ATC: "POSSIBLE PILOT DEVIATION": A heated argument between ATC and the pilot.
Вставка
- Опубліковано 7 лют 2025
- I need your support to keep these videos coming, it's really important and appreciated.
Join this channel to get access to the perks:
/ @the_flight_records
#aviation #pilot #avgeek
____________________________
IMPORTANT:
The main purpose of this video is educational, i.e. to provide example situations for people who want to become pilots or air traffic controllers and to provide them with information. In addition, the aim here is to provide current pilots and air traffic controllers with access to radio conversations around the world so that they can think about how they should behave in situations they are likely to encounter.
While preparing the content, I follow important aviation events and news worldwide. I check whether I can access the radio conversations by looking at the date and time zone of these events.
Then, I listen to the conversations over and over again to prepare subtitles and note down the relevant parts. Finally, I prepare an animation, get it from tracking websites, and put it all together.
____________________________
► e-mail: theflightrecords@gmail.com
Radio conversations: www.liveatc.net/
Map: www.google.com...
Everyone makes a mistake once in awhile, but man, this is a perfect example of how to make it worse!
The pilot is a dick. ATC is part of the FAA which is the regulator of aviation and airspace and when an employee of the regulator properly points out an omission just thank ATC and follow the rules.
Lol that poor tower controller is like what’s this guys problem
“You seem hostile” 💀💀💀💀
He's having a fit!
He's Soo confused as to what's happening right now 😂😂
Civility costs nothing and correct procedure is there for a good reason.
I’m just not understanding. Neither did the right thing. I’m a CPC and could have been mitigated on both sides. I was previously at a very major Tracon for years and was more like meh.
When a pilot reacts to corrections from ATC like he's a teenager, SMH.
From a pilot, ...arguing with ATC is a no win situation.
Foolish too at best, and selfish really, even compromising safety via clogging up the freq to complain.
If you think you're going to get violated, or know for a fact you committed a violation,
..step 1 is filing a NASA/ASRS report to protect oneself from a possible enforcement action.
For those that don’t understand, ATC gets part of the blame if the pilot doesn’t do a proper read back , not to mention an ass chewing if we are in anyway unprofessional. This pilot needs to learn his job and ATC’s responsibility too. Completely unacceptable
Yeah, the ATC was technically correct but he could have been a lot more diplomatic and respectful. The ATC shouldn't be saying that sounds disrespectful to a pilot while he's in the air and piloting a plane full of passengers. Polite and respectful messages should be all that is coming from the ATC under those circumstances. If harsher messages are required, save it for when the pilot and passengers are on the ground.
love how the other pilot took over 😂
He must have one of those magic microphones that automatically deletes his call sign and his runway assignment. Couldn't be that he is just not taking his job seriously. Of course there is a lot of redundancy in these radio transmissions but that is by design. Seems he just cannot be bothered with that. That is a little scary considering he is a professional pilot.
i would not want to be a passenger on any plane that pilot was flying
screwed up the radio calls and then proceeds to screw up taxi in...well done....
He was probably mad and it screwed his cognition. I got flustered with a guy at a parking lot and ended up scratching my car. Total idiot day for me
He didn’t screw up any taxiing
Yeah not sure who is taxiing. You heard the other pilot taking over comms several times because of the other pilots negligence. Hopefully he let's the other pilot talk to Phoenix TRACON and then talks to corporate about his copilots attitude to get some retraining.
he is so angry he can't believe anyone would challenge his authority. it's like pissing off some kid in cod.. soon they are so angry they are typing so fast its full of mistakes and you can no longer understand what they are saying.
This pilot was on a bad day... made it worse for himself.
I listen to our local regional airport. Our controller often reminds the pilots to include their call signs in the read-back. It’s standard procedure to prevent foul ups.
If only there were specific items you had to read back.
I know, right?? 🤣
The callsign must be used when reading back, read backs are essential. FSDO needs to be called and this pilot reported. I'm a 15K hour ATP, 30 year controller and this pilot is out of line.
And this is a guy that we are to entrust our lives to keep a level head when something goes awry...
Sounds like a grown baby who had his ego busted because he was called out for his bs.
Ego, the single biggest thing holding the human civilization back. It’s true if you ponder it enough.
I was wondering if the pilot was gonna say “American Airlines” with a whiny voice like that other guy from a while back.
I remember that one. Also AA but in Atlanta if I remember correctly
Alright fellow airline pilots with JeppFD pro, follow along, please... Pubs>North America>General Airway Manual>Air Traffic Control>International Civil Aviation Organization -Air Traffic Management>Air Traffic Management (Doc 4444) Chapter 12. Read it. FFS
Suspend the pilot. Put him in room and have him call out the call signs for every A/A flight scheduled for that day and night. Radio protocol is radio protocol and regulations.
Funny.
Safety Issue
You’re basically giving all the flights schedules a safety hazard.
1:50 TAPES, not taste.
Taste seemed appropriate too....take your medicine sir....
This is an excellent example of the McGurk effect! When we read the word "taste" in the captions, it sounds like taste. I went back and re-listened to that part with my eyes closed, and now it sounds like tapes.
well done
Phoenix tower on a first contact:
😮
Pilot needs to be pulled off the line for a couple of weeks of retraining. His attitude absolutely sucks. Kudos to ATC, professional, smooth and taking no BS from this guy
Lol the FO took that like a champ
Wouldn’t want to fly with that pilot, in the front or the back
when i was getting my license, my instructor said if this happens, just take the number and talk. you may think you know what's happening, but sometimes you don't.
After 20 years moving iron birds I learned one basic rule. ADAPT.
Babies gettin mad, relax people.
Back in the 80'a when I started to fly, I was taught to do it right and do it right every single time regardless of conditions, traffic, if I knew the controller or anything else. I use this concept for everything now, flying, SCUBA diving, driving etc. Didn't a wise man once say practice makes perfect? Learn it, live it...
I get that the pilot's reaactions are unreasonable but then I also see he only once missed the reading and rest all the times read back as he should until he lost his mind.
Could there indeed be communication problem?
He made several errors and then got all snarky. All on the pilot.
@jeffro221 thanks for letting me know. Can you please give me an example or two? I just assume that people are good so the mistakes and error and sarcasm is sometimes not very apparent to me.
That being said, if he did make a lot of mistakes, I really admire how stern both the ATCs were, they were not around to bear with his arrogance
@@SubtleAsh-TheImmortal 0:18 and 0:30. Remember that ATC communication occurs on an open frequency, so it's vital for a plane to identify themselves with every communication. Otherwise, you can't be positive who's talking. Then, at 1:12, the pilot must read back all of the information given to make sure they got it right - especially, in that case, as there had been an initial question regarding which runway they were going to land on. Honestly, the mistake at 4:05 isn't that big a deal - that's why readbacks exist.
My personal theory is that the pilot with the accent might've been maybe a tad drunk. However, the other pilot seemed sober and fine and able to take over the procedure. But I will asterisk this all with the fact that it's supposition and I have no actual proof of anything.
@@SubtleAsh-TheImmortal , Every response to ATC must end with the plane's callsign (tail or flight #). This was missed twice. When ATC gives a runway in their instruction, it must ALWAYS be read back as part of the response. Both of these are absolute firm requirements for every pilot flying in controlled airspace.
Just to add to the stupidity...
As I recall (I was an AF navigator a long, long time ago in a land far, far away) the correct ICAO pronunciation is niner, not nine.
Not a lot of that anymore though.
@@theargonauts8490 just wanted to give the controller more ammo. The pilot needs to grow up and what better way than to make him take a seat for a day or two.
My CFI back in the 80's drilled it into my head how to do it right, and to do it right EVERY SINGLE TIME. OCD type consistency for me is mandatory, shortcuts are unacceptable. I could rant here, but won't...
Unimpressed by the pilot on the radio. You made a number of minor mistakes, you were called out on them, correctly, and should just accept. learn and move on. By being a dork, you loose all respect and turn a minor issue into one of your own competence and suitability to fly commercial airliners.
aren't you supposed to repeat back like EVERYTHING you hear for clarity and safety. why doesn't the pilot just do that
i feel bad for the FO, poor guy flying with a teenage boy for a captain
Video and title sure are the same! Heard nothing heated at all?
If the pilot has problems with readback he better not try a job on the railroad! Our readback is insane compared to that quick banter.
What's with that guy? He's mad because he needs to communicate properly? Ambiguity is what creates crashes. When you assume you make and ASS out of U and ME
The pilot is looking for an early retirement.
hmmm I get triggered fast in certain situations but never with authority or a person who has jurisdiction in the airspace you're in....Learn to control that anger and learn from it. It doesn't mean you have to turn Buddhist.
Or you can just do your readbacks and acknowledgements correctly.
I'm not a pilot. I'm not an ATC. Even I know how important it is to include a proper read back AND to ident. Anything lost in translation can lead to BAAAAAAAAAAAD things.
I'm eating Tim Tams, waiting for somebody to blame Australians 🙂
Hang on ! I'm Australian and assume you are too. Why would anyone blame us? 🙃
@@theChickenstones This came up on another channel, where someone thought that the man on the radio was Australian.
The voice is a little nasal, but not Australian.
Can we blame you anyway, just for old time sake?
You stupid Aussie kangaroo rollers have no business flying American planes. There ya go. 😮
@@twentyrothmans7308 Both the captain and FO were on the radio, and one of them was clearly not raised in the US. Sounds British, but he's likely been living in the US for awhile so his accent is a bit Americanized.
This pilot doesn't like being called out on his radio procedure. This isnt the first time I have heard him on this channel
Someone needs a timeout.
Captain Happy can fly all the legs, your copilot will be honored to do all the radio no problem.
It wouldn’t have even been reported. Guy just dug himself a hole and blemish.
Blaming the hardware is not helpful, either. If the pilot did that at JFK or ATL they might just get sent to Kalamazoo for spite. Just what the airline needs is a call from ATC reporting that there is problems with the radio. Bad pilot. No biscuit.
Though the control forgot to mention call signs when it suited him…
The issue is with the read-back from the pilot. The requirements for read-back are absolute, and are not the same as the requirements for ATC instructions being given.
Both of them aren't exactly super professional but more the pilot than the ATC.
What does pilot deviation mean?
It is an unintentional breach of aviation regulations or instructions that may prompt an investigation.
@@the_flight_records Thanks for the clarification on this.
The specific phraseology, "possible pilot deviation", is known as a "Brasher warning". It puts the pilot on notice that they may have violated an instruction or regulation, and that the FAA may begin an investigation. Often it's cleared up with a phone call, especially if the violation was unintentional, safety was not compromised, and the pilot shows the right attitude about trying to improve safety in the future. The controller dressed the pilot down, and was willing to let it go, but then this jackass decided to mock the controller, and managed to talk the controller into giving him a Brasher warning when (probably) none was going to be given.
The controller even gave him a huge hint: "Do you need a phone number to call?" He was saying in code what he couldn't say out loud ---- I ought to give you a Brasher warning, and will if you keep it up. The pilot was off the hook, and then just had to shoot his mouth off one last time. Most likely the approach controller picked up the phone and called tower and made sure the Brasher warning got issued.
@@the_flight_records Replace 'unintentional' with 'possible' in that description, and it's good. It doesn't have to be unintentional.
Passive aggressive at its best.
what happens if they call the phone number?
The pilot will speak directly with an ATC manager to discuss the situation, what didn't work properly and what improvements need to be made on the pilot's behalf. Nothing more than that.. However, if it's an agregious safety violation...then, it would likely be reported directly to the FAA and disciplinary action could be taken against the pilot.
A countdown clock activates and the chip implanted in the pilot's head goes boom.
@@mrjinkoreaIt’s not mandatory to call the number when you are given one. Pilot is not obligated to answer questions.
It’s not that hard to just be a professional and do it right.
Comments remind me of the different performance standards between controllers and aircrew.
Pip squeak should probably have left radio communications to their co-pilot.
That's the Auusie...Captain Dick Wowzer
The controller was correct but he could have softened his tone a bit and been a bit more diplomatic. Doesn't improve air safety to have a pilot in the air with a flight full of passengers who is angry and fuming because he feels he has been disrespected. Also, there seemed to be a little passive-aggressive behavior by both sides later in the conversation in the way they were talking to each other. It certainly deviated from true professionalism on both sides.
When you’re busy and you have to correct an aircraft multiple times, it gets old quickly. One bad read back is understandable. Having to ask for a proper read back several times from a professional flight crew that knows full well what’s required to read back is unacceptable
@@keith7003 What is unacceptable is to forget that there are the lives of hundreds of passengers on that plane depending on professionals such as the pilot and the air controller to get them back onto the ground safely, and that raising a disagreement to an emotional pitch while that plane is in the air works against the #1 priority of getting those hundreds of lives back on the ground safely.
Keep things cool and professional while that plane is in the air. Save the ranting and arguing for AFTER everyone is safely back on the ground.
Pilot was being a dick.. but approach was a little hostile and escalated the situation.. we're in the air boys we've got alot of things going on, the last thing we need is an argument, so everyone please for the sake of passenger safety, relax and discuss whatever issues you have on the ground
Well, the first controller pointed out. He was missing information and told him to correct it. He decided to get pissy. The second controller wasn’t involved in the first conversation so all he got was the pissy.
Being required to voice your full callsign as indicated is A FUCKING FAA REQUIREMENT. It's one of those ones that's written in fucking blood.
Those were all reasonable issues the approacher pointed out. Drifting a bit off phraseology is not a problem most of the time, but when it comes to callsign, runway assignments or the like, there’s no excuse.
It's a pity there was no analysis from the channel on this video; but my instinct is just like you said.
Ok im not a pilot. What just happened?
Joining the question
Edit: Okay I just got it
The pilot failed twice to identify himself when speaking, and also did not repeat the runway numbers hes going to land, and then blamed the radio.
@SumoLife ok
The pilot failed to completely and correctly read back the instructions that ATC was giving him. This is not a minor issue, as clear communications is critical to ensure that traffic flows safely in congested airspace. Failing to acknowledge the correct runway assignment (as this pilot did) could result in a collision on the runway, which could kill people.
If a pilot did this during a checkride, he/she would fail and be sent back for re-training.
Dick pilot was probably put in his place in the cabin as the other pilot took over.
He sounded like an old fart that should have retired.
Someone was having a baaaaaaaad day 😆
What an arse. Fundamental communication protocol!
Isn't it technically still wrong to say "one four seven nine" instead of "one four seven ninER"?
That pilot is a total goofball.
Pilot needs to grow up and get it right
They won’t have jobs after this.
Do not trust your phone.
Yeah but that's who American Airlines hires...
It's as if the PILOT was just being an A-HOLE on ourpsose..
This pilot is an ass and he’s dangerous.
Both were being unprofessional.
The pilot was forgetting his call signs, but the ATC was extremely patronizing when a kind reminder would be sufficient.
Adding toxic add-ons like “are you ok? You seem extremely hostile”
And rubbing it more with “you seem nice and kind” to the other pilot would merit a write up on my part, as this serves nothing but to anger the pilot more at a crucial time when they are landing and need absolute concentration.
Agree. The ATC needs to keep it completely respectful and to avoid raising the emotions of pilots in the air. If harsh words are needed, save it for when the pilot and his passengers are on the ground.
ATC did give him a reminder, professionally. That should have been enough. This is all on the pilot.
When a professional doesn’t know and follow the rules… They are there for a reason, to save lives. When you get called out say you’re sorry and fix it. There is an epidemic of stupid.
Dude they are there to fly the airplane safely and according to regulations…. Firefighters doctors etc save lives , pilots fly planes… jesus the drama around aviation is unf***** real
@@josetaveira7094 Pilots who don’t follow the rules cause the accidents and thus the drama. The ATC and FAA are there to save lives. If you don’t want to learn from other people’s stupid, why are to watching videos of said stupid. All pilots are indoctrinated into the idea of the regs are written in blood from accident victims. Learning from other pilot’s mistakes helps everyone be safer though, as they say “there is non fixing stupid”. Stupid starts with the arrogance thinking you know it all and have nothing to learn.
@@Drew32145 forklift drivers who don't follow rules also kill nd they're not there to save lives. We are there to fly the airplane safely and to act according to the procedures in case there's an emergency. I don't think I know it all, but if I'm right , by the tone of your speech, you do. I don't know about you ,but I fly airplanes since 2016, and yes I learn almost everyday, and yes, I had my fair share of situations deviating from standard , and no, I don't save lives. I fly airplanes and if things go wrong , we are there to solve the problem or at least fly the airplane all the way to the crash site. that's how an aviator is taught to and that's how it's done. Saving lives is just a collateral of doing your job right. So please, quit the attitude. Just to finish, responding to your last paragraph, " when the debate is lost, slandering becomes the tool of the loser
@@josetaveira7094 Are you deliberately trying to prove ATC and the regs are NOT there to save lives? Using your limited experience as a position of knowledge is meaningless in a discussion of pilots doing stupid things. The definition of “stupid” in aviation is not following the regs and AIM. Add in throwing attitude to your controller points to the next level. Then make it a professional pilot you are in it deep. Now if this is the type of pilot you are then I guess it would be personal to you. I’ve seen a lot in the fifty five years flying but arguing against the importance of the responsibility’s of both pilots and controllers is a new one.
@@Drew32145 I had to read twice , then think for 10m and I reached the conclusion of just not respond anymore. Pointless from me to even try to debate something to someone who's not up for a change in his mind. safe flights
How did he deviate when he followed the directives?
Callsign is needed on readback in FAA doc, that’s what he violated numerous times after correction
Incorrect taxi, he turned off at B7 not B6
He read back incorrectly multiple times when asked to correct it he got into an argument instead
You don't read back the callsign then you are in violation of FAA requirements, also incorrect taxi.
@@alphamaccao5224 , he also did not read back the runway assignment. Multiple violations in a span of just a few minutes.
Unprofessional from an AA captain
On this side of the pond he should know better.
I’m sure when he listened to this clip he realized he screwed up.
But it is an American pilot.
Sounds english to me. One that has lived in the US for a while.
pilots and controllers have lost they professionalism, an argument is never won on the radio
such a childish behavior by the pilot
I will 100% guarantee that when the FAA looks at this it will go nowhere. The pilot was out of line but the controller did absolutely NOTHING to help, and everything to make it worse.
Totally wrong.
Air rage
Yes, the pilot was a dick, but why did they violate him?
Failure to follow FAA requirements (not saying callsign on multiple occasions), getting aggressive with ATC who was trying to enforce FAA requirements as is their job, imporper taxi.
Everyone's forgetting the more important readback: runway clearance. That one's imperative so the controller confirms you know what runway you're supposed to be landing on, especially with parallels. The callsign is sorta forgivable if you only do it once or twice and you're not a jerk... But that, coupled with the attitude and not reading back your runway clearance is instant "got a number for you to call" since you've gone from too concise to belligerent and compromising safety.
It's just a possible deviation
@@soccerguy2433 , it was a pretty clear deviation.
I’m still amazed that aircraft are using audio over VHF for such critical instructions. Why haven’t we made a reliable data communication system instead?
We have - the radio is in tandem with transponders, GPS and flight logging.
The radio serves as mechanism for validating what is already going to happen, or to announce new and critical information.
Among other things, radio is infinitely more reliable, and with predictable behavior under various circumstances and operating conditions.
You don't replace those types of systems. There's a reason why it's required for pilots to learn Morse code, despite the fact that it is no longer the primary means of communication.
VHF radio is too reliable and predictable to just completely ditch. Especially when flying, where VHF can reach other receivers with ease compared to on the ground.
We do. Look up CPDLC
@@AudioArcturiapilots don't have to learn Morse code 😂
@@AudioArcturia I've got 40 years as a professional pilot, and I don't know the Morse Code. There is no need to memorize it. Maybe you're confusing pilots with Ham Radio operators.
@@OneTequilaTwoTequila Although there's a subset of Ham Radio operators that still use it, proficiency in Morse Code is no longer a requirement to obtain a Ham license. The FCC phased it out about thirty years ago.
This pilot has no business in the air. Very unprofessional
Sounds like the Captain took over the radio at the end. Probably told the F/O to chill out.
I’d wager it was the other way around; typically FO is radios on the ground and that voice was similar to the other voice that took a few calls when the first guy got flustered.
As an FO I'd never talk back to controller like that The captain is the pilot in command and talking back like that would jeopardize his command and career. Not to mention he/she would definitely chastise the go for doing that
I understand that the pilot was out of line with his attitude towards the Approach controller, but he ended up reading back everything correctly and landed on the proper runway. With that being said, why was it a “Possible Pilot Deviation,” when the pilot never *deviated* from instructions?
Outward frustration and attitude is not appropriate when so many lives are at stake.
The readback of the taxi instructions was wrong, and they turned onto B, instead of B6 to C6 to C like they were told. Without the prior stuff, this might have been overlooked. But a pattern of miscommunication needs to be addressed before it gets people killed.
It's a deviation from regulatory requirements, not from instructions. The regs require specific details in read backs of radio calls. The pilot omitted or improperly abbreviated the runway and callsign, even after the controller asked him to be scrupulous. Then, when asked again, he took up air time to argue about it.
@@philmiller2465 Oh ok. Thanks for the clarification.
😊
When you get paid way too much money and easily experience “boo-boo hurt feelings”, with a side of lack of professionalism and proper radio etiquette.
He’s Australian. He can’t help himself
Didn’t sound Australian to me. Sounded like a mix of American with a slight British accent.
It sounds to me like the controller had a supervisor evaluating him and had to catch the pilot’s errors by the book, then the supervisor comes on and tells the pilot to get it together because he’s basically wasting their time.
@@FT-64 I don’t think you understood what I said.
Pilot can be a jerk. Maybe having a bad day. That happens to all of us. But ATC did do nothing to de escalate the situation. Or worse. They threw a little more oil in the fire by calling another flight who wasn’t involved in this at all nice. (Or was he trying to be extra nice to a female pilot?) Both are in the wrong here.
Three key words......air traffic CONTROL!
Seems to me there is inconsistency in expectations around R/T etiquette in the US. For the most part, listening/watching clips of comms it seems totally slap dash. Then you fly to Phoenix on a Tuesday in the afternoon in May, and as a pilot you’re expected to be “by the ICAO book” all of a sudden. Pick a lane guys! Love from the UK
US radio comms are slapdash and cowboyish compared to Europe but the really big no-no was failing to readback the full landing clearance including runway assignment.
Mishearing that and landing on the wrong parallel can kill a whole lotta people, so it's one of the instances where there's really no leeway.
What is the BS. You gonna keep them orbiting forever? YEAH. Lets see how that ends.
To the maker of the video,….. why is it always a 787 or 777 on the click bait video graphics….. Clearly it’s not!!!!!! In United States, large aircraft, the pilot states company name, flight number followed by the “word”, (HEAVY)!!!! Narrow body aircraft is just, company name and flight number…..
Awesome when 1st officer took over coms…Pilot was like *shit* I am not talking to this guy anymore. 😂😂
PHX Tower: You Ok? You seem very hostile.
Kinda expect he would call fighter jets and a boat load of SAMs to engage the American 1479
Stikler ATC. Just trying to stir up trouble.
Air traffic control just harassing the pilot. Ridiculous repetitive talk, I’ve never heard such unneeded talk over the radio. I would be furious.
No, this was serious. Failing to read back the runway assignment is a major safety violation. If you get that wrong, people die.
ATC is making situation worse. He puts unnecessary stress on the pilot, as communication seems perfectly clear. Rules are rules, ok, but ATC really wants to argue
unnecessary pissing match between ATC and pilot. The fact that approach issued a possible pilot deviation after he had moved on and was being very clear and concise with his radio calls shows that the approach controller definitely needs some corrective training as well.
Maybe it was an SOP issue with the approach facility. If so, I’d think the controller’s hands would be tied.
Ah did you guys miss the fact that they were on the wrong taxi way? That is what the phone number was for, not what happened in the air.
No, he wasn’t very clear and concise afterwards. He was being intentionally slow to make a point. He can make that point with the FAA.
If he’s right, then they’ll clear him
@@arizonaexplorations4013
But the number he was given was for aproach and not ground.
How do you know that he called the communications wrong if you didn't know it was him because he failed to give his tail number. The ATC has a pole up his you know what.
No, he made multiple mistakes. He failed to give callsign twice, failed to read back his runway assignment, and then took the wrong taxiway. That's a whole lot of violations in a very short period of time.
@@FT-64 "violations" that caused no danger other than an controller to lose his cool. Pilots have more things to worry about than controllers having a power trip which CAN cause the pilot to make mistakes and put lives in danger. As a pilot I was trained that communication is the primary reason for radios NOT correct procedure. If a controller can't figure out situational awareness in a quiet airspace because they are to stupid or looking to flex control, then they need to find a new career.
Aside note: Air Traffic Controllers are NOT traffic cops looking to give someone a ticket but are to ASSIST pilots in making flying safer.
@ , I'm also a pilot. Not reading back the runway assignment is significant, as is taking the wrong taxiway, particularly at a major commercial airport. This was not a bugsmasher at a Class D. I get your point on the callsigns, but there was more wrong here than just loose procedures.
Could he have just abbreviated the callsign on callback? Simply saying 1479 should have been sufficient for identification.
No they can't abbreviate call signs for good reason. It's possible to duplicate portions of them which could be dangerous for obvious reasons. Aircraft operators both airline and general aviation often operate with a "letter of agreement" or LOA with the FAA that permit fleets to establish callsigns that are shorter than their aircraft registration numbers so they don't have to state a lengthy identifier repeatedly, but pilots must still say the entire agreed upon identifier on the radio. For example, i am a helicopter pilot, and when i was in training, instead of saying "November 971 Sierra Hotel," we had short identifiers. I would say "silverstate 19." But i did have to state the whole thing.
@@kensingtonchapp4819 and there also could be two flight 1479s in the same area.
Technically yes, as long as there was not another 1479 or similar callsign. But he didn't even do that.
It doesn’t take that much effort to just be a professional and do it right.
No there can be 2 aircraft with same call sign just different companies. I’ve had it happen a few times and controllers get mixed up too.