Flex Joints VS Heim Joints VS Bushings
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- Опубліковано 21 лип 2024
- I've had this question come up a lot. What joint should I get? Re-buildable Flex joints, Heim joints or bushings? There are good reasons to get each and good reasons not to. Selecting the correct rod end doesn't need to be a difficult process. Look at your needs and weigh the pros and cons of each joint. Done! I hope this video helps those of you that are on the fence. Enjoy the video!
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#offroad #4x4 #jeep - Авто та транспорт
Also some Flex Joints have Zerk fittings so they can be lubricated for a longer life span
Would like to see where you have them installed on various builds.
I’m my experience hiems at the axle connections and steering joints and flex joints at the frame side. Best of both worlds to me while reducing costs..
Dampening at the axle makes little to not difference other then wear and tear.
I was very happy to hear you say Hiems for steering period.. that’s the smart approach. That alone tells me your experience on building things. Steering should always always always be hiems.. I like control arms to be flex up top and hiems down low so when I drive in the street I don’t feel like it’s a trail only rig.
I think a video on rebuilding a flex joint could be a very interesting watch, I know I'd want to see it.
Couple notes. Great videos. I used rebuildable Rubicon express joints on the axle end of my 4 link. That didn’t work at all. The side loading literally melted the bushings, they were pushed out the side. Replaced with Johnny Joints, no issues. My new build has bent arms up front. Trying out the Poly Performance DDB bushings. Using them on the frame end with Johnny Joints on the axle end. Allows my bent arms to flex but always return to the desired neutral position. So far, so good. Went heim on all steering stuff. You should do a separate video on steering vs suspension links.
Lots of issues with steering stuff. Helms can wobble out, those 7/8” drill out kits for bigger tie rod ends are terrible, can create weak spots in your knuckle when drilled out. Rubber trac bar bushings always come loose. Crap like that, I know you have seen it
I try not to say anything negative about companies in the industry. That said, my experience with the Rubicon Express joints and bushings mirror yours exactly. Very unhappy with the quality of those joints.
2 years later and I still come back to this video when building rigs!
Awesome content
When you were talking about cost, I was thinking man they must be like 500 a piece if they are massive and rebuildable. Then I saw the price! Those are cheap! 50-100 bucks for a flex joint that’s insane plus how massive they are. My reasoning? Our heim joints aka rod ends for helicopter control surfaces are 180 a piece, and that’s for a rod end with 1/4 in bushing and 1/4-28 thread. Just wanted to share if anyone is interested of my astonishment. 😂
The price is very good for the performance! I've been using rebuildable flex joints for over a decade and have had great luck with them 👍
Absolutely love the knowledge you have been spewing!
Awesome video. Been running Currie joints on my Jeep for years. Flex joints are definitely the way to go
I’ve been looking at doing some custom control arms and couldn’t decide between the Heim or Johnny joint. This helped a lot!
Thanks for the tutorial! This basic stuff is helpful for a lot of people. The basics can make or break a project.
Newerish sub here. I would love to see a video where you walk through each of your rigs. With nice panned shots of all your suspension components. If this already exists id love to be pointed that way. Great video as it seems like you always have. Glad I found this channel.
Thanks! Once I finish my Jeep truck I can run through the suspension of each 👍
Wow, you brought up a lot of great points that I didn't know/haven't thought about! Thanks Nate, enjoyed this video as always
One thing to consider as well when thinking about Heim Joints is your location. They do not do well in areas where your driving the vehicle on salted roadway's.
I used A-1 heim joints for my sway bars and steering ends on my Eclipse GSX autocross car, they worked great and took up a bunch of the slop and body roll that the oem style rubber joints. I had gone full poly bushings at this point and damn did that car kick your butt just driving down the road, you could feel every crack in the road but when I wanted to turn it turned NOW.
Excellent info, Nate.. I'm building my Bronco, and the last thing you said about the flex joint,caught my attention..
'.....keeping your rig for 30yrs..' Flex joint it is!!!
I'm building a 3link kit for my xj and one for my son in laws xj I went with Re-buildable Flex joints for all the reasons you listed
This really helped think and rethink some aspects covered in this video.. Thanks Nate
Probably the best channel around, keep the content flowing Nate!
Much appreciated! Thanks!
OEM bonded rubber bushes are the best bet for a truck that also runs on the road, the poly bushes stretch when they flex and that allows dirt to get between the bush and the steel which wears the steel away and after a few years you need new arms.
As always, great video Nate! Great subject too.
When are you gonna get back to the low buck diesel truck love the vid bye the way
It's on the schedule. 👍
Dirt Lifestyle yay I’m exited and I can’t wait for the one ton swap to be done too
This!!!
He got too big for his bridges, he only works on high dollar sht now. Once you get to hipster, If it isn't a real jeep it isn't a jeep.
Nice little video, help people decide which way to go.
I think my Cherokee needs some of those enduro joints those are beefy. And if I screw up the links I have all that adjustability
They would pair well on your Cherokee build 👍
Should try the MetalCloak joints, combining a silentblock and a johnnyjoint, and rebuilable
I use these on a 7500lb van and they're the tits.
Me and my son love your watching you channel, keep up the good work!!!!
I’m doing some Johnny joints on my hard body for steering because I keep bending the tie rods this videos was honestly super helpful
You have a very cinematic eye. Aside from just great information, this video was really well put together.
Thank you! I put alot of effort into my content 👍
OH! Those joints... Cool. Cool. 😉😀🤣
Thank you, Nate. Excellent content. Great info. 👍👊
I am building raduis arms from the front of my Tj and I am using the Enduro Joints at the frame and axle. I am hoping for vibration control and flex so this should be the most perfect for my setup. Thanks for doing this video as it did help me finalize my build
Thank you .
I have a bush plane I have been building with swing arms utilizing air shocks. I believe I will put the Himes down at the spindle end, with bushings making the connection to the airframe. Although my gross it's only 1100 lb there are times when you have a harder Landing then you would like. Hopefully that will reduce a lot of the stress from the kinetic energy as well as the vibrations received from taxiing on dirt roads, or remote air strips the forest service has for access is to places where there are no roads.
Always some great information. Thanks
Joint videos 7 days early of 4-20....
Haha. Wrong UA-cam channel.
What are you talking about? It's the whole month!
🤣
🤣 nothing gets past this guy!
Well it is 4-20 all month technically since we're in the 4th month of 2020 lol.
Great video. Definitely answered some questions I had.👍🏽👍🏽
Still the only UA-camr that I'll sit and watch ads for. Awesome channel!
Thank you for the support! It means alot!
@@DirtLifestyle I am glad that you branched out on your channel. I don't think that you would have been able to do/build a lot of the stuff that you're doing now. At least, you may not have been able to do as much as you have thus far. Really enjoying your builds and your instruction style!
Thanks Nate. That is some good info.
Great info Nat...thanks
Great explanation. Clear and simple.
Right on time while I'm having vibrations on heim joint from the front track bar. Ordered Synergy duro flex bushing to replace the heim joint. The heim joint lasted 4 years with light off roading.
Nice!
Very interesting. I didn't even know what a flex joint was, so... Thanks!
Love your videos thanks for posting☺
Hi ....nice to inform us 👍
That's the informations I was looking for,thank you
I've been told that you shouldn't use heim or Johnny joints unless you also strengthen the control arm brackets. Something to do with the lack of shock deadening causes the hardened bolt to wallow out the softer frame steel. I don't know if you've seen this or not. I know many long travel kits for prerunner builds come with weld on brackets to beef up the A-arm bracket bolt holes on IFS.
I haven't heard this but I can understand why someone would make the statement 👍
I’m glad after a lot of research that I went with MetalCloak. Nice vid brah 🤙🏽🤙🏽🤙🏽🤙🏽🤙🏽
I'm excited to see you hit 100k very soon! God bless and hope you're enjoying the journey :) - Tom
Thank you! We hope to hit it soon! What an honor 👍
Great Video, lot of information short, precise and made easy to understand the difference. I have question, I live in UAE and we do a lot of due bashing much different than the offroading (rock crawling) done in the USA. What type of set up do you recommend for desert driving, do you recommend the same setup that you recommended for the overland vehicles with bushing at fixed end and forged curry joint at the adjustable end. If I may ask your opinion on core 4x4 tier 3 control arms or do you suggest anything better than that? Your feedback will be highly valuable.
This is great info. Thanks. I will say, as you have many times, check the laws where you are. heims are not allowed on steering where I am. I should add, for a registered rig which most have to be here because of the lack of open space.
Very good point. Local laws are important and should be checked 👍
Great topic.
I’d like to see you do a video on ram steering with those 60s you’re building.
I've been on Barnes site but sadly almost every item I look at is out of stock. I'm leaning towards Ballistic joints. Nice selection and it looks like they keep a good inventory in stock. Hate to need something and have to wait for who knows how long to get a replacement part.
Cool information 👍
Forgotten downside of the rebuildable (johnny joint style) joints, is the amount of angle you can get out of them... When you horizontally mount them, they bind very quickly as they only allow around 15 degrees or so of angular movement, whereas heim joints get you up in 35-45 degrees
Very good point. This can easily be engineered away with longer arms but I still should have brought this up. 👍
Dirt Lifestyle also ballistic fab makes rebuildable heims
I can't wait for the overlander control arm video. Where hopefully you show us how to determine angle and length when building the control arms for it.
Me too! I really want to start the suspension build. I'm still want to put together one overlanding trip before I tear it apart. 👍
This is unrelated to the video, but I've seen the Glue Tread external tubeless tire repair kit advertised on two different Dirt Lifestyle videos and I would be interested to see how it works out on a trail.
Lol interesting. We dont get to choose the adds unfortunately
@@DirtLifestyle I know you don't choose, but it is an interesting product for an emergency repair situation if it works.
Great tutorial!!
I just destroyed a set of Enduro joints. Def softer material inside. Non adjustability seems to be a huge downside in my opinion. . I opted for new links with large heims rather than an actual adjustable joint , after consideration like Nate mentioned
Any info on the pros and cons of using Heim joints vs ball joints in your steering? Drag Link and Tie-Rod.
Awesome thank you
Great info!
Thanks for making such a knowledge able video i want to know i have mazda rx8 i swap engine 1jz turbo and also relocate rackend and change steering as well. Its almost 2 inchs lower then orignal place can u plz suggest me which heim joint is best for me and give me proper turning angel as well
Good job man that explain the whole lot for a whole lot of keep up the goodwork you young guys got to keep this whole thing going the demon 62 and still off-roading Arizona desert rat
Ty, good to know.
Nate! keep up the great work.. I am loving this. What are your thought on lights for a weekend warrior/ daily driver truck?
I am here in florida and do hunting and camping (no rocks in FL only sand and mud). My 07 silverado needs more lights its all factory.
Thanks! I'm not much of a light guy. I dont follow the trends and I haven't taken the time to learn the difference in light quality. I really like the quality of the baja designs lights but I don't know enough about lighting to know how they compare to other brands
@@DirtLifestyle Thanks brother!
You should do a video on a kingpin vs Bj 60
Good video, miss the og intro though!
Flex joints ftw! I love those damn things!
I wish this was out a few days ago(edit, I guess I just didn't see it until it was recommended today... grrr)... I'm doing my upper control arm bushings(on the axle) and just ordered iron rock offroad flex joints. I think I made a good choice but I hope the vibration isn't too noticeable. I didn't think about vibration to be honest.
Glad your getting into the overlander crowd- we get older ant tired of sh breaking all the time so we go overlanding. Lol
Lol it's more family friendly as well. I'll still rock crawl with my buddies but I want to see beautiful places with my wife and kiddos 👍
More top quality content mate, nice nice 🤘
Thank you!
Where are you pricing your joints?
I found the Enduro to be the cheaper option by far compared to a quality heim ( FK JMX-16) of the same size. That heim runs about $75, plus you need to buy misalignment spacers, no spacers needed for the Enduro joint.
great stuff !!!! im glad we got that outta the way. lol !!!!
Great Info! Is a Dana 30 in a 2017 JKU a high pinion or not? Thanks.
Great video Nate. Maybe you should add a note to your next video regarding the quality of the rod ends on the market these days, i think you called em "Heim joints"? As I'm sure you're aware, there is some total shit on the market but at a very attractive price and people need to steer clear. For me, the first tell tale of a crap rod end is where you can see the two slots on one side where they fitted the ball in and then poured the bearing material in. I wouldn't hang my garden gate on those things!!
I have always tried to use the best quality I could afford, and as a rule of thumb.. if you can move the ball easily in your fingers when the rod end is new, it probably isn't good quality?
Good point. Quality is always important when your life depends on it 👍
The low buck j truck is in quarantine, had a cough the other day now it feels like a Land Rover is sitting on it chest.
Well done 👍🏽
seriously every time i have a question about something jeep or fabrication related you have either made a video about it or make one shortly after!
Nice! I'm happy it works out that way 🤘
Thanks For a new video
👊😁
What size do you recommend to make the steering bar with Heim?
EMF joints for the win!
Would you use a flew joint for a track bar or just stick with a hiem joint
Great information... would like to ask on something different... can you do a program that explains how to stretch out the wheel base front and rear of a Jeep. Also the width. Do you have to cut the frame to extend / stretch the wheel base or is it just a matter of suspension mods or both ? How can you do the stretch and use coilovers for wheel travel and make as little change to the vehicle height as possible. When I asked about making the width wider , can you do it with slightly wider differentials ? Plus, can you do this and keep the Jeep road worthy ?
I have a series about this that answers most of your questions. It's called the TJ stretch series. It is all very early work for me so pardon the quality but it contains some pretty good nuggets of information 👍
@@DirtLifestyle thank you and I appreciate all of your information and programs.
Great content
when you grease the rebuildable gold joints pudo you pump untill the grease starts to come out the sides ?
What about a combination of two different types of joints? Heim at one end and rebuildable joints at the other end.
I've often thought about this too Gary, as I've heard having a heim on both ends gives the maximum amount of vibration
Something like this might be a good idea if you put the rebuildable joint on the axle side. That one is more likely to see mud and water. It is also closer to the source of the vibration.
Personally I like the idea of pairing a heim on the frame side with a bushing on the axle side. I was looking at Metalcloak duroflex bushings for my control arms. The bushing will absorb all of the small vibrations and are easily serviceable and cheap. The heim on the frame side is strong and take up less room than a rebuildable joint.
If you do buy heim joints get ones from a reputable brands like Aurora, FK or NHBB. Three piece are the strongest. Look for teflon (PTFE) races. I was looking at using the FK RSMX12T
I’m doing half Heims, half Enduros on my LJ build
Nate - Ive been building a swing out tailgate and considered using heim joints for the hinges. Have you done similar or have any recommendations. Ive seen your video where you used ploy bushings, but im thinking of carrying about 125 lbs on it. Thoughts?
Both bushings and heims will easily support the weight requirements of a tire carrier 👍
I'm curious about what top you suggest thats a decent price. All the bowless tops I find are over 700$
Have you looked at our ever used Metalcloaks joint?
I'm firmilar but haven't used them. Lots of joints on the market!
What're your thoughts on the Teraflex IR bushings?
Nice job bud
Rock Krawler rebuildable joints are junk. I switched over to ruff stuff chromo heims. Good content as usual amigo 🤘🍻
Good to know!
Do you like your evolution chop saw? Or would you recommend something else?
This tool suprised the crap out of me. I am not aware of a better metal chop saw on the market
Nice and fair
what does the service kit cost compared to the heim joint or bushing, i find anything modern even if its touted as rebuildable the cost of parts quickly out strips the value of the item... why spend 30 minuts rebuilding a joint for 40$ and it may still not be 100% or theres risk of you misassembling it when you can get a new one ready to go for 55$.. idk the pricing on anything just throwing it out there.. i cant wait to have my shop build so i can start a rig build from scratch, i think ill be going independent suspension up front unsure about a solid axle or not in the rear
Can you do a video about how they fail? How do you know when a Heim joint is bad, etc?
Super simple actually. They should have Zero play. If there is any slop in the joint it needs replacement or servicing 👍
@@DirtLifestyle, that's easy enough! :)
Recently got double heim LCAs, got 100 miles on them. I think I’m gonna replace them with JJs.
What 14 bolt is the best to use 10.5 or 11.5
Hey Nate, so I picked up some upper and lower control arms for my TJ off Crazy List, I need to rebuild them but I have no idea what brand they are. Do you know of a way to determine the brand? OR Are the rebuild-able ends standardized? I thought about sending pics to the mfg that they closest resemble and asking but have not found a close enough match.
I would take them apart and look for markings. If that doesn't work I would send pictures to different manufacturers. There are no standard parts for these unfortunately
I assumed as much on the standardization. Already have one apart and cleaned, no markings. Pics already taken, guess I need to sens away LOL Thanks for the info
Hey nate! Buddy I'm wondering what you would consider a currie johnny joint would be considered a rebuildable flex joint like the 1 from Barnes 4x4??? Just curious. That's what i have on my trail rig.
JJs are the OG.
The Johnny joint is a rebuildable joint 👍