I think the problem a lot of people have with Octavia is that they try to play her like a DPS Wizard. She's not, she's an Arcane Trickster. She's an amazing trapmonkey and buffer/debuffer, but she's not a pure Wizard. If you focus on her skills and use her as a backup caster she's super useful. Disclaimer: I frequently play Arcane Tricksters, so I'm used to the build.
Yo anytips I’m lvl 11 she mostly do Haste+web+greater invisability+ give a party member a +2 ability score boost. She is not useless bet I get a feeling I could do more with her.
On Tristan: Armor does interfere, even with the proper feat (Eccles). Found that out the hard way. Do NOT waste a feat, your spellcasting is entirely disabled if you wear any type of armor.
Yeah, I though about dipping into fighter too for Tristian, so I saved, did that, put armor on and - spells not working, great. So I've gotten insanely lucky with my save-scumming :D
Best thing to do with Tristian since he can't wear armor is to multiclass him with Empyreal Sorceror, then go into Mystic Theurge. He'll have a ridiculous amount of spells (although he'll never be able to cast the highest level sorceror or cleric spells.)
I agree about Linzi. Maybe some people aren't familiar with playing a bard or having one in your party. They make everyone else better at what they do, while ALSO being able to play the JOAT for the party.
About Jaethal: Undead use charisma for constitution score, including for bonus hit points. Also Jaethal is one of the best debuff focused characters in the game (together with Jubilost with curse bomb), esp. if you enlarge her or give her a reach weapon. Getting half your inquisitor level to intimidate checks makes her a menace with Curmegeon Strike, Dazzling display and the follow up feat to dazzling display whose name I just forgot. Basically every opponent will be shaken, always. Add to that all the undead immunities, and that she can't die-die, she is really strong. If you multiclass her into 3-4 levels of Thug once they fix the bugs.... Also Jaethal does not need other party members with the same teamwork feats, all she needs is another character threatening the same opponents, even a summon will do.
People completely miss out on the utility of Valerie having high Charisma, being an unstoppable damage sponge, and the ability to constantly frighten gobs of enemies
darkfireslide completely misunderstood Valerie: she's almost perfectly designed for tanking. The 13 dex with items will keep up with armor training throughout the game, giving maximum available AC from start to finish. Then you consider a thug dip for dazzling display and also using her charisma as a regent. I would personally drop 19 con to 18 rounding up her intelligence and wisdom for slight bonuses, maybe drop con even further to 16 in order to increase charisma, since throughout the game all of her points in my game go to her charisma. She essentially holds the door against those gigantic zombie cyclopses and I could never deal with the game on challenging or above without funneling the crowds of enemies into her at some choke point. Even with displacement, it's still very hard to keep up. Perhaps Regongar with mirror images and stoneskins could fulfill a similar role.
Armour does affect Tristan's ability to cast. Not channel energy, but equipping armour greys out all spellcasting .. I know I tried giving him a level in fighter just so that he can equip the blessed path armour.
I feel like you are vastly underrating Octavia and arcane trickster in general. She can get arcane trickster as her 5th level, and has massive damage output with her 1st level spells doing around 8d6 at 5th level. Yes, she is very slightly behind on casting progression, but it is more than made up for with her bonus damage. When you hit 14th level and cast improved invisibility on her, ALL of her spells will be doing a bonus 7d6 damage. I think that more than makes up for having to wait 1 level for the next spell level.
Octavia also does nice damage on her spells from sneak attack damage. The problem I find is that there is not really another character to compare to Octavia arcane wise.
Octavia is great, but screw Arcane Trickster. Stop at maybe 6 levels of rogue, you need no more... maybe even 5. All you have to do is keep up with her Intelligence and make sure to put skill points in Trickery so she can stealth, open locks and find traps. Beyond that, just raise her wizard levels and she is pretty awesome. What you really want her to have is Evasion and after that, no more rogue levels are required.
Regongar will only get Dragonkind 1. The Eldritch Scion bloodlines give spells and since Magus only gets up to 6th level spells, they can't actually cast the level 7 - 9 spells their bloodline gives them.
Jaethal is one of the best if not the best evil companion, actually. As a spontaneous caster her Cure spells don't take any spell slots, not that you'd ever use her for healing anyway as she's a melee DPS character at heart. Channeling Negative Energy is also not necessary, she can cure herself with Inflict Wounds just fine. With the Judgments she can buff her AC up to keep up with your main tank and even give you respectable levels of DR and Fast Healing by the end. Even if she goes down, she can't ever die (unless you do her good ending). She's also an amazing skill monkey, wins all your Perception and Intimidation checks (who's gonna say "no" to the psycho undead judge lady?), is totally immune to all mind-affecting stuff and poisons (suck it souleaters), gets Greater Bane at lvl 12, can cast Greater Invisibility on herself, has weapon proficiency to scythes with 4x crit multiplier from her deity etc etc.
You got Ekun right. He is FRIGHTENING. I have a paladin, but I've kept Ekun on his original path and he is far and away the most dangerous PC in the party, probably dealing x3-4 more damage than anyone else. Add the wolf who has the 2nd highest AC (after Valerie), a scary attack bonus, outrageous damage, knockdown and speed to get behind an enemy quickly to create a flank, and the pair are invaluable in a fight. Further, there are lots of great bows in the game for him to have. He is so awesome, I'd thought to play the game again with a ranger and s wolf companion and just watch the game to tell me to piss off.
You don't give armor prof to tristian, you give him mage armor from one of your casters. You have to babysit him during combat, but he is an absolute beast if you can manage him. He is way better than harrim imo.
Just remove the quarterstaff from Tristian and make sure he has a crossbow and bracers. If you play your characters right he shouldn't really take any melee damage, careful positioning against ranged damage though will be needed from time if it looks like he is going to be focused. As he has decent domain spell choices, he is also capable of doing ok AOE damage particular if you also have Octavia in your group.
Dead on. Harrim is annoying and useless by comparison. Even his quest line is annoying. Frequently enough, I just parked Tristan at the back of the fight and had him flash heal. Early on, it's pretty effective in a large fight.
The most important function in a list like this is to let me know what classes not to choose with my main, so that I don't stack classes in my party when I decide who I want to take.
Not trying to dump on you, but a lot of your conclusions here seem to show a lack of underlying knowledge of how the game works, and how specific features function (in the 'this ability does this' rather than the 'wrong bad fun way'). I thought a lot of your points were pretty well thought out (and also rank Val and Amiri at the bottom of the normal party members), but a few things jumped out pretty specifically. Octavia's sneak attack capabilities for instance come into play, on a ranged touch attack, any time two melee characters are attacking the same target. She doesn't bring quite the DPS of Nok Nok, but her reliability, ability to remain in the back line, and casting abilities (only a single level behind a wizard, on par with a sorcerer) make her arguably one of the most well built characters in the game. Yes the low con hurts - but by level 6-7 I was swimming in belts of constitution I could put on her - and took toughness rather than improved initiative to further shore up her defenses (to say nothing of how amazingly powerful mirror image is at the start of a dungeon). She has arguably the most reliable DPS in the game. Trading level of casting on a wizard for 7d6 sneak attack is pretty powerful. An archer does more damage overall in most circumstances, but she brings a lot of other stuff to the table. Similarly, placing Jaethal low on the list is really vexing, because she provides her own healing pretty consistently, lots of DPS, great skills (including trap spotting) and good DPS. I consider her only significant weakness to be her reliance on class features you need to use (i.e. micro management), especially since being undead means she's utterly immune to a huge array of damaging and debilitating effects in the late game. She gets bonus hit points from Charisma score. Her lack of constitution score is literally an advantage you can exploit with cloudkill. It costs her nothing. Combat healing - outside of swift action healing - is almost never worthwhile last levels 1-3 (and is questionable there).
Fully agreed. Octavia is awesome. Accomplished sneak attacker, WIZ until Arcane Trickster. Sneak Attack damage on *disintegrate*? Which is in her favored school? With Sense Vitals on? Oh, yes please. Really high numbers are only required on the really dangerous enemies, anyway; and they require mico. For everything else just have her autocast her cantrips; as her ranged touch hits more reliably than weapons. If left to their own devices, the party swarms the same enemy, so you get really good damage on your level 0 spells through flanking. I typically give Linzi Arcane Trickster, too; albeit later. NokNok certainly outmurders any other melee companion you get, and he's hilarious to boot, but he is a definite glass cannon and gets far less options to protect himself than Octavia gets. Having said all this, by the end; Amiri can be devastating. Amiri tends to get hurt too quickly early game, but... Where NokNok kills big targets superfast, Amiri with Greater Cleaving Finish, a good reach weapon and a +10 bonus to STR will murder the chaff like it's nobody's business. Give her two levels of 2-handed fighter and you're golden. I don't remember where you get it, but there's a +2 oversized greatclub somewhere. Use that, enrage with enlarge person and go to town. You get minimum damage in the 50's.
It's weird because based on her dialogue and wit she should have at least decent intelligence. Compare that to Amiri who is the hulk smash character whose intelligence is 10, which seems acceptable. But is Amiri more intelligent than Valerie? Hmm not sure about that one. You have a similar problem in all roleplaying games because is 10 the average of all people in the world, or is it the average of adventurers (who are probably on average more remarkable)?
@@mrbouncelol I think 10 is average, so about 100IQ, and every point of int below or above that is about 10 IQ points. So a character with 18 int is an Einstein-level savant, while a character with an int of 7 is just above mentally disabled.
@@mrbouncelol To be fair, it seems the game values knowledge about the world more. Amiri is a great hunter and has a lot of experiance out in the world, compared to Valerie who lived a fairly sheltered life. Plus the fact that Valerie purposefully rejects a more intelectual outlook on life in general.
Atheism with Charisma and Strength is a but of a tricky one. Lore-wise it squares with the backstory, but not a ton of options to fully use everything in a build. There is the feat that adds Str bonus to Persuasion checks, and the Thug feat that adds Frighten to intimidate on high-rolls, namely Dazzling Display. As a mid-range aelf-aoe, it synergizes fairly well with Constitution and Tower Shield. It's sort of the only combat use for Charisma on Valerie, since Bard and Magus would completely waste the Tower Shield Specialist pick.
@@mtaur4113 Sorcerer is not bad especially if you go the celestial bloodline for bonus resistances and focus on transmutation to make Valerie harder to kill. You just shouldn't make her an offensive caster is all.
Honestly, it's better to give Tristian bracers of armor instead since his str is way too low for heavy armor, and they'll go up to +2 by the time he's level 5-7. Edit: On Valerie: You can actually get Sunder Armor and GSA on her so she's not completely useless.
My favorite build for her is to actually max out persuasion as she levels since it is a class skill, and go weapon focus->Dazzling display, and use her as an AOE debuffer, since her damage will never be that great anyway (it just isn't what she has the stats for).
Octavia is not a utility mage... She's a sneak attack damage dealer. All she needs is Acid Splash for her to deal a ton of damage. And Acid Splash is a touch attack, so goes against a lower AC value, so her 'lack' of overall BAB isn't such a big deal. Slap Precise Shot on her and the needed sneak attack feat (so she can take AT @ lvl 5) and she will grow and grow. She can't do quite as much damage as Nok Nok (who has more attacks per round and higher crit chance), but she's in the back and does have options for buffing and CC so she comes a lot closer than most. Heck she's got solid Dex, so continuing to boost Dex is a solid choice and using a crossbow (not a short bow, no point in a bow with a Str of 10) she can be left on auto for any throw away fights.
One aspect of Valerie is exploiting the way the a.i. works - put her up front and let your other fighters engage once Valerie has been targetted by them. Hammer and anvil, Valerie is the anvil.
Just a shame she has entirely pointless 5 stats in Charisma. Respecced to put those points in Constitution and Wisdom and she becomes much more viable as a tank.
Her stats are not optimised certainly and her saves need work (like all martials except paladins) but she has plenty of constitution as is. One of the things people overlook is that she has a number of odd number stats (dex/con/wis) and so without resppeccing as she develops her stats (initial priority strength) they become far less of an issue, particularly as stat improvement belts/headbands come into play. I'd rather she has a good character/story and her stats reflect that but each to their own in terms of playstyle.
darkfireslide completely misunderstood Valerie: she's almost perfectly designed for tanking. The 13 dex with items will keep up with armor training throughout the game, giving maximum available AC from start to finish. Then you consider a thug dip for dazzling display and also using her charisma as a regent. I would personally drop 19 con to 18 rounding up her intelligence and wisdom for slight bonuses, maybe drop con even further to 16 in order to increase charisma, since throughout the game all of her points in my game go to her charisma. She essentially holds the door against those gigantic zombie cyclopses and I could never deal with the game on challenging or above without funneling the crowds of enemies into her at some choke point. Even with displacement, it's still very hard to keep up. Perhaps Regongar with mirror images and stoneskins could fulfill a similar role.
@@Bhazor Her charisma is useful for dazzling display and applying shaken and fear to enemies. Most enemies late game aren't resistant to those status ailments.
I been using Valerie out of pure lazynes. SO much to learn for first play-through it's easy to just pick what looks like it'll give her defense and stick her in front, call it a day. I want to build a proper tank soon though.
I rather liked the video, even if I don't agree totally with your rankings. I think folks watching this video will at least get an idea of what to possibly expect from the character. Then they can make their own judgements about them after using them. I for one really like Valerie as I like character's that are "flawed" or possibly more "realistic". I've been experimenting with her and she's normally the last party member standing when things go wrong. I like the dynamic's of the pregen characters, flaw's, challenges they have to overcome. Kind of reminds me of the Heroes of the Lance companions in the Dragon Lance books by Margarette Wise and Tracey Hickman. Those champions are by no means ideal either, but the "get r done"! :)
darkfireslide completely misunderstood Valerie: she's almost perfectly designed for tanking. The 13 dex with items will keep up with armor training throughout the game, giving maximum available AC from start to finish. Then you consider a thug dip for dazzling display and also using her charisma as a regent. I would personally drop 19 con to 18 rounding up her intelligence and wisdom for slight bonuses, maybe drop con even further to 16 in order to increase charisma, since throughout the game all of her points in my game go to her charisma. She essentially holds the door against those gigantic zombie cyclopses and I could never deal with the game on challenging or above without funneling the crowds of enemies into her at some choke point. Even with displacement, it's still very hard to keep up. Perhaps Regongar with mirror images and stoneskins could fulfill a similar role.
A brother I know I’m late to the party but I really appreciate the work you put in and how I’m depth you went in to everyone. Really great work. I was wondering if you’d possibly do like a chapter or timestamp for the video to more easily navigate back and forth kind of thing. But really man, kudos. This is a killer/helpful video. Definitely subscribed and will continue watching your videos. Keep up the good work brother! Don’t doubt yourself, your opinion is welcome and valid. Along with honestly being more help than half the crap videos/online posts I’ve seen all in one convenient bundle. Appreciate ya bud!
U are obviously NOT familiar with the system... putting armour on ekun reduces his dex armour bonus. u're better off putting bracers of armour on him than wearing metallic armours
Depends on the armor. There is decent medium armor that gives 4-5 max dex bonus, and as his dexterity gets higher as he levels, you can swap to light armor so he is less encumbered and can perform mobility and athletics checks better.
Valerie's charisma turned out alright in my latest playthrough. I ended up putting points into charisma and giving her charisma boosters. This makes her better as a regent and after investing 2 levels of Thug I was able to use her for a very powerful AOE - the dazzling display. Also it turned out she was superior for diplomacy and intimidate to my main character who had the highest charisma (as paladin), simply because I spec-ed her into this (skill focus and intimidate). Overall Valerie was easily my most reliable character for composition.
This is exactly what I've done. She can't hit shit but she doesn't take any damage either and she can survive if she does, whilst throwing out intimidation to debuff her opponents. She's certainly not optimal but I think people are missing a trick by passing her off as useless, because she sure isn't.
Great video. I appreciate the time, thought & effort you put into this. This helps me understand classes. Funny how your top choice was a Ranger. I found myself frustrated early in the game because of the lack of this class and balance in companions.
You need Valery because noone else is good at taking or avoiding hits. You need Octavia because noone else gives you comparable arcane spell power what is the most powerful versatile thing in the game. You need a Cleric because of the healing. (Harrim or Tristian) You need people who deal damage without relying on spells. There you have multiple possibilities. You need someone competent for each skill. This is for people who want to play with story companions only. I understand that darkfireslide combines several criteria but as he points out, this list is mainly for people who want to play this way. The information in the video is still really good. I just wanted to complement this key aspect. Every party may profit from Linzi. But every party needs Valery and Octavia if you want to have a strong party. No party really needs Jubilost.
To be fair, you can go 1 bard / 1 rogue / 18 wizard on Lindzey for giggles, but yeah, having Octavia is just too good to pass if you're doing only the pre-made characters (and I'm doing that because I don't like seeing stuff like "Mopple" and a bunch of empty space)
@Vampiresoap But what does that help? She isn't as good as a tank as Valery. She can't cast while tanking (because then she needs armor and because of Attacks of Opportunity). And she can't hit anything because she has Strenght 8 and a low BAB as a bard. With that Strength she can't even wear good armor. Amiri, Jaethal or Regongar can definetely be made better tanks than Linzi. Of cause, if you want to play this way, you can. But it is definetely not a good idea if you want to make her shine or a reason why your party would need her.
@Vampiresoap Of cause. But why would you put Linzi in a melee position instead of Regongar, Amiri, Jaethal, Harrim or Ekun's Dog? Those can tank at least as well as Linzi and they deal damage. Linzi doesn't. Summons can tank too. Of cause you can play this way if you want. In my main comment I merely state that Valery is the best tank, Octavia is giving you spells like no one else, that it is a good idea to have a cleric in your party and that you need people who deal damage. I don't understand why your answer to this is: "Linzi can be made into a tank." Yes. But it has nothing to do with the main comment. Also I don't think Linzi is an effective choice for a tank.
Out of curiosity, if you were to build a sword and board fighter (base fighter) using a tower shield. How would you do the stat spread? Keeping a 13 int for combat expertise does limit your flexibility with other stats a bit.
I wouldn't do that with a tower shield. I'd go a Dex-fighter+duelist or crane style (depending on your alignment). Your AC will outshine a tower shield user.
Valerie has one gimmick that redeems her weird Charisma stat - Intimidating Prowess with Dazzling Display and one level of Thug. The sneak attack die is super helpful early game too. Since it's easier to raise two stats by two than one atat by four, the str-cha split scaling for persuasion can get you some good numbers. 18 str and 16 cha is as good as 24 cha on intimidate, for example. It's super weird that there are very few other combat uses for the stat spread plus Atheist. It would be nice if non-caster battle-leader class type existed, but they don't, and Dazzling Display +Thug1 is a one-trick, but it's quite the trick.
Breaks my heart to see Valerie on the bottom of the list. I would maybe have ranked Amiri lower just to save her from the last place.. Reminds me of loosing the lawful when playing a paladin, the epitome of getting gimped.
So my current group is myself as a Paladin (Hospitaler), Amiri - Barb/Fighter (Two-handed), Harrim - Cleric, Ekundayo - Ranger, Valerie - Fighter/Sylvan Sorcerer (with a Mastodon companion), and Octavia Rogue/Wizard/Arcane Trickster. I've got 5 tanks (three characters and two pets), 3 ranged fighters, can mass heal with my main character or with Harrim, buff with Harrim, Valerie, and Octavia, and unlock/disarm just about anything with Octavia. Works pretty well. I'm working on getting Valerie into Eldritch Knight so she can move to frontline fighter, drop Harrim, and bring in Tristan - Mystic Theurge as my third ranged.
A bit late and i'm sure you tried this but what about going into doing what Nerd Commander did and go into Thug for Frightening and play into her Cha with Dazzling Display (not sure it was his original idea but w/e).
Just as an fyi about Nok-Nok, and specifically weapon finesse. In pathfinder tabletop, weapon finesse only allows you to use your dexterity modifier instead of strength for your attack bonus, not your damage, and only with light weapons. There are a small handful of ways to put your dexterity modifier to damage in the tabletop version, but typically they're exclusive to certain races, weapons, or classes. The only caveat to that is a magical enhancement called Agile which can be added to weapons to allow dex instead of str to damage rolls.
Kingmaker uses the Unchained Rogue variant rule, where rogues get the Finesse Training feature at level 3, which allows them to choose a specific weapon then add their Dex mod to damage while using that weapon.
Glad you mentioned Linzi being so good bards are amazingly versatile and the buffs help so much in a game like this. Also Jaethal as much as I like her character her being undead is just absolutely crazy without a proper healer for her because ya she can heal herself but if your healing mid combat its so ineffective its sad and made me drop her from my group completely when I can. Valerie is very underwhelming stat wise and I generally don't user her either. Nice video once again keep up the good work!
It has been two years now, i hope you have realized by now what a trap healing in combat is. A turn spent healing is a turn you're letting the enemy get his in for free, it is almost always better to just kill them fast enough to not need the healing at all and Jaethal is pretty good in that if you spec her right.
Then don't be healing during combat, and if you have to heal during combat there are clerics for that. Evil clerics channel negative energy which works well with Jel. And at level 3-4 Clerics won't harm your party with negative energy.
That wouldn't be a bad party comp. Ideally you want two to three melee capable characters, a cleric or druid for healing, a wizard or sorcerer for crowd control and support, and a "5th character" like a Bard, Inquisitor, or Alchemist to round things out.
I would run 1 main tank, 1 melee DD/off tank, 1 pure DD, 1 arcane caster, 1 healer, the 6th can be anything: bard, ranged, or some other support class.
Use the Forge combat system: the core of a party is the Anvil, Hammer, and Arm. Anvil is anyone who can hold enemies in place and control their movement. This covers tanking *and* mass cc. Valerie is good for this early on, and Amiri can do it later if you build her right. But even Linzi can handle this role with spells like Sleep. Hammer is your primary damage dealer. They just, one by one, single out enemies and take them down. Early on, Amiri is great for this, especially if you remember she can use other weapons besides her Ginormous Sword. I like to give her a Longbow so she can take pot shots while Valerie gets into position and secures aggro, then have Amiri switch weapons and run up from the flank. Of course, a Ekun is also good for this and Nok-Nok is, hands down, the best. A well-built main character could do this too. Lastly, the Arm is your enabler; the character who "swings the hammer" so to speak. They will buff your team and/or debuff the opponents, especially buffing the hammer. Your Clerics and Linzi fill this role best. Beyond that core, everything else is just fine-tuning and supplemental roles. You can have a "backup" of any of those three core roles, but not if it ruins your formation. Eg. If Valerie is your Anvil, Amiri is your Hammer, Linzi is your Arm, and MC is a backup Hammer (maybe a high-damage ranged build), then Amiri or Linzi (via cc spells) can be a backup Anvil if Valerie falls and the MC can be a backup Hammer if Amiri falls. But if your MC is a backup Arm, then if Amiri falls, your formation is broken because you don't have a viable Hammer.
This video was useful to me. I'm playing Pathfinder Kingmaker for the first time, and I've found myself in a position where I'm going to restart the game with a different party composition. You see, I was playing as a wizard. But I picked up Octavia at level 3, and I want her to be in my party because I like the character. I don't see any way to build her into a character except as an arcane trickster. I don't think a 2-wizard party is a good idea, so I'm going to start over. Everyone's just too flimsy. Ekundayo sounds epic, but I haven't actually seen him. I might use an alchemist or an inquisitor on my new start. They seem interesting and are a bit more durable than wizards.
valerie gets a pass from me now. using dazzling display + intimidating prowess and shatter defenses makes her a pretty awesome debuffer. that with cleave, great cleave, cleaving finish, improved (greater) cleaving finish makes her good at clearing low ac mobs. other then that shes not that great.
Throw Coregon Smash on her (Cornugon?) and she can keep almost every enemy in the game in a constant state of Fear as long as she lands a melee hit. Just pump CHA as much as you can and she's relevant the entire game since apparently the devs fucked up and forgot to include fear immunity on a lot of monsters that should have had it.
In commenting before seeing yours, I wanna see how you rank my main man... Tbh, I think Regongar is one of the best companions in this type of Rpg I've used in a while... I always play good neutral or good chaotic during my first playthrough of an rpg...sometimes I never even go evil and even less often lawful, I just rarely find any evil companions likeable because they tend to be unrealistic mustache twirling sadists who can't handle a whiff of selflessness.... With that in mind, I am so surprised by how great he is as a character. I don't often see 'evil' companions who are able to even associate with non-psychopaths. Not only does ol' Reggie tolerate my primarily good party, he is the most charismatic one in the group in terms of writing! I think his "evil" label is a bit harsh. He's a major dick for sure...but in an acceptable way. Yes, hes also bordering on rapey, but he seems to be mostly kidding and targets the strong for his advances. Being straight IRL I always play straight characters...but even so I found Reggie's equal opportunity perviness to be funny. Props to Nok Nok as well. Never thought I'd find a Goblin endearing. As unbearably oversweet or fragile as many good characters are in this game, they do evil well...maybe the best! 3:40 Oh and I will be taking things very personally. Disagreeibg with me, even slightly, is a personal attack and Ill have a red faced, eyes rolling back nerd tantrum if I hear something even slightly different than my opinion. Im a cool guy like that.
I usually take Amiri along, take one more level as barb and then go two handed fighter and never look back, with decent access to lots of feats she becomes quite good at least.
Give her a few levels of rogue and she adds sneak attack on top. Really strong with a reach weapon combined with a decent tank. With that approach she also doesn't particularly need AC, though she can make great use of mithral full plate in combination with Dex buffs and combat reflexes. The downside is lack of rage rounds, but there's a feat for that.
I have to agree about Valerie. I replaced her with a mercenary Paladin and was easily able to match her AC and on TOP of that have all the Paladin abilities.
As Tristian take a few levels of sorcerer and then mystic theurge. he is then a terrific back line member. I have been rolling with a Holy power party and having a relatively easy time. Valerie, Harrim, MC (a frontline war cleric build), Ekun, Tristian (as MT) and Octavia because she is cute and awesome. Most fights I dont even need to do anything but auto attack. even relatively hard fights I can get through with Tristians aoe heals.
If you are not focusing just on battles, but on the game overall - Jaethal is IMO the most usefull companion overall. Best lure bot, best fear spammer (spell focus Necromancy FTW), best scout (highest possible perception skill), overall very high Lore and Knowledge skills for IG skillcheks. The only real advantage Linzi has over Jae - Rogue skills. If you're not a Rogue and not using Oktavia for some strange reasons - Linzi is your pick. But she's a terrible lurer. In that case you should lure enemies with your tank (Valerie or you as a Paladin).
I'm seeing this now, over a year later and after a lot of updates as well as a lot of mods, but I don't really disagree with your ordering even now - looking at it from the point of view of "how vital do I think it is to respec the companion in question" - Enkun and Nok-Nok I don't have any urgency whatsoever to respec. Same with Linzi. I can (and have) handled Jubilost without respecing him but he does benefit from switching him to Grenadier. Still, it's not as vital to change that as making changes to other companions is. Octavia I would always respec eve while keeping her essential core (aiming her towards Arcane Trickster), just because, like you pointed out, Transmutation isn't the ideal specialization. Valerie I like as a character but I will always respec her because Tower Shield Specialist is trash. In fact I would tend not to have any character use a tower shield, ever, just because carrying a boat around is so hampering (if I could get a weightless one, maybe). Amiri is not just a companion in this game she's a Pathfinder "Iconic" (example character). As such I'm reluctant to swap her out of her ginormous sword. It's painful early on though and really respecing her to use anything else would be better (as would making her, say, a Mad Dog and getting a pet). HOWEVER, if you do keep her ginormous sword, it will pay off....eventually. Depending on your choices in the middle (the late middle) of the game. Lots and lots of people make her a polearm user though, so then she can wack things HARD and her squishiness isn't so obvious. Or you can respec her to be less squishy. Or both. I actually have found Jaethal to be fine, if Harrim is also in the party. She can actually hit fairly hard "right out of the box" and her undeaded-ness has helped several times since she doesn't suffer from some of the effects that can really hurt a typical martial (and thus your whole party as they ditch what they're doing to run away, or go down, or be confused, or whatever). Since she's immune to most mind-affecting effects without using any items to boost her, it can be helpful in certain parts of the game. Still, I used her only sparingly.
Thank you for posting this. I just now started playing for the first time and it is a pain to go through all these guide videos and stuff from a year ago or more trying to figure out what is still relevant and what they've patched. Your post let me know all this info still stands, so I appreciate it.
TSS for Valerie is actually not trash; - however: A) It takes quite some while to get her rolling, and Fighters are highly gear-reliant. (Belt of Physical Perfection +8 for the endgame, to get both 14+2 from her quest +2 +8 =26 Strength, and 22 Dex, to fill her AC) B) Fighters (all archetypes) are mostly designed for multi-classing, in any case. - My suggestion would be: TSS 5 SD 4 Thug 1 Traditional Monk 1 , by 11 ( online and - kicking bad ass! ) , into TSS 9 Thug 4 by 18: Giving her Heart of Ira will mean that she can enter and leave her stance at will. C) Apart from Crane Style, Shield Wall is the way to go. (You get 2 AC from SD, plus 2 additional if needed) About everything else is there to bolster her offensive and intimidation prowess. ( Crit Focus, Shatter Defenses, Combat Reflexes, Dreadful Carnage, Ouflank, Power Attack, etc) - Khanda (Pitax) is a fantastic Bastard Sword for her. Until then, buying her a Holy Bastard Sword +2 (for Vordakai/Armag) will have to do. D) With a side-kick , who can take a beating as well (e.g. a Paladin, or Jaethal with a shield) , and Legendary Proportions, she stands at pretty 350 HP by level 18 (plus eventualities, like Stalwart Defense.:P) , and is (on Hard difficulty) extremely hard to hit by Wild Hunt shenanigans; the Tower Shield to Touch AC combined with the solid Dex are in fact about the best you can get when you are not rolling a Sword Saint, or a dedicated Dex tank ( be it Monk, or some type of Aldori multiclass) . - Compared to them, however, she is still about 100 HP ahead, and has significantly higher Fortitude, to compensate.And, as she has Evasion as well: She can completely ignore any AoE that you throw at her, due to Burst Shield, and also wade through Siroccos. Overall: Can a player roll better? Sure. Is Val as a TSS, after the notorious early game, more than decent? Definitely.
@@Badbentham The thing is, even there, other defensive builds will be strictly superior. It's not that you're wrong it's just that slogging through the early period (which is difficult enough) to get to a point where it works and is effective but not as effective as other, non-cheaty options, would be is underwhelming. Valerie is one of my favs and is a mainstay in my parties but never as Tower Shield. That said, as I said, you're not wrong. Everything you said is correct as far as it goes.
10 levels of arcane trickster is the best way to go with Octavia, rest wizard. Giving up a couple wizard feats for 24.5 average damage sneak attack on every damaging spell is worth it. I really wish they didn't put the rogue level on her. She could be pure wizard or eldritch knight build without a rogue level. With the rogue level they kinda lock her in to be an arcane trickster. Even still I rank her above the 1-6 casters. She would be number one if she was pure wiz and her con a little higher.
the funny thing is there is a decent build for val that makes her more useful than Amiri because of her stat spread but it takes multiclass selections.
after 3 play-throughs, I've always used her for tanking.. Valerie's only real mistake is her 19 constitution but she has way above average points at 27 anyway; her 13 dex is deceptive in that the armor training will go toe to toe with +dex items so you will never be missing out on AC; if I could reallocate her points, I'd take con down to 18 or 16 and up her wisdom, round her int, then depending on whether I want her thug level dazzling display, raise charisma to 16 or dump it for more skill points from Int or more Str to carry weight; keep in mind that placing her as a regent you use her charisma (although the regent advisor is the least used for problems); dazzling display with 1 thug level and skill focus persuasion and intimidate will always have a huge impact on living enemies, completely turning fights whenever you bother to use it
??? He has the healing domain which automatically empowers his healing spells. And (though I don't really understand why) he can prepare any of his goddess's domain spells in his domain slots, in particular fire.
Charisma affects channeling. Higher charisma=more points+access to selective channeling feat, which is good because then you're not healing the enemy along with your party in battle. Harrim can't channel in combat without aiding the enemy. Tristian can. It's frustrating that both NPC clerics are poorly built, so that making your own healer is an appealing choice. OTOH, PC Druid makes a lot of sense in the game as a result.
Octavia is amazing. She is second to Ekun in terms of usability. She is better than a full Wizard in every way. Wizards have to spend a resource to do anything meaningful, while Octavia can do acceptable damage with cantrips because she comes with sneak attack. In Kingmaker you are expected to fight more encounters than a tabletop so better resource-less abilities > better resource-intensive abilites. It doesn't matter that octavia is a spell or two behind a full wizard because her better turn by turn performance means she won't have to burn as many spells per combat. Her 8 con is whatever, she's not going to survive any longer with 12 or 14 con in the early game, and late game there are +6 con belts anyway. Octavia is broken by companion standards-- the only reason you don't use Octavia is if you have a Merc or a PC that does her job. Also someone has to use the Star Soldier's Gauntlets, and Octavia is by far and away the best user (unless you're PC is better for it). Transmutation is a fine school, Slow, and Disintegrate are transmuation and having extra DC on Disintegrate can mean the difference between a boss lasting 10 rounds vs 2. Clerics are completely not necessary except for 1 place -- Vordekai's Dungeon. They're spells can be replicated on the cheap by the priest that sell every spell that they can cast (that you care about). Also Harrim is by FAR the weaker cleric. He's a melee off-tank with 8 dexterity. That was literally the worst non-main stat he could've had an 8 in. Hell he could've had 8 STR and it would've been slightly better if only because alot of cleric spells come with size bonuses to str. Dexterity is the king stat for tanking, you need at least 13 base for dodge, and you need at least 16 dexterity to fully utilize mithral full plate. Which means Harrim needs +8 dex enhancement just to fully utilize his armor. Valerie was unusable until late game and you got two back-to-back stupid broken tower shields. That being said at least kinetic knight and slayer somewhat saved Valerie. Also one-handed weapons were broken late game. Tyrant, Perfection, unstoppable Khandi, and all-slayer were so good you could justfy valerie even as a tower shield specialist just so you have more people to hold these broken weapons.
I agree that valerie stats are bad but i disagree about the TS subclass, a correctly built TS wont dps as much as a regular fighter but will be a way better tank.
The problem with TSS is that a regular Fighter can hit similar ACs that a TSS can but without losing 90% of their offense. The only thing a TSS does better is Reflex saves, but who cares?
You kinda want to go 16/16/16 at minimum for DEX, STR and CON if you want that pointless class to work at least somewhat properly. However, you can just focus shield and defense with barbarian dwarf - and that shit gets not only the same AC as fighters, but also defensive rage stances, self-heal AND a flat damage reduction. So yeah, going fighter for tank - is ineffective imo in the first place
Since when is not able wearing armor is "a problem" in RPGs? Tristian is a buff\heal bot. If you want a fighter, there are better fighters. Harrim is a very poor melee fighter + absolutely useless Domains. Tristian on the other hand has some good fire spells (burning hands\fireball etc). The very best boost for Tristian is taking the bow feats, not the armor feats, and able to use some longbows. + his channeling is huge. His favourite meal gives him +1d6 to heal for a day + special items for another 1d6 heals + his CHA boost. Harrim has only 10 CHA and very poor DEX score (even unable to take Crane Style feat). if only Harrim had Negative Channeling - damage living (very OP skill) he would be a good pick
Ekundayo is nice but I don't necessarily need him because I'm a Feyspeaker. I can be closed ranged or long-range whatever I wish, at any moment. AoE too. And actually isn't that squishy as some might think. If you are a Feyspeaker you can be a Mage, Healer,DPS and sub tank in one with only leveling feyspeaker. And you not weak at anything you do. You can also be immune to any poison and the element of your choice if you choose element domain. So you can go with any companions but bring 1 true tank like Val.
if your main character isn't the tank, I don't see any scenario where you won't be needing Valerie in the composition; Amiri is essential early on as the source of damage, unless you yourself are playing a two handed character; rogues need a few levels to get there and magic users are largely helpless at levels 1-4, a sword and board character is also underpowered at early levels
It's basically very hard to miss Ekun cuz his dog literally meets you at the enter point of the location and leads you to him. To miss him you have to completely ignore the dog. Btw - My Valerie has no scars. Why I constantly see Valerie with a scar over her face in peoples videos?
I find it pretty easy to keep up Jaenthal's health by purchasing a ridiculous amounts of Inflict Light Wounds scrolls and just carrying them around to heal her up between fights.
On hard+ she is pointless tho. You don't want to waste your turn on healer just to heal her, when you have to babysit other party members as well, so I ditch her completely and she is basically level 1 for most of the game (apart from her personal quest, since it's kinda fun)
You shouldn't be healing in combat anyways. It's a waste of actions which could be used to prevent the enemy from doing the damage in the first place, be that killing them faster or preventing them from doing as much damage. With that in mind, her health is not so low that you need to heal her in the middle of 99% of encounters. You can heal her adequately after combat. If you do absolutely NEED to heal her in combat, she can cast a higher level inflict wounds spell from a scroll on herself.
I really like Nok Nok, however i noticed that if you dont baby sit him, he will mostly get one shot. However the damage he can do when flanking is insane....
In my game, Tristian has bracers of armor +4 and with buffs, he's still very much a back line party member and I usually will take Harrim on my adventures vs him. But as you point out, he has some very useful features. I agree on Valerie being basically useless. Her and Jaethal get to come on the occasional mission but otherwise just stay at base for me to experiment with builds - I dipped her into stalwart defender.
Respec mod is a god send. I have Jaethal as a monster taction thug, summoning feats + shatter defense cornugan with improved scythe crit. She's the cornerstone of my team and truly the only reason we can hang
Jubilost is ok but I don't like the lip that you get out of him. Plus he's C/N which puts him in the same category as the insane. Where Linzi is my little buddy.
I turned Valerie into a heavy shield bash fighter. She became a lot better with some two weapon fighting perks and bash skills. But I can see why people would not want to use her. If only her subtype could be changed.
Couldn’t help but notice that with all your complaints about Valarie’s reflex saves being terrible it was only 2 less than her fortitude that you praised. While I admit it would be super easy to make a better mercenary she is a strong part of any pregen only party. It isn’t hard to get her ac into the 40s which is great for most encounters.
Wait, you use Octavia with a bow? No wonder you ranked her so low. She gets sneak attack bonus to any spell, even cantrips..and acid splash is a ranged touch attack. Meaning Octavia just casting cantrips will outperform Ekun in ranged fighting ability by a lot(as she hits more reliable and does more damage.)
I was baffled by his rating of Octavia. Her Transmutation actually serves to make her more survivable when she gets in trouble...which you never should if you engage properly. She can out sneak-attack Nok-Nok with cantrips, let alone ray spells. And that 1 level is not nearly as important as made out to be. Because full wizards in this game are gimped because the poor scroll selection means you'll never get proper wizard versatility. Meaning if you want a true power arcanist, you have to play a sorcerer, who is...1 level further behind Octavia. Also, if you get in any sort of combat difficulty, she should have mirror-image+displacement &/or Improved Invis up. Which makes her functionally untouchable. What's more, having a character with full rogue utility w/ 1 level of rogue+ mage spells makes her a great utility character as well as the only magic user worth talking about.
I just finished on challenging mode last night. I used Harrim, Valerie, Octavia, Regongor, and Jathal. Picked up selective channeling on Harrim at 17. Finished game at 17 1/2. Best Party Ever!!! NE Rogue as main character.
Hey Darkfireslide, I really like your Kingmaker content. Now you have ranked each of the companions, will you make a video how to fix Octavia, Amiri and Valerie without destroying RP aspect of the character? There's a respec mod on steam and I would like to see your thought process on how to fix them. I agree that Linzi is great, people are just lazy to utilize her support and Valerie and Amiri are underpowered due pre-gen to stats early on and bad feat selection.
The Mod to Respec is extremely useful(since some abilities don’t work like you might think or even should work) But baseline characters; Valerie: Have your main character be a tank lol. Or, go for a trip build, this would give all you surrounding teammates attacks of opportunity. Octavia: one of the better built characters, go arcane trickster and you have a wizard with sneak attack with acid splash, very nasty! But you are right about the school specialization and having a lower caster level :-( Amiri is a glass canon, use defensive stance and Heavy Armor with a level dip of fighter and go Mithral full plate when you can. Ekun is a Beast as an archer, give him the “troll bow” and watch the enemy mobs die lol
I always use Valerie,Harrim,Tristan,Linzi,N0k-nok,and my guy who is a fauchard specialized 2-hand sub class and all iv'e ever had is this masterwork fauchard and still hits like a mac-truck.I mean what is better than one cleric,except 2 and one that can also do some tanking.
Any caster with Resist Energy and Death Ward should be in the top 3. Ekun is only indispensable for the pressure plate maze and to scout/charge with a fast pet.
My usual companions: Fighter: Harrim (sometimes Valerie) and Amiri Ranger: Ekundayo Rogue: Linzi (always set) Caster: Octavia or Jubilost So, my most important companions that are about always in the party: Amiri, Ekundayo and Linzi. As for the others: Jaethal replaces Amiri sometimes. Nok-Nok is a great Rogue but enters the game late and I don't want to replace Linzi. So he comes for Amiri when necessary Tristian: replaces Octavia when necessary Regongar: I almost never use him. Would replace Amiri if necessary. So, the standard setup is: Main character (Aldori Swordlord), Harrim, Amiri, Ekundayo, Linzi, Octavia. First 3 have melee, last 3 ranged weapons assigned.
why should you want Valerie to deal any damage - it's not a problem for her role (as tanking is determined by prebuild). But for tank you want better defences then she has - thats the problem. Also, some disables would be nice to have (as you lack damage), but she lacks int too... i saw someone posted multiclassing her into druid. Gonna check.
Not being able to deal damage is a problem for most classes. Druids have their animal companions and summons, and Clerics deal damage indirectly through buffs and keeping the party alive, or crowd control. Fighters are also capable of dealing tremendous damage. You can run a Paladin with only a slight AC deficit compared to Valerie and still have that Paladin deal hundreds of damage every combat while also having better saves. This isn't an MMO. When you only get 6 characters, it is expensive to put someone like Valerie on your team. Jaethal is a better tank since she can heal, has better Dex, saves, and can cast spells. Valerie is just a high AC number, and the fact that you can replace her with a 20 point buy mercenary and have a significantly better character is just sad. Admittedly, it's not her fault Tower Shield Specialist is probably the worst class in the game.
@@darkfireslide when you play party - there roles come to play. Having a good tank (and a semitank) allow your damagedealers shooting arrows naked. Tanks only purpose is to mitigate incoming damage, in ideal - take nothing. This greatly reduce healing needed to recover and provide tons of time to regroup/buff etc. Would it be great for tank to deal damage? Yes, if: 1) it's required for his tanking (like generating agro); 2) he takes no damage/control (no need extra defences/saves); If no - then go more defences and ignore stupid damage. For damage - there are summons and other party members. The difference for every extra AC is ridiculously strong - while having 10/d20 is 50% hitchance (200% ehp), +9ac will make 1/d20 = 5% chance (2000% ehp). Same for accuracy - it's much more important then raw damage until you get close to the cap (18+/d20 over enemies' ac).
@@nightyonetwothree did you even read what he replied? 0.0 She's not the worst at being a tank, but it's very simple to build a better tank than her. That's the problem. And only high AC isn't everything... low willpower means she will easily get feared and she won't tank shit if she is runnin around in fear as the rest of your party gets spanked to death Also I think how aggro works in this game, if an enemy misses too often, they will switch target, so you would need something to offtank anyway. Again the problem is not that her tanking is super bad, the problem is you can build something better very easily. I still love Val tho :) She's a cool and interesting character storywise, but purely looking at stats it's not that great. Trying the Dazzling Display build atm, heard that makes her pretty good since you utilitize her "initially wasted" CHA and just demoralize and fear everyone Heck, who knows its even a design choice. For a new player, Val is THE obvious go-to tank. Harrim just feels like he sucks at tanking and Jaethal can be good I reckon (never used her), but both need some knowledge on how to build them properly to make them work. It kinda forces you to think about the game and how it works. As a newb, Val feels like a decent tank, but still doesnt feel great at taking damage and doing her job. Hence the game forces you to come up with creative stuff. Maybe I'm just making things up, but it could be a design choice in such a way. It's kinda like with the Lonely Shambler Mound in Old Sycamore. I felt so bad for the thing when I read the little backstory on the body. But I later realised what actually happened in that situation, which completely changes if you read carefully what the notes say and check in the Bestiary what the Shambler is and how it's "created". Plus that the notes clearly hint that the guy was NOT skilled at what he was doing. Great writing imo :)
Backlash for you opinion on Valerie: As Nerd Commando demonstrated you can give her a level of Thug+Dazling Display, a level of Vivisectionist for the Mutagen, a level of Trad. Monk for Crane style and she becomes an extremely hard tank and a good debuffer. Yes she will never do any damage, but on higher difficulties you either are tank or dd, trying to do both is pointless. Yes I am one of the crazy masochistic "Unfair Difficulty" players, and Valerie is the only story companion I (nearly) always have in my team.
At the start of the video I talk about how I didn't consider multiclass options because you can make pretty much every character better by multiclassing, but at that point, why not just roll your own character that makes sense to be all of those things instead of making honorable Valerie a Thug and a Vivi? That's why I ranked her so lowly. Anything she can do a better built 20 point buy character can do better
You don't need some crazy multiclassed Valerie for her to be a good tank and debuffer. Just take the Charisma-based fighter feats (Cornugon Smash, Dreadful Carnage, etc) and maybe take a few Stalwart Defender builds to take advantage of her really high Con (yes this is "multiclassing" but it's very lore-friendly IMO and she seems to be built to go into this class anyway).
Great video. Thank you very much. It may be my setup, but I find that your mic level is tad low. I guess others can confirm or deny this. But thank you again for a well presented and informative video :)
Nice vid, I agree with most of them except Jaethal I think she should be higher because if you class her into your main frontline tank as a Barb Invul Rager with guardian stance and get scrolls to heal her, you got a frontline tank that is immune to a shed lone of status effects and a barb who does not suffer any fatigue effects and I agree with your current barb she weak as a barbs go so shift her into a sacred hunter for an extra pet and then she ok. but there not min-maxed chrs at all and I am fine with that.
Sadly Valerie is the only front line fighter character that isn't a PC so unless you're going to get a custom character Valerie is your only real option for a front line character.
1. You ranked Ekun first. Very good pick, mainly because he offers both frontline support (and, as you mentioned the only way to get aggro is to have a solid, wide frontline, so that enemies can't actually get through you) and solid damage. His buffs become insane when he gets sense vitals, which is just plain ridiculous. 2. Harrim is far, far better than Tristran for two reasons - firstly he's not going away at anytime (at least so far, I'm in chapter V) and secondly channeling heals are good only out of combat. They heal everything, enemies included (at least that's what I noticed way back when after launch and never used channeling in combat afterwards, so maybe they changed/patched it).What you need is a solid piece of steel to get to you and cast that TOUCH ranged heal. And yeah, you're gonna get hit if you cast again or move out of range. My Harrim is currently at 38AC. And I tried armor proficiency and arcane armor or whatever that casting feat is called for wizards and nope, Tristran can't cast crap if he's wearing anything. 3. Linzi - oh, my dear Linzi. My favourite character. She doesn't excel at anything, but can just do almost everything so damn well. Can't open a chest? Sing a song. Can't hit an enemy? Sing a song. Lost some hitpoints? Cast a heal. What I did with her is I gave her martial weapon prof, gave her a solid belt to all physical stats (str included), gave her a composite longbow, all the standard archery feats and she does quite reliable damage. But the best thing in the world is Necromancy. Combat start, cast haste, cast slow, watch your lines clash. As soon as that happens, cast fear. Then watch everything explode from attacks of opportunity as they try to run away. Masterpiece :). I gave her specialization in necromancy for that trick alone. Also the level 5 mist cutting down will saves to zero? Well, seems to be bugged or at least used to be, as it shouldn't affect my own characters, but once it gets you... Man, you're gonna have a bad day with -10 will. She is actually my number two on the list. 4.Nok Nok - Now here's where we part ways, because Nok Nok. Stabby stabby? He's just perfect. His lines whenever he decides to chime in during conversations are the shit, his build is insanity squared, his stats are beyond imagination. He's actually my archmage now, the little Nok Nok. He's wearing archmages robe and he loves it. 39 AC roaming frontline like the boss he is cutting off everybodys' legs. The damage just keeps piling up faster than you can add the numbers. His sneak and trickery allow you to open everything everywhere, no questions asked. Nok Nok sees, Nok Nok keeps. He's definitely the first character I take for any team composition imaginable. Also, later in the video, you mention that you ranked other characters above Nok Nok because they have buffs and debuffs. Nok Nok can cast debuffs, they're called "you die" and are on every level. He also has crowd control spells like "you explode" and "no crowd left" xD. Also, there is a Will Save, but I heaven't seen anybody with a Nok Nok save.
There's one single reason why Tristan is much better than you think: He has selective channeling feat, which means his healing burst and undead burst only affects allies and enemies.
Amiri - You actually missed the point with her. Just skip the bloody sword, go with greataxe (which will give you an awesome bonus during the troll quest, which can be a bitch), use the offensive rage (but without the def debuff, can't remember the name) and then just stack the crap out of her with damage reduction. Cast stoneskin and displacement on her and she's basically indestructible. She can withstand so much pain it's not even funny. You can entirely skip Valerie and use Amiri and the party damage sponge. Healing her is incredibly easy due to damage reduction (which is king). If you could slap adamantine whatever on her, she could potentially be indestructible. Constitution is so overrated. The only problem you get is the number of heals you can cast per turn and constitution doesn't help with that at all. What helps is AC, which is basically useless against all hard encounters, because enemies get plain stupid plot bonuses to everything (Armag +43 attack, aye?), which means damage reduction is the way to go. Armag cut Valerie to ribbons in two rounds even though she had like 41AC, but just couldn't deal enough damage in to punch through my heal spam on Amiri just because she had like 25/- damage reduction. I had Linzi and Harrim cast heals every damn turn and he couldn't get through. Then Sunder Armor finally landed and Nok Nok did, what Nok Noks usually do - he cut his legs off.
1. Ekun also gets a pet wolf. The dialogue there made me chuckle so much, that I instantly swapped Ekun into my party after that and never regreted it :D 2. Harrim fucked up a couple of side quests for me (because of his "we're all gonna die anyway, so what's the point") and that's why I'm not using him if I'm running a good party (evil - be my guest, Harrim, you beardy manly man) 3. Yep, Linzi is too adorable not to take. And she can't die die, which is crucial when it comes to having that turned on 4. Nok Nok is brutal, yeah, though again I wouldn't take him into a good playthrough. Now when it comes evil or neutral... >:D Hello Harrim, my old friend, Nok Nok has come to you again... :)
I'm currently running Harrim, Nok Nok, Linzi, Jaethal (grabbed her along for a side quest, swapped Ekun) and Valerie with my lawful good paladin. Still works like a charm. Funny how bless, good hope, haste and some 'eavy metal from Linzi turns that team into an instant murder squadron. I'm considering leaving Jaethal in just for shits and giggles to spam summon undead from both her and Harrim and swarm everything with hordes of undead while Nok Nok cuts everybodys' legs off running between them ;). But truth be told she ain't even close to what Ekun can do. I remember the bitchy fight with one of the sisters, when she just sucked my whole team dry on all stats and he two-shot her with that lucky bow (x4 crit). 19-20x4 with no crit confirmation roll is kind of broken.
One reason I thought Tristian was okay (I have not decided between him and Harrim for certain), was because he is squishy, will be WAY in the back. So far back, that you can position his Channel Energy to ONLY heal your party, and *maybe* 1-2 enemies. I find this WAY easier than spacing a Fireball, or Sleep, etc. - because I can make MY characters stand still! Enemies are always all over the place, and I find AOE effects very difficult to pull off. FWIW, I hate hate hate the way this game has no 5 foot step, and movement is fluid, not turn-based.
I have to give a shout out to the call of the wild mod on vortex. They added a bunch of classes and fixed a lot of the specific complaints in this video especially when it comes to Amiri and Valerie. also darkfireslide is correct, Tower shield specialist is one of those sub classes that is just a pure downgrade from the regular class. Fighter easily has the feats to spare to get tower shield feat and losing +4 to hit and damage for some reflex savings throws makes no sense at all.
I think the problem a lot of people have with Octavia is that they try to play her like a DPS Wizard. She's not, she's an Arcane Trickster. She's an amazing trapmonkey and buffer/debuffer, but she's not a pure Wizard. If you focus on her skills and use her as a backup caster she's super useful. Disclaimer: I frequently play Arcane Tricksters, so I'm used to the build.
Yo anytips
I’m lvl 11 she mostly do
Haste+web+greater invisability+ give a party member a +2 ability score boost.
She is not useless bet I get a feeling I could do more with her.
Octavia can be amazing as a dps tho, spells benefit from Dex too, in fact using her base rougue class she can deal some insane sneak spell damage.
My dude is sweating buckets making this list. It's okay man, don't need to be nervous! Good list!
xD
lol.. dude chill it's ok .. it'll be ok .. calm down 😊👍..lol😭😆😂
On Tristan: Armor does interfere, even with the proper feat (Eccles). Found that out the hard way. Do NOT waste a feat, your spellcasting is entirely disabled if you wear any type of armor.
Yeah, I though about dipping into fighter too for Tristian, so I saved, did that, put armor on and - spells not working, great. So I've gotten insanely lucky with my save-scumming :D
Dipped into fighter, noticed that, had to load a save from an hour and a half earlier.
Best thing to do with Tristian since he can't wear armor is to multiclass him with Empyreal Sorceror, then go into Mystic Theurge. He'll have a ridiculous amount of spells (although he'll never be able to cast the highest level sorceror or cleric spells.)
Giving Tristian one or two levels of Monk also works.
Too many of the ingame skills, feats, spells, and classes lack proper information on what they do or can't do
Just as an FYI, for Jaethal, her HP is based on her charisma since she is undead.
I agree about Linzi. Maybe some people aren't familiar with playing a bard or having one in your party. They make everyone else better at what they do, while ALSO being able to play the JOAT for the party.
About Jaethal: Undead use charisma for constitution score, including for bonus hit points. Also Jaethal is one of the best debuff focused characters in the game (together with Jubilost with curse bomb), esp. if you enlarge her or give her a reach weapon. Getting half your inquisitor level to intimidate checks makes her a menace with Curmegeon Strike, Dazzling display and the follow up feat to dazzling display whose name I just forgot. Basically every opponent will be shaken, always. Add to that all the undead immunities, and that she can't die-die, she is really strong. If you multiclass her into 3-4 levels of Thug once they fix the bugs....
Also Jaethal does not need other party members with the same teamwork feats, all she needs is another character threatening the same opponents, even a summon will do.
People completely miss out on the utility of Valerie having high Charisma, being an unstoppable damage sponge, and the ability to constantly frighten gobs of enemies
darkfireslide completely misunderstood Valerie: she's almost perfectly designed for tanking. The 13 dex with items will keep up with armor training throughout the game, giving maximum available AC from start to finish. Then you consider a thug dip for dazzling display and also using her charisma as a regent. I would personally drop 19 con to 18 rounding up her intelligence and wisdom for slight bonuses, maybe drop con even further to 16 in order to increase charisma, since throughout the game all of her points in my game go to her charisma.
She essentially holds the door against those gigantic zombie cyclopses and I could never deal with the game on challenging or above without funneling the crowds of enemies into her at some choke point. Even with displacement, it's still very hard to keep up. Perhaps Regongar with mirror images and stoneskins could fulfill a similar role.
Armour does affect Tristan's ability to cast. Not channel energy, but equipping armour greys out all spellcasting .. I know I tried giving him a level in fighter just so that he can equip the blessed path armour.
2 years later and STILL very helpful, thank you very, very much.
oh nok nok is a monster would not go into a fight without him
You're welcome, man
I feel like you are vastly underrating Octavia and arcane trickster in general. She can get arcane trickster as her 5th level, and has massive damage output with her 1st level spells doing around 8d6 at 5th level. Yes, she is very slightly behind on casting progression, but it is more than made up for with her bonus damage. When you hit 14th level and cast improved invisibility on her, ALL of her spells will be doing a bonus 7d6 damage. I think that more than makes up for having to wait 1 level for the next spell level.
Octavia also does nice damage on her spells from sneak attack damage. The problem I find is that there is not really another character to compare to Octavia arcane wise.
Arcane Trickster also makes Octavia by far the safest choice for disabling traps. Once I pick her up, she's always in my party.
Octavia is great, but screw Arcane Trickster. Stop at maybe 6 levels of rogue, you need no more... maybe even 5. All you have to do is keep up with her Intelligence and make sure to put skill points in Trickery so she can stealth, open locks and find traps. Beyond that, just raise her wizard levels and she is pretty awesome. What you really want her to have is Evasion and after that, no more rogue levels are required.
Regongar will only get Dragonkind 1. The Eldritch Scion bloodlines give spells and since Magus only gets up to 6th level spells, they can't actually cast the level 7 - 9 spells their bloodline gives them.
Jaethal is one of the best if not the best evil companion, actually.
As a spontaneous caster her Cure spells don't take any spell slots, not that you'd ever use her for healing anyway as she's a melee DPS character at heart. Channeling Negative Energy is also not necessary, she can cure herself with Inflict Wounds just fine. With the Judgments she can buff her AC up to keep up with your main tank and even give you respectable levels of DR and Fast Healing by the end. Even if she goes down, she can't ever die (unless you do her good ending).
She's also an amazing skill monkey, wins all your Perception and Intimidation checks (who's gonna say "no" to the psycho undead judge lady?), is totally immune to all mind-affecting stuff and poisons (suck it souleaters), gets Greater Bane at lvl 12, can cast Greater Invisibility on herself, has weapon proficiency to scythes with 4x crit multiplier from her deity etc etc.
You got Ekun right. He is FRIGHTENING. I have a paladin, but I've kept Ekun on his original path and he is far and away the most dangerous PC in the party, probably dealing x3-4 more damage than anyone else. Add the wolf who has the 2nd highest AC (after Valerie), a scary attack bonus, outrageous damage, knockdown and speed to get behind an enemy quickly to create a flank, and the pair are invaluable in a fight. Further, there are lots of great bows in the game for him to have. He is so awesome, I'd thought to play the game again with a ranger and s wolf companion and just watch the game to tell me to piss off.
You don't give armor prof to tristian, you give him mage armor from one of your casters. You have to babysit him during combat, but he is an absolute beast if you can manage him. He is way better than harrim imo.
Just give the man a bracers of armor +5 since they seem to rain from the sky from act 4
Give him a crossbow and have him shoot from the back lines instead of running up with his scimitar and no-armor.
Just remove the quarterstaff from Tristian and make sure he has a crossbow and bracers. If you play your characters right he shouldn't really take any melee damage, careful positioning against ranged damage though will be needed from time if it looks like he is going to be focused. As he has decent domain spell choices, he is also capable of doing ok AOE damage particular if you also have Octavia in your group.
Hate Harrim and he is obnoxious. Trustian is so very superior AND there are some very good options for keeping him out of harm's way.
Dead on. Harrim is annoying and useless by comparison. Even his quest line is annoying. Frequently enough, I just parked Tristan at the back of the fight and had him flash heal. Early on, it's pretty effective in a large fight.
The most important function in a list like this is to let me know what classes not to choose with my main, so that I don't stack classes in my party when I decide who I want to take.
Not trying to dump on you, but a lot of your conclusions here seem to show a lack of underlying knowledge of how the game works, and how specific features function (in the 'this ability does this' rather than the 'wrong bad fun way').
I thought a lot of your points were pretty well thought out (and also rank Val and Amiri at the bottom of the normal party members), but a few things jumped out pretty specifically.
Octavia's sneak attack capabilities for instance come into play, on a ranged touch attack, any time two melee characters are attacking the same target. She doesn't bring quite the DPS of Nok Nok, but her reliability, ability to remain in the back line, and casting abilities (only a single level behind a wizard, on par with a sorcerer) make her arguably one of the most well built characters in the game. Yes the low con hurts - but by level 6-7 I was swimming in belts of constitution I could put on her - and took toughness rather than improved initiative to further shore up her defenses (to say nothing of how amazingly powerful mirror image is at the start of a dungeon). She has arguably the most reliable DPS in the game. Trading level of casting on a wizard for 7d6 sneak attack is pretty powerful. An archer does more damage overall in most circumstances, but she brings a lot of other stuff to the table.
Similarly, placing Jaethal low on the list is really vexing, because she provides her own healing pretty consistently, lots of DPS, great skills (including trap spotting) and good DPS. I consider her only significant weakness to be her reliance on class features you need to use (i.e. micro management), especially since being undead means she's utterly immune to a huge array of damaging and debilitating effects in the late game. She gets bonus hit points from Charisma score. Her lack of constitution score is literally an advantage you can exploit with cloudkill. It costs her nothing.
Combat healing - outside of swift action healing - is almost never worthwhile last levels 1-3 (and is questionable there).
Great comment, unfortunately, this dude doesn't seem to respond to comments. Kinda makes having a youtube channel pointless.
Fully agreed. Octavia is awesome. Accomplished sneak attacker, WIZ until Arcane Trickster. Sneak Attack damage on *disintegrate*? Which is in her favored school? With Sense Vitals on? Oh, yes please. Really high numbers are only required on the really dangerous enemies, anyway; and they require mico. For everything else just have her autocast her cantrips; as her ranged touch hits more reliably than weapons. If left to their own devices, the party swarms the same enemy, so you get really good damage on your level 0 spells through flanking. I typically give Linzi Arcane Trickster, too; albeit later.
NokNok certainly outmurders any other melee companion you get, and he's hilarious to boot, but he is a definite glass cannon and gets far less options to protect himself than Octavia gets. Having said all this, by the end; Amiri can be devastating. Amiri tends to get hurt too quickly early game, but... Where NokNok kills big targets superfast, Amiri with Greater Cleaving Finish, a good reach weapon and a +10 bonus to STR will murder the chaff like it's nobody's business. Give her two levels of 2-handed fighter and you're golden. I don't remember where you get it, but there's a +2 oversized greatclub somewhere. Use that, enrage with enlarge person and go to town. You get minimum damage in the 50's.
It seems to be that Valerie, with her Intelligence of 9, designed herself in this game.
It's weird because based on her dialogue and wit she should have at least decent intelligence. Compare that to Amiri who is the hulk smash character whose intelligence is 10, which seems acceptable. But is Amiri more intelligent than Valerie? Hmm not sure about that one.
You have a similar problem in all roleplaying games because is 10 the average of all people in the world, or is it the average of adventurers (who are probably on average more remarkable)?
@@mrbouncelol I think 10 is average, so about 100IQ, and every point of int below or above that is about 10 IQ points. So a character with 18 int is an Einstein-level savant, while a character with an int of 7 is just above mentally disabled.
@@mrbouncelol To be fair, it seems the game values knowledge about the world more. Amiri is a great hunter and has a lot of experiance out in the world, compared to Valerie who lived a fairly sheltered life.
Plus the fact that Valerie purposefully rejects a more intelectual outlook on life in general.
Atheism with Charisma and Strength is a but of a tricky one. Lore-wise it squares with the backstory, but not a ton of options to fully use everything in a build. There is the feat that adds Str bonus to Persuasion checks, and the Thug feat that adds Frighten to intimidate on high-rolls, namely Dazzling Display. As a mid-range aelf-aoe, it synergizes fairly well with Constitution and Tower Shield. It's sort of the only combat use for Charisma on Valerie, since Bard and Magus would completely waste the Tower Shield Specialist pick.
@@mtaur4113 Sorcerer is not bad especially if you go the celestial bloodline for bonus resistances and focus on transmutation to make Valerie harder to kill.
You just shouldn't make her an offensive caster is all.
Could you do a Kingdom management guide?
Honestly, it's better to give Tristian bracers of armor instead since his str is way too low for heavy armor, and they'll go up to +2 by the time he's level 5-7.
Edit: On Valerie: You can actually get Sunder Armor and GSA on her so she's not completely useless.
My favorite build for her is to actually max out persuasion as she levels since it is a class skill, and go weapon focus->Dazzling display, and use her as an AOE debuffer, since her damage will never be that great anyway (it just isn't what she has the stats for).
Could you make a video of "must have spells" for your playthrough?
i build valeri as a thug tank that frigthens everyone i works out for me
Oh shit darkfireslide i remember i used to watch you when i played eu4. now im binging kingmaker so good to see you again.
Octavia is not a utility mage... She's a sneak attack damage dealer. All she needs is Acid Splash for her to deal a ton of damage. And Acid Splash is a touch attack, so goes against a lower AC value, so her 'lack' of overall BAB isn't such a big deal. Slap Precise Shot on her and the needed sneak attack feat (so she can take AT @ lvl 5) and she will grow and grow. She can't do quite as much damage as Nok Nok (who has more attacks per round and higher crit chance), but she's in the back and does have options for buffing and CC so she comes a lot closer than most. Heck she's got solid Dex, so continuing to boost Dex is a solid choice and using a crossbow (not a short bow, no point in a bow with a Str of 10) she can be left on auto for any throw away fights.
Subscribed just off the strength of how much work this took. Really appreciate you taking the time to put this together dude.
One aspect of Valerie is exploiting the way the a.i. works - put her up front and let your other fighters engage once Valerie has been targetted by them. Hammer and anvil, Valerie is the anvil.
Yup, she's the only tank the game gives us, so I'd just build her into a brick wall to grab aggro and send in the DDs is the second wave.
Just a shame she has entirely pointless 5 stats in Charisma. Respecced to put those points in Constitution and Wisdom and she becomes much more viable as a tank.
Her stats are not optimised certainly and her saves need work (like all martials except paladins) but she has plenty of constitution as is. One of the things people overlook is that she has a number of odd number stats (dex/con/wis) and so without resppeccing as she develops her stats (initial priority strength) they become far less of an issue, particularly as stat improvement belts/headbands come into play. I'd rather she has a good character/story and her stats reflect that but each to their own in terms of playstyle.
darkfireslide completely misunderstood Valerie: she's almost perfectly designed for tanking. The 13 dex with items will keep up with armor training throughout the game, giving maximum available AC from start to finish. Then you consider a thug dip for dazzling display and also using her charisma as a regent. I would personally drop 19 con to 18 rounding up her intelligence and wisdom for slight bonuses, maybe drop con even further to 16 in order to increase charisma, since throughout the game all of her points in my game go to her charisma.
She essentially holds the door against those gigantic zombie cyclopses and I could never deal with the game on challenging or above without funneling the crowds of enemies into her at some choke point. Even with displacement, it's still very hard to keep up. Perhaps Regongar with mirror images and stoneskins could fulfill a similar role.
@@Bhazor Her charisma is useful for dazzling display and applying shaken and fear to enemies. Most enemies late game aren't resistant to those status ailments.
I been using Valerie out of pure lazynes. SO much to learn for first play-through it's easy to just pick what looks like it'll give her defense and stick her in front, call it a day. I want to build a proper tank soon though.
FYI, put umd onto valerie and she can solo the game on any difficulty. Valerie is your belt of perfection +2/4/6/8 choice as well.
I rather liked the video, even if I don't agree totally with your rankings. I think folks watching this video will at least get an idea of what to possibly expect from the character. Then they can make their own judgements about them after using them. I for one really like Valerie as I like character's that are "flawed" or possibly more "realistic". I've been experimenting with her and she's normally the last party member standing when things go wrong. I like the dynamic's of the pregen characters, flaw's, challenges they have to overcome. Kind of reminds me of the Heroes of the Lance companions in the Dragon Lance books by Margarette Wise and Tracey Hickman. Those champions are by no means ideal either, but the "get r done"! :)
darkfireslide completely misunderstood Valerie: she's almost perfectly designed for tanking. The 13 dex with items will keep up with armor training throughout the game, giving maximum available AC from start to finish. Then you consider a thug dip for dazzling display and also using her charisma as a regent. I would personally drop 19 con to 18 rounding up her intelligence and wisdom for slight bonuses, maybe drop con even further to 16 in order to increase charisma, since throughout the game all of her points in my game go to her charisma.
She essentially holds the door against those gigantic zombie cyclopses and I could never deal with the game on challenging or above without funneling the crowds of enemies into her at some choke point. Even with displacement, it's still very hard to keep up. Perhaps Regongar with mirror images and stoneskins could fulfill a similar role.
A brother I know I’m late to the party but I really appreciate the work you put in and how I’m depth you went in to everyone. Really great work. I was wondering if you’d possibly do like a chapter or timestamp for the video to more easily navigate back and forth kind of thing. But really man, kudos. This is a killer/helpful video. Definitely subscribed and will continue watching your videos. Keep up the good work brother! Don’t doubt yourself, your opinion is welcome and valid. Along with honestly being more help than half the crap videos/online posts I’ve seen all in one convenient bundle. Appreciate ya bud!
Personally, I use Tristian more than Harrim due to the channels. In addition, I normally use Amiri and Val as my frontline fighters.
U are obviously NOT familiar with the system... putting armour on ekun reduces his dex armour bonus. u're better off putting bracers of armour on him than wearing metallic armours
Depends on the armor. There is decent medium armor that gives 4-5 max dex bonus, and as his dexterity gets higher as he levels, you can swap to light armor so he is less encumbered and can perform mobility and athletics checks better.
Valerie's charisma turned out alright in my latest playthrough. I ended up putting points into charisma and giving her charisma boosters. This makes her better as a regent and after investing 2 levels of Thug I was able to use her for a very powerful AOE - the dazzling display. Also it turned out she was superior for diplomacy and intimidate to my main character who had the highest charisma (as paladin), simply because I spec-ed her into this (skill focus and intimidate). Overall Valerie was easily my most reliable character for composition.
This is exactly what I've done. She can't hit shit but she doesn't take any damage either and she can survive if she does, whilst throwing out intimidation to debuff her opponents. She's certainly not optimal but I think people are missing a trick by passing her off as useless, because she sure isn't.
Jaethal is undead so her charisma is her con...
I love Jaethal and always start multiclassing her with Slayer-Deliverer at level 5. Works really good.
Great video. I appreciate the time, thought & effort you put into this. This helps me understand classes. Funny how your top choice was a Ranger. I found myself frustrated early in the game because of the lack of this class and balance in companions.
You need Valery because noone else is good at taking or avoiding hits.
You need Octavia because noone else gives you comparable arcane spell power what is the most powerful versatile thing in the game.
You need a Cleric because of the healing. (Harrim or Tristian)
You need people who deal damage without relying on spells. There you have multiple possibilities.
You need someone competent for each skill.
This is for people who want to play with story companions only. I understand that darkfireslide combines several criteria but as he points out, this list is mainly for people who want to play this way. The information in the video is still really good. I just wanted to complement this key aspect. Every party may profit from Linzi. But every party needs Valery and Octavia if you want to have a strong party. No party really needs Jubilost.
To be fair, you can go 1 bard / 1 rogue / 18 wizard on Lindzey for giggles, but yeah, having Octavia is just too good to pass if you're doing only the pre-made characters (and I'm doing that because I don't like seeing stuff like "Mopple" and a bunch of empty space)
You are doing only pre-maide characters to avoid seeing posts from me? ;D
Why else would I? :D
@Vampiresoap But what does that help? She isn't as good as a tank as Valery. She can't cast while tanking (because then she needs armor and because of Attacks of Opportunity). And she can't hit anything because she has Strenght 8 and a low BAB as a bard. With that Strength she can't even wear good armor. Amiri, Jaethal or Regongar can definetely be made better tanks than Linzi.
Of cause, if you want to play this way, you can. But it is definetely not a good idea if you want to make her shine or a reason why your party would need her.
@Vampiresoap Of cause. But why would you put Linzi in a melee position instead of Regongar, Amiri, Jaethal, Harrim or Ekun's Dog? Those can tank at least as well as Linzi and they deal damage. Linzi doesn't. Summons can tank too.
Of cause you can play this way if you want. In my main comment I merely state that Valery is the best tank, Octavia is giving you spells like no one else, that it is a good idea to have a cleric in your party and that you need people who deal damage.
I don't understand why your answer to this is: "Linzi can be made into a tank." Yes. But it has nothing to do with the main comment. Also I don't think Linzi is an effective choice for a tank.
Out of curiosity, if you were to build a sword and board fighter (base fighter) using a tower shield. How would you do the stat spread? Keeping a 13 int for combat expertise does limit your flexibility with other stats a bit.
I wouldn't do that with a tower shield. I'd go a Dex-fighter+duelist or crane style (depending on your alignment). Your AC will outshine a tower shield user.
Valerie has one gimmick that redeems her weird Charisma stat - Intimidating Prowess with Dazzling Display and one level of Thug. The sneak attack die is super helpful early game too. Since it's easier to raise two stats by two than one atat by four, the str-cha split scaling for persuasion can get you some good numbers. 18 str and 16 cha is as good as 24 cha on intimidate, for example. It's super weird that there are very few other combat uses for the stat spread plus Atheist. It would be nice if non-caster battle-leader class type existed, but they don't, and Dazzling Display +Thug1 is a one-trick, but it's quite the trick.
I would love a time stamp for the different characters.
Breaks my heart to see Valerie on the bottom of the list. I would maybe have ranked Amiri lower just to save her from the last place.. Reminds me of loosing the lawful when playing a paladin, the epitome of getting gimped.
So my current group is myself as a Paladin (Hospitaler), Amiri - Barb/Fighter (Two-handed), Harrim - Cleric, Ekundayo - Ranger, Valerie - Fighter/Sylvan Sorcerer (with a Mastodon companion), and Octavia Rogue/Wizard/Arcane Trickster. I've got 5 tanks (three characters and two pets), 3 ranged fighters, can mass heal with my main character or with Harrim, buff with Harrim, Valerie, and Octavia, and unlock/disarm just about anything with Octavia. Works pretty well. I'm working on getting Valerie into Eldritch Knight so she can move to frontline fighter, drop Harrim, and bring in Tristan - Mystic Theurge as my third ranged.
Could listen to this all day.
A bit late and i'm sure you tried this but what about going into doing what Nerd Commander did and go into Thug for Frightening and play into her Cha with Dazzling Display (not sure it was his original idea but w/e).
I love it how Nok Nok is smarter than most of your companions. Hell, Valerie is just as clever as MINSC!
Lmao
Not boo tho
No Kalikke / Kanerah?
Just as an fyi about Nok-Nok, and specifically weapon finesse. In pathfinder tabletop, weapon finesse only allows you to use your dexterity modifier instead of strength for your attack bonus, not your damage, and only with light weapons. There are a small handful of ways to put your dexterity modifier to damage in the tabletop version, but typically they're exclusive to certain races, weapons, or classes. The only caveat to that is a magical enhancement called Agile which can be added to weapons to allow dex instead of str to damage rolls.
Kingmaker uses the Unchained Rogue variant rule, where rogues get the Finesse Training feature at level 3, which allows them to choose a specific weapon then add their Dex mod to damage while using that weapon.
Slashing grace or fencing grace allows you to add DEX bonus to damage for light slashing or piercing weapons respectively.
Glad you mentioned Linzi being so good bards are amazingly versatile and the buffs help so much in a game like this. Also Jaethal as much as I like her character her being undead is just absolutely crazy without a proper healer for her because ya she can heal herself but if your healing mid combat its so ineffective its sad and made me drop her from my group completely when I can. Valerie is very underwhelming stat wise and I generally don't user her either. Nice video once again keep up the good work!
Yeah if they had potions of negative healing I'd probably use Jaethal over Amiri, oh well.
@@mikeclarke3990 They do- cause wounds same as cure but reverse effects e.g light moderate etc
It has been two years now, i hope you have realized by now what a trap healing in combat is. A turn spent healing is a turn you're letting the enemy get his in for free, it is almost always better to just kill them fast enough to not need the healing at all and Jaethal is pretty good in that if you spec her right.
Then don't be healing during combat, and if you have to heal during combat there are clerics for that.
Evil clerics channel negative energy which works well with Jel. And at level 3-4 Clerics won't harm your party with negative energy.
What ratio should each spec have in the party ? 1-2 Tanks, 1-2 dps, 1-2 mages ? Bardes ? How much support ? I'm a bit lost
That wouldn't be a bad party comp. Ideally you want two to three melee capable characters, a cleric or druid for healing, a wizard or sorcerer for crowd control and support, and a "5th character" like a Bard, Inquisitor, or Alchemist to round things out.
Thank you so much ! I struggle badly in this game, your videos are saving me !
I would run 1 main tank, 1 melee DD/off tank, 1 pure DD, 1 arcane caster, 1 healer, the 6th can be anything: bard, ranged, or some other support class.
Use the Forge combat system: the core of a party is the Anvil, Hammer, and Arm. Anvil is anyone who can hold enemies in place and control their movement. This covers tanking *and* mass cc. Valerie is good for this early on, and Amiri can do it later if you build her right. But even Linzi can handle this role with spells like Sleep.
Hammer is your primary damage dealer. They just, one by one, single out enemies and take them down. Early on, Amiri is great for this, especially if you remember she can use other weapons besides her Ginormous Sword. I like to give her a Longbow so she can take pot shots while Valerie gets into position and secures aggro, then have Amiri switch weapons and run up from the flank. Of course, a Ekun is also good for this and Nok-Nok is, hands down, the best. A well-built main character could do this too.
Lastly, the Arm is your enabler; the character who "swings the hammer" so to speak. They will buff your team and/or debuff the opponents, especially buffing the hammer. Your Clerics and Linzi fill this role best.
Beyond that core, everything else is just fine-tuning and supplemental roles. You can have a "backup" of any of those three core roles, but not if it ruins your formation. Eg. If Valerie is your Anvil, Amiri is your Hammer, Linzi is your Arm, and MC is a backup Hammer (maybe a high-damage ranged build), then Amiri or Linzi (via cc spells) can be a backup Anvil if Valerie falls and the MC can be a backup Hammer if Amiri falls. But if your MC is a backup Arm, then if Amiri falls, your formation is broken because you don't have a viable Hammer.
SO what party then do you run with?
When you can use mod to respec stats and classes, so problems solve now your companions can be good at story and combat :P win-win
This video was useful to me. I'm playing Pathfinder Kingmaker for the first time, and I've found myself in a position where I'm going to restart the game with a different party composition.
You see, I was playing as a wizard. But I picked up Octavia at level 3, and I want her to be in my party because I like the character. I don't see any way to build her into a character except as an arcane trickster. I don't think a 2-wizard party is a good idea, so I'm going to start over. Everyone's just too flimsy.
Ekundayo sounds epic, but I haven't actually seen him.
I might use an alchemist or an inquisitor on my new start. They seem interesting and are a bit more durable than wizards.
valerie gets a pass from me now. using dazzling display + intimidating prowess and shatter defenses makes her a pretty awesome debuffer. that with cleave, great cleave, cleaving finish, improved (greater) cleaving finish makes her good at clearing low ac mobs.
other then that shes not that great.
Throw Coregon Smash on her (Cornugon?) and she can keep almost every enemy in the game in a constant state of Fear as long as she lands a melee hit. Just pump CHA as much as you can and she's relevant the entire game since apparently the devs fucked up and forgot to include fear immunity on a lot of monsters that should have had it.
In commenting before seeing yours, I wanna see how you rank my main man...
Tbh, I think Regongar is one of the best companions in this type of Rpg I've used in a while...
I always play good neutral or good chaotic during my first playthrough of an rpg...sometimes I never even go evil and even less often lawful, I just rarely find any evil companions likeable because they tend to be unrealistic mustache twirling sadists who can't handle a whiff of selflessness....
With that in mind, I am so surprised by how great he is as a character.
I don't often see 'evil' companions who are able to even associate with non-psychopaths. Not only does ol' Reggie tolerate my primarily good party, he is the most charismatic one in the group in terms of writing!
I think his "evil" label is a bit harsh. He's a major dick for sure...but in an acceptable way.
Yes, hes also bordering on rapey, but he seems to be mostly kidding and targets the strong for his advances. Being straight IRL I always play straight characters...but even so I found Reggie's equal opportunity perviness to be funny.
Props to Nok Nok as well. Never thought I'd find a Goblin endearing. As unbearably oversweet or fragile as many good characters are in this game, they do evil well...maybe the best!
3:40
Oh and I will be taking things very personally. Disagreeibg with me, even slightly, is a personal attack and Ill have a red faced, eyes rolling back nerd tantrum if I hear something even slightly different than my opinion. Im a cool guy like that.
And again, thank you so much :)
I usually take Amiri along, take one more level as barb and then go two handed fighter and never look back, with decent access to lots of feats she becomes quite good at least.
Give her a few levels of rogue and she adds sneak attack on top. Really strong with a reach weapon combined with a decent tank. With that approach she also doesn't particularly need AC, though she can make great use of mithral full plate in combination with Dex buffs and combat reflexes. The downside is lack of rage rounds, but there's a feat for that.
I have to agree about Valerie. I replaced her with a mercenary Paladin and was easily able to match her AC and on TOP of that have all the Paladin abilities.
As Tristian take a few levels of sorcerer and then mystic theurge. he is then a terrific back line member. I have been rolling with a Holy power party and having a relatively easy time. Valerie, Harrim, MC (a frontline war cleric build), Ekun, Tristian (as MT) and Octavia because she is cute and awesome. Most fights I dont even need to do anything but auto attack. even relatively hard fights I can get through with Tristians aoe heals.
If you are not focusing just on battles, but on the game overall - Jaethal is IMO the most usefull companion overall. Best lure bot, best fear spammer (spell focus Necromancy FTW), best scout (highest possible perception skill), overall very high Lore and Knowledge skills for IG skillcheks. The only real advantage Linzi has over Jae - Rogue skills. If you're not a Rogue and not using Oktavia for some strange reasons - Linzi is your pick. But she's a terrible lurer. In that case you should lure enemies with your tank (Valerie or you as a Paladin).
Best tank too since she ignores 99% things game throws at tanks.
Amiri is awesome. She has summon the dead soldiers as companions and the enchanted scythe.
Amiri is the barb
I'm seeing this now, over a year later and after a lot of updates as well as a lot of mods, but I don't really disagree with your ordering even now - looking at it from the point of view of "how vital do I think it is to respec the companion in question" - Enkun and Nok-Nok I don't have any urgency whatsoever to respec. Same with Linzi. I can (and have) handled Jubilost without respecing him but he does benefit from switching him to Grenadier. Still, it's not as vital to change that as making changes to other companions is.
Octavia I would always respec eve while keeping her essential core (aiming her towards Arcane Trickster), just because, like you pointed out, Transmutation isn't the ideal specialization.
Valerie I like as a character but I will always respec her because Tower Shield Specialist is trash. In fact I would tend not to have any character use a tower shield, ever, just because carrying a boat around is so hampering (if I could get a weightless one, maybe).
Amiri is not just a companion in this game she's a Pathfinder "Iconic" (example character). As such I'm reluctant to swap her out of her ginormous sword. It's painful early on though and really respecing her to use anything else would be better (as would making her, say, a Mad Dog and getting a pet). HOWEVER, if you do keep her ginormous sword, it will pay off....eventually. Depending on your choices in the middle (the late middle) of the game. Lots and lots of people make her a polearm user though, so then she can wack things HARD and her squishiness isn't so obvious. Or you can respec her to be less squishy. Or both.
I actually have found Jaethal to be fine, if Harrim is also in the party. She can actually hit fairly hard "right out of the box" and her undeaded-ness has helped several times since she doesn't suffer from some of the effects that can really hurt a typical martial (and thus your whole party as they ditch what they're doing to run away, or go down, or be confused, or whatever). Since she's immune to most mind-affecting effects without using any items to boost her, it can be helpful in certain parts of the game. Still, I used her only sparingly.
Thank you for posting this. I just now started playing for the first time and it is a pain to go through all these guide videos and stuff from a year ago or more trying to figure out what is still relevant and what they've patched. Your post let me know all this info still stands, so I appreciate it.
@@phurba169 You're welcome! It's a fun game especially if you use some of the mods but even without. I'm still enjoying it while awaiting WotR.
TSS for Valerie is actually not trash; - however:
A) It takes quite some while to get her rolling, and Fighters are highly gear-reliant. (Belt of Physical Perfection +8 for the endgame, to get both 14+2 from her quest +2 +8 =26 Strength, and 22 Dex, to fill her AC)
B) Fighters (all archetypes) are mostly designed for multi-classing, in any case. - My suggestion would be: TSS 5 SD 4 Thug 1 Traditional Monk 1 , by 11 ( online and - kicking bad ass! ) , into TSS 9 Thug 4 by 18: Giving her Heart of Ira will mean that she can enter and leave her stance at will.
C) Apart from Crane Style, Shield Wall is the way to go. (You get 2 AC from SD, plus 2 additional if needed) About everything else is there to bolster her offensive and intimidation prowess. ( Crit Focus, Shatter Defenses, Combat Reflexes, Dreadful Carnage, Ouflank, Power Attack, etc) - Khanda (Pitax) is a fantastic Bastard Sword for her. Until then, buying her a Holy Bastard Sword +2 (for Vordakai/Armag) will have to do.
D) With a side-kick , who can take a beating as well (e.g. a Paladin, or Jaethal with a shield) , and Legendary Proportions, she stands at pretty 350 HP by level 18 (plus eventualities, like Stalwart Defense.:P) , and is (on Hard difficulty) extremely hard to hit by Wild Hunt shenanigans; the Tower Shield to Touch AC combined with the solid Dex are in fact about the best you can get when you are not rolling a Sword Saint, or a dedicated Dex tank ( be it Monk, or some type of Aldori multiclass) .
- Compared to them, however, she is still about 100 HP ahead, and has significantly higher Fortitude, to compensate.And, as she has Evasion as well:
She can completely ignore any AoE that you throw at her, due to Burst Shield, and also wade through Siroccos.
Overall: Can a player roll better? Sure. Is Val as a TSS, after the notorious early game, more than decent? Definitely.
@@Badbentham The thing is, even there, other defensive builds will be strictly superior. It's not that you're wrong it's just that slogging through the early period (which is difficult enough) to get to a point where it works and is effective but not as effective as other, non-cheaty options, would be is underwhelming.
Valerie is one of my favs and is a mainstay in my parties but never as Tower Shield. That said, as I said, you're not wrong. Everything you said is correct as far as it goes.
Great video! But my question is: what do you pick for your PC and which companions do you bring accordingly?
My party composition: Rogue main, Valerie, Amiri (later Harrim because of companion quest), Tristan, Octavia (Wizard only) and Ekundayo.
10 levels of arcane trickster is the best way to go with Octavia, rest wizard. Giving up a couple wizard feats for 24.5 average damage sneak attack on every damaging spell is worth it. I really wish they didn't put the rogue level on her. She could be pure wizard or eldritch knight build without a rogue level. With the rogue level they kinda lock her in to be an arcane trickster. Even still I rank her above the 1-6 casters. She would be number one if she was pure wiz and her con a little higher.
the funny thing is there is a decent build for val that makes her more useful than Amiri because of her stat spread but it takes multiclass selections.
I multi classed Jaethol into a druid which worked quite well.
after 3 play-throughs, I've always used her for tanking.. Valerie's only real mistake is her 19 constitution but she has way above average points at 27 anyway; her 13 dex is deceptive in that the armor training will go toe to toe with +dex items so you will never be missing out on AC; if I could reallocate her points, I'd take con down to 18 or 16 and up her wisdom, round her int, then depending on whether I want her thug level dazzling display, raise charisma to 16 or dump it for more skill points from Int or more Str to carry weight; keep in mind that placing her as a regent you use her charisma (although the regent advisor is the least used for problems); dazzling display with 1 thug level and skill focus persuasion and intimidate will always have a huge impact on living enemies, completely turning fights whenever you bother to use it
The problem with tristian is that hes bugged and have only one domain (good) instead of two as he should.
??? He has the healing domain which automatically empowers his healing spells. And (though I don't really understand why) he can prepare any of his goddess's domain spells in his domain slots, in particular fire.
Wait what? Why would CHA affect healing? Is WIS not the cleric casting stat? :)
Charisma affects channeling. Higher charisma=more points+access to selective channeling feat, which is good because then you're not healing the enemy along with your party in battle. Harrim can't channel in combat without aiding the enemy. Tristian can. It's frustrating that both NPC clerics are poorly built, so that making your own healer is an appealing choice. OTOH, PC Druid makes a lot of sense in the game as a result.
Octavia is amazing. She is second to Ekun in terms of usability. She is better than a full Wizard in every way. Wizards have to spend a resource to do anything meaningful, while Octavia can do acceptable damage with cantrips because she comes with sneak attack. In Kingmaker you are expected to fight more encounters than a tabletop so better resource-less abilities > better resource-intensive abilites. It doesn't matter that octavia is a spell or two behind a full wizard because her better turn by turn performance means she won't have to burn as many spells per combat. Her 8 con is whatever, she's not going to survive any longer with 12 or 14 con in the early game, and late game there are +6 con belts anyway. Octavia is broken by companion standards-- the only reason you don't use Octavia is if you have a Merc or a PC that does her job. Also someone has to use the Star Soldier's Gauntlets, and Octavia is by far and away the best user (unless you're PC is better for it). Transmutation is a fine school, Slow, and Disintegrate are transmuation and having extra DC on Disintegrate can mean the difference between a boss lasting 10 rounds vs 2. Clerics are completely not necessary except for 1 place -- Vordekai's Dungeon. They're spells can be replicated on the cheap by the priest that sell every spell that they can cast (that you care about). Also Harrim is by FAR the weaker cleric. He's a melee off-tank with 8 dexterity. That was literally the worst non-main stat he could've had an 8 in. Hell he could've had 8 STR and it would've been slightly better if only because alot of cleric spells come with size bonuses to str. Dexterity is the king stat for tanking, you need at least 13 base for dodge, and you need at least 16 dexterity to fully utilize mithral full plate. Which means Harrim needs +8 dex enhancement just to fully utilize his armor. Valerie was unusable until late game and you got two back-to-back stupid broken tower shields. That being said at least kinetic knight and slayer somewhat saved Valerie. Also one-handed weapons were broken late game. Tyrant, Perfection, unstoppable Khandi, and all-slayer were so good you could justfy valerie even as a tower shield specialist just so you have more people to hold these broken weapons.
Will you do Eu4 videos again?
I agree that valerie stats are bad but i disagree about the TS subclass, a correctly built TS wont dps as much as a regular fighter but will be a way better tank.
The problem with TSS is that a regular Fighter can hit similar ACs that a TSS can but without losing 90% of their offense. The only thing a TSS does better is Reflex saves, but who cares?
You kinda want to go 16/16/16 at minimum for DEX, STR and CON if you want that pointless class to work at least somewhat properly. However, you can just focus shield and defense with barbarian dwarf - and that shit gets not only the same AC as fighters, but also defensive rage stances, self-heal AND a flat damage reduction. So yeah, going fighter for tank - is ineffective imo in the first place
Since when is not able wearing armor is "a problem" in RPGs? Tristian is a buff\heal bot. If you want a fighter, there are better fighters. Harrim is a very poor melee fighter + absolutely useless Domains. Tristian on the other hand has some good fire spells (burning hands\fireball etc). The very best boost for Tristian is taking the bow feats, not the armor feats, and able to use some longbows.
+ his channeling is huge. His favourite meal gives him +1d6 to heal for a day + special items for another 1d6 heals + his CHA boost. Harrim has only 10 CHA and very poor DEX score (even unable to take Crane Style feat).
if only Harrim had Negative Channeling - damage living (very OP skill) he would be a good pick
Ekundayo is nice but I don't necessarily need him because I'm a Feyspeaker. I can be closed ranged or long-range whatever I wish, at any moment. AoE too. And actually isn't that squishy as some might think. If you are a Feyspeaker you can be a Mage, Healer,DPS and sub tank in one with only leveling feyspeaker. And you not weak at anything you do. You can also be immune to any poison and the element of your choice if you choose element domain. So you can go with any companions but bring 1 true tank like Val.
if your main character isn't the tank, I don't see any scenario where you won't be needing Valerie in the composition; Amiri is essential early on as the source of damage, unless you yourself are playing a two handed character; rogues need a few levels to get there and magic users are largely helpless at levels 1-4, a sword and board character is also underpowered at early levels
What i take away from this is that all companions can be passable if not kinda good if we use them correctly, with valerie being the most awkward.
It's basically very hard to miss Ekun cuz his dog literally meets you at the enter point of the location and leads you to him. To miss him you have to completely ignore the dog.
Btw - My Valerie has no scars. Why I constantly see Valerie with a scar over her face in peoples videos?
The Valerie scar thing is part of her companion quest line and I haven't seen a way to avoid getting it if you do her side quest stuff.
I find it pretty easy to keep up Jaenthal's health by purchasing a ridiculous amounts of Inflict Light Wounds scrolls and just carrying them around to heal her up between fights.
On hard+ she is pointless tho. You don't want to waste your turn on healer just to heal her, when you have to babysit other party members as well, so I ditch her completely and she is basically level 1 for most of the game (apart from her personal quest, since it's kinda fun)
You shouldn't be healing in combat anyways. It's a waste of actions which could be used to prevent the enemy from doing the damage in the first place, be that killing them faster or preventing them from doing as much damage. With that in mind, her health is not so low that you need to heal her in the middle of 99% of encounters. You can heal her adequately after combat. If you do absolutely NEED to heal her in combat, she can cast a higher level inflict wounds spell from a scroll on herself.
I really like Nok Nok, however i noticed that if you dont baby sit him, he will mostly get one shot. However the damage he can do when flanking is insane....
In my game, Tristian has bracers of armor +4 and with buffs, he's still very much a back line party member and I usually will take Harrim on my adventures vs him. But as you point out, he has some very useful features.
I agree on Valerie being basically useless. Her and Jaethal get to come on the occasional mission but otherwise just stay at base for me to experiment with builds - I dipped her into stalwart defender.
Respec mod is a god send. I have Jaethal as a monster taction thug, summoning feats + shatter defense cornugan with improved scythe crit. She's the cornerstone of my team and truly the only reason we can hang
Jubilost is ok but I don't like the lip that you get out of him. Plus he's C/N which puts him in the same category as the insane. Where Linzi is my little buddy.
I turned Valerie into a heavy shield bash fighter. She became a lot better with some two weapon fighting perks and bash skills. But I can see why people would not want to use her. If only her subtype could be changed.
I agree with you about Octavia, but I just level her as a straight Wizard but still add trickery and find her more useful than Linzi.
I did the opposite: I ran Octavia as a straight rogue with 5 levels of wizard just to get the +2 attribute. :P
@@Adyen11234 my PC is a rogue but if he wasn't I probably would have worked towards arcane trickster with her or used Linzi for rogue skill checks.
Couldn’t help but notice that with all your complaints about Valarie’s reflex saves being terrible it was only 2 less than her fortitude that you praised. While I admit it would be super easy to make a better mercenary she is a strong part of any pregen only party. It isn’t hard to get her ac into the 40s which is great for most encounters.
I could build a better party, but the regenerated characters is what makes it fun. Play the way you want. That is the intention.
Wait, you use Octavia with a bow? No wonder you ranked her so low.
She gets sneak attack bonus to any spell, even cantrips..and acid splash is a ranged touch attack.
Meaning Octavia just casting cantrips will outperform Ekun in ranged fighting ability by a lot(as she hits more reliable and does more damage.)
I was baffled by his rating of Octavia. Her Transmutation actually serves to make her more survivable when she gets in trouble...which you never should if you engage properly. She can out sneak-attack Nok-Nok with cantrips, let alone ray spells. And that 1 level is not nearly as important as made out to be. Because full wizards in this game are gimped because the poor scroll selection means you'll never get proper wizard versatility. Meaning if you want a true power arcanist, you have to play a sorcerer, who is...1 level further behind Octavia. Also, if you get in any sort of combat difficulty, she should have mirror-image+displacement &/or Improved Invis up. Which makes her functionally untouchable. What's more, having a character with full rogue utility w/ 1 level of rogue+ mage spells makes her a great utility character as well as the only magic user worth talking about.
lol Valerie is Darkness from Konosuba....a blonde crussader/paladin that take damage and all ways miss XD
I found her to be good her and the barbian chick where the 2 best companions i found.
She is atheist tho... really different from both of those
I just finished on challenging mode last night. I used Harrim, Valerie, Octavia, Regongor, and Jathal. Picked up selective channeling on Harrim at 17. Finished game at 17 1/2. Best Party Ever!!! NE Rogue as main character.
Hey Darkfireslide, I really like your Kingmaker content. Now you have ranked each of the companions, will you make a video how to fix Octavia, Amiri and Valerie without destroying RP aspect of the character? There's a respec mod on steam and I would like to see your thought process on how to fix them.
I agree that Linzi is great, people are just lazy to utilize her support and Valerie and Amiri are underpowered due pre-gen to stats early on and bad feat selection.
The Mod to Respec is extremely useful(since some abilities don’t work like you might think or even should work) But baseline characters;
Valerie: Have your main character be a tank lol. Or, go for a trip build, this would give all you surrounding teammates attacks of opportunity.
Octavia: one of the better built characters, go arcane trickster and you have a wizard with sneak attack with acid splash, very nasty! But you are right about the school specialization and having a lower caster level :-(
Amiri is a glass canon, use defensive stance and Heavy Armor with a level dip of fighter and go Mithral full plate when you can.
Ekun is a Beast as an archer, give him the “troll bow” and watch the enemy mobs die lol
4:05
"Why rank them?"
Cuz its fun to do and its fun to watch or read someone else's rankings. That's all ya gotta say, my man.
I always use Valerie,Harrim,Tristan,Linzi,N0k-nok,and my guy who is a fauchard specialized 2-hand sub class and all iv'e ever had is this masterwork fauchard and still hits like a mac-truck.I mean what is better than one cleric,except 2 and one that can also do some tanking.
Any caster with Resist Energy and Death Ward should be in the top 3. Ekun is only indispensable for the pressure plate maze and to scout/charge with a fast pet.
My usual companions:
Fighter: Harrim (sometimes Valerie) and Amiri
Ranger: Ekundayo
Rogue: Linzi (always set)
Caster: Octavia or Jubilost
So, my most important companions that are about always in the party: Amiri, Ekundayo and Linzi.
As for the others:
Jaethal replaces Amiri sometimes.
Nok-Nok is a great Rogue but enters the game late and I don't want to replace Linzi. So he comes for Amiri when necessary
Tristian: replaces Octavia when necessary
Regongar: I almost never use him. Would replace Amiri if necessary.
So, the standard setup is: Main character (Aldori Swordlord), Harrim, Amiri, Ekundayo, Linzi, Octavia. First 3 have melee, last 3 ranged weapons assigned.
why should you want Valerie to deal any damage - it's not a problem for her role (as tanking is determined by prebuild). But for tank you want better defences then she has - thats the problem. Also, some disables would be nice to have (as you lack damage), but she lacks int too... i saw someone posted multiclassing her into druid. Gonna check.
Not being able to deal damage is a problem for most classes. Druids have their animal companions and summons, and Clerics deal damage indirectly through buffs and keeping the party alive, or crowd control. Fighters are also capable of dealing tremendous damage. You can run a Paladin with only a slight AC deficit compared to Valerie and still have that Paladin deal hundreds of damage every combat while also having better saves. This isn't an MMO. When you only get 6 characters, it is expensive to put someone like Valerie on your team. Jaethal is a better tank since she can heal, has better Dex, saves, and can cast spells. Valerie is just a high AC number, and the fact that you can replace her with a 20 point buy mercenary and have a significantly better character is just sad.
Admittedly, it's not her fault Tower Shield Specialist is probably the worst class in the game.
@@darkfireslide when you play party - there roles come to play. Having a good tank (and a semitank) allow your damagedealers
shooting arrows naked.
Tanks only purpose is to mitigate incoming damage, in ideal - take nothing. This greatly reduce healing needed to recover and provide tons of time to regroup/buff etc.
Would it be great for tank to deal damage? Yes, if: 1) it's required for his tanking (like generating agro); 2) he takes no damage/control (no need extra defences/saves);
If no - then go more defences and ignore stupid damage. For damage - there are summons and other party members. The difference for every extra AC is ridiculously strong - while having 10/d20 is 50% hitchance (200% ehp), +9ac will make 1/d20 = 5% chance (2000% ehp). Same for accuracy - it's much more important then raw damage until you get close to the cap (18+/d20 over enemies' ac).
@@nightyonetwothree did you even read what he replied? 0.0
She's not the worst at being a tank, but it's very simple to build a better tank than her. That's the problem. And only high AC isn't everything... low willpower means she will easily get feared and she won't tank shit if she is runnin around in fear as the rest of your party gets spanked to death
Also I think how aggro works in this game, if an enemy misses too often, they will switch target, so you would need something to offtank anyway. Again the problem is not that her tanking is super bad, the problem is you can build something better very easily.
I still love Val tho :)
She's a cool and interesting character storywise, but purely looking at stats it's not that great. Trying the Dazzling Display build atm, heard that makes her pretty good since you utilitize her "initially wasted" CHA and just demoralize and fear everyone
Heck, who knows its even a design choice. For a new player, Val is THE obvious go-to tank. Harrim just feels like he sucks at tanking and Jaethal can be good I reckon (never used her), but both need some knowledge on how to build them properly to make them work. It kinda forces you to think about the game and how it works. As a newb, Val feels like a decent tank, but still doesnt feel great at taking damage and doing her job. Hence the game forces you to come up with creative stuff. Maybe I'm just making things up, but it could be a design choice in such a way.
It's kinda like with the Lonely Shambler Mound in Old Sycamore. I felt so bad for the thing when I read the little backstory on the body. But I later realised what actually happened in that situation, which completely changes if you read carefully what the notes say and check in the Bestiary what the Shambler is and how it's "created". Plus that the notes clearly hint that the guy was NOT skilled at what he was doing. Great writing imo :)
This was painful
I just made Amira a Bar/fighter/druid (1/1/climb) plus leopard + boon+wild ring. She survives combat this way and the leopard has 25 Dex...
Backlash for you opinion on Valerie: As Nerd Commando demonstrated you can give her a level of Thug+Dazling Display, a level of Vivisectionist for the Mutagen, a level of Trad. Monk for Crane style and she becomes an extremely hard tank and a good debuffer. Yes she will never do any damage, but on higher difficulties you either are tank or dd, trying to do both is pointless. Yes I am one of the crazy masochistic "Unfair Difficulty" players, and Valerie is the only story companion I (nearly) always have in my team.
At the start of the video I talk about how I didn't consider multiclass options because you can make pretty much every character better by multiclassing, but at that point, why not just roll your own character that makes sense to be all of those things instead of making honorable Valerie a Thug and a Vivi? That's why I ranked her so lowly. Anything she can do a better built 20 point buy character can do better
You don't need some crazy multiclassed Valerie for her to be a good tank and debuffer. Just take the Charisma-based fighter feats (Cornugon Smash, Dreadful Carnage, etc) and maybe take a few Stalwart Defender builds to take advantage of her really high Con (yes this is "multiclassing" but it's very lore-friendly IMO and she seems to be built to go into this class anyway).
Great video. Thank you very much. It may be my setup, but I find that your mic level is tad low. I guess others can confirm or deny this. But thank you again for a well presented and informative video :)
Nice vid, I agree with most of them except Jaethal I think she should be higher because if you class her into your main frontline tank as a Barb Invul Rager with guardian stance and get scrolls to heal her, you got a frontline tank that is immune to a shed lone of status effects and a barb who does not suffer any fatigue effects and I agree with your current barb she weak as a barbs go so shift her into a sacred hunter for an extra pet and then she ok. but there not min-maxed chrs at all and I am fine with that.
Sadly Valerie is the only front line fighter character that isn't a PC so unless you're going to get a custom character Valerie is your only real option for a front line character.
1. You ranked Ekun first. Very good pick, mainly because he offers both frontline support (and, as you mentioned the only way to get aggro is to have a solid, wide frontline, so that enemies can't actually get through you) and solid damage. His buffs become insane when he gets sense vitals, which is just plain ridiculous.
2. Harrim is far, far better than Tristran for two reasons - firstly he's not going away at anytime (at least so far, I'm in chapter V) and secondly channeling heals are good only out of combat. They heal everything, enemies included (at least that's what I noticed way back when after launch and never used channeling in combat afterwards, so maybe they changed/patched it).What you need is a solid piece of steel to get to you and cast that TOUCH ranged heal. And yeah, you're gonna get hit if you cast again or move out of range. My Harrim is currently at 38AC. And I tried armor proficiency and arcane armor or whatever that casting feat is called for wizards and nope, Tristran can't cast crap if he's wearing anything.
3. Linzi - oh, my dear Linzi. My favourite character. She doesn't excel at anything, but can just do almost everything so damn well. Can't open a chest? Sing a song. Can't hit an enemy? Sing a song. Lost some hitpoints? Cast a heal. What I did with her is I gave her martial weapon prof, gave her a solid belt to all physical stats (str included), gave her a composite longbow, all the standard archery feats and she does quite reliable damage. But the best thing in the world is Necromancy. Combat start, cast haste, cast slow, watch your lines clash. As soon as that happens, cast fear. Then watch everything explode from attacks of opportunity as they try to run away. Masterpiece :). I gave her specialization in necromancy for that trick alone. Also the level 5 mist cutting down will saves to zero? Well, seems to be bugged or at least used to be, as it shouldn't affect my own characters, but once it gets you... Man, you're gonna have a bad day with -10 will. She is actually my number two on the list.
4.Nok Nok - Now here's where we part ways, because Nok Nok. Stabby stabby? He's just perfect. His lines whenever he decides to chime in during conversations are the shit, his build is insanity squared, his stats are beyond imagination. He's actually my archmage now, the little Nok Nok. He's wearing archmages robe and he loves it. 39 AC roaming frontline like the boss he is cutting off everybodys' legs. The damage just keeps piling up faster than you can add the numbers. His sneak and trickery allow you to open everything everywhere, no questions asked. Nok Nok sees, Nok Nok keeps. He's definitely the first character I take for any team composition imaginable. Also, later in the video, you mention that you ranked other characters above Nok Nok because they have buffs and debuffs. Nok Nok can cast debuffs, they're called "you die" and are on every level. He also has crowd control spells like "you explode" and "no crowd left" xD. Also, there is a Will Save, but I heaven't seen anybody with a Nok Nok save.
There's one single reason why Tristan is much better than you think: He has selective channeling feat, which means his healing burst and undead burst only affects allies and enemies.
Amiri - You actually missed the point with her. Just skip the bloody sword, go with greataxe (which will give you an awesome bonus during the troll quest, which can be a bitch), use the offensive rage (but without the def debuff, can't remember the name) and then just stack the crap out of her with damage reduction. Cast stoneskin and displacement on her and she's basically indestructible. She can withstand so much pain it's not even funny. You can entirely skip Valerie and use Amiri and the party damage sponge. Healing her is incredibly easy due to damage reduction (which is king). If you could slap adamantine whatever on her, she could potentially be indestructible. Constitution is so overrated. The only problem you get is the number of heals you can cast per turn and constitution doesn't help with that at all. What helps is AC, which is basically useless against all hard encounters, because enemies get plain stupid plot bonuses to everything (Armag +43 attack, aye?), which means damage reduction is the way to go. Armag cut Valerie to ribbons in two rounds even though she had like 41AC, but just couldn't deal enough damage in to punch through my heal spam on Amiri just because she had like 25/- damage reduction. I had Linzi and Harrim cast heals every damn turn and he couldn't get through. Then Sunder Armor finally landed and Nok Nok did, what Nok Noks usually do - he cut his legs off.
1. Ekun also gets a pet wolf. The dialogue there made me chuckle so much, that I instantly swapped Ekun into my party after that and never regreted it :D
2. Harrim fucked up a couple of side quests for me (because of his "we're all gonna die anyway, so what's the point") and that's why I'm not using him if I'm running a good party (evil - be my guest, Harrim, you beardy manly man)
3. Yep, Linzi is too adorable not to take. And she can't die die, which is crucial when it comes to having that turned on
4. Nok Nok is brutal, yeah, though again I wouldn't take him into a good playthrough. Now when it comes evil or neutral... >:D Hello Harrim, my old friend, Nok Nok has come to you again... :)
I'm currently running Harrim, Nok Nok, Linzi, Jaethal (grabbed her along for a side quest, swapped Ekun) and Valerie with my lawful good paladin. Still works like a charm. Funny how bless, good hope, haste and some 'eavy metal from Linzi turns that team into an instant murder squadron. I'm considering leaving Jaethal in just for shits and giggles to spam summon undead from both her and Harrim and swarm everything with hordes of undead while Nok Nok cuts everybodys' legs off running between them ;). But truth be told she ain't even close to what Ekun can do. I remember the bitchy fight with one of the sisters, when she just sucked my whole team dry on all stats and he two-shot her with that lucky bow (x4 crit). 19-20x4 with no crit confirmation roll is kind of broken.
One reason I thought Tristian was okay (I have not decided between him and Harrim for certain), was because he is squishy, will be WAY in the back. So far back, that you can position his Channel Energy to ONLY heal your party, and *maybe* 1-2 enemies. I find this WAY easier than spacing a Fireball, or Sleep, etc. - because I can make MY characters stand still! Enemies are always all over the place, and I find AOE effects very difficult to pull off.
FWIW, I hate hate hate the way this game has no 5 foot step, and movement is fluid, not turn-based.
I have to give a shout out to the call of the wild mod on vortex. They added a bunch of classes and fixed a lot of the specific complaints in this video especially when it comes to Amiri and Valerie. also darkfireslide is correct, Tower shield specialist is one of those sub classes that is just a pure downgrade from the regular class. Fighter easily has the feats to spare to get tower shield feat and losing +4 to hit and damage for some reflex savings throws makes no sense at all.