I agree with this sentiment, except the part where it's "obvious now"... for many of us it's been obvious that this was coming since the reintroduction of random rolls in D2 (which is still very welcomed by the way, but it did set the stage) and many disregarded those voices at the beginning. Now that it is finally apparent to most, where do we go from here?
@@cocodriloblanco I was ok with it as long as we didn’t have to regrind weapons we already had god rolls of. Also, that they add awesome new perks and weapons to the pool. They’ve done neither. Not really sure where we go from here.
@@jhenke83 i get it and you're right I'm right there with you, but to add to it what in the history of destiny 2 have they done this? We're ending Season 12 having the same discussions since season 3 i believe... maybe a possible idea would be converting all the weapons to ornaments? We only get one base model ala armor 2.0 that we can get from collections and where we chase perks instead to upgrade? I can elaborate more this train of thought.
It's the best for them. They now have loads of locations, gear they can use as "new" content later because they just can't make content. Our "new" content is d1 stuff, cut content from d1, reissued gear from d2 ect. It bs. Bungie is an empty shell of what it was and now they are focusing on doing the minimum for full prices.....! I'm out. I'm not paying for anything else as they will just vault it later. Its a con.
I feel your pain, I started playing Destiny way back on the xbox 360, almost quit college because I got so addicted to it (thankfully I didn't),some of my most cherished gaming memories happened in Destiny, who ever thought of implementing Planned obsolescence for gear...in a fucking MMO-esque looter shooter is braindead
Lol power creep. My black armory armor is the same as any other armor you can get in the game. My guns are the same as all the other guns in the game. What power creep? They stop making pinnacle weapons like breakneck because"they were too strong" maybe that was for the best because kill 1000 enemies 250 guardians and play 500 gambit matches was a chore list and tedious to do. Destiny is a bankrupt game at this point
I once read a tweet where someone made one such comparison. I saved it cause I thought it was funny and true. It read: "Without having played Destiny 1, the impression I've gotten of the community collective personality is that of a romantic battered partner. Complains bitterly about abuse in one breath, bends over begging to get fucked the moment the slightest promise of change occurs." This was... back in 2017... lol.
@@JJMomoida You are *exactly* right-that is the relationship between Bungie and the players who _haven't_ had the sense to quit in protest. *FOR BUNGIE WHITE KNIGHTS ONLY:* I don't care what you say. There is no _logical_ defense for Destiny any more. I haven't played since... 2017, ironically, but *_You_* play all you want. You _are_ still allowed to like the game, it just *isn't* _objectively_ good.
Destiny as a franchise is going on 7 years and they still can't figure it out. It took ESO like 2 years to figure it out. It took World of Warcraft less to figure it out. I don't know what Bungie wants to do with this game besides making it feel like a mobile game.
As I’ve said before, Fireteam chat is basically the only Destiny content I watch anymore. I’m not sure if it’s because Bungie’s philosophy for the game has forced me to become more casual, or if I’ve simply changed, but the opinions I hear on this show feel like they more reflect myself and other average players of the game. I feel this is the best show to get the common player’s views and hear their frustrations. I certainly feel like my perspective is most reflected here than on any other channel.
It’s been 6 years guys. Bungie simply don’t have the ability to deliver a consistent experience. It’s a constant case of one step forward, two steps back. A good idea implemented here, then removed for no apparent reason. They have no idea what they’re doing, or where they’re going. I’ve invested so much money and time; and after six years, this game has gone nowhere. Terrible storytelling, rubbish loot, bugs everywhere, broken pvp. The best way to describe this game is ‘uninspired’. The people that had the original creative vision for this game have long gone; this game just feels like a cash cow for them now; and that’s it. I’m out.
Beyond Light is the 2nd worst expansion ever, with Shadowkeep keep being the worst Even Curse of Osiris introduced new and interesting weapons with the forge and most were good, 2 great strikes and some good new Crucible maps
@@ghostacc8687 Actually I also think Opulence was bad, only good thing of that was the raid and it was still meh I didn't like Menagerie, just because I don't like mindless horde modes and the mechanics just felt more of a hassle than something fun, I still got my Shadow but it wasn't fun as a whole
Ok well my sentiment and everyone else's against Bungie's statement is this: We paid for expansions and saying a major studio can't have a vendor refresh to make it interesting is straight up lazy at best but more disgustingly untrue at the present, worst.
Sunsetting is a disaster. We now are forced to live with vacancies, reissued weapons and poor RNG being much more damaging. The new weapons have been mostly underwheling and now Bungie has to develop many more weapons simply to keep up and make it a zero-sum exercise. And Bungie is going to double down on it because it’s what they do...
I played through every downtime in D1 and D2, I love this game and nothing could make me stop playing. Not even Curse of Osiris. Sunsetting made me stop playing. I haven’t played in weeks. I’m not even sure I want to bother logging in to turn in my 20k+ crucible tokens.
Thats not a big deal, play-wise. But the reason for this is, strikes are meant to be a "moment in time" rather than you doing this mission in the present. And I believe the same goes for raids, dungeons, replaying old content etc etc.
Bring back Factions. Give them bounties. Then rotate bounties through each faction. New Monarchy-Gambit. FWC-Crucible Dead Orbit-Strikes Then swap the bounties around weekly along with armor and weapon focused engrams to purchase from each vendor. It could even be the old ornaments we could purchase separately.
@UCo4xcOA8kWdeUDU2DH4RRhw How are you leading people when I ask "How is this garbage" and I've yet to get any type of answer. You couldn't even lead actual sheep. You've listened to other people say faction rallies were garbage and REPEATED THEM. No reason. Repeated them WORD FOR WORD. You are the very definition of a sheep 😂
Great fucking solution. Also allow us to passively level up our faction by just playing the game like they did in D1. For example completing a patrol or a raid gains you reputation.
Bungie contradicted themselves when they said they had to have sunsetting because of power creep, but in the same breath saying sunsetting allows them to make more powerful weapons. Unfortunately a bunch of smooth brains decided to ignore that giant contradiction and support the idea. Now it seems the final horses have crossed the line and realized how absolutely fucking stupid sunsetting was and is.
Reissuing weapons? Sounds like a whole lot of bullshit and laziness to me seems like Bungie enjoys killing itself. New season is going to be disappointing
@@willdill7253 yes, d1 had a sunset/reissuing weapon mechanic too, but it wasn't THIS bad. this is actually 300 times worse than the old d1 days. please don't compare
Its the reason I stopped playing altogether, there's no point in me investing a penny into the game if they are just going to take it away when they feel like it because why do the work to balance when you can just take the easy road and remove everything. I don't know what the game is anymore, buts its not destiny 2, that game was effectively deleted from existence.
@@litaljohn i respect your opinion but alas the things they sunset is things i have not played intentionally for over a year and a half while new players have found them interesting i have been playing and paying since d1 launch its easy to forget that players came before
Yeah same i was a relly hardcore farmer best perks and weapon all full max with a lot of set of armor for my 3 char all went to the shit for one stupid shit decision from bungie :) so i just quit this stupid game.
@peach tea .... but in the same breadth ...how fun is it going to be having to just play on the only relevant planet Europa, for a whole year ? Only areas being upgraded on the Moon and Dreaming city are the instanced dungeons/areas.
@@StuBaybutt what’s your point neglect one game for the other. isn’t that exactly what activision is but they have the money and resources to do it right
Its like ah, if they were to raise the level cap in borderlands. You'd go around looking for slightly higher level versions of the same guns you had with the same stats and effects. No different.
@@Archy871 that’s a single player game with an intentional lvl/ power cap and those updates are also finished dlc that aren’t removing more than half the game too. Not a good comparison at all lol
@@Trocify225 borderlands is a single player game? Like destiny is an “mmo” which uses the same code as halo reach and limits lobbying to 12 players in hosted zones eh? No it’s a great comparison- every time they raise the light level people upgrade their items to stay current.
The moment Bungie started having reskinned Iron banner Armor and weapons come back as “new”, I knew sunsetting was going to be bad for the game! We haven’t had a new Iron banner set or weapons since Shadowkeep release! How did no one see this coming...
it's mostly because of lying to the common player former and to all of the new players. it blinds them and make them chase things that won't ever happen. correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't really think that after Shadowkeep they ever did "lIsTen tO FEedBaCsks"
Not all was blind to this. I saw this happening, and spoke out about it in chats. Basically got drowned out by the lemmings who can't think for themselves anymore.
Aaaaah!!, ,his still wearing it!!, I thought it was an accident and he just tripped and tumbled around and ended up wearing it as the video started recording
Remember the biggest lie they told us? “ play the way you want”... yeah, right. D1 is STILL the better game. Absolutely insane how they’ve learned nothing all these years later.
They should let us be able to bank our random rolls in collections instead, as the main issue to us, not the excuse Bungie made up, is vault space, out of a maxed 500 cap of gear I probably have like only 5-6 true God roll weapons in there, me personally won't be regrinding any of those rolls because of a level number
Here’s what I would love to not hear from destiny commentators: “we’ll see what happens this season”, “maybe next season yada yada blah blah”. Nothing good ever happens, are you in denial? Does this shitty game have you hostage ?
It literally holds them hostage because their livelihoods are tied to it. Of course they want to spin positivity toward the game to keep people wanting to watch their content
All the cut content like strikes, vendor resets, crucible maps will probably be in the seasons and thats bs that stuff should be additional in the seasons and this sunsetting shit might just kill the game by itself
Anyone who didn't see in advance what Bungie would do with sunsetting, hasn't been paying attention to Bungie over the past couple of years. Bungie is lazy as hell at this point.
I wouldn't say lazy just in over their head when it comes to their vision of destiny in comparisons to its community's vision of destiny. Especially on how hard they try to monetize it to be the next fortnite etc... which clearly it's not.
Trying to force incentive on players will always backfire. If they believed in their ability to craft interesting new content and weapons, they wouldn’t be so concerned about why I’m using Ikelos all the time.
Yeah if I’m already playing your game and enjoying myself what does it matter what weapon I’m using? Luke smith’s clear distain for players playing in a way they have fun has dragged this ip through the mud and killed it.
In the same season they announced sunsetting, worthy, they excused the lack of a pinnacle/ritual/pursuit on having to choose between trials weapons and pinnacle. It was obvious from the get go that sunsetting would never work.
Two things I would love to see introduced are... First, a weapon leveling system. Like, give each weapon 3 perks in the 3rd and 4th columns that you have to unlock. You get the first "meh" perks by default, and the 2nd and 3rd perks have to be unlocked by PvE and PvP. Make certain perks, like Fourth Times the Charm or Wellspring, PvE perks that you have to unlock on that weapon by doing different PvE activities, and the other perks, like Quickdraw or Moving Target, PvP perks that you unlock on that weapon by doing different PvP activities. Make the rolls random, but give the weapons both the ability to PvE and PvP. Second, give me a reason to choose my race. Luke wants this game to be an RPG, which is fine, but give the races RPG elements. Like, give Awokens psychic powers like the ability to place a Titan Barricade at range, blink Dodge for Hunter, or a Rift that travels with you on Warlock. Give Humans more strength with their powers like Titan Barricades having more health, traveling further during a Dodge as Hunter, or gaining a bonus to healing or damage with your Rift as Warlock. Give Exos more utility powers like the ability to heal/increase duration of a Titan Barricade, quickdraw and max stability on a Hunter Dodge, and a larger Rift for Warlocks. Maybe not those exact ideas, but something like that, so my choice in race actually matters in this "RPG" game.
Honestly my vault is screaming sunset please but that would not be the case if there was a god roll spread sheet for every legendary weapon instead of just current meta
6:33 Destin hits the nail on the HEAD. The problems were dealt with. Recluse, mountaintop, revoker. Recluse was still strong after Master of Arms was nerfed, but once the range cap was nerfed it meant it was no longer the "must use" gun it was before. I happily ditched recluse after that nerf when Last Hope came back in S9. Now guns are being made incredibly "safe" even though at some point I'm fairly certain we were promised with this rhetoric: "New mountaintops and recluses to chase." (Paraphrase) We would have new powerful weapons that would have their time, and then once that time is done we would have to chase something new. Instead, we have no new mods (mod system was overhauled but not all loader and stat mod combinations that were possible before are still possible now due to cost changes). The best new weapons arguably come from the raid which I don't have a problem with personally bc I love to raid. But the Europa weapons are incredibly weak. Weapon perks as a whole feel like we're slowly being weaned off of kill clip, outlaw, feeding frenzy, rampage, Multikill clip, rampage, swashbuckler, full court, spike grenades, any perk that directly affects damage. And we're being fed just repeat versions of guns that we've already had to say goodbye to in the past. I actually used the DC hand cannon for quite awhile because mine had dragonfly on it. And it was sunset in Beyond Light. Well, here we are a season (or two depending on how you look at it) later and that same hand cannon is being put back into the loot pool. .....why? My jack queen king 3 was my replacement to that hand cannon and it's being sunset next season. It has demolitionist swashbuckler and appended mag (14 mag). I'm sorry to see it go. Now I don't have faith that JQK3 won't be reissued later this year or next year or whatever and I won't be asked to regrind it if I don't wanna be stuck with the raid 180 HC that has the best perks now but... its a 180.
I think imma take a break form Destiny after years of playing... taking our stuff away just ot give it back 3 months later to grind them again like..... this is just too chaotic for me to care during these times. EDIT: I really hope Bungie listens to this episode....really good things were mentioned here (rotating playlists, unnecessarily removed assets/modes etc.)
and Remember there were people who defended this mess. Yes there was a chance for Sun setting to be good , but given Bungie's track record I knew as well as others that it would be a horrible decision.
@HARRYRANTS it would be at least a good way to reintroduce the factions which haven’t been touched for years, plus it would be better than any season we will probably get this entire year since bungie doesn’t seem to know what they are doing. 😁
I was never happy with sun setting when it was first announced. I was skeptical about it cause of how it really cut down the amount of weapons and armor you can use in high end activities.
I loved this game and ever since playing Beyond Light's campaign and saw the grind for the same old weapons I have in my vault I just quit. Haven't played for month's since and always hear it getting worse and worse. On top of so much being vaulted to make room for what really? What's new? Point something out that's worthwhile for me that's new please?
They are sun setting gear because they can't make decent gear. They are so desperate they are relying on taking away gear, destinations so they have some content to try sell us again later. It's sad but destinys best days died when bungie couldn't lean on highmoon an v, visions. Look at how they've treated the community?! They are doing absolutely the minimum to ring cash out of the remaining players. It's sad, but bungie died years ago.
I truly feel there is no incentive to grind or even play. I chase a godroll for nearly a year, all to have my godroll sunset a season down the road, then reissued. I feel like I wasted my time.
Exotics don't even feel special anymore they need to make a higher tier something that's actually very rare with stats and buffs that can completely change the players experience. Also make it memorable , something that you need to succeed in the game. Endgame activity needs to be more difficult whilst having more players instead of having 6 in a team, for example that recent glitch with the 16 player NF it looks so fun to be in and I could see that happening in some type of raid. There could be your normal raids where its 6 players but then you have elite raids that are super challenging a good balance between mechanics and enemies that you have to face but the plus side would be having 7 or 15 other players with you to take on the challenge. They could make specific modifiers that make you want to grind for amour that can counter these modifiers, the modifiers should be on a rotation too so it keeps the gameplay fresh every reset. Elite raid amour should drop rare too but when you get the whole amour set you unlock a special reward bonus or be able to have a higher chance to get elite exotic weaponry or amour.
Everything you earn now drops with a timer, after which it’s useless. Where is the respect for time invested, for grinding hours to get the roll you want - only to see that it’ll be taken away through obsolescence and then you’ll have to re-run the grind. Saw this coming in summer, haven’t played since and refuse to come back until they start respecting my time - years played and none of that times been respected
when paul said something about them working the new rank up system in to strikes in a later season, it made me realize just how much "content" they're putting out that's clearly, and confirmed to be, unfinished and they're just saying "we'll finish it later" absolutely insane. don't release the cosmodrome until the whole thing is done. don't put in a new vendor rank system until it applies to all of them. don't respond to complaints about the loot pool by saying it'll be a sufficient size just in time for half of it to be sunset again, after it already dwindled by 15% every three months. don't make the new subclass with a completely different & objectively superior system while leaving all of the others stuck in their blocks.
Yea only destin out of them were against sunsetting from the get go, its funny all of us that foresee this happening were the only one with an actual functioning brain.
@@mortenlarsen7220 that is true, I remember he wasn't happy and made it clear...I meant more the others and all those streamer tools that said it will be great for new weapons. Hah!
Hey guys, I’ve just returned to D2 for the first time since the game came out. I’m having a lot of fun grinding out the season pass and looking forward to doing the high end Nightfalls and Raids. Really great to see your show again and see where the hardcore D2 players mindsets are at.
My 2 things: 1. On a macro level, I’d put contest modifier as an option everywhere and adjust loot drop for quantity and quality based on it. The best way to make the game larger without adding content is to give difficulty options which challenge us in different ways. 2. On a smaller scale I’d abandon sunsetting, update all Y1 weapons to random rolls and let us pull everything from collections at a high price.
TOLD YOU SOOOOO this was sooooooo obvious from the start this was gonna be bad, and with every DLC getting thinner and them having less dev help how were they gonna make more content
I commented this about 9/8 months ago. Sunsetting would mean less work for Bungie, less time balancing and testing "old stuff" and more time invested in "newer things". The problem is that it became very evident that to bypass "time" they intended to bring back old guns, re-issuing them. Do you guys think that the gnawing hunger, last season wasn't a planned move? Of course, it was, they brought it back to test the waters, to see our reaction to it. The feedback they saw was "at least bring it back with newer perks", but the majority of people didn't care about sunsetting because we were getting rid of Recluse, Mountain top, and Revoker. These weapons left a void, a void that not a single weapon in this season/expansion filled. Ex: Marty's for example, a wave frame GL that spawns WARMIND CELLS. Does the replacement for it, Deafening Wisper, does the same? Of course not, "imagine having such powerful weapon in the PvE sandbox" - Luke Smith. (it's a Reddit meme, he did not say that but we all imagine that from him at this point). This feels like I'm constantly replacing guns that I enjoy using and the replacements aren't as good, and the fact that these replacements will eventually be sunset for more replacements is just... Why did no one think about how awful it would be? Oh wait, Aztecross did it, MTashed (the anime guy as we all know him), and many others. But hey Bungie only listens to feedback if it comes from Datto right? Yeah.
I don't know how anyone still manages to get excited for destiny. I mean every time they do something new they mess it up. We're in what year 3 or 4? They still keep experimenting with core systems and just are trying to figure out how the game should work.
No he wasint the only one he said what was gonna happen and so did i and i caught flak for it aswell, and tassi said he think he was caught up in hating Mtop and revoker that he was willing to give up everything else. Imagine being so dumb and blinded by hate towards guns in a game, what the actual fuck.
@@mortenlarsen7220 yeah in the old video i got flamed as well. hillarious how fast people flip flop. been playing destiny since d1 beta. i k ew they would scew up sunsetting. lol. how easily people get baited. want more op guns like recluse? we need sunsetting! what a joke.
@@RazgrizFllaga i was expecting bungie to just say PR stuff and then screw over the players. I was expecting 40 to 50 guns from BL and roughly 10 exotic weapons, turns out i expected 100% too much loot while forsaken had 18 exotic guns and somewhere around 80 legendary guns and they are reissuing 4 of them wow at that pace it will take 20 seasons to reissue all those weapons back but they only need 4 seasons to get nuked.
The whole reason they are even doing this isn't for the better of the game, its cause they just straight up can't deliver enough content. Also if they are worried about the health of the team then maybe they need to realize its time to hire people to help keep up.
They literally pulled all their resources to work on the new ip instead and leave destiny as a cash cow cause idiots will keep buying season passes with minimum content.
@@yourvenparianen5390 well personally I buy the deluxe every year.. so I get every season but don't know if they will be god or not.. just suck that what I want from destiny will most likely come from their other game whenever that is and destiny will get left behind.
What blows my mind is that Bungie can add seasonal ornaments in the season pass (paid for) and on Eververse (paid for) for weapons and armor. All they have to do is make a new skin/ornament weapons/armor and introduce it into the game as rewards. Heck, quick nerfs to subclasses and a dragonfly perks, seem to be more important than what the balance of the game. New Europa weapons were introduced, and how in the world can they NOT do this on many more levels within the game?? PvE content ends so quickly for exploring content and obtaining weapons, then it becomes boring. PvP becomes unbalanced and not addressed appropriately. Sunsetting and giving the community the vision of a a constant repeated experience. I think the saying goes, "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing OVER AND OVER, and expecting the same results." @FireteamChat , awesome coverage and input/feedback! Thank you! @Bungie LISTEN to the PEOPLE/COMMUNITY that SUPPORT YOU !!
Correct me if I'm wrong guys.... But when I first saw the system ff14 implemented, having like 2 separate games, pve and pvp is its own thing..... I thought to myself, wooow that's the thing every rpg need to do That's the answer to balance pve and pvp.... U can't u have to separate them
Here’s my thought of what we could do about sunsetting. Every season they should introduce an item that allows you to choose a set number of weapons getting or is sunsetted, and allow then to infuse and bring it to the cap. That mitigates the burn out of sunset, because players will still be able to run their favorite guns, and can still allow them to rotate the meta like they like. It also help the bigger problem of destiny that simply bungie wants you to play their game how they like it. There’s little to no player agency these days and to be able to pick the weapons you want can help that feeling
This whole sunsetting issue reminds me of D2’s launch. The community was vigorously against duel primary, static rolls on gear, and 4v4. It took Bungie a whole year + the feedback from the beta testing - to finally eat crow and put the game back to the way it was. And that was after massive amounts of players left the game. I’m seeing that now on my roster and on my streamer feeds. Players are leaving over sunsetting and Stasis PvP imbalances.
Thanks! When I was neck deep into Destiny 2, Fireteam chat spoke the most to me out of all the channels. Even though I've left Destiny, I still watch FTC because I think Destiny has a lot of potential, but it's hampered solely and mired by most poorly monetized MMO design: progression and end game. Players have to feel adequately rewarded for their time spent in a game. When this doesn't happen and after the first blush fades, the community will contract to only the die-hards, which is never good. The worst part of Destiny 2 is that the story is secondary to the gameplay. Metas are not the problem. I hope all the problems are just transitional issues and that I can return to thie F2P that I PAID for (still grumbly about THAT) and feel that my time is respected and earned by the devs.
You could have the vendors read the grimoire entries when you earned them, sure more voice acting, but we'd hear the story, most people don't read the cards.
Never any new DLC in Destiny that is good tho is there? Yes the idea of taking away things you have paid for- to then sell you reskins of the same thing is bad. Especially when they remove so much and offer so less in return. Luke smith is a troll- and probably enjoys doing this to you. But more than anything, it demonstrates how little development went into Destiny 2 after Destiny 1- with the game yet again falling into the same content limits and file size limits no other game seems to suffer from- just Destiny....
Bungee doesn’t have trouble making weapons and armor. It’s one of the easiest things they can create. They are being lazy, look at all the new Eververse armor and weapon skins. If they put that same effort into world drops Destiny could be great again!
Destin nailing every reason I stopped playing. The main reason I quit back in Black Armory was that my time was not respected. Not only is the treadmill of repeating content a second full time job ~ But the rewards for playing are constantly taken away. Nothing you do is worth the time and effort required.
tbh, anything you earn from the current season vendor and the Europa location (inlcuding the Raid and the armor and guns from Last Wish and Garden of Salvation) has an infusion cap of 1410. That is a full year of seasons, 50 power per season till Witch Queen. So masterworking Beyond Light armor (and above) actually is worth the effort. So ascendant shards are a good reward IMO, especially for people who don't have hundreds of masterwork cores.
7-years and I put up with it all. Content droughts, bad meta, bugs, and cheaters. I was willing to continue supporting Bungie. Sunset was the last red-line. It’s a clear slap in the face. A clear sign of just not caring at all about your communities time and investment. What’s it’s done is kill my motivation to even grind the same activity. In my mind there is a block. Why am I doing this simply to lose this and have to do it again.
Only hardcore fanbois wouldn't of seen this coming. From the announcement of sunsetting it was pretty clear the reason for it, Bungo dont want to create content and this co,bined with the DCV will help fill in the next couple of years until the end of the game. Matter is their only concern, and the only goal with Destiny now is to see how much money they can bleed out of the remaining player base and new players. The best thing for Destiny is for Bungie to sell the IP off, fark I'd be happy with Ubisoft taking the reigns as atleast they actually work on games.
We were also told that old weapons were good in most of the game,this is not what happened at all and armour! never got the reason for that esp with the price of masterworking.
Speaking of armor, I had an idea. How about intrinsic perks for armor sets, a lá Assassin's Creed: Valhalla? Equip all pieces and get a boost to mobility, for example, or have a chance to drop ammo for your fireteam. Reverse the armor sunsetting, add perks to chase, so no 2 sets are the same. Transmog would be relevant, so armor would actually be interesting.
Destin, yes! I had to pause the video to comment at 6:15. Yes, yes, yes. Armor Sunsetting was ludicrous. I was only marginally concerned with weapons, but armor...are you serious? I spent 4 seasons getting enough Masterwork Cores to Masterwork my armor and had it looking and feeling just right for my modest, "I was obsessed with being the one support Defender Titan in D1" build, to have it all taken away. That was the final nail for me after over 6 years. They had clearly lost touch with me as a player: the person who played Destiny for 10 maybe more hours a week and loved just playing the Nightfall and infusing a few items. I can not play for the grind. I grind because I enjoy playing. Or at least I once did.
I'm excited to farm some Altar of Sorrows for a few Moon weapons. Glad you're still here Destin. Edit: Completely agree with Travis on collections. I had the same thought when they introduced random rolls just after releasing collections. It's ridiculous. Edit 2: My body is ready for more Fireteam Chat in 2021.
The recycled guns, and sunsetting any armor makes no sense in terms of why Bungie said they did sunsetting in the 1st place. They should have only sunset pinnacle and ritual weapons (the legendary weapons in the Monument to Lost Lights). Nothing else needs to be sunset. The only thing sunsetting is doing is “deincentivizing” me from wanting to play at all. I feel like I’m just borrowing the loot in the game.
I'm seeing a lot of negative comments about sun setting here (and I am 100% behind you. Sunsetting is a terrible idea and I was deadset against it when it was announced), so I'm gonna go ahead and try something a little more positive based off the question of what I'd improve/change. I've been playing some D1 recently with a friend who started shortly before Shadowkeep dropped, so they never experience D1 at all. Whilst I've been on it, we've both gone, "this is a good system"; "why is this not in the game" etc about a few things. The one that grabs my attention the most though was the way factions were set up. Not necessarily the Vanguard, but Crucible and the outlier factions of New Monarchy, Dead Orbit and FWC. You could hand in stuff you've picked up, motes of light, heavy/special ammo synths etc and get a rank up package. You could choose whether you wanted weapon or armour, or even a fancy chroma set. You would then also get a shader, emblem, a ghost(!) and maybe a ship/sparrow related to that faction. In addition to that you had rank system with certain items for sale at each rank up to three, as well as all the rolls on the weapons and armour changing weekly with reset. Oh, and you got faction rep passively by doing patrols, doing strikes, doing a RAID, doing bounties etc. Much better system than what we have now, although this new proposed one takes us in that direction
They're going to have to remove sunsetting and implement seasonal characters like in diablo 3 so that people can choose at beginning of every season whether or not you want to play the new season with your old regular character like normal or make a new seasonal character with a fresh seasonal vault, and have ranked leaderboards in-game for who does what fastest etc. And then at the end of the season, your seasonal loot gets sent to whichever old regular character you want. This way if people want to play destiny like it was before sunsetting but with all the new seasonal stuff, they can do that, or if they want a seasonal fresh start with more focus on the new seasonal loot, they can do that instead. Of course seasonal characters only matchmake with other seasonals. Just a thought.
I had an insanely good Retold Tale. Full Choke, Accurized, Slideshot, Moving Target, Range masterwork. That was the one time I got good RNG on a Forsaken weapon. I don't want to grind for it again and will likely never get anything close.
They could have made it part of the story that Savathun "corrupted" our existing weapons and armor. Even some old barely used exotics could have been "infected". Would have been a smooth way to get players to go after a mix of old and new stuff.
Destiny 1 had it right with Motes of Light! We need to get back to that. Time invested playing what you want= leveling your arsenal vs farming materials to do so.
Anyone else think it'd be interesting if they brought in a system to scale enemy difficulty based on the number of guardians in the fireteam (Like borderlands). Ultimately I think it would be awesome to break the fireteam restrictions on certain events and be able to go into the activity with 1-6 guardians and have the enemies scale to you. I know this might break a few things and it wouldn't be the easiest thing to implement but I'm curious if anyone else thinks that'd be fun or just like the worst idea you ever heard.
The problem with sunsetting is unless its trials or iron banner you can use any weapons because light doesn't matter. It hurts build diversity in end game content. Armor should have set bonuses. Trial armor, gambit, crucible, raids and vanguard should have a reason to wear them and a set bonus would help. I know everyone will complain about vault space but with sunsetting what are you really keeping in there?
I like to warm up some food and eat while watching Fireteam Chat, really enjoyable podcast, sad to see you go Destin but at the same time I'm happy for you! You'll have a great family, best wishes to you, your wife and child :) Fireteam chat does mean something to me, happy that it'll be around with my boii Travis leading, can't wait for that! But this whole ordeal with sunsetting is only getting worse, i have a Vouchsafe that i used alot, never dismantle it in hopes of it someday returning but sadly now we have to re grind for the weapons and it feels wrong. I agree with Travis, Bungie should rotate everything, have all 3 dungeons rotate as the pinnacle drop weekly, same with the Raids, it'll refresh the game a bit, empire hunts should have been Strikes... Throw them in with the Playlist, at least it'll make the Playlist a bit different. Every returning weapon and armor set, should get a upgradable option for people who already have them, i don't know what bungie is thinking doing all of this, this all feels like we are getting less content and more content getting removed just to get reissued later, doesn't make any sense, i fear someday I'll stop playing it, everytime it becomes less fun.
It’s obvious now Bungie used sunsetting as a crutch to stretch out their development times.
I agree with this sentiment, except the part where it's "obvious now"... for many of us it's been obvious that this was coming since the reintroduction of random rolls in D2 (which is still very welcomed by the way, but it did set the stage) and many disregarded those voices at the beginning. Now that it is finally apparent to most, where do we go from here?
i recommend watching cammycake's video on sunsetting to get a good perspective on the situation
@@cocodriloblanco I was ok with it as long as we didn’t have to regrind weapons we already had god rolls of. Also, that they add awesome new perks and weapons to the pool. They’ve done neither. Not really sure where we go from here.
@@jhenke83 i get it and you're right I'm right there with you, but to add to it what in the history of destiny 2 have they done this? We're ending Season 12 having the same discussions since season 3 i believe... maybe a possible idea would be converting all the weapons to ornaments? We only get one base model ala armor 2.0 that we can get from collections and where we chase perks instead to upgrade? I can elaborate more this train of thought.
@@willdill7253 I've seen too many already, but I'll give it a whirl.
Sun setting is the absolute worst thing bungie has ever done to destiny
For the second time...
It's the best for them. They now have loads of locations, gear they can use as "new" content later because they just can't make content. Our "new" content is d1 stuff, cut content from d1, reissued gear from d2 ect. It bs. Bungie is an empty shell of what it was and now they are focusing on doing the minimum for full prices.....! I'm out. I'm not paying for anything else as they will just vault it later. Its a con.
Recycled road map till the end, all hands are on the new IP
Nah.. It was promoting Luke Smith.
@@josephh374 Exactly. Tencent on board its all about microtransactions and earning as much as possible from limited investment.
Sunsetting has destroyed my love for the game. All of my time...wasted.
I feel your pain. The worst part is people seem to not be listening. 6 years of my life. Thanks Luke!
I feel your pain, I started playing Destiny way back on the xbox 360, almost quit college because I got so addicted to it (thankfully I didn't),some of my most cherished gaming memories happened in Destiny, who ever thought of implementing Planned obsolescence for gear...in a fucking MMO-esque looter shooter is braindead
@@simplebryll123 braindead? Super lazy as well.
"We're sunsetting because of power creep." - The same people that forgot to playtest Stasis.
They just don't care anymore. They only want more cash from Everworse.
Same people added lament
@@Zeonis eh. Lament wiff's on the heavy attack like half of the time for me. I stopped using it and just stick with Guillotine or something else.
power creep was just the excuse.
Lol power creep. My black armory armor is the same as any other armor you can get in the game. My guns are the same as all the other guns in the game. What power creep? They stop making pinnacle weapons like breakneck because"they were too strong" maybe that was for the best because kill 1000 enemies 250 guardians and play 500 gambit matches was a chore list and tedious to do.
Destiny is a bankrupt game at this point
Sunset Luke Smith, he has mismanaged this game to a point that we may not be able to recover from..
Destiny 2 going on it’s 4th year and we still saying “wait and see”.... damn shame we truly in a abusive relationship.
I once read a tweet where someone made one such comparison. I saved it cause I thought it was funny and true. It read:
"Without having played Destiny 1, the impression I've gotten of the community collective personality is that of a romantic battered partner. Complains bitterly about abuse in one breath, bends over begging to get fucked the moment the slightest promise of change occurs."
This was... back in 2017... lol.
@@JJMomoida You are *exactly* right-that is the relationship between Bungie and the players who _haven't_ had the sense to quit in protest. *FOR BUNGIE WHITE KNIGHTS ONLY:* I don't care what you say. There is no _logical_ defense for Destiny any more. I haven't played since... 2017, ironically, but *_You_* play all you want. You _are_ still allowed to like the game, it just *isn't* _objectively_ good.
Just wanted to say what flavor koolaid?
Destiny as a franchise is going on 7 years and they still can't figure it out. It took ESO like 2 years to figure it out. It took World of Warcraft less to figure it out. I don't know what Bungie wants to do with this game besides making it feel like a mobile game.
As I’ve said before, Fireteam chat is basically the only Destiny content I watch anymore. I’m not sure if it’s because Bungie’s philosophy for the game has forced me to become more casual, or if I’ve simply changed, but the opinions I hear on this show feel like they more reflect myself and other average players of the game. I feel this is the best show to get the common player’s views and hear their frustrations. I certainly feel like my perspective is most reflected here than on any other channel.
It’s been 6 years guys. Bungie simply don’t have the ability to deliver a consistent experience. It’s a constant case of one step forward, two steps back. A good idea implemented here, then removed for no apparent reason. They have no idea what they’re doing, or where they’re going. I’ve invested so much money and time; and after six years, this game has gone nowhere. Terrible storytelling, rubbish loot, bugs everywhere, broken pvp. The best way to describe this game is ‘uninspired’. The people that had the original creative vision for this game have long gone; this game just feels like a cash cow for them now; and that’s it. I’m out.
Once you step away from the game and break the addiction of playing its easy to see how much bad there is in this franchise. Glad I left.
Storytelling has gotten much better
@@saking91kingsley43 And it’s still not very good
Captured my thoughts exactly.
oh please its not that bad lol. take a break and come back if it gets better.
They could’ve simply sunset the pinnacle weapons and that’s it
Was this expansion honestly an expansion, we lost more than we got? bungie, I still have brain cells
No its not im so glad I didn't buy this expansion I would rather buy warmind again tbh.
No, hell no
Beyond Light is the 2nd worst expansion ever, with Shadowkeep keep being the worst
Even Curse of Osiris introduced new and interesting weapons with the forge and most were good, 2 great strikes and some good new Crucible maps
@@brooksmanis7782 I bought expansion with all seasons for the year. A massive hit towards my wallet, was it worth it?
@@ghostacc8687 Actually I also think Opulence was bad, only good thing of that was the raid and it was still meh
I didn't like Menagerie, just because I don't like mindless horde modes and the mechanics just felt more of a hassle than something fun, I still got my Shadow but it wasn't fun as a whole
Ok well my sentiment and everyone else's against Bungie's statement is this: We paid for expansions and saying a major studio can't have a vendor refresh to make it interesting is straight up lazy at best but more disgustingly untrue at the present, worst.
Sunsetting is a disaster. We now are forced to live with vacancies, reissued weapons and poor RNG being much more damaging. The new weapons have been mostly underwheling and now Bungie has to develop many more weapons simply to keep up and make it a zero-sum exercise. And Bungie is going to double down on it because it’s what they do...
I played through every downtime in D1 and D2, I love this game and nothing could make me stop playing. Not even Curse of Osiris. Sunsetting made me stop playing. I haven’t played in weeks. I’m not even sure I want to bother logging in to turn in my 20k+ crucible tokens.
Addiction
@@Archy871 how do you figure?
@@copyrock "...nothing could make me stop playing."
"...NOTHING could make me stop playing."
N O T H I N G.
I meant none of the dry times or bad content. Context clues champ.
Still get excited when I see Fireteam Chat pop up in my feed. Look forward to every week and now every other week.
Update the dialogue to old strikes. It's weird that Cayde is dead then play a strike and he talks in the strike
And for some odd reason the dialog order is off
Thats not a big deal, play-wise. But the reason for this is, strikes are meant to be a "moment in time" rather than you doing this mission in the present. And I believe the same goes for raids, dungeons, replaying old content etc etc.
agreed
Shhh if bungie notice then their solution will just be to remove those strikes
@@Mrexedyy alot of new strikes are set up to be always in real time so its weird
Bring back Factions.
Give them bounties.
Then rotate bounties through each faction.
New Monarchy-Gambit.
FWC-Crucible
Dead Orbit-Strikes
Then swap the bounties around weekly along with armor and weapon focused engrams to purchase from each vendor. It could even be the old ornaments we could purchase separately.
@HARRYRANTS How were they garbage?
@HARRYRANTS What kind of child like brainless answer is this? Never mind. I just answered my own question
That's what I was thinking lol
@UCo4xcOA8kWdeUDU2DH4RRhw How are you leading people when I ask "How is this garbage" and I've yet to get any type of answer. You couldn't even lead actual sheep. You've listened to other people say faction rallies were garbage and REPEATED THEM. No reason. Repeated them WORD FOR WORD. You are the very definition of a sheep 😂
Great fucking solution. Also allow us to passively level up our faction by just playing the game like they did in D1. For example completing a patrol or a raid gains you reputation.
Bungie contradicted themselves when they said they had to have sunsetting because of power creep, but in the same breath saying sunsetting allows them to make more powerful weapons.
Unfortunately a bunch of smooth brains decided to ignore that giant contradiction and support the idea. Now it seems the final horses have crossed the line and realized how absolutely fucking stupid sunsetting was and is.
Yes. Yes
Reissuing weapons? Sounds like a whole lot of bullshit and laziness to me seems like Bungie enjoys killing itself. New season is going to be disappointing
reissuing weapons? almost like theyve been doing the exact same thing since d1 y1
@@willdill7253 yes, d1 had a sunset/reissuing weapon mechanic too, but it wasn't THIS bad. this is actually 300 times worse than the old d1 days. please don't compare
@@peratattica yeah what they are doing now is much worse
@@willdill7253 What they are doing now makes what they did in D1 look fucking godly
@@elchancho8432 how literally every raid weapon outside of kings fall was a reissue of some previously established weapon model
Its the reason I stopped playing altogether, there's no point in me investing a penny into the game if they are just going to take it away when they feel like it because why do the work to balance when you can just take the easy road and remove everything. I don't know what the game is anymore, buts its not destiny 2, that game was effectively deleted from existence.
I never felt like the loot itself defined destiny that it is the worlds and gameplay itself
They sunset multiple planets strikes activities MP maps raids and the campaign as well
@@litaljohn i respect your opinion but alas the things they sunset is things i have not played intentionally for over a year and a half while new players have found them interesting i have been playing and paying since d1 launch its easy to forget that players came before
Yeah same i was a relly hardcore farmer best perks and weapon all full max with a lot of set of armor for my 3 char all went to the shit for one stupid shit decision from bungie :) so i just quit this stupid game.
@peach tea ....
but in the same breadth ...how fun is it going to be having to just play on the only relevant planet Europa, for a whole year ? Only areas being upgraded on the Moon and Dreaming city are the instanced dungeons/areas.
Bungie only focused on MATTER ip that’s very clear now
Hope that shit fails
Yep
@@StuBaybutt what’s your point neglect one game for the other. isn’t that exactly what activision is but they have the money and resources to do it right
@@orakekileer1552 same
They probably have like 10 people at most working on destiny giving the least amount of effort to just milk idiots who keep playing this garbage game
Imagine sun setting weapons only to bring them back a season later😂🤣🤣🤣 to grind them all over again
Don't have to imagine. Its our reality
Its like ah, if they were to raise the level cap in borderlands. You'd go around looking for slightly higher level versions of the same guns you had with the same stats and effects.
No different.
@@BSUxFAN29 it’s bullshit
@@Archy871 that’s a single player game with an intentional lvl/ power cap and those updates are also finished dlc that aren’t removing more than half the game too. Not a good comparison at all lol
@@Trocify225 borderlands is a single player game?
Like destiny is an “mmo” which uses the same code as halo reach and limits lobbying to 12 players in hosted zones eh? No it’s a great comparison- every time they raise the light level people upgrade their items to stay current.
They are killing this game
No bro Luke Smith is killing destiny 2 he's bad for bungie as well
The moment Bungie started having reskinned Iron banner Armor and weapons come back as “new”, I knew sunsetting was going to be bad for the game! We haven’t had a new Iron banner set or weapons since Shadowkeep release! How did no one see this coming...
it's mostly because of lying to the common player former and to all of the new players. it blinds them and make them chase things that won't ever happen. correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't really think that after Shadowkeep they ever did "lIsTen tO FEedBaCsks"
Not all was blind to this. I saw this happening, and spoke out about it in chats. Basically got drowned out by the lemmings who can't think for themselves anymore.
Actually since season 5, they have kept recycling them.
@@peratattica Theyve never listened to feedback.
Activision just laughing at bungie now.
Look at that drip!! Tassi looks like he is wearing my grandmas old couch! 😂
Hahahahah it's hilarious, he should use it in every video
Oh don’t criticize our socialist high commander!
this comment needs more likes
Aaaaah!!, ,his still wearing it!!, I thought it was an accident and he just tripped and tumbled around and ended up wearing it as the video started recording
Couch is the new black
Remember the biggest lie they told us? “ play the way you want”... yeah, right.
D1 is STILL the better game. Absolutely insane how they’ve learned nothing all these years later.
Sunsetting: how to help a looter shooter last longer with ZERO new gear.
Bingo!
That should be the title on bungies website and bet you they still won't do shit
Bungie should release a poll asking weather we want sunset or not. I'm sure at least 80% of the cummunity including myself don't want it !
Agree.
They should let us be able to bank our random rolls in collections instead, as the main issue to us, not the excuse Bungie made up, is vault space, out of a maxed 500 cap of gear I probably have like only 5-6 true God roll weapons in there, me personally won't be regrinding any of those rolls because of a level number
I quite frankly think they should have just made a new game
Here’s what I would love to not hear from destiny commentators: “we’ll see what happens this season”, “maybe next season yada yada blah blah”. Nothing good ever happens, are you in denial? Does this shitty game have you hostage ?
It literally holds them hostage because their livelihoods are tied to it. Of course they want to spin positivity toward the game to keep people wanting to watch their content
All the cut content like strikes, vendor resets, crucible maps will probably be in the seasons and thats bs that stuff should be additional in the seasons and this sunsetting shit might just kill the game by itself
@@MaZeH2O lol no?
Anyone who didn't see in advance what Bungie would do with sunsetting, hasn't been paying attention to Bungie over the past couple of years. Bungie is lazy as hell at this point.
I wouldn't say lazy just in over their head when it comes to their vision of destiny in comparisons to its community's vision of destiny. Especially on how hard they try to monetize it to be the next fortnite etc... which clearly it's not.
Trying to force incentive on players will always backfire. If they believed in their ability to craft interesting new content and weapons, they wouldn’t be so concerned about why I’m using Ikelos all the time.
Yeah if I’m already playing your game and enjoying myself what does it matter what weapon I’m using? Luke smith’s clear distain for players playing in a way they have fun has dragged this ip through the mud and killed it.
In the same season they announced sunsetting, worthy, they excused the lack of a pinnacle/ritual/pursuit on having to choose between trials weapons and pinnacle. It was obvious from the get go that sunsetting would never work.
Two things I would love to see introduced are...
First, a weapon leveling system. Like, give each weapon 3 perks in the 3rd and 4th columns that you have to unlock. You get the first "meh" perks by default, and the 2nd and 3rd perks have to be unlocked by PvE and PvP. Make certain perks, like Fourth Times the Charm or Wellspring, PvE perks that you have to unlock on that weapon by doing different PvE activities, and the other perks, like Quickdraw or Moving Target, PvP perks that you unlock on that weapon by doing different PvP activities. Make the rolls random, but give the weapons both the ability to PvE and PvP.
Second, give me a reason to choose my race. Luke wants this game to be an RPG, which is fine, but give the races RPG elements. Like, give Awokens psychic powers like the ability to place a Titan Barricade at range, blink Dodge for Hunter, or a Rift that travels with you on Warlock. Give Humans more strength with their powers like Titan Barricades having more health, traveling further during a Dodge as Hunter, or gaining a bonus to healing or damage with your Rift as Warlock. Give Exos more utility powers like the ability to heal/increase duration of a Titan Barricade, quickdraw and max stability on a Hunter Dodge, and a larger Rift for Warlocks. Maybe not those exact ideas, but something like that, so my choice in race actually matters in this "RPG" game.
Sunsetting is being done in the worst possible way they could do it. It needs to go away.
Oh we're sorry, here have a few old weapons back. It will only cost you 4 times the weapons you'll get back... Have fun Grinding!
Lol sunsetting exists because of mountaintop and recluse. Watch them reissue every sunset gun except mountaintop and recluse
Honestly my vault is screaming sunset please but that would not be the case if there was a god roll spread sheet for every legendary weapon instead of just current meta
We told this from the beginning, i still remember paul tassi was a vocal supporter for sunsetting.
True that
He probably still supports the idea of new gear being cycled in, but the way Bungie implemented it just isn't what some of the people hoped for.
No. More. Blues. AUTO-DISMANTLE please!
6:33 Destin hits the nail on the HEAD. The problems were dealt with. Recluse, mountaintop, revoker. Recluse was still strong after Master of Arms was nerfed, but once the range cap was nerfed it meant it was no longer the "must use" gun it was before. I happily ditched recluse after that nerf when Last Hope came back in S9.
Now guns are being made incredibly "safe" even though at some point I'm fairly certain we were promised with this rhetoric: "New mountaintops and recluses to chase." (Paraphrase) We would have new powerful weapons that would have their time, and then once that time is done we would have to chase something new.
Instead, we have no new mods (mod system was overhauled but not all loader and stat mod combinations that were possible before are still possible now due to cost changes). The best new weapons arguably come from the raid which I don't have a problem with personally bc I love to raid. But the Europa weapons are incredibly weak. Weapon perks as a whole feel like we're slowly being weaned off of kill clip, outlaw, feeding frenzy, rampage, Multikill clip, rampage, swashbuckler, full court, spike grenades, any perk that directly affects damage.
And we're being fed just repeat versions of guns that we've already had to say goodbye to in the past. I actually used the DC hand cannon for quite awhile because mine had dragonfly on it. And it was sunset in Beyond Light. Well, here we are a season (or two depending on how you look at it) later and that same hand cannon is being put back into the loot pool. .....why? My jack queen king 3 was my replacement to that hand cannon and it's being sunset next season. It has demolitionist swashbuckler and appended mag (14 mag). I'm sorry to see it go. Now I don't have faith that JQK3 won't be reissued later this year or next year or whatever and I won't be asked to regrind it if I don't wanna be stuck with the raid 180 HC that has the best perks now but... its a 180.
I think imma take a break form Destiny after years of playing... taking our stuff away just ot give it back 3 months later to grind them again like..... this is just too chaotic for me to care during these times.
EDIT: I really hope Bungie listens to this episode....really good things were mentioned here (rotating playlists, unnecessarily removed assets/modes etc.)
and Remember there were people who defended this mess. Yes there was a chance for Sun setting to be good , but given Bungie's track record I knew as well as others that it would be a horrible decision.
Just an idea that I feel would be nice to see would be a black armory related season, but center it around the factions.
@HARRYRANTS it would be at least a good way to reintroduce the factions which haven’t been touched for years, plus it would be better than any season we will probably get this entire year since bungie doesn’t seem to know what they are doing. 😁
@HARRYRANTS 🤷🏻♂️
@HARRYRANTS it sounds like a travesty Bungie would do, that's the sad part.
I was never happy with sun setting when it was first announced. I was skeptical about it cause of how it really cut down the amount of weapons and armor you can use in high end activities.
Everyone but the UA-camrs and streamers knew and predicted sun-setting would be a disaster. And it is.
“HeAltY fOr thE gAme” whats even better they went the extra fucken mile and put an expiration date on our armor
It was never about what's "best for the game" it was always about what's easier for Bungie.
@@Winchester-lt6fk easier and profitable
I loved this game and ever since playing Beyond Light's campaign and saw the grind for the same old weapons I have in my vault I just quit. Haven't played for month's since and always hear it getting worse and worse. On top of so much being vaulted to make room for what really? What's new? Point something out that's worthwhile for me that's new please?
They are sun setting gear because they can't make decent gear. They are so desperate they are relying on taking away gear, destinations so they have some content to try sell us again later.
It's sad but destinys best days died when bungie couldn't lean on highmoon an v, visions. Look at how they've treated the community?! They are doing absolutely the minimum to ring cash out of the remaining players. It's sad, but bungie died years ago.
completely agree.
Luke smith walks in: So team how are doing on our primary goal of crushing dustin's dream today?
I truly feel there is no incentive to grind or even play. I chase a godroll for nearly a year, all to have my godroll sunset a season down the road, then reissued. I feel like I wasted my time.
At this point, I would rather see "power creep" enter the fray. Give us new levels and stat ceilings. Sunsetting is just bad all around.
It’s Luke Smith. His direction has killed this game. It feels like playing a game that they no longer want to make.
Sunsetting, Stasis, recycled weapons, lack of new content, lack of timely "live updating", seems like too much for Destiny to overcome!
Exotics don't even feel special anymore they need to make a higher tier something that's actually very rare with stats and buffs that can completely change the players experience.
Also make it memorable , something that you need to succeed in the game. Endgame activity needs to be more difficult whilst having more players instead of having 6 in a team, for example that recent glitch with the 16 player NF it looks so fun to be in and I could see that happening in some type of raid.
There could be your normal raids where its 6 players but then you have elite raids that are super challenging a good balance between mechanics and enemies that you have to face but the plus side would be having 7 or 15 other players with you to take on the challenge. They could make specific modifiers that make you want to grind for amour that can counter these modifiers, the modifiers should be on a rotation too so it keeps the gameplay fresh every reset.
Elite raid amour should drop rare too but when you get the whole amour set you unlock a special reward bonus or be able to have a higher chance to get elite exotic weaponry or amour.
That 16 player strike glitch is more funnier than 90% of beyond light contents
Everything you earn now drops with a timer, after which it’s useless.
Where is the respect for time invested, for grinding hours to get the roll you want - only to see that it’ll be taken away through obsolescence and then you’ll have to re-run the grind.
Saw this coming in summer, haven’t played since and refuse to come back until they start respecting my time - years played and none of that times been respected
when paul said something about them working the new rank up system in to strikes in a later season, it made me realize just how much "content" they're putting out that's clearly, and confirmed to be, unfinished and they're just saying "we'll finish it later"
absolutely insane.
don't release the cosmodrome until the whole thing is done. don't put in a new vendor rank system until it applies to all of them. don't respond to complaints about the loot pool by saying it'll be a sufficient size just in time for half of it to be sunset again, after it already dwindled by 15% every three months. don't make the new subclass with a completely different & objectively superior system while leaving all of the others stuck in their blocks.
These guys were among the many saying it was a good thing...rest of us knew it would be trash recycles...but this is out of hand
True that
Yea only destin out of them were against sunsetting from the get go, its funny all of us that foresee this happening were the only one with an actual functioning brain.
@@mortenlarsen7220 that is true, I remember he wasn't happy and made it clear...I meant more the others and all those streamer tools that said it will be great for new weapons. Hah!
Hey guys, I’ve just returned to D2 for the first time since the game came out. I’m having a lot of fun grinding out the season pass and looking forward to doing the high end Nightfalls and Raids. Really great to see your show again and see where the hardcore D2 players mindsets are at.
My 2 things: 1. On a macro level, I’d put contest modifier as an option everywhere and adjust loot drop for quantity and quality based on it. The best way to make the game larger without adding content is to give difficulty options which challenge us in different ways.
2. On a smaller scale I’d abandon sunsetting, update all Y1 weapons to random rolls and let us pull everything from collections at a high price.
They should refund all the materials you used for armors you have once they are sunsetted.
It is bad, I want my service revolver back and my trust hand cannon
TOLD YOU SOOOOO this was sooooooo obvious from the start this was gonna be bad, and with every DLC getting thinner and them having less dev help how were they gonna make more content
If they remove the Light Level from guns and compensate it on the armor, than we still have the grind for gear but can keep all the guns.
I commented this about 9/8 months ago. Sunsetting would mean less work for Bungie, less time balancing and testing "old stuff" and more time invested in "newer things". The problem is that it became very evident that to bypass "time" they intended to bring back old guns, re-issuing them.
Do you guys think that the gnawing hunger, last season wasn't a planned move? Of course, it was, they brought it back to test the waters, to see our reaction to it. The feedback they saw was "at least bring it back with newer perks", but the majority of people didn't care about sunsetting because we were getting rid of Recluse, Mountain top, and Revoker.
These weapons left a void, a void that not a single weapon in this season/expansion filled.
Ex: Marty's for example, a wave frame GL that spawns WARMIND CELLS. Does the replacement for it, Deafening Wisper, does the same? Of course not, "imagine having such powerful weapon in the PvE sandbox" - Luke Smith. (it's a Reddit meme, he did not say that but we all imagine that from him at this point).
This feels like I'm constantly replacing guns that I enjoy using and the replacements aren't as good, and the fact that these replacements will eventually be sunset for more replacements is just...
Why did no one think about how awful it would be? Oh wait, Aztecross did it, MTashed (the anime guy as we all know him), and many others.
But hey Bungie only listens to feedback if it comes from Datto right? Yeah.
I don't know how anyone still manages to get excited for destiny. I mean every time they do something new they mess it up. We're in what year 3 or 4? They still keep experimenting with core systems and just are trying to figure out how the game should work.
im against sunsetting with destin. i remember destin got alot of criticism and flak because he was the only one that is against it since day 1. lol.
No he wasint the only one he said what was gonna happen and so did i and i caught flak for it aswell, and tassi said he think he was caught up in hating Mtop and revoker that he was willing to give up everything else. Imagine being so dumb and blinded by hate towards guns in a game, what the actual fuck.
@@mortenlarsen7220 yeah in the old
video i got flamed as well. hillarious how fast people flip flop. been playing destiny since d1 beta. i k
ew they would scew up sunsetting. lol. how easily people get baited. want more op guns like recluse? we need sunsetting! what a joke.
Same
@@RazgrizFllaga i was expecting bungie to just say PR stuff and then screw over the players. I was expecting 40 to 50 guns from BL and roughly 10 exotic weapons, turns out i expected 100% too much loot while forsaken had 18 exotic guns and somewhere around 80 legendary guns and they are reissuing 4 of them wow at that pace it will take 20 seasons to reissue all those weapons back but they only need 4 seasons to get nuked.
Paul Tassi needs to be permanent
👌
The whole reason they are even doing this isn't for the better of the game, its cause they just straight up can't deliver enough content. Also if they are worried about the health of the team then maybe they need to realize its time to hire people to help keep up.
But then they can't make ALL the money with minimal effort because they'll have to pay all those new hires.
@@Winchester-lt6fk sad that is actually true.
They literally pulled all their resources to work on the new ip instead and leave destiny as a cash cow cause idiots will keep buying season passes with minimum content.
@@yourvenparianen5390 well personally I buy the deluxe every year.. so I get every season but don't know if they will be god or not.. just suck that what I want from destiny will most likely come from their other game whenever that is and destiny will get left behind.
Hatred towards freezing in pvp intensifies.
I turned in 6800 or so crucible tokens and saved 1 weapon. Everything else was utter trash.
I feel ya I'm half way through my 10k, and only finding a few weapons that aren't auto dismantles. All the armor is terrible.
I'll say it every time. All they had to do was sunset the pinnacle weapons. That's it.
What blows my mind is that Bungie can add seasonal ornaments in the season pass (paid for) and on Eververse (paid for) for weapons and armor. All they have to do is make a new skin/ornament weapons/armor and introduce it into the game as rewards. Heck, quick nerfs to subclasses and a dragonfly perks, seem to be more important than what the balance of the game. New Europa weapons were introduced, and how in the world can they NOT do this on many more levels within the game??
PvE content ends so quickly for exploring content and obtaining weapons, then it becomes boring. PvP becomes unbalanced and not addressed appropriately. Sunsetting and giving the community the vision of a a constant repeated experience.
I think the saying goes, "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing OVER AND OVER, and expecting the same results."
@FireteamChat , awesome coverage and input/feedback! Thank you!
@Bungie LISTEN to the PEOPLE/COMMUNITY that SUPPORT YOU !!
Correct me if I'm wrong guys.... But when I first saw the system ff14 implemented, having like 2 separate games, pve and pvp is its own thing..... I thought to myself, wooow that's the thing every rpg need to do
That's the answer to balance pve and pvp.... U can't u have to separate them
Here’s my thought of what we could do about sunsetting. Every season they should introduce an item that allows you to choose a set number of weapons getting or is sunsetted, and allow then to infuse and bring it to the cap. That mitigates the burn out of sunset, because players will still be able to run their favorite guns, and can still allow them to rotate the meta like they like. It also help the bigger problem of destiny that simply bungie wants you to play their game how they like it. There’s little to no player agency these days and to be able to pick the weapons you want can help that feeling
This whole sunsetting issue reminds me of D2’s launch. The community was vigorously against duel primary, static rolls on gear, and 4v4. It took Bungie a whole year + the feedback from the beta testing - to finally eat crow and put the game back to the way it was. And that was after massive amounts of players left the game. I’m seeing that now on my roster and on my streamer feeds. Players are leaving over sunsetting and Stasis PvP imbalances.
Thanks! When I was neck deep into Destiny 2, Fireteam chat spoke the most to me out of all the channels. Even though I've left Destiny, I still watch FTC because I think Destiny has a lot of potential, but it's hampered solely and mired by most poorly monetized MMO design: progression and end game. Players have to feel adequately rewarded for their time spent in a game. When this doesn't happen and after the first blush fades, the community will contract to only the die-hards, which is never good.
The worst part of Destiny 2 is that the story is secondary to the gameplay. Metas are not the problem. I hope all the problems are just transitional issues and that I can return to thie F2P that I PAID for (still grumbly about THAT) and feel that my time is respected and earned by the devs.
i left this game last year cause of sunsetting and wont be returning as long as its in the game
Activision made the right move. They should've been the ones celebrating
Lol
They probably wernt because they knew this would happen.
We really thought it was Bungie's fault. I'm sure Activision has some blame but the best stuff came out under them.
You could have the vendors read the grimoire entries when you earned them, sure more voice acting, but we'd hear the story, most people don't read the cards.
Never any new DLC in Destiny that is good tho is there?
Yes the idea of taking away things you have paid for- to then sell you reskins of the same thing is bad.
Especially when they remove so much and offer so less in return.
Luke smith is a troll- and probably enjoys doing this to you.
But more than anything, it demonstrates how little development went into Destiny 2 after Destiny 1- with the game yet again falling into the same content limits and file size limits no other game seems to suffer from- just Destiny....
Bungee doesn’t have trouble making weapons and armor. It’s one of the easiest things they can create. They are being lazy, look at all the new Eververse armor and weapon skins. If they put that same effort into world drops Destiny could be great again!
Destiny players been complaining for years about destiny 2 problems but will then log in and play 50 hours of destiny in one week. Makes no sense ??
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣broooooooo
Destin nailing every reason I stopped playing. The main reason I quit back in Black Armory was that my time was not respected. Not only is the treadmill of repeating content a second full time job ~ But the rewards for playing are constantly taken away. Nothing you do is worth the time and effort required.
tbh, anything you earn from the current season vendor and the Europa location (inlcuding the Raid and the armor and guns from Last Wish and Garden of Salvation) has an infusion cap of 1410. That is a full year of seasons, 50 power per season till Witch Queen. So masterworking Beyond Light armor (and above) actually is worth the effort. So ascendant shards are a good reward IMO, especially for people who don't have hundreds of masterwork cores.
7-years and I put up with it all. Content droughts, bad meta, bugs, and cheaters. I was willing to continue supporting Bungie.
Sunset was the last red-line. It’s a clear slap in the face. A clear sign of just not caring at all about your communities time and investment.
What’s it’s done is kill my motivation to even grind the same activity. In my mind there is a block. Why am I doing this simply to lose this and have to do it again.
Expansions will never fix the game. It’s done and over. The expansions are cash grabs abusing customer loyalty. Nope. I’m out.
Only hardcore fanbois wouldn't of seen this coming. From the announcement of sunsetting it was pretty clear the reason for it, Bungo dont want to create content and this co,bined with the DCV will help fill in the next couple of years until the end of the game. Matter is their only concern, and the only goal with Destiny now is to see how much money they can bleed out of the remaining player base and new players.
The best thing for Destiny is for Bungie to sell the IP off, fark I'd be happy with Ubisoft taking the reigns as atleast they actually work on games.
Bungie problem is they keep trying to grab new players every-time they release content instead of just catering to its dedicated community of the game
New players = more money for development.
We were also told that old weapons were good in most of the game,this is not what happened at all and armour! never got the reason for that esp with the price of masterworking.
Speaking of armor, I had an idea. How about intrinsic perks for armor sets, a lá Assassin's Creed: Valhalla? Equip all pieces and get a boost to mobility, for example, or have a chance to drop ammo for your fireteam. Reverse the armor sunsetting, add perks to chase, so no 2 sets are the same. Transmog would be relevant, so armor would actually be interesting.
Destin, yes! I had to pause the video to comment at 6:15. Yes, yes, yes. Armor Sunsetting was ludicrous. I was only marginally concerned with weapons, but armor...are you serious? I spent 4 seasons getting enough Masterwork Cores to Masterwork my armor and had it looking and feeling just right for my modest, "I was obsessed with being the one support Defender Titan in D1" build, to have it all taken away. That was the final nail for me after over 6 years. They had clearly lost touch with me as a player: the person who played Destiny for 10 maybe more hours a week and loved just playing the Nightfall and infusing a few items. I can not play for the grind. I grind because I enjoy playing. Or at least I once did.
I'm excited to farm some Altar of Sorrows for a few Moon weapons. Glad you're still here Destin.
Edit: Completely agree with Travis on collections. I had the same thought when they introduced random rolls just after releasing collections. It's ridiculous.
Edit 2: My body is ready for more Fireteam Chat in 2021.
The recycled guns, and sunsetting any armor makes no sense in terms of why Bungie said they did sunsetting in the 1st place. They should have only sunset pinnacle and ritual weapons (the legendary weapons in the Monument to Lost Lights). Nothing else needs to be sunset.
The only thing sunsetting is doing is “deincentivizing” me from wanting to play at all. I feel like I’m just borrowing the loot in the game.
I'm seeing a lot of negative comments about sun setting here (and I am 100% behind you. Sunsetting is a terrible idea and I was deadset against it when it was announced), so I'm gonna go ahead and try something a little more positive based off the question of what I'd improve/change.
I've been playing some D1 recently with a friend who started shortly before Shadowkeep dropped, so they never experience D1 at all. Whilst I've been on it, we've both gone, "this is a good system"; "why is this not in the game" etc about a few things. The one that grabs my attention the most though was the way factions were set up. Not necessarily the Vanguard, but Crucible and the outlier factions of New Monarchy, Dead Orbit and FWC. You could hand in stuff you've picked up, motes of light, heavy/special ammo synths etc and get a rank up package. You could choose whether you wanted weapon or armour, or even a fancy chroma set. You would then also get a shader, emblem, a ghost(!) and maybe a ship/sparrow related to that faction. In addition to that you had rank system with certain items for sale at each rank up to three, as well as all the rolls on the weapons and armour changing weekly with reset. Oh, and you got faction rep passively by doing patrols, doing strikes, doing a RAID, doing bounties etc. Much better system than what we have now, although this new proposed one takes us in that direction
Good job with the show guys. I listen to it at work every week. Just letting you know that everything you do is appreciated.
They're going to have to remove sunsetting and implement seasonal characters like in diablo 3 so that people can choose at beginning of every season whether or not you want to play the new season with your old regular character like normal or make a new seasonal character with a fresh seasonal vault, and have ranked leaderboards in-game for who does what fastest etc. And then at the end of the season, your seasonal loot gets sent to whichever old regular character you want.
This way if people want to play destiny like it was before sunsetting but with all the new seasonal stuff, they can do that, or if they want a seasonal fresh start with more focus on the new seasonal loot, they can do that instead. Of course seasonal characters only matchmake with other seasonals. Just a thought.
I had an insanely good Retold Tale. Full Choke, Accurized, Slideshot, Moving Target, Range masterwork. That was the one time I got good RNG on a Forsaken weapon. I don't want to grind for it again and will likely never get anything close.
They could have made it part of the story that Savathun "corrupted" our existing weapons and armor. Even some old barely used exotics could have been "infected".
Would have been a smooth way to get players to go after a mix of old and new stuff.
Destiny 1 had it right with Motes of Light! We need to get back to that. Time invested playing what you want= leveling your arsenal vs farming materials to do so.
We complained the moment Sunsetting was brought up all the way to even now. Just proof they do not listen
Anyone else think it'd be interesting if they brought in a system to scale enemy difficulty based on the number of guardians in the fireteam (Like borderlands). Ultimately I think it would be awesome to break the fireteam restrictions on certain events and be able to go into the activity with 1-6 guardians and have the enemies scale to you. I know this might break a few things and it wouldn't be the easiest thing to implement but I'm curious if anyone else thinks that'd be fun or just like the worst idea you ever heard.
The problem with sunsetting is unless its trials or iron banner you can use any weapons because light doesn't matter. It hurts build diversity in end game content. Armor should have set bonuses. Trial armor, gambit, crucible, raids and vanguard should have a reason to wear them and a set bonus would help. I know everyone will complain about vault space but with sunsetting what are you really keeping in there?
I like to warm up some food and eat while watching Fireteam Chat, really enjoyable podcast, sad to see you go Destin but at the same time I'm happy for you! You'll have a great family, best wishes to you, your wife and child :)
Fireteam chat does mean something to me, happy that it'll be around with my boii Travis leading, can't wait for that!
But this whole ordeal with sunsetting is only getting worse, i have a Vouchsafe that i used alot, never dismantle it in hopes of it someday returning but sadly now we have to re grind for the weapons and it feels wrong.
I agree with Travis, Bungie should rotate everything, have all 3 dungeons rotate as the pinnacle drop weekly, same with the Raids, it'll refresh the game a bit, empire hunts should have been Strikes... Throw them in with the Playlist, at least it'll make the Playlist a bit different.
Every returning weapon and armor set, should get a upgradable option for people who already have them, i don't know what bungie is thinking doing all of this, this all feels like we are getting less content and more content getting removed just to get reissued later, doesn't make any sense, i fear someday I'll stop playing it, everytime it becomes less fun.