I got saved at an Apostolic church. We had 2 services on Sunday, Tuesday night Bible Study, and shut ins. Im grateful for the foundation I got. I learned how to pray and fast and study my Bible. We were a family. I now go to a nondenominational church, and I love it, also. I've only joined 2 churches since I've been saved (25 years). Church family is very important and essential.
I'm from India. I'm neither black nor American, but as someone who's wrestling with a lot of things after having moved away from the church, your journey resonates with me a lot and has definitely helped me feel a sense of community when I have none. There aren't many people to whom I can go vent my "church hurt" so, watching you speak and address a lot of the things I'm going through helps a lot. It's really fascinating how different yet how similar our lives can be. So, I just wanted to say how glad and grateful I am for your music and more so, particularly now, for this channel. This to me, is more than a warm blanket, a home away from home. Thanks a lot :)
I am half African American, half Jamaican and I agree; I feel as if black American church culture is starting to die out as the older generations are passing away. I was raised in a black Baptist church but switched to non-denominational when I became a adult because I preferred to wear jeans and a t-shirt to church instead of a church hat and and stockings like my grandmother did lol and I agree that’s hard to revive black Christian church culture among gen z and millennials; I think it’s because we’re witnessing a cultural shift in real time. I also think intercultural/interracial marriages have a role to play (I’m saying this as a product of an intercultural marriage).
As someone who is Black American, and Nigerian, and have experienced both cultures in church and love and neeeeeed that in my own personal worship; and am currently deconstructing some things myself, For the last 4-5 years I have only been attending "Australian" culture (for lack of a better label) churches and feel like something is just missing for me. So it's been hard to "go to church" outside of my home, cause I just feel like even in churches where everyone/the locals are from the trenches (streets) everyone is sort of conforming to a unified contemporary sound. Like it's been really bothering me. While I looooove contemporary worship, I miss the Marvin Sapp, Fredd Hammond, Shekienah Glory kind of worship. Thanks for talking about this though. I wish the church would have the hard conversations too.
Yes!!! This! I still bump the oldie Goldies because there is power in the authentic black church experience. There’s problematic stuff but we had the gospel in expression on lock. Now everyone is contemporary Christian, Hillsong sounding, and wear skinny jeans. Praising and worshiping in the dark. Just don’t enjoy it as much
😂 @20:35 I loved this whole video and perspective. It honestly connects my cultural experience, like you said it would, specifically in the US. Belonging and still feeling not completely apart or people's projected beliefs on myself. 👏🏽 This was another great conversation with us, Joe!
There is so much to love here. Thank you for giving voice to the separation between being a Believer in Christ and having love for the Culture of the Black Church (regardless of how you feel about the institution). This is rampant in the current expressions of our culture specifically in Social Media in a way that can tend to lead people to believe that if they are participating in these elements, they've mastered their relationship with God which is simply not true. As a Believer, I mourn the centralization and lifting up of the culture vs. the Power that produced the expressions that we all love (relic or otherwise). I think heart posture is most important in faith. Your journey is still in process (even though you seem pretty resolute in your stance, which I respect). My prayer is that the Lord will continue to pursue your heart and you allow Him to win you back. Your influence is infectious & the body would be all the better with you as part of it than not.
I love that you still claim Black Christian culture as your own. I agree that no one can take it from you. As a Black Christian woman, I think that the culture is evolving in some ways and that’s great. If we’re being honest, some stuff (like mimes) needs to go lol. I’ve never been here for the patriarchy and misogyny that seems inherent in the black church and I can see how that’s slowly starting to change in some places. I think there will always be remnants of black church culture though it may not always be mainstream. I grew up in a small Full Gospel church and it’s still going lol. There are black churches that still have the choirs and everything. I really don’t think the black church is going anywhere if you’re looking for it. As far as the rituals that are formed around church and whatnot, that’s still available as well. I think as people get married and build families they create their own rituals/traditions. I’m sure people who subscribe to traditional black Christian church will look for that and be able to find one. The people who no longer subscribe to that are free to create something that fits them. This is why community is important regardless of religious background/beliefs. Personally, I’m not someone who attends church every Sunday and doesn’t have to physically be in the building when I do. I realize that I got enough of being at church every Sunday and Wednesday night along with the at least monthly Sunday evening service when I was younger lol. Whenever I have kids I don’t think I’ll subject them to that. I’m thankful my relationship with God is not dependent on that. I imagine whenever I marry, my husband and I will establish our own rituals on Sunday which may include physically going to church sometimes, going grocery shopping or a kids sports game or just hanging out as a family other times but knowing, loving and spending time with God always. This was a dope video Joe. Glad you’re back for now. I’m interested to see what others say in the comments.
@@asdfghjkl3003 Personally, I don’t prefer it over the praise dancers and since it’s similar, it can go. The song choice kinda makes or breaks it anyway. It was never my favorite.
What is Christian culture? Slavery, lynching,murder, kidnapping, torture, branding and telling whitefolks about Christianity when they gave Christianity to the slave. There was no Jesus the J didn't exist until 600yrs ago. The sad thing is blacks will not even investigate what the slave master gave them
@@theycallmetriceHahaha I agree with everything you said. Also miming is not great. Mostly the song choice is what people react to, not the actual miming
I was raised Pentecostal and my Christian experience mirrored yours in many ways… When I discovered you left the faith I lamented but not for the same reasons as many… I was barely holding on and it scared me to see someone I thought was so strong in the faith walk away because my questions became more glaring… if I am to be honest I envied your courage…Many will never understand the courage it takes to pursue truth no matter where it leads, in the Pentecostal church it feels truly like you are putting your literally life(soul) at risk… Let’s not even talk about how the Christian church will shun you despite the unconditional love they profess… Anyway I’m not here to bash the church … I have not walked away from my faith however I am on a journey I’ve been afraid to take for almost 20 years and honestly it’s even scary that I find peace in some of the truths I’ve already discovered.. I just know I can no longer ignor what I can’t reconcile… but the jury is still out lol.. i digress… I too needed a reminder that my experience is still mine.. I can still enjoy what I love about the church and release what no longer serves me. Please continue to share your journey… it can be lonely and confusing and although everyone’s trajectory is there own… it is refreshing and encouraging to see how you are navigating the waters 💕 Thank you
I am a Black preacher from Baltimore, Maryland. I heard what you have said. And I see you with the same dilemma I had 60 years ago. How do I reconcile my life in the flesh with what should be my Christian experience? We are no longer uneducated, poor, or totally in love with many of the trapping that identify our Christian past walk. The music may not move us in the same way. We may not see ourselves as the victims that many in the church have taught us to be. The Bible says that we are " A new creation, all things are new". We enter our relationship with God with a clean slate. The Bible tells us that in this relationship, we are not led by the dictates of our flesh but by the leadership of the Holy Spirit, Psalm 23, Romans 8:14. God teaches us to be like him while contending and embracing the things of our past. When we try to do it, we live in the dilemma that you describe. We cannot bring the burdens of life with us. We learn to give them to God and follow the plan he has for our lives.
Even though I grew up in a black southern baptist church, I've never been a part of black American church culture. For one, my church didn't do all 'at, lol! I strayed away from the faith when I went away to college, BUT, I found my way back while I was living in Los Angeles at the age of 33. When I did, I realized that my worship and study of God transcended ANY culture. Culture wasn't even a factor, and this is coming from someone who used to decide on what church to attend depending on their music, lol! When I started strengthening my relationship w/God again, I actually went to a church where I couldn't STAND the singing, lol! But I went there because the Pastor preached a message that wasn't centering the Word around what I wanted, or around MY life. It was centered around God, and what He wanted from me. Now, I gravitate toward any music about Jesus that rings true, according to the Word, and I select a church the same way.
Thank you Joseph for this video. I enjoy hearing how your mind works. For many years, I felt like I'm not allowed to question religion/church, etc. But I always felt odd when sitting there listening to the pastor scream into the mic, producing more mic feedback than a message. Or the two old ladies sitting right in front of you who have to shout and dance down the isle during every song. My energy has never matched the church vibe. This made me fall off from going for years. It just feel so preformative sometimes, but I'm scared to admit it. Idk... But thank you for being real on your channel. 😊
This is so good. So glad you're doing this. Ppl need this honestly no matter if some may not understand the necessity of having this topic discussed. I'm not sure if you believe in God or not but I do want to lyk that God is so proud of you that you're doing this and he honors your truth and your experience with him/her and is quite near you. I don't know any other word to use to describe you but you are very much anointed for this generation and you are very much NEEDED. Lastly, I Also believe that God will show himself to you in a way where you will know just how much he/ she relates to your humanity and just how much he SEES you and understands you in ways you may or may not understand. He HONORS your perspective and your experience. I just keep hearing "I honor you" " I honor you" just know that he SEES you. Whatever other Christians may think doesn't matter which I know you probably already know that but he sees you and I feel his/ her delighting in you very GREATLY. "God delights in you" ❤❤ it's a very overwhelming feeling I feel his love for you. Ok don't wanna weird you out by saying more lol but you're deeply LOVED and HONORED by God. Wish you all the best!🤞🏽🤞🏽
Joseph, your articulation sits well in my spirit. Your current place is yours to own, just as the black culture. Often times we are forced to have beliefs in particular occurrences in the church and can’t question it. I believe it’s wrong! Just as you spoke on the mimes, the persons dancing with the flags gets to me as well. Life is a journey, keep walking man…. You’ll be iight!
honestly, y’all. i try not to be bothered comments like this. but y’all have got to find more nuanced ways of engaging (especially for you as a white woman commenting on the experiences of black culture.) i get that y’all want me to come back to your way of thinking. but it’s not persuasive to me or even an interesting/unique perspective. simply replying “oh that’s because it’s the spirit.” or “that’s because god said…” like have a question. or a more nuanced perspective/curiosity. that’s what this channel is for. for people who have wandered beyond the walls of christianity, or are interested in having real conversations rather than easy-bake christian responses. it just feels lazy. that type of evangelism may work for some, but it does nothing for me. respectfully
At the risk of imposing myself and being ignored (that’s okay too… it can be a form of therapy 😊)… I hope what I have to say is received with all the affection that is intended in it and is brief 😅. This may be slightly off topic too. In recent years, I stopped following your platforms as closely because I misunderstood your experiences. I struggled to look beyond my ego and preferences, I guess, to hear the message a fellow human being making sense of existence was conveying. It was clear to see even years before your public confession that you were preoccupied on the inside. I have been on a profound, difficult, and humbling journey of my own… trying to find the intersection between being an African and having a largely westernised and scientific upbringing (spirituality plays a major part in this). I’ve spent the last 3 years on my own… learning, wrestling, and transforming… thank goodness for the internet… in welcome and necessary ways I might add. It’s been perplexing yet freeing. Anyway, after popping up on my feed a few times, I binge watched your content and am convicted. I recognize your plea not to be dismissed as if you’re an adolescent throwing a tantrum. I realize that the older I get, the less I know. It’s foolish of me to rob you of the free will I enjoy to choose/evolve in what I believe (or don’t). Ultimately, you’ll end up exactly where you’re supposed to be (at your most authentic self) and we should allow you the grace to do just that. Wishing you all the best. By the way… you write so beautifully 😍.
I KNOW this is gonna be RICH and I did NOT want to try and listen to it during my HECTIC work week! I am VERY MUCH looking forward to listening to this while Adulting on a Saturday morning...aka, a few hours (thanks insomnia 🙃) because Joe always, ALWAYS teaches me something new! 😃
You were a great force for God. People, myself included, saw your videos at a time of struggle and it encouraged us. We are heartbroken because we know the cost of your decision to leave the faith. Payers for you and your walk. Videos like this prove that Christ is still your identity, just from a different view now. His arms are open.
stop the gaslighting fam. this video simply proves i know how to hold multiple at ideas at once. appreciating and analyzing the design of building made by muslims doesn’t make you a muslim. same thing here.
My church is in the process of reaching the youth and young adults. They are launching a service cater to them and building a place for them to hang out. Yesterday, we had a young peacher and spoke on being doubtin Thomas and still remaining in the faith. And he mentioned that it was okay to take our questions to God. And we shouldn't be ashamed. I never heard that in the Christian church before. It felt refreshin.
I gotta say as a former chasegod subscriber this shore stuff sounds good, lots of big words, very woke, very intellectual stuff. At the end of the day we all believe something even believing in nothing is the act of believing in something. Former Christians should use the same energy they use to justify why they dont believe anymore to go back and figure out why they believed it in the first place. Remember those feels. Remember those secret moments only you and God know about-- that couldn't be explained even if you tried. We make stuff too complicated (including church folk). Joe, He allowed you to have the experience of Him enough to compel u to start using your gifts of communication, singing, storytelling etc to spread His gospel. Grew your platform and everything. Now you have finally made it to a mainstream audience and you quit your faith? It's not a coincidence. It's the classic story that always happens. Your words had enough power to change my life. Your words now is just the same stuff many in our generation are saying. Basically bc I traveled, did therapy, read some books and found a community of ppl who agree with me, I don't need God no more. Like I said classic story. We all get too big, too smart, too hurt, too popular, too self-absorbed, too something for God. Also while keeping it basic religion and church are distractions. If the adversary can convince us we don't need God it slowly graduates to we don't need morals your whole life processing system gets jacked up and now you just end up washing up on any shore instead of your soul being anchored. But I appreciate your mind and thoughts just think you're missing it a little here. I also cried laughing when you called miming stop-motion 😂 Ok I'm done.
when y’all don’t know how to thoughtfully engage, y’all resort to gaslighting. it’s like the default mode. “i don’t really know how to critically rebuttal and he using “big words”, so he must be wrong and thinking too much.” as soon as i’m accused of using “big words” lol, i already know this person just doesn’t want to actually engage thoughtfully. christian’s can be smart too. it’s okay. and anytime someone uses “woke” in 2023, i already know where to place them. in choosing to critique my personal journey, you miss the entire opportunity to address/deeply consider the real threat of homogeny on the modern church. it’s intellectually and spiritually lazy. seriously, i find it odd that someone who claims to have been a subscriber in early days is surprised that i use “big words” and have a somewhat intellectual approach to things. that has ALWAYS been my m.o. from day one. that critical approach is only appreciated when it is in favor of what you believe. i left christianity BEFORE i found new community. it was and still is hard. finding some mild success in a mainstream space doesn’t automatically provide the same financial security as being connected to the financial system of the church. again, because you choose* to be intellectually lazy and presumptuous, you never consider that people can become quite rich and popular simply by staying in the church with much less effort. the irony of you saying my story is classic is that your critique is classic. many (not all) christians such as yourself have not been able develop a more nuanced critique of people like myself beyond what they learned in children’s church. it hasn’t developed into something that actually can account for the diversity of people’s experiences. they just added a few more “deep” words and verses to it but the critique is ultimately the same and completely misses the mark. basically “bc i grew up in church, read some verses, and never left a community of people who agree with me, i know exactly why people will walk away from something that once was the center of their entire life experience.” irony. but i appreciate you engaging here, just think you’re missing a lot (almost everything) here. but i was crying laughing when you made an assumption about my entire spiritual experience even without at least skimming other vids on this channel that already addressed many of the wrong things you said. if you don’t actually care, thats totally fine. seriously. just don’t pretend to care to look godly. ok i’m done.
Nah, you hit the nail on the head! I've been saying this for years. It's the inevitable homogenization of culture (not just the church but in music, clothing, behaviors, even who we date/marry..) im still mourning as it is leaving.
Maverick City's joint album with Kirk is an example of that homogenization. There's a clear difference when Maverick does a song and Kirk has the lead on it and when one of the Maverick City members does a song in his featuring Kirk.
The difference between our generation in previous generations who lament the 'changing of the times' is that there seems to be a disintegration of what is good embedded in what is leaving. It sucks.
As of Black Christian, who's been faithful more than a decade now. I now have a mixture of close friends who all were once Christian but now a mixture of Christian, not Christian, kind of on their way out of Christianity and everything in between. We still hang out and I've kind of grown out of the proselytizing perspective and instead just being there and being a good friend. And plus it's too much work to make new friends at this age 😅. You do make a good point that I need to think more about how I can incorporate new black cultural norms that I could pass down to my future kids 🤔.
Can we (or you lol) talk about the co-opting/appropriation of black culture/black church culture/hip-hop music & culture by the white church/white evangelicalism? What has been so confusing the last 5-10ish years is the colorblindness taught by many white Christians, and yet there is so much appropriating of black culture/hip-hop culture happening in the same spaces. wild.
Short answer: church in the U.S is a business and unfortunately the nonsense they have for the past 2 decades passed on to the continent of Africa to our demise as a group. We need to realize that just because people have been doing this for “forever” does not mean it’s acceptable or righteous in Elohim’s eyes. Human beings are focused on the traditions of men instead of the Word of God and the revelation of the Ruach. We don’t interrogate the roots of what we do. Ultimately, the traditions of men will never supersede the truth of the Most High God, which by the way, we need to realize does not require 4 walls. If we are not preparing for the kingdom to come here on earth, we’re not living in reality. That truth, you only find with a real, tethered relationship to the Most High God. Our ways are not His ways!
black american church culture is so rich and unique. it wont die. it's rooted too deep in the black experience for so many reasons. i do think it has and continues to evolve as does most cultural things from one generation to the next for christians and prior christians. i still find it valuable to listen to gospel music and occasionally a sermon as part of my soul enrichment practice.
Wow…I feel seen, and for once I don’t feel crazy! 🥺 I’ve been wrestling with thoughts and ideas concerning the Christian faith since the pandemic. That is when I made my second exodus out of the church. It’s during this time that I gave myself permission to look into and or study things that genuinely interested me, like Astrology and other world religions. It’s disheartening when you yearn for community but have to give up some the most authentic parts of yourself to “fit in.” At the end of the day, I just never felt comfortable. Certain scripture hit me and I’m like….nah, that doesn’t resonate with me, but why? And when you began to pose questions to these pastors, often you immediately become a “problem”, and your spiritual gifts are now classified as “demonic or witchcraft.” How quickly you become an enemy to them and their flock for your curiosity and desire for deeper understanding. I’ve had some BEAUTIFUL spiritual experiences over the course of my life, and I know it was God. But whenever my personal experiences are diminished or demonized by a theology that doesn’t make room for anything outside of itself, it just doesn’t sit well with me. All that to say, THANK YOU. Cheers to the journey. ALOT of us are there with you. Most are too afraid to admit it. Church programs a lot of fear in you. I’m deconstructing that now by making a choice to step away for a moment so that I can make sure my decision to practice WHATEVER I decide to is NOT rooted in fear, so that I can OWN IT FULLY.
In the 80's and 90's, Black Church was my only connection to blackness and community. My family was military and we lived in a white neighborhood. As young adults {1998), we eventually started attending a white Assemblies of God Church. My Mom still goes there. My brother is an employee. I told my mom I missed the black church's communal activities and music. My childhood church had regular picnics at the park and lockin's at the skating rink. After Sunday service, people would join tables at the local buffet restaurant and eat together. We would be sitting there for a couple of hours, fellowshipping. These are the aspects of Christian life that are found in the Book of Acts. Those people met daily to read the word and shared meals together.
I understand why many of us feel the way you do. I would agree that many of us desire to bring culture into our Christian experiences, and we often desire to make others conform to our culture. It is sad that this is brought into the family of God. Many forget passages in the Bible that speaks against this behavior. It's not about being black or white or anything else. The early church being originally filled by Jews often attempted tried to make nonjews change or abandon their culture. It was decided that this wasn't necessary. They only had to give up those things that were considered uncleaned or sinful according to the revealed word. Today we often teach religious ideas and often forget the core teaches of Jesus and His disciples. We are more concerned with music styles, preaching styles, and the like than what the core doctrines teach. Christianity is about how you were called out of the world systems and brought into the Kingdom of God. It is about learning to live a life that is guided not by what people say but your King. It is how you learn to love your neighbors and your God with everything you are. It is about how you consider not your own thoughts or feelings as supreme wisdom but you learn to align them to what is taught in Scripture. Unfortunately in today's world many look st their faith as personal buy truly it is never really about you. God desires we learn not to be so selfish or self-centered. Jesus's Kingdom begins with denying oneself and following the way of selflessness. It is about community and spreading the truth of who Jesus is and what we were created for. Be blessed, and may God watch over you and everyone else who is struggling with their faith
A really heart-felt message with hints of humour! I think a lot of truthful points have been highlighted here. It's quite deep as a lot has been touched on, too much to comment individually. But in a nutshell: -Blacks have NEVER been "allowed" to gate-keep their own culture across EVERY sphere of influence, that's wrong but is also now changing slowly, from observation... -Value preserves a culture, as we have been taught the value of Black American Church Culture, so should many others who might see it as an invitation to participate and to be empowered by efforts of those in an era that existed before them -Black American Church Leaders have a huge role to play in this process, especially in regards to education, information and empower ment - congregants and supporters too! Share, create, promote, revive it creatively, intellectually, socially etc. - We mistake uniformity/ unity of The Spirit, word, doctrine in the Church with having unity in diversity. Diversity, culture and ethnicity are ALL as equally important to the Lord and how we preserver our unique cultural expressions. In Heaven, every tongue will cry out, nation represented and ethnicities! Our Cultures matter and are valued in God's eyes! -Being a Black British Christian, is beautiful, for most part. Representation is there locally, existing as smaller communities and Led by Black Christian Leaders who have a strong influence and presence. -Nationally and mainstream representations of Christianity in UK, supported by Monarchy or other ruling institutions will not generally, be complimentary with the average young, Black British Christians understandings. On many levels. So conflicting ideas will exist - There are at least 6-7 prominent denominations in UK, the largest and most influential being the pentecostal and Evangelical Churches. They differ in perspectives -Thanks for sharing a fantastic video, great to hear your perspectives, see all the joy in you and... WELCOME BACK!
It's so weird because I'm in the same river but different boats. I moved away from Christian church. Yahweh constantly says to me "church is the dumbest place a believer can go, because what part of church practices are in the Bible? 😅 I'm like tithes and dancing like David??? He's like "they do that wrong too" So I feel you on moving away from the church and religion but I'm still rocking with Yahweh. The black church has been a pacifier for blacks for centuries now. It's not completely useless but not even close to Father's idea of... "church" they rely too heavily on belief and don't realize faith comes from EVIDENCE😊
Due to a lack of a church home, our church has been like a group of vagabond gypsies going from meeting inside of two large churches that belonged to other congregations, to meetin g inside an old movie theater, not once, but now twice because we loss the last church due to a sale. It's ridiculous! We can't get enough members to even rent a decent meeting room at a school or hotel. I think this is one manifestation of the sliding downfall of the black American Christian church culture.
I feel deep.down your love for the word remains intact but christendom as we know it throws you off. Let me know if I am on point Mr Solomon I feel a real hunger for God in you but an extreme displeasure for church culture but the spark is there.
Hey Joseph, you did a cover for defender on your old channel a couple years back and I really loved it and think about it often. It’s probably a long shot but is there any way that I could somehow listen to that again? I hope everything is going well for you. Much love
Mmm it’s rare a video captures my thoughts in the moment. Black church culture is full of black PEOPLE, and that’s why I love it 😂 But the other elements are troubling and actually push me away from God. Having my own relationship with God made me question the culture and how close it was to God’s original intent. Additionally the commentary on apologetics is so real. I went through an apologetics phase, mainly to unpack my theology. I wasn’t a Faith defender, just wanted clarity on some theological points. And it felt a little anti-black being with those white theologians who couldn’t affirm the intersection of black experiences and justice that’s key to the gospel lol. So now I’m just here I guess. I go to church, love the people, not necessarily the ideology. I’m kinda done with apologetics for now, as Faith is experiential not intellectual. That’s a pride issue. I can’t (and won’t) turn my brain off, but my belief/experience of God keeps me in the church and loving him. And maybe that’s the point. Our experience on earth is kinda trash, but it has some good moments. Ready to see the King in eternity to experience what he designed for us to enjoy ❤
White face is hilarious 😆 I am appreciative of black church culture…skipping to my neighborhood church with ruffle socks, black patent leather shoes, a poofy dress, and wearing my hair in a pony tail with a big poofy bang is vivid in my mind, a happy healthy memory.
I live in Europe, I am white, but Christian and believer. But I can really respect how black people worship God, Jesus. Listening to gospel is an uplifting feeling. I like worship music so much. i think black people are closest to God and Jesus. By the way, has anyone ever asked black people if they like being called black? Because I think their skin has a million beautiful shades of brown. That's what I think. God Bless You Joseph! I really like your personality. 😇🥰
just like you said. Fred Hammond is just good music! You dont have to be a believer to enjoy good music. Thats how I feel about you. I just adore you and enjoy your content. The believer Joe, the Unbeliever Joe. I enjoyed the former and am enjoying the latter. No one takes your gifts. Even in Christianity we believe God doesn't take back gifts.
Sadly you were never a Christian, Joseph but an apostate and like the millions of others who walked away from Christ. "They went out from us..." Apostle John writes. More on Apostates by John MacArthur, "An apostate can be bred only in the brilliant light of proximity to Christ. Apostates are not made in the absence, but in the presence, of Christ. They are bred almost without exception within the church, in the very midst of God’s people. It is possible for a person to read the Bible on his own, to see the gospel clearly, and then reject it-apart from direct association with Christians. But by and large, apostates come from within the church. Eventually, sometimes even after years of pretense and self-deception, the unbeliever who acts like a believer finally falls away. He gives up, loses interest, and goes his own way. He returns to sinning willfully, with no more regard for the Lord’s way or the Lord’s people. To know God’s way, to study about it and hear about it, to identify with believers, and then turn away is to become apostate. The process of falling away may be gradual, but at some point a conscious decision is made to leave the way of God, and reject the saving grace of the Lord Jesus Christ."
yeah i haven’t heard this before. you’re so smart and original lol john macarthur aided and abetted and abided an abuser in his church for years. i don’t need morality lessons from him.
I’m become aware of the importance of knowing the truth about the Bible. And the way religion has been used to manipulate people around the world. The truth will set your spirit free and allow you to know how to move forward in the world full of spiritual beings. I thank Black Jesus Christ, God and the Lord. 💜
Hey joseph, do you still believe in the existence of God and Jesus? I understand the role of not wanting to believe in the church system and religion but thats different than believing in who created us?
for sure man. Just want to say, don't know if you chose not to believe anymore, But, If I choose to not believe in gravity, it doesn't mean its not real. I cant see it or touch it but I have to believe its there because that's the truth so.. what if God is real and the God who made us is the one who sent Jesus, When you die, you will have to answer to him, I don't want to face death knowing hey, I know the truth but I choose not to believe@@flightsfeelings
your reply addresses no concerns of mine. if you were genuinely curious on my stance, you’d check out the other videos and have thoughtful responses to specific thought processes of mine. otherwise, offering generic assumptions does nothing for the conversation.
Great video. My issue with any Christian that has issue with you practicing and enjoying black Christian culture is they are too comfortable pushing people away rather than spreading love. Like a child that doesn’t want you to play with their toys because you’ve expressed your beliefs. It’s supposed to be about evangelism not gatekeeping. If anything it’s great that you still feel connected to gospel and I feel still a chance you can reconnect with God. Thank you for being so transparent ❤
I could send you pictures of myself (a white dude) miming to worship music on a downtown corner in 2006… just to claim my points! 😂 There was this group called Action Impact Ministries that came to our church and did workshops to train us to evangelize in different creative means. Even at the time, I remember not being 100% down with it but good memories for sure! These videos mean a lot to me! I hope you upload more regularly.
I really apprecilove this i still some of the song that relate to me I moved away from the church is not that I moved away from the God in me yes I sing that song too that victory belong to me I don't sing victory belong to Jesus it belongs to me. I moved away from the religious psychosis we are spiritual beings having a human experience and remember our thoughts become our reality and words are powerful I am careful of what I say are think
well church, as described in this video, is broader than its theological assertions but also includes its cultural expressions. so yeah, i'm okay with appreciation cultural artifacts without needing to subscribe to its tenets. this is not uncommon for christians to do in the other direction, so i feel there should be no qualms. christians do yoga, despite it theological origins. celebrate christmas, listen to Christian hip hop, celebrate fourth of july. they engage in all kinds of cultural celebration without feeling the need to pledge some allegiance to its origins. so i don't think this is a farfetched idea, even for bible believing christians.
@@flightsfeelings respect bro! everyone has their unique journey, I respect yours. As a Christian, logically I'd want all, including you, to be "in the faith" so to speak. But I appreciate your thoughts, your honesty, and your videos. Keep it up! I'm glad you can appreciate some of the elements that may be familial.
@@AntGray13 I would like to ask you as a former black christian myself.. how do you view cultural holidays and christian rap, trunk or treats ext. ext.?
@@j.pipparker I don't particularly view cultural holidays in any particular way. As far as Christian rap I see it as an art form that infuses Christian content/elements similar to any other Christian music genre or artistic form. As far as trunk or treats I view it similar to other holidays. If there isn't anything ungodly in terms of glorifying death and gore I don't see much harm in it.
I think there is a particular danger in idealizing cultural expression when it comes to Christianity. The unifying element of Christianity is belief that Christ is the Son of God & died for the sins of mankind. Songs, traditions, food, in group sayings, all of that is laid waste when we leave this earth. The only thing that will last in eternity is this: did you know & serve Christ. If so, then there is a bond created far beyond shared skin color or preferences in music style. Simply believing in Christ makes two different ppl, from opposite ends of this planet, a part of the same family, sharing the same Spirit, a part of the same Body. That’s outweighs music traditions every day of the week!!!! I said all that to say this: I’m glad you have fond memories of the church & black Christian culture. But true Christians are not worried about this! I hope you find Jesus one day. I’m praying for you. ❤❤❤❤
it sounds like you didn’t really hear out the video or didn’t quite understand. there are “true christians” that are concerned about this, as seen in these comments. this sounds like a “no true scottsman fallacy”. and christian or not, my point stands that the transporting of religion is virtually impossible without transporting culture, even if you’re unaware of it. christians who are concerned with knowing the difference between culture and gospel should be concerned with this. otherwise, they are at danger for falling for or propagating the same flaws of cultures before and around them. one christian could argue it IS a gospel issue, when certain cultures erase other cultures because of the commodification of faith. homogeny is a real threat to genuine expression of faith. lastly, am not a christian, so obviously i’m going to make criticism from a non-christian standpoint.
@@flightsfeelings I suppose I should have provided context, but my response was more so towards the conflict feelings that people experience when deconstructing their faith. I left the church in 2019 to save my relationship with myself and God. There’s no going back.
Asking purely out of interest and curiosity. You mentioned the dancing and praying and tongues and Pentecostal roots. Do you believe you were ever baptized in the Holy Spirit? How are you reconciling any ‘Spiritual encounters’? Love you, Joe
I got saved at an Apostolic church. We had 2 services on Sunday, Tuesday night Bible Study, and shut ins. Im grateful for the foundation I got. I learned how to pray and fast and study my Bible. We were a family. I now go to a nondenominational church, and I love it, also. I've only joined 2 churches since I've been saved (25 years). Church family is very important and essential.
I'm from India. I'm neither black nor American, but as someone who's wrestling with a lot of things after having moved away from the church, your journey resonates with me a lot and has definitely helped me feel a sense of community when I have none. There aren't many people to whom I can go vent my "church hurt" so, watching you speak and address a lot of the things I'm going through helps a lot. It's really fascinating how different yet how similar our lives can be.
So, I just wanted to say how glad and grateful I am for your music and more so, particularly now, for this channel. This to me, is more than a warm blanket, a home away from home. Thanks a lot :)
I am half African American, half Jamaican and I agree; I feel as if black American church culture is starting to die out as the older generations are passing away. I was raised in a black Baptist church but switched to non-denominational when I became a adult because I preferred to wear jeans and a t-shirt to church instead of a church hat and and stockings like my grandmother did lol and I agree that’s hard to revive black Christian church culture among gen z and millennials; I think it’s because we’re witnessing a cultural shift in real time. I also think intercultural/interracial marriages have a role to play (I’m saying this as a product of an intercultural marriage).
Been missing your videos and perspective bro! Been thinking and pondering with you for years and I’m super grateful for your perspective. Blessings!
As someone who is Black American, and Nigerian, and have experienced both cultures in church and love and neeeeeed that in my own personal worship; and am currently deconstructing some things myself, For the last 4-5 years I have only been attending "Australian" culture (for lack of a better label) churches and feel like something is just missing for me.
So it's been hard to "go to church" outside of my home, cause I just feel like even in churches where everyone/the locals are from the trenches (streets) everyone is sort of conforming to a unified contemporary sound. Like it's been really bothering me. While I looooove contemporary worship, I miss the Marvin Sapp, Fredd Hammond, Shekienah Glory kind of worship. Thanks for talking about this though. I wish the church would have the hard conversations too.
Watch Benayah Israel.
Yes!!! This! I still bump the oldie Goldies because there is power in the authentic black church experience. There’s problematic stuff but we had the gospel in expression on lock.
Now everyone is contemporary Christian, Hillsong sounding, and wear skinny jeans. Praising and worshiping in the dark. Just don’t enjoy it as much
Love this topic. Can’t wait to get into this video and thanks for posting! You’re looking healthy and happy! 🎉
😂 @20:35
I loved this whole video and perspective. It honestly connects my cultural experience, like you said it would, specifically in the US. Belonging and still feeling not completely apart or people's projected beliefs on myself.
👏🏽 This was another great conversation with us, Joe!
There is so much to love here. Thank you for giving voice to the separation between being a Believer in Christ and having love for the Culture of the Black Church (regardless of how you feel about the institution). This is rampant in the current expressions of our culture specifically in Social Media in a way that can tend to lead people to believe that if they are participating in these elements, they've mastered their relationship with God which is simply not true. As a Believer, I mourn the centralization and lifting up of the culture vs. the Power that produced the expressions that we all love (relic or otherwise). I think heart posture is most important in faith. Your journey is still in process (even though you seem pretty resolute in your stance, which I respect). My prayer is that the Lord will continue to pursue your heart and you allow Him to win you back. Your influence is infectious & the body would be all the better with you as part of it than not.
I love that you still claim Black Christian culture as your own. I agree that no one can take it from you. As a Black Christian woman, I think that the culture is evolving in some ways and that’s great. If we’re being honest, some stuff (like mimes) needs to go lol. I’ve never been here for the patriarchy and misogyny that seems inherent in the black church and I can see how that’s slowly starting to change in some places. I think there will always be remnants of black church culture though it may not always be mainstream. I grew up in a small Full Gospel church and it’s still going lol. There are black churches that still have the choirs and everything. I really don’t think the black church is going anywhere if you’re looking for it. As far as the rituals that are formed around church and whatnot, that’s still available as well. I think as people get married and build families they create their own rituals/traditions. I’m sure people who subscribe to traditional black Christian church will look for that and be able to find one. The people who no longer subscribe to that are free to create something that fits them. This is why community is important regardless of religious background/beliefs. Personally, I’m not someone who attends church every Sunday and doesn’t have to physically be in the building when I do. I realize that I got enough of being at church every Sunday and Wednesday night along with the at least monthly Sunday evening service when I was younger lol. Whenever I have kids I don’t think I’ll subject them to that. I’m thankful my relationship with God is not dependent on that. I imagine whenever I marry, my husband and I will establish our own rituals on Sunday which may include physically going to church sometimes, going grocery shopping or a kids sports game or just hanging out as a family other times but knowing, loving and spending time with God always. This was a dope video Joe. Glad you’re back for now. I’m interested to see what others say in the comments.
What's wrong with miming? 😮
@@asdfghjkl3003 Personally, I don’t prefer it over the praise dancers and since it’s similar, it can go. The song choice kinda makes or breaks it anyway. It was never my favorite.
What is Christian culture? Slavery, lynching,murder, kidnapping, torture, branding and telling whitefolks about Christianity when they gave Christianity to the slave. There was
no Jesus the J didn't exist until 600yrs ago. The sad thing is blacks will not even investigate what the slave master gave them
@@theycallmetriceHahaha I agree with everything you said. Also miming is not great. Mostly the song choice is what people react to, not the actual miming
I was raised Pentecostal and my Christian experience mirrored yours in many ways… When I discovered you left the faith I lamented but not for the same reasons as many… I was barely holding on and it scared me to see someone I thought was so strong in the faith walk away because my questions became more glaring… if I am to be honest I envied your courage…Many will never understand the courage it takes to pursue truth no matter where it leads, in the Pentecostal church it feels truly like you are putting your literally life(soul) at risk… Let’s not even talk about how the Christian church will shun you despite the unconditional love they profess… Anyway I’m not here to bash the church … I have not walked away from my faith however I am on a journey I’ve been afraid to take for almost 20 years and honestly it’s even scary that I find peace in some of the truths I’ve already discovered.. I just know I can no longer ignor what I can’t reconcile… but the jury is still out lol.. i digress… I too needed a reminder that my experience is still mine.. I can still enjoy what I love about the church and release what no longer serves me. Please continue to share your journey… it can be lonely and confusing and although everyone’s trajectory is there own… it is refreshing and encouraging to see how you are navigating the waters 💕 Thank you
I am a Black preacher from Baltimore, Maryland. I heard what you have said. And I see you with the same dilemma I had 60 years ago. How do I reconcile my life in the flesh with what should be my Christian experience? We are no longer uneducated, poor, or totally in love with many of the trapping that identify our Christian past walk. The music may not move us in the same way. We may not see ourselves as the victims that many in the church have taught us to be. The Bible says that we are " A new creation, all things are new". We enter our relationship with God with a clean slate. The Bible tells us that in this relationship, we are not led by the dictates of our flesh but by the leadership of the Holy Spirit, Psalm 23, Romans 8:14. God teaches us to be like him while contending and embracing the things of our past. When we try to do it, we live in the dilemma that you describe. We cannot bring the burdens of life with us. We learn to give them to God and follow the plan he has for our lives.
blessings to you fam.
Even though I grew up in a black southern baptist church, I've never been a part of black American church culture. For one, my church didn't do all 'at, lol! I strayed away from the faith when I went away to college, BUT, I found my way back while I was living in Los Angeles at the age of 33. When I did, I realized that my worship and study of God transcended ANY culture. Culture wasn't even a factor, and this is coming from someone who used to decide on what church to attend depending on their music, lol! When I started strengthening my relationship w/God again, I actually went to a church where I couldn't STAND the singing, lol! But I went there because the Pastor preached a message that wasn't centering the Word around what I wanted, or around MY life. It was centered around God, and what He wanted from me. Now, I gravitate toward any music about Jesus that rings true, according to the Word, and I select a church the same way.
Thank you Joseph for this video. I enjoy hearing how your mind works. For many years, I felt like I'm not allowed to question religion/church, etc. But I always felt odd when sitting there listening to the pastor scream into the mic, producing more mic feedback than a message. Or the two old ladies sitting right in front of you who have to shout and dance down the isle during every song. My energy has never matched the church vibe. This made me fall off from going for years. It just feel so preformative sometimes, but I'm scared to admit it. Idk...
But thank you for being real on your channel. 😊
This is so good. So glad you're doing this. Ppl need this honestly no matter if some may not understand the necessity of having this topic discussed. I'm not sure if you believe in God or not but I do want to lyk that God is so proud of you that you're doing this and he honors your truth and your experience with him/her and is quite near you. I don't know any other word to use to describe you but you are very much anointed for this generation and you are very much NEEDED. Lastly, I Also believe that God will show himself to you in a way where you will know just how much he/ she relates to your humanity and just how much he SEES you and understands you in ways you may or may not understand. He HONORS your perspective and your experience. I just keep hearing "I honor you" " I honor you" just know that he SEES you. Whatever other Christians may think doesn't matter which I know you probably already know that but he sees you and I feel his/ her delighting in you very GREATLY. "God delights in you" ❤❤ it's a very overwhelming feeling I feel his love for you. Ok don't wanna weird you out by saying more lol but you're deeply LOVED and HONORED by God. Wish you all the best!🤞🏽🤞🏽
Joseph, your articulation sits well in my spirit. Your current place is yours to own, just as the black culture. Often times we are forced to have beliefs in particular occurrences in the church and can’t question it. I believe it’s wrong! Just as you spoke on the mimes, the persons dancing with the flags gets to me as well. Life is a journey, keep walking man…. You’ll be iight!
What you love about church is the spirit that connects you to the humanity of other people. That spirit is divine. May you find what you yearn for.
honestly, y’all. i try not to be bothered comments like this. but y’all have got to find more nuanced ways of engaging (especially for you as a white woman commenting on the experiences of black culture.) i get that y’all want me to come back to your way of thinking. but it’s not persuasive to me or even an interesting/unique perspective. simply replying “oh that’s because it’s the spirit.” or “that’s because god said…” like have a question. or a more nuanced perspective/curiosity. that’s what this channel is for. for people who have wandered beyond the walls of christianity, or are interested in having real conversations rather than easy-bake christian responses. it just feels lazy. that type of evangelism may work for some, but it does nothing for me. respectfully
@@flightsfeelingssheesh your response articulated what I’ve been feeling for a while 👏🏾👏🏾
i love these videos! this is the kind of content i've been looking for for a while so i'm glad i found your channel:)
Glad you enjoy it!
At the risk of imposing myself and being ignored (that’s okay too… it can be a form of therapy 😊)… I hope what I have to say is received with all the affection that is intended in it and is brief 😅. This may be slightly off topic too.
In recent years, I stopped following your platforms as closely because I misunderstood your experiences. I struggled to look beyond my ego and preferences, I guess, to hear the message a fellow human being making sense of existence was conveying. It was clear to see even years before your public confession that you were preoccupied on the inside. I have been on a profound, difficult, and humbling journey of my own… trying to find the intersection between being an African and having a largely westernised and scientific upbringing (spirituality plays a major part in this). I’ve spent the last 3 years on my own… learning, wrestling, and transforming… thank goodness for the internet… in welcome and necessary ways I might add. It’s been perplexing yet freeing.
Anyway, after popping up on my feed a few times, I binge watched your content and am convicted. I recognize your plea not to be dismissed as if you’re an adolescent throwing a tantrum. I realize that the older I get, the less I know. It’s foolish of me to rob you of the free will I enjoy to choose/evolve in what I believe (or don’t). Ultimately, you’ll end up exactly where you’re supposed to be (at your most authentic self) and we should allow you the grace to do just that. Wishing you all the best.
By the way… you write so beautifully 😍.
this is beautiful. thank you.
LETS GOO NEW VID ON THIS CHANNEL!! i didnt come here for christianity; just here to hear joe speak his mind 🫶🏼
I KNOW this is gonna be RICH and I did NOT want to try and listen to it during my HECTIC work week!
I am VERY MUCH looking forward to listening to this while Adulting on a Saturday morning...aka, a few hours (thanks insomnia 🙃) because Joe always, ALWAYS teaches me something new! 😃
You were a great force for God. People, myself included, saw your videos at a time of struggle and it encouraged us. We are heartbroken because we know the cost of your decision to leave the faith. Payers for you and your walk.
Videos like this prove that Christ is still your identity, just from a different view now. His arms are open.
stop the gaslighting fam. this video simply proves i know how to hold multiple at ideas at once. appreciating and analyzing the design of building made by muslims doesn’t make you a muslim. same thing here.
Nahhhhh you gotta give ya flowers to the “I Told The Storm” and “Something About The Name Jesus” mimes back in the day 😂😂😂
My church is in the process of reaching the youth and young adults. They are launching a service cater to them and building a place for them to hang out.
Yesterday, we had a young peacher and spoke on being doubtin Thomas and still remaining in the faith. And he mentioned that it was okay to take our questions to God. And we shouldn't be ashamed. I never heard that in the Christian church before. It felt refreshin.
I gotta say as a former chasegod subscriber this shore stuff sounds good, lots of big words, very woke, very intellectual stuff. At the end of the day we all believe something even believing in nothing is the act of believing in something.
Former Christians should use the same energy they use to justify why they dont believe anymore to go back and figure out why they believed it in the first place. Remember those feels. Remember those secret moments only you and God know about-- that couldn't be explained even if you tried. We make stuff too complicated (including church folk).
Joe, He allowed you to have the experience of Him enough to compel u to start using your gifts of communication, singing, storytelling etc to spread His gospel. Grew your platform and everything. Now you have finally made it to a mainstream audience and you quit your faith? It's not a coincidence. It's the classic story that always happens.
Your words had enough power to change my life. Your words now is just the same stuff many in our generation are saying. Basically bc I traveled, did therapy, read some books and found a community of ppl who agree with me, I don't need God no more.
Like I said classic story. We all get too big, too smart, too hurt, too popular, too self-absorbed, too something for God.
Also while keeping it basic religion and church are distractions. If the adversary can convince us we don't need God it slowly graduates to we don't need morals your whole life processing system gets jacked up and now you just end up washing up on any shore instead of your soul being anchored.
But I appreciate your mind and thoughts just think you're missing it a little here. I also cried laughing when you called miming stop-motion 😂
Ok I'm done.
when y’all don’t know how to thoughtfully engage, y’all resort to gaslighting. it’s like the default mode. “i don’t really know how to critically rebuttal and he using “big words”, so he must be wrong and thinking too much.” as soon as i’m accused of using “big words” lol, i already know this person just doesn’t want to actually engage thoughtfully. christian’s can be smart too. it’s okay. and anytime someone uses “woke” in 2023, i already know where to place them.
in choosing to critique my personal journey, you miss the entire opportunity to address/deeply consider the real threat of homogeny on the modern church. it’s intellectually and spiritually lazy.
seriously, i find it odd that someone who claims to have been a subscriber in early days is surprised that i use “big words” and have a somewhat intellectual approach to things. that has ALWAYS been my m.o. from day one. that critical approach is only appreciated when it is in favor of what you believe.
i left christianity BEFORE i found new community. it was and still is hard. finding some mild success in a mainstream space doesn’t automatically provide the same financial security as being connected to the financial system of the church. again, because you choose* to be intellectually lazy and presumptuous, you never consider that people can become quite rich and popular simply by staying in the church with much less effort.
the irony of you saying my story is classic is that your critique is classic. many (not all) christians such as yourself have not been able develop a more nuanced critique of people like myself beyond what they learned in children’s church. it hasn’t developed into something that actually can account for the diversity of people’s experiences. they just added a few more “deep” words and verses to it but the critique is ultimately the same and completely misses the mark. basically “bc i grew up in church, read some verses, and never left a community of people who agree with me, i know exactly why people will walk away from something that once was the center of their entire life experience.” irony.
but i appreciate you engaging here, just think you’re missing a lot (almost everything) here. but i was crying laughing when you made an assumption about my entire spiritual experience even without at least skimming other vids on this channel that already addressed many of the wrong things you said. if you don’t actually care, thats totally fine. seriously. just don’t pretend to care to look godly.
ok i’m done.
Nah, you hit the nail on the head! I've been saying this for years. It's the inevitable homogenization of culture (not just the church but in music, clothing, behaviors, even who we date/marry..) im still mourning as it is leaving.
Maverick City's joint album with Kirk is an example of that homogenization. There's a clear difference when Maverick does a song and Kirk has the lead on it and when one of the Maverick City members does a song in his featuring Kirk.
The difference between our generation in previous generations who lament the 'changing of the times' is that there seems to be a disintegration of what is good embedded in what is leaving. It sucks.
As of Black Christian, who's been faithful more than a decade now. I now have a mixture of close friends who all were once Christian but now a mixture of Christian, not Christian, kind of on their way out of Christianity and everything in between. We still hang out and I've kind of grown out of the proselytizing perspective and instead just being there and being a good friend. And plus it's too much work to make new friends at this age 😅. You do make a good point that I need to think more about how I can incorporate new black cultural norms that I could pass down to my future kids 🤔.
Can we (or you lol) talk about the co-opting/appropriation of black culture/black church culture/hip-hop music & culture by the white church/white evangelicalism? What has been so confusing the last 5-10ish years is the colorblindness taught by many white Christians, and yet there is so much appropriating of black culture/hip-hop culture happening in the same spaces. wild.
Oh oops I just got to the part of the video where you touch on this. The mime part is hilarious…white folk really did leave that alone 🤣🤣🤣
Short answer: church in the U.S is a business and unfortunately the nonsense they have for the past 2 decades passed on to the continent of Africa to our demise as a group. We need to realize that just because people have been doing this for “forever” does not mean it’s acceptable or righteous in Elohim’s eyes. Human beings are focused on the traditions of men instead of the Word of God and the revelation of the Ruach. We don’t interrogate the roots of what we do. Ultimately, the traditions of men will never supersede the truth of the Most High God, which by the way, we need to realize does not require 4 walls. If we are not preparing for the kingdom to come here on earth, we’re not living in reality. That truth, you only find with a real, tethered relationship to the Most High God. Our ways are not His ways!
black american church culture is so rich and unique.
it wont die. it's rooted too deep in the black experience for so many reasons. i do think it has and continues to evolve as does most cultural things from one generation to the next for christians and prior christians.
i still find it valuable to listen to gospel music and occasionally a sermon as part of my soul enrichment practice.
Wow…I feel seen, and for once I don’t feel crazy! 🥺 I’ve been wrestling with thoughts and ideas concerning the Christian faith since the pandemic. That is when I made my second exodus out of the church. It’s during this time that I gave myself permission to look into and or study things that genuinely interested me, like Astrology and other world religions.
It’s disheartening when you yearn for community but have to give up some the most authentic parts of yourself to “fit in.” At the end of the day, I just never felt comfortable. Certain scripture hit me and I’m like….nah, that doesn’t resonate with me, but why? And when you began to pose questions to these pastors, often you immediately become a “problem”, and your spiritual gifts are now classified as “demonic or witchcraft.” How quickly you become an enemy to them and their flock for your curiosity and desire for deeper understanding.
I’ve had some BEAUTIFUL spiritual experiences over the course of my life, and I know it was God. But whenever my personal experiences are diminished or demonized by a theology that doesn’t make room for anything outside of itself, it just doesn’t sit well with me.
All that to say, THANK YOU. Cheers to the journey. ALOT of us are there with you. Most are too afraid to admit it. Church programs a lot of fear in you. I’m deconstructing that now by making a choice to step away for a moment so that I can make sure my decision to practice WHATEVER I decide to is NOT rooted in fear, so that I can OWN IT FULLY.
In the 80's and 90's, Black Church was my only connection to blackness and community. My family was military and we lived in a white neighborhood. As young adults {1998), we eventually started attending a white Assemblies of God Church. My Mom still goes there. My brother is an employee. I told my mom I missed the black church's communal activities and music. My childhood church had regular picnics at the park and lockin's at the skating rink. After Sunday service, people would join tables at the local buffet restaurant and eat together. We would be sitting there for a couple of hours, fellowshipping. These are the aspects of Christian life that are found in the Book of Acts. Those people met daily to read the word and shared meals together.
I understand why many of us feel the way you do. I would agree that many of us desire to bring culture into our Christian experiences, and we often desire to make others conform to our culture. It is sad that this is brought into the family of God. Many forget passages in the Bible that speaks against this behavior. It's not about being black or white or anything else. The early church being originally filled by Jews often attempted tried to make nonjews change or abandon their culture. It was decided that this wasn't necessary. They only had to give up those things that were considered uncleaned or sinful according to the revealed word. Today we often teach religious ideas and often forget the core teaches of Jesus and His disciples. We are more concerned with music styles, preaching styles, and the like than what the core doctrines teach. Christianity is about how you were called out of the world systems and brought into the Kingdom of God. It is about learning to live a life that is guided not by what people say but your King. It is how you learn to love your neighbors and your God with everything you are. It is about how you consider not your own thoughts or feelings as supreme wisdom but you learn to align them to what is taught in Scripture. Unfortunately in today's world many look st their faith as personal buy truly it is never really about you. God desires we learn not to be so selfish or self-centered. Jesus's Kingdom begins with denying oneself and following the way of selflessness. It is about community and spreading the truth of who Jesus is and what we were created for. Be blessed, and may God watch over you and everyone else who is struggling with their faith
A really heart-felt message with hints of humour!
I think a lot of truthful points have been highlighted here. It's quite deep as a lot has been touched on, too much to comment individually. But in a nutshell:
-Blacks have NEVER been "allowed" to gate-keep their own culture across EVERY sphere of influence, that's wrong but is also now changing slowly, from observation...
-Value preserves a culture, as we have been taught the value of Black American Church Culture, so should many others who might see it as an invitation to participate and to be empowered by efforts of those in an era that existed before them
-Black American Church Leaders have a huge role to play in this process, especially in regards to education, information and empower ment - congregants and supporters too! Share, create, promote, revive it creatively, intellectually, socially etc.
- We mistake uniformity/ unity of The Spirit, word, doctrine in the Church with having unity in diversity. Diversity, culture and ethnicity are ALL as equally important to the Lord and how we preserver our unique cultural expressions. In Heaven, every tongue will cry out, nation represented and ethnicities! Our Cultures matter and are valued in God's eyes!
-Being a Black British Christian, is beautiful, for most part. Representation is there locally, existing as smaller communities and Led by Black Christian Leaders who have a strong influence and presence.
-Nationally and mainstream representations of Christianity in UK, supported by Monarchy or other ruling institutions will not generally, be complimentary with the average young, Black British Christians understandings. On many levels. So conflicting ideas will exist
- There are at least 6-7 prominent denominations in UK, the largest and most influential being the pentecostal and Evangelical Churches. They differ in perspectives
-Thanks for sharing a fantastic video, great to hear your perspectives, see all the joy in you and... WELCOME BACK!
It's so weird because I'm in the same river but different boats.
I moved away from Christian church. Yahweh constantly says to me "church is the dumbest place a believer can go, because what part of church practices are in the Bible?
😅 I'm like tithes and dancing like David???
He's like "they do that wrong too"
So I feel you on moving away from the church and religion but I'm still rocking with Yahweh. The black church has been a pacifier for blacks for centuries now. It's not completely useless but not even close to Father's idea of... "church" they rely too heavily on belief and don't realize faith comes from EVIDENCE😊
Maaaann I haven’t finished this video yet but I just had a conversation on this topic a few days ago.
Due to a lack of a church home, our church has been like a group of vagabond gypsies going from meeting inside of two large churches that belonged to other congregations, to meetin g inside an old movie theater, not once, but now twice because we loss the last church due to a sale. It's ridiculous! We can't get enough members to even rent a decent meeting room at a school or hotel. I think this is one manifestation of the sliding downfall of the black American Christian church culture.
I feel deep.down your love for the word remains intact but christendom as we know it throws you off.
Let me know if I am on point Mr Solomon
I feel a real hunger for God in you but an extreme displeasure for church culture but the spark is there.
you’re not. lol.
Hey Joseph, you did a cover for defender on your old channel a couple years back and I really loved it and think about it often. It’s probably a long shot but is there any way that I could somehow listen to that again? I hope everything is going well for you. Much love
Mmm it’s rare a video captures my thoughts in the moment. Black church culture is full of black PEOPLE, and that’s why I love it 😂 But the other elements are troubling and actually push me away from God.
Having my own relationship with God made me question the culture and how close it was to God’s original intent. Additionally the commentary on apologetics is so real. I went through an apologetics phase, mainly to unpack my theology. I wasn’t a Faith defender, just wanted clarity on some theological points. And it felt a little anti-black being with those white theologians who couldn’t affirm the intersection of black experiences and justice that’s key to the gospel lol.
So now I’m just here I guess. I go to church, love the people, not necessarily the ideology. I’m kinda done with apologetics for now, as Faith is experiential not intellectual. That’s a pride issue. I can’t (and won’t) turn my brain off, but my belief/experience of God keeps me in the church and loving him.
And maybe that’s the point. Our experience on earth is kinda trash, but it has some good moments. Ready to see the King in eternity to experience what he designed for us to enjoy ❤
White face is hilarious 😆 I am appreciative of black church culture…skipping to my neighborhood church with ruffle socks, black patent leather shoes, a poofy dress, and wearing my hair in a pony tail with a big poofy bang is vivid in my mind, a happy healthy memory.
I love ❤ you Bro. No matter what. I’m here for it.
I live in Europe, I am white, but Christian and believer. But I can really respect how black people worship God, Jesus. Listening to gospel is an uplifting feeling. I like worship music so much. i think black people are closest to God and Jesus. By the way, has anyone ever asked black people if they like being called black? Because I think their skin has a million beautiful shades of brown. That's what I think. God Bless You Joseph! I really like your personality. 😇🥰
it was black american people who popularized the use of the word “black”.
@@flightsfeelings Oh I see. Thanks for your answer 🙏🏻
just like you said. Fred Hammond is just good music! You dont have to be a believer to enjoy good music. Thats how I feel about you. I just adore you and enjoy your content. The believer Joe, the Unbeliever Joe. I enjoyed the former and am enjoying the latter. No one takes your gifts. Even in Christianity we believe God doesn't take back gifts.
Sadly you were never a Christian, Joseph but an apostate and like the millions of others who walked away from Christ. "They went out from us..." Apostle John writes. More on Apostates by John MacArthur, "An apostate can be bred only in the brilliant light of proximity to Christ. Apostates are not made in the absence, but in the presence, of Christ. They are bred almost without exception within the church, in the very midst of God’s people. It is possible for a person to read the Bible on his own, to see the gospel clearly, and then reject it-apart from direct association with Christians. But by and large, apostates come from within the church.
Eventually, sometimes even after years of pretense and self-deception, the unbeliever who acts like a believer finally falls away. He gives up, loses interest, and goes his own way. He returns to sinning willfully, with no more regard for the Lord’s way or the Lord’s people. To know God’s way, to study about it and hear about it, to identify with believers, and then turn away is to become apostate. The process of falling away may be gradual, but at some point a conscious decision is made to leave the way of God, and reject the saving grace of the Lord Jesus Christ."
yeah i haven’t heard this before. you’re so smart and original lol john macarthur aided and abetted and abided an abuser in his church for years. i don’t need morality lessons from him.
I’m become aware of the importance of knowing the truth about the Bible. And the way religion has been used to manipulate people around the world. The truth will set your spirit free and allow you to know how to move forward in the world full of spiritual beings. I thank Black Jesus Christ, God and the Lord. 💜
Hello. Great video. What microphone are you using please?
sennheiser mkh 416
@@flightsfeelings YAY😁👈🏾
Finally found a mic I like.
Thank you.
I love your mind, Joe. It challenges me
Hey joseph,
do you still believe in the existence of God and Jesus?
I understand the role of not wanting to believe in the church system and religion but thats different than believing in who created us?
i have other videos i’ve posted about that on this channel.
for sure man.
Just want to say,
don't know if you chose not to believe anymore,
But,
If I choose to not believe in gravity, it doesn't mean its not real. I cant see it or touch it but I have to believe its there because that's the truth
so.. what if God is real and the God who made us is the one who sent Jesus,
When you die, you will have to answer to him,
I don't want to face death knowing hey, I know the truth but I choose not to believe@@flightsfeelings
your reply addresses no concerns of mine. if you were genuinely curious on my stance, you’d check out the other videos and have thoughtful responses to specific thought processes of mine. otherwise, offering generic assumptions does nothing for the conversation.
sorry if i came off that way, and yeah..i can see that. my bad, take care man@@flightsfeelings
@@TimandLauren thanks for replying and understanding. hope you're well.
Great video. My issue with any Christian that has issue with you practicing and enjoying black Christian culture is they are too comfortable pushing people away rather than spreading love. Like a child that doesn’t want you to play with their toys because you’ve expressed your beliefs. It’s supposed to be about evangelism not gatekeeping. If anything it’s great that you still feel connected to gospel and I feel still a chance you can reconnect with God. Thank you for being so transparent ❤
I missed this content, and missed you!
Please ✋🏿😂 the mimes one is real! What was that???
This is sooooo relevant!
Extremely tickled by your mime rant.
I could send you pictures of myself (a white dude) miming to worship music on a downtown corner in 2006… just to claim my points! 😂 There was this group called Action Impact Ministries that came to our church and did workshops to train us to evangelize in different creative means. Even at the time, I remember not being 100% down with it but good memories for sure!
These videos mean a lot to me! I hope you upload more regularly.
😂😂😂
Lobster and shrimp towers gonna work on your favor is hilarious 😂😂
😂😂😂
unrelated to the video but do you have an id on that shirt? looks fire
I really apprecilove this i still some of the song that relate to me I moved away from the church is not that I moved away from the God in me yes I sing that song too that victory belong to me I don't sing victory belong to Jesus it belongs to me.
I moved away from the religious psychosis we are spiritual beings having a human experience and remember our thoughts become our reality and words are powerful I am careful of what I say are think
We all know what's really going on here. Just let bro live his life! 🤷🏾♂️
Bro, it sounds like you tryna have "church" w/o having church lol respect family. the doors always open
well church, as described in this video, is broader than its theological assertions but also includes its cultural expressions. so yeah, i'm okay with appreciation cultural artifacts without needing to subscribe to its tenets. this is not uncommon for christians to do in the other direction, so i feel there should be no qualms. christians do yoga, despite it theological origins. celebrate christmas, listen to Christian hip hop, celebrate fourth of july. they engage in all kinds of cultural celebration without feeling the need to pledge some allegiance to its origins. so i don't think this is a farfetched idea, even for bible believing christians.
@@flightsfeelings respect bro! everyone has their unique journey, I respect yours. As a Christian, logically I'd want all, including you, to be "in the faith" so to speak. But I appreciate your thoughts, your honesty, and your videos. Keep it up! I'm glad you can appreciate some of the elements that may be familial.
@@AntGray13 I would like to ask you as a former black christian myself.. how do you view cultural holidays and christian rap, trunk or treats ext. ext.?
@@j.pipparker I don't particularly view cultural holidays in any particular way. As far as Christian rap I see it as an art form that infuses Christian content/elements similar to any other Christian music genre or artistic form. As far as trunk or treats I view it similar to other holidays. If there isn't anything ungodly in terms of glorifying death and gore I don't see much harm in it.
@@AntGray13 i appreciate you taking the time to answer.
I think there is a particular danger in idealizing cultural expression when it comes to Christianity. The unifying element of Christianity is belief that Christ is the Son of God & died for the sins of mankind. Songs, traditions, food, in group sayings, all of that is laid waste when we leave this earth. The only thing that will last in eternity is this: did you know & serve Christ. If so, then there is a bond created far beyond shared skin color or preferences in music style. Simply believing in Christ makes two different ppl, from opposite ends of this planet, a part of the same family, sharing the same Spirit, a part of the same Body. That’s outweighs music traditions every day of the week!!!!
I said all that to say this: I’m glad you have fond memories of the church & black Christian culture. But true Christians are not worried about this! I hope you find Jesus one day. I’m praying for you. ❤❤❤❤
it sounds like you didn’t really hear out the video or didn’t quite understand. there are “true christians” that are concerned about this, as seen in these comments. this sounds like a “no true scottsman fallacy”.
and christian or not, my point stands that the transporting of religion is virtually impossible without transporting culture, even if you’re unaware of it. christians who are concerned with knowing the difference between culture and gospel should be concerned with this. otherwise, they are at danger for falling for or propagating the same flaws of cultures before and around them. one christian could argue it IS a gospel issue, when certain cultures erase other cultures because of the commodification of faith. homogeny is a real threat to genuine expression of faith.
lastly, am not a christian, so obviously i’m going to make criticism from a non-christian standpoint.
Love this perspective
You don't want to live where nobody believe in the afterlife in the United States
uhh ok
So what has your faith evolved to now?
i have other videos i’ve posted about that on this channel.
you don’t have to hold onto what is killing you.
what is killing me?
@@flightsfeelings I suppose I should have provided context, but my response was more so towards the conflict feelings that people experience when deconstructing their faith. I left the church in 2019 to save my relationship with myself and God. There’s no going back.
mmmm. yeah i felt the same. i believe i want to create a distinction within myself on what is god and culture. not always easy.
what’s up cousin
Watch America the babylon daughter of the harlot parts 1&2 also X factor winner reveals world secret religeon. If you can
what does that have to do with the main topic of this video?
No WS religion, all that forgiveness, that holding black back. White Jesus com on
i’m not sure what you’re asking or saying.
Asking purely out of interest and curiosity.
You mentioned the dancing and praying and tongues and Pentecostal roots. Do you believe you were ever baptized in the Holy Spirit? How are you reconciling any ‘Spiritual encounters’?
Love you, Joe