Frodo isn’t meant to be a warrior and thats what makes his character so good. He’s so innocent and literally gets mind tortured by this powerful weapon. It shows how brave he is taking that ring all the way to mordor with 0 experience
In a way, he's stronger than Boromir and Isildur. He's able to resist the ring for months, whereas Boromir tempted by the ring before the Fellowship is even formed, and Isildur succumbed to it almost as soon as he received it.
Yes. Frodo is the greatest because he is the least in size, strength, and status yet he is the one who CAN carry the world's burden with his resistance and persistence.
21:50 Not sure how much you already know, but Gandalf and the other Istari (wizards) are Maiar. The divine beings of the world include the Valar (basically gods) and the Maiar (essentially angels). The five wizards were Maiar sent from Valinor, the realm of the gods, to Middle Earth after Sauron's defeat in the forms of unassuming old men to act as guides to the nations of men and keep an eye on Sauron's presence in the world. Gandalf's physical form was killed fighting the balrog and his soul returned to Valinor, where the Valar sent him back to Middle Earth with an upgrade and promotion to Saruman's former position as the head of the Istari. Hope that helps.
If your a Lore junkie, Tolkien is absolutely amazing. He has so many stories that explain so much, while still tastefully leaving mystery for the imagination, before LOTR trilogy or even the hobit. It's not a good -story- read, but the Silmarillian is awesome IMO. If you want lore, check it out! If you want a fleshed out, detailed story, don't worry about it lol. There are good stories in there, and I've read it multiple times with glee, but it's nothing that would grab my attention without my love for the hobit and LOTR books
This is why I love Tolkien, hell he has a whole chapter just about pipe-weed because he was heavily into smoking (tobacco ofc not weed, and back when it was kinda seen as a hobby which modern day has kinda turned into cigars and they made it all about money and exclusive to only those who pay and tip very generously)
@@thethriftytypewriteralso Saruman’s deceit is deeper rooted as he always had a disliking for Gandalf as when they arrived in middle earth, one of the oldest elf’s cirdan the shipwright gave him one of the three elven rings because cirdan sensed something in him
THE CHARGE OF THE ROHIRRIM is my favorite scene. “Ride to ruin! And the world’s ending!” followed by thousands of calvary chanting “DEATH!” over and over is raw as hell. This is an army that rides to war not because they will win but because they feel it is their duty to die fighting for what is good.
@@etevenatkowicz9745 I've always felt that too, like Aragorn has a banger of a speech, but how do you follow Theoden, looking death in the face, yet he manages to turn the tide of the most instrumental battle of the war of the ring. Aragorn just can't compete
Attacking the Oliphant's was a huge mistake, saving the people in the city was the most important thing! Like were these massive animals going to break into Minas Tirith? No they would have to wait outside kicking heels!
I always found Haldir’s death so heartbreaking and moving. It teaches us that, though “immortal,” Elves can still die and it shows that the battle against Sauron is worth a group of immortal beings risking their lives for. This is underscored in his final moment when he sees many of his dead brethren laying around him. I don’t think we are meant to connect with it as the death of a beloved character, it speaks to a larger dynamic and truth within the story.
@@yelsahblah3270 The elves, as immortals by age and unwithering, do not die so frequent so they don't have the same experience with death as we do. For us, mortals, death feels more personal, like an uprooting, it involves violence, void and desolation. The elves know death, understand death but they can't personalize the feeling exactly (as an example of this we can see Legolas. When Gandalf dies, the hobbits and Boromir in an extent, cry, scream, mourn, the feel, the violence of loss. They' ve felt it before and physified it. Legolas seems to don't know how to react exactly. He does make a mourning ceremony afterwards and he kneels to honour the memory of the death of the important figure Gandalf is, but it comes out of him almost as a necessity, like an act of tradition. He doesn't seem to personally feel the desperation of sudden loss. Elrond on the other hand who is half elf half human, knows better of how death feels. That's why when Arwen chooses a mortal life, he is more upset than just losing his daughter to marriage. He can better understand how death feels and how the fear of it feels because that's also a factor. If you know you cannot die of age, that there isn't an end, you don't fear as much. And that's why in my opinion Elves are better and so disciplined warriors, they can't exactly feel their possible end. Living is the usual thing for them. For us dying is the certain thing). So, Halldir, probably for the first time in his life, felt the real feel of sudden fear, a weird panic that comes as you experience something you've never experienced physically before. He knows what it is death and for the first time he feels it also.
Frodo is an incapable protagonist but that’s kind of the point. Tolkien was trying to show that even meager beings like a hobbit can stand up to evil and make a difference. His helplessness also emphasizes Frodo’s bravery and sacrifice. He’s not a demi god like Aaragon or an Angel like Gandalf he had no business on a battlefield but he’s the only one humble enough to hold the ring and he does this job in the face of sure destruction not for glory or for power but because it’s the right thing to do.
fun fact, Vigor broke his toe when he kicked that helmet. did you know that? well you do now. this is the first time it has ever been mentioned, I swear.
Frodo’s trial isn’t really meant to be physical, of course it is because he’s traveling the world but it’s a test of will more than anything. Hobbits are physically unassuming and even feeble but they for the most part are good natured and caring people who want to do good. Frodo’s journey is mental and emotional triumph, not about what physical feats he was able to overcome. The mental strain of bearing the ring is what makes him a great hero.
This was my comment I just put but wanted to add here lol Also borimer didnt fail. He died yes, but fail? No the fellowship succeeded. He lost his way because of the rings evil, same reason why frodo seems so...not quite useless but keeps sumbling and even eventually turning into a gollum/bilbo arc where he wants to keep the ring at the end. The ring had finally gotten its claws into him and he had resisted it before. The light in frodos eyes slowly goes away until he is in rivendell after the ring is destroyed. Which is a great story arc, without sam who saw the change in frodo. He would have kept it and the evil would have won. I am one of the few who love the hobbit trilogy and it still makes me sad that bilbo goes on to let the power & evil literally feed his life and take over his mind. And gandalf thrust this responsibility upon them because anyone else wouldnt be strong enough to resist, and it takes a toll on them. Even though they eradicated the villain they cannot return to their old ways and world. They give up their home, friends, and family to go to "heaven" after going through hell. I dont want to compare to Christianity, but instead good & evil, kindness & cruelty, selfishness & selflessness. Choosing what to fight for, and for this storytelling & character arc i find the lord of the rings is unparalleled and hype has died down, hobbit & rings of power arent as good but the legacy is not going anywhere and will only get more recognition as time goes on. Great video, props to your editor and TLOTR editors. Glad to watch happier to share my thoughts on this amazing video & series
As someone who is only seventeen I love the lord of the rings and watch the movies at least twice a year, and I will never forget them. They are my perfect trilogy and their legacy will never be tarnished to me
You remind me of myself 45 years ago, only in my case, I re-read the books once a year, absolutley love them still to this day!!! And now, yes, we have the movies!!! Amazing!!! Give the books a read one day!!!! ❤
I was the only one in this school group that didn't choose to read the hobbit, I loved it the most out of the group and went on to finish the Two Towers just so I could read Return of the King as an individual book reading project (I think I had started two towers earlier so I couldn't have it as my project this was like 5 years ago)
I can relate here. I'm an all around videographer/editor/filmmaker and Lord of the Rings (and the amazing making of documentaries that came with the extended edition DVDs) were one of my biggest inspirations getting started.
As an OG Tolkien fan it is very unsettling to see people judging new adaptions on how well they preserve the legacy of the Jackson movies instead of the original source material. I'm glad you end with 'nothing is going to tarnish the legacy of this trilogy', that is the best attitude tot take! But I do kind of get the defensiveness of some fans. That's what I feel when I see how much the movies have displaced the books as the Original in the fanbase, like this video. :)
I agree, I hope that eventually someone else will do a new LotR adaptation that is faithful but also quite different from PJ’s. Tolkien should not be the property of PJ!
Nothing is ever going to make the books less great. Besides anything but the Hobbit is just based on notes and sumarries so there's just not much finalized source material to commit to (and I have all the HoME books).
They quite literally don’t make movies like this trilogy anymore. Also, props for not putting a thousand ads all throughout your video. You deserve credit for resisting the biggest temptation of all.
Yes, there are plenty, but I don't think they are as magical or timeless. A lot of modern fantasy books would make great adaptations, like Stormlight Archive, for example, but I don't think they'll be as timeless or classic as a LOTR is. Part of that has to do with the source material itself. Most modern fantasy tries to subvert classical fantasy tropes, and there is nothing wrong with that, but it makes for a lesser experience when put to screen in my opinion. A GOT is certainly memorable and had a huge cultural impact, but it does really feel like a story of this time. Still awesome, but 50 years from now, it'll most likely be seen as an overly nihilistic story. @Noone-d6u
And let's not forget when aragorn turns to his army at the battle of the black gate, has tears in his eyes and simply says " FOR FRODO" AND CHARGES IN FIRST TO THE BATTLE. GIVES me the chills every time.
12:20 Aaaand here I stop. This here is why we will never get the follow up to Lord of the Rings we want, but instead dumbed down, flashy action spectacles. Modern audience just can't appreciate heroes who's qualities doesn't boil down to capacity for physical violence and that is is why Tolkien will never be done justice as that is the whole freaking core theme of his story and mythology. You get the franchise you deserve...
Yeah I'm going to be honest I've watched this guy quite a bit but the moment the frodo slander and doubt comes in I go out the back door. It takes a certain type of person to see between the lines of media and understand subtext. He's probably the same type of person that thinks that South Park is a fart jokes show. I don't think everybody has the ability to see things the way that they actually are though so we should give him some forgiveness and maybe educate them, help them see. If they still don't well they're missing out!
13:03 I will not stand for the frodo slander. No one else could carry the ring to the mountain of fire, basically sacrificing himself in the process body and soul. If you pay attention to the clues in the story, like Gandalf stating that the ring wants to be found, it explains Frodo being targeted by enemies, succumbing perilous terrain, or him appearing incompetent are all caused by the one ring influence. He carried the most powerful magical artifact, that constantly attacks its barer, psychologically and physically, across the world, even though frodo couldn't finish the job, he did deliver it to its doom. Idk how you could walk away from this story and not think frodo is a great hero if it's world.
Yep... there's also another layer to this.. about fate and how the Gollum played a role in the destruction of the ring, and how Frodo's choices regarding Gollum indirectly brought about the destruction of it. Me thinks that someone didn't bother to read the book or dig much past the obvious parts of the story. As I mentioned in another comment, I'm a little bit embarrassed for the creator of this video, even though there are a few good points. I'll give him that, but wow, he sure missed the point many times in this video.
It makes me angry when people who haven't read the books say that Sam is the real hero, if only people knew that in the books Sam almost sent everything to hell, because Gollum enters the spider's lair to tell you what brings him food and when. He leaves the lair Gollum sees Frodo and Gollum there comes a time when he regrets wanting to kill them, but just at that moment Sam wakes up and asks him if he is snooping and from then on Gollum always maintained his evil side until his death, Tolkien In one of his letters he said that if Sam had not said anything to Gollum at that moment, Gollum would have changed and even jumped into the void with the ring, another fact is that if Frodo had not let him live Gollum and I would have given him permission to be his guide if they had not reached Mordor and not even Sam would have lasted so long using the ring, only three characters Smigol (Gollum), Bilbo and Frodo have had that privilege, that's why I don't understand that There are people who say that Frodo is a useless character when they forget that he wears a ring around his neck that corrupts him and destroys him from the inside and another fact in the books is that the ring is destroyed because Gollum starts dancing so happily. when recovering the ring that ends up falling into the void without realizing it. At no point does Sam save Frodo from falling.
I saw ROTK at a matinee that opening friday, and I literally walked out of the theater feeling physically ill. My body had experienced every single emotion it's possible for a human to endure and each one at its peak level. seriously like I was kinda dazed walking to my car and had to sit there for a bit. I had never read the books so knew nothing about how it ended or who might die, etc. probably the most profound theater going experience of my life
31:15 You missed the entire point of Haldir's death. As he dies, we see the camera pan and we see his viewpoint. Men, elves, and orcs piled up on top of each other, all dead. It should make the audience feel hopeless for victory. It further resonates when Theoden says "So much death. What can man do against such reckless hate". We know exactly what he means because we've seen it.
When Rohan showed up in the 3rd movie and the king gave the speech I get chills and teary. Then when the elephants show up and the king, no hesitation, says reform the line.. CHARGE!! Bro, I get chills and want to cry seeing those scenes. They get me like a child again.
One of the big problems I've noticed with these newer fantasy adaptations is how much I just DO NOT care about any of the characters. That is one of the first things that I notice when watching these.
Modern writing struggles with a competent ending that a story leads up to. They start here, and try to figure out where they're going along the way with nothing to create tension in the form of expediency. This is why the countdown/timer is employed so often. Or time travel, or, or, or. Edit: One of my favorite reactions is hearing them say: "We don't have time for this right now".
@@terrylandess6072 Modern writing has multiple issues. 1) Many of them lack the experience to write compeling and relatable characters. 2) The involvement of Management and their ideas of how they want things to be done. (Alien 3 is the best example given its development hell) 3) Pushing naratives and check boxing list of things that must be included. 4) "not having enough time" is the inherent issue with the current system of doing fast and cheap moneycow movies/tv shows, filled with short deadlines, getting it done cheaply by often hiring multiple writers to just do an episode or just deliver few lines for a character and/or hiring inexperienced writers because its cheaper then having dedicated writer team (which is occuring issue with TV shows).
The Ring's power grows the closer it is to it's origin. It is at it's strongest inside mount doom and basically not a single soul in middle earth could have destroyed it willingly. That is the reason Sauron wasn't concerned about anybody even trying (and didn't bother to place guards at the volcano). Frodo's failure is understandable even if he was incredibly strong willed to resist the temptation and get it as far as he did. The destruction of the ring can be understood also as an accidental byproduct of the punishment for oath breaking. In middle earth swearing an oath is truly a heavy business. The men of the mountain broke theirs so Isildur was able to curse them into a state of a living death (and deny them their rest in peace). Gollum SWEARED to serve the master of the precious and swore it ON the precious. As we all know in the end "Smeagol lied..." and the precious betrayed him to his doom.
It’s wild to me that until now you haven’t seen the extended editions. Whereas I don’t think I’ve seen the theatrical versions since I was a little boy.
Most trilogies come out on a six year time table without fail, but are often mediocre at best. This trilogy was filmed, edited and released on a three year time table and was flawless. Unprecedented! How the hell did they accomplish that? Phenomenal!
Frodo's lack of physical strength and ambition are precisely what make him a perfect ring bearer. With such an accursed artifact that feeds off of the negative qualities of those who posses it in order to entice them; it is necessary to have a weak, innocent, & pure person carry it. That Frodo is an unassuming and powerless person is why his heart can withstand the evil of the ring longer than anyone else could.
There's a great scene in the book when Sam is wearing the One Ring, and he starts having all of these fantasies about becoming a great conqueror, but then he comes to his senses and remembers that he's just a simple Hobbit.
I made my own video on this, but Frodo not being an epic hero was kind of the whole point of the story. It is not the power of men that defeats darkness. Frodo's simple humility and willingness to do whatever he could to bring about the end of the ring was of far more worth that any of his companions' heroism. As awesome as Aragorn or Gandalf's heroic moments were, they could never have done what Frodo did. That was Boromir's weakness, thinking that their strength was enough to defeat the enemy. Tolkien's point, and what Gandalf, Galadriel, and Aragorn understood was that only God can vanquish evil, and He can use even the most humble and unassuming instruments. Those who rely on their own strength are those prone to corruption. Besides, even if Frodo's feat wasn't as dramatic as others' it's probably the most admirable. He willingly submitted himself to suffer the influence of the greatest evil on the planet until it completely destroyed him. The toll that took on his mind and soul is hard to imagine. Sam is awesome, and Frodo couldn't have finished the quest without him, but calling him the real hero is like saying your friend who supports you when you're overcoming an addiction or fighting through depression is the real hero of your story. Frodo deserves all the credit as the story's hero, even if Elijah Wood can occasionally be rather annoying.
I think you guys are both wrong. Yes Frodo is the hero but is Sam and everyone else are too. The fellowship entirely deserved the credit. Giving it to just an individual is unfair because everyone sacrifices. Anyway, great take tho
@killergrumpy1329 When I said "all the credit," I didn't meet that he and he alone deserves praise for his actions. Everyone in the fellowship was a hero, everyone had their part to play. I just meant that Frodo deserves all the credit of being considered the protagonist, which many say he didn't earn.
@@killergrumpy1329 Frodo deserves more credit than any other. Not only did he have the hardest job, he also didn't reap the rewards. Every other Fellowship mentor got a long and wonderful life after the War. Frodo got nothing but pain and travelling West, to hopefully maybe ease it. For that alone he's the #1 Hero of the story in my books.
The Lord of the Rings trilogy is truly lightning in a bottle. Sure, we've gotten fantastic adaptations before, for example, Jurassic Park-a fantastic book and movie. But we have never seen nor will we get another series like TLOR. And I think the most important detail in the entire making of the trilogy is pre-production. They knew exactly what they were making and how to do it long before filming began. And it was made out of love for the source material and not greed. Ultimately, having a concise and prepared production is what partially crushed the Hobbit movies. And I'd love to see your take on the trilogy. I love the hobbit movies, flaws and all and I'd love to see your opinion on them.
Lord of the Rings was brilliant, but so was Gladiator. So was Saving Private Ryan. So was The Last Samurai. The early 00s was hit after hit, masterpiece after masterpiece. And don't forget the first Matrix movie. Then you had music like Nickelback with How you remind me, Evanescence and Bring me to Life, Creed my sacrifice. The early 2000s were something else. You were either too young to experience it, or if you were over 20 you were fighting in Iraq. Age 15 would have been the sweet spot.
@ brother you missed my point lol. I’m talking about ADAPTATION and production of a famous book or series into a trilogy. When in my comment did I say there weren’t any other great movies in the 2000s?😂
One thing about LotR is that as great as Peter Jackson’s films are there’s a lot he had to leave out due to the sheer length of the books, it’s a shame that they seem to feel like his adaptations are untouchable and they can only make prequels and spinoffs to it, when there’s so many interesting ideas to still be mined from the source material. Ironically, I feel like the weird miniseries/seasonal tv show hybrid that the streaming landscape has created would actually be a really conducive medium for adapting the original trilogy fresh. They could do a season per book and really have time to do justice to the things they had to skip over or rush past in the movies but they wouldn’t have to face the pressures of making it episodic that they would’ve adapting it to television even just a few decades ago.
I was literally just thinking the same thing: I think LOTR would work better as a show than a movie. There’s more time to flesh out all the things that were left out of the movies.
Yes, that would be amazing! I would love to see someone else’s take, especially if we finally get: 1. Plucky, competent Frodo 2. Elrond who is “as kind as summer” 3. Book accurate Faramir and Denethor, more of Gondor in general
I doubt it will be able to be done well now. Look at RoP, after 2 seasons it still has worse world building and character development than three films. Everyone wants their own GoT phenomenon. TV has been ruined by streaming.
Cool analysis for a non-saturated geek - but you can't argue for the benefit of authenticity on the one hand, and then say that Eowyn and Faramir should have been at the final battle at the Black Gate. Whether their scenes in the Houses of Healing are great cinema or not, their arc is to represent the potential of the wounded Middle-Earth to heal from the conflict of the story. Taking that away from them both would make their stories meaningless.
Exactly! Their story is beautiful. It would have been ridiculous to have them fight in that battle. It's not like they avoided duty.. hell they were already war heroes...they still did want to fight alongside their friends, but they also were in the middle of healing themselves physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually. Tolkien really went into depth on what that perspective was like.. as probably only a real veteran would. If I had to critique these takes it would be that both of them looked to healthy and fit .. ready for another round of battle.. which they were not, in the book.
Frodo and Sam having trouble sleeping on the ground outside their war comfortable beds is important to the story, though. In the movies we're introduced to Frodo under a tree which tells us he loves spending time outdoors and he mentions he loves adventures like Bilbo does. Sam on the other hand is a Hobbit in every since of the word 'hobbit.' We are shown how uneasy he is about traveling. He's way outside his comfort zone. It's a stark contrast to where Frodo and Sam will be by the end of their quest. I'm sorry but, the fact you said it isn't necessary to the story is ridiculous and there's a lot you harp on without understanding The Lord of the Rings.
There's a lot of nuance (and obvious things) that flew right past him. Which is fine, but if you giving a lecture/critique on LOTR, one probably should do one's homework and research the basics.
Frodo does NOT deserve the bad rap; Tolkien himself said that this was the view of "simple minds". The fact that he carried the Ring as far as he did was a miracle of endurance. To willingly destroy the Ring is impossible, so it's very unfair to judge him for that. Frodo wrecked his mind, body, and soul to do his part, which saved the free people of Middle-earth. Put some respect on his name haha
@mistasomen It seems that Gandalf suspects that fate (Eru Ilúvatar) will have a role in it, which it does; it's said that Eru had a hand in Gollum slipping. From the beginning, it's recognized as a pretty desperate quest, but one that must be attempted anyway.
funny bc in Two Towers, Merry and Pipin's storyline with Treebeard is one of my favorite storylines in the whole saga. It feels so relaxed and magical, I really enjoy it and I wish there was a 3 hour movie with just them walking and talking
Frodo is the man, his lack of martial ability is kind of what makes him awesome, he perserveres despite nothing but bad things happening and there being no reason to even believe he can win
Peter Jackson has said there are still hours and hours of unreleased footage from the original trilogy. All we need is a new extended-extended edition every decade or so.
Gandalf is basically an angel so he was sent back to finish his goal. Because he is so beast he isn't supposed to interfere in a lot of things and it's why he doesn't just whip out magic all the time.
This guy is a moron frankly. Anyone who watches these films and comes away babbling about "Sam is the true hero of the story" might as well wear a sign that say "I traded half my brain for fireworks. Me like boom boom!".
The movies are wonderful, especially the extended version. My favorite scene is the lighting of the beacons of Gondor. But no mater how great it is to watch them, nothing compares to reading the books. I read the trilogy every year on average. It is magical.
What Tolkien was thinking when he named Sauron and Saruman is that he was an expert in philology and etymology, and he literally created several languages, written and spoken, for his mythology. Every single name of a person, place, or object in Middle Earth adheres to the rules of the languages he invented. Imagine being a "content creator" with a lukewarm IQ, and having the audacity to question the decisions of a linguistics expert. What a world we live in...
Alright, Galdalf is basically a demigod. He is one of the Maiar, created by the Valar (gods), to structure the Earth after Ilúvatar (God) created it. But some of the Maiar are tasked with stopping Sauron, and they become the 5 wizards. So, Gandalf is sent back after he dies fighting the Balrog because his task isn't finished, yet. Gwaihir picks him up from the top of the mountain and takes him to Lothlorien where Galadriel clothes him in white and sends him on his way.
I made it about 13 minutes in. But with the “they had everything planned out as opposed to Pirates” show how little you know of what you speak, and of the changes made *during filming* (good changes btw), with the “Frodo didn’t no nothing” and “Elrond’s sour cuz Aragorn’s banging his daughter”, betrays a lack of insight and respect for the material which makes pretty much everything you say meaningless. I’m glad you like the movies, for your own sake, I love them too, but I can’t for the life of me figure out why since most of what I’ve heard so far are digs on the characters. Was hoping for something else, I guess.
I think my only real disagreement with you is your characterization of Frodo. I agree he is no great action hero in a traditional sense, notwithstanding a few explicit acts of heroism in the movies and few more depicted in the books. But the huge takeaway from his character is his ability to show restraint in the face of truly terrible power. The act of bearing the burden of carrying the ring alone would certainly corrupt the heart of any man or beast almost immediately. Think of Sméagol for instance. Frodo and Sméagol/gollum have intertwined fates for that very reason. They are two sides of the same coin. I would argue that Frodo is among the greatest of the heroes even if at times he can appear a bit meager and weak in the movies. Also a quick note to clarify. You had mentioned the ring accidentally ended up on Frodos finger during the prancing pony scene. I think it is rather suggested (granted a bit more explicitly in the book) that the ring has a mind of its own. Some mysterious power over its own fate. This is why he is so tempted to wear the ring when the Nazgûl are near. The ring wants to be found! Banger video though! Always love to hear a fresh perspective on the movies.
Thank you! I’ve been wanting a LOTR video from you for a while! I just did a rewatch of the trilogy, and I love these movies so much. My favorite films of all time.
One aspect I love so much about Tolkien‘s writing is that death and decay are build in and acknowledged. Most fictional universes that are hopeful are so in a short sighted way, but like in real life, everything must eventually die and pass away. People who can’t accept this in fiction and real life go through great lengths to gain a form of immortality, but end up doing a lot of harm… either to themselves or others. I love that the book features the appendices and I can read how all of the characters died, like a real history. Tolkien didn’t shy away from that fact and neither did some cjreators like Geprge Lucas, who was to introduce a lot deeper philosophical elements in his planned sequels about symbiosis and how we think we are running the show when in fact we aren’t really needed.
One reason you might've failed to understand the importance of them taking a "Slow" approach for the Woods Lothlorien scene is because of the rightful impact a MAJOR character death can have with an effect on the entire fellowship and later follows with the breaking of the fellowship due to the loss of Gandalf. Obviously some people take more interest in movies with the go go go pacing at all times and with tons of reviews of the first movie sharing that sentiment it is hardly a secret that it has the slowest progression out of the three, but when trying to really convey a proper change in the narrative you need proper shift in pacing. Now I may be wrong in saying the death was warranted a good slowing down section of the movie, but it worked out for me and a lot of other people and I think that is a wonderful thing. As a closing statement i'd like to say no matter what version of the movie you watched so long as you enjoyed the journey that's all that matters.
I appreciate that you defended the theatrical cuts. Sometimes, online discourse of LOTR is just an endless circle-jerk for the extended editions, which are beautiful and should be viewed at least once by hardcore fans, but they're not the be-all, end-all. The theatrical cuts are very well-cut movies that get all the important themes and characterizations. The extended cuts are for when you really want to soak in the world a little more and get the additional lore.
I haven’t watched the theatrical versions since the original DVD release. As soon as the extended versions came out, they’re the only versions I’ve watched and I watch the whole trilogy at least once a year. I can’t even remember which bits are extended and which aren’t anymore.
@@SunnyLovetts What should be illegal is the endless circle-jerking of the extended editions online. Yes, they're fine movies that way, but they're also fine in their theatrical cuts, which this UA-camr rightly pointed out are the cuts that won awards.
I promise you, the legeacy is not dying, most people haven't watched any of these shitty fanfics made by amazon, everyone will remember the original trilogy as Lord of the Rings and nothing else Don't worry, Tolkien will live on
@@PGTRegard Her character arch is shorter than in the books, but it is pretty accurate. "She was proud, strong, and selfwilled, as were all the descendants of Finwë save Finarfin; and like her brother Finrod, of all her kin the nearest to her heart, she had dreams of far lands and dominions that might be her own to order as she would without tutelage....From her earliest years she had a marvellous gift of insight into the minds of others, but judged them with mercy and understanding, and she withheld her goodwill from none save only Fëanor. In him she perceived a darkness that she hated and feared, though she did not perceive that the shadow of the same evil had fallen upon the minds of all the Noldor, and upon her own." (Unfinished Tales) "Even after the merciless assault upon the Teleri and the rape of their ships, though she fought fiercely against Feanor in defence of her mother's kin, she did not turn back. Her pride was unwilling to return, a defeated suppliant for pardon; but now she burned with desire to follow Feanor with her anger to whatever lands he might come, and to thwart him in all ways that she could." (Unfinished Tales). "...she was personally proud and rebellious and wished for freedom". (Nature of Middle-earth) "[Galadriel] was then of Amazon disposition...” (The Letters of J.R.R.Tolkien, Letter 348). Tolkien only and exclusively used the term amazon for warrior women ( Measse, Haleth and Galadriel). He explicitly said that e.g. Eowyn was not an amzon. "She looked upon the Dwarves also with the eye of a commander, seeing in them the finest warriors to pit against the Orcs" - (J.R.R. Tolkien, Unfinished Tales, The History of Galadriel and Celeborn’). This quote is Second Age, from the time of the Forging of the Rings of Power. "It was not until two long ages more had passed, when at last all that she [Galadriel] had desired in her youth came to her hand, the Ring of Power and the dominion of Middle-earth of which she had dreamed, that her wisdom was full grown and she rejected it, and passing the last test departed from Middle-earth for ever." (Unfinished Tales). Note Tolkien's choice of words. It's not THE test, it's the LAST test.
@@anni.68 LMFAO!!! You're joking right?!? RoP is ANTITHETICAL to every message and the very worldview Tolkien espoused and infused throughout his mythology. To be sure, Jackson marred them as well, but for the most part the tone and themes remained intact. Amazon's is an hatefic and an inversion of everything Tolkien wrote on the same level and even greater as what fathead Ryan Johnson did to Luke Skywalker.
My take on the extended editions is that once you've seen them, the theatrical editions feel like a waste of time. There are some scenes in the extended editions that are 10% Tolkien and 90% Jackson, but without those scenes, the theatrical editions are very choppy. You see things like Gollum choking for no reason, and the Voice of Saruman scene is missing. In the Return of the King theatrical movie, Frodo and Sam seem to be teleporting. In the extended edition, they actually journey to Orodruin. Also, the scene with Denethor, Boromir, and Faramir all together is my favorite. Without it, it is hard to see Boromir as Denethor's son.
I can tell you didn't read the book. From Elrond and Aragorn's family tree (which explains a lot) to the character arcs of Faramir and Eowyn, to what happened to Saruman, there is SO much more going on there that you can't see by just watching the films. I'm actually a little embarrassed for you.. before making assumptions or saying a sequence is bad, it might be good to do your research. (I cringed a few times) I can see your point as far as how a film can be different from a book, and I loved both for different reasons, but yeah, it's obvious you didn't read the book or really get some of the main points of the source material.
You clearly do care about these movies, and kudos for putting the effort in to make this video, but you’ve opened yourself up to a lot of criticism you could have very easily avoided with a few quick fact checks, (the sword Elrond brings is called Anduril, not Arondil, its a small detail but a pretty important one and thats the kinda thing that had me very nearly check out, and im sure im not the only one) a bit of research, (subjects like magic, and the difference between a hard and soft magic system as well as gandalf’s purpose in middle earth being to guide the free peoples through wisdom rather than lead them through strength, hence the kindly old man appearance) and some deeper thought about some of what you’ve said (Aragorn fighting Sauron absolutely does undermine the point of not just Aragorn’ bravery but also that of the men who marched with him, and removing it was categorically the right choice, not to mention the movie establishes that Sauron cant take physical form without the ring) Im glad you made this video, and it is a bold thing to do without true conviction because of how important a piece of literary history it is, but i do think you’ve let yourself down in a few places
Yep. I dipped as soon as he showed he had no understanding of the nature of Gandalf. Pointless listening to essentially a lecture by someone so ill informed. There are plenty of Tolkien scholars out there
I did too. For such a fan of Aragorn, and someone presenting themselves as an expert (critic) there's some gaping holes in his understanding of the Tolkien Universe and its characters. And I'm not even that much of a nerd.
@@innercircle341 Indeed... I love Jess of the Shire and In Deep Geek. I actually learn something about the books and films on other YT channels and I think I'll skip this one.
Get off the extended editions, the fact that it can be that long and still keep my attention speaks to how well they are done. They could've added more even, the books are long and detailed why would you want to cut that?
I really enjoy the audiobook by Phil Dragash. It has music and voices like the movies and sound effects, but it has the text of the books. And it's a free download. I feel like fans of the movie trilogy could get some satisfaction from it. If you want to know the book text but with the flavor of the movies.
I say this as someone who was fine with how they wrote Faramir in the movies: I get why some folks are annoyed by his being tempted by the Ring at all in the movie (or, really -- tempted to do something to gain his father's approval; it's pretty unclear whether he's actually tempted *by the Ring*). He's much more incorruptible in the books, and that's really important to a lot of people. (My personal feeling is that his portrayal in the books would not have worked that well on screen; and I understand the storytelling problem they were trying to solve. As I said, I feel like the movie suggests more that he was tempted to bring the Ring to his father to gain his father's approval -- and, like Boromir, thought it would help Gondor -- than that he, himself, was tempted by the Ring. So for me, he maintains his virtue, while going through an interesting arc that helps the on-screen story.)
I'll never forget being in 5th grade, reading the appendices and legitimately questioning if it was real history that was lost or something. For like 5 minutes 😂 I love the extended versions, but they could have fit Tom in somehow. Even just in passing. Anyway great video I agreed 100%
"Never thought I'd die fighting side by side with an elf" "What about 'Side by side with a freind'?" "... Aye... I could do that..." I cry every time I watch that scene
You are complaining about scenes in the movies that were ALSO IN THE BOOKS. The ghost army was in the books. Eowyn and Faramir met and fell in love IN THE BOOKS. You even said that Eowyn and Faramir should have been at the Black Gate, but they weren’t at the Black Gate in the books either. They were both injured in battle and Eowyn was suffering from the black breath of the Witch King. Aragorn healed them both, but they were UNABLE to go back into battle. So their scenes were NOT unnecessary. It gave their characters closure.
100% agree! Plus, their story is far more interesting than the typical endings of action, war, and love stories. This was a perfect "well then what?" story, much like the Hobbits returning to the Shire to defend it. Tolkien's work is so cool because it doesn't read like a movie with the usual plot devices. It reads like real history and biography, along with real human perspectives and depth.
In the books there are important points to the scene with Aragorn confronting Sauron through the Palantir. They are two fold. Firstly, as a Numenorean and of a direct line right the way back to Elros (Elrond's brother who chose to be human rather than Elf) the Palantirs were a gift to his people and his by right, so wrenching it from Sauron's control was a direct blow to Sauron's power and pride. Without speaking a word, he challenged and taunted him. The purpose of this was to goad Sauron in making a hasty strike against him - and keeping the Eye well away from Frodo and Sam. The second was intelligence gathering, using the Palantir's power to 'see' such things as approaching reinforcements - something left out in the movie anyway. The relationship between Faramir and Eowyn in the Houses Of Healing is from the books and that part of the books gives the viewpoint from those confined to Minas Tirith as Aragorn leads his combined forces to the gates of Mordor.
YES! The creator of this video missed the point in many places. These were two. He seems to know very little about Aragorn, for being such a fan. And the whole point of the character arc of Eowyn and Faramir is that they were grappling with not being able to fight with their friends/comrades and what all this meant. It's not just a simple little story written for people who just want simple entertainment and simple characters. Tolkien writes from the perspective of someone who has actually been through a war. I seem to remember that Tolkien most closely identifies with Faramir.. something along the lines of "I do not love fighting/weapons but the things that they protect." I think he also missed the point of Eowyn's character arc.. which didn't end with her going back into battle. He really, really, missed the whole point with Eowyn.
Have you ever read the books and the other stories that support them? You don't say specifically in the video (at least that I caught). If you haven't it's entirely worth doing it at least once. Yes, it's just as much of a journey but it gives you the proper understanding of why most of the extended scenes are there and what true purpose they serve. Most of it is character arc resolution, but it will help with your "why is this even here?" questions. This was a great video Thrifty. I hope you take the chance to delve into the larger world of Middle Earth. It's so worth it!
Your channel stumbled on my suggested page and man am I glad I watched. All your videos have been such a joy and watching this breakdown of my favorite movies of all time was so good! Props to you man!
This guy has obviously never read the book. The book gives you a much greater appreciation of the characters, the stakes, the setting, the great history, etc. For one thing, Peter Jackson drastically altered important characters, and for the life of me I can't imagine why. In the book, Aragorn hasn't lost faith in the race of men and isn't afraid of his lineage and his role as future king. He knows he is the best man for the job; not out of arrogance but because he truly is a great leader, and he's just waiting until the pieces are in place for him to assume the throne. He has spent decades (prior to the start of the story) leading the Dunedain, protecting the Shire, fighting with the Rohirrim and Gondorians, and subverting Sauron's plans wherever he can. He is a mighty warrior, a loyal friend, a wise leader, and a faithful betrothed to Arwen. He is not weak, indecisive, apprehensive, or afraid. Faramir (Boromir's brother) in the book is not at all like he is in the movie. Faramir is younger, but wiser and stronger-in-character. He is a friend of Gandalf's and studied with the wizard. So, when Frodo meets Faramir he is rightly afraid that Faramir's going to try to take the ring, just like Boromir did. But Faramir says, "Not if I found the ring lying on the highway would I take it." He later gives Frodo and Sam provisions for their journey and sends them on their way. He does NOT waylay them and force them to travel with him to Gondor. That is the very last thing Faramir would ever do! In the book, Gimli is a stout warrior, loyal to his companions and brave in battle. He's a proud dwarf and sometimes lets his temper get the best of him; but he's also a lover of great beauty and has great respect for Galadriel and Legolas. He has a great character arc in the book, and you don't see nearly enough of that in the movies. Peter Jackson turned him into a fool, a jester. Comic relief. My point is that, while I understand the necessity of making certain changes in order to adapt a book to screen, these changes are completely unnecessary and only serve to undermine Tollkien's genius by rewriting his characters. The movies would have been better served by portraying the characters as they were originally written.
In my lowest moments. I reflect on fiction. And these series in particular. To quote Gandalf "Perhaps it is because I am afraid, and he gives me courage" the emotion these films and works of literature give to the audience resonate through time. From courage, to doubt, righteousness, and above all humor. You did an amazing job surmising this series and what it means. Enjoy your work, keep it up!
Interesting how right after you say, "Good luck disagreeing with Tolkien himself," you then proceed to do so by wanting Faramir and Eowyn at the Black Gate. That being said, great review my guy!
As time has past, Theoden has become my favorite character of these movies. After Saruman´s spell is broken, he turns from a mourning father to reluctant protector of he´s people to a real hero king. It always gets me when Theoden decides to ride with Aragorn against the org army, just to give he´s people a little more time to burrow through the caves into safety, without even knowing that Gandalf promised to return with help, only Aragorn knows this.
I don’t think the legacy is dying. I think the blatant commercialization of it is dying. I still firmly believe Tolkien’s works will thrive for generations to come.
Saw the trilogy in cinemas again a few weeks ago. (Extended). Says something that films as long as these still left me wanting more. Not just being a fan but genuinely believe the extended versions are better and I only saw them properly a few months ago. They'll never get old.
I remember being grumpy that Shelob was in the third movie rather than the second, and absolutely indignant that Tom wasnt in the first. I was in middle school and not very smart. I also barely read the books from what I remember, the movies were the only thing keeping me invested, so really I had no business complaining.
I believe many people take the story too realistically and forget a man created this and had story/character beats to express. Intricately crafted. Living in a world where everything needs an explanation which gets torched if they don't agree. :D
I like how Gollum isn't really focused on until the second film, leaving the first film free to focus on Boromir. If the films tried to explore two conflicted characters at once, it could've been messy. Thankfully Gollum takes center stage right after Boromir exits.
I agree about the extended edition. I'm a massive Tolkien fan, but never get why people recommend the extended for new fans. There are a lot of great scenes but also a lot of bloat and silly stuff. It feels like people who never read the books want to feel superior by hyping up the extended all the time. The pacing of the theatrical versions is perfect. Also, yeah the extended scene of Frodo and Sam seeing the elves if probably the most Tolkien esque scene in the movies.
Totally agree. I enjoy the extended editions somewhat, but when I really want to sit down and watch this trilogy with my full attention, I always choose the theatrical versions. The fact that Eowyn’s entire arc has been watered down to “girl who make bad stew for Aragorn” by some of the “fans” of these movies is one of the worst things the extended editions did.
I have to disagree with you completely about Aragorn fighting Sauron. They would never have had a one-on-one fight because that was not what their struggle was about. Sauron's power was not in physical fights, but in mental domination, specifically by destroying all faith, trust, and hope. Equally, Aragorn's ultimate power against Sauron is his ability to resist, and to inspire that resistance in others. Sauron spent years creating division and despair among the various races and kingdoms so they would never be strong enough to defeat him. The ring amplified this power, but he never used it as weapon to win a physical fight. It was not Aragorn that Sauron feared, it was the power of the King of Gondor as a symbol that would unite all the free people of Middle Earth and give them the morale and mental strength to fight back against his influence. This is what gives this trilogy so much raw emotional impact - power is not about who can physically overpower who, it's about mental grit, hope, and selfless sacrifice to protect those you love. To reduce that final battle down to a goodie and a baddie whacking each other with swords would have completely destroyed the beautiful, complex message Tolkien was sending. You know why this trilogy succeeded so well when other adaptations have failed so miserably? It (mostly) stuck to his very unique themes and fundamental truths and did not deteriorate into the cheap, shallow visuals and standardised, one-dimensional devices that most movies do. The moment you veer away from Tolkien's voice, you fail, because you have jolted the audience out of Middle Earth and into the Hollywood machine. And that's why Tolkien fans so resent the travesties shoe-horned into other productions by people who either don't understand the story or arrogantly think they can do it better.
Speak for yourself! I do not know what "travesties shoe-horned into other productions by people who either don't understand the story or arrogantly think they can do it better" you are talking about, but Rings of Power e.g. is in tone and themes closer to the books than the movies. Born of Hope, Horn of Gondor, Hunt for Gollum and Dagor Dagorath are also pretty good. And yes, I do know Tolkien's books. All of them. So, don't pretend that your opinion represents other Tolkien fans.
They don’t make movies like this anymore. I remember TLOTR and Harry Potter being the TITANS of movies at the time! Like you were excited for the new movies, the books and merch lol
Hot take perhaps, but we see the ring growing in power little by little as it nears Mordor and begins to increase its influence over Frodo. There are great hints for this throughout the movies. We see the difference in Frodo's behavior and that the ring is physically growing more and more heavy with each step that brings it closer to Mt. Doom. The real reason for why the ring affects the people around it so much, is because it contains Sauron's greatest power of all - his force of will. Sauron is actually very intelligent and cunning, although much of it is omitted in the movies and even in the books. To get what he wants, he can persuade others, barter with them, blackmail, threaten or even torture them if needed. However, those in his immediate presence, he can simply compel to act according to his will. We see his will act through the Palantir as well. He uses it briefly against Pippin and later on Aragorn. Even the lesser Maia can not resist his will, as can be heard from Saruman. He himself puts it best in his conversation with Gandalf in the first movie: "You did not seriously think that a hobbit could contend with the will of Sauron... There are none who can." Implying that he himself tried, failed and fell under his domain. Gandalf, being the wiser of the two, does not even dare to try. When Frodo holds the ring up over the edge at Mt. Doom and contemplates its destruction, the ring is at its strongest point throughout the entire story. I do not believe that there is anyone or anything in all of Middle Earth that could've won that battle of wills against Sauron and destroyed the ring by choice.
The entire point of the success of these films was the production crew deciding to leave their feelings out and to work as faithfully to the source material as possible. When those rules are bent (The Hobbit) or broken (Rings of Power), you get subpar stories and something much closer to a skin suit than any sort of faithful or grounded representation.
In what way exactly were the "rules broken" for Rings of Power? Can you give me some examples, including the appropriate book references? Why exactly do you believe that Lord of the Rings - which is considered a rather unfaithful adaptation - is a more faithful and grounded representation of the books than Rings of Power? No personal opinion, please, only book related reasons.
@ They do. They have the rights for the appendices of LOTR which includes a timeline of the events of the Second Age, and they get case to case permission from the Tolkien Estate e.g. for the use of the name Annatar. Apart from that they did something most people have not considered: The read Tolkien's books :) Why worry about expensive or unavailable rights if you can just _read_ the books? That's why the show does not contradict the character descriptions and the tone and themes of the books.
It's easily the best trilogy ever made. It's not even close. All 3 are 9/10 minimum. No other trilogy has that. Indiana Jones and Star wars are probably the closest and both of them have one movie in the trilogy that can't hold a candle to any of the Lord of the rings movies.
The Lord of the Rings trilogy itself will always be a timeless masterpiece. No matter what other stories they decide to tell with differing levels of quality, they'll never ruin my love for the films.
I’m not by any means an expert, but I’ll try to explain my understanding of Gandalf’s death and return using layman’s terms. My understanding is that Gandalf and the other wizards are like angels but they have been given physical bodies so that they can walk among mortals and guide them, abiding by certain rules and limits given to them by their superiors. The Balrog is basically a fallen angel of a similar spiritual level as Gandalf. When they fought, Gandalf won but his physical body gave out and died. That would have been the end of his time on Middle Earth but God intervened and sent his spirit back in a new body with more power to be a leading figure in the fight against Sauron. In a literary sense, I’m afraid I can’t provide any insight for Tolkien’s reasoning. It might have been as simple as just wanting a favorite character back, or it could have been a need for a sign of hope in a war that was constantly going against the good guys. If he ever elaborated on the reason he brought Gandalf back I’m sure someone here will inform us (and probably already has). Edit: I am aware there’s way more involved here, this was just an attempt to give a general overview of what happened in a simple way.
I haven't even seen the original version since I saw it in theaters. I always watch the Extended Edition because they just have so much character development and I love that.
Yes! And they all have a purpose. I find it weird that someone who obviously hasn't read the books (The creator of this video) thinks that he knows what scenes are needed and which ones are not.
Wizards Lore for dummies: -God (called Eru Illuvatar) created lesser Gods dedicated to controlling one aspect of existence. These together created all parts of the World and beings. One of these Gods called Morgoth created the concept of Evil and among other thigns the Balrog. Eru Illuvatar sent the Astari (essentially angels) to fight him but one of them called Sauron joined him. The forces of good defeated Morgoth but Sauron, being an immortal god being, couldn't die. So Eru sent the other Astari to Middle Earth as wizards to fight him. Because Eru wanted peace and not to get more Astari drunk with power like Sauron, he turned them into fragile old men, and made their bodies mortal. But because their souls are immortal once they die, they go back to Eru Illuvatar and he can revive them as will. Gandalf got to be revived and promoted to be the new leader of the Astari, the white wizard. Saruman did not get revived as punishment for joining Sauron. Sauron only got destroyed because he put his soul in the Ring then making it as mortal as the ring.
That last line, about how the love you have for stories don't die because more is added, but because you never truly loved it to begin with, really resonated. A very simple but profoundly meaningful sentiment that you found words to express
I watched the extended edition and was confused why Gandalf came back so I googled it and (I've never read the books) what I saw was a forum answer saying something like the God of the Lord of the Rings universe was like, "yo, they need some major help so I'm going to upgrade your gear and stats so get ready for round 2" and that's how he was reborn. That's what I understood anyway.
Frodo isn’t meant to be a warrior and thats what makes his character so good. He’s so innocent and literally gets mind tortured by this powerful weapon. It shows how brave he is taking that ring all the way to mordor with 0 experience
Exactly
In a way, he's stronger than Boromir and Isildur. He's able to resist the ring for months, whereas Boromir tempted by the ring before the Fellowship is even formed, and Isildur succumbed to it almost as soon as he received it.
Yes. Frodo is the greatest because he is the least in size, strength, and status yet he is the one who CAN carry the world's burden with his resistance and persistence.
Frodo is more competent in the book
@IzunaSlap and Gollum and every member of the fellowship, including Gandalf and Sam.
21:50 Not sure how much you already know, but Gandalf and the other Istari (wizards) are Maiar. The divine beings of the world include the Valar (basically gods) and the Maiar (essentially angels). The five wizards were Maiar sent from Valinor, the realm of the gods, to Middle Earth after Sauron's defeat in the forms of unassuming old men to act as guides to the nations of men and keep an eye on Sauron's presence in the world. Gandalf's physical form was killed fighting the balrog and his soul returned to Valinor, where the Valar sent him back to Middle Earth with an upgrade and promotion to Saruman's former position as the head of the Istari. Hope that helps.
Thank you! It does help!
Technically, a being called Eru (basically God) sent Gandalf back.
If your a Lore junkie, Tolkien is absolutely amazing. He has so many stories that explain so much, while still tastefully leaving mystery for the imagination, before LOTR trilogy or even the hobit. It's not a good -story- read, but the Silmarillian is awesome IMO. If you want lore, check it out! If you want a fleshed out, detailed story, don't worry about it lol. There are good stories in there, and I've read it multiple times with glee, but it's nothing that would grab my attention without my love for the hobit and LOTR books
This is why I love Tolkien, hell he has a whole chapter just about pipe-weed because he was heavily into smoking (tobacco ofc not weed, and back when it was kinda seen as a hobby which modern day has kinda turned into cigars and they made it all about money and exclusive to only those who pay and tip very generously)
@@thethriftytypewriteralso Saruman’s deceit is deeper rooted as he always had a disliking for Gandalf as when they arrived in middle earth, one of the oldest elf’s cirdan the shipwright gave him one of the three elven rings because cirdan sensed something in him
You’ll never see a trilogy as perfect as this
At least until Winnie the Pooh Blood and Honey 3 comes out.
Maybe the original trilogy of star wars
Star wars 7-9
indiana jones
To those of you who said star wars.. you are so beyond smoked out I don't even want to address you. 😂
THE CHARGE OF THE ROHIRRIM is my favorite scene. “Ride to ruin! And the world’s ending!” followed by thousands of calvary chanting “DEATH!” over and over is raw as hell. This is an army that rides to war not because they will win but because they feel it is their duty to die fighting for what is good.
That speech is so good that Aragorn's speech later in the movie is actually kind of overshadowed
@@etevenatkowicz9745 I've always felt that too, like Aragorn has a banger of a speech, but how do you follow Theoden, looking death in the face, yet he manages to turn the tide of the most instrumental battle of the war of the ring. Aragorn just can't compete
@ArchAngel420 Yes!
So did the japanese in WW2 and europeans in WW2.
Without victory such mindset is just collective selfdelete.
Attacking the Oliphant's was a huge mistake, saving the people in the city was the most important thing! Like were these massive animals going to break into Minas Tirith? No they would have to wait outside kicking heels!
I always found Haldir’s death so heartbreaking and moving. It teaches us that, though “immortal,” Elves can still die and it shows that the battle against Sauron is worth a group of immortal beings risking their lives for. This is underscored in his final moment when he sees many of his dead brethren laying around him. I don’t think we are meant to connect with it as the death of a beloved character, it speaks to a larger dynamic and truth within the story.
Never saw it like that but that’s a great point!
That’s such a poignant scene.😢
That was exactly how I viewed it too. That the loss of his experiences and his life was such a cruel blow. A lifetime snuffed put in an instant.
@@yelsahblah3270 The elves, as immortals by age and unwithering, do not die so frequent so they don't have the same experience with death as we do. For us, mortals, death feels more personal, like an uprooting, it involves violence, void and desolation. The elves know death, understand death but they can't personalize the feeling exactly (as an example of this we can see Legolas. When Gandalf dies, the hobbits and Boromir in an extent, cry, scream, mourn, the feel, the violence of loss. They' ve felt it before and physified it. Legolas seems to don't know how to react exactly. He does make a mourning ceremony afterwards and he kneels to honour the memory of the death of the important figure Gandalf is, but it comes out of him almost as a necessity, like an act of tradition. He doesn't seem to personally feel the desperation of sudden loss. Elrond on the other hand who is half elf half human, knows better of how death feels. That's why when Arwen chooses a mortal life, he is more upset than just losing his daughter to marriage. He can better understand how death feels and how the fear of it feels because that's also a factor. If you know you cannot die of age, that there isn't an end, you don't fear as much. And that's why in my opinion Elves are better and so disciplined warriors, they can't exactly feel their possible end. Living is the usual thing for them. For us dying is the certain thing). So, Halldir, probably for the first time in his life, felt the real feel of sudden fear, a weird panic that comes as you experience something you've never experienced physically before. He knows what it is death and for the first time he feels it also.
Remember that elves don't really die.
Frodo is an incapable protagonist but that’s kind of the point. Tolkien was trying to show that even meager beings like a hobbit can stand up to evil and make a difference. His helplessness also emphasizes Frodo’s bravery and sacrifice. He’s not a demi god like Aaragon or an Angel like Gandalf he had no business on a battlefield but he’s the only one humble enough to hold the ring and he does this job in the face of sure destruction not for glory or for power but because it’s the right thing to do.
fun fact, Vigor broke his toe when he kicked that helmet. did you know that? well you do now. this is the first time it has ever been mentioned, I swear.
I had no idea! What a crazy and obscure bit of trivia that is!
No way!!!!! 😮😮
Yup, there's an interview with him where he says it.
The joke that this is an overused anecdote is now more prevalent than people retelling the anecdote straight.
Oh yes Vigor The Carpathian
Frodo’s trial isn’t really meant to be physical, of course it is because he’s traveling the world but it’s a test of will more than anything. Hobbits are physically unassuming and even feeble but they for the most part are good natured and caring people who want to do good.
Frodo’s journey is mental and emotional triumph, not about what physical feats he was able to overcome. The mental strain of bearing the ring is what makes him a great hero.
This was my comment I just put but wanted to add here lol
Also borimer didnt fail. He died yes, but fail? No the fellowship succeeded. He lost his way because of the rings evil, same reason why frodo seems so...not quite useless but keeps sumbling and even eventually turning into a gollum/bilbo arc where he wants to keep the ring at the end. The ring had finally gotten its claws into him and he had resisted it before. The light in frodos eyes slowly goes away until he is in rivendell after the ring is destroyed. Which is a great story arc, without sam who saw the change in frodo. He would have kept it and the evil would have won.
I am one of the few who love the hobbit trilogy and it still makes me sad that bilbo goes on to let the power & evil literally feed his life and take over his mind. And gandalf thrust this responsibility upon them because anyone else wouldnt be strong enough to resist, and it takes a toll on them.
Even though they eradicated the villain they cannot return to their old ways and world. They give up their home, friends, and family to go to "heaven" after going through hell. I dont want to compare to Christianity, but instead good & evil, kindness & cruelty, selfishness & selflessness. Choosing what to fight for, and for this storytelling & character arc i find the lord of the rings is unparalleled and hype has died down, hobbit & rings of power arent as good but the legacy is not going anywhere and will only get more recognition as time goes on. Great video, props to your editor and TLOTR editors. Glad to watch happier to share my thoughts on this amazing video & series
"Soft as butter they can be, and yet sometimes as tough as old tree-roots"
@@C00T47no one alive could have resisted the ring better than Frodo by the end. Yes he fell. Anyone else would have too.
As someone who is only seventeen I love the lord of the rings and watch the movies at least twice a year, and I will never forget them. They are my perfect trilogy and their legacy will never be tarnished to me
You remind me of myself 45 years ago, only in my case, I re-read the books once a year, absolutley love them still to this day!!! And now, yes, we have the movies!!! Amazing!!! Give the books a read one day!!!! ❤
Even at the age of like 10 I was obsessed with LOTR, I was maybe even younger and probably shouldn't have watched it lol
@@HuemorDGAP I have read them too and enjoyed them quite a bit!
@samuelstuart3856 wonderful!!!
I was the only one in this school group that didn't choose to read the hobbit, I loved it the most out of the group and went on to finish the Two Towers just so I could read Return of the King as an individual book reading project (I think I had started two towers earlier so I couldn't have it as my project this was like 5 years ago)
Professional editor here: I’ve seen each of these movies 10+ times and they were one of main inspirations for picking up premiere for the first time
I can relate here. I'm an all around videographer/editor/filmmaker and Lord of the Rings (and the amazing making of documentaries that came with the extended edition DVDs) were one of my biggest inspirations getting started.
As an OG Tolkien fan it is very unsettling to see people judging new adaptions on how well they preserve the legacy of the Jackson movies instead of the original source material. I'm glad you end with 'nothing is going to tarnish the legacy of this trilogy', that is the best attitude tot take! But I do kind of get the defensiveness of some fans. That's what I feel when I see how much the movies have displaced the books as the Original in the fanbase, like this video. :)
Very true
I agree, I hope that eventually someone else will do a new LotR adaptation that is faithful but also quite different from PJ’s. Tolkien should not be the property of PJ!
I think the issue is that instead of being inspired to make a film from a story, the director is catering the fans a little too much.
Nothing is ever going to make the books less great. Besides anything but the Hobbit is just based on notes and sumarries so there's just not much finalized source material to commit to (and I have all the HoME books).
They quite literally don’t make movies like this trilogy anymore.
Also, props for not putting a thousand ads all throughout your video. You deserve credit for resisting the biggest temptation of all.
I mean are there any books left to adapt into trilogies?
I got a thousand ads :/
Yes, there are plenty, but I don't think they are as magical or timeless. A lot of modern fantasy books would make great adaptations, like Stormlight Archive, for example, but I don't think they'll be as timeless or classic as a LOTR is. Part of that has to do with the source material itself. Most modern fantasy tries to subvert classical fantasy tropes, and there is nothing wrong with that, but it makes for a lesser experience when put to screen in my opinion. A GOT is certainly memorable and had a huge cultural impact, but it does really feel like a story of this time. Still awesome, but 50 years from now, it'll most likely be seen as an overly nihilistic story.
@Noone-d6u
I watch the series at least twice a year, did it only once with prequels.😂😂😂
>implying they made movies like LotR before LotR
And let's not forget when aragorn turns to his army at the battle of the black gate, has tears in his eyes and simply says " FOR FRODO" AND CHARGES IN FIRST TO THE BATTLE. GIVES me the chills every time.
One of the few bits added to a movie adaptation that only makes it better.
It’s cool but god it’s annoying how little credit Sam gets consistently throughout the trilogy. Dude quite literally carried Frodo the way there
12:20 Aaaand here I stop. This here is why we will never get the follow up to Lord of the Rings we want, but instead dumbed down, flashy action spectacles. Modern audience just can't appreciate heroes who's qualities doesn't boil down to capacity for physical violence and that is is why Tolkien will never be done justice as that is the whole freaking core theme of his story and mythology. You get the franchise you deserve...
Thank you for saying this. I can’t stand Frodo slander
Yeah I'm going to be honest I've watched this guy quite a bit but the moment the frodo slander and doubt comes in I go out the back door. It takes a certain type of person to see between the lines of media and understand subtext. He's probably the same type of person that thinks that South Park is a fart jokes show. I don't think everybody has the ability to see things the way that they actually are though so we should give him some forgiveness and maybe educate them, help them see. If they still don't well they're missing out!
13:03 I will not stand for the frodo slander. No one else could carry the ring to the mountain of fire, basically sacrificing himself in the process body and soul. If you pay attention to the clues in the story, like Gandalf stating that the ring wants to be found, it explains Frodo being targeted by enemies, succumbing perilous terrain, or him appearing incompetent are all caused by the one ring influence. He carried the most powerful magical artifact, that constantly attacks its barer, psychologically and physically, across the world, even though frodo couldn't finish the job, he did deliver it to its doom. Idk how you could walk away from this story and not think frodo is a great hero if it's world.
Yep... there's also another layer to this.. about fate and how the Gollum played a role in the destruction of the ring, and how Frodo's choices regarding Gollum indirectly brought about the destruction of it. Me thinks that someone didn't bother to read the book or dig much past the obvious parts of the story. As I mentioned in another comment, I'm a little bit embarrassed for the creator of this video, even though there are a few good points. I'll give him that, but wow, he sure missed the point many times in this video.
Totally agree. Way too few people understand this, a clear sign of some people's lack of insight.
It makes me angry when people who haven't read the books say that Sam is the real hero, if only people knew that in the books Sam almost sent everything to hell, because Gollum enters the spider's lair to tell you what brings him food and when. He leaves the lair Gollum sees Frodo and Gollum there comes a time when he regrets wanting to kill them, but just at that moment Sam wakes up and asks him if he is snooping and from then on Gollum always maintained his evil side until his death, Tolkien In one of his letters he said that if Sam had not said anything to Gollum at that moment, Gollum would have changed and even jumped into the void with the ring, another fact is that if Frodo had not let him live Gollum and I would have given him permission to be his guide if they had not reached Mordor and not even Sam would have lasted so long using the ring, only three characters Smigol (Gollum), Bilbo and Frodo have had that privilege, that's why I don't understand that There are people who say that Frodo is a useless character when they forget that he wears a ring around his neck that corrupts him and destroys him from the inside and another fact in the books is that the ring is destroyed because Gollum starts dancing so happily. when recovering the ring that ends up falling into the void without realizing it. At no point does Sam save Frodo from falling.
I saw ROTK at a matinee that opening friday, and I literally walked out of the theater feeling physically ill. My body had experienced every single emotion it's possible for a human to endure and each one at its peak level. seriously like I was kinda dazed walking to my car and had to sit there for a bit. I had never read the books so knew nothing about how it ended or who might die, etc. probably the most profound theater going experience of my life
A Dying Legacy? no fcking way
31:15 You missed the entire point of Haldir's death. As he dies, we see the camera pan and we see his viewpoint. Men, elves, and orcs piled up on top of each other, all dead. It should make the audience feel hopeless for victory.
It further resonates when Theoden says "So much death. What can man do against such reckless hate". We know exactly what he means because we've seen it.
When Rohan showed up in the 3rd movie and the king gave the speech I get chills and teary. Then when the elephants show up and the king, no hesitation, says reform the line.. CHARGE!! Bro, I get chills and want to cry seeing those scenes. They get me like a child again.
Better than star wars
Correct and it’s not even close
Get them past c-3po first 😂✌️
Yeah Lord of the Rings eat Star Wars lunch and drinks it's milkshake too
No question
Wise, this one is.
One of the big problems I've noticed with these newer fantasy adaptations is how much I just DO NOT care about any of the characters. That is one of the first things that I notice when watching these.
Modern writing struggles with a competent ending that a story leads up to. They start here, and try to figure out where they're going along the way with nothing to create tension in the form of expediency. This is why the countdown/timer is employed so often. Or time travel, or, or, or. Edit: One of my favorite reactions is hearing them say: "We don't have time for this right now".
They think the original did all the character work already, so they can start cashing in ASAP
@@terrylandess6072 Modern writing has multiple issues.
1) Many of them lack the experience to write compeling and relatable characters.
2) The involvement of Management and their ideas of how they want things to be done. (Alien 3 is the best example given its development hell)
3) Pushing naratives and check boxing list of things that must be included.
4) "not having enough time" is the inherent issue with the current system of doing fast and cheap moneycow movies/tv shows, filled with short deadlines, getting it done cheaply by often hiring multiple writers to just do an episode or just deliver few lines for a character and/or hiring inexperienced writers because its cheaper then having dedicated writer team (which is occuring issue with TV shows).
These movies are the definition of cinema
The Ring's power grows the closer it is to it's origin. It is at it's strongest inside mount doom and basically not a single soul in middle earth could have destroyed it willingly. That is the reason Sauron wasn't concerned about anybody even trying (and didn't bother to place guards at the volcano). Frodo's failure is understandable even if he was incredibly strong willed to resist the temptation and get it as far as he did.
The destruction of the ring can be understood also as an accidental byproduct of the punishment for oath breaking. In middle earth swearing an oath is truly a heavy business. The men of the mountain broke theirs so Isildur was able to curse them into a state of a living death (and deny them their rest in peace). Gollum SWEARED to serve the master of the precious and swore it ON the precious. As we all know in the end "Smeagol lied..." and the precious betrayed him to his doom.
You believe that if Sam had seized the ring from Frodo he wouldn't have been able to throw it into the lava? Big call......
Great take I hadn’t realized before
It’s wild to me that until now you haven’t seen the extended editions. Whereas I don’t think I’ve seen the theatrical versions since I was a little boy.
Most trilogies come out on a six year time table without fail, but are often mediocre at best. This trilogy was filmed, edited and released on a three year time table and was flawless. Unprecedented! How the hell did they accomplish that? Phenomenal!
Frodo's lack of physical strength and ambition are precisely what make him a perfect ring bearer. With such an accursed artifact that feeds off of the negative qualities of those who posses it in order to entice them; it is necessary to have a weak, innocent, & pure person carry it. That Frodo is an unassuming and powerless person is why his heart can withstand the evil of the ring longer than anyone else could.
There's a great scene in the book when Sam is wearing the One Ring, and he starts having all of these fantasies about becoming a great conqueror, but then he comes to his senses and remembers that he's just a simple Hobbit.
I made my own video on this, but Frodo not being an epic hero was kind of the whole point of the story. It is not the power of men that defeats darkness. Frodo's simple humility and willingness to do whatever he could to bring about the end of the ring was of far more worth that any of his companions' heroism. As awesome as Aragorn or Gandalf's heroic moments were, they could never have done what Frodo did. That was Boromir's weakness, thinking that their strength was enough to defeat the enemy. Tolkien's point, and what Gandalf, Galadriel, and Aragorn understood was that only God can vanquish evil, and He can use even the most humble and unassuming instruments. Those who rely on their own strength are those prone to corruption.
Besides, even if Frodo's feat wasn't as dramatic as others' it's probably the most admirable. He willingly submitted himself to suffer the influence of the greatest evil on the planet until it completely destroyed him. The toll that took on his mind and soul is hard to imagine. Sam is awesome, and Frodo couldn't have finished the quest without him, but calling him the real hero is like saying your friend who supports you when you're overcoming an addiction or fighting through depression is the real hero of your story. Frodo deserves all the credit as the story's hero, even if Elijah Wood can occasionally be rather annoying.
I think you guys are both wrong. Yes Frodo is the hero but is Sam and everyone else are too. The fellowship entirely deserved the credit. Giving it to just an individual is unfair because everyone sacrifices. Anyway, great take tho
@killergrumpy1329 When I said "all the credit," I didn't meet that he and he alone deserves praise for his actions. Everyone in the fellowship was a hero, everyone had their part to play. I just meant that Frodo deserves all the credit of being considered the protagonist, which many say he didn't earn.
@@killergrumpy1329 Frodo deserves more credit than any other. Not only did he have the hardest job, he also didn't reap the rewards. Every other Fellowship mentor got a long and wonderful life after the War. Frodo got nothing but pain and travelling West, to hopefully maybe ease it. For that alone he's the #1 Hero of the story in my books.
The Lord of the Rings trilogy is truly lightning in a bottle. Sure, we've gotten fantastic adaptations before, for example, Jurassic Park-a fantastic book and movie. But we have never seen nor will we get another series like TLOR. And I think the most important detail in the entire making of the trilogy is pre-production. They knew exactly what they were making and how to do it long before filming began. And it was made out of love for the source material and not greed.
Ultimately, having a concise and prepared production is what partially crushed the Hobbit movies. And I'd love to see your take on the trilogy. I love the hobbit movies, flaws and all and I'd love to see your opinion on them.
Lord of the Rings was brilliant, but so was Gladiator. So was Saving Private Ryan. So was The Last Samurai. The early 00s was hit after hit, masterpiece after masterpiece. And don't forget the first Matrix movie. Then you had music like Nickelback with How you remind me, Evanescence and Bring me to Life, Creed my sacrifice. The early 2000s were something else. You were either too young to experience it, or if you were over 20 you were fighting in Iraq. Age 15 would have been the sweet spot.
@ brother you missed my point lol. I’m talking about ADAPTATION and production of a famous book or series into a trilogy. When in my comment did I say there weren’t any other great movies in the 2000s?😂
@@Rat-czar Ok I get you. Merry Christmas.
One thing about LotR is that as great as Peter Jackson’s films are there’s a lot he had to leave out due to the sheer length of the books, it’s a shame that they seem to feel like his adaptations are untouchable and they can only make prequels and spinoffs to it, when there’s so many interesting ideas to still be mined from the source material.
Ironically, I feel like the weird miniseries/seasonal tv show hybrid that the streaming landscape has created would actually be a really conducive medium for adapting the original trilogy fresh. They could do a season per book and really have time to do justice to the things they had to skip over or rush past in the movies but they wouldn’t have to face the pressures of making it episodic that they would’ve adapting it to television even just a few decades ago.
I'd love to see a movie or miniseries about the Scouring of the Shire.
I was literally just thinking the same thing: I think LOTR would work better as a show than a movie. There’s more time to flesh out all the things that were left out of the movies.
Yes, that would be amazing! I would love to see someone else’s take, especially if we finally get:
1. Plucky, competent Frodo
2. Elrond who is “as kind as summer”
3. Book accurate Faramir and Denethor, more of Gondor in general
I doubt it will be able to be done well now. Look at RoP, after 2 seasons it still has worse world building and character development than three films. Everyone wants their own GoT phenomenon. TV has been ruined by streaming.
Or he could've made 19 movies like Harry potter
Cool analysis for a non-saturated geek - but you can't argue for the benefit of authenticity on the one hand, and then say that Eowyn and Faramir should have been at the final battle at the Black Gate. Whether their scenes in the Houses of Healing are great cinema or not, their arc is to represent the potential of the wounded Middle-Earth to heal from the conflict of the story. Taking that away from them both would make their stories meaningless.
Exactly! Their story is beautiful. It would have been ridiculous to have them fight in that battle. It's not like they avoided duty.. hell they were already war heroes...they still did want to fight alongside their friends, but they also were in the middle of healing themselves physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually. Tolkien really went into depth on what that perspective was like.. as probably only a real veteran would. If I had to critique these takes it would be that both of them looked to healthy and fit .. ready for another round of battle.. which they were not, in the book.
Hell yeah, got one hour left of work. Perfect video to burn through it. Thanks 🙏🏽
You have to watch UA-cam videos for work? That's tough
Frodo and Sam having trouble sleeping on the ground outside their war comfortable beds is important to the story, though. In the movies we're introduced to Frodo under a tree which tells us he loves spending time outdoors and he mentions he loves adventures like Bilbo does. Sam on the other hand is a Hobbit in every since of the word 'hobbit.' We are shown how uneasy he is about traveling. He's way outside his comfort zone. It's a stark contrast to where Frodo and Sam will be by the end of their quest. I'm sorry but, the fact you said it isn't necessary to the story is ridiculous and there's a lot you harp on without understanding The Lord of the Rings.
There's a lot of nuance (and obvious things) that flew right past him. Which is fine, but if you giving a lecture/critique on LOTR, one probably should do one's homework and research the basics.
Frodo does NOT deserve the bad rap; Tolkien himself said that this was the view of "simple minds". The fact that he carried the Ring as far as he did was a miracle of endurance. To willingly destroy the Ring is impossible, so it's very unfair to judge him for that. Frodo wrecked his mind, body, and soul to do his part, which saved the free people of Middle-earth. Put some respect on his name haha
The movies didn’t do him any favors
if it's impossible to willingly destroy the ring, how did Gandalf plan out this whole thing to end? Did he count on Gollum to mess sh*t up?
@ probably tbh
@mistasomen It seems that Gandalf suspects that fate (Eru Ilúvatar) will have a role in it, which it does; it's said that Eru had a hand in Gollum slipping. From the beginning, it's recognized as a pretty desperate quest, but one that must be attempted anyway.
Gandalf- he's a wizard, he killed a very powerful demon while also dying himself. He deserved an extra life for his heroic action.
"The pitty of Bilbo may rule the fate of many"
funny bc in Two Towers, Merry and Pipin's storyline with Treebeard is one of my favorite storylines in the whole saga. It feels so relaxed and magical, I really enjoy it and I wish there was a 3 hour movie with just them walking and talking
Dying??? I watched ROTK yesterday for the millionth time and it was better than ever
Frodo is the man, his lack of martial ability is kind of what makes him awesome, he perserveres despite nothing but bad things happening and there being no reason to even believe he can win
Peter Jackson has said there are still hours and hours of unreleased footage from the original trilogy. All we need is a new extended-extended edition every decade or so.
Gandalf is basically an angel so he was sent back to finish his goal. Because he is so beast he isn't supposed to interfere in a lot of things and it's why he doesn't just whip out magic all the time.
i will defend frodo until the day i die. i feel like sam anytime people speak ill of him TT
This guy is a moron frankly. Anyone who watches these films and comes away babbling about "Sam is the true hero of the story" might as well wear a sign that say "I traded half my brain for fireworks. Me like boom boom!".
The movies are wonderful, especially the extended version. My favorite scene is the lighting of the beacons of Gondor. But no mater how great it is to watch them, nothing compares to reading the books. I read the trilogy every year on average. It is magical.
What Tolkien was thinking when he named Sauron and Saruman is that he was an expert in philology and etymology, and he literally created several languages, written and spoken, for his mythology. Every single name of a person, place, or object in Middle Earth adheres to the rules of the languages he invented. Imagine being a "content creator" with a lukewarm IQ, and having the audacity to question the decisions of a linguistics expert. What a world we live in...
Alright, Galdalf is basically a demigod. He is one of the Maiar, created by the Valar (gods), to structure the Earth after Ilúvatar (God) created it. But some of the Maiar are tasked with stopping Sauron, and they become the 5 wizards. So, Gandalf is sent back after he dies fighting the Balrog because his task isn't finished, yet. Gwaihir picks him up from the top of the mountain and takes him to Lothlorien where Galadriel clothes him in white and sends him on his way.
I made it about 13 minutes in. But with the “they had everything planned out as opposed to Pirates” show how little you know of what you speak, and of the changes made *during filming* (good changes btw), with the “Frodo didn’t no nothing” and “Elrond’s sour cuz Aragorn’s banging his daughter”, betrays a lack of insight and respect for the material which makes pretty much everything you say meaningless. I’m glad you like the movies, for your own sake, I love them too, but I can’t for the life of me figure out why since most of what I’ve heard so far are digs on the characters. Was hoping for something else, I guess.
I think my only real disagreement with you is your characterization of Frodo. I agree he is no great action hero in a traditional sense, notwithstanding a few explicit acts of heroism in the movies and few more depicted in the books. But the huge takeaway from his character is his ability to show restraint in the face of truly terrible power. The act of bearing the burden of carrying the ring alone would certainly corrupt the heart of any man or beast almost immediately. Think of Sméagol for instance. Frodo and Sméagol/gollum have intertwined fates for that very reason. They are two sides of the same coin. I would argue that Frodo is among the greatest of the heroes even if at times he can appear a bit meager and weak in the movies.
Also a quick note to clarify. You had mentioned the ring accidentally ended up on Frodos finger during the prancing pony scene. I think it is rather suggested (granted a bit more explicitly in the book) that the ring has a mind of its own. Some mysterious power over its own fate. This is why he is so tempted to wear the ring when the Nazgûl are near. The ring wants to be found!
Banger video though! Always love to hear a fresh perspective on the movies.
Thank you! I’ve been wanting a LOTR video from you for a while! I just did a rewatch of the trilogy, and I love these movies so much. My favorite films of all time.
The legacy of The Lord of the Rings trilogy will never die, it is ETERNAL.
One aspect I love so much about Tolkien‘s writing is that death and decay are build in and acknowledged. Most fictional universes that are hopeful are so in a short sighted way, but like in real life, everything must eventually die and pass away. People who can’t accept this in fiction and real life go through great lengths to gain a form of immortality, but end up doing a lot of harm… either to themselves or others. I love that the book features the appendices and I can read how all of the characters died, like a real history. Tolkien didn’t shy away from that fact and neither did some cjreators like Geprge Lucas, who was to introduce a lot deeper philosophical elements in his planned sequels about symbiosis and how we think we are running the show when in fact we aren’t really needed.
One reason you might've failed to understand the importance of them taking a "Slow" approach for the Woods Lothlorien scene is because of the rightful impact a MAJOR character death can have with an effect on the entire fellowship and later follows with the breaking of the fellowship due to the loss of Gandalf. Obviously some people take more interest in movies with the go go go pacing at all times and with tons of reviews of the first movie sharing that sentiment it is hardly a secret that it has the slowest progression out of the three, but when trying to really convey a proper change in the narrative you need proper shift in pacing. Now I may be wrong in saying the death was warranted a good slowing down section of the movie, but it worked out for me and a lot of other people and I think that is a wonderful thing. As a closing statement i'd like to say no matter what version of the movie you watched so long as you enjoyed the journey that's all that matters.
I appreciate that you defended the theatrical cuts. Sometimes, online discourse of LOTR is just an endless circle-jerk for the extended editions, which are beautiful and should be viewed at least once by hardcore fans, but they're not the be-all, end-all. The theatrical cuts are very well-cut movies that get all the important themes and characterizations. The extended cuts are for when you really want to soak in the world a little more and get the additional lore.
I haven’t watched the theatrical versions since the original DVD release. As soon as the extended versions came out, they’re the only versions I’ve watched and I watch the whole trilogy at least once a year. I can’t even remember which bits are extended and which aren’t anymore.
"My favorite trilogy and movies EVER!" - "Ive never watched the extended editions"............what.
That should be illegal
@@SunnyLovetts What should be illegal is the endless circle-jerking of the extended editions online. Yes, they're fine movies that way, but they're also fine in their theatrical cuts, which this UA-camr rightly pointed out are the cuts that won awards.
When you're trying to brave the mountain pass and suddenly you hear a loud MAYA HI MAYA HU coming from Isengard.
I promise you, the legeacy is not dying, most people haven't watched any of these shitty fanfics made by amazon, everyone will remember the original trilogy as Lord of the Rings and nothing else
Don't worry, Tolkien will live on
Don't get me wrong, I love the movies, but these "shitty fanfics" are in tone and themes closer to the books than the movies.
@@anni.68not nearly true, not even close to a good lie.
@anni.68 Galdriel is the worst in RoP. She's closer in tone and theme to the books? I dunno about that.
@@PGTRegard Her character arch is shorter than in the books, but it is pretty accurate.
"She was proud, strong, and selfwilled, as were all the descendants of Finwë save Finarfin; and like her brother Finrod, of all her kin the nearest to her heart, she had dreams of far lands and dominions that might be her own to order as she would without tutelage....From her earliest years she had a marvellous gift of insight into the minds of others, but judged them with mercy and understanding, and she withheld her goodwill from none save only Fëanor. In him she perceived a darkness that she hated and feared, though she did not perceive that the shadow of the same evil had fallen upon the minds of all the Noldor, and upon her own." (Unfinished Tales)
"Even after the merciless assault upon the Teleri and the rape of their ships, though she fought fiercely against Feanor in defence of her mother's kin, she did not turn back. Her pride was unwilling to return, a defeated suppliant for pardon; but now she burned with desire to follow Feanor with her anger to whatever lands he might come, and to thwart him in all ways that she could." (Unfinished Tales).
"...she was personally proud and rebellious and wished for freedom". (Nature of Middle-earth)
"[Galadriel] was then of Amazon disposition...” (The Letters of J.R.R.Tolkien, Letter 348). Tolkien only and exclusively used the term amazon for warrior women ( Measse, Haleth and Galadriel). He explicitly said that e.g. Eowyn was not an amzon.
"She looked upon the Dwarves also with the eye of a commander, seeing in them the finest warriors to pit against the Orcs" - (J.R.R. Tolkien, Unfinished Tales, The History of Galadriel and Celeborn’). This quote is Second Age, from the time of the Forging of the Rings of Power.
"It was not until two long ages more had passed, when at last all that she [Galadriel] had desired in her youth came to her hand, the Ring of Power and the dominion of Middle-earth of which she had dreamed, that her wisdom was full grown and she rejected it, and passing the last test departed from Middle-earth for ever." (Unfinished Tales). Note Tolkien's choice of words. It's not THE test, it's the LAST test.
@@anni.68 LMFAO!!! You're joking right?!? RoP is ANTITHETICAL to every message and the very worldview Tolkien espoused and infused throughout his mythology. To be sure, Jackson marred them as well, but for the most part the tone and themes remained intact. Amazon's is an hatefic and an inversion of everything Tolkien wrote on the same level and even greater as what fathead Ryan Johnson did to Luke Skywalker.
My take on the extended editions is that once you've seen them, the theatrical editions feel like a waste of time. There are some scenes in the extended editions that are 10% Tolkien and 90% Jackson, but without those scenes, the theatrical editions are very choppy. You see things like Gollum choking for no reason, and the Voice of Saruman scene is missing. In the Return of the King theatrical movie, Frodo and Sam seem to be teleporting. In the extended edition, they actually journey to Orodruin. Also, the scene with Denethor, Boromir, and Faramir all together is my favorite. Without it, it is hard to see Boromir as Denethor's son.
I can tell you didn't read the book. From Elrond and Aragorn's family tree (which explains a lot) to the character arcs of Faramir and Eowyn, to what happened to Saruman, there is SO much more going on there that you can't see by just watching the films. I'm actually a little embarrassed for you.. before making assumptions or saying a sequence is bad, it might be good to do your research. (I cringed a few times)
I can see your point as far as how a film can be different from a book, and I loved both for different reasons, but yeah, it's obvious you didn't read the book or really get some of the main points of the source material.
You clearly do care about these movies, and kudos for putting the effort in to make this video, but you’ve opened yourself up to a lot of criticism you could have very easily avoided with a few quick fact checks, (the sword Elrond brings is called Anduril, not Arondil, its a small detail but a pretty important one and thats the kinda thing that had me very nearly check out, and im sure im not the only one) a bit of research, (subjects like magic, and the difference between a hard and soft magic system as well as gandalf’s purpose in middle earth being to guide the free peoples through wisdom rather than lead them through strength, hence the kindly old man appearance) and some deeper thought about some of what you’ve said (Aragorn fighting Sauron absolutely does undermine the point of not just Aragorn’ bravery but also that of the men who marched with him, and removing it was categorically the right choice, not to mention the movie establishes that Sauron cant take physical form without the ring)
Im glad you made this video, and it is a bold thing to do without true conviction because of how important a piece of literary history it is, but i do think you’ve let yourself down in a few places
Yep. I dipped as soon as he showed he had no understanding of the nature of Gandalf. Pointless listening to essentially a lecture by someone so ill informed.
There are plenty of Tolkien scholars out there
I did too. For such a fan of Aragorn, and someone presenting themselves as an expert (critic) there's some gaping holes in his understanding of the Tolkien Universe and its characters. And I'm not even that much of a nerd.
@@innercircle341 Indeed... I love Jess of the Shire and In Deep Geek. I actually learn something about the books and films on other YT channels and I think I'll skip this one.
Get off the extended editions, the fact that it can be that long and still keep my attention speaks to how well they are done. They could've added more even, the books are long and detailed why would you want to cut that?
I really enjoy the audiobook by Phil Dragash. It has music and voices like the movies and sound effects, but it has the text of the books. And it's a free download. I feel like fans of the movie trilogy could get some satisfaction from it. If you want to know the book text but with the flavor of the movies.
I will check this out!
I will never stand for faramir criticism. He’s perfect. Nothing to change. He can do no wrong no matter how much it calls to him
I say this as someone who was fine with how they wrote Faramir in the movies: I get why some folks are annoyed by his being tempted by the Ring at all in the movie (or, really -- tempted to do something to gain his father's approval; it's pretty unclear whether he's actually tempted *by the Ring*). He's much more incorruptible in the books, and that's really important to a lot of people. (My personal feeling is that his portrayal in the books would not have worked that well on screen; and I understand the storytelling problem they were trying to solve. As I said, I feel like the movie suggests more that he was tempted to bring the Ring to his father to gain his father's approval -- and, like Boromir, thought it would help Gondor -- than that he, himself, was tempted by the Ring. So for me, he maintains his virtue, while going through an interesting arc that helps the on-screen story.)
I'll never forget being in 5th grade, reading the appendices and legitimately questioning if it was real history that was lost or something. For like 5 minutes 😂 I love the extended versions, but they could have fit Tom in somehow. Even just in passing. Anyway great video I agreed 100%
"Never thought I'd die fighting side by side with an elf"
"What about 'Side by side with a freind'?"
"... Aye... I could do that..."
I cry every time I watch that scene
You are complaining about scenes in the movies that were ALSO IN THE BOOKS. The ghost army was in the books. Eowyn and Faramir met and fell in love IN THE BOOKS. You even said that Eowyn and Faramir should have been at the Black Gate, but they weren’t at the Black Gate in the books either. They were both injured in battle and Eowyn was suffering from the black breath of the Witch King. Aragorn healed them both, but they were UNABLE to go back into battle. So their scenes were NOT unnecessary. It gave their characters closure.
100% agree! Plus, their story is far more interesting than the typical endings of action, war, and love stories. This was a perfect "well then what?" story, much like the Hobbits returning to the Shire to defend it. Tolkien's work is so cool because it doesn't read like a movie with the usual plot devices. It reads like real history and biography, along with real human perspectives and depth.
Even Merry didn't make it to the final battle.
I can’t wait to finish this after I finish my English Essay.
In the books there are important points to the scene with Aragorn confronting Sauron through the Palantir. They are two fold. Firstly, as a Numenorean and of a direct line right the way back to Elros (Elrond's brother who chose to be human rather than Elf) the Palantirs were a gift to his people and his by right, so wrenching it from Sauron's control was a direct blow to Sauron's power and pride. Without speaking a word, he challenged and taunted him. The purpose of this was to goad Sauron in making a hasty strike against him - and keeping the Eye well away from Frodo and Sam. The second was intelligence gathering, using the Palantir's power to 'see' such things as approaching reinforcements - something left out in the movie anyway.
The relationship between Faramir and Eowyn in the Houses Of Healing is from the books and that part of the books gives the viewpoint from those confined to Minas Tirith as Aragorn leads his combined forces to the gates of Mordor.
YES! The creator of this video missed the point in many places. These were two. He seems to know very little about Aragorn, for being such a fan. And the whole point of the character arc of Eowyn and Faramir is that they were grappling with not being able to fight with their friends/comrades and what all this meant. It's not just a simple little story written for people who just want simple entertainment and simple characters. Tolkien writes from the perspective of someone who has actually been through a war. I seem to remember that Tolkien most closely identifies with Faramir.. something along the lines of "I do not love fighting/weapons but the things that they protect." I think he also missed the point of Eowyn's character arc.. which didn't end with her going back into battle. He really, really, missed the whole point with Eowyn.
Have you ever read the books and the other stories that support them? You don't say specifically in the video (at least that I caught). If you haven't it's entirely worth doing it at least once. Yes, it's just as much of a journey but it gives you the proper understanding of why most of the extended scenes are there and what true purpose they serve. Most of it is character arc resolution, but it will help with your "why is this even here?" questions.
This was a great video Thrifty. I hope you take the chance to delve into the larger world of Middle Earth. It's so worth it!
He very clearly hasn't read the books.
So glad Lord of the Rings Conquest art was put in here the game was so fun very great childhood memories
Goated game
Your channel stumbled on my suggested page and man am I glad I watched. All your videos have been such a joy and watching this breakdown of my favorite movies of all time was so good! Props to you man!
best channel i’ve recently found in a while
This guy has obviously never read the book. The book gives you a much greater appreciation of the characters, the stakes, the setting, the great history, etc. For one thing, Peter Jackson drastically altered important characters, and for the life of me I can't imagine why.
In the book, Aragorn hasn't lost faith in the race of men and isn't afraid of his lineage and his role as future king. He knows he is the best man for the job; not out of arrogance but because he truly is a great leader, and he's just waiting until the pieces are in place for him to assume the throne. He has spent decades (prior to the start of the story) leading the Dunedain, protecting the Shire, fighting with the Rohirrim and Gondorians, and subverting Sauron's plans wherever he can. He is a mighty warrior, a loyal friend, a wise leader, and a faithful betrothed to Arwen. He is not weak, indecisive, apprehensive, or afraid.
Faramir (Boromir's brother) in the book is not at all like he is in the movie. Faramir is younger, but wiser and stronger-in-character. He is a friend of Gandalf's and studied with the wizard. So, when Frodo meets Faramir he is rightly afraid that Faramir's going to try to take the ring, just like Boromir did. But Faramir says, "Not if I found the ring lying on the highway would I take it." He later gives Frodo and Sam provisions for their journey and sends them on their way. He does NOT waylay them and force them to travel with him to Gondor. That is the very last thing Faramir would ever do!
In the book, Gimli is a stout warrior, loyal to his companions and brave in battle. He's a proud dwarf and sometimes lets his temper get the best of him; but he's also a lover of great beauty and has great respect for Galadriel and Legolas. He has a great character arc in the book, and you don't see nearly enough of that in the movies. Peter Jackson turned him into a fool, a jester. Comic relief.
My point is that, while I understand the necessity of making certain changes in order to adapt a book to screen, these changes are completely unnecessary and only serve to undermine Tollkien's genius by rewriting his characters. The movies would have been better served by portraying the characters as they were originally written.
In my lowest moments. I reflect on fiction. And these series in particular. To quote Gandalf "Perhaps it is because I am afraid, and he gives me courage"
the emotion these films and works of literature give to the audience resonate through time. From courage, to doubt, righteousness, and above all humor.
You did an amazing job surmising this series and what it means. Enjoy your work, keep it up!
Absolutely not a dying legacy. Everything after the trilogy just makes them that much better by comparison
The Thrifty Typewriter dropping a 1hr long lotr video??? I Need my beer and snacks!!
Interesting how right after you say, "Good luck disagreeing with Tolkien himself," you then proceed to do so by wanting Faramir and Eowyn at the Black Gate.
That being said, great review my guy!
Extended is the only way to watch. First time or not
You don't get the plot...
Been excited to hear your take on
As time has past, Theoden has become my favorite character of these movies. After Saruman´s spell is broken, he turns from a mourning father to reluctant protector of he´s people to a real hero king. It always gets me when Theoden decides to ride with Aragorn against the org army, just to give he´s people a little more time to burrow through the caves into safety, without even knowing that Gandalf promised to return with help, only Aragorn knows this.
I don’t think the legacy is dying. I think the blatant commercialization of it is dying. I still firmly believe Tolkien’s works will thrive for generations to come.
The best films ever made - the greatest work of fiction ever written in the english (sometimes!) language
I'm SO happy I was born when I was born ❤
Saw the trilogy in cinemas again a few weeks ago. (Extended). Says something that films as long as these still left me wanting more. Not just being a fan but genuinely believe the extended versions are better and I only saw them properly a few months ago. They'll never get old.
I remember being grumpy that Shelob was in the third movie rather than the second, and absolutely indignant that Tom wasnt in the first. I was in middle school and not very smart.
I also barely read the books from what I remember, the movies were the only thing keeping me invested, so really I had no business complaining.
Hey Thrifty, will you be doing an analysis for the Hobbit trilogy???
youre not being fair to frodo especially at the end. no one in the world couldve resisted the ring at that point in mount doom. its power was to great
I believe many people take the story too realistically and forget a man created this and had story/character beats to express. Intricately crafted. Living in a world where everything needs an explanation which gets torched if they don't agree. :D
I like how Gollum isn't really focused on until the second film, leaving the first film free to focus on Boromir. If the films tried to explore two conflicted characters at once, it could've been messy. Thankfully Gollum takes center stage right after Boromir exits.
I agree about the extended edition. I'm a massive Tolkien fan, but never get why people recommend the extended for new fans. There are a lot of great scenes but also a lot of bloat and silly stuff.
It feels like people who never read the books want to feel superior by hyping up the extended all the time. The pacing of the theatrical versions is perfect. Also, yeah the extended scene of Frodo and Sam seeing the elves if probably the most Tolkien esque scene in the movies.
Totally agree. I enjoy the extended editions somewhat, but when I really want to sit down and watch this trilogy with my full attention, I always choose the theatrical versions. The fact that Eowyn’s entire arc has been watered down to “girl who make bad stew for Aragorn” by some of the “fans” of these movies is one of the worst things the extended editions did.
Me looking at the title: "Thats bait"
I have to disagree with you completely about Aragorn fighting Sauron. They would never have had a one-on-one fight because that was not what their struggle was about. Sauron's power was not in physical fights, but in mental domination, specifically by destroying all faith, trust, and hope. Equally, Aragorn's ultimate power against Sauron is his ability to resist, and to inspire that resistance in others. Sauron spent years creating division and despair among the various races and kingdoms so they would never be strong enough to defeat him. The ring amplified this power, but he never used it as weapon to win a physical fight. It was not Aragorn that Sauron feared, it was the power of the King of Gondor as a symbol that would unite all the free people of Middle Earth and give them the morale and mental strength to fight back against his influence. This is what gives this trilogy so much raw emotional impact - power is not about who can physically overpower who, it's about mental grit, hope, and selfless sacrifice to protect those you love. To reduce that final battle down to a goodie and a baddie whacking each other with swords would have completely destroyed the beautiful, complex message Tolkien was sending. You know why this trilogy succeeded so well when other adaptations have failed so miserably? It (mostly) stuck to his very unique themes and fundamental truths and did not deteriorate into the cheap, shallow visuals and standardised, one-dimensional devices that most movies do. The moment you veer away from Tolkien's voice, you fail, because you have jolted the audience out of Middle Earth and into the Hollywood machine. And that's why Tolkien fans so resent the travesties shoe-horned into other productions by people who either don't understand the story or arrogantly think they can do it better.
Dear God... It's almost like you've read the book! I'm glad I'm not the only one.
Speak for yourself! I do not know what "travesties shoe-horned into other productions by people who either don't understand the story or arrogantly think they can do it better" you are talking about, but Rings of Power e.g. is in tone and themes closer to the books than the movies. Born of Hope, Horn of Gondor, Hunt for Gollum and Dagor Dagorath are also pretty good. And yes, I do know Tolkien's books. All of them. So, don't pretend that your opinion represents other Tolkien fans.
@@anni.68 Rings of Power is awful, just accept it
They don’t make movies like this anymore. I remember TLOTR and Harry Potter being the TITANS of movies at the time! Like you were excited for the new movies, the books and merch lol
0:51 that is technically already the plot
Hot take perhaps, but we see the ring growing in power little by little as it nears Mordor and begins to increase its influence over Frodo. There are great hints for this throughout the movies. We see the difference in Frodo's behavior and that the ring is physically growing more and more heavy with each step that brings it closer to Mt. Doom.
The real reason for why the ring affects the people around it so much, is because it contains Sauron's greatest power of all - his force of will. Sauron is actually very intelligent and cunning, although much of it is omitted in the movies and even in the books. To get what he wants, he can persuade others, barter with them, blackmail, threaten or even torture them if needed. However, those in his immediate presence, he can simply compel to act according to his will.
We see his will act through the Palantir as well. He uses it briefly against Pippin and later on Aragorn. Even the lesser Maia can not resist his will, as can be heard from Saruman. He himself puts it best in his conversation with Gandalf in the first movie: "You did not seriously think that a hobbit could contend with the will of Sauron... There are none who can." Implying that he himself tried, failed and fell under his domain. Gandalf, being the wiser of the two, does not even dare to try.
When Frodo holds the ring up over the edge at Mt. Doom and contemplates its destruction, the ring is at its strongest point throughout the entire story. I do not believe that there is anyone or anything in all of Middle Earth that could've won that battle of wills against Sauron and destroyed the ring by choice.
The entire point of the success of these films was the production crew deciding to leave their feelings out and to work as faithfully to the source material as possible. When those rules are bent (The Hobbit) or broken (Rings of Power), you get subpar stories and something much closer to a skin suit than any sort of faithful or grounded representation.
In what way exactly were the "rules broken" for Rings of Power? Can you give me some examples, including the appropriate book references? Why exactly do you believe that Lord of the Rings - which is considered a rather unfaithful adaptation - is a more faithful and grounded representation of the books than Rings of Power? No personal opinion, please, only book related reasons.
@anni.68 No I won't. Interesting set of demands to make to a stranger on the internet. The show sucks and so do you.
@@anni.68 there are hundreds of videos explaining that
Rings of Power unfortunately has no source material to draw on..... that's the problem.
@ They do. They have the rights for the appendices of LOTR which includes a timeline of the events of the Second Age, and they get case to case permission from the Tolkien Estate e.g. for the use of the name Annatar. Apart from that they did something most people have not considered: The read Tolkien's books :) Why worry about expensive or unavailable rights if you can just _read_ the books? That's why the show does not contradict the character descriptions and the tone and themes of the books.
It's easily the best trilogy ever made. It's not even close. All 3 are 9/10 minimum. No other trilogy has that. Indiana Jones and Star wars are probably the closest and both of them have one movie in the trilogy that can't hold a candle to any of the Lord of the rings movies.
The Lord of the Rings trilogy itself will always be a timeless masterpiece. No matter what other stories they decide to tell with differing levels of quality, they'll never ruin my love for the films.
I’m not by any means an expert, but I’ll try to explain my understanding of Gandalf’s death and return using layman’s terms.
My understanding is that Gandalf and the other wizards are like angels but they have been given physical bodies so that they can walk among mortals and guide them, abiding by certain rules and limits given to them by their superiors.
The Balrog is basically a fallen angel of a similar spiritual level as Gandalf. When they fought, Gandalf won but his physical body gave out and died. That would have been the end of his time on Middle Earth but God intervened and sent his spirit back in a new body with more power to be a leading figure in the fight against Sauron.
In a literary sense, I’m afraid I can’t provide any insight for Tolkien’s reasoning. It might have been as simple as just wanting a favorite character back, or it could have been a need for a sign of hope in a war that was constantly going against the good guys. If he ever elaborated on the reason he brought Gandalf back I’m sure someone here will inform us (and probably already has).
Edit: I am aware there’s way more involved here, this was just an attempt to give a general overview of what happened in a simple way.
I haven't even seen the original version since I saw it in theaters. I always watch the Extended Edition because they just have so much character development and I love that.
Yes! And they all have a purpose. I find it weird that someone who obviously hasn't read the books (The creator of this video) thinks that he knows what scenes are needed and which ones are not.
Wizards Lore for dummies:
-God (called Eru Illuvatar) created lesser Gods dedicated to controlling one aspect of existence. These together created all parts of the World and beings. One of these Gods called Morgoth created the concept of Evil and among other thigns the Balrog. Eru Illuvatar sent the Astari (essentially angels) to fight him but one of them called Sauron joined him. The forces of good defeated Morgoth but Sauron, being an immortal god being, couldn't die. So Eru sent the other Astari to Middle Earth as wizards to fight him. Because Eru wanted peace and not to get more Astari drunk with power like Sauron, he turned them into fragile old men, and made their bodies mortal. But because their souls are immortal once they die, they go back to Eru Illuvatar and he can revive them as will. Gandalf got to be revived and promoted to be the new leader of the Astari, the white wizard. Saruman did not get revived as punishment for joining Sauron. Sauron only got destroyed because he put his soul in the Ring then making it as mortal as the ring.
That last line, about how the love you have for stories don't die because more is added, but because you never truly loved it to begin with, really resonated. A very simple but profoundly meaningful sentiment that you found words to express
I watched the extended edition and was confused why Gandalf came back so I googled it and (I've never read the books) what I saw was a forum answer saying something like the God of the Lord of the Rings universe was like, "yo, they need some major help so I'm going to upgrade your gear and stats so get ready for round 2" and that's how he was reborn. That's what I understood anyway.