'I want ANSWERS!': 'Depth of MISERY' from Post Office scandal needs to be solved 'FAST'
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- Опубліковано 8 січ 2024
- 'What the docudrama did was show you the depth of the misery that was imposed by this injustice. Money, house, reputation, job - everything.'
Conservative, David Davis, says he 'wants answers' on the Post Office scandal.
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It's not £140,000,000 compensation because the bloodsucking barristers and legal teams have been paid over £150,000,000. As usual, the bloodsuckers get more than the aggrieved people.
However the Government thanks you and the other tax payers for paying the compo. Fujitsu and The Post Office are a little short of petty cash.
The lawyers fees should be seperate. Compensation should be a million plus for each conviction 20 years is a life time!
@@chrisfell5073 If should had any place in this entire debacle, but it doesn't. So the tax payers will pay for all of this. After all Fujitsu could stop the UK in its tracks.
I grew up in a small village in Somerset and so many villagers depended on the Post Office. Lillian and John had run it along side their shop for over 30 years before they retired a few years ago. They said they found being sub-postmasters a hassle and would have rather just ran the village shop. But they knew how much people depended on the post office so kept it going for the community.
The fact it has taken an ITV drama to bring attention to all of this is a disgrace.
How many disgraces just so happen to occur in our country?
We are run by weasels.
Note: ITV. Not the BBC. This drama would not have been shown by the BBC.
The disgrace is you having to pay the compo for the govt, why not Fujitsu and the post office?
Someone needs to sue the PO, Fujitsu and the government.
This scandal has been known about for years . And these spineless politicians all come out rabbiting on !
They now on push the blame on someone else alert.
The coordinated pantomime is extremely revealing.
The involvement of Fujitsu in this matter needs to be very carefully investigated, They designed, installed and maintained this system at the request of the post office and have clearly failed to ensure that it worked correctly. There is NO excuse for the failures and the system should have been shut down as soon as errors were found.
Now that would be the common sense thing to do and too easy. Obviously they don’t like either.
so where did the money go, if the money existed enough to be proved in Court as evidence fraud took place and it really existed what happened it it?
@@Daisy-tl2lh Likely treated as "normal money earned by Post Office" and spent already because Royal Mail has been operating at a loss.
The commissioning body must be responsible. We do not know what reports Fujitsu gave to PO nor what queries PO raised.
How very ODD & COINCEDENTAL that the 'outgoing' fugitsu CEO was the tory, gillian keegans husband....
700 postmasters start breaking the same law at the same time & eg not one policeman, MP or local paper crime reporter thinks this is an odd coincidence? All serving PMs since 1999 knew about this. All Post Office CEOs & senior execs, lawyers & PR staff knew too as did Fujitsu. Private Eye, BBC R4 reported on it but now the torys et al suddenly care? Vennels must fall... but she's not the only one. Her CBE was in 2019 - who was the PM then? What a tragic country - we have brexit, we reward Truss & imposed Smart Motorways & HS2 yet innocent people were pursued by the flipping post office. OMFG
The post office lied to the court by saying that only the sub postmaster could access the computer. So perjury then. Who is going to be prosecuted? Let's hope that there are no whitewash or scapegoats to any potential inquiry.
And conspiracy to pervert the course of justice.
White wash Happened 20 Years ago and still going on.
We Need to Back the Post Office Personnel Whom where Targeted.
Agree that would be pergery
Michael Taylor, Don't hold your breath, if the real culprits are ever charged it will go against generations of deception by governments and civil servants and in this case the Post Office , Fujitsu must take a massive share of the blame and forced to dig deep into their coffers to compensate the people they were directly involved with prosecuting. It is imperative that the guilty are identified and brought to justice with out fear or favour whoever they are . The sheer temerity of Mr Jenkins the architect of the system to demand immunity from prosecution in return for a testimony is staggering in it's impertinence, these people are an utter disgrace and hopefully will be locked up , but as I said that is unlikely so I will not hold my breath.
@@karlmylnere5712 fujitsu are only responsible for the faulty system and any fraudulent changes to live financial data, maybe lieing via helpdesk.
Post office performed and executed procecutions and violating thier own sub post masters
How is it that the judges didn't realise there was something so wrong with all of these prosecutions?
Clearly this is another example of complicity in the cover up of this appalling scandal.
The judges' responsibility is to interpret the law, weight in evidences and provide judgements accordingly.
They could have asked, but they're not experts in computer systems, so they have to rely on the "Testimonial Evidence" provided by "experts" in every court cases.
If the "experts" asserts there's no problem in the computer systems the judges have to take their words.
Judges cannot overturn these unless they have solid reason to suspect the evidence provided is fake. At best they can only try reduce the penalty according to the frames set by the law.
Contrary to judges, the prosecutors are on better position to question the unreasonable number of cases, and hold / drop the cases as they think it's appropriate.
I thought it was innocent until proven guilty. I can't think how the Post Office proved they had stolen money when they hadn't. If they blaming errors well thats not an offence.
@@ancietman Threaten them with charges of theft and prison even though there is no direct evidence of theft. Then offer them a plea bargain of false accounting if they plead guilty. They were terrified of prison and the expensive lawyers that the PO was employing. Bullied into pleading guilty and paying back the “missing” money.
Nothing can compensate for the pain, suffering, shame, mental stress and health decline of these decent sub postmasters.
Now watch all these MPs coming out to say they supported the Sub Postmaster campaign, Nah jumping on a Band wagon now it's starting to to leave town,,,Hypocrites all,,
Why does it take a docu-drama for action to be taken? Because we, the little people, don't count. Except on those occasional days that they need your vote. Today, however, the "great and the good" are being called to account. A rare and traumatic experience for most. And so, action will now be taken. Nothing would have happened had there been no docu-drama.
Wrong
Blair and team will still carry on with their global destruction.
A new court is desperately needed.
To be honest, Idont have faith that anything will be done anyway, that's the way corporations work, all talk and no action. That includes the government who are famous for white washing.
The fact that the post office hired an outside company called Second Sight to investigate. Found out that there were issues with the IT systems. And the post office dismissed it and then covered up
Andrew Bridgen MP also deserves acknowledgment for the work he has done on behalf of the victims of this scandal.
The director of public prosecutions during the post office scandal was Starmer, ( being as we all know 700 post masters charged at the same time is a public mis-justice ) we NOW need an urgent investigation to find out if Starmer knew about these cover-ups
I can hear the sound of doors slamming all around Westminster and Whitehall ....
Parliament in 1985 preserved right of RSPCA, Customs (till 2002), Post Office & others to conduct their own prosecutions.
It was the law, policy and procedure for the DPP not to interfere unless asked.
A Tory attorney general could have too.
More reason not to vote that man in next election. Hope many read your relevant comments.
@@alankiy2054 It's not "relevant". It's misinformation.
The post office way lying, it's all on them and the "special system" which allowed them to circumvent the legal system.
I have zero love for Starmer but if you're using this as an excuse to vote Tory you're on crack.
The government has known about this the whole time they've been in power and only now are doing something because of a TV show.
The Tories have utterly ruined this country and I'm a Conservative.
Still no mention of Blair and Keegan's hubbie involvement.
The fact this problem has been festering for 25 years, ignored by god knows how many DPP directors, Prime Ministers and journalists, is the real scandal.
Hello from Scotland, miscarriage of justice, does not cut it!!
Right across the UK, Postmasters and their families provide us with invaluable service and loyalty for decades. The fact that PO management and staff sold these people into agonising financial loss is absolutely astounding, not forgetting the pain of their personal loss.
PO, that organisation and all involved, must pay!!
Disgusted!!!
Sir Keir Starmer needs to explain why he did not intervene in the Horizon Post Office scandal when director of public prosecutions.
Sir Keir, held the position between 2008 and 2013 before moving into politics.
His time in the role overlapped part of the period in which Post Office branch managers were convicted because of the Horizon computer system showing that money was missing.
You need to gen up , before making a comment. 💩for brains 🔔end.....
They were private prosecutions nothing to do with the CPS.
@@priscillaroberts7945 The CPS has said that it prosecuted 11 cases that “involved evidence connected to Horizon” - three resulted in convictions while Sir Keir was in charge. THIS IS FACT!!
@@EdwardThatch-ee7yx i doubt it reached as high as the head of the whole thing any more than my crashing a works vehicle did the head of Unigate back in my milkwoman days. Have you any idea how many cases the CPS is involved with on a daily basis? The vast majority of cases were dealt with by the post office as private prosecutions
Fact.
Throughout my career I have found that there were 'gremlins' in all of the software that I have come across. I cannot believe that MP's and Post Office directors were not 'savvy' enough to consider that there might be an issue with the Horizon software. This needs a public enquiry and thorough investigation by someone with integrity.
It seems they had asked Fujitsu, and they said there's no bug in the software, and the auditors and prosecutors took their words.
@@chnet968 : GIGO
@@chnet968 Meanwhile Fujitsu have a back door into the system to fix problems. Both FJ and the PO swear in court that only the staff at the branch can change anything.
The enquiry is live on UA-cam .. very compelling watching. They squirm alot the investigators 😅
How much has the Post Office pix in commendation not the government or Fujitsu..
All compensations should comd from thd Post Office and Fujitsu profits because it was those two that caused the problem and persisted in prosecuting the sub-postmasters when they knew it was the Horison system that was at fault.
you keep sending parking fines with your faulty parking systems thou dont you im talking to you
it is a disgrace that it has taken a tv programme to get justice
What was Ed Davey and Kier Starmer doing at the time as being the ones in charge, along with Paula Vennels
Tony Blair should be the first as he knew and kept it secret. Blair's time in prison is long over due!
This was the best and most concise explanation I have seen of what happened. It seems clear now that the courts were given incorrect information, in other words someone or some people committed perjury. I hope the police will investigate. Did the defence lawyers ever ask the PO witnesses whether they were absolutely sure that no one other than the postmasters had access to the computer application? This needs tracking down, because all the witnesses who made that statement are going to say they didn't know, blah blah blah, but it seems to me that if they told the court this under oath then a demand should be made that they reveal *how they knew this for sure* and who in Futjitsu told them. Otherwise it's just going to be a scramble of people covering their backs, and if they lied before they will lie again. Does the silence of all those working for Futjitsu who knew the truth but failed to step forward amount to a crime? It should.
Given that the House of Commons is filled with lawyers, including Starmer, the public is owed an explanation of why such a tiny number got involved. The courts and MPs let us down - badly.
"This was the best and most concise explanation I have seen of what happened", seriously. So you never read anything that summaried this much detail about the issue before now?
IMHO this is the problem, that people did not read or take an interest in the issue as reported by Private Eye, BBC, Whistle Blowers, Computer Weekly etc... If people stayed even basically informed about everyday news items over the last decade they couldn't have failed to miss this story..... yet it took a TV Drama made about it for people to actually care enougth to pressure parliamant to act.
People who claim ignorance of this issue up until now are emblematic of the systemic problem we have as a society that we only react when embarrased into it and fail to stay informed about matters that do not directly affect us.
I have listened to MP's jump on the bandwagon looking for brownie points over this post Office scandal. This has been around for years and Ed Davey should be prosecuted. He is clearly incapable of management and allowed this to snowball. Fujitsu should be sued and every Post Office manager and Fujitsu manager at the time should be prosecuted
Thousands of sub post masters paid tens of thousands of pounds to the Post Office for erroneous 'shortfalls', which must amount to £ tens of millions.
Where has had that money gone???
PO Executive bonuses
Amazingly, as the drama revealed, it increased the profits of the P.O. and executives got larger bonuses as a result. It’s galling, but that’s what happened.
Disgusting legalised theft; so much for the fluffy public sector.@@alanmunch5779
The post office investigators also got bonuses for successful prosecutions and asset seizure.
@@seanknight2516 Shocking, but sadly it’s not surprising. No doubt they’ll argue they were just doing their jobs, but if they had any decency they’d come clean and pay back all their bonuses and fees. But I doubt that will happen. ‘Getting away with it’ and blaming others is now the norm. I truly hope this a turning point, however.
This catastrophe HAS to be treated , and dealt with in the BIGGER PICTURE!! What about the initial installation of the so-called HORIZON TECHNOLOGY!! Where the post masters were obviously told, “This technology will be groundbreaking!!! “ Yes, it broke the very living from these poor victims.
Good podcast on iPlayer about this from 2020. The great post office trial.
Why is DD wanting answers from a corrupt organisation in Fujitsu who have committed perjury and are evidenced as liars?
Compensation should be taken from a fine to Fujitsu and any contracts with them should be cancelled immediately.
These senior politicians - like David Davies - take the biscuit.
The government that they were influential members of was the sole shareholder of the Post Office & claim to have known nothing of the Post Office’s management of their sub-postmasters.
They are as usual lying through their teeth & must also be held accountable.
“Fast”? This has been dragging on for years…
That's what they do, if you have a piece of dirt and you kick it about for long enough it will eventually disappear.
How come 'experts' didn't see the problem years ago?
maybe people should note the problems of involving tech companies into state organisations who will have their own interests plus the lack of compentence in state organisations( you wonder why so many of the projects run into difficulties), and maybe everyone should be scruntinising the use of infosys with its possible conflict of interest...
Thank you ITV. The Biased B C would never have shown this.
The older I get, the more I despise lawyers.
And politicians of all parties.
The old standard of scandals was “ what would this look like on the front page of the local newspaper”. Now it’s “ how will this look if a docudrama is made of it”. Because it scurried more MPs into the house to debate it than any other media!
Now let's see a Docu Drama on excess deaths!!!!.
Why didn't starmer prosecute he was the head of the cps at the time.
Because the government of the day Tory s kept covering everything up
Private prosecutions do not fall into the remit of the cps
@@priscillaroberts7945
Over a 100 went to the cps and other bodies.
People sent to prison suicides lives ruined what was starmer doing seriously he was head of the cps and in the position to help the wrongly accused.
There was convictions under the cps starmer should be made to apologise and answer questions in my opinion.
@@priscillaroberts7945
While the post office itself prosecuted hundreds of post office operators based on faulty
Horizon IT system it has emerged from official reviews that at least 10 cases taken by the cps resulted in convictions 3 occurred while starmer was DPP however horizon said it was nearer a 100.
Vennells received large amounts of tax payers money to run the PO. She has demonstrated total incompetence and must pay all salary bonuses and pension back immediately.
Question my oppinion it's like an episode of traitors, even though the clues are unravelling and the thread's of evidence leed towards certain doors, things are being ignored? Question a big problem for me is why did the judge recuse himself? Question when was the last time this was done by a judge in this country? Question was it to stop the people being refunded fully? Question was the judge a member of a secret society or corporation just a question was he ?
My car's robust does not mean it won't develop a fault
d
David D, one of the very few worthy of his place in Parliament.
Trust Private Eye and not the media that have ignored the issue to concentrate on Meghan etc.
Firstly the many Post Office men and women be exonerated and recompensed very generously even receive a letter confirming their innocence. The next step in Justice is the conviction and sentencing of at least every person or minister who was linked to the failings including Fujitsu. Justice needs restitution of the innocent but also the conviction and punishment of the perpetrator’s. My fear is the guilty will walk. will any of them see the inside of a Jail or bank accounts emptied
This is a scandal but thames water also did me out of 200k after they said they were going to buy my house as it was one of the last couple of properties they needed for the abingdon res' project, i did the house up all ready to sell then they said no ,cost me everything.Even their agents were shocked by it
The S elec meters will be up next. Numbers have a mind of their own.
Even less interest in the vax injured. All very shameful!
This just shows that there were a lot of people NOT doing their job!
Post office management should have realised that it was exactly the same problem. Fujitsu should have said this still isn't working. Ministers should have asked for more questions.
Instead, they all lied, covered and ignored.
No Responsibility.
No Acccountability.
How about they repay all money they received for NOT doing their job being repayed to the public purse to go towards the compensation to those whose lives have been totally trashed.
And ALL HONORS RETURNED!
Fujitsu own the hackers and did not tell anyone what was going on!
It's the processed foods and breakdown of carbohydrates which turn into sugar in the diet which is the root cause of tooth decay.
Post Office Investigations branch have a terminal of the Police National Computer at their headquarters. I just checked and there are hundreds of non police organisations, including private security companies with access to the PNC.
Liars to save face. Shocking that people have died. Lets get rid of the rot and imprison all those who were had a hand in it
Many sub postmaster's were making up the totals with their own personal cash ? : (
No question. The MP incharge needs a jail sentence.
I hope the SPM's affected by the injustices are able to sue the CEO personally so that she is made to really answer for her incompetence and vile behaviour towards them.
Lot of hush money inbound. They don't want us to look under the bed.
Grow up
It's a bit late for that.
So now the UK Public are going to have to depend on a TV Doco/Drama to get any justice.
Where did the money go?
So she handed back her C.B.E, thats the cosmetic stuff over, now lets start on some proper compensation, recovery of funds, prosecuting Fujitsu and claiming damages, and scrutinising the actions of politicians, lawyers, and judges in and during these prosecutions.
The docudrama humanised it.
Who, in 1994/5, when the Post Office launched the Horizon pilot across 300 sub-postmasters, chose not to tell the Conservative Government that the Horizon program was full of errors? Was it so that, in 2024, the press and media would be able to blame the Fujitsu errors on the 1997-2010 Labour Govt.; as Fiona Bruce attempted to do on this week's Question Time.
What happened to the allegedly missing money? Was someone at Fujitsu siphoning it off. What the PO banking it to pay bonuses to officials for successfully prosecuting the sub-postmasters? Was there actual evidence of the sub-postmasters having embezzled monies from purchases they made or bank account records? Were they suddenly driving a high-end car like a Ferrari, or purchasing expensive jewellery, or buying additional properties, or suddenly paying off their long-standing mortgages etc. ? Lots of unanswered questions.
He is part of the problem. If there was no offence so how can you be prosecuted.
he says =? :I want answers,??? err no - he should be saying we society all want answers. and and the company should also have to pay heavy fines, along with ministers who failed to administer, . fine all company staffers that failed. fine them all and fine the justice system for its failures. no exceptions, no exemptions. charge the company for all fees and costs.
Has anyone ever told us where the repayments of the so called short falls went? Surely somewhere along the line, accounts wouldn't balance, there would be a surplus of income as their was never a shortfall in the individual Post Office daily takings or stock.
Are there any other postmasters and postmistresses who are being held accountable by this Horizon system? There’s more than 700 post offices in this country, so there must be more people who are being punished for doing their jobs and duty to the community !!
The very basics of IT security that IT staff have access to programs but NOT TO ACCESS LIVE data. That is basic IT security, ask anyway in the know.
No one steels then declares a loss and remortgage to replay it.. thieves hide their gains.
The husband of the current Westminster Education Sectary (Gillian Keegan) was the former CEO of Fujitsu.
Fujistsu is a central partner of Infosys, which is owned by Rishi Sunak's father in law.
Thoughts ?
My old boss, a Computer expert, had a saying " garbage in, gospel out".
Just view the difference in law between post office scandal and the SNPs position public money yet SNP
Politicians seem to be above prosecution two tier legal system additionally legal aid migrants receive this yet those that pay for it don't
where did the missing money go....
if the system says money is missing and it wasn't then where is the unaccounted cash now
Older American here. Doesn't the UK have IT people or companies that can develop & implement such types of programs. Why do you need to go to Japan for your programs?
If Fujitsu have got away with the Horizon system being faulty from the get go, what other faulty systems have they installed that may be causing similar issues in other industries? It sounds like any company with a complex Fujitsu-developed system needs to get an independent IT expert to review it (and particularly check if Fujitsu's support team have access to live data).
But... this is a news channel isn't it? This story as been reported (by others) for over 10 years, so why the sudden urgency? It's not like it's an election year and someone needs a vote magnet...
I think any records of remote access to the Horizon system will be long gone.
Does anyone know if the post masters ever had errors in their favour? Meaning there was excess cash when balancing the figures. If it was genuine bugs causing the errors there would credit errors as well.
Do we know where the money went?
What I dont understand is the following , the question has been asked about where the money has gone to but what I would like to know is where did the money come from that was supposed to have been missing.
There are post office civil servants who knew who was doing what, pure evil, somebody did something…and they should go to jail…for years and years… 3:32
Will the government need to purchase another Bibby Stockholm to house those people from Post Office and Fujitsu in the fraud cases that should take place in the future.
Disgracefull
All these MPs want answers,we'll the public want answers about all you corrupt mps
£5,000,000 each immediately then squabble about extras after.
watch the inquiry interview of Elaine Cottam day 81 this will show you everything about the po
In the 1970s, a computer software specialist in the banking sector, who worked with the SWIFT system, told me that programming regimens constantly required monitoring and adjusting. Even if they were working at that moment they could never be relied upon in perpetuity.
All those who allowed this injustice to happen and turned a blind eye to the events should now be brought to Justice, they must not be allowed to get away with their crime.
I can't believe the police and magistrates could not see thees people were innocent
So what are you going to do about the 'Child maintenance service' inflating the incomes of already paying parents. There is no recourse for that.
The post office computer system is still not totally reliable?
Of course there are bugs in systems BUT all systems MUST be operationally and 'soak' tested prior to release BUT once released an audit chain of all activities against that system must be available to resolve post-implementation issues as well as total backup / recovery processes implemented and tested.
Look into Fujitsu lobbying ministers
Funny how the grinch always benefits the designer….🤷♀️
Fujitsu is still making billions of pounds off the UK government and UK businesses. Even if Fujitsu is found to be at fault in this scandal no Fujitsu employees will be jailed. At best Fujitsu will be given a token fine and will continue to do business with the UK government.
Keir Staumer Keir Starmer does have to answer for his inaction. He could have started an investigation of the affair. It really didn't seem right that so many people were doing exactly the same thing. A professional investigation by Starmer's office might have prevented so many people from being prosecuted and even stopped a few suicides.
The Post Office were the prosecution. It would have been different if the Police were involved.
What about the HMRC Loan charge Scandal 10 suicides so far.
Lord Arbuthnot, Andrew Bridgen, David Davis all tried to do something. All members of the Conservative party. Let's not hear any more about the 'nasty party' eh!
This puts to bed that old saying ‘what can’t speak can’t lie’……….
Older American here. Not a good look for the UK’s legal system. Perception from the other side of the pond [US]. Considering the portrayed attitude / culture of those in positions of authority, in the UK, I'm not surprised at how this played out. Based only on what I've seen in videos & read in comments, coming from people in the UK, it seems that those in authoritative positions, regardless of the insignificance of their office, they function as if they have been given absolute, infallible powers from some all-powerful deity or royal source. Do not question my authority, I am the law, you are guilty until proven innocent. That’s just my perception.
it was CAPITA
And so do I. Oh, hang on, I thought you were castigating the 13 years of Conservative government and the Partygate scandal !!! 😂
So the system was released knowing that it contained bugs from day one.!!!!!!