I'll be at work all day so won't be able to read and respond to comments till later tonight. Also, I'll be doing my "Let's Talk Some Star Wars" video will be up tomorrow and will delve into what you all had to say about Rey being a role model... and a lot of you had some great things to say that I look forward to sharing.
Hey Thor do you follow football if so who do you like. I'm a pats fan...I was born in Massachusetts and I live in Connecticut so I'm hoping my son likes the pats when he gets older if not its ok as well. But I do hope my son becomes a fan of the Sith
Thor Skywalker In George’s description Anakin chose the wrong path and went to the darkside and became Vader, before finally, bringing balance to the force and saving the galaxy as the Chosen one was destined to. So in a way in the true G-Canon Anakin was corrupted, went evil and redeemed himself by doing what he was meant to . So what that means is that Anakin failed in Revenge of the Sith and was manipulated but got back up and became the hero he was meant to be. This could mean that in revenge of the Sith Anakin was never meant to turn to the darkside but help the Jedi defeat him and see the era in their ways like you mentioned . At least it’s a possibility. In the end in George’s story Anakin would bring balance after redemption and showing that he could be saved by the light. Selflessness over Selfishness. In Legends Canon everything was meant to happen the way it did because the force was punishing the Jedi and the Sith for not following its own will and using it for the Republic and false sense of Justice like politics at the time so it spawned its chosen one to slay the Jedi and Sith to show them that the force should never be used for false reasons and that when Anakin was bringing balance in Legends continuity he was doing it for the balance between the Jedi and Sith to create a type of gray, this is all different reasoning considering it is Legends at least in George Lucas’s story the balance is between life and death I believe.
I believe Qui-gon was supposed to train Anakins to save the Jedi. But after his death, plan b was just wipe out all the sith and jedi and start agaim with a clean slate.
This may be prideful, but I still really like my thoughts on "The Chosen One" and that he was destined to destroy what the Jedi became and reset the balance with the Order itself. I believe that the Chosen One was set forth to bring balance to the Jedi Order, _not_ to destroy the Sith. After the Great Jedi and Sith Wars, the Jedi Order fractured and some believed that an allegiance with the Republic would prevent the Sith, or another Dark Side entity, from rising again while others were set to follow the Will of the Force alone. An allegiance to the Republic, as seen by certain Ancient Jedi, would cause the Order to loose their connection to the Force. The Ancient Jedi's strong connection to the Force allowed a stronger Jedi to have visions of the future and in this, they saw The Chosen One bring balance to the Order. Could they also have seen Jinn training this returning Jedi as well? I say this because *_if_* the Jedi were pure like the Ancient Jedi were, then they would've sensed the re-surging Sith long before Palpatine would've gained any true power. We first see the Jedi's diminished connection in Ep I where Ki-Adi-Mundi and Windu say: Ki-Adi-Mundi: "Impossible! The Sith are extinct! They have been for nearly a millennium." Windu: "Agreed. The Sith would not have returned without us sensing it." I find it interesting that Jinn is perceived as having a unique outlook on the Jedi Order as if he follows the ancient ways over the will of the council. Again, in Ep I, we hear: Kenobi: "Don't defy the council, Master, not again." Jinn: "I will do what I must, Obi-Wan." So, I do believe your theory that it was Jinn who was to train The Chosen One and not Kenobi. Jinn had a sense of the original intent of the Order and that it followed the Will of the Force and that alone. We hear him say, in Ep I: Jinn to Queen Amadala: "I can only protect you, I can't fight a war for you." So, did Anakin's training take a turn for the worst with Kenobi and his seemingly favorable view of the council? Various quotes from Kenobi in Ep II and III show that he strongly favored the council and its will, which was opposite of his Master. Ultimately, in Ep III, Kenobi sides with the notion that Anakin was set to Destroy the Sith. In Ep III, we hear Kenobi say: Kenobi: "With all due respect, Master, is he not the Chosen One? Is he not to destroy the Sith and bring balance to the Force?" Yoda responds with: Yoda: "A prophecy, that misread, could have been." Could Yoda finally be realizing the true purpose of the Chosen One and that it wasn't to destroy the Sith, but bring balance to the Order? If the balance with the Order was restored and their connection to the Force rekindled, then the Order themselves could've stopped the Sith. But, finally, we have the biggest clue as to "Why Kenobi wasn't meant to train Anakin" is his line at the end of Ep III: Kenobi: "Anakin, my allegiance is to the Republic, to democracy!" Look at who Kenobi's allegiance is too. It's *_not_* to the Force, but it's to the Republic and look at what happened as a result. So, the Prophecy was fulfilled, but the Republic was destroyed in the process and decades of a tyrannical reign ensued.
Jinn to Queen Amadala: "I can only protect you, I can't fight a war for you." Luke to Leia: "I can't save you". And indeed, he is not fighting a war for Leia. But he protects her, Is that not interesting?
Joden Thorne Um....sure. The Jedi have diminished powers and have become arrogant, which is confirmed in the prequels. Yoda, during Ep II I believe, stated that arrogance is a growing trait of the Jedi. Also in Ep II, Windu believes it's time to inform the Senate that the Jedi's ability to use the Force has diminished. To a great extent, this is why Jinn is so different than the other Jedi and are at odds with the council numerous times. So, the Jedi have closed their minds to the Force with the strengthening attachment to the Republic.
kreia: “I hate the Force. I hate that it seems to have a will, that it would control us to achieve some measure of balance, when countless lives are lost.”
Qui-gon wasn't killed by Darth Maul. Episodes 2-9 are force visions that he has while meditating during the Maul duel. At the very end of Episode 9 he will come out of the meditation, shout "NOPE, NOT HAPPENING" and go kill child Anakin to stop that version of the future from happening. We then get a whole new set of movies starting a few years before the Clone Wars in this new real time line that isn't a force vision.
This video really makes me appreciate just how influential Qui-Gons death is. And it is such a shame that things didn't go the way the Force had planned. Gosh darn the Sith Lol. :)
Luke Skywalker the 2nd but to quote Obi-Wan... well kind of quote “I thought I could teach Vader just as YODA... instructed me. I was wrong”. Why does Qui-Gon exist????
They arent cannon to me. I wish we could at least get legends and cannon films. Like an Imperial Remnant Trilogy for legends after the ST ends (with Thrawn only in a cutscene of the first film, a rising threat in the second who starts to take control of the Empire, and the main villian in the third film.
I can’t believe Luke in TLJ saying “Now that they’re extinct, the Jedi are romanticised, deified. But if you strip away the myth and look at their deeds, the legacy of the Jedi is failure, hypocrisy, hubris.” (To which Rey replies “That’s not true!” Like she’d even know anyway.) Complete opposite of Luke from OT.
I don't think Dooku would have joined Qui-Gon in training Anakin. Qui-Gon respected Dooku as his Master, but they were not that close. They weren't friends. "It was a face he knew intimately, but he also knew, and had known for some time, that it was a face he did not love. At first this had bothered him -- until he realized he did not need to love his Master, merely learn from." Legacy of the Jedi, pg 98 "'I hear he is well,' Qui-Gon said. He was not in touch with his old Master. He had not expected to be. Their relationship had not been based on friendship. It had been one of teacher and student. It was natural that they should not be in each other's lives." Legacy of the Jedi, pg 111
Dooku also believes there is something fundamentally wrong with the republic/jedi and so leaves the order altogether after careful prodding from Sidious. Qui-Gon doesn't necessarily believe that the systems in power are wrong, he still wants to hold up the good, but Qui-Gon wants to change things within the republic
faithfully patient it was written by Jude Watson. Although it is a younger reader, it has a pretty good story overall. It goes through the apprenticeships of Dooku through Anakin. Overall it's a pretty easy read and had some good backstory building for Dooku.
I look at Anakin being made as simply the force making someone to fix the problem of the lack of balance, but not something the force planned out exactly what he would do. The force just made a powerful being like an anti-body but didn't plan out exactly what would happen with him.
@KingOne Fool. The Chosen One was supposed to destroy the Sith and bring balance to the force. Let's see, Anakin turns to the dark side and helps destroy the Jedi, then kills Sidious and dies, thus killing both Sith. The Sith have been destroyed and with only a few existing Jedi and the Sith destroyed but the dark side still existing, the force has been brought into balance. Anakin fulfilled the prophecy to the letter. However the Jedi misread the prophecy as Yoda suggests in Revenge of the Sith. Anakin was the Chosen One, as stated by George Lucas, and shown throughout the movies, and to say otherwise shows a lack of understanding of what's going on in the films.
I remember George Lucas saying in the Episode 3 behind the scenes that Vader did bring balance in the force by killing palpatine. So by that logic I'm guessing this was always the end result, with the journey up to that point being whatever it could be depending on what the characters did or as u said these stories went exactly as it should. Anyway Snoke is not a sith so maybe he doesn't necessarily affect the balance lol I don't know anymore
IMHO Yoda was right. After so many centuries there probably wasn't much he hadn't seen a dozen times. He objected repeatedly and Obi Wan defied him. Wasn't that why Obi Wan had to become a hermit to watch over Luke? Because he was responsible?
I imagine the force like a garden, where flora and weeds grow, and where the flora believes the balance can only come, when the weed is torn out. But the chosen one wants to not only root out the weed, he has a better idea. He roots out the weed and the flora, cuts the grass and the leaves and the bushes, to make space for a new and better garden, where he can plant his own seeds, to grow a better garden. Because even though the flora and bushes and trees are beautiful, they are a mess, and the chosen one wants a better garden than that. In this case, the seeds is the chosen one's children, who build a better garden from the ashes. Remember Anakin destroyed both the Jedi council and the sith, but he spawned a new generation of traditional jedi. I don't know if George Lucas ever thought of it this way, perhaps he intended for Anakin to fail, that's a good story too, but this is a bittersweet way of viewing the prophecy.
When Qui-Gon spoke of the prophecy, he NEVER mentioned: "and destroy the sith.". That was added in episode 2 by Obi-Wan, Yoda, and Mace Windu. Perhaps the prophecy was misread? This is simple. Lucasfilm has been pushing that the force is NOT limited to just Jedi or even Sith. The Force has its own will... so for it to have balance, it's much bigger than the perspective of the Jedi and Sith. #SELAH
Thanks for the vid. Lol! About Snoke! Luke in TLJ explaining about the Force was one of my more favourite scenes in the franchise. To me Luke had come to dislike the the Jedi, even the Jedi Order, which is one of the reasons he exiled himself to restore or make a new Order, and failed at that, labelling himself even more of a failure. I wish this was better portrayed in the films. All of Luke’s effort and his perceived failure. And the way he was explaining the Force to Rey, made sense to me. Balance is integral, just like night and day, birth and death, light and dark. If the “Chosen One” needed to bring balance to the Force, and the Chosen One was Anakin, he needed to restore the balance caused majorly by the Jedi Order had become corrupted and, more so by the Sith who were bending too much according to their own selfish will. That’s a lot for a little boy to do, in a Council who never believed in him in the first place. It ended with Obi-awan saying “Anakin, you were suppossed to destroy the Sith, not join them.” But that was not all that needed to be done. In all “Chosen One” stories, usually said Chosen One is not burdened by the responsibility of the task by himself or herself, especially against people who don’t believe or have faith in him or her, much less offer support. All these reasons is why Anakin is one of the greatest tragedies ever written, and I loved that so much time after, Anakin’s redemption came with Anakin saving Luke.
Yes, really liked this, Presentation again So true, I too had always seen it that way too, You explain it so well, how the force flows through the Jedi, And that Obi wan was too young to be training Annikin. But he felt such obligations to, AND imagine the amazing Jedi Obi wan could've become also, he may have had a amazing mission ahead of him also... But so it all goes when we carry on doing the same Ol same Ol patterns without letting wombs heal.. (For example, possibly if Yoda stepped up and trained him instead). Thank you for your video.🎁
There's a really interesting take on the prophecy in a fanfiction rewrite of ROTS by Veriform that I believe is what the Chosen One's ultimate fate is to be. "He will bring balance to the Force, but he shall no know peace. He will be a conduit to its Will, but he shall not know his own. Twice he will fall and twice be reborn, and the galaxy will shake at the rumor of his passage."
Given what has happened so far with the ST, I think it's safe to assume that Qui-Gon was meant to train Anakin, because if he wasn't, and that anyone could've rebuilt the Jedi Order, then Luke wouldn't have failed, but since he did, I think that speaks volumes about the importance of Qui-Gon and Anakin.
Nice Video, one thing I want to mention thou, I actually think Palpatine did know or at least expected Luke’s arrival on Endor. In one of the Aftermath book interludes we get a conversation between him and Gallius Rax. In this conversation he kind of mentions his possible death and future plan of the Empire. In my opinion this hints at knowing that Luke may come to him.
I disagree with you about Padmé not being a part of Anakin's life, I feel that once Anakin killed Sidious and saved the galaxy, he'd be at a loss for what to do with himself, Padmé would then reenter his life when he is 22/23, I picture them marrying still but when Anakin is 25 and Padmé 30, unlike canon which was a spur of the moment thing they'd date for a time and I have read fanfics from a guy where in his mind the force screams in rage when something bad happens to the Skywalker family, and approves the Skywalker good faith, Obi Wan training Anakin screws that up and Qui Gon's maverick nature would've allowed such things to take place, you forget Qui Gon himself had a girlfriend for a time in Tahl and would never be opposed to his pupils doing the same as that would make him a hypocrite, similar to the council and if the force has any mercy at all, Qui Gon isn't supposed to be like the Jedi Council I hope.
@@irontemplar6222Yeh Qui-gon was different. Lucas talked about 'possessive love' being a thing that can turn someone to the Dark Side. He could have expanded more on the positive aspects of Padme and Anakin's love. She was part of his stability and foundation to start with, and with Qui-gon's training Anakin could have developed the discipline to keep their love 'healthy' and dealt with his 'fear of loss' that had ended up driving him insane. Also nice to imagine that some love is 'predestined' and happens according to fate, no matter what else may change.
I do think there’s a lot in the prequels that supports the idea that the Jedi did fall to the dark side of the force, even if they never harnessed their rage and hatred like the Sith. Even though they abstained from the outward appearance of the Dark Side and never became passionately evil like the Sith, the Jedi became far more concerned with manipulating and using the Force for their own ends of maintaining political power and prestige than following its light-and what is the absence of light? Darkness. Again and again, the Jedi council comes into conflict with the will of the Force over its Chosen One in favor of their own protocol and regulations which /they/ came up with. They are more interested in squashing uncomfortable emotions than they are with actively seeking out the will of the Force, and all but rejecting what it is clearly telling them it wants on numerous occasions. Their avoidance and failure to learn how to actually deal with their dark emotions foreshadows their lack of preparedness to deal with the Sith. Even Qui Gonn almost misses the will of the Force at first by not freeing Anakin because he has too narrowminded a view of what the Force’s will is. Don’t you think a religious order whose sole mission is to bring balance to The Force which flows through all things would have some interest in abolishing slavery-just about the most unbalanced dynamic in the galaxy? The irony of preaching balance of the life force in all things from a grand palace-like temple the size of a city while women and children slave away out of view escapes The Jedi Council. They’re too involved in their own affairs and their own interests in superficial individual perfection and amassing political influence (and eventually taking power on behalf of The Senate by military force) to even take the living will of the Force seriously when it brings its Chosen One right to them. They have a barely-knighted Jedi teach Anakin rather than a Master Jedi. And as you pointed out in this video, Obi Wan’s inexperience played a role in Anakin’s immaturity and lack of proper training. The Jedi Order is so obsessed with the minutiae of their religious order to realize they are serving under a Sith-the Jedi fight a war on behalf of the Sith. They have become, in effect, Sith-by-proxy. When Obi Wan says “Only a Sith deals in absolutes” the irony of such an absolutist statement after years of service to a dogmatically absolutist religion escapes him. Anakin’s obsession with control has blinded him to the fact that he has been led down the path to the Dark Side; so too with the Jedi.
This video was nothing short of inspiring. I'm putting it right up there with your "Mishandled Hero" Video. (I am doing a neo-Aristotelian criticism of that video for a Rhetoric class by the way. Writing the paper right now.) I think your right. Sith are wild cards. They don't actually care about the force at the end of the day. If they can use it to get power and suit their needs, great, if not, they find another way. That is why Plagues and Sidious tried to tamper with it to create life. They didn't care that the force didn't want that to happen and tried to see if they could do it in spite of the force. To be honest I would go farther and argue that Palpatine was no actually interested in even being a Sith just for Sith sake. He wanted to rule the galaxy. Being a Sith was just a means to an end. A tool to be used to get power. We know he hated and was annoyed with lightsaber combat, he didn't enjoy it for its own sake. And after he became Emperor he never really used the force ever again (except for willing his will as you've stated into the future) until he electrocuted Luke. In fact almost the entire galaxy, including most of the Imperial officers under his command, were totally unaware that he was a force user. In contrast to Darth Vader who everybody knew used the force, whom threw his use of the dark side around like a girl with a credit card out on the town. ("Choke. You're dead. Choke choke. Force force force. Dead dead."- Darth Vader) In that sense I would say Darth Sidious never wanted to be a Sith for the sake of being a Sith. If he could have gotten where he got using just politics alone, he would have.
I really like your theory about the sith being wildcards and having no regard for the will of the force. It perfectly reflects their self-centered nature. Regarding Obi Wan, in my own mind, I always entertained the idea that the order considered Kenobi to be an exceptionally competent Jedi. He had just killed a sith lord, and rarely questioned any orders from the council. That's why he was allowed to train Anakin after being knighted. He was basically "valedictorian" of the Jedi Order. And I think many would agree with me, he was indeed an exemplary Jedi, always mindful of his emotions and compassionate. But in an ironic twist of fate, was not a good teacher.
New follower, very impressed with your stories and theories. The theory I’ve always had was that it all played out as they were meant to. Snaking did fulfill the prophecy, he brought balance...2 Sith, 2 Jedi. Balance means equal number, you can’t have light without dark, or good without evil. As Yoda said, miss read the prophecy may have been. The Jedi assumed it meant destroying the Sith, yet they thought the Sith have been gone for a 1000 years? They were arrogant. The Force was out of balance because there were so many Jedi...Anakin helped widdel that down to two. Just my thoughts, keep up the great content. Thank you
I think it would be interesting to see if Mace Windu became Sidious' new apprentice, since like you said, Obi Wan wasn't exactly what Sidious was looking for. Mace, on the other hand, shares a lot of similarities with Dooku - both are senior Jedi with a lot of respect and mastery of the Force, and in the Prequels we can sort of sense that Windu may have had some Dark Side-style desire for power on his own. A Separatist faction led by Windu then? Might be cool.
I think Anakin still would've wanted Padme, I just think Qui-Gon would've been more approachable than Obi-wan and both still could've gotten married. Qui-Gon was more of a do what you feel/need to so long as its good. Obi-wan, while wonderful, was more inclined toward rank and protocol
I think Luke's comment that the Jedi felt as though the force belonged to them was a refrence to the orders practice of taking force sensative children to train as though all force users belonged to the order.
@@danieldosso2455 Except bringing balance to the force by definition is destroying the Sith. According to George Lucas. Only the light side is balance.
You make some good arguments here. The only thing I'll add to this is that in the novel Palpatine, it appears Darth Plagueis was directly responsible for creating Anakin, or at least that the Force created him as a means of pushing back against a spell that Plagueis attempted to pass
People always seem to interpret the prophesy of the chosen one bringing "balance to the force" as him eliminating all the sith. This has always seemed odd to me, because that is not balance. Balance is equal and having all jedi force users is not balanced, it is heavily tilted to the "good" side of the force. This is where I really feel that the jedi did not understand the danger of this prophesy. They were out of balance with a bunch of jedi to only a few sith and by the end of the first three movies, the chosen one did achieve his goal and bring balance to the force. We end those movies with the emperor and darth vader on the dark side and yoda and obi wan left on the light side, and thus the force is finally in balance. Perfect ying and yang.
Clone Wars still being Cannon, Anakin was destined to become part of the Family by taking the place of the Father, which would allow him to reign in the Dark side influence of the Son. Because he refused, there was no longer a balancing influence in the Force and the Darkside gained power as it's avatar was too powerful for the Lightside Avatar, the Sister, to balance out. This was not only made clear in the Clone Wars, but was also reinforced by the events in The Legacy of the Jedi book series, which was the final EU series to deal with post Palpatine era. I really wish all of these Star Wars theoriests would actually delve into the material before posting objectively wrong information on the internet.
The way I see it the Chosen One was supposed to unite the Jedi and Sith but not literally. What I mean is that they're still 2 separate factions but somehow were able to make peace with each other hence why light and dark are always meant to exist along side each other but at the same time the Chosen One must also follow his/her own path and that is to have a complete understanding of the force for a mortal being. I also believe the Chosen One was made in order to help the force out whenever it was in danger so remember when the Sith Triumvirate mainly Darth Traya was literally trying to destroy the force? Basically the force makes the Chosen One come to life and in order to destroy the evil that's threatening the force the Chosen One does what I just said but in his/her own way.
I haven't looked much into this, but apparently Lucas gas said that the true balance is the domination of the light over the dark side of the force, the dark side being the utter corruption of the force. Personally I hope its the destruction of the two flawed systems and the rise of a superior order that embodies the best of both
I see the shifting events as "tidal waves" that keep the events going in the direction they are intended to regardless of what happens to the specific indivuduals at the time until the tide change. On several occations the Jedi masters are talking about how dark the times are and how that influence both they ability to use the force and others (such as Anakins) easiness to fall to the darkside. Thus I think that what happen will still happen even if Qui Gonn trained Anakin but it might happen somewhat difference and maybe with different characters involved, but the broad strokes are there. Johan.
It was stated that he was supposed to bring balance to the force. Which I would say he did. He brought the Jedi and Sith into a 2v2 scenario. Palpatine and Skywalker vs Kenobi and Yoda.
Well here's my theory: I think that the Jedi masters did indeed prophecied the chosen 1 and Anakin being so strong with the force they had assumed that HE was that child of prophecy,however,I think they were "misled" in a sense because the chosen 1 was still to come (in his child Luke) hence why they were in between decisions wrt his knighting etc etc and the prophecy was actually this- Luke(the last Jedi) being not formally trained at the temple and exposed to corruption etc was to endure and keep the legacy(of the Jedi) alive and await the awakening of the force in pure and innocent children (as he was on tatooine-butchered that spelling) and then on a blank slate create the next Jedi order which would rise and bring balance to the universe as the new order had replaced the empire) but due to his exile he didn't rebuild the order he focused on his own whatever such as doubt and negativity which is leading to the dark side and that is why he said he failed and his absolution was his sacrifice in the end. :) And whoever was supposed to train Anakin is irrelevant because he was not the 1 of prophecy just gifted with the force -obi wan was to train Luke from a young age - away from his corrupted father(now a Sith Lord) whom Yoda forsaw in a flash vision after order 66 was executed ( check the movies again you can see him grab his head and then the pain of realisation hence why he fled into exile,HE, also failed to predict the outcome and as a Jedi grand master he failed the order he led) and that is why Obi wan was only able to guide Anakin and not teach him...after the battle on mustafar he left Anakin to tend to padme and the baby(chosen 1) WHICH WAS NOW OBVIOUS as they all felt the force. Boom!!! Also Yoda and Obi wan knew Luke was the chosen 1 hence why Yoda made sure that Obi wan was always there/around/ watching/ peeking whatever Long story I know :) love to hear what you think of this theory dude
2:25 - 3:08 - That part of your video made me realize something... ...according to your theory, the Force in Star Wars works a bit like Determination in Undertale. I have to admit, that is an interesting idea.
Once again, great insight in to the workings of the force, both light and dark. In this case, rather than writing for the films or TV shows themselves, this piece should be included in the official Canon Encyclopedia as part of the article on the Force itself. But I still think you should be offered a position creating canonical information for Star Wars, in some form or another. I fully agree with you about Sith being unpredictable (even by {or through} the Force itself), about Palpatine's 'will' being correlated with what seemed to be precognition, and that Qui-Gon was meant (by the will of the Force) to train the chosen one. Regarding how this affects Snoke, I suspect that he would be another (relatively) minor player that the Jedi would eventually notice and deal with. I suspect others, like Maul's mom, would also fall in to this category. Just be cause the Sith would be gone doesn't mean that other dark side users cease to exist as well, and the Jedi would simply continue to combat the imbalance they provoke. With the Sith gone, Snoke may have indeed been the next most powerful/credible threat to that balance, so the Chosen One may have been directed to him by the force, to put an end to the threat. Or Snoke may have intentionally evaded him until the end of his normal human life span, and then become a threat to the Jedi in his own right.
The Mortis arc in Clone Wars made it pretty clear that Anakin’s true purpose was to bring balance to the Force children of that world. Everything else that follows him rejecting his destiny is just the Force trying to patch up the fallout.
There’s obviously a reason that the Maul, Obi Wan ands Qui Gon duel was termed Duel of the Fates. It was a pivotal event for the galaxy as a whole. Also I think Qui Gon asked Obi Wan to train Anakin because he knew that no one else from the Order would have agreed to do it. The Chosen One running amok with no training would have been far worse than even suboptimal training.
Sorry for the late reply but i have to ask. Youve refered to 'balance' many times as the absence of the darkside. How would a onesided position of the force be 'balance' again? Please and thank you and keep up the great work?
I remember seeing a scene comparison between The Phantom Menace and Return of the Jedi. In TPM Darth Sidious talking to Nute Gunray and Maul is surprised by Padme risking her life by returning to Naboo to fight for her people. What Sidious inferred from this is Padme's compassion for her people could lead her to brash action. Skip to Return of the Jedi when Palpatine goes to the Second Death Star and speaks to Vader and he tells him that Luke will seek him out it's because he knows he is Padme's son and like his mother his compassion for his father will lead him to brash action. "This is an unexpected move for her. It's too aggressive. Lord Maul be mindful let them make the first move." "Patience my friend. In time he will seek you out, and when he does you must bring him before me."
Its likely that they honored qui-gon's dying wish just so they wouldnt have to deal with anakin directly and just drop him with someone he already knows.
From my point of view Anakins Destiny was always guided by the will of the force because he was created by it to repel arguably the most dangerous Sith Lord to have ever existed. However,Anakin missed his first opportunity deciding not to replace the Father on Mortis, which I believe was hIs true destiny. The force changed tactics and the task fell onto Anakins children to help finish what he started.
Great video and content! It would definitely be interesting to see if Qui Juan (sorry if I spelled that wrong) was able to train Anakin instead of Obi-Wan. That outcome/scenario would change a lot of things and make for a totally new take on how Star Wars would have become. But George Lucas maybe wanted everything to be “unbalanced” so to speak till of course the Return of the Jedi. Who knows, it would have been cool to see Qui Juan be around till Revenge of the Sith or further.
The Clone Wars era Jedi fell into the trap of "the status quo is the best way to serve the people". Many of their rules follow this principle and Anakin, as prideful as he was, did care about the greater good for the people and was more than willing to break a rule or dozen to help those who needed it. Oui-Gon would have been a voice of reason though. Many great atrocities have been committed by good intentions and Qui-Gon knew this so his lessons would have focused on this so Anakin would understand that yes we care but sometimes letting people feel their own pain and fix their own issues is the best way to see a problem.
I always figured Obi Wan was the one to train Anakin because none of the Jedi masters would agree to do it, they were all pretty unanimous in deciding that he shouldn't be trained when they first met him, they allowed him to be trained in order to honour Qui-gon's request but none of them actually believed In him enough to want to do it themselves, so Obi-wan was the only person who would train him.
Going to have to point something out. The Force isn't conscious, it isn't intelligent like people, so the force doesn't make plans etc, but rather it has a primal will of sorts, which is how it influences things and seeks stability. The reason why the jedi council had diminished capabilities of foresight etc also wasn't because they didn't follow the will of the force. It was because the Jedi temple was built straight on top of the ruins of a Sith temple, and the dark presence of the sith temple was powerful enough that Palpatine managed to cloud the force there, making it impossible for the jedi to sense his presence or have accurate visions of the future. The sith don't care at all about the will of the force, and they're usually much more powerful than the average jedi.
Balance of the force means just that, balance. The light side rules the galaxy (represented by the Jedi in great numbers) for thousands of years, while the sith were few in number (only 2). Balance meant that the Jedi had to loose more of their numbers (or sith increase theirs). In the case of the movies, the Jedi died, we only know of Yoda and Obi surviving, which were in balance with the Emperor and Vader. Perfect balance. The chosen one delivered.
I always believed Anakin was meant to decimate the numbers of the Jedi. After the prequels we had two main Sith and two main Jedi. I still maintain that the Jedi order was the real cause of an “imbalance in the Force” and they were so far away from their roots that they needed to start fresh. I always keep in mind how Yoda said the prophecy might have been misinterpreted. Which prophecy usually is. I also think you’re spot on about how Palpatine Willed the future he wants to happen. Many leaders on the real world have this same kind of self-fulfilling prophecy.
The council forbade Qui Gon from training Annakin. I thought that was why Obi Wan trained him--the council was against him being trained, so that basically ruled everyone out except Obi Wan, who decided to follow his master's last wish.
Prophesies can play out in undesirable ways. Anakin was supposed to destroy the Sith and he did that when he returned to the light and tossed Palpatine down the shaft. The prophesy just didn't mention that he'd take out the Jedi and do other terrible things first.
The Jedi purge had to take place because the Jedi were bowing to the will of the Republic and not the will of the force. The Jedi like the Sith were ignoring the true intentions of the force. Had Qui-Gon survived he still would not have been a member of the Jedi council because his way of thinking did not mesh with what the council was doing. Qui-Gon tried to follow the true will of the force the best he could while the council was more concerned with protecting the Republic. Also, if Qui-Gon had survived it is likely that he would have been the one to train Anakin. Everything after the Phantom Menace would have still happened as it did without Qui-Gon. The reason why Qui-Gon had to die was to allow the purge to take place. After the events that lead up to the fall of the Empire, Snoke revealed himself to Ben Solo. I think the reason why Snoke was not unbalancing the force before he met Ben was that he was not interacting with the galaxy. He was not a threat to the will of the force because he had no plan of emerging until after the Jedi and Sith had been wiped out. After Snoke emerged he became a threat to the will of the force which caused the force to become unbalanced once again. The force willed that Rey would come into existence so that she might put the force back into balance. The reason Snoke was killed was not to put the force back into balance but to draw an even line between the lightside and darkside. Snoke was obviously too powerful for Rey to defeat, but Kylo Ren was able to use Snoke's overconfidence against him. Rey will be able to defeat Kylo Ren because she as Snoke said is Kylo Ren's equal.
If the Jedi was shocked when they first saw Mual because they didn't know there were sith. Then what balance was Anikin supposed to bring to the force? Did the counsel feel the dark side just didn't know it was sith?
Snoke is absurd, if Palpatine could have detected Luke awakening as a "disturbence", he'd surely have detected the Tidal Wave that was Plagueis, who obvioulsy had raw potential at one point but he's obviously would have required immense training (won't go into even with "Mutant Force Gene" Rey as a magical counter-balance to Kylo, who counter-balances Snoke?). Only thing would have been for Snoke = Plagueis who thanks to his Midichlorian experiments managed to camouflage himself
Okay, here's my theory about what balance to the force means. I think that the balance that the force is seeking is not about good versus evil or positive vs negative. I think the balance is about removing the polarity. The force has a "dark" and a "light" side because two extreme dogmas evolved that defined those terms. The detached, ascetic nature of the Jedi had a tendency to make them emotionally remote. The Jedi order eschews attachments, both material and emotional; emotional detachment is not something we typically associate with positive motives like empathy, altruism or caring for one's fellow being. The Sith code was about passionate feelings - yes, for most focused on anger and hate but there are other passions like love and grief and empathy for others. I'm old enough to have seen A New Hope in the cinema, but I've always thought the balance was about bringing both sides of the force into balance. Logic and passion. I think the balance the chosen one was supposed to bring (and tbh, I don't think Lucas had this intent, I just think it makes more sense) was to destroy both the Jedi and Sith orders because they both had it wrong. "The living force" is a phrase used by Qui Gon. Living things encompass all aspects of life, survival and sacrifice. Kindness and brutality. Love and hate. My take was that the chosen one would destroy the limited dogmas of both sides and let the force be an uninterrupted continuum of the reality that governs life. If Anakin could've just been in love he wouldn't have bad to hide it and that would've lessened Palpatine's hold on him. And though I get the original idea of Jedi being a monastic order and that popular culture tends to assign a sense of piety to that, does anyone really think that being in love or being a parent somehow makes you a less enlightened being? We've all seen people that were a bit crap become better people through their development attachments to the rest of humanity.
I just think, in summary, that the Jedi vs. Sith concept might be missing the point of what balance means. A blending of both ideologies seems a lot more like balance to me. There are merits and drawbacks to both. Maybe the chosen one was supposed to eradicate the binary view force users have held for thousands of years and instead merge them. It always stuck out to me in the original trilogy that Luke is the only character to use Vader's choke - on the Gammorian guards in Jabba's palace. I assumed when RotJ came out that Luke dressed in black, using a mix of light and dark side powers, and needing to tap his passions to defeat his father but still refusing to be a murderer implied that bringing balance to the force was bringing the two sides together. In all the films when a jedi defeats a major villain it always involves leveraging emotion (perhaps Obi Wan vs Grievous notwithstanding). It seems that Jedi need to draw on feelings (both obi wan and Yoda say reach out with you feelings) to defeat the most important enemies. Even Windu has to get pissed to sort of defeat Palpatine, and then decides to summarily execute him). Both the Jedi order and the Sith order are profoundly broken and can't sustainably succeed at anything. They're like the Skesis and the Mystics in The Dark Crystal. Two halves of a greater whole made weaker by the division and in perpetual conflict until they're made whole again.
Interesting topic. I do think Anakin and Padme were meant to come together through the Force if we consider how the meetup occurred in E1 etc, There is an argument that bringing balance to the Force" isn't simply necassarily about "balancing Light and Dark" as everyone presumes, the Wenduite Jedi presumed it meant "destroying the Sith", but there's an argument that this balance occurs in many ways, eg balance between Life and Death and I really like the Morthis arc of Clone Wars. This includes Death and Renewal and arguably could have been a matter of destroying both Orders as they were which he ended up doing in a roundabout way, but there's an argument he could have killed Palpatine in RotS, and then decided to leave the Institutional Order and run off with Padme. Doing deeds among the people and slowly built up a Missionary alternative. This is kinda what Luke does with mara Jade in the EU from what I understand but it's also why Ahsoka's arc works because she kinda did what Anakin should have done Sequels aren't even worth considering, just how PT and OT flow into EU, Disney ST is a bastardisation in accordance with Far-Left Identity Politics ideology. I will say I liked the promise of Kylo's arc, as we had dual Light/Dark Props in terms of Anakin Lightsaber/Vader Mask and he should have let go of the Mask and got hold of the Lightsaber as he went to the Light. This would have been a nice meta to Luke and Leia dealing with and overcoming the Anakin/Vader legacy as they re-unite a fractured Galaxy but oh well
If Qui-Gon trains Anakin,, I think something superb happens. Obi Wan fights Maul by himself, he wins but is massively disfigured. Obi-Wan gets a white Vader type suit made from left over C3P0 parts built by Anakin. Qui-Gon dies in Anakin's early teen years and learns how to commune with the force and continues to train Anakin as a force ghost. Palpatine takes Anakin's mother as a secret apprentice and shows her the ways of the dark side all the while Anakin being the less than ideal Padawan still falls for Padme. Obi-Wan is sent to investigate an unusually strong presence in the force on Naboo where Anakin's mother has just killed Jar Jar's stupid ass. Obi-Wan is sent to kill Anakin's mother by the Jedi council. Keep in mind Anakin is not made aware of this. Padme has good relations with the people of Naboo and brings Anakin to investigate....
Qui-Gon called Anakin, "a vergence in the Force," or at least, felt that one was centered on him. But I'd like to quote from another franchise, and describe The Chosen One as what the Doctor would have called, "a fixed point in time." He was something that was meant to happen, and couldn't be avoided, with the universe warping itself to make sure that things worked out a certain way, no matter what happened to derail it. The Chosen One was meant to bring an end to the age of the prequel-era Jedi and destroy the Sith, and at least make a step towards rebooting the Order. The Force's "Plan A" was having Qui-Gon train him, but that was badly derailed by the old man's death, and then further by Anakin's subsequent fall to the darkness. So the Force improvised, creating Luke and Leia out of Anakin's forbidden love affair to put him back on track and stop the damage he'd done. Luke effectively becomes Chosen One 2.0, inspiring his father to complete the second phase of his legacy: destroying the Sith. And then Luke takes over with the last part of the task; rebuilding the Jedi. And later, when that gets undone by a further aberration (in the form of Snoke), the Force resets itself yet again with Rey, whose job is to salvage Luke's work, hold back the chaos, and finally finish the job as the new Chosen One. it will get done, in the end, but not in the straight-line path that the Force intended. Becuase the Chosen One and his/her mission is a fixed point in the Force, and ultimately cannot be avoided.
I think it was the will of the Force that Qui-Gon was killed by Darth Maul. I think the zen moment he has in the middle of the battle was the definitive moment he surrendered all his fears and desires, thus allowing him to ascend and become a Force Ghost. Had Qui-Gon not surrendered to the Force, he never would have learned to become a Force Ghost, which in turn would mean Yoda, Obi-Wan, Anakin and Luke would also not be able to do it, which in turn means the Rebellion would certainly have failed and balance would not be achieved.
Anakin played his role as the Chosen One perfectly. He brought balance to the Force. The Force was overbalanced to the Light by a too powerful and sclerotic Jedi Order. Anakin tore down the static and life-denying Jedi Order, introducing necessary portions of shadow to restore balance.
To Yoda's point that Anakin was too old to begin his training. Anakin's personality traits and experiences were not molded by Jedi since being a toddler. It did not matter who trained him
Anakin DID bring balance to the force: he wiped out all but two of the Jedi, which balances the number of Sith, which is what Yoda implies in Ep3. I agree that Jinn's loyalty to the force and willingness to break Council rules would've lead to Anakin being trained more comprehensively, and with a better balance between both sides of the force, which would've eventually won most of the Jedi over to Jinn and Anakin's ways through Anakin's charisma and force power (in a Jedi cold civil war). Ultimately Luke learned to do this, which is one of the ways he was able to beat Palpatine. Luke's ability to restrain the Dark Side within himself is one of the key counters to the the embarrassment that is "Ep7&8" (which are NOT cannon), and no doubt what was meant by "bringing balance to the force," as in learning to use - responsibly - both aspects of the force. Having said that, I also agree that Jedi are (supposed to be) guided by the force to achieve positive outcomes for the collective universe, while the Sith use the force as a tool to achieve their ambitions. It is noteworthy that Jedi principles apply in real life: if we calm our minds and hearts sufficiently, we can "listen" to the still small voice of the "force" and use it to guide us to beneficial outcomes for us and those around us. The prevalence of loud and intense distractions in life lends indirect evidence to this.
I personally think that Palpatine would still try to get under Anakin's skin somehow and eventually turn him by means of using his mother as the crux of his fall. Whether or not it's successful is another story, but as the Sith he was, the master manipulator etc etc, he almost always got what he wanted one way or another. I don't think Anakin had a destined master to learn from as a Jedi, he could have been trained by any other master and I feel as though Anakin would still be the same as he was. I think his destiny was very... Nonspecific for lack of a better term. He was made to balance the force, and in order for that to happen the scale needed to be wiped completely, and so he did. I know seeing it that way is probably just too simple or maybe boring to a degree but eh, fuck it. I like to think of it that way so that there is plenty room for interpretation and speculation, it's fun to think about it.
Palpatine did not 'Foresee' the future as much as he knew the outcome of certain actions. So you have this propaganda aspect where Palpatine SAYS 'Everything is proceeding as I have forseen'. The truth of the matter is, he was only learning the 'success' or 'failure' of certain actions, but not the exact events that would transpire to bring about its success or failure. THAT'S the tricky part. "Always in motion is the future". So, events are not fixed, and given the number of variables in play it takes a mastermind of great intellect to consistently have success this way.
Until the sequel trilogy started, my head-cannon was that Luke was the chosen one who brought balance to the force. From the last act of Empire Strikes Back, and all the way through Return Of The Jedi, Luke quite literally IS a balance between the Jedi and the Sith. Because the Jedi worked for the greater good while suppressing their emotions and feelings, while the Sith used those emotions and feelings to power the dark side. Going to Cloud City, and everything he does in 'Return of the Jedi', rescuing Han and taking on the Emperor to try and save his father, is Luke using his feelings and emotions FOR good, driven by his love for his friends and his father, a perfect balance between the emotions of the Sith and the goodness of the Jedi. Those emotions made him stronger than even the two Sith Lords that destroyed the Jedi.
The clone wars was a distraction created by the sith so they can put the chosen one prophecy in motion. It was probably maul who was supposed to train anakin but the Jedi got in the way, palps wasn’t planning on that.
I still think that Anakin was meant to turn to the dark side. The Jedi of the Clone Wars Era had been corrupt for a while before the Clone Wars, and without completely destroying their ways and most of it's Jedi, the Jedi would probably still be corrupt. Yes, Anakin may have been able to sway the Jedi from their corrupt path with the help from Qui-Gon and Dooku, but if The Council and Qui-Gon didn't have a major rift, he may've never left the Jedi Order with Dooku and Anakin, so Anakin may've been just another corrupt Jedi. (Not that he wasn't corrupt). But with Anakin turning into Vader, hence destorying the Jedi Order with Palpatine, Luke would be the perfect candidate, being Vader's son, to restore the Jedi to the Order they were meant to be, following the will of The Force. But it is possible that Luke was never meant to be the one to sway Vader back to the light. As Yoda believed, Leia could've been the one, so she would fix the Order after te end of the Empire, instead of Luke being scared off by some Emo Sith who was, to be honest, a not very fighter, with a stupid lightsaber and the son of his sister. Because if Matt the radar technician, if Ben Swolo can topple the "New Jedi Order," Then Luke should've established it much sooner, instead of just training a few force sensitives.
Also an interesting thing about your theory that Sidious can't actually really see future events but just wills them to be is this; Yoda, in Empire strikes back says "Difficult to see. Always emotion is the future." (or always in motion is the future but I like emotion better for this reason.) Meaning that our emotions play a large part in shaping the future and it can change drastically if we jump to conclusions and go off and "do something rather rash." Since Jedi are better detached from their extreme emotions or their volatile emotions, they are far better equipped than Sith to see the future. Because Jedi can step back and be a little more objective than Sith can. So it would stand to reason that Jedi can see the future (sometimes) where Sith can't. Sith can only force or bend the future. They can't see it. I mean think about it, Sith are all emotion. That is like their thing. "Use your aggressive feelings boy! Give in to your hatred." That is like the Sith bylaws right there. Extreme emotions. So they can't see the future because they are way too emotional. They can't quiet their minds.
It happened the way it did because that is how the force willed it. The Jedi had stopped serving the will of the force, which is why the Sith grew in power. Anakin did bring balance to the force by destroying both the Jedi and the Sith, leaving Luke to try and start an new Jedi order that follows the will of the force.
It would have been cool if Disney capitalized on the fact that, because both the Jedi and the Sith knew that there would be a Chosen One eventually (according to the book Darth Plagueis), the Force placed the Chosen One in the hands of the Jedi since it knew that they preach celibacy and abstinence i.e. not to love too strongly - therefore the Chosen One would never have children and therefore be destined to balance the Force. But with Qui-Gon dying and Anakin being trained improperly, it lead him to love and procreate. The Chosen One was never meant to have offspring. It throws the Force into imbalance because then there are too powerful of Force users after a few generations. Without the Jedi to guide him (which was the point of Yoda and Kenobi brings Force Ghosts) Luke was destined to fail/turn to the Dark Side after either falling in love, or seeking more power (like a Sith). Same with Leia. Which means same with Ben Solo. Instead, Lucasfilm decided to make a nonsensical cluster fuck of idiocy and lunacy.
Honestly, Mace is the best subsite for Qui-Gon. He is good, honorable, and upright. He may not be perfect. But while Qui-Gon and Plo Koon could be said to be the embodiment of the Jedi of the Old Republic era, Mace is the embodiment of the Grey Jedi like Revan. His lightsaber is purple. Like Revan's. Red and Blue make purple. Mace could have help Anakin control his tendencies and use them for good. He would have still been good friends with Obi-Wan, but he would have the father figure he needed. I think Plo Koon would the only other option.
Thor, Read dawn of the Jedi and the Darth Bane Trilogy; these were all Cannon (actual cannon, not legends) before the disney purge. I think it might change your perspective a bit. The original Jedi didnt really divide the force and warned against the corruptions of dwelling to much in either side of the force (ashla and bogan).
You also have to consider that this was all made up by Lucas flying by the seat of his pants five minutes before they had to start shooting, it’s not some deep, well thought out plot that spans three trilogies and years of accreted apocrypha. In the Original Trilogy, Anakin was just a guy who turned evil, but, for the love of his son, redeemed himself by ending the big bad, no big prophecy. George made that up later to try to add some plot trajectory for his so-called rise and fall.
I've the hypothesis that both the light and the dark side only (at least during the time of the prequels, and beyond through The Last Jedi) see what they want to see, at least for the most part. True, Qui-Gon was a breed apart and truly listened to, respected, and obeyed the force overall. But the Jedi Council and Palpatine saw what they wanted (yes, wanted) to see. In Return of the Jedi, Luke sees his father turning back to the light. Vader and Palpatine see otherwise, Luke turning to the dark. In The Last Jedi, Rey sees Kylo turning to the light. Kylo and Snoke see Rey turning to the dark side in their visions. Both sides are soooooo far from balance that, one way or another, both have short sighted visions presented by a wildly out of balance force. Qui-Gon should have trained Anakin for sure. As you mentioned in another video, Jinn would have been the stern father, not a brother like Kenobi. Though some horrid events would still take place, balance would ultimately be restored. The Jedi Council could finally pull their heads out of where the sun rarely shines on their narrow views. And, I am certain that when Jinn was killed and Kenobi was to train Anakin, Bendu did a face palm. ;)
The Jedi interpretation of the chosen one "will bring balance to the force" is interesting. The Sith had been nonexistent (or at least few in number) for a long time. If a balance were to occur that would mean the Sith would return, but that never crossed the minds of the Jedi. They were either incompetent or supremely full of themselves
My take is that the force isn't as conscience about what it's "doing". I see it more of like water, water always rights itself to level no matter what container you put it in. The flow of the force was out of level because of the number of light side users vs dark side users. When force users try to perceive the future it's like predicting the weather. They see a possible future but like a hurricane, we know what general directions it is coming from but there are always a bunch of different tracks and you can only prepare using educated guesses. Anakin was like a force hurricane and the currents around his life determined how he would behave. As for the Jedi, I see the counsel making one blunder after another leading to their downfall. They nearly universally agreed Anakin was the chosen one and neither Mace nor Yoda thought it might be a good idea to take him on? Hell, even one of the other masters at the least. They let a young new knight take him on after he was reeling from watching his long time master die and subsequent near death battle from the thought to be extinct Jedi boogie man. The counsel blew it completely. I always thought this whole thing would have went very differently with one change. Had Obi Wan had the compassion for Anakin concerning his mother and the dreams and allowed a side mission together to rescue her from death he never would have fell to the dark side.
I'll be at work all day so won't be able to read and respond to comments till later tonight. Also, I'll be doing my "Let's Talk Some Star Wars" video will be up tomorrow and will delve into what you all had to say about Rey being a role model... and a lot of you had some great things to say that I look forward to sharing.
Thor Skywalker this would make a good fan fic
I’m looking forward to it!
Hey Thor do you follow football if so who do you like. I'm a pats fan...I was born in Massachusetts and I live in Connecticut so I'm hoping my son likes the pats when he gets older if not its ok as well.
But I do hope my son becomes a fan of the Sith
Thor Skywalker In George’s description Anakin chose the wrong path and went to the darkside and became Vader, before finally, bringing balance to the force and saving the galaxy as the Chosen one was destined to. So in a way in the true G-Canon Anakin was corrupted, went evil and redeemed himself by doing what he was meant to . So what that means is that Anakin failed in Revenge of the Sith and was manipulated but got back up and became the hero he was meant to be. This could mean that in revenge of the Sith Anakin was never meant to turn to the darkside but help the Jedi defeat him and see the era in their ways like you mentioned . At least it’s a possibility. In the end in George’s story Anakin would bring balance after redemption and showing that he could be saved by the light. Selflessness over Selfishness. In Legends Canon everything was meant to happen the way it did because the force was punishing the Jedi and the Sith for not following its own will and using it for the Republic and false sense of Justice like politics at the time so it spawned its chosen one to slay the Jedi and Sith to show them that the force should never be used for false reasons and that when Anakin was bringing balance in Legends continuity he was doing it for the balance between the Jedi and Sith to create a type of gray, this is all different reasoning considering it is Legends at least in George Lucas’s story the balance is between life and death I believe.
I believe Qui-gon was supposed to train Anakins to save the Jedi. But after his death, plan b was just wipe out all the sith and jedi and start agaim with a clean slate.
I've always thought that Qui-Gons penchant for breaking the rules would fit well with training Anikan, and help him curb his darker attitude.
Mike, from Texas you can kill 5 sand people , make your bed and I’ll give you some blue milk .
Yeah Anakin would have tread his own path more independent of the Institutional Jedi
This may be prideful, but I still really like my thoughts on "The Chosen One" and that he was destined to destroy what the Jedi became and reset the balance with the Order itself.
I believe that the Chosen One was set forth to bring balance to the Jedi Order, _not_ to destroy the Sith. After the Great Jedi and Sith Wars, the Jedi Order fractured and some believed that an allegiance with the Republic would prevent the Sith, or another Dark Side entity, from rising again while others were set to follow the Will of the Force alone. An allegiance to the Republic, as seen by certain Ancient Jedi, would cause the Order to loose their connection to the Force. The Ancient Jedi's strong connection to the Force allowed a stronger Jedi to have visions of the future and in this, they saw The Chosen One bring balance to the Order. Could they also have seen Jinn training this returning Jedi as well?
I say this because *_if_* the Jedi were pure like the Ancient Jedi were, then they would've sensed the re-surging Sith long before Palpatine would've gained any true power. We first see the Jedi's diminished connection in Ep I where Ki-Adi-Mundi and Windu say:
Ki-Adi-Mundi: "Impossible! The Sith are extinct! They have been for nearly a millennium."
Windu: "Agreed. The Sith would not have returned without us sensing it."
I find it interesting that Jinn is perceived as having a unique outlook on the Jedi Order as if he follows the ancient ways over the will of the council.
Again, in Ep I, we hear:
Kenobi: "Don't defy the council, Master, not again."
Jinn: "I will do what I must, Obi-Wan."
So, I do believe your theory that it was Jinn who was to train The Chosen One and not Kenobi. Jinn had a sense of the original intent of the Order and that it followed the Will of the Force and that alone. We hear him say, in Ep I:
Jinn to Queen Amadala: "I can only protect you, I can't fight a war for you."
So, did Anakin's training take a turn for the worst with Kenobi and his seemingly favorable view of the council? Various quotes from Kenobi in Ep II and III show that he strongly favored the council and its will, which was opposite of his Master. Ultimately, in Ep III, Kenobi sides with the notion that Anakin was set to Destroy the Sith.
In Ep III, we hear Kenobi say:
Kenobi: "With all due respect, Master, is he not the Chosen One? Is he not to destroy the Sith and bring balance to the Force?"
Yoda responds with:
Yoda: "A prophecy, that misread, could have been."
Could Yoda finally be realizing the true purpose of the Chosen One and that it wasn't to destroy the Sith, but bring balance to the Order? If the balance with the Order was restored and their connection to the Force rekindled, then the Order themselves could've stopped the Sith.
But, finally, we have the biggest clue as to "Why Kenobi wasn't meant to train Anakin" is his line at the end of Ep III:
Kenobi: "Anakin, my allegiance is to the Republic, to democracy!"
Look at who Kenobi's allegiance is too. It's *_not_* to the Force, but it's to the Republic and look at what happened as a result. So, the Prophecy was fulfilled, but the Republic was destroyed in the process and decades of a tyrannical reign ensued.
The Will of the Force can not be done by those with deaf ears.
Jinn to Queen Amadala: "I can only protect you, I can't fight a war for you."
Luke to Leia: "I can't save you". And indeed, he is not fighting a war for Leia. But he protects her,
Is that not interesting?
It is.
The force willed the Jedi to follow the Republic and a Sith Lord?
Joden Thorne
Um....sure.
The Jedi have diminished powers and have become arrogant, which is confirmed in the prequels. Yoda, during Ep II I believe, stated that arrogance is a growing trait of the Jedi. Also in Ep II, Windu believes it's time to inform the Senate that the Jedi's ability to use the Force has diminished.
To a great extent, this is why Jinn is so different than the other Jedi and are at odds with the council numerous times.
So, the Jedi have closed their minds to the Force with the strengthening attachment to the Republic.
kreia: “I hate the Force. I hate that it seems to have a will, that it would control us to achieve some measure of balance, when countless lives are lost.”
Kreia had the right idea
I wish the new canon would explore this idea someday.
Same thing some fans have been saying the same, adding, "that it's ruining our childhoods"
It’s either their way or the high ground.
Qui-gon wasn't killed by Darth Maul. Episodes 2-9 are force visions that he has while meditating during the Maul duel. At the very end of Episode 9 he will come out of the meditation, shout "NOPE, NOT HAPPENING" and go kill child Anakin to stop that version of the future from happening. We then get a whole new set of movies starting a few years before the Clone Wars in this new real time line that isn't a force vision.
Nathan Gerber Greatest plot twist ever
Nathan Gerber Better yet, it’s before he even goes on his mission to Naboo
This video really makes me appreciate just how influential Qui-Gons death is. And it is such a shame that things didn't go the way the Force had planned. Gosh darn the Sith Lol. :)
That kinda would have killed the franchise. One half-movie: Qui Gon fixes Maul, saves Anakin, Roll Credits.
Luke Skywalker the 2nd but to quote Obi-Wan... well kind of quote
“I thought I could teach Vader just as YODA... instructed me. I was wrong”. Why does Qui-Gon exist????
factoring the sequel trilogy into theories is a waste of time. it doesn't follow the logic from the rest of the franchise.
Thats why idc about the sequels. I just pretend they dont exist
believing Kathleen Kennedy to use logic is like believing that Elvis is hiding in Cuba
They arent cannon to me. I wish we could at least get legends and cannon films. Like an Imperial Remnant Trilogy for legends after the ST ends (with Thrawn only in a cutscene of the first film, a rising threat in the second who starts to take control of the Empire, and the main villian in the third film.
Agreed, that Luke Skywalker is definitely not the same one from the OT.
I can’t believe Luke in TLJ saying “Now that they’re extinct, the Jedi are romanticised, deified. But if you strip away the myth and look at their deeds, the legacy of the Jedi is failure, hypocrisy, hubris.” (To which Rey replies “That’s not true!” Like she’d even know anyway.) Complete opposite of Luke from OT.
I don't think Dooku would have joined Qui-Gon in training Anakin. Qui-Gon respected Dooku as his Master, but they were not that close. They weren't friends.
"It was a face he knew intimately, but he also knew, and had known for some time, that it was a face he did not love. At first this had bothered him -- until he realized he did not need to love his Master, merely learn from." Legacy of the Jedi, pg 98
"'I hear he is well,' Qui-Gon said. He was not in touch with his old Master. He had not expected to be. Their relationship had not been based on friendship. It had been one of teacher and student. It was natural that they should not be in each other's lives." Legacy of the Jedi, pg 111
Dooku also believes there is something fundamentally wrong with the republic/jedi and so leaves the order altogether after careful prodding from Sidious.
Qui-Gon doesn't necessarily believe that the systems in power are wrong, he still wants to hold up the good, but Qui-Gon wants to change things within the republic
I thought I'd read most of the EU books. Who is the author of Legacy of the Jedi? I can't find it on Amazon. Thanks.
faithfully patient it was written by Jude Watson. Although it is a younger reader, it has a pretty good story overall. It goes through the apprenticeships of Dooku through Anakin. Overall it's a pretty easy read and had some good backstory building for Dooku.
I found it! Thank you!
Gui gon's death was one of the factors that pushed dooku to the dark side
I look at Anakin being made as simply the force making someone to fix the problem of the lack of balance, but not something the force planned out exactly what he would do. The force just made a powerful being like an anti-body but didn't plan out exactly what would happen with him.
@KingOne Fool. The Chosen One was supposed to destroy the Sith and bring balance to the force. Let's see, Anakin turns to the dark side and helps destroy the Jedi, then kills Sidious and dies, thus killing both Sith. The Sith have been destroyed and with only a few existing Jedi and the Sith destroyed but the dark side still existing, the force has been brought into balance. Anakin fulfilled the prophecy to the letter. However the Jedi misread the prophecy as Yoda suggests in Revenge of the Sith. Anakin was the Chosen One, as stated by George Lucas, and shown throughout the movies, and to say otherwise shows a lack of understanding of what's going on in the films.
@KingOne you clearly don't understand Star Wars at all
@KingOne lmao Disney fanboy. Rey is a MaRey Sue and has nothing to do with the prophecy.
KingOne right that’s why she beat kylo ren on there first fight when she never held a lightsaber despite him having years to train uh huh
KingOne she has the biggest plot armor ever...
I remember George Lucas saying in the Episode 3 behind the scenes that Vader did bring balance in the force by killing palpatine. So by that logic I'm guessing this was always the end result, with the journey up to that point being whatever it could be depending on what the characters did or as u said these stories went exactly as it should. Anyway Snoke is not a sith so maybe he doesn't necessarily affect the balance lol I don't know anymore
"Only a Sith deals in absolutes."
.... flashback....
"If it's not in our database, it doesn't exist."
... gasp 😦... Darth Librarian.
Dave Marx jokes on you she was actually evil
From my understanding, the Clone Wars movie begins 6-8 months after ep2, meaning Anakin was given a padawan shortly after being knighted post ep2.
Yeah, something like that. Gotta wonder how often that happened in the Jedi Order of that era.
IMHO Yoda was right. After so many centuries there probably wasn't much he hadn't seen a dozen times.
He objected repeatedly and Obi Wan defied him. Wasn't that why Obi Wan had to become a hermit to watch over Luke? Because he was responsible?
*Next vid idea:*
"How the Coneheads became Force-sensitive, the story of Ki-Adi-Mundi."
I imagine the force like a garden, where flora and weeds grow, and where the flora believes the balance can only come, when the weed is torn out. But the chosen one wants to not only root out the weed, he has a better idea. He roots out the weed and the flora, cuts the grass and the leaves and the bushes, to make space for a new and better garden, where he can plant his own seeds, to grow a better garden. Because even though the flora and bushes and trees are beautiful, they are a mess, and the chosen one wants a better garden than that.
In this case, the seeds is the chosen one's children, who build a better garden from the ashes. Remember Anakin destroyed both the Jedi council and the sith, but he spawned a new generation of traditional jedi. I don't know if George Lucas ever thought of it this way, perhaps he intended for Anakin to fail, that's a good story too, but this is a bittersweet way of viewing the prophecy.
When Qui-Gon spoke of the prophecy, he NEVER mentioned: "and destroy the sith.". That was added in episode 2 by Obi-Wan, Yoda, and Mace Windu. Perhaps the prophecy was misread? This is simple. Lucasfilm has been pushing that the force is NOT limited to just Jedi or even Sith. The Force has its own will... so for it to have balance, it's much bigger than the perspective of the Jedi and Sith. #SELAH
Thanks for the vid. Lol! About Snoke! Luke in TLJ explaining about the Force was one of my more favourite scenes in the franchise.
To me Luke had come to dislike the the Jedi, even the Jedi Order, which is one of the reasons he exiled himself to restore or make a new Order, and failed at that, labelling himself even more of a failure. I wish this was better portrayed in the films. All of Luke’s effort and his perceived failure.
And the way he was explaining the Force to Rey, made sense to me. Balance is integral, just like night and day, birth and death, light and dark. If the “Chosen One” needed to bring balance to the Force, and the Chosen One was Anakin, he needed to restore the balance caused majorly by the Jedi Order had become corrupted and, more so by the Sith who were bending too much according to their own selfish will. That’s a lot for a little boy to do, in a Council who never believed in him in the first place. It ended with Obi-awan saying “Anakin, you were suppossed to destroy the Sith, not join them.” But that was not all that needed to be done. In all “Chosen One” stories, usually said Chosen One is not burdened by the responsibility of the task by himself or herself, especially against people who don’t believe or have faith in him or her, much less offer support.
All these reasons is why Anakin is one of the greatest tragedies ever written, and I loved that so much time after, Anakin’s redemption came with Anakin saving Luke.
Yes, really liked this, Presentation again So true, I too had always seen it that way too, You explain it so well, how the force flows through the Jedi, And that Obi wan was too young to be training Annikin. But he felt such obligations to, AND imagine the amazing Jedi Obi wan could've become also, he may have had a amazing mission ahead of him also... But so it all goes when we carry on doing the same Ol same Ol patterns without letting wombs heal.. (For example, possibly if Yoda stepped up and trained him instead). Thank you for your video.🎁
There's a really interesting take on the prophecy in a fanfiction rewrite of ROTS by Veriform that I believe is what the Chosen One's ultimate fate is to be.
"He will bring balance to the Force, but he shall no know peace. He will be a conduit to its Will, but he shall not know his own. Twice he will fall and twice be reborn, and the galaxy will shake at the rumor of his passage."
Given what has happened so far with the ST, I think it's safe to assume that Qui-Gon was meant to train Anakin, because if he wasn't, and that anyone could've rebuilt the Jedi Order, then Luke wouldn't have failed, but since he did, I think that speaks volumes about the importance of Qui-Gon and Anakin.
This alternate story sounds SO much more interesting than anything Disney has shat out. Great video!
Nice Video, one thing I want to mention thou, I actually think Palpatine did know or at least expected Luke’s arrival on Endor. In one of the Aftermath book interludes we get a conversation between him and Gallius Rax. In this conversation he kind of mentions his possible death and future plan of the Empire. In my opinion this hints at knowing that Luke may come to him.
I lay in my bed getting jumped on by noisy kids.. just wanting to be able to listen to this video. Maybe later..
Least I wasn't making dinner.
I disagree with you about Padmé not being a part of Anakin's life, I feel that once Anakin killed Sidious and saved the galaxy, he'd be at a loss for what to do with himself, Padmé would then reenter his life when he is 22/23, I picture them marrying still but when Anakin is 25 and Padmé 30, unlike canon which was a spur of the moment thing they'd date for a time and I have read fanfics from a guy where in his mind the force screams in rage when something bad happens to the Skywalker family, and approves the Skywalker good faith, Obi Wan training Anakin screws that up and Qui Gon's maverick nature would've allowed such things to take place, you forget Qui Gon himself had a girlfriend for a time in Tahl and would never be opposed to his pupils doing the same as that would make him a hypocrite, similar to the council and if the force has any mercy at all, Qui Gon isn't supposed to be like the Jedi Council I hope.
Lead with Quigon having a girlfriend it's a helps support your argument
@@irontemplar6222Yeh Qui-gon was different. Lucas talked about 'possessive love' being a thing that can turn someone to the Dark Side. He could have expanded more on the positive aspects of Padme and Anakin's love. She was part of his stability and foundation to start with, and with Qui-gon's training Anakin could have developed the discipline to keep their love 'healthy' and dealt with his 'fear of loss' that had ended up driving him insane.
Also nice to imagine that some love is 'predestined' and happens according to fate, no matter what else may change.
I do think there’s a lot in the prequels that supports the idea that the Jedi did fall to the dark side of the force, even if they never harnessed their rage and hatred like the Sith. Even though they abstained from the outward appearance of the Dark Side and never became passionately evil like the Sith, the Jedi became far more concerned with manipulating and using the Force for their own ends of maintaining political power and prestige than following its light-and what is the absence of light? Darkness.
Again and again, the Jedi council comes into conflict with the will of the Force over its Chosen One in favor of their own protocol and regulations which /they/ came up with. They are more interested in squashing uncomfortable emotions than they are with actively seeking out the will of the Force, and all but rejecting what it is clearly telling them it wants on numerous occasions. Their avoidance and failure to learn how to actually deal with their dark emotions foreshadows their lack of preparedness to deal with the Sith.
Even Qui Gonn almost misses the will of the Force at first by not freeing Anakin because he has too narrowminded a view of what the Force’s will is. Don’t you think a religious order whose sole mission is to bring balance to The Force which flows through all things would have some interest in abolishing slavery-just about the most unbalanced dynamic in the galaxy? The irony of preaching balance of the life force in all things from a grand palace-like temple the size of a city while women and children slave away out of view escapes The Jedi Council. They’re too involved in their own affairs and their own interests in superficial individual perfection and amassing political influence (and eventually taking power on behalf of The Senate by military force) to even take the living will of the Force seriously when it brings its Chosen One right to them. They have a barely-knighted Jedi teach Anakin rather than a Master Jedi. And as you pointed out in this video, Obi Wan’s inexperience played a role in Anakin’s immaturity and lack of proper training.
The Jedi Order is so obsessed with the minutiae of their religious order to realize they are serving under a Sith-the Jedi fight a war on behalf of the Sith. They have become, in effect, Sith-by-proxy. When Obi Wan says “Only a Sith deals in absolutes” the irony of such an absolutist statement after years of service to a dogmatically absolutist religion escapes him. Anakin’s obsession with control has blinded him to the fact that he has been led down the path to the Dark Side; so too with the Jedi.
The chosen one was a half-baked plot point that never went anywhere.
This video was nothing short of inspiring. I'm putting it right up there with your "Mishandled Hero" Video. (I am doing a neo-Aristotelian criticism of that video for a Rhetoric class by the way. Writing the paper right now.)
I think your right. Sith are wild cards. They don't actually care about the force at the end of the day. If they can use it to get power and suit their needs, great, if not, they find another way.
That is why Plagues and Sidious tried to tamper with it to create life. They didn't care that the force didn't want that to happen and tried to see if they could do it in spite of the force.
To be honest I would go farther and argue that Palpatine was no actually interested in even being a Sith just for Sith sake. He wanted to rule the galaxy. Being a Sith was just a means to an end. A tool to be used to get power.
We know he hated and was annoyed with lightsaber combat, he didn't enjoy it for its own sake. And after he became Emperor he never really used the force ever again (except for willing his will as you've stated into the future) until he electrocuted Luke.
In fact almost the entire galaxy, including most of the Imperial officers under his command, were totally unaware that he was a force user. In contrast to Darth Vader who everybody knew used the force, whom threw his use of the dark side around like a girl with a credit card out on the town.
("Choke. You're dead. Choke choke. Force force force. Dead dead."- Darth Vader)
In that sense I would say Darth Sidious never wanted to be a Sith for the sake of being a Sith. If he could have gotten where he got using just politics alone, he would have.
I really like your theory about the sith being wildcards and having no regard for the will of the force. It perfectly reflects their self-centered nature.
Regarding Obi Wan, in my own mind, I always entertained the idea that the order considered Kenobi to be an exceptionally competent Jedi. He had just killed a sith lord, and rarely questioned any orders from the council. That's why he was allowed to train Anakin after being knighted. He was basically "valedictorian" of the Jedi Order. And I think many would agree with me, he was indeed an exemplary Jedi, always mindful of his emotions and compassionate. But in an ironic twist of fate, was not a good teacher.
New follower, very impressed with your stories and theories.
The theory I’ve always had was that it all played out as they were meant to. Snaking did fulfill the prophecy, he brought balance...2 Sith, 2 Jedi. Balance means equal number, you can’t have light without dark, or good without evil. As Yoda said, miss read the prophecy may have been. The Jedi assumed it meant destroying the Sith, yet they thought the Sith have been gone for a 1000 years? They were arrogant.
The Force was out of balance because there were so many Jedi...Anakin helped widdel that down to two. Just my thoughts, keep up the great content. Thank you
so if the Force couldn't forsee what darkside users would do, then how could lightside users get any clear premonition
I think it would be interesting to see if Mace Windu became Sidious' new apprentice, since like you said, Obi Wan wasn't exactly what Sidious was looking for. Mace, on the other hand, shares a lot of similarities with Dooku - both are senior Jedi with a lot of respect and mastery of the Force, and in the Prequels we can sort of sense that Windu may have had some Dark Side-style desire for power on his own. A Separatist faction led by Windu then? Might be cool.
I think Anakin still would've wanted Padme, I just think Qui-Gon would've been more approachable than Obi-wan and both still could've gotten married. Qui-Gon was more of a do what you feel/need to so long as its good. Obi-wan, while wonderful, was more inclined toward rank and protocol
Thirdman24 exactly, Obi Won followed the rules because of his experiences with his Master constantly breaking them
I think Luke's comment that the Jedi felt as though the force belonged to them was a refrence to the orders practice of taking force sensative children to train as though all force users belonged to the order.
I felt the chosen one suppose to destroy both the jedi and the sith and bring balance
ItsRyanYT
That is an interesting idea. No one ever said the chosen one would fight for the Jedi.
you have a point, I believe the quote is "he will bring balance to the force" not specifically to one side or the other
@@danieldosso2455
Except bringing balance to the force by definition is destroying the Sith. According to George Lucas. Only the light side is balance.
Anakin son of Thanos
U actually got a good point
You make some good arguments here. The only thing I'll add to this is that in the novel Palpatine, it appears Darth Plagueis was directly responsible for creating Anakin, or at least that the Force created him as a means of pushing back against a spell that Plagueis attempted to pass
People always seem to interpret the prophesy of the chosen one bringing "balance to the force" as him eliminating all the sith. This has always seemed odd to me, because that is not balance. Balance is equal and having all jedi force users is not balanced, it is heavily tilted to the "good" side of the force. This is where I really feel that the jedi did not understand the danger of this prophesy. They were out of balance with a bunch of jedi to only a few sith and by the end of the first three movies, the chosen one did achieve his goal and bring balance to the force. We end those movies with the emperor and darth vader on the dark side and yoda and obi wan left on the light side, and thus the force is finally in balance. Perfect ying and yang.
"I had a dream I was a Jedi. I came back here and freed all the slaves."
What if they did train him on Tatooene... and he saved his mother.
I used to think Qui Gon was supposed to die, but now you’ve got me thinking it was meant go either way but with different outcomes and events
Clone Wars still being Cannon, Anakin was destined to become part of the Family by taking the place of the Father, which would allow him to reign in the Dark side influence of the Son. Because he refused, there was no longer a balancing influence in the Force and the Darkside gained power as it's avatar was too powerful for the Lightside Avatar, the Sister, to balance out. This was not only made clear in the Clone Wars, but was also reinforced by the events in The Legacy of the Jedi book series, which was the final EU series to deal with post Palpatine era.
I really wish all of these Star Wars theoriests would actually delve into the material before posting objectively wrong information on the internet.
Definitely one of the most interesting “what if’s” in Star Wars
You hit every nail on its head!!! Omitting Anakin/Darth Vader and ignoring TFA setups completely derailed any potential in this sequel series.
oops was for the last video
The way I see it the Chosen One was supposed to unite the Jedi and Sith but not literally. What I mean is that they're still 2 separate factions but somehow were able to make peace with each other hence why light and dark are always meant to exist along side each other but at the same time the Chosen One must also follow his/her own path and that is to have a complete understanding of the force for a mortal being. I also believe the Chosen One was made in order to help the force out whenever it was in danger so remember when the Sith Triumvirate mainly Darth Traya was literally trying to destroy the force? Basically the force makes the Chosen One come to life and in order to destroy the evil that's threatening the force the Chosen One does what I just said but in his/her own way.
Balance presupposes two parts that are balanced.
I haven't looked much into this, but apparently Lucas gas said that the true balance is the domination of the light over the dark side of the force, the dark side being the utter corruption of the force. Personally I hope its the destruction of the two flawed systems and the rise of a superior order that embodies the best of both
I see the shifting events as "tidal waves" that keep the events going in the direction they are intended to regardless of what happens to the specific indivuduals at the time until the tide change. On several occations the Jedi masters are talking about how dark the times are and how that influence both they ability to use the force and others (such as Anakins) easiness to fall to the darkside. Thus I think that what happen will still happen even if Qui Gonn trained Anakin but it might happen somewhat difference and maybe with different characters involved, but the broad strokes are there. Johan.
It was stated that he was supposed to bring balance to the force. Which I would say he did. He brought the Jedi and Sith into a 2v2 scenario. Palpatine and Skywalker vs Kenobi and Yoda.
Love these videos. Have you done anything regarding the other force users, the "grey" Jedi? Are they actually canonical?
This is Darth Bullsith of the Galactic Notification Empire, running very late! All wings, report in!
Bullsith, standing by!
Well here's my theory: I think that the Jedi masters did indeed prophecied the chosen 1 and Anakin being so strong with the force they had assumed that HE was that child of prophecy,however,I think they were "misled" in a sense because the chosen 1 was still to come (in his child Luke) hence why they were in between decisions wrt his knighting etc etc and the prophecy was actually this- Luke(the last Jedi) being not formally trained at the temple and exposed to corruption etc was to endure and keep the legacy(of the Jedi) alive and await the awakening of the force in pure and innocent children (as he was on tatooine-butchered that spelling) and then on a blank slate create the next Jedi order which would rise and bring balance to the universe as the new order had replaced the empire) but due to his exile he didn't rebuild the order he focused on his own whatever such as doubt and negativity which is leading to the dark side and that is why he said he failed and his absolution was his sacrifice in the end. :) And whoever was supposed to train Anakin is irrelevant because he was not the 1 of prophecy just gifted with the force -obi wan was to train Luke from a young age - away from his corrupted father(now a Sith Lord) whom Yoda forsaw in a flash vision after order 66 was executed ( check the movies again you can see him grab his head and then the pain of realisation hence why he fled into exile,HE, also failed to predict the outcome and as a Jedi grand master he failed the order he led) and that is why Obi wan was only able to guide Anakin and not teach him...after the battle on mustafar he left Anakin to tend to padme and the baby(chosen 1) WHICH WAS NOW OBVIOUS as they all felt the force. Boom!!! Also Yoda and Obi wan knew Luke was the chosen 1 hence why Yoda made sure that Obi wan was always there/around/ watching/ peeking whatever
Long story I know :) love to hear what you think of this theory dude
Ricky Ross Luke the Chosen One? Interesting
2:25 - 3:08 - That part of your video made me realize something...
...according to your theory, the Force in Star Wars works a bit like Determination in Undertale. I have to admit, that is an interesting idea.
Once again, great insight in to the workings of the force, both light and dark. In this case, rather than writing for the films or TV shows themselves, this piece should be included in the official Canon Encyclopedia as part of the article on the Force itself. But I still think you should be offered a position creating canonical information for Star Wars, in some form or another.
I fully agree with you about Sith being unpredictable (even by {or through} the Force itself), about Palpatine's 'will' being correlated with what seemed to be precognition, and that Qui-Gon was meant (by the will of the Force) to train the chosen one.
Regarding how this affects Snoke, I suspect that he would be another (relatively) minor player that the Jedi would eventually notice and deal with. I suspect others, like Maul's mom, would also fall in to this category. Just be cause the Sith would be gone doesn't mean that other dark side users cease to exist as well, and the Jedi would simply continue to combat the imbalance they provoke. With the Sith gone, Snoke may have indeed been the next most powerful/credible threat to that balance, so the Chosen One may have been directed to him by the force, to put an end to the threat. Or Snoke may have intentionally evaded him until the end of his normal human life span, and then become a threat to the Jedi in his own right.
The Mortis arc in Clone Wars made it pretty clear that Anakin’s true purpose was to bring balance to the Force children of that world. Everything else that follows him rejecting his destiny is just the Force trying to patch up the fallout.
There’s obviously a reason that the Maul, Obi Wan ands Qui Gon duel was termed Duel of the Fates. It was a pivotal event for the galaxy as a whole. Also I think Qui Gon asked Obi Wan to train Anakin because he knew that no one else from the Order would have agreed to do it. The Chosen One running amok with no training would have been far worse than even suboptimal training.
Sorry for the late reply but i have to ask.
Youve refered to 'balance' many times as the absence of the darkside. How would a onesided position of the force be 'balance' again?
Please and thank you and keep up the great work?
I remember seeing a scene comparison between The Phantom Menace and Return of the Jedi. In TPM Darth Sidious talking to Nute Gunray and Maul is surprised by Padme risking her life by returning to Naboo to fight for her people. What Sidious inferred from this is Padme's compassion for her people could lead her to brash action.
Skip to Return of the Jedi when Palpatine goes to the Second Death Star and speaks to Vader and he tells him that Luke will seek him out it's because he knows he is Padme's son and like his mother his compassion for his father will lead him to brash action.
"This is an unexpected move for her. It's too aggressive. Lord Maul be mindful let them make the first move."
"Patience my friend. In time he will seek you out, and when he does you must bring him before me."
Its likely that they honored qui-gon's dying wish just so they wouldnt have to deal with anakin directly and just drop him with someone he already knows.
From my point of view Anakins Destiny was always guided by the will of the force because he was created by it to repel arguably the most dangerous Sith Lord to have ever existed. However,Anakin missed his first opportunity deciding not to replace the Father on Mortis, which I believe was hIs true destiny. The force changed tactics and the task fell onto Anakins children to help finish what he started.
Great video and content! It would definitely be interesting to see if Qui Juan (sorry if I spelled that wrong) was able to train Anakin instead of Obi-Wan. That outcome/scenario would change a lot of things and make for a totally new take on how Star Wars would have become. But George Lucas maybe wanted everything to be “unbalanced” so to speak till of course the Return of the Jedi. Who knows, it would have been cool to see Qui Juan be around till Revenge of the Sith or further.
What happens if the chosen one was merely a mirror of the worst aspects of both sides of the force?
Now, Im flipping through your videos and you start almost all of them with "now ... "
The Clone Wars era Jedi fell into the trap of "the status quo is the best way to serve the people". Many of their rules follow this principle and Anakin, as prideful as he was, did care about the greater good for the people and was more than willing to break a rule or dozen to help those who needed it. Oui-Gon would have been a voice of reason though. Many great atrocities have been committed by good intentions and Qui-Gon knew this so his lessons would have focused on this so Anakin would understand that yes we care but sometimes letting people feel their own pain and fix their own issues is the best way to see a problem.
I always figured Obi Wan was the one to train Anakin because none of the Jedi masters would agree to do it, they were all pretty unanimous in deciding that he shouldn't be trained when they first met him, they allowed him to be trained in order to honour Qui-gon's request but none of them actually believed In him enough to want to do it themselves, so Obi-wan was the only person who would train him.
Going to have to point something out. The Force isn't conscious, it isn't intelligent like people, so the force doesn't make plans etc, but rather it has a primal will of sorts, which is how it influences things and seeks stability. The reason why the jedi council had diminished capabilities of foresight etc also wasn't because they didn't follow the will of the force. It was because the Jedi temple was built straight on top of the ruins of a Sith temple, and the dark presence of the sith temple was powerful enough that Palpatine managed to cloud the force there, making it impossible for the jedi to sense his presence or have accurate visions of the future. The sith don't care at all about the will of the force, and they're usually much more powerful than the average jedi.
Balance of the force means just that, balance. The light side rules the galaxy (represented by the Jedi in great numbers) for thousands of years, while the sith were few in number (only 2). Balance meant that the Jedi had to loose more of their numbers (or sith increase theirs). In the case of the movies, the Jedi died, we only know of Yoda and Obi surviving, which were in balance with the Emperor and Vader. Perfect balance. The chosen one delivered.
I always believed Anakin was meant to decimate the numbers of the Jedi. After the prequels we had two main Sith and two main Jedi. I still maintain that the Jedi order was the real cause of an “imbalance in the Force” and they were so far away from their roots that they needed to start fresh. I always keep in mind how Yoda said the prophecy might have been misinterpreted. Which prophecy usually is. I also think you’re spot on about how Palpatine Willed the future he wants to happen. Many leaders on the real world have this same kind of self-fulfilling prophecy.
The council forbade Qui Gon from training Annakin. I thought that was why Obi Wan trained him--the council was against him being trained, so that basically ruled everyone out except Obi Wan, who decided to follow his master's last wish.
Prophesies can play out in undesirable ways. Anakin was supposed to destroy the Sith and he did that when he returned to the light and tossed Palpatine down the shaft. The prophesy just didn't mention that he'd take out the Jedi and do other terrible things first.
The Jedi purge had to take place because the Jedi were bowing to the will of the Republic and not the will of the force. The Jedi like the Sith were ignoring the true intentions of the force. Had Qui-Gon survived he still would not have been a member of the Jedi council because his way of thinking did not mesh with what the council was doing. Qui-Gon tried to follow the true will of the force the best he could while the council was more concerned with protecting the Republic. Also, if Qui-Gon had survived it is likely that he would have been the one to train Anakin. Everything after the Phantom Menace would have still happened as it did without Qui-Gon. The reason why Qui-Gon had to die was to allow the purge to take place. After the events that lead up to the fall of the Empire, Snoke revealed himself to Ben Solo. I think the reason why Snoke was not unbalancing the force before he met Ben was that he was not interacting with the galaxy. He was not a threat to the will of the force because he had no plan of emerging until after the Jedi and Sith had been wiped out. After Snoke emerged he became a threat to the will of the force which caused the force to become unbalanced once again. The force willed that Rey would come into existence so that she might put the force back into balance. The reason Snoke was killed was not to put the force back into balance but to draw an even line between the lightside and darkside. Snoke was obviously too powerful for Rey to defeat, but Kylo Ren was able to use Snoke's overconfidence against him. Rey will be able to defeat Kylo Ren because she as Snoke said is Kylo Ren's equal.
9:54 Nailed it! A cowardly move on Jonson's part or just a stupid decission.
If the Jedi was shocked when they first saw Mual because they didn't know there were sith. Then what balance was Anikin supposed to bring to the force?
Did the counsel feel the dark side just didn't know it was sith?
Snoke is absurd, if Palpatine could have detected Luke awakening as a "disturbence", he'd surely have detected the Tidal Wave that was Plagueis, who obvioulsy had raw potential at one point but he's obviously would have required immense training (won't go into even with "Mutant Force Gene" Rey as a magical counter-balance to Kylo, who counter-balances Snoke?). Only thing would have been for Snoke = Plagueis who thanks to his Midichlorian experiments managed to camouflage himself
Things went the way they were suppose to....I don’t see how having just Jedi remaining would be balance either.
I have to agree with one of your closing comments...bad planning...coffcoff...bad planning...
Dooku was a Jar Jar Binks replacement. We know now that Lucas found Jar Jar was too much hated, even to be a Sith Lord.
Okay, here's my theory about what balance to the force means. I think that the balance that the force is seeking is not about good versus evil or positive vs negative. I think the balance is about removing the polarity. The force has a "dark" and a "light" side because two extreme dogmas evolved that defined those terms. The detached, ascetic nature of the Jedi had a tendency to make them emotionally remote. The Jedi order eschews attachments, both material and emotional; emotional detachment is not something we typically associate with positive motives like empathy, altruism or caring for one's fellow being. The Sith code was about passionate feelings - yes, for most focused on anger and hate but there are other passions like love and grief and empathy for others. I'm old enough to have seen A New Hope in the cinema, but I've always thought the balance was about bringing both sides of the force into balance. Logic and passion. I think the balance the chosen one was supposed to bring (and tbh, I don't think Lucas had this intent, I just think it makes more sense) was to destroy both the Jedi and Sith orders because they both had it wrong. "The living force" is a phrase used by Qui Gon. Living things encompass all aspects of life, survival and sacrifice. Kindness and brutality. Love and hate. My take was that the chosen one would destroy the limited dogmas of both sides and let the force be an uninterrupted continuum of the reality that governs life. If Anakin could've just been in love he wouldn't have bad to hide it and that would've lessened Palpatine's hold on him. And though I get the original idea of Jedi being a monastic order and that popular culture tends to assign a sense of piety to that, does anyone really think that being in love or being a parent somehow makes you a less enlightened being? We've all seen people that were a bit crap become better people through their development attachments to the rest of humanity.
I just think, in summary, that the Jedi vs. Sith concept might be missing the point of what balance means. A blending of both ideologies seems a lot more like balance to me. There are merits and drawbacks to both. Maybe the chosen one was supposed to eradicate the binary view force users have held for thousands of years and instead merge them. It always stuck out to me in the original trilogy that Luke is the only character to use Vader's choke - on the Gammorian guards in Jabba's palace. I assumed when RotJ came out that Luke dressed in black, using a mix of light and dark side powers, and needing to tap his passions to defeat his father but still refusing to be a murderer implied that bringing balance to the force was bringing the two sides together. In all the films when a jedi defeats a major villain it always involves leveraging emotion (perhaps Obi Wan vs Grievous notwithstanding). It seems that Jedi need to draw on feelings (both obi wan and Yoda say reach out with you feelings) to defeat the most important enemies. Even Windu has to get pissed to sort of defeat Palpatine, and then decides to summarily execute him). Both the Jedi order and the Sith order are profoundly broken and can't sustainably succeed at anything. They're like the Skesis and the Mystics in The Dark Crystal. Two halves of a greater whole made weaker by the division and in perpetual conflict until they're made whole again.
Interesting topic. I do think Anakin and Padme were meant to come together through the Force if we consider how the meetup occurred in E1 etc, There is an argument that bringing balance to the Force" isn't simply necassarily about "balancing Light and Dark" as everyone presumes, the Wenduite Jedi presumed it meant "destroying the Sith", but there's an argument that this balance occurs in many ways, eg balance between Life and Death and I really like the Morthis arc of Clone Wars. This includes Death and Renewal and arguably could have been a matter of destroying both Orders as they were which he ended up doing in a roundabout way, but there's an argument he could have killed Palpatine in RotS, and then decided to leave the Institutional Order and run off with Padme. Doing deeds among the people and slowly built up a Missionary alternative. This is kinda what Luke does with mara Jade in the EU from what I understand but it's also why Ahsoka's arc works because she kinda did what Anakin should have done
Sequels aren't even worth considering, just how PT and OT flow into EU, Disney ST is a bastardisation in accordance with Far-Left Identity Politics ideology. I will say I liked the promise of Kylo's arc, as we had dual Light/Dark Props in terms of Anakin Lightsaber/Vader Mask and he should have let go of the Mask and got hold of the Lightsaber as he went to the Light. This would have been a nice meta to Luke and Leia dealing with and overcoming the Anakin/Vader legacy as they re-unite a fractured Galaxy but oh well
If Qui-Gon trains Anakin,, I think something superb happens. Obi Wan fights Maul by himself, he wins but is massively disfigured. Obi-Wan gets a white Vader type suit made from left over C3P0 parts built by Anakin. Qui-Gon dies in Anakin's early teen years and learns how to commune with the force and continues to train Anakin as a force ghost. Palpatine takes Anakin's mother as a secret apprentice and shows her the ways of the dark side all the while Anakin being the less than ideal Padawan still falls for Padme. Obi-Wan is sent to investigate an unusually strong presence in the force on Naboo where Anakin's mother has just killed Jar Jar's stupid ass. Obi-Wan is sent to kill Anakin's mother by the Jedi council. Keep in mind Anakin is not made aware of this. Padme has good relations with the people of Naboo and brings Anakin to investigate....
Was anakin bringing balance to the force by exposing their folly through forbidden attachment or was anakin literally playing a deal with the devil.
lol how can you bring up the "Only a Sith deals in absolutes" line without acknowledging it in of itself is an absolute.
Qui-Gon called Anakin, "a vergence in the Force," or at least, felt that one was centered on him. But I'd like to quote from another franchise, and describe The Chosen One as what the Doctor would have called, "a fixed point in time." He was something that was meant to happen, and couldn't be avoided, with the universe warping itself to make sure that things worked out a certain way, no matter what happened to derail it. The Chosen One was meant to bring an end to the age of the prequel-era Jedi and destroy the Sith, and at least make a step towards rebooting the Order.
The Force's "Plan A" was having Qui-Gon train him, but that was badly derailed by the old man's death, and then further by Anakin's subsequent fall to the darkness. So the Force improvised, creating Luke and Leia out of Anakin's forbidden love affair to put him back on track and stop the damage he'd done. Luke effectively becomes Chosen One 2.0, inspiring his father to complete the second phase of his legacy: destroying the Sith. And then Luke takes over with the last part of the task; rebuilding the Jedi.
And later, when that gets undone by a further aberration (in the form of Snoke), the Force resets itself yet again with Rey, whose job is to salvage Luke's work, hold back the chaos, and finally finish the job as the new Chosen One. it will get done, in the end, but not in the straight-line path that the Force intended. Becuase the Chosen One and his/her mission is a fixed point in the Force, and ultimately cannot be avoided.
I think it was the will of the Force that Qui-Gon was killed by Darth Maul. I think the zen moment he has in the middle of the battle was the definitive moment he surrendered all his fears and desires, thus allowing him to ascend and become a Force Ghost. Had Qui-Gon not surrendered to the Force, he never would have learned to become a Force Ghost, which in turn would mean Yoda, Obi-Wan, Anakin and Luke would also not be able to do it, which in turn means the Rebellion would certainly have failed and balance would not be achieved.
Anakin played his role as the Chosen One perfectly. He brought balance to the Force. The Force was overbalanced to the Light by a too powerful and sclerotic Jedi Order. Anakin tore down the static and life-denying Jedi Order, introducing necessary portions of shadow to restore balance.
To Yoda's point that Anakin was too old to begin his training. Anakin's personality traits and experiences were not molded by Jedi since being a toddler. It did not matter who trained him
Anakin DID bring balance to the force: he wiped out all but two of the Jedi, which balances the number of Sith, which is what Yoda implies in Ep3.
I agree that Jinn's loyalty to the force and willingness to break Council rules would've lead to Anakin being trained more comprehensively, and with a better balance between both sides of the force, which would've eventually won most of the Jedi over to Jinn and Anakin's ways through Anakin's charisma and force power (in a Jedi cold civil war). Ultimately Luke learned to do this, which is one of the ways he was able to beat Palpatine. Luke's ability to restrain the Dark Side within himself is one of the key counters to the the embarrassment that is "Ep7&8" (which are NOT cannon), and no doubt what was meant by "bringing balance to the force," as in learning to use - responsibly - both aspects of the force.
Having said that, I also agree that Jedi are (supposed to be) guided by the force to achieve positive outcomes for the collective universe, while the Sith use the force as a tool to achieve their ambitions.
It is noteworthy that Jedi principles apply in real life: if we calm our minds and hearts sufficiently, we can "listen" to the still small voice of the "force" and use it to guide us to beneficial outcomes for us and those around us. The prevalence of loud and intense distractions in life lends indirect evidence to this.
I personally think that Palpatine would still try to get under Anakin's skin somehow and eventually turn him by means of using his mother as the crux of his fall. Whether or not it's successful is another story, but as the Sith he was, the master manipulator etc etc, he almost always got what he wanted one way or another. I don't think Anakin had a destined master to learn from as a Jedi, he could have been trained by any other master and I feel as though Anakin would still be the same as he was. I think his destiny was very... Nonspecific for lack of a better term. He was made to balance the force, and in order for that to happen the scale needed to be wiped completely, and so he did. I know seeing it that way is probably just too simple or maybe boring to a degree but eh, fuck it. I like to think of it that way so that there is plenty room for interpretation and speculation, it's fun to think about it.
Palpatine did not 'Foresee' the future as much as he knew the outcome of certain actions.
So you have this propaganda aspect where Palpatine SAYS 'Everything is proceeding as I have forseen'. The truth of the matter is, he was only learning the 'success' or 'failure' of certain actions, but not the exact events that would transpire to bring about its success or failure. THAT'S the tricky part.
"Always in motion is the future". So, events are not fixed, and given the number of variables in play it takes a mastermind of great intellect to consistently have success this way.
Until the sequel trilogy started, my head-cannon was that Luke was the chosen one who brought balance to the force.
From the last act of Empire Strikes Back, and all the way through Return Of The Jedi, Luke quite literally IS a balance between the Jedi and the Sith. Because the Jedi worked for the greater good while suppressing their emotions and feelings, while the Sith used those emotions and feelings to power the dark side.
Going to Cloud City, and everything he does in 'Return of the Jedi', rescuing Han and taking on the Emperor to try and save his father, is Luke using his feelings and emotions FOR good, driven by his love for his friends and his father, a perfect balance between the emotions of the Sith and the goodness of the Jedi. Those emotions made him stronger than even the two Sith Lords that destroyed the Jedi.
obi wan was often not even there for anakin through most of his toughest trials
The clone wars was a distraction created by the sith so they can put the chosen one prophecy in motion. It was probably maul who was supposed to train anakin but the Jedi got in the way, palps wasn’t planning on that.
I still think that Anakin was meant to turn to the dark side. The Jedi of the Clone Wars Era had been corrupt for a while before the Clone Wars, and without completely destroying their ways and most of it's Jedi, the Jedi would probably still be corrupt. Yes, Anakin may have been able to sway the Jedi from their corrupt path with the help from Qui-Gon and Dooku, but if The Council and Qui-Gon didn't have a major rift, he may've never left the Jedi Order with Dooku and Anakin, so Anakin may've been just another corrupt Jedi. (Not that he wasn't corrupt). But with Anakin turning into Vader, hence destorying the Jedi Order with Palpatine, Luke would be the perfect candidate, being Vader's son, to restore the Jedi to the Order they were meant to be, following the will of The Force.
But it is possible that Luke was never meant to be the one to sway Vader back to the light. As Yoda believed, Leia could've been the one, so she would fix the Order after te end of the Empire, instead of Luke being scared off by some Emo Sith who was, to be honest, a not very fighter, with a stupid lightsaber and the son of his sister. Because if Matt the radar technician, if Ben Swolo can topple the "New Jedi Order," Then Luke should've established it much sooner, instead of just training a few force sensitives.
Also an interesting thing about your theory that Sidious can't actually really see future events but just wills them to be is this;
Yoda, in Empire strikes back says "Difficult to see. Always emotion is the future." (or always in motion is the future but I like emotion better for this reason.)
Meaning that our emotions play a large part in shaping the future and it can change drastically if we jump to conclusions and go off and "do something rather rash."
Since Jedi are better detached from their extreme emotions or their volatile emotions, they are far better equipped than Sith to see the future. Because Jedi can step back and be a little more objective than Sith can.
So it would stand to reason that Jedi can see the future (sometimes) where Sith can't. Sith can only force or bend the future. They can't see it.
I mean think about it, Sith are all emotion. That is like their thing. "Use your aggressive feelings boy! Give in to your hatred."
That is like the Sith bylaws right there. Extreme emotions.
So they can't see the future because they are way too emotional. They can't quiet their minds.
I’d love an alternate timeline movie series of this happening.
It happened the way it did because that is how the force willed it. The Jedi had stopped serving the will of the force, which is why the Sith grew in power. Anakin did bring balance to the force by destroying both the Jedi and the Sith, leaving Luke to try and start an new Jedi order that follows the will of the force.
It would have been cool if Disney capitalized on the fact that, because both the Jedi and the Sith knew that there would be a Chosen One eventually (according to the book Darth Plagueis), the Force placed the Chosen One in the hands of the Jedi since it knew that they preach celibacy and abstinence i.e. not to love too strongly - therefore the Chosen One would never have children and therefore be destined to balance the Force. But with Qui-Gon dying and Anakin being trained improperly, it lead him to love and procreate. The Chosen One was never meant to have offspring. It throws the Force into imbalance because then there are too powerful of Force users after a few generations. Without the Jedi to guide him (which was the point of Yoda and Kenobi brings Force Ghosts) Luke was destined to fail/turn to the Dark Side after either falling in love, or seeking more power (like a Sith). Same with Leia. Which means same with Ben Solo. Instead, Lucasfilm decided to make a nonsensical cluster fuck of idiocy and lunacy.
Honestly, Mace is the best subsite for Qui-Gon.
He is good, honorable, and upright.
He may not be perfect. But while Qui-Gon and Plo Koon could be said to be the embodiment of the Jedi of the Old Republic era, Mace is the embodiment of the Grey Jedi like Revan.
His lightsaber is purple. Like Revan's.
Red and Blue make purple. Mace could have help Anakin control his tendencies and use them for good. He would have still been good friends with Obi-Wan, but he would have the father figure he needed.
I think Plo Koon would the only other option.
Thor, Read dawn of the Jedi and the Darth Bane Trilogy; these were all Cannon (actual cannon, not legends) before the disney purge. I think it might change your perspective a bit. The original Jedi didnt really divide the force and warned against the corruptions of dwelling to much in either side of the force (ashla and bogan).
Nice diss at the end ;)
You also have to consider that this was all made up by Lucas flying by the seat of his pants five minutes before they had to start shooting, it’s not some deep, well thought out plot that spans three trilogies and years of accreted apocrypha. In the Original Trilogy, Anakin was just a guy who turned evil, but, for the love of his son, redeemed himself by ending the big bad, no big prophecy. George made that up later to try to add some plot trajectory for his so-called rise and fall.
I've the hypothesis that both the light and the dark side only (at least during the time of the prequels, and beyond through The Last Jedi) see what they want to see, at least for the most part. True, Qui-Gon was a breed apart and truly listened to, respected, and obeyed the force overall. But the Jedi Council and Palpatine saw what they wanted (yes, wanted) to see. In Return of the Jedi, Luke sees his father turning back to the light. Vader and Palpatine see otherwise, Luke turning to the dark. In The Last Jedi, Rey sees Kylo turning to the light. Kylo and Snoke see Rey turning to the dark side in their visions. Both sides are soooooo far from balance that, one way or another, both have short sighted visions presented by a wildly out of balance force. Qui-Gon should have trained Anakin for sure. As you mentioned in another video, Jinn would have been the stern father, not a brother like Kenobi. Though some horrid events would still take place, balance would ultimately be restored. The Jedi Council could finally pull their heads out of where the sun rarely shines on their narrow views. And, I am certain that when Jinn was killed and Kenobi was to train Anakin, Bendu did a face palm. ;)
The Jedi interpretation of the chosen one "will bring balance to the force" is interesting. The Sith had been nonexistent (or at least few in number) for a long time. If a balance were to occur that would mean the Sith would return, but that never crossed the minds of the Jedi. They were either incompetent or supremely full of themselves
My take is that the force isn't as conscience about what it's "doing". I see it more of like water, water always rights itself to level no matter what container you put it in. The flow of the force was out of level because of the number of light side users vs dark side users. When force users try to perceive the future it's like predicting the weather. They see a possible future but like a hurricane, we know what general directions it is coming from but there are always a bunch of different tracks and you can only prepare using educated guesses. Anakin was like a force hurricane and the currents around his life determined how he would behave. As for the Jedi, I see the counsel making one blunder after another leading to their downfall. They nearly universally agreed Anakin was the chosen one and neither Mace nor Yoda thought it might be a good idea to take him on? Hell, even one of the other masters at the least. They let a young new knight take him on after he was reeling from watching his long time master die and subsequent near death battle from the thought to be extinct Jedi boogie man. The counsel blew it completely. I always thought this whole thing would have went very differently with one change. Had Obi Wan had the compassion for Anakin concerning his mother and the dreams and allowed a side mission together to rescue her from death he never would have fell to the dark side.