**SPIKE IS TOO MUCH!** Buffy the Vampire Slayer S4 Ep 8 "Pangs" Reaction: FIRST TIME WATCHING
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
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So is Spike the official MVP of this season?? (for me, it's a definitive YES)
YES!
Yes
And so begins my favourite part of my favourite season. I love this Spike storyline. We are also getting closer to my all time favourite show. I have watched this whole series many times.
Spike is the MVP of every season, including seasons he doesn't appear in.
Always
I will never not crack up at “you made a bear! Undo it! Undo it!” 😂😂😂
Same here! That moment is easily one of Spike's most hilarious moments of all time!
My Favorite funny Spike moment 🤣🤣🤣
“What are you Batman?” And he turns into a bunch of bats.
I think the most important part of the conversation is listening to the people who are still suffering from the consequences. It's not up to us to make those decisions for them. The best thing we can do is treat everyone with respect. Making amends and correcting ongoing issues is a painstaking process with a lot of complexities, however if we stop listening to and respecting others it's all for not.
I was a big fan of Buffy and Angel between season 1 and 4 of Buffy. Now, I still like them, but they are two others couples that I much prefer over them. I am not going to say more ;)
“A bear. You made a bear!!”
“I didn’t mean to”
“Undo it! Undo it!”
Lmao gets me every time. 😂
In a series full of hilarious moments, that one's in The Hall Of Fame.🤣
yes 💜@@SilentBob731
One of the funniest and best episodes of the season purely because of Spike and the comedy he brings to the table 😂
I don’t know if there’s a scene in this show I would object to having Spike join, he’s just that good
"specially when angel being here and all"
everyone's face is oops. meanwhile Spike 😈
Thor: Holy, this just got pretty violent! They almost showed that whole slitting of her throat! What is this show??
Kendra: Am I joke to you?
Haha good point, and RIP Kendra, I still miss her..
Ahh, yes. "A Very Special Buffy Thanksgiving."
Because I hadn't laughed hard enough during "Fear Itself."
As to the bicycle scene, I always thought of them as the cavalry riding to the rescue rather than an ET reference. Willow did make a mention of the cavalry earlier in the episode. Also, in defense of Xander I'm not certain if it was ever explained to him that Angel wanted to stay incognito and besides, he had his new syphilis.
Oh I totally agree with that, very old western feel
Me too.
I don't hate bangel but I prefer...another ship. Willow and Xander thinking Angel's evil is too funny, he wasn't even wearing leather pants. And yep, Spike's a regular now and definitely the mvp but he's my favorite so I'm a little biased.
I think Buffy was just missing her mom, and wanting to recapture the feelings of previous Thanksgiving dinners when she was there.
Yep, I think you got it right: with everything else going on in her life right now (Slayer stress, parental drama, college uncertainty) she's just desperately clinging to the idea of a "nice normal Thanksgiving dinner" as a way to feel warmth, calm, and comfort.
I watch this every Thanksgiving. I will never not laugh at Spike and the bear.
I also love when he gets shot with the first arrow. HEY! WATCH THE HEART!
i love spike, hes my favorite character. and no i dont ship buffy and angel. i was never a fan of their dynamic, i don't think it was healthy. love doesnt always equal healthy.
They took spike in for two reasons. First, they want information on the initiative. Second, he can no longer hurt people so they feel it a bit unfair to kill him now
* DUDE, LET'S START A 2-MEMBER FAN CLUB FOR SNYDER!! I can relate so much and I feel like we're the only people who loved that fella this much! I miss himmmmm!
* James Marsters became a regular in The Initiative. Yeah, he's here to stay, that's what it means. You can thank SMG for that, because after Seth Green left the show Joss consulted Sarah and she recommended on James to fill the gap. She told him if he doesn't snatch him someone else will.
* The gang didn't pity Spike. He has first-hand info on the Initiative.
* I think Buffy wanted the feel of nostalgia by burying herself in the Thanksgiving dinner preparations.
* I do believe Angel thought he was being protective of Buffy by not letting her know he's there, but at the end of the day it's her choice and he's taken it away. That's one of my problems with the Bangel relationship, the way he always makes decisions for her.
* As for the ships, I jumped the Bangel ship in S3. Not to Brilay though. My otp up to this day is... a spoiler. I just found them 10 times more interesting and think they have 10 times more chemistry. As for Angel and Kate, I don't see it, to be honest. I see more chemistry between Angel and... Well, that's a spoiler too.
* I almost forgot to mention a fun fact: You know that bear? It's a *real* bear that Sarah's stunt double had to wave punches at right there on set, no green screen or anything. Sheesh.
Can't wait for the next episode!
I really hate this episode because of how it gaslights the real valid anger that indigenous people hold towards colonizers. It excuses conquest while overlooking that most native folx still struggle with poverty, disenfranchisement and continued destruction of sacred land. Spike doesn't say anything revolutionary when he tells them to get over it. You want something revolutionary, listen to Wednesday Addams in Addams family Values.
Never really like Angel. Also Santa isn't real? Spoiler warning dude
I think the Buffy and Angel relationship is covered in red flags. The age difference alone when she was 16. No, man.
I don't ship Buffy and Angel. But I don't do much shipping in general when I watch shows. I'm more in it for what might lead to interesting and meaningful storylines, and the Buffy/Angel "ship" did lead to an interesting and meaningful storyline in season 2. It was never a good idea for them to be together. The age gap alone when they first met...yikes. But I see Angelus as the payoff to that. Beyond that, I don't see any purpose in them being together. Angel is far more interesting in his own show than he was in season 3 of Buffy, which was mostly just a slow breakup.
I can't imagine being a shipper and watching these shows.
I do not ship Buffy and Angel. In the same way that I wouldn’t ship any other 80+ year old stalking and grooming a 15 year old.
Who do I ship? Buffy with Spike, of course! I know, so random! I also ship Angel with Doyle, Giles with mushy peas, and Xander with the entire Shumash tribe 😁😁😁
I don't know, I kinda ship Angel and Spike myself sometimes.
@@Kayjee17 See, now you're just talking nonsense
I do not and have never and will never ship Buffy and Angel
Buffy and Angel are my favorite couple. It's a sad thing to see them apart. Buffy's second season it's my favorite because of it, everything that happens in that season it's wild.
I'm still looking for my Anya. That specific type of crazy is hard to find.
I love a ritual sacrifice. Lol. Ever since this, that’s what I refer to big holiday meals as. With pie
Willow sure did expend a lot of effort to support a spirit of vengeance!
I've long been under the impression that ever since Willow did the spell to re-curse Angel, she has been drawn to vengeance. That spell, created by gypsies who claimed to "serve vengeance" was shown with those quick flashes back to the original curse, almost like Willow was channeling a spirit to recast the curse.
She was always so timid, taking abuse from everyone. When she was captured by Faith and the mayor and she slung some barbs at Faith, was that really her? Or the growing influence of something darker?
Then when she caught Oz cheating, her first reaction was to exact vengeance against them both, scaring herself in the process.
Now, she is full on siding with a spirit of vengeance? Seems like this is becoming a pattern for her...
SPOILERS:
Hmmm now that’s a thought. That’s certainly an angle I haven’t looked at yet. Whether she opened a door into power corruption, addiction and vengeance when restoring Angel’s soul and essentially poisoned her spirit. I have of course addressed the question of what is “the real her” in my analysis of her Grey Identity and emergence of Dark Willow before but had never thought about it this way. Could very well be.
I have ruled out possession and incarceration with her Dark Willow arc though. So if she was channelling a spirit in ‘Becoming (Part II)’, it must be her own from in the future when the door was already wide open. And I think @herinsectreflection covered this subject.
@@Girl4Music that's a great point. In fact, in Becoming (Part 1), when Willow first suggested she wanted to try casting the spell, didn't Giles warn her it could open a door she couldn't close?
@@interstellarprobe4930 👍
About still shipping Bangel, I reserve to answer that after next episode...
In the end, the "danger" that Doyle foresaw had more to do with her moral conflicts of fighting a Native American foe. Angel had no qualms snapping their necks and had he not shown up the Scoobies could've easily been overwhelmed.
I will forever ship Buffy/Angel. Their bond and chemistry was so sweet and passionate. I think Buffy was missing home and wanted something normal, so I think that's why she fixated on the dinner so much.
At this point of the show I absolutely ship Buffy and Angel. Later on I ship differently however....
Hashtag Vampire Turrkey
"...Well it pinches."
I love how the writers incorporate the argument into the script without taking a firm side one way or the other, other than Hus' murders being a bad thing. Characters have their opinions, but the episode never took a stance one way or the other on the stance of the Thanksgiving argument.
This is such a great episode! Spike is fantastic xD
Also: 17:20 doesn't Anya sort of sounds turned on here :D Very fitting her character
I don't know if you forgot but Spike has the chip, so that means he can't hurt humans so the gang isn't as intimidated by him, also he convinced them at least for time being, to use him to learn about the commandos. I think in the meta sense, the writers weren't sure where to take him, yet....
Waiting for the next episode….this season is funny.
Title says Spike’s too much and I say that’s why we love him 🥳
P.S. Spike only got to the intro last episode.
SPOILERS:
Hmm, haven’t thought of it till now but this scene kinda reminds me of Willow’s anxiety attack in ‘The Body’ as Buffy projects and deflects her real emotional and psychological conditions on something as trivial as baking in the same way Willow does with choosing and wearing clothes. It’s what they can control in the moment. Something tangible. Something reachable. Unlike their mentality. Expending their time and energy on something not as scary, painful or difficult as addressing their emotions.
What’s plaguing Buffy definitely has nothing to do with cooking the perfect Thanksgiving meal for her found-family. That’s just the cover-up. The band-aid. But unlike ‘The Body’, ‘Pangs’ is primarily a comedy… and so it cannot address Buffy’s anxiety literally.
Choosing metaphor and analogy instead as ‘BtVS’ often does and it’s always effective regardless so long as you’re clever enough to decipher visual symbolism.
Yes, been waiting for this one. One of my favorites, and not because of the whole big bad. To me this is an unofficial changing of the guard for the Scoobies. Oz is freshly gone, that's big. Then there's Anya fully in the mix for the first time. The whole Spike thing. Then there's Angel swooping around like a ghost of Buffy past. In many ways it's the beginning of what Buffy morphs into now.
Over the last Thanksgiving my friend and I did get into it a bit about how "right" Spike is. He kind of agrees but more so that people shouldn't feel guilty for anything their ancestors did, not with the survival of the fittest angle. Me being more of the Willow lol, I disagreed, but Pangs does spark an interesting debate with no clear answer like most BTVS eps.
@@datboi04 It's not necessarily that we're as monstrous as the pilgrims but how modern natives are treated isn't really *the best* which makes me think we should be trying to make it right more than we are and we can't fully distance ourselves from the past yet. If this wasn't the case I would absolutely be saying we have nothing to do with any of it.
I am German. So I am half and half ^^"
I always felt like Giles was the one representing that middle ground between Willow and Spike. He recognizes the points both make but he isn’t heartless like Spike is with his argument or as naive as Willow with her argument. And of course just like many who try to take a middle approach when it comes to such a complex and difficult topic, he felt frustrated that no one was listening to him because both sides were entrenched in their views.
@@bespectacledheroine7292 I agree that the focus should be on the people who are alive now, and making things better for them. I read a Native American review of this episode that said the most offensive part was not the celebration of Thanksgiving, or the portal of the violent ghost, but the implication that they are all gone.
I can’t wait to see your reaction to the next episode of Angel. By far one of my favorite episodes of the Buffy/Angel universe. And Buffy and Angel 4ER
Nah, I can’t ship Buffy and Angel. Their story is just far too tragic to even remotely ship it. It’s like shipping suffering with suffering. Trauma with trauma. Not a good time at all.
I understand they love each other but the circumstances being as they are - they are definitely better off apart.
I don’t necessarily ship Buffy with anyone if I was honest. I think she needs to be okay with being alone and not define herself by her relationships.
When it comes to shipping, that’s reserved for the Scoobies. Willow and Xander. Who I ship Xander with you’ve already met. Anya, of course. Who I ship Willow with you have yet to meet.
My favourite ship in the whole Buffyverse is one of Willow’s canon romantic/sexual relationships.
Posting my BUFFY REWATCH recap for ‘Pangs’. May contain spoilers.
This episode was a very interesting one. It has the Gang dealing with vengeance demons. But there’s a very compelling confliction going on because these vengeance demons are the spirits of tribes of Chumash Native American people. So it has the likes of Willow and Buffy - the more compassionate members of the Scooby Gang - torn for what to do. They don’t know whether they should be helping them or stopping them. Feeling guilt, for their ancestors tortured these tribes into submission and helped set up Western European Colonialism. Willow - being Jewish - is especially hesitant on killing these demons, learning of all the shit that has been done to their people from her mother, who refuses to celebrate Thanksgiving or Columbus Day. Buffy really wants a nice, normal Thanksgiving Day meal with the Gang - her found family - but she also struggles with whether she’s in the right or wrong for it.
So there is a lot of complexity going on in this episode which makes it very interesting for me to watch - because I like complex, I like drama, I like conflict. I like something that makes me think a little bit and reassess my beliefs. I don’t really see the point of interacting with any kind of art/entertainment otherwise. I don’t care for the pleasure principle whatsoever when it comes to what I watch or listen to or read etc... I am very much about the learning process only. So, this episode is definetly another one of my favourites. Spike has a very good line. He provides the logic to this episode but in a way where it’s very consistent with his character and straight to the point of the matter which I love about him in general.
“You exterminated his race. What could you possibly say that would make him feel better? It's kill or be killed here. Take your bloody pick.”
I know if I was American - I wouldn’t celebrate Thanksgiving Day either. Well done to the writers for trying to tackle such a controversial subject. Never shying away from the hard discussions in order to give the audience a lesson. Which, as I have said, it’s precisely the point to interacting with art/entertainment for me.
This episode always fascinates me. If a popular show today had a thanksgiving storyline that was morally ambiguous like this and not an outright, unequivocal denunciation they would be crucified on social media.
One of my favourite episodes. The return of my beloved Angel. ❤
Pangs is just peak Buffy comedy! The one liners get me every re-watch. Spike especially is hilarious. But also it does raise some very interesting debates about history through the characters differing opinions.
I think it was just Buffy's first major holiday without Mommy.
"It's a sham with yams. It's a yam sham." I should have used that at Thanksgiving dinner. I forgot.
While many of these types of tribes still exists and the people exist, much of the culture and the history is lost. Giles, a British person, whose heritage is directly linked to the genocide, yet far removed, wants to move past it and deal with the present, intentionally or unintentionally sweeping the atrocities under the rug. Spike takes the conquers position of winners and losers, yet he still understands the grievance that is a fallen nation, as he is also British and unlike Giles has personally seen the mighty Great Britain fall. Nevertheless, he being immortal has seen the rise and fall Great Britain, Napoleon, Germany, native tribes, Chinese Dynasties, and even in the supernatural world of legendary demons. Willow takes the position of empathy because she is Jewish and understands the subjugation and extermination of a people. She wants desperately to make things right, as Willow does, however as Spike says, that's not very easy to do when the culture is so utterly destroyed and the land is now violated by suburban sprawl. Xander is being punished on a eye-for-an-eye basis by the historical acts of "The Colonial Man" against the native nations with fever and syphilis. This method of vengeance is unfair and doesn't bring the tribe back for real, it just brings more death. Buffy wants to celebrate the positive ideals of the holiday because they bring her comfort and belonging, especially to a simpler time that doesn't include the supernatural. For a network to air a Thanksgiving special that was and is very anti-Thanksgiving was very unheard of at the time. It is still criticized both for being too critical of Thanksgiving and not being accurate enough about the native tribes. But I think it does its job well to spark debate and open viewer's eyes that the culture of Thanksgiving is not wholly celebrated by ALL Americans, least of all the Native Americans who have lost so much culture.
A few story notes, the character of Buffy (or any humans) couldn't kill any of the tribe. Angel killed a few and Buffy ends up killing the bear and not the human. That tribe is said to be wiped out completely, but the local real life tribe still exists. It is just easier for the story to not have any actual existing members of a tribe to simply ask how they feel because tribes aren't monoliths and for every tribe nation that exists, another number were eliminated, physically or culturally.
It's a sham... a sham with yams. I remember back when this episode aired being sooo mad that Angel just skulked around and didn't talk to Buffy.
Spoilers
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It actually makes no sense that Spike is all weak and pathetic. As we see in New Moon Rising, he could just go to Willy's Place and buy blood at the bar.
He just escaped from a lab, and can't hurt anybody -- Pretty sure he doesn't have any money!
@@LeshaAnn .
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He couldn't steal something. He couldn't sell something? He couldn't just grab a bottle of blood from behind the bar at Willy's. He couldn't just go to the butcher like Angel does? I mean there are countless ways that he could have gotten blood
Buffy and Angel forever!
Not knowing there was a huge cavern right where they were putting the new building.....probably not the best construction planning ever.
I do not ship Buffy & Angel (I like Angel with someone from his show, not Kate). & I definitely do NOT ship Buffy with Riley, bleck. I like Buffy with..my favorite character lol
Another great reaction Thor! I'm loving your Buffyverse reactions!
Regarding the Scoobies taking Spike in, they don't 'take pity' on him. They let him in because he has info on the Initiative.
Okay so... I'm not sure how you're gonna take this BUT hopefully not in a bad way lol I just found your videos and I'm very excited to watch more! The part that might sound kinda weird is you kinda remind me of my little brother. We're 16 years apart so while he is only 17, he's very mature for his age. I love your commentary and what I can tell of your personality just watching these reacts :)
"You may be the dean but you are no principal Synder" Forever in our hearts. 😆😇
I just want to point out that when this was made, a lot of us were just finding out that the fantasy we had been taught about the happy, peaceful Thanksgiving between Pilgrims and Native Americans was BS. There was a lot of debate at the time about whether Thanksgiving should be celebrated. I think it's fine to celebrate, as long as you don't continue to tell that fake history. I don't think we need to flagellate ourselves over what our ancestors did, but we should try to make things better for the people who are alive today. I read a Native American review of this episode that said the most offensive part was not the celebration of Thanksgiving, or the portrayal of the violent ghost, but the implication that they are all gone.
I think Buffy summed it up pretty well with "Everything's different now", she wants the nostalgia of a traditional Thanksgiving dinner. I watch Pangs every year, along with many, many other folks, that's one of my traditions. The writer, Jane Espenson, was one of my favorites during the series. She's done a lot of other cool stuff too.
I don't really have a couple preference at this point in the show, they write 'em and I go along for the ride
I did ship Buffy & Angel at this point the first time I watched the series but now (no spoilers) all I'm going to say is I don't ship them anymore.
This is a great episode! Loads of laughs!
The Scoobies arriving on bicycles. The cavalry arriving to save the day.
This is one of these episodes that just has aged so well. And it's so fun to watch. If I ever go to the US to celebrate Thanksgiving, I'm definitely gonna play this episode in the background. XD
This episode is one of the reasons I got so pissed at Angel in the Angel show a little later on". I seem to be alone with thinking he sucks in regards to that future issue, but Angel showing up is my least favourite part of this episode for partially that reason!
I think the least spoilery way to answer your question is... when this episode aired, I shipped BA 😁
This was a set up for the next Angel Episode. The Powers That Be send the vision only to get buffy in LA in the next episode. It was for Angel.
hi thor just to let you know not trying to give any spoilers but the next buffy episode is called something blue and its hilarious
This is one of my many favorite episodes of BTVS. My thought is that Buffy's obsession with the perfect Thanksgiving Feast was written in to provide some jokes and levity in an episode where a serious and dividing discussion is going on.
There is one thing I hate about Pangs though. Buffy gets an ARROW SHOT INTO HER ARM and it is never acknowledged again. Even in the same episode it is already ignored because Spike says he regrets none of them even bled so he can't feed on the blood ! If somebody can rationalize this for me it would help me get over it maybe but I can't ever watch this ep without swearing at my tv when Spike says the line.
And I gotta say ... in my opinion SMG never looked better than in this episode and the next.
At this point I am Angel Buffy, but I am also Angel Kate. I have never been a fan of Buffy Riley.
just a random thing but willow and wesley are a married to each other and was together during this or at least the second half of buffy also spikes the besttttt
I do and I don't... Hard to explain why but probably for the same reasons you hesitated.
I think the logic is they don’t kill something that can no longer hurt anyone
The bear is canon
I still ship Angel and Buffy. To me it's the most sweetest of them all. The age difference would be there with anyone (the problem ppl throw in) and since this is a supernatural show I'll forsake that. Other than that, even JW said Angel was the Romeo (archtype romantic hero) and when posed the question Angel or.... SMG also said she preferred Angel with Buffy. Then again, might just be my romantic heart. I don't need edgy in my viewing pleasure;-)
Love the content Thor! Discovered you through your LoTR viewings (which brought back memories) and you're quickly becoming one of my favorite reactors. Helps that we have a similar taste in series and movies! What a nice, articulate & intelligent gentleman you seem to be!😃
It's not a natural age difference. It's a statutory age difference. Add in the fact that he keeps stalking her. It's even worse.
16:24 Doyle's visions are either people in danger, a place where there will be danger or something that will be dangerous, It could have been a vision of Buffy in class the point was Buffy is in danger.
i think the episode ended just in time! the holiday was nice... until the "oops!".
Can’t wait for your reaction to the Angel episode!!
Hell yeah. One of my faves. So funny
She and Angel have definite conflicts but I like them together. He cares ,except when he’s Angelus. He has a soul and and and he loves her. Buffy was using the task of cooking holiday dinner to cope with the danger and situation around her. It’s a way to self comfort and focus.
watching this episode is my yearly Thanksgiving tradition. It never gets old
As a long time fan of vampire lore I found that the series was the first to address the nature of love involving the concept of the human soul. Terrific reaction.
it's pretty awful that the writer looked up the name of a real californian tribe, but then used a bunch of "native american" stereotypes rather than learning anything about the tribe. if it was going to be all stereotypes they should have just made up their own tribe.
LOVED THIS. THANK YOU :D
18:24 You missed it here. Angel was looking at her in a mirror. He doesn't have a reflection himself, so Buffy can't see him. Pretty tactical from Angel.
Have you ever seen the Buffy movie? It's from the early 90s and is hilarious.
Speaking on Giles geting his head bashed in, i'm suprized the poor bastard didn't have brain damage by the end of the series. He gets hit in the head a few more times as the show goes on.
Buffy and Angel? (Fist watch threw when I was 12, yes.) As an adult.....🤢no. He was almost 30 when he was turnt and fell for Buffy when she was 15.
Hey, Any plans on watching Wednesday at some point when u can fit it in?
The harm can never be undone, but reparations and land back are a decent start.
I always Will be shipping buffy and ángel ❤️
Buffy & Angel forever 💖
@22:36 : reperations ?
Please Thor watch Epic.
Ehhhh, nah, I don't much ship Buffy and Angel, really. Too much crying and threatening suicide and being overly clingy. It was alright for a high school romance, but...nah.
I don’t ship Angel and buffy, I ship her with someone else 😅
Ah yes, one of those episodes when Willow is a complete moron and doesn’t give a toss about her friends. Mildly surprising that she didn’t cast a spell a make everything “better”.
in fairness, the main three are all kinda bad friends.
i wouldnt be a thanksgiving episode without slaughtering some native americans. that shot at the end where they are all staring at buffy and its from her viewpoint is the picture i use as my fb cover in november every year. spike is so funny in this one. and yeah the issue is complex and im glad they tackle that. but giving xander the syph is not cool. i love anya. she is so funny. she is so blunt and honest and awkward but also loyal and caring and i like that she sees xander in a way that the others dont.
to me i always love buffy&angel