I feel like I and a lot of other women connected with Hera way more than Alan did. She wants to be free and is initially unsure of herself as a leader in her father's shadow, but rises to the occasion when her people need her, and finds a way to balance it all in the end. I agreed with Jono's original 8/10 😉
I saw this with my brother-in-law and the two of us are massive Tolkien fans. Coming out of it, we both agreed that the movie was great on its own merits, but the LOTR aspects actually felt out of place. Like, if this movie were (like almost all modern fantasy) borrowing themes and tropes of the world without actually using its characters or settings, it would be truly incredible. One aspect neither of you mentioned I found amazing was the music... the score was gorgeous and The Rider was one I added to my playlist the second I got home. Overall, as a movie, I'd give it an 9/10 and as a LOTR movie, I'd give it a 4.5/10. Definitely happy I saw it and saw it in a theatre.
Loved this review. I mostly share Jono’s view while also understanding Alan’s. This movie actually grew on me more after I watched it because I couldn’t stop thinking about it. The story deeply touched me. Thank you for being one of the only positive-leaning YT reviews I’ve seen for it so far. Even if it wasn’t groundbreaking, I’m glad the focus wasn’t on the negatives for once.
Honestly, I loved the movie, and it makes me a little sad people are so critical of it. At the very least, I hope this doesn't dissuade people from LOTR animation because I'd love to see more of that. I definitely think there were some things that could have been done better: some of the seemingly 3D backgrounds could have blended better with the character art, they could have polished or given more detail to some of the story beats, and the animation could have been smoother. However, the story itself was kind of amazing. Some people are mad about the main character and her lack of growth or unimportance in the Tolkien canon, but I think you get more enjoyment out of it if you view her as more of a Ghibli-inspired character. A free-spirited girl that just wanted to do her own thing that gets dragged into conflict and hardship by egos and powers bigger than her. She accepts a leadership role not because she wants it, but because she needs to for the sake of her people. The growth is not from leadership abilities, which she already has, but from actually being willing to fill the role and accept that responsibility herself when needed. Who knows; maybe the movie actually would have been better with Helm as the main character, but I like this for what it is. Edit: I loved your review btw!
well, coming from someone who isn't purist, the movie dragged on unnecessarily. The main criticism for the unnamed daughter isn't so much about growth but the fact it was a girl boss who never once got anything wrong and anyone who didn't listen to her, had a tendency of dying. Do I care that Hera killed Wulf, not as much as I actually thought I would, they did build it up between the two so at that point, so having Fealaf be the one to take him out wouldn't have worked in the context of the movie. The problem with this movie comes to several factors, one, a lot of decisions with the characters didn't make sense, like Helm letting Wulf get all the way to Edoras and then Wulf not seizing or besieging the Hornburg on the way. Then you got Fealaf, who despite being right next to Edoras did nothing....instead of trying to find out what was going on, was planning to run away. They didn't explain that the reason Gondor couldn't help because it was also under attack at the same time, not because of Helm's pride. If they had followed the Lore, there wouldn't have been this confusion. There is in fact legitimate criticism for this film. They purpose changed significant parts of the Lore of the period, and then underhandly said that Rohan is so sexist(and basically attack Tolkien as well) that not only did they not include her into their songs but changed their history to undermine her. Also, the fact the narration of her being a free-spirited girl didn't work when most of the movie she actually listened to her father and then did all she could to save her country when he couldn't command anymore, but then the last act decided to leave her country even though it would take Rohan took decades to recover from that war...Not exactly a great role model. frankly if you have issue with people who have legitimate criticism for it....that's your problem, not theirs. I don't care if someone like this movie, it was better than I expected, but don't whine about people who actually have reasons to say its not great and of course the movie would have been better if they had followed the Lore, the parts they stayed true to were awesome.
Agreed, more LoTR animation please! And I love the idea of expanding on these side characters like Hera; Tolkien was very positive about the idea of communities expanding on existing stories, and I think he’d be disappointed to see people grumping about “sticking to source material” for his appendix tales that are not very fleshed out to begin with. That said, I do think the film had legitimate issues. Perhaps if it wasn’t in Peter Jackson’s Middle Earth it wouldn’t be as easy to compare to the OG trilogy that were rare 11/10 movies. But, internal character growth for the MC is really important to structuring a story, and I think the writing for Hera was weak in that respect. Think of the hit Pixar flicks of the 2000s: all of them have MCs that are different, better people by the end of the movie. That’s super compelling! Growth is inspiring and relatable. I would’ve loved this movie to bits if they had chosen to go more in that direction; as is, I think it’s fine but won’t be purchasing a copy. I also personally was disappointed that Wulf became this totally evil villain who ended up making nonsensical decisions because of his desire for revenge. Not that this was an awful choice, but I think it could have been BETTER if there was more nuance here. It kind of reinforces the myth that Tolkien had a simplistic view of morality and that the conflicts in his stories are black-and-white good vs evil.
Hera wanted to be her own person, free from the expectations of fathers and men. Despite being the key driving force that saves the Rohirrim people, she is lost in history to the brute strength of her father and the men at war. She was heroic, but did jot need to become some grand hero. In a way she is the opposite of her father’s/wolf’s pride.
How did I not know this channel existed! I’ve seen every cinematherapy episode. I must not have been paying attention when it was mentioned 😬😂 Love it.
My favorite aspect, outside of Helm Hammerhand's final stand, was how the movie ended: a show of mercy with relatively little violence. Budget-wise, they probably couldn't afford a bigger 3rd act battle (the animation was all over the place as is), but I find it fitting for a Tolkien story nonetheless. So many things could've been improved, but I find this to be its crowning achievement.
An important correction on Kenji Kamiyama: he worked on Akira as an animator, but it's very misleading to say he "brought us Akira." That man was Katsuhiro Otomo.
I was torn between a 7 and an 8 for this film when I saw it yesterday. If we consider how rushed it ended up being, I could curve it up to a 9. I'm inclined to stick with 8/10 if you're a Tolkien fan, maybe less if you're not really into his work like that. I loved that they included what little dialogue Tolkien actually wrote for the story of Helm Hammerhand (as well as narrative bits like "but his knees were unbent", which really brings the part where Freca threatens "Old kings that refuse a proffered staff may fall on their knees" full circle).
I feel like Alan and Jon knowing the politics behind how the movie was made, may have colored their perception and enjoyment of it. I wasn’t aware of it until you all mentioned it. I am leaning more towards Jono’s initial reaction out of the movie; as a girl dad I am glad he took influence from his daughter initially and enjoyed it with her. It was really sad to see that crumble in the face of Alan’s critique, which for the most part I feel is unwarranted. I think the animation style was fine; most anime have characters that don’t necessarily emote. As a fan of Studio Ghibli, I think it’s worth looking into the process of how anime is made. I didn’t find it dull and lifeless at all, and maybe it’s because I grew up watching anime from 30 years ago when I was a child. I don’t mind this style, and have enjoyed watching early Studio Ghibli movies whenever they’re re-released in theaters. Regarding Peter Jackson, I love that he continuously expands the role of female characters when he is involved in bringing to life LOTR stories to the screen. It is for me something that is also part of his filmmaking. Hera was not the first time that he expanded a woman’s role beyond a sentence or two from the books in movies, and it’s something that I enjoy seeing. Movies made now are able to modernize stories and fix flaws from books written decades ago, and it’s similar to what Denis Villeneuve is doing with the Dune series. The fact that Alan didn’t relate to Hera’s story at all says a lot, and was sad to see. My teen son and I loved it and we both related to her story a lot. As a woman I push back and say that women don’t have to be ambitious, and this movie shows a different way to be strong. How can we meet the circumstances that life hands us? There were so many different choices that could have been made, especially as a woman; I wish Alan could grow to see that. Helm as a father did a lot to enable Hera as a character; having a Shield Maiden as a caretaker and teaching Hera how to be strong of both mind and body after her mother died. I hope more people take lessons from that, and in how Helm realized too late that the daughter he raised was more than he thought her to be, and hopefully fathers watching don’t have to wait until right before their moment of death to acknowledge their daughters. Rooting for this movie to do well in theaters, and for more LOTR movies to be made. I think animation is a better medium to bring science fiction to life than real life, especially when trying to bring other aspects of JRR Tolkien books to the screen. Watching this review initially gave me trepidation before watching the movie with my son earlier today, but the movie proved to be great, and definitely deserved better than a 6/10 average from you two. This has been the only movie review I disagreed with so far, usually I agree with you two.
I mostly agreed with them but I also agree with you. I loved this movie, and I think your review of it is warranted as a review that should be more publicly seen and accepted, instead of all the negativity I see out there.
I really appreciate your perspective, and I agree that it was an excellent idea on the filmmakers part to center Hera’s story and leave her single at the end. Loved that. More stories like this are important! While I enjoyed the theater experience, I also only found this movie middle of the road. I so wanted to love Hera and found her… fine, I guess. I left the theater feeling empty and unsatisfied, and I’m a woman who was super excited by the premise! Maybe my disappointment is due to delving into writing theory and character writing recently. Maybe it’s just hard for me rn to passively enjoy less-than-perfect movies without analyzing the structure and writing. I just know that this one let me down a little; 6/10 would be my rating as well. I’m so glad you and your family liked it tho! I will say I love seeing a good old LoTR movie in theaters.
@@justzoeelena307 I agree with the point of the writing, and that I could have liked Hera more. I think many creators struggle writing adequate female characters and stories especially in a male-centric franchise like LOTR, in newer installments. I think it is just as powerful if not more compelling if a female character doesn’t have to do “big” things or “fight” in battles like the male characters to prove herself as an adequate character, just like how a woman should be valued as herself just for who she is regardless of whether she is masculine enough to pick up a sword or not. I think creators often forget that it is not about making women like men, but making them interesting in their own way.
I only knew this movie was coming out because one of my favourite artists, Paris Paloma, released a song that was in this movie! But now I really want to see it lol
I was so relieved to see a female character who is described as clever by other characters and actually does clever things. I do agree with Alan that Héra could have used more character depth and I think the place to do that would have been more focus on her friendship with Wulf. If they had really leaned into the friends to enemies arc, the ending would have slain us all emotionally. If I could mind map for a sec here...I'd have shown her as excited to see Wulf when she hears that Freca has arrived, maybe even have them briefly meet before the witan and she picks up on a new vibe from him that confuses her. He's being distant, not joking with her like she expects and has always been their dynamic. She's thrown. It's something she could quickly express to Olwyn (clearly her surrogate mother). It would give a little more groundwork for their private conversation afterwards where she realizes that it isn't just his crappy dad's ambition, Wulf genuinely wants to change their dynamic to a romantic one. (Hera gave me ace vibes, and that could easily be conveyed in Middle-earth appropriate ways. Also a man's refusal to accept a woman's rejection leading to destruction has precedent in this world- look up Maeglin, if you want to know more😬) Maybe Wulf reveals here some agreement with his crappy dad's ambition that Héra had always thought him against. The first crack in their friendship. I would add a sweet father-daughter scene after Wulf's banishment where Helm and Héra actually talk about these marriage offers. This could establish that Helm has been well aware that Héra does not want to marry, and since she's the youngest and a girl and it isn't as vital for her to marry as it is for Haleth (who needs to continue the line) he's been willing to put that off for the sake of her happiness. This would also be a great place to bring up the existing alliance between Rohan and Gondor; Helm could argue that with Wulf swearing revenge they need strong ties to Gondor more than ever- unlike Fréca, Wulf is a capable warrior and his people love him more than they did his father, establishing him as a genuine threat. Héra could respond "Is the oath of Eorl not enough? Does Gondor need my body also to call us friend?" This is the first place to seed in a theme of duty vs freedom with Héra. I think that would set her up for development, since she would have to step into greater and greater duty to Rohan over the course of the film. And as she rides into her final duel, she should definitely have said "I am the bride of Rohan". I really thought she was going to evoke Elizabeth I there and it threw me when she didn't. Anyway, that's my ramble of how I'd give Héra an arc. Forth Eorlingas!🐎 (And another thing ...I felt a distinct lack of Rohirrim/Anglo Saxon pageantry. They could have opened the witan with proper ceremony: in the absence of a queen, Héra is the lady of Meduseld and would be the one to greet honored guests with the ceremonial cup--"Westu hal, Wulf son of Fréca" with a friendly smile he doesn't quite return).
I kind of feel like this movie was basically the Tolkien Foundation's apology about how Eowyn's story ended. I didn't know Hera was an actual character mentioned in the book appendices and her path was set, so when I watched the movie I was rather bummed that she didn't become the king, although I also realize her character was fated to be free instead of on a throne. But the whole movie was about Hera gaining the freedom and confidence to make her choices little my little.
I like anime, but the animation style did not work for me in this context. It felt wrong to mash those two. Also, the main character's clothes looked like a flesh suit half the time and way too different from everybody else's clothes. Plus I despised that she was the only red haired (pink haired) character. And the bad guy had sharp teeth and the worst villain story ever.
Other than the fact that the narrator told me Hera was "wild and free and headstrong" i did not see any personality traits in her. What made her headstrong, exactly?! She is extremely one dimensional. Other than helm no one had a character arc. She had no flaws to overcome.
The action sequences may not have measured up to the Peter Jackson level of epic, but you definitely FELT the weight of Helm Hammerhands fists. I genuinely enjoyed this movie and it almost felt like a Ghibli in way, at least with more of that style of story telling.
I really enjoyed this film when I first watched it. The voice acting was really good. The animation for the most part was well done. There were some spots where it looked rushed or just looked off but again good for the most part. But after replaying it in my head I realized that there were a few plot holes. The first was the archers of the rohirrim. When wulf approached helms deep , it looked like he was within range of the archers. So when he killed the prince in front of everyone, why didn't the archers just shoot him? If he was out of range then fine. The second was that they established that the enemy encampment was out of range of the archers. However, the enemy encampment could shoot their messenger birds. If they were on a equal technological level, that means that the enemy archers would have to be in range of the other archers in order to shoot down the birds. The only other option would be that the enemy archers bows had a longer range which means they could have laid down suppressing fire allowing the ground forces to advance on the keep. No need for that siege bridge. Then was helms death. They did a good job of depicting it as it was in the book however, they clearly show that four able-bodied men couldn't open the door cuz it was Frozen shut. However, helm and Hera were able to pry it open just enough for Hera to get through, with helm then being able too close it by himself. So in reality a couple more people would have been able to open it. The second was that the older shield maiden had a looking glass and could see the duo running through the camp meaning that the Snow wasn't obscuring visibility, meaning that the guards on top of the gate could have helped King Helm. What they should have done was have the snow be so bad that there was no good visibility for anyone and the only way for Hera to escape was to lower a rope down from the top of the gate leaving helm to stay on the ground for Hera to escape. Lastly, was the conclusion to wulf and Hera's fight. They clearly showed that wolf was stronger than Hera so she had to be quicker and smart but when wolf went for the sneak attack, All the sudden she can match him and was even able to pin him down. That sequence would have worked if wolf would have pushed her off, Go for his sword, but before he wouldn't be able to deliver The killing blow, Hera would grab her own sword and stab him in the gut. I would like to know that I didn't have a problem with Hers's character. It was just that one scene And then when Hera's left, it would have made more sense that she couldn't stay due to the fact that the death of her brothers and father was still too fresh in her mind instead of her wanting to go on an adventure. Again, I really wanted to like this movie but I just couldn't overlook those plot holes. So for me, 6 out of 10,
Thanks for another review, gentlemen! Would you ever consider making a top 5-10 movies of the year for each of you? I don’t think it would be necessary to have it be a super in depth discussion-just a fun look back.
I gave this movie a solid B-. The characters were absolutely gorgeous, but I had issues with the writing and the fact that some of the animation was choppy (especially when contrasting it to the amount of very fluid animation we've been having recently). For the writing, the characters didn't feel really fleshed out with justified actions until later in the movie. I remember wishing there was better set-up for the conflict so that I could feel the emotional impact more drastically. For example, the relationship between Hera and Wulf being just the 1 sentence "we used to be inseparable as kids" and the scene where they were mock-fighting did not make me think they had a really meaningful relationship. It really felt like a man just let his pride inflate his sense of self to the point of destruction. Because the story is written in Hera's perspective, I grew to really enjoy her as a character and watching her struggle and make decisions that showcased her care for the people. I really wished there was a bit more on Wulf's side that showed a little of how he descended into this rage for revenge - small, repeated moments of being denied/rejected, his father telling him something about what he and his people are owed, etc. Just something to make him more well-rounded. In terms of animation, I feel like the budget went all out for the non-humans L O L Watch those eagles fly, see those horses gallop, so smooth. And then the frame rates on the people were sometimes 😬 And a decent amount of the 3D environments weren't made to blend well with the 2D characters on top, so I kept being taken out of the immersion of the film. I don't know the politics that happened for the development of this film, so I'm sure that was a major contributing factor. I honestly wasn't planning on watching it, but it happened to release on a day off so I said "yolo, lemme take myself out on a date." I told my friend group immediately, I don't think it's a necessary theater watch. I found the ending to be satisfying and was super happy to see we got some of the OG hobbit actors in the mix. I would absolutely buy an art book of this and read paragraphs of lore, but not necessarily race to watch it again.
I actually saw this movie over a month ago at a special screening near where I live, for free, and as soon as the end credits started to roll, I wanted to see the movie again and actually pay to see it! The animation is beautiful, the voice casting is spot on, and the story is epic. Brian Cox as Helm Hamerhand is perfection! There were some minor flaws, like they could have done a slightly better job at setting up the conflict. Maybe a little more background on the history between the men of Dunland and Rohan. But otherwise, it was amazing. And it's less than 3 hours long lol. I've glanced at some reviews, and they make the comparison between this film and the LOTR Trilogy, which only sets it up for failure. LOTR is the gold standard for filmmaking. It's simply not fair to use that as a standard for measuring the War of the Rohirrim. I'm a huge fan of animation, so that was the standard I used. If nothing else, it's far better than the Hobbit Trilogy overall.
Definitely, not fair to compare it to the original trilogy. The Hobbit movies would be a better comparison since both of them tried to chase the "gold standard" , but I think the Hobbit budget is still many times more than this movie.
I usually agree with what both of you say in general, but I don't with this review. I saw this movie last night and it was brilliant. And I hope a lot of people, especially women, go see it. 9/10 for me, and I rarely rate anything over 5 these days. Spoiler Free Version: There were some issues with the story in that many of the male main characters were predictable. But, like John said, it was realistic to how people would react in real life. This movie truly is a study in ego. Visually the movie is stunning, and there are so many epic moments. Soooo many technically difficult drawing shots! Any Lord of the Rings fan and/or anime fan will have a great time. Spoiler Version: They let the female main character stay single. I don't think John and Alan quite grasp the importance of having a storyline where women come together to win the day while still maintaining their independence at the end. I was bawling at the end when I realized Hera was allowed to walk away without a marriage or pregnancy. I knew from the moment the movie started what Hera wanted, and her motivation: she wanted to keep her independence while still maintaining the success of her community and people. But I am also a single woman with similar motivations and goals in life, and know it is a rare lifestyle choice not many understand. The success of this movie is so important for making more stories where women get to be independent at the end. We need more stories where women aren't cast as the mother or wife, and where women come together to support each other and win.
Lord of the rings is a book I read every year, and the movies were pretty much my entire personality in middle school. I would say the movie wasn't great as an entry into the middle earth world building but I also couldn't stop smiling and laughing throughout the entire movie. It's in the same vein as evil dead for me
OKAY just got back from viewing and a note about the animation - there are MANY beautiful nods to the original animated movies. From the eyes of Wulf being just like Gollum's (same color, same zoom-ins, same little dashy designs), a lot of similar movements (especially evident in Wulf's father) and some of the character designs from Leif to the orcs. It actually gave me more nostalgia for the cartoons than for the movie trilogy.
7:07 I don't know why, but this comment made me think of Dredd being a "day in the life of" film. Not that I think it's, "Pride spiraling out of control and Rohirram fighting needlessly? Guess it must be a Thursday in Middle Earth...." But just a random but notable story in a series of stories kind of Thursday.
Eh. I thought this movie was supposed to be about Helm but Hera took all of his spotlight. Which would be okay if she was an interesting character, but if she's got an arc I don't see it. She's pretty much the same at the end as she is at the start, and gave me a few too many Rings of Power vibes. That's kinda the same with everyone to be fair, but it's a shame. This movie had a lot of potential. Guess lighting only strikes the Lord of the Rings adaptation rod once.
@TheWhills I would disagree. Just the opposite actually. Frodo started as a carefree lad, who wished he could go on adventures with Bilbo and longed to see the world, that stepped up to take responsibility and bear a burden he shouldn't have had to carry. As he continues on his journey, he continously finds deeper and deeper strength, even in the moments when he almost gives into despair. By the end, he is a world weary man, enlightened in his understanding that things with never go back to the way they were, not for him. Sam does not have a character arc. It is precisely because of that that Frodo makes it through, because Sam never loses hope, his somewhat simple view, his hobbitish view, is what keeps Frodo grounded, reminding him that throughout the chaos pounding away at Frodo's remarkable and previously unknown resolve, what they are fighting for. And at the end, it's because he never changed that Sam is able to return, where Frodo is not. Sam is a great character, but he would not work as the primary protagonist. So it is here.
@Nargon46 wow, I think we may have watched two different movies. I guess i should clarify. To my eyes, Frodo does have an arc, its just the weaker one. He faultered the entire way and only made it because of Sam's newfound courage. The thing that stayed the same was his undying loyalty to Frodo. Like I said, Frodo fails throughout the story and Sam is his Deus Ex, but Sam doesnt start that way. Frodo goes through doubt, but its Sam that keeps him going. Frodo trusts Smeagol, gets caught by Shelob, etc. Sam is the true hero of the story. Love to hear more of your take
@TheWhills I agree with all of that, but I don't see how Sam *changes* . He always had that courage, he never wavered out of fear, he snuck into the Council of Elrond and was the first of the Hobbits to volunteer to go with Frodo, and thats after he listened in on Frodo and Gandalf because he was protective of Frodo. From the very beginning when Gandalf charged him with being Frodo's companion, he embraced that with a furver that was unmatched by any of the others. He stays that way through the whole story, and by the end, he is still that way. Old faithful Sam. Sam may be the "real hero" in the sense that he is integral to the destruction of the Ring, but he still isn't the main character, that's Frodo. Plus, each of them have an essential function in that regard at different points. And Frodo goes through immense changes throughout the story, as I said before starting out as a nieve, lighthearted boy and ending as a wiser, but damaged man. Sam is still the same old faithful Sam he was at the start.
@Nargon46 the scene where he stops dead at the farthest he's ever been from the Shire? He's deathly afraid. I see what youre saying, but i think we may be reading it differently. Anyway, to my original point, I dont think Hera needed massive change for the story to be good. Or even great. I loved it.
No we do not. This is garbage and is in the process of ruining it for the rest of us who actually like good stories, characters, animation and genre in general 😢
I loved this review! I think even as a woman who was thrilled leading up to this to see a story centered on a Rohan shieldmaiden, I align more with Alan on this one. I felt like a little too often Hera was too perfect, and I was hoping to see her struggle more internally (maybe with grief or despair, or overcome her own pride/hubris in a way her father and brothers couldn’t; was disappointed to not get much character growth from her in that way) and would’ve liked to see a little more nuance in Wulf’s villainy. Those are my main critiques though - I certainly got excited during a few cool scenes, loved the sound and character design, and overall had a good time. 5.5/10.
I felt like what Hera wanted was to matter to her father and her people and not be erased and sent off to get married to someone from another kingdom. I feel like she was written to directly counter the lack of mention in the story in the book. She was nameless and only mentioned as the daughter Wulf wanted to marry. It feels like this movie was trying to tell the story of all the women whose existence wasn't valued and story wasn't written because the history was written by men. I loved it.
Kind of hilarious that the comment section (well and reactions from other places) can't agree on whether they hated it because Hera is a "girlboss" or they were relieved because Hera wasn't a "girlboss". Goes to show how little that word means and how the usage of that word speaks more about the person using it than the movie. I wouldn't call the movie good by any stretch, but I loved it anyway. As an enjoyer of both anime and Lords of the Rings, I think the two came together pretty well. The character designs with the form-fitting outfits does bother me a bit but they usually aren't very noticeable when actually watching. Definitely going for rewatches. Favorite character was Olwyn. She's an absolute chad.
I haven't seen the movie yet, but I've been working hard to try to write my own novel and have done a lot to learn how to write properly. One point that often is said for writing in general is that your story won't be interesting and engaging if your main characters do not have INTERNAL CONFLICT. What do they want? What are their fears holding them back from it? External conflict is the stuff that happens to them and whisks a character along and you can't have a story with just external conflict. It sounds like Hera is given only external conflict and no internal conflict, which is a mistake writing-wise. I'll be interested to see it eventually, but I've never had my hope high for it.
Seems a lot more promising than the Hobbit trilogy. To be fair, the Hobbit is one of my favorite books and after seeing the first one, I couldn't watch the other two but I've heard they go even more off the rails. If it comes to Netflix I'll definitely give it a chance.
I wouldn't say they go "off the rails" for the most part. The same spirit is there. However, there is an awful lot of padding and added content in an attempt to make it the same scale as LOTR. I still found The Hobbit entertaining as films, but they would have worked better as a duology.
There are some solid fan-edits to slim the bloated Hobbit Trilogy into a one or two movies. The last one of the trilogy, the Battle of the Five Armies, is a CGI bloated monstrosity. But PJ himself said that he didn't have time to really plan it and work on the script, and was just throwing stuff at the wall to see what stuck, in order to have a third movie in theaters in time.
@@anarionelendili8961 I guess I could check some of them out. For me, the struggle would be to find a natural end between a first and second film. A good possible cliffhanger (if there wasn't a gap year between films) might be the initial meeting between the 13 and Bard.
@@kivimik There is a about 4:20h runtime "The Hobbit M4 book edit", which has an intermission where the first movie ended, around 1:50h in. I thought that worked pretty well.
It's no master piece like Peter Jackson's trilogy, but I really liked it. I have a few thoughts about how it could have been better, but nothing that brings it down too much. I know a lot of people wish Helm was the main character, but I think it's better to have someone else in this case. I think that with a crazy overpowered character like Helm it is more impactful to view their actions from someone else's point of view. And Helm still does all the crazy stuff he did in lore.
I'm unexpected staying home for Christmas, as opposed to flying to my family, so I'll definitely be watching this during the holidays! I don't expect it to have anywhere near the impact the trilogy had when seeing that in the cinema but I LOVE LotR so even though anime isn't my thing, I'm sure I'll enjoy it. As long as the plot makes a wee bit more sense than ROP plot did(although I've only seen half of season 1 - the dramatic charge to a village nobody from Numenor knew off was too much nonsense for me).
Agree 100% with the criticisms raised, but in the case of this movie I've just found that those things weren't deal breakers for me. Even when I noticed little issues or had complaints while watching, it never ruined the experience and I atill thoroughly enjoyed the movie.
This is the most balanced review I've heard, thanks, as it resonates with my mixed option of the film, the art was stunning and the voice acting, the anime style was unique but niche... But the story writing, and ending, for me a bit unsatisfying, but probably without Jackson would be worse.
John, I love your Superman and Wonder Woman posters. I also love the TMNT arcade game in the background. I am also looking forward to this movie. I’m easily entertained so I’m expecting to at least enjoy it and be more in John’s side of it. Considering I enjoyed the Rings of power series.
I've been on the fence about whether to see this on theaters or catch it once it's streaming somewhere, but I will say: It looks gorgeous. Whatever the quality of the story I know it's gonna look and sound phenomenal
Thanks for the review! I enjoyed this movie, but didn't love it. I'm a pretty big Tolkien (but not necessarily PJ) fan who doesn't watch a lot of animated content. I loved the landscape art, but thought the animation of the people seemed saturated and a little choppy, particularly in the beginning. Some of the visuals were stunning, though, particulrly of Helm, and that map transition in the beginning. I didn't like the frequency of PJ movie callbacks, and the ending definitely didn't work for me. The story was, fine, and I thought Hera was a sufficiently compelling character. I would have liked more of her relationship with her brothers. What I really felt missing was 1) more of Freáláf's story and 2) background and political context on the Dunlendings. I was disappointed in the lack of nuance in the depiction of them. But, despite these criticisms, I agree that it makes a fun Thursday movie. I'm not sure it's asking the audience to think much more deeply than that.
I feel like Hera is like Brad Pitt's character, Tristan, in Legends Of the Fall. She is a wild child that does not like to live the life established for her. She loves her family, but not happy with the restrictions - whether her father's protection or marriage idea. I do want to know the budget for this movie. The movie is better than a TV anime, but compare to movies like Suzume or Weathering With You, the animation is sub par.
I just saw it. It was good and I like that they had the music in it and that it was produced by Perter Jackson...but I have to say I don't think it needed to be long as it was though.
I thought it was really cool (even though not explicitly said) that Hera didn't want to marry - she was a really great representative of the aroace community and it's been a long time since I as an ace person have been able to connect with a character that way
In regards to the animation, especially comparing it to Akira. Akira was made in the 80's, before Japan's economy crash, so there was more money available to throw at a studio project.
I think a lot of people are underrating this movie for reasons that aren't its fault, Alan included. Of course the characters are mostly two-dimensional, they're sketches from a short story Tolkien shoved into the Appendices. Inventing deep personalities and internal conflicts for all of them would have move the film away from the source material, which people would have complained about as well. The movie can't win on that front, so it's not fair to criticise. The fan-service stuff added some variety and interest. And yeah, the main protagonist isn't a complex, tortured hero. She's a capable person who rises to a particular situation. That's what leadership looks like 99% of the time, why should personal goals have to come into it for her arc to be 'good'? Because storytelling convention dictates so? Sure, it wasn't perfect. The animation was flawed, particularly in the way the characters moved. But can we step back and think about how cool it is that someone approached Lord of the Rings with a totally different style? I love that there's room to present new stories from Middle Earth in ways that differentiate them visually. More importantly, this movie embodied the themes and 'heart' of Tolkien while also staying humble. It told a strong, contained story that wasn't setting up anything bigger, ensuring it would be enjoyable and not an overstuffed mess like many blockbusters now are. That should be applauded, not met with 'meh'. Yes, the term Mary Sue has become gross because its mostly used by men trying to undermine strong female characters. But Mary Sues do exist in media, when female characters have power just because. There are ten Gary Stus for every one Mary Sue, but I digress. The women in this movie weren't Mary Sues. They were strong because of who they were, and they used their strength for good reasons that supported the story, not just to provide a pointed spectacle. In many ways, this film is an antidote to a Hollywood dominated by tacky, shallow blockbusters. It really deserves 9/10 rather than 6.
Color me intrigued. I have my final project in my psychology of horror films class on Tuesday, and I was looking at going to the movies to celebrate finishing. I've always struggled with connecting to lord of the rings because I have a hard time understanding what's going on, but if I can just sit back and look at all the pretty colors and animation, I might just give it a shot
Haven't seen the movie. But I saw the trailer in theaters when I was sitting down for Transformers One (great movie btw). I thought the trailer was cool, but now it just makes me want a Fire Emblem movie lol
I think my least favorite thing was Héra’s character design. There’s no reason she had to have this vivid unnaturally red hair and dress so differently from every other character of her culture. Even if she wasn’t blonde I would have preferred her to at least have a natural red hair color. Her appearance took me out of the story every time it cut to a shot of her. I have other gripes, but overall I had fun watching it and it’s good for what it is. I also give it a 6/10.
One thing I found quite disappointing is the lack of impactful lines that weren't (or at least felt like) recycled from LOTR for fan service. I could hear Theoden and others, but not this movie's characters
I saw it today and while I did enjoy it, there are a few elements that annoyed me. Like this scene at 5:35. Or how the scene where Helm blows his horn before the battle and the scene just sits on him too long. Then there was the shieldmaiden angle. I get that it's a reference to Nordic tales and the reality of medieval women taking up arms to defend themselves during times of war, but the film never really explains how they garnered the respect that the characters seem to treat them with. Women defending themselves earned them a place in a meeting of the lords of Rohan at one time?
Imagining some animators in Japan cramming so they can pump out a movie then some really good voice actors in America making great voice performances helps explain the thing about the emotion not being shown on the faces of the characters. 🤣 The voice actors were working on something that was being made an entire continent away from them. 😂
I had the same problem. Couldn't connect with the characters. Couldn't sense their emotions. Maybe anime is just not my style. Plus there were too many similarities to the LotR trilogy. Why did we need another sister-son unnecessarily banned from Edoras only to make a last minute appearance to save the day? And just in the same way? Couldn't they have new and original ideas? But it was quite nice "popcorn-cinema". And it didn't sincerely violate Tolkiens world. Would rate it at 6.5/10.
Can you guys explain the political stuff you mentioned? In one comment you said something about not wanting to lose the rights, but what does that have to do with the movie being made, or the speed at which it was made. Sorry if this is explained elsewhere. I’m a huge Tolkien guy, so am excited to see the film.
From my little grasp on it, if you own any IP you have to publish something if be a book, a TV show, a comic etc... or it'll slowly be trusted into public domain and anyone can use those characters, world, terms. In this case they decided to make an animated film on the Lord Of the Rings to keep the IP relevant.
The contract that New Line (a Warner bros subsidiary) has with the original film-rights holders of the LotR books (it’s very complicated) requires them to release a film every set number of years, or the film rights revert back to the original entity (the Zaentz company, I think. Again, super-complicated) Warners didn’t want to lose the rights, so they rushed this movie out in like… 18 months? So that they can keep the rights for another however many years. So, this could be a lot worse than it is. But I’m annoyed, because I want every movie, especially lotr movie, to be GREAT. And this was (imo) fine. Just… fine. -alan
@@CinemaTherapyReviews thank you Alan. I didn’t know any of that and I do try to keep up with anything Tolkien. As I am not a “Peter Jackson is the best” fan, I wonder if it might have been better for it to lapse. Anyway, thank you for the info and for the review. Heard it hadn’t done well initially but do still want to see it in theater.
I went in braced for the worst, and thus came out somewhat relieved, but if I'd gone in with super high expectations I'd have been rather disappointed. The trailers made no secret that Hera was going to be a show-stealing girl-boss, so that wasn't a surprise, but while I got pretty annoyed with all the unearned praise everyone threw at her at every chance they got, I was at least relieved that she wasn't particularly obnoxious or unlikeable compared to most modern girl-bosses, just kinda bland, and I was most relieved that she didn't immasculate any of the male characters, though I do wish they got more of the spotlight. Really, what annoyed me more than Hera was all the blatantly shoehorned and nonsensical easter eggs, from the orcs looking for rings and subsequent name drop of Gandalf, none of which makes sense or serves any purpose in the story, to the watcher in the water, which makes absolutely no sense considering what we know of it in The Lord of the Rings. Overall, it was similar in quality to the first Hobbit film, in my opinion. It had a lot of good and was overall enjoyable, but was held back by some really annoying decisions.
I overall liked the movie, but I felt it was too long. As is I give it a 6.5, but honestly if they just cut everything from Hera and crew finding the southron to her making it back to edoras I would give it an 8. The middle-earth kaiju fight was the low point for me.
i think some of the epic comparisons don't measure up. but i really enjoyed the characterization we got for helm hammerhand. i will say, when i first started watching, i was nervous about the female protagonist just because there are so many female lead films out there where the character is written and characterized as invincible and that all of her supporting cast is an afterthought where the female MC would be insufferable. But I actually enjoyed her characterization as i found her to be similar to eowyn. i will say, i wonder if this would have had better success as a 1 or 2 season tv show. My raiting would be a 7/10. :) I was definitely sad to see Hama and Haleth's deaths though. I kinda wish they didnt have to die but I actually havent read the books so I'm assuming their deaths are recorded and mentioned somewhere in the books. I will say when i first saw the trailers for it, I was thinking "oh this is cool, an animated TV show set in the LOTR universe". and then I found out it was animated movie and I was like well, I'll still watch it but i'm a little sad that its not a tv show. haha. I did find it really awkward though with their fan service of giving us Saruman and Gandalf.
I’m just excited that after *mumbles* years, I get to spend my birthday watching another LoTR movie in the cinema. Like, you could say the movie is atrocious and I’d still go just to be in a cinema watching something LoTR related because my grandmother took me to see the original trilogy for my birthday as a kid and that’s what started my lifelong obsession. I’m going for nostalgia but also anime is really pretty and I’m sure the soundtrack is amazing. 😂
all in all i did enjoy the movie, it wasnt perfect though. I do think they did NOT do a good job advertising. A lot of people i know didnt realize it was a theatrical release
wasn't bad....but really not that good either. To many decisions didn't make sense, they didn't properly explain others. Like why nobody threw Helm a rope when he was standing right there in front of the gate. Was expecting something bad, but in the end, I still overall enjoyed the movie, just wouldn't say it was good since it easily could have been better, could have easily stuck to the lore, and been 10 or 20 minutes shorter.
It's not as bad as some people expected, but not as good as it could've been. If they'd been a bit more sparring with the "free and wild princess" trope and let her brothers live a bit longer to have more impact on the story I think that'd have gone a long way. Hera wasnt bad, she was just a bit flat. All we really know about her is she doesn't want to get maried ahe wants to be an adventurer or something like that. The animation was pretty good and I liked the fight scenes. And damn, did Helm Hammerhand earn his name. I think they should've let the Japanese have more creative control to give us a unique take on the LotR. All in all, I'm not a LotR fan and this movie hasn't really changed my opinion. It had some good ideas but they never really came to fruition. I didn't mind the easeter eggs to the original movies because they didn't deteact from the actual movie that was happening. If for some reason they decode to make a sequel I'll keep an open mind, but I wont be expecting much.
I gave up on this video after the comment wondering whether 'Helm Hammerhand' had a pornographic connotation. Duh. Not going to waste my time listening to a bunch of guys who either don't know Tolkien's work or haven't even seen the movie yet make stupid and/or derogatory remarks about it. I'll wait for TCD's review once he's seen it. Might be more interesting and to the point.
I think it is true that Hera wasn't an "active" character, but in that era it is pretty realistic. Like the main story happens 200 years later and Éowyn who is also a princess in Rohan, doesn't do much either. Fantasy shows tend to be in a middle ages-like setup, where women don't have much power or right to decide about a lot of stuff. I agree that they should have highlighted it more or spend more time on Hera's internal struggle, but I think even the script could have been better with better writers (e.g. from Japan). Even without changing the main plot, the dialogues could have been better. Nowadays western script writers are pretty weak compared to the east, e.g. Japanese. Realistically, it is a 6-7/10. I gave it a 7.
I was excited for this the whole year, sadly I found it lackluster. Some likeable things for sure, but mostly uninteresting characters, story and stakes for me. Unnecessary installment into the lotr universe in my opinion. Oh, what could've been. 😢
@@CinemaTherapyReviews Right, I didn't know that going into the movie. 🍿🎥 Well said though, that all things considered, this movie could/should have been a disaster but instead it was a 5/10 imo.
I haven't seen it and don't have any inclination to, from the trailer and the in depth reviews, its a no. 2 1/2 pages in the appendix turned into an over 2 hour film where they focus on a character who is not named and does nothing. They called her Hera - the name of a greek goddess. Not even trying to create a Rohirrim female name. If it was one of a series of prodctions of short films i might watch it. But as it is not wasting time or money. If you enjoyed that's great, not going to take that away from anyone. To me this is a poorly thought out ip driven movie that does not feel close to the spirit of Tolkien's writing. Maybe i am just tired of the slew of lazy franchise productions we have had over the last few years.
Just got back from seeing this. The facial animation or lack thereof was distracting to me at first. I felt like I was watching an anime from the early 90’s as opposed to something modern. All that said, I stopped noticing mid way through because everything was just so beautiful to look at, and just like Hera, I was swept away by the story. 😊
I love how you absolutely fumble the hell out of your first line and just leave it in I had to immediately restart the video cause I was sure you were trying to say therapist but that is not what came out hahaha
There's no reason this movie needed to be over 2 hours. It was an extremely basic story, with flat characters, and painfully slow pacing. I agree with Alan that the art style was great, but the animation was abysmal. As an anime fan, I could completely accept the tropes that people can jump off of mountain sides unhurt, or that a man can kill another man with a single punch. In summation, it had good qualities, but I was bored watching it.
I just got back from seeing this. I liked it but I was disappointed. I also thought the art, specifically the animation, was kind of weird. There was some odd movement here and there and a lot of floaty 2d animated characters on 3d settings. some of it almost looked rotoscoped. Its good but not great.
First, I love the Rocky shirt. Can't post a comment without commenting on that. What Jono loved about the story is something that I hated. The length that they went to use pride to create the story just pissed me right the hell off. Plus, holy hell, did Wulf just frustrate the ever loving hell out of me. As a woman, I felt so frustrated at how much Hera kept just being viewed as an object by both her father and Wulf. Her dad loved her, yes, but his pride blinded him all too often, and it made me deeply dislike him. At least my hatred of Wulf makes sense since he's the active villain of the movie. I came up with a two sentence summary of the movie that I won't share here. That's for friends lol. Overall, I leaned more toward a 7 for this film, but the story alone was a 4 for me. Thanks for making these reviews! They're a blast 😁.
Another one dimensional girl boss female character, always the smartest person in the room, never wrong, always succeeds. No growth whatsoever. All for a character who was so minor Tolkien didn’t even name her. If you want to tell weak stories like this, fine. But don’t pretend it’s an adaptation of Tolkien.
We saw the movie and it’s beautiful. Hera is not a strong female character like the ones they’ve been showing us for the past 10 years, she does fight yes, but like, what? 4 minutes. Helm definitely is the main character, in the end everything is about him as a King and a legend.
I would somewhat disagree, she definitely steals the show and gets an annoying amount of unearned praise from every other character, but I was relieved that, compared to most girl bosses, she's not particularly unlikeable and doesn't immasculate the male characters around her.
I respect your opinion but I'm not going to respect or aide in the success of something that is blatantly disrespectful to Tolkien. From the concept to the very name of the protagonist, it is disrespectful.
I saw this movie the day before yesterday and loved EVERY SECOND OF IT! I saw zero of the issues other critics claimed to have found in the movie. My only nitpick is the fact that to a degree, animation (even elegant Japanese animation) can't quite capture the same level of spectacle Peter Jackson made with the fight scenes. The only exceptions to this rule can be found in Samurai Jack, Last Airbender, Vox Machina, Dragon Prince and the Bruce Timm DC animated shows
I feel like I and a lot of other women connected with Hera way more than Alan did. She wants to be free and is initially unsure of herself as a leader in her father's shadow, but rises to the occasion when her people need her, and finds a way to balance it all in the end. I agreed with Jono's original 8/10 😉
I saw this with my brother-in-law and the two of us are massive Tolkien fans. Coming out of it, we both agreed that the movie was great on its own merits, but the LOTR aspects actually felt out of place. Like, if this movie were (like almost all modern fantasy) borrowing themes and tropes of the world without actually using its characters or settings, it would be truly incredible. One aspect neither of you mentioned I found amazing was the music... the score was gorgeous and The Rider was one I added to my playlist the second I got home. Overall, as a movie, I'd give it an 9/10 and as a LOTR movie, I'd give it a 4.5/10. Definitely happy I saw it and saw it in a theatre.
Loved this review. I mostly share Jono’s view while also understanding Alan’s. This movie actually grew on me more after I watched it because I couldn’t stop thinking about it. The story deeply touched me. Thank you for being one of the only positive-leaning YT reviews I’ve seen for it so far. Even if it wasn’t groundbreaking, I’m glad the focus wasn’t on the negatives for once.
So glad you enjoyed our review. Thanks for watching and sharing your perspective!
Honestly, I loved the movie, and it makes me a little sad people are so critical of it. At the very least, I hope this doesn't dissuade people from LOTR animation because I'd love to see more of that. I definitely think there were some things that could have been done better: some of the seemingly 3D backgrounds could have blended better with the character art, they could have polished or given more detail to some of the story beats, and the animation could have been smoother. However, the story itself was kind of amazing. Some people are mad about the main character and her lack of growth or unimportance in the Tolkien canon, but I think you get more enjoyment out of it if you view her as more of a Ghibli-inspired character. A free-spirited girl that just wanted to do her own thing that gets dragged into conflict and hardship by egos and powers bigger than her. She accepts a leadership role not because she wants it, but because she needs to for the sake of her people. The growth is not from leadership abilities, which she already has, but from actually being willing to fill the role and accept that responsibility herself when needed.
Who knows; maybe the movie actually would have been better with Helm as the main character, but I like this for what it is.
Edit: I loved your review btw!
well, coming from someone who isn't purist, the movie dragged on unnecessarily. The main criticism for the unnamed daughter isn't so much about growth but the fact it was a girl boss who never once got anything wrong and anyone who didn't listen to her, had a tendency of dying. Do I care that Hera killed Wulf, not as much as I actually thought I would, they did build it up between the two so at that point, so having Fealaf be the one to take him out wouldn't have worked in the context of the movie.
The problem with this movie comes to several factors, one, a lot of decisions with the characters didn't make sense, like Helm letting Wulf get all the way to Edoras and then Wulf not seizing or besieging the Hornburg on the way. Then you got Fealaf, who despite being right next to Edoras did nothing....instead of trying to find out what was going on, was planning to run away. They didn't explain that the reason Gondor couldn't help because it was also under attack at the same time, not because of Helm's pride. If they had followed the Lore, there wouldn't have been this confusion.
There is in fact legitimate criticism for this film. They purpose changed significant parts of the Lore of the period, and then underhandly said that Rohan is so sexist(and basically attack Tolkien as well) that not only did they not include her into their songs but changed their history to undermine her. Also, the fact the narration of her being a free-spirited girl didn't work when most of the movie she actually listened to her father and then did all she could to save her country when he couldn't command anymore, but then the last act decided to leave her country even though it would take Rohan took decades to recover from that war...Not exactly a great role model.
frankly if you have issue with people who have legitimate criticism for it....that's your problem, not theirs. I don't care if someone like this movie, it was better than I expected, but don't whine about people who actually have reasons to say its not great
and of course the movie would have been better if they had followed the Lore, the parts they stayed true to were awesome.
Agreed, more LoTR animation please! And I love the idea of expanding on these side characters like Hera; Tolkien was very positive about the idea of communities expanding on existing stories, and I think he’d be disappointed to see people grumping about “sticking to source material” for his appendix tales that are not very fleshed out to begin with.
That said, I do think the film had legitimate issues. Perhaps if it wasn’t in Peter Jackson’s Middle Earth it wouldn’t be as easy to compare to the OG trilogy that were rare 11/10 movies. But, internal character growth for the MC is really important to structuring a story, and I think the writing for Hera was weak in that respect. Think of the hit Pixar flicks of the 2000s: all of them have MCs that are different, better people by the end of the movie. That’s super compelling! Growth is inspiring and relatable. I would’ve loved this movie to bits if they had chosen to go more in that direction; as is, I think it’s fine but won’t be purchasing a copy.
I also personally was disappointed that Wulf became this totally evil villain who ended up making nonsensical decisions because of his desire for revenge. Not that this was an awful choice, but I think it could have been BETTER if there was more nuance here. It kind of reinforces the myth that Tolkien had a simplistic view of morality and that the conflicts in his stories are black-and-white good vs evil.
Hera wanted to be her own person, free from the expectations of fathers and men. Despite being the key driving force that saves the Rohirrim people, she is lost in history to the brute strength of her father and the men at war. She was heroic, but did jot need to become some grand hero. In a way she is the opposite of her father’s/wolf’s pride.
This channel has been such a joy so far. I can't wait to see your reviews of some of the highly anticipated films coming next year. Cheers!
How did I not know this channel existed! I’ve seen every cinematherapy episode. I must not have been paying attention when it was mentioned 😬😂 Love it.
Welcome aboard!
Same
@@CinemaTherapyReviewsThank you!!
To be fair, it like like they only started posting content 3 months ago.
My favorite aspect, outside of Helm Hammerhand's final stand, was how the movie ended: a show of mercy with relatively little violence. Budget-wise, they probably couldn't afford a bigger 3rd act battle (the animation was all over the place as is), but I find it fitting for a Tolkien story nonetheless. So many things could've been improved, but I find this to be its crowning achievement.
An important correction on Kenji Kamiyama: he worked on Akira as an animator, but it's very misleading to say he "brought us Akira." That man was Katsuhiro Otomo.
I was torn between a 7 and an 8 for this film when I saw it yesterday. If we consider how rushed it ended up being, I could curve it up to a 9. I'm inclined to stick with 8/10 if you're a Tolkien fan, maybe less if you're not really into his work like that. I loved that they included what little dialogue Tolkien actually wrote for the story of Helm Hammerhand (as well as narrative bits like "but his knees were unbent", which really brings the part where Freca threatens "Old kings that refuse a proffered staff may fall on their knees" full circle).
My friend and I have been waiting for this one for a while - glad this popped up to remind me!
Sounds alright enough can't wait for the Therapy version later
I feel like Alan and Jon knowing the politics behind how the movie was made, may have colored their perception and enjoyment of it. I wasn’t aware of it until you all mentioned it. I am leaning more towards Jono’s initial reaction out of the movie; as a girl dad I am glad he took influence from his daughter initially and enjoyed it with her. It was really sad to see that crumble in the face of Alan’s critique, which for the most part I feel is unwarranted. I think the animation style was fine; most anime have characters that don’t necessarily emote. As a fan of Studio Ghibli, I think it’s worth looking into the process of how anime is made. I didn’t find it dull and lifeless at all, and maybe it’s because I grew up watching anime from 30 years ago when I was a child. I don’t mind this style, and have enjoyed watching early Studio Ghibli movies whenever they’re re-released in theaters. Regarding Peter Jackson, I love that he continuously expands the role of female characters when he is involved in bringing to life LOTR stories to the screen. It is for me something that is also part of his filmmaking. Hera was not the first time that he expanded a woman’s role beyond a sentence or two from the books in movies, and it’s something that I enjoy seeing. Movies made now are able to modernize stories and fix flaws from books written decades ago, and it’s similar to what Denis Villeneuve is doing with the Dune series. The fact that Alan didn’t relate to Hera’s story at all says a lot, and was sad to see. My teen son and I loved it and we both related to her story a lot. As a woman I push back and say that women don’t have to be ambitious, and this movie shows a different way to be strong. How can we meet the circumstances that life hands us? There were so many different choices that could have been made, especially as a woman; I wish Alan could grow to see that. Helm as a father did a lot to enable Hera as a character; having a Shield Maiden as a caretaker and teaching Hera how to be strong of both mind and body after her mother died. I hope more people take lessons from that, and in how Helm realized too late that the daughter he raised was more than he thought her to be, and hopefully fathers watching don’t have to wait until right before their moment of death to acknowledge their daughters. Rooting for this movie to do well in theaters, and for more LOTR movies to be made. I think animation is a better medium to bring science fiction to life than real life, especially when trying to bring other aspects of JRR Tolkien books to the screen. Watching this review initially gave me trepidation before watching the movie with my son earlier today, but the movie proved to be great, and definitely deserved better than a 6/10 average from you two. This has been the only movie review I disagreed with so far, usually I agree with you two.
I mostly agreed with them but I also agree with you. I loved this movie, and I think your review of it is warranted as a review that should be more publicly seen and accepted, instead of all the negativity I see out there.
I really appreciate your perspective, and I agree that it was an excellent idea on the filmmakers part to center Hera’s story and leave her single at the end. Loved that. More stories like this are important!
While I enjoyed the theater experience, I also only found this movie middle of the road. I so wanted to love Hera and found her… fine, I guess. I left the theater feeling empty and unsatisfied, and I’m a woman who was super excited by the premise!
Maybe my disappointment is due to delving into writing theory and character writing recently.
Maybe it’s just hard for me rn to passively enjoy less-than-perfect movies without analyzing the structure and writing. I just know that this one let me down a little; 6/10 would be my rating as well.
I’m so glad you and your family liked it tho! I will say I love seeing a good old LoTR movie in theaters.
@@justzoeelena307 I agree with the point of the writing, and that I could have liked Hera more. I think many creators struggle writing adequate female characters and stories especially in a male-centric franchise like LOTR, in newer installments. I think it is just as powerful if not more compelling if a female character doesn’t have to do “big” things or “fight” in battles like the male characters to prove herself as an adequate character, just like how a woman should be valued as herself just for who she is regardless of whether she is masculine enough to pick up a sword or not. I think creators often forget that it is not about making women like men, but making them interesting in their own way.
I only knew this movie was coming out because one of my favourite artists, Paris Paloma, released a song that was in this movie! But now I really want to see it lol
✨May the Howard Shore score crescendo!✨
And the Sakuga Animation flow!
I was so relieved to see a female character who is described as clever by other characters and actually does clever things.
I do agree with Alan that Héra could have used more character depth and I think the place to do that would have been more focus on her friendship with Wulf. If they had really leaned into the friends to enemies arc, the ending would have slain us all emotionally.
If I could mind map for a sec here...I'd have shown her as excited to see Wulf when she hears that Freca has arrived, maybe even have them briefly meet before the witan and she picks up on a new vibe from him that confuses her. He's being distant, not joking with her like she expects and has always been their dynamic. She's thrown. It's something she could quickly express to Olwyn (clearly her surrogate mother). It would give a little more groundwork for their private conversation afterwards where she realizes that it isn't just his crappy dad's ambition, Wulf genuinely wants to change their dynamic to a romantic one. (Hera gave me ace vibes, and that could easily be conveyed in Middle-earth appropriate ways. Also a man's refusal to accept a woman's rejection leading to destruction has precedent in this world- look up Maeglin, if you want to know more😬) Maybe Wulf reveals here some agreement with his crappy dad's ambition that Héra had always thought him against. The first crack in their friendship.
I would add a sweet father-daughter scene after Wulf's banishment where Helm and Héra actually talk about these marriage offers. This could establish that Helm has been well aware that Héra does not want to marry, and since she's the youngest and a girl and it isn't as vital for her to marry as it is for Haleth (who needs to continue the line) he's been willing to put that off for the sake of her happiness. This would also be a great place to bring up the existing alliance between Rohan and Gondor; Helm could argue that with Wulf swearing revenge they need strong ties to Gondor more than ever- unlike Fréca, Wulf is a capable warrior and his people love him more than they did his father, establishing him as a genuine threat. Héra could respond "Is the oath of Eorl not enough? Does Gondor need my body also to call us friend?" This is the first place to seed in a theme of duty vs freedom with Héra.
I think that would set her up for development, since she would have to step into greater and greater duty to Rohan over the course of the film.
And as she rides into her final duel, she should definitely have said "I am the bride of Rohan". I really thought she was going to evoke Elizabeth I there and it threw me when she didn't.
Anyway, that's my ramble of how I'd give Héra an arc.
Forth Eorlingas!🐎
(And another thing ...I felt a distinct lack of Rohirrim/Anglo Saxon pageantry. They could have opened the witan with proper ceremony: in the absence of a queen, Héra is the lady of Meduseld and would be the one to greet honored guests with the ceremonial cup--"Westu hal, Wulf son of Fréca" with a friendly smile he doesn't quite return).
Pleeeease say you got the amazing hammer popcorn bucket!
Alas we did not!
I kind of feel like this movie was basically the Tolkien Foundation's apology about how Eowyn's story ended. I didn't know Hera was an actual character mentioned in the book appendices and her path was set, so when I watched the movie I was rather bummed that she didn't become the king, although I also realize her character was fated to be free instead of on a throne. But the whole movie was about Hera gaining the freedom and confidence to make her choices little my little.
Great review guys!
Thanks so much!
I like anime, but the animation style did not work for me in this context. It felt wrong to mash those two. Also, the main character's clothes looked like a flesh suit half the time and way too different from everybody else's clothes. Plus I despised that she was the only red haired (pink haired) character. And the bad guy had sharp teeth and the worst villain story ever.
I totally agree
Other than the fact that the narrator told me Hera was "wild and free and headstrong" i did not see any personality traits in her. What made her headstrong, exactly?! She is extremely one dimensional. Other than helm no one had a character arc. She had no flaws to overcome.
The action sequences may not have measured up to the Peter Jackson level of epic, but you definitely FELT the weight of Helm Hammerhands fists. I genuinely enjoyed this movie and it almost felt like a Ghibli in way, at least with more of that style of story telling.
I really enjoyed this film when I first watched it. The voice acting was really good. The animation for the most part was well done. There were some spots where it looked rushed or just looked off but again good for the most part.
But after replaying it in my head I realized that there were a few plot holes. The first was the archers of the rohirrim. When wulf approached helms deep , it looked like he was within range of the archers. So when he killed the prince in front of everyone, why didn't the archers just shoot him? If he was out of range then fine.
The second was that they established that the enemy encampment was out of range of the archers. However, the enemy encampment could shoot their messenger birds. If they were on a equal technological level, that means that the enemy archers would have to be in range of the other archers in order to shoot down the birds. The only other option would be that the enemy archers bows had a longer range which means they could have laid down suppressing fire allowing the ground forces to advance on the keep. No need for that siege bridge.
Then was helms death. They did a good job of depicting it as it was in the book however, they clearly show that four able-bodied men couldn't open the door cuz it was Frozen shut. However, helm and Hera were able to pry it open just enough for Hera to get through, with helm then being able too close it by himself. So in reality a couple more people would have been able to open it. The second was that the older shield maiden had a looking glass and could see the duo running through the camp meaning that the Snow wasn't obscuring visibility, meaning that the guards on top of the gate could have helped King Helm. What they should have done was have the snow be so bad that there was no good visibility for anyone and the only way for Hera to escape was to lower a rope down from the top of the gate leaving helm to stay on the ground for Hera to escape.
Lastly, was the conclusion to wulf and Hera's fight. They clearly showed that wolf was stronger than Hera so she had to be quicker and smart but when wolf went for the sneak attack, All the sudden she can match him and was even able to pin him down. That sequence would have worked if wolf would have pushed her off, Go for his sword, but before he wouldn't be able to deliver The killing blow, Hera would grab her own sword and stab him in the gut. I would like to know that I didn't have a problem with Hers's character. It was just that one scene
And then when Hera's left, it would have made more sense that she couldn't stay due to the fact that the death of her brothers and father was still too fresh in her mind instead of her wanting to go on an adventure.
Again, I really wanted to like this movie but I just couldn't overlook those plot holes. So for me, 6 out of 10,
Thanks for another review, gentlemen! Would you ever consider making a top 5-10 movies of the year for each of you? I don’t think it would be necessary to have it be a super in depth discussion-just a fun look back.
I gave this movie a solid B-. The characters were absolutely gorgeous, but I had issues with the writing and the fact that some of the animation was choppy (especially when contrasting it to the amount of very fluid animation we've been having recently).
For the writing, the characters didn't feel really fleshed out with justified actions until later in the movie. I remember wishing there was better set-up for the conflict so that I could feel the emotional impact more drastically. For example, the relationship between Hera and Wulf being just the 1 sentence "we used to be inseparable as kids" and the scene where they were mock-fighting did not make me think they had a really meaningful relationship. It really felt like a man just let his pride inflate his sense of self to the point of destruction. Because the story is written in Hera's perspective, I grew to really enjoy her as a character and watching her struggle and make decisions that showcased her care for the people. I really wished there was a bit more on Wulf's side that showed a little of how he descended into this rage for revenge - small, repeated moments of being denied/rejected, his father telling him something about what he and his people are owed, etc. Just something to make him more well-rounded.
In terms of animation, I feel like the budget went all out for the non-humans L O L Watch those eagles fly, see those horses gallop, so smooth. And then the frame rates on the people were sometimes 😬 And a decent amount of the 3D environments weren't made to blend well with the 2D characters on top, so I kept being taken out of the immersion of the film. I don't know the politics that happened for the development of this film, so I'm sure that was a major contributing factor.
I honestly wasn't planning on watching it, but it happened to release on a day off so I said "yolo, lemme take myself out on a date." I told my friend group immediately, I don't think it's a necessary theater watch. I found the ending to be satisfying and was super happy to see we got some of the OG hobbit actors in the mix. I would absolutely buy an art book of this and read paragraphs of lore, but not necessarily race to watch it again.
I actually saw this movie over a month ago at a special screening near where I live, for free, and as soon as the end credits started to roll, I wanted to see the movie again and actually pay to see it!
The animation is beautiful, the voice casting is spot on, and the story is epic. Brian Cox as Helm Hamerhand is perfection!
There were some minor flaws, like they could have done a slightly better job at setting up the conflict. Maybe a little more background on the history between the men of Dunland and Rohan. But otherwise, it was amazing. And it's less than 3 hours long lol.
I've glanced at some reviews, and they make the comparison between this film and the LOTR Trilogy, which only sets it up for failure. LOTR is the gold standard for filmmaking. It's simply not fair to use that as a standard for measuring the War of the Rohirrim. I'm a huge fan of animation, so that was the standard I used.
If nothing else, it's far better than the Hobbit Trilogy overall.
Definitely, not fair to compare it to the original trilogy. The Hobbit movies would be a better comparison since both of them tried to chase the "gold standard" , but I think the Hobbit budget is still many times more than this movie.
You guys need to do a cinema therapy episode about this
I usually agree with what both of you say in general, but I don't with this review. I saw this movie last night and it was brilliant. And I hope a lot of people, especially women, go see it. 9/10 for me, and I rarely rate anything over 5 these days.
Spoiler Free Version: There were some issues with the story in that many of the male main characters were predictable. But, like John said, it was realistic to how people would react in real life. This movie truly is a study in ego. Visually the movie is stunning, and there are so many epic moments. Soooo many technically difficult drawing shots! Any Lord of the Rings fan and/or anime fan will have a great time.
Spoiler Version: They let the female main character stay single. I don't think John and Alan quite grasp the importance of having a storyline where women come together to win the day while still maintaining their independence at the end. I was bawling at the end when I realized Hera was allowed to walk away without a marriage or pregnancy. I knew from the moment the movie started what Hera wanted, and her motivation: she wanted to keep her independence while still maintaining the success of her community and people. But I am also a single woman with similar motivations and goals in life, and know it is a rare lifestyle choice not many understand. The success of this movie is so important for making more stories where women get to be independent at the end. We need more stories where women aren't cast as the mother or wife, and where women come together to support each other and win.
Lord of the rings is a book I read every year, and the movies were pretty much my entire personality in middle school. I would say the movie wasn't great as an entry into the middle earth world building but I also couldn't stop smiling and laughing throughout the entire movie. It's in the same vein as evil dead for me
I love this type of animation/anime on the big screen. And I love the lord of the rings. So I’m super exited about this movie.
OKAY just got back from viewing and a note about the animation - there are MANY beautiful nods to the original animated movies.
From the eyes of Wulf being just like Gollum's (same color, same zoom-ins, same little dashy designs), a lot of similar movements (especially evident in Wulf's father) and some of the character designs from Leif to the orcs. It actually gave me more nostalgia for the cartoons than for the movie trilogy.
Hey happy holidays. Love your channel and the chances I get to see the comments and learn what you think about our favorite movies 🎉
Happy holidays!
7:07 I don't know why, but this comment made me think of Dredd being a "day in the life of" film. Not that I think it's, "Pride spiraling out of control and Rohirram fighting needlessly? Guess it must be a Thursday in Middle Earth...." But just a random but notable story in a series of stories kind of Thursday.
Thanks for the honest review!
Eh. I thought this movie was supposed to be about Helm but Hera took all of his spotlight. Which would be okay if she was an interesting character, but if she's got an arc I don't see it. She's pretty much the same at the end as she is at the start, and gave me a few too many Rings of Power vibes. That's kinda the same with everyone to be fair, but it's a shame. This movie had a lot of potential. Guess lighting only strikes the Lord of the Rings adaptation rod once.
Frodo was the same all the way through and Sam was the one with the real arc. Does that mean the oringal trilogy is bad?
@TheWhills I would disagree. Just the opposite actually. Frodo started as a carefree lad, who wished he could go on adventures with Bilbo and longed to see the world, that stepped up to take responsibility and bear a burden he shouldn't have had to carry. As he continues on his journey, he continously finds deeper and deeper strength, even in the moments when he almost gives into despair. By the end, he is a world weary man, enlightened in his understanding that things with never go back to the way they were, not for him. Sam does not have a character arc. It is precisely because of that that Frodo makes it through, because Sam never loses hope, his somewhat simple view, his hobbitish view, is what keeps Frodo grounded, reminding him that throughout the chaos pounding away at Frodo's remarkable and previously unknown resolve, what they are fighting for. And at the end, it's because he never changed that Sam is able to return, where Frodo is not. Sam is a great character, but he would not work as the primary protagonist. So it is here.
@Nargon46 wow, I think we may have watched two different movies. I guess i should clarify. To my eyes, Frodo does have an arc, its just the weaker one. He faultered the entire way and only made it because of Sam's newfound courage. The thing that stayed the same was his undying loyalty to Frodo. Like I said, Frodo fails throughout the story and Sam is his Deus Ex, but Sam doesnt start that way. Frodo goes through doubt, but its Sam that keeps him going. Frodo trusts Smeagol, gets caught by Shelob, etc. Sam is the true hero of the story. Love to hear more of your take
@TheWhills I agree with all of that, but I don't see how Sam *changes* . He always had that courage, he never wavered out of fear, he snuck into the Council of Elrond and was the first of the Hobbits to volunteer to go with Frodo, and thats after he listened in on Frodo and Gandalf because he was protective of Frodo. From the very beginning when Gandalf charged him with being Frodo's companion, he embraced that with a furver that was unmatched by any of the others. He stays that way through the whole story, and by the end, he is still that way. Old faithful Sam. Sam may be the "real hero" in the sense that he is integral to the destruction of the Ring, but he still isn't the main character, that's Frodo. Plus, each of them have an essential function in that regard at different points. And Frodo goes through immense changes throughout the story, as I said before starting out as a nieve, lighthearted boy and ending as a wiser, but damaged man. Sam is still the same old faithful Sam he was at the start.
@Nargon46 the scene where he stops dead at the farthest he's ever been from the Shire? He's deathly afraid. I see what youre saying, but i think we may be reading it differently. Anyway, to my original point, I dont think Hera needed massive change for the story to be good. Or even great. I loved it.
Guys we gotta help this movie *CHARGE* towards box office success
100% agree, whether you liked the movie or not, it needs to succeed because we need more big budget cinematic 2D animated movies
I am literally spending so much time in social media telling people how amazing this movie is. 🥹❤
No we do not. This is garbage and is in the process of ruining it for the rest of us who actually like good stories, characters, animation and genre in general 😢
FOR DEEEAAATTH!
I loved this review! I think even as a woman who was thrilled leading up to this to see a story centered on a Rohan shieldmaiden, I align more with Alan on this one. I felt like a little too often Hera was too perfect, and I was hoping to see her struggle more internally (maybe with grief or despair, or overcome her own pride/hubris in a way her father and brothers couldn’t; was disappointed to not get much character growth from her in that way) and would’ve liked to see a little more nuance in Wulf’s villainy. Those are my main critiques though - I certainly got excited during a few cool scenes, loved the sound and character design, and overall had a good time. 5.5/10.
I felt like what Hera wanted was to matter to her father and her people and not be erased and sent off to get married to someone from another kingdom. I feel like she was written to directly counter the lack of mention in the story in the book. She was nameless and only mentioned as the daughter Wulf wanted to marry. It feels like this movie was trying to tell the story of all the women whose existence wasn't valued and story wasn't written because the history was written by men. I loved it.
Kind of hilarious that the comment section (well and reactions from other places) can't agree on whether they hated it because Hera is a "girlboss" or they were relieved because Hera wasn't a "girlboss". Goes to show how little that word means and how the usage of that word speaks more about the person using it than the movie.
I wouldn't call the movie good by any stretch, but I loved it anyway. As an enjoyer of both anime and Lords of the Rings, I think the two came together pretty well. The character designs with the form-fitting outfits does bother me a bit but they usually aren't very noticeable when actually watching. Definitely going for rewatches.
Favorite character was Olwyn. She's an absolute chad.
I haven't seen the movie yet, but I've been working hard to try to write my own novel and have done a lot to learn how to write properly. One point that often is said for writing in general is that your story won't be interesting and engaging if your main characters do not have INTERNAL CONFLICT. What do they want? What are their fears holding them back from it? External conflict is the stuff that happens to them and whisks a character along and you can't have a story with just external conflict. It sounds like Hera is given only external conflict and no internal conflict, which is a mistake writing-wise. I'll be interested to see it eventually, but I've never had my hope high for it.
Seems a lot more promising than the Hobbit trilogy. To be fair, the Hobbit is one of my favorite books and after seeing the first one, I couldn't watch the other two but I've heard they go even more off the rails. If it comes to Netflix I'll definitely give it a chance.
I wouldn't say they go "off the rails" for the most part. The same spirit is there. However, there is an awful lot of padding and added content in an attempt to make it the same scale as LOTR. I still found The Hobbit entertaining as films, but they would have worked better as a duology.
There are some solid fan-edits to slim the bloated Hobbit Trilogy into a one or two movies. The last one of the trilogy, the Battle of the Five Armies, is a CGI bloated monstrosity. But PJ himself said that he didn't have time to really plan it and work on the script, and was just throwing stuff at the wall to see what stuck, in order to have a third movie in theaters in time.
@@anarionelendili8961 I guess I could check some of them out. For me, the struggle would be to find a natural end between a first and second film. A good possible cliffhanger (if there wasn't a gap year between films) might be the initial meeting between the 13 and Bard.
@@kivimik There is a about 4:20h runtime "The Hobbit M4 book edit", which has an intermission where the first movie ended, around 1:50h in. I thought that worked pretty well.
I agree with Alan about this film.
It's no master piece like Peter Jackson's trilogy, but I really liked it. I have a few thoughts about how it could have been better, but nothing that brings it down too much.
I know a lot of people wish Helm was the main character, but I think it's better to have someone else in this case. I think that with a crazy overpowered character like Helm it is more impactful to view their actions from someone else's point of view. And Helm still does all the crazy stuff he did in lore.
I loved it fellas
I'm unexpected staying home for Christmas, as opposed to flying to my family, so I'll definitely be watching this during the holidays! I don't expect it to have anywhere near the impact the trilogy had when seeing that in the cinema but I LOVE LotR so even though anime isn't my thing, I'm sure I'll enjoy it. As long as the plot makes a wee bit more sense than ROP plot did(although I've only seen half of season 1 - the dramatic charge to a village nobody from Numenor knew off was too much nonsense for me).
Agree 100% with the criticisms raised, but in the case of this movie I've just found that those things weren't deal breakers for me. Even when I noticed little issues or had complaints while watching, it never ruined the experience and I atill thoroughly enjoyed the movie.
This is the most balanced review I've heard, thanks, as it resonates with my mixed option of the film, the art was stunning and the voice acting, the anime style was unique but niche... But the story writing, and ending, for me a bit unsatisfying, but probably without Jackson would be worse.
John, I love your Superman and Wonder Woman posters. I also love the TMNT arcade game in the background. I am also looking forward to this movie. I’m easily entertained so I’m expecting to at least enjoy it and be more in John’s side of it. Considering I enjoyed the Rings of power series.
I've been on the fence about whether to see this on theaters or catch it once it's streaming somewhere, but I will say: It looks gorgeous. Whatever the quality of the story I know it's gonna look and sound phenomenal
Watching movies at the theater is something special!
Thanks for the review! I enjoyed this movie, but didn't love it. I'm a pretty big Tolkien (but not necessarily PJ) fan who doesn't watch a lot of animated content. I loved the landscape art, but thought the animation of the people seemed saturated and a little choppy, particularly in the beginning. Some of the visuals were stunning, though, particulrly of Helm, and that map transition in the beginning. I didn't like the frequency of PJ movie callbacks, and the ending definitely didn't work for me. The story was, fine, and I thought Hera was a sufficiently compelling character. I would have liked more of her relationship with her brothers. What I really felt missing was 1) more of Freáláf's story and 2) background and political context on the Dunlendings. I was disappointed in the lack of nuance in the depiction of them. But, despite these criticisms, I agree that it makes a fun Thursday movie. I'm not sure it's asking the audience to think much more deeply than that.
I feel like Hera is like Brad Pitt's character, Tristan, in Legends Of the Fall. She is a wild child that does not like to live the life established for her. She loves her family, but not happy with the restrictions - whether her father's protection or marriage idea.
I do want to know the budget for this movie. The movie is better than a TV anime, but compare to movies like Suzume or Weathering With You, the animation is sub par.
I just saw it. It was good and I like that they had the music in it and that it was produced by Perter Jackson...but I have to say I don't think it needed to be long as it was though.
I thought it was really cool (even though not explicitly said) that Hera didn't want to marry - she was a really great representative of the aroace community and it's been a long time since I as an ace person have been able to connect with a character that way
In regards to the animation, especially comparing it to Akira. Akira was made in the 80's, before Japan's economy crash, so there was more money available to throw at a studio project.
I think a lot of people are underrating this movie for reasons that aren't its fault, Alan included.
Of course the characters are mostly two-dimensional, they're sketches from a short story Tolkien shoved into the Appendices. Inventing deep personalities and internal conflicts for all of them would have move the film away from the source material, which people would have complained about as well. The movie can't win on that front, so it's not fair to criticise. The fan-service stuff added some variety and interest. And yeah, the main protagonist isn't a complex, tortured hero. She's a capable person who rises to a particular situation. That's what leadership looks like 99% of the time, why should personal goals have to come into it for her arc to be 'good'? Because storytelling convention dictates so?
Sure, it wasn't perfect. The animation was flawed, particularly in the way the characters moved. But can we step back and think about how cool it is that someone approached Lord of the Rings with a totally different style? I love that there's room to present new stories from Middle Earth in ways that differentiate them visually. More importantly, this movie embodied the themes and 'heart' of Tolkien while also staying humble. It told a strong, contained story that wasn't setting up anything bigger, ensuring it would be enjoyable and not an overstuffed mess like many blockbusters now are. That should be applauded, not met with 'meh'.
Yes, the term Mary Sue has become gross because its mostly used by men trying to undermine strong female characters. But Mary Sues do exist in media, when female characters have power just because. There are ten Gary Stus for every one Mary Sue, but I digress. The women in this movie weren't Mary Sues. They were strong because of who they were, and they used their strength for good reasons that supported the story, not just to provide a pointed spectacle. In many ways, this film is an antidote to a Hollywood dominated by tacky, shallow blockbusters. It really deserves 9/10 rather than 6.
How have you guys not done The Battle star mini-series. It’s three hours long and you guys could have a field day with Commander Adama.
Color me intrigued. I have my final project in my psychology of horror films class on Tuesday, and I was looking at going to the movies to celebrate finishing. I've always struggled with connecting to lord of the rings because I have a hard time understanding what's going on, but if I can just sit back and look at all the pretty colors and animation, I might just give it a shot
I agreed with the CinemaScore rating: B. Had issues, but overall enjoyable.
Have you guys watched Arcane on Netflix?? It is SO AWESOME, and also full of characters to therapize 😅
Man, I was looking forward to watching this in theater but idk now.
I’ll be seeing it tonight.
Haven't seen the movie. But I saw the trailer in theaters when I was sitting down for Transformers One (great movie btw). I thought the trailer was cool, but now it just makes me want a Fire Emblem movie lol
As Saruman would say: Go see the anime movie of a thatched barn where brigands drink in the reek, and their brats roll on the floor among the dogs
I think my least favorite thing was Héra’s character design. There’s no reason she had to have this vivid unnaturally red hair and dress so differently from every other character of her culture. Even if she wasn’t blonde I would have preferred her to at least have a natural red hair color. Her appearance took me out of the story every time it cut to a shot of her. I have other gripes, but overall I had fun watching it and it’s good for what it is. I also give it a 6/10.
One thing I found quite disappointing is the lack of impactful lines that weren't (or at least felt like) recycled from LOTR for fan service. I could hear Theoden and others, but not this movie's characters
I saw it today and while I did enjoy it, there are a few elements that annoyed me. Like this scene at 5:35. Or how the scene where Helm blows his horn before the battle and the scene just sits on him too long. Then there was the shieldmaiden angle. I get that it's a reference to Nordic tales and the reality of medieval women taking up arms to defend themselves during times of war, but the film never really explains how they garnered the respect that the characters seem to treat them with. Women defending themselves earned them a place in a meeting of the lords of Rohan at one time?
Imagining some animators in Japan cramming so they can pump out a movie then some really good voice actors in America making great voice performances helps explain the thing about the emotion not being shown on the faces of the characters. 🤣
The voice actors were working on something that was being made an entire continent away from them. 😂
I had the same problem. Couldn't connect with the characters. Couldn't sense their emotions. Maybe anime is just not my style. Plus there were too many similarities to the LotR trilogy. Why did we need another sister-son unnecessarily banned from Edoras only to make a last minute appearance to save the day? And just in the same way? Couldn't they have new and original ideas?
But it was quite nice "popcorn-cinema". And it didn't sincerely violate Tolkiens world. Would rate it at 6.5/10.
Can you guys explain the political stuff you mentioned? In one comment you said something about not wanting to lose the rights, but what does that have to do with the movie being made, or the speed at which it was made. Sorry if this is explained elsewhere. I’m a huge Tolkien guy, so am excited to see the film.
From my little grasp on it, if you own any IP you have to publish something if be a book, a TV show, a comic etc... or it'll slowly be trusted into public domain and anyone can use those characters, world, terms. In this case they decided to make an animated film on the Lord Of the Rings to keep the IP relevant.
The contract that New Line (a Warner bros subsidiary) has with the original film-rights holders of the LotR books (it’s very complicated) requires them to release a film every set number of years, or the film rights revert back to the original entity (the Zaentz company, I think. Again, super-complicated) Warners didn’t want to lose the rights, so they rushed this movie out in like… 18 months? So that they can keep the rights for another however many years.
So, this could be a lot worse than it is. But I’m annoyed, because I want every movie, especially lotr movie, to be GREAT. And this was (imo) fine. Just… fine.
-alan
@@CinemaTherapyReviews thank you Alan. I didn’t know any of that and I do try to keep up with anything Tolkien. As I am not a “Peter Jackson is the best” fan, I wonder if it might have been better for it to lapse. Anyway, thank you for the info and for the review. Heard it hadn’t done well initially but do still want to see it in theater.
I went in braced for the worst, and thus came out somewhat relieved, but if I'd gone in with super high expectations I'd have been rather disappointed. The trailers made no secret that Hera was going to be a show-stealing girl-boss, so that wasn't a surprise, but while I got pretty annoyed with all the unearned praise everyone threw at her at every chance they got, I was at least relieved that she wasn't particularly obnoxious or unlikeable compared to most modern girl-bosses, just kinda bland, and I was most relieved that she didn't immasculate any of the male characters, though I do wish they got more of the spotlight.
Really, what annoyed me more than Hera was all the blatantly shoehorned and nonsensical easter eggs, from the orcs looking for rings and subsequent name drop of Gandalf, none of which makes sense or serves any purpose in the story, to the watcher in the water, which makes absolutely no sense considering what we know of it in The Lord of the Rings.
Overall, it was similar in quality to the first Hobbit film, in my opinion. It had a lot of good and was overall enjoyable, but was held back by some really annoying decisions.
I overall liked the movie, but I felt it was too long. As is I give it a 6.5, but honestly if they just cut everything from Hera and crew finding the southron to her making it back to edoras I would give it an 8. The middle-earth kaiju fight was the low point for me.
i think some of the epic comparisons don't measure up. but i really enjoyed the characterization we got for helm hammerhand. i will say, when i first started watching, i was nervous about the female protagonist just because there are so many female lead films out there where the character is written and characterized as invincible and that all of her supporting cast is an afterthought where the female MC would be insufferable. But I actually enjoyed her characterization as i found her to be similar to eowyn. i will say, i wonder if this would have had better success as a 1 or 2 season tv show. My raiting would be a 7/10. :)
I was definitely sad to see Hama and Haleth's deaths though. I kinda wish they didnt have to die but I actually havent read the books so I'm assuming their deaths are recorded and mentioned somewhere in the books.
I will say when i first saw the trailers for it, I was thinking "oh this is cool, an animated TV show set in the LOTR universe". and then I found out it was animated movie and I was like well, I'll still watch it but i'm a little sad that its not a tv show. haha.
I did find it really awkward though with their fan service of giving us Saruman and Gandalf.
The Saruman part is straight from the appendices.
@Lauresaurus96 ahhh okay. :)
I’m just excited that after *mumbles* years, I get to spend my birthday watching another LoTR movie in the cinema. Like, you could say the movie is atrocious and I’d still go just to be in a cinema watching something LoTR related because my grandmother took me to see the original trilogy for my birthday as a kid and that’s what started my lifelong obsession. I’m going for nostalgia but also anime is really pretty and I’m sure the soundtrack is amazing. 😂
all in all i did enjoy the movie, it wasnt perfect though. I do think they did NOT do a good job advertising. A lot of people i know didnt realize it was a theatrical release
wasn't bad....but really not that good either. To many decisions didn't make sense, they didn't properly explain others. Like why nobody threw Helm a rope when he was standing right there in front of the gate. Was expecting something bad, but in the end, I still overall enjoyed the movie, just wouldn't say it was good since it easily could have been better, could have easily stuck to the lore, and been 10 or 20 minutes shorter.
Please review The Wild Robot ❤❤
We already did! ua-cam.com/video/RvzPoIFYFto/v-deo.html
@ totally missed that - thank you!!
It's not as bad as some people expected, but not as good as it could've been. If they'd been a bit more sparring with the "free and wild princess" trope and let her brothers live a bit longer to have more impact on the story I think that'd have gone a long way. Hera wasnt bad, she was just a bit flat. All we really know about her is she doesn't want to get maried ahe wants to be an adventurer or something like that. The animation was pretty good and I liked the fight scenes. And damn, did Helm Hammerhand earn his name. I think they should've let the Japanese have more creative control to give us a unique take on the LotR. All in all, I'm not a LotR fan and this movie hasn't really changed my opinion. It had some good ideas but they never really came to fruition. I didn't mind the easeter eggs to the original movies because they didn't deteact from the actual movie that was happening. If for some reason they decode to make a sequel I'll keep an open mind, but I wont be expecting much.
I gave up on this video after the comment wondering whether 'Helm Hammerhand' had a pornographic connotation. Duh. Not going to waste my time listening to a bunch of guys who either don't know Tolkien's work or haven't even seen the movie yet make stupid and/or derogatory remarks about it. I'll wait for TCD's review once he's seen it. Might be more interesting and to the point.
I think it is true that Hera wasn't an "active" character, but in that era it is pretty realistic. Like the main story happens 200 years later and Éowyn who is also a princess in Rohan, doesn't do much either.
Fantasy shows tend to be in a middle ages-like setup, where women don't have much power or right to decide about a lot of stuff.
I agree that they should have highlighted it more or spend more time on Hera's internal struggle, but I think even the script could have been better with better writers (e.g. from Japan). Even without changing the main plot, the dialogues could have been better.
Nowadays western script writers are pretty weak compared to the east, e.g. Japanese.
Realistically, it is a 6-7/10. I gave it a 7.
Kenji Kamiyama has been involved in some cool stuff but not Akira! That was Katsuhiro Otomo.
He was a background artist for Akira.
@CinemaTherapyReviews Cool!
I was excited for this the whole year, sadly I found it lackluster. Some likeable things for sure, but mostly uninteresting characters, story and stakes for me. Unnecessary installment into the lotr universe in my opinion.
Oh, what could've been. 😢
Yeah, it's the product of the studio not wanting to lose the rights. 🤷
@@CinemaTherapyReviews Right, I didn't know that going into the movie. 🍿🎥
Well said though, that all things considered, this movie could/should have been a disaster but instead it was a 5/10 imo.
I haven't seen it and don't have any inclination to, from the trailer and the in depth reviews, its a no. 2 1/2 pages in the appendix turned into an over 2 hour film where they focus on a character who is not named and does nothing. They called her Hera - the name of a greek goddess. Not even trying to create a Rohirrim female name.
If it was one of a series of prodctions of short films i might watch it. But as it is not wasting time or money.
If you enjoyed that's great, not going to take that away from anyone. To me this is a poorly thought out ip driven movie that does not feel close to the spirit of Tolkien's writing. Maybe i am just tired of the slew of lazy franchise productions we have had over the last few years.
Just got back from seeing this. The facial animation or lack thereof was distracting to me at first. I felt like I was watching an anime from the early 90’s as opposed to something modern. All that said, I stopped noticing mid way through because everything was just so beautiful to look at, and just like Hera, I was swept away by the story. 😊
"She didn't want or choose anything." Did you not watch the end? She straight up says, "I made a choice." Alan stfu
Just because a character says a thing doesn't make it so. "Show, don't tell."
I love Tolkien and my girls love anime, so we are 100% seeing this in the theaters. Thanks for your reflections!
We hope you all enjoy it!
I love how you absolutely fumble the hell out of your first line and just leave it in
I had to immediately restart the video cause I was sure you were trying to say therapist but that is not what came out hahaha
There's no reason this movie needed to be over 2 hours. It was an extremely basic story, with flat characters, and painfully slow pacing. I agree with Alan that the art style was great, but the animation was abysmal. As an anime fan, I could completely accept the tropes that people can jump off of mountain sides unhurt, or that a man can kill another man with a single punch.
In summation, it had good qualities, but I was bored watching it.
I loved this movie and I wish we had more anime style movies like this
Just got back from watching it and it was great! Helm was phenomenal. The anime was great except for certain points but didn’t ruin the film overall.
I just got back from seeing this. I liked it but I was disappointed. I also thought the art, specifically the animation, was kind of weird. There was some odd movement here and there and a lot of floaty 2d animated characters on 3d settings. some of it almost looked rotoscoped. Its good but not great.
First, I love the Rocky shirt. Can't post a comment without commenting on that.
What Jono loved about the story is something that I hated. The length that they went to use pride to create the story just pissed me right the hell off. Plus, holy hell, did Wulf just frustrate the ever loving hell out of me. As a woman, I felt so frustrated at how much Hera kept just being viewed as an object by both her father and Wulf. Her dad loved her, yes, but his pride blinded him all too often, and it made me deeply dislike him. At least my hatred of Wulf makes sense since he's the active villain of the movie.
I came up with a two sentence summary of the movie that I won't share here. That's for friends lol.
Overall, I leaned more toward a 7 for this film, but the story alone was a 4 for me. Thanks for making these reviews! They're a blast 😁.
Another one dimensional girl boss female character, always the smartest person in the room, never wrong, always succeeds. No growth whatsoever.
All for a character who was so minor Tolkien didn’t even name her.
If you want to tell weak stories like this, fine. But don’t pretend it’s an adaptation of Tolkien.
It was 2 hours and 14 minutes-a little too long. I found myself looking at my watch because I was so bored.
5 stars.
We saw the movie and it’s beautiful. Hera is not a strong female character like the ones they’ve been showing us for the past 10 years, she does fight yes, but like, what? 4 minutes.
Helm definitely is the main character, in the end everything is about him as a King and a legend.
I would somewhat disagree, she definitely steals the show and gets an annoying amount of unearned praise from every other character, but I was relieved that, compared to most girl bosses, she's not particularly unlikeable and doesn't immasculate the male characters around her.
Talented writer and director however flick was girl boss/ Mary sue. Wish better stories from Tolkien could be developed like war if wrath.
The production studio thought "what is missing from modern movies? Eureka!! A feminist message with a girl-boss as a main character!!!" 🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮
I respect your opinion but I'm not going to respect or aide in the success of something that is blatantly disrespectful to Tolkien. From the concept to the very name of the protagonist, it is disrespectful.
I saw this movie the day before yesterday and loved EVERY SECOND OF IT!
I saw zero of the issues other critics claimed to have found in the movie. My only nitpick is the fact that to a degree, animation (even elegant Japanese animation) can't quite capture the same level of spectacle Peter Jackson made with the fight scenes. The only exceptions to this rule can be found in Samurai Jack, Last Airbender, Vox Machina, Dragon Prince and the Bruce Timm DC animated shows
I really wanted to like it.
It was shit.
Unfortunately, the film is long and boring at times, it looks a bit 90's