Two Generators No Power Output - Same Model, Same Problem?
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- Опубліковано 25 тра 2022
- I recently brought home this ETQ generator that is no longer making power. A couple days later a subscriber dropped of his generator that also has no power output. Turns out they are the exact same model. Lets see why these generators stopped making power and get them producing electricity again.
Generator Model: ETQ TG32P31-01
I use Harbor Freight Super Heavy Duty Degreaser in my ultrasonic cleaner.
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Arching, Brushes, Dirty Slip Rings, ETQ, Fixed, Generator, How To, How-To, Insulation Failure, Load Test, Melted, No Output, No Power, Ohms, Ohms, Residual Magnetism, Resistance, Rotor Test, Scotch Brite, Slip Rings, Small Engine, Stator Test, Stopped Making Power, TG32P31, TG32P31-01, Troubleshooting, AVR, Automatic Voltage Regulator, Voltage Regulator,
Hi James, I would make two suggestions. One, attach your drill to the rotor shaft and turn it slowly that way, then use some 400 or 600 grit wet and dry paper on the slip rings. That way you'll get the grooves flattened out. Follow up with your scotchbrite.
As to why these failed it's the material used for the brush holder. It needs to be Bakelite or a similar material. The plastic they've used is too easily melted by heat. They will fail again.
Running 3000 watts from these is too high. Despite being listed as 3200 watts that would be for a very short duration. Somewhere it probably lists 2500 or even 2000 watts as the continuous power. Just my observations.
Thanks for the video.
That's nuts that they'd use thermoplastic instead of a thermoset plastic inside a generator head. I mean there's cost engineering but this is just ridiculous.
I'd just start the engine and clean the rings with a piece of emery cloth on the end of a stick.
A lathe provides a good result on pitted rings if the material is thick enough. It is routinely used on commutators that are pitted
I had the same thought, but then my next thought was "do I want to stick my fingers in there while it's spinning? Nope". And with how close the coil attachments are to the slip rings, I also wouldn't want to risk sticking a tool in there. So I think turning with a wrench is by far best option here.
@@MicraHakkinen you missed the phrase "turn it slowly" in my suggestion. Someone suggested starting it. Now that would be crazy.
I've watched hours and hours of your videos, and you've educated me not to be scared of pulling these apart. Bought two gennies both none runners and them working within half an hour, thanks to your tutorial. One I had to dial in the running speed to get the voltage where it was right.
Very nice
Isn't it librating whey you can work on stuff your self? Now with chanles like this one teaching everyone they are trying to make it so you can't work on your own stuff.
@@jcondon1those generators are exactly the same as I have that we had trouble getting started a few years ago
James, I'm curious if you have ever done a video on a vertical generator, like the colman power mate 2500?
@@jcondon1
And how exactly would someone go about fixing The Wire that goes to the slipring? Just asking for a friend. LOL.
Pretty crazy both generators had the exact same brush failure, probably just poor quality manufacturing, nice work James!
Its not crazy that they would fail the same way. Its an engineering flaw. Likely many of these would fail the same way. It would be more strange if they failed multiple different ways equally.
SPOILER!
not uncommon for poor designs to fail in the same manner.
has nothing to do with manufacturing or poor design, users just overloaded the gensets
Something else to check there. I've had that same fault occur with a certain brand (looking otherwise identical) where the ball bearing in the tail housing had started to spin. The bearing itself was still ok, but the outer race spinning had allowed a small clearance to develop, probably loosening when the case metal heated up in use. That clearance then allowed the rotor and slipring to chatter which caused the brushes to bounce and arc, and then overheat. Replacing just the brushes became a temporary fix before discovering this. Your slipring shows the same chatter marks. I found a loctite bearing retaining compound that cured the problem, I also pulled the bearing itself back slightly on the shaft, that allowed it to index on the original bore while the loctite filled the remainder. None have come back since adding this repair to the original brush replacement. An alternative would be to over bore and sleeve the housing, if I was doing my own (with no cost limit) I'd do it that way.
Cheers.
I had that happen to a pool pump motor, end plate bearing holder got enlarged due to the bearing worn out. bearing was not turning smoothly so was slipping around in the bore. I had a thin piece of SS sheet, cut a long rectangle and filled the end plate bearing hole circumference with that, fixed the motor with a new bearing, worked like new.
I wondered if it was a bearing thing,when he filmed the end of the rotor shaft it appeared to hunt about a bit indicating a possible loose or floating bearing being the cause of the failure,also indicating that the bearing may fail imminently if not corrected..
I wonder how well these can be done with a lathe on hand (slip rings and overbore+sleeving)
I was thinking people could try doing that trick with an oxyacetylene torch with a metal powder dispenser to 'build up' worn slip rings (I cant remember the name of that operation; its used to rebuild worn steel shaft sections), but i have a feeling the temperature range of such an operation is way to excessive for this sort of thing...
I had a thought when you were cleaning up the slip rings: When you have a bad rotor, you might cut up the slip rings and find out how thick they are. If they are relatively thick the next time this happens you can use something more aggressive (grades of emery cloth) to make sure the rings are really smooth. Another excellent video. Thanks!
It is so wonderful to see someone who knows what they are doing. It's a good feeling!
Watching your videos helped me on the weekend power went out had to clean carb on generator even though I ran it out of gas and drained the float bowl. Thanks
This fix works for me. But I know very little about generators so all I can say is great information for me. I think the customer will be very pleased even if the brushes have to be changed again. Thanks for the videos.
James, you are a master. I'll probably never stick my hands in a power head, but I thoroughly enjoyed watching you. I know I could if I had to. You're so knowledgeable and calm.
A thought about not having the light on. Once I thought I made a mistake, but then I realized I was wrong! Always a wonderful feeling when you realize you were really right!
Very educational.
As an aside, I had a royal pain on a Hyundai HY7000 that was a nightmare from day of purchase (in fact the genny was 4 years old when "new") that would not start after 2 years of having to replace all sorts of bits that simply failed, like the tank float, the fuel valve, both wheels at different times, the digital display module (which has failed again.. Turns out the internal coil cell has run flat.. The module is No Longer sold as a spare part), It has run less than 20 hours in the 6 years I have had it.
Turned out the latest starting issue was the magneto as it never ever started on the cord and was reluctant on the electric start. Now, for the first time ever, it starts on the cord.
Shout out to generator Guru in the UK for having the spares Hyundai after sales in the UK said were unobtainable.
Good job(s) Jim, I take it you have been assembling a database of parts used, ohms readings and failures encountered. At this point your knowledge base must be getting quite extensive. Keep up the good work and enjoy the holiday.
My neighbor has this exact machine. About 18 months ago we had a bad ice storm and power was out for 12 days. About day 5 he brought it to me with this exact problem. I buffed the slip rings heavily and works great
Did you have to replace the brushes???
@@JohnSmith-yv6eq yes.
Nice job as always. Never would expect any less from you. Thank you once again. Love and blessings!
You said it at the end, James. Either bad brushes or bad slip rings. Using substandard brushes is easily remedied. Substandard slip rings are a life-limiting flaw that will finish off a good rotor before its natural life comes to an end. We all bemoan poor quality components in our products do we not?
Thank you sir for all those clearly articulated videos. Have a great day.
I’ve been watching your videos since I became a subscriber and you are talented with these generators. It’s really something how resilient these are. I’ve seen some basket cases that you’ve done and you bring them back to life and in most cases better than factory. It’s great that you can sell these at a decent price to help people out. Grady job bud.
Thank you for sharing your talent. I’ve been a mechanic for over 40 years and I’m learning a lot watching your videos. Thank you
When you said you wanted to ‘scotchbright’ the slip rings - I thought you were going to drive the generator shaft with a socket in a battery drill - I love the meticulous diagnosis on your channel - good watch!
You can also put high temp graphite lube on the brush blocks where they slide in and out of the plastic holder so they mate up smoother with the slip rings.
Hi James! Thank you for your videos! For some reason, I am sitting and watching them all :) despite I got nothing to do with world of mechanics. I even fixed my Generac 5500 according to your instructions, believe me or not. Keep it up please !
James, the reason why those brushes failed so quickly is because of them being misaligned onto the slip rings. I'll send you a private message with a picture describing what I'm talking about but you may want to use an inspection camera to make sure the brushes are sitting directly on top of the rings. If only a portion of the carbon brush is on the slip ring it creates a bottleneck for the current to go through thus why it got hot.
It looked like the brushes are mounted inside of an encapsulated, molded plastic frame assembly that is mounted directly to the metal framing of the power unit. In what form or fashion are the brushes adjustable that they could possibly be misaligned and to such a proportion of contact with the slip rings that would cause a resistive bottleneck of the current causing an overheating issue? It's not an adjustable piece. It's a direct bolt on flat to the frame.
@@additudeobx you can put some spacer washers on the mounting bolt of the brushes to bring the brushes closer to the end bearing if they are too far towards the engine side.
In James' case he has the opposite problem where the brushes are too close to the end bearing and there is no way to adjust the brushes to be further towards the engine side. In this situation there's usually two causes for this. The first one is the end bell is not properly seated with the stator and needs to be corrected and tightened up. The second issue is a manufacturing defect where the slip ring assembly was mounted improperly to the rotor shaft housing. In this scenario there is no way to adjust it as this assembly is epoxy glued to the rotor.
@@additudeobx give me about 10 minutes I'm going to post a video to show you exactly what I'm talking about
@@additudeobx ua-cam.com/video/P4Wic_jt1KM/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/P4Wic_jt1KM/v-deo.html
Wow, what's the chances of 2 generators of the same make & model falling in your lap & both having the same problem... And a fairly easy fix too! I wonder if it would make sense to clean up the slip rings with a little emery cloth first & then polish them up with the scotchbrite pad obviously making sure to clean any grit off them when done. I've used this method on automotive starters without any problem. Nice job checking these out & quickly getting to the root of the problem!
these were such a mystery to me, one of the few electrical things I wouldn't work on, thanks for demystifying them for me
Very interesting video.
I've repaired several privately owned small engined generators and compressors that had failed due to neglect or misuse, but have not had to replace the brushes, luckily, as the suppliers of these (mostly Chinese made) machines in the UK do not always (if at all) carry spare parts.
At the power station where I worked, some of the small motor generators suffered from sudden commutator sparking and had to be taken off line within minutes to avoid a reactor trip (scram), but to avoid skimming the commutator in the workshop, a hand held abrasive stone (these were actually sold for the purpose of brush bedding) whilst running at full speed worked wonders.
Slipring brushes on the main 52MW turbo alternators were changed on load with care. The exciter commutator brushes were changed whilst shut down, although I did once do it on load- not for the faint-hearted and certainly not done routinely.
Another problem that can happen with these kinds of generators is they become degaussed and need to be flashed. These generators don't have permanent magnets, they depend on electromagnets to provide the static field that the rotor field moves through, to generate power. There's usually a small bit of magnetism in some iron that provides enough of a field for it to start generating a bit of power for the static field coils, which then provides a strong enough field for the generator.
What happens is sometimes that bit of magnetic iron gets degaussed (ie. all magnetism removed from it), so it is no longer magnetic, so the generator can't start generating power to generate a field which then makes the main power.
The way this usually happens is if you turn the motor off while the generator has a load attached, or if it runs out of fuel with a load attached. You should never start or stop a generator when it's under load, because of this.
The way to fix it is to "flash" the generator. You can do this by either using a car battery to put a short pulse of current through the coils WHILE the generator is running (connect and disconnect it really fast between the active and neutral of the generator output). Another potential way is to have a corded power drill plugged in while the generator is working (but not generating power), then quickly spin the drill - the idea is that spinning the drill will induce enough current in the generator's coil to provide a start field for the generator.
I found the car battery method to be the most reliable, but it is dangerous - you only want that to be connected for a very very short time.
There's a few youtube videos on "flashing" a generator which probably explains it better than this.
You can also flash them with 110vac, basically using a double male ends extension cord, but as you said, it’s dangerous and needs to be connected very briefly. They would come in all the time for repair after sitting forever, so after repair I’d have to flash them to get them genning.
Yeah never heard of flashing them like that before. At work, we apply the battery directly to the exciter coil or the brushes.
Better off taking off the stator, placing a neodymium magnet to remagnetize the in-rotor magnets, than putting current through the wires. Heck, even turning on a mag drill base on top of the rotor magnet (with a thin sheet of paper or some form of protective material) would be a safer alternative, albeit could be overkill.
I ain't risking popping the coils on these things, especially the newer trash power heads with COPPER-PLATED ALUMINIMUM WINDINGS. Those cursed things are a nightmare to repair, especially when it's rotor windings.
Thank you for an excellent explanation. I have the exact generator. It hasn't failed yet, but it is good to know where to look.
Amazing outcome James thanks for sharing 🦘👍
Hi James great class mate nice to see you had twins with the same problems and a easy fix Its great when it works out that simple Keep up the good work James
Thanks Dean
This is very helpful, at a garage sale or at the thrift-shop I will only look for brushless generators.
James you get the great deals at very good price and at low cost repair.
Enjoy looking for next post.
Michael.
...James....outstanding DIY tutorial......video and audio quality are first class....thanks for posting... :)
Another fascinating video where I learned something. Great job.
Thank you for the video I have been learning more every vidoe. You are a great narator and you are very meticulous person which it makes it easy to learn.
Beautiful , and the comments are also helpful .
Can we conclude that operating the generator in cold weather conditions will ease the overheating problem which caused the crap plastic to deform ? Also leaving the cover off will help to keep it cool maybe. Fixing the arcing problem somehow might be the solution like having capacitors shunting the brushes in the fashion of old school points capacitor for old school automotive ignition systems .
Good man yourself. I learnt a couple of things today. Much appreciated.
What are the odds of getting two identical generators with identical issues that are identically easy to repair?
Lol that’s awesome, great job!
Shoddy design. Probably many more of these out there needing repair.
A fun twofer for a Thursday morning. I think this is the first video of yours with melted bush holder. Something I'll have to keep in mind if mine ever fails. It may just been me but the second genie sounded like it was hunting.
Thanks for giving us something to watch, and a happy ending to boot.
A small narrow honing stone, to clean and smooth the brushes, i do this with the engine running,
After honing i use a piece of hardwood to burnish the slip rings, this removes any scratches and helps prevent arcing by creating a surface on the slip ring that is equal resistance any point overall surface, no arcing
Thanks for the video Jim 🙂
Hello James, your video is very interesting, acquiring two equal generators with the same problem, suggests that the quality of the constriction of the brushes and of some elements, may be of inferior quality... thanks for your videos and the teaching to analyze and solve these types of problems... thanks... a big greeting from Puerto Rico 🇵🇷...
James just another great video thanks looking forwards to the next one 👍
thank you James, very informative
at 10:35, I would've spun the rotor using a socket attached to a power drill to turn it, while using a 400-800 grit sand paper to shine the brass rings.
Thought of that, but did not want to get a finger caught. Would remove the stator before doing that.
@@jcondon1 Fingering parts is never a good idea :)
very much interesting, thank you.
Great vid's....very,very informative and helpful!👍
Good man. Pencil erasers, are a very fine soft abrasive. We used them, for over 30 years, cleaning memory sticks/chips on computers. And any other electronic/electrical , type of similar. The white, rectangular ones, work very well, also. As do sandpaper sticks, for larger metal objects.
Crazy well done James ! John from the UK
Easy fix and a cheap 8 dollar part. I love those. Wish all my repairs were that easy.
I've heard of the capacitor being faulty and not storing enough to excite the armature windings, the machines you fixed must have had defective brushes from the factory if they weren't able to clean those rings through use. Good diagnosis.
yea i have one of those, its the prior model to these in the video, mines a blue frame one. if it sits for a while 6 months or so, they refuse to make ac voltage. quick fix is to hook up a electric drill with the generator off, and spin it by hand a few times, after that the thing always powers right up
I Googled the brushes after you diagnosed the 1st one and found it interesting that they're so omnipresent on the internet,,,, must be a chronic issue over many makes and models...
Thank you, I was looking for a video like this, a how to clean up the brushes!
Great video. What a coincidence getting 2 exact same units. Made for some good footage.
Thanks for the update
You must live in a magical place to be able to find these gensets. I'm always looking and never seem to many.
It's all BS. If it sounds too good to be true,,,it is.
Congratulations on your "twins," Jim. Who knew that they would have the same problems. I passed up two generators at a local scrap yard. One was missing the carburetor, and the other one I didn't get a close look. The first was a rebadged champion unit. I suppose that they both could have been repaired given the fact that it seems that they were scrapped by an electrical contractor who was either closing down, or maybe just cleaning up the tool room. I got two ridgid 24" pipe wrenches, and they were fine, one forged steel and the other one aluminum, and the corded tools in their metal cases likely were fine too, though they appeared to be a bit older, like the Black and Decker reciprocating saw. It's a shame there is so much waste. I had my car this day and didn't want to mess up the seat, so I passed on the generators.
I also went to the scrap yard on tuesday and kicked myself for not going a day sooner. Someone offloaded a dumpster full of generators ranging from roughly 3kw-15+kw. The yard usually held on to stuff like that for a few days incase someone wanted to buy them, but crushed almost all of em because there were just too many and didn't have much room. I saw smaller cart style generators up to the big twin cylinder 20+ hp cummins/onan units. It was very hard to look at. Out of the pile, I found one upside-down coleman 240v 6kw with the 10hp briggs that looked half-way decent when I flipped it. Gave the yard $20, hauled it home and pressure washed all the years of crud off of it. Long story short after rebuilding the carb and fixing the on/off switch the thing makes power and runs great! Even had half a tank of gas which was worth the money itself lol.
Gotta say the truth, you are good. I wish I had you up around my neighborhood make some good money.
your videos are always SUPER ! thank you
That was interesting, you take the mystery out of these generator s. Thanks
Great, really enjoyed your video
Great video as always, I'm thinking white sapphire is on to something but it could have been a combination of factors
👍🏼✌🏼thanks for the video. Very informative
This is the time where a 2nd body would be nice. 1 to pull the pull starter and 1 to hold the scotchbright . Great video
If you follow the slip rings' existing surface with the sandpaper...
any existing hills or hollows in the slip ring surface just get followed but not eliminated.
You basically have to lathe them smooth with an adjustable brush-like holder that takes the hills off until they are down to the bottom of the dips.....????
Then the smoothed even surface can polished....
great job. you made it look easy.
I think it is the resistance between brush and slip ring that will give more potential divergence between the two.
So you get voltage between the two and amps over the two making wattage.
Wattage becomes heat and melts the brush holder.
Jim: I learn a lot from your clear explanations and I might even tackle a job like this if I came across the opportunity. I have the engine side down. It is the generator side that I am learning from your content. Thank you. Do your space heaters ever get used to heat spaces, or are they basically for the purposes of providing known load for testing generators?
Great tip James
I like using a model train track cleaner. They are called bright boys and they are a gritty eraser. They do the best polishing and deep grooved resurfacing.
I noticed that they only use one of the possible two bolts to hold the brush carrier - a few cents saving that could allow the brushes to mis-align and cause the heating and failure. But my bet would be poor initial quality of the slip-ring surface which adds to the one-bolt problem in causing brush heating. Drill and tap for that second fixing bolt!
Thanks for the video
Nice Job Jim! 👍😎
this is a welcome change from the usual carby cleaning video
WoW! Great JOB... AGAIN!!!
Thanks for the great video as usual James. I look at it as a quality control issues that made the components at the factory or they sat and accumulated the corrosion? At any rate thanks for the almost tear down. Ed
Held me in suspense in that second one. Dang light switch 🤣
I have Troy-Bilt 8000 watt, brush slip rings got dirty from sitting. For that one I started engine and used a fine sand paper held against the slip rings. Brush holder was not impeded with wires or other things in the way so was pretty safe to do that. Worked fine after simply cleaning. I think after sitting for a few years, the copper corroded on the slip rings.
Thank you, well done!
Awesome video and very well explain regarding how to tennical away a like that thank you for the great tutorial video we appreciate it
Wow ive never seen you load one up that close to maximum rated power. 👍
Thanks for the vid James.
really, really cool. excellent video. very helpful.
This is just like your "double trouble" video from way back. 😃😃👍👍 Glad that it was an easy fix. But come on Jim ....only 24 mins? 😂 Looking forward to next week. Thanks as always for excellent content.👍👍😃😃
I recall James fixing identical machines in the same video a couple of times in the past.
@@r8118830 If I remember right, they were a pair of Generacs GP 6500?
Yea those cheap imports, lucky that both work again, easy fix great video
Very nice video learned a lot keep up the good work.
Thanks
5.26.22 Another fine video James. I also looked at the video from Bassguitarist1985 on his pictures of the alignment. Good stuff. Thanks
good troubleshooting!
Great video James. Very useful. It will be interesting to see how long now these generators continue to function after the fixes you applied.
I looked at the video of the fix on the first generator and it seemed to me that the shaft was out of alignment. This may contribute to the brushes melting.
I may be wrong as it was only in the video for a short time and the nut shape did not help.
That caught me out on a couple of videos but in fact its not the shaft run out its just the head of the long bolt that tightens down into the hollow shaft of the rotor and the head of the bolt doesn`t centralise perfectly. Shaft still runs true as its held in the bearing.
Great and informative video!
On the slip rings, could use some fine sand paper or steel wool/ wipe with a little contact cleaner or lighter fluid.
Nice work James! How difficult is it to replace slip rings? Looks like a lot of work and an expensive deal! Thanks for sharing your expertise! 👍👍
Would have to change rotor, If you can find a better one
Thanks for a great vudeo again James , my thougts is that the brushes were not broken in properly and got overheated from start . Here is what im thinking and i dont know if i am wright , you should run the genny a tank on a quarter of load only to brake in the brushes and let it run 15-30 min after use to cool down. After that you can use it nomaly.
James, I've had a few problems with brushes swelling I suspect with damp? Of course they stick in the holders and rapidly fail. This is a bit different as they are on power tools of different kinds.
Another great fix.
thanks, another great video
Excellent troubleshooting. I like that. Did you order brushes online or did you have a pile of spare parts laying around. Thanks for sharing
Very useful video.
Thanks, it helped me! I know which not to buy!
Very useful. Thanks.
Well done!
I've "fixed" so many old generators by doing the drill trick. Just plug in your drill and hold the button then grab the chuck and twist real good. Literally every time someone seen me do it they were in just disbelief lol 😂 like yep I'm a sorcerer I have lightning in my fingers