I have been reading many of the comments on this video. It is my generator. It is not brand new. It is about 5.5 years old. Jim was probably the only one in the world that could fix it. Most of you have missed the point of his video. The powerhead ultimately did not stop making power. The shrink tube on the neutral was not allowing the power to be sent to the outlets. It was a spectacular find by Jim. The 3-hour ride to him allowed it to work again once I arrived. I agree that the problem was a QC issue and I have no skin in the game for B&S. But... I did not know if this unit which is an Elite 8000, would be fixable (financially) and since we live on a farm, I purchased another generator. A Generac GP8000e. In my estimation as an engineer, though the Briggs had an issue it is 10X the generator as far as build quality and ergonomics that my new Generac is. I come from a background as a calibration engineer in the auto industry. EVERY manufacturer has issues. This is NOT defending Briggs but the reality of life. Some are better than others, but they all have potential problems. And in regard to the cost of the breaker, I agree it was high but in the scheme of life I do not suggest fighting over the price of a part that will be essential to a rescue tool if the power goes out. If you listen to the unit under load, it sounds beautiful to me, an engine calibration engineer. In regard to the THD, yes Briggs lied about less than 6%, BUT my new Generac has less THD under no load which though foundational is meaningless, but much more than the Briggs with less than 3,000 watts on it. The Generac with a 2,750-watt resistive load has more THD (17%%) than the Briggs with 3,000 watts and a 1,200-watt inductive load on it at the same time. In closing, I paid $999 for the Briggs new and $1,049 for the Generac. As an engineer, the Briggs is built like a tank compared to the Generac and only time will tell which will last longer. Simply put... they are all marginal. I did not want to buy an inverter generator due to its complexity and regardless of the brand, marginal quality of the electronic parts. None of these units use electronics that are medical or aviation grade. They need to come in at a price point that the consumer will accept. Thus, I am keeping both the Briggs and the new Generac. As Jim so correctly says... if you want a reliable portable generator... buy two!
It is interesting to see your viewpoint Ray. Buying manufactured items is always a balance between quality and price. I am an old timer and I have seen the quality of manufactured items plummet over 50 years. I suppose taking inflation into account they are cheaper now. I have taken to buying cheaper products these days because I came to the conclusion that replacing items more frequently is still cheaper than paying more for them with their somewhat greater longevity. Many of the faults on the cheaper items are still cheap and easy to fix. So I do still make some effort at repair but I will not buy expensive spare parts. If I cannot replace them with something different or something cheaper then I call it. James keeps a big stash of used parts from failed machines and that keeps the cost right down. He also sometimes uses much cheaper generic parts. Its the only way that James does not make a loss on his sales. Taking into account the labour costs of taking anything to a workshop then we can all see why repairing anything has become so rare. We all decry this of course but as you say Ray, it is the world we live in.
@@r8118830 I agree with you 100%. But especially today, there is so many low-quality parts from China and other places. In the auto industry about 20 years ago it was calculated at a 6:1 ratio. It is probably much higher now. One dollar spent at the production level ended up adding $6.00 to the sticker price of a car. Also, what many do not recognize is when you get into electrical parts at the circuit board level there is a huge difference in quality. Biomedical equipment, avionics, MIL spec and even automobiles use much higher quality. That often shows itself as thermal and vibration tolerance, duty-cycle life, and drift. For example, a $1.00 10-ohm resistor versus for argument's sake a $10.00 one will drift considerably at higher and even lower temperatures. Life is complicated today and especially with electronics. I personally, but may be wrong, believe that even the best inverter generator is not made with parts that are much better than a cheaper one. Also, as with an inverter, you are taking AC, switching it to DC to scrub it, and converting back to AC. Any part that fails in that conversion circuitry means the unit is worthless. I would glad pay double or triple for something such as a generator if the manufacturer would openly prove the value of their electronics, which none do. Electronics for most part is a whore's business. We (the industry) know how to make it bullet proof, but as you say, it is a cost balance ratio. Also, there is not the economy of scale with many items such as a portable generator. To my way of thinking, again I may be wrong, none of these companies use parts that are much if any better. At least with a portable I can wheel it away and plug a different one into my transfer switch. I looked at what many consider the gold standard, Honda, before buying the Briggs. It was 3X the price and no one could show me any additional quality that was tangible (non-inverter). They, even the Honda corporation, kept repeating the empty words, "you are buying Honda quality". I would say, OK, please give me hard data and not a line from the marketing department and I would hear silence. When I was a younger man in the auto industry, I learned that all companies copy one another. The Toyota inline six-cylinder in the Land Cruiser was an AMC 232 six-cylinder that was made to metric dimensions so nothing from the AMC fit. A 1/2 inch hole became 13 mm. So... you take your most educated guess, put your money down, and hope for the best. For every brand that someone swears by, there at the same number of people that had bad luck and would never purchase it again. So is life! Have a blessed day.
We moved into a new house and the unfinished basement lights were dim. I checked the voltage and found 60 vAC. Opened the breaker panel and found the neutral wire landed on the insulation and it showed evidence of arcing. Removed wire, cut off the end and re-terminated. Ta-Dah! So it's not just portable generators. Another great video Jim!
As a professional electrician for over 20 years, I can say that neutral connection was most certainly the culprit. I've seen this more than once. Good troubleshooting only comes from experience, and you seem to be doing very well!
What threw me off was the statement that each leg dropped to 55 volts under load. I (incorrectly) took that to mean that the voltage on the loaded leg as well as the unloaded leg were both dropping simultaneously. In such a situation the unloaded leg would shoot up to 185 volts. I did not realize he might have only tested the loaded leg.
These plates that fell out of the circuit breaker are arc arrestors/quenchers. They're there to absorb the energy from the arc when the breaker is opened under load and to prevent it from staying on.
James, I've said it before; your troubleshooting skills are superb. You move steady, are patient, don't assume things and trust what your meters tell you. A reading of 0.3 ohms is good, but above that is suspect. I foolishly would say "that is in range, looks good.". And after it ran for 10 minutes you didn't "assume" it was OK, you continued to keep troubleshooting. Just superb work. Ray was smart to bring this to you, I agree with him, "It was a spectacular find by Jim". A shop would run it 2 minutes and say everything is good. Whatever company you work for is lucky to have you, and I hope they realize it! And a Megger meter! I remember using those in my military training back in the 70's. LOL, brought back memories...
Well, the Gen Master has proven again that Quality control is definitely a problem with these generators. More proof that James is a Master at diagnosing Power head problems thanks again for the heads up, James!
Another great video James! Good on you for checking your previous videos and following up with those owners to see if the same problem was at fault. I truly believe that your diagnostic method is the reason why you are so successful. Not to mention that you're also a really nice guy in real life! Cheers and looking forward to the next video!
Shortly after a live on Steve's Small Engine Saloon, where Steve mentioned you as the BEST regarding generators... this video poped up on the right as a suggestion. This is the first video that I have watched from you Sir, and I must say Thank you! This is golden! I own a small generator and I am definitely saving this video!!! Many cheers and best wishes for you and your family looking forward.
I was in the advanced electronics field as a sonar technician in the Navy and joined the Army as a power generation technician 52D and reclassified into prime power generation MOS-52E. Retired and worked as a field service technician for Detroit Diesel in land based and marine generators as well as marine propulsion. There were times that during the flight to some generator at some wild place, I would be stressing. You don’t want to get there and look clueless around the site engineers. You do get to the point, after working on thousands of generators, that you pretty much have it “on lock”. There are always ‘little’ things that can just destroy your sanity. Great videos! I have thought about doing some jobs on all the tiny (3K-10k) generators that come through my area on RV’s. People have said that I could make a killing but, man it is nice not stressing the little shit 😀
I was always taught that the first tool of troubleshooting is visual inspection. I guess that hasn't changed much. Nice catch. Something like that can make you chase your tail forever.
Excellent video and good warning for others with the same machine. It is so easy for a small bad design or manufacturing issue to create big problems. Dave.
Hi James. Another fantastic piece of troubleshooting. At the end of all of your videos you say “ I hope this helps someone”. Since I’ve been watching your videos, I have repaired three carburetors and diagnosed 1 burned up Generac GP7000e… Make no mistake, your videos help a lot of people!
after you had that ohm value going up and down on the 240 volt outlet the first thing I thought was loose electrical conection on the 2 pole outlet ,you right on it ,good job!
You discovered several points in faulty manufacture. I hope that the makers have seen this and acted accordingly, if not then they need their knuckles wrapped. People pay good money for these products, plus it puts the name of Briggs and Stratton in the mire. I have come to respect them a lot. Again thanks for yet another informative and pleasant to watch video, jam packed with great ideas and innovation. Cracking stuff :)
Awesome detective work! Not only should the shrink tubing be cut back and the zip tie be added (what we’re they thinking with there?!) but they should use toothed lock washers on electrical connections for better surface contact. Someone should bring this video to the attention of Briggs, they really should issue a recall IMO.
Another fantastic video that shows you being methodical and knowledgeable resulting in a great diagnosis. Step by Step leaving nothing out. This obviously works best when you have all those hours of experience. Going back to check previous was outstanding. I can't tell you how impressed I am with how you approach your troubleshooting.
James, I'm a new subscriber. I wanted to let you know how very much enjoy every minute of your videos. After watching just one video, I knew I had to subscribe. The knowledge you share is invaluable and I think we all can learn from your methodical and rational troubleshooting. I have a basic knowledge of the principals of electricity but am seriously lacking in troubleshooting ability. I particularly enjoy your explanations of your troubleshooting strategy. That's a great help to me. Thanks so much.
I had a problem before on a safety gate where the issue was intermittent and i found shrink tube like that covering the wire connector. It insulated the connection and caused problems.
I own a Briggs and Stratton that is almost 20 yrs old. It was bought following a hurricane and has been used when needed. Always makes power. Run once a year for about an hour, with a load and oil changed when needed. Great machine. Had to repair the plastic gas tank a couple years ago, with a plastic welding kit from harbor freight. If you surmise I am plugging a Briggs generator, you are right.
Great find, invaluable info! I own an older Generac 5500 Wheelhouse and a newer Ryobi 5500 generator. I'll be going through the carbs on each and will inspect the gen head leads for the shrink tubing issue. Also ordered a P3 Kill-O-Watt meter for tuning my machines. Thanks, James.
Great catch on the heat shrink over the neutral terminal. I agree with you about the circuit breaker wiring allowing excessive current. I checked the printed wiring diagram for our Predator generator and it is is configured the way you redid this one. The 2-pole breaker is grossly over priced, as others have posted that is a few dollar part.
A color thermal imaging camera would be an expensive but nice addition to your diagnostic tool kit. Any exposed sketchy resistance locations will show right up giving off bright heat spots while under full load testing.
Look up the infiray P2 pro, only around 220 bucks (attaches to your phone), has twice the resolution and frame rate as the $400 name brand FLIR phone attachment. Mine has been a godsend
Thank you for this very informative video. I successfully diagnosed my failed generator at the 22 min mark when I removed the brushes and found one destroyed. Very low hours but just out of warranty. HF is still going to get an earful
Good find! Your videos have turned into my entertainment while I’m at the hotel working out of town (I do scheduled pms on backup generators-mostly 3 phase 600v but the portables also)
James, I pulled my dad's Storm Responder apart after watching your video (it's a 6250 running, 8500 surge model 30728) and lo and behold! I actually had to trim up the shrink tubing on three wires (ground, neutral and one leg) going to the junction block. This particular one has the 4-wire block. What saved him was that he really hasn't run it long enough yet (less than 20 hours) for the problem to become apparent. We went the extra step to check and make certain that the shrink tubing wasn't too long on the other end (inside the control panel) but they were fine. I'm certain your video saved him from either down-time or a low-voltage disaster. On another note, a Duromax XP10000EH I've got tore down ALSO HAD THE SHRINK-TUBING ISSUE on one leg! I think that Chinese quality control is the primary culprit, and I'll be watching for it from now on! My dad (a huge fan of yours BTW) and I both send our thanks.
The quality control issues are definitely not limited to Briggs these days. Glad you were able to sort that issue out now instead of when the generator is needed.
I have watched many of your videos to learn from you and your troubleshooting is amazing. I hope someday I can figure out my Powermate 5000 6250 intermitent no power issue but I am a rookie at troubleshooting electrical issues. I took it in to get repaired and it worked perfectly. I brought it home and it worked perfectly. I went to use it recently and once again it had no power. It only has a few hours of use and it has been stored inside its entire life. In so many ways it is brand new. Keep doing your videos!
After watching all your videos I think I should get some kind of completion certificate, acknowledging that I know very little about fixing generators!!
Way back when I was an apprentice My journeyman told me to “make it shiny”. Meaning make sure that you could see just a tiny bit of copper at each connection. Now that is just a general rule of thumb, there are devices that will not show any copper at the connection. So you have to know how each connection is supposed to be made. I was in the trade for 43 years and saw many examples of loose connections on neutral connections. The common term for bad neutrals is “ a floating neutral”.Neutrals can be very hard to trouble shoot! As the fault gets closer to the source of the power the more severe the effects are. One symptom I learned to look for was odd, generally low,voltage readings when using ground as the reference. Over time I made a habit of making voltage readings with neutral as my reference point. This was a great help in spotting bad neutrals. The bulb that blew at the beginning of the tests was actually a possible symptom of a bad neutral. I have seen cases of half the light bulbs in a home, my brother’s house in fact,blown by a floating neutral.
This was an interesting one, seems like there are quality control issues at the factory where these generators are made, great work fixing this one James!
Very interesting. I hope that the message gets to the manufacturer so that the issue can be fixed. I keep thinking about buying a generator but power does not go out very often here. We just had a blizzard and others nearby did lose power. Looks like I've delayed the purchase long enough and will check a few things before I put it into service. Thanks for all of the great videos!
My Kohler standby generator recently stopped working properly. The generator started and ran but the transfer switch would not switch. The generator brain box thought everything was fine. Upon investigation, I discovered one phase was low volts. Upon further investigation I discovered the breaker was bad (it is a 40 A square D breaker). The brain box in the generator was seeing the good voltage coming out of the stator. But the transfer switch was seeing the voltage after the bad breaker. The new breaker was 40 bucks. Now everything is working properly. But it was hard to change the breaker. Anyway, thanks for making all these videos.
As an electrical engineer that circuit breaker is a part that is designed to fail.! The vibrations of the motor are causing the contacts in the breaker to arc and at some point will eather weld the contacts that they don't work or burn open the contacts. High vibration circuits breakers need to be aircraft type circuit breaker that are designed to take high vibration.
Great video I've been looking for this for months. My generator runs fine for about a half hour then starts to cut off power a couple of minutes at a time but comes back and picks up where it left off. I checked L1 and L2 and they're almost the same. I checked brushes and resistance on all the wires a o k there too. I changed the regulator and no change the only thing left was the breaker and I couldn't find how to test it. Now I know. Thank you. I run my whole house on it for half the peak hours and it saves me about a third of my bill . I run the ac refer freezer and four ceiling fans while my wife makes dinner .it's a 12K and cost me $700. Bucks. It should pay for itself and the new surcuit by next summer if I can get it fixed. Thanks again Jim
Great video and diagnosis 👍. I've worked on many different types of generators and most often it comes down to bad connections or faulty parts. Staters and windings normally don't go bad, though I've found bad workmanship on coatings. BTW, those little "things" that fell out of the breaker are "arcing shims" to reduce wear to contact surfaces 😁👍
Good video. As a professional electrical contractor, retired I can say that a loose neutral can definitely cause the problems you described. Just a note about your setup with extension cords. Cords that are left coiled up, will creat an inductive kick. That kick acts as a voltage choke, the greater the load, the more voltage drop. In the older GFIC breakers the voltage drop creates a inbalace between the current flow and causes the GFIC breaker to trip. Also note that the use of digital meters can create various phantom issues as the digital meters are much more sensitive and do , give erroneous readings being old school I personal like an old Simpson 260. With its, analogue display because gives a slight load to what you are testing. However to each their own. Your use of the megger was great for testing break downs in insulation. I personally found that compressed air for blowing out dust and foreign matter in the windings . A vacuum worked much better when inspecting the windings on the stator. That damage could only be found with a megger. Good job. Your videos are not only educational, but entertaining when I cant sleep.
I'm noticing that contacts that are exposed to hours of vibration tend to get dirty and open up, fail or increase their resistance over the contacts. I have had that problem in places on my generator.. One place was the power saving switch that totally quit and needed replacing for just vibration failure. LOVE THE VIDS. 37.2 is a new switch. It had to be contaminated.
25 year electrician. I'd also speculate that the neutral not getting a good connection could've caused a conductor overheat and melted the terminals on that cheap Chinese breaker causing them to loosen up. Also, Usually when we test outlets and see 55v, it almost always turns out to be an open neutral somewhere. It seems to me that the seats of those main terminals are not very good. I've had similar situations and my solution is to find 3 "perfectly sized" washers for each terminal. One under, one between, & one on top of each ring terminal in order to create that flat sandwiching effect on the rings provided you have enough threads but you usually do in most cases. Anyways, good vid! You are very good at what you do.
Again, this was another informative video; your presentation was right on. The adjustable multi-meter holder is great, and I will buy one. Every time I watch your videos, I buy new tools.
U.K. - Briggs and Stratton only made the engine not what went wrong. I don't like their engines but fair's fair. (Splash lubrication, no oil filter, no proper bearings, plastic gears - asking for trouble)
@@jp-um2fr briggs and stratton are putting their name on the whole thing not just the engine. Yes I know briggs doesn't specifically make the generator parts. Most likely that's done in China. However us consumers used to be able to trust ANY briggs product and just within the last 10 years they have gone downhill alot in terms of overall quality of ALL their products. Just cause they don't make it doesn't mean they don't control the level of quality.
@@michaelmactavish4445 diesel generators are just better overall if you don't need clean electricity. If you need clean power nothing beats these new inverter generators
@@Exploder206 yeah the kubotas has the 2 way hook ups on theres wich has run it to the house or can use cords plus nice kubota generator parts are from there tractors too wich makes it easy and holds 7.8 gallons of feul and can run 24 hours with out refeuling up wich its the best set up then any other generators
Thank you James for another great video. I only recently purchased a new generator for backup at my house. I also ordered a breakout cord and voltage and frequency monitor to check out everything. I am more confident after watching your videos that I can diagnose and maintain one only as a Novice. I have Gas for heat but having electricity for my wife and I makes since. I only purchased 4750/3800 but that should run lights along with refrigerator and freezer. I bought a duel fuel with propane so I will not run gasoline unless I have to as to not worrying about fuel contamination. We live in a small town and seldom have power failure. Thanks again.
#Danny Treadway - Does Propane fueal (or Natural Gas if tri is an option) cause higher valve/head temperatures or valve lubrication/wear problems, when compared to using gasoline? Usually the max rated engine/output power is also lower compared to gasoline.
Having worked for many years in factory maintenance, I observed numerous issues with various components on our generator manufacturing lines, and was tasked with developing and constructing much of the on-line and life test equipment. One of the early product failures was with the cheaper push to reset breakers. Engineering found that they were thermal breakers, and were false tripping when things warmed up. We switched to magnetic trip, and the problem went away. Easy identification: Magnetic trip have a whiteish case, and the thermal ones are black. Another problem found was the poor quality of the no-name wiring devices. This caused us to go to all Hubbell outlets. By the way, not all GFI outlets play well together, causing false tripping. Switching to Hubbell solved this problem also, although I am not certain why! Finally, when we bought outlets in large quantities price ceased to be a primary consideration. (A $14 part became a $3 part, when bought by the skid.) Unfortunately, Chinese parts killed the moderate priced market. Manufacturing and distribution costs often exceeded the selling price. You get what you pay for...sometimes.
I alter that saying a bit: "You don't get what you don't pay for." For what this breaker cost it should have been delivered on a silver platter pre-installed yet it was junk...
I'd love to hear more on your thoughts about Chinese parts killed the moderate market. Take a $15 carburetor on a Briggs lawnmower. I bought the $45 version since I'd heard stories, but have learned to ream out any small orifice with little wires and tiny drill bits. I bought a ultrasonic clearner, etc. IF Chinese parts have killed the moderate priced market, what is to be done? Fix old stuff? DDay, Maine
Great video James. This proved without a doubt that with the inferior components and crappy quality control lead to these failures. B&S is a brand that can not be trusted. Profits over quality is a formula for disaster.
Good point Ray, I agree with you 100%. Jim, Another great video as always. Always learn something new each one. May be small, may be large but I like learning. Thanks, and keep them coming.
I just traded a Ryobi 6500 W generator for a 6250 W (realistically no difference in power output) Briggs & Stratton Storm responder 6250! I love the way the Briggs & Stratton is built. It has a phenomenal display with very useful information and it is a little bit quieter than the Ryobi. I trust that it will give me many years of service as it is only three years old. BTW, my main circuit breaker shuts off all the outlets.
At about the 40:03 minute mark it appears as if the eylets on the large circuit breaker you replaced also have the same heat shrink problem you pointed out on the neutral. (covering some of the eylet) Absolutely fantastic troubleshooting. Cheers! I have also seen similar erratic readings with capacitance build up between disimmaller metals used in contacts. Zinc washers were the fix in that case. While I don't see that relate to this case it can yield similar anomalies.
I watched 2 vids back to back and I was totally into this process! I don't have this kind of generator but it's nice to know how troubleshoot issues that may come up.
Excellent video! There are two ways switches and circuit breakers get damaged like that. Hit from the front or in your case Over tighten when installing. I suggest trying to support the legs when tighten screw with long nose pliers.
Nice find about the shrinking tube that is on the ground. I am at @40:20 in the video. I did heard that you switched the 120 volts circuit behind the 30 amp breaker in the circuit. I think that is a bad decision that breaker will open at 7200 watt output total. The generator is an 8kw steady 12kw peak, in no way it will ever be able to provide more than 7.2kw anymore if you leave the wiring like this. Those breaker are not there to prevent overload of the generator but to prevent the electrical wiring connected to the generator from pulling too much current and be a fire hazard. if there should be some protection against overload of the generator it should be at the generator level as a slow fuse or a heat sensor of the wiring, Yes it is a bad idea to have the 30 amp breaker labeled as main power off/on. And that is more the problem in the case of this generator. But again like you found. That neutral cable was surely a big problem with the power stability
That is some good diagnosing and catching the little things. Sometimes, not often, just sometimes, I thought your diagnosing was a bit tedious, but in cases like this it saves a lot of frustration and time.
Great information. I have a newer model storm responder but have not had time to check to see if the zip tie is present. I hope to check it this weekend. I will also check the shrink tube on the main wires. Great observation and great video as always.
My Elite 8000 did have the zip tie installed from the factory and my experience is only with this unit. It is wise to check yours and the other issue mine had in the powerhead.
Just recently came across your channel and subscribed. Enjoy your video quality and troubleshooting techniques! I live in a rural area where we experience frequent outages. We have two Honda inverter generators, one I just converted to propane. They take care of our meager needs, but I'm always trying to stay more educated. I was particularly interested in the THD and sine wave from this type generator. I never knew they were that "dirty". Thanks, Rich
Extraordinary knowledge of subject is good, as are fine workmanship skills. But what really blows my mind in your patience and doggedness. I have to confess that I would just give up long before you get to the point where you've excluded things that should be excluded and figured out the answer to the mystery. A tip of my impatient hat!
GREAT job as usual. B&S is VERY proud of that circuit breaker which could be Chinese. Same thing for $73 at Amazon which is still a bit high. If the 120 outlets had been on the load side of the "gold plated" 240V circuit breaker, the problem would have also shown up on them too. Star washers make great electrical connections plus being a good lock washer.
@@jcondon1 Assembled maybe? It's more fun to blame the Chinese. Anyway, since the wiggly posts caused wiggly contacts, could the posts be place in fixed position with epoxy around the meeting points with the plastic to resist movement by vibration as a way to repair the CB? One good CB out of three is pathetic. And that's not to say repeated vibration combined with the stress of those short wires pulling at the posts won't cause a good CB to fail eventually. And thanks for all your videos. What a privilege to have a machine gone over with a fine tooth comb by you. Worth every penny you charge and/or get monetized. Hats off to you, sir. You are the embodiment of the spirit of American ingenuity.
I just bought brand new champion 4500w inverter generator with remote control it was keep dying on me watching your videos help me it was breathing tube problem assembly recall tube goes into airfilter box was short end kinked please share with your subscribers they can call champion and get the right tube and if fuel tank sucks in they will send new tank too,nice videos keep up with good work thx…
$80 for a Chinese POS breaker? If the generator were mine, I would install an aircraft breaker that is speced 9 ways to Christmas & would cost about half the Briggs breaker. BTW, those colored jumper you use are infamous for being intermittent. use them to test communications radios & instruments, but I test them each time I use the,. Another great troubleshooting video James, & done with your usual introspection & articulate explanation. Happy New Year !
Couple of observations: 1. If the circuit breaker were going ohmic, then I would expect to see evidence of overheating. 2. It's possible that the first replacement breaker is not defective. The contacts look like a base metal, which if true, could be forming a film due to corrosion and an ohmmeter doesn't have a high enough test voltage to punch through that layer. A better test is to measure the voltage across the contacts under load. 3. The 120V receptacles appear to have push-in contacts and I've seen these become intermittent. 4. I'm wondering if those shims that feel out of the breaker is how the interrupt current is set? AC breakers typically don't need arc quench at these voltages and they didn't appear to be magnetized.
The generator is wired correctly because it’s capable of 66.6 amps total or 33.3 per leg. Also I had the same issue with my Briggs generator. Great videos
1.3.23 James, another great video. Question: What do you have to say about the Westinghouse 9500DF? Have you had any repairs on them? Thanks for taking the time to make these repair videos.
13:40 'Red wire goes on the left'. I'm a bit confused. That's the way the wires were found. Thanks for the video and all your videos. I always enjoy them. 👍
I admire and enjoy James methodical and almost text book approach to these repairs. As a commercial and industrial refrigeration service engineer I’m more than a little jealous of the un-pressured, clean and dry environment he portrays in your videos. For me I’ve had 33 years of fault finding and repairing at -20+, pouring rain on a roof or one hand on a ladder and often poor light conditions standing on pallets of frozen produce. If a customers freezer with £1,000,000 of stock has gone down and time is against you then you often have to cut corners to get the repair done and can seldom follow a calm text book approach but have to work with what you can, what the customer will accept and not always what would be preferred. In the uk just about everything has been through Chinese manufacturing today which usually means manufacturing to a low price and speed rather than quality. It’s rare to get even commercial equipment lasting more than a year or two without failure, and old household names have signed with the devil for cheap production. I still have customers with 30-40 year old equipment made in the uk that still works, you have to ask yourself what’s better for the environment.
Great video as usual . Can you add an invertor to a generator so that it could be used with a heat pump. If so would really like to see a video addressing this issue
All the inverters I see run on DC. I am sure there must be something available. Inverter generator produce high voltage 3 phase dc, convert it to DC and feed it into the inverter. Would be cheaper most likely to buy an inverter generator. The only downside is cost and more to break.
This was an excellent video. You are doing a great service to folks that have generator issues. Have a Happy New Year. I look forward to more videos from you.
As usual James attention to detail and tenacity finds the problem, I love these videos because I take guesses along the way and to be honest out of all your videos I think I’ve only been right once 😂 so I’ll take that as the broken clock saying!
Really informative... As the electrical side is certainly my weak spot, I will likely watch this one a few times and make some notes. Odd that the loose connections in the circuit breaker made it through QC where ever it was made. Even China when making stuff for the USA market seem to at least try and test a few. In this case, I very much doubt I would have known to even check that. Lessons still being learned. Thanks for the detailed discussion...
I have been reading many of the comments on this video. It is my generator. It is not brand new. It is about 5.5 years old. Jim was probably the only one in the world that could fix it. Most of you have missed the point of his video. The powerhead ultimately did not stop making power. The shrink tube on the neutral was not allowing the power to be sent to the outlets. It was a spectacular find by Jim. The 3-hour ride to him allowed it to work again once I arrived. I agree that the problem was a QC issue and I have no skin in the game for B&S. But... I did not know if this unit which is an Elite 8000, would be fixable (financially) and since we live on a farm, I purchased another generator. A Generac GP8000e. In my estimation as an engineer, though the Briggs had an issue it is 10X the generator as far as build quality and ergonomics that my new Generac is. I come from a background as a calibration engineer in the auto industry. EVERY manufacturer has issues. This is NOT defending Briggs but the reality of life. Some are better than others, but they all have potential problems. And in regard to the cost of the breaker, I agree it was high but in the scheme of life I do not suggest fighting over the price of a part that will be essential to a rescue tool if the power goes out. If you listen to the unit under load, it sounds beautiful to me, an engine calibration engineer. In regard to the THD, yes Briggs lied about less than 6%, BUT my new Generac has less THD under no load which though foundational is meaningless, but much more than the Briggs with less than 3,000 watts on it. The Generac with a 2,750-watt resistive load has more THD (17%%) than the Briggs with 3,000 watts and a 1,200-watt inductive load on it at the same time. In closing, I paid $999 for the Briggs new and $1,049 for the Generac. As an engineer, the Briggs is built like a tank compared to the Generac and only time will tell which will last longer. Simply put... they are all marginal. I did not want to buy an inverter generator due to its complexity and regardless of the brand, marginal quality of the electronic parts. None of these units use electronics that are medical or aviation grade. They need to come in at a price point that the consumer will accept. Thus, I am keeping both the Briggs and the new Generac. As Jim so correctly says... if you want a reliable portable generator... buy two!
It is interesting to see your viewpoint Ray. Buying manufactured items is always a balance between quality and price. I am an old timer and I have seen the quality of manufactured items plummet over 50 years. I suppose taking inflation into account they are cheaper now. I have taken to buying cheaper products these days because I came to the conclusion that replacing items more frequently is still cheaper than paying more for them with their somewhat greater longevity. Many of the faults on the cheaper items are still cheap and easy to fix. So I do still make some effort at repair but I will not buy expensive spare parts. If I cannot replace them with something different or something cheaper then I call it. James keeps a big stash of used parts from failed machines and that keeps the cost right down. He also sometimes uses much cheaper generic parts. Its the only way that James does not make a loss on his sales. Taking into account the labour costs of taking anything to a workshop then we can all see why repairing anything has become so rare. We all decry this of course but as you say Ray, it is the world we live in.
@@r8118830 I agree with you 100%. But especially today, there is so many low-quality parts from China and other places. In the auto industry about 20 years ago it was calculated at a 6:1 ratio. It is probably much higher now. One dollar spent at the production level ended up adding $6.00 to the sticker price of a car. Also, what many do not recognize is when you get into electrical parts at the circuit board level there is a huge difference in quality. Biomedical equipment, avionics, MIL spec and even automobiles use much higher quality. That often shows itself as thermal and vibration tolerance, duty-cycle life, and drift. For example, a $1.00 10-ohm resistor versus for argument's sake a $10.00 one will drift considerably at higher and even lower temperatures. Life is complicated today and especially with electronics. I personally, but may be wrong, believe that even the best inverter generator is not made with parts that are much better than a cheaper one. Also, as with an inverter, you are taking AC, switching it to DC to scrub it, and converting back to AC. Any part that fails in that conversion circuitry means the unit is worthless. I would glad pay double or triple for something such as a generator if the manufacturer would openly prove the value of their electronics, which none do. Electronics for most part is a whore's business. We (the industry) know how to make it bullet proof, but as you say, it is a cost balance ratio. Also, there is not the economy of scale with many items such as a portable generator. To my way of thinking, again I may be wrong, none of these companies use parts that are much if any better. At least with a portable I can wheel it away and plug a different one into my transfer switch. I looked at what many consider the gold standard, Honda, before buying the Briggs. It was 3X the price and no one could show me any additional quality that was tangible (non-inverter). They, even the Honda corporation, kept repeating the empty words, "you are buying Honda quality". I would say, OK, please give me hard data and not a line from the marketing department and I would hear silence. When I was a younger man in the auto industry, I learned that all companies copy one another. The Toyota inline six-cylinder in the Land Cruiser was an AMC 232 six-cylinder that was made to metric dimensions so nothing from the AMC fit. A 1/2 inch hole became 13 mm. So... you take your most educated guess, put your money down, and hope for the best. For every brand that someone swears by, there at the same number of people that had bad luck and would never purchase it again. So is life! Have a blessed day.
@@Ray-su4oz well said, sir!
We moved into a new house and the unfinished basement lights were dim. I checked the voltage and found 60 vAC. Opened the breaker panel and found the neutral wire landed on the insulation and it showed evidence of arcing. Removed wire, cut off the end and re-terminated. Ta-Dah! So it's not just portable generators. Another great video Jim!
@@randallraker4036 Thank you.
The very end of the vid with the shrink tubing issue was worth watching the whole thing. Finding that kind of stuff is pure gold.
I felt the same way about the zip tie gun! Already have one of those gems on order!
As a professional electrician for over 20 years, I can say that neutral connection was most certainly the culprit. I've seen this more than once. Good troubleshooting only comes from experience, and you seem to be doing very well!
Thanks
He's definitely very observant. Not many people would ever notice that.
The guy is brilliant. Hats off!! prob is it cost cutting Chinese Junk
Outstanding detective work James. You’re a real pro and I learn something every time I watch one of your videos. Thank you!
What threw me off was the statement that each leg dropped to 55 volts under load. I (incorrectly) took that to mean that the voltage on the loaded leg as well as the unloaded leg were both dropping simultaneously. In such a situation the unloaded leg would shoot up to 185 volts. I did not realize he might have only tested the loaded leg.
These plates that fell out of the circuit breaker are arc arrestors/quenchers. They're there to absorb the energy from the arc when the breaker is opened under load and to prevent it from staying on.
Makes perfect sense, cool to know.
James, I've said it before; your troubleshooting skills are superb. You move steady, are patient, don't assume things and trust what your meters tell you. A reading of 0.3 ohms is good, but above that is suspect. I foolishly would say "that is in range, looks good.". And after it ran for 10 minutes you didn't "assume" it was OK, you continued to keep troubleshooting. Just superb work. Ray was smart to bring this to you, I agree with him, "It was a spectacular find by Jim". A shop would run it 2 minutes and say everything is good. Whatever company you work for is lucky to have you, and I hope they realize it! And a Megger meter! I remember using those in my military training back in the 70's. LOL, brought back memories...
Well, the Gen Master has proven again that Quality control is definitely a problem with these generators. More proof that James is a Master at diagnosing Power head problems thanks again for the heads up, James!
Thank you for providing the waveform. I hope you will continue to use the scope so we can get a feel for what to expect from the different generators.
@@the_rational_thinker_00 Yes.
Another great video James! Good on you for checking your previous videos and following up with those owners to see if the same problem was at fault. I truly believe that your diagnostic method is the reason why you are so successful. Not to mention that you're also a really nice guy in real life! Cheers and looking forward to the next video!
Thanks!
He is a lovely guy really
Shortly after a live on Steve's Small Engine Saloon, where Steve mentioned you as the BEST regarding generators... this video poped up on the right as a suggestion.
This is the first video that I have watched from you Sir, and I must say Thank you! This is golden!
I own a small generator and I am definitely saving this video!!! Many cheers and best wishes for you and your family looking forward.
Thanks! First I heard that he mentioned me. Will have to watch that right now.
@@jcondon1 48 minutes mark (start question at 46m56s)
You're one of the best troubleshooters that I have watched.
A very consise analysis James.
The world's #1 Generator Guy .
james your honesty is appreciated by those of us who know just enough to be dangerous i thank you and will now not pass up broken gen sets
I was in the advanced electronics field as a sonar technician in the Navy and joined the Army as a power generation technician 52D and reclassified into prime power generation MOS-52E. Retired and worked as a field service technician for Detroit Diesel in land based and marine generators as well as marine propulsion. There were times that during the flight to some generator at some wild place, I would be stressing. You don’t want to get there and look clueless around the site engineers. You do get to the point, after working on thousands of generators, that you pretty much have it “on lock”. There are always ‘little’ things that can just destroy your sanity. Great videos! I have thought about doing some jobs on all the tiny (3K-10k) generators that come through my area on RV’s. People have said that I could make a killing but, man it is nice not stressing the little shit 😀
I was always taught that the first tool of troubleshooting is visual inspection. I guess that hasn't changed much. Nice catch. Something like that can make you chase your tail forever.
I agree and ask as many question as possible from owners
Excellent video and good warning for others with the same machine. It is so easy for a small bad design or manufacturing issue to create big problems.
Dave.
It is a point that should be considered regardless of the brand or type of equipment.
Hi James. Another fantastic piece of troubleshooting. At the end of all of your videos you say “ I hope this helps someone”. Since I’ve been watching your videos, I have repaired three carburetors and diagnosed 1 burned up Generac GP7000e… Make no mistake, your videos help a lot of people!
Awww yisss it's 11pm and it's the holidays with some generator repair!
after you had that ohm value going up and down on the 240 volt outlet the first thing I thought was loose electrical conection on the 2 pole outlet ,you right on it ,good job!
You discovered several points in faulty manufacture. I hope that the makers have seen this and acted accordingly, if not then they need their knuckles wrapped. People pay good money for these products, plus it puts the name of Briggs and Stratton in the mire. I have come to respect them a lot. Again thanks for yet another informative and pleasant to watch video, jam packed with great ideas and innovation. Cracking stuff :)
Awesome detective work! Not only should the shrink tubing be cut back and the zip tie be added (what we’re they thinking with there?!) but they should use toothed lock washers on electrical connections for better surface contact. Someone should bring this video to the attention of Briggs, they really should issue a recall IMO.
Another fantastic video that shows you being methodical and knowledgeable resulting in a great diagnosis. Step by Step leaving nothing out. This obviously works best when you have all those hours of experience. Going back to check previous was outstanding. I can't tell you how impressed I am with how you approach your troubleshooting.
Mr. Condon, I have learned so much from your video's thanks for making them.
James, I'm a new subscriber. I wanted to let you know how very much enjoy every minute of your videos. After watching just one video, I knew I had to subscribe. The knowledge you share is invaluable and I think we all can learn from your methodical and rational troubleshooting. I have a basic knowledge of the principals of electricity but am seriously lacking in troubleshooting ability. I particularly enjoy your explanations of your troubleshooting strategy. That's a great help to me. Thanks so much.
Thanks Gary!
I had a problem before on a safety gate where the issue was intermittent and i found shrink tube like that covering the wire connector. It insulated the connection and caused problems.
I own a Briggs and Stratton that is almost 20 yrs old.
It was bought following a hurricane and has been used when needed.
Always makes power.
Run once a year for about an hour, with a load and oil changed when needed.
Great machine.
Had to repair the plastic gas tank a couple years ago, with a plastic welding kit from harbor freight.
If you surmise I am plugging a Briggs generator, you are right.
Great find, invaluable info! I own an older Generac 5500 Wheelhouse and a newer Ryobi 5500 generator. I'll be going through the carbs on each and will inspect the gen head leads for the shrink tubing issue. Also ordered a P3 Kill-O-Watt meter for tuning my machines. Thanks, James.
Great catch on the heat shrink over the neutral terminal. I agree with you about the circuit breaker wiring allowing excessive current. I checked the printed wiring diagram for our Predator generator and it is is configured the way you redid this one.
The 2-pole breaker is grossly over priced, as others have posted that is a few dollar part.
A color thermal imaging camera would be an expensive but nice addition to your diagnostic tool kit. Any exposed sketchy resistance locations will show right up giving off bright heat spots while under full load testing.
Look up the infiray P2 pro, only around 220 bucks (attaches to your phone), has twice the resolution and frame rate as the $400 name brand FLIR phone attachment. Mine has been a godsend
Want to bring you my honda 5000, what state are you in?
Coffee and generator repair. Lifes good :)
Amen 🙏 😊
Thank you for this very informative video. I successfully diagnosed my failed generator at the 22 min mark when I removed the brushes and found one destroyed. Very low hours but just out of warranty. HF is still going to get an earful
Good find! Your videos have turned into my entertainment while I’m at the hotel working out of town (I do scheduled pms on backup generators-mostly 3 phase 600v but the portables also)
James, I pulled my dad's Storm Responder apart after watching your video (it's a 6250 running, 8500 surge model 30728) and lo and behold! I actually had to trim up the shrink tubing on three wires (ground, neutral and one leg) going to the junction block. This particular one has the 4-wire block. What saved him was that he really hasn't run it long enough yet (less than 20 hours) for the problem to become apparent. We went the extra step to check and make certain that the shrink tubing wasn't too long on the other end (inside the control panel) but they were fine. I'm certain your video saved him from either down-time or a low-voltage disaster.
On another note, a Duromax XP10000EH I've got tore down ALSO HAD THE SHRINK-TUBING ISSUE on one leg! I think that Chinese quality control is the primary culprit, and I'll be watching for it from now on! My dad (a huge fan of yours BTW) and I both send our thanks.
The quality control issues are definitely not limited to Briggs these days. Glad you were able to sort that issue out now instead of when the generator is needed.
I have watched many of your videos to learn from you and your troubleshooting is amazing. I hope someday I can figure out my Powermate 5000 6250 intermitent no power issue but I am a rookie at troubleshooting electrical issues. I took it in to get repaired and it worked perfectly. I brought it home and it worked perfectly. I went to use it recently and once again it had no power. It only has a few hours of use and it has been stored inside its entire life. In so many ways it is brand new. Keep doing your videos!
After watching all your videos I think I should get some kind of completion certificate, acknowledging that I know very little about fixing generators!!
Great follow-up with those emails. Thanks!
Way back when I was an apprentice My journeyman told me to “make it shiny”. Meaning make sure that you could see just a tiny bit of copper at each connection. Now that is just a general rule of thumb, there are devices that will not show any copper at the connection. So you have to know how each connection is supposed to be made.
I was in the trade for 43 years and saw many examples of loose connections on neutral connections. The common term for bad neutrals is “ a floating neutral”.Neutrals can be very hard to trouble shoot! As the fault gets closer to the source of the power the more severe the effects are. One symptom I learned to look for was odd, generally low,voltage readings when using ground as the reference. Over time I made a habit of making voltage readings with neutral as my reference point. This was a great help in spotting bad neutrals. The bulb that blew at the beginning of the tests was actually a possible symptom of a bad neutral. I have seen cases of half the light bulbs in a home, my brother’s house in fact,blown by a floating neutral.
This was an interesting one, seems like there are quality control issues at the factory where these generators are made, great work fixing this one James!
Very interesting. I hope that the message gets to the manufacturer so that the issue can be fixed. I keep thinking about buying a generator but power does not go out very often here. We just had a blizzard and others nearby did lose power. Looks like I've delayed the purchase long enough and will check a few things before I put it into service. Thanks for all of the great videos!
My Kohler standby generator recently stopped working properly. The generator started and ran but the transfer switch would not switch. The generator brain box thought everything was fine. Upon investigation, I discovered one phase was low volts. Upon further investigation I discovered the breaker was bad (it is a 40 A square D breaker). The brain box in the generator was seeing the good voltage coming out of the stator. But the transfer switch was seeing the voltage after the bad breaker. The new breaker was 40 bucks. Now everything is working properly. But it was hard to change the breaker. Anyway, thanks for making all these videos.
As an electrical engineer that circuit breaker is a part that is designed to fail.! The vibrations of the motor are causing the contacts in the breaker to arc and at some point will eather weld the contacts that they don't work or burn open the contacts. High vibration circuits breakers need to be aircraft type circuit breaker that are designed to take high vibration.
Your troubles shooting skills are 2nd to none. Thank you for all of your hard work.
Great video I've been looking for this for months. My generator runs fine for about a half hour then starts to cut off power a couple of minutes at a time but comes back and picks up where it left off. I checked L1 and L2 and they're almost the same. I checked brushes and resistance on all the wires a o k there too. I changed the regulator and no change the only thing left was the breaker and I couldn't find how to test it. Now I know. Thank you. I run my whole house on it for half the peak hours and it saves me about a third of my bill . I run the ac refer freezer and four ceiling fans while my wife makes dinner .it's a 12K and cost me $700. Bucks. It should pay for itself and the new surcuit by next summer if I can get it fixed. Thanks again Jim
Your attention to detail is amazing.
Brilliant work James. Take all the readings and then surmise what could give those results. And look out for even the smallest possible issue.
Great video and diagnosis 👍.
I've worked on many different types of generators and most often it comes down to bad connections or faulty parts. Staters and windings normally don't go bad, though I've found bad workmanship on coatings.
BTW, those little "things" that fell out of the breaker are "arcing shims" to reduce wear to contact surfaces 😁👍
Good video. As a professional electrical contractor, retired I can say that a loose neutral can definitely cause the problems you described. Just a note about your setup with extension cords. Cords that are left coiled up, will creat an inductive kick. That kick acts as a voltage choke, the greater the load, the more voltage drop. In the older GFIC breakers the voltage drop creates a inbalace between the current flow and causes the GFIC breaker to trip. Also note that the use of digital meters can create various phantom issues as the digital meters are much more sensitive and do , give erroneous readings being old school I personal like an old Simpson 260. With its, analogue display because gives a slight load to what you are testing. However to each their own. Your use of the megger was great for testing break downs in insulation. I personally found that compressed air for blowing out dust and foreign matter in the windings . A vacuum worked much better when inspecting the windings on the stator. That damage could only be found with a megger. Good job. Your videos are not only educational, but entertaining when I cant sleep.
Some of the best trouble shooting I've ever saw. Great work.
Thanks
I'm noticing that contacts that are exposed to hours of vibration tend to get dirty and open up, fail or increase their resistance over the contacts. I have had that problem in places on my generator.. One place was the power saving switch that totally quit and needed replacing for just vibration failure.
LOVE THE VIDS. 37.2 is a new switch. It had to be contaminated.
Excellent video Jim: I will keep an eye out for this on the next gen set I get in. Many thanks.
25 year electrician. I'd also speculate that the neutral not getting a good connection could've caused a conductor overheat and melted the terminals on that cheap Chinese breaker causing them to loosen up. Also, Usually when we test outlets and see 55v, it almost always turns out to be an open neutral somewhere. It seems to me that the seats of those main terminals are not very good. I've had similar situations and my solution is to find 3 "perfectly sized" washers for each terminal. One under, one between, & one on top of each ring terminal in order to create that flat sandwiching effect on the rings provided you have enough threads but you usually do in most cases. Anyways, good vid! You are very good at what you do.
Again, this was another informative video; your presentation was right on. The adjustable multi-meter holder is great, and I will buy one. Every time I watch your videos, I buy new tools.
Glad it was helpful!
Brilliant. B&S should be seeing this and getting a service recall as well as sorting out their QC.
Or have they rebranded to Bad & Chinese?
Despite the Briggs name on it, it looks like a Honda clone.
More likely Bull & S#it.
Doc., this was a great diagnostic video. A lot of things to check to find the problem.
Thanks Larry
How briggs and stratton is in business is beyond me... used to be a company you could trust without a doubt
U.K. - Briggs and Stratton only made the engine not what went wrong. I don't like their engines but fair's fair. (Splash lubrication, no oil filter, no proper bearings, plastic gears - asking for trouble)
im getting a 8,500 or 11,000 watts kubota diesel generator
@@jp-um2fr briggs and stratton are putting their name on the whole thing not just the engine. Yes I know briggs doesn't specifically make the generator parts. Most likely that's done in China. However us consumers used to be able to trust ANY briggs product and just within the last 10 years they have gone downhill alot in terms of overall quality of ALL their products. Just cause they don't make it doesn't mean they don't control the level of quality.
@@michaelmactavish4445 diesel generators are just better overall if you don't need clean electricity. If you need clean power nothing beats these new inverter generators
@@Exploder206 yeah the kubotas has the 2 way hook ups on theres wich has run it to the house or can use cords plus nice kubota generator parts are from there tractors too wich makes it easy and holds 7.8 gallons of feul and can run 24 hours with out refeuling up wich its the best set up then any other generators
Thank you James for another great video. I only recently purchased a new generator for backup at my house. I also ordered a breakout cord and voltage and frequency monitor to check out everything. I am more confident after watching your videos that I can diagnose and maintain one only as a Novice. I have Gas for heat but having electricity for my wife and I makes since. I only purchased 4750/3800 but that should run lights along with refrigerator and freezer. I bought a duel fuel with propane so I will not run gasoline unless I have to as to not worrying about fuel contamination. We live in a small town and seldom have power failure. Thanks again.
#Danny Treadway - Does Propane fueal (or Natural Gas if tri is an option) cause higher valve/head temperatures or valve lubrication/wear problems, when compared to using gasoline? Usually the max rated engine/output power is also lower compared to gasoline.
Having worked for many years in factory maintenance, I observed numerous issues with various components on our generator manufacturing lines, and was tasked with developing and constructing much of the on-line and life test equipment. One of the early product failures was with the cheaper push to reset breakers. Engineering found that they were thermal breakers, and were false tripping when things warmed up. We switched to magnetic trip, and the problem went away. Easy identification: Magnetic trip have a whiteish case, and the thermal ones are black. Another problem found was the poor quality of the no-name wiring devices. This caused us to go to all Hubbell outlets. By the way, not all GFI outlets play well together, causing false tripping. Switching to Hubbell solved this problem also, although I am not certain why! Finally, when we bought outlets in large quantities price ceased to be a primary consideration. (A $14 part became a $3 part, when bought by the skid.) Unfortunately, Chinese parts killed the moderate priced market. Manufacturing and distribution costs often exceeded the selling price. You get what you pay for...sometimes.
I alter that saying a bit: "You don't get what you don't pay for." For what this breaker cost it should have been delivered on a silver platter pre-installed yet it was junk...
I'd love to hear more on your thoughts about Chinese parts killed the moderate market. Take a $15 carburetor on a Briggs lawnmower. I bought the $45 version since I'd heard stories, but have learned to ream out any small orifice with little wires and tiny drill bits. I bought a ultrasonic clearner, etc. IF Chinese parts have killed the moderate priced market, what is to be done? Fix old stuff? DDay, Maine
Great video James. This proved without a doubt that with the inferior components and crappy quality control lead to these failures. B&S is a brand that can not be trusted. Profits over quality is a formula for disaster.
Those pices that fell out of the breaker are Arc Shoots. They snub out the Arc when the contracts open under load.
With 2 new breakers you had a 50% failure rate. I'd bet that new 'good' one won't live long.
Thanks for the videos.
Good point Ray, I agree with you 100%.
Jim, Another great video as always. Always learn something new each one. May be small, may be large but I like learning.
Thanks, and keep them coming.
I just traded a Ryobi 6500 W generator for a 6250 W (realistically no difference in power output) Briggs & Stratton Storm responder 6250! I love the way the Briggs & Stratton is built. It has a phenomenal display with very useful information and it is a little bit quieter than the Ryobi. I trust that it will give me many years of service as it is only three years old. BTW, my main circuit breaker shuts off all the outlets.
Just discovered your channel, really enjoy your videos. Grew up on a golf course, and tinkered with a lot of "questionable " equipment...
At about the 40:03 minute mark it appears as if the eylets on the large circuit breaker you replaced also have the same heat shrink problem you pointed out on the neutral. (covering some of the eylet) Absolutely fantastic troubleshooting. Cheers! I have also seen similar erratic readings with capacitance build up between disimmaller metals used in contacts. Zinc washers were the fix in that case. While I don't see that relate to this case it can yield similar anomalies.
I watched 2 vids back to back and I was totally into this process! I don't have this kind of generator but it's nice to know how troubleshoot issues that may come up.
Back in the 1980,s worked on city ambulance,s . Found this heat shrink problem on installed add on,s all the time. Good find .
Excellent video!
There are two ways switches and circuit breakers get damaged like that.
Hit from the front or in your case
Over tighten when installing.
I suggest trying to support the legs when tighten screw with long nose pliers.
Most excellent troubleshooting & explanations, as usual!!
Very informative at the end As well lots of issues with these newer storm Responders
Excellent thinking to go back to the orig AVR. Very logical, Capt.
The moral of this video is never buy b/s generator, thank you Mr James for these videos, keep them coming.✌
Nice find about the shrinking tube that is on the ground. I am at @40:20 in the video. I did heard that you switched the 120 volts circuit behind the 30 amp breaker in the circuit. I think that is a bad decision that breaker will open at 7200 watt output total. The generator is an 8kw steady 12kw peak, in no way it will ever be able to provide more than 7.2kw anymore if you leave the wiring like this. Those breaker are not there to prevent overload of the generator but to prevent the electrical wiring connected to the generator from pulling too much current and be a fire hazard. if there should be some protection against overload of the generator it should be at the generator level as a slow fuse or a heat sensor of the wiring, Yes it is a bad idea to have the 30 amp breaker labeled as main power off/on. And that is more the problem in the case of this generator. But again like you found. That neutral cable was surely a big problem with the power stability
Thanks!
Thanks Jim!
@@jcondon1 You are very welcome!
James Condon, generator detective extraordinaire, I love it. Great find!!! and another excellent video lesson. Thank You
38 hours sounds like a the life expectancy of a modern Briggs & Stratton product.
That is some good diagnosing and catching the little things. Sometimes, not often, just sometimes, I thought your diagnosing was a bit tedious, but in cases like this it saves a lot of frustration and time.
Great information. I have a newer model storm responder but have not had time to check to see if the zip tie is present. I hope to check it this weekend. I will also check the shrink tube on the main wires. Great observation and great video as always.
My Elite 8000 did have the zip tie installed from the factory and my experience is only with this unit. It is wise to check yours and the other issue mine had in the powerhead.
Just recently came across your channel and subscribed. Enjoy your video quality and troubleshooting techniques! I live in a rural area where we experience frequent outages. We have two Honda inverter generators, one I just converted to propane. They take care of our meager needs, but I'm always trying to stay more educated. I was particularly interested in the THD and sine wave from this type generator. I never knew they were that "dirty".
Thanks, Rich
Extraordinary knowledge of subject is good, as are fine workmanship skills. But what really blows my mind in your patience and doggedness. I have to confess that I would just give up long before you get to the point where you've excluded things that should be excluded and figured out the answer to the mystery. A tip of my impatient hat!
GREAT job as usual. B&S is VERY proud of that circuit breaker which could be Chinese. Same thing for $73 at Amazon which is still a bit high. If the 120 outlets had been on the load side of the "gold plated" 240V circuit breaker, the problem would have also shown up on them too. Star washers make great electrical connections plus being a good lock washer.
The circuit breaker was made in Mexico!
@@jcondon1 Assembled maybe? It's more fun to blame the Chinese. Anyway, since the wiggly posts caused wiggly contacts, could the posts be place in fixed position with epoxy around the meeting points with the plastic to resist movement by vibration as a way to repair the CB? One good CB out of three is pathetic. And that's not to say repeated vibration combined with the stress of those short wires pulling at the posts won't cause a good CB to fail eventually. And thanks for all your videos. What a privilege to have a machine gone over with a fine tooth comb by you. Worth every penny you charge and/or get monetized. Hats off to you, sir. You are the embodiment of the spirit of American ingenuity.
@@jcondon1 They're the 'China of the New World' now. 🤢
Hi James. I hope you ad your family are happy and healthy in the coming year. Anyway, thanks for sharing!
Thanks, you too.
I just bought brand new champion 4500w inverter generator with remote control it was keep dying on me watching your videos help me it was breathing tube problem assembly recall tube goes into airfilter box was short end kinked please share with your subscribers they can call champion and get the right tube and if fuel tank sucks in they will send new tank too,nice videos keep up with good work thx…
Those plates are arc chutes to quench and contain the arc flash when opening under load.
Great job at trouble shooting the issue. Thanks for the video.
That amp probe for THD is Very Nice I could use that good video as always very detailed on this one @James Condon
Great video, Jim. Thanks for sharing.
I have the same generator with the same issues. You saved me a lot of hassle! Thanks
$80 for a Chinese POS breaker? If the generator were mine, I would install an aircraft breaker that is speced 9 ways to Christmas & would cost about half the Briggs breaker. BTW, those colored jumper you use are infamous for being intermittent. use them to test communications radios & instruments, but I test them each time I use the,. Another great troubleshooting video James, & done with your usual introspection & articulate explanation. Happy New Year !
The breaker was from Mexico. Wish they would just use standard circuit breakers.
Couple of observations:
1. If the circuit breaker were going ohmic, then I would expect to see evidence of overheating.
2. It's possible that the first replacement breaker is not defective. The contacts look like a base metal, which if true, could be forming a film due to corrosion and an ohmmeter doesn't have a high enough test voltage to punch through that layer. A better test is to measure the voltage across the contacts under load.
3. The 120V receptacles appear to have push-in contacts and I've seen these become intermittent.
4. I'm wondering if those shims that feel out of the breaker is how the interrupt current is set? AC breakers typically don't need arc quench at these voltages and they didn't appear to be magnetized.
You pay your money and take your chances. Very wrong on the excitation coil. Thanks James, your troubleshooting is great.
The generator is wired correctly because it’s capable of 66.6 amps total or 33.3 per leg. Also I had the same issue with my Briggs generator. Great videos
56:47 wow, those zip tie pliers are cool!👍
1.3.23 James, another great video. Question: What do you have to say about the Westinghouse 9500DF? Have you had any repairs on them? Thanks for taking the time to make these repair videos.
I am glad i watch your videos, i learn so much. keep up the good work.
13:40 'Red wire goes on the left'. I'm a bit confused. That's the way the wires were found.
Thanks for the video and all your videos. I always enjoy them. 👍
Just making sure people take note. Some do not realize it is polarity sensative
I admire and enjoy James methodical and almost text book approach to these repairs. As a commercial and industrial refrigeration service engineer I’m more than a little jealous of the un-pressured, clean and dry environment he portrays in your videos. For me I’ve had 33 years of fault finding and repairing at -20+, pouring rain on a roof or one hand on a ladder and often poor light conditions standing on pallets of frozen produce. If a customers freezer with £1,000,000 of stock has gone down and time is against you then you often have to cut corners to get the repair done and can seldom follow a calm text book approach but have to work with what you can, what the customer will accept and not always what would be preferred.
In the uk just about everything has been through Chinese manufacturing today which usually means manufacturing to a low price and speed rather than quality. It’s rare to get even commercial equipment lasting more than a year or two without failure, and old household names have signed with the devil for cheap production. I still have customers with 30-40 year old equipment made in the uk that still works, you have to ask yourself what’s better for the environment.
Great video as usual . Can you add an invertor to a generator so that it could be used with a heat pump. If so would really like to see a video addressing this issue
All the inverters I see run on DC. I am sure there must be something available. Inverter generator produce high voltage 3 phase dc, convert it to DC and feed it into the inverter. Would be cheaper most likely to buy an inverter generator. The only downside is cost and more to break.
You may be looking for a power conditioner.
I don't see why a digital heat pump would have any problems running on a non-inverter generator.
This was an excellent video. You are doing a great service to folks that have generator issues. Have a Happy New Year. I look forward to more videos from you.
As usual James attention to detail and tenacity finds the problem, I love these videos because I take guesses along the way and to be honest out of all your videos I think I’ve only been right once 😂 so I’ll take that as the broken clock saying!
Really informative... As the electrical side is certainly my weak spot, I will likely watch this one a few times and make some notes. Odd that the loose connections in the circuit breaker made it through QC where ever it was made. Even China when making stuff for the USA market seem to at least try and test a few. In this case, I very much doubt I would have known to even check that. Lessons still being learned.
Thanks for the detailed discussion...
Thanks James.
I noticed on the right in the Channel list at the end , You watch all the Same Channels I watch LOL
Mike M