3 Secret Rare Lines to Beat the London System
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- Опубліковано 9 вер 2020
- Getting tired of facing the London System every single game? Surprise your opponent with one of these three secret lines that will surely take them out of book immediately and force them to play the kind of game that you want.
1:33 System #1: Safe and Sound
4:59 System #2: Rare but Good
12:56 System #3: Unnecessarily Aggressive
*****
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I AM SO GLAD I WATCHED THIS VIDEO!
I played in a tournament recently and got through to the finals. I knew my opponent was going to play the London system, so I decided to play the second line you showed... He resigned on move 26. I am forever in your debt for this victory. My sincerest thanks to you.
Congratulations!
"I know we're all busy so I'll just leave the timestamps in the description". Very few youtubers have thought of this, salute to you for being one of them
The other youtubers know, they just want you to watch the whole video every time, even if you were just looking for one part of it.
There seems to be 4 or 5 adds in this 16 minute video though, so much for saving time
Tho he forgot to put the 0:00 stamp which subdivides the bar
Very thoughtful. I wish more would do this
I'm watching a UA-cam video. I'm the opposite of busy.
Luka Luce very true, sometimes the best you can do is take your comment the time stamps
Eric Rosen: Let's play Stafford.
Daniel Naroditsky: How to bust the Stafford!
Eric Rosen: It's London time!
Jonathan Schrantz: How to beat the London System in 3 different ways!
Eric Rosen: Oh no my openings :( !
man that's so true((
Eric Rosen: Ahh
If he replied with "oh no my openings," I would hope that he has been developing a new gambit or something. Really, we're just missing a tactic.
@@VivekGawande1 *gah
Eric admits the Stafford is dubious vs good players
That c6 move changes everything! Thanks for sharing.
3rd system is called Elshad opening. It actually has a lot of theory and several books developed by russian fide master Nemtsev.
Dude you’re a hero for posting this. My brother *always* plays the London against me and whilst he’s a stronger player so tends to win as black or white, it’s a frustratingly difficult opening to play against nonetheless.
Thank you again. Really!
Happy to help! Thanks for watching.
Esoteric The London is very passive and if you have time to study the structrures you will learn alot. If you play classically against it (pawn on d5, c5, both knights out...) then you have a firm grasp of the game. Because the London is a system, it is extremely easy to prepare something against it. You could home-prep a certain attack which there are many of. I personally didn’t really like the last one because I wouldnt really play this in a FIDE rated game as it is too risky, but very fun to play against weaker players in blitz time format.
Xponent you give me way too much credit. I’m like a 1500 lichess on my best day. I spend more time doing chess puzzles than actually playing chess.
But from what you’ve said I disagree with some points. You say the London is passive but it really isn’t, if you check out the Eric Rosen DVD there are some horrible attacking lines and many ways to change into different styles, it’s not like you’ve made your bed after doing a few moves. There’s a reason Eric loves it so much.
Likewise whilst you can “prepare” against the London, it’s extremely sound as an opening and very difficult to break down. I know I’m poor at the game but a lot of what I’ve said comes from people who know a lot more about it.
Again I’m grateful to Jonathan for making this video, it’s one I’ve wanted him to do for months to hopefully give the little brother a bloody nose (figuratively). I’ve got an OTB with the lad later today so I’ll study this video a few more times - wish me luck :)
Esoteric Star Wars Rubbish Ahahah it’s fine :D. Many people are just here to play for fun now and then. But the thing is, there is a reason why stronger players (I’d say GM level and up) never play this, it’s ultra passive. Bu don’t get me wrong. The London is a BRILLIANT weapon for non-serious chess players and it is totally fine. However, you will eventually hit a plateau, when you meet people who actually know how to play against a set, rigid, structure. Also, most people who watch Rosens and Schrantz videos are beginners from the Pogchamps interest spike or are slightly less experienced.
The reason I don’t recommend these openings is that the time that adds up playing these openings will show you that you won’t progress that far.
Also by the way, Rosen didn’t *start* with the London, he started playing the standard e4 e5 or Sicilian openings, and THEN began experimenting with other openings when he became stronger, just like Schrantz. If you want to become a stronger player and learn about the structures and positional strategies in chess then opening systems should be avoided entirely tbh.
Good luck on the OTB match!!
@@microitos9754 gata kamsky and magnus carlsen would like a word
Men like Jonathan is required in the education field. He is the best professor one can hope for. Thank you man...your videos are treat to watch. ❤️
There's a nice little trick I found in a lichess study one time. It's 1. d4 Nf6 2. Bf4 c6 3. e3 *g5!?* the point being that white cannot play 4. Bxg5 because of ...Qa5+! winning a piece. About 50% of the time people fall right into it but even if they don't, it's a nice aggressive line to play anyway with black usually castling queenside and play being highly "irrational".
brilliant
Funny enough just stumbled into that myself before reading your post using Stockfish on the phone.
That sounds fun, im playing this against the london from now on xD
It's called the Lit Defence
The problem is g5 will trigger any decent players sense of danger. The best traps come from natural looking moves.
If I ever face d4 now, I just respond with c6.
e4 transposes to a Caro Kann, c4 transposes to a Slav Defence, and against Bf4 (the London) I play Nf6 which is a transposition to the 2nd line you showed in this video.
I know all of these openings, so this is a win win for me.
As a London player, I need to know what my mortal enemies know.
Thanks for the secret intel :)
i was hoping i wasnt the only london player doing this
These move orders that he is suggesting are good when the white player doesn't know much theory. So it's still playable.
@@aryashetty3924 typically London players are the lazy type
@@aryashetty3924 If someone knows theory, they won't even play the London in the first place.
@@aryashetty3924 we have the same name :). Are you iranian?
Aggressive london player here (2100-ish rapid lichess).
On system #1, I'd try to castle queenside most of the times. I actually castle kingside in the London only in rare occasions.
On system #2, I'd push c3 instead of e3 in move 1, and then qb3. Queen trade favors white slightly.
On system #3, I could just push e4 and play a caro-kan. I'm not that good in it (probably I would do the ultra dubious bayonet attack), but just get prepared for a caro-kan if you do it. And remember that white only played d4 when you commit to c6. There's no guarantee that they are actually a London player, they could just do other moves like c4.
None of these is a win for white of course, but do consider those moves and options if you want to play against the London this way
For your response on system 2 there is a crazy game played by gms where black locks up all the pawns on queenside after playing c4 forcing white to blink and capture on b6. Then he eventually gets b4 in even though there are pawns on a3 and c3 because the a1 square was pinned by uncastled king and other rook recaptured bishop trade earlier on c2. That was one cool idea a3 pawn does nothing to prevent b4 until white castles sometimes. Even cooler though is then he used b4 move to get b3 in and looked completely locked. Sacrificed bishop on a3 and recaptured c3 after bxa. Down a full piece but the a pawn hangs and 3 connected passers easily roll. So never allow closed pawn chain to reach b3 or you will need to watch sacrifice tactics closely rest of game. I’m same rating as you btw
I've always thought the London System to be somewhat flawed because it develops the bishop so early when it is not always clear that this is the bishop's best square. That's why there is the axiom "knights before bishops." Some of the best systems for Black against the London involve badgering (and, often winning) White's bishop.
Black repertoire time, I see! Excited to try all of them soon :)
Jonathan, you are my hero! This opening is a real pain in the arse, thanks a lot for your content!
Thanks for this video, I played the c6 Qb6 Nh5 line against an opponent in a blitz game and they were clearly caught off guard and burned time. I forgot the lines and ideas after that but it was an interesting game in which I got a winning endgame and converted. I'll definitely be looking into this line a lot more.
Truly a rare stuff and an awesome one, too! Thank you so much GM Schrantz for sharing it! 😊
8:34 free rook?
Good spot! I missed that one during the game.
Yeah free rook there
you had me so confused at white's move Rd1 at 8:35. I figured there was some obvious reason why you couldn't take, so obvious that merely mentioning why you didn't take the rook wasn't worth the breaths it would waste. just a clean rook blunder lol! thanks for the video
Great video, love all three ideas. It's nice to have the feeling that you're playing "your opening", I feel especially the second line does just that. :)
I love that 3rd line because as a player hovering in the mid 900s who faces the london all the time, I feel that so many of the opponents that use it have no actual idea what to do when confronted with decisions early on. The quicker I can get it to "pure chess" as Magnus says the better, and this line accomplishes that without giving away a huge advantage or anything. Thanks for the vid!
i actually play d6 ,g6 ,Bg7,Nf6,0-0, and a very cheeky Nfd7 as black to prepare e5 gaining a tempo on white's bishop. sometimes they even blunder in bullet by taking twice on e5 forgetting that the backwards knight move supports the e5 push.
A new David Bronstein! Thank you for the openings! The 2nd & 3rd are ecstatic. Way to go!
Unique content!! This man always brings new
I know this is an old video but thanks for this--most London players don't know what to do when their autopilot moves don't work, loving the rare but good line.
Great video! Very clear and succinct. Thanks!
Now I want to play all 3. I love your videos Jonathan.
That's great..it will help a lot to many chess players out there struggling against London..thanks for sharing! You're a savior!
the Elshad system against everything -London to :) ...truly lovely stuff
I really like that 2...c6 line. I'll bet London players would HATE facing that.
Thank you so much for showing me that super aggressive approach. My buddy for over the board games only plays the london as white and it consistently leads to fun tactical positions
Thank you Johnathan for such good videos. I personally liked the 'Rare and Good'
It seems like there should be some crossover between the Dutch stonewall /Black Lion/Anti-London System (the 3rd option in this video)/Philador defense because of similar pawn structures. is there any way of transposing between them or looking at them as a meta-system? I would be interested in seeing a video exploring this concept. Great content by the way.. I love your stuff. You come across as very calm and kind of humble.
Hi Jonathan-love your videos! I have been playing the c6 Qd6 variation and have had more success than playing the Grunfeld against the London. I wanted to ask if you have any thoughts on how black should develop the light-squared Bishop. Also, I have been using your ideas in the French Advance Variation with 5...Bd7 and 6...Rc8-thanks for that too! Keep your original ideas coming!
vs c6 there is c3 so that you can move your queen and propose a queen trade. the players who takes first doubles pawns but give a semi open file to the rook. generally it ends up queen staying here until 1 player is ready to defend or sac the pawn. or you can just play b4 which is comminting on the queen side but pretty solid but weakens the c4 square for a knight
Nice video. I really like the uniqueness of the second system. It looks sound but I wouldn't know what to do with the light-squared bishop, specifically after they play h3
Love your channel mate.
The second game is usually faced with c3 and Qb6 faced with Qb3
Very usefull video Jonathan. Keep up good quality. Thank You. Please more video aboaut Urusov an Nakhmanson. Great opnenings.
That was totally cool, especially the last game. Great stuff.You rock, Jonathan. We should call that last one "The Schrantz Maneuver."
It's the Elshad System invented by FM Igor Nemstev, and that plan is very common... similar to the black lion defense's kingside pawn storm.
I'm currently a beginner rated 1000-ish, and I'm guilty of using the London A LOT and I really have a hard time when the other players play something similar to the second line explained here. Thank you for this video
while playing against london white usually wait for black to casle
Brilliant love your content.
I just wonder, what do you recommend as move order in move 2, 3 or even 4 if white mixes up the move order and play like 1.d4 Nf6. 2.Nf3.. we wont know even in move 2 if they are going for the london. I guess we might end up in a slav or semi slav if they after 2... c6 then play 3.c4 or they could play e3, g3 or i dont know what. I guess we need to know something basic about slav. Also i guess we dont play Qb3 as long as the bishop remain on c1?
And i guess we dont play c6, then d6 to all kind setup? Isent that a bit passiv if lets say they revert to more queens gambit setup?
And you had phone call interruption so pretty good,thanks!
Hay Jonathan ! :) I Thank YA Big Time for this, I'd often beat my little brother Dan until he started playing the Big L. when white. Love the different approaches on such fun defense. This is the Anti London I've been waiting far to long for someone to come out with. So hay, Thank YA man for restoring Family Fun! Pleasantly presented and well shown. Blessings as Always your way from Oregon! ... Mike.
In the safe and sound approach, what do you think of playing Bf5 on move 3 after white plays Bf4? (Stockfish's suggestion) then continuing with your suggested setup?
a simple overlooked counter to the london:
1.Nc6 2.Nf6 3.e5
*black’s move 4 depends on if white takes on e5 with pawn or bishop
On system #2 after I play Nh5, my opponent played Ne2 to back up the bishop. Is this still ok? Can I please have advice?
Wonderful ideas!
Admire your passion mate!!
I for sure thought you were going to go over the 2. h5 pawn push, trying to trap white’s dark square bishop. I believe Eric Rosen made a video on this dubious but fun line.
Johnathan says that there is absolutely no theory about c6 d6 h6 g5, but actually there is the whole book about this opening in russian called "elshad's opening". It is kinda popular joke-opening on russian chess-youtube
Сергей Костров Schrantz stole it and didn’t mention it since he thought no one would spot that because most of his viewers are beginners.
Welcome back gentle man missed your chess and classes 👍👍👍
In the system#3, Would you mind if after 11. exd4, white plays 12. Bxf7 .
Thought so. 12 Bxf7+ is much better than 12 Ne2.
Another idea worth looking at after Nf6 c6 is g5 :-D with the idea of rattling the bishop around with your kingside pawns
And of course if Bxg5 Qa5+ wins the bishop
Hello Jo.. Wt if white plays, At around here (11:14- 11:16.. )instead of the knight retreating to D2, it goes to e5, wd the idea to sacrificing the knight hitting the king pawn!!.. if knight retreats from queen attack.. The advantage will simply shift back to white here, right!! How to procced here.. pls suggest jo. Thanks for this counter London. I loved it!
Interesting thank you 🙏
Great Clip
I'm wondering why Nh5 Bxb8 wasn't covered in the second segment. Is it suboptimal because of the c6 pawn placement? It seems like an easy out of these lines considering the venom in some of the other positions.
I thought you were gonna teach us the Lit Defence with 1.d4 Nf6 2. Bf4 c6 3. e3 g5! (Bxg5? Qa5+!) followed by a big kingside push.
As a London System player, now it's time to analyse and refute these responses. 😁
Doesn't seem too hard, tbh. Early h3 might get you some good results.
The last one is clearly the best, but it is spicy. On c6 in the second variation, white responds c3, not e3, and black has a very passive position, while white completes his plans. And in the first variation white obviously gets in Ne5, before black can get equality.
I play a system very similar to #2 that I came up with that usually takes my opponent out of the comfort of the london system, gives me a very predictable middle game for me, and gives me a chance to use both middle game tactics and time control against them
GREAT thanks
Thanks very much! I've taken to playing 1...c5 against opponents who routinely play the London Opening.
1 d4 c5?
@@zwebzz9685 yes
Ty very much 😊
The second line is not theory, but according to the engine it's absolutely fine for Black. And taking a London player out of his comfort zone is a great advantage
I smile when people play the London against me, for some reason they all (I'm about 1700 so let's say 1900 and below) stumble against 1. d4 Nf6 2. Bf4 c5 3. e3 Qb6 Threatening the b2 pawn. (White can force a draw from here if they want but it rarely happens) London players are used to setting up their position 1 or 2 different ways and are not used to being on defense immediately.
I'll meet your Qb6 with 4. Nc3. Take the b2 pawn, go ahead. Please open up White's b file for my hungry rook, as I attempt to trap your flirtatious Queen while swarming to c7 furking(sp) your King and sleepy Rook. Too much play left to consider a draw by any means.
@@SpaceCadet4Jesus Nd5 covers c7 and attacks your bishop and a6 kicks your knight,
@@KevinWood44 Various moves for White after Nd5, push knight into decision with c4, or, attack Queen with Rb1, or, c3 or a3 which I like better. Could even let NxBf4, then move into a fork at c7. Lots of choices.
@@KevinWood44 if white wants to hold onto his bishop, Bg2 is playable, but passive.
@@SpaceCadet4Jesus c4 then Qb5+, a3 then a6, c3 Na6/Nc6 its all fine with me
In the second case, Caro Kann is as effective I guess. c6 d5 setup will allow Qb3 always! thoughts?
thx a lot!!
Good one!
Very helpful
thank you 👍
Great video
thank you very much
Jo, I really love the last line u showed. It a new idea for me. Specially the knight manuereee!! But here again i hav a doubt as how to proceed if at 15:32 white proceeds wd Qa4 wd the idea bishop pinning next move wd Ba5!
Check out Elshad system .Its a well knows russian opening idea . I can send you the first book in pdf.(there are two -one for black and one for white side) if you want.
@@NuclearErrorBG thanks bro.. Sorry 4 the late reply. I noticed it just now! Yes. Pls do. Very much appreciated..
System 2 has been a big Problem for me when I played the London. It is not covered in any of the Williams / Rosen instructionals so this is a good way to take all London players out of theory in move 2
Even first one is difficult .
I gotta some of my favourite ideas for Caro Mann ideas from London
I really like the 2nd system. Where you played the waiting move d6 try d5 instead. Then you potentially can follow the same trap nakamura beat bareev with in 10 moves. Same idea as game except instead of g5 play nd7 baiting ne5. Some players will blunder like this because they don’t realize they can’t recapture with e pawn because of fork. Then after they play qxh5 you play ng4 and their queen gets trapped
Another good variation is the Mason opening
Hi Jonathan. And if White inserts Nf3, so you still play c6 ? 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3...I know not a London system if no Bf4. I play Grunfeld so I am cursed for a g6 move not working good with your system.
I'm a weak player but love the London. At 3:25 I take with f2 instead of h2 to keep some protection on the edge of the board and liberate the rook. What am I missing?
Sorry for responding terribly late but this is a good question. Generally, the rule is for pawns to capture towards the center but I don't think it really matters here. Whether you want h capture or f capture is merely a positional understanding for your own games. If you think a semi open f file will benefit you, go for it. If there is a dark squared enermy bishop and it looks like black might break the center, you probably want to avoid the f capture. It's just postional chess, which varies based on games and play style.
Could you do a video on rare lines against the KIA? Thanks
It’s time to counter the counter prep 👀
You are a very skilled attacking player.
Johnathan, i found a gambit which i think you'd hate. Its a very positional gambit, known as the tayler opening Basman gambit. E4/ e5 nf3 nc6 be2 nc6 d4 exd4 e5
At 3:03 is it also valid to play Qb6?
Beginner question... At 10:25 how does white’s b3 stop black’s Nh5?
It was like the phone call transported you into a wormhole! :-)
NICE!!
wat if after Bd6 white moves the bishop to g5 by white not Bg3
That 3rd game is a lot like the Elshad System for black!
My thanks to you....
Really....u r the youtube sensation....
Remember unbeatable urosov gambit!
2020: The scholarly Schrantz ....
2023: "Radagast The Great", aka VPC, 🐔
gambit vagabond, a most unscholarly vamp!
Is there a move in the London for White that he castles long (0-0-0); white intends a king side attack on Black?
What to play against London:
*Repeat!*
On your rare but good system, instead of h6 on move 12, wouldn't you win a free knight by playing e5xd4 ? Forces to move the knight, then you throw a check with your queen, so you can keep your bishop?
in the safe and sounds system
Why couldn't you just castle at the queen side? I do that often.
At 8:35 why didn't you take the rook with the queen?