I have enjoyed this discussion on the star wars universe,and the Force. I have enjoyed each movie on there one merits. Don't dislike any of the prequels,or the original movies. Rouge one is good movie on its own. Can't wait for more to see. I am 47 and still a big fan .
Yoda actually provided a line in Revenge of the Sith that Disney and Lucas Film could use to explain the Force still needing balancing but Anakin still being the Chosen One - while his descendants can continue his legacy as such. "A prophecy that easily misunderstood could have been."
Really good video, this is why I subscribed. As a Star Wars fan, studying Taoism is very satisfying as it clearly inspired George Lucas: the Tao is a mysterious force that pervades the universe. Like the Jedi, Taoism has temples, martial arts, warrior monks, wise hermits, immortal sages and mystical powers.
This is brilliant. one of the best videos I've seen. I am so excited to see where all of this goes. Well done, man.
4 роки тому+1
*"Howard Roffman [President of Lucas Licensing], He once said to me that there are two Star Trek universes: there's the TV show and then there's all the spin-offs. He said that these were completely different and didn't have anything to do with each other. So I said, "OK, go ahead."* ~ George Lucas 2008
The Force is highly analogous to ideas from many religious systems. It is very much like the Tao as described in the East, and the One as described by Plato. It is analogous to Wakan Tanka of the Lakota tribe, Neart of ancient Irish spirituality, the Brahman of India, and lots of others. The list goes on and on. Lucas did his homework.
4 роки тому+1
*"I don't even read the offshoot books that come out based on Star Wars."* ~ George Lucas, Flannelled One, July 1999 - Film Night interview
Great video Thor! Your theory is well thought out and makes sense within the Star Wars Universe. I also agree that hopefully the creators/writers have, and have had this entire time, a working, solid, detailed definition for what the force is and also what the Light/Dark/Grey sides are. I do have to disagree however on your thoughts about how the Skywalker family, and how Rey & Kylo Ren weave into this whole thing, I think you've made it too complicated. I don't have a working theory of my own, but I simply feel that it's all a much simpler explanation - kind of like your definition for what the Force is: Everything. I think that simplicity SHOULD and WILL weave into the remainder of the story.
I've never taken the Force to be identical with nature. It's IN nature, and it's required for nature to function, but it is not nature itself. If it were, it would reduce the Force to biology (midicholorians) or physics (space-time). The Force transcends nature: Panentheism rather than pantheism, and the Noumenon rather than any Phenomena. As far as the differences between Light and Dark, I like to recall the classical Greek/Eastern Orthodox definition of 'Evil': Evil itself has no ontological basis. Evil is the lack of Good. It's an effect, rather than a substance in itself. I think this will tie in with how the so-called 'Gray' aspects of the Force are explored in the new trilogy. What we've always assumed to be the "Dark Side" is actually a misuse of the Force, which in itself is fundamentally Good. This could make for some interesting uses of the Force by Luke and Rey. Even Kylo Ren seems to be in on it--seemed odd seeing a Dark Side user stop a blaster bolt in mid-air and just leave it to hover (a purely defensive technique, something we've never really seen associated with the Dark Side).
This is a very good video. I agree with most of what you are saying. I'm not a fan of this whole grey thing Disney is bringing into Star Wars. I loved your explanation of why the Jedi act as the grey while using the light accomplish balance. Keep up the good work.
Why aren't you a fan of the grey side of the force? I think it makes perfect sense as in terms of color coordinating, it's literally the balance between the light and dark and achieving balance in the force is kinda what Star Wars has been about. It's also the goal many real world religions and what many people strive for within themselves.
Strict light side adherence is unnatural for us emotional lifeforms so a balance between anger and compassion, etc. seems more in tune with a natural order, IMHO
I'm a little late (LOL) but my theory is that it's something like this. Let's look at our reality, and take for granted some concepts that come from religion, just for the sake of this proposition. In our world, different beings exhibit different energies, or "spirits" which manifest themselves in different ways, and we could divide them into kingdoms in the following way: Minerals, plants, animals, humans, Prophets, and Deity. Minerals basically exist. That's how their spirit manifests. Plants exist and grow, so the distinguishing quality of the plant kingdom is the power of growth. Animals exist, grow, move, and have the five senses, base emotions, and limited decision making which seems entirely guided by their senses and self-interest, so their distinguishing quality is the power of motion, the senses, emotions, and limited decision making. Human beings have all these qualities, plus the ability to think, imagine, create, and through the power of the "Holy Spirit" transcend their selfish qualities and come to a limited knowledge of the Deity which gives them a second birth, a new life so to speak. This is basically everything of relevance to the Star Wars theory, but just to complete these categories, the Prophets are the mediators of this "Holy Spirit" from the Deity and gatekeepers to the knowledge of It, and the Deity itself is the source of all things and ultimately unknowable. So, how does this relate to Star Wars? I would say that the "Force" is essentially the human spirit, using it is the result of the individual's consciousness that this spirit has extraordinary power which can affect the material world, and the dark and light side are different aspects of our nature which can be unlocked depending on which emotions we use to amplify our abilities to achieve our goals. So a Dark Lord of the Sith a.l.a. Palpatine in Star Wars would correspond to a brilliant and ruthless dictator solidifying the powers of his mind with the belief in the superiority of his people, and tapping into his baser emotions of arrogance, egotism, brutality to give him the strength to overthrow his government and start a war. The source of his power isn't a greater spirit that exists per se, rather it's his own ego and self-made beliefs. On the other hand, a wise Jedi Master like Kenobi who manages to become "One with the Force" would correspond to a saintly individual who sacrificed all their material pursuits to serve the will of the Deity, and did so to such a degree that they were capable of tapping into the "Holy Spirit" to change their greedy instincts into genuine selflessness and become directed entirely by the "Will of God", someone entirely unconcerned with this world and occupied with preparing others for a greater one to come. This change in the individual's nature would be like Obi-Wan becoming One with the Force, or a pious individual being reborn in faith. Ultimately, most Jedi probably fall into the lot of "strugglers" as opposed to actual servants of the Light side which is why they ultimately fall to the Sith's manipulations. So ultimately, rather than seeing the light and dark sides of the Force as opposite aspects of one greater power, like say oil and water in a cup, I see the Force as a representation of the power of the human spirit, and the dark and light side's as different ways to realize that power. The light side itself is a greater power that leads to enlightenment and transcendence, and the Dark side is a path to greater material power that ultimately leads to abasement and regret.
I always thought The Force was more akin to the Dao, from Chinese philosophy. Some could say Zen too, but Zen itself was heavily influenced by Daoist ideas. Love your videos btw. I do have a bit of a wrench for you... if the trait of being Force Sensitive is not one that is passed down... then why does Qui Gon Jinn ask Shmi who Anakin's father is? I think that maybe lends itself to that the ability can be passed down. Maybe it doesn't happen often, that part is unclear, but if it was unheard of, why would Qui Gon ask?
4 роки тому+1
*"The terminology of "Expanded Universe" was a careful one; it expanded on the world created in the core stories, but was never officially meant to be Star Wars canon, according to the Maker himself, George Lucas."* ~ Dave Filoni 2017
You should definitely check out Process Philosophy, a la Whitehead and John Cobb, and particularly their concept of the Primordial and Consequent natures of God. And particularly how Process Philosophy has been developed by thinkers like Catherine Keller. (And don't be scared off by the word "theology," which in contemporary philosophy merely means the study of ultimate concerns.) Relatedly, it might be worth your time, if you're interested, to check out thinkers like Ibn 'Arabi, Nagarjuna, Mulla Sandra, and the cosmological speculations of the Noe-Confucians. All of which is to say that the concept of the Force and how it is being described does actually have a pretty clear pedigree in Earth-bound religious philosophy.
Thank you for the recommendations. Much appreciated. I very much want to expand my knowledge of the ideas and philosophies behind Star Wars and the idea of the Force and plan on checking these out.
Great video! Your suggestion that living beings and their emotions leave impressions onto the force, and how this could create the different sides sounds like a very interesting idea, explaining many things. And the point about how the Cosmic and Living force exchange energy whenever someone dies or is born, and how that relates to being born a child of the force, was great too. One thing I disagree with: You said that the voice Rey heard in the duel was Snoke. From the context around that line I think that's wrong, it was her own emotions. I don't think Rey is a pure "child of the light" as you say, I think she has both dark and light in her, and that voice was her dark emotions translated into words. That was clearly an internal struggle, not an external one, as she told herself how quick and easy it would be while her lighter emotions caused her to recoil from the thought.
It could very well be that Rey is a combination of dark and light, and that the voice she heard was her own. It's really hard to know for sure one way or another knowing so little about her... but I certainly think she was either tapping into the dark side at the end against Kylo Ren, or on the verge of it.
I definitely think she could have accidentally ended up tapping into some of it. However on the original topic, I find it really interesting how people's emotions can leave residual energy in the force. Could this explain what happened with Rey's force vision, or with the Vader's mask "show me again the power of the darkness" line? Could it explain what happened with the sith mask in Empire's End?
I certainly think it could all be connected. That, as I say in the video, life leaves an imprint or residue on the Force--for good or bad. Vader's mask shows Ben/Kylo a vision of the dark side's power because it was worn by Anakin when he was with the dark side... while the saber shows Rey a different kind of vision because it was wielded by Anakin on the light and also by Luke. I think (and hope) we're going to get some cool revelations in The Last Jedi about how the Force works. Not the whole story, obviously, but far more than we've gotten so far. I think they're going to more or less establish a baseline on how things in the Star Wars Universe work so that there will be consistency in the story telling going forward.
Very interesting video, with many interesting ideas about the force and the possible storyline of the sequel trilogy. Thank you for sharing! Perhaps if Rey and Ben Solo survive the sequel trilogy, it could be Ben's livelong quest to guard Rey, and Rey's quest could be to guard him.
That's a very interesting idea you're on to about guarding each other, though maybe Rey's real purpose is to guard and protect the newest coming of the Chosen One, that being Ben? I don't know, but I think you may be on to something here...
Just one question. If the Jedi were not making the force unbalanced than why did Anakin destroy them before destroying the Sith? Was it because of the Jedi's unbalanced union with the republic or something else?
The Jedi, when acting as they should (servants of the will of the Force, wielding the light side to maintain balance) do not cause imbalance. But when they lost their way, and worried too much about politics, and became just a tool of the Republic, then they did cause imbalance. Look at Qui-Gon Jinn. He was probably the most 'Jedi' like character we saw in the prequels, and he wasn't on the Council simply because he didn't follow all the rules that were bogging down the rest of the Jedi. He remained true to serving the Will of the Force and for it he was more like an outsider.
*"There is no more clear illustration of the difference between the Expanded Universe and the Star Wars created by George Lucas. The EU is a well of ideas, and there's what's on screen. They don't live in the same universe. Everyone wants to think so, I know… We just need to think of it all as a creative collection of fun ideas separate from what George Lucas has made."* ~ Dave Filoni 2012
Great video once again. I have thought of some of these things before, like the lineage (after shmi) being the chosen one's for example, but it's cool to hear you expand upon what these things would then mean/could mean.im also glad you explained the balance for people in a way that hopefully everyone can grasp- it's actually staggering how many people think the balance has to do with equal number of sith and Jedi- and I've heard such ridiculous theories stemming from said misunderstanding of the balance. I wonder if the skywalker lineage's force sensitivity truly would stop once the force was balanced . It's a good theory and makes sense.
It is probably the biggest misconception in Star Wars that 'balance' is equal parts light and dark (or Sith and Jedi). And don't get me wrong, I can certainly understand how and why people think that way... it's not like it's ever been explained anywhere in the Star Wars cannon.... but rather has only been spoken about by George Lucas himself.
another brilliant installment by you Thor...i dont even know where to begin... i'll be back after i watch it again (i also have meetings from 9-noon, so i wanted to crowbar this in 5 min before 9am)...
next video should be you're favorite lightsaber duels top 5 or 10 mine are - 1 . anakin vs obiwan 2. luke vs vader rotj 3. obi vs maul episode 1 4. ahsoka vs vader 5 . rey vs kylo im very curious about your list
I love all your ideas, even if I don't agree with some, like your idea that the Force simply exists, not a fan of that one, but I see where that's coming from
I also wish there was a better idea for how Force came into being... but like I said in the video, if something created the Force, that means there'd have to be something more powerful than it, and I just think there shouldn't be anything greater than the Force in the Star Wars Universe.
Thor Skywalker i agree with that, in the Star Wars universe The Force is the greatest thing, it is at the top of everything, like you said It's kinda like God, and with religions that follow God there isn't someone or something greater than God, God has always been there and always will be, in those religions i mean, and so like God, The Force has always been there and always will be there
I agree with almost everything. I think that the energy is recycled into the Cosmic Force, but that the pure intelligence is retained in the universe. Force Ghosts could be people who could keep the energy in our universe (or at least be able to commune in Qui Gon's case).
Very good video. I never understood why people hated the Midichlorians so much. It simply changed the way they TALKED about the force unlike the current trilogy which has made huge changes to the very concept. Midichlorians could simply be a cultural clue of how well to do societies tend to become more humanistic and rational...and in dark times people become more spiritual. So in the prequels..there's this sciency talk of Midichlorians...and during the times of the STATIC and STERILE Empire that talk became more spiritual.
Awesome video! I agree with almost everything that was said in this video and I think you presented it in a very informative and clear way. There is also a video by the 'Urban Acolyte' channel that explains a lot of things about how the Force works in the SW universe (and it's been praised by Pablo hidalgo himself so it has some validity). It's called "How the Force Works in Star Wars".
So I enjoyed most if your theory-crafting, I think you miss several key points: #1 - The Whills. Who are they? How do they connect to the Cosmic or Living Force? The original title for Star Wars (A New Hope) was Journal of the Whills: the Adventures of Luke Starkiller. The Whills have been mentioned in Canon both in the Rebels series and in Rogue 1. To not mention them or at least include them within your theory, to me, is an issue. #2 There are other force using groups other than the Jedi and the Sith (mentioned in Cannon). The Witches of Dathormir, The Inquisitor Squad, that fact that most Sith works in groups of 3 despite the proclaimed "Rule of 2" with the apprentice of the Master taking on their own apprentice. (ie ventriss, vader recruiting Luke, Sidious having Tyranus in line right after Maul dies, implying he was also being groomed, etc). So how do these other groups help the balance of the Force? If i=anything they would cause an even greater imbalance, so while the movies (an more especially the sequel trilogy) make an issue focusing on Rey and Kylo being the balancing factor, they ignore they other force using groups within the balance equation. #3 I don't believe Jakku was a light side bastion. as it states in the Aftermath Series. Sidious set up the station in akku because it was strong in the force and he eventually turned it into a Dark Side place. It has also been stated that Dagobah and Tatooine had strong Dark Side presences which was why Yoda and Obi-wan were able to hide there, not because they were strong in the Light side, but the opposite, they were strong in the dark side and so this masked their presences from the Emperor and Vader.
This is before Disney took over, but the Force is conscious because it does have a Will as explored in the KOTOR series, especially KOTOR 2. I don't know if that's still canon or if the Will of the Force was mentioned at all in the movies, but as a concept, the Force is/was conscious.
Hey - love the content, keep it up! :) Do you think that the dark/light powers of the force, is split between the users of said 'school' or do they 'carry around' their own stach of energy to be used in combat or other things? So when Bane instilled the rule of two, those two Sith would be way more powerfull, as there were so many less to share the dark side with. This could also be a factor, as to why Vapad was so powerfull in prequal years. I'd love to hear any-one's thought :)
I enjoy most thing but I am not sure there really is a light and dark side of the force per se. As you said in the beginning - The force is The Force and comes out of every living being (for the living force) or dead thing (for the dead force) and its up to the force sencitive beings to use the living force in the matter they choose. Some choose to be light, some choose to be dark while others choose to be something else - Like Bendu. One can argue that it is that who in the end create Sith and Jedi - Not the force itself. And maybe thats the change of perspective on the SW universe our friends at Disney is about to release in ep VIII? That the force are so much more than light and dark? Johan.
Great video! One thing that comes to mind when I hear about keeping balance within the Force is the ending of the Matrix trilogy where Neo lets Agent Smith kill him, and thus brings balance to their world. But anyway. I agree with what you say in the video on a lot of topics and believe that the Jedi and Sith are just two different religions of the Force...two extreme differences. In agreeing with the living and non-living Force, I do believe that the non-living Force is comprised of what is and what was, like you said. But, I do think the Force is neither light nor dark, it just is. I think that people could be open to hearing the Force, but block it out as they just don't believe in it. Like Han said: "mumbo-jumbo". The Jedi and Sith were just two extreme religions of the Force and we're about to be introduced "on screen" to another: The Grey. I believe that Snoke is more of a Dark Grey, whereas Sidious was a Sith Lord. Which leads me to one question about the "kill him" line in the Novel, which is pretty interesting. "Kill him," a voice inside her head said. It was amorphous, unidentifiable, raw. Pure vengeful emotion. So easy, she told herself. So quick. She recoiled from it. From the dark side." I would speculate that this line would have closer ties to Sidious than Snoke. Even though we haven't seen a lot of Snoke, he didn't seem to fit this character that's laid out in the phrase and I really couldn't picture him saying those words. We do hear Sidious say those exact words at the beginning of ROTS: Palpatine Voice: "Kill him. Kill him now" Sidious Voice: "Do it!" Where Rey, Kylo, and Finn end up is really interesting, especially if Disney decides to make another Trilogy after this one.
I agree with you that at some point in The Last Jedi we're finally going to hear the gray mentioned in a movie. It seems clear this is going to be a big part of Disney's Star Wars going forward, and it makes sense because--as you point out--the Jedi and Sith were the two extremes. It only makes sense there would be those who find themselves more in the middle. You're also right about that line "kill him", that does sound exactly like something Sidious would say. I'm also so very curious to see how this all plays out... and you know at some point there will be another trilogy after this one. The only question is when... I'd guess it may be some time, something like ten years... but who knows for sure?
4 роки тому
*"I didn't have any direct contact with George about Star Wars. - I would see some notes based on the interviews or the meetings. But I did not have direct contact with George about Star Wars continuity."* ~ Leland Chee 2018
Yo dawg....real talk? You got da fuck DOWN on this one! I'm subscribing!
4 роки тому
"The dual universe question comes up often. *I know George Lucas has mentioned it being two universes* , but that’s not how I see it. His vision is definitely not beholden to ours, but ours is definitely beholden to his." ~ Leland Chee 2012
They're not going to sacrifice her, no way. You need to remember it's not just about the story, but also the movie industry and making money. They will keep her alive so they can make future generations for later star wars. ;)
Granted, I might be off on her having to sacrifice herself.... but I wouldn't be that shocked if she doesn't come out of this trilogy alive. I just have a feeling something is going to happen, in either Episode VIII or IX that no one expects or sees coming.... though I certainly get your point about wanting to make more money off her in the future
Good thoughts, clarity and Thor......I am hoping as Thor has said in a previous video that Episode 9 ends in Ben Solo redeemed and that he saves Rey by sacrificing himself. That would be a better storyline I think, and it nicely mirrors other themes and ties things together for me. And I love Rey's character and the costume/actor is so well done--very much like the original Luke, which is the essence of Star Wars I believe. Oh and she is not too bad to look at either. Seriously, it would also be interesting if Rey led us into the next trilogy the same way Luke has done for episode 7-9. Since Luke will most likely have made his exit by then. Maybe this is too predictable, and I agree Disney has shown signs of departing from the predictable. I really think they keep her alive. Of course, we will have more to go on soon. If, for lack of a better word, an "interesting" character or two emerges in episode 8 or 9, that could speed up the departure of Rey, I suppose. Though I hope she stays! Long live Rey!
ER, There is one problem here. The Force does have a Will of its own. That's been stated numerous Times in Star Wars. I do Think The Force is basically God, and Lucas himself said this was his intention. I also note that, unlike how Christianity is understoo in pop culture, there are Christians who would see the Force work the same way God is understood to by them. I'd say the actual situation is the Force is basically how God is understood by the peopel in The Star Wars Galaxy, like how C.S. Lewis said God could be seen in different cultures and Religions. (And he was by no means the first to say this.) It's just their cultural expression of God and their way to understand him.
"Who am I? One name you might have for me is The World, or you might call me The Universe, or perhaps God, or perhaps the Truth. I am all and I am one, so of course this also means that I am you." Truth, Fullmetal Alchemist Midi-chlorians sounds and seems to have evolved like the Mitochondria.
the Skywalker twins weren't the only instance of force sensitivity being passed down. starkillers father was a Jedi. also when qui gon found out about Anakin's connection to the force, his first question was, who was his father. implying that they understood that it is passed down, to some degree or another.
I agree with your analysis of the force theory. I do think you missed one vital piece of information as to why the Skywalkers are so strong with the force. The Skywalkers have families and children where other Jedi have been denied that right. Jedi are not supposed to have families because the possibility of loss and pain could lead them to the dark side.
If I heard you correctly, you said The Force is not like any idea we have on earth. It is very similar (almost identical) to the Tao.
4 роки тому
”The novels and comic books are other authors' interpretations of my creation. Sometimes, I tell them what they can and cant do, but I just don't have the time to read them. *They're not my vision of what Star Wars is."* ~ George Lucas 2004
"Understand, that the *Holocron's primary purpose is to keep track of Star Wars continuity for Lucas Licensing* , and to some degree Lucas Online. To my knowledge, it is only *rarely used for production purposes."* ~ Leland Chee 2005/6
Thanks for the Five Star rating, that's means a lot because I put a lot into this video and wasn't sure how much people would enjoy it. I love the idea that the Force is 'learning' from the life that it created, and vice versa. Anyway, I think you bring up a lot of very interesting ideas here. As I said to the other person you mentioned, I think there is a chance Han & Leia had another child and that maybe in some way Ben was responsible for their death (or it seemed like he was) and that was what finally got him sent away to Luke and why they thought there was 'too much Vader in him'. Maybe Snoke manipulated the whole thing to make it look like it was his fault... but it really wasn't? As you point out, we know Snoke has been watching Ben Solo from the very start of his life. I also really like the idea that Rey was born as a result of the other child's death. Almost like she is the reincarnation of this child sent back to help Ben Solo balance the Force once and for all.
Only one problem I noticed... you said Rey was born on Jakku. However, we don't yet know where Rey was born and I'm guessing it wasn't Jakku. Granted, she may have been born there, but right now we don't have any information on that. Also, if she was born there, I'm sure her family would have had a place to live. Why wouldn't they leave that place to her when they left? I mean the AT-AT is Rey's place that she made her own. I just don't think she was born Jakku is all and we don't have enough information on it yet either way...
The way I see how Rey could be that powerful with next to no actual training - especially in lightsaber combat - is she channelled the Force, and for one of lightsaber combat is designed around channelling the Force.
I still think that equal parts light and dark is the way to go. Because what you're saying is that the Jedi are grey and they're obviously not. And if the light side controls everything then that's not really balance.
4 роки тому
"The act of living generates a force field, an energy. That energy surrounds us; when we die, that energy joins with all the other energy. *There is a giant mass of energy in the universe that has a good side and a bad side.* We are part of the Force because we generate the power that makes the Force live. When we die, we become part of that Force, so we never really die; we continue as part of the Force." ~ *George Lucas* during a production meeting for The Empire Strikes Back
I agree ... I've had similar thoughts on this also...nice how you have weaved it together in a harmonious way very Greek tragedy like. This is the human psyche and mythos of our belief systems!!!The light the dark and grey. The left the right and middle. The liberal the conservative and libertarian. The democrat the republican and independent. The Jedi the Sith and bogon!
4 роки тому
*"The Father was a powerful Force wielder who resided in the realm of Mortis. His children, the Daughter and the Son, represented the light side and the dark side of the Force, respectively. Balance was maintained between them by the Father until his failing health compelled him to search for a successor."* *Balance between his children.* .. They don't even exist in the Star Wars universe, its another dimension.
What if balance isn't about the Force attending a permanent state of neutrality? What if like planets the light and the dark are supposed to take their turn in a never-ending cycle? There is light during the day and then as the day ends darkness rises for the night. What if it just keeps on in that cycle forever? What if that is what bringing balance is? What if The chosen one had to end the day so that night could come at the same time he had to put away the night so that the day could come again?
Everything is made of energy - study the Laws of Nature. "It's the energy between all things..." Balance is equality in terms of how most people think of it, but you can be "balanced" and do nothing or be neutral - or do everything (which I see as purposeful and conscious). It's not what you use, but how you use it. I think the Grey "side" is defined more like balance - an equal influence of dark and light, but the difference between *grey* and *balance* is purpose, which in turn creates the symphony of knowing when to use the dark and light for a greater good, or progress. Everything has a frequency, or vibration; from space, (which most people think of as empty) to something as complex as a human being, having multiple frequencies or vibrations in itself. Even rocks have certain frequencies, depending on what they're made of, and even then you can cut and polish a rock to give it a little different frequency. "I don't like sand. It's coarse and gets everywhere." Not every frequency resonates with something else or someone else the same. The balance Anakin was supposed to bring was more like a symphony between the dark and the light. "Life. Death and decay, which brings new life". I really don't think there is any other explanation that can come from balance when you start talking about, or believing that the darkness and light are separate. "That Force does not belong to the Jedi. To say that if the Jedi die, the light dies is Vanity".
If the dark side power from the unknown regions knew Vader was made to bring balance, it most likely knows everyone who is that. So why did Snoke, who joined with that dark side power, choose Ben to be his apprentice although he is a Skywalker, which means he is made to bring balance to the force.
That would be really interesting to find out! It could explain Snoke. Right now The Farce Awakens is my least favorite Star Wars movie. But I have high hopes for The Last Jedi. Maybe that's where Luke has been. Stomping the guts out of the "the dark side power from the unknown regions". There might still be hope...
I think in the end Kylo will return to the light, Rey will be tempted to the dark by Snoke but ultimately will join Ben in defeating Snoke and all 3 of them will die, bringing true balance. Disney will then be free of the Skywalker and still leave it open to more light/dark battles in future trilogies.
That would work: the cancer of the dark side has coalesced into one entity that can now be destroyed in order to rid the Galaxy of said cancer. And Ben will finish what Vader started by bringing balance to the force. But Rey is influenced if not created by the light so she shouldn't have to die to bring balance bc the Jedi, while working with the force, were not a threat to the cosmic force, only the sith. correct?
I never thought of it like that... Rey being a creation of the Light and the Dark Side Force power choosing someone to embody. Still, who is Snoke? Personally, I think he's the Grand Inquisitor! Rey v. Grand Inquisitor Snoke 😉
Yes, I agree... but life is made of energy. I think of what Yoda said of the Force in ESB: "Life creates it. Makes it grow. It's energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings we are, not this crude matter."
Study Taoism and you'll see the force is essentially based on the Tao (the way) & Qi (the force). I thought everybody knew this 'til I watched this video & read some of the comments. (see www.chinadaily.com.cn/opinion/2015-12/24/content_22792319.htm for a more indepth thought process about it) As for having to reconcile the fact we don't have the force in our galaxy, it's very easy to do. I can think of 2 ways to do it -- 1. They have midichlorians living in their galaxy but we just don't have any living here, or at least we don't appear to have any in our little piece of the galaxy. Therefore we simply don't have any force sensitive people here that we're aware of, but that doesn't mean the force isn't in our galaxy too. We're just out of touch with it. 2. You could also tie this back to Taoism. Perhaps Taoism originated from earthlings who were force sensitives as they studied the force. Of course, if there are force sensitives here on our planet, it raises an obvious question -- why don't we know about them? Easy answer is -- many of the beings in the Star Wars galaxy don't believe in the force or they think the force is just a myth. So why can't it be that way here too? Perhaps most of us are like a young Han Solo and just don't realize it's here and real 'cause we haven't had contact with someone who can use it or anything. Even Rey was surprised to learn that Luke Skywalker wasn't a myth and that the force was a real thing, and she was force sensitive!
First, I love you answers on how the Star Wars galaxy could very well be in our own. Great explanations. I also agree Taosim was likely the original inspiration for George Lucas when he created the Force. However, and I don't mean to create an argument or debate here, but I feel like the Force should have it's own explanation entirely--separate, at least in some respects, from any beliefs we hold here on our world. Similar to Taosim is fine, but it needs to be its own distinct thing, that works differently so that they are free to take the story (and the Force itself) in whatever direction they, as storytellers, desire.
I think a major problem with Star Wars is that they do indeed make it up as they go along, which leads to plot holes and inconsistencies with the story. I believe George Lucas present us with very basic ideas of good and evil and a lot of us look for deeper meaning behind what's given to us. Don't get me wrong I love Star Wars and debating about the theories and so on but George Lucas wasn't even the one to develop the deeper and more interesting aspects and scope of the stories. The Star Wars novels and expanded universe are by far much more interesting than anything the movies ever gave us. Sure they present the basic ideas, but it's the novels that are written by people other than George Lucas that give us a better understanding of that whole universe. Look at how blatantly sloppy and inaccurate the prequels were given to us, yes they were ok but were expected by its fans to be much more comprehensive and emotionally driven. Honestly and it pains me to say this but I believe we look for clues and/or connections to things that aren't there but are added as an after thought to appease us and make money. Hopefully Disney will not make this same mistake with lazily handling the stories and characters and leaving it up to others to develop the more interesting back story as Lucas did.I believe the team of writers and actors they use for their stories will be more adequately used. I also dare to say that if Lucas did actually get the chance to make Ep.7 it wouldn't have been as well made as the Ep.7 we got from Disney
And what goes in the blank timeline spaces of the Film Only universe - can we never know the history or background of that Star Wars universe like we can in the EU Star Wars universe? *"Nothing. That's why it's film only."* [Two continuities, 2 universes.]] ~ Leland Chee, 2007 - ibb.co/3dBN7Sw
I think they should go with the Skywalkers being a Falsely Created Obomination NOT the Chosen One(s) AND the true Chosen One IS REY....or if they do stick with Anakin being the actual Chosen One, Rey is the lost Child of the Solos and who's disappearance was the cause of the breakup of the family...
I've been hoping that's the way they'll play it, as if she was The Awakening of the ACTUAL FORCE itself (ie.: THE CHOSEN ONE), as Snoke referred to. They WILL insert a major twist somewhere (as in respect to Vader being Lukes Father in the originals). However, I'm STILL waiting for some ideas on WHAT happened to the Solos to break up the family. It was obvious SOMETHING happened which caused Han to split and Ben to be sent to Luke (although it was never mentioned further AND EVERYONE seems to have overlooked it!)....could have been the "loosing" of a younger child???....that would be cool as well...Thoughts??
I am so very curious to know what happen that finally sent Han & Leia over the edge, and made them send Ben away to be trained by Luke. It seems clear that they initially didn't want him to be trained (or he would've been sent at a younger age) but I'd have to imagine something he did let them see 'too much Vader in him' and changed their minds and they sent him away. Obviously, I think that same tragedy is what split the family apart. There are even references to 'something' happening in the book Bloodline. Honestly, it wouldn't shock me at all if (perhaps indirectly) Ben Solo was responsible for the death of a younger sibling. That would certainly be a tragedy that could tear a family apart and force the hand of parents to send their son away. Now do I think that younger sibling will turn out to be Rey? Probably not... but only because it would be too difficult to explain why they thought she'd died... and how she then ended up alive and on Jakku.
Unless it was a sneaky set up involving the seduction of Ben, in which he was supposed to kill her to show his loyalty and devotion to his new master (like Anakin with the Jedi Temple) BUT HE FAKED IT....because Ben didn't have the heart(lessness) to do it AND dumped her (or someone was chartered to) on SOME planet hoping it would never come up again. Hence his fright and concern with the "WHAT GIRL?!" lines...
Damn, that's actually a pretty good theory right there. Snoke demands something that show Ben's conviction... he fakes his sister's death and has her dumped on some random planet because he can't kill her... and gets nervous when he hears about a girl on Jakku.
I don't know if I would. I'd be curious yes but let's face it Lucas is not a great storyteller. I don't think he ever had a consistent concept of exactly what the force is and how it works. Mostly I suspect it was a story excuse - he wanted a sci-fi version of chi. Jedi clearly are inspired by wuxia literature. The runaway success of Star Wars leads people to ask questions about details in the plot that I doubt Lucas ever considered. Imagine if some other medium-budget popcorn movie had such success. People would be asking the same questions to screenwriters who just put stuff in there for convenience or because it was cool.
"...only it's absolutely nothing like any god of any religion we believe in here in our world." Not entirely accurate. The Force is basically The All / The One / The Absolute in Hermeticism and Neoplatonism, the eternal Tao in Taoism, or Brahman in Vedism and Hinduism. Some people do use those terms and "god" interchangeably. "While All is in The All, it is equally true that The All is in All." For Plotinus, the first principle of reality is "the One", an utterly simple, ineffable, unknowable subsistence which is both the creative source and the teleological end of all existing things. Although, properly speaking, there is no name appropriate for the first principle, the most adequate names are "the One" or "the Good". The One is so simple that it cannot even be said to exist or to be a being. Rather, the creative principle of all things is beyond being, a notion which is derived from Book VI of the Republic, when, in the course of his famous analogy of the sun, Plato says that the Good is beyond being (ἐπέκεινα τῆς οὐσίας) in power and dignity.
I have enjoyed this discussion on the star wars universe,and the Force. I have enjoyed each movie on there one merits. Don't dislike any of the prequels,or the original movies. Rouge one is good movie on its own. Can't wait for more to see. I am 47 and still a big fan .
Yoda actually provided a line in Revenge of the Sith that Disney and Lucas Film could use to explain the Force still needing balancing but Anakin still being the Chosen One - while his descendants can continue his legacy as such. "A prophecy that easily misunderstood could have been."
Oh, thank the Living Force for a an upload from you today Thor. 16 minutes plus...I feel Manly tears ala Kenshiro welling behind my eyes.
lol, glad I could brighten your day. Hope you enjoyed it!
Lol
*thus, you keep the Force in balance by making the light side pure and free of the dark side."*
~Lucas
Really good video, this is why I subscribed. As a Star Wars fan, studying Taoism is very satisfying as it clearly inspired George Lucas: the Tao is a mysterious force that pervades the universe. Like the Jedi, Taoism has temples, martial arts, warrior monks, wise hermits, immortal sages and mystical powers.
This is brilliant. one of the best videos I've seen. I am so excited to see where all of this goes. Well done, man.
*"Howard Roffman [President of Lucas Licensing], He once said to me that there are two Star Trek universes: there's the TV show and then there's all the spin-offs. He said that these were completely different and didn't have anything to do with each other. So I said, "OK, go ahead."*
~ George Lucas 2008
The Force is highly analogous to ideas from many religious systems. It is very much like the Tao as described in the East, and the One as described by Plato. It is analogous to Wakan Tanka of the Lakota tribe, Neart of ancient Irish spirituality, the Brahman of India, and lots of others. The list goes on and on. Lucas did his homework.
*"I don't even read the offshoot books that come out based on Star Wars."*
~ George Lucas, Flannelled One, July 1999 - Film Night interview
Great video Thor! Your theory is well thought out and makes sense within the Star Wars Universe. I also agree that hopefully the creators/writers have, and have had this entire time, a working, solid, detailed definition for what the force is and also what the Light/Dark/Grey sides are. I do have to disagree however on your thoughts about how the Skywalker family, and how Rey & Kylo Ren weave into this whole thing, I think you've made it too complicated. I don't have a working theory of my own, but I simply feel that it's all a much simpler explanation - kind of like your definition for what the Force is: Everything. I think that simplicity SHOULD and WILL weave into the remainder of the story.
I've never taken the Force to be identical with nature. It's IN nature, and it's required for nature to function, but it is not nature itself. If it were, it would reduce the Force to biology (midicholorians) or physics (space-time). The Force transcends nature: Panentheism rather than pantheism, and the Noumenon rather than any Phenomena. As far as the differences between Light and Dark, I like to recall the classical Greek/Eastern Orthodox definition of 'Evil': Evil itself has no ontological basis. Evil is the lack of Good. It's an effect, rather than a substance in itself. I think this will tie in with how the so-called 'Gray' aspects of the Force are explored in the new trilogy. What we've always assumed to be the "Dark Side" is actually a misuse of the Force, which in itself is fundamentally Good. This could make for some interesting uses of the Force by Luke and Rey. Even Kylo Ren seems to be in on it--seemed odd seeing a Dark Side user stop a blaster bolt in mid-air and just leave it to hover (a purely defensive technique, something we've never really seen associated with the Dark Side).
very well thought out by someone who actually understands Star Wars....not like most of the fantasy garbage on youtube.
Thank you, glad you enjoyed it.
This is a very good video. I agree with most of what you are saying. I'm not a fan of this whole grey thing Disney is bringing into Star Wars. I loved your explanation of why the Jedi act as the grey while using the light accomplish balance. Keep up the good work.
Why aren't you a fan of the grey side of the force? I think it makes perfect sense as in terms of color coordinating, it's literally the balance between the light and dark and achieving balance in the force is kinda what Star Wars has been about. It's also the goal many real world religions and what many people strive for within themselves.
Jared Clark Because it sounds stupid and makes everything pointless.
Well that's a pretty good incentive not to let yourself get too light
Strict light side adherence is unnatural for us emotional lifeforms so a balance between anger and compassion, etc. seems more in tune with a natural order, IMHO
This is an awesome video! Exactly what I've always thought. Great job! Keep up the great work!
I'm a little late (LOL) but my theory is that it's something like this. Let's look at our reality, and take for granted some concepts that come from religion, just for the sake of this proposition. In our world, different beings exhibit different energies, or "spirits" which manifest themselves in different ways, and we could divide them into kingdoms in the following way: Minerals, plants, animals, humans, Prophets, and Deity.
Minerals basically exist. That's how their spirit manifests. Plants exist and grow, so the distinguishing quality of the plant kingdom is the power of growth. Animals exist, grow, move, and have the five senses, base emotions, and limited decision making which seems entirely guided by their senses and self-interest, so their distinguishing quality is the power of motion, the senses, emotions, and limited decision making. Human beings have all these qualities, plus the ability to think, imagine, create, and through the power of the "Holy Spirit" transcend their selfish qualities and come to a limited knowledge of the Deity which gives them a second birth, a new life so to speak. This is basically everything of relevance to the Star Wars theory, but just to complete these categories, the Prophets are the mediators of this "Holy Spirit" from the Deity and gatekeepers to the knowledge of It, and the Deity itself is the source of all things and ultimately unknowable.
So, how does this relate to Star Wars? I would say that the "Force" is essentially the human spirit, using it is the result of the individual's consciousness that this spirit has extraordinary power which can affect the material world, and the dark and light side are different aspects of our nature which can be unlocked depending on which emotions we use to amplify our abilities to achieve our goals. So a Dark Lord of the Sith a.l.a. Palpatine in Star Wars would correspond to a brilliant and ruthless dictator solidifying the powers of his mind with the belief in the superiority of his people, and tapping into his baser emotions of arrogance, egotism, brutality to give him the strength to overthrow his government and start a war. The source of his power isn't a greater spirit that exists per se, rather it's his own ego and self-made beliefs. On the other hand, a wise Jedi Master like Kenobi who manages to become "One with the Force" would correspond to a saintly individual who sacrificed all their material pursuits to serve the will of the Deity, and did so to such a degree that they were capable of tapping into the "Holy Spirit" to change their greedy instincts into genuine selflessness and become directed entirely by the "Will of God", someone entirely unconcerned with this world and occupied with preparing others for a greater one to come. This change in the individual's nature would be like Obi-Wan becoming One with the Force, or a pious individual being reborn in faith. Ultimately, most Jedi probably fall into the lot of "strugglers" as opposed to actual servants of the Light side which is why they ultimately fall to the Sith's manipulations.
So ultimately, rather than seeing the light and dark sides of the Force as opposite aspects of one greater power, like say oil and water in a cup, I see the Force as a representation of the power of the human spirit, and the dark and light side's as different ways to realize that power. The light side itself is a greater power that leads to enlightenment and transcendence, and the Dark side is a path to greater material power that ultimately leads to abasement and regret.
Fascinating!
I always thought The Force was more akin to the Dao, from Chinese philosophy. Some could say Zen too, but Zen itself was heavily influenced by Daoist ideas. Love your videos btw. I do have a bit of a wrench for you... if the trait of being Force Sensitive is not one that is passed down... then why does Qui Gon Jinn ask Shmi who Anakin's father is? I think that maybe lends itself to that the ability can be passed down. Maybe it doesn't happen often, that part is unclear, but if it was unheard of, why would Qui Gon ask?
*"The terminology of "Expanded Universe" was a careful one; it expanded on the world created in the core stories, but was never officially meant to be Star Wars canon, according to the Maker himself, George Lucas."*
~ Dave Filoni 2017
Its amazing how much more interesting the fan theories are than what has been made!
You should definitely check out Process Philosophy, a la Whitehead and John Cobb, and particularly their concept of the Primordial and Consequent natures of God. And particularly how Process Philosophy has been developed by thinkers like Catherine Keller. (And don't be scared off by the word "theology," which in contemporary philosophy merely means the study of ultimate concerns.)
Relatedly, it might be worth your time, if you're interested, to check out thinkers like Ibn 'Arabi, Nagarjuna, Mulla Sandra, and the cosmological speculations of the Noe-Confucians. All of which is to say that the concept of the Force and how it is being described does actually have a pretty clear pedigree in Earth-bound religious philosophy.
Thank you for the recommendations. Much appreciated. I very much want to expand my knowledge of the ideas and philosophies behind Star Wars and the idea of the Force and plan on checking these out.
Great video! Your suggestion that living beings and their emotions leave impressions onto the force, and how this could create the different sides sounds like a very interesting idea, explaining many things. And the point about how the Cosmic and Living force exchange energy whenever someone dies or is born, and how that relates to being born a child of the force, was great too.
One thing I disagree with: You said that the voice Rey heard in the duel was Snoke. From the context around that line I think that's wrong, it was her own emotions. I don't think Rey is a pure "child of the light" as you say, I think she has both dark and light in her, and that voice was her dark emotions translated into words. That was clearly an internal struggle, not an external one, as she told herself how quick and easy it would be while her lighter emotions caused her to recoil from the thought.
It could very well be that Rey is a combination of dark and light, and that the voice she heard was her own. It's really hard to know for sure one way or another knowing so little about her... but I certainly think she was either tapping into the dark side at the end against Kylo Ren, or on the verge of it.
I definitely think she could have accidentally ended up tapping into some of it.
However on the original topic, I find it really interesting how people's emotions can leave residual energy in the force. Could this explain what happened with Rey's force vision, or with the Vader's mask "show me again the power of the darkness" line? Could it explain what happened with the sith mask in Empire's End?
I certainly think it could all be connected. That, as I say in the video, life leaves an imprint or residue on the Force--for good or bad. Vader's mask shows Ben/Kylo a vision of the dark side's power because it was worn by Anakin when he was with the dark side... while the saber shows Rey a different kind of vision because it was wielded by Anakin on the light and also by Luke.
I think (and hope) we're going to get some cool revelations in The Last Jedi about how the Force works. Not the whole story, obviously, but far more than we've gotten so far. I think they're going to more or less establish a baseline on how things in the Star Wars Universe work so that there will be consistency in the story telling going forward.
Very interesting video, with many interesting ideas about the force and the possible storyline of the sequel trilogy. Thank you for sharing!
Perhaps if Rey and Ben Solo survive the sequel trilogy, it could be Ben's livelong quest to guard Rey, and Rey's quest could be to guard him.
That's a very interesting idea you're on to about guarding each other, though maybe Rey's real purpose is to guard and protect the newest coming of the Chosen One, that being Ben? I don't know, but I think you may be on to something here...
Great, great video Thor. Keep up the good work.
Love that a lot of your videos are thought-provoking.
Just one question. If the Jedi were not making the force unbalanced than why did Anakin destroy them before destroying the Sith? Was it because of the Jedi's unbalanced union with the republic or something else?
The Jedi, when acting as they should (servants of the will of the Force, wielding the light side to maintain balance) do not cause imbalance. But when they lost their way, and worried too much about politics, and became just a tool of the Republic, then they did cause imbalance.
Look at Qui-Gon Jinn. He was probably the most 'Jedi' like character we saw in the prequels, and he wasn't on the Council simply because he didn't follow all the rules that were bogging down the rest of the Jedi. He remained true to serving the Will of the Force and for it he was more like an outsider.
Thank tou
*"There is no more clear illustration of the difference between the Expanded Universe and the Star Wars created by George Lucas. The EU is a well of ideas, and there's what's on screen. They don't live in the same universe. Everyone wants to think so, I know… We just need to think of it all as a creative collection of fun ideas separate from what George Lucas has made."*
~ Dave Filoni 2012
Great video once again. I have thought of some of these things before, like the lineage (after shmi) being the chosen one's for example, but it's cool to hear you expand upon what these things would then mean/could mean.im also glad you explained the balance for people in a way that hopefully everyone can grasp- it's actually staggering how many people think the balance has to do with equal number of sith and Jedi- and I've heard such ridiculous theories stemming from said misunderstanding of the balance. I wonder if the skywalker lineage's force sensitivity truly would stop once the force was balanced . It's a good theory and makes sense.
It is probably the biggest misconception in Star Wars that 'balance' is equal parts light and dark (or Sith and Jedi). And don't get me wrong, I can certainly understand how and why people think that way... it's not like it's ever been explained anywhere in the Star Wars cannon.... but rather has only been spoken about by George Lucas himself.
Another home run Thor! Great Video man!!
Thank you so very much (and please give Odin another treat for me)
Thor,
by far you craft the best thought provoking videos on the topic of Star Wars! :)
Thank you for saying that, and thank you for watching.
another brilliant installment by you Thor...i dont even know where to begin... i'll be back after i watch it again (i also have meetings from 9-noon, so i wanted to crowbar this in 5 min before 9am)...
It's all good, I have to work today too so I look forward to reading more of what you have to say about it later when I get home.
next video should be you're favorite lightsaber duels top 5 or 10 mine are -
1 . anakin vs obiwan
2. luke vs vader rotj
3. obi vs maul episode 1
4. ahsoka vs vader
5 . rey vs kylo
im very curious about your list
I like your list... and I won't comment on mine because I think that is a good idea for a future video.
TrilogyBro I liked Sidious vs Maul and Savage! When he killed Savage! Darth Sidious was so awesome in that match, he was laughing the whole time!!
That was an amazing fight. Easily the best in Clone Wars and one of my favorites of all time.
asaaj and kenobi vs oppress and maul was good too....and pre viszla vs maul was good also
I love all your ideas, even if I don't agree with some, like your idea that the Force simply exists, not a fan of that one, but I see where that's coming from
I also wish there was a better idea for how Force came into being... but like I said in the video, if something created the Force, that means there'd have to be something more powerful than it, and I just think there shouldn't be anything greater than the Force in the Star Wars Universe.
Thor Skywalker i agree with that, in the Star Wars universe The Force is the greatest thing, it is at the top of everything, like you said It's kinda like God, and with religions that follow God there isn't someone or something greater than God, God has always been there and always will be, in those religions i mean, and so like God, The Force has always been there and always will be there
I agree with almost everything. I think that the energy is recycled into the Cosmic Force, but that the pure intelligence is retained in the universe. Force Ghosts could be people who could keep the energy in our universe (or at least be able to commune in Qui Gon's case).
Very good video. I never understood why people hated the Midichlorians so much. It simply changed the way they TALKED about the force unlike the current trilogy which has made huge changes to the very concept. Midichlorians could simply be a cultural clue of how well to do societies tend to become more humanistic and rational...and in dark times people become more spiritual. So in the prequels..there's this sciency talk of Midichlorians...and during the times of the STATIC and STERILE Empire that talk became more spiritual.
Awesome video! I agree with almost everything that was said in this video and I think you presented it in a very informative and clear way.
There is also a video by the 'Urban Acolyte' channel that explains a lot of things about how the Force works in the SW universe (and it's been praised by Pablo hidalgo himself so it has some validity). It's called "How the Force Works in Star Wars".
So I enjoyed most if your theory-crafting, I think you miss several key points: #1 - The Whills. Who are they? How do they connect to the Cosmic or Living Force? The original title for Star Wars (A New Hope) was Journal of the Whills: the Adventures of Luke Starkiller. The Whills have been mentioned in Canon both in the Rebels series and in Rogue 1. To not mention them or at least include them within your theory, to me, is an issue. #2 There are other force using groups other than the Jedi and the Sith (mentioned in Cannon). The Witches of Dathormir, The Inquisitor Squad, that fact that most Sith works in groups of 3 despite the proclaimed "Rule of 2" with the apprentice of the Master taking on their own apprentice. (ie ventriss, vader recruiting Luke, Sidious having Tyranus in line right after Maul dies, implying he was also being groomed, etc). So how do these other groups help the balance of the Force? If i=anything they would cause an even greater imbalance, so while the movies (an more especially the sequel trilogy) make an issue focusing on Rey and Kylo being the balancing factor, they ignore they other force using groups within the balance equation. #3 I don't believe Jakku was a light side bastion. as it states in the Aftermath Series. Sidious set up the station in akku because it was strong in the force and he eventually turned it into a Dark Side place. It has also been stated that Dagobah and Tatooine had strong Dark Side presences which was why Yoda and Obi-wan were able to hide there, not because they were strong in the Light side, but the opposite, they were strong in the dark side and so this masked their presences from the Emperor and Vader.
FANTASTIC
This is before Disney took over, but the Force is conscious because it does have a Will as explored in the KOTOR series, especially KOTOR 2. I don't know if that's still canon or if the Will of the Force was mentioned at all in the movies, but as a concept, the Force is/was conscious.
Hey - love the content, keep it up! :)
Do you think that the dark/light powers of the force, is split between the users of said 'school' or do they 'carry around' their own stach of energy to be used in combat or other things?
So when Bane instilled the rule of two, those two Sith would be way more powerfull, as there were so many less to share the dark side with. This could also be a factor, as to why Vapad was so powerfull in prequal years.
I'd love to hear any-one's thought :)
I enjoy most thing but I am not sure there really is a light and dark side of the force per se. As you said in the beginning - The force is The Force and comes out of every living being (for the living force) or dead thing (for the dead force) and its up to the force sencitive beings to use the living force in the matter they choose. Some choose to be light, some choose to be dark while others choose to be something else - Like Bendu. One can argue that it is that who in the end create Sith and Jedi - Not the force itself. And maybe thats the change of perspective on the SW universe our friends at Disney is about to release in ep VIII? That the force are so much more than light and dark? Johan.
Great video! One thing that comes to mind when I hear about keeping balance within the Force is the ending of the Matrix trilogy where Neo lets Agent Smith kill him, and thus brings balance to their world.
But anyway. I agree with what you say in the video on a lot of topics and believe that the Jedi and Sith are just two different religions of the Force...two extreme differences. In agreeing with the living and non-living Force, I do believe that the non-living Force is comprised of what is and what was, like you said. But, I do think the Force is neither light nor dark, it just is. I think that people could be open to hearing the Force, but block it out as they just don't believe in it. Like Han said: "mumbo-jumbo". The Jedi and Sith were just two extreme religions of the Force and we're about to be introduced "on screen" to another: The Grey. I believe that Snoke is more of a Dark Grey, whereas Sidious was a Sith Lord.
Which leads me to one question about the "kill him" line in the Novel, which is pretty interesting.
"Kill him," a voice inside her head said. It was amorphous, unidentifiable, raw. Pure vengeful emotion. So easy, she told herself. So quick.
She recoiled from it. From the dark side."
I would speculate that this line would have closer ties to Sidious than Snoke. Even though we haven't seen a lot of Snoke, he didn't seem to fit this character that's laid out in the phrase and I really couldn't picture him saying those words. We do hear Sidious say those exact words at the beginning of ROTS:
Palpatine Voice: "Kill him. Kill him now"
Sidious Voice: "Do it!"
Where Rey, Kylo, and Finn end up is really interesting, especially if Disney decides to make another Trilogy after this one.
I agree with you that at some point in The Last Jedi we're finally going to hear the gray mentioned in a movie. It seems clear this is going to be a big part of Disney's Star Wars going forward, and it makes sense because--as you point out--the Jedi and Sith were the two extremes. It only makes sense there would be those who find themselves more in the middle.
You're also right about that line "kill him", that does sound exactly like something Sidious would say. I'm also so very curious to see how this all plays out... and you know at some point there will be another trilogy after this one. The only question is when... I'd guess it may be some time, something like ten years... but who knows for sure?
*"I didn't have any direct contact with George about Star Wars. - I would see some notes based on the interviews or the meetings. But I did not have direct contact with George about Star Wars continuity."*
~ Leland Chee 2018
Yo dawg....real talk? You got da fuck DOWN on this one! I'm subscribing!
"The dual universe question comes up often. *I know George Lucas has mentioned it being two universes* , but that’s not how I see it. His vision is definitely not beholden to ours, but ours is definitely beholden to his."
~ Leland Chee 2012
They're not going to sacrifice her, no way. You need to remember it's not just about the story, but also the movie industry and making money. They will keep her alive so they can make future generations for later star wars. ;)
Granted, I might be off on her having to sacrifice herself.... but I wouldn't be that shocked if she doesn't come out of this trilogy alive. I just have a feeling something is going to happen, in either Episode VIII or IX that no one expects or sees coming.... though I certainly get your point about wanting to make more money off her in the future
Good thoughts, clarity and Thor......I am hoping as Thor has said in a previous video that Episode 9 ends in Ben Solo redeemed and that he saves Rey by sacrificing himself. That would be a better storyline I think, and it nicely mirrors other themes and ties things together for me. And I love Rey's character and the costume/actor is so well done--very much like the original Luke, which is the essence of Star Wars I believe. Oh and she is not too bad to look at either. Seriously, it would also be interesting if Rey led us into the next trilogy the same way Luke has done for episode 7-9. Since Luke will most likely have made his exit by then. Maybe this is too predictable, and I agree Disney has shown signs of departing from the predictable. I really think they keep her alive. Of course, we will have more to go on soon. If, for lack of a better word, an "interesting" character or two emerges in episode 8 or 9, that could speed up the departure of Rey, I suppose. Though I hope she stays! Long live Rey!
ER, There is one problem here. The Force does have a Will of its own. That's been stated numerous Times in Star Wars.
I do Think The Force is basically God, and Lucas himself said this was his intention. I also note that, unlike how Christianity is understoo in pop culture, there are Christians who would see the Force work the same way God is understood to by them. I'd say the actual situation is the Force is basically how God is understood by the peopel in The Star Wars Galaxy, like how C.S. Lewis said God could be seen in different cultures and Religions. (And he was by no means the first to say this.) It's just their cultural expression of God and their way to understand him.
"Who am I? One name you might have for me is The World, or you might call me The Universe, or perhaps God, or perhaps the Truth. I am all and I am one, so of course this also means that I am you." Truth, Fullmetal Alchemist
Midi-chlorians sounds and seems to have evolved like the Mitochondria.
the Skywalker twins weren't the only instance of force sensitivity being passed down. starkillers father was a Jedi. also when qui gon found out about Anakin's connection to the force, his first question was, who was his father. implying that they understood that it is passed down, to some degree or another.
You do bring up a very interesting point about Qui-Gon inquiring about Anakin's father.
I agree with your analysis of the force theory. I do think you missed one vital piece of information as to why the Skywalkers are so strong with the force. The Skywalkers have families and children where other Jedi have been denied that right. Jedi are not supposed to have families because the possibility of loss and pain could lead them to the dark side.
If I heard you correctly, you said The Force is not like any idea we have on earth. It is very similar (almost identical) to the Tao.
”The novels and comic books are other authors' interpretations of my creation.
Sometimes, I tell them what they can and cant do, but I just don't have the time to read them. *They're not my vision of what Star Wars is."*
~ George Lucas 2004
best hypothesis yet.
☆♡☆♡☆♡☆
"Understand, that the *Holocron's primary purpose is to keep track of Star Wars continuity for Lucas Licensing* , and to some degree Lucas Online. To my knowledge, it is only *rarely used for production purposes."*
~ Leland Chee 2005/6
Great Video
Thanks for the Five Star rating, that's means a lot because I put a lot into this video and wasn't sure how much people would enjoy it. I love the idea that the Force is 'learning' from the life that it created, and vice versa. Anyway, I think you bring up a lot of very interesting ideas here. As I said to the other person you mentioned, I think there is a chance Han & Leia had another child and that maybe in some way Ben was responsible for their death (or it seemed like he was) and that was what finally got him sent away to Luke and why they thought there was 'too much Vader in him'. Maybe Snoke manipulated the whole thing to make it look like it was his fault... but it really wasn't? As you point out, we know Snoke has been watching Ben Solo from the very start of his life.
I also really like the idea that Rey was born as a result of the other child's death. Almost like she is the reincarnation of this child sent back to help Ben Solo balance the Force once and for all.
Only one problem I noticed... you said Rey was born on Jakku. However, we don't yet know where Rey was born and I'm guessing it wasn't Jakku. Granted, she may have been born there, but right now we don't have any information on that. Also, if she was born there, I'm sure her family would have had a place to live. Why wouldn't they leave that place to her when they left? I mean the AT-AT is Rey's place that she made her own. I just don't think she was born Jakku is all and we don't have enough information on it yet either way...
The way I see how Rey could be that powerful with next to no actual training - especially in lightsaber combat - is she channelled the Force, and for one of lightsaber combat is designed around channelling the Force.
:D At 4:49 I just thougt about Han in Force Awakens: "That's not how the force works"
lol, that's kinda what I was going for there.
I still think that equal parts light and dark is the way to go. Because what you're saying is that the Jedi are grey and they're obviously not. And if the light side controls everything then that's not really balance.
"The act of living generates a force field, an energy. That energy surrounds us; when we die, that energy joins with all the other energy. *There is a giant mass of energy in the universe that has a good side and a bad side.* We are part of the Force because we generate the power that makes the Force live. When we die, we become part of that Force, so we never really die; we continue as part of the Force." ~ *George Lucas* during a production meeting for The Empire Strikes Back
I agree ... I've had similar thoughts on this also...nice how you have weaved it together in a harmonious way very Greek tragedy like. This is the human psyche and mythos of our belief systems!!!The light the dark and grey. The left the right and middle. The liberal the conservative and libertarian. The democrat the republican and independent. The Jedi the Sith and bogon!
*"The Father was a powerful Force wielder who resided in the realm of Mortis. His children, the Daughter and the Son, represented the light side and the dark side of the Force, respectively. Balance was maintained between them by the Father until his failing health compelled him to search for a successor."*
*Balance between his children.* .. They don't even exist in the Star Wars universe, its another dimension.
4:47 Han to FInn: That's not how the Force works!
Mind blown.
I'm going with option 3, lol. I liked the first half though.
Could be Lothal a Nexus too? there is/was a Jedi temple there....
What if balance isn't about the Force attending a permanent state of neutrality? What if like planets the light and the dark are supposed to take their turn in a never-ending cycle? There is light during the day and then as the day ends darkness rises for the night. What if it just keeps on in that cycle forever? What if that is what bringing balance is? What if The chosen one had to end the day so that night could come at the same time he had to put away the night so that the day could come again?
I don't agree with all of this, but some good information was brought up.
Everything is made of energy - study the Laws of Nature. "It's the energy between all things..."
Balance is equality in terms of how most people think of it, but you can be "balanced" and do nothing or be neutral - or do everything (which I see as purposeful and conscious). It's not what you use, but how you use it. I think the Grey "side" is defined more like balance - an equal influence of dark and light, but the difference between *grey* and *balance* is purpose, which in turn creates the symphony of knowing when to use the dark and light for a greater good, or progress.
Everything has a frequency, or vibration; from space, (which most people think of as empty) to something as complex as a human being, having multiple frequencies or vibrations in itself. Even rocks have certain frequencies, depending on what they're made of, and even then you can cut and polish a rock to give it a little different frequency. "I don't like sand. It's coarse and gets everywhere." Not every frequency resonates with something else or someone else the same.
The balance Anakin was supposed to bring was more like a symphony between the dark and the light. "Life. Death and decay, which brings new life". I really don't think there is any other explanation that can come from balance when you start talking about, or believing that the darkness and light are separate. "That Force does not belong to the Jedi. To say that if the Jedi die, the light dies is Vanity".
If the dark side power from the unknown regions knew Vader was made to bring balance, it most likely knows everyone who is that. So why did Snoke, who joined with that dark side power, choose Ben to be his apprentice although he is a Skywalker, which means he is made to bring balance to the force.
What if Darth Sidious actually made direct contact with "the dark side power from the unknown regions"? Now that would be an interesting video.
I do wonder if something like that happen... or how much he really knew about whatever the dark side power is out there.
That would be really interesting to find out! It could explain Snoke. Right now The Farce Awakens is my least favorite Star Wars movie. But I have high hopes for The Last Jedi. Maybe that's where Luke has been. Stomping the guts out of the "the dark side power from the unknown regions". There might still be hope...
I think in the end Kylo will return to the light, Rey will be tempted to the dark by Snoke but ultimately will join Ben in defeating Snoke and all 3 of them will die, bringing true balance. Disney will then be free of the Skywalker and still leave it open to more light/dark battles in future trilogies.
That would work: the cancer of the dark side has coalesced into one entity that can now be destroyed in order to rid the Galaxy of said cancer. And Ben will finish what Vader started by bringing balance to the force. But Rey is influenced if not created by the light so she shouldn't have to die to bring balance bc the Jedi, while working with the force, were not a threat to the cosmic force, only the sith. correct?
I never thought of it like that... Rey being a creation of the Light and the Dark Side Force power choosing someone to embody. Still, who is Snoke? Personally, I think he's the Grand Inquisitor! Rey v. Grand Inquisitor Snoke 😉
Watch David Carradine's Kung Fu, it implies a lot of same philosophies.
the force by definition is life ..
Yes, I agree... but life is made of energy. I think of what Yoda said of the Force in ESB: "Life creates it. Makes it grow. It's energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings we are, not this crude matter."
your soooooo right. lol. how the residual feelings or people or life force good or bad built up to either and constantly are
The Force can never be in balance as long as beings exist. So there must always be a chosen one.
Study Taoism and you'll see the force is essentially based on the Tao (the way) & Qi (the force). I thought everybody knew this 'til I watched this video & read some of the comments. (see www.chinadaily.com.cn/opinion/2015-12/24/content_22792319.htm for a more indepth thought process about it)
As for having to reconcile the fact we don't have the force in our galaxy, it's very easy to do. I can think of 2 ways to do it --
1. They have midichlorians living in their galaxy but we just don't have any living here, or at least we don't appear to have any in our little piece of the galaxy. Therefore we simply don't have any force sensitive people here that we're aware of, but that doesn't mean the force isn't in our galaxy too. We're just out of touch with it.
2. You could also tie this back to Taoism. Perhaps Taoism originated from earthlings who were force sensitives as they studied the force. Of course, if there are force sensitives here on our planet, it raises an obvious question -- why don't we know about them? Easy answer is -- many of the beings in the Star Wars galaxy don't believe in the force or they think the force is just a myth. So why can't it be that way here too? Perhaps most of us are like a young Han Solo and just don't realize it's here and real 'cause we haven't had contact with someone who can use it or anything. Even Rey was surprised to learn that Luke Skywalker wasn't a myth and that the force was a real thing, and she was force sensitive!
First, I love you answers on how the Star Wars galaxy could very well be in our own. Great explanations. I also agree Taosim was likely the original inspiration for George Lucas when he created the Force. However, and I don't mean to create an argument or debate here, but I feel like the Force should have it's own explanation entirely--separate, at least in some respects, from any beliefs we hold here on our world. Similar to Taosim is fine, but it needs to be its own distinct thing, that works differently so that they are free to take the story (and the Force itself) in whatever direction they, as storytellers, desire.
Thanks. & I see what you're thinking now about the force. I like that idea. Interested to see where that could go.
The force has many similarities with Hindu Mysticism: the Upanishads and the Vedas. These have absolutely influenced Lucas in his original ideas.
Great video, great theory, but after all I think Rey is Skywalker.
I vote instead of gray we call it the equinox
if there were a book, then it would be in a vault at Skywalker Ranch
I think a major problem with Star Wars is that they do indeed make it up as they go along, which leads to plot holes and inconsistencies with the story. I believe George Lucas present us with very basic ideas of good and evil and a lot of us look for deeper meaning behind what's given to us. Don't get me wrong I love Star Wars and debating about the theories and so on but George Lucas wasn't even the one to develop the deeper and more interesting aspects and scope of the stories. The Star Wars novels and expanded universe are by far much more interesting than anything the movies ever gave us. Sure they present the basic ideas, but it's the novels that are written by people other than George Lucas that give us a better understanding of that whole universe. Look at how blatantly sloppy and inaccurate the prequels were given to us, yes they were ok but were expected by its fans to be much more comprehensive and emotionally driven. Honestly and it pains me to say this but I believe we look for clues and/or connections to things that aren't there but are added as an after thought to appease us and make money. Hopefully Disney will not make this same mistake with lazily handling the stories and characters and leaving it up to others to develop the more interesting back story as Lucas did.I believe the team of writers and actors they use for their stories will be more adequately used. I also dare to say that if Lucas did actually get the chance to make Ep.7 it wouldn't have been as well made as the Ep.7 we got from Disney
Actually the origins of the force is being gotten into which includes the bendu not sure if u have been watching rebels
I love Rebels, and you're right the Bendu has been giving us precious new info about the Force. I hope he comes back in Season 4.
Recycled energy confirms reincarnation theory "it IS you" means Kylo knows Anakin has been reincarnated.
There's nothing to say that Force Ghosts can't come back from the cosmic Force....
If the jedi, sith et al can't figure it out in it's entierty (and they can't) why should we?
Because it's an innate drive that we all share.
So the force is just a guy who's trying to get the right amount of sauce on his chips
0:00 "It's heroin" -/Qui Gon Jinn in Auralnauts' SW.
*"I keep getting asked about 'Grey Jedi'. What is that? Like an Irish Monk?"*
~ Pablo Hidalgo,[Lucasfilm Story Group] 2016
ibb.co/TL3QbSC
Also, Rey is a 'chaneller' of the Force.
And what goes in the blank timeline spaces of the Film Only universe - can we never know the history or background of that Star Wars universe like we can in the EU Star Wars universe?
*"Nothing. That's why it's film only."* [Two continuities, 2 universes.]]
~ Leland Chee, 2007 - ibb.co/3dBN7Sw
I think they should go with the Skywalkers being a Falsely Created Obomination NOT the Chosen One(s) AND the true Chosen One IS REY....or if they do stick with Anakin being the actual Chosen One, Rey is the lost Child of the Solos and who's disappearance was the cause of the breakup of the family...
That is an interesting thought, that the Skywalkers weren't the Chosen one(s) all along, but rather Rey would turn out to be.
I've been hoping that's the way they'll play it, as if she was The Awakening of the ACTUAL FORCE itself (ie.: THE CHOSEN ONE), as Snoke referred to. They WILL insert a major twist somewhere (as in respect to Vader being Lukes Father in the originals). However, I'm STILL waiting for some ideas on WHAT happened to the Solos to break up the family. It was obvious SOMETHING happened which caused Han to split and Ben to be sent to Luke (although it was never mentioned further AND EVERYONE seems to have overlooked it!)....could have been the "loosing" of a younger child???....that would be cool as well...Thoughts??
I am so very curious to know what happen that finally sent Han & Leia over the edge, and made them send Ben away to be trained by Luke. It seems clear that they initially didn't want him to be trained (or he would've been sent at a younger age) but I'd have to imagine something he did let them see 'too much Vader in him' and changed their minds and they sent him away. Obviously, I think that same tragedy is what split the family apart. There are even references to 'something' happening in the book Bloodline.
Honestly, it wouldn't shock me at all if (perhaps indirectly) Ben Solo was responsible for the death of a younger sibling. That would certainly be a tragedy that could tear a family apart and force the hand of parents to send their son away. Now do I think that younger sibling will turn out to be Rey? Probably not... but only because it would be too difficult to explain why they thought she'd died... and how she then ended up alive and on Jakku.
Unless it was a sneaky set up involving the seduction of Ben, in which he was supposed to kill her to show his loyalty and devotion to his new master (like Anakin with the Jedi Temple) BUT HE FAKED IT....because Ben didn't have the heart(lessness) to do it AND dumped her (or someone was chartered to) on SOME planet hoping it would never come up again. Hence his fright and concern with the "WHAT GIRL?!" lines...
Damn, that's actually a pretty good theory right there. Snoke demands something that show Ben's conviction... he fakes his sister's death and has her dumped on some random planet because he can't kill her... and gets nervous when he hears about a girl on Jakku.
it all started when some guy invented midichlorians in his basement
There is a zero percent chance Lucas has a force Bible hidden away. He clearly writes from the hip.
You're probably right... but I'd love to read it if he did.
I don't know if I would. I'd be curious yes but let's face it Lucas is not a great storyteller. I don't think he ever had a consistent concept of exactly what the force is and how it works. Mostly I suspect it was a story excuse - he wanted a sci-fi version of chi. Jedi clearly are inspired by wuxia literature. The runaway success of Star Wars leads people to ask questions about details in the plot that I doubt Lucas ever considered. Imagine if some other medium-budget popcorn movie had such success. People would be asking the same questions to screenwriters who just put stuff in there for convenience or because it was cool.
I think Snoke's the brother
The qi (or chi, ki) is a cosmic force in asian culture and is pretty much like the Force.
AAAAAND none of it matters. Episode 9. The end.
Rey wasn't born on Jakku.
The Dao
The FORCE needed money so it created episode 7......
"...only it's absolutely nothing like any god of any religion we believe in here in our world."
Not entirely accurate. The Force is basically The All / The One / The Absolute in Hermeticism and Neoplatonism, the eternal Tao in Taoism, or Brahman in Vedism and Hinduism. Some people do use those terms and "god" interchangeably.
"While All is in The All, it is equally true that The All is in All."
For Plotinus, the first principle of reality is "the One", an utterly simple, ineffable, unknowable subsistence which is both the creative source and the teleological end of all existing things. Although, properly speaking, there is no name appropriate for the first principle, the most adequate names are "the One" or "the Good". The One is so simple that it cannot even be said to exist or to be a being. Rather, the creative principle of all things is beyond being, a notion which is derived from Book VI of the Republic, when, in the course of his famous analogy of the sun, Plato says that the Good is beyond being (ἐπέκεινα τῆς οὐσίας) in power and dignity.