I feel like there is no genuine way to have a real and intimate relationship with God without honesty. The Christian spaces I grew up in did not allow for that honesty and all the shame and religious trauma made me look at God like a villain. Finding God/ the Devine in my passion and in everyday life without reading the bible has taken me aback because I didnt expect it. A lot of Christians believe there is only a few ways to know God, when a real relationship with God is all encompassing in all our beauty and imperfection. Deconstruction led me to the truth and the truth sets free.
Wow, what an interesting perspective. I was on the other side without my faith and Jesus, and Im so grateful he has shown mercy on me cause that other side was lonely! And it's not out of guilt or fear that I praise him, but he has TRULY saved my life. Filled the void I've been looking for my entire life. I cannot imagine losing this peace I have now and spirit leaving me! I hope yall will find whatever you're looking for ❤
Thank you for your vulnerability. I’m a therapist, I work with a lot of Christian youth and young adults that are deconstructing, deconverting and a few other dees. One thing I feel we need to talk about, which you alluded to is the GRIEF that comes with that journey. Imagine getting to a point where everything you believed is spinning on its head. The loss of community, the confusion in identity and basically being marooned on an island where the ocean before you has possibilities that you have no idea how to navigate. I wish we could have more empathy for people on the shores(pun intended). As someone who grew up with non western philosophy it is interesting to see how spirituality is evolving with intersectionality and decolonization. What boggles me is how tightly religious people hold on to religion and it’s systems. Embrace the chaos, play trust your inner knowing and let it play out. That is the purpose of this life journey after all. Is it hard? Yes! Is it worth it? Absolutely. Aluta continua
My dad & sister died 3 weeks apart from each other & months before that all happened, I was reading in the book of Daniel how God had given Nebuchadnezzar these dreams..and Daniel was helping him interpret ..etc etc. I thought it was interesting because I had, at that time, never heard of this happening to people. It was just a mental note. Months later..I have a dream that I’m in this funeral with a blue casket in front of me and I was weeping in the dream with friends consoling me. Two weeks later, my Father (who I was extremely close to) passed away. A week later, I have another dream of being at another funeral, then the weeks to follow, my sister who was 27 at the time, died. Both were sudden deaths & while this sounds tragic…I could not get over the fact that God had loved me enough to prepare me all year for what was about to happen in the lives of my Mom and I. It would have ruined me that hitting me left field. That’s something that could never be snatched and His love , almost 18 years later, still impacts me to this day. This is such a condensed story..but my hope for people is not to try to convince anyone…but My hope is that people experience God in a way that nothing can be snatched from them. Not the pain that’s attached to what went I through , but just the reality of The Love of God. I’ll always watch your videos Joe. They are always interesting and intentional thoughts.
every one has their own experience. i don’t try to believe them or explain them away. as i’ve had to learn, no matter how eventful or real it is for them, other people’s testimonial spiritual experiences ultimately have nothing to do with me. other than they are interesting narratives that give me insight into how they receive the world. and that in itself is still worth something.
I wish you had known the meaning of dreams. Such dreams aren't just to prepare and accept. Those dreams require prayer, fasting, and rebuking. God loves us enough to warn us.
And then there's people like me, severely traumatized through my own parents' neglect and abuse. At one point I also believed God could and would give dreams and the ability to interpret, but my dreams almost always were more confusing, or even discouraging, than helpful or encouraging. I have nightmares most of the time because through my parents' violence I've become disabled. And no matter how other people experience dreams or family or community or even living in their own body, it will never again make sense to me how I experience/d mine.
Ahh Joe, you took the words right out my mouth. I wanted to believe, I really wish it worked. My brain just won’t stop questioning the things that are being taught. Now it feels like I’m being treated as a bad person because my beliefs have changed. Christian family & friends “praying” for me to come back to the religion as if I changed morally. I do thank religion for building my foundation as a person. It helped me grow in many positive ways. Believing in something has gotten me out of many depressive episodes.. but the more I learn about the brain & science I have taken control of my life in ways that the church could have never. It’s definitely been a journey, we will never have all the answers.. I just want to continue to grow as a person.
Such a powerful video. You perfectly articulated everything I feel when it comes to faith and religion. I spent so many nights asking myself why my mind can't get past soooo many discrepancies and contradictions of faith. I come to the conclusion that people just fear whats on the otherside but I just believe that whetherr I believe in the traditional "Word of God' or not, if I live a good life and not purposely harming others then I have no reason to fear what may or may not be on the other side. I'm living and loving the now with a kind heart daily.
Joe, I don’t normally write these but I can’t express how much I look up to you and how much your journey has helped me! I watched you when you were a Christian as was I resonated with your deconstruction journey which was he darkest time in my life, but your vids have helped me believe in myself and to push forward despite the loss in religion! Thank you so much
I just finished watching your video, and it was recommended to me by a fellow Christian. The thing that hit me most was the emphasis on Truth, not being afraid to ask the difficult questions...if Christ is Truth, then this is what he wants us to pursue with intellectual rigor and honesty. It led me to a deeper faith, but i can understand why you chose the path you have. I appreciated many of the distinctions that you made, and believe that Christians have alot to learn from this when engaging the modern world. True Christianity enters into the sufferings of their brothers, and does not dismiss their concerns, difficulties, or deeply held convictions. Thank you.
I feel like my faith journey has lined up with yours in a lot of ways, in my highschool years I would watch “Chase God TV” and I would watch your spoken word poetry and that really helped me in those years, but in 2020 everything about my faith started to fall apart, deconstruction blindsided me, and I had to get really emotionally and intellectually honest, and that’s when I listened to your first podcast episode on deconstruction and I realized this experience is not unique to me. All that to say thank you for sharing your journey, I am excited to keep following you and seeing where you go as I navigate my own faith journey and try and find passion and purpose.
Man, this content you have been putting out on this channel has been helping me so much. It feels amazing to know that I'm not alone or crazy for having similar thoughts post-Christianity. Thank you!
"I hate that we ain't make it to forever; Probably ain't getting back together; But that don't mean that I can't wish you better; We ain't good good, but we still good"❣
I pray for you and hope that -- in all your learning, you come to the knowledge of the Truth. In my studies (sciences, healthcare, Bible), I’m consistently in awe of how creation testifies to the Creator. Interestingly, I learned more about my posture and love for God from your deconstruction thought processing. So thank you for thinking out loud. Christianity is absolutely useful, truthful, and honestly even simple. It's just Love. That said, God is Love, and when you scratch the surface of every human journey, what is often found is this pursuit of Love -- if only we knew how to simply accept It. I wonder what the world would be like.
christianity is simple if you’d like it to be. but it’s also clearly not that simple if 66 books had to be written to get the point across. these days i have some sense adopted a simplistic type of christianity. one that not require the bible to be literally true or for jesus to die and rise from the grave. i’m not trying to evangelize anyone here and im not interesting in being evangelized to. just here to discuss ideas and experiences. if you’d like to pray that i “come to the knowledge of the truth” i don’t think i have to be made aware of you wanting to do that. i’m sure god would hear you just the same.
@@flightsfeelings I wasn’t trying to disrespect you by sharing my hope for you, just affirm your pursuit of “wishing you could believe in Jesus” as your title cover and message in this video implied. & okay Joe ♥️
i’ve gotta become a better communicator on screen. it’s been a minute since i’ve consistently (weekly) wrestled through these things verbally. so my angle is probably not as clear as it should have been. so i take that fault. the point through the video is not that i could come to understand that christianity is true. i’m too far past that. but rather a sort of naive wishing for the veil to be put over my eyes, at least at one point in my journey. i genuinely don’t have any desire to return to christian faith.
The depth of your takes and being able to see the nuances and ambiguity of life is why I follow and listen to you Joe. We are all on such similar journeys and I think to myself after decades of being a pillar in the Christian faith and an anchor for many or a leader for others, that deconstructing into deconverting is NOT for the faint of heart. So many people tell me presumptuously how they believe I’m in a phase or I’m too smart for my own good…and that’s disheartening. There is something I call “the sin of certainty” that many believers possess where they are so certain that they could never be wrong which in fact shows how little they may actually know. It’s quite scary to tell a Muslim that they were never really Muslim just as much as it would be to tell me after 23 years in the faith and leading in ministry, discipline, building legs and ministries with pastors and faith leaders that I never believed. Unbelief doesn’t just happen, it’s grueling and it is an awakening and embracing of incompatible truths that don’t let us brush past them and be disingenuous to knowledge, logic or facts. I wish, much like you stated I could return back to a place of blissful ignorance with my head in the perpetual sands of the peaceful shores of outdated dogma but it’s not useful or truthful in so many ways. I have found this pity of mine for my brothers and sisters who are still in the faith creep up when I speak to them and ask questions and they KNOW things don’t add up and I ask them what they are going to do in light of that information. The answer is always similar…either they say nothing, disregard it, turn it back on me, or use a joke to deflect. I pity that experience and that position because for the first time it shows me which of us is truly bound to things that are absolutely illogical, perhaps untrue and not beneficial for humanity as whole. Great video brother, I look forward to connecting in the future. Like spirits 💪🏾
I get what you mean. A lot of people have already invested most of their years, degrees, social circles and status in the religion and it would wreck them to start again on everything. So it is easier to stay and “grapple” through the unbelief.
I couldn't move past heaven and hell ultimately being a lose lose for everyone, including the Christian. There was so much about Christianity that I loved but I just could not bring myself to move past the goal we were pressing toward simply not making sense. Another great video, Joe. You're sharing your thoughts but also holding up a mirror in many ways.
Im always interested in what you have to say Joe. I too have struggled with reconciling Christianity and the set of inconvenient truths I’ve discovered. It’s painful to see the beauty, meaning, and cognitive stability that faith offers yet find it slipping away. The loss of faith is for me an inconsolable tragedy. I personally cannot find life satisfying without ultimate meaning. And I don’t think society can either. In the end, I’m willing to take the gamble of belief in Christianity because there are no other acceptable options. I take some comfort in the fact that there are some good intellectual reasons to believe in the claims of Christianity and I can only hope that there are good reasons why God chooses to remain so hidden.
Christianity is not a “gamble” and if you’re describing your faith this way, I would argue what you have isn’t faith or belief at all. As well saying that God chooses to remain “hidden” is more evidence to your blindness. Brother, I urge you there is a deeper bond than what you’re experiencing.
I too, learned of “inconvenient truths” as you put it, but I chose Jesus too. Well, He chose me! The power I’ve witnessed has become what is irreconcilable with a life void of Him. I also love that there are great arguments for His existence outside of my experience. And I remind myself that everything I discover was already discovered by someone smarter than me. They worked through it and there are answers. And if there is ever a case where Christians don’t know the answer to something, it does not mean there isn’t one. And while I now love working through such obstacles “inconvenient truths”, so that I can help others who want to believe and it actually strengthens my faith, at the end of the day faith is a choice as you put it. Beautifully put brother 🙏🏿❤️. When I first learned about some of the inconvenient truths, before even knowing that there were great defenses or Christian perspectives on these “issues” I went back to why I first believed. It was never about evidence, but faith. The first time I put my faith in Jesus, I didn’t have any evidence. I soon learned that there are people who worked through these tough cognitive theological questions. Now I learn for fun but it is not what anchors me. God bless.
I strongly relate to being able to understand, witness, and agree to the usefulness of religion. I think I am at that stage where I don't want the fact that I lack a community to be the only reason why I stay. I do still feel the need to apologise for not having faith because in my head that conversation is happening between my parents and I. They feel that they have failed as parents in raising me correctly and I feel that I cannot continue to call self-repression (that is repressing WHO l AM) love and respect. Apart from that, deconstruction is a interesting journey, it is lovely to hear you share your experience/s out of faith, thank you!
I’ll also add that if your objection is tied to religion, I have the same objection. However, I don’t have dissonance, because I don’t assent to a religion. I live my “Christian life” through a relationship with God . The Christian reality is the only world view that really makes since. Denying Jesus is not going to lead to truth, it will lead to confusion. One will discover ambiguity, and certainly not move toward truth… which is the most we can hope to do in this life. Move closer to truth.
Hmm, I think even if Jesus is the only way to God - Truth isn't exclusive to different kinds of people - I feel that since Christ talked so much about Love, and how Love is so much greater than even other gifts or virtues, and yet many Christians don't show that same/similar kind of Love in the way they think/should (and it shows in the way they write/speak; if you were to for instance compare it to what Love is in the Bible --- that it cares more about the other person and doesn't seek its own benefit/good, and that that kind of Love, instead of just Loving when something benefits you, is so beautiful and much more valuable/better --- and yet many are really just doing so in a selfish way, tbh at that point idk if that counts as Love but yeah, even if they do so "unaware-ingly" they're still thinking in a way that is more concerned with themselves/their benefit or potential benefit, and are really caring about themselves, in a way, when they show their "Love". I think that that shows that Others can still come to know Truth; even if they've never heard of Jesus, or even if they have heard of Jesus & believe in something else. My point if I worded it confusingly, is that compared to Buddhists or Agnostics or other kinds of people, they(those people/some people) might know and understand Love more, and live that out even better, than "Christians" or myself, and it just shows that just because you believe in Jesus - it doesn't make you anymore better/less - in the sense of knowing Truth or what not, and also living it out, e.g. if Love is Truth. Maybe it has to do with the fact that Truth isn't exclusive - only to believers of Christ/God/Whatever. I'm Christian too, but I really think there's probably people of different faiths that are led to more Truth/Love/have a deeper or a more insightful angle of looking at it than me! (Or in a sense have a better/greater depth of understanding of it, & they're able to live it out and Love more/better, maybe in virtue of the fact that they have that understanding/knowledge about Love). And I'm glad the Christian philosophers I subscribe to actually write about the same things/think the same - because that just makes sense logically when I was thinking about it and I find it quite true!! (not that hard to imagine imo). But yeah :)
I think my point is the fact that you say if you deny Jesus, you will only be led to confusion. But yet many who "accept" Jesus are confused - if Love is Truth and yet they don't show Love, or understand that, when other faiths, monks of differing religions, just "get" it more; and hence are less confused - speaking on your terms/in reference to your wording. Sorry for the jumble of text btw, this is probably better. 🙏
@@sking388 I like how you put "accept" Jesus because just because you claim to accept something sometimes doesn't mean you really have. I think the point OG commenter is trying to make is if Jesus is truly the only way like the bible claims, then legit everything else does lead to confusion. Your talking about others from other faiths that show good fruit, I remember when I was an atheist I showed great fruit to be honest, but deep down I was legit a monster and very confused. Looking back I think God was guiding me during that time, but I didn't believe in that so I wasn't really searching, I was more so demanding empirical evidence and then one day I decided to embrace that monster because I just had enough with losing in life & I wanted to win. Then God spoke to me 4 years ago which saved my life, he said "If you do this I'm gone" I do agree people of all walks can know truth (that's biblical, It's written on our hearts) but according to the bible their are beings against us and it honestly seems like these beings are running things in the world. So If there is legit truth found in Jesus Christ I think it would be wise to ground yourself there. Nothing wrong with continuing to search to be sure because some of us are skeptics, like myself, but when I read the word of God (the bible) it sings to my soul. When I think about talking to God, my mind goes straight to the bible & it clears my mind. My response when God spoke to me was "Idc if it takes me 30 years I'll try" & I've been searching and chasing God ever since. Not here to counter you btw I understand your take, but both positions could be wrong. (mine & the one you gave) I just think Jesus is reliable based of the historical account of his death & resurrection, how lived and taught, and how he was apparently sinless. Being a Christian has hands down been the hardest thing I've ever tried to do, I think the standard that God sets goes against what the world preaches and I can see why so many can't find peace in it. My first year trying the Christian walk I told my girlfriend that "THIS IS INSANITY"
@Woolburrr how are you with the Spirit bro? Is it leading you into truth and helping you renew and conform your mind to Jesus by reading the Bible? I appreciated your comment btw
I went through the same thing a few years back… everyone experience is different but I think I might know a thing or tow about what you are going through. It took me a while to get I settled but it’s the ultimate freedom to explore, I find truth in so many different modalities.
Your lips are pink but look on the bright side your skin is glowing!!!! Always interesting to hear your content. Always refreshing to hear a piece of your heart. Big up yuhself Joseph 🇹🇹
Hey Bro! Been following you since the start and still with you now. I still follow Christ and I get how this world, this life, and the interactions of many through millennia can bring your heart and soul to doubt. I can see how contradictions that appear to have to no plausible explanation and how the clouds of doubt in the sky of our mind snuff out the hope of believing in a God that most of us don't physically see or audibly hear. Yet, a silver line, a resounding chord, an echo of a heartbeat remains in the theme of every conversation - why are we here, what does it mean, where do my wants derive, what is good, and am I good? Further we ask, if I am good then why does bad happen to me or to those who I love. We wrestle with not feeling we're enough and constantly comparing ourselves to others with futile efforts to grasp meaning from countless self-help noveltry-esque books and to access some light to get us closer to the idealized version of us that measure to .... well I don't think we even know. But through all of these things, my hope in the reversal of life's entropy remains - in Jesus Christ - for me. And maybe that's crazy to most - to decide to believe. As a doctor seeing the body and all of its sinews literally brought me to tears with all of its incredible organization at every level (macro and micro), an intelligence that many of my colleagues chalk up to the universe (atomic gas, nebula, expanding matter and antimatter) to decide on the intricacies of our ordered existence on an evolving cycle racing toward the end of time (if one believes that time should end). I could never bring myself to tell any other person that they never where truly a believer in Christ because even believers doubt, from time to time - some for years at a time. What I will say is that despite what any of us feels or not, I believe, Jesus continues to loves us and express it through a choice for us to love him back or not. And don't we all love a good romance and a painful drama. My choice to love wouldn't seem as sweet if there were not those who chose not too love Him. So, everyone plays a part in a cosmic wisdom that I can't explain but that I believe God constructs, tends to and leads. Finally, I know that I love you dearly. I love your heart and many days wished to be a good friend to you - especially on the music writing tip (cuz we got that in common haha). Anyways, sorry for the long message, but your content as usual provoked me to thought. This time I decided to share my few thoughts with you. Warmly - Your forever Bro, -G.
hey thanks for engaging and sharing your thoughts g! beautifully written. sounds like you’re on a beautiful journey. glad i could play some part in that bro.
After watching your video, more of a draft that’s in my mind: “Perception steals the opportunity for me to have a blank canvas.” Meaning, even when I’m wanting to change how I feel/am/go about the faith I came up in, how far back would I have to go to start before my reality actually felt uncolored.” I respect you a lot brother, I think this journey you’re on is beautiful and can’t wait to see your journey become even more meaningful to you.
And you brought up the point that some Christians pity you. I don't - I follow you on ig and I am joyful that you have found success in overcoming things that people, Christians, anyone really, could struggle with - depression, etc. That is so good! And I can't be happier for you :)) I feel like you have a better grasp at overcoming these issues than most people, so it would be great if you could share with us about that too! - Will be on the lookout for those videos!! Love you from the bottom of my heart my Brother. And if there really is a God, who is all-loving, it's okay - because I think He loves you too and way more than me. As to your beliefs, I don't really care too much about it in some sense as others might, maybe because I believe in Christian Universalism (following Patristics), and I really do think it's okay at the end of the day, just because we can't have it all right anyway, and circumstances matter so much and many things are outside of my/our control. If Christ was the closest picture to God we'll ever have, and he was praying for forgiveness to those who were killing him on the Cross because they don't know what they're doing - that already says a lot to me & for me, I'm chilling. :) Much Love Bro!! P.s.: Chilling as in I don't care if people call me out for being a heretic or whatever XD I Think the act of praying for those who persecute you or do wrong because they don't know/a lack of knowledge - is pretty profound, Loving & insightful - that's all 🙏
oOoOoooOooooh....I am so glad I FINALLY have some free time coming up so I can enjoy this video without interruption. I ❤ how I always learn something from Joseph and his content. I look forward to learning something new in this video.
41:22 was relatable and reminded me of James Baldwin “to be a negro in this country and to be relatively conscious is to be in a state of rage almost all of the time”
Love you bro we left the faith around the same time for the same exact reasons. I never thought I'd come back. And I never thought you would, either. But by my SAME judgments and reasoning (which are still sound) our Creators brought me back. It was so weird and awkward, and had nothing sentimental about it. But that's exactly what I needed. Every quesiton I had now makes sense. I can tell that you hate that God allows evil to take place in our world, it's probably your biggest heartbreak. But you're allowed to have that hurt and anger towards God. I still do! I'm still SO pissed that God doesn't get off of his throne to take these pedophiles out and protect the innocent. But there is a hell to pay for them, still. And I believe God hurts just as we do when these events happen. At least I hope so. And WE have regulated our laws to not take matters into our own hands when back then, they killed those bastards. We're living in a world that is far from God because we drew it up that way, and now we're screaming WHERE ARE YOU... when in fact, it's our governed body that has taking power into their own hands and are failing how God would have his people protect those from evil.
The truth is no one does know the heart and we all didn't choose God first. There are many times the heart leads us to complacency and just not wanting the Lord. That's the truth. But none of us can speak on someone else's walk because we don't know it intimately. I will pray for you brother and I hope others do as well. You're loved ❤
I really appreciate your Videos Joseph. Your questions are genuinely asked. I have gone thru deconstruction as well, but in the end I've still arrived to being a believer, similar to Lecrae. I say that to say ironically I wish I could arrive where you are in some ways cause it seems easier in someways, mainly with working thru my own religious trauma., I have many friends who have de-converted and I have envied how they get to let go. I'm with you just on the other side. I personally can't deny my relationship with God, I can't deny him showing up in my life time after time. So I'm in a weird place. I believe but I understand why so many come to the conclusion you have. Keep up the good work. Life is complicated it really is. I wish I could get into a cut and dry place like other religious friends of mine.
the whole "you were never..." doesn't work in reverse because anything outside christianity is considered "lost" so they don't ask because they don't doubt that the new christian was ever really lost but to walk away from the truth of christianity to choose to be lost in the world doesn't compute unless you were never really saved to begin with
that’s a convenient doctrine to have. but what’s baked into it is the absolute certainty that christianity is true, which of course, many christian’s hold on to. but let’s assumed christianity is absolutely true, why is it impossible for someone to believe something that is true and then be later convinced of a lie? of course your only real argument will be “because the bible said so” and that’s kind of the end of the conversation. okay. but there’s no practical or philosophical reason to believe that. what about the person who truly believed, backslid in unbelief and came back? is that not the story of the prodigal’s son? but yeah i agree. they do simply consider others “lost” which is convenient but still doesn’t really address the question.
I am in the same place and see the beauty and usefulness in religion even though I may not agree with most of them nowadays. I see the comfort, strength, and guidance it can provide to most people and I am glad the author has found solace there. Personally, I can't turn a blind eye to the things I have learned about the foundations of Christianity and how far it has gotten from its roots. I do agree with you and the article that people need an ideology and/or mythology to hold on to and unify people. However, I feel like we need this now more than ever because our current and old ideologies are now clearly outdated. We see that they are no longer sustainable or doing the most good for society as a whole. I find it interesting that this is the reason the author chose Christianity as her new ideology considering that it falls into a lot of the same issues as the ideologies she claims she is against. Especially using one religion to fight off another religion. We are seeing the repercussions of that now and it often leads to bloodshed, one of the reasons she left religion in the first place. I do think people are looking for a new story because the American Dream and Christian Ideals aren't living up to their values and promises. I'm just not sure what that would look like moving forward.
I first followed you back when you were still Christian a few years back. I think your faith was part of what attracted me at a time when I was denying the start of my own deconstruction, it gave me hope for my own faith journey. Seeing this video is such a comfort, you have no idea. I feel like I'm not alone. I'm still mourning the end of my relationship with God. A part of my brain wants to turn off sense and keep believing, because believing in God was such a friking comfort. I'm realizing now that my life is truly my own and that's terrifying. I sometimes really want my faith back. You give me hope that I'm not alone. Thanks for speaking to the struggle
Thank you for sharing and evolving aloud 🙌🏾 Beautiful. As you live and share, you are adding to the intelligence of the collective consciousness, the source :) Which in-turn creates the most fantastic things. So exciting! I wish you well in your game of life! This is something that I learned while deconstructing.. I was raised in a small christian group since birth, the kind of group that meet in homes, and the moment I moved into my own home, I allowed my repressed being/the bit somehow not programmed, to speak to me. Contrary to what Christians/religious people believe... deconstructing/leaving is very hard, it's not a party, it can be sad, very lonely, but a necessary call to self. And what many can't comprehend due to various reasons including their Human Designs- is that it is spiritual, emotional and very *logical* . It is complicated to hear, bc many people are in a faith and of that mindset, but I’ll try....
Religion can be seen as evil (as defined as harmful/unpleasant) for an individual because it’s the giving away of one’s inner authority.. and even worse, doing so without evidence (evidence outside of personal experiences or what one perceives to be signs of evidence). When one commits to a faith/religion, and adheres to the attitudes and behaviors of that group/system, they are no longer holding true agency over their life. Whether the system/religion is “good” or “bad”, “truth” or “lie”, etc…one is still sacrificing the “realest”, “truest” thing they have as a human being- theirselves.
So let’s go a little deeper here…in Christianity and for the sake of keeping it brief, one gives their heart & soul/life to god/Jesus, supposed to become a “new man in Christ”, and lean not to their own understanding. The bible becomes an infallible truth and to be read/followed daily. Many Christians believe that a holy ghost is a companion and actively leads a believer day by day. So you can see how an ideology & entities are now in the driver seat of a human being’s life. This affects one’s perspective of their existence, their interactions with others, their perspective of the world and things such as politics, health, finances, science, art, other belief systems, economics, and abstract things such as love or time, etc. Whether one feels or believes Christianity is truth or not, good or bad or neither or whatever. The issue remains that there was a taking from that person. In short, the taking was an internal power in exchange for an external one.
Okay, so.. some might think, well 1) it was my choice and 2) it was for my good. But the thing with matrix traps is that they are almost always a choice, and they seem to be "good". So what is so evil about this? Well, this is very complicated bc it takes a desire to know, a deconstruction to take place, and a leveling of frequencies to innerstand. What I can say, is that one must fully innerstand what a human being is, what one can do, and just how powerful a human being is. The ultimate power of a human being is the power to create. Once one innerstand what that really means and how that works, one will discover just how evil (defined as harmful/unpleasant) it is to give one’s self to an external source of “power”. Or exchange one’s power for another.
I remember there was a Christian hymn that goes a bit like “…without him (speaking of god/Jesus) I am nothing.” Yikesss. It goes beyond just being a follower/follower of rules, goes beyond the negative impacts of religion such as rigid thinking, instilling fear, prejudice, physically harming others,etc., it goes beyond all the harmful things stated stemming from religion throughout history. Most people do not innerstand what they are, and so they believe/feel less than and fall for traps. Religion isn’t the only trap. On planes outside of what you see with your eyes, people sacrifice themselves and their power to create all the time. And to do so is to act against one’s self, to betray one’s very existence, to make an enemy out of one’s self, to reject self. I mean it doesn’t get more evil (as defined as harmful/unpleasant) than that. Of course… not all will get this. Those who get it, get it and those who don’t-stick to their scripts under the guise of choice (which is not a full representation of the power people have) until they do get it or just never do. If one is happy living their religious life, well..everything is permissible, but not everything is beneficial or as I like to add- optimal.
I should also add that everything one seeks in a religion or god (external source) is within. Religion is evil on a personal level bc it’s tricky. It tricks one into believing-which is the giving of one’s energy+ power of creation (bc believing is creating) to the religion (matrix trap). Which 1) empowers the trap & 2) keeps one from creating from one’s own will for one’s own will. Some religious people might feel this a good thing, considering others who do, say, heinous things… but if everyone was operating from a place of their own power/creation… this (heinous/negative things,etc.) would be something people wouldn’t have to worry about. Take a moment to consider what that really means..... Religion is evil because it makes you sign an energy contract on your ignorance of your power, but everything it offers, all its positives, can be created *without* the exchange. This contract theme can be seen everywhere in this world. Whether it be in entertainment, children’s fairytales, life experiences, etc.
I commend Joseph for not only sharing but allowing for comments. There’s a lot of love here. Where there is not some comments reflect the exact examples Joseph presented- being dismissive to what was expressed thoroughly. The tendency for humans to be strange never ends.
2 things. 1 What you said at 31:32 about the most common phrase Christians says when ppl leave the faith is that you were never really a believer ….is so spot on!!! I never realized that the opposite is never asked. 2. The thing about conservatives hijacking the word Woke! 💯 ugh it’s so true 😒 Idk if Naked Pastor coined this phrase but he said something like “my home of origin is Christianity ..but I have other cottages” is something I like.
I think the phrase Christians use "you were never really a believer" is possible and that's why they use it. Could they be wrong of course, I remember I talked to an atheist once and he legit told me I was never really an atheist at one point. Then he gave reason to why that might be the case and his reasoning was pretty good but it didn't apply to me. I've been "Christian" for 4 years now. I can promise you for the first 3 years If someone said your not really Christian to me they might have been right. Sometimes whether your Christian Atheist or whatever its possible your just going through the motions. I tell my girlfriend all the time who claims to be Christian that she's not Christian and that she more so wants to be. Belief is harder than people actually think, sometimes you want to believe for whatever reason you may have but you don't actually believe in your heart. Hopefully that clears somethings up, I'm not the best at communication but I try
@@dominicsey3032 thanks its been so tough. I think my atheist background has helped me to be honest. Going from arrogant to be legit humbled. I don't step without God
@@dominicsey3032 You have great awareness. I think that is actually one of my problems. I do make myself small and sometimes fear takes over and I sit back. It's like I know what to do but then I don't know what to do. I don't want to be wrong & I feel like like sometimes I'm in a position that is to burdensome for me. Sometimes it makes me angry with God because I feel like I can't do this stuff "alone" I wish that I could literally hear him. I'm still patient and I'm still serving but sometimes it cripples my spirt. I don't have to many people to talk to about this. I started a home church because I know I need to go to church, but I'm leading the church! I feel like who am I to do this!
Joe, I’m watching as a Christian who is very much assured of my faith, but I’m open to any perspective that furthers my understanding of the reality that we live in, even perspectives that challenge Christianity. I don’t consider myself religious, in the since that I’m part of a God/Deity based practice that benefits me in some way. I feel that my conversion was a genuine entrance into a relationship with God through a spiritual rebirth and joining to the finished work of Christ. I followed you years ago, and I was inspired by your messages, but I am sad to see you struggling with your faith. If you belong to God you can leave Him, but he’ll never leave you, because you are his. Question: wondering what is the basis of your cognitive dissonance? I find that at its core, the Bible/Christianity makes the most since of the world. I am sad to hear you speak without confidence, hope, or boldness. If you don’t respond, I understand. If nothing else I hope that this encourages you to keep asking questions and consider all possibilities, including the dissonance that understandably troubled you while following Christ.
i don’t have any current cognitive dissonance about christianity/the bible currently. i’m also not struggling with faith. that struggle is over lol. i am confident in exit from christianity. i can boldly and certainly say that life is ambiguous.
Yep, I’ve come to the same conclusion in the past. The truth is that the world seems ambiguous because there is a spiritual paradox governing our world. 1. Christ has conquered sin and death, and that reality is realized with his kingdom, although not yet perfected 2. God allows Satan, evil, and sin to operate in this world until the “appointed time”. That is a hard reality, and manifests as a world that appears “ambiguous”. However, the reason for this paradox is made clear in scripture, “but do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years is like one day. The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance” -2 Peter 3: 8-9 For the sake of his children, he will endure this world which will ultimately reject his grace. Just as he raised up and endured Pharaoh, he will endure this world for the ultimate goal of presenting His glory to all who will worship Him forever. Grace and Peace, brother.
@@flightsfeelings you literally used the word “confusing”. Also, you primarily talked about “Religion” and did not specifically elaborate on what you did not believe about the Bible, why, and with what proof. I indeed was listening carefully. It appears you were alluding to your experience with churches and their indoctrinations. Only 20% have actually read the Bible. So by default, most people are going off word off mouth vs sitting down and reading for themselves (including the parts removed by the churches). That was the point of my comment. There’s a d@mning amount of historical, archeological, astronomical, and other scientific evidence that corroborate the accounts in the Bible. It literally lays out the math for an accurate calendar system - something the Europeans didn’t figure out until the 16th century (~5k years later) and still haven’t got it down to precision. What you choose to believe is always your choice. I don’t have the right to judge.
@@flightsfeelings Comment was broad & wasn’t targeted to you, but we can address… you primarily talked about “Religion” and church indoctrination; did not provide specifics on what you didn’t believe about the Bible, why, or proof to support that disbelief. Only ~20% have read the ENTIRE Bible. % gets smaller when one considers those that have read the books excluded by the churches. Some of your commentary suggest you haven’t read (or comprehended) the entirety of the KJV, NIV, ESV, etc versions.
@@Jules-fr5gm Some of your commentary suggest you haven’t read (or comprehended) the entirety of the KJV, NIV, ESV, etc versions." 1. and that's where you're wrong. i know you'd wish for that to be the case but it isn't. i have read the entire bible. i literally only attended churches that exposited through an entire books of the bible week by week for years. 2. no i dont comprehend the entirety of the bible (and i don't desire to). are you suggesting that you do comprehend all of it? i dont see how yall make comments like this and still feel like you're the humble one in this scenario lol also, f*** the kjv translation. lol it's a terrible translation lol. ESV cool. CSB cool. NIV decent too. NASB. whatever.
I read Ms. Hirsi’s book, “Nomad” a couple of years ago, when I was going through my own journey of unpacking my faith; investigating what I had believed for more than 20 years… I grew up as a Christian, (I am Kenyan), and yet much of what Ms. Hirsi was explaining in her book made so much sense to me, & helped me to unpack my dilemmas too. She explains in her book, among many other things, the dilemmas of religion in Africa, (and the dilemmas of coming from a tribal [communal] culture…the desire to individuate), how even though you may succeed in leaving physically, it is a real challenge to leave emotionally, and choose a different way of seeing, thinking and existing…a change in perspective…and what is lost when you make that choice. All of it was so relatable to me, as much as my context was Christian. Ms. Hirsi however, sometimes mentioned in passing (in that book), that the dilemmas of a Christian woman in Africa were lighter than those of a Muslim one…I often disagreed with that line of thinking; There was a lot of advocacy around the African women's issues…complexities that are a direct aftermath of Islam, and I thought that much of what she talked about that she attributed to Islam, were very real issues on this other side too, for the Christian woman. So, when I heard that after so many years she joined the Christian faith, I was amused & curious too. I read the article too, and thought that the arguments that she made so many years ago against Islam, were no different from those that could be made against Christianity in Africa too; the context of her book, “Nomad” is Somalia, Ethiopia & Kenya; The arguments that she made for Christianity when she chose to join the faith last year, are the same arguments that could have been made for Islam. Issues of faith can be quite complex, and quite confusing. We’re often searching & doubting & investigating…that is the human reality, and it is okay.
wow! maybe i should check her book out. like i said im late to the party so i didn’t realize how influential she was. i’m curious about her journey as probably some folks are about mine lol cause from the outside looking in, it dont add up. i’d really like to hear her reasoning for the truth claims of christianity. not to try to dismiss her but genuinely curious how a raised muslim turned prominent atheist gets around to jesus rising from the grave.
You were one of the first people I enconter when I began exploring my faith in God. Watching your journey, I sincerely hope you find the truth you're searching for. Just because something is useful doesn't mean it's true, but rather it needs to be true and useful for the individual. Really glad that you are sharing your experience!
i’m not searching for any singular “truth.” there’s no preconceived conclusion i’m looking for. i’m simply living life and receiving what comes. i appreciate the well wishes and thank you for giving a moment to listen fr!
💙 Thanks for the video Joe, I'm Christian but honestly I know I could be wrong - I'd probably take the same stance as Paul (if Christ isn't risen, our faith is in vain - cuz our faith is literally based on Christ XD; OT points to Christ, in NT we find Christ is the most accurate picture of God/closest we'll ever get - if indeed Christ's words and actions are true) - so I really appreciate your videos. So Honestly, if Christ isn't true - I have no qualms giving up on what I believe in. And at the end of the day, I think we're all just humans grasping at truth, imo - I really do believe all "truth" is approximate as it pertains to us, or truth comes in extents, so yeah honestly even if Christianity is true - people could be wrong about many things, and i doubt a single person can get it "all right", and even then, it would still be lacking in some sense, and it shouldn't surprise us because at the end of the day we're just fallible beings - which is more reason why we should be graceful and compassionate to one another - irrespective of our beliefs (Any of us could be wrong, no one has it all right, some more than others, and even then others may have got right what they haven't). I admit I do doubt sometimes, and I try to keep myself accountable - but yeah, I really do appreciate your videos because they help me a lot! And I appreciate the honesty and insightful thoughts :))
Joe, we have very different stories with you coming from the "born and raised in the faith" kind of side while I (as the only "believer" in my family) found some sense of meaning and refuge in the faith while my family was completely falling apart due to my parents not taking responsibility for their own stories, hence giving us generational trauma which traumatized and deeply estranged us. My faith lasted half of my life... and I've been to the evangelical extremes which I am now ashamed of because I see how lacking that was. With post-traumatic sickness turning my life upside down, my faith began shaking and it's been one of the most painful things to realize it slipping through my hands. Faith equaled family to me, though I always lacked a sense of true belonging. Loosing or letting go of that is hard!!! I keep coming back to your art, your thoughts, your voice that I relate to so much even though my questioning is different from yours. I lost the emotional connection to God; and from that all the others. Funnily, I questioned the validity of my own faith experiences spread over a decade. At the moment I find peace calling what I lived through survival mode. I had to cling onto something in order to survive, even if it would be someone I now find more imaginary or very disinterested, distant, uninvolved. I also find some peace in my own taking of responsibility for my life. I have let go and cut our all harmful relationships and only kept the equally wholesome, respectful, supportive. I've been going to trauma therapy to connect with my own emotions and process my life experiences. I've been fighting for my legal rights for welfare, did a police report against my mother who was the main perpetrator against my siblings and me. I've founded my own small business to test my own boundaries for work and express myself through my own art. In a lot of ways you have been a role model. How honest you are with yourself and other people no matter how painful it is to feel reality. The nuance you communicate: Life really is VERY complex & easy answers won't hold up. How you make safe spaces, again for yourself first and then for others. In a sense, that has become my life mission. I want people to be able to be their whole selves around me. Thank you for being so vulnerable publicly. It speaks to people like me who live thousands of kilometers away. Words can't describe how grateful I am for your output, even art that you have hidden again like your spoken word about depression. I guess the essence for me has always been that you help me be more present and more aware. So, once again, thank you for that!
crazy I don't know if I remember you making Christian videos but ever since I left the church I've seen a few people have this type of outlook. I've said this before I miss the way I've felt when I was Christian it was ana amazing experience. but then it became fake for me. I changed my way of thinking and my line of logic completely changed. I CAN NEVER BELEIVE IN GOD AGAIN. and its truly feels like grief. But i turn my life around by finding the power within myself. its hard but everyone is capable of doing anything they want to do. you just have to have faith.... faith in laterally anything.. I found faith in myself.
As always, it is really interesting hearing your thoughts and side of things, thanks for the honesty. Anyway, for lips I recommend using the lip scrub from "Lush", apply a lil on lips and gently press and massage in a rotating way for like 20-30 sec on each lip, once a week. Apply your daily lipbalm right after and make sure that the lips are free from any sugar residues of the scrub as it may damage the skin. DO NOT overdo it, once a week is enough. I've been doing it for years and it's been fine. I recommend letting your lips be for now and just treating them with normal lip balm til you feel they have "healed", one I can recommend is Labello Med Repair, thats the only lip balm I acknowledge as such lol, but if you got one that you the biggest fan of, use that instead, as we all have different and unique skin types, so what may work for me may not work for you and vice versa. I wish this comment was sponsored but eh, tryna help a brotha out
I love your take on this I had to watch it a couple times so I could really process everything you said and really understand your heart. As a Christian I appreciate you even letting us in on your journey it’s not easy sharing you closest thoughts with the world. Whether you choose Jesus or whatever I’m still a huge fan and its all love and blessing to you on your journey. I can’t wait to hear more and if another Christian never told you, I know your journey was genuine bump what everybody else saying lol ❤
I'm Haitian, and there's a song we sing at church that says "M pa vle gen tan, pou m tande yon lot vwa, ke ou, Yaweh," which means, I don't want to have time to hear any other voice besides yours, Yahweh. I think when we take the time to shut everyone else out and only listen to God and His voice, everything slowly starts to make sense. Praying for you and everyone else who is on this journey.
yes, i have this same experience as well. i talk about in my video “god in the oatmeal”. when we slow down and take time to shut everyone else out, everything slowly does start to make sense. my definition of “god and his voice” just doesn’t require as much specific doctrine or dogmatics as yours includes.
i want touch on the Ayaan Hirsi Ali subtopic i find it funny that Christians are celebrating and parading Ayaan's conversion to Christianity. i am familiar with Ayaan (as i have seen a couple of her debate videos, majority of them being debates against Islam) and i never really was convinced with her arguments (as i am an ex Christian, now Muslim). so color me surprised when i heard she converted to Christianity, and when i read her article "Why I Am Now a Christian," i was left more confused after reading her article. i barely saw any claims for why the Bible is true or any arguments for the existence of God, her reasons seemed to be more political than theological. a political tool used to fight Communism, Islamism, and woke ideologies. i can't remember who said this but it will always stick with me. it seemed like she didn't convert to Christianity but converted Christianity into her world view (meaning she fell in love of her idea of what Christianity is rather than what Christianity really is and what it stands for).
I think other faiths and beliefs don’t get the same push back of “they never were” because other beliefs tend to be very actions based vs faith based. Rely heavy on ritual and doing.
christian’s are just as ritualistic. they just do this “relationship vs religion” jargon to make it seem like it’s different. i don’t get why this P.R. move is so popular. in any case, even if we assumed other faiths are more “ritualistic” it’s still acting in faith that these rituals do something. it’s still faith based.
To me, one of the hardest things about Christianity, is that being a part of the community relies on belief. I’ve had a few conversations with my close friends who are Christians and they all seem to say that belief is a choice. I disagree with them, and do not think that one has the power over what they believe and don’t believe(for the most part). All this to say that since Christianity is “belief” based, it isn’t really up to the individual whether or not they can be a part of the church. On another note please consider watching the Pixar movie “Soul” if you haven’t already haha.. it’s inspired by black culture, music is a huge theme, mainly about existentialism, and the main characters name is Joe.
I really appreciated this video. Love the thoughtfulness and insight. Although I’m still a believer (still plugged into the matrix haha) I felt the passion and heard a lot of truth in this.
I am so happy that you have found peace in your heart. 😊 Don't even get me started on the misuse of woke. My biggest issue is they can't even define it for real. Just like CRT😂. I read Infidel by Ayaan Hirsi Ali and it was intriguing. Now...*Kanye Shrug*
My Good Brother! Search learn and explore. Get your own understanding in what it is that you need. Do what you need to do and may it bring you peace. Blessings and Love to you!
It broke my heart when you left but as a fan and a believer I accepted your choice, because at the end of the day free will is an expression of love. I've learned to ask God the hard questions . It's not always rainbows and sunshine you know that better than I do. I'm a seventh day adventist and that's one tough thing to be in a world where you think everyone knows what you know. You realize it's not that way our journeys are different and you have your own path to walk as do I. You can change your mind any time in life to different things and it's your choice. No matter what you are I still love you. No matter what you choose as long as you are content with the decision you make when all has been said and done. It's a great controversy for a reason. The Truth is a hard pill to swallow it's so much more than our existence.
@@flightsfeelingsInteresting 🤔 If I hadn't witnessed it myself to be true I'd agree 💯. It's hard to deny something you've tested for yourself..not some denomination or preacher or lay person. By the way side note; on the shores reminds me of "Ocean" it might not be connected but I absolutely love that track.
well i’d find it pretty difficult to “experience” history truth/fiction but present experiences vary for sure! it’s beautiful you’ve found something truthful and meaningful for you. i have also found and continuing to find that for myself as well. 🫶🏽🤲🏾
@@flightsfeelings Exactly what I said in my first comment as long as you are content with what you have found or are finding when all is said and done that's all that matters. Still have mad love regardless.
Amazing reflection Joe. I see the desire in your heart to keep on living this life despite having certainty in an ideology. That shit is scary and can feel so lonely, but it’s real. I heavily agree with your statement about how some people may just be more religious than others. Just like there may be people who are more in alignment with living a logical mindset as opposed to one based off of feelings. And at the same time I think some people are able to flow in and out of these camps (maybe even form some type of unity between the 2? I’m not sure). I think that’s where the word “spiritual” can potentially come into play?? I came to a point where I had to acknowledge that I just fucking missed being in a church despite the many traumatic experiences I endured while there. I missed how I was able to be around a group of people who in some shape or form wanted to be involved with community serving (that felt life fulfilling; and useful as you phrase it) I currently attend a progressive church that is lgbt+ affirming and asserts a bunch of other left ideology/theology. Yet even with this church, I can still see room for improvement. Many times I go in there I tell myself, “man I don’t really believe all this, yet there’s some message of love and unity that I respect” Idk if love can be labeled as useful or truthful, perhaps more useful right? But being able to be surrounded with people who come from various backgrounds than mine and who gather in order to try and implement more healthy relationships and live out the concept of love is enough to get me out of my bed and give me the desire to live. I’ve come to accept that being religious just helps for the most part (& sometimes I’m annoyed that I still consider myself “religious”). Yet at the same time, my desire to have the truth is still there. Yet idk if that really is attainable in this world just like idk if the concept of god is ever attainable. I just had to ask myself “what gets me going? Makes me happy? Despite it being true?” That question obviously asserts that i’m dismissing the idea of truth, but damn man I just want to live a life that I find at least a little fulfilling, ya feel me? I don’t want to live in these camps where I just fight my “truth” against others. I just want to Inter-be with the people around me. I like that you’re attempting to form a community that isn’t necessarily linked to a Christian tradition. It’s not easy, yet I too hope that you can find that community you long for (or heck maybe even create? Or have created already through this channel?) Thank you for your words fam, sending you love and peace 🫂
You mentioned certain intellectual arguments that have convinced your mind that Christianity cannot be true. Please Describe these intellectual ideas that prove christianity cannot be true in a clear manner so we can be enlightened. Get to the meat of the matter.
though i have and will mention things don’t add up for me, that’s not really the point of the matter. this channel is not for trying to convince people christianity isn’t true. that was never my goal. this channel is more existential in approach. a million other channels will gladly give debating points about arguments for and against christianity.
Joe, I totally track with you. Have you considered looking into more progressive circles of Christianity or explored other rooms rather than the basement of fundamental christianity? It’s actually helped me with my faith and feels more accepting for me
@@flightsfeelingswhat was the issue with progressive Christianity for you if you don’t mind me asking? I consider myself a progressive Christian now. I like to drink and smoke on occasion, I even cuss a little 😁. I didn’t like who I was becoming in institutionalize religion. I’m a Christian because I still accept Jesus and his teachings. I’m not too sure about the rest of the Bible. I’m confused When you say you “wish” you could be a christian, I’m wondering why you don’t research other religions or maybe another form of Christianity that better suits you. There’s many other rooms. But if you choose not to that’s totally cool too bro, God bless !
@sarab1625 well you're all on a spectrum of what is considered progressive vs conservative. no real way of escaping that. if you believe the bible is the inerrant word of god, a literal adam and eve, marriage between one woman and one man, original sin, hell, the need for a divine savior, the divinity of jesus, his sinlessness, died on the cross, he literally rose from the grave and he is coming back, etc... then you're more or less a conservative christian. if you don't believe those things... you're more or less progressive. if you believe some of those things and not others.. then you hold some progressive christian views and some conservative view.
@@simplysarab1625 like to separate my religious beliefs from my moral ones. Believing those things may be cool but it doesn’t make anyone a better person. Doctrine is man made. I see progressive Christianity as you believe what you want as far as doctrine as long as you try to love God and love people. That is really the extent of my doctrinal beliefs. It gave me a way to hold on to the mustard seed of faith I had, while being agnostic about the evangelical doctrine that’s man made. I don’t see how that would drive someone away from God tho?
41:15 This was a good talk and your last point summed it up well! I usually don’t mess with the phrase blind faith since it’s a kind of cheesy Christianese for trusting God by casting any thoughts, doubts, or struggles aside. I’ve always taken pride in the positive things that draw me to believe and not just this “trust out of duty” (if I can make a distinction between faith/trust and belief) But when much wisdom opens our eyes to the nuances of the world and the darker and less sure parts of our belief systems, that’s where a choice can be made. The options end up being a sort of selective, intentional blindness so as to hold on to faith, or to make peace in the sorrow that massing knowledge brings. In some sense it really is hard to escape pity either way with that choice, even before considering the other ways pity finds seeps in! I haven’t fully come to that fork in the road yet but even as a believer now I have to reconcile some things in that tension between doubt and belief, experience of the divine and lack of experience, etc. And it’s in moments like that where the idea of faith or trust is so much more fitting than belief to what Christianity asks of us. I don’t mean to say it’s any more admirable, but so far I’ve made more peace with “blind faith” after thoughtful consideration, but could never have it prior. May we all find measures of peace in good time!
I highly recommend checking out the channel harmonic atheist. Lots of great and low key interviews with other people who also deconstructed explaining how they came to that point and their overall experience with deconversion and Christianity, which you may relate to. I like this page, because it helped me to know that I am certainly not alone and "crazy" for leaving the faith. Ps: Perhaps you could also even do an interview with the host (Tim) haha. Bye
@@flightsfeelingsi may have commented this before, but I really think you would love exploring the Spiral Dynamics model. It’s single-handedly helped me make sense of so much about our development as humans/cultures/societies.
vaguely remember it. one of the earlier apologetics books i’ve processed. i can’t remember what year it was as. remember it being like a “hey i’m just a journalist looking for the truth”. a more broadly accessible book. his arguments are not very different than your typical classical/evidential approach to apologetics that you can find many places now online. maybe he’s to thank for that 🤷🏽♂️
I love the part when you spoke about usefulness vs truthfulness. I somewhat always thought about it those terms as well. Though I may not believe in it personally I'm glad it does exists because without the world would be insanely chaotic if there were no genuine fear to where people were destined in an afterlife. That fear and not a heart that simply wants to be kind in this life is what I believe keeps most people on the straight and narrow... barely.
Hey Joseph, I don't know you personally or how your relationship with God was or what was the reason you actually deconverted (although I would like to know that) but I do want to ask brother, what and who was God to you? Was he an experience you wanted to feel? What was he to you and what would it take in an ideal world for you to believe that there was a God or that Christ came to die dor your sins and bodily rose? Pardon me for asking brother but I'm asking out of genuine curiosity to understand why or why not God and where you're coming from
Hey, um…..I don’t know if you will ever see this comment in which I hope you do!! I honestly am sorry that you experienced what you did when you told other Christians that you were leaving the faith. What they said should have not been said because it only draws you away from God and His Love. I even apologize for the terrible experiences that you had with the church ESPECIALLY from men😢. I actually think that you can believe and that eventually you will again in Jesus name. If you’re open to it. I will be praying for you because whether you believe it or not, I know how you feel when it comes to disbelief and it’s not easy to bounce back from. Nevertheless, regardless to whether you come back or not; TRUE BELIEVERS IN CHRIST still love you. I may not know you but I love you sooo much and so does God.❤️❤️ love your singing voice btw, it’s very soothing!!!
Also one interesting point you brought up was something I was thinking about last night, but I won't bore you with the details - it's the point you made that just because something is useful, it doesn't make it true. Imo - I think what is most useful, has the most truth. Something I thought about last night was - if someone told me I was a _ in my past life, and I really believed in it and from that belief I made it into a reality, after working on that thought in my mind for some time, and I finally reached my goal of becoming a _ - I think even if it is a lie, there is still truth to it, and it is from that truth that usefulness is found. More specifically, perhaps it is the fact that I could really be a _, but one might object and say nah you weren't a builder before, or whatever _ is, maybe then, at time "t" I am a _, and that holds true throughout (you could add more specifications if necessary in order for that to hold true throughout), because I believe truth in its fundamental essence doesn't change, or perhaps just the thought that it is "true"/the possibility is true, and if it is possible then the truth has to exist prior for it to be possible to begin with imo. But I think in some way, usefulness cannot be separated from truth, and in my thought experiments, what is the most useful has to hold the most truth. Maybe it could be that the principles Christ preached about were pretty true, even if he wasn't the messiah - and so Christian principles are still useful because its principles are mostly true/hold truth! But I don't believe that as of now as I still have faith in Jesus. Just my two cents though!! Would love to hear your thoughts on this as it's an interesting point that you brought up :)
looking back now, what comes to mind if you try to recall moments when you were praying at night before sleep, or worshipping? I find myself in those moments, and genuinely feel a presence. thats me, but for you, what do you now perceive that as- if you ever felt that way? Idk if you have seen the Hubberman Lab, and how he mentions prayer provides peace. Thats distinct ofc, did you feel any sense of peace in prayer? thanks for reading joseph, much lov bro
Have you ever read the book The Pilgrims Progress ( A modern -Day Version ) of John Bunyan's Pilgrim's Progress? If you haven't I think you should give it a read
On fire, amazing ! 🔥I really appreciate and value how you express your ideas, being vulnerable, exploration, as well as putting your self out there. It is clear you understand the value in expanding self awareness. Separating the dogma of colonialism and religion from the connection to a personal higher power is no easy task! Jesus did not write the bible, and was not a caucasian man with long blond hair and blue eyes. I ad met you are a better man than I am, I do not wish I could believe what people believe, blind faith feels like a trauma response! If you deny "religion" has multiple sides, you benefit from the hierarchy. My strategy when I have the energy, if someone's believes are so secure, it should stand up to a little scrutiny! My experience with highly religious individuals has been extra! Superficiality, regurgitating, and validation seeking absent security. I am astonished "christianity" survives under the weight of its generational baggage. Example woke = thinly veiled ism... soon the wealthy caucasian christian conservatives will hijack something else, replaying victim appropriation to deny the collective irrational fears to distract from the harms of their behavior. Please remember you don't need approval from anyone, any "thing", entity, hierarchy, or system real or perceived. I will close with... Shallow brooks are noisy; deep waters are smooth.
How do you find purpose in life? What is the point of your days on earth if the basis of your existence was caused by an uncauser? Who or what do you live for and how do you feel knowing that your "what" or "who" has an expiration date? Genuinely curious - God Bless
thanks man. Yoga is amazing haha. It’s been a struggle for me lately, having “God in my front pocket” was the way I used to find comfort in hard times. I’ve been trying to find alternative ways to comfort myself. I’m also doing my best to accept that I am gonna feel overwhelmed and vulnerable at times until I adjust.
What aspects did you have to overlook or rationalize to adhere to Christianity in the past, and what contradictions or inconsistencies did you find difficult to reconcile? Furthermore, what specific factors led you to no longer identify as a Christian? You've mentioned finding Christianity useful, but not necessarily true, whereas my faith is grounded in its truthfulness rather than utility. My commitment to Christianity stems from my conviction in its truth. Thus, I'm genuinely interested in understanding the reasons, experiences, or insights that have led you to confidently reject Christianity as true for yourself.
i’ve spoken more about here and there in other videos on this channel. probably not very efficient or productive to hash out in comment sections. but also general, my concern or interest on this channel really isnt to try to convince others to leave christianity or even to convince christian’s that i thought deeply enough about my decision.
@@flightsfeelings Thank you, I will check your videos out. I totally understand your intention is not to convince others to leave Christianity. I also was not asking you so you can convince me you have thought deeply about your decision; rather, I'm genuinely interested in understanding your thought process and what led you to your decision. I find it intriguing that you've expressed a desire to believe, or you wished that you believe, how in the past you have observed others, even those who are highly intelligent and educated, seemingly needing to ignore or suppress certain aspects to maintain their faith. Conversely, you've felt unable to do the same, prompting your exploration into alternative perspectives. I'm curious about this because I share a similar commitment to not dismissing truth simply for the sake of maintaining my beliefs. I did not ask to debate you or argue you down or even convince you of anything.
i don’t think you came off argumentative at all. i really can only go off the now hundreds of interactions online i have had with christian’s with similar questions. unfortunately they tend to have the approach that’s not based purely on curiosity but wanting answers that may make them feel more assured in their own footing. just been my experience over the past few years.
@@flightsfeelings I see. I'm sorry to hear about your experiences with other curious Christians. Just to clarify, I'm not seeking answers to reinforce my own beliefs. I'm intrigued by your journey because you were deeply engaged in Christian study yet reached a different conclusion. I am Christian and I am saying it's the truth and you were Christan and saying it's not the truth, I wonder what the difference in understanding is. I'm genuinely curious about the reasons behind your change of perspective. I've noticed you haven't delved into the specifics of the intellectual challenges you faced with Christianity in your videos, but more so just kind of telling a very general answer, which is understandable. However, I'd be interested in hearing your side of the story and understanding the specific reasons that led you to reject Christianity. I'm open to having a conversation privately if you're willing to share, and by conversation I pretty much just mean hearing your story and your reasons, nothing to really do with me.
It’s something that has always tugged on me.. I know what the Bible says in regards to sexual immorality.. but I’ve just been really torn in life man, your videos are interesting to watch though.
Joe, I’m curious, if Christianity is useful, does that mean that an atheist/or someone who doesn’t believe in the Christian faith could use the Bible as guide or blueprint to things like being a man, marriage, parenthood, valuing life, etc? And if so, where does the usefulness end? For example, Ephesians 6:1-4 “Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. ‘Honor your father and mother’ (this is the first commandment with a promise), ‘that it may go well with you and that you may live long in the land.’ Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord.” This particular section tells us to raise our children in the discipline and instructions of the Lord and obey our parents in the Lord. As someone who doesn’t believe in the Lord, how do we carry out the usefulness of these statements in our everyday life as nonbelievers? Or are there only portions of the Bible that can be deemed useful, and others can - for lack of better phrasing - be thrown out? This is a genuine question, not a gotcha moment.
yeah basically. there’s a lot of great inspiring and insightful narratives and timeless wisdom in the bible. and a lot of regressive, contradicting, historically inaccurate, genocidal, and culturally nearsighted info in there too. a lot of it didn’t age well lol but some of it’s pretty good.
i hope society goes on believing in some sense. i see the ugly AND the beautiful of religion. that is to say, humanity can be ugly and beautiful. society is richer because of religion. i have a video on the channel where i talk at length about my lament of the loss/homogenization of black american christian culture. it has brought so much beauty to this world and it is slowly dying.
Just curious, and I'm asking because I haven't watched all of your videos, what would be your response if Christianity is proven true when Jesus returns? I dont want to say 'if' because i believe that. He will return... But since this is hypothetical for you, what would be your response if Christianity is proven true?
If you believe math is useful/true (2+2=4) to society, would that be making an argument for truth or usefulness? Just thinking about your morality argument.
can elaborate on how you see this as a 1 to 1 correlation to morality? im not sure of the point you’re suggesting. as a side point: something can be both truthful and useful. i simply said they are two different qualities. arguing that not having a moral value Giver would be extremely gray and inconvenient is not the same task as proving the moral Giver exists in reality. conversely, proving that a mathematical equation is true is not the same as suggesting the usefulness of that truth. einstein’s theory of general relativity was proven truthful many years ago and we are still exploring the usefulness of that equation today.
@@flightsfeelings hey thanks for responding. In your video you never mentioned that something can be useful and truthful at the same time but I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you believe that. I only used the math example because it is both useful and truthful. There is no way around it. I believe God gave us the morality and I believe it both useful and truthful.
@@everydaygainesyou don’t have to give the benefit of the doubt. i’m telling you in the comment above lol. i’ve never said something can’t be both truthful and useful. math is both truthful and useful. great. giving random examples of something being both truthful and useful still doesn’t negate my point.
I'm listening. I'm hearing a lot about religion...and I ask this respectfully as one imperfect human being to another...what has Jesus himself personally done to you? What about Him, brought you to the conclusion that you should not/could not believe in Him and what He's done? I'm not asking to trigger or argue, I'm asking for perspective.
@thshores I understand religion to be how I practice my faith, such as praying or worshipping "religiously"...but the person whom I pray to and worship is a person, and of course I believe Him to be without blemish, perfect, and loving. So when I asked I meant, what did the "person" named Jesus or Yeshua do or maybe even not do...but according to our difference of understanding, I can respect if you would still respond with the same answer. Thank you for your time. Much love.
the definition of religion is literally “the belief in and worship of a superhuman power or powers, especially a God or gods.” christian’s often try to give it a more rigid definition and then say “well that’s not what christianity is”. but when i say religion or religious people or religious thought, i literally just mean “belief in and/or submission to the supernatural”. i think it’d be hard to believe there are many christians who would say that doesn’t apply to them. i’m not sure who started the “it’s relationship not religion” PR campaign but man has it been effective lol but even the bible (james) has no problem with the word religion so im not sure why christian’s have developed such an aversion to it.
@thshores I apologize. It seems the way I worded my question and explanation implied that I have a problem with religion/the word religion...I don't. Maybe there was a better way to word my question for better understanding. Honestly, I don't think I was off, I do believe an assumption has been made about me concerning the way I asked the question. I agree, "religion" itself is not bad. I was attempting to make a distinction between lifestyle and relationship, but once again, I think there's a misunderstanding here. I digress. I hope you can understand where I'm coming from. Thank you anyway for engaging and responding.
Thank you for being vulnerable and real. I hoe you stop trying to believe that it’s real. You are trying to do something that only God will do. I did that for a while and trust me when I say it was stressful, torturous and hard because I was trying to do what only Jesus himself can do. I had to be at my lowest and was then able to call solely on Jesus. I had run out of any other words and was about to bust at my job. Jesus, to my actual surprise, showed up and I literally felt this sense of warmth and peace. I’m not saying in one day but, just ask and say it loud like you need your parent to come to the room quick. Another thing is I had to read the book of John. I got the actual chance to meet Jesus the one that was living on earth. Ate, celebrated, wept, had family members that thought He was crazy
@@flightsfeelings As long as you are living, that ship hasn’t sailed unless Jesus Christ/ God decided to let you actually go. I’m sure that you heard the scripture that “God is everywhere. Even if I am in hell you are there. Where can I go that you are not there?”. I have been in your shoes and I hope that you will get the best . 👍🏽💯
Hey Joe, Hope you're well! Thanks for the video. I always love your color grading. Have you anywhere described in detail your contentions with the truth claims of Christianity? That is to say, what is it exactly about or within Christianity that you find to be untenably untrue?
i believe religion is man’s attempt to feel like he understands what he actually doesn’t. . i believe christian faith has far more to do with great imaginations than great faith. i believe christianity is an island losing ground to the ocean of scientific advancement. cognitive dissonance is the only way to hold on to it and apologetics is the disingenuous attempt to relieve that dissonance.
@@flightsfeelings Thanks for responding. I don't mean to monopolize your time but would you be willing to say more? What particular scientific advancements are Christians being cognitively dissonant to?
@@M-JACOY any area. and i dont mean scientific advancement in the last 10-20 years but our understanding of the world since the enlightenment. cosmology. astronomy. astrophysics. evolutionary biology. anthropology. social sciences. what's funny is that it has been my experience in every one of these fields that christians will gladly accept and even celebrate whatever these sciences have to say... so long as it agrees with their theology. but they call into question anything that doesn't. is this theological fidelity or intellectual dishonesty? reason is only good so long as it supports their version of theism, and that is getting more difficult to do from the telescope to the microscope. name any scientific understanding that bumps up against christianity, and christians will do all kinds of mental gymnastics to make it work. and i USED to do the gymnastics. but at some point the line between theological fidelity and intellectual dishonesty becomes too thin.
Try talking with a Catholic priest. I used to be Atheist, but Catholicism has all the answers you need and the practicality of what faith is in real life. Reason and history took me into the Catholic Church. Faith is an act of will, informed by reason/evidence but also a gift of grace. Disagreement with Catholicism is the result of ignorance of its actual teachings. Remember we are dealing with paradigms, therefore you must subject your own position to the same scrutiny/objection and ask yourself, does my position/paradigm solve what I object against for a theistic worldview? Watch Thomistic Epistemology and The mind's encounter with God of Thomistic Institute. Aquinas gave the answers to all of your questions centuries ago.
always leery of people who have a one stop shop for all your skepticism, especially if that one stop is located in one person, such as Thomas Aquinas, who i’m familiar with. i’m familiar with many of the basic arguments for christian theism from early church philosophers. the ironic thing about going to a reformed seminary is that they rely heavily on the teachings of many early catholic thinkers. my first informal introduction to apologetics was actually through a catholic college campus org. yes, it is all paradigms. and at best, i strongly question a theistic worldview, especially on as specific as christianity. championing specific brand of christianity doesn’t solve the issues for me either. it is very much a leap of faith, and one that i apparently have not been afforded enough grace to do.
@@flightsfeelings here is the problem: The hermaneutic of suspicion. Are you also suspicious of your own ideas and thouthts? Do you really think I would have made my decision by only looking at 1 particular philosopher? Just shows me you are projecting your own bias instead of looking at the evidence. Ultimately everything you do requires a degree of faith, including trusting your own abilities or the methods we came to discover by using our abilities. There is quite a lot of stuff skeptics take for granted without question, including meaning, ethical imperatives or that truth exist. Nothing of this is meant personal, but one should also reason through the end what the consequences are if we would take this worldview. And I see many more logical, ethical and epestemic issues with Atheism than Theism. I came to conclude there are no unbelievers only idolaters. Nothing of this I say to demean you, but just give a different perspective. Always be welcome on Catholic Forum on Discord. All the best.
i am suspicious of my own thoughts and ideas. i speak of that quite often on this channel, if not this very video (i don’t remember). i have come to believe that any worldview you hold can lead to infinite regress and at some point, if you want to go on living, you must accept an “it is what it is” type of philosophy (or maybe an “i am that i am”). as you say, a type of faith, or as i call it, accepting some sort of delusion or myth. i am okay with this. i am aware of the inherent incompleteness of my worldview. i don’t take for granted morality or reality. i also speak at some length about this on my channel as well. theism (and again, not even a theism as specific as christianity) often simply offers the usefulness of, for example, moral absolutes, but rarely if ever realize they are not actually making an argument for its truthfulness or logical necessity. and even when it’s pointed out, it seems to difficult for them to truly grasp the distinction. and sir, i never assumed that *you* made your decision off one philosopher. but it was you was that quite literally suggested one philosopher to me, when you said “aquinas gave the answers to * all*your questions centuries ago” lol. so no i’m not projecting bias. i am merely responding to what you suggested. 🤷🏽♂️ if that’s not what you meant, you can also clarify but i am hardly projecting. there’s no need to take offense. and even if i did assume you did make decision off one philosopher, i don’t know you. you’d be surprised how many people do hang their hat on one or a small handful of individuals. take no offense. and in this same spirit, i take no offense when, instead asking questions to gain understanding, you seem to immediately jump to offering food for thought that you assume i have not wrestled with. i am no expert in apologetics, philosophy and theology but it has been an obsession of mine through countless books, seminary, workshops, discussion, podcasts, debates, teaching it myself, self reflection and tears since roughly 2009. it was actually through christian apologetics that learned the important task of always questioning my presuppositions over a decade ago. and i am thankful for that. but your language seems to assume you’re introducing me to new ideas rather than genuinely inquiring to see where our understandings and assumptions diverge. christians who engage with me here often seem to insert themselves in the role of teacher rather than equal peer student. i take no offense though. likewise, it’s clear you do not know me. “i conclude there are no unbelievers, only idolaters”. i mean, this is unsurprising. not really a hot or unique take. i could also say “i conclude there are no true christians, only homo sapiens with the insatiable need to hold on to myths.” but what would that provide for a productive conversation with an actual christian? you wouldn’t find that claim persuasive at all but it allows me a convenient evasion from the real issue: there are people who genuinely believe in the christian god and find many reasons for doing so. even if your position is true, you’d think the more whimsical christian apologetic approach would be to establish common ground with the supposed idolater who, as romans 1 suggests, already has a general revelation of god and his attributes through the perceived world. and then engage from there. you know, the classic teleological argument, rather than showing your hand from the jump. unless you’re not interested in conversation on common ground and are simply looking for a “gotcha” moment. which is also not uncommon. i find often that very many christian apologists, especially the ones in comment sections given how limited the medium is, seem to be interested in these “gotcha” moments and very few interested in honest engagement or inquiry with keenly relevant rebuttals.
@@flightsfeelingsI'm not here for gotcha moments, you are most welcome on Catholic Forum we have cordial discussions on a daily basis and deal with every kind of worldview and questions/objections, we will do our best to answer them to the best of our ability. All the best.
I hear what you’re saying but I actually see an encounter between a Christian apologist and an atheist or Muslim who converted to Christianity, the Christian could take the stance that Jesus was always there all along, no matter where you’re from. He’s omnipresent, omnipotent…etc. . All of the things you attributed to your intuition or Allah or other gods, was Jesus or the holy spirit all along. They wouldn’t consider the genuine faith of other pre Christian beliefs because they are already buying into the Christian supremacy idea. One true god, and so on and so forth.
@@flightsfeelings I don’t think it’s fine at all. But I can see how a Christian would say these things and it not be disingenuous. Being disingenuous implies intent. When one is heavily indoctrinated they genuinely think their way is the only way, sort of like the ego of a toddler. They can’t fathom a point of view that deviates from their worldview. In adults it’s form of stunted growth that makes it difficult to maintain a world that is safe to coexist with others who don’t share that view.
I feel like there is no genuine way to have a real and intimate relationship with God without honesty. The Christian spaces I grew up in did not allow for that honesty and all the shame and religious trauma made me look at God like a villain. Finding God/ the Devine in my passion and in everyday life without reading the bible has taken me aback because I didnt expect it. A lot of Christians believe there is only a few ways to know God, when a real relationship with God is all encompassing in all our beauty and imperfection. Deconstruction led me to the truth and the truth sets free.
Well, let's pray for Joseph. That this "deconstruction" will bring him back to Jesus
Wow, what an interesting perspective.
I was on the other side without my faith and Jesus, and Im so grateful he has shown mercy on me cause that other side was lonely! And it's not out of guilt or fear that I praise him, but he has TRULY saved my life. Filled the void I've been looking for my entire life. I cannot imagine losing this peace I have now and spirit leaving me!
I hope yall will find whatever you're looking for ❤
i have found it. it just isn’t jesus. more peace now than i ever had in christianity.
@@flightsfeelingsHey Joseph, genuine question where are finding your peace if it’s not from God or Jesus?
Thank you for your vulnerability. I’m a therapist, I work with a lot of Christian youth and young adults that are deconstructing, deconverting and a few other dees. One thing I feel we need to talk about, which you alluded to is the GRIEF that comes with that journey. Imagine getting to a point where everything you believed is spinning on its head. The loss of community, the confusion in identity and basically being marooned on an island where the ocean before you has possibilities that you have no idea how to navigate. I wish we could have more empathy for people on the shores(pun intended). As someone who grew up with non western philosophy it is interesting to see how spirituality is evolving with intersectionality and decolonization. What boggles me is how tightly religious people hold on to religion and it’s systems. Embrace the chaos, play trust your inner knowing and let it play out. That is the purpose of this life journey after all. Is it hard? Yes! Is it worth it? Absolutely. Aluta continua
Your writing is so captivating
My dad & sister died 3 weeks apart from each other & months before that all happened, I was reading in the book of Daniel how God had given Nebuchadnezzar these dreams..and Daniel was helping him interpret ..etc etc. I thought it was interesting because I had, at that time, never heard of this happening to people. It was just a mental note. Months later..I have a dream that I’m in this funeral with a blue casket in front of me and I was weeping in the dream with friends consoling me. Two weeks later, my Father (who I was extremely close to) passed away. A week later, I have another dream of being at another funeral, then the weeks to follow, my sister who was 27 at the time, died. Both were sudden deaths & while this sounds tragic…I could not get over the fact that God had loved me enough to prepare me all year for what was about to happen in the lives of my Mom and I. It would have ruined me that hitting me left field. That’s something that could never be snatched and His love , almost 18 years later, still impacts me to this day. This is such a condensed story..but my hope for people is not to try to convince anyone…but My hope is that people experience God in a way that nothing can be snatched from them. Not the pain that’s attached to what went I through , but just the reality of The Love of God.
I’ll always watch your videos Joe. They are always interesting and intentional thoughts.
every one has their own experience. i don’t try to believe them or explain them away. as i’ve had to learn, no matter how eventful or real it is for them, other people’s testimonial spiritual experiences ultimately have nothing to do with me. other than they are interesting narratives that give me insight into how they receive the world. and that in itself is still worth something.
@@flightsfeelings Thats my hope anytime that I share that. That it just gives insight and a different perspective. 🤎
I wish you had known the meaning of dreams. Such dreams aren't just to prepare and accept. Those dreams require prayer, fasting, and rebuking.
God loves us enough to warn us.
aaaaaah!!!!! woooow , thanks for sharing
And then there's people like me, severely traumatized through my own parents' neglect and abuse. At one point I also believed God could and would give dreams and the ability to interpret, but my dreams almost always were more confusing, or even discouraging, than helpful or encouraging. I have nightmares most of the time because through my parents' violence I've become disabled. And no matter how other people experience dreams or family or community or even living in their own body, it will never again make sense to me how I experience/d mine.
Ahh Joe, you took the words right out my mouth. I wanted to believe, I really wish it worked.
My brain just won’t stop questioning the things that are being taught. Now it feels like I’m being treated as a bad person because my beliefs have changed. Christian family & friends “praying” for me to come back to the religion as if I changed morally.
I do thank religion for building my foundation as a person. It helped me grow in many positive ways. Believing in something has gotten me out of many depressive episodes.. but the more I learn about the brain & science I have taken control of my life in ways that the church could have never.
It’s definitely been a journey, we will never have all the answers.. I just want to continue to grow as a person.
Love this. So relatable!
Such a powerful video. You perfectly articulated everything I feel when it comes to faith and religion. I spent so many nights asking myself why my mind can't get past soooo many discrepancies and contradictions of faith. I come to the conclusion that people just fear whats on the otherside but I just believe that whetherr I believe in the traditional "Word of God' or not, if I live a good life and not purposely harming others then I have no reason to fear what may or may not be on the other side. I'm living and loving the now with a kind heart daily.
Joe, I don’t normally write these but I can’t express how much I look up to you and how much your journey has helped me! I watched you when you were a Christian as was I resonated with your deconstruction journey which was he darkest time in my life, but your vids have helped me believe in myself and to push forward despite the loss in religion! Thank you so much
I just finished watching your video, and it was recommended to me by a fellow Christian. The thing that hit me most was the emphasis on Truth, not being afraid to ask the difficult questions...if Christ is Truth, then this is what he wants us to pursue with intellectual rigor and honesty. It led me to a deeper faith, but i can understand why you chose the path you have. I appreciated many of the distinctions that you made, and believe that Christians have alot to learn from this when engaging the modern world. True Christianity enters into the sufferings of their brothers, and does not dismiss their concerns, difficulties, or deeply held convictions. Thank you.
I feel like my faith journey has lined up with yours in a lot of ways, in my highschool years I would watch “Chase God TV” and I would watch your spoken word poetry and that really helped me in those years, but in 2020 everything about my faith started to fall apart, deconstruction blindsided me, and I had to get really emotionally and intellectually honest, and that’s when I listened to your first podcast episode on deconstruction and I realized this experience is not unique to me. All that to say thank you for sharing your journey, I am excited to keep following you and seeing where you go as I navigate my own faith journey and try and find passion and purpose.
Man, this content you have been putting out on this channel has been helping me so much. It feels amazing to know that I'm not alone or crazy for having similar thoughts post-Christianity. Thank you!
"I hate that we ain't make it to forever;
Probably ain't getting back together;
But that don't mean that I can't wish you better;
We ain't good good, but we still good"❣
😂
@thshores 😅...much love bro
I pray for you and hope that -- in all your learning, you come to the knowledge of the Truth. In my studies (sciences, healthcare, Bible), I’m consistently in awe of how creation testifies to the Creator.
Interestingly, I learned more about my posture and love for God from your deconstruction thought processing. So thank you for thinking out loud. Christianity is absolutely useful, truthful, and honestly even simple. It's just Love. That said, God is Love, and when you scratch the surface of every human journey, what is often found is this pursuit of Love -- if only we knew how to simply accept It. I wonder what the world would be like.
christianity is simple if you’d like it to be. but it’s also clearly not that simple if 66 books had to be written to get the point across. these days i have some sense adopted a simplistic type of christianity. one that not require the bible to be literally true or for jesus to die and rise from the grave.
i’m not trying to evangelize anyone here and im not interesting in being evangelized to. just here to discuss ideas and experiences. if you’d like to pray that i “come to the knowledge of the truth” i don’t think i have to be made aware of you wanting to do that. i’m sure god would hear you just the same.
@@flightsfeelings I wasn’t trying to disrespect you by sharing my hope for you, just affirm your pursuit of “wishing you could believe in Jesus” as your title cover and message in this video implied. & okay Joe ♥️
i’ve gotta become a better communicator on screen. it’s been a minute since i’ve consistently (weekly) wrestled through these things verbally. so my angle is probably not as clear as it should have been. so i take that fault. the point through the video is not that i could come to understand that christianity is true. i’m too far past that. but rather a sort of naive wishing for the veil to be put over my eyes, at least at one point in my journey. i genuinely don’t have any desire to return to christian faith.
The depth of your takes and being able to see the nuances and ambiguity of life is why I follow and listen to you Joe. We are all on such similar journeys and I think to myself after decades of being a pillar in the Christian faith and an anchor for many or a leader for others, that deconstructing into deconverting is NOT for the faint of heart. So many people tell me presumptuously how they believe I’m in a phase or I’m too smart for my own good…and that’s disheartening. There is something I call “the sin of certainty” that many believers possess where they are so certain that they could never be wrong which in fact shows how little they may actually know. It’s quite scary to tell a Muslim that they were never really Muslim just as much as it would be to tell me after 23 years in the faith and leading in ministry, discipline, building legs and ministries with pastors and faith leaders that I never believed. Unbelief doesn’t just happen, it’s grueling and it is an awakening and embracing of incompatible truths that don’t let us brush past them and be disingenuous to knowledge, logic or facts. I wish, much like you stated I could return back to a place of blissful ignorance with my head in the perpetual sands of the peaceful shores of outdated dogma but it’s not useful or truthful in so many ways. I have found this pity of mine for my brothers and sisters who are still in the faith creep up when I speak to them and ask questions and they KNOW things don’t add up and I ask them what they are going to do in light of that information. The answer is always similar…either they say nothing, disregard it, turn it back on me, or use a joke to deflect. I pity that experience and that position because for the first time it shows me which of us is truly bound to things that are absolutely illogical, perhaps untrue and not beneficial for humanity as whole. Great video brother, I look forward to connecting in the future. Like spirits 💪🏾
wow. probably articulated better than me 😂 start a channel. grace to you on the journey my g
I am interested in these questions that you’ve asked others. And what you assume to be “illogical”.
I get what you mean. A lot of people have already invested most of their years, degrees, social circles and status in the religion and it would wreck them to start again on everything. So it is easier to stay and “grapple” through the unbelief.
I couldn't move past heaven and hell ultimately being a lose lose for everyone, including the Christian. There was so much about Christianity that I loved but I just could not bring myself to move past the goal we were pressing toward simply not making sense. Another great video, Joe. You're sharing your thoughts but also holding up a mirror in many ways.
This comment is interesting to me. What exactly do you mean by heaven and hell being a lose lose?
Im always interested in what you have to say Joe. I too have struggled with reconciling Christianity and the set of inconvenient truths I’ve discovered. It’s painful to see the beauty, meaning, and cognitive stability that faith offers yet find it slipping away. The loss of faith is for me an inconsolable tragedy. I personally cannot find life satisfying without ultimate meaning. And I don’t think society can either. In the end, I’m willing to take the gamble of belief in Christianity because there are no other acceptable options. I take some comfort in the fact that there are some good intellectual reasons to believe in the claims of Christianity and I can only hope that there are good reasons why God chooses to remain so hidden.
Christianity is not a “gamble” and if you’re describing your faith this way, I would argue what you have isn’t faith or belief at all. As well saying that God chooses to remain “hidden” is more evidence to your blindness. Brother, I urge you there is a deeper bond than what you’re experiencing.
I too, learned of “inconvenient truths” as you put it, but I chose Jesus too. Well, He chose me! The power I’ve witnessed has become what is irreconcilable with a life void of Him. I also love that there are great arguments for His existence outside of my experience. And I remind myself that everything I discover was already discovered by someone smarter than me. They worked through it and there are answers. And if there is ever a case where Christians don’t know the answer to something, it does not mean there isn’t one. And while I now love working through such obstacles “inconvenient truths”, so that I can help others who want to believe and it actually strengthens my faith, at the end of the day faith is a choice as you put it. Beautifully put brother 🙏🏿❤️. When I first learned about some of the inconvenient truths, before even knowing that there were great defenses or Christian perspectives on these “issues” I went back to why I first believed. It was never about evidence, but faith. The first time I put my faith in Jesus, I didn’t have any evidence. I soon learned that there are people who worked through these tough cognitive theological questions. Now I learn for fun but it is not what anchors me. God bless.
I strongly relate to being able to understand, witness, and agree to the usefulness of religion. I think I am at that stage where I don't want the fact that I lack a community to be the only reason why I stay. I do still feel the need to apologise for not having faith because in my head that conversation is happening between my parents and I. They feel that they have failed as parents in raising me correctly and I feel that I cannot continue to call self-repression (that is repressing WHO l AM) love and respect. Apart from that, deconstruction is a interesting journey, it is lovely to hear you share your experience/s out of faith, thank you!
I’ll also add that if your objection is tied to religion, I have the same objection. However, I don’t have dissonance, because I don’t assent to a religion. I live my “Christian life” through a relationship with God . The Christian reality is the only world view that really makes since. Denying Jesus is not going to lead to truth, it will lead to confusion. One will discover ambiguity, and certainly not move toward truth… which is the most we can hope to do in this life. Move closer to truth.
okay
Hmm, I think even if Jesus is the only way to God - Truth isn't exclusive to different kinds of people - I feel that since Christ talked so much about Love, and how Love is so much greater than even other gifts or virtues, and yet many Christians don't show that same/similar kind of Love in the way they think/should (and it shows in the way they write/speak; if you were to for instance compare it to what Love is in the Bible --- that it cares more about the other person and doesn't seek its own benefit/good, and that that kind of Love, instead of just Loving when something benefits you, is so beautiful and much more valuable/better --- and yet many are really just doing so in a selfish way, tbh at that point idk if that counts as Love but yeah, even if they do so "unaware-ingly" they're still thinking in a way that is more concerned with themselves/their benefit or potential benefit, and are really caring about themselves, in a way, when they show their "Love".
I think that that shows that Others can still come to know Truth; even if they've never heard of Jesus, or even if they have heard of Jesus & believe in something else. My point if I worded it confusingly, is that compared to Buddhists or Agnostics or other kinds of people, they(those people/some people) might know and understand Love more, and live that out even better, than "Christians" or myself, and it just shows that just because you believe in Jesus - it doesn't make you anymore better/less - in the sense of knowing Truth or what not, and also living it out, e.g. if Love is Truth. Maybe it has to do with the fact that Truth isn't exclusive - only to believers of Christ/God/Whatever.
I'm Christian too, but I really think there's probably people of different faiths that are led to more Truth/Love/have a deeper or a more insightful angle of looking at it than me! (Or in a sense have a better/greater depth of understanding of it, & they're able to live it out and Love more/better, maybe in virtue of the fact that they have that understanding/knowledge about Love). And I'm glad the Christian philosophers I subscribe to actually write about the same things/think the same - because that just makes sense logically when I was thinking about it and I find it quite true!! (not that hard to imagine imo). But yeah :)
I think my point is the fact that you say if you deny Jesus, you will only be led to confusion. But yet many who "accept" Jesus are confused - if Love is Truth and yet they don't show Love, or understand that, when other faiths, monks of differing religions, just "get" it more; and hence are less confused - speaking on your terms/in reference to your wording. Sorry for the jumble of text btw, this is probably better. 🙏
@@sking388 I like how you put "accept" Jesus because just because you claim to accept something sometimes doesn't mean you really have. I think the point OG commenter is trying to make is if Jesus is truly the only way like the bible claims, then legit everything else does lead to confusion. Your talking about others from other faiths that show good fruit, I remember when I was an atheist I showed great fruit to be honest, but deep down I was legit a monster and very confused. Looking back I think God was guiding me during that time, but I didn't believe in that so I wasn't really searching, I was more so demanding empirical evidence and then one day I decided to embrace that monster because I just had enough with losing in life & I wanted to win. Then God spoke to me 4 years ago which saved my life, he said "If you do this I'm gone"
I do agree people of all walks can know truth (that's biblical, It's written on our hearts) but according to the bible their are beings against us and it honestly seems like these beings are running things in the world. So If there is legit truth found in Jesus Christ I think it would be wise to ground yourself there. Nothing wrong with continuing to search to be sure because some of us are skeptics, like myself, but when I read the word of God (the bible) it sings to my soul. When I think about talking to God, my mind goes straight to the bible & it clears my mind. My response when God spoke to me was "Idc if it takes me 30 years I'll try" & I've been searching and chasing God ever since.
Not here to counter you btw I understand your take, but both positions could be wrong. (mine & the one you gave) I just think Jesus is reliable based of the historical account of his death & resurrection, how lived and taught, and how he was apparently sinless. Being a Christian has hands down been the hardest thing I've ever tried to do, I think the standard that God sets goes against what the world preaches and I can see why so many can't find peace in it. My first year trying the Christian walk I told my girlfriend that "THIS IS INSANITY"
@Woolburrr how are you with the Spirit bro? Is it leading you into truth and helping you renew and conform your mind to Jesus by reading the Bible? I appreciated your comment btw
I went through the same thing a few years back… everyone experience is different but I think I might know a thing or tow about what you are going through. It took me a while to get I settled but it’s the ultimate freedom to explore, I find truth in so many different modalities.
Your lips are pink but look on the bright side your skin is glowing!!!! Always interesting to hear your content. Always refreshing to hear a piece of your heart. Big up yuhself Joseph 🇹🇹
This is so real lol but this is why I try to have child like faith towards Christianity.
Hey Bro! Been following you since the start and still with you now. I still follow Christ and I get how this world, this life, and the interactions of many through millennia can bring your heart and soul to doubt. I can see how contradictions that appear to have to no plausible explanation and how the clouds of doubt in the sky of our mind snuff out the hope of believing in a God that most of us don't physically see or audibly hear. Yet, a silver line, a resounding chord, an echo of a heartbeat remains in the theme of every conversation - why are we here, what does it mean, where do my wants derive, what is good, and am I good? Further we ask, if I am good then why does bad happen to me or to those who I love. We wrestle with not feeling we're enough and constantly comparing ourselves to others with futile efforts to grasp meaning from countless self-help noveltry-esque books and to access some light to get us closer to the idealized version of us that measure to .... well I don't think we even know. But through all of these things, my hope in the reversal of life's entropy remains - in Jesus Christ - for me. And maybe that's crazy to most - to decide to believe. As a doctor seeing the body and all of its sinews literally brought me to tears with all of its incredible organization at every level (macro and micro), an intelligence that many of my colleagues chalk up to the universe (atomic gas, nebula, expanding matter and antimatter) to decide on the intricacies of our ordered existence on an evolving cycle racing toward the end of time (if one believes that time should end). I could never bring myself to tell any other person that they never where truly a believer in Christ because even believers doubt, from time to time - some for years at a time. What I will say is that despite what any of us feels or not, I believe, Jesus continues to loves us and express it through a choice for us to love him back or not. And don't we all love a good romance and a painful drama. My choice to love wouldn't seem as sweet if there were not those who chose not too love Him. So, everyone plays a part in a cosmic wisdom that I can't explain but that I believe God constructs, tends to and leads. Finally, I know that I love you dearly. I love your heart and many days wished to be a good friend to you - especially on the music writing tip (cuz we got that in common haha). Anyways, sorry for the long message, but your content as usual provoked me to thought. This time I decided to share my few thoughts with you. Warmly - Your forever Bro, -G.
hey thanks for engaging and sharing your thoughts g! beautifully written. sounds like you’re on a beautiful journey. glad i could play some part in that bro.
You are truly a good person 🙏🏿💯
After watching your video, more of a draft that’s in my mind:
“Perception steals the opportunity for me to have a blank canvas.”
Meaning, even when I’m wanting to change how I feel/am/go about the faith I came up in, how far back would I have to go to start before my reality actually felt uncolored.”
I respect you a lot brother, I think this journey you’re on is beautiful and can’t wait to see your journey become even more meaningful to you.
And you brought up the point that some Christians pity you. I don't - I follow you on ig and I am joyful that you have found success in overcoming things that people, Christians, anyone really, could struggle with - depression, etc. That is so good! And I can't be happier for you :)) I feel like you have a better grasp at overcoming these issues than most people, so it would be great if you could share with us about that too! - Will be on the lookout for those videos!! Love you from the bottom of my heart my Brother. And if there really is a God, who is all-loving, it's okay - because I think He loves you too and way more than me. As to your beliefs, I don't really care too much about it in some sense as others might, maybe because I believe in Christian Universalism (following Patristics), and I really do think it's okay at the end of the day, just because we can't have it all right anyway, and circumstances matter so much and many things are outside of my/our control. If Christ was the closest picture to God we'll ever have, and he was praying for forgiveness to those who were killing him on the Cross because they don't know what they're doing - that already says a lot to me & for me, I'm chilling. :) Much Love Bro!!
P.s.: Chilling as in I don't care if people call me out for being a heretic or whatever XD I Think the act of praying for those who persecute you or do wrong because they don't know/a lack of knowledge - is pretty profound, Loving & insightful - that's all 🙏
oOoOoooOooooh....I am so glad I FINALLY have some free time coming up so I can enjoy this video without interruption.
I ❤ how I always learn something from Joseph and his content.
I look forward to learning something new in this video.
It just look like you drank a lot of red Kool aid 😂
😂 yeah
CHASE GOD WEBISODES were life changing and I loved watching your videos. I believe that was 100% a gift from God
41:22 was relatable and reminded me of James Baldwin “to be a negro in this country and to be relatively conscious is to be in a state of rage almost all of the time”
Love you bro we left the faith around the same time for the same exact reasons. I never thought I'd come back. And I never thought you would, either. But by my SAME judgments and reasoning (which are still sound) our Creators brought me back. It was so weird and awkward, and had nothing sentimental about it. But that's exactly what I needed. Every quesiton I had now makes sense. I can tell that you hate that God allows evil to take place in our world, it's probably your biggest heartbreak. But you're allowed to have that hurt and anger towards God. I still do! I'm still SO pissed that God doesn't get off of his throne to take these pedophiles out and protect the innocent. But there is a hell to pay for them, still. And I believe God hurts just as we do when these events happen. At least I hope so. And WE have regulated our laws to not take matters into our own hands when back then, they killed those bastards. We're living in a world that is far from God because we drew it up that way, and now we're screaming WHERE ARE YOU... when in fact, it's our governed body that has taking power into their own hands and are failing how God would have his people protect those from evil.
The truth is no one does know the heart and we all didn't choose God first. There are many times the heart leads us to complacency and just not wanting the Lord. That's the truth. But none of us can speak on someone else's walk because we don't know it intimately. I will pray for you brother and I hope others do as well. You're loved ❤
I really appreciate your Videos Joseph. Your questions are genuinely asked. I have gone thru deconstruction as well, but in the end I've still arrived to being a believer, similar to Lecrae. I say that to say ironically I wish I could arrive where you are in some ways cause it seems easier in someways, mainly with working thru my own religious trauma., I have many friends who have de-converted and I have envied how they get to let go. I'm with you just on the other side. I personally can't deny my relationship with God, I can't deny him showing up in my life time after time. So I'm in a weird place. I believe but I understand why so many come to the conclusion you have. Keep up the good work. Life is complicated it really is. I wish I could get into a cut and dry place like other religious friends of mine.
the whole "you were never..." doesn't work in reverse because anything outside christianity is considered "lost" so they don't ask because they don't doubt that the new christian was ever really lost but to walk away from the truth of christianity to choose to be lost in the world doesn't compute unless you were never really saved to begin with
that’s a convenient doctrine to have. but what’s baked into it is the absolute certainty that christianity is true, which of course, many christian’s hold on to. but let’s assumed christianity is absolutely true, why is it impossible for someone to believe something that is true and then be later convinced of a lie? of course your only real argument will be “because the bible said so” and that’s kind of the end of the conversation. okay. but there’s no practical or philosophical reason to believe that. what about the person who truly believed, backslid in unbelief and came back? is that not the story of the prodigal’s son? but yeah i agree. they do simply consider others “lost” which is convenient but still doesn’t really address the question.
@@flightsfeelings addressing the question requires a level of open mindedness they vehemently preach against 🙃
I am in the same place and see the beauty and usefulness in religion even though I may not agree with most of them nowadays. I see the comfort, strength, and guidance it can provide to most people and I am glad the author has found solace there. Personally, I can't turn a blind eye to the things I have learned about the foundations of Christianity and how far it has gotten from its roots. I do agree with you and the article that people need an ideology and/or mythology to hold on to and unify people. However, I feel like we need this now more than ever because our current and old ideologies are now clearly outdated. We see that they are no longer sustainable or doing the most good for society as a whole. I find it interesting that this is the reason the author chose Christianity as her new ideology considering that it falls into a lot of the same issues as the ideologies she claims she is against. Especially using one religion to fight off another religion. We are seeing the repercussions of that now and it often leads to bloodshed, one of the reasons she left religion in the first place. I do think people are looking for a new story because the American Dream and Christian Ideals aren't living up to their values and promises. I'm just not sure what that would look like moving forward.
I first followed you back when you were still Christian a few years back. I think your faith was part of what attracted me at a time when I was denying the start of my own deconstruction, it gave me hope for my own faith journey. Seeing this video is such a comfort, you have no idea. I feel like I'm not alone. I'm still mourning the end of my relationship with God. A part of my brain wants to turn off sense and keep believing, because believing in God was such a friking comfort. I'm realizing now that my life is truly my own and that's terrifying. I sometimes really want my faith back. You give me hope that I'm not alone. Thanks for speaking to the struggle
You can definitely have your faith back. Jesus Christ will have you back with open arms, Im sure you know the story of the prodigal son!
Thank you for sharing and evolving aloud 🙌🏾 Beautiful. As you live and share, you are adding to the intelligence of the collective consciousness, the source :) Which in-turn creates the most fantastic things. So exciting! I wish you well in your game of life!
This is something that I learned while deconstructing.. I was raised in a small christian group since birth, the kind of group that meet in homes, and the moment I moved into my own home, I allowed my repressed being/the bit somehow not programmed, to speak to me. Contrary to what Christians/religious people believe... deconstructing/leaving is very hard, it's not a party, it can be sad, very lonely, but a necessary call to self. And what many can't comprehend due to various reasons including their Human Designs- is that it is spiritual, emotional and very *logical* . It is complicated to hear, bc many people are in a faith and of that mindset, but I’ll try....
Religion can be seen as evil (as defined as harmful/unpleasant) for an individual because it’s the giving away of one’s inner authority.. and even worse, doing so without evidence (evidence outside of personal experiences or what one perceives to be signs of evidence). When one commits to a faith/religion, and adheres to the attitudes and behaviors of that group/system, they are no longer holding true agency over their life. Whether the system/religion is “good” or “bad”, “truth” or “lie”, etc…one is still sacrificing the “realest”, “truest” thing they have as a human being- theirselves.
So let’s go a little deeper here…in Christianity and for the sake of keeping it brief, one gives their heart & soul/life to god/Jesus, supposed to become a “new man in Christ”, and lean not to their own understanding. The bible becomes an infallible truth and to be read/followed daily. Many Christians believe that a holy ghost is a companion and actively leads a believer day by day. So you can see how an ideology & entities are now in the driver seat of a human being’s life. This affects one’s perspective of their existence, their interactions with others, their perspective of the world and things such as politics, health, finances, science, art, other belief systems, economics, and abstract things such as love or time, etc. Whether one feels or believes Christianity is truth or not, good or bad or neither or whatever. The issue remains that there was a taking from that person. In short, the taking was an internal power in exchange for an external one.
Okay, so.. some might think, well 1) it was my choice and 2) it was for my good. But the thing with matrix traps is that they are almost always a choice, and they seem to be "good". So what is so evil about this? Well, this is very complicated bc it takes a desire to know, a deconstruction to take place, and a leveling of frequencies to innerstand. What I can say, is that one must fully innerstand what a human being is, what one can do, and just how powerful a human being is. The ultimate power of a human being is the power to create. Once one innerstand what that really means and how that works, one will discover just how evil (defined as harmful/unpleasant) it is to give one’s self to an external source of “power”. Or exchange one’s power for another.
I remember there was a Christian hymn that goes a bit like “…without him (speaking of god/Jesus) I am nothing.” Yikesss. It goes beyond just being a follower/follower of rules, goes beyond the negative impacts of religion such as rigid thinking, instilling fear, prejudice, physically harming others,etc., it goes beyond all the harmful things stated stemming from religion throughout history. Most people do not innerstand what they are, and so they believe/feel less than and fall for traps. Religion isn’t the only trap. On planes outside of what you see with your eyes, people sacrifice themselves and their power to create all the time. And to do so is to act against one’s self, to betray one’s very existence, to make an enemy out of one’s self, to reject self. I mean it doesn’t get more evil (as defined as harmful/unpleasant) than that. Of course… not all will get this. Those who get it, get it and those who don’t-stick to their scripts under the guise of choice (which is not a full representation of the power people have) until they do get it or just never do. If one is happy living their religious life, well..everything is permissible, but not everything is beneficial or as I like to add- optimal.
I should also add that everything one seeks in a religion or god (external source) is within. Religion is evil on a personal level bc it’s tricky. It tricks one into believing-which is the giving of one’s energy+ power of creation (bc believing is creating) to the religion (matrix trap). Which 1) empowers the trap & 2) keeps one from creating from one’s own will for one’s own will. Some religious people might feel this a good thing, considering others who do, say, heinous things… but if everyone was operating from a place of their own power/creation… this (heinous/negative things,etc.) would be something people wouldn’t have to worry about. Take a moment to consider what that really means.....
Religion is evil because it makes you sign an energy contract on your ignorance of your power, but everything it offers, all its positives, can be created *without* the exchange. This contract theme can be seen everywhere in this world. Whether it be in entertainment, children’s fairytales, life experiences, etc.
I commend Joseph for not only sharing but allowing for comments. There’s a lot of love here. Where there is not some comments reflect the exact examples Joseph presented- being dismissive to what was expressed thoroughly. The tendency for humans to be strange never ends.
2 things.
1 What you said at 31:32 about the most common phrase Christians says when ppl leave the faith is that you were never really a believer ….is so spot on!!! I never realized that the opposite is never asked.
2. The thing about conservatives hijacking the word Woke! 💯 ugh it’s so true 😒
Idk if Naked Pastor coined this phrase but he said something like “my home of origin is Christianity ..but I have other cottages” is something I like.
I think the phrase Christians use "you were never really a believer" is possible and that's why they use it. Could they be wrong of course, I remember I talked to an atheist once and he legit told me I was never really an atheist at one point. Then he gave reason to why that might be the case and his reasoning was pretty good but it didn't apply to me. I've been "Christian" for 4 years now. I can promise you for the first 3 years If someone said your not really Christian to me they might have been right. Sometimes whether your Christian Atheist or whatever its possible your just going through the motions. I tell my girlfriend all the time who claims to be Christian that she's not Christian and that she more so wants to be. Belief is harder than people actually think, sometimes you want to believe for whatever reason you may have but you don't actually believe in your heart.
Hopefully that clears somethings up, I'm not the best at communication but I try
@Woolburrr your process maybe difficult on your end but the product is quality. Well put bro
@@dominicsey3032 thanks its been so tough. I think my atheist background has helped me to be honest. Going from arrogant to be legit humbled. I don't step without God
@Woolburrr that's a good way to be, but don't confuse humility with self-depreciation, humility is honest about the gifts God has given you bro
@@dominicsey3032 You have great awareness. I think that is actually one of my problems. I do make myself small and sometimes fear takes over and I sit back. It's like I know what to do but then I don't know what to do. I don't want to be wrong & I feel like like sometimes I'm in a position that is to burdensome for me.
Sometimes it makes me angry with God because I feel like I can't do this stuff "alone" I wish that I could literally hear him. I'm still patient and I'm still serving but sometimes it cripples my spirt. I don't have to many people to talk to about this. I started a home church because I know I need to go to church, but I'm leading the church! I feel like who am I to do this!
Joe, I’m watching as a Christian who is very much assured of my faith, but I’m open to any perspective that furthers my understanding of the reality that we live in, even perspectives that challenge Christianity. I don’t consider myself religious, in the since that I’m part of a God/Deity based practice that benefits me in some way. I feel that my conversion was a genuine entrance into a relationship with God through a spiritual rebirth and joining to the finished work of Christ. I followed you years ago, and I was inspired by your messages, but I am sad to see you struggling with your faith. If you belong to God you can leave Him, but he’ll never leave you, because you are his. Question: wondering what is the basis of your cognitive dissonance? I find that at its core, the Bible/Christianity makes the most since of the world. I am sad to hear you speak without confidence, hope, or boldness. If you don’t respond, I understand. If nothing else I hope that this encourages you to keep asking questions and consider all possibilities, including the dissonance that understandably troubled you while following Christ.
this answer is filled with the kind of empathy that we need more of in this world. thank you for sharing Christ’s love with everyone 💗
i don’t have any current cognitive dissonance about christianity/the bible currently. i’m also not struggling with faith. that struggle is over lol. i am confident in exit from christianity. i can boldly and certainly say that life is ambiguous.
Yep, I’ve come to the same conclusion in the past. The truth is that the world seems ambiguous because there is a spiritual paradox governing our world. 1. Christ has conquered sin and death, and that reality is realized with his kingdom, although not yet perfected 2. God allows Satan, evil, and sin to operate in this world until the “appointed time”. That is a hard reality, and manifests as a world that appears “ambiguous”. However, the reason for this paradox is made clear in scripture, “but do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years is like one day. The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance” -2 Peter 3: 8-9 For the sake of his children, he will endure this world which will ultimately reject his grace. Just as he raised up and endured Pharaoh, he will endure this world for the ultimate goal of presenting His glory to all who will worship Him forever. Grace and Peace, brother.
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God’s Word is not confusing (it is in fact repetitively consistent). The church is where you’re finding confusion. #ReadTheBibleToProveYourself
i never said it was confusing. i said i don’t believe it to be true. #listencarefullytoprovethyself
@@flightsfeelings you literally used the word “confusing”. Also, you primarily talked about “Religion” and did not specifically elaborate on what you did not believe about the Bible, why, and with what proof. I indeed was listening carefully. It appears you were alluding to your experience with churches and their indoctrinations. Only 20% have actually read the Bible. So by default, most people are going off word off mouth vs sitting down and reading for themselves (including the parts removed by the churches). That was the point of my comment.
There’s a d@mning amount of historical, archeological, astronomical, and other scientific evidence that corroborate the accounts in the Bible. It literally lays out the math for an accurate calendar system - something the Europeans didn’t figure out until the 16th century (~5k years later) and still haven’t got it down to precision. What you choose to believe is always your choice. I don’t have the right to judge.
@@flightsfeelings Comment was broad & wasn’t targeted to you, but we can address…
you primarily talked about “Religion” and church indoctrination; did not provide specifics on what you didn’t believe about the Bible, why, or proof to support that disbelief. Only ~20% have read the ENTIRE Bible. % gets smaller when one considers those that have read the books excluded by the churches. Some of your commentary suggest you haven’t read (or comprehended) the entirety of the KJV, NIV, ESV, etc versions.
@@Jules-fr5gm Some of your commentary suggest you haven’t read (or comprehended) the entirety of the KJV, NIV, ESV, etc versions." 1. and that's where you're wrong. i know you'd wish for that to be the case but it isn't. i have read the entire bible. i literally only attended churches that exposited through an entire books of the bible week by week for years. 2. no i dont comprehend the entirety of the bible (and i don't desire to). are you suggesting that you do comprehend all of it? i dont see how yall make comments like this and still feel like you're the humble one in this scenario lol also, f*** the kjv translation. lol it's a terrible translation lol. ESV cool. CSB cool. NIV decent too. NASB. whatever.
Im very glad i found you working in this space bro
I read Ms. Hirsi’s book, “Nomad” a couple of years ago, when I was going through my own journey of unpacking my faith; investigating what I had believed for more than 20 years…
I grew up as a Christian, (I am Kenyan), and yet much of what Ms. Hirsi was explaining in her book made so much sense to me, & helped me to unpack my dilemmas too.
She explains in her book, among many other things, the dilemmas of religion in Africa, (and the dilemmas of coming from a tribal [communal] culture…the desire to individuate), how even though you may succeed in leaving physically, it is a real challenge to leave emotionally, and choose a different way of seeing, thinking and existing…a change in perspective…and what is lost when you make that choice.
All of it was so relatable to me, as much as my context was Christian.
Ms. Hirsi however, sometimes mentioned in passing (in that book), that the dilemmas of a Christian woman in Africa were lighter than those of a Muslim one…I often disagreed with that line of thinking;
There was a lot of advocacy around the African women's issues…complexities that are a direct aftermath of Islam, and I thought that much of what she talked about that she attributed to Islam, were very real issues on this other side too, for the Christian woman.
So, when I heard that after so many years she joined the Christian faith, I was amused & curious too.
I read the article too, and thought that the arguments that she made so many years ago against Islam, were no different from those that could be made against Christianity in Africa too; the context of her book, “Nomad” is Somalia, Ethiopia & Kenya;
The arguments that she made for Christianity when she chose to join the faith last year, are the same arguments that could have been made for Islam.
Issues of faith can be quite complex, and quite confusing.
We’re often searching & doubting & investigating…that is the human reality, and it is okay.
wow! maybe i should check her book out. like i said im late to the party so i didn’t realize how influential she was. i’m curious about her journey as probably some folks are about mine lol cause from the outside looking in, it dont add up. i’d really like to hear her reasoning for the truth claims of christianity. not to try to dismiss her but genuinely curious how a raised muslim turned prominent atheist gets around to jesus rising from the grave.
You were one of the first people I enconter when I began exploring my faith in God. Watching your journey, I sincerely hope you find the truth you're searching for. Just because something is useful doesn't mean it's true, but rather it needs to be true and useful for the individual. Really glad that you are sharing your experience!
i’m not searching for any singular “truth.” there’s no preconceived conclusion i’m looking for. i’m simply living life and receiving what comes.
i appreciate the well wishes and thank you for giving a moment to listen fr!
Going down the rabbit hole now and for a PK it’s terrifying and yet oddly satisfying… hard to explain….
💙 Thanks for the video Joe, I'm Christian but honestly I know I could be wrong - I'd probably take the same stance as Paul (if Christ isn't risen, our faith is in vain - cuz our faith is literally based on Christ XD; OT points to Christ, in NT we find Christ is the most accurate picture of God/closest we'll ever get - if indeed Christ's words and actions are true) - so I really appreciate your videos. So Honestly, if Christ isn't true - I have no qualms giving up on what I believe in. And at the end of the day, I think we're all just humans grasping at truth, imo - I really do believe all "truth" is approximate as it pertains to us, or truth comes in extents, so yeah honestly even if Christianity is true - people could be wrong about many things, and i doubt a single person can get it "all right", and even then, it would still be lacking in some sense, and it shouldn't surprise us because at the end of the day we're just fallible beings - which is more reason why we should be graceful and compassionate to one another - irrespective of our beliefs (Any of us could be wrong, no one has it all right, some more than others, and even then others may have got right what they haven't). I admit I do doubt sometimes, and I try to keep myself accountable - but yeah, I really do appreciate your videos because they help me a lot! And I appreciate the honesty and insightful thoughts :))
Joe,
we have very different stories with you coming from the "born and raised in the faith" kind of side while I (as the only "believer" in my family) found some sense of meaning and refuge in the faith while my family was completely falling apart due to my parents not taking responsibility for their own stories, hence giving us generational trauma which traumatized and deeply estranged us.
My faith lasted half of my life... and I've been to the evangelical extremes which I am now ashamed of because I see how lacking that was. With post-traumatic sickness turning my life upside down, my faith began shaking and it's been one of the most painful things to realize it slipping through my hands. Faith equaled family to me, though I always lacked a sense of true belonging. Loosing or letting go of that is hard!!!
I keep coming back to your art, your thoughts, your voice that I relate to so much even though my questioning is different from yours. I lost the emotional connection to God; and from that all the others.
Funnily, I questioned the validity of my own faith experiences spread over a decade. At the moment I find peace calling what I lived through survival mode. I had to cling onto something in order to survive, even if it would be someone I now find more imaginary or very disinterested, distant, uninvolved. I also find some peace in my own taking of responsibility for my life. I have let go and cut our all harmful relationships and only kept the equally wholesome, respectful, supportive. I've been going to trauma therapy to connect with my own emotions and process my life experiences. I've been fighting for my legal rights for welfare, did a police report against my mother who was the main perpetrator against my siblings and me. I've founded my own small business to test my own boundaries for work and express myself through my own art.
In a lot of ways you have been a role model. How honest you are with yourself and other people no matter how painful it is to feel reality. The nuance you communicate: Life really is VERY complex & easy answers won't hold up. How you make safe spaces, again for yourself first and then for others. In a sense, that has become my life mission. I want people to be able to be their whole selves around me.
Thank you for being so vulnerable publicly. It speaks to people like me who live thousands of kilometers away. Words can't describe how grateful I am for your output, even art that you have hidden again like your spoken word about depression. I guess the essence for me has always been that you help me be more present and more aware. So, once again, thank you for that!
I appreciate your honesty on this topic.
crazy I don't know if I remember you making Christian videos but ever since I left the church I've seen a few people have this type of outlook. I've said this before I miss the way I've felt when I was Christian it was ana amazing experience. but then it became fake for me. I changed my way of thinking and my line of logic completely changed. I CAN NEVER BELEIVE IN GOD AGAIN. and its truly feels like grief. But i turn my life around by finding the power within myself. its hard but everyone is capable of doing anything they want to do. you just have to have faith.... faith in laterally anything.. I found faith in myself.
As always, it is really interesting hearing your thoughts and side of things, thanks for the honesty. Anyway, for lips I recommend using the lip scrub from "Lush", apply a lil on lips and gently press and massage in a rotating way for like 20-30 sec on each lip, once a week. Apply your daily lipbalm right after and make sure that the lips are free from any sugar residues of the scrub as it may damage the skin. DO NOT overdo it, once a week is enough. I've been doing it for years and it's been fine. I recommend letting your lips be for now and just treating them with normal lip balm til you feel they have "healed", one I can recommend is Labello Med Repair, thats the only lip balm I acknowledge as such lol, but if you got one that you the biggest fan of, use that instead, as we all have different and unique skin types, so what may work for me may not work for you and vice versa. I wish this comment was sponsored but eh, tryna help a brotha out
I love your take on this I had to watch it a couple times so I could really process everything you said and really understand your heart. As a Christian I appreciate you even letting us in on your journey it’s not easy sharing you closest thoughts with the world. Whether you choose Jesus or whatever I’m still a huge fan and its all love and blessing to you on your journey. I can’t wait to hear more and if another Christian never told you, I know your journey was genuine bump what everybody else saying lol ❤
I'm Haitian, and there's a song we sing at church that says "M pa vle gen tan, pou m tande yon lot vwa, ke ou, Yaweh," which means, I don't want to have time to hear any other voice besides yours, Yahweh. I think when we take the time to shut everyone else out and only listen to God and His voice, everything slowly starts to make sense. Praying for you and everyone else who is on this journey.
yes, i have this same experience as well. i talk about in my video “god in the oatmeal”. when we slow down and take time to shut everyone else out, everything slowly does start to make sense. my definition of “god and his voice” just doesn’t require as much specific doctrine or dogmatics as yours includes.
Deff will check out the video you mentioned! @@flightsfeelings
😢 I just grieve. But it’s good to see you are well. Keep on keeping on.
i grieve for the religious as well. for all humanity. the human experience is hard on everyone but much to rejoice in as well.
i want touch on the Ayaan Hirsi Ali subtopic
i find it funny that Christians are celebrating and parading Ayaan's conversion to Christianity. i am familiar with Ayaan (as i have seen a couple of her debate videos, majority of them being debates against Islam) and i never really was convinced with her arguments (as i am an ex Christian, now Muslim).
so color me surprised when i heard she converted to Christianity, and when i read her article "Why I Am Now a Christian," i was left more confused after reading her article. i barely saw any claims for why the Bible is true or any arguments for the existence of God, her reasons seemed to be more political than theological. a political tool used to fight Communism, Islamism, and woke ideologies.
i can't remember who said this but it will always stick with me. it seemed like she didn't convert to Christianity but converted Christianity into her world view (meaning she fell in love of her idea of what Christianity is rather than what Christianity really is and what it stands for).
exactly. well said.
This content is extremely valuable, especially for someone like myself.
I think other faiths and beliefs don’t get the same push back of “they never were” because other beliefs tend to be very actions based vs faith based. Rely heavy on ritual and doing.
christian’s are just as ritualistic. they just do this “relationship vs religion” jargon to make it seem like it’s different. i don’t get why this P.R. move is so popular. in any case, even if we assumed other faiths are more “ritualistic” it’s still acting in faith that these rituals do something. it’s still faith based.
To me, one of the hardest things about Christianity, is that being a part of the community relies on belief. I’ve had a few conversations with my close friends who are Christians and they all seem to say that belief is a choice. I disagree with them, and do not think that one has the power over what they believe and don’t believe(for the most part). All this to say that since Christianity is “belief” based, it isn’t really up to the individual whether or not they can be a part of the church.
On another note please consider watching the Pixar movie “Soul” if you haven’t already haha.. it’s inspired by black culture, music is a huge theme, mainly about existentialism, and the main characters name is Joe.
I really appreciated this video. Love the thoughtfulness and insight. Although I’m still a believer (still plugged into the matrix haha) I felt the passion and heard a lot of truth in this.
I am so happy that you have found peace in your heart. 😊 Don't even get me started on the misuse of woke. My biggest issue is they can't even define it for real. Just like CRT😂. I read Infidel by Ayaan Hirsi Ali and it was intriguing. Now...*Kanye Shrug*
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My Good Brother! Search learn and explore. Get your own understanding in what it is that you need. Do what you need to do and may it bring you peace. Blessings and Love to you!
It broke my heart when you left but as a fan and a believer I accepted your choice, because at the end of the day free will is an expression of love. I've learned to ask God the hard questions . It's not always rainbows and sunshine you know that better than I do. I'm a seventh day adventist and that's one tough thing to be in a world where you think everyone knows what you know. You realize it's not that way our journeys are different and you have your own path to walk as do I. You can change your mind any time in life to different things and it's your choice. No matter what you are I still love you. No matter what you choose as long as you are content with the decision you make when all has been said and done. It's a great controversy for a reason. The Truth is a hard pill to swallow it's so much more than our existence.
the truth is hard pill to swallow, yes. continuously realizing christianity was historic fiction was a hard pill to swallow for me.
@@flightsfeelingsInteresting 🤔 If I hadn't witnessed it myself to be true I'd agree 💯. It's hard to deny something you've tested for yourself..not some denomination or preacher or lay person. By the way side note; on the shores reminds me of "Ocean" it might not be connected but I absolutely love that track.
well i’d find it pretty difficult to “experience” history truth/fiction but present experiences vary for sure! it’s beautiful you’ve found something truthful and meaningful for you. i have also found and continuing to find that for myself as well. 🫶🏽🤲🏾
@@flightsfeelings Exactly what I said in my first comment as long as you are content with what you have found or are finding when all is said and done that's all that matters. Still have mad love regardless.
Amazing reflection Joe. I see the desire in your heart to keep on living this life despite having certainty in an ideology. That shit is scary and can feel so lonely, but it’s real.
I heavily agree with your statement about how some people may just be more religious than others. Just like there may be people who are more in alignment with living a logical mindset as opposed to one based off of feelings. And at the same time I think some people are able to flow in and out of these camps (maybe even form some type of unity between the 2? I’m not sure). I think that’s where the word “spiritual” can potentially come into play??
I came to a point where I had to acknowledge that I just fucking missed being in a church despite the many traumatic experiences I endured while there. I missed how I was able to be around a group of people who in some shape or form wanted to be involved with community serving (that felt life fulfilling; and useful as you phrase it)
I currently attend a progressive church that is lgbt+ affirming and asserts a bunch of other left ideology/theology. Yet even with this church, I can still see room for improvement. Many times I go in there I tell myself, “man I don’t really believe all this, yet there’s some message of love and unity that I respect”
Idk if love can be labeled as useful or truthful, perhaps more useful right? But being able to be surrounded with people who come from various backgrounds than mine and who gather in order to try and implement more healthy relationships and live out the concept of love is enough to get me out of my bed and give me the desire to live.
I’ve come to accept that being religious just helps for the most part (& sometimes I’m annoyed that I still consider myself “religious”). Yet at the same time, my desire to have the truth is still there. Yet idk if that really is attainable in this world just like idk if the concept of god is ever attainable. I just had to ask myself “what gets me going? Makes me happy? Despite it being true?” That question obviously asserts that i’m dismissing the idea of truth, but damn man I just want to live a life that I find at least a little fulfilling, ya feel me? I don’t want to live in these camps where I just fight my “truth” against others. I just want to Inter-be with the people around me.
I like that you’re attempting to form a community that isn’t necessarily linked to a Christian tradition. It’s not easy, yet I too hope that you can find that community you long for (or heck maybe even create? Or have created already through this channel?)
Thank you for your words fam, sending you love and peace 🫂
i remember you had a song called “make me believe” feel like it correlates with 6:30
You mentioned certain intellectual arguments that have convinced your mind that Christianity cannot be true. Please Describe these intellectual ideas that prove christianity cannot be true in a clear manner so we can be enlightened. Get to the meat of the matter.
though i have and will mention things don’t add up for me, that’s not really the point of the matter. this channel is not for trying to convince people christianity isn’t true. that was never my goal. this channel is more existential in approach. a million other channels will gladly give debating points about arguments for and against christianity.
@@flightsfeelings alright
Thank you for your honesty.
Joe, I totally track with you. Have you considered looking into more progressive circles of Christianity or explored other rooms rather than the basement of fundamental christianity? It’s actually helped me with my faith and feels more accepting for me
yes. i became more and more progressive on my way out of christianity as an attempt to hold on to faith.
@@flightsfeelingswhat was the issue with progressive Christianity for you if you don’t mind me asking? I consider myself a progressive Christian now. I like to drink and smoke on occasion, I even cuss a little 😁. I didn’t like who I was becoming in institutionalize religion. I’m a Christian because I still accept Jesus and his teachings. I’m not too sure about the rest of the Bible.
I’m confused When you say you “wish” you could be a christian, I’m wondering why you don’t research other religions or maybe another form of Christianity that better suits you. There’s many other rooms. But if you choose not to that’s totally cool too bro, God bless !
God is a balanced God.. rprogressive Christianity and conservative Christianity will lead you further away from God...
@sarab1625 well you're all on a spectrum of what is considered progressive vs conservative. no real way of escaping that. if you believe the bible is the inerrant word of god, a literal adam and eve, marriage between one woman and one man, original sin, hell, the need for a divine savior, the divinity of jesus, his sinlessness, died on the cross, he literally rose from the grave and he is coming back, etc... then you're more or less a conservative christian. if you don't believe those things... you're more or less progressive. if you believe some of those things and not others.. then you hold some progressive christian views and some conservative view.
@@simplysarab1625 like to separate my religious beliefs from my moral ones. Believing those things may be cool but it doesn’t make anyone a better person. Doctrine is man made. I see progressive Christianity as you believe what you want as far as doctrine as long as you try to love God and love people. That is really the extent of my doctrinal beliefs. It gave me a way to hold on to the mustard seed of faith I had, while being agnostic about the evangelical doctrine that’s man made. I don’t see how that would drive someone away from God tho?
41:15
This was a good talk and your last point summed it up well!
I usually don’t mess with the phrase blind faith since it’s a kind of cheesy Christianese for trusting God by casting any thoughts, doubts, or struggles aside. I’ve always taken pride in the positive things that draw me to believe and not just this “trust out of duty” (if I can make a distinction between faith/trust and belief)
But when much wisdom opens our eyes to the nuances of the world and the darker and less sure parts of our belief systems, that’s where a choice can be made. The options end up being a sort of selective, intentional blindness so as to hold on to faith, or to make peace in the sorrow that massing knowledge brings. In some sense it really is hard to escape pity either way with that choice, even before considering the other ways pity finds seeps in!
I haven’t fully come to that fork in the road yet but even as a believer now I have to reconcile some things in that tension between doubt and belief, experience of the divine and lack of experience, etc. And it’s in moments like that where the idea of faith or trust is so much more fitting than belief to what Christianity asks of us. I don’t mean to say it’s any more admirable, but so far I’ve made more peace with “blind faith” after thoughtful consideration, but could never have it prior.
May we all find measures of peace in good time!
Watching this and all I can hear is "let's cut to the chase" 😂
When you finally go down the rabbit hole and see that the math ain't mathing, folks will look at you like you're crazy
and they continually try to make me feel like i’m crazy on my own channel 😂
Truthfulness is not the same thing as usefulness
I highly recommend checking out the channel harmonic atheist. Lots of great and low key interviews with other people who also deconstructed explaining how they came to that point and their overall experience with deconversion and Christianity, which you may relate to. I like this page, because it helped me to know that I am certainly not alone and "crazy" for leaving the faith. Ps: Perhaps you could also even do an interview with the host (Tim) haha.
Bye
Getting an ad about church membership before this video was just too much for me man 😂
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@@flightsfeelingsi may have commented this before, but I really think you would love exploring the Spiral Dynamics model. It’s single-handedly helped me make sense of so much about our development as humans/cultures/societies.
Would love to hear your thoughts on the book The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel
vaguely remember it. one of the earlier apologetics books i’ve processed. i can’t remember what year it was as. remember it being like a “hey i’m just a journalist looking for the truth”. a more broadly accessible book. his arguments are not very different than your typical classical/evidential approach to apologetics that you can find many places now online. maybe he’s to thank for that 🤷🏽♂️
I love the part when you spoke about usefulness vs truthfulness. I somewhat always thought about it those terms as well. Though I may not believe in it personally I'm glad it does exists because without the world would be insanely chaotic if there were no genuine fear to where people were destined in an afterlife. That fear and not a heart that simply wants to be kind in this life is what I believe keeps most people on the straight and narrow... barely.
Hey Joseph, I don't know you personally or how your relationship with God was or what was the reason you actually deconverted (although I would like to know that) but I do want to ask brother, what and who was God to you? Was he an experience you wanted to feel? What was he to you and what would it take in an ideal world for you to believe that there was a God or that Christ came to die dor your sins and bodily rose? Pardon me for asking brother but I'm asking out of genuine curiosity to understand why or why not God and where you're coming from
i’ve spoke at length about this in other videos on this channel.
@@flightsfeelings Fair enough
Hey, um…..I don’t know if you will ever see this comment in which I hope you do!! I honestly am sorry that you experienced what you did when you told other Christians that you were leaving the faith. What they said should have not been said because it only draws you away from God and His Love. I even apologize for the terrible experiences that you had with the church ESPECIALLY from men😢. I actually think that you can believe and that eventually you will again in Jesus name. If you’re open to it. I will be praying for you because whether you believe it or not, I know how you feel when it comes to disbelief and it’s not easy to bounce back from. Nevertheless, regardless to whether you come back or not; TRUE BELIEVERS IN CHRIST still love you. I may not know you but I love you sooo much and so does God.❤️❤️ love your singing voice btw, it’s very soothing!!!
Sup, Joe. This is good. 32:27 this part is funny and true
Also one interesting point you brought up was something I was thinking about last night, but I won't bore you with the details - it's the point you made that just because something is useful, it doesn't make it true. Imo - I think what is most useful, has the most truth.
Something I thought about last night was - if someone told me I was a _ in my past life, and I really believed in it and from that belief I made it into a reality, after working on that thought in my mind for some time, and I finally reached my goal of becoming a _ - I think even if it is a lie, there is still truth to it, and it is from that truth that usefulness is found.
More specifically, perhaps it is the fact that I could really be a _, but one might object and say nah you weren't a builder before, or whatever _ is, maybe then, at time "t" I am a _, and that holds true throughout (you could add more specifications if necessary in order for that to hold true throughout), because I believe truth in its fundamental essence doesn't change, or perhaps just the thought that it is "true"/the possibility is true, and if it is possible then the truth has to exist prior for it to be possible to begin with imo.
But I think in some way, usefulness cannot be separated from truth, and in my thought experiments, what is the most useful has to hold the most truth. Maybe it could be that the principles Christ preached about were pretty true, even if he wasn't the messiah - and so Christian principles are still useful because its principles are mostly true/hold truth! But I don't believe that as of now as I still have faith in Jesus.
Just my two cents though!! Would love to hear your thoughts on this as it's an interesting point that you brought up :)
looking back now, what comes to mind if you try to recall moments when you were praying at night before sleep, or worshipping? I find myself in those moments, and genuinely feel a presence. thats me, but for you, what do you now perceive that as- if you ever felt that way? Idk if you have seen the Hubberman Lab, and how he mentions prayer provides peace. Thats distinct ofc, did you feel any sense of peace in prayer? thanks for reading joseph, much lov bro
i still get those experiences today. when i pray. when i read. when i meditate or write songs. a peace that is beyond my understanding
Did he take down all his previous videos. I had one saved called “Depression is” or something of that nature and I can’t find it anymore
Have you ever read the book The Pilgrims Progress ( A modern -Day Version ) of John Bunyan's Pilgrim's Progress? If you haven't I think you should give it a read
On fire, amazing ! 🔥I really appreciate and value how you express your ideas, being vulnerable, exploration, as well as putting your self out there. It is clear you understand the value in expanding self awareness. Separating the dogma of colonialism and religion from the connection to a personal higher power is no easy task! Jesus did not write the bible, and was not a caucasian man with long blond hair and blue eyes. I ad met you are a better man than I am, I do not wish I could believe what people believe, blind faith feels like a trauma response! If you deny "religion" has multiple sides, you benefit from the hierarchy. My strategy when I have the energy, if someone's believes are so secure, it should stand up to a little scrutiny! My experience with highly religious individuals has been extra! Superficiality, regurgitating, and validation seeking absent security. I am astonished "christianity" survives under the weight of its generational baggage. Example woke = thinly veiled ism... soon the wealthy caucasian christian conservatives will hijack something else, replaying victim appropriation to deny the collective irrational fears to distract from the harms of their behavior. Please remember you don't need approval from anyone, any "thing", entity, hierarchy, or system real or perceived. I will close with... Shallow brooks are noisy; deep waters are smooth.
Hey Jospeh, if you like to read philosophy, i'd highly recommend reading Maurice Blondel's "L'action" by Notre Dame Press.
not interested in christian philosophy or apologetics.
How do you find purpose in life? What is the point of your days on earth if the basis of your existence was caused by an uncauser? Who or what do you live for and how do you feel knowing that your "what" or "who" has an expiration date? Genuinely curious - God Bless
my last video on this channel is titled “finding peace in a life without meaning”.
Joe, how do you comfort yourself?
reading. basketball. working out. making music. family. friends. coffee. educational videos on youtube. walking. yoga. stuff like that.
thanks man. Yoga is amazing haha. It’s been a struggle for me lately, having “God in my front pocket” was the way I used to find comfort in hard times. I’ve been trying to find alternative ways to comfort myself. I’m also doing my best to accept that I am gonna feel overwhelmed and vulnerable at times until I adjust.
wait, is the video of masculinity post christianity up? that would be interesting.
What aspects did you have to overlook or rationalize to adhere to Christianity in the past, and what contradictions or inconsistencies did you find difficult to reconcile? Furthermore, what specific factors led you to no longer identify as a Christian? You've mentioned finding Christianity useful, but not necessarily true, whereas my faith is grounded in its truthfulness rather than utility. My commitment to Christianity stems from my conviction in its truth. Thus, I'm genuinely interested in understanding the reasons, experiences, or insights that have led you to confidently reject Christianity as true for yourself.
i’ve spoken more about here and there in other videos on this channel. probably not very efficient or productive to hash out in comment sections. but also general, my concern or interest on this channel really isnt to try to convince others to leave christianity or even to convince christian’s that i thought deeply enough about my decision.
@@flightsfeelings Thank you, I will check your videos out. I totally understand your intention is not to convince others to leave Christianity. I also was not asking you so you can convince me you have thought deeply about your decision; rather, I'm genuinely interested in understanding your thought process and what led you to your decision. I find it intriguing that you've expressed a desire to believe, or you wished that you believe, how in the past you have observed others, even those who are highly intelligent and educated, seemingly needing to ignore or suppress certain aspects to maintain their faith. Conversely, you've felt unable to do the same, prompting your exploration into alternative perspectives. I'm curious about this because I share a similar commitment to not dismissing truth simply for the sake of maintaining my beliefs. I did not ask to debate you or argue you down or even convince you of anything.
i don’t think you came off argumentative at all. i really can only go off the now hundreds of interactions online i have had with christian’s with similar questions. unfortunately they tend to have the approach that’s not based purely on curiosity but wanting answers that may make them feel more assured in their own footing. just been my experience over the past few years.
@@flightsfeelings I see. I'm sorry to hear about your experiences with other curious Christians. Just to clarify, I'm not seeking answers to reinforce my own beliefs. I'm intrigued by your journey because you were deeply engaged in Christian study yet reached a different conclusion. I am Christian and I am saying it's the truth and you were Christan and saying it's not the truth, I wonder what the difference in understanding is. I'm genuinely curious about the reasons behind your change of perspective. I've noticed you haven't delved into the specifics of the intellectual challenges you faced with Christianity in your videos, but more so just kind of telling a very general answer, which is understandable. However, I'd be interested in hearing your side of the story and understanding the specific reasons that led you to reject Christianity. I'm open to having a conversation privately if you're willing to share, and by conversation I pretty much just mean hearing your story and your reasons, nothing to really do with me.
What are your thoughts in regards to people who identify as lgbtq who are trying to be Christian?
interesting. may do a video on it.
It’s something that has always tugged on me.. I know what the Bible says in regards to sexual immorality.. but I’ve just been really torn in life man, your videos are interesting to watch though.
Joe, I’m curious, if Christianity is useful, does that mean that an atheist/or someone who doesn’t believe in the Christian faith could use the Bible as guide or blueprint to things like being a man, marriage, parenthood, valuing life, etc? And if so, where does the usefulness end?
For example, Ephesians 6:1-4
“Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. ‘Honor your father and mother’ (this is the first commandment with a promise), ‘that it may go well with you and that you may live long in the land.’ Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord.”
This particular section tells us to raise our children in the discipline and instructions of the Lord and obey our parents in the Lord. As someone who doesn’t believe in the Lord, how do we carry out the usefulness of these statements in our everyday life as nonbelievers? Or are there only portions of the Bible that can be deemed useful, and others can - for lack of better phrasing - be thrown out?
This is a genuine question, not a gotcha moment.
yeah basically. there’s a lot of great inspiring and insightful narratives and timeless wisdom in the bible. and a lot of regressive, contradicting, historically inaccurate, genocidal, and culturally nearsighted info in there too. a lot of it didn’t age well lol but some of it’s pretty good.
i hope society goes on believing in some sense. i see the ugly AND the beautiful of religion. that is to say, humanity can be ugly and beautiful. society is richer because of religion. i have a video on the channel where i talk at length about my lament of the loss/homogenization of black american christian culture. it has brought so much beauty to this world and it is slowly dying.
Just curious, and I'm asking because I haven't watched all of your videos, what would be your response if Christianity is proven true when Jesus returns? I dont want to say 'if' because i believe that. He will return...
But since this is hypothetical for you, what would be your response if Christianity is proven true?
then i would be wrong and go to hell 🤷🏽♂️ 😂 i don’t think my “response” would be of any importance at that point
@@flightsfeelings I figured you would say something like that... And you're comfortable with the thought of possibly going to hell?
no i’m not comfortable with the idea of living in eternal torment lol. but in your hypothetical scenario, i wouldn’t have a choice.
If you believe math is useful/true (2+2=4) to society, would that be making an argument for truth or usefulness? Just thinking about your morality argument.
can elaborate on how you see this as a 1 to 1 correlation to morality? im not sure of the point you’re suggesting. as a side point: something can be both truthful and useful. i simply said they are two different qualities. arguing that not having a moral value Giver would be extremely gray and inconvenient is not the same task as proving the moral Giver exists in reality. conversely, proving that a mathematical equation is true is not the same as suggesting the usefulness of that truth. einstein’s theory of general relativity was proven truthful many years ago and we are still exploring the usefulness of that equation today.
@@flightsfeelings hey thanks for responding. In your video you never mentioned that something can be useful and truthful at the same time but I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you believe that. I only used the math example because it is both useful and truthful. There is no way around it. I believe God gave us the morality and I believe it both useful and truthful.
@@everydaygainesyou don’t have to give the benefit of the doubt. i’m telling you in the comment above lol. i’ve never said something can’t be both truthful and useful. math is both truthful and useful. great. giving random examples of something being both truthful and useful still doesn’t negate my point.
I have SO many questions about this video.
Alright
I'm listening. I'm hearing a lot about religion...and I ask this respectfully as one imperfect human being to another...what has Jesus himself personally done to you? What about Him, brought you to the conclusion that you should not/could not believe in Him and what He's done? I'm not asking to trigger or argue, I'm asking for perspective.
respectfully, its semantics. your relationship to christ is still a religion. a religious relationship or a relational religion.
@thshores I understand religion to be how I practice my faith, such as praying or worshipping "religiously"...but the person whom I pray to and worship is a person, and of course I believe Him to be without blemish, perfect, and loving. So when I asked I meant, what did the "person" named Jesus or Yeshua do or maybe even not do...but according to our difference of understanding, I can respect if you would still respond with the same answer. Thank you for your time. Much love.
the definition of religion is literally “the belief in and worship of a superhuman power or powers, especially a God or gods.” christian’s often try to give it a more rigid definition and then say “well that’s not what christianity is”. but when i say religion or religious people or religious thought, i literally just mean “belief in and/or submission to the supernatural”. i think it’d be hard to believe there are many christians who would say that doesn’t apply to them. i’m not sure who started the “it’s relationship not religion” PR campaign but man has it been effective lol but even the bible (james) has no problem with the word religion so im not sure why christian’s have developed such an aversion to it.
@thshores I apologize. It seems the way I worded my question and explanation implied that I have a problem with religion/the word religion...I don't. Maybe there was a better way to word my question for better understanding. Honestly, I don't think I was off, I do believe an assumption has been made about me concerning the way I asked the question. I agree, "religion" itself is not bad. I was attempting to make a distinction between lifestyle and relationship, but once again, I think there's a misunderstanding here. I digress. I hope you can understand where I'm coming from. Thank you anyway for engaging and responding.
Thank you for being vulnerable and real. I hoe you stop trying to believe that it’s real. You are trying to do something that only God will do. I did that for a while and trust me when I say it was stressful, torturous and hard because I was trying to do what only Jesus himself can do. I had to be at my lowest and was then able to call solely on Jesus. I had run out of any other words and was about to bust at my job. Jesus, to my actual surprise, showed up and I literally felt this sense of warmth and peace. I’m not saying in one day but, just ask and say it loud like you need your parent to come to the room quick. Another thing is I had to read the book of John. I got the actual chance to meet Jesus the one that was living on earth. Ate, celebrated, wept, had family members that thought He was crazy
oh i’m not trying to believe in jesus lol. not what i was trying to communicate. that ship has sailed.
@@flightsfeelings As long as you are living, that ship hasn’t sailed unless Jesus Christ/ God decided to let you actually go. I’m sure that you heard the scripture that “God is everywhere. Even if I am in hell you are there. Where can I go that you are not there?”. I have been in your shoes and I hope that you will get the best . 👍🏽💯
k
Your honesty is beautiful I must say
When you say you don’t see truth, do you mean a lack of evidence for the immaterial?
i mean a lot of things can be “evidence” for the supernatural. i don’t believe the existence of god can be proven or disproven.
Hey Joe,
Hope you're well! Thanks for the video. I always love your color grading.
Have you anywhere described in detail your contentions with the truth claims of Christianity? That is to say, what is it exactly about or within Christianity that you find to be untenably untrue?
i believe religion is man’s attempt to feel like he understands what he actually doesn’t. . i believe christian faith has far more to do with great imaginations than great faith. i believe christianity is an island losing ground to the ocean of scientific advancement. cognitive dissonance is the only way to hold on to it and apologetics is the disingenuous attempt to relieve that dissonance.
@@flightsfeelings Thanks for responding. I don't mean to monopolize your time but would you be willing to say more? What particular scientific advancements are Christians being cognitively dissonant to?
@@M-JACOY any area. and i dont mean scientific advancement in the last 10-20 years but our understanding of the world since the enlightenment. cosmology. astronomy. astrophysics. evolutionary biology. anthropology. social sciences. what's funny is that it has been my experience in every one of these fields that christians will gladly accept and even celebrate whatever these sciences have to say... so long as it agrees with their theology. but they call into question anything that doesn't. is this theological fidelity or intellectual dishonesty? reason is only good so long as it supports their version of theism, and that is getting more difficult to do from the telescope to the microscope. name any scientific understanding that bumps up against christianity, and christians will do all kinds of mental gymnastics to make it work. and i USED to do the gymnastics. but at some point the line between theological fidelity and intellectual dishonesty becomes too thin.
Do you have a video telling us the reasons why you left the faith?
yep
Many are called but few are chosen.
hope you’re proud of yourself for being chosen.
@@flightsfeelings what's not to like or be proud of?
@@earthmuthoni8558 lol spoken like a true christian saved by grace and not by his doing lol have a great day
Try talking with a Catholic priest. I used to be Atheist, but Catholicism has all the answers you need and the practicality of what faith is in real life. Reason and history took me into the Catholic Church. Faith is an act of will, informed by reason/evidence but also a gift of grace. Disagreement with Catholicism is the result of ignorance of its actual teachings. Remember we are dealing with paradigms, therefore you must subject your own position to the same scrutiny/objection and ask yourself, does my position/paradigm solve what I object against for a theistic worldview?
Watch Thomistic Epistemology and The mind's encounter with God of Thomistic Institute. Aquinas gave the answers to all of your questions centuries ago.
always leery of people who have a one stop shop for all your skepticism, especially if that one stop is located in one person, such as Thomas Aquinas, who i’m familiar with. i’m familiar with many of the basic arguments for christian theism from early church philosophers. the ironic thing about going to a reformed seminary is that they rely heavily on the teachings of many early catholic thinkers. my first informal introduction to apologetics was actually through a catholic college campus org.
yes, it is all paradigms. and at best, i strongly question a theistic worldview, especially on as specific as christianity. championing specific brand of christianity doesn’t solve the issues for me either. it is very much a leap of faith, and one that i apparently have not been afforded enough grace to do.
@@flightsfeelings here is the problem: The hermaneutic of suspicion. Are you also suspicious of your own ideas and thouthts? Do you really think I would have made my decision by only looking at 1 particular philosopher? Just shows me you are projecting your own bias instead of looking at the evidence.
Ultimately everything you do requires a degree of faith, including trusting your own abilities or the methods we came to discover by using our abilities. There is quite a lot of stuff skeptics take for granted without question, including meaning, ethical imperatives or that truth exist.
Nothing of this is meant personal, but one should also reason through the end what the consequences are if we would take this worldview. And I see many more logical, ethical and epestemic issues with Atheism than Theism. I came to conclude there are no unbelievers only idolaters.
Nothing of this I say to demean you, but just give a different perspective.
Always be welcome on Catholic Forum on Discord.
All the best.
i am suspicious of my own thoughts and ideas. i speak of that quite often on this channel, if not this very video (i don’t remember). i have come to believe that any worldview you hold can lead to infinite regress and at some point, if you want to go on living, you must accept an “it is what it is” type of philosophy (or maybe an “i am that i am”). as you say, a type of faith, or as i call it, accepting some sort of delusion or myth. i am okay with this.
i am aware of the inherent incompleteness of my worldview.
i don’t take for granted morality or reality. i also speak at some length about this on my channel as well. theism (and again, not even a theism as specific as christianity) often simply offers the usefulness of, for example, moral absolutes, but rarely if ever realize they are not actually making an argument for its truthfulness or logical necessity. and even when it’s pointed out, it seems to difficult for them to truly grasp the distinction.
and sir, i never assumed that *you* made your decision off one philosopher. but it was you was that quite literally suggested one philosopher to me, when you said “aquinas gave the answers to * all*your questions centuries ago” lol. so no i’m not projecting bias. i am merely responding to what you suggested. 🤷🏽♂️ if that’s not what you meant, you can also clarify but i am hardly projecting. there’s no need to take offense.
and even if i did assume you did make decision off one philosopher, i don’t know you. you’d be surprised how many people do hang their hat on one or a small handful of individuals. take no offense. and in this same spirit, i take no offense when, instead asking questions to gain understanding, you seem to immediately jump to offering food for thought that you assume i have not wrestled with. i am no expert in apologetics, philosophy and theology but it has been an obsession of mine through countless books, seminary, workshops, discussion, podcasts, debates, teaching it myself, self reflection and tears since roughly 2009. it was actually through christian apologetics that learned the important task of always questioning my presuppositions over a decade ago. and i am thankful for that. but your language seems to assume you’re introducing me to new ideas rather than genuinely inquiring to see where our understandings and assumptions diverge. christians who engage with me here often seem to insert themselves in the role of teacher rather than equal peer student. i take no offense though. likewise, it’s clear you do not know me.
“i conclude there are no unbelievers, only idolaters”. i mean, this is unsurprising. not really a hot or unique take. i could also say “i conclude there are no true christians, only homo sapiens with the insatiable need to hold on to myths.” but what would that provide for a productive conversation with an actual christian? you wouldn’t find that claim persuasive at all but it allows me a convenient evasion from the real issue: there are people who genuinely believe in the christian god and find many reasons for doing so. even if your position is true, you’d think the more whimsical christian apologetic approach would be to establish common ground with the supposed idolater who, as romans 1 suggests, already has a general revelation of god and his attributes through the perceived world. and then engage from there. you know, the classic teleological argument, rather than showing your hand from the jump.
unless you’re not interested in conversation on common ground and are simply looking for a “gotcha” moment. which is also not uncommon. i find often that very many christian apologists, especially the ones in comment sections given how limited the medium is, seem to be interested in these “gotcha” moments and very few interested in honest engagement or inquiry with keenly relevant rebuttals.
@@flightsfeelingsI'm not here for gotcha moments, you are most welcome on Catholic Forum we have cordial discussions on a daily basis and deal with every kind of worldview and questions/objections, we will do our best to answer them to the best of our ability.
All the best.
if how you’ve approached me here is an extension how your forum goes, i am not at all interested.
I hear what you’re saying but I actually see an encounter between a Christian apologist and an atheist or Muslim who converted to Christianity, the Christian could take the stance that Jesus was always there all along, no matter where you’re from. He’s omnipresent, omnipotent…etc. . All of the things you attributed to your intuition or Allah or other gods, was Jesus or the holy spirit all along. They wouldn’t consider the genuine faith of other pre Christian beliefs because they are already buying into the Christian supremacy idea. One true god, and so on and so forth.
sure. it’s a doctrine. a doctrine that dismisses experience altogether. which is fine.
@@flightsfeelings I don’t think it’s fine at all. But I can see how a Christian would say these things and it not be disingenuous. Being disingenuous implies intent. When one is heavily indoctrinated they genuinely think their way is the only way, sort of like the ego of a toddler. They can’t fathom a point of view that deviates from their worldview. In adults it’s form of stunted growth that makes it difficult to maintain a world that is safe to coexist with others who don’t share that view.
You should just ask him to prove himself. No preacher , person or thing and prove God better than himself.
yup. did that. many times lol