Axle Truss vs Axle Sleeve
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- Опубліковано 8 бер 2020
- The debate rages on! Axle truss or axle sleeve! This is something I have seen debated quite a bit on Facebook groups and message boards. There is a big difference in the install time and the strength over all. In today's video I want to explore this subject and see if we can get to the bottom of this. If you disagree with me then feel free to tell me in the comments! Just don't be a dick about it lol.
Enjoy the video!
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#axletruss #axlesleeve #axle - Авто та транспорт
Just do both, we’re generally only talking about $100 extra for both versus just 1. We’ve all blown $100 on stupider things
matt williams so true 🤑
MischiefMakerTV holy cow! I got a reply from a celebrity :) or at least UA-cam famous :) same difference
@Midwest Jeeper
Only if you plan on jumping it.
I abused the shit out of my ol 30. Zero issues.
Inner sleeves can make rvc axle shafts not fit also.
I did both on my Rubicon. Evo manufacturing truss and Teraflex sleeves
Glad you broke off from BleepinJeep. Keep up the hard work!!
Thanks! Me too!
This channel is something I can trust when so much utube is garbage information. I'm sure once in a while your info can be incorrect but for the most part it's spot on. Your explanation of the info is a huge help in getting people who have questions to understand why you feel the way you do about a certain subject. It's more than appreciated to have a reliable source of info and is helpful in helping with what decisions have to be made on a certain build. I bought a JL and everything I've heard about your jeeps I've been able to translate for my JL when I've had a question. Thanks for the reliable information.
oh thank god I don't have to go through another forum post about this debate. Nate puts another fiery forum topic to bed :)
Lol I did my best! Time will tell
Dirt Lifestyle oh I’m sure haters gonna hate. Great info though!!
Being a toyota guy, I didn’t know that sleeving an axle was a thing. We only do truss/gusset kits due to the design of the axle and how easy it is. As always I’m learning something new on your channel. Keep it up!
Thanks! Sleeving is only a dana thing. Its lazy but it works sometimes lol
If you want to understand how it works, the term is “moment of inertia” and it explains why beams are made in an I shape.
That’s the “bigger” he’s talking about. You have to get the bass away from the center of the tube to get a big difference in strength
Sleeve and truss problem solved!
I like how you explain things.
Love these videos so much help with knowledge and confidence and the learning for me. Great video here.
This is one of my favorite type of videos. I'm a little bit new to this hobby and appreciate all the good information I can get. Of course, as with most things, there is more than one right way to do things.
I like the pros and cons in video and then the direction you choose...always giving options is very helpful. Thank you!!!
Thanks for your knowledge man, I love learning. I actually posted this question on a Facebook group page yesterday. You answered it in a much easier way to understand though. Thanks!
Thanks for your thoughts on this subject Nate, great informative video. We all know there are pros and cons to either one. It's up to the individual to decide which way they want to go.
I got a 02 wj that I'm playing with and this helps alot thanks. Keep keepin it real
Keep up the good work Nate! Love your channel and how you explain things....
Really been enjoying the new content. Used some of your tips on my most recent project. Keep up the good work
I literally was doing a search for this last night. Love the channel thanks for the info and great vids.
Good timing! Thanks for watching 👊
Good info!!! Starting a TJ "overhaul" this winter and love all the great info I've seen on your channel!! 👍👍 Keep up the awesome work!!
Great episode!! I chose pound in sleeve, went in pretty easy (no bent axle) and then trussed it as well for double support and protection.
I got a set of j10 axles i plan to throw under my 58 cj5 and i am planning on trussing them.
Awesome content you've been putting out. Hope to see you out on the trail someday!
Mate perfect timing on this one, starting a front diff rebuild this weekend and have been checking out both of this options! Cheers
@dirtlifestyle I did press in sleeves on my xj d30. I didnt realize that I had ordered JK sleeves until my inner axle seal popped out with a foot of sleeve sticking out of the axle. Fortunately I was able to beat it out from the other side with a long poll and cut it down...Measure before you go slamming them into your axles.
I went with both. Burning in the sleeves before welding the truss on didn’t add much fabrication time and just made sense as my end goal was to bulletproof the front d44 on my 2011 jku.
Seen a couple 2by tip to tip sleeves (double sleeved: inner and outer) in my Baja days.. They seemed pretty tough. Thats another alternative as one other poster noted. I'd personally truss everything but a 14bolt... rear. I think I'd add a bumper/bottom truss of sorts to one if fabbed into a front 14b for rock sliding and impacts. Been pondering doing one of those for a while.
Good Stuff Man. Enjoy the channel and the knowledge you share. Saw you at the 4x4 swap meet over the weekend in the 4wheel parts vendor area.
Another great video. Your tips and topics are always 🔥 .
Thank you!
Always great videos!
I’d love to see somemore about that top and side truss you showed off
Love the vids man, keep it up!
It may help if you think os a 2x4"length of wood - it's much stronger on edge than flat. same amount of wood, but the shape makes it stronger.
Personally, I would recommend the truss as a sleeve does nothing to strengthen the critical area of the housing where the tube enters - and a skid plate can be incorporated into the design.
good video Nate, answeres all the questions to ask .thank you.
Thanks!
Id love to see you make that backbone for the rear axle, the winch points you welded on there are a nice touch too btw
Another great video Nate thank you! 😎
Awesome info, will actually help me out soon. Thx
Nate, love your videos, great info, technique and production. Very much appreciated. Do you have any detailed info on the axle build from scratch? Blog, video, forum post? I'm thinking in doing the same and need to research this as much as possible. Thanks.
Just when I think I know a decent amount about off roading, you tell me there's something called an axle sleeve 😅 great job as always sir! I always enjoy some quality education 👍
Great video Nate! You explain things very well and easy to understand. I don't have the skills you do to truss/sleve my D30 myself so I would rely on a shop to do it. For the parts/labor costs wouldn't it make more sense to go Prorock 44 as opposed to reinforcing the 30? Or would aftermarket options need to be reinforced too eventually? I don't plan on going bigger than 35's so I assume it would also depend on how crazy you want to go with tire/wheel size. Love the channel :)
Thanks Nate from a Battle Ground, WA wheeler. I really appreciate your sharing of so much information. No BS and presented in a way most of us can understand.
I saw you at KOH but did not stop to talk. Are you going to be at EJS this year?
Thanks! Yep I will be there
Never seen or heard of sleeves before, very interesting
Pound for pound if you're going to do only one and your goal is to stop from bending an axle then Truss It 99% of the time.
Man I can tell you love those dimple dies, use them on everything. Very cool 😎
BTW when you're talking about how making it a bigger diameter without making it a thicker wall, the concept you're trying to get across is called the "area moment of inertia" of the axle. To calculate how much a beam would bend you need the stress (force) on it as well as it's area moment of inertia, meaning how much material there is and how far the material is from the bending axis. Sticking more material further away from the centerline of the axle means it resists bending better, even if you used the same amount of material. This is why I beams resist bending REALLY well even though they don't use that much material as other designs, they have a lot of material hanging really far away from the center line essentially. I would agree with you that trussing is a much better design if your concern is bending, then simply making the wall thicker.
Great videos! Making it intuitively understandable to the layman, just thought someone might be interested in the technical name for this and where it comes from.
Great info! Would you ever consider doing a video on the basics of custom fabing an axle housing from scratch?
Yep, but it needs to be something I'm already building. I want to build a full float 9" in the future 👍
Awesome man, good info! btw - the hat and shirt are top quality, very happy with both. Sticker was a little goofy, but it's on there! Peace!
Thanks buddy! I appreciate the support 👊
Good info, Nate! I love my truss!
I like the backbone truss on your 9" I've wanted to do the same with my TJ 44, but obviously the necessity of the rear cover makes that a lot more work. Yeah, polishing turds can be fun.
I'd say if you're going with a lightweight axle to begin with, like a D30 or (Jeep) D44, truss AND sleeve it. These axles need all the help they can get, especially if you're not running coilovers, since the area above the spring mounts can't be trussed (except for a spring-under config.), make sure it's as strong as possible in those areas too.
BTW, a big part of the reason 1-ton axles are so heavy is because the tubing thickness tends to be ~3/8 to 1/2".
I've seen trophy truck builders weld a section of backbone truss with captured nuts to a heavy steel diff cover. They french in round tubing to the sections of backbone truss that weld to the axle tubing. Allowing you to still be able to service your differential. Hope this helps you with building your backbone truss.
@@cespool Thank you, Brandon, that's exactly what I had in mind!
The main thing that I have found daunting about it (besides being broker than Nate's RCV axle) is that I figure I'll likely have to have the gasket mating surface milled flat again. Either that or spend a few evenings with a vise, flat file, and a straightedge.
@@LonersGuide have you toyed with the idea of treating it like it was a cylinder head? Look up cylinder head resurfacing at home. This may be a better solution for you. Plus it looks a whole lot faster.
@@cespool If you mean using sandpaper on a big block or table top, that probably would be a lot faster. Good suggestion--thanks!
Nate once again you are killing it with quality content.
I would like to toss you some ideas.
1) There are (or used to be) external weld on sleeve kits. These were pipe laser cut to fit around OEM brackets on production rigs such as the JK D44. These were around $230,and created a much stronger sleeve due to O.D. size increase wile gaining wall thickness.
2) If you weld on a truss wrong I.E. to much heat on one side vs the other you can tweak the axle.
3) I would advise you down load Fusion 360 from auto desk. It is a free CAD program that is very strong. I am sure you could use this for a lot of your builds especially brackets since you can draw them up, print them out to scale, and transfer that drawing to the steel you plan on using, or have them water jetted out via the DXF file.
4) Use said Fusion 360 to do some rudimentary axle 3d drawings, and run Finite Element analysis. These images produced by the software would add a level professionalism to a video such as this that is really not seen while explaining how the added strength, or deflection of said components. Pic = 1000 words!
Love the content, and the production quality is beast mode!
Cheers from Duvall,Wa
I wanted extra assurance, so I sleeved and trussed my front JKU Rubicon axle.
Nate! still loving the beats man. It just makes this video so much easier to watch.
Lol thanks brother!
Just finished Trussing and nitro sleeving (tight fit but it went all the way in) my JK 44 this weekend, hopefully it will help with the 37's
Now regearing it to 5.13
.
Weld in sleeves, top truss, back truss followed by a WOT "Send It" 😁
Great info!
I plan to do both. I started with the sleeve just because it's easier.
Thanks , im building a 30 hp like the one u did i will led you know how it go
sleeves don't do anything but keep your tube from getting dented. A truss is there to prevent bending.
Never thought to participate at the yearly ultimate adventure? You have all the knowledge to make it through it.
I would love to go on this trip but I hear it's almost impossible to get in!
@@DirtLifestyle Not impossible. You've made it this far in the sport and there's no reason you couldn't do it. You have the skills just need the want...
Any kind of estimates on how much weight that added (haven’t watched the video yet so not sure if you covered that or not).
Love your content, glad we’ve been able to talk.
Your editing and level of cinematic effects is impressive.
Glad you’re FULL TIME NOW.
Thanks! I'm not sure on added weight. The ford 9" in the thumb nail is extremely lightweight. I built the housing and truss out of 3/16. I bet without gears and shafts its 100 lbs.
Dirt Lifestyle oh cool, DM’d you as well. That’s not bad at all.
Truss all day, I've seen to many horror stories about guys running sleeves that "weld" to the shaft after install when under load.
Stupid question, and maybe you cover this as well later too, but what if you sleeve you’re axles and truss them, wouldn’t that be double the strength, or at least quite a bit more? Love how you explain this stuff. Normally we let the experts just handle this for us, but good to learn a bit 👌
The truss make the axle so much stronger you dont need both. These are made up numbers but think of it like the truss adds 400% strength and the sleeve adds 20%. The difference really is that dramatic
Another good video,greetings from Poland,cheers
I like the handles you can use to carry the axle around with. Or, tie your rig down.
Very well explained 👍
Good explanation Nate. I think arguing sleeve vs truss is a Jeep thing, as I have never heard anyone try and say a sleeve was better. There is a reason when building roll cage and chassis that engineers use larger diameter tubes at the same thickness when they need a stronger design. Thicker walled tubing is more resistant to dents, but only marginally more resistant to bending. Personally I think sleeving is a waste of time for the marginal amount of strength gained for how much work is involved. A truss also has the benefit of creating mounting mounts on the axle for different types of link suspension.
Absolutely 👊
So I'm just getting an hp 30(new to me) trussed after discussing it with Josh @ S.F.F. Customs. It's also getting an ox locker. Biggest tire size will be 37s but most likely 35s. The rear is getting an 8.8. I have to paint them myself 🤣... $3,480. Thanks to you and yours for making all the videos that have helped to inform me of what I should do with limited funds and a desire to have a slightly less wimpy tj to go wheeling with my son/daughter/wife in. I've been doing research on jeeps since I was 15 and bought my tj that I have now at 27. Funds never allowed for me to do much but I am older and I make more now. Especially combined with what my wife makes(we teach martial arts). Aaaand trump is president - our tax return was Yuuuge lol. I pray God blesses you. -Zach
To bad no video when you built that rear 9"axle. Look massive and sweet at the same time.
welding truss can also warp an axle very easily.
i was very careful while welding, but still warped my dana 30. then we chained to a steel table with a 30ton jack under it, applied force with the jack, made one little cut, and heated the bottom over and over while trying to rapid cool it in between heat cycles.... i think/hope we got it straightened out, just reinstalled it, haven't drove it yet. i guess i will find out soon
How did it turn out? What kinda welder you use? Im a noob to welding, mostly messed with stick, but i imagine you go from side to side a little bead at a time, same idea as tightenening cover bolts or head bolts. I wonder if the problem is welding a truss only on the top side of axle, i imagine a low pro wraparound truss would be easiest to avoid warpage, since you could weld a small bead on top then bottom immediatly before 1st weld cools, i imagine it would cancel out any warpage.
Which is why I always do both.
Just trussed my hp30 and 8.25 plenty beefy with the trusses only
Just note that people do bent jk housings when adding trusses..... at least sometimes. I know of 2 and I don’t know that many people. I’ve also seen a couple Jk’s with trusses smash the oil pan so it does limit up travel...
I still say buy a Currie or dynatrac housing, thicker and larger diameter tubes and better c’s along with added caster so you can drive the thing.
Just my 2c. That 9 housing looks beefy. I’ve always liked 9’s. That extra support bearing on the pinion matters.
100% agree . carbon off road builds rock jock 44 & 60's ready to go .
Would sleeving my dana 30 before installing a trust prevent warp from welding? I imagine so but still curious
Vincent Carriere just be careful with the heat. Do short welds and move around a lot. Don’t weld long beads in one area.
Thanks bro!
You should make a video on how to build your own axle like yours
I personally broke a Dana 60 center housing under my 1966 4x2 Chevrolet 3/4 ton. Stiff leaf spring, fire roads and early metallurgy contributed to its demise. For desert racing, rock "pogos" I would truss. Here in the pacific northwest for trail duty and mud, trusses get in the way.
Good info
Just thought I would give the engineering explanation as to why a larger diameter tube is stronger. The equation for bending stress is Moment*radius/moment of Inertia of the tube. The bending stress for a tube with an inner diameter of D1, outer diameter D2, and moment applied M is equal to (M*D2/2)/(pi/64*(D2^4-D1^4)). So if you have a larger outer diameter, there is less stress on the axle housing. This is also why the sleeves add strength. The inner diameter of the housing gets smaller which also reduces the stress on the housing. Hope this clarifies a bit!
I agree, truss for the win! Keep the vids coming. Thanks!
👊
Intro is sick 👌
Actually, a bottom truss is superior to a top truss in terms of resisting bending moments, however folks who do their offroading in 1st gear or lower don't want to sacrifice ground clearance. Welds are much stronger in tension than compression.
Just a question, are you saying it's easier to crush a weld than to pull it apart?
@ Yes
The way I see it is this.. you could have a very thick strong axle tube but it is still pivoting around the diff housing. The truss spreads the loads along the tube and into the diff housing? I think of it like a fence post on a windy day, would a buttress be stronger than a thicker fence post.. of course it would.
Great video! Question. Im trying learn on the fly as I make changes to my rig.
I have an 2005 LJ Rubicon with 4.5 long arm on 35’s. I just did my “first real wheeling” at Windrock and now i want more.
I want to go 37’s. Sounds like truss will be a good idea. Anything else ? Steering pump or box ? I have rockjock correctlync steering. I suspect im creating a new weak spot somewhere?
Your on track!....
I want your green J-10.
Its not fair to have two when some have none.
Communist!
great Channel. Regards from Germany
Thank you!
Moment of Inertia.
I have a JK44 that I am trussing, sleeving and wrapping. Likely be heavy but I am hoping it will be heavy duty. Should be lighter than a Dynatrac housing and will have cost me way less
What about outer axle sleeves? Technically makes the axle tube thicker as well as larger diameter right? I know not super common but something I've seen on one or two rigs and debated amongst my friends.
Outer sleeves aren't a bad move for the right rig but they still aren't near a strong as an axle truss. 👍
Do you think a front truss on a low pinion d44 could help with pinion deflection? Worth the effort? Metal and welding rod is cheap
Nate, would you recommend a Full Float 9" and why aren't they more common in Off-road?
good content
Great channel 👌🏻 how do you like your Maxxis Razr tires? I was gonna get a set of 37s but there are not many reviews out there.
He has a review video of them on his channel I believe.
Here is a link to my thoughts on the razrs 👍
ua-cam.com/video/fdOvdU-Iz2k/v-deo.html
Hi, what kind a welding rods recommend for cast iron to still trusts welding?
i have dana 30 jku with 35s 4.88 gears i do moderate wheeling could i get away with truss kit on dana 30 or should i get dana 44 later love your Chanel
Full-float locking hub conversion?
What’s the best way to weld a plug weld? I’m new to welding al
'99-'02 Ford F250/350 (and Excursions to '05) front axles are Dana 50s
Some are but not all 👍
can use a porta power to get a sleeve in, like a high tonage one...
That would probably work really well 👍
Is it possible to remove all the brackets on a 30 and then wrap the housing with a larger diameter pipe. Slicing it longways and then reweld it around the shaft.
What if you do both sleeve and then truss u can’t go wrong then correct ? The a stronger diff cover. ? I would like to do 513 on my jku Dana 30 can u hep with some advice also considering doing the truetrac also. Thank you. N
How about a pressed and welded sleeve?
agree...
Any chance on the song credit at the end? Rock the beat?