Batman™: Gotham City Chronicles - Shut Up & Sit Down Review
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- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
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Call me crazy, but I think Reference Pear may be Bat Critic Man. Think about it, have you ever seen the two of them at the same room at the same time? And Bat Critic Man shows up on the day they use reference kohlrabis not reference pear?
Hopefully this'll be touched on some day in the SU&SD extended universe.
Impossible! Reference Pear is a pampered, wealthy playboy. Not the kind of guy you'd find on the streets, fighting board game crime.
I heard that Critic Boy was bitten by a rogue Reference Pear and became Bat Critic Man.
Is Bat Critic Man, Super Critic Man after he couldn't find any phone booths?
Looking at Gloomhaven I am almost convinced that Reference Pear is Lex Luthor. In my view BCM is closely connected to Shux team thou but there are not enough evidence in this video to tell who he really is...
As an all-in backer who has played a number of times, I have to say - great review. I agree with many of the criticisms. I will say that my personal DC fandom adds a great deal of value for me (I can play a board game as Orphan!)
To me it is telling that it has roughly the same rules as Conan, plus maybe a page worth of extra manipulations, and the rulebook is roughly three times as long. Not only that, it is poorly translated with word choice sometimes making rules unnecessarily confusing (there were several times where words in the English version were left in French!) As a former professional manual writer, I can honestly say that this is a 20 page rulebook crammed into 55 pages. It's like a Peter Jackson movie!
i've seen similar poor word choice making rules unnecessarily confusing (BGG for the win) within claustrophobia 1643. i imagine this is just an ongoing theme with Monolith games (i do enjoy claustrophobia 1643, but felt kickstarter was just a "pre-order" for that game)
Since this video, I've spent more time around Monolith games. I like their stuff, but my impression is that they really don't place much importance on localization. It just isn't a priority for them. Conan's manual was so bad that it had to be replaced. Claustrophobia. Batman. Their updates posted for the Kickstarter includes references and charts labeled only in French. I have the feeling that their translator for in-game materials is a native French speaker who knows English, rather than an English speaker that speaks French (which can make a huge difference when it comes to the precision of language.)
They've been called on it and criticized for it again and again. It doesn't seem to matter to them, though.
This is the grossest example of Kickstarter Bloat I've ever seen.
This is most likely why they made it a kickstarter exclusive from the get-go...they knew this would get out of hand quick
That's because you haven't seen Joan of Arc.
what about Kingdom Death Monster? where scope creep is basically the selling point among its fans(which I am one of), like when Adam Poots announced that he had scrapped the completed Philosophy system because he thought the double-sided cards that were being used were too "gamey" and not thematic enough, and thus chose to replace them with all with little mini-bookletes complete with story text and randomization tables and/or choices instead.
All right mate, enjoy your wood cubes
@@markcardenas8843 The choice isin't "wooden cubes" or "literally 8 boxes of miniatures".
My only criticism of this review is that the intro should have been Batcritic and Night Robert running towards the screen in 1960s Batman style.
And maybe a scene where they "Pow!", "Biff!" and "Bam'd!" all those boxes. :D
30 seconds in I know I dont want it.
This kind of game isn´t designed to be played, but to cater to dynamics of crowdfunding campaigns.
Haha, same here. Naturally I'm going through the whole video but the first 30 seconds was all I needed to see to vindicate my decision to abstain from this nonsense.
I agree. I thought the kickstarter campaign made this blatantly obvious.
I personally see it more like an (expensive) toolkit with Batman miniatures (Which I'll also use for the Batman Miniatures game)... But that isn't for everyone and I totally get why this isn't for many boardgame players who're used to playing straight out of the box. I started from RPGs making my own adventures, monsters, rules, maps, handouts, etc. using HeroQuest Minis. This is pretty much the same with a Batman license. ;-)
@@Cergorach Funny. I started and actually am very involved in minitaure wargames. I am not a stranger to mountains of sprues and minis and thousands of hours of hobbywork and I used to play a lot of pen & paper.
In my eyes this game suffers from several issues many other crowndfunded games suffer and all for the same reason. These games are designed around a hierarchy of stretchgoals, often from game designers with little to no experience and without much in the way of playtesting.
Calling the game a toolkit, to me, is an excuse for lackluster design, missing direction and a bloat of components, most likely never to be used, due to flawed game design and bad rule editing.
Its a crowdfunding Golem.
If I look at a game on KS and it’s anywhere over $60, I don’t care how many minis it comes with, I’m not backing it. I’ll never understand a game costing more than that.
Rumor has it they are still reading the rulebook
I laughed too hard at that
So confused, All my kohlrabis are green so I can't use for comparison. Do you have any Reference Rutabagas in stock?
Thank you soooooooo much for saving me $300+
Well,130$ is best value, those expansions from reviews are not that great or ballanced. For 130 it's not bad deal at all. But still after trying it, I am happy with Conan I have, and glad I didn't back it last time(and the fact that I am not fan of art and mini style they went with)
Finally a review who sees the problems and not just the hype. Good work
Holy boardgame critics Matt and Quinns. Fantastic review, clearly explained pros and cons, excellent camera clarity and lighting. Great pacing and dialogue. Keep up the good work.
quite possibly their best work yet!! Cheers Quinns n Matt!
My only complaint is that the other game is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy more expensive
You seem to agree a lot with No Pun Included, which seems only reasonable for this game. Good job on the midway dubbing by the way, hardly noticeable.
There was midway dubbing?!?!??!?!?!
The petition to replace Pattinson with Quinns as Batman starts here
What, no Bat Critic Man isn't Quinns. They're dressed totally differently! Obviously!
My 8 year old could not have laughed more at the constant Ribena cameos. When night Robert pulled out the bottle? Genius. Good work.
This is what we live for!
The bottle pull actually made me spit out my (non-Ribina) drink
I don't know if I love this review more for its brutality or its humor.
As someone that did buy everything, I am quite dissapointed to hear all of this. Haven't had the chance to play it yet, but hopefully I find the redeeming qualities worthwhile. I had wanted to get Conan, but heard about Batman, and specifically chose this over Conan because of the IP and hope that they would have improved upon the problems with the system the first time around. To hear that Conan was better is definitely saddening.
Also, good job recommending the Batman Miniatures Game. I have played that for years and truly love it.
I have both and I find Batman to be the better game, BUT you do have to get past all the issues they bring up here. There are some really great player reference sheets for each character on Board Game Geek that have all the skills listed and explained for the character you are playing in one place. Once you learn the rules and the quirks of the setup illustrations, you won't have to worry about them. But that's going to take some time that could be spend doing other things.
The biggest drawback is every mission is on a strict timer and there's no time to just have fun doing superhero stuff! That might be a deal breaker for people.
Timmo it seems like getting extra turns is in order jajaj
Hey at least Batman isn't aggressively sexist and horrendously limited in its female character options so that's a plus. For some groups that might even be a deciding factor.
Perhaps some house ruling to make it run more like Conan is in order?
Timmo Warner I would definitely recommend adding 2 rounds in each scenarios, allowing players to have fun attacking and not so much on going for scenarios. Also allows for a few bad dice rolls.
I’m also considering allowing the heroes to have their free movement when resting. So many times heroes can get stuck when resting that villains come in and knock them out.
Your goal in life should be to find a significant other that thinks of you the same way Matt thinks about Batcritic-man
Wait wait wait. You mean parents don't ordinarily charge interest on pocket money?
Oh dear.
Stupidly over the top... Classic example of style over substance. Great review as always but a poor poor game
Thx
@@frederichenry7319 it's merely my personal opinion (although clearly shared by not only the reviewers but also quite a few viewers); your sarcasm isn't going to make it a better game either
Poor poor game with 8+ in board game geek. Lool?!
@@prof3gamer988 yes
Have you been playing the game at least ? If you have, well, I guess it takes all sorts to make a world. If you haven't then you may have been too quick to judge... Try a game, you never know... you may end up liking it ^^
After seeing this review I have cancelled my pledge in Kickstarter. I realized that it's too heavy and just too expensive. Also it won't probably hit my game table very often. I love Batman and DC Universe, but I totally agree with your point that they could have started it with just a few characters and work more on gameplay itself, balance it and just focus more on mechanics, not only on the miniatures. Thanks Shut up& Sit Down for saving me a lot of money, cheers!
I really appreciate the reintroduction of jokes and skits into these less positive reviews. Good development from the Fallout one, for example. Games are inherently a bit silly and worth poking fun at!
Seeing it had a lot of miniatures and a visually appealing board I somehow knew already that it was a Kickstarter game.
After seeing how this turned out, I worry about future Kickstarter games that deal with big IPs and offer more and more and more stuff as stretch goals while the core game hasn’t been finalized yet. It seems like a recipe for overindulgence.
You think maybe?
I'll be honest: I think this game has great potential, less as a competitive tabletop, and more as a ttrpg. The villain should operate less as s player giving it all to win and more as a DM tailoring the experience, and developing a campaign out of it
That and a willingness to go with a table ruling instead of digging through the current books for every exact answer.
This made me want to buy conan
Me too! Want to play sometime? 😉
Do so. It's good. Expansions are too expensive but the base is fun enough
It's $60 on Amazon rn
Bravo, you entertained me start to finish talking about what sounds like a terrible game as someone not at all interested in miniatures or the Batman universe.
The whole review, I thought to myself that I'm glad I already play the Batman Miniature Game with a group of friends and therefore wasn't even tempted to buy this truckload of plastic. And in the end, you even recommended it. I can support your thesis, the Batman Miniature Game (in it's revised edition) seems to be a lot more fun than this game. Again and again, we had fights that are epic or bonkers or both and always feel like you are in the comics, no matter the gang you play.
ME TOO! Bought a ton literally the month before this was announced.
@DerGrantelbart nope.
@DerGrantelbart cool story. Be well!
I already regret backing this in the first kickstarter :-/
Kickstarter us lots of smoke and mirrors often with nothing behind, Borderline scam. But hey its not like you voted Trump or Brexit. :-D
Quick story:
My co-workers and I play board games for a whole day once a month. My Co-worker Hank bought the all-in kickstarter because he's got a boner for the batman.
He brings this over to play, and it took him and our friend an hour in a half to set it up. Then a half hour to go over the freakin' rules for everyone. It was over two hours, and we didn't even play the game.
When we went to play, we realized how unbalanced the first scenario is. Many hours later, we beat Bane, but it didn't feel rewarding at all. We basically sat there for over 5 hours to play a game that was draining, and bloated, and overall not a great time.
So flash forward 5 months later, and he brings it again. We have a new player with us, which means an extra half hour of time explaining the game. I straight up told him no. I felt bad since he doesn't get to play the game, but it just takes so damn long for so little pay off. In that time we could play Conan, or play Dead of Winter, or Imperial Assault, OR EVEN ALL OF THEM.
So this is a warning to people pledging to games on kickstarter blindly. If a game looks like it has a lot of stuff to set up, and play with, then it's probably gonna end up sitting on your shelf most game nights.
Mekova felt bad for you guys. I as the teacher avoid these situations by having the game rules already down . My first experience, I had each scenario planned ahead 10-15min set up time. Then teaching the rules was simple since They only need to know the basics to get started. We played two scenarios that night in 3hrs. My friends loved it.
@@guillermoz4914 Yeah, a part of the problem was the owner of the game drove down to where we were playing after he did a job, so he was already tired. He also didn't go over the rules like he should've, and he procrastinated opening some of the stuff up.
There is a new batman game being released on kiockstarter that is based on the really good cartoon from the 90's that is similar. I might peep that out.
Mekova yeah based on the Batman animated series. Love the cartoons . I own the Ninja Turtles which has the same system. If you want a Batman IP it’s much easier to play. 🤓
@@guillermoz4914 Here's a fun little story.
We played it again as a two player game.
It took us, no joke, 2 hours to set up the scenario.
He was the bad guys, and I was the good guys.
Because I min-maxed my gear and character choices, I was able to beat the mission in only a few turns, aka around 30 minutes.
Picture it. 2 hours of set up, for around 30 minutes of play.
That's unreal. I was able to just get the cure for the virus or whatever, and leave without saying as much as a goodbye.
Basically, I ran in, used smoke bombs to reduce enemy accuracy, beat up Penguin, used a bomb to blow open a wall with batman, had bat girl run in, do the hacking thing, have batman tank damage, then have both of them leave.
We were both more disappointed than I was at my friends cat when she pee'd all over my bookbag in Highschool.
Sure I could get another one, but it's still a bummer.
What a terrible host, i couldn't possibly bring a game to a table without at least 80% of the rules already dominated, also... your quick story was just as quick as this game's manual (just a little joke)
Really hoping the season 3 rules update makes this game more playable.
No Calendar Man?? I'm out.
I ended up having a ton of issues with Conan. Mainly 1) Conan was the only fun hero, 2) the scenarios were only strictly for a certain number of players (this was REALLY stupid), and 3) the few number of maps were really static. From what I've seen about Batman, I can't say I'm excited about it, either.
Batman at least fixes problem #1.
I was one of those BGG users who created a bunch of useful files to play the game: Condensed Rules, FAQ, Skill/Trait references
POW! What a review guys, no one does it better. Seriously funny and genuine. Was worried you would recommend it at the end, glad you saw past all the cool stuff. A dinosaur, really?
Another outstanding review. I love the world of Batman so much and was thinking about getting this, but this is like the downside of Kickstarter crystallised into a single game. You’ve saved me a huge amount of money, thank you again!
Christ it genuinely sounds like this wasn't playtested at all...
Great review. Very nice humorous, and, as an all-in backer, I can completely recognize the criticism.
The set up most of the time is really awful.
But we had a lot of fun playing the game with friends. I guess we liked the “calculation” style of the game. And sometimes this feeling of last moment lucky roll is just awesome)))
This game becomes really awesome the 4th time you play it.
@B Palmer Depends)
My friend and i had a learning game. We were well aware that this was a game with a lot of rules. But because of this, whoever is teaching a game like this needs to know the rules well before fully experiencing it with a full player count. Luckily we are no stranger to longer games and were glad to figure out that the base mechanics are quite simple.
The difficulty is added by the different objectives.
I watched this while painting one of my Carnivorous Plant minis from the game. Yeah, I went all in and I recognise all these complaints. I'm not sure I regret the purchase, as we've had some fun already, and fan support helps a lot. Even tempted by parts of season 2, if only to get some Suicide Squad and Etrigan the Demon fun.
Was interested by your recommendation for the minis game, but have been wary of that because the minis are a lot more expensive, figure by figure, and their Harry Potter game looks like a disaster. Still, maybe grabbing the rules would be worth it.
You guys should review island of el dorado. I’m curious to what you guys would think of it
Trevor Locke we played that with my group last time we got together. Very enjoyable experience. A lot of back-and-forth with who we thought would come out on top.
Gotta say, the colors in this video just pop; really great toning in post (also, great review)
Bat-critic-man's flesh colored eyelids are freaky deeky! Absolutely nightmare inducing!
hahah true, also black eye make up with a blue mask??
"What's fun is completely different from how you win the game." That's exactly how I feel about Legends of Andor but I was never able to express it until now.
Do a review of 7th continent + wgumcd expansion!
I looked into the Batman Miniature Game and I'm not sure the assessment that it would be cheaper holds true. Yes, it has a lower barrier to entry, but, as with most piecemeal miniature systems, expanding your set can quickly reach a price that makes the sheer number of miniatures included in the Chronicles set pretty appealing. I wonder if playing BMG with the B:GCC minis might be the way to get the maximum out of both options(albeit with an initial cost in the $225 range)?
Haha! Funniest video in ages. So well done. I backed this and don't regret it, but definitely see your points.
I'm mostly pissed off that they are doing another kickstarter for more expansions ... and I still don't even have a delivery date for my pledge from the first game.
I suspect the kickstarter for the new expansions will be done and over before I have even managed to begin trying to play this once.
Just played Conan for the first time earlier tonight and it was pretty great.
I wonder if there's a way to simplify this game and play it more like Conan.
Holy crap I knew just from how big the game was that it’s NOT something I would be able to keep in my house. I would have to rent is especially since I own a decent amount of board games already. This game is a space hog.
Hi Matt and Quinns, if you were to make Gotham City Chronicles better, where would you start? What's the biggest hurdle holding the game back? I'm noting a few common criticisms:
1. Too many confusing rules (the translation errors, imprecise language, length of rulebook, etc.)
2. Confusing UI/UX (the color scheme, the symbols used, the location of symbols, etc.
3. Unbalanced or unfun missions (mostly to do with the time limits)
Are there more? I would be very interested in which problem you would tackle first. I haven't played this game, but I feel personally that I could eventually get over 1, and I could eventually figure out 2, but I wouldn't be able to work through 3. Is there potential for changes that would help the game? I noticed many missions in Conan that have a time limit end on turn 10, and you mentioned a 7-turn time limit is too...limiting. Would extending that time limit help? Similar to your recommendation to Flick 'em Up, would fiddling with scenarios help the game? Or would you start elsewhere?
Of course the people that would make a game like this would use the Frank Miller Batman
While I don't think SUSD are being deliberately disingenuous, the claim that the Batman Miniatures Game by Knight Models is cheaper is completely wrong. To get JUST the Penguin faction runs between $96 - $150(!). BGCC definitely has a rough "first play" experience due to the overwhleming amount of iconography and skills. But for the money the core set provides an exhaustive Batman experience. You do need a group that can power through the learning curve though.
To reproduce the contents of Batman (with 3D terrain, etc.), it would easily run over $1500 at Knight Models.
A full crew of Penguin (not every model on the range, I mean a 350 rep crew) on Miniature Market is about $75. You can put together a fairly cheap table of terrain for like $50 if you're a little crafty with paper terrain. If you have a local gaming store, that cost is essentially $0 if they provide miniature gaming terrain.
Miniature only games start out affordable but it can easily get out of hand rather quickly. Now you add what your friends had to pay...it’s a slippery slope!
@@Bandit-137 that's true, but that can also be said of games like GCC. Personally, if I had to choose between paying the $300 for the first season of the kickstarter myself, or paying $120~ for the stuff needed to play BMG and 3 of my friends do too, I'd rather take that, knowing the usability issues of GCC.
all that being said, I really don't think the game are similar enough at all to say "this one is a better choice than the other", unless you ONLY want a Batman themed game.
@Joshua, totally agree with your last paragraph.
I know my friends would not be interested in a pure miniature game let alone fronting the costs for one. But they will play a game like GCC once in a while as long as I front the costs and supply the alcohol. 👍
Having sludged through several versions of warhammer 40k I always expect a game with a lot of minis to require constant rules referencing. The layout in the rule book is still absolutely piss poor.
If you take the time to get into it with a dependable group it could get to be a lot of fun.
The quality of the minis was VERY good for the price point (opposed to 40k)
Turn limits are the real draw back IMO. A character might be beat up and resting for 2 or 3 rounds in a 7 round game. So after setting it up and explaining rules for a few hours your players get to sit out 1/3 to 1/2 the game sometimes.
6/10 for me. Not enough to justify my all in pledge. Maybe the new mission creator kit will help.
What a great review! I love the pros and cons and agree. Thanks for saving me a ton of money.
I know I’ve seen Bat Critic someplace before...
I have both Batman and Conan, and I haven't had a chance to play Batman yet but simply reading the rules and looking at components this is exactly what I feared. I love Conan and play it all the time, and I am definitely going to tweak the Batman missions to add either more players or more turns to allow players to have time to do fun and cool things. Hopefully that will be enough to recreate that Conan feel with a Batman flavor.
Did I see a cape-wearing cow…? 🤔
NOT SPONSERED BY RIBENA AT ALL
Speaking as someone who's tried to make board games/RPGs based on existing properties, this one just screams of the makers thinking out the characters, items, places and references *first* and figuring out intuitive gameplay systems... *Somewhere* down the line. 😂
I'd love a board game based on Batman's abilities, e.g. solve mysteries, stealth about, fight crooks and monsters. Sort of a combination of *Cluedo and Heroquest....* hmm... I think I've got an idea.
Very bad review. But nice laughs.
Saying go for Conan instead, is saying: go for less balanced game, with less options.
I realized 20 secs in that this was a kickstarter bloater. To be honest, everything that is miniature heavy is a complete turn off for me at this point. Still watched the whole thing :)
Totally agree plus its proper models cardboard for me. Or sone nice haptic wood cubes. Rule of thumb always confirmed by the Experts here, the more plastic the more it wants to hide. Only game that was plastic heavy that intersted me was that epic LoTR game. But lers face it...never would find time to set it up , or even play it. Totally igoring i know no one crazy enough to go on that major adventure. But it looks worth it. Those Kickstarter games are total shelf dust accumilating atrocities of neeless consum society though.
I don’t agree with the critic from this review . This game is clearly not for gamers who want to play this once a month. This is for all in tacticians who want to dive deep Into it. And that’s why the content is so great . With the expansions and the versus mode you get so much replayability here it’s almost bonkers. And i can say for sure if you played it 3-4 times you get all the icons and abilities and know the maps. Than it is just you and your opponent. Game speed is fun (45-60 minuted per game) and you can switch roles afterward or play versus . Every part of this game says it is huge (prize,content and time invest ) for casual once in a year fun gamers it will never unfold it’s huge potential
OMG, 11:22 THANK YOU! It completely boggles my mind WHY I need to reference a picture of the map and not the map itself, with all its hugeness.
@Lassi Kinnunen As in the map board? I am not sure if you are suggesting I print a map or suggesting the Monolith missed their chance to include the information on the the actual board that is the map....To my logical perspective, it should be a functional tool first and a gorgeous piece of art second.
Great review. It is fair to mention a couple of things though. First the vs mode, which is quite good and not in conan and second the fact that they are going to release next week a tool to create scenarios for the community in which you can do a scenario with the objective of killing someone or just fighting or whatever you want to do. I think this tool would give much more play time and fun here than in conan because the variety of heroes and villains is much larger (and better imo).
this was hilarious ;D awesome review guys!
Night Robert is my new favourite DC character. Or is it Knight Robert?
Gnight like Gnu, but with ight.
I'm better at Computer... [error 404]
Best reviewers of all the channels. Plus, the games they expose you to that you did not know existed.💎💎💎💎💎💎💎💎💎💎💎💎💎💎💎💎💎💎💎💎💎💎💎
Carmobile... XD XD XD XD
I feel VERY lucky that my wife and I *love* this game. A lot of the main actions within the rulebook can be condensed into about a page, but you’ll likely know the rules off by heart after a few games. One of the best all-in gaming investments I’ve ever made!
yeah this game isnt as bad. These guys are just haters lol
This is vintage SUSD. Such a great, witty and thorough review. Glad to see you guys back in form.
The hilariousness of the eye shadow under the mask is directly proportional to how unnecessary it is.
Lets face it...he couldnt let that chance slip :-D
Why's that man on the internet in his pyjamas? Is this that internet porn we hear so much about?
14:46 Did you just say that being Robbert isn't cool? Jeez, unfollow.
Robbert Vervuurt - being ‘ Robert’ isn’t cool. Add in a second ‘B’ and you’re much cooler.
@@pguth9 Aaah, that makes sense! Thanks :D
I dont think this review is disingenuous but I do believe this is a case of the wrong game for the group. I have played about 10 times so far and about 5 scenarios. I have also played some versus mode. Short run down of what I think:
There is too much emphasis but SUSD on the iconography. You only have to focus on what is important for the scenario which is usually very little and repeated often on each models corresponding card.
There is not too much stuff, that is an opinion. As a painter and a collector, this game has what I want. I like having the models to paint. I like displaying batman and the villains etc. Just because that isn't a feature you want doesnt make it a bad feature.
Once you have played through 1 game, the second game takes half of the time. I have played 20 games of 40k and it still takes forever because of all of the weapons and model variations. This game is way less complex then that.
I have been able to teach this game in 30 mins. Yes it is on me to learn all the stuff, but I own the game so it is always on me. I find this game easy to teach because the game Is move then do an action. So simple. Everything else is fluff and can be explained in time.
Finally, rulebook is really bad. That's it for that. It's bad. Like awful.
So while I think they really feel this way and they arent bashing it for the views or something, I must say I get super excited to get home and play this game. It is a ton of fun. I understand people not wanting to front 120 or 300 or more dollars for it. That is fair. But if you now hate the game because SUSD said they dont like it, I think you should watch guerilla miniature games play the game or the dice tower and see how much fun they had while playing it. I mean SUSD hates zombicide with a passion yet most people who own it love it. Just different strokes for different folks.
Thanks for coming to my Ted talk
Oof I really want to back this game since I like the theme better than Conan and it feels more inclusive (better female representation). I knew the rules book was bad and the characters were fiddly but this review really has me second guessing myself now. Especially considering the expense. Hmmmm
Something wrong with female representation in Conan?
I got the all in pledge and can see where most of the complaints are coming from but I really had no problem with playing as my first game I had already printed a laminated a whole stack of cheat sheets for players and whatnot. Learning the iconography took me a game or two but that is normal for most games for me. The timer in each scenario makes it feel more like an intense realistic battle to win where single decision could change the game instead of other batman games which feel more like your classic superhero fighting bad guys BOTH very fun in my opinion just for different people
Of course I find this AFTER I pledged, not 10 minutes ago....off to figure out if I can cancel it....and to research Batman Miniatures...
Same! I'm still so tempted since I'm convinced I can manage to overcome these issues...which is probably just inaccurate and vain. Core Batman Miniatures box is actually the same price ironically.
It's kickstarter...of course you can cancel.
Never make or cancel a purchase off of one review. Find a handful of reviewers that have your similar interests to get a larger sample size. I have heard plenty of bad things about Conan too. Depends on your tastes and those of your gaming group!
Disappointing conclusion but I'm glad I didn't back it now.
Bartender:What can I getcha?
Me: I'll take a boardgame.
Bartender: Role playing game.
Me: No, boardgame.
Bartender: Role playing game.
Me: B. O. A.
Bartender: R. O. L.
This comment makes me want a beer.
Absolutely nailed it. This is so nearly a 9/10 game, that somehow - via KS excesses, bad graphic design choices, an overload of icons and an awful rulebook - manages to be just a 7/10.
I was pleased to see that you have all of the same criticisms of the game that we have.
8+ in board game geek
Thank you for saving me nearly 200 dollars! I literally cancelled my backing 10 minutes into this and then still came back to finish the review because it’s so entertaining
Sentinel Tactics! Love that game. Excellent frame work for coming up with your own rules, heroes and scenarios.
Totally agree with all of the points in this video!
I think the modern board games designers must take a step or two back in the way they make all those games with sooooo many tiles and pieces and tokens and things that will need table bigger than my bedroom to put on and about 1-1:30 hours to set up and put back in the box.
There are games I don’t play because of that reason. ...
And don't let me start about rule books that are so big I need a few days to read and have to search all the time during play.
Games prices are to high for reasons like those.
I don't need tokens and tiles. I need more scenarios and more maps with randomising mechanisms for maximum replayability.
I just love the idea of the Batcave being under someone else's house and Bruce Wayne needing to keep coming up with reasons to use this person's basement.
Sooo... D&D, but just batman, more rules than 3.5e, less replayability, and much more clunky... for more money?
(P.S. money for D&D books is calculated with 35-40 dollars a book on amazon, and PHB, DMG, and MM.)
I don't think you forgot to plug the mic in, I think you did a terrible batman voice and were too embarrassed to show it 😂😳
Great review as always, love you guys ❤️
Excellent and amazing as usual. I’m thinking of getting imperial assault for my wife and I instead
Listen, I said early on in BGG that the game had problems, many of which many other influencers are starting to speak bout now, and I was crucified. and given a strong talking to on BGG by the admins AND the Monolith team told me "if you don't like it then its not the game for you" is is after taking my money of course for the all-in pledge. I went ahead anf bought it cause I loved Conan so much. I learned my lesson. Unless you love something don't speak ill about it or else.....I'm actually worried for these guys right now.
I think I'll finish my masters degree before I learn every rule in this game.
my adhd would have had me stopped half way through unboxing first box
I don't disagree with much that was said. However, I'm not as hard on it as they are.
This is definitely not a game for the Catan or Ticket to Ride crowd.
However, the wargamers (Warhammer, Infinity, etc.) in my circle enjoyed it. They found the icons fairly simple to follow once taught, the dice mechanics made sense, and the gameplay wasn't nearly as slow as this review leads you to believe after the first couple of turns (except for that one player who agonizes over every decision).
These gamers are used to deeper game play.
However, they had the benefit of me teaching the game, and I'm one who does my research, including checking FAQ's, printing reference sheets, etc.
They didn't have to worry about translation issues or questions about the board. I had ready answers for them, picked out the scenario, etc.
I do think there should be an easier way to play the scenarios for beginners, but for some scenarios that just means having a little more stamina to start or a few more turns so resting isn't so painful.
Hilariously awesome review, and totally agree... except for the Batman: The Miniatures Game comments. The minis from Knight models, awesome though they are, are hugely expensive. You can download their rules for free, and still get fan-made stat cards online for free too, so $130 for this many minis represents a pretty good deal... especially as your review will now have dropped the resale price considerably! ;)
I own both Batman and Conan and can confirm everything they say here, except, I would still recommend Batman as the better game ONCE you get past all the fiddly time consuming stuff they talk about (and yes, print out a LOT of good references from Board Game Geek that make it MUCH easier to play.)
The one thing that you can't get by without making changes to the rules is the absolute timer every mission is on. If you're fine with replaying a scenario until you learn to do it right (or as the villain, to not make blunders that made it too easy on the heroes), then you'll be fine. But, as they say, there is little or no time to just have fun doing super hero stuff! Every move you make has to be with a purpose so you end up doing what you have to do instead of what would be fun to do. (This is still fun, but you wish you were more free.)
I've heard that the limitations the heroes face, almost makes this a better 1v1 game (even in Adventure mode). It allows the hero player to always have something to do, even if one of his characters is resting or hacking or whatever.
@@derekgarcia3069 Yes, it plays very well controlling more than one hero as long as you can keep all their different abilities straight!
Anyone else notice Sparky from Dead of Winter at the 21:09 mark???
Gad, I can't stop watching these. I must go to sleep...
Just one more
This review reminds me of our experience going through the rules and scenarios of Tanhauser. Cool graphics, intriguing world history (and that would be an RPG setting I'd love to try someday maybe using FATE or Call of Cthulhu), but the investment in set up and rules research has made it seldom played at our table.
Echoed my feelings on the game almost perfectly. Amazing production, fantastic mechanical designs that can give deep and interesting choices for the players. But my god I've never played a game that was in so desperate need to crib sheets and reference guides. How the designers felt player would be able to memorize vital rules for entire maps with zero references to them on the actual board, or expecting players to memorize multiple character skills that in the book can have FIVE paragraphs of descriptive text apiece is beyond me.
I couldn't imagine trying to play this game with more than one other person and having scenario specific reference guides that only show information you need for the characters/map for that exact scenario. That would cut all the rules search down to about 4 pages per scenario. But would also increase the rules book by about....100 pages.....
A lot of this game's art looks more like it belongs in a cheap Batman lunchbox not a comic book
Could you please review Eclipse New dawn for the galaxy, or Eclipse second dawn for the galaxy
Thank you for not SHILLING this game! Glad you gave an honest to god review. Some of the best criticism
This is amazing if you have a bunch of friends who will play this with you regularly.