't happen with other game.
Adding Prelude solve some of the problem but that piece still missing.
Great review. I almost exclusively enjoy eurogames and I really didn't care for this at all. I think your review gave me more understanding of why so many people seem to love it so much and also gave some nice insights into different ways eurogames can succeed or fail. The part starting around 13:37 was particularly interesting. I think you did a good job of describing the way I feel when I say something like "there aren't many real decisions to be made" (which I've said about this game). But your use of the word "efficiency" is throwing me a bit, I feel like efficiency is an important thing to keep in mind in close to every eurogame (unless the point was just that all it is is calculating the most efficient stuff, and the key word is really "calculating" in which case I agree again). But overall it sounds like I'm pretty much with Paul on this one (and by the way of the fourteen games you list at the end, personally, I'd call seven of them great or amazing, five good, and two I've never played, so overall what I'd call a strong list).
You two should have your own T.V channel, super entertaining can't get enough!
Good lord why? UA-cam is better than TV.
I agree with pretty much all of these points but don't see them as negative as y'all do.
Yeah I have played this game several times and never found a problem with it. And I'm not a Eurogame fan.
That is the point of good review! It tells you things that allows you to make your own desision!
I like some games more than S&P and and some less than S&P but their reviews Are usefull because They tend to handle the game at very different angles!
The pronunciation of 'Euro's' is really triggering me :(
15:50 "In fact, I don't even think calculating efficiency is ON the party scale." 😝
Good balanced review for a game I like but am yet to love.
Mars Bars however is one of your finest moments #dothmycap
A few times a year, "Real algee in your areas now," enters my brain.
"Once I've had my chloro-fill of it" ahahahahahahahaha
....you're fired.
@@GameInDorf That's reasonable.
good to hear a dissenting view but I think susd are dead wrong; I don't know who they're playing with but I introduced this game to my extended family (not inherently gamers but who enjoy economic games) and knocked it out of the park. there's tons of interaction, the tiles really matter for claiming milestones, lots of encouraging each other to do things or screw others over, taking plants off people, etc.
the board itself also visually pops so much in a game w really bad art design overall. its the exact reason I like this game, because it's a euro with lots of interaction and visual flair. so many valid criticisms including the crap personal board which desperately needs a scythe style makeover, but I think this one missed it. definitely fiddly but TM is just so unique and so much possibility for coming back from behind (not always possible in classic euros). also decisions aren't that easy man! good players make it agonizing. anyway...keep being mavericks you mugs, love your hot cynical takes on most things but TM has been been a joy for us, hope others try.
also play with 5 players! mayhem! so good.
parqbench if you get behind in TFM against skilled players, they will take advantage of you and stretch the lead. TFM gives you the illusion of being even when everyone is doing the same thing: churning an engine for points desperately before the game ends. (At 4 players WBC rules)
Can't agree with you. I love Race for the Galaxy and this game seems like a bad version of it with uninteresting boardplay and literally some of the worst graphic design I have ever seen in a board game. That Stronghold would publish a game that looks this bad in 2016 is astonishing to me.
What is wrong with the graphic design? Cost is clearly labeled, the prerequisites clear, icons are distinct, one-off and continuing effects clearly separated, all prerequisites and effects indicated both by icons and in text. (Except the red borders around things that can affect other players are a bit vague.)
As opposed to the icon hell of Race for the Galaxy. How long did it take you to memorize it enough to love it?
Vaala Khan of course but that is true in any game, and I think that milestones and awards especially afford a sort of gambling mechanic that allows for players to come up from behind..I know because my family are math wizzes and routinely trounce me at all these games and with TM I've been able to subtly take advantage of how much is going on to slip through the cracks and get landlord for example. in a recent game I managed to claim or get 2nd in a few of the milestones and awards completely unexpectedly and it got me the victory. as the heat corp, i used my excess heat which id upgraded to holy hell to just start buying cities and forezts to place down on the board, which was a huge drain on my resources but just enough...for me, that possibility of coming up from behind w some smart play and a little luck can make or a break a game. some euros it can just feel like you didn't work the formula correctly, in TM I always feel "in the game" unless I really botched it till the very end.
This is my favorite game.. and I own over 250 games. There are so many options to win and the strategy changes based on what cards you get. The terraforming is so different game to game.
I got absolutely *nothing* out of this game when I played it. It takes a lot for me to dislike a game and I almost always refuse to rate a game until I've played it at least half a dozen times but after just 4 plays of this I felt like I'd seen everything it had to offer and I didn't like it one bit. In short, here was just some of the reasons I despised this game:
• The game is too dependent on luck-of-the-draw cards. The drafting variant only partially fixes this at the expense of extending an already over-long game.
• The Standard Actions or whatever they were called are not cost effective and therefore pretty pointless and the rewards section of the board helps rich players which is another problem; the rich get richer in this game as money is tied to victory points.
• Card cost and window of opportunity to play many of them is punishing. The deck should have been split for early game and late game options which would have helped the theme more.
• The game is just too damn long for what it is and it's pretty ugly as well with wildly inconsistent art styles. Downtime can be very high with some players having to pass again and again while others just keep on going.
• The game has a “rich get richer” problem with no suitable catch up mechanic and things cost more on the board if you're the second or third person to go for them, further compounding this problem.
• The game is nowhere near as “thematic” as people claim with some cards making zero sense in the early phase of terraforming a planet (Pets or a Sports Complex for instance!)
• The game is basically “multiplayer solitaire” with very little player interaction compared with other similar Eurogames. "Take that" cards don't count, sorry!
• The game attempts to give the impression of a variety of strategies but ultimately fails in this as you need certain card types to mesh with your chosen corporation and sometimes it just doesn't work out and creates imbalances.
yeah but it's likes saying starcraft 2 is all about spamming voidrays, photon cannons and marines. Because that's what you see in first few games in bronze league. Then you watch tournament and see all units in game actually used.
How are these guys so funny. I can’t believe how much I laugh at these.
Would love to see a review where the expansions are included :)
For me, the addition of the mega corporations etc really made the game shine :)
I didn't liked my first TM play and it will be long time till i play it another time for couple of reasons:
1. Main activity here is accounting. Not the most fun thing, and definitely not the thing I'm looking in games.
2. The choice of components. I don't mind markers as transparent cubes, these are okay, but resource cubes made me confused all the time. Decision to make one quantities cubes for all resources might seem to be good idea, it help exchanging one into the other, but because my titanium looks same as iron, energy and plant or cash i had to spend unnecessary time looking at my board to tell what i have. And it doesn't make too much of sense anyway when it comes to paying, it makes it a nightmare. "Wait this silver cube was titanium or cash..?", as 1 cube of something is 3 cube if something else, but all are the same cubes. Mistakes will be made.
3. Playing alone. I'm not saying about solo mode, but because im so distracted by numbers of cards i have and my board i totally have no time to see what other players do. And even if i try i still have to deal with all the cards they have played.. that's missions impossible. And I want to know what others are up to.
4. Nothing happens on Mars until couple last turns. Most of the game is preparation for the real game. Of course you need to heat the planet, create atmosphere and so on.. but for those couple slicers I don't that big board. Also you can place 3 component types on the map (4 if counting brown for special places). City, forest and sea.. that's disappointing, all terraforming happens on cards. Again why i need that board?
5. The silence. All that accounting, decisions do be made, creates complete silence around the table. You count, shout "next", count more during others turn, repeat. Even if you do open your mouth you are disturbing others when they count..
I will try it again to see if any of these points will go away.. but not to soon.