At 4:25 I was literally dozing off, probably because it’s almost midnight when I watched this. But then Efka told me to wake up and pay attention. Freaky stuff. It’s like the video knew I would fall asleep. Efka is psychic!
Been gaming one year my favourite game was acyually probably carcassonne untill I found terraforming mars about 31 days ago. It does kind of feel like the fortnite of board games though and I wonder how long it'll keep me gripped.
I'm not really into this game, I'm here to see if my husband would like it so that I could get it for his birthday and I swear, the moment the guy said WAKE UP, he was actually addressing .. ..me... ..because I dozed off. A bizzare little moment
Great review Efka. The tag tokens idea is a very smart idea; it would solve also the table space issue this game causes. I think you nailed the problem down very precisely with this game. But just like you, I like playing it too and would never turn it down ^^
Just pile the cards and count the tags when you need if you running out of space.. No space problem. No forgot to pick up tokens. No since you forgot to pick up tokens, my card that counts how many tags you have would have given me one more and my turn would be completely different.
Just played my first game of this yesterday. I am a co-op type of gamer mostly due to not liking conflict in games (being ganged up on or attacking others and feeling bad about it), but I think the conflict in TM is totally fine. You are never decimating an opponent by your attack, you are setting them back maybe 1 turn on one of 6 different tracks. Its not a huge deal. One of our players had 4 of 5 meteors thrown at them, removing a total combined 12 greenery. By mid game they were generating 18 greenery per turn. So in 4 or 5 turns of attacks set them back less than 1 turn overall. Great game, highly enjoyed it.
I've played Terraforming Mars now about 6 times, and I completely agree that the aggressive 'Attack your opponents' cards feel out of place from the rest of the game, but you hit it square on the head, it's about being able to stop a runaway leader. The players I usually play with are extremely knowledgeable in any game that hits the table more than twice, so naturally, we all know the 'good' cards for each stage of the game. As such, the game is often dependant upon what you draw, which turns it into a complicated way to roll some dice. When we see a player able to play cards with solid synergy for 3-4 turns in a row, it starts to become apparent who is going to win, and when you have moments like that, the remaining 1-2 hours of gameplay are suddenly far less enjoyable, especially if more than one person has been trying to salvage the junk card draws they've suffered in the last few rounds. And when people are bummed at the table, the rest of the playthrough is a slog for everyone except the leader. Solid theme, solid concepts, but I feel like they should've put a better balancing mechanic in to outweigh the luck swing of drawing cards from an immense deck.
I like this game a lot. It has some great choices and a nice engine building mechansim. Using card drafting adds another fun aspect to the gameplay. It alo has a nice solo play mode that provides some difficulty not found in the multi-player mode.
You guys are awesome, you know that? I don't like to put ranks to people, but you're DEFINITELY some of my favorite board game reviewers, both for your humor and how deeply you explain the *game*, rather than what most people seem to do, which is deeply explain the *rules*. But yeah, I love your work, and I wanted to take the opportunity to gush a bit.
Like you, I am not so keen on Terraforming Mars and I love Great Western Trail. Unfortunately, in all the latest French Festival awards both reached the final round and each time T.M. won ! Damned !!
I enjoyed my first few playthroughs of Terraforming Mars, but I too felt that 1. It drags. 2. Players have their heads down looking at their crap. Its still very very good, but I like Euros with heads *up* like Great Western Trail more.
I like both Terraforming Mars and Great Western Trail but TM feels more satisfying. Unless you have a really horrible luck with the cards you get, you will end TM with the sense you built something and last turn or two you are just milking points while in Great Western trail the game ends at the exact time what I was building is online so I don't get the pay off more than once.
Nah he's right, it's basically a solitaire game inside a multiplayer game. You pay attention so you don't miss marks and draft cuts, but mostly you play your game with your head down. The interaction is minimal, and i honestly couldn't disagree more with the "satisfaction" after the game ends. Although my score keeps improving game after game i find the game to be mostly boring. It has great qualities and pros. But to me it's one of the most boring experiences i've ever played. Sure i'm not much into board games and let alone euro games for that matter, but still, for a game with this praise and reputation i find it really overrated. Even after 5 games.
thing is, this game isn't about terraforming mars: it's about colonizing Mars. these are profit driven companies, using the marketing opportunity of "creating a new home for humanity" to hide the shadey things they need to do to achieve that end, and to increase their profits. I love this game, but think it would be cooler if it leaned into that.
Interesting take on this game. I think the solo mode is great. I love the theme. I don’t have a problem with the take that elements & to be fair if you don’t like those cards just don’t play them. Drafting makes the game much better. But it can go on to long & we all know how naff the components are.
No Pun Included - Great. Then neither of us has a problem . (Well that’s not strictly true but I’m more comfortable discussing those issues with my doctor).
If you don't use the take that cards, Ecoline becomes VERY powerful, since plants are a very efficient source of VP (1 TR, 1 board point and 1 per adjacent city). It is really painful though at times. I've had games where I was Saturn and got hacked, power-tapped and had my titanium production stolen all by turn 3.
Good move not mentioning the cost-benefit analysis post on BGG that can tell you specifically and unequivocally if a move is optimal or not and illustrate just how poorly you actually play the game.
A "heartbreak" game for me--I want to love it, but it's on our dud shelf. I did love it at first, bought some overlays for the player mats and all. But, only ever playing 2p, after a while we rejected it, after a while gave it another chance, after a while rejected it again. The excessive length is easily adjusted by house ruling the game end conditions; still, it overstays its welcome at any length for me. It's much more fun in the early stages when you're devising your engine than in the later stages when you have specific needs and hope the cards hit you. There are imbalances and lucky swings that leave me sour--a matter of taste, but I'm competitive like that. But watching this made me want to try again--some sessions go better than others, and it's pretty fun when it doesn't nosedive. I'm jealous of the many people who love it. You said on Twitter that we might sense a subtle difference in approach. Maybe...not sure, but yeah, maybe. At any rate, this was an excellent review.
I play with a variant where players have a certain number of rounds (11 in two player, 9 in three player and 8 in 4 player) to reach the end game conditions otherwise everyone loses. Thematically it's Earth is dying and unless you can make Mars sustainable by the time Earth is destroyed, humanity dies. It's helped a lot with game length and adds a nice tension to the game.
I recommend focusing harder on standard projects, you shouldn't ever be waiting on specific cards. The standard projects are deceptively strong, we shortened our game length considerably by giving them more of a shot and weighing how often cards actually deliver the value you invest in them. It's also a viable strategy to rush to terraform as fast as possible to shut out players going for a card heavy strategy. If that still keeps the game too long you can use the rule from the Venus expansion where the start player each round moves one of the terraforming tracks up one spot or places an ocean at the end of each generation for free on behalf of the Earth government, with nobody getting that bonus. Definitely shaves a round or two off the game.
Good review but it confuses me how so many people can point out all the flaws in this game and yet still come away with a generally positive review. I just bumped against this game really hard and had no desire to try it again after the 5th play.
You describe my feelings towards this game better than I understand them myself. It is ridiculous where it got on bgg.....still, every time I play it, I enjoy it immensly, not clearly knowing why. Good to know this ambiguity problem od not only mine. Greetings grom Poland (added having watched the Colonialism video).
I simply can't get over the MSRP vs the shitty component quality and card art. Stronghold games is ridiculous and their practice of overcharging for low quality games is laughable. Take Scythe for instance with an app being developed that has been delayed in part because they opted to rebuild it to be more in line with the physical game visually. Then look at the Terraforming Mars app in development. The developers went the smart route and have replaced all the card art from the physical game. Its unfortunate because at $35-$40 this is a decent game but at $70? Get the .... out of town. Nevermind the online discounters, it is a straight joke what they have set the MSRP at. And yes, I own it and the game is not terrible but that doesn't make the price right.
I just started watching your videos and am still looking for a game you seem to like. They all have complaints that seem to outweigh any praise, which honestly feels pasted on.
I'm willing to go out on a limb and say you're playing it wrong if it takes six hours. Any game would be boring if you took three times its intended length of play.
We played it right, the game probably should have been 3-5 hours but we had breaks and such. Multiple 4 players sessions with mixed skill levels. Different variant with drafting and such. I love boardgames, but the game is way too much of a drag.
How long are your games did you say? We hardly ever go past two hours. Do you do the common mistake of treating a generation as a once-around the table? You keep playing until everyone have passed, then a new generation begins.
That's how we played with drafting, 4 players multiple sessions mixed skills. There are times, I rush toward the finish simply because I want the game to end after 2-3 hours. That never happens besides this game for me because to able to play board games is a treat for me.
I didn't want to watch further, I like your quality and your energy but you make it seem very bad amd negative, if you could be a little more positive about it, it would be more interesting and fun to watch
![Top 10 Board Games According to No Pun Included [Part 2]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/BkxCxfFHCH0/mqdefault.jpg)
"Ludonarrative Harmony" - I love you guys.
This review has made me smile at least 5 times. Amazing work :) looking great!
Oh man, your turning dials bit has me in stitches.
At 4:25 I was literally dozing off, probably because it’s almost midnight when I watched this. But then Efka told me to wake up and pay attention. Freaky stuff. It’s like the video knew I would fall asleep. Efka is psychic!
Been gaming one year my favourite game was acyually probably carcassonne untill I found terraforming mars about 31 days ago. It does kind of feel like the fortnite of board games though and I wonder how long it'll keep me gripped.
"Fortnite of Boatdgames" would more likely be Monopoly! Millions of copies sold, hated by a lot of people in the boardgame hobby, loved by kids!
If I have 3 bears in real life is that 3 points or is there a bonus for 3 of a kind?
The question is, terraforming mars or 51 state ? Both fell very similar, but i think the state is more “elegant”, and have a better take that mecanic.
You were already amongst my favorite UA-camrs, but the Nick of Time fortune machine and the Tom Waits LP really sealed the deal.
I'm not really into this game, I'm here to see if my husband would like it so that I could get it for his birthday and I swear, the moment the guy said WAKE UP, he was actually addressing .. ..me... ..because I dozed off. A bizzare little moment
Great review Efka. The tag tokens idea is a very smart idea; it would solve also the table space issue this game causes.
I think you nailed the problem down very precisely with this game. But just like you, I like playing it too and would never turn it down ^^
Just pile the cards and count the tags when you need if you running out of space.. No space problem. No forgot to pick up tokens. No since you forgot to pick up tokens, my card that counts how many tags you have would have given me one more and my turn would be completely different.
That slap joke made me laugh out loud.
Great review as always. I hope that the UKGE Show gets recorded and uploaded for the ones that can't get there.
I know I'm 2 years late, but can we get more of that knob turning?
I'll try.
This was an excellent review thanks. I've subscribed.
Just played my first game of this yesterday. I am a co-op type of gamer mostly due to not liking conflict in games (being ganged up on or attacking others and feeling bad about it), but I think the conflict in TM is totally fine. You are never decimating an opponent by your attack, you are setting them back maybe 1 turn on one of 6 different tracks. Its not a huge deal. One of our players had 4 of 5 meteors thrown at them, removing a total combined 12 greenery. By mid game they were generating 18 greenery per turn. So in 4 or 5 turns of attacks set them back less than 1 turn overall. Great game, highly enjoyed it.
2:32 sound was so crisp and unexpected that it scared me lol
I go advanced but without the drafting due to time limits. Never had an issue with the cards and tags. Most important, it's fun to play.
Really hope to be able to go to UKGE next year and see you there!
I've played Terraforming Mars now about 6 times, and I completely agree that the aggressive 'Attack your opponents' cards feel out of place from the rest of the game, but you hit it square on the head, it's about being able to stop a runaway leader.
The players I usually play with are extremely knowledgeable in any game that hits the table more than twice, so naturally, we all know the 'good' cards for each stage of the game. As such, the game is often dependant upon what you draw, which turns it into a complicated way to roll some dice.
When we see a player able to play cards with solid synergy for 3-4 turns in a row, it starts to become apparent who is going to win, and when you have moments like that, the remaining 1-2 hours of gameplay are suddenly far less enjoyable, especially if more than one person has been trying to salvage the junk card draws they've suffered in the last few rounds.
And when people are bummed at the table, the rest of the playthrough is a slog for everyone except the leader.
Solid theme, solid concepts, but I feel like they should've put a better balancing mechanic in to outweigh the luck swing of drawing cards from an immense deck.
I like this game a lot. It has some great choices and a nice engine building mechansim. Using card drafting adds another fun aspect to the gameplay. It alo has a nice solo play mode that provides some difficulty not found in the multi-player mode.
Jim Tompkins - yeah the solo mode is very good. Drafting significantly improves the game imo
Hey, the same happened with my Carcassonne playing friend!
I was not expecting a SU&SD reference.
I mean, I honestly wasn't expecting a lot of things in this video, like the surprise radial wipe.
or the surprise comment.
You guys are awesome, you know that? I don't like to put ranks to people, but you're DEFINITELY some of my favorite board game reviewers, both for your humor and how deeply you explain the *game*, rather than what most people seem to do, which is deeply explain the *rules*.
But yeah, I love your work, and I wanted to take the opportunity to gush a bit.
Thank you, that's very kind of you to say.
Kudos for sneaking in a Beastie Boys reference into a Euro review. Brilliant!
Like you, I am not so keen on Terraforming Mars and I love Great Western Trail. Unfortunately, in all the latest French Festival awards both reached the final round and each time T.M. won ! Damned !!
I enjoyed my first few playthroughs of Terraforming Mars, but I too felt that 1. It drags. 2. Players have their heads down looking at their crap. Its still very very good, but I like Euros with heads *up* like Great Western Trail more.
I like both Terraforming Mars and Great Western Trail but TM feels more satisfying. Unless you have a really horrible luck with the cards you get, you will end TM with the sense you built something and last turn or two you are just milking points while in Great Western trail the game ends at the exact time what I was building is online so I don't get the pay off more than once.
Nah he's right, it's basically a solitaire game inside a multiplayer game. You pay attention so you don't miss marks and draft cuts, but mostly you play your game with your head down. The interaction is minimal, and i honestly couldn't disagree more with the "satisfaction" after the game ends. Although my score keeps improving game after game i find the game to be mostly boring.
It has great qualities and pros. But to me it's one of the most boring experiences i've ever played.
Sure i'm not much into board games and let alone euro games for that matter, but still, for a game with this praise and reputation i find it really overrated. Even after 5 games.
Dead on. Someone should make a board to tally those symbols and free up the space.
thing is, this game isn't about terraforming mars: it's about colonizing Mars. these are profit driven companies, using the marketing opportunity of "creating a new home for humanity" to hide the shadey things they need to do to achieve that end, and to increase their profits. I love this game, but think it would be cooler if it leaned into that.
Interesting take on this game. I think the solo mode is great. I love the theme. I don’t have a problem with the take that elements & to be fair if you don’t like those cards just don’t play them. Drafting makes the game much better. But it can go on to long & we all know how naff the components are.
I don't have a problem with them, I just think their implementation was boring.
No Pun Included - Great. Then neither of us has a problem . (Well that’s not strictly true but I’m more comfortable discussing those issues with my doctor).
If you don't use the take that cards, Ecoline becomes VERY powerful, since plants are a very efficient source of VP (1 TR, 1 board point and 1 per adjacent city).
It is really painful though at times. I've had games where I was Saturn and got hacked, power-tapped and had my titanium production stolen all by turn 3.
With the expansion, 200+ solo games. Play it once a week. I do enjoy the challenge.
PAUL F***IN LOVES BEARS.
Looking great, Efka!
I've seen on Amazon that there's a premium pack version. What's the difference between them? I want to buy but I need to know first.
"It will never be my favourite game."
Well, it will never cease to be my favourite game!
Those card shuffling skills tho
Good move not mentioning the cost-benefit analysis post on BGG that can tell you specifically and unequivocally if a move is optimal or not and illustrate just how poorly you actually play the game.
Awesome that Elaine could appear on camera at least a little : D.
A "heartbreak" game for me--I want to love it, but it's on our dud shelf. I did love it at first, bought some overlays for the player mats and all. But, only ever playing 2p, after a while we rejected it, after a while gave it another chance, after a while rejected it again. The excessive length is easily adjusted by house ruling the game end conditions; still, it overstays its welcome at any length for me. It's much more fun in the early stages when you're devising your engine than in the later stages when you have specific needs and hope the cards hit you. There are imbalances and lucky swings that leave me sour--a matter of taste, but I'm competitive like that. But watching this made me want to try again--some sessions go better than others, and it's pretty fun when it doesn't nosedive. I'm jealous of the many people who love it.
You said on Twitter that we might sense a subtle difference in approach. Maybe...not sure, but yeah, maybe. At any rate, this was an excellent review.
not different, just, more polish.
ToadInTheWoods - I agree that it can over stay it’s welcome. Playing with AP prone players is shear purgatory, waiting for your turn to come round.
I play with a variant where players have a certain number of rounds (11 in two player, 9 in three player and 8 in 4 player) to reach the end game conditions otherwise everyone loses. Thematically it's Earth is dying and unless you can make Mars sustainable by the time Earth is destroyed, humanity dies. It's helped a lot with game length and adds a nice tension to the game.
Atlas Films That's a very interesting idea. I'll definitely want to try that if we do pull this out again.
I recommend focusing harder on standard projects, you shouldn't ever be waiting on specific cards. The standard projects are deceptively strong, we shortened our game length considerably by giving them more of a shot and weighing how often cards actually deliver the value you invest in them. It's also a viable strategy to rush to terraform as fast as possible to shut out players going for a card heavy strategy. If that still keeps the game too long you can use the rule from the Venus expansion where the start player each round moves one of the terraforming tracks up one spot or places an ocean at the end of each generation for free on behalf of the Earth government, with nobody getting that bonus. Definitely shaves a round or two off the game.
Spot on review! I will always play it, but I will never love it.
Love your videos, and love when you get hit in this one...
took five takes...
@@NoPunIncluded still better than the guy on Pantera's Vulgar Display of Power ;)
4:50
hahahahahahhaha nice.
nice one!
Efka looking like a snack
Matt Damon approves of this game.
Good review but it confuses me how so many people can point out all the flaws in this game and yet still come away with a generally positive review. I just bumped against this game really hard and had no desire to try it again after the 5th play.
You look great, less weight and less hair~~~~
Just one more Efka haircut till Essen Spiel 2018!!! xD
Well done :D
Terraforming Mars must be the most successful game with the worst art possible since Monopoly.
You describe my feelings towards this game better than I understand them myself. It is ridiculous where it got on bgg.....still, every time I play it, I enjoy it immensly, not clearly knowing why. Good to know this ambiguity problem od not only mine. Greetings grom Poland (added having watched the Colonialism video).
I simply can't get over the MSRP vs the shitty component quality and card art. Stronghold games is ridiculous and their practice of overcharging for low quality games is laughable. Take Scythe for instance with an app being developed that has been delayed in part because they opted to rebuild it to be more in line with the physical game visually. Then look at the Terraforming Mars app in development. The developers went the smart route and have replaced all the card art from the physical game. Its unfortunate because at $35-$40 this is a decent game but at $70? Get the .... out of town. Nevermind the online discounters, it is a straight joke what they have set the MSRP at. And yes, I own it and the game is not terrible but that doesn't make the price right.
Made in the USA tax.
I just started watching your videos and am still looking for a game you seem to like. They all have complaints that seem to outweigh any praise, which honestly feels pasted on.
Personal excel sheet, lol
Best game ever! Satisfying from start to finish!
I am a simple man. I love Clank In Space. I like pretty games like Everdell. This ain't my cup of tea and it's ugly as heck.
I do not understand the appeal of this game at all
No the game is boring, and can last more than 6 hours. Boring as in repetitive, when you are ahead you are really ahead.
I'm willing to go out on a limb and say you're playing it wrong if it takes six hours. Any game would be boring if you took three times its intended length of play.
We played it right, the game probably should have been 3-5 hours but we had breaks and such. Multiple 4 players sessions with mixed skill levels. Different variant with drafting and such. I love boardgames, but the game is way too much of a drag.
I will even go as far as to say that is a brain dead game after the early to mid game, I will never play it again, another 4-6 hours of this? God no.
How long are your games did you say? We hardly ever go past two hours. Do you do the common mistake of treating a generation as a once-around the table? You keep playing until everyone have passed, then a new generation begins.
That's how we played with drafting, 4 players multiple sessions mixed skills. There are times, I rush toward the finish simply because I want the game to end after 2-3 hours. That never happens besides this game for me because to able to play board games is a treat for me.
eh just another KS game grossly overrated on BGG. So what else is new?
Really wish I could see your face when you find out this has never been on Kickstarter ;)
Pretty sure it was originally. I could be wrong. Won't be the last time if I am.
Google is your friend.
I didn't want to watch further, I like your quality and your energy but you make it seem very bad amd negative, if you could be a little more positive about it, it would be more interesting and fun to watch
It's a review channel, not a boot licking charade