Kakegurui is also a Bad Character Study (Comment Response)
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- Опубліковано 15 вер 2017
- Discussion got pretty heated on my last Kakegurui video. Here's my response
Check out the last kakegurui video: • Why Kakegurui is a Ter...
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In the depths of his Mother's Basement, Geoff Thew creates videos analyzing the storytelling techniques of anime and video games. He has been named the number one Worst UA-cam Anime Reviewer by The Top Tens. - Фільми й анімація
The character I connected most with was actually Suzui. Placing yourself in his position and watching in awe as Yumeko pulls some crazy shit makes it feel unnecessary to actually connect with Yumeko herself.
but kaiji doesn't have highschool girls is it even an anime??
Jade Wukong the real questions over here
*cries* is this what anime has been reduced to now ;-;
Lucy Mia anime has always been trash. But that's what makes it great.
+Lucy Mia
You don't need to cry he was joking.
I get the joke. I laughed... but I also feel hte burning need to prove the foundation of this joke wrong.
Fullmetal Alchemist (and Brotherhood). No schoolgirls.
Ghost in the Shell. No Schoolgirls.
Samurai Champloo. No School girls, though Fuu is of the right age.
Re: Zero. No SChoolgirls, but does have cute maido, so that may compensate
Konosuba No Schools but I can assume there was school girls involved in the game Kazuma was purchasing in the first episode, so technicality?
Attack on Titan. No schoolgirls.
Dragonball Z. No schoolgirls until Videl some four thousand episodes in. I guess it wasn't real anime until then. Good to know.
RWBY is pretty much combat schoolgirls. Does that mean RWBY is anime? It's more Anime than DBZ or FMA by those rules ;p
Yet here I am still waiting for an anime about UNO or Jenga.
Pfffttt, just play the anime UNO on Playstation.
Ever heard of Vividred Operation? When I first saw posters of it... I thought it would've been UNO personified...
Ahem
i.imgur.com/5R3AfVz.jpg
(Though that is being dishonest, they drop the idea in the next chapter and opt for modifier mahjong instead)
I recognise your dp. 🤣🤣
There is one part in the kaiji manga where they were about to play uno but played mahjong instead which is fine but I really want see how it would’ve been executed
I don't think you are supposed to relate to Yumeko. I think you are supposed to relate to Suzui. He's one of the "main character"s, but his sole purpose is to represent the audience. At least the way I see it.
Yes, THANK YOU! That's exactly how I felt when I watched the anime, though I haven't read the manga at all (cuz I'm not a weeb :P). I always felt like Suzui, trying to figure out how the next council member would cheat and waiting for Yumeko to explain it to me/Suzui.
Well, yeah. He's basically the show's Dr.Watson and serves the same exact purpose.
@@brandondavidson4085 You relate to everyone but Yumeko. You relate to Suzui because he's the straight man. You end up relating to Mary in the manga because she gets fleshed out a little and stands out among the rich people because of her character. You even relate to nail girl a little because of the way she feels towards Manyuda.
My only gripe is that the manga doesn't go into *why* Yumeko is the way she is, or why the Bami family is the way they are, until this new volume, but it's done in a way that makes me want more and feel frustrated. Maybe if they met outside the school and Suzui or someone observed how, outside of school, everyone changes without the pressure of money, that'd be cool.
So I'm supposed to relate to Genos instead of Saitama? Or Robin instead of Batman? That's kinda lame tbh, I honestly rather relate to messed up things that Rick does instead of a normie like Jerry or even Morty
@@man1378 You're talking about very different things here. Saitama and Batman are both tangible characters made to be related to. You see Batman and you can relate to one of his many traits like how lonely he feels, his inner conflicts between dark and light etc. Saitama is literally made to be a total normie who just so happens to be completely op. He loves supermarket sales just as much as any of us. But in Kakegurui, Yumeko pretty much only has one trait, and that one trait defines her entire character. She's honestly a pretty flat character since we'll never see any development, but that's kind of the point. Instead of seeing her develop, we see how everyone else develops as a result of making contact with her. Yumeko is basically like a hurricane or some other natural disaster in a movie. You're not supposed to relate to the hurricane, you're supposed to reflect on how you would act when exposed to said hurricane.
Don't get me wrong though, the anime and manga has its faults, but I don't think "not being able to relate to Yumeko" is one of them.
This interrupted me watching Joseph Joestar and Avdol magnetized together.
NOT PRODUCTIVE PRODUCTIONS hence why JoJo fans have a better taste than every other anime fan.
Dude, same, what the actual fuck.
NOT PRODUCTIVE PRODUCTIONS enjoy. One of the best shows to ever Come out.
NOT PRODUCTIVE PRODUCTIONS OHHH NOOOOOOOO
*clicks tongue* NOICE
The relationship between Yumeko and the president was hinted in their names from the very beginning... they both have very unusual surnames, but shares one kanji. Also, Yumeko's sister also hinted that Yumeko is probably in the school to seek revenge or something from the president.
Saying that Kakegurui is a bad gambling anime but a good character study is paradoxical. In gambling anime the gambling is the mechanism through which characters are explored. It's like saying "this show's aesthetic, art quality and animation quality are shit, but it looks fantastic." It makes zero sense.
Comment of the Year.
masterplusmargarita Big facts
It’s essentially back tracking
It is possible tho. It can be a bad gambling anime in the sense that it does not follow gambling procedures correctly, but it can still have great character analysis through the (wrong) gambling procedures it uses
@@Luna-ry8lv thats an anime about bad gambling...and id watch it
@@Luna-ry8lv chup badwe
I think people conflated Jeoff saying the show is a "bad gambling anime" to him saying the show is a "bad anime". You can criticize a major part(s) of a show while still enjoying it. I love this show but let's be realistic; it has a ton of flaws when it comes to character development and having any real sense of stakes. Keep up the great work as always!
I mean, a show called "COMPULSIVE GAMBLER" couldn't possibly make gambling its main component. Think about it for a sec.
I am 100% in agreement the show has handled it's gambling aspect terribly. It's disappointing that the show could have been so much more than a fun time.
Don't know what's your point, gambling in the show is dope.
Kejangg Gambling isn't "dope" when there are no stakes and no tension. Anyone over the age of 12 would realize that the girl is just going to win every game, while good gambling anime, ie kaiji, have their protagonists lose and have real stakes. The concept of "wow ultra cool games" can only go so far, and for me and a lot of other people it didn't. The gambling sucks.
+Young Jupiter You don't get it. In Kaji the main character gambles to keep himself alive, whereas Yumeko gambles for the thrill. Also, we know fuck all about her motivations, why she's so good, and who backs her, for a reason. They wouldn't reveal it if it wasn't important. What do you mean no stakes? If people lose in Kakegurui, they end up not only owing major amounts of money, but are also made into basically slaves for their peers. Yumeko lost in episode 3, and had to gamble her way back, as well as Mary. If they didn't, they would be married into some rich family, losing all and any possibilities to be their own person. She gambled for her life in episode 6, playing Russian Rulette. What are you on about?
So what you're saying is...
you can't wait for Vento Aureo finally come out!
+Sambou Jaiteh I have had a video explaining king crimson in the pipeline for over a year
It's not like there's much to explain.
+Mother's Basement you're gonna need another multi-part series for that one
+Blurns it's just a meme, chill
Mother's Basement the only thing you need to say is: "it just works"
I feel that Yumeko isn't really the main character of Kakegurui she's just the main focus of every other character, the destructive force that turns the Student Council on its head. I'd say that Suzui and to an extent Mary are the main characters because we see more from their perspectives and their reactions to Yumeko's way of gambling. And just take a look at Suzui in general, he's the hesitant wuss with the voice of reason, but he's easily the most human character in the show and the one the viewer is supposed to relate to. And Suzui's character development is good, after being a housepet he meets Yumeko and over the course of the show he starts trusting Yumeko and becomes more confident, to the point he declares he's going to make his own choices and take his own risks. I see it as Yumeko doesn't have a lot of characte development because she is the catalyst for every other character's development. In my eyes Kakegurui isn't about the gambling or the high stakes it's about how the people in school react to a force (being Yumeko) just as destuctive as the overwhelming Student Council President Kirari, the one who made the system in the first place.
Personally I don't think Kakegurui is comparable to Kaiji because the shows are fundamentally different. But thats how I experienced Kakegurui, the gambling wasn't the main focus but simply the method of combat for two unstoppable forces to meet.
Suzui is a wet towel who isn't even there for an entire episode at one point. The main characters are the student council (and Mary I guess...) and the main focus is how they react to Yumeko's unstoppable rampage.
Then again isn't this what he exactly said
_the gambling wasn't the main focus but simply the method of combat for two unstoppable forces to meet._
Yeah, so ?? that's the point of a gambling mangas, you clown... this is why stakes are important so than the clash of the unstoppable are meaningless and doesnt make sense to begin with.
@Adrian
_Just because the stakes make up one series, it doesn't mean every other gambling series_
*Stakes are the core of gambling, the essence of it...* what you have to lose in regard of what you have to win...
From the stakes come the thrill.
Gambling itself is useless without the stakes coming around it. Gambling 10$ on a 2k$ salary for example is not the same as gambling 1.9$ on a 2k$. the person doing the latter will sweat a lot more.
this is why people have gambling addiction.
*Stakes matter*
_I think the show chose to focus more on the people around Yumeko and their reactions to her indifference of the stakes_
What stakes to begin with ??? you said yourslef the stakes are low.. who wouldnt be indifferent to it ?
_Which in a way, is very appealing and different than other gambling shows_
yet way better than Kakerugui but less shonen appealing since no boobs or crasy girls.
_It's kinda hard to raise stakes for high school students_
This is why it's a average... the mangas itself is your generic shonen type with a very poor plot.
A bunch of rich gambling to kill time.
_Kakegurui (artistically) approaches the world of gambling in a different angle._
Which is ?? lmao... pseudo ecchi, waifu girls and pseudo-crazyness tsundere girls is not a different approach of the world of gambling...
Did you even read the mangas or did you just watch the anime ? i highly suspect the latter. Since there are way way less pseudo ecchi, waifu girls and pseudo-crazyness tsundere girls in the mangas, when are we suppose to see that "different apporach angle of gambling" because there arent.
_Which is a pretty good feat if you ask me._
All Echi, waifu kind of anime does that...
@Adrian
i responded at all your point.
Stakes are important or else it's just child play... Any pro gambler know that.
This is why, in games like Poker, they are a huge and better psychological warfare than with your random game with your friend.
Man the other day I was just thinking how Kakegurui's characters, while fun and enjoyable to watch, you can't really connect to them cuz they don't really develop.
When I pointed out this in a discussion group some fans argued that "why should character develop?" and I was like " bruh , stop "
why the fuck does suzui exist in this show beyond "audience surrogate"?
In this case, an audience surrogate is necessary. So it's not a bad thing.
GoodwillWright not really.
Yeah , I see him as the voice of reason here but he is always treated by the author like decor .I understand that he is not the protagonist but even secondary characters get more meaningful dialogue than him
This kind of response is why I commented on the last video to promote discussion, thanks for the feedback!
I like both Kakegururi and Kaiji alot but generally feel they are almost incomparable, due to being so different in tone. Attack on Titan has more in common with Kaiji then Kakegururi does, while One Punch Man is more along the lines of Kakegurui. While both shows use the backdrop of gambling as a means of conflict, the shows take a very different stance in how we view our main character, you are supposed to relate to Kaiji as a human, while you supposed to almost fear Yumeko as a monster. At least thats how I see it, regardless loved the video and I look forward to whatever is next!
OnePieceOBleach
That was really well said, I completely agree with that.
I agree with your opinion man!
Well worded and true
Agreed. I just watched the show(late to the game, I know), and Yumeko reminded me far more of Alucard from Hellsing than any other character(let alone Kaiji). She's impossibly OP, and her psychology is utterly alien from the audience, but she serves as a vehicle for the action. Through her, we get to know the different characters she encounters and how some are changed by being in her presence(in Ryo's case, he plays the Seras Victoria to her Alucard: being simultaneously saved by her, and drawn further into her world than he ever thought possible).
I honestly don't think many of the actual criticisms that are leveled against the show here are that far off-base, I honestly started to check out by the time the Idol episode ended because of some of them myself, but the constant comparisons to other shows as a way to express that criticism sometimes makes it seem like he's missed the point of the show in the process of arriving at his point.
Personally, I don't get any feeling from yumeko. I'm a bit indifferent towards herel but find her interesting. I guess the problem here is that yume is less like a main character and more like a op sidekick and that's the problem. Unlike kanji, we don't know the ins and outs of her character. Yeah, she can be scary but we know that 9/10 times she's going to win. The risks are supposed to make up for it at least a little but that doesn't happened.
gotta agree that kakegurui isn't a deep or substantial anime, but it still entertains me so 🦆
gotta love tho that we have sideline support boi whatshisname, who seems to understand about as little about gambling as i do, but also other peeps like Mary, who can then explain it to him and subsequently me whenever yumeko is doing sth real crazy lmao
i still don't get what was going on in that first Rock Paper Scissors game
neither with the rules nor the cheating
I'm relatively quick on the uptake usually but wow gambling games just don't work with my brain
I'm just here for the comments because LoL
One thing i would like to see addressed is the fact that different people get different things from gambling anime. You are focused on the stakes aspect of those types of animes; but, for example, the main reason i love gambling anime is the mystery aspect of it. The game is always rigged in some way, and it is about the protagonist using his/her whits and skills to figure out what that cheat is and develop a counter-strategy to beat said cheat. that is probably why my favorite part of the kaiji anime is the pachinko stuff, even though most people would probably say that is their least favorite part (next to the mahjong i suppose, but that hasn't been translated yet into anime). And judging gambling animes based on that criteria, I found Kakegurui immensely enjoyable
I feel like a lot of people felt that they got personally attacked because you dared criticize an anime.
LeL.
Anon Royale honestly its annoying people are taking his breakdown so much to heart cause there waifus most likely lol like tbh i just like it for that the plot is weak to me
You should see the reaction to his twitter post about smash bros.
I think Geoff has a deathwish.
His fans take his opinions on shows as facts awfully often though. Maybe a disclaimer wouldn't hurt? For dumb people?
Anon Royale I think that's why people hate anime honestly.
I love comment response vids. When IHE does it it's great.
Zeemod155 I LOVE IHE
YEEEEEES.
Speaking of which, how is he now? He doesn't do the comment comeback anymore... :(
The purpose of a lot of the characters (Yumeko, for example) is to seem completely irrational and unique from the viewer's point of view. As someone else mentioned, Ryota is the narrator to the story and we are meant to see through his eyes, as he portrays an average (sane) human being. I also don't necessarily think Kakegurui is a bad gambling anime, it just depends what you look for in a gambling anime. I understand that Kakegurui attempts at making high stake gambles, but the show and the gambles are still immensely interesting without the 'high stake' aspect. I found Kakegurui just as interesting as anime like Kaiji and Akagi, because personally, although the stakes were different, I still felt the same amount of tension. You don't want the character to lose no matter what's on the line. But I guess that really up to personal preference. For me, Kakegurui is an anime that provides exaggerated facial expressions and intense visuals to express emotion. Also, an anime that provides entertaining characters and I found it more entertaining to watch than other gambling anime because of that.
You should do a video specifically about kaiji. I fucking love it since you recommended it
Im pretty new to this channel and i already dont like the fan base. As someone that just watched these videos back to back, this video felt so unnecessary... until i looked at the comments and saw just how many people dont understand what is being said. I guess its foreign to some people that you can admit something isnt the best, but you still enjoy it. The fact that you explain it so well, only gets the point across more, but people get so blinded by not hearing praise for the thing they love.
Ive seen comments about you bashing the fan base, which is something people are only hearing because they dont like your opinion and it put them in a bad mood
Ive seen people saying these videos arent put together very well because they either dont get it or, again, it isnt what they want to hear
Either way, i subbed for videos the this, keep em coming
You keep tossing love to Kaiji and it makes me love you. I've watched like the first 30 episodes of that show and it is hot fire. Thanks for shouting it out and keep making great videos. :D
You're mistaken that characters need to be relatable to be captivating. I find the absolutely insanity of everyone INCLUDING the main character to be part of the charm and appeal of the show itself.
the male mc isn't that insane tho
He isn’t mistaken as it’s subjective cause I don’t find every character being insane charming or appealing I find it more annoying if anything
_I find the absolutely insanity of everyone INCLUDING the main character to be part of the charm and appeal_
Translation :: i liked the waifus. ty.
@@sookiezboly4502 Exaclty. Thats it. They stay cuz girls in short skirts and boobs.
Thank you I came to say the exact same thing. Characters do not need to be relatable
Only got one thing to contest about what you said, about the unmentioned connection between Yumeko and the president. It might just be my writers brain that tends to overthink, but when I saw they both had the suffix Bami in their names, which is a fairly uncommon surname suffix in Japan, I had to wonder a bit about the possibility of a connection and it just turned out that I was right. But you're correct, it could've been telegraphed a little earlier in a subtle way; maybe Yumeko casually mentions the fact that they're distantly related or something, but since she obviously doesn't care about the family tie, she never goes into detail. I dunno.
I think Kakegurui isn't a Character study, it is a facial/body expression study, like, seriously it is so amazing and iconic for the anime how the visuals and extreme drama works. It is also an amazing ecchi, it explores sexuality in a quirky but friendly way, as a women, it is hard to find a Ecchi that I enjoy without feeling uncomfortable, and kakegurui is totally fine and fun. Also THAT OPENING IS SO GOOD BRO OMG
i like how he completely ignored the fact that the "relatable" character isn't supposed to be yumeko, but suzui
Suzui has no purpose other than being the connection between us and their world. We're not supposed to relate to anyone in this story, we're meant to get to know them, try to understand how they think and watch them get completely destroyed by Yumeko.
@@gazelle1467 What do you mean we aren't suppose to relate? Most of us viewers watch a series to be entertained and sometimes we even imagine ourselves if we are in the same situation. You can't help but imagine yourself in it. A series can be very boring if we only see people that are so fictional that you can't even enjoy the series. Almost all of us viewers watch a series to be able to relate to or at least have some level of understanding of the characters personality to be more engaged. Kakegurui is a 50-50 of Story and character driven stories.
Suzui is only “relatable” in the very purest sense of the word. He is almost a blank slate, but through him, we learn nothing.
Suzui is like a slave to the anime. His very existence is to be, technically speaking "useless" which makes him relatable for the viewers. However, this approach as interesting as the concept is, doesn't really work in this situation. The characters have personality and are interesting, but his experiences with them aren't. It isn't that important for the viewers to relate to Suzui because it doesn't make the anime any more interesting.
Suzui is the blankest character I've ever seen
So we just ignoring the comment about he made last video that
being bullied a little and having to marry a rich man Is not that bad life for the girl characters?
I totally agree, my comment on the last video was in the first category, as well. Fun fact, did you know there are people that can't like videos? Because I can't, voluntarily anyway. I hate youtube pushing videos based off my history and likes instead of what I'm currently watching, so I have my watch history disabled, and can not ever like a video. (Not that I would like videos anyways, since it creates an annoying playlist of ever growing videos. That said, if a person wants to be out of the algorithm like me, they can still dislike videos? Not really sure why youtube doesn't take account of or remember dislikes for their system. Anyway, I just thought Jeff might like to know why a more that zero number of his fans won't ever like his videos. And maybe help some other people know how to keep video suggestions from stalking them from video to video, I guess.
I hope we will see another video on re:creators, I think it delivered on almost everything.
“Pushing characters to extreme is good for extracting the most extreme parts of their nature” it’s funny cause while this is true Kaiji himself actually says that’s false during the Salvation arc of the manga
The best gambling anime is JoJo's D'arby the gambler episodes. There I said it. Fight me.
Werthom00 can't fight the truth. Jojo does every genre perfectly
Best action
Best seinen
Best gambling
Best isekai
Best High school
Best feel trip
Best mécha
Best yaoi
axel edongo Best religious manga, with Jesus himself
It's all of those things except for the best JoJo anime, which is obviously Bungo Stray Dogs
R-r-r-r-r-r-raise?!
Fun fact: Jojo was a religious manga before part 7 because Giorno is the son of DIO; God in italian. So...
I really want to watch kaiji because I've heard nothing but praise but I'm scared that I'm going to be exhausted watching it because of how much tension is on the characters and I'm afraid that I'm going to drop it as a result because I won't be to justify continuing a show that I'm not enjoying to myself
LOVE your videos, could you do one on Utena???
Appreciate the video Jeff! Want to thank you again for introducing my friends and i to Kaiji =)
I don't really care that much about Kakegurui. It's entertaining, but i would'nt say it's artistically cogent. However, talking bad about New Game, them be fighting words Geoff. Sure, the show does a lot of Moe blob nonsense, but it has a really great group of characters that feel genuinely human for the most part. Especially in season 2 we've seen a story with raw emotion that you wouldn't get in your typical cute girls doing cute things show.
Have you done an analysis of ballroom e youkoso? I really like the way you break down this anime. I will definitely watch it and see what points i agree with. I think ballroom e youkoso is a really good anime that is actually praised by the ballroom dancing community.
You got me to watch Kaiji and god am I loving it thanks b
People think Kakiguri is a character study?
I mean yes, I guess, but when watching it I didn't think that was the main focus hahahahaha
Sorry I'm saying I agree with Jeff
Lol, Kakegurui is nowhere near a character study. You could make a character study out of it, but it sure wasn't made with the intention as such.
@@GoodwillWright They won't understand.
You can't really compare Kaiji to Kakegurui just because of the theme of gambling since they're pretty much total opposites.
Kaiji gets into insane gambles out of despair while Yumeko gambles for fun. One show is about drama, the other is about having fun.
Did he ever compare Naruto to HxH?
Except I can't have fun with Yumeko since her disposition is so alien.
I don't see why a character has to be "relatable" so you can apreciate it.
She's not just not relatable. I literally cannot comprehend her thought process because it is so divorced from the human condition. And the show's presentation doesn't even line up with the "fun" angle. The problem is that the show tries to present these gambles as being dramatic as opposed to fun by constantly telling us the stakes. This is because they know that they can't put the audience in Yumeko's shoes at all, so they have to default to the standard dramatic presentation, but this will inevitably create a dissonance that can't be reconciled.
@@phantombroker6856 You cannot comprehend her? I cannot comprehend Hisoka is so divorced from human condition. OH! congratulations, you discovered what a psychopath is.
7:35 HOLY SHIT! It's the Sukeroku track from Shouwa Genroku Rakugo Shinjuu! Hell yea!
Good job on this vid, and yes i'm totally digging the idea of response videos cuz it's pretty engaging and since the whole debate back and forth has a sizable scene in youtube you'd be benefiting from this
Am I the only one who enjoyed most of the gambling in the show?
"Gambling".
Me in 2018: He's wrong, bah this guy doesn't know what he's talking
* Watches Akagi and Kaiji *
Me rn: Dawm... He's 100% right
Nice
nice
I would love if you could do a video about The Ancient Magus' Bride
Goeff, you should watch Mardock Scramble. its a movie trilogy where the entire 2nd movie is a gambling thing.
I don’t have to relate to a character to love them, but I have to find them interesting and have a motive for their actions and a personality. Kakegurui didn’t deliver that to me while it does have cool looking characters that would be interesting they all fall back on trait and I can’t connect to them. Also the bullshit about Suzui being the main character and thus the audience, Suzui is just a pussy spectator that feeds us information and I personally don’t like that. I just think Suzui is so bland so you can’t even relate to him. These character are just insane to be insane and not in a good way. I don’t care about any of the characters because I want to care about Yumeko but she doesn’t care about stakes so I don’t feel tension and everyone who gets punished usually deserves it so I don’t even feel bad. But hey that’s just my opinion
Well this is clearly a bias comparison
MORE COMMENT RESPONSES PLEASE!!
comment response Idea is cool, you should do more.
Are you ever going to make a video about Kado: the right answer. You where a big advocate of it early on, and I am really interested in finding what you thought about where the show went, since oppinions of the later episodes where very polarized.
Please upvote so he sees it
KeybladeMasterNadroj
PLEASE. That goddamned ending game me PTSD xAx
I'm going to admit, I like Kakegurui. It's a guilty pleasure because I am a low key pervert who quite enjoys all of the psychotic personalities on display. I knew from watching the OP that it was going to be entertaining but not deep or thought provoking. And that's fine.
I have kind of a terrible and inconsistent taste in anime, and that's fine.
The thing is that bodily harm from something risky like gambling is two things piled on top of each other that my brain just /immediately/ wants nothing to do with. There was a torture blackjack(?) minigame in RE7, I was even watching a LP-er and I still procrastinated a loong time before even watching it all the way through because I had to keep pausing. I don't like risks much, either, and it's unlikely I'm going to get blood-pumping excitement from just about any action series. I'm gonna stay away from gambling anime, really, but this one is interesting and low-risk enough that I'm much more likely to count it as a baby step.
you should do a comment response to the video you dkd on the anime pirates
it would be interesting to see you respond to the criticism you got in that comment section
Is pokémon a gambling anime?
yes, you just letting a bunch of animals fight to death to get sum of dem greens. Also animal abuse.
Yumeko is what Totally Not Mark describes as the flat character that brings forth the truth- which in turn, inspires those around to change mostly for the better, or rarely, for the worse. The characters become...better peop-....morally uplift-....have their personalities fleshed out to give them more depth in spite of still being screwed up, manipulative people. She causes them to give up on their lies to pursue a better truth.
Your thoughts on Kakegurui has made me interested in what you think of the D'arby battles in Jojo. More so that first one.
Ok I won't be surprised if you drop another video of this series this week...
Every time I hear Kaiji, I instantly think of "ZAWA, ZAWA!"
The issue is that you are looking at Kakegurui protagonist vs other protagonist. One is rich psychopath that wants to have fun and play around, while the other one is a sore loser that tries to break through and is failing. They are two completely different people to explore and figure out. Personally I love to see different radical (Since all anime is basically taking real life personality and pushing it to the absolute extreme) characters and the lack of or inclusion of those type of characters is the main reason for me to like or dislike an anime.
@@Richie14033 OP literally didn't say anything about who they thought was a better or more interesting character. But okay, go off I guess.
I like both the community engagement and the expanded explanation offered in this video. Next time you release a controversial video, I'd love if Geoff would check the comments to see if enough sufficiently-interesting and/or -relevant points to make a video about are brought up.
Can you do an opening analysis on Koi to Uso? It's the only summer anime I'm following and I would be grateful if you did :)
Can someone start a kickstarter for kaiji season 3
So I'd just like to throw a huge shout out to say, Thank you for bringing Kaiji up, I ended up watching the series over a week or two after your recommendation and it was a ROLLERCOASTER, an absolute blast and a fantastic ride to be on. I'm a little sad that I finished it as it left me wanting more.... Though honestly I'm unsure if I could handle more! Haha
I feel like a lot of this boils down to the fact that Yumeko isn't a protagonist in the traditional sense. She's less a (main) character and more like this Mary Poppins-esque enigma - the series isn't about her as much as the effect she has on others around her. In a way, Suzui and Mary are much more of protagonists than she is, while Yumeko is a phenomena more than a character.
Yes I would like more of these comment response videos because while I definitely got what you were trying to say the first time I 1. Enjoy that this allows you to elaborate further and think just about all of these topics have hours upon hours of potential and 2. I just have always enjoyed debate and love the back and forth as both sides counter back and forth (part of the reason why while I usually find myself agreeing with you I enjoy your videos where I don't just as much)
So I disagree with Geoff on a bunch of points where it comes to this series. For example, I do think that there are stakes as seen as in the life plans handed out to students in debt and shows of sexual assault. While Yumeko herself generally doesn't seem to care (most likely because of crazy), keep in mind that any other character is also possibly subjected to this as well, and they definitely don't want to be subjected to this.
I do agree, however, that this isn't particularly a great character study of Yumeko. Part of the problem (and I think that this also contributes to not showing how Yumeko figures out the various cheats that Geoff has also complained about before) is I think Yumeko is written to be a bit of a "mysterious character," where you don't know her history and more importantly don't know what she's going to do next. In order to facilitate that, we the viewers are not privy to her internal thoughts the same way we get to hear everyone else's, and therefore we only see the parts of her that she shows to other characters as well. That disconnect prevents us from really relating with her, I think.
Except that yumeko herself doesn't seem to care about changing the system. She only cares about gambling.
I agree, the stakes are clearly there. Dismissing the the life plans because "at least you'll still be rich" is disgusting. Mary was in jeopardy of essentially being sold of to some old guy. Even Yumeko's stakes of being forced to be an idol is some kind of slavery.
I also disagreed with his point about the cheats being impossible for the viewer to guess. Most of the games were pretty clear, and whenever it turned out someone was cheating, it almost always turned out to be guess-able.
I don't think we are suppose to relate to Yumeko. There's a reason why Suzui is a character at all. Ever seen Godzilla? We don't know what goes through the King's mind, but we do see what he leaves in his wake.
Yeah, and I don't think it's a character study about her either. She's nuts, rich, and smart. That's about all we learn about her. Just like the bland protagonist exists as an audience insert to follow her around, she exists to show the other characters' crazy. Not really get into it. Just show us in the various ways they're crazy/messed-up. It's a visit to a zoo, not a scientific study.
Assuming you haven't watched new game season 2, cause it puts a lot more focus on game development.
I am glad you talked about Kaiji and Akagi in the other video. I went and binge watched them both and they were both fantastic.
I'd love to see more comment responses from your video on Netflix's Death Note, that would be a joy to watch.
Kakegurui is a good fetish fantasy fulfillment tho and thats what matters the most to me (and I'm sure many others)
+Irfan Fakhrianto *faps vigorously*
"Haters *hnnng* gonna hate"
This is a good attitude to have
Feel free to share what else is there because all I'm seeing is a bunch of hot girls making orgasm faces. The gambling is bad. The characters are shallow. But it imitates porn, that's what drew the audience in.
hurrdurrmurrgurr Murder kink. And lord knows I have a thing for guns. Occasional gore, but not enough to be overwhelming. Sick twisted people getting off on weird shit gets people going.
? i’d assume not?
@@magramirez5761 edgy shit that teens tend to idolize because they don't know better. We all have those kind of things we discovered in our teens. Is normal, and most of us end up recognizing most of those edgy for shock value things are just easy and empty and Kakegurui is just that. No shame in that.
Now, it also carries the risk of being eviscerated when critizicing it. Fact is most of anime is bad and a collection of fetishes wrapped in tropes repeated over and over and over again, but takes time and growth to recognize it.
For anyone wanting to read a gambling manga, let me recommend one of my favs that is so underrated.
It's called Liar Game. Honestly it's hard to describe what happens apart from psychological gambling, but it's so good. There's no anime but there is a live-action that is....ehhhhhh
Go read Tobakku Haoden Zero
Go read kaiji
It's always nice getting a well thought out editorial. If more mailbag/comment response videos were like this, maybe I wouldn't find them so tedious.
I'm not sure the majority of characters in stories are relatable because they often time they are either there to fill an archetype or are written in a way where they don't make rational decisions. There irrational decision is what often times causes the plot to progress. But, we watch them anyways because they're just entertaining. Yumeko and 90% of the characters in this show are insane. None of these personalities exist in real life, but that is also what makes them so fun to watch.
I do agree the games of these show could be better executed though even if is a moot point. Everything could be better. I would probably give Kaiji a shot if it wasn't so visually unappealing. Like seriously, someone please redraw this manga cause it such an eyesore. Why does everyone look like a Tengu! D:
You know what? Let me earn peoples ire here. Kakegurui > Paranoia Agent.
Kakegurui is what I wanted PA to become before PA went all fantasy stupid, devolving to just a single over played tragedy. (except the suicide club episode, that was well done.) I adore how in Kakegurui the most twisted of people seem to come out of the wood work who seemed so innocent at first. They essentially get the metal bat in the back of the head and made to rethink about their lives. In Kakegurui people change, how can they not when money is involved? Debt and status, something that seems to plague our very lives makes the risks these characters face very real. I don't see why you think only physical damage should be considered a real threat.
Also Yumeko would make a great wife for Hellsings Alucard.. It is hard to explain why.. but it feels right.
fuck you
Oh boi, this is going to be like "the sao videos" saga, isn't it?.
Virgo - kun Nah I doubt he has anything more to say on this matter but still has a lot to say about SAO
+Virgo - kun nah, after my season recap I am done
Until it comes out on Netflix
Mother's Basement I'd personally be fine with more SAO bashing, but you're probably sick of it by now.
Lets go! :D
Virgo - kun your profile pic goes perfectly with your comment
great! now I have to rewatch kaiji!
Comment response videos are definitely great!
that moment when someone says "no one can relate to this character" and me, and likely many others going by the comments and dislikes, ask why? or wonder why they need to relate to a character to be interested in them. If I wanted relatable characters I could find WAY more in live action shows. I watch anime to see personalities that are rare, insane, or just slightly different than my own. I want to be able to understand people who are different then me BECAUSE I don't understand them. It helps me understand someone's motives and why they ended up thinking so differently than myself. This line of thinking is one of the goals of the anime Hunter x Hunter, as well as tons of other shows, so I don't see why this idea would be beyond Geoff's understanding...
wowowowow, looks like someone doesnt get the concept "emotional atachment" i just dont give a crap if goku have a battle with zeno-sama because i know is going to win one way or another, so i find it boring to watch because i cant feel the fear of goku, i know he is wining no matter wath, with kakegurui, i dont feel emotional atachment to yumeko, i dont care if she loses or wins because i just cant empathize with someone who i dont understand, she is like hannibal lecter, she is getting away with every potential danger situation, and come on, even she doesnt care if she dies in a good gamble, EITHER WAY i gotta say that both, hannibal lecter and yumeko have some sort of charm, you dont care about if yumeko is winning, you care about HOW she is winning, and that, ladies and gentlemen is the reason why i love kakegurui and the hannibal saga, BECAUSE I WANT TO SEE OVERPOWERED GODLIKE PEOPLE MANIPULATING AND WINNING EVERY SINGLE FUCKING TIME, I WANNA SEE HOW IT HAPPENS!!!!
I don’t have to relate to a character to love them, but I have to find them interesting and have a motive for their actions and a personality. Kakegurui didn’t deliver that to me while it does have cool looking characters that would be interesting they all fall back on trait and I can’t connect to them. Also the bullshit about Suzui being the main character and thus the audience, Suzui is just a pussy spectator that feeds us information and I personally don’t like that. I just think Suzui is so bland so you can’t even relate to him. These character are just insane to be insane and not in a good way. I don’t care about any of the characters because I want to care about Yumeko but she doesn’t care about stakes so I don’t feel tension and everyone who gets punished usually deserves it so I don’t even feel bad. But hey that’s just my opinion
@@noxturne16 Suzui is barely in season 2 so I think the writer fixed that problem by that point in the story.
Yumeko doesn't care about stakes but she does want a fair game. She's fine with losing or winning as long as people play fairly.
I like Yumeko because she's unpredictable in what goal she may come up with in certain games. Usually you can assume she wants to win, but there's plenty of times where she wants to win in a certain way, is very intrigued by a games rules, or is annoyed by another character for not playing the game in the way she views as being "proper".
To be fair, there is zero tension in the show, but I rarely get the feeling that tension was even attempted. Usually this author's goal is to try to surprise, scare, or confuse their audience. I admit it's not what you'd expect from a gambling story, but considering Yumeko's biggest goal isn't to win any of her games, I think the author was never aiming for a conventional narrative anyway.
As for the insanity of most of the characters, it isn't too surprising they would act the way they do since:
1. They go to a school where only gambling and money matter.
2. They are all supposed to be "rich" elitists who view someone's worth based on how rich or successful they are at gambling.
3. They are all cheating so they look down on everyone since they don't believe they can be caught. As shown when some of them realize they might lose their money or freedom and start realizing how badly they could be about to lose.
You also have to remember they are all teenagers so imagine being a teen and losing a gamble so you become a slave for life?
It could be seen that Yumeko's purpose in the story is to reveal to all these people that they aren't as untouchable as they believe they are.
Anti-Nihilist I actually could predict most of the gambles and why Yumeko did it, if there was a plot twist I still wouldn’t be surprised. Again I don’t feel bad for the kids how get their lives ruined by gambling because it’s their fault or they did something horrible. So in my case, what’s the loin of no tension if I don’t get to see how the characters act under pressure when I know Yumeko barely cares or her opponent is just panicking or trying not to show it or like Yumeko. Yumeko always want the game to be fair so she can feel the thrill of gambling which is the main point for her and most if not all things come second. I just think for all the things happening in the show, nothing happened because I feel nothing for these characters and while it was entertaining for the first few episodes I got bored pretty quickly because I do like something that’s not having action happen all the time but there is something going on important while Kakegurui relies on shock value even though that’s not a bad thing but it’s all the time and in the end I’m usually not shocked or surprised in the slightest. I just feel like Kakegurui has a better visual take than story or characters
@@AntiNihilist relatable means a character doing something any of us would do in that situation or powers and it's not a ultimate thing to make a character likable but it sure is fucking necessary. That's how a character becomes even more interesting it's ok if it doesn't matter to YOU but a relatable character still is an achievement if there is no relatable character it's not a failure but if there is it's a extra point.
To start with, I take issue with anything that starts off with some equivalent of “more people agree with me, so my position is stronger.” Geoff is a reasonably popular UA-cam personality who provides quite a bit of quality content. The sheer fact that a quarter of his viewers disagreed with him should be enough to suggest that a major point was missed somewhere. What more, that ratio of disagreement to agreement is nearly twice the ratio of his some more controversial videos. It’s a perfectly natural reaction to double down on what someone perceives is a minority, but it misses the real issue that’s in play.
Now the actual points raise some issues too. The very first point is “Kakegurui can be entertaining, I said so in the video being referenced.” Which pretty much ignores the very constant tone of the first video of “Kakegurui just isn’t that good.” Now, the reasoning for that tone is the analysis of Kakegurui as a gambling anime, but that’s where the second issue comes in.
MB asks, “Isn’t it a huge problem if the gambling isn’t engaging because it’s poorly executed?” However, the best example of well executed gambling provided is Kaiji, which has what I consider to be ridiculously blunt, heavy handed, and not at all entertaining gambling with too much tension and drama. So I come back with the question, “Isn’t it a huge problem if the gambling isn’t engaging because it’s poorly executed?” directed at Kaiji in particular.
I don’t care to experience that tension and despair that Geoff thinks should qualify something as a gambling anime. Instead I enjoy the much simpler, episodic, self-contained type of gambling. The quick games with quick resolutions, and a few tricks that can be easily explained. One example I really like to bring up here is my personal favorite gambling series: Akagi. In Akagi there is very seldom actual tension; it’s always clear that Akagi will win, and the entertainment factor for me comes from watching the opponents dash themselves against what the show establishes to be a godlike wall. The entertainment factor isn't in the tension, it's in the schadenfreude you feel for the opponents. Even the one or two situations that should be dangerous to Akagi in that series are resolved through Deus ex Machina and hand-wavy explanations.
This is exactly the feeling I get when watching Kakegurui. I don't care much for the tension and the drama, I just want to see a fun game, and a clever resolution.
All that said, it’s absolutely true that it’s most definitely a critic’s job to criticize and analyze. As much as I disagree with a lot of the opinions presented here, they’re still very valid opinions from a particular perspective. My issue comes from the fact that these opinions are presented as the only truth. Being a critic doesn’t really endow with it the right to arbitrarily define a genre to be one’s particular taste. In other words, both of the videos really come down to one point. It’s all a long form essay that says “I would have liked this anime more if it took itself more seriously.” Only issue is that it's presented as a critical analysis of what constitutes a good gambling anime.
THIS. THIS is what I call a true peer review
Lol this comment alone makes me not even want to watch the vid.
yet, a majority of those that disliked the video agreed with him abd didnt listen to his point in the first point. also he never said his position is stronger. he said a quarter of people disagree with him from the comments, so he was going to adress their complaints. why the fuck is adressing other views and why you disagree with them a bad thing. why is adressing complaints a bad thing. this whole video is pointing out the very things you point out when critisised. also, kaiji is blunt and heavy handed? you can have you opinions, but your opinion isnt the end all be all on a shows worth. kaiji is considered one of the best gambiling anime by almost everyone who watches it. your opinion does matter, but more people are going to say otherwise. his opinion is still valid, and you having a diffrent opinion dosent make the things he said less valid then they are. you enjoy diffent kinds of gambling anime. thats fine. but there are many diffent kinds of gambling anime, just as shonen anime are diffrent and varied. Its message is diffent and its themes, just like luffy and gon and deku are diffrent. they have diffent protagainists. akagi and kaiji are ment to do diffrent things. you may not like one, you may hate both, or you could love both of them. you just want to see a fun game. but the games could still be better. akagi is amazing but the games are still amazing and the gambles are still increadble.
1. That isn't what Geoff is implying, at all. You seem to be stating that this was Geoff's attentions. When he's only doing a rundown of the situation.
2. Many shows can be entertaining and not be considered good by a critic. Take for example ; The Room, Deadpool, Most cheesy 80's horror movies. Entertaining isn't always the core aspect of what a reviewer finds exemplary. Just because Geoff considers something entertaining, doesn't mean he considers it good.
3. That's fine. I enjoy brainless action movies. Doesn't make the criticisms against them any less reasonable.
@@dustypaladin9216 So your complaint seems to be that I stated a different opinion, in response to an opinion I disagreed with? I literally finished off my post by stating that all his opinions are valid, despite the fact that I disagree with him. Yes, the entire point of that post above was that people expect different things from entertainment, and making broad statements can be offensive. Fortunately he's gotten much better at that over the past four years, so most of the practices I was criticizing are no longer an issue.[
That's a little disappointing that so many people didn't get your point as you said it. Hell, the fact that people are speaking out of arrogance is one of the worst things you can suffer from when it comes to your viewer base XD I'm really sorry you even had to make this response vid to begin with and please, keep up the good work. When I wanna lose months of my life on cartoons, I always come to you first for suggestions.
This made me go check to see if Gamble FIsh had an anime yet or not, since that's a pretty good one (y'know, if you can ignore the super-random cameo that happens pretty-late in; Mr. Omaha, I think they decided to call him?)
I am kind of on the last point, but that you are arbitrarily choosing by what yardstick gambling anime be measured. Kakegarui is not alone in these kind of hard to understand yet overpowered gambling protagonists, you also have No Game No Life, and Problem Children Are Coming. This show just lacks the fantasy elements those two had, and goes for the feel from something like Drifters.
If the show is still liked as good despite supposedly doing what it should wrong, then there should be a different way to look without saying it is only good for being crazy.
I enjoyed kakegurui manga for its aethetic, and I had zero anticipations about the gaming aspects or any serious stuff.
I remember trying to watch this anime and 3 episodes in I gave up cos the characters are so over the top and nobody does anything but the main girl and again, no F**king stakes
Comment response videos are a great way to interact with your audience. I'd love to see more of these.
I feel like it'd be more interesting to watch a critique of Kakegurui that isn't mostly composed of comparison to other shows. The most interesting parts of these videos is where you look at what it does well and poorly in its own context, but the second you start using it as a means to sucking of Kaiji it starts to feel... well, like you just want to praise Kaiji and are using Kakegurui as a means to an end. I understand that comparison can be used to elaborate on a point, but in these videos it feels less like use for elaboration and more like a crutch for the criticism.
Not a defense of Kakegurui or bashing Kaiji, I haven't seen either, just something I feel like should be addressed for these last couple videos.
ItionoBen But that's a good way to critique something. To compare it to something else. All critique is basically comparing it to something else. The reason he used Kaiji is because it's commonly thought of as one of the best gambling anime. He's trying to highlight how to do the gambling well
Yep. I still can't understand any points he is making because all of them can be also used on Akagi and One Outs and you'd have to be crazy to call that shows bad gambling shows. You can't just compare one show to the other and say it's bad because it's not exactly like the one you like.
omg someone who has the same opinion as me
Thank you
I totally agree with everything you said
But that is a great way to critique something. He can make comparisons and show stark contrast. Kaiji is the best way to do x or y, and so you can clearly see that by Kakegurui not doing x or y it is bad.
Also why are you criticizing him promoting an under appreciated and under watched masterpiece.
+link1117
If you compare an anime to a show you like the most that anime might seem bad because it didnt do the things you liked about your fav show.
You could compare any kind of show to your favorite show and it would worse to you. You simply mark a show as bad because it does something differently.
If he tried to show us how its done better to prove his point he shouldve given us a variety of different ways to do so but he only showed us an anime with one way of doing it which then seems like 'the one and perfect way of approching the goal'.
Please avoid the comment section. Just a bunch of people who don't like critiques about something they like. Bottom line is the show has flaws but it is still damn enjoyable.
Sounds like every show in existence, can be enjoyable although it has flaws.
Sandro Sliske that depends on the critiques. Geoff is wrong about almost everything in his SAO videos for example.
Geoff doesn't know that Kakegurui being a bad gambling anime is subjective either, he is dumb enough to think thats an objective fact, not an opinion.
Then he compares it to Kaiji (in his opinion one of the greatest gambling anime)??? How disingenuous of Geoff!
Sandro Sliske, people can have diffrent opinion you idiot
Only good show can't make people forget about flaws and still enjoy it.
Boyishdude
Yeah, they can also have their opinion on disliking.
that's some interesting videos in the 'up next" tab at the beginning of this video. especially the second one.
Agreed! 😁 Kakegurui promotes itself as a gambling anime. It's trying to be a gambling anime. It is a gambling anime. Gambling is all they ever do and is all the main character wants to do. It just fails at it.
Honestly, you're not wrong. But as one of the previous comments had read, Kakegurui is about how Yumeko turns the school's system on to it's head. It's about the force of nature and how it can be so easily shifted. It is referenced a LOT in the manga through the character of Kirari, and I'm pretty sure that she mentions it in the anime too. She clearly states that the academy is "her own little aquarium" and she enjoys seeing what happens in it simply for amusement. Sure, it tries to be a gambling anime and it fails. That is a fact. But that's not what it's about, it's about the heirarchy and how it is completely shut down because of one character coming in and ruining everything - which is why the main antagonists of the anime (the student council) are so afraid of her.
I still think the gambling sceenes in Jojo - Stardustcrusaders is one of the best I have ever seen. "Rr Rr Rrraaiiiiseee ?!" ^^
Not just Jotaro vs D'Arby, Joseph vs D'Arby was great as well. But if it was more than a one-shot, it'd probably overstay its' welcome.
I kind of disagree, and I think Geoff's experience of watching Kakegurui was just ruined by having already seen Kaiji and comparing the two together in his own mind. After the first couple episodes, I thought the gambling was super "engaging", in the way that with every new game, I had a chance to try and guess how the next Student Council member would try to cheat (and how Yumiko would figure it out herself). It was a gambling anime, because *I* was able to gamble along with the characters in real time.
Totally agree
That’s not gambling, that’s mystery. It is a completely different genre. While you could certainly make the point that Kakegurrui is a good mystery show, it’s in no way a comeback to any agreement Geoff makes
If there are no stakes, it isn't a gamble, it is a puzzle.
Are you ever going to make a video on koi to uso? Despite made in abyss it seems like the only big name this season you haven't made a video on but at least you've mentioned made in abyss, unless I'm missing something you haven't talked about koi to uso at all. I don't think it's a masterpiece or anything, I just like it and am wondering if you'll ever make anything on it.
tbh because of your videos I started watching this and also sword art online
Hey, I like Yumeko's Personality, Haha.
"Personality"
>liking your own video
That was his editor.
ok
ok
.. shh... let it die. and hope you do houseki no kuni as an art style take on philosophical art. and mainly a reminder its next month.
i do agree with all your points, kaiji keeps me on the edge of my seat all the time
I think the only reason why I enjoy this show so much is because I like the characters and their crazy ass reactions. Kind of like a guilty pleasure of this season.
That, and Yumeko is top tier waifu material
Kakegurui is only good in its philosophical exploration of the human desire for risk and probability theory. The over sexualization of everything caters to the lowest common denominator. It is too repetitive, and as a viewer, there is no emotional stake on the line because after 3 or 4 matches, we learn that Yumeko wins every time, and she has no fear of losing, so where is the risk for the viewer?
Also it was unnecessary to have this show set in a school. The student council could have been yakuza that controlled a city centered around gambling (a japanese version of Las Vegas)
The school thing is a tired anime trope.
Aside from that criticism, i found the philosophy of risk addiction to be interesting, as well as the president’s philosophy.
I had dropped this show around episode 6. I do agree that there is little to no threat in this show. I haven't seen Kaiji, but I should give it a look. Also the faces did become tiring for me.
There's a lot to munch on in this video. Good job. Hopefully you do more of these comment-responses in the future.