Much to learn, you still have, about balance in Star Wars... according to George Lucas
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- Опубліковано 9 вер 2024
- George Lucas talks about the Force: • George Lucas on the Fo...
Quotes from George Lucas (Reddit): / the_balance_of_the_for...
My initial video: • You don't know Sith ab...
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Original/Prequals = Light - Hard to learn, Dark - Easy to learn
Sequels = Light - Easy to learn, Dark - Hard to learn
What happened to the Force in the Sequels?
"Who cares about consistency when we can make $$$$$$$$$$$$"
-Disney and Lucasfilm
It got sacrificed for cheap cash grabs and bad storytelling. I knew Disney to do the opposite- good storytelling but hey Eiger‘s Era.
The thing about "leveling up" or training in Star Wars is not a thing - that's a thing in games - it's a man-made monolith. When you're born with _the power to use the Force_ you're born with the midichlorians that make the translation or whatever the Force does to communicate with you, amplified by the midichlorian count...according to the way it's portrayed in TPM.
The abilities are really innate. I mean, the Force can inspire or allow you to do anything that needs doing to get the results it sees fit...so basically, if someone learns to do something like _lifting rocks_ or Jedi Mind Tricks and you've learned about it, you could technically do it yourself with proper focus. Some less experienced may need to train their focus to learn how to do it better, but also when you feel prompted you should be able to focus better, believing it is the Will of the Force. That knowledge is also passed on through the Force, so it can be viewed as someone needing less training than others. It can also be considered that training is _unlearning _*_what you think you know_*_ that just ain't so._
The Force works through you, not levels of rank. The ability to do anything also depends on purpose and intent. If you're doing something like a Jedi Mind Trick for personal gain or something deemed as unnatural, it is considered bending the Will of the Force to your means. Bending the Force's Will creates a tear in the Force itself. Damning the energy of a river robs sustenance from the crops and life downstream.
When you consider all this, you can then begin to understand "balance" as it is meant in the prophecy, it is the ability to repair the Force itself. Extreme darkness, or unnatural darkness against extreme light -- the healers. The healers are not tethered to light though. They can use the natural dark side of the Force as a means to an end, as long as they don't become a narcissistic fool. Eternal life is a natural thing. We are granted many lives. Becoming immortal by bending the Will of the Force is not. When we have completed our life cycles, we can return from the Cosmic Force through the example of the Chosen One. Mythologically speaking, of course.
Superb explanation of your point of view, appreciated!
I like this explanation, E.E. I think the mentor helps. Training in self defense, how to fight, when it is okay to use the dark side... because you will have to kill to protect at times.
If Lucas was still a producer like in clone wars sequel trilogy would have been better than it ended
Except people would still hate It because It was made by Lucas AFTER the Prequels where Lucas pretty much became the No : 1 person by the Star Wars fandom.
He never wanted to make a sequel
I pledge myself to your teachings.
ItsRyanYT Once more the well informed fans well rule the fandom!
Henceforth... You shall be known as Darth... Vader
@@lukeskywalker9026 WANCE MOARRRR THE SITH WILL RULE THE GALAXY and we shall have... peacccce
Goooooooooood
And this is the problem with Disney Star Wars. The new “canon”, especially in Rebels is almost skirting with the idea that it’s almost WRONG to skew too much towards the light or dark. Only the gray... the Bendu, the one in the middle is truly in balance, or “good”, because taking a stance to one side or the other creates imbalance. And truthfully, I don’t think that’s what Lucas was going for. Obviously, if you watch the OT, the good side was the Light side , whilst the evil side WAS the Dark side, the classic trope of good versus evil. While I find the philosophies of new SW interesting, it seems to go against what Lucas created in Episodes 1-6. Just my opinion though.
So basically lucasfilm right now think balance of the force is to be apathetic. APATHY IS DEATH
@@sheevboi1872 Thank you, Kreia.
@@sheevboi1872 yeah what idiots.
John and Thor are mixing up religion and intent/emotions.
Jedi & Sith are religions with tenants, rules etc as to how the force should be used. Jedi’s avoid emotion and Sith exploit them.
Balance is embracing all emotions but not blindly leaning to either extreme. Balance means not being a monk and not being hedonistic. Balance or grey Jedi embrace peace, joy, caring etc but also love, passion, and using fear for courage etc. The Jedi and Sith religions don’t allow both, where balance/grey jedi’s do. A world without love and passion ain’t worth living.
Also, George used religion mythology to create the force and Buddhism was a core tenant. Buddhism believed in non-duality which is balance ie no sith no jedi but a balanced used of the force. The prophecy of balance is to get rid of both religions which Luke almost did until Rey took the text.
Lucas may have made Star Wars, but it doesn’t make him the best writer in the franchise. Let’s not forget he created the Prequels, which are Frankenstein monstrosities. The prequels needed to be supplemented by other works, like the Plaguies novel and the Clone Wars, written by James Luceno and Dave Filoni (who admittedly was advised by Lucas throughout the process).
Although the OT is well written, it’s just the typical Good Vs. Evil, Hero Vs. Villain stuff. It lacks the moral ambiguity that is needed to forge more complex characters and themes. Han, Luke, and Vader in the films are simple, relatable characters and that is completely fine. It makes the OT relatable to almost all audiences, making the films classics.
Writing complex stories with moral gray areas, intricate plots, and multidimensional characters makes the tale much more difficult to understand, especially when you originally planned to make a story that everyone could relate to. However, considering how that original demographic has gotten older, it may be advised for Disney to start looking into that direction for furthering the franchise.
And now let's look how Rian Jhonson thinks the force works... Yeap, I guess he really never cared about what George Lucas had in mind about the SW universe
Well to be fair, the way it works was explained by Snoke, the antagonist, if I remember correctly, which means it may be considered wrong, or at least that's how I see it
@@TheRealBileth but everything he said about balance in the movie completely ignores what came before and what was established
@@GS-rd5fs Yes, but maybe he has a different understanding of the Force, maybe he is lying, maybe he is wrong, he is the villain after all. Let's not forget that characters in the Star Wars universe themselves don't know everything about the Force, and can have different interpretations of it. That's one way to rationalize it at least.
@@TheRealBileth but he's analysis in this trilogy makes sense, "the darkness rise and the light to meet it" but it completely invalidates what came before, the story of Anakin the Chosen one, Luke the farmer with a dream, everything about the force doesn't make sense now because of his point of view, instead of using he's own point of view, he should have studied the Star Wars universe and try he's best to honor the past, but instead he decided to do whatever that fuck he wanted because he could!
@@GS-rd5fs I see what your meaning but Palpatine was afraid of the force striking back at him for destroying the Jedi, that why he built the death star was to instill fear in the people to quell hope as hope is of the light side of the force, while fear is of the dark side. Palpatine own fear of the force was his undoing he made stupid mistakes because of it. What smoke says is true in a way to what Lucas says, there is an eb and flow of light and dark, too much light caused monastic zealots of the force Too much dark caused the Sith. Luke and Vader did balance the force but Palpatine surviving and growing in power started to throw the scales off especially when Ben started falling, that why it's called the force awakens it meant the force itself was actively trying to create balance through Rey.
I love how you start every video with "Now..."
Thank you... it's kind of become my thing.
Go back and watch his early stuff where there isn't a now and it just doesn't feel right!
It’s where our attention belongs...
Thor Skywalker haha I love the “now...” I’m glad you’re still doing it!
@@thorskywalker You should do a "Rian Johnson." Subvert expectations of your viewers and don't start your next video with "Now..." That would be fun.
This is the reason why Star Wars is my favorite fictional universe. Harry Potter or the Lord of the rings have incredible mythology and magic systems, but they don't go far as to explain the metaphysics of their systems. Star War's core is the Force, a concept that can be related to a lot of western and eastern philosophies and religions, like God, The Good, The Tao, Brahman, Substance, etc. And the reason why Thor Skywalker is the best Star War's channel, is because he addresses the meaning behind the Force and it's purpose in the galaxy, rather than just explaining temporal aspects of the Star War's story. Even if we say that Lucas was telling a story, the story must have an absolute principle that gives it meaning. Just like the Bible can be considered a "great" story, but a believer knows that without God, there is just no story at all.
Have you read the Silmarilian? I hope I spelled that right.
Yeah, The Silmarillion functions like a bible for Tolkien's mythos, far more than anything we have in Star Wars. And then there's Morgoth's Ring, which basically contains a whole book of Tolkien debating the metaphysical underpinnings of his world, and trying to work out inconsistencies. As a Catholic this was hugely important to him, and he spent more time working on it than any other fantasist I know (okay, maybe not more than Dante), certainly more than Lucas.
Apart from that, I agree, I love the metaphysical aspect of Star Wars!
Yeah I was going to say something like that about the Silmarillion. As usual I'm always late, because there's always another fan of the professor ready to explain things up :)
Which is why Star Wars died for me when Lucas left. The new movies are shitting on everything George was trying to say with the Force. Now we have a main character who gets all powerful with the Force for no reason and never struggles with the dark side. Rey is so boring and one of the worst main characters in a main franchise in the history of movies.
Ricard de Virgo I quite disagree that Tolkien's Middle Earth doesn't explain it's metaphysics that well (I can think of no better counter argument to that particular statement in your comment than The Silmarillion or Morgoth's Ring), but other than that I really couldn't agree more. Thor really is the greatest Star Wars channel, and I really love how he delves so deep into my all time favorite aspect of Star Wars (which is it's core metaphysics of course) among other things that I love about it. It's my second all time favorite world apart from Tolkien's! :)
I like to think of the force like an ecosystem. Nothing inherently good or evil about any part of it, with the light side representing things like sunlight, rivers, flowers, etc., & the dark side representing storms, wildfires, volcanoes & the like. The only reason the dark side tends to be associated with hatred, evil, & pain is because that's simply the effect it happens to have on sentient lifeforms who use it, but in its purest form, it's simply an explosion of energy meant to keep the cycle in check. Without forest fires, the forest would grow unchecked & eventually consume all the resources in the land, but the fire allows new growth to begin. Those who fully succumb to the dark side are essentially trying to tame the storm by sailing out into its midst, & it eventually tears them down. No matter how strong a sail you think your boat has, it will never be able to handle the full force of a hurricane.
I was thinking something along those lines, except in the analogy I think that nothing in nature is inherently dark or light. The dark side is represented when someone tries to bend nature to their will and upsets the natural balance. For example, by hunting some animals to extinction, clear cutting forests, polluting rivers, whether intentionally or through carelessness. That's why it doesn't necessarily matter how many light side users there are.
@@corpsyman Interesting. I think the dark side has to be some inherent part of the force, though, rather than a corruption of it as there are places like Dagobah that are rich in the dark side, & yet also full of life. I just think that for sentient force lifeforms, it happens to also act like a toxin, & thus we classify it as "evil," when in reality, it's just a part of nature. Like how a snake being venomous isn't meant to be evil or malicious, it's just how the snake has evolved to survive.
@@SeraphimCramer I think disasters like storms are the dark side but that the existence of the darks side doesn't dissrupt the balance. Death is needed to give birth to new life. Rather those who fully give in to the dark side and sail into the storm and elevate this natural and necessary destruction to a higher level when they cut down trees for example are the ones that destroy the balance. However using only the light(only caring about others and being selfless) while following the will of the force and thus keeping the natural balance between life and death keeps the balance. The reason why the jedi of the prequels failed is because they didn't follow the will of the force and hunted down the dark side like an inquisition(and without death there can be no life). Now you may ask why someone shouldn't use both sides to keep the balance if said balance contains both the light and the dark(life and death) and this should work in theory but yet jedi don't do this because force-users(even more so than normal people) are extremely sensitive to their emotions because they can feel the force and thus life itself. If they would use the dark(death) even for good they would succumb to it's temptation and turn fully to it. The father tried to keep the balance between his children(the son presented the dark and the sister presented the light but not the jedi like Thor said. At least not the true ones but rather the ones from the prequels thus she was to extreme) by using both the light and the dark(or the grey as it is called in the new canon) like the Bendu. The reason why true jedi don't use the dark(risking falling to it) might be why the father eventually failed. Maybe he was so conflicted between both sides that his pain essentially drove him to the dark without realizing it. That might be why he didn't see his son was going to betray him. Another explanation for the father's faillure could be the arrival of some unbalanced prequel-era jedi(Anakin, Obi-wan and Ahsoka). If this is true the father might be a rare exception to the you-will-fall-to-the-dark-if-you-use-it rule just like Mace Windu.
Methinks to acheive balance what must wipe out half the universe
That sounds close to Qui Gon Jinn's doctrine of the Living Force.
TBH I think the concept of balance in the Force has been warped over the years and Lucas has evolved his own ideas about what how it is conceptualized.
In the OT it seems quite clear to me that it is not about balance "between light and dark". Rather the Light Side was the term to identify discipline and balance itself, while the Dark side described passion, excess, and corruption. For example, death would not be considered even within the realm of either side. The Sides were purely a categorization of emotions/behaviors. Note how in the 1980 quote it seems that when he says "it" refers to the FORCE overall, not to the sides. The sides, he says, ARE good or bad.
But then later, Lucas (and the fan base) started to view it as "the light side means ABC aspects of life in general, the dark side is XYZ aspects of life, the the two must be balanced with each other". Ep1 seems to head more in this direction with Qui Gonn's little talk with Anakin. This brings us to the conception you've described quite well in the video. It of course has similarities to the OT concept, but it is different.
We all know George is a fan of revision :)
But now having seen TLJ, I can't tell really what Disney thinks balance or the light/dark sides are because of how they had Luke talk about it and how supposedly both just rise up equally automatically or something?
I actually think that's a fair assessment.
Star wars has been retconned so many times at this point that it's really hard to care about it anymore. I feel like almost every fan either intentionally or not just has their own headcanon that's loosely tied together by contradictory evidence. Yet so many of them speak on their interpretation as fact.
I don't think windu ever actually used or tapped into the darkside even in the books. For his lightsaber form to work he skims the penumbra of the darkside. Hes essentially doing what a water strider does. Walking along the top of the dark side by standing on its surface pressure. Never actually touching it or falling into it but using the surface pressure to fuel his style. Actually tapping into the darkside to use the style is covered in the shatterpoint novel and basically says that doing that WILL make you fall to the darkside and not even windu is immune to that which is why he didn't do it.
I believe Mace Windu's fighting style actually drained dark side energy from there opponent making them weaker and required that the user revel in combat to use it effectively. It's the reason why Mace Windu beat Palpatine, he was using his own power against him. Unless they changed how that worked at some point.
@@maesterdanteamadeus444 Palpatine threw the fight to make Anikan turn to the dark side and to corrupt Windu and make him fall to the Dark Side in front of Anikan.... How did you miss that? "I can't hold it any longer... I'm to weak... too weak.. Anikan help me. don't kill me please."
Two seconds later:
"UNLIMITED POWER!!!!!!!!"
If you need any more convincing on the subject, Sidious beat Yoda literally the next day, so I don't think his duel with Windu was all the taxing AT ALL to be honest!
Hecken Good i don’t see it how you do. I did not see windu turn dark. He was clear minded. He knew if Palpatine was kept alive he would further create destruction.
Jedi’s and sith’s fight to the death. It’s in the lore.
Alorha Baga regardless of what you believe, you should read the book, Windu definitely went dark side.
@WillFanofMany ""Palpatine still made no move to defend himself from Skywalker; instead he ramped up the lightning bursting from his hands, bending the fountain of Mace's blade back toward the Korun Master's face. [...] This was beyond Vaapad; he had no strength left to fight against his own blade. [...] Mace's blade bent so close to his face that he was choking on ozone. "Anakin, he's too strong for me-" "Ahhh-" Palpatine's roar above the endless blast of lightning became a fading moan of despair. The lightning swallowed itself, leaving only the night and the rain, and an old man crumpled to his knees on a slippery ledge. "I... can't. I give up. I... I am too weak, in the end. Too old, and too weak. Don't kill me, Master Jedi. Please. I surrender.""
Naw.
"When you go to the dark side, it gets out of balance."
My takeaway: Balance is the symbiotic relationship between you and the universe. (The Force in this case) When you embrace the darkside you break that relationship.
It is so sad that we do not have George Lucas anymore.
Well at least he's still alive.
It was the fans that drove him away though no?
@@Numero103 It was more like Lucas being pissy about people hating the prequels. He couldn't take the criticism of those movies and just basically packed up his toys and said "no more movies then". He seems to genuinely believe the prequels are masterpieces and refuses to acknowledge any flaws in them.
@@FallenShadowNinja But they are :)
George Lucas had a vision. Disney just has dollar signs in their eyes.
"The Force may have no light or dark side, but we do. We must choose." ―Luke Skywalker
I hovered over the thumbnail and it showed a preview of some berries and I was a little confused.
Hey ThorSkywalker, great video! Just wanted to correct you on your point of view of the devil. Much like all of us, he wasn't created to be inherently evil. Just like as you said all of us have the free will within us to do right or wrong (to choose the light side or dark side), and this is definitely the case for the devil too.
God originally created Lucifer to be one of the most beautiful head angles, a cherub. But Lucifer became so obsessed in his pride and longing to be God (to have unlimited power) that he rebelled against him. God had Michael (the head of God's army and ideal for what every Jedi should be) cast out Lucifer from Heaven. Now Lucifer is known as the devil and though he knows that he has lost, still deceives all of God's creations to tempt them to the dark side and rebel against God. So I feel like this strongly resembles the mythology of Star Wars. Maybe not, I'd love to hear you thoughts.
this is fact. this IS canon. THIS is how the force was always meant to be seen, and it’s why Return of the Jedi is so perfect in closing the story with Anakin as the Chosen One. the last jedi is an insulting piece of garbage and it is proof that Rian Johnson and the goons at Disney/Lucasfilm don’t know the first thing about what Star Wars is really about.
TLJ > TPM & ATC
@@splashnskillz37 Dude...
How do you mean? I thought that Rey's training with Luke where she reaches out and feels the Force was really on the mark. Certainly far from insulting.
@@patrickclark2801 And yet, it doesn't go anywhere. She never uses the actual Force except to lift rocks. No, boulders?
Completely agree.
I do believe that it's explained that Mace Windu used a technique that used the darkside energy of his opponent against them, thus bolstering himself in the fight (and more so the longer the fight lasted).
Mace Windu was responsible for crushing General Grievous lungs. Crush and choke are talents of the Darkside. Luke himself used choke on the Jabba's palace guards in Return of the Jedi and also gave in to his hatred facing off with his father and almost lost himself in that conflict.
This is Undoubtedly my favorite Star Wars channel. Thank you! Been watching since your first video, always good times!
I think the conept of "balance in the Force" and a chosen one thing was an over complication of SW. In the OT, it was simple. There was the Force, as just a spiritual energy field, and the Darkside, that was fueled by evil, agression, hatred and fear, and of course was seductive. Whilst a Jedi had emotions and even relationships (shown in many sources pre-prequels and OT era), they did not turn to the Darkside through that, only if channeling the power of the Darkside its self. (We even see this in the persona of the Jedi characters in the OT, they expressed emotions, attachments and so on, even Yoda).
The original set up is that the Jedi were galactic guardians of peace, as explained in ANH, and they just happend to use the Force to do it, and were responsible for taking care of those who would use it for evil, as they were the only ones really capable. The beauty was in that simplicity, but with the preuqel stuff, it added a lot of long-windedness and many contradictions in the franchise, and even as you say, contradicting statements from Lucas himself. This really is what has caused these issues as the prequels was the first time Jedi were made out to be more of a religious order who "worshipped" the Force as it were, as opposed to just training to use it as spiritual warriors and galactic guardians.
A lot of these things of course have been tried to explained away in that it was the "religions" (Jedi/Sith etc) who had it wrong and were always contradicting themselves and changing their ways of thinking over the years.
You could say Star Wars has become quite “meta” on this topic, as the gaping difference between the Prequel Jedi and Orignal Trillogy Jedi (due to bad writing continutiy) has actually been expressed “in-universe” in Star Wars lore. If one looks into the “Expanded Universe” of Star Wars, the original way of the Jedi did allow for the experience of all emotions and attachments before the code of “no emotions” was introduced to the Jedi Order.
In a sense the writers of the Expanded Universe took what happend to the films and artistically expressed it by converting the real life situation into a cannonised story which tells the tale of how “in the beginning” (refering to the in-universe Star Wars timeline, which cleverly mirrors the “in the beginning of Star Wars” in real life) the Jedi freely expressed all emotions and accepted attachment and later in time, from a few thousand years after the formation of the Jedi Order, became emotionless monks who lived in hypocrisy. (The first Jedi mantra vs the The Jedi Code of Odan-Urr).
So, in the end, if we were to speak on Star Wars in either the “in-universe” or “out of universe” context, you could say my ideal Jedi were the “original Jedi” and concept on the Force…
But on the subject of the understanding of balance, I've always understood it as you've explained it, mostly. I've always seen the natural Force as "the light" and the Darkside as its cancer, and that balance was "the Light keeping the Dark at bay".
There are also very early quotes from Lucas saying that balance meant "all Light", but he often changes his stance and statements on things in several areas (such as saying in the 2000s he planned the prequels when he wrote the OT, but he said in the 1970s SW was going to be a standalone movie with no sequel planned, and a lot later he said in the 2010s that his key was to success was making it all up as he went along and just "pretending" and telling people it was planned all along. So I can never fully trust his statements or visions on these things, because they are always all over the place).
Funny thing is thor kind of contradicts himslef here as well. Although I think that jedi were always a religous order but rather what type of order chanhed over time.
Thanos: "You underestimate my power!"
Adam Warlock: "Don't try it!"
Maul: "I have the high ground!"
Haha, it does often feel like talking in a circle when discussing dialectics/yin yang stuff, but I think you got the hang of it.
There's a lot of Jungian psychology in the concepts you discussed too, since the balance, the push and pull is an inner battle over our nature. In this sense, you can see Star Wars as a purely inner psychological hero's journey.
Balance of The Force to me, means 100% pure Light. Because, (before Snoke was introduced), Anakin brought balance to the Force by sacrificing himself to get rid of the last Sith; leaving only the Light Side alive. If you know what I mean.
You are in fact correct.
It is only using the light side while acknowledging the dark side and only acting on "tumors" of it rather than actively trying to snuff out anything considered "bad"..
@@thatblondboy007 not in fact in opinion
@@anteprs7908 No, it's fact. It's been explicitly stated in Legends, Canon and by George Lucas himself. No room for debate.
@@thatblondboy007 not in legends and since the bendu and tlj also not in canon in legends the first balanced order where the ancestors of the jedi the jedaii
The notion that Windu dabbled in the dark side isn’t because of his lightsaber, but due to the EU establishing that he was a master of a lightsaber form (Vapaad, I think?), the seventh form, and that form was a combination of light and dark disciplines.
In regards to jedi and balance, I still believe that the prequel jedi overall contributed to imbalance. Qui Gon certainly exemplified what a jedi should be, and as a jedi he seemed to be the exception to the rule compared to what the rest of the jedi were. Qui Gon wasn’t on the council, he didn’t necessarily hold to the way the council wanted to do things. Yoda himself described him as defiant. I think there was some truth in what Palpatine said about the jedi fearing losing their power. I think they went down the path of absolutism they focused on maintaining their influence at the cost of neglecting their purpose of achieving harmony and following the will of the force. They also had imbalance within themselves by refusing very natural things such as love and attachments, but again that could fall into absolutism since they saw no path to having this without falling. Like the sith, their absolutism was the easier path since it required less discipline than achieving harmony and created more internal conflict when it couldn’t be followed, rather than just being treated as a natural part of existence. Vader wiping them out was necessary to the goal of restoring balance.
Luke at the end if ROTJ also stands apart from the other jedi. He did not forbid attachments but acted on them. He did so without falling, and in doing so he benefited all and achieved harmony within himself. He was in effect a true jedi as they were meant to be.
The Je'daii Order was an ancient organization unified by its belief and observance of the Force on the planet Tython, in the galaxy's Deep Core. Focusing on maintaining a balance in the Force, a state at which Tython was itself hospitable, the Je'daii saw the Force as three aspects of a whole; the Ashla (light), the Bogan (Dark), and the Bendu (balance). They saw this duality in the Force represented in the night sky of Tython in the form of two natural satellites; one bathed in light, the Ashla, another shrouded in darkness, the Bogan. In keeping with their view of balance, Je'daii who fell too far to either the light or dark were exiled to the opposite moon to meditate until they returned to balance.
Great video as usual, Thor. There are some things I'd like to add, though.
1.) I believe that the balance between selfishness and selflessness is incomplete and asymmetrical. The true negative to selflessness is narcissism, because a selfless person cares so much about others they will even act to the detriment of themselves. A narcissist, on the other hand, does the opposite.
2.) With either balance in mind, I don't think simply choosing when to drift to one side or the other is good for anyone. It often makes people untrustworthy and hypocritical.
3.) What I think is best is to be driven by mutual self-interest. This means that one should do what's best for them and aid others if they really need help. By sacrificing only as much as necessary, one isn't as weakened or distracted by others' conflicts and has the energy and the means to better themselves; and when those others learn not to need them as much, they'll have the chance to become stronger as well.
4.) That balance is one of many that subconsciously calculate our actions and even our fate. These balances in aggregate affect what I call the Balance of Life, which weighs growth against decay and evens out with stagnation.
5.) I believe the Force adheres to and mimics the Balance of Life, and the Dark Side is its opposite. This would be the Balance of the Force.
6.) Since, as Yoda put it, life creates it and makes it grow, if you were to balance it with the Dark Side, it would live and grow but ultimately decay and die.
7.) I believe that when the Balance of the Force acts on the Balance of Life in addition to imitating it, equilibrium can take many forms. To a Jedi, the best form is when the Dark Side is completely outweighed.
8.) The reason being that the Jedi Code states that "There is no death, there is the Force." The ultimate goal for a Jedi should then be the extinction of death and for life to eternally grow and prosper unabated. From that point of view, paradoxical as it may seem, for death to have no weight on the scale is for life as a whole to be in perfect balance.
9.) Finally, to piggyback off of your analogy, such a balance would be like curing cancer, and to cure all illness and disease would be the key to eternal life.
Look forward to the next video. May the Force be with you!
Great explanation. The way I think of balance is like this: a lot of people visualize it as a scale, where the light side is on one side and the dark side is on the other. I think it is more appropriate to view it as a ball sitting on top of a hill, where the top of the hill is the light side, and the bottom of the hill is the dark side. Both exist naturally and are an inherent part of the force, but the ball is in balance when it is sitting on top of the hill. The dark side is constantly tempting us and trying to pull us down (there's a reason they call it "falling" to the dark side). It is easy to fall to the dark side - the ball just needs to roll a little bit - but it is difficult to stay at the top and serve the light side, as you need to be aware of the darkness below and keep making adjustments to avoid falling into it (aka discipline). When the force is in balance, the dark side cannot take over, although it exists, and life and the force are able to exist symbiotically, with life and the force feeding into each other.
I don't know about any specific quotes from Lucas, but Mace Windu's character is explained in legends as having an inherent darkness within himself that is stronger than usual for most other Jedi. Hence the purple lightsaber (in-universe). His personal fighting style and philosophy is built around channelling that inner darkness and evil away from his soul, for lack of a better word. Vaapad, his lightsaber form, is built around the idea of using an opponents aggression and darkness against them by redirecting it through himself back at them. This is why he is one of the only Jedi that could defeat Sidious, as Palpatine's own power in the dark side was essentially being used against him. Again, not sure what George Lucas has said about all that, but that is what I understand about his character from the lore stuff that is out there.
I was going to mention this until I saw your comment, and everyone he taught it to turned to the darkside right, because it was too strong or something?
gerrit kay Mace was no jedi but more grey jedi then ever. Or dark jedi. The only true jedi's in the prequels were anakin and qui gon and yoda,obiwan later on. and then luke
While there may not be any direct Lucas confirmation of Mace using the dark side, he most definitely used it during his fight with Sidious in Episode III. If only because he was willing to violently stop Sidious without consideration for the institutions he is sworn to protect. "He is too dangerous to be kept alive." This line is purposely mirroring Sidious' temptation of Anakin to kill Dooku, and as close as we have to Lucas saying, "Mace used the dark side to defeat Sidious." When you reflect on the prequels, Mace definitely represents the corruption of the Jedi as an institution. So, the idea "Mace can use the dark side without being corrupted" doesn't seem to be true, at least if you consider only the films. Mace IS corrupted by the dark side. It doesn't manifest openly until, ironically, Sidious's corruption is revealed. It is why the duel between the two was important in the film. They are both dark side users at this point, only difference is that Sidious acknowledges he is using the dark side.
The Jedi in the Prequels didn't try to destroy the dark side. If anything, they didn't care enough about the dark side. They knew that a powerful dark side entity was present, yet they didn't do much investigating. They occasionally sent home a death stick dealer to rethink his life, but they didn't do much beyond that. They even participated in war: can you get more dark side than that?
I wonder if the balance was disrupted after the father, daughter, and son died.
I think that's a great question. What were the ramifications of their deaths?
@@thorskywalker I dont know... I wish they hadnt inttoduced the trio. It just doesn't feel right for me.
Luckily. Whenevrr I do anything RPG related in starwars, I can ignore everything since they are unknown.
I don't thing so it seams more like a preview on Anakins remaining live.
With the Daughters death through manipulation of the Son mirroring the end of the Jedi throw Palaptin's manipulations.
And the Fathers sacrifices to save everyone else mirroring Vaders sacrifice to save luke.
I thing the Father even said that the chosen one brought balance to Mordis
Ya think?!
I think they were merely personifications of the force. I don't think they actually affected the universe. They only affected the Mortis realm.
What about Thor's attack on expanding my mind?
I have always seen The Force as such: You influence it with your Heart.
Give Love, Compasion, Honor, Kindness and it shall become Light. Give it Hate, Fear, Negativity, so shall it become Dark.
Being a Jedi, to me, was about having a Kind Heart and a Strong Spirit. I have learned that feom Qui-Gon Jinn...
Dark Side is something that will always return in the world in one for or another. That is why Light Side must always fight it.
That is what's so beautiful about Star Wars - The Force has strong Universal fundamentals that many interpretations are all correct. So long as the core of it is there.
It is also the reason I absolutly LOVE the idea of a Lightsaber color atunned to your Resonans to The Force. A representation of your Heart and Soul.
The desctruction of that is Bleeding the crystal. An unnatural, horrifing creation of the Dark Side.
That is what Star Wars and The Force were and always will be to me.
Brilliant. Finally someone clarifies the misunderstanding of balance over the oft' misrepresented equality. Thank you.
Without light there is only darkness, without darkness there is only light. Without one to contrast the other, how can we determine balance? A scale with equal weight on both sides is in balance; a scale with no weight on either side is in balance. Weighted either way, the scale shifts so the side with less on it rises.
You deserve as many subscribers as Star Wars Theory.
I believe Mace Windu do not use the dark side, but rather using his emotions to fuel his power at times. This leads to a slightly more aggressive style of fighting and use of the force, that is not the same as using the dark side of the force. He uses passion and emotion to empower himself, but as far as we know, that is the extent of it.
“Fear is the path to the dark side…fear leads to anger…anger leads to hate…hate leads to suffering.”
- Yoda in The Phantom Menace
I consider this to be the "How to fall 101": You start fearing something. Fear leads to frustration and anger. Anger leads you to hate something. The hate causes suffering. I would consider the pivoting point as the anger turning to hate.
"Good. I can feel your anger. I am defenseless. Take your weapon! Strike me down with all your hatred, and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!"
- Sheev Palpatine in The return of the Jedi.
Based on these quotes I believe that anger is the preceding step before the dark side, inherently similar, but not quite the same. If so, it is not too strange that some people might believe Windu to be a practitioner of certain elements of the dark side. He uses anger, but never hatred to empower himself almost like the Sith. *Almost* This is also why his form in combat and his abilities look more like those of a sith and why very few jedi are ever seen to use it. In exchange for power, you have to balance on a knife's edge and if one loses control, that would lead to a fall to the dark side.
This is similar to how I would ideally use the force. Stay more in the light side but understand that the dark side will sometimes give better results. The key is know when to stop using the dark side in a particular situation (which since different scenarios have different factors means the extent the dark side should be used will vary).
My personal philosophy in life is that you should seek balance within yourself...
If you are mostly selfless, you'll end up being used by selfish people, so you need to learn how to be selfish to a certain degree, so you can defend yourself from selfish people and not let them stomp you, but if you become mostly selfish, you end up keeping good people away from your life.
I know this because I've been in both sides of the coin and lived these very same experiences, and when you live by extremes, your life is always unbalanced.
This is why you see good people trying to learn Martial Arts, "If they are good people, why do they need to learn the art of hurting people?" so they can learn how to defend themselves or the ones they love from the people who really wants to hurt them.
This is balance!
This confirms what I thought as an armchair Star wars fan. That force-users like Qui-Gon jinn are neither Yin nor Yang but the circle that encompasses the two....
Qui-Gon was a pure Jedi and follower of the light. He has no association with the dark side.
@@thatblondboy007 he was seen as a grey jedi (before there was a name for it so well use this label) due to his disagreements with the council and uses of the force/involvement with normies. Him and mace windu are the closest things to grey jedi in canon
@@fanzirelli Grey Jedi shouldn't even be a phrase. It undermines what it means to be a true Jedi. Qui Gon strictly followed the will of the Force making him a truly *Balanced*Jedi. The rest of the Jedi listened to the Republic rather than the Force. Which is why the Jedi fell.
@@hysuka2 thank you!
other world explorers qui gon is not grey but pure jedi. The prequels were idiotic jedis.
I like your balance diet analogy.
From all I've seen and read I feel the biggest misunderstandings is the belief that balance in the force has to do with an amount, as it seems to me that the trick to finding balance lies not in how much, but why, how, where, and when, just as anger, and even hate has its place, so to does the dark side, and so long as they stay in their proper place, the amount dose not matter, after all you can hate drunk drivers with every fiber of your being, but its only when said hate leads you to harm others, as opposed to making a legally required device that prevents drunk driving, does it become a problem
I would say it's being selfless with intelligence. It's not selfishness to take care of yourself if you're motivation is simply to make sure you're capable to give to others. Selfishness is putting your wants over others needs. Putting your immediate needs before others not as immediate needs is not selfish. It's about seeing yourself neither better nor worse than others. Selfishness is a focus on ones wants and desires. And your focus determines your reality.
Your analyse is an illumination to my appreciation of the franchise. Thank you for getting so deeply into the psychology of this universe, I’ve been a fan of it for 15 years now, but you’re still helping me understand new concepts. Wonderful video
The failure of the Jedi, in my opinion, is that they’re existence created dependence in the Old/Galactic Republic. By constantly trying to help those in need, it made the Republic weak by having mass demilitarization coupled with multiple systems relying solely on the Jedi for ending disputes. The Jedi would likely function best divorced from Intergalactic politics and economics, where, as in the real world, radical self-interest is rewarded.
I also personally believe that Lucas, despite his vision for Star Wars, failed to fully develop the philosophy of the Jedi and the Sith. The Jedi are supposed to be about ridding oneself of attachment, yet at the end of RoTJ, Luke redeems Vader by pulling him back to the “Light” by using their family bond. This is the polar opposite of the traditional Jedi philosophy, where a Father-Son relationship would have been harshly condemned due to forming emotional attachment. The development of the Sith is even more limited. Palpatine is portrayed as an all evil, irredeemable figure. He is only interested in himself, and gaining personal power in the Force. However, this means that Palpatine is devoid of attachments. He doesn’t love anybody. He murdered his family, saw Vader as a pawn, and is detached from the idea of millions of people dying at his hand. He, in his twisted mind, fulfills the Jedi imperative of having no attachments and seeking wisdom in the Force, the only problem being that he seeks it in the Dark Side.
These philosophical inconsistencies have led me to conclude that Lucas, when he wrote the OT and the Prequels, had no defined parameters for what was explicitly Light and Dark. He instead took an approach where if the result of some proposed philosophical tenet was bad, then it is Dark Side. An example for this would be Anakin’s attachment to Padme leading to his betrayal of the Jedi. If the result is a “happy ending”, then it is Light Side. This would be Luke redeeming Vader through their bond. Love is Dark Side, then it’s Light Side, all varying upon context. That means that based on the context that Lucas is writing from, the parameters of what is considered Light and Dark, and hence what is considered balanced is shifting constantly throughout the narrative.
I don't think he was inconsistent. George Lucas made it clear that compassion and love are part of the light side. Selfish love is a path to the dark side. Anakin was willing to sacrifice the entire jedi order to save Padmé because he was afraid to let go of her. The dark actions he took corrupted his love for her. Anakin was redeemed because he saved Luke out of a more selfless love. He was willing to sacrifice himself to save his son. He was being selfless not selfish.
Ty 1501 The Jedi Code is all about forgoing emotion. They literally have a line where it says, “There is no emotion, there is peace.” If love is an emotion, then it is a tenant of the Jedi to reject it.
@@yahwhey2392 The Jedi are allowed to feel emotion so long as they are able to control their feelings and keep their emotions from endangering themselves and others. If Jedi were to forgo emotions and feelings, they would have to forgo compassion which would be fundamentally wrong for them. The Jedi Code was created to help them resist anger and fear, not all emotions. Jedi are not supposed to develop romantic love or attachments or any individual bonds because they may become possessive of these attachments and they become selfish and this selfishness would lead to fear of loss and fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering. They would be on the path to the dark side.
13:50
We have the son representing dark and the daughter light and God in the middle making it work even through the darkness. This shows the force is not just a radiating power but has a mind behind it all. It connects us all as we are bound to each other through our souls which are connected to the source our Guide and benefactor.
Without our guide it is chaos and the light and dark blur.
The concept of The Force itself doesn't fit neatly into metaphorical truths - at least those bequeathed to us through mythology and religion. The reason it ended up that way was simply just the fact that Lucas was telling a story. Fine. In Mythology and religions, both sides of most things have good and evil within them. Yin is dark, chaos, nature, and water - being both the source of all life as well as its destruction. Yang is light, order, and structure - being both the source of all culture, tools and security as well as the tyranny or stagnation that kills it. The force is not fleshed out as fully as that. But Lucas wrote scripts and made movies so we can give him some margin here.
Your theory that some Jedi can and do use the dark side to some extent finally made my mind okay with why Kyle Katarn and his Student in the Jedi Knight games use light and dark side powers (such as healing, choke etc) without being considered Sith. Thank you! That bugged me for 15 years.
You're very welcome.
Can we just ask why a bunch of warrior monks were running around the galaxy putting down rebellions? It wasn’t really their job to decide the morality and legitimacy of secessionist planets that feel mistreated and abused
Something that might be interesting to look at is Stoic philosophy. I find that whenever a discussion comes to 'what would Jedi philosophy say about this?' looking at what the Stoics say gives an answer that is completely in line with what we know about the Jedi.
I wouldn't be surprised if Lucas copy/pasted their thoughts on emotions for the Jedi, they match that closely. Especially interesting is that they tend to get the exact same accusations about being emotionless and how that's a bad thing and their rebuttal to it also seems exactly what a Jedi would say if accused of being emotionless.
On Mortis, the son was not completely dark yet. The father wanted to keep the balance, by keeping his children in check, but he didn't want the son to turn to the dark side. So, balance is more like what you describe here: acknowledging the dark but embracing it.
Perhaps a better example than cancer is a parasitic relationship vs a beneficial symbiotic relationship.
All parasites are symbiotic, its whether they are mutually beneficial to both organisms. Where a parasitic organism is usually referring to one organism using the relationship @the expense of the host.
Whether that better exemplifies the light/dark dichotomy... you Thor are better versed in that than I am. So is your audience, of which I am only one member! So I happily take criticism to further this idea!
cheers!
I have always seen it as the force is not good or bad. It’s how people use it that decides if it is good or evil. It like electricity. Electricity is totally neutral. It’s the user of electricity that can use it for good or ill. The Jedi practiced staying pure because they had access to a much higher level of the force. When someone fell to the dark side, they too had access to much more or the force then the average person, but they used the force for ill because it was easier which had repercussions like a cancer.
The interesting thing about Mortis is that balance is brought about by completely destroying the dark and the light, and leaving no more force. Perhaps this means that the force itself is inherently chaotic, something that does not really belong in the physical world, and the only way to truly get balance is via its utter removal.
That would be some Legend of Korra type shit and I hate it haha.
Kreia was the hero all along.
Also that doesn't sound possible, wouldn't there just be force sensitives that keep getting born?
Kreia wants to know your location
This video reminded me of the movie Inside out. During the beginning of the movie, the main protagonist, Joy, thinks that joy is the only good emotion and the only emotion that humans are allowed to feel, therefore she keeps the other character, Sadness, in the distance so that Riley (the character they are controlling) can't feel sadness, which causes her universe to fall apart and a lot of problems in her mind. Once joy realizes that we need sadness to feel empathy for others, and that sometimes it takes a sad moment to take people together, Joy lets Sadness fix everything so that she destroyed so that Riley can express her true feelings, which fixes everything. It's good to feel sad for someone else so that we can show empathy and help them, but it's not good to be sad all the time because then you just bring everyone down and it affects you in your everyday life.
I prefer when the Force is presented as balanced, as Ying and Yang, not as good and evil. You cant have a society without balance between order and disorder, change and preservation, selfishness and selflessness. The Dark side isnt evil, it's just easy to get addicted to and use too much of. That's the way I like to think of it anyway.
It is always a King Arthur-like scenario. Like Arthur's rightful kingdom, after centuries of unworthy kings, represents balance in the Land, so does Luke's in the Galaxy and in the Force, after centuries of unworthy Jedi. And it is in fact brought by Anakin, as the prophecy says, because he both gives Luke life, by being his father, and saves said life, by killing the Emperor. Even the Sequel trilogy actually fits in with this, because the period of balance brought by King Arthur is not eternal. It is, and I quote, "a brief beginning, a fair time that cannot be forgotten. And because it won't be forgotten, it may come again".
So we could say that balance in the Force is a temporary elimination of the Dark Side, an example of what mankind (or alienkind, anyway) could be at its full potential. But it can't last forever. Not yet.
Thank you master for teaching the ways of the FORCE
And apparently the last jedi seems to say that what we understand about the force lore is wrong.
Balance in the force is the light side playing whack-a-mole with the dark side. It's a never-ending task, and on occasion a mole will get loose and eat the hammer, the player, and then trash the arcade.
Balance to me is being part of the Light Side but not completely shunning or ignoring Dark Side traits (anger, pride, etc.) like the Prequel Jedis did.
Great video Thor....you explained the balance perfectly.
Ahhhhhh, nice to see some good Star Wars content...about Star Wars.
The fact it's quicker and easier is a huge dark side advantage. Perhaps one could even become twice as powerful and destructive in half the time with half the effort invested as a Sith. If this stuff existed , dark side would be the best path to power if others shunned it, unless one had a yoda lifespan. Obviously, that is a pretty huge reason why even a jedi would be tempted by this .
I think the thought that mace uses the dark side also stems from the fact that he uses some dark side techniques. For example, his “force crush” which he uses on general greivous in the clone wars series, which is official Lucas
I think it’s also said somewhere that vaapad, mace’s style, is designed based on the absorption and reflection of the dark side’s hate, but I don’t remember where.
What's your opinion on the idea of the force and the dark side not necessarily good and bad but two sides of the same coin in the same as politics or parties?
Lucas himself has said the sides of the Force are not inherently "good" and "evil".... just that there is a side we view as "good" and one that we view as "bad". Both are necessary parts to make up the greater whole.
No, there's no room for interpretation. The light brings balance, the dark brings imbalance. Those are facts and can't be argued over. Balance was achieved when the Sith were destroyed and the Jedi reigned.
thatblondboy 00 I would amend your statement only to add the word "using" the dark side causes imbalance.
@@thorskywalker True, sorry. I reply to so many comments I have to cut things short. The darkness isn't inherently evil, yet the use of such is. I commented earlier with a link to a longer text I wrote on Quora, explaining what you just replied.
This makes me wish that the force awakens was about Luke taking it upon himself to shoulder the full balance of the force. To continue in his fathers footsteps and become the ultimate gray Jedi, balancing the light and the dark. He takes this on after the founding of his academy and in his hubris doesn’t account for the increase in the light from his school and falls to the dark side as the scales tip. Upon his fall he would destroy his academy and his students taking Kylo as his apprentice. Rey would be the new hope to end the tyranny of another skywalker needing to become insanely powerful to combat Luke, the new trilogy would focus around her trying to defeat or redeem Luke and Kylo and regain a balance.
Have you considered that this may be why Qui-Gon often gets called a Grey Jedi, not because of the powers he uses but because he listens to the force as a whole, rather than focusing on the dark or light?
As another thought, can dark side techniques be used without actually giving in to the dark side? For example would Yoda be able to use force lightning without tapping into the dark side but chooses not to because the pain it inflicts is distasteful?
14:04 - NOBODY EXPECTS THE JEDI INQUISITION! :) WRT Windu dabbling in the Dark Side, I think a pretty good case could be made that the darkness in him was a factor in Anakin turning to the Dark Side. His cold, hostile demeanor helped drive a wedge between Anakin and the Jedi, and his order to kill Palpatine--quoting Palpatine's words when ordering Anakin to kill Dooku, no less--arguably created an equivalence between Jedi and Sith in Anakin's mind ("I think the Jedi are evil."). So yeah, if we grant that Windu walked the "Grey" line, maybe he shouldn't have? ;)
I thought Windu was in danger of falling; he thought he stood on solid ground but he was actually sinking, so to speak. In Phantom Menace, he is easily shown to be one of the most arrogant Jedi on the council; arguing that, "[he did] not believe the Sith could return without [the Jedi Council] knowing about it", and, in Revenge of the Sith, when he finds out that Palpatine is the Sith Lord, he decides that, given Palpatine's position in the Republic, trying to bring him to justice the right way would be too difficult, and he instead opts for arrest + assassination: the darker, quick and easy path.
He was not far enough down the road that he would have become a Sith, but he was far enough down the road that he dangerously echoed some of their stuff. After all, what was it that finally pushed Anakin over the edge? Windu saying about Palpatine: "He's too powerful to be kept alive", the same thing that Palpatine said about Dooku.
Along with the multiple explanations in the video; what if Jedis use primarily the Light because (as mentioned in this video) using the Dark can make you succumb to it. If the 2 sides are like a tog-o-war, it is easier to keep balance standing from the Light than from the Dark.
I think you pretty much summed up why the Jedi do just use the light.
It’s not selfishness to take care of yourself- rather it’s essential to being truely selfless.
For me I always saw the concept of Windu being able to channel the darkside as a way using some evil accomplish good things. Doing some wrong for the right reasons. Like killing Palpatine. Murder may be wrong but killing a being who would bring ruin to the galaxy is a right to me.
Sith is not the dark side. It is a religion of the dark side.
Darkness is the absence of light. They are not opposites. If you think in terms of vibration or frequency of words, thoughts, emotions or objects, and combine that with the fact that everything is energy, there is no such thing as total darkness, except in nothing.
A lot of people seem to have a problem reading through the lines with the Windu v. Sidious fight. Sidious threw the fight with Mace Windu intentionally at just the right moment to force both Windu's hand (lol get it) and Anikan's hand. I honestly don't think the fight taxed him much at all to be quite honest. He spanked Yoda the next day, meaning he fought the former and current leader of the Jedi council and had time to make the republic and empire in the span of two days. Sidious sent Anikan to Windu on purpose while Yoda was off planet to face Windu alone (lol at the other Jedi present) he knew he could beat Windu, but he needed Windu to be corrupted by the Dark Side during the fight and try to kill him and he waited until Anikan was about to walk in before he did it. I'm honestly shocked at how many people miss this.
Also, book:
Palpatine still made no move to defend himself from Skywalker; instead he ramped up the lightning bursting from his hands, bending the fountain of Mace's blade back toward the Korun Master's face. [...] This was beyond Vaapad; he had no strength left to fight against his own blade. [...] Mace's blade bent so close to his face that he was choking on ozone. "Anakin, he's too strong for me-" "Ahhh-" Palpatine's roar above the endless blast of lightning became a fading moan of despair. The lightning swallowed itself, leaving only the night and the rain, and an old man crumpled to his knees on a slippery ledge. "I... can't. I give up. I... I am too weak, in the end. Too old, and too weak. Don't kill me, Master Jedi. Please. I surrender."
Too late for me to have seen this video but the belief that light -good and dark - evil is one of the reasons Easterners have limited love for SW. Yin and Yang are complimentary not opposites and you have to have both. To think it is okay to have one is like trying to have water with just the Oxygen. Lucus often changes his POV on the Force. The idea of balance with only the light side - this causes an issue of “imbalance” in episode 6 for some people for this reason.
The fun thing is the best views on the Force were done with the characters of Karia and Bindo in the SWOR. Agree or not with them it is very thoughtful stuff. My POV
OK ... answer this, if you may: for someone sensitive to, or with ability in, The Force, is it prima facie necessary for that entity to be in the Jedi, else that entity is considered "going to the dark side". Ahsoka could be one example. She proclaims to Anakin, "I am no Jedi" but why only her? I also do not believe Luke, as portrayed in the Sequels, was any kind of "Jedi" as was conceived prior to the Purge/Order66. Which is why he considered himself ineligible to teach Rey (and because he considered killing Ben). So, if in episode 9 we see Rey attempt to use the old books (leave aside how she might even be able to read them) to jumpstart the Jedi and enlist other Force-sensitive entities in the Galaxy, is this not also doomed to failure - or should we expect the "force ghosts" (Yoda, ObiWan, Anakin, QuiGon,etc) to be on "speed-dial" (in a cosmic-sense-of-the-Force) to be able to assist as needed in a consulting role?
It is said the Force has a will, it has a destiny for us all. I wield it, but it uses us all, and that is abhorrent to me. Because I hate the Force. I hate that it seems to have a will, that it would control us to achieve some measure of balance, when countless are lost.
- Darth Traya
Like a poem that rhymes, how many times have we seen the Star Wars galaxy get ripped apart for this attempt of obtaining "balance" in the Force? Countless times. The Great Hyperspace war. The Mandalorian War. The Jedi Civil War. The Galactic War. The Clone Wars. The Galactic Civil War. (And whatever the fuck is going on the sequels.)
How many wars will it take for the Force to achieve "balance?" How many lives? Is it truly a one time event that all of these wars and deaths have led up to? Or has every time millions die in these wars that Force achieve balance, only to allow another Dark Side do whatever he/she pleases for ANOTHER period of time?
In the end, we may never see this quest for "balance" be fulfilled. The Force will continue to toy around with it's toys that are the people that populate the galaxy. It will continue to create villains and conflicts, only for some other "Chosen One" to "ultimately bring balance to the Force" for 100th time, and each time make said heroes and villains more ridiculous than the last. Each time making these wars and deaths MORE meaningless than the ones before!
That! That is abhorrent to me.
I think people like the term grey jedi as a distinction between the prequel order and the order Luke could have created after the fall of the empire. The prequel jedi talked a lot about balance, but had kind of a skewed idea of what it meant (balance as a uniform goal for all beings rather than dynamic and individual to each person).
@Thor Skywalker Your comparison of murder vs death is a good one, but the dark side would be more akin to murder than death. Death is natural, it’s a part of life as Yoda put it. The dark side is the imbalance.
Watch “the failure of the grey Jedi” video here on YT if you are confused on how the force works.
The light side is just a shorthand for zen/enlightenment - the sacrifice of oneself to serve the force itself. The inverse (dark side) is sacrificing oneself for the sake of power.
We have this “middle path” wish fulfillment because we are human and want to reconcile the concept of the individual with the virtue of the Jedi. And while it is possible in our world, it is not quite applicable to Star Wars because of the existence of the force. You either surrender yourself to the will of the force, or allow yourself freedom to form attachments and one day turn to the dark enacting your passions protecting something you care about
So: The dark side is fine, but users of it are inherently bad.
Meaning all dark side users are wrong.
And light side users that accept the will of the force are good.
Great, so nothing on the surface changes, it's just the mechanics.
Great video my dude! Interesting perspective
Windu use Vaapad (form 7) lightsaber style which he created. At its peak level it taps into the dark side.
I noticed something as I was watching episode 2 last night. In one scene with Sidious and Dooku, Sidious calls Dooku "Lord" Tyrannus. I had always thought Dooku was an apprentice, but could it be that they are both masters during that timeline?
Yes he refers to darth vader interchangeably as Lord Vader many times too
Windu used light saber technique Vaapad, which turns an enemies dark side energy against them in essence. I don't think he necessarily used dark side abilities. But not 100% on that one.
@10:10 Jedi acting to maintain balance. That would ultimately involve killing "cancer" to individuals to save balance, but Jedi are taught not to murder. Also in some cases they would need to allow cruelty to run rampant. It's a big phylosophical rabbit hole that I can't type out on a phone sry.
the movies reveal the secret to balance. Qui-Gon tells us, the very ROLE of the Jedi Knight is to interpret the "will of the force" and act this out on the macroscopic world. Quigon's mantra was "follow the will of the force" -- Qui-gon uses-the-force-to-enact-the-will-of-the-force -- and Qui-Gon is rewarded with immortality for his actions. This reveals qui-gon's mantra to be the "correct path". Plain and simple. A Jedi who uses-the-force-to-enact-the-will-of-the-force, brings balance to the force (and is rewarded with immortality); a Jedi who uses the force "against-its-will" brings imbalance to the force (and is destroyed by the Chosen One); and a "Jedi Order" who is SWORN to follow the will of corrupt and evil politicians at all costs... (even when the senate is ruled by a Sith Lord)... brings imbalance, by its very existence. The secret to "balance" is: separation of church and state.
The Jedi Order caused imbalance in the force, when it swore an oath to enact the will of the senate, at all costs. This happened a thousand generations ago. By the time of TPM, it is far too late. The Jedi Order have no interest in the "will of the force" anymore (as evidenced by Qui-Gon's arc in TPM). Qui-gon pleaded with them, to follow the will of the force, but the Jedi order rolled their eyes at him. They chose instead, to follow the "Will of the Senate", to the bitter end -- (Obi-wan:"My Allegiance Is To Democracy") -- Even when the senate was SHOWN to be corrupt and dysfunctional in the expository senate scenes of TPM (scenes which nobody wants to watch nor acknowledge nor even consider), the Jedi Order did not care -- they were sworn to uphold the Will of the Senate, even at the cost of Galactic War. They were "government agents", first and foremost. They ignored the will of the force -- they rolled their eyes, at Qui-Gon's "path-to-immortality" -- they followed ONLY the Will of the Senate.
After a thousand generations of enduring this abuse, "the force" responded in self defense. The force spawned its Chosen One, to wipe out ANYONE who was using the force "against-its-will". This included the entire Jedi Order, the younglings in the temple, and yes! even the the Sith Lord himself. NONE of these force users were following the Will of the Force anymore, like Qui-Gon's example -- and Anakin killed them ALL. (Even the senate, itself, was disbanded). In the end: the only one left is Luke.
Luke was taught a different version: "let go your conscious self" and "let the force guide your actions" (aka:"follow the will of the force"). Once ALL force users in the galaxy are free to "follow the will of the force" again, THIS brings balance to the force. The secret to "balance" is separation of church and state. A Jedi who uses-the-force-to-enact-the-will-of-the-force, brings balance to the force; a Jedi who uses the force "against-its-will" brings imbalance. Plain and Simple.
I always think what would happen if the force did exist.
Disclaimer: this is assuming the Foce would never seek a balance irl.
If the force ever did exist almost nobody would be a Jedi. A few would try but fail miserably and a few would fail but not fall to the dark side to the extreme evil level (they'd never reach their full force potential though). From what I understand of the Jedi code to be one you have to really shut off a lot of emotions or at least ignore them.
Also
Personally when I got into the Old Republic MMO I always liked the idea of dark side users that never went to the comically evil level but didn't have a nerf. Though that's just me wishing the "light side is stronger" rule didn't exist : v
I think revan is the best example of balance.. I hope they tell his story in cannon, hell il take a cameo
Well done. Best explanation for this. Your really starting to win me over to the idea that the grey jedi aren't a thing.
13:00 You're right. The Jedi should act like The Father. The Daughter will stay her hand for the greater good, and the Son doesn't care and will try to defeat the Father (the jedi) so he can fulfill his destructive pursuits freely
At the end it all became clear! This was a good one and balance is so important to Star Wars!
When i get a compelling reason for why too much light is inherently bad, then, and only then will i accept "balance" to be a perfect mix of both. Until then, light side is the natural and pure state of the Force.
This will always be a difficult topic because we constantly apply our human mortality to a universal force that has no such morals. Everything has a purpose in the universe. If the force itself has a dark side then it is meant to be used or it wouldn't exist.
All I'm saying is bendu the way off both equally balanced not just light not just dark but a user using the force using both ashla ( dark ) and Bogan ( light ) with out being corrupted to evil being good being balance being like the father ( from mortis arc in clone wars ) using the force in its entirety but remaining balanced
To me, the Jedi and the Sith were opposite extremes, mutually exclusive, and constantly at war with each other. I really wished that 'The Last Jedi' was about Luke finally finding a way to balance BOTH within himself at that temple of light/dark, thus creating a new path for initiates and ending the galaxy-spanning wars between these extreme perspectives. He would no longer fear emotions, he could embrace his humanity, and he would not be corrupted by the dark side when he uses it. This was my idea of "balance", and would explain why no real concept of balance has ever really taken hold.
The truth is balance has always been a circle, anything in the circle is on the light side of the force and in balance. Anything on the outside is the dark side and out of balance.
Light = Pills
Dark = Germs
Sith =Sick People
Jedi = Doctor
Episode 4-6 Started with a Sickness and Ended in Heath.
Episode 1-3 Started with a Doctor finding A Zombie boy and teaching him to be like one of them ,and ended with two Zombies running the Galaxy.
I can talk about episode 7 to 9 because it is not finished.
That is why I like Revan and Jolie Bindo
There is unmerited mercy. And there is just anger and death. The light is thus not more just than the dark but both must be used according to a well trained conscience, using in balance love justice and wisdome. -to apply this metaphor to the real world as you did in the closing sentences. That is why perhaps the father is not presented as only using the light side and maul's and Vader's defeat necessitated the dark side's use. sometime lucus gets it right despite his own best efforts.
Mace Windu used a special form of lightsaber combat called Vapaad. It involved using the dark side energy of his opponent to strengthen himself, without letting the darkness consume him.