I am a retired TRACON controller, and the first controller is reminiscent of how a lazy controller sounds. This pilot has someone trying to gain access to the flight deck and this controller is making him repeat everything in a high workload situation. We had a lot of lazy controllers who spent more time ducking work and calculating their maximum retirement date than working airplanes. There is nothing wrong with the pilot's accent or transmissions, it's all on this worthless controller.
This was difficult to listen to, with all the calls from the controller to repeat what was said by the pilot. I had no difficulty understanding the pilots myself.
Controller = horrible. Pilot had to spell everything out for him. I can understand the pilot just fine, he defined everything clearly in a organized fashion.
@@skytrotter6144 or because radio connection was bad and controller wasn't hearing him well. we get recording from live atc, controller might be hearing it differently
@@Belchmaster41 You can be an ICAO member (the US are one of the funders) and not apply ICAO phraseology I have Language proficiency on my FAA atpl and level 6 on my EASA atpl and the phraseology, I can by experience tell you that there is a small booklet on the differences that shows they do not practice the same ICAO phraseology in a general manner ! 😉
@@skytrotter6144 what I will never understand is that even though the US is an ICAO member state and hosted the Chicago convention, it deviates markedly from ICAO standard procedure and best practices. Perhaps the Americans are annoyed that there hasn’t been an American ICAO president since 1947 and there has never been an American Secretary General?
I was on this flight. Back in economy we of course had no idea what was happening. Hearing this makes me so grateful for the cockpit and cabin crew we had. This situation could've been so much worse than the inconvenience it became thanks to their extraordinary ability to maintain focus and control of the aircraft.
I've worked air ops for a decade now. I can't get over how many times the aircrew had to repeat themselves (first souls and fuel, then approach info). This video was NOT a great example of how ATC assists crews in emergent situations. This is especially true of ATC in the NY TRACON. I guess they've grown pre-2001 complacent again.
@@CanalDuModem Obviously not. It the CONSTANT repetition that makes it clear that either the ATC has a hearing problem, or there is too much noise in the tower for them to do their jobs correctly, or he needs more training, or SOMETHING that should have been picked up on by management prior to this emergency.
International pilots: Is PAN-PAN-PAN used more in ICAO "culture?" My sense is that it is very rarely used in the US, where virtually every commercial aircraft in need either declares an "Emergency" or "MAYDAY" or "Priority." It's taught to FAA controllers, but then, rarely used. I don't have a good sense of how closely ICAO procedures synch with FAA procedures (specifically 7110.65).
Can-Can is also the originally French dance you'd see in a cabaret like the Moulin Rouge. Since the pilot is Swiss French my mind took to that meaning. ^^'
Rest assured. That person will [if non american] have their (last ever) flight back in cuffs next to an air marshall, or will have to sail across the oceans from now on. Thats an automatic No-Fly-List signup
@@ThePatriot-gm1fg if the perpetrator is american it WAS its LAST flight on a plane, if not that person will be escorted back to its country of origin, after or during prison time.
The airflow from taxiing also cools the brakes so it makes sense. Waiting on the taxiway to potentially let them flame up is not the smart move, when you got a passenger who needs to get off 😅
Moving freely in the cabin. Yes, there is something disturbing about him. Almost like he hold the passengers and the flight hostage in a passive way. Nobody seems to have the guts to restrain him. Which I can understand. You'll never know what he can do.
The controllers were the worst I’ve heard. The cockpit is managing a very tense situation. The controllers had an unurgent tone…because of an accent of pilot? We could understand clearly. Do they not focus and prioritize??
This is the northeast region we're talking about here. Perhaps the busiest airspace in the world. They got a ton of planes up in the air that they need to keep an eye on. They can't lose focus on the other planes. This controller likely had a lot of planes under his watch at the moment.
As someone quite familiar with the field, I disagree. This is busy airspace. You're only hearing communications with one aircraft. "Unruly passengers" calls from aircraft are not uncommon, and cockpit doors are very secure. PAN-PAN-PAN may be by-the-book but probably doesn't reflect the actual threat. (if it was a serious threat, the passenger would have been restrained by attendents&passengers). It simply sounds like an out of control drunk and the pilot didn't want to deal with it for the next 7 hours . Still the initial Boston Center(?) controller was either having a bad day or simply unprofessional. Any time you have an emergency aircraft, you know your actions are going to be scrutinized, and you try to clear up your act, use perfect phraseology, etc. That's partially why you hear so much duplication of questions by ATC on many of these emergency videos. Controllers are simply verifying what they've already heard on the landline from the prior controller. For what it's worth, the rest of the controllers seemed fine. The Swiss Air pilot's english was perfect, and he understood everything except for unfamiliar fixes with made-up pronunciation. (but I could understand one controller briefly tripping over a britishism the pilot used). Controllers generally speak fast in busier areas and BOS/NYC controllers just ramp it up another notch. I just accidently found video soon after it was posted and don't understand the (as of this posting) unanimous criticism of the controllers involved.
@@Blast6926 Exactly. I'm not saying *everything* was perfect (looking towards ZBW) but I see nothing particularly wrong with ATC here for an "unruly passenger" call.
The worst part is that the passenger was released on a promise to appear. Everyone had to be rebooked, a crew member was injured, and this guy slept in his own bed that night.
@@jaysmith1408 Yessir... per the article on Business Insider... "the individual was charged with interference with transportation and assault and was released with a court desk appearance". Crime is becoming legal in this country unless you literally kill someone. It's horrifying really that anyone can do almost anything and get away with it. The Purge, in slow motion.
I don't know exactly how much an American pound is. So what. I write down the number the pilot gives me and the unit, and do the math later or let someone else do it.
Everyone has a phone. He could Google changing kilos to pounds. Btw, the pilot should have given the amount of TIME was left in the fuel tanks… and the ATC should have asked for THAT information.
Some people have difficulty to understand their native language when spoken with an accent they are not familiar with. That being said, unless the ATC is a newbie in the job, he should be familiar with the sometimes struggling to speak English foreign pilots. This is common for people who are not exposed much to the rest of the world.
@@oldRighty1 Controller: "You are not declaring an emergency or anything like that?" Pilot: Controller: "You are not declaring an emergency or anything like that?" Pilot:
I feel like the first controller's only defender. Wasn't there, but at that time of day, he might be monitoring other frequencies, on a landline with another facility, or whatever. If video is synched somewhat correctly with audio, he was already coordinating an unusual return to Newark, overloaded with fuel, hot brakes, etc, etc. I'd rather a chill sloppy phraseology controller, than an excited one.
@@Dvy383 Well said - I thought it sounded a little sloppy but I'll take that over agitation and fast talking. We've the classic situation of armchair flight sim fanatics who wouldn't do so well given a little adrenaline, and communication without subtitles.
A: You're not hearing everything. B: Typically at this time of day, the NYC airports are launching dozens of eastbound international flights to Europe.
quick observation here : - 2024 and we are still dealing with pounds and kilos and tones. crew is dealing with a passenger trying to get into cockpit and pilots have to think of a way to make the approach guy understand the quantity of their fuel. the fuel quantity saga will continue till all countries use the same measure just like when they all chose to speak in English - Swiss just launched the Newark flight so pilots are not familiar with waypoint names and the approach area in general so maybe somebody needs to take that into account - The controller is focused on everything except the plane in question. pilots shouldn't be forced to repeat everything. the cabin crew are also trying to communicate with them at the same time. this is just an extra burden. I watch these videos frequently. some controllers are exceptionally good and some are just disastrous.
"The controller is focused on everything except the plane in question", as they haven't declared an emergency, they are just another plane in the sky for that controller, and you can't expect any special treatment or attention. The pilots should have declared an emergency, they had a very valid reason to do so.
@@dvukovic oh your reply sounds familiar. Avianca 052 sounds familiar to you? lets say pilots forgot to use the word Emergency. Is that a good enough reason for the controller to not be focused on his job and ask them to repeat everything several times? You have somebody trying to open cockpit's door immediately after takeoff. Wouldn't your, yourself, be startled? Is that a good reason to believe that to him "they are just another plane in the sky"? As long as people start ransacking the law and protocols to hide their shortage, laziness and lack of concentration, this industry is simply lucky to be the safest mean of transportation.
@@ehsan83 Nobody 'forgets' to say the E word. Nobody wants to say it because of the consequences that follow uttering it. Perceived or otherwise, there are consequences. And there should NEVER be consequences.
OMG those poor pilots. What was wrong with the headsets of the first three ATCs that they had to have everything repeated many times. The first one seemed like maybe he needed to be tested for a new auditory processing problem.
@@LeTangKichiro - I am willing to look for systems problems first, but it does seems like there is some sort of processing issue, or maybe just a capacity problem. I wonder what training the ATCs get to be able to process so fast, and to speak giving detailed information quickly and without error. I’m a “no, I mean the other right!” car navigator, so the abilities of the really great ATCs we see do leave me in awe.
Controller's thoughts: *I wonder what I should have for lunch.* SWISS: "PAN PAN. PAN PAN. PAN PAN." Controller's thoughts: *Hmm. Yeah. Pan-fried eggs sounds great* Controller: "Did you say something?"
It’s not that bad, in the scheme of things. Probably the worst in the developed world. Full of non-standard RT. Just a reflection of how on the brink the US system is.
jeebus.. I feel bad for SWR19C, they had to repeat info many times and apparently their preferred runway was not relayed. this was frustrating to listen to.
Japan is the absolute worst, barely understandable English. France at least uses standard phraseology. Russia and China needs special caution with height in meters not feet but controllers are experienced and competent (usually).
With all respect, your generalization of the "US airspace" makes me wonder if you're referring to AI controllers from flight sims? And I'm curious where in "most of the world" you've found ATCOs to be more professional.
I am a FO for China Airlines, and I hate flying to SFO or NY. Those controllers seem to not like their job and always mumbling. I fly to other asian and europen countries and all of them speak very clear English. English is my second language and sometimes its hard to understand when US controllers use slang.
Good video, thanks! It's cool how they all worked together so professionally. And yes per the other person's comment, I agree that there shouldn't have been the need to ask the pilot to repeat himself so many times.
I think the first controller was having his nails done. Not a single fk given, made the busy pilot repeat everything he said twice, despite being clear in pronounciation. Pull that first controller off for retraining.
Cockpit under attack, mk cool… fuel and souls? Fuel and souls? Hello fuel and souls? Ok we know you’re under attack but we’re going to make you switch frequencies for our convenience
It doesn't affect to the actual work on cockpit in any way, if someone is messing in the cabin. Crew didn't declare emergency (and even if it did, it would still need to change frequencies).
@@trr4488 I listen to ATC often. And nothing was said here that should’ve tripped up these controllers. They sounded unprofessional. That’s just my opinion.
Nice to see USA ATC being equal opportunity employer and having deaf ATCs, they might benefit from some courses in English being native speakers and all. It's such a handicap for them😂
Air Canada pilots who are quebecois would have more of an accent than the slight intonation variance that these Swiss air pilots have. Something definitely wrong with the controller's headset or hearing. How would he understand british English I wonder.
"in other news an international incident occurred today when a UA-cam comment left by @@gtm624 effectively prohibited all non-domestic air travel within the united states. witnesses report this is due to a disagreement over fundamental units of measurement widely accepted in the civilised world being roundly rejected in favour of patriotism on behalf of the American citizen. the white house has refused to comment."
Good job in stressful circumstances. I liked the thoroughness to ensure good information despite hearing issues. I wonder if the other passengers tried to restrain the out of control guy....
Your video asks if we have an interesting situation that should be published and boy do I...My cat (Mr Tiddlesworth) spent all of last Sunday morning looking at me in the most peculiar manner...Well I never thought much about it until he started to make the "hairball" noise (you know the..aack..aack...AACK sound followed by a hairball the size of a cigar lol) BUT this time no hairball...IT WAS A BUTTERFLY! LOL he had caught it and it got stuck....and the damn thing FLEW AWAY! LOL oh my goodness, Mildred and I laughed and laughed and thought this is something you have to share with the world..God Bless Tilly Landscome St Paul Minnesota.
I’m just a casual listener but I find all these very interesting. Was reading the comments and it seemed ATC was behind the 8 ball. For a second there when the pilot asked what gate they were going to, I half expected the tower to say, “Pick one.”🤷♂️🤷♂️😁😁
The ATC was actually making me angry. "Do you need to burn fuel?" " NO SWISS 19C" Sorry repeat that?" "NO SWISS 19C" "OKAY" Every single comm was like this...
Why always the question in the US: "How many souls on board?" Are they gonna count them all before the police will arrest the unruly passenger once on the ground? There must be some passenger list in case of an emergency I assume. And a I assume a US controller should know that almost all airlines in the world except US based airlines use kilograms instead of pounds.
Souls on board is to check in case of dire emergencies and example is so the know nobody is lying under the fire suppressant foam and getting killed by being run over
On the thumbnail I saw the Swiss Air jet and the request to return and have LEO ready and I said what? Then I saw the flight departed from EWR and it made more sense.
I didn't know so I looked this up... PAN-PAN - Used to indicate an urgent situation that doesn't pose an immediate danger to life or the vessel. For example, a pleasure craft that's broken down, out of gas, or lost in fog. MAYDAY - Used to indicate a distress condition, such as an imminent danger to life or a vessel. Distress communications take absolute priority over all other communications, and the word "Mayday" commands radio silence on the frequency in use. So I guess that's why the ATC kept asking whether they wanted to declare an emergency.
Choosing 22R, which is shorter than 22L, when asking for the fire brigade due hot brakes seems strange to me. 22R is a massively inset threshold; maybe they didn't check the landing distance?
The first two controllers were hopeless. The pilot was very clear and specific in his transmissions and the controllers did not seem to be focused on the job at hand.
Interesting how much the stress the language barrier was having during some transmissions. Anyone have any ideas on what happened with the approach controller? Different approach controller around 6:30. Seemed like the existing controller was struggling. I love watching these videos, but do not always truly understand what is happening because I am not trained in this area.
Depending on the aircraft location in the sky, there are published frequencies for that area. The initial controller may have initially some problem understanding, but the repeating got very silly. Standard phraseology was not always used by ATC here either. There are also approach and ground frequencies, and an extra one that they were required to check for latest weather or anything that will affect the safety of the aircraft. This is normal practice at larger airports worldwide. Hope this helps.
Oh, I don't know. I happen to think asking for fuel and souls of board is time wasted in an emergency. Souls on board will only be needed in a recovery operation. Can't that be gotten from dispatch? Also, since ATC can't give you more gas than you have what's the point of again, wasting time in an emergency. If the pilots are in a low fuel state, they will make that abundantly clear to ATC. Same if they have to dump fuel or hold to get to landing weight.
That Brezy thing was just the controller trying to be a smartass, the pilot's reaction was awesome, could you spell it that again? Then still just saying it as a word instead of spelling 😂😂😂 What a waste of time and energy though
It is so disrespectful to pilots not to be LISTENING properly. Pilots know they cannot stuff up, as soon as they hear a lazy, incompetent ATC, they know it's all up to them now. Luckily pilots receive a lot more training and are fully aware of their responsibility.
The danger/ irritation to swiss 19C heavy was not the unruly pax onboard but the controller with some sort of hearing or processing disorder - repeat, repeat, repeat.
It is ridiculous how many times they had to go back and forth on the fuel confirmation with regards to the numerical value as well as the unit of measure. That is crucial time wasted if it was a different more urgent situation. Why is there not a standard unit of measure for fuel for ATC? Half the time they request the amount in weight, half the time they request the amount in hours/time.
That one ATC had the mental acuity of a sloth. I cannot ever understand why they ask for souls on board every damn time when it is literally given in each flight plan.
!["CANCEL TAKEOFF CLEARANCE!"; Kennedy Controllers Prevent Collision on Runway [ATC audio]](/img/n.gif)
I am a retired TRACON controller, and the first controller is reminiscent of how a lazy controller sounds. This pilot has someone trying to gain access to the flight deck and this controller is making him repeat everything in a high workload situation. We had a lot of lazy controllers who spent more time ducking work and calculating their maximum retirement date than working airplanes. There is nothing wrong with the pilot's accent or transmissions, it's all on this worthless controller.
I couldn’t agree more. And you have to think twice about air travel in this environment.
Even with the accent the pilot was very understandable!
I wouldn't say that the first controller was worthless, rather that he may require further training :)
@@tillycatcat Or partly the convo was not a he. Pronouns do not matter; communication does.
This was difficult to listen to, with all the calls from the controller to repeat what was said by the pilot. I had no difficulty understanding the pilots myself.
The pilot, even in a high stress situation, communicated more clearly and calmly than the controllers.
judging from the accent, the pilot was french speaking. Probably from Lausanne or Geneva aerea.
Swiss ?
🇨🇭
That controller should be required to go for a hearing exam.
For a WHAT??????
@@oldandintheway9805 I SAID YOU NEED TO GO FOR A HEARING TEST
@@zackmagee7077 Can somebody turn down that pilot? He keeps repeating himself!! Can't hear a thing!
@@zackmagee7077WHAT?? RYAN SEACREST? WHAT *ABOUT* RYAN SEACREST!?
@@oldandintheway9805 🤣
Controller = horrible. Pilot had to spell everything out for him. I can understand the pilot just fine, he defined everything clearly in a organized fashion.
It is because in the US they are not into standard ICAO phraseology ! 😂😂😂
@@skytrotter6144 or because radio connection was bad and controller wasn't hearing him well. we get recording from live atc, controller might be hearing it differently
@@skytrotter6144 it's standard ICAO because this incident is a "level 4"
@@Belchmaster41 You can be an ICAO member (the US are one of the funders) and not apply ICAO phraseology I have Language proficiency on my FAA atpl and level 6 on my EASA atpl and the phraseology, I can by experience tell you that there is a small booklet on the differences that shows they do not practice the same ICAO phraseology in a general manner ! 😉
@@skytrotter6144 what I will never understand is that even though the US is an ICAO member state and hosted the Chicago convention, it deviates markedly from ICAO standard procedure and best practices.
Perhaps the Americans are annoyed that there hasn’t been an American ICAO president since 1947 and there has never been an American Secretary General?
I was on this flight. Back in economy we of course had no idea what was happening. Hearing this makes me so grateful for the cockpit and cabin crew we had. This situation could've been so much worse than the inconvenience it became thanks to their extraordinary ability to maintain focus and control of the aircraft.
How is this comment not top??? You were actually on the plane! I'm glad thr threat wasn't back there, but it must have been terrifying in retrospect!
wait... so this's in the biz or first class?
@@PrograErrornooooo. Swiss always installs the Cockpit door at the rear of the plane where the Economy is located, so know?
@@PrograErrorAre you the controller?
@@PrograErrorAre you the controller?
I've worked air ops for a decade now. I can't get over how many times the aircrew had to repeat themselves (first souls and fuel, then approach info). This video was NOT a great example of how ATC assists crews in emergent situations. This is especially true of ATC in the NY TRACON. I guess they've grown pre-2001 complacent again.
Exactly. Well said.
DEI hires?
So, what went wrong when ATC asked the pilot to repeat the information? Should he have guessed what the pilot said?
@@alexandern4403 Someone always has to make this ridiculous comment.
@@CanalDuModem Obviously not. It the CONSTANT repetition that makes it clear that either the ATC has a hearing problem, or there is too much noise in the tower for them to do their jobs correctly, or he needs more training, or SOMETHING that should have been picked up on by management prior to this emergency.
PAN-PAN-PAN-PAN. Are you declaring PAN-PAN-PAN? No, CAN CAN. We forgot to go to the supermarket.
People from the suburban NY area appreciate your comment. 😆
International pilots: Is PAN-PAN-PAN used more in ICAO "culture?" My sense is that it is very rarely used in the US, where virtually every commercial aircraft in need either declares an "Emergency" or "MAYDAY" or "Priority." It's taught to FAA controllers, but then, rarely used. I don't have a good sense of how closely ICAO procedures synch with FAA procedures (specifically 7110.65).
@@Dvy383 No I’m referring to the can-can comment, which is an annual sales event at a specific grocery store in the area.
@@Dvy383 My understanding is the US is/has converted to the ICAO terminology around emergencies.
Can-Can is also the originally French dance you'd see in a cabaret like the Moulin Rouge. Since the pilot is Swiss French my mind took to that meaning. ^^'
Loads of wasted time (and extra stress for the pilots) by the controllers asking for repeated info.
You realize that controllers don’t just talk to pilots, right?
I've noticed that a lot on other videos.
Passengers that do this should be banned from flying for life
Rest assured. That person will [if non american] have their (last ever) flight back in cuffs next to an air marshall, or will have to sail across the oceans from now on. Thats an automatic No-Fly-List signup
@@placiaffect8679 What difference does their nationality make? If they're American, they're subject to the same punishment!
@@ThePatriot-gm1fg if the perpetrator is american it WAS its LAST flight on a plane, if not that person will be escorted back to its country of origin, after or during prison time.
@@ThePatriot-gm1fg well the plane landed in the US so no more need to fly for the passenger
@straxwb Yes assuming he lives there.
Suspend the controller and ensure he is retrained starting from Day 1 basic - disgraceful.
This controller is a disaster.
Michael you just made comment of the year .!! Agreed .
This foul ball should be working at a Starbucks so he sound disgusted like the other employees who act like your bothering them .!!
That passenger must have been really something, since the pilot wanted to keep moving to the gate, despite hot brakes.
The airflow from taxiing also cools the brakes so it makes sense.
Waiting on the taxiway to potentially let them flame up is not the smart move, when you got a passenger who needs to get off 😅
@@PlaneSpottingBerlin Thank you for this insight. New to watching these. I assume they also have monitors on how hot the brakes are.
@@pgbrandoncorrect, planes have many sensors for all vital parts ;)
Moving freely in the cabin. Yes, there is something disturbing about him. Almost like he hold the passengers and the flight hostage in a passive way. Nobody seems to have the guts to restrain him. Which I can understand. You'll never know what he can do.
@@johanjacobs9240 It's worth a try, especially if you're going to have to spend another day in Newark.
The controllers were the worst I’ve heard. The cockpit is managing a very tense situation. The controllers had an unurgent tone…because of an accent of pilot? We could understand clearly. Do they not focus and prioritize??
Gау
This is the northeast region we're talking about here. Perhaps the busiest airspace in the world.
They got a ton of planes up in the air that they need to keep an eye on. They can't lose focus on the other planes. This controller likely had a lot of planes under his watch at the moment.
@@jh.4770 + this wasn't an engine failure or Mayday
As someone quite familiar with the field, I disagree. This is busy airspace. You're only hearing communications with one aircraft. "Unruly passengers" calls from aircraft are not uncommon, and cockpit doors are very secure. PAN-PAN-PAN may be by-the-book but probably doesn't reflect the actual threat. (if it was a serious threat, the passenger would have been restrained by attendents&passengers). It simply sounds like an out of control drunk and the pilot didn't want to deal with it for the next 7 hours . Still the initial Boston Center(?) controller was either having a bad day or simply unprofessional. Any time you have an emergency aircraft, you know your actions are going to be scrutinized, and you try to clear up your act, use perfect phraseology, etc. That's partially why you hear so much duplication of questions by ATC on many of these emergency videos. Controllers are simply verifying what they've already heard on the landline from the prior controller. For what it's worth, the rest of the controllers seemed fine. The Swiss Air pilot's english was perfect, and he understood everything except for unfamiliar fixes with made-up pronunciation. (but I could understand one controller briefly tripping over a britishism the pilot used). Controllers generally speak fast in busier areas and BOS/NYC controllers just ramp it up another notch. I just accidently found video soon after it was posted and don't understand the (as of this posting) unanimous criticism of the controllers involved.
@@Blast6926 Exactly. I'm not saying *everything* was perfect (looking towards ZBW) but I see nothing particularly wrong with ATC here for an "unruly passenger" call.
The worst part is that the passenger was released on a promise to appear. Everyone had to be rebooked, a crew member was injured, and this guy slept in his own bed that night.
Wow that is insane!
@@zaram131 probably jail's full...
NY, like many other US states, no longer believes in upholding the law. Country's falling apart.
The feds release on ‘Promise to Appear’? I thought it was direct to the clink, pending sentencing to a worse clink.
@@jaysmith1408 Yessir... per the article on Business Insider... "the individual was charged with interference with transportation and assault and was released with a court desk appearance". Crime is becoming legal in this country unless you literally kill someone. It's horrifying really that anyone can do almost anything and get away with it. The Purge, in slow motion.
I can understand the ATC is not used to kilos, but that guy sounded like he had no idea what they were talking about.
Even drug dealers know what a kilo is.
Makes me think of the "wtf is a kilometer" meme
I don't know exactly how much an American pound is. So what. I write down the number the pilot gives me and the unit, and do the math later or let someone else do it.
@@katho8472 2.2 lbs to 1 kg
Everyone has a phone. He could Google changing kilos to pounds. Btw, the pilot should have given the amount of TIME was left in the fuel tanks… and the ATC should have asked for THAT information.
Unless the audio was bad the first ATC guy seemed dense to me (there was no language barrier here, the pilot was intelligible).
@@northmaineguy5896you're saying the controller was struggling with understanding the Swiss pilot because they're "DEI"? What does that mean?
Some people have difficulty to understand their native language when spoken with an accent they are not familiar with. That being said, unless the ATC is a newbie in the job, he should be familiar with the sometimes struggling to speak English foreign pilots. This is common for people who are not exposed much to the rest of the world.
@@northmaineguy5896And what if he's an old white guy? DEI is getting lame as a bogeyman for everything. Did DEI cause the earthquake in Taiwan?
@@xyonofcalhoun
Google it and don't be like the "DEI".
Dale Earnhardt Incorporated?
Pilot: "PAN PAN PAN PAN". ATC: "Are you declaring PAN PAN?" Is there something in the water in the US?
Pilot: "PAN PAN PAN PAN PAN PAN PAN PAN PAN PAN PAN PAN PAN PAN PAN PAN PAN PAN PAN PAN" Is that any better?
Controller: "What?"
@@oldRighty1
Controller: "You are not declaring an emergency or anything like that?"
Pilot:
Controller: "You are not declaring an emergency or anything like that?"
Pilot:
I feel like the first controller's only defender. Wasn't there, but at that time of day, he might be monitoring other frequencies, on a landline with another facility, or whatever. If video is synched somewhat correctly with audio, he was already coordinating an unusual return to Newark, overloaded with fuel, hot brakes, etc, etc. I'd rather a chill sloppy phraseology controller, than an excited one.
@@Dvy383 Well said - I thought it sounded a little sloppy but I'll take that over agitation and fast talking. We've the classic situation of armchair flight sim fanatics who wouldn't do so well given a little adrenaline, and communication without subtitles.
well in flint Michigan there is
This is a major airport in the USA, why didn’t it sound like it?
A: You're not hearing everything. B: Typically at this time of day, the NYC airports are launching dozens of eastbound international flights to Europe.
First controller was not in an airport.The last one was.Of course it doesn't matter,the first one was terrible.
quick observation here :
- 2024 and we are still dealing with pounds and kilos and tones. crew is dealing with a passenger trying to get into cockpit and pilots have to think of a way to make the approach guy understand the quantity of their fuel. the fuel quantity saga will continue till all countries use the same measure just like when they all chose to speak in English
- Swiss just launched the Newark flight so pilots are not familiar with waypoint names and the approach area in general so maybe somebody needs to take that into account
- The controller is focused on everything except the plane in question. pilots shouldn't be forced to repeat everything. the cabin crew are also trying to communicate with them at the same time. this is just an extra burden. I watch these videos frequently. some controllers are exceptionally good and some are just disastrous.
"The controller is focused on everything except the plane in question", as they haven't declared an emergency, they are just another plane in the sky for that controller, and you can't expect any special treatment or attention. The pilots should have declared an emergency, they had a very valid reason to do so.
@@dvukovic oh your reply sounds familiar. Avianca 052 sounds familiar to you? lets say pilots forgot to use the word Emergency. Is that a good enough reason for the controller to not be focused on his job and ask them to repeat everything several times? You have somebody trying to open cockpit's door immediately after takeoff. Wouldn't your, yourself, be startled? Is that a good reason to believe that to him "they are just another plane in the sky"?
As long as people start ransacking the law and protocols to hide their shortage, laziness and lack of concentration, this industry is simply lucky to be the safest mean of transportation.
The whole world already uses kilograms/metres. It is just America who still use the old system.
@@dvukovic Fair. But why didn't they utter the dreaded E word? What kept them from doing that?
@@ehsan83 Nobody 'forgets' to say the E word. Nobody wants to say it because of the consequences that follow uttering it. Perceived or otherwise, there are consequences. And there should NEVER be consequences.
Pilot to first controller "when you are ready, I have a number for you to copy!!"
OMG those poor pilots. What was wrong with the headsets of the first three ATCs that they had to have everything repeated many times. The first one seemed like maybe he needed to be tested for a new auditory processing problem.
The problem was what should have been located between the headset, not the headset.
@@LeTangKichiro - I am willing to look for systems problems first, but it does seems like there is some sort of processing issue, or maybe just a capacity problem. I wonder what training the ATCs get to be able to process so fast, and to speak giving detailed information quickly and without error. I’m a “no, I mean the other right!” car navigator, so the abilities of the really great ATCs we see do leave me in awe.
Controller's thoughts: *I wonder what I should have for lunch.*
SWISS: "PAN PAN. PAN PAN. PAN PAN."
Controller's thoughts: *Hmm. Yeah. Pan-fried eggs sounds great*
Controller: "Did you say something?"
Spanish people would think bread.
Having to communicate with ATC in the US sounds like a nightmare
yeah lol I was thinking the same
Its only gonna get better.....coming soon zero drug testing.....
It is
It’s not that bad, in the scheme of things. Probably the worst in the developed world. Full of non-standard RT. Just a reflection of how on the brink the US system is.
@@EdOeuna It’s getting 3rd World very fast
So frustrating listening to this ! It’s crazy
jeebus.. I feel bad for SWR19C, they had to repeat info many times and apparently their preferred runway was not relayed. this was frustrating to listen to.
I have found the US airspace is the worst for pilots who aren’t American. Very unprofessional compared to most of the world.
What even France? Or maybe China?
Japan is the absolute worst, barely understandable English. France at least uses standard phraseology. Russia and China needs special caution with height in meters not feet but controllers are experienced and competent (usually).
With all respect, your generalization of the "US airspace" makes me wonder if you're referring to AI controllers from flight sims? And I'm curious where in "most of the world" you've found ATCOs to be more professional.
Sadly, all aspects of American life are in decline.
I flew to China the other day. ATC is accented but very clear and highly standard. From the developed world American a is worst, by a margin.
I am a FO for China Airlines, and I hate flying to SFO or NY. Those controllers seem to not like their job and always mumbling. I fly to other asian and europen countries and all of them speak very clear English. English is my second language and sometimes its hard to understand when US controllers use slang.
Good video, thanks! It's cool how they all worked together so professionally. And yes per the other person's comment, I agree that there shouldn't have been the need to ask the pilot to repeat himself so many times.
I think the first controller was having his nails done. Not a single fk given, made the busy pilot repeat everything he said twice, despite being clear in pronounciation. Pull that first controller off for retraining.
The controllers level of English is terrible. I could understand the Swiss guys far more clearly than ATC!
Cockpit under attack, mk cool… fuel and souls? Fuel and souls? Hello fuel and souls? Ok we know you’re under attack but we’re going to make you switch frequencies for our convenience
It doesn't affect to the actual work on cockpit in any way, if someone is messing in the cabin. Crew didn't declare emergency (and even if it did, it would still need to change frequencies).
@@KoiranenAerospace They did decleare emergency at 2:28.
@@xxJohnxx77pan pan is not emergency call, it’s urgency call.
The approach controllers need hearing assistance I guess. That just wasn’t good.
Don't be gау
We don't know what the radio communication was like for the controller, do we? Maybe a problem with a headset or other problems.
Sure, they have hundreds of antennas on their facility. So probably not.
@@MobeansNJ I don't agree and if you follow these types of ATC videos you might see or hear that not everything is black and white.
@@trr4488 I listen to ATC often. And nothing was said here that should’ve tripped up these controllers. They sounded unprofessional. That’s just my opinion.
Nice to see USA ATC being equal opportunity employer and having deaf ATCs, they might benefit from some courses in English being native speakers and all. It's such a handicap for them😂
Nah they're just racist to everyone who isn't White American. That's all. No big deal. The usual American mentality.
One might say at least he is not visually impaired (to be politically correct).
He didn’t like the pronouns the pilot was using.
The US is a deteriorating joke at this point.
Air Canada pilots who are quebecois would have more of an accent than the slight intonation variance that these Swiss air pilots have. Something definitely wrong with the controller's headset or hearing. How would he understand british English I wonder.
48200 kilograms is 4 2/7 inches, right?
No, that will be 742 washing machines.
@blockbertus I need that in Bananas, please.
@@oliver9089 Got you, fam. Approx. 401.667 bananas.
@@blockbertus is that ripe bananas or plantains?
You best know what Kg is as your superiors in China use it
Well this sucks. We didn't get to see them drag the guy off.
What is wrong with the controller? Was his first day ? 😮💨
Why...WHY does the first controller make them repeat everything over and over?
Too busy getting off on his own supremacy.
We are Swiss, we have no pounds of fuel. Our fuel is all Kilograms!
Pretty much the whole world uses Kg except for the US
The entire world uses kg except the USA.
Well this is the us so if one wants to fly here learn what a pound is or don’t fly here.
@@gtm624 we'll see if that continues in the decades to come after China completely takes over, yes they Kg
"in other news an international incident occurred today when a UA-cam comment left by @@gtm624 effectively prohibited all non-domestic air travel within the united states. witnesses report this is due to a disagreement over fundamental units of measurement widely accepted in the civilised world being roundly rejected in favour of patriotism on behalf of the American citizen. the white house has refused to comment."
I can't even begin to understand the cost of that unruly passenger.
Good job in stressful circumstances. I liked the thoroughness to ensure good information despite hearing issues.
I wonder if the other passengers tried to restrain the out of control guy....
You would think they would be able to restrain him.
Your video asks if we have an interesting situation that should be published and boy do I...My cat (Mr Tiddlesworth) spent all of last Sunday morning looking at me in the most peculiar manner...Well I never thought much about it until he started to make the "hairball" noise (you know the..aack..aack...AACK sound followed by a hairball the size of a cigar lol) BUT this time no hairball...IT WAS A BUTTERFLY! LOL he had caught it and it got stuck....and the damn thing FLEW AWAY! LOL oh my goodness, Mildred and I laughed and laughed and thought this is something you have to share with the world..God Bless Tilly Landscome St Paul Minnesota.
Anyone who has ever watched the muppets That's the atc on this day Shocking from a380 pilot
My Great Dane & I got into a cockpit, we just asked the Captain for a tour when we pre-boarded.
"So we are declaring PAN-PAN, PAN-PAN, PAN-PAN" - "You are saying PAN-PAN?"
Greetings from Zürich Switzerland :)
Greetings! ❤️ Zurich! 🇨🇭
Pretty chill pilot for crazy dude trying to breach the cockpit. Maybe he's packing.
nah that’s the Swiss - very cool under pressure
Imagine the cost of this operation. Hopefully the unruly chap will have to pay the airline the full amount.
Did the controller forget to put his headset on or what? Why didn't he understand anything?
I’m just a casual listener but I find all these very interesting. Was reading the comments and it seemed ATC was behind the 8 ball. For a second there when the pilot asked what gate they were going to, I half expected the tower to say, “Pick one.”🤷♂️🤷♂️😁😁
At what point will the controller ever realize that the call sign is ‘Swiss’ and not ‘Swiss Air’?
The ATC was actually making me angry.
"Do you need to burn fuel?"
" NO SWISS 19C"
Sorry repeat that?"
"NO SWISS 19C"
"OKAY"
Every single comm was like this...
Do you include communication if heavy planes dump extra fuel?
The controller is drawling instead of speaking clearly. He needs training.
Passenger needs permanent flying ban from all airlines. He can walk or swim in future, and if he wants to fly tell him to flap his arms.
Why always the question in the US: "How many souls on board?" Are they gonna count them all before the police will arrest the unruly passenger once on the ground? There must be some passenger list in case of an emergency I assume. And a I assume a US controller should know that almost all airlines in the world except US based airlines use kilograms instead of pounds.
Souls on board is to check in case of dire emergencies and example is so the know nobody is lying under the fire suppressant foam and getting killed by being run over
And its ask in every country.
Shocking that both ATC’s can’t hear.
Well done to the pilot. Arrogant and stupid tower controllers. Go get your hearing tested ffs.
On the thumbnail I saw the Swiss Air jet and the request to return and have LEO ready and I said what? Then I saw the flight departed from EWR and it made more sense.
PAN PAN PAN PAN PAN PAN
...
- you're saying PAN PAN?
That controller is either hearing impaired or just likes making people repeat themselves unnecessarily
I didn't know so I looked this up... PAN-PAN - Used to indicate an urgent situation that doesn't pose an immediate danger to life or the vessel. For example, a pleasure craft that's broken down, out of gas, or lost in fog. MAYDAY - Used to indicate a distress condition, such as an imminent danger to life or a vessel. Distress communications take absolute priority over all other communications, and the word "Mayday" commands radio silence on the frequency in use. So I guess that's why the ATC kept asking whether they wanted to declare an emergency.
Yeah, in reality, both are treated as emergencies tho.
Choosing 22R, which is shorter than 22L, when asking for the fire brigade due hot brakes seems strange to me.
22R is a massively inset threshold; maybe they didn't check the landing distance?
22R is longer than 22L www.fly.faa.gov/Information/east/zny/ewr/atcCharts/EWR_IAP_00285IL22R.pdf I don't understand people like you.
The first two controllers were hopeless. The pilot was very clear and specific in his transmissions and the controllers did not seem to be focused on the job at hand.
Interesting how much the stress the language barrier was having during some transmissions. Anyone have any ideas on what happened with the approach controller? Different approach controller around 6:30. Seemed like the existing controller was struggling. I love watching these videos, but do not always truly understand what is happening because I am not trained in this area.
Depending on the aircraft location in the sky, there are published frequencies for that area. The initial controller may have initially some problem understanding, but the repeating got very silly. Standard phraseology was not always used by ATC here either. There are also approach and ground frequencies, and an extra one that they were required to check for latest weather or anything that will affect the safety of the aircraft. This is normal practice at larger airports worldwide.
Hope this helps.
@@si_vis_amari_ama Thanks!
Fuel remaining confusion between ATC and crew, here we go again.
Why is the sound quality so bad on ATC/Aircraft Radio that they have to repeat practically everything to be understood.
The pilot's vocal descent tracking the descent in altitude.
This controller is a good reflection of today's America.
I cannot believe that there are ATCs like that guy in Newark. It s scary.
What happened to the passenger?
Bottom line: AVOID AMERICA AT ALL COSTS!!!! 👎🇺🇸WAY TOO MANY SICKOS!!
BREZY. Love it!
Please replace that controller.
What a pain in the ass to listen to this controller! A lot of unneeded repeats, to me it doesn't seem that the swiss pilot was unclear!
So many read backs!
Funny how some people think the Callsign Swiss Air instead of Swiss is more important than repeating fuel amounts.
Oh, I don't know. I happen to think asking for fuel and souls of board is time wasted in an emergency. Souls on board will only be needed in a recovery operation. Can't that be gotten from dispatch? Also, since ATC can't give you more gas than you have what's the point of again, wasting time in an emergency. If the pilots are in a low fuel state, they will make that abundantly clear to ATC. Same if they have to dump fuel or hold to get to landing weight.
Poor guy must think his accent is too strong. I understood him perfectly.
Who's the native English speaker here?
Needs to be locked up for many many years.
Gus Grissom's complaint comes to mind: " "How are we going to get to the Moon if we can't talk between two or three buildings?"
That Brezy thing was just the controller trying to be a smartass, the pilot's reaction was awesome, could you spell it that again? Then still just saying it as a word instead of spelling 😂😂😂 What a waste of time and energy though
It is so disrespectful to pilots not to be LISTENING properly. Pilots know they cannot stuff up, as soon as they hear a lazy, incompetent ATC, they know it's all up to them now. Luckily pilots receive a lot more training and are fully aware of their responsibility.
You do not confirm a transmission with "VERY GOOD" during a PAN-PAN or MAYDAY I heard it as "SAY AGAIN" as well.
Pilot: I'd like to fly ILS approach.
This guy: What approach? Say that again?
This is is too painful to listen to
The danger/ irritation to swiss 19C heavy was not the unruly pax onboard but the controller with some sort of hearing or processing disorder - repeat, repeat, repeat.
I understood him the first time and I am not Swiss. Both sides talk too fast with no COMMAS or PERIODS or any stylization of grammatical punctuation.
Lousy controllers.
It is ridiculous how many times they had to go back and forth on the fuel confirmation with regards to the numerical value as well as the unit of measure. That is crucial time wasted if it was a different more urgent situation. Why is there not a standard unit of measure for fuel for ATC? Half the time they request the amount in weight, half the time they request the amount in hours/time.
I’d like to weigh in on the whole Pan/Pam situation
If I remember correctly, the clairty at which we hear their radio traffic is not the same clarity at which they hear it.
yeah, usually we hear it worse
That first TRACON Dude is supposed to say " Say intentions" and then aid the flight crew. Not commence this repeated interrogation.
Shouldn’t the pilot have reported a PAN PAN from the start? Otherwise, there’s no perceived urgency on the part of first controller.
That one ATC had the mental acuity of a sloth. I cannot ever understand why they ask for souls on board every damn time when it is literally given in each flight plan.
Asking it is fine. Having to ask it 5 times over is a bit much
Is the first controller deaf?
Sounds like the passenger may have been rooming around during the landing. It must have been quite a bad experience for passengers around them.
Don't get in a flap about it. As long as the pilots are unflappable, having no flaps is not a problem.
Omg why did the ATC not listen? Busy? Distracted? Lazy?
What's that? pounds?
No tonnes
Pounds?
No kilogrammes?
Pounds?
KILOS!