I'm a product of the LDS Indian Adoption Program ....or as I refer to it as Save the Little Savages Program. I just turned 65 and recovering. Married at 15, divorced at almost 18. Third marriage dissolving (DV in all) my suffering to earn my kingdom. I always wondered why I stayed for so long and suffered. You young women helped me reason out why. I was raised very strict Mormon both parents high positions in the church. I was SA by an uncle (LDS) and abused in my home...too much spirit I guess that they tried to break. I was messed up mentally but tough. Please keep doing what your doing and the Indian Adoption is also something to look into❤
I’m incredibly sorry that you were subjected to such awful abuse. I can’t imagine how much deeper your suffering has been due to your “adoption” (which is a wildly generous term) and the erasure of your heritage. I don’t know if it’s any solace to you but today, the US Supreme Court upheld ICWA. It’s a relief to know that even _this_ Supreme Court has its limits when it comes to rolling back the meager equality this country has attained.
The way she's explaining how the wives had to raise the kids by themselves and support themselves financially, it kind of reminds me off my brother's former downstairs neighbour who was a muslim woman married to a muslim man with multiple wives, and she had three kids I think. That's of course not legal here in Sweden so every wife had their own apartment where they lived with their kids and he'd come by and visit now and again, but he couldn't financially support all of them, so some of them were on welfare as "single mothers" while others worked. Personally, I don't give an ish how many spouses you have as long as it's consensual, but don't have them if you can't at least contribute financially to the household and certainly don't have so many children that you can't have a personal relationship with them or support them.
In Warren Jeff's group (he is in prison) they did a similar thing for government benefits. I've heard it is called "bleeding the beast". The "beast", of course, is the government.
Amanda & her sisters show (Escaping Polygamy) is what started me down the cult rabbit hole. I remember being shocked this kind of cult was operating so openly. I love the work she is doing to help others escape and bring these horrible people running the the order into the light. I think her brother Eskel would be an incredible conversation as well. Thanks for another great episode!
I’m so happy she’s on here!!! I came out about 2 years ago and told my story in the comment section of one of her videos, and every now I then I still receive replies asking how I’m doing, she has a beautiful community, and a good heart.
I love that! We have a C2C guest application form if you’re ever interested in telling it officially 😊 it’s on my page in the links under “about” section
@@CultstoConsciousnessthank you for presenting that opportunity to me, I’m not quite ready yet to share my story but I’ll definitely look into it when I am!
@@morganmann5366it might help you to share your experience. I understand that it’s difficult to talk about at this time but it will help you get it out to set yourself free from the madness of this evil cult
I’m familiar with this cult from the TV show Escaping Polygamy. It is mind-boggling to me that the Feds haven’t come in and closed this cult down. Thank you Shelise for having Amanda onto share her story with all of us. 💗
One of the hard parts of being a woman leaving a cult is not having someone to tell you what to do for the first time, I still struggle with decisions almost 7 years later
Yes it the most difficult and challenging thing for me to learn how I’m what is my purpose in life for me self if I’m not doing what “I’m supposed to do or be” so if it’s not the right way and everything I knew about myself and the world is lies and deception what is the truth and what is the “right way “ and I know it doesn’t make sense but 10 years later I’m still learning how to live for myself and do what I want i don’t have the normal way of thinking freely and just do whatever I want is still scary to choose to get to know myself and to to learn my own belief and desire but it’s guts better the work with my therapist is hoping and close friends ❤❤❤
I relate to her so much. We were non active mainstream Mormons, and my parents had us isolated on the side of a mountain, in what I understand now was a family cult dynamic. Most of us were “homeschooled” with no real education outside scripture lessons. As the third oldest, I was assigned the nurturing role. I developed a very motherly bond with my baby siblings as I was a teenager when many were born. There were 12 of us. When I dared come against my abusive parents by trying to report abuse, the family system worked tirelessly to sully my name in the family, and alienating me from all of my siblings that I raised. Though most of them are grown now, and are slowly coming back to me when they need help, the damage is still done. The kids still internalized those years of negative beliefs about me. I was diagnosed with ptsd and still have dreams they’re all babies again and I’m able to protect them. Years later and I still feel as though my kids were stolen from me all because I fought the family enmeshed cult. I’m 38 now, and refuse to have my own children. I will never let anyone ever control me or blackmail me through my love for my children again. Raising children is the most dangerous risk to heartache. People that knew these were my children more than my mothers new that they could dominate me and threatened me, and discipline me through withholding my kids. Never again. I lost them. I will never let myself be that vulnerable again. Motherhood is so vulnerable. If an ex, or anyone wants to hurt you, they always go through the kids first.
I lived in Salt Lake City in the 1990's. I remember during the time about a big story about a girl who was forcibly married to her uncle. She tried to run away several times until her father took her out to the middle of nowhere, beat the snot out of her and then left her there. Maybe he meant to go back for her, but she made her way to a convenience store and the police were called. There was a trial and a lot of ugliness was made public. I think this was the Kingston group and apparently, incestuous marriages were/are the norm.
Maybe your brain atunes to them, since they are the closest danger that u had to experinece while growing up? I know people that grew up with narcissistic family members or emotional unpredictalbe onces have that. U just know, since your subconcious tries so hard to protect u from new people like that.
@@CultstoConsciousness I've known about Mormonism for a long time, but this is interesting. Does anyone know if there are any Shakers from Western Massachusetts still living? That, too, would be interesting to hear their take on things.
My best friend in high school was a Kingston, his Mom was my Mom's cousin. He was a good guy, but he was definitely brain washed and couldn't see the stuff going on in his religion. He had been working since he was 12 and he was only paid in "Kingston Bucks" and it took him months to realize that.
We're all brainwashed by our society to belleve that all sorts of nonsense is "true" when they are actually just arbitrary, made-up, cultural ideas and opinions used to establish order and control on behalf of the powerful.
my son dated a kingston girl for a few years 😅 her mother left with her and her sister but her father would still lurk, offer her money, ect to come back. She’s a great girl and she’s out here thriving now! As “never mo’s” it was a learning experience
They always want the girls back, one of Amanda's cousins was saying her dad would always talk about how he'd never been to prison or had a wife leave. Only for them to discover a wife had and taken all her children when one of the daughters came back wanting to meet her dad. They were immediately trying to push her into marriage, she ran as fast as she could thankfully
I’m so glad that you also noticed Kody Brown’s Personality Disorder! I would not be surprised if he was diagnosed as a Narcissistic Sociopath. He is cruel, thoughtless and lacks insight into himself and others. He ALWAYS puts himself and his situation before others - including his children - treating them dreadfully, unless it also benefits himself. Moreover, Kody lacks empathy, the ability to see things from other perspectives, how certain things or actions affect others, etc.
Such a great interview! For the commenter who asked about how to identify and help people in cults, where I live there are signs in most restrooms with information on resources + hotline numbers for people in abusive/trafficking situations. That way anyone who needs help can use the info when they're ready to leave, without feeling like they're being confronted by a stranger (and possibly with the interaction being reported back to their abuser).
"interaction being reported back to their abuser".. You mean the UA-cam comments section. I've reported some fake profiles conversing on false narratives with several videos from people who have never been LDS but make up rumors. The Mormons Forgotten Disabled and the two Zelph videos.
I remember Amanda from her show Escaping Polygamy! I was obsessed with that show because it was so heartbreaking. I probably cried at every episode. I am so happy to see what she has done since then and she is continuing to heal out loud. You are so amazing Amanda!
I remember being paired with some order boys in High School for a "group project' and I had to tell my teacher that I needed SWITCH bc they would not even talk to me, they only talked over me, and were so rude.
Have either Shelise or Amanda discussed anywhere the fact that a cult basically runs the entire state of Utah? Realizing the implications of this has become more and more disturbing the more I’ve learned.
Utahn here. They don’t basically run it, they do. And we all know it. They own the local Coca Cola bottling company, but caffeine is against the rules. Our downtown area’s streets are literally named after and routed entirely around the temple. As a kid, non-Mormons are the “bad” kids and aren’t allowed at Mormon homes. We know, and we’re very separated.
This is so mind-blowing. Amanda, you are amazing. I can't believe I haven't seen the show. I knew of these various groups that broke away from mainstream LDS and continued polygamy, but I never realized the horrible depths they reached. I probably didn't want to let myself discover these things when I was younger (for example, even the silly reality TV version like Sister Wives was difficult for me to watch).
I am so, so sorry what you had to go through. These incestual relationships made me shiver multiple times. I am happy you're out and talking about it. ❤ stay safe
I was so excited to see this. I love Amanda. I appreciate her honestly so much. She's so knowledgeable, kind, and I love her quirky, sometimes dark humor. Her channel is great. I highly recommend her video on weird foods order members eat. This episode made me so happy.
I started asking a lot of questions in church as a teenager. After deciding religion wasn't for me, some family members weren't happy, but eventually accepted my choice. I cannot even imagine what you went through. Your strength is a testament to your character and I only wish the best for you! Some of the best families are the ones you choose, not always the ones you are born into.
When I worked in the temple, there was a temple worker who refused to let someone enter with an active temple recommend because he had a tattoo and the temple president lost it on that temple worker for being so heartless. The temple matron had a meeting with all of the sisters who were temple workers to tell us that we can’t tolerate that, and should correct the male temple workers who are denying people entry due to tattoos. It was my favorite meeting at the temple worker ever haha
whaaaaaaat?! thats terrible. He doesn't know that persons story. They could be a convert. They could have been inactive and returned to church. Heck, he could have always been active and gotten a tattoo
@@Amandaaa2244and there will born a child with a picture of a lion as it were on his left hand . There talking about visible Judah. He literally has a picture of a lion as it were on his left hand . Judahs Father is Lord Jesus Christ . I think it is in the testament of Joseph or Judah. Came out of his Father's loins . Jesus is God .
I am in aw over how intellectual this woman is and how intuitive she is. Such an inspection to people just thinking outside of what they are taught. It is so very hard to put yourself out of everything you have ever known.
I’m so happy, that this interview finally happened and I can’t wait for the next one. This was a really great episode and both of you have so much information to share about all of your experiences. I hope you both have a wonderful weekend and I can’t wait to see your next chapters on both of your channels. Hugs to both of you amazing young women.🤗🤗
They don't care. Kids are a status symbol. They want women to have lots of kids to expand the church, provide more labor and provide more young girls to marry back into the cult.
The leaders claim there's no issues, but they're now genetically testing kids to see who they can safely marry. But its all "direction from god" of course
Terrible growing up in disfunction and then leaving to see reality of the disfunction. It must have been extremely difficult. I am appalled that this exists. Simply unbelievable. You are helping others as well as yourself 🙏🏻
I requested this!! I’ve requested to watch Amanda on a few different peoples channels! Love her! So much knowledge and so amazing at helping others! So excited to see her here! ❤ 5:35
The level of control, implied or otherwise in the "regular" LDS church is over the top. I am so sorry for your experience and relieved for you that you figured it out. I was an all in adult covert, age 25 to 65.then ...extracted myself. What a relief. I wish you the best.
This is my new favorite episode!!! Thank you and Amanda for spreading the word and helping as many people as you both can. Two amazing and beautiful people making the world a better place ❤️
This was such a great episode. Thank you both!!! Also you guys have SUCH good chemistry!!! Would love to see you guys do something even once a quarter on different topics or to continue raising awareness for holding out help
@@alexwyatt2911 ... For starters, in the 19th century, women got married no younger than was typical of the American frontier. And they entered these marriages of their own free choice.
Im a new watcher and you both seem like extremely strong women. Im glad you escaped your situations.What you are doing is amazingly valuable. Keep up the good work.😊
The fact that she’s almost in tears most of the video. You can hear the pain and heartbreak in her voice! Awww my heart goes to her and everyone who has gone through this form of manipulation and has loved a life of lies!
Woohoo!!! It’s Amanda!!! Btw, my 26yr old daughter is also Amanda, named after my childhood best friend, two of the most amazing people in the world!! xx
Even leaving an abusive marriage no matter what religion or belief system is super difficult and frightening because where can a woman flee to with her kids! She has to leave the home and then go where? What if she doesn’t have relatives or close friends?
Yeah children are the reason a lot of women stay, especially in these groups where the first wife is also legally tied to him and the fathers are actually on the birth certificates, so can and will fight to keep especially daughters in the group. Increasingly pets are also a concern, especially as most domestic abuse centres won't take pets that aren't service dogs
I found this channel 3 days ago and can't stop watching. She is doing such a good job exposing all these cults. This is a very important channel and she is helping so many people and I love it .
My mother isn't allowed to have a relationship with me due to her craazy abusive husband...its only a tiny sliver of what you explained but it hurts so nad. Amanda and everyone who has left are amazingly strong!!!💜💜
I SO enjoyed this interview. Both of you deal with the nitty-gritty in such a classy and intelligent way. Cracked me up when you said "ornery" was a Utah word - I grew up in Texas with family trees in Oklahoma and Louisiana. Very common usage in the South! This made me thankful that I grew up with a Baptist preacher dad who was very knowledgeable about cults but never used that word, just taught me a few things, beginning with Catholicism. By the time I was a teenager, I kinda felt sorry for the JWs or LDS that showed up at our door - like, are you sure you wanna come in? - not because he would ever berate them but would try his best to show them scriptural truth. I never once heard him put anyone down or say a bad word like we were superior. With him, race, gender, age, religion, money didn't matter.
@@CultstoConsciousness I love Amanda I have watched all her videos and subscribe to her patreon and I have been listening and watching your videos for ages so love the both together 🥰
I have a dear friend, a gay man, who grew up in a strict catholic household and was forced to go to a conversion therapy camp in his teens/20’s and he dealt with so much pain and internal torture from the whole experience… he felt forced to live a lie, believing he was going to rot in hell because he was broken and not good enough to make it to Heaven, seeing close friends of his taking their own lives.. caused a lot of damage in him. It’s heartbreaking stuff, does wayyy more harm than good. Thank God, thru time and lots and lots of therapy, he got away from all that and is living his best life, as 💯 his authentic self, happily with his life partner of 25+ years.. (and has a beautiful relationship with God even), so I couldn’t be more happy for him! Not everyone’s story has a happy ending though:( those kinds of programs should be illegal imo
I've been waiting for this!! I've been following Amanda’s channel for months - it's wonderful to hear her share her story on someone else’s show. Amanda, you're amazing!!! ❤️
I didn't request it oh here but I requested on mormon stories that amanda and ezkel be interviewed, ezkel is active in the main steam lds church. I'm really excited for this interview.
That was the fastest hour, it just zipped on by! I could listen to you guys talking for hours and hours! 💞😇 I know I’ve suggested it before, but are there any updates on maybe interviewing Sam and Melissa from @GrowingUpInPolygamy? 🤗
Amanda I definitely heard an accent when you started speaking! I don't think it's a Utah accent but what do I know. Thank you so much for sharing you are so fun to listen to!!!
you could actually give seminars to local police. you could train the cops on how to pick up and help escapees in plain clothes or whatever. maybe they could help you form committees to network around FLDS areas so everyone is covered if they chose to leave.
@@CultstoConsciousness i hope it helps. i live in Aroostook county, Maine and we are increasingly surrounded by Amish farms and businesses. it is usually very nice and an enhancement of our own farming community BUT their ethics run undetected and it is almost impossible to reach out. none of their kids have medical because they do not believe in insurance although they could buy a group policy and cover everyone. one child recently got a deformed leg simply because he broke his leg without any modern medical care. one man DIED from an infected tooth. you see?
Shelise, just finding your channel. Love it, except...your opening is so happy, upbeat, fun, you are happy and smiling almost laughing, then you go right into these serious subjects...talk about triggering. Your channel is so important but a little seriousness leading in would be appropriate. But the end, definitely a place to be happy and rejoice. Love the Linda!!
Hi! I appreciate the feedback. I do feel it’s ok have levity in the beginning. Mostly because it helps the guest settle in and feel more comfortable. I let them take the lead when it comes to how serious they want to get and how fast. Aside from one phone call we are complete strangers. Also, I feel opening with a smile can be disarming as a therapist might be initially. Lastly, I usually banter with the guest 10-20 mins before and I keep it light to help them feel less nervous. I think if I were to immediately go into a somber mode, it would feel unnatural and they would feel uncomfortable. Lots to think about, but I do appreciate the concerns
When we moved to Utah, we were a few blocks from one of the Kingston groups of housing. (I recognized where Shanell's mom lived as something right down the street) It just looked extremely run down and very sparse with people, even though there were kids toys all over the yards. At one point, one of the barns burned down and our neighborhood was like "hey, we should put some stuff together and take it to them". One of the neighbors said "don't bother, they won't talk to you or accept it". And they didnt. It was like the person who took it to them was some kind of monster. They wanted absolutely nothing to do with the outside public.
Oh my! I just found out you are from Tremonton! I am from Logan. How very weird that all these people from "Down State" seem to be from "Somewhere Else." That is convenient isn't it?
My friend, raised strict 7th Day Adventist (also a cult!), was always "encouraged" by his mom to keep going to church when he became an adult. He didn't but he told her once that he was going to Mormon services and she was appalled.😂
I use to drive by a few Kingston homes everyday on my way to work (the homes were just down the street). The houses are very run down and dirty. It was so sad to see the conditions they live in both on the show and in the real world.
I’m playing catch up on your videos and I find this lovely ray of sunshine Amanda ☀️ I’m going straight to part 2 to hear more of her courageous journey ❤️
The part where she is able to identify ‘one of her own’ in Vegas or at the gym is interesting 🧐 When you are in something so removed from regular society, it’s us vs them. Great guest, she seems like such a cool person ❤
Omg TREMONTON.. Shelise 😂❤ I'm from there!!! I'm sure we didn't cross paths because I'm Hella old.... But.. maybe it's time for my story as a believing Mormon for 63 years.... But now I'm out!!!!! Divorced, and have a boyfriend and happily drinking coffee and wine, life is amazing. It might be time for an older white post morm woman... L0L let's talk. 🎉🎉🎉😂😂😂❤❤❤ Love your channel
The more I listen to these the more I realize I grew up in like a "familial cult" idk if that's a thing but all these experiences really remind me of my childhood 🤔
Shelise on the show escaping polygymy, there was a lady who had like $20,000 in her acct from a car accident settlement. When she tried to leave, the (kingston)bank said they coukdnt give it all to her cuz they didnt have it. I think they only gave her like $5,000. Then they called all sorts of members to tell she was trying to leave!! 9:49
Both of you gals are exceptionally lovely. I’m so glad you two escaped that restrictive environment. I’m sure they had nefarious plans for you . When I traveled through Utah I felt that everyone was phony. They seemed to have that “keep sweet” mentality that creeped me out. I mentioned that in a comment and was trolled about it. I still maintain that it was a “Stepford Wives” vibe there.
Aww thank you, Kathleen! Yes, the “keep sweet” vibe very much exists. I’d say more in the FLDS than the mainstream LDS, but it all stems from the same place. The incessant urge to be perfect and make it look like your life is perfect. Because happiness is only achieved through worthiness…so if you aren’t happy, then you’re doing something wrong. It creates a lot of toxic positivity and bypassing.
I agree...both pretty and both smart. Can't understand how women can stand living like that. I watched the "Sister Wives" show from the beginning, but could see jealousy between women early on. Took 10 years for the split to occur. Cody was always a narcicistic jerk❗
@@CultstoConsciousness ... We LDS try to be decent folks. Fight against the FLDS and Kingston group all you want, but don't drag US into your crosshairs. ua-cam.com/video/IzLWFWiIUng/v-deo.html
Great interview. I've now watched every episode. ❤ In this, when discussing spotting members via a carriage/walk. I understand completely. Some of my personal traumas have left me ultra sensitive to other predators. That sounds a bit savage, but that's the truth of it.
I'm not in a polygamous relationship right now, but I'm atheist and was in an independent polygamous relationship before the difference being: I (f) was openly bisexual and the driving force. All three of us started out as friends first and grew closer in a triangle and had a sit-down and decided together to be in a relationship with both other parties simultaneously... but yeah - I guess that's not very common.
Ibapah! I can’t believe there’s order members there!! My little brother was from the Goshute Tribe. That’s their town. It’s so tiny-tiny. Crazy! I’m shocked. On the other hand, I’ve been waiting for you to interview Amanda Rae!
My coworker from a small rural town in California said "onry." I knew she meant "ornery" from the context, but I'd never heard it said that way before!
Haha did she pronounce it like us Utahns? 😂 imagine my surprise when I tried to text it for the first time like awnry or honry and autocorrect was like “girl, what?”🧐
Hhuumm listening to this I’m completely understanding why that show sister wives worked out the way it did. Kody Brown may say he’s not FLDS but he’s everything you just described.
I'm a product of the LDS Indian Adoption Program ....or as I refer to it as Save the Little Savages Program. I just turned 65 and recovering. Married at 15, divorced at almost 18. Third marriage dissolving (DV in all) my suffering to earn my kingdom. I always wondered why I stayed for so long and suffered. You young women helped me reason out why. I was raised very strict Mormon both parents high positions in the church. I was SA by an uncle (LDS) and abused in my home...too much spirit I guess that they tried to break. I was messed up mentally but tough. Please keep doing what your doing and the Indian Adoption is also something to look into❤
Hi Betsy! Thank you for sharing. I’d love to chat with you further. You can email me at cultstoconsciousness@gmail.com ❤️
I’m incredibly sorry that you were subjected to such awful abuse. I can’t imagine how much deeper your suffering has been due to your “adoption” (which is a wildly generous term) and the erasure of your heritage.
I don’t know if it’s any solace to you but today, the US Supreme Court upheld ICWA. It’s a relief to know that even _this_ Supreme Court has its limits when it comes to rolling back the meager equality this country has attained.
One thing to think on is the uncle wasn't related to you by blood. I know someone who was groomed and R by her biological father.
Wow I’m sorry you went through that.., 😢
I am so sorry you have had to go through this.❤
The way she's explaining how the wives had to raise the kids by themselves and support themselves financially, it kind of reminds me off my brother's former downstairs neighbour who was a muslim woman married to a muslim man with multiple wives, and she had three kids I think. That's of course not legal here in Sweden so every wife had their own apartment where they lived with their kids and he'd come by and visit now and again, but he couldn't financially support all of them, so some of them were on welfare as "single mothers" while others worked. Personally, I don't give an ish how many spouses you have as long as it's consensual, but don't have them if you can't at least contribute financially to the household and certainly don't have so many children that you can't have a personal relationship with them or support them.
Right? Really shows the order of that guy's priorities
In Warren Jeff's group (he is in prison) they did a similar thing for government benefits. I've heard it is called "bleeding the beast". The "beast", of course, is the government.
Literally what is the point 😂
I agree. So wrong to do that to these women AND the children.
That's very common among African muslims even if all the wives are in the same family compound. I live in West Africa so I see it often.
Amanda & her sisters show (Escaping Polygamy) is what started me down the cult rabbit hole. I remember being shocked this kind of cult was operating so openly. I love the work she is doing to help others escape and bring these horrible people running the the order into the light. I think her brother Eskel would be an incredible conversation as well. Thanks for another great episode!
Yes! I’m going to see if he’s willing to come on 😁
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Who is actually shocked Amanda is the most requested? She's a badass in exposing these nasty cults!
Riiiiight?! 😎
it's because in a world where silence is violence, speaking truth so openly is SO powerful!
Amanda is a bad ass and a beautiful young woman.
I’m so happy she’s on here!!! I came out about 2 years ago and told my story in the comment section of one of her videos, and every now I then I still receive replies asking how I’m doing, she has a beautiful community, and a good heart.
I love that! We have a C2C guest application form if you’re ever interested in telling it officially 😊 it’s on my page in the links under “about” section
@@CultstoConsciousnessthank you for presenting that opportunity to me, I’m not quite ready yet to share my story but I’ll definitely look into it when I am!
@@morganmann5366it might help you to share your experience. I understand that it’s difficult to talk about at this time but it will help you get it out to set yourself free from the madness of this evil cult
I’m familiar with this cult from the TV show Escaping Polygamy. It is mind-boggling to me that the Feds haven’t come in and closed this cult down. Thank you Shelise for having Amanda onto share her story with all of us. 💗
I agree! It’s crazy! Thanks for your support!❤️
The feds are probably in on it.
Money.... that's why... or at least that is what I think. I believe they are paid to stay away.
One of the hard parts of being a woman leaving a cult is not having someone to tell you what to do for the first time, I still struggle with decisions almost 7 years later
Absolutely. When your life is mapped out for you and you literally have no choices, once that door opens, it’s overwhelming!
one day at a time ..
I feel that way and haven't been in a cult, I can only imagine how y'all feel 🥺
I grew up in what I would call a family cult and had exactly the same problem. It was so hard to take charge when that was literally beaten out of me.
Yes it the most difficult and challenging thing for me to learn how I’m what is my purpose in life for me self if I’m not doing what “I’m supposed to do or be” so if it’s not the right way and everything I knew about myself and the world is lies and deception what is the truth and what is the “right way “ and I know it doesn’t make sense but 10 years later I’m still learning how to live for myself and do what I want i don’t have the normal way of thinking freely and just do whatever I want is still scary to choose to get to know myself and to to learn my own belief and desire but it’s guts better the work with my therapist is hoping and close friends ❤❤❤
I cannot imagine having a convo with my spouse and referring to mom or dad and it being the same for both of us!
😬
I relate to her so much. We were non active mainstream Mormons, and my parents had us isolated on the side of a mountain, in what I understand now was a family cult dynamic. Most of us were “homeschooled” with no real education outside scripture lessons. As the third oldest, I was assigned the nurturing role. I developed a very motherly bond with my baby siblings as I was a teenager when many were born. There were 12 of us. When I dared come against my abusive parents by trying to report abuse, the family system worked tirelessly to sully my name in the family, and alienating me from all of my siblings that I raised. Though most of them are grown now, and are slowly coming back to me when they need help, the damage is still done. The kids still internalized those years of negative beliefs about me. I was diagnosed with ptsd and still have dreams they’re all babies again and I’m able to protect them. Years later and I still feel as though my kids were stolen from me all because I fought the family enmeshed cult. I’m 38 now, and refuse to have my own children. I will never let anyone ever control me or blackmail me through my love for my children again. Raising children is the most dangerous risk to heartache. People that knew these were my children more than my mothers new that they could dominate me and threatened me, and discipline me through withholding my kids. Never again. I lost them. I will never let myself be that vulnerable again. Motherhood is so vulnerable. If an ex, or anyone wants to hurt you, they always go through the kids first.
🤍🤍🤍🤍
🩵🩵🩵🫂
I lived in Salt Lake City in the 1990's. I remember during the time about a big story about a girl who was forcibly married to her uncle. She tried to run away several times until her father took her out to the middle of nowhere, beat the snot out of her and then left her there. Maybe he meant to go back for her, but she made her way to a convenience store and the police were called. There was a trial and a lot of ugliness was made public. I think this was the Kingston group and apparently, incestuous marriages were/are the norm.
Yes I think Amanda talks about this on her channel actually. Or at the very least it was in “Escaping Polygamy” on tv
That's just horrific. I'm glad she got away and the authorities believed her.
Amanda has talked about this on her channel; they are her relatives 😭
I was living in SLC them. I remember that incident.
How terrible! 😢 I hope she have a good life now.
47:30 I so relate to this. I was born in a cult in Finland and I can always spot a member of that group. I can’t explain why but I just can.
Maybe your brain atunes to them, since they are the closest danger that u had to experinece while growing up? I know people that grew up with narcissistic family members or emotional unpredictalbe onces have that. U just know, since your subconcious tries so hard to protect u from new people like that.
Mitä? Onko Suomessa kultteja? 😳 Olisi mielenkiintoista tietää enemmän.
@@Maiju86 kultteja tai lahkoja. Kääntyy molemmiksi. Vaikkapa ihan vanhoillislestadiolaiset tai MAP-kirkko on lahkoja/kultteja BITE-määritelmän mukaan.
I’m so excited to see Amanda on the other side of the interview!
😜
@@CultstoConsciousness I've known about Mormonism for a long time, but this is interesting. Does anyone know if there are any Shakers from Western Massachusetts still living? That, too, would be interesting to hear their take on things.
My best friend in high school was a Kingston, his Mom was my Mom's cousin. He was a good guy, but he was definitely brain washed and couldn't see the stuff going on in his religion. He had been working since he was 12 and he was only paid in "Kingston Bucks" and it took him months to realize that.
We're all brainwashed by our society to belleve that all sorts of nonsense is "true" when they are actually just arbitrary, made-up, cultural ideas and opinions used to establish order and control on behalf of the powerful.
😢
Watching Amanda's glow up over time has been such a joy.
Genuinely love her
💯
She has such courage…there is so much enlightenment she carries.
Shelise, you are turning into a "cult buster" to be reckoned with! 😎
Love you, love Amanda. ❤️
Hahah yesss I love it! ❤️😁
my son dated a kingston girl for a few years 😅 her mother left with her and her sister but her father would still lurk, offer her money, ect to come back. She’s a great girl and she’s out here thriving now!
As “never mo’s” it was a learning experience
Oh wow! I’m glad she got out and is doing well!
They always want the girls back, one of Amanda's cousins was saying her dad would always talk about how he'd never been to prison or had a wife leave. Only for them to discover a wife had and taken all her children when one of the daughters came back wanting to meet her dad. They were immediately trying to push her into marriage, she ran as fast as she could thankfully
I’m so glad that you also noticed Kody Brown’s Personality Disorder! I would not be surprised if he was diagnosed as a Narcissistic Sociopath. He is cruel, thoughtless and lacks insight into himself and others. He ALWAYS puts himself and his situation before others - including his children - treating them dreadfully, unless it also benefits himself. Moreover, Kody lacks empathy, the ability to see things from other perspectives, how certain things or actions affect others, etc.
Such a great interview! For the commenter who asked about how to identify and help people in cults, where I live there are signs in most restrooms with information on resources + hotline numbers for people in abusive/trafficking situations. That way anyone who needs help can use the info when they're ready to leave, without feeling like they're being confronted by a stranger (and possibly with the interaction being reported back to their abuser).
Thanks, Meli! That’s a great idea!!
"interaction being reported back to their abuser".. You mean the UA-cam comments section. I've reported some fake profiles conversing on false narratives with several videos from people who have never been LDS but make up rumors. The Mormons Forgotten Disabled and the two Zelph videos.
How good!!
I remember Amanda from her show Escaping Polygamy! I was obsessed with that show because it was so heartbreaking. I probably cried at every episode. I am so happy to see what she has done since then and she is continuing to heal out loud. You are so amazing Amanda!
I remember being paired with some order boys in High School for a "group project' and I had to tell my teacher that I needed SWITCH bc they would not even talk to me, they only talked over me, and were so rude.
Ugh. The worst!
Have either Shelise or Amanda discussed anywhere the fact that a cult basically runs the entire state of Utah? Realizing the implications of this has become more and more disturbing the more I’ve learned.
Utahn here. They don’t basically run it, they do. And we all know it. They own the local Coca Cola bottling company, but caffeine is against the rules. Our downtown area’s streets are literally named after and routed entirely around the temple. As a kid, non-Mormons are the “bad” kids and aren’t allowed at Mormon homes. We know, and we’re very separated.
@@kristazabriskie1250 Utah sounds like hell
@@kristazabriskie1250 omg!
How have I not heard of this channel before??!! I really enjoy learning about cults and whatnot. This is amazing ❤️
Yay Amanda, her channel threw me down the whole rabbit hole of cults. Watching her grow and change has been great
I wish they’d do more seasons of Escaping Polygamy!! That was my favorite show to watch when I was in clean and sober housing!
This is so mind-blowing. Amanda, you are amazing. I can't believe I haven't seen the show. I knew of these various groups that broke away from mainstream LDS and continued polygamy, but I never realized the horrible depths they reached. I probably didn't want to let myself discover these things when I was younger (for example, even the silly reality TV version like Sister Wives was difficult for me to watch).
I am so, so sorry what you had to go through. These incestual relationships made me shiver multiple times. I am happy you're out and talking about it. ❤ stay safe
Surely, there are some damaged children. When I married in the Episcopalian church, we had to sign a paper to swear that we weren't first cousins.
I GASPED. Two powerful warriors fighting for freedom and peace ❤️
😁😎🙌
I was so excited to see this. I love Amanda. I appreciate her honestly so much. She's so knowledgeable, kind, and I love her quirky, sometimes dark humor. Her channel is great. I highly recommend her video on weird foods order members eat. This episode made me so happy.
Yes! I watched that one. So funny 😂
I started asking a lot of questions in church as a teenager. After deciding religion wasn't for me, some family members weren't happy, but eventually accepted my choice.
I cannot even imagine what you went through. Your strength is a testament to your character and I only wish the best for you! Some of the best families are the ones you choose, not always the ones you are born into.
When I worked in the temple, there was a temple worker who refused to let someone enter with an active temple recommend because he had a tattoo and the temple president lost it on that temple worker for being so heartless. The temple matron had a meeting with all of the sisters who were temple workers to tell us that we can’t tolerate that, and should correct the male temple workers who are denying people entry due to tattoos. It was my favorite meeting at the temple worker ever haha
Wowwwww! I’m glad they stood up for that person. Imagine how ashamed he felt for being shamed about that
whaaaaaaat?! thats terrible. He doesn't know that persons story. They could be a convert. They could have been inactive and returned to church. Heck, he could have always been active and gotten a tattoo
@@sherrig7752 that’s exactly what the temple president/matron said. Who cares about a stupid tattoo? It doesn’t determine worthiness
@@Amandaaa2244 Money is money right? 🤑
@@Amandaaa2244and there will born a child with a picture of a lion as it were on his left hand . There talking about visible Judah. He literally has a picture of a lion as it were on his left hand . Judahs Father is Lord Jesus Christ . I think it is in the testament of Joseph or Judah. Came out of his Father's loins . Jesus is God .
Excited for Part 2. This is fascinating and terrifying stuff. She is so strong.
Wooo! Coming Saturday 😁
Thanks for having Amanda on...I was one of the many who requested it. I think you could do multiple videos with her, as she has so much to share.
Yayyyyy!!! I can’t wait to listen to this. I was one of the requesters! I even saw my name in the intro 🤣💗
Haha yessss love it
I am in aw over how intellectual this woman is and how intuitive she is. Such an inspection to people just thinking outside of what they are taught. It is so very hard to put yourself out of everything you have ever known.
Omg, having to write an inventory including your own bed is insane! These little details are mind blowing🤯
I’m so happy, that this interview finally happened and I can’t wait for the next one. This was a really great episode and both of you have so much information to share about all of your experiences. I hope you both have a wonderful weekend and I can’t wait to see your next chapters on both of your channels. Hugs to both of you amazing young women.🤗🤗
Wooo! Thank you! Glad you liked it! More coming soon 😁😁
Marriage to such close relatives, the children could be a lot worse than 12 toes. Are these folks not aware of the danger to the children?
They don't care. Kids are a status symbol. They want women to have lots of kids to expand the church, provide more labor and provide more young girls to marry back into the cult.
The leaders claim there's no issues, but they're now genetically testing kids to see who they can safely marry. But its all "direction from god" of course
They don't care about the danger to the children. It's all about the ego of the man.
At least I’ll never have to deal with it because nobody wants me nobody. And I got the receipts to prove it
@@brianwaller7383 Twitch subscriptions receipts?
Terrible growing up in disfunction and then leaving to see reality of the disfunction. It must have been extremely difficult. I am appalled that this exists. Simply unbelievable. You are helping others as well as yourself 🙏🏻
I requested this!! I’ve requested to watch Amanda on a few different peoples channels! Love her! So much knowledge and so amazing at helping others! So excited to see her here! ❤ 5:35
OMGOSH!!! I watched as many Escaping Polygamy as I could. This is my favorite interview
Wooo! 🥳
What a beautiful woman I’m so glad she got out instead of wasting her life in that revolting cult
The level of control, implied or otherwise in the "regular" LDS church is over the top. I am so sorry for your experience and relieved for you that you figured it out. I was an all in adult covert, age 25 to 65.then ...extracted myself. What a relief. I wish you the best.
I love listening to Amanda because of her honesty … she’s come a long way
This is my new favorite episode!!! Thank you and Amanda for spreading the word and helping as many people as you both can. Two amazing and beautiful people making the world a better place ❤️
Aww thank you so much! ❤️
This was such a great episode. Thank you both!!! Also you guys have SUCH good chemistry!!! Would love to see you guys do something even once a quarter on different topics or to continue raising awareness for holding out help
Thank you!! I would l love to continue to have her on 😁
My great grandmother was one of three Mormon wives and 100% native American. I can't imagine how horrible her life must have been.
Was she part of the fundamentalist groups? Because 19th century plural marriage was different.
@@dobbysboggart6883 No, mainstream Mormon but women were and still are second class in the church and people with dark skin were below that.
@@dobbysboggart6883Different how?
@@alexwyatt2911 ... For starters, in the 19th century, women got married no younger than was typical of the American frontier. And they entered these marriages of their own free choice.
@@dobbysboggart6883 So the polygamist marriages within the Mormon church-especially Joseph Smith and Brigham Young-just didn’t happen?
Im a new watcher and you both seem like extremely strong women. Im glad you escaped your situations.What you are doing is amazingly valuable. Keep up the good work.😊
Thank you so much!! Welcome to C2C!
The fact that she’s almost in tears most of the video. You can hear the pain and heartbreak in her voice! Awww my heart goes to her and everyone who has gone through this form of manipulation and has loved a life of lies!
Woohoo!!! It’s Amanda!!!
Btw, my 26yr old daughter is also Amanda, named after my childhood best friend, two of the most amazing people in the world!! xx
Love it❤
Yall ladies got your emotions in order tbh! I appreciate you educating us and keeping yourself in tact!
So pleased to see Amanda, hope she and all her friends are well
Even leaving an abusive marriage no matter what religion or belief system is super difficult and frightening because where can a woman flee to with her kids! She has to leave the home and then go where? What if she doesn’t have relatives or close friends?
Yeah children are the reason a lot of women stay, especially in these groups where the first wife is also legally tied to him and the fathers are actually on the birth certificates, so can and will fight to keep especially daughters in the group. Increasingly pets are also a concern, especially as most domestic abuse centres won't take pets that aren't service dogs
I was JUST binge watching Amanda’s channel, what a great collaboration.❤
Amazing! Enjoy!😁
This is quickly becoming my new fav UA-cam channel.
Happy to hear that! 😁🙌
I found this channel 3 days ago and can't stop watching.
She is doing such a good job exposing all these cults. This is a very important channel and she is helping so many people and I love it .
My mother isn't allowed to have a relationship with me due to her craazy abusive husband...its only a tiny sliver of what you explained but it hurts so nad. Amanda and everyone who has left are amazingly strong!!!💜💜
I SO enjoyed this interview. Both of you deal with the nitty-gritty in such a classy and intelligent way. Cracked me up when you said "ornery" was a Utah word - I grew up in Texas with family trees in Oklahoma and Louisiana. Very common usage in the South!
This made me thankful that I grew up with a Baptist preacher dad who was very knowledgeable about cults but never used that word, just taught me a few things, beginning with Catholicism. By the time I was a teenager, I kinda felt sorry for the JWs or LDS that showed up at our door - like, are you sure you wanna come in? - not because he would ever berate them but would try his best to show them scriptural truth. I never once heard him put anyone down or say a bad word like we were superior. With him, race, gender, age, religion, money didn't matter.
I wanted to see Amanda on here ❤🎉 i loved this interview, i can't wait for part 2
Wooo! Coming on Saturday!
@@CultstoConsciousness I love Amanda I have watched all her videos and subscribe to her patreon and I have been listening and watching your videos for ages so love the both together 🥰
26:15 Holy crap, that is a crazy statistic! I’m somewhere into the double digits of places where I’ve lived, even in multiple countries.
I have a dear friend, a gay man, who grew up in a strict catholic household and was forced to go to a conversion therapy camp in his teens/20’s and he dealt with so much pain and internal torture from the whole experience… he felt forced to live a lie, believing he was going to rot in hell because he was broken and not good enough to make it to Heaven, seeing close friends of his taking their own lives.. caused a lot of damage in him. It’s heartbreaking stuff, does wayyy more harm than good. Thank God, thru time and lots and lots of therapy, he got away from all that and is living his best life, as 💯 his authentic self, happily with his life partner of 25+ years.. (and has a beautiful relationship with God even), so I couldn’t be more happy for him! Not everyone’s story has a happy ending though:( those kinds of programs should be illegal imo
Wow! That’s so awful what he went through. I’m so happy that he is doing better now!
@@CultstoConsciousnessme too:) thanks Shelise! Love your show 🫶🏻
So heartbreaking. I'm glad he's doing well now!
I've been waiting for this!! I've been following Amanda’s channel for months - it's wonderful to hear her share her story on someone else’s show. Amanda, you're amazing!!! ❤️
I totally agree!
both of you ladies are so intelligent, eloquent, classy; all of the lovely things. thank you so much for sharing your stories with us.
Thank you so much!🥰
I loved this!! I loved Amanda’s show, “Escaping Poligamy”, and I love all that y’all are doing to help those who are trapped in these cults!
Thank you!
I didn't request it oh here but I requested on mormon stories that amanda and ezkel be interviewed, ezkel is active in the main steam lds church. I'm really excited for this interview.
Oh he is?! Very interesting! We will reach out to him
So excited to have my question answered! And thank you so much for pronouncing my name correctly 😊
Wooo! So glad I did 😁 thanks for engaging!
I adore Amanda. I've watch every one of her videos. And also subbed to her brother. 😊❤
Amanda is so cool! The strength and resilience of these women is incredible.
That was the fastest hour, it just zipped on by! I could listen to you guys talking for hours and hours! 💞😇
I know I’ve suggested it before, but are there any updates on maybe interviewing Sam and Melissa from @GrowingUpInPolygamy? 🤗
Coming tomorrow! 😁
@@CultstoConsciousness Omg! I can’t wait!! 🤩😍
Amanda I definitely heard an accent when you started speaking! I don't think it's a Utah accent but what do I know. Thank you so much for sharing you are so fun to listen to!!!
you could actually give seminars to local police. you could train the cops on how to pick up and help escapees in plain clothes or whatever. maybe they could help you form committees to network around FLDS areas so everyone is covered if they chose to leave.
That is brilliant! Great idea!
@@CultstoConsciousness i hope it helps. i live in Aroostook county, Maine and we are increasingly surrounded by Amish farms and businesses. it is usually very nice and an enhancement of our own farming community BUT their ethics run undetected and it is almost impossible to reach out. none of their kids have medical because they do not believe in insurance although they could buy a group policy and cover everyone. one child recently got a deformed leg simply because he broke his leg without any modern medical care. one man DIED from an infected tooth. you see?
I feel so validated listening to Amanda’s story along with each person’s story. Stay strong Amanda and keep telling your story! 💪🏽🙏❤️
Five minutes into the interview and I literally have no idea who is whose sister, father, uncle, half brother etc any more.
Same 🥲🫠
I was also confused... that's a family wheel
I was so confused too, lol
I was so interested in her take on the show sister wives , would love to hear more on the show
Idk how to describe the sense of empowered communion this discussion offers. Thank you ❤
I love that! Thank you 😁❤️
Shelise, just finding your channel. Love it, except...your opening is so happy, upbeat, fun, you are happy and smiling almost laughing, then you go right into these serious subjects...talk about triggering. Your channel is so important but a little seriousness leading in would be appropriate. But the end, definitely a place to be happy and rejoice. Love the Linda!!
Hi! I appreciate the feedback. I do feel it’s ok have levity in the beginning. Mostly because it helps the guest settle in and feel more comfortable. I let them take the lead when it comes to how serious they want to get and how fast. Aside from one phone call we are complete strangers. Also, I feel opening with a smile can be disarming as a therapist might be initially. Lastly, I usually banter with the guest 10-20 mins before and I keep it light to help them feel less nervous. I think if I were to immediately go into a somber mode, it would feel unnatural and they would feel uncomfortable. Lots to think about, but I do appreciate the concerns
Love Amanda's channel so I'm so happy to see her on this channel too!
Same same! 😁
When we moved to Utah, we were a few blocks from one of the Kingston groups of housing. (I recognized where Shanell's mom lived as something right down the street) It just looked extremely run down and very sparse with people, even though there were kids toys all over the yards. At one point, one of the barns burned down and our neighborhood was like "hey, we should put some stuff together and take it to them". One of the neighbors said "don't bother, they won't talk to you or accept it". And they didnt. It was like the person who took it to them was some kind of monster. They wanted absolutely nothing to do with the outside public.
I remember watching her on Escaping Polygamy that was such a great show!
Oh my! I just found out you are from Tremonton! I am from Logan. How very weird that all these people from "Down State" seem to be from "Somewhere Else." That is convenient isn't it?
My friend, raised strict 7th Day Adventist (also a cult!), was always "encouraged" by his mom to keep going to church when he became an adult. He didn't but he told her once that he was going to Mormon services and she was appalled.😂
I use to drive by a few Kingston homes everyday on my way to work (the homes were just down the street). The houses are very run down and dirty. It was so sad to see the conditions they live in both on the show and in the real world.
I am huge fan of “ escaping Polygamy “ show so excited about this interview ❤❤❤
Wooo!🥳
I’m playing catch up on your videos and I find this lovely ray of sunshine Amanda ☀️ I’m going straight to part 2 to hear more of her courageous journey ❤️
The part where she is able to identify ‘one of her own’ in Vegas or at the gym is interesting 🧐 When you are in something so removed from regular society, it’s us vs them. Great guest, she seems like such a cool person ❤
Yeah! Wild. Amanda is so awesome
God Bless you young ladies for getting the truth out about these cults and the destruction they are doing to so many children.
Omg TREMONTON.. Shelise 😂❤ I'm from there!!! I'm sure we didn't cross paths because I'm Hella old.... But.. maybe it's time for my story as a believing Mormon for 63 years.... But now I'm out!!!!! Divorced, and have a boyfriend and happily drinking coffee and wine, life is amazing. It might be time for an older white post morm woman... L0L let's talk. 🎉🎉🎉😂😂😂❤❤❤ Love your channel
😂 are you really? You may know my mom. She’s your age. You can reach out on IG @cultstoconsciousness
I watched every episode of Escaping Ploygamy. Such courage and vision.
The more I listen to these the more I realize I grew up in like a "familial cult" idk if that's a thing but all these experiences really remind me of my childhood 🤔
Shelise on the show escaping polygymy, there was a lady who had like $20,000 in her acct from a car accident settlement. When she tried to leave, the (kingston)bank said they coukdnt give it all to her cuz they didnt have it. I think they only gave her like $5,000. Then they called all sorts of members to tell she was trying to leave!! 9:49
Noooo!
@@CultstoConsciousness yup! I could be off a bit on the amounts, but it was insane!!
Both of you gals are exceptionally lovely. I’m so glad you two escaped that restrictive environment. I’m sure they had nefarious plans for you . When I traveled through Utah I felt that everyone was phony. They seemed to have that “keep sweet” mentality that creeped me out. I mentioned that in a comment and was trolled about it. I still maintain that it was a “Stepford Wives” vibe there.
Aww thank you, Kathleen! Yes, the “keep sweet” vibe very much exists. I’d say more in the FLDS than the mainstream LDS, but it all stems from the same place. The incessant urge to be perfect and make it look like your life is perfect. Because happiness is only achieved through worthiness…so if you aren’t happy, then you’re doing something wrong. It creates a lot of toxic positivity and bypassing.
I agree...both pretty and both smart. Can't understand how women can stand living like that. I watched the "Sister Wives" show from the beginning, but could see jealousy between women early on. Took 10 years for the split to occur. Cody was always a narcicistic jerk❗
The dad marrying ur half sister ... Of their 8 kids, were all normal or were some genetically altered?
@@CultstoConsciousness ... We LDS try to be decent folks. Fight against the FLDS and Kingston group all you want, but don't drag US into your crosshairs. ua-cam.com/video/IzLWFWiIUng/v-deo.html
If you were driving through northern Utah, maybe it was all in your head.
Great interview. I've now watched every episode. ❤
In this, when discussing spotting members via a carriage/walk. I understand completely. Some of my personal traumas have left me ultra sensitive to other predators. That sounds a bit savage, but that's the truth of it.
Thank you so much for your support!!
I'm not in a polygamous relationship right now, but I'm atheist and was in an independent polygamous relationship before the difference being: I (f) was openly bisexual and the driving force. All three of us started out as friends first and grew closer in a triangle and had a sit-down and decided together to be in a relationship with both other parties simultaneously... but yeah - I guess that's not very common.
That’s very mature of all of you. And I fully respect people who are in consenting (not coerced) relationships with other adults 😁
Eh, it's actually pretty common
Ibapah! I can’t believe there’s order members there!! My little brother was from the Goshute Tribe. That’s their town. It’s so tiny-tiny.
Crazy! I’m shocked.
On the other hand, I’ve been waiting for you to interview Amanda Rae!
😬❤️❤️❤️
I love Amanda!!! Thank you!!!
Edit: SHE PUT MY COMMENT YES HAHAHA
I was also oddly thrilled by seeing my comment.😂
Hahah I love it!
Love you guys!
Onry aka "ornery" was a word my mom from rural Missouri used.
My cousin who was born in OK uses it all the time and I never knew where it came from.
My coworker from a small rural town in California said "onry." I knew she meant "ornery" from the context, but I'd never heard it said that way before!
Haha did she pronounce it like us Utahns? 😂 imagine my surprise when I tried to text it for the first time like awnry or honry and autocorrect was like “girl, what?”🧐
@@CultstoConsciousnessit depended... Sometimes it was "on-ree" & other times "orn-ree"
I love Amanda!! She is amazing. ❤
I've been waiting for this! I'm so excited!
🥳
I live in an area in Utah that has part of the Kingstons live. Super secretive, they ran in packs basically. I was always curious about them.
You Ladies are so terrific. Thank you for the help you are you giving.
"You can be gay, you just can´t be gay" 🤣🤣🤣🤣 Great episode 🤟
Hhuumm listening to this I’m completely understanding why that show sister wives worked out the way it did. Kody Brown may say he’s not FLDS but he’s everything you just described.