I never understood why people buy luxury priced vehicles and then complain about having to use premium gas...what did you expect out of a $60K plus, new, vehicle? The difference in price is about $3-7 dollars per tankful on average...if you're really complaining about an extra $40 a month you probably shouldn't have bought a luxury/semi-luxury level vehicle
If you want the engine/turbo to last as long as possible, you should use top tier premium fuel. Stop listening to just the manufacturers, because they want to sell vehicles, and people may not buy if they need to use premium fuel. Listen to the mechanics that work on these modern engines. Blown head gaskets from detonation is a problem. For example, a Honda engine may say 87, while the same exact/tuned engine in an Acura will say 91. This refers to civic si/integra. People seem to use the cheapest fuel possible, after spending all this money on these vehicles. Optimal also means longevity
Ok…. I do want to know…. What do the Tacomas with the Hybrid recommend?? And why would it be different since the output is the same for both vehicles. ??????????
Difference between recommended vs required. 🤘. But I side with the folks who follow all recommendations. As for the longevity of the engine from engine compression to burn rate and buildup over time using lower octane ratings.. I’ll pay the fee extra bucks per tank👍
I drive an Ecoboost which recommended running premium,93 octane....BUT, every time I run 93,my truck runs like crap...reason why? Because NOBODY is purchasing 93 anymore due to cost.....so,at the end,when you're paying 4.50 a gallon, you're just getting stale fuel that's worse for an engine...I switch back to 87,reset my adaptive fuel tables and my engine runs good again .. I've also taken fuel samples from different stations and not one station had fresh 93oct...as mentioned,when 87 is @ 3.35 a gallon and 93 is @ 4.40 a gallon,which fuel do you think most people are going to purchase in today's screwed up economy...I know my engine would probably run great on FRESH 93,but good luck finding it....(25yr ASE Master tech here)
Sure are a lot of gas experts in the comments here. I've had this question about premium and this is the most cut and dry proof that it is not 'required'. Seems the rest of the internet thinks it's required or the engine will blow up. So thanks @TRDJon! And yeah, if I was going on a long highway trip, I'd throw in regular without hesitation.
Premium fuel is a waste of money unless you have a higher compression engine or one tuned in such a way that it matters. You may run into pinging issues otherwise.
Yeah, it says it that way in case you can't get premium. It's not good for it to not get premium. It has to really retard the timing and not burn cleanly do to the combustion chamber pressure. Just put premium in dude.
The vehicles computer can vary engine timing and boost to curb detonation caused by lower fuel quality. This comes at the expense of some power. However any gain in MPG from higher octane fuel is negated by the cost since it doesn't cover the difference. I'd use premium when towing or if heading to higher altitudes.
"Premium unleaded gasoline with an octane rating of 91 or higher required for optimum engine performance" when manufacturers refer to engine performance they do not just refer to power output but also longevity of said engine, thus putting lower octane fuel in an engine which explicitly states it requires 91 will harm the engine.
turbo engines require premium (high octane) because it helps with hit that horsepower smoothly. They are “tuned” with that specific octane to prevent engine knock, loss of acceleration. You can always put regular gas in it, it will still run smooth. But on sport cars, there’s a bigger risk of damaging your engines because in sports cars you enjoy giving it a full throttle.
After my experience with sports car and tunning, yes 92-93 all the way. Even Magnuson said I’d have to use only 93 if I put their SC on. I wouldn’t risk it just put in 93. Hell I drive to Panama City beach just to fill my 50gal drum of e85 for my RS 😂
@@providentpathfinders219 a quick google search will show u all ecoboost motors require 91+ octane. However when you want the full potential of a sports car or truck that’s using a good percentage of the motor power. I would do what is required by the manufacture
If it's a turbo di engine, it should be top tier premium. Listen to mechanics and not manufacturers/sales people. How many people will buy these vehicles if they are told they need to purchase premium fuel. This is the problem with all new vehicles being turbocharged and direct injected
I used to have a Ram 1500 5.7 and it said it recommended mid grade but would be fine with 87. It threw up a check engine light as soon as I put 87 in it. Never did it again. I bought it used, so I’m sure the higher mileage was a possible cause.
I only run 91 octane top tier fuel in my vehicles, had to many O2 Sensor issues running the lower octane fuel. No more issues, original muffler, exhaust, and Cat. at 654,000 kilometers.😊
I’ve often heard that even for vehicles that say premium only that you can use standard, but I’ve been told whatever you do you should stick to that for the life of the vehicle.
Might be slightly off topic...but when I'm on a road trip .I'll go up a grade or 2 at the pump and usually notice better milage... Soni kinda pays for itself.. Just me ?? Anyone else?.
Yes sir and the manual also says under severe operating conditions to change oil every 5000 miles and if you read on that as detailed as you do on gasoline you find that is most peoples average driving conditions. Most do not drive constantly on the highway yet you feel it’s proper to do 10,000 miles. Again Jon you are an influencer in what you’re trying to propel here upon your viewers I don’t understand let’s take optimal care of our vehicles and not stress them.
I read the manual for the oil change man. I few within the 10K and also the 5K i guess. Which is why I had the oil checked at 5K miles and the dealer noted it was good and could go till 10K as I've stated in multiple videos.
@@TRDJon The dealer is told to say that Jon…. May I politely encourage you to watch some of the videos from the Lubricant engineer Lake, with detailed breakdowns that does take some cognitive effort and time to absorb over at the Oil Geek channel. Hard data… Incontrovertible evidence is that indeed parlay into the proper idiom the good information leads to cogent decisions
The dealer is told to say that? By who? Toyota? So then if Toyota has a crap ton of vehicles fail low mileage they would be in amazing business standings still? No…they wouldn’t so why would they sabatoge themselves
It is rated for 91, and although going lower wont necessarily damage the engine in the short run, it will cause excessive wear in the long run because as the timing belt and the injectors are mapped with 91 Octane in mind, it will let in less oxygen assuming the fuel will supplement the rest. this will lead to the engine running rich.
Using premium gas doesn’t make your car more efficient ect. It’s for knock which is basically fuel combusting when it’s not supposed to. Knock can destroy your engine but it usually doesn’t matter unless you have a car with a turbocharger or supercharger
Nope, not BINGO. It has to do with the engine’s compression ratio. The octane in unleaded automotive gasoline has nothing to do with fuel economy. Higher octane fuels are less prone to cylinder detonation. Detonation in a reciprocating is harmful. It can happen when the cylinder pressure/temperature is high. It leads to the fuel self-igniting(detonation) and causes knock. You would probably never notice it in a modern car because the ECM would retard ignition or change valve timing if possible. This is why GA aircraft use AvGas, which is leaded 100 octane fuel. The engines are typically air cooled and detonation at altitude can kill. Anyway, basically you’re getting shit engine performance. You can probably maintain a descent fuel economy as long as you hyper-mile and baby the accelerator. It’s all about the engine design.
For most vehicles produced over the past 8 to 10 years, the ECU will adjust the engine performance based on the feedback from the sensors when using different grades of fuel, however you are far more likely to experience performance issues when using lesser octane fuel in vehicles that *require* high octane (91+) fuel. The language to look for in the owner’s manual is “recommended” vs “required”.
Wrong. I guess you should also do what it states in the owners manual and do 10k oil changes. They only want these vehicles to make it through the warranty period. Detonation causes head gasket failure
I guess 89 is the right answer. It isn't much more expensive than 87 and 91 and 93 are just much more costly but will offer unnoticable changes compared to 89.
I personally think you're nuts. Octane is a temperature rating where the fuel ignites. Imagine the piston coming down to full stroke BUT before it gets there, the fuel ignites while the piston is still coming down. How hard is that on an engine? Yes, the cpu can adjust timing to offset this but the cpu is trying to trick the engine to help with elevations and such. Why risk having a cpu need to adjust. Just run the correct octane for the engine design. As others have pointed out, you spend $60-70k on a new vehicle and then complain about fuel cost. Imagine going to the doctor because you had your thyroid taken out and the Dr says take 100mg of thyroid meds for optimum performance and you say, no, I will take 70mg because it's cheaper. You will probably make it through life for awhile but your body and health will suffer the consequences. You would never do that. The difference is you can ruin this great truck and trade it in so it is someone else's problem.
@@TRDJonI believe there are a few notices but one specifically calls out a notice for unleaded gasoline which was separate to the notice or above cautions over gasohol.
You don't specify what Landcruiser you purchased...Is this the new turbo charged hybrid? If so, you should really use higher octane fuel since turbo charged engines achieve "high compression" and you need the higher octane to protect from potential detonation. Your comments about getting more power and torque from higher octane is completely inaccurate. Octane rating does not affect power or torque. It just improves combustion.
@@ryanlolliliterally he has said it in a lot of his videos before and in this case he would explain how using 87 in a care that recommended 91 for optimal usage would cause premature wear of the valves and need premature adjustments due to the wear and valve lash caused by it..
I would feed it premium in the hot summer months, but regular in the winter or cooler months. However if you hear any sort of pre ignition, you should use premium.
You should at some point clarify for the audience that octane rating has nothing to do with power output (technically). The octane rating just changes the pressure at which gasoline spontaneously combusts. If you lower the octane rating, you are increasing the likelihood that combustion occurs before the spark plug goes off. That’s the danger. Fuel efficiency won’t change, power won’t change meaningfully, it’s just a little harder on the engine when it’s running hot and you have the turbos pumping air into the chambers at high pressure.
Are you aware that the exact same engine with same specs is used in the Grand Highlander but only specifies 87 octane? It's the reason why Jon and the rest of us are confused by the manual specifying a higher octane.
@TRDJon 102,095 Toyota recalls as of May New numbers are much more,95,850 production numbers tells you what the future holds for us Toyota owners LX 600 are at 3,524😢 Google is your friend 🤷🏾♀️
On the otherhand the tacoma hyrbid says use 87 octane😂 same engine minus the fulltime 4wd. Anybody knows full-time 4wd you lose more horsepower to the wheels due to drivetrain loss of the 4 driven wheels. The premium gas just makes up that power loss in the landcruiser.
@@TRDJon toyota and lexus has always had this relationship when it comes to the shared engines. Lexus wants to be more premium feeling so they want their vehicles to run premium gas. The effect is a smoother engine operation which makes the lexus product feel that more refined. The landcruiser running premium sets it apart from the 4runner which I bet will run regular. I'm convinced this marketing strategy. This debate has been going on for years.
You should absolutely use premium in a turbo charged engine optimized for premium fuel. You will not just get less out of your engine by using regular, you will wear the engine excessively. The price you pay will only be visible after years of use, but then you’ll probably blame Toyota instead of yourself. You do you 🤷♂️
Those engines won’t last long enough for it to be a concern lol. I actually have no idea but I was always told if it was a turbo engine, premium was best.
So. Did you get any knock? What is the mpg after the full tank on that regular unleaded? Did it drop the roughly lower same % as the cost savings%? Does it really save you if you get lower mpg? I got noticeable lower mpg in lexus rx450h before i sold that..
Yes if it’s recommending it for optimal use that means to use it just like if you chose to use 87 you’ll get valve lash which leads to premature wear and adjustments of valves… I bought my 1998 Lexus from the original owner he used 87 octane it’s whole life 150k miles I’ve started using 93 since I bought it in Jan 6k miles ago it’s caused premature wear and they need to be adjusted bc of it is it required technicality no bc it’ll run without it but it will do more long term harm than good by doing so and using 87….
I would see what Care Care Nut says as he has stated that if a toyota engine is tuned for premium really must put that top end stuff in. Example is the Grand Highlander turbo 4 does not require premium but my wife's Lexus TX is the same engine but tuned for more power so it requires the premium. Regular for my 22 tundra though!
Tuned for more power is the same as tuned for less with a lower grade gas. Listen to what you are saying. Put premium in the grand highlander and it will produce the same as the TX. Same engine and computer adjusting for grade of gas. That is all
How about octane above 87 and below 91. I agree You should NOT put 87 in there and no it’s not just getting max efficiency. I think it’ll damage the engine long term.
Gas stations don't work like that unless it's a small mom and pop store. Branded stores such as chevron, pure, bp, etc require their own branded fuel that has unique additives for each company. Mom and pop stores or stores that aren't a major brand can broker fuel through any company and supplier.
@@theoriginalerk you don’t have a clue. Whoever the nearest refinery is, is making all the fuel for all the gas stations. I literally make fuel for a living
@TRDJon a vehicle TUNED for high octane will pull ignition timings to prevent knock. This lowers HP. You might get the same mpg but the vehicle will be slightly more sluggish (noticeable if you do lower octane for a few tanks then go back up). I hope for your audience purposes, you actually do multiple tanks of 87, then go back up to 91/93 and see if you notice the performance difference after another few tanks... multiple tanks are needed unless you drain the tank and fuel line since fuel mixing is a factor. But since this is anecdotal experimentation, thats not realistic to do. however if the vehicle is tuned for 87, putting in higher octane does nothing, may even promote carbon build up due to unburnt fuel since there is nothing in the ECU to advance the timing to take advantage of the higher octane. Street and Race tuners have already gone down these rabbit holes which is why such vehicles get tuned for 93, e85 and race gas(100-120 octane)
What’s your take on it the preferred gas for a 2020 4 Runner off-road? I’ve been using 87 most of the time because California gas prices are over five dollars a gallon, but do you notice any difference on premium gas when you had your forerunner?
That’s almost hundred thousand dollar SUV. Why would you go cheap on gas? That does not make sense. Turbo’s NEED 91 or higher to prevent it from damage….
If it “NEEDS” (and by “ needs” I’m assuming you mean “requires”) it would specifically state in the owners manual that that fuel is absolutely required for operation. There’s literally nothing there that says it “requires“ premium fuel .
@@Treetopflyer777 to be fair though it does say using less than the specified octane in the OM may result in “persistent heavy knocking”. It may not be “required” but I think I’d prefer not to have any persistent heavy knocking coming from my engine. It is the same output as the Tacoma hybrid which only specifies 87 so maybe it’s a nonissue, though I like to have my engine run optimally and get all the performance I purchased (would probably even run 91+ in a Tacoma if I had that).
But your manual doesn't say you can use a lower grade. For example, the manual for my camry says to use 0W-16. It also says that I can use 0W-20 but to put 0W-16 back in on the next oil change. Your manual doesn't say specifically that you can use 87. But it does specifically say to use 91 or higher and the fuel door says premium ONLY. Yes the tacoma has the same output as the land cruiser and uses 87. But maybe its tuned differently. Maybe the engine produces less power and the electric motor assists more in the tacoma. No idea as I'm not a engineer for them, but there has to be a reason why toyota put a premium only sticker on the door. Toyota is smart enough to know that making a vehicle premium only would be a turn off to some people.
Don't forget to follow their recommendations and do your oil changes at 10k lol. Ask your Toyota dealership to do them at 5k and see if they will pay under the included free 24 month maintenance. They will not. You can't trust the manufacturer to give you correct maintenance info. They want low cost of ownership stats while the vehicle is under warranty
Hybrid is worse 😢 Toyota reliability is doomed 😮 sad to see , I owned new Toyotas 1986 and so sad to see , I had to go with the Lexus over the land cruiser as I always done because Lexus didn't go Hybrid to save their reliability reputation
@@TRDJon GX is all good minus a recall or ywo ,but our tundra is at local toyota dealership waiting on new engine due to bearing issue recall , dealership has advised me of over a hundred thousand recalls and more to come , So it will be some time for the engine swap 🤦🏿♀️(no loaner)this is were the argument becomes about reliability should always be first even over efficiency 🙆🏽♀️ all these engines ending up in landfills and producing all these new replacement engine doesn't sound so green and will impact the environment adversely 🤷🏾♀️ not to mention Toyotas sales 😥
There definitely haven’t been 100 recalls on the truck. That dealer doesn’t sound the best. Because all dealers I’ve seen online on FB when people post about it have been given loaners.
It s such a dumb truck. Whom ever buys the new Tacoma knows nothing about engines or transmissions. The new 2024 Toyota Tacomas are hot garbage. Now, you have to use premium gas to get the maximum performance and horsepower?!?! What’s joke. This is a toyota tool-bag folks.
So use 91 if you want the vehicle to work as advertised.
I never understood why people buy luxury priced vehicles and then complain about having to use premium gas...what did you expect out of a $60K plus, new, vehicle? The difference in price is about $3-7 dollars per tankful on average...if you're really complaining about an extra $40 a month you probably shouldn't have bought a luxury/semi-luxury level vehicle
Thats not the point of the video.
Exactly. See it all the time at gas stations. It’s even funnier when it says it right on the fuel door and they still pumping 87.
You are an airhead stop commenting on videos
The small “savings” in using 87 isn’t worth engine damage & reduced reliability down the line imo. Spend another 3 bucks and save your motor.
How the fuck you got 70k plus for a new LandCruiser but not the extra 30-40 cents per gallon of gas. Your right per the manual but like wtf.
Not the point of the video
@@TRDJon such a bitter man lol
If you want the engine/turbo to last as long as possible, you should use top tier premium fuel. Stop listening to just the manufacturers, because they want to sell vehicles, and people may not buy if they need to use premium fuel. Listen to the mechanics that work on these modern engines. Blown head gaskets from detonation is a problem. For example, a Honda engine may say 87, while the same exact/tuned engine in an Acura will say 91. This refers to civic si/integra. People seem to use the cheapest fuel possible, after spending all this money on these vehicles. Optimal also means longevity
It just slows the acceleration down but its always smart to follow manufacturer suggestion.
Ok…. I do want to know…. What do the Tacomas with the Hybrid recommend?? And why would it be different since the output is the same for both vehicles. ??????????
Difference between recommended vs required. 🤘. But I side with the folks who follow all recommendations. As for the longevity of the engine from engine compression to burn rate and buildup over time using lower octane ratings.. I’ll pay the fee extra bucks per tank👍
I drive an Ecoboost which recommended running premium,93 octane....BUT, every time I run 93,my truck runs like crap...reason why? Because NOBODY is purchasing 93 anymore due to cost.....so,at the end,when you're paying 4.50 a gallon, you're just getting stale fuel that's worse for an engine...I switch back to 87,reset my adaptive fuel tables and my engine runs good again .. I've also taken fuel samples from different stations and not one station had fresh 93oct...as mentioned,when 87 is @ 3.35 a gallon and 93 is @ 4.40 a gallon,which fuel do you think most people are going to purchase in today's screwed up economy...I know my engine would probably run great on FRESH 93,but good luck finding it....(25yr ASE Master tech here)
Use Amsoil Octane boost to help. It had Naptha not alcohol. I know it works because my father made Naptha for 35 years at Amoco.
Sure are a lot of gas experts in the comments here. I've had this question about premium and this is the most cut and dry proof that it is not 'required'. Seems the rest of the internet thinks it's required or the engine will blow up. So thanks @TRDJon!
And yeah, if I was going on a long highway trip, I'd throw in regular without hesitation.
Love my F150 5.0 that calls for regular gas.
I have a 13 coyote also our ignition will adjust timing I'm not sure about older Toyotas my car makes 405 HP on 87 420 on 93.
@TRDJon sounds like Toyota just drop the ball for the efficiency craze and lost their reliability 😢 standards 😢
Premium fuel is a waste of money unless you have a higher compression engine or one tuned in such a way that it matters. You may run into pinging issues otherwise.
That's what's happening the turbo in the engine wants better ignition than 87 octane Today the car Co is screwing us again
Yeah, it says it that way in case you can't get premium. It's not good for it to not get premium. It has to really retard the timing and not burn cleanly do to the combustion chamber pressure. Just put premium in dude.
The vehicles computer can vary engine timing and boost to curb detonation caused by lower fuel quality. This comes at the expense of some power. However any gain in MPG from higher octane fuel is negated by the cost since it doesn't cover the difference. I'd use premium when towing or if heading to higher altitudes.
Higher altitudes equals less cylinder pressures and less octane required.
"Premium unleaded gasoline with an octane rating of 91 or higher required for optimum engine performance" when manufacturers refer to engine performance they do not just refer to power output but also longevity of said engine, thus putting lower octane fuel in an engine which explicitly states it requires 91 will harm the engine.
Nah. Putting said lower octane fuel in it will do absolutely no harm to said engine.
@@Beef5Wrong. It will increase the risk of knock and early detenation.
@DragonKnightX12 wrong. It will run with slightly less hp. Now you are informed.
Any modern v8 definitely needs premium or mid grade. Cars don’t.
So far so good Jon using Regular unleaded! I like it! Thanks! Jim
You bet!
turbo engines require premium (high octane) because it helps with hit that horsepower smoothly. They are “tuned” with that specific octane to prevent engine knock, loss of acceleration.
You can always put regular gas in it, it will still run smooth.
But on sport cars, there’s a bigger risk of damaging your engines because in sports cars you enjoy giving it a full throttle.
The Tacoma version of this which has the same output numbers does not require premium
After my experience with sports car and tunning, yes 92-93 all the way. Even Magnuson said I’d have to use only 93 if I put their SC on. I wouldn’t risk it just put in 93. Hell I drive to Panama City beach just to fill my 50gal drum of e85 for my RS 😂
show me an ecoboost outside of maybe the Raptor that “requires” premium.
@@providentpathfinders219 a quick google search will show u all ecoboost motors require 91+ octane. However when you want the full potential of a sports car or truck that’s using a good percentage of the motor power. I would do what is required by the manufacture
If it's a turbo di engine, it should be top tier premium. Listen to mechanics and not manufacturers/sales people. How many people will buy these vehicles if they are told they need to purchase premium fuel. This is the problem with all new vehicles being turbocharged and direct injected
I used to have a Ram 1500 5.7 and it said it recommended mid grade but would be fine with 87. It threw up a check engine light as soon as I put 87 in it. Never did it again. I bought it used, so I’m sure the higher mileage was a possible cause.
I only run 91 octane top tier fuel in my vehicles, had to many O2 Sensor issues running the lower octane fuel. No more issues, original muffler, exhaust, and Cat. at 654,000 kilometers.😊
I’ve often heard that even for vehicles that say premium only that you can use standard, but I’ve been told whatever you do you should stick to that for the life of the vehicle.
Here is a guy that will be surprised when the engine fail before he expected it.
Here’s a guy that doesn’t understand modern ECUs
All fun and games until Toyota denies your warranty claim due to not using the fuel advised per the manual
The manual says recommend not required. So I am.
Might be slightly off topic...but when I'm on a road trip .I'll go up a grade or 2 at the pump and usually notice better milage... Soni kinda pays for itself..
Just me ?? Anyone else?.
Yes sir and the manual also says under severe operating conditions to change oil every 5000 miles and if you read on that as detailed as you do on gasoline you find that is most peoples average driving conditions. Most do not drive constantly on the highway yet you feel it’s proper to do 10,000 miles. Again Jon you are an influencer in what you’re trying to propel here upon your viewers I don’t understand let’s take optimal care of our vehicles and not stress them.
I read the manual for the oil change man. I few within the 10K and also the 5K i guess. Which is why I had the oil checked at 5K miles and the dealer noted it was good and could go till 10K as I've stated in multiple videos.
@@TRDJon The dealer is told to say that Jon…. May I politely encourage you to watch some of the videos from the Lubricant engineer Lake, with detailed breakdowns that does take some cognitive effort and time to absorb over at the Oil Geek channel. Hard data… Incontrovertible evidence is that indeed parlay into the proper idiom the good information leads to cogent decisions
The dealer is told to say that? By who? Toyota? So then if Toyota has a crap ton of vehicles fail low mileage they would be in amazing business standings still? No…they wouldn’t so why would they sabatoge themselves
It is rated for 91, and although going lower wont necessarily damage the engine in the short run, it will cause excessive wear in the long run because as the timing belt and the injectors are mapped with 91 Octane in mind, it will let in less oxygen assuming the fuel will supplement the rest. this will lead to the engine running rich.
Gone are the simple computer controlled fuel injection. The computers these day are way smarter and adjust timing with all varying conditions.
Your spark plugs will foul considerably faster, maybe not as much with a hybrid, but that and carbon build up on the lifters.
I use 91 in my 4th gen taco. Definitely noticeable MPG and performance.
Using premium gas doesn’t make your car more efficient ect. It’s for knock which is basically fuel combusting when it’s not supposed to. Knock can destroy your engine but it usually doesn’t matter unless you have a car with a turbocharger or supercharger
Isn’t this turbo charged engine?
Yes
They could have made this similar to the rav4 prime…but it wouldn’t tow as much.
I wouldn’t want to put a rav4 hybrid in the Land Cruiser.
The new Landcruiser has a 4 cylinder engine. Total shame
Ok but WHY does this vehicle need it and the Tacoma doesn’t?….thats the question here. It’s got to be simply fuel economy
BINGO
Nope, not BINGO. It has to do with the engine’s compression ratio. The octane in unleaded automotive gasoline has nothing to do with fuel economy. Higher octane fuels are less prone to cylinder detonation. Detonation in a reciprocating is harmful. It can happen when the cylinder pressure/temperature is high. It leads to the fuel self-igniting(detonation) and causes knock. You would probably never notice it in a modern car because the ECM would retard ignition or change valve timing if possible. This is why GA aircraft use AvGas, which is leaded 100 octane fuel. The engines are typically air cooled and detonation at altitude can kill. Anyway, basically you’re getting shit engine performance. You can probably maintain a descent fuel economy as long as you hyper-mile and baby the accelerator. It’s all about the engine design.
Reason is perhaps the tuning.
For most vehicles produced over the past 8 to 10 years, the ECU will adjust the engine performance based on the feedback from the sensors when using different grades of fuel, however you are far more likely to experience performance issues when using lesser octane fuel in vehicles that *require* high octane (91+) fuel.
The language to look for in the owner’s manual is “recommended” vs “required”.
Wrong. I guess you should also do what it states in the owners manual and do 10k oil changes. They only want these vehicles to make it through the warranty period. Detonation causes head gasket failure
I guess 89 is the right answer. It isn't much more expensive than 87 and 91 and 93 are just much more costly but will offer unnoticable changes compared to 89.
I personally think you're nuts. Octane is a temperature rating where the fuel ignites. Imagine the piston coming down to full stroke BUT before it gets there, the fuel ignites while the piston is still coming down. How hard is that on an engine? Yes, the cpu can adjust timing to offset this but the cpu is trying to trick the engine to help with elevations and such. Why risk having a cpu need to adjust. Just run the correct octane for the engine design. As others have pointed out, you spend $60-70k on a new vehicle and then complain about fuel cost. Imagine going to the doctor because you had your thyroid taken out and the Dr says take 100mg of thyroid meds for optimum performance and you say, no, I will take 70mg because it's cheaper. You will probably make it through life for awhile but your body and health will suffer the consequences. You would never do that. The difference is you can ruin this great truck and trade it in so it is someone else's problem.
Did you find the Fuel Notice on the next page of that manual talking about potential engine knock by using less than 91?
I read that. But that was referring to gashol and bad fuel and to change fuel stations. At least that’s how I interpreted that
@@TRDJonI believe there are a few notices but one specifically calls out a notice for unleaded gasoline which was separate to the notice or above cautions over gasohol.
Sounds like regular unleaded is good for most situations for the LC that's great news!!!
Those people are unhinged motors 😉
You don't specify what Landcruiser you purchased...Is this the new turbo charged hybrid? If so, you should really use higher octane fuel since turbo charged engines achieve "high compression" and you need the higher octane to protect from potential detonation.
Your comments about getting more power and torque from higher octane is completely inaccurate. Octane rating does not affect power or torque. It just improves combustion.
That’s the only Land Cruiser the USA gets. No need to specify
Id want to hear the Car Care Nut’s opinion on this.
Would be a solid video deep dive
He would say use premium gas.
@@ryanlolliliterally he has said it in a lot of his videos before and in this case he would explain how using 87 in a care that recommended 91 for optimal usage would cause premature wear of the valves and need premature adjustments due to the wear and valve lash caused by it..
He is where I learned this info from actually
He would definitely say top tier premium on a turbo di engine if you plan on keeping the vehicle long term.
I would feed it premium in the hot summer months, but regular in the winter or cooler months. However if you hear any sort of pre ignition, you should use premium.
Interesting! I wonder how low you can get away with living at higher elevations?In Colorado, our lowest octane option is 85.
Jon sounds like such a bitter man whenever he replies to these comments. Dude is full of bitterness and salt🤣
mmmmm nah I'm good. Maybe you are reading them with a tone? Idk how you get tone out of text on the internet..
My Maserati M139 engine developed an engine rod knock after running lowered grade fuel. I’ll never try again.
That car probably says required
The amount of money you save by using the lower octane gas you will probably spend by getting worse fuel economy.
we shall see
You should at some point clarify for the audience that octane rating has nothing to do with power output (technically).
The octane rating just changes the pressure at which gasoline spontaneously combusts. If you lower the octane rating, you are increasing the likelihood that combustion occurs before the spark plug goes off. That’s the danger. Fuel efficiency won’t change, power won’t change meaningfully, it’s just a little harder on the engine when it’s running hot and you have the turbos pumping air into the chambers at high pressure.
Honestly, this topic could make for a cool informative video!!
I think the computer will sense the lower quality fuel and adjust the tuning to mitigate knock resulting in lower performance
You need to use 91 or higher. If you use a lower octane you will get spark knock and detonation and intern will cause engine failure.
Are you aware that the exact same engine with same specs is used in the Grand Highlander but only specifies 87 octane? It's the reason why Jon and the rest of us are confused by the manual specifying a higher octane.
@TRDJon 102,095 Toyota recalls as of May New numbers are much more,95,850 production numbers tells you what the future holds for us Toyota owners LX 600 are at 3,524😢 Google is your friend 🤷🏾♀️
Oh yea I know that. The way you wrote form comment said that there where over 100 recalls on the tundra. individual.
What does it matter the oil companies cut the gasoline with alcohol per gov regulations
On the otherhand the tacoma hyrbid says use 87 octane😂 same engine minus the fulltime 4wd. Anybody knows full-time 4wd you lose more horsepower to the wheels due to drivetrain loss of the 4 driven wheels. The premium gas just makes up that power loss in the landcruiser.
So then what about the Tacoma limited hybrid? That is standard 4wd with same outputs and no premium recommendation. I'm just curious why
@@TRDJon toyota and lexus has always had this relationship when it comes to the shared engines. Lexus wants to be more premium feeling so they want their vehicles to run premium gas. The effect is a smoother engine operation which makes the lexus product feel that more refined. The landcruiser running premium sets it apart from the 4runner which I bet will run regular. I'm convinced this marketing strategy. This debate has been going on for years.
Yes I am aware, but I am saying that the Taco Limited is the same as this (unless there is other tuning we don't know about) than the LC
If the engine is turbo charged you need to put premium in the tank or you will be prone to excessive engine knock and may throw a code
Tacoma with the same engine doesn't do premium
I don’t care what the manual says, I have and always will put premium fuel in my vehicles. Mitigate carbon deposits.
Optimal meaning no rod knock
You should absolutely use premium in a turbo charged engine optimized for premium fuel. You will not just get less out of your engine by using regular, you will wear the engine excessively. The price you pay will only be visible after years of use, but then you’ll probably blame Toyota instead of yourself. You do you 🤷♂️
I will. Thanks man
Those engines won’t last long enough for it to be a concern lol.
I actually have no idea but I was always told if it was a turbo engine, premium was best.
All manufacturers have some eco turbo engine in their lineup using regular gas.
Ecu is tuned for 91 or higher. I wouldn’t risk lower octane and a chance of your LC running lean which results to Kaboom
But it doesnt say require in the manual
So. Did you get any knock? What is the mpg after the full tank on that regular unleaded? Did it drop the roughly lower same % as the cost savings%? Does it really save you if you get lower mpg? I got noticeable lower mpg in lexus rx450h before i sold that..
Nope no knock
Yes if it’s recommending it for optimal use that means to use it just like if you chose to use 87 you’ll get valve lash which leads to premature wear and adjustments of valves… I bought my 1998 Lexus from the original owner he used 87 octane it’s whole life 150k miles I’ve started using 93 since I bought it in Jan 6k miles ago it’s caused premature wear and they need to be adjusted bc of it is it required technicality no bc it’ll run without it but it will do more long term harm than good by doing so and using 87….
So use 87 if you don’t want Optimal Reliable Life Span Simple
I would see what Care Care Nut says as he has stated that if a toyota engine is tuned for premium really must put that top end stuff in. Example is the Grand Highlander turbo 4 does not require premium but my wife's Lexus TX is the same engine but tuned for more power so it requires the premium. Regular for my 22 tundra though!
That’s my point in this is that it’s the same engine as the 4Runner, Tacoma as well that don’t require premium.
Tuned for more power is the same as tuned for less with a lower grade gas. Listen to what you are saying. Put premium in the grand highlander and it will produce the same as the TX. Same engine and computer adjusting for grade of gas. That is all
ur gonna have to do something special to get a 4-banger to move that large vehicle
Turbo and hybrid help it. 465ftlb torque
Save those pennies so you can hand them over at the repair shop later…
I'm good
$.60c more for gas, 6000+ more for a new motor
How about octane above 87 and below 91. I agree You should NOT put 87 in there and no it’s not just getting max efficiency. I think it’ll damage the engine long term.
Not sure for long term
Just use TopTier fuels. Look for the sticker on the pump.
-a refinery operator that makes fuel.
Gas stations don't work like that unless it's a small mom and pop store. Branded stores such as chevron, pure, bp, etc require their own branded fuel that has unique additives for each company. Mom and pop stores or stores that aren't a major brand can broker fuel through any company and supplier.
@@theoriginalerk you don’t have a clue. Whoever the nearest refinery is, is making all the fuel for all the gas stations. I literally make fuel for a living
@@Clintshandpaintednailed it!! Each top tier brand a refinery supplies fuel to, their additives get added at the truck rack.
@@russell9673 I’m familiar. Haha.
People really think going down in octane is cheating the system when you are just playing yourself
How?
@TRDJon a vehicle TUNED for high octane will pull ignition timings to prevent knock. This lowers HP. You might get the same mpg but the vehicle will be slightly more sluggish (noticeable if you do lower octane for a few tanks then go back up). I hope for your audience purposes, you actually do multiple tanks of 87, then go back up to 91/93 and see if you notice the performance difference after another few tanks... multiple tanks are needed unless you drain the tank and fuel line since fuel mixing is a factor. But since this is anecdotal experimentation, thats not realistic to do.
however if the vehicle is tuned for 87, putting in higher octane does nothing, may even promote carbon build up due to unburnt fuel since there is nothing in the ECU to advance the timing to take advantage of the higher octane.
Street and Race tuners have already gone down these rabbit holes which is why such vehicles get tuned for 93, e85 and race gas(100-120 octane)
Yes I will be. I didn’t understand the playing yourself part. Thanks
It’s a four cylinder. Who cares. It’s a disgrace to the Land Cruiser name.
You can use it but remember your turbo won’t like you. Power outters need the most premium fuel.
What’s your take on it the preferred gas for a 2020 4 Runner off-road? I’ve been using 87 most of the time because California gas prices are over five dollars a gallon, but do you notice any difference on premium gas when you had your forerunner?
87 for sure. Thats all I've ran in mine.
@@TRDJon thanks for response Jon, good content. 👍
Look up some old Land Cruiser videos people who used 87 and not premium having lots of issues
I see why tundra 2024 blowing their engines... because of Regular bad for engine in tundra 2024?
Not the reason.
That’s almost hundred thousand dollar SUV. Why would you go cheap on gas? That does not make sense. Turbo’s NEED 91 or higher to prevent it from damage….
Cuz the other Toyotas that use the same engine don’t require it
If it “NEEDS” (and by “ needs” I’m assuming you mean “requires”) it would specifically state in the owners manual that that fuel is absolutely required for operation.
There’s literally nothing there that says it “requires“ premium fuel .
@@Treetopflyer777 to be fair though it does say using less than the specified octane in the OM may result in “persistent heavy knocking”. It may not be “required” but I think I’d prefer not to have any persistent heavy knocking coming from my engine. It is the same output as the Tacoma hybrid which only specifies 87 so maybe it’s a nonissue, though I like to have my engine run optimally and get all the performance I purchased (would probably even run 91+ in a Tacoma if I had that).
@@ALMX5DPthat is a fair point 👍🏻
@@TRDJonshouldn't that be a red flag? Wonder why that is? Lol
And if you'd like all of the knock uncle Rodney has, continue using regular
I have to run premium in my motorcycle.
What do you use for your Tacoma?
Regular
Doesn't matter
Wait for someone from Canada isn’t 91 the lowest😂
People still argue about this shit? It’s been settled for decades but yeah we need a UA-cam about it
The vehicle contradicts instelf with the sticker and the manual
@TRDJon hundred of thousands like i said 🤷🏾♀️😢 Go Green 🤦🏿♀️
At the rate Toyota engines are going, I’d put premium in her.
Why? If it blows up then thats just $$$ wasted lol
Because if it blows and they note 87 in the tank, they could not warranty the blown engine.
Then they need to show in the manual where is says REQUIRED instead of for optimum performance
But your manual doesn't say you can use a lower grade. For example, the manual for my camry says to use 0W-16. It also says that I can use 0W-20 but to put 0W-16 back in on the next oil change. Your manual doesn't say specifically that you can use 87. But it does specifically say to use 91 or higher and the fuel door says premium ONLY.
Yes the tacoma has the same output as the land cruiser and uses 87. But maybe its tuned differently. Maybe the engine produces less power and the electric motor assists more in the tacoma. No idea as I'm not a engineer for them, but there has to be a reason why toyota put a premium only sticker on the door. Toyota is smart enough to know that making a vehicle premium only would be a turn off to some people.
Don't forget to follow their recommendations and do your oil changes at 10k lol. Ask your Toyota dealership to do them at 5k and see if they will pay under the included free 24 month maintenance. They will not. You can't trust the manufacturer to give you correct maintenance info. They want low cost of ownership stats while the vehicle is under warranty
How did the regular unleaded perform
So far so good
Lowest we get in england is 95, does anyone know why?
Do you have the new 4runner yet?
No it isn't out yet
If you wanted to save money on premium gas, you could have save a lot of money by not buy that expensive SUV.
Not a money thing.
Reduced vehicle life go brrrrr
Is there a following video somewhere?
I have a long form one dropping today somewhat updating you all.
V6 will grenade with either one 😢
This isn’t a v6. So thanks
Hybrid is worse 😢 Toyota reliability is doomed 😮 sad to see , I owned new Toyotas 1986 and so sad to see , I had to go with the Lexus over the land cruiser as I always done because Lexus didn't go Hybrid to save their reliability reputation
Yea cuz Toyota has never done hybrids ever...totally new concept for them.
😂🤣😂 prius 4x4 would of been a better idea for profits and reliability of Toyota 😂 🚗💨
I think it seems you’re just upset and the future of more efficient engines
What is the use of more efficient technology and hundreds of thousands recalls with no loaners shame on Toyota it use to be about reliability
No loaners???? lol 😂
@@TRDJon tundra isnstill waiting on a replacement engine and Toyota hasn't offered loaner cars ... not so green 😢
Is your truck down or still running
@@TRDJon GX is all good minus a recall or ywo ,but our tundra is at local toyota dealership waiting on new engine due to bearing issue recall , dealership has advised me of over a hundred thousand recalls and more to come , So it will be some time for the engine swap 🤦🏿♀️(no loaner)this is were the argument becomes about reliability should always be first even over efficiency 🙆🏽♀️ all these engines ending up in landfills and producing all these new replacement engine doesn't sound so green and will impact the environment adversely 🤷🏾♀️ not to mention Toyotas sales 😥
There definitely haven’t been 100 recalls on the truck. That dealer doesn’t sound the best. Because all dealers I’ve seen online on FB when people post about it have been given loaners.
So why wouldn't you want optimal mpgs? 🤷🏽♂️
Using premium gas would negate any savings from higher mpgs.
@@andyleo8418 so why wouldn't you want optimal performance? 🤷🏽♂️
This is terrible
So what are you running in it continuously
So… what does the ‘butt dyno’ tell you?
Honestly no difference so far
How about 100 octane ?
Use premium guys.
It s such a dumb truck. Whom ever buys the new Tacoma knows nothing about engines or transmissions. The new 2024 Toyota Tacomas are hot garbage. Now, you have to use premium gas to get the maximum performance and horsepower?!?! What’s joke. This is a toyota tool-bag folks.
Don't watch videos on them then bro hahah
Arm chair engineers😂
Lol, just wanting the UA-cam engineers thoughts
If you can afford the car you can afford 91
Not the point of the video, but I agree
Who cares
You enough to comment 😱