a Mapuche myth says that all animals and humans were asleep when first created, and Ngenechen, the creator, started waking them up one by one but forgot humans (or was it on purpose? I don't know) so humans had to wake up on our own, and that is why animals know exactly what to do by instinct, but we need to figure out by ourselves how to live.
I'm from the Iroquois people (Haudenosaunee) and we tell the creation story slightly differently. First of all, she wasn't pushed down from the sky, she was pregnant and slipped through the hole. Also, there were many animals that tried and failed to reach the bottom of the ocean, and it was the otter that was able to collect the dirt.
I am Diné (Navajo). And I think a miss translation has occurred. A lot of time you will hear the term First Man, First Woman, and "Animal Name"-People. But it is important to note that these are defining deities/spirits; not Humans. At least, not in the way we know Humans today. Majority of the Creation Story the Diné tell is one of moving from "world" to "world"; in this case, more like "planes of existence", than, physical planets. And the beings that are moving from world to world are the deities/spirits. In fact, the emergence of Humans (as we know them) didn't appear until the Fourth World. In a short summary, First Man and First Woman emerged in the First World ("Dark World" misty and somewhat formless). First Man and First Woman are basically spirit-like; and heed the words of the Gods (Basically the spirits there before them). They meet each other and the concept of "togetherness" is established. The two also meet other beings there, the first air/spirit people and Coyote (possibly two, I am not sure). All of the populous get into heated debate with each other and the "Primal Gods" asked all of them to leave that world. There they leave in a hole in the sky above a tree. Into the Second World ("Blue World"); basically this is where all blue colored animals lived. After some relative calm and peace between the two populous, an Air/Spirit Person made a pass at one of the Blue Bird People and was told all of them had to go. They leave in a hole in the sky; via bridge made by First Man. The Third World ("Yellow World"), here we see major geographical interest. Many of the animal beings live here (like the regular animals we see today). It is important to note here that there is still no concept of a sun/moon, stars, or Humans still. During there time in Third World a ceremony was performed on First Man and First Woman (by the Gods) to make them "Human" and they were considered Married; I used the term "Human" but I think they basically demi gods made flesh. Later, All of the populous (including those that were there already) had to move to the Fourth World when "something" (I say something because i can't remember what it was) made one of the Primal Water God angry and the Third World began to fill with water. One of the newer deities brought a water reed and planted it. The populous "breathed" (prayed is what I was told) onto the reed and it began to grow massive (like a big tower). The populous hollowed it out and began to climb it into the Fourth World. The Fourth World ("White World" aka "Shimmering World"), here First Man and First Woman and all of the spirits/gods began to plan out the idea of "existence". This was in response to the concept of death emerging (when a spirit/populous returns to the Third World and having no way to go back to the Fourth World). They created the sun and moon, night and day, filled the world with drinkable water, and created the Four (Six depending on who you ask) Sacred Mountains. They had planned out the stars to be in an intricate pattern but the mischievous Coyote just threw them all into the sky. At some point, the Gods created the most Human-like being (but still demi god status) known as Changing Woman. First Man and First Woman adopted her. Changing Woman gave birth to the Monster Slaying Twins (Human but lesser demi god status). But it was Changing Woman who created the first Humans (you know! like you and me); but she created them out of a mixture of sweat, dirt, and dead skin cells. I explained all that pretty mildly. First Man and First Woman had many of the same experiences that a normal humans would go through just at different time and in different worlds. They were taught skills by Gods and other Animals; and in turn humans learn from their stories.
Not only is this informative and entertaining, but it gives me ideas for worldbuilding for roleplaying campaign settings. Anyone else do things like that?
aetherspoon that's what's up. I've been curious about the similarities of myths and legends around the world. This is great for that and to incorporate that into a campaign would be sweet.
I don't think that stereotype of Native Americans makes them look primitive. I think it makes them look better than other people. That stereotype is, to me at least, a good role model.
Good stereotypes can be just as pernicious as bad ones. "These people have such great spiritual harmony with the natural world. It would be a real shame for them to have to deal with messy, worldly affairs. (Which is to say, make their own decisions and control their own lives.)" Not that you're doing anything like that of course. Just a reminder that you've gotta keep your guard up. :)
Yeah, but I think this idea stems more from the view that "Primitive people are closer too earth and spirituality and are therefore nobler" (like for example in Rousseau's philosophy). The distinction between "primitive" and "civilized" is therefore already established in such a statement and can thus be harmful as primitive is a word with a bad connotation.
1987MartinT Perhaps to you it sounds good. But stereotypes are inherently problematic. If almost everyone you met expected you to be sensitive to the natural environment and deeply spiritual what would that mean? Would people take your scientific hypothesis less seriously, or assume that your legal actions performed to protect your land are based on ungrounded beliefs? It's not a helpful stereotype in today's world.
He was her husband. And she wasn't merely "sick", she was pregnant with twins. In some versions it is her father who throws her down to earth. In other versions she simply falls through the hole without being pushed.
I already adore this series, but the fact that you all took the time to address the potential for a "noble savage" interpretation of American traditions really shows how much of a thoughtful and thought provoking project you are all a part of. I can't wait for the next installment. Til the next time, don't forget to be awesome!
I love how people confuse the words primitive and stupid. Primitive people were not stupid, look on their surviving works and marvel at their achievements. While I am loathe to romanticize the past, we must remember that all we have built was built on the foundation of discovery and innovation stretching all the way back to early man.
I have never really known much about native Americans except from watching Pocahontas and now I'm really fascinated by their world view. also on a side note it looks like Thoth has become the series mascot somehow
Check out the film Dances With Wolves by Kevin Costner. It is actually a damn fine movie, an accurate portrayal of the Sioux peoples of the mid 19th-century, and certainly NOT a "white man saves the poor savages" story, like with the film Avatar (actually, the Sioux save the "white man" character from his own nihilism.) Other than that, there are plenty of videos on youtube about True American culture (Native American, to the layman) . . .
mrudula srivatsa the creation stories they have are very interesting, and very unique. Definitely worth looking into more! However, I have to say that the concept that the native Americans were living in total harmony with all other humans should not be considered fact. I say this because plenty of native Americans warred with each other, killed each other, fought for territory, glory, and goods. Just like all other humans have. It's one thing to have a belief, but another to follow it. I'm not saying they're savages or anything like that, just that they, like all humans killed each other.
You guys made some mistakes when retelling the Iroquois Creation Myth. (Tree grows more than just corn, every plant we used grew near the base of the tree, including squash, beans, tobacco, strawberries etc. Also it was the otter who was able to swim down the farthest, but aquiring the dirt cost the otter his life. The story is better if you're able to take the time to tell the story in full. I understand you have limitations like time constraints. But I liked the episode overall.
it's kinda the mythology you would expect of a hunter-gatherer group. many of the other ones you have mentioned are agrarian, people tame animals and put them to work, they gather seeds and plant them to make farms, agrarian societies are very much humans dominating nature and bending it to their will, making nature work for them so little surprise their creation myths follow a similar vein...gods building up the earth as humans would clay, sometimes literally building humans OUT of clay (the two that come to mind, judaism and some south american religion...aztec maybe? are very much an agrarian civilization) hunter gatherers however, of course they will think of the animals as having personality...they track them, they hunt them, they are familiar with their personalities...they know that a deer and a wolf and a bear will all act differently to humans, they know their habits and their movements. a hunter-gatherer tribe isn't dominating nature, they aren't bending nature to their will, they are taking from nature, they are part of nature, so it makes sense that in a hunter-gatherer group there would be a kind of idea of nature being along side humans instead of humans being above nature...
This is so cool! As a spiritual person myself, I believe humans were meant to be protectors, caretakers and nurturers of the earth and everything in it, including animals.
Primitive? Native Americans are like... the best. They're ahead of the game in life. We even used some of their sociatal structure in our layout for the American government.
I'm Native American myself but I just wanted to say the idea of a structure like government is pretty primitive. Why did we ever decide we needed some humans to rule over the rest of humans and have the codes to nuclear warheads and the like? 😬
Thought Bubble missed a chance to reveal that Cerberus/Kerberos possibly means spot. Meaning Hades/Hekate had named their 3 headed doggo Spot first. Talk about ancient memes.
Crystal Miller Not trying to be rude, but I’m pretty sure that Cerberus is the only way to spell it, seeing as it’s pronounced with an “s” sound. Also, I think it was Hades and Persephone, Hekate was the goddess of magic
In this day and age of excess, wouldn't people think of the Native Americans as the more enlightened ones? Living in harmony with nature and people seems to be the way the modern zeitgeist is taking us. But then, some people also deny global warming is manmade... c'est la vie.
The Native Americans did see humans as an equal part of nature as everything else, not on the top. And in that sense they indeed were more 'intelligent'. But they also had some customs that show that they could have been more intelligent (e.g. 'potlatch'). So yeah, nobody's perfect
Rarely are cultural beliefs form in full form from the beginning. The native people were there for thousands of years, it hard to say that they always acted in there more modern known way. Though a behavior to not promote over hunting makes sense in a culture where noted sources of food where lost though over hunting.
There is an issue with limiting your view of a people to a limited number of points. When you take for instance the American Indian view of nature and judge their whole society as more enlightened based on this one belief, you end up doing them and those your are comparing them to an injustice. 1. Yes they may have had a better view of nature at the time, however, this did not stop them from killing American Bison in huge numbers, large enough that the first pioneers across the plains would complain about the stench of rotting bison carcasses because Indians (despite modern belief) did not use every part of EVERY bison. Sure they may have used every part of it, but not out of every bison killed. Many plains Indians believed that Bison came from a lake up north and that they were an infinite food source. In fact, the plains Indians very well might have done the same thing white settlers did to the Bison if left to their own devices eventually, just not as quickly. 2. The view that they had no concept of land ownership. Well this is straight up wrong or misrepresented. Yes they did not believe in individual ownership of land. They were very much a communal society in that regard. However they did believe in tribal ownership. There is a reason that Indian tribes were very warlike and killed each other quite a lot. Europeans on the other hand had a belief in individual ownership of the land. There are many other ways in which we narrowmindedly look at our own and others' cultures. The above are just examples in which we do this with American Indians. You can then go into how certain tribal views and norms are projected onto all American Indian cultures and nations where the Hopi culture is very different from the Iroquois culture and so on.
It results curious for me how the european and middle east civilizations have a vision of themselves, at the time of their creation as better than any other being in the planet as god's favorites ones; only refering to the greek and judeo-christian cultural and teological conceptions of creation because they are the two most influencial in the western world. In their myths, both have special abilities granted by the gods that gives them control over the rest of the creation, but its curious how in the nativeamerican's myths (from U.S., excluding the Mesoamerican and Andine civilizations) the humans are portraited equal as the wild animals, they can't rule over them and they most keep the balanze in the nature. I think that happens because nativeamericans lacked of any kind of cattle or something similar; this is important because without cattle, the natives couldn't have developed any bigger and more complex civilization and thus a more complex mythological vision of themselves. Let's think in this way: a great civilization emerges from a well-developed urban complex with a big population and resources that could sustain that growing population, and for that you need two necessary resources: a nutritious and versatile vegetable (ex. wheate or corn) and livestock, the second one is more important because it helps to feed the people in winter or in times of bad harvest, and make them less dependent of the huntry and gathering as they have a renewable and stable resource of meat, leather and other products. That's the point I defend! The nativeamericans of North American have a more dependent view of themselves and the nature because they lacked of husbandry animals to make them completely independent of the hunting seasons, and that is shown when you contrast both mythological points of view. PD: I apologize if I have any mistakes in my grammar or spelling, I'm still learning English and I will accept any suggestions or advices to improve my dominion on it.
Thank you tedhascoldpants! Actually the Americas had a chance to be the same as Europe, with animal husbandry and all, but the extinction of the megafauna ruined all of that...just think about it: natives with horses and cows before Columbus arrived on 1492!
The main thing I'd take exception to is the statement that in the Americas, they "couldn't have developed any bigger and more complex civilization". They did; several of them in Mexico and Central America, for instance. They went in a somewhat different direction than the Eurasian civilizations, and the lack of access to resources like domesticated animals made that inevitable, but in the end, they overcame that obstacle. That the difference in the role of animals in mythology has some parallel in the different role of animals in society, is spot on, though.
That's an interesting thesis, but it's important to remember that the creation myth told in the video was just one of a large number of creation myths believed by different indigenous groups native to North America. Not all of the myths are so reliant on the help of other animals. Some focus on the sun as a creator deity (sun worshipers) and others are much more human-centric when telling of their people's origin. Many more use an amalgamation of animal/human deities, which is not particular to only native North American peoples, but also Egyptians, Aztecs, etc. Egyptians had cattle and other domesticated livestock, but still worshipped deities with the traits of wild animals and associations with natural forces. The Mayans, Incas and Aztecs had a very advanced and complex working civilization without any cattle at all, unless you count the Incas with their llamas :) Yahweh began as an air god among many other weather divinities during the time, and was later worshipped as Jehovah, the monotheistic version. Similarly, there is evidence that Tezcatlipoca, an Aztec god, was well on his way of becoming the dominant god of his people, before the arrival of the Spanish, and may have become to the Aztecs what Jehovah became to the Hebrews. But I imagine that the primary forces behind monotheism have to do with the political advantages, instead of a direct relationship with the existence or absence of husbandry.
I do think it’s important to also note that the special position granted to humans in the original creation, as part of the Abrahamic tradition, gives humans both a position of power and of responsibility... they are meant to act as agents of the Creator in managing the glorious creation... of course that relationship is symbiotic (I.e. the creation provides for them whilst they maintain the creation as a glorious dwelling place of the Creator) but by no means are they meant to destroy and defile the good creation of the Creator... abandoning their role of responsibility in favour of what they believed to be good or evil was, indeed, in part, what the snake tricked them into doing
I would say that in Christian belief, often rather than seeing nature as something that can be disposed of freely, many instead believe that since humans are placed over the Earth and must be good stewards of it by caring for nature and animals the best we can.
Emperor Emboar It is kind of sad that ideas like shalom and "priestly" care seem to have fallen off the radar in popular Christianity. He's right in saying that people have used the genesis account to justify essentially the opposite of what it meant to its original audience. The bible is perhaps even almost unique in that regard, in that it has a still-relevant ancient context in which its mythology, history, and other teaching has always been used and understood, and also a major and important use as the standard of the western, colonial world. The same myth, remodeled to suit a new worldview and understood very differently... a shame that I doubt that depth will ever be indicated in this series, leaving a casual viewer who might otherwise want to go deeper on their own no idea it was there, unlike the first nations myths in this episode (for example), which were clearly underexplored and prompt further investigation.
Emperor Emboar It is kind of sad that ideas like shalom and "priestly" care seem to have fallen off the radar in popular Christianity. He's right in saying that people have used the genesis account to justify essentially the opposite of what it evidently meant to its original audience, which is more as you described. The bible is perhaps even almost unique in that regard, in that it has a still-relevant ancient context in which its mythology, history, and other teaching has always been used and understood, and also a major and important use as the standard of the western, colonial world. The same myth, remodeled to suit a new worldview and understood very differently... a shame that I doubt that depth will ever be indicated in this series, leaving a casual viewer who might otherwise want to go deeper on their own no idea it was there, unlike the first nations myths in this episode (for example), which were clearly underexplored and prompt further investigation.
Twisted Tachyon All of these myths can be interpreted differently to get an equally valid meaning. For example, the Native American myth can show that animals are meant to serve humans as the animals did everything for the fallen girl. It just matters what the culture interprets it as meaning.
Hmm, but that still implies a dominance over nature (after all, it's hard to be a steward of something if you don't hold power over it. I could claim to be the steward of the president and it wouldn't mean much). I think the dominance vs harmony idea is the more important one here. Interesting point though.
Growing up in the Philippines - a Catholic dominant country - it was always taught to me that Genesis encouraged human beings to look after nature than dispose of them. In the Bible, human beings are called “shepherds of creation” and like Jesus the shepherd, are encouraged to look after and take care of nature. Human beings are of course, treated as above animals, but just like how Jesus is treated as above others by Christians does not negate the fact that he chose to use his power over others to teach kindness, mercy and forgiveness to enemies. In other words, when looking to Jesus as a role model, human beings are above animals in their intelligence and decision making, but that is exactly why we are given even more responsibility to use it for other living creatures.
I'm Ojibwe (we're neighbors/cousins to the Iroquois people) and in our story, it was a muskrat who dove to the bottom to collect soil. Really cool to hear about the different versions as well as learn more about the stories of native peoples from the Southwest! Yeah, in our tradition the Creator made all the animals first and we humans last, and we humans are called "the grandchildren" because we are young and rely on those who came before us (aka the Earth and the animals) to take care of us.
Would've help seeing when (on a timeline) the myths/religions came about, everything didn't start at year zero. Being created by people it would give an insight into peoples minds at that time.
I've heard a different version of the earth diver myth, There were sky people and the sky chiefs wife had a dream of digging up the great tree which was white, so the chief ordered everyone to dig it up. When that was done, the wife looked down the hole, and fell, but not before grabbing seeds from the tree to try to save herself. The animals of the water world saw this woman falling and a bird went and caught her. They placed her on the turtles back, and decided they must get the earth from the bottom of the ocean for the woman. Many tried, but all failed, except for the tiny muskrat who got the earth. The animals placed the muskrats paw on the turtles back, and from his back sprang land, and the woman dropped the seeds and the seeds created plants. That is also why turtles have markings on their backs. This story was in my English 10 Pearson Textbook.
I've always liked the animal-cooperative and animal-dominant myths; they tend to be better as stories than most other myths, in my opinion. There's also a few in some parts of Africa and Polynesia. (Are we looking at Anansi again? I think we might be.)
Currently studying ancient mythologies in uni in Australia and this course has been working really nicely with what I'm studying so far! I found the Native American message of harmony really interesting because the indigenous peoples of Australia have a very similar thing. Any given clan often shares an ancestor with one or several other species of animal, and therefore they see they animals as 'kin'. It doesn't stop them from hunting those animals for food -- hunting does exist in their creation stories -- but there are certain ways they go about it that afford more respect to their kin. There's also law about how much they can hunt, and when and where. I'm over-simplifying it in this comment, there's much more to it, but I found the similarities really interesting considering both groups are from different parts of the planet!
I think that the myths relation to animal depends on the way who thought them lived. Of course, people who have a relation of coexistence and dependence on animals, like hunter-gatherers, would have myths that insist on the respect of the hunted, as human learned quickly that being greedy and killing all the animal only lead to the loss of their food source. On the contrary, people that breed their animal, and thus decide their fate from birth to death for their own subsistence, would think of it as natural that they would try to explain this situation by giving stories naturalizing this relation.
He said the Native American belief might seem primitive, but the more hear about other creation stories, I find the biblical ones to be very primitive... I mean "Humans dominate the earth and animals and we do with them what we please" sounds to me much more like uncivilized human beings than trying to keep a balance between humans and nature.
Quem sou eu? Não é da sua conta I disagree. Religion demands faith. Myths do not. They are simply stories. It's just that religion often use myths to reaffirm faith, but mythology itself is not religion.
The creation stories differ for each nation. It is not just a toad that dives for some earth soil. The turtle is always common. Sometimes it is the Muskrat and Diver that dive for the soil. True, Native Americans have respect for animals as equals. For survival, animals took pity and willingly gave up their lives for us to survive. That's why nothing was wasted of the animal be it elk, deer, moose or Buffalo. FYI. Native American here.
This is my favourite course out of all. I think one important reason is because Mike speaks much slower than other speakers. Listening other courses just makes me anxious...
That native american story resonates with me. Not saying that I literally believe that's how it went down. But the take aways are the most applicable to the mentality I hope to see more of in this world.
Yeah, they just kind of started living in our barns/silos and we decided we liked having them there because they killed rats so we just kind of left them alone. They lost their fear of humans because of living alongside us like this, but they never came to *look up to* humans the way dogs did, as they weren't directly dependent on us until quite recently.
I think it's more like a symbiotic relationship. people feed the cats, and the cats let their pictures get taken in costumes and posted on the internet.
I was expecting to see angry Christians screaming in the comments of these series ! *Thankfully* they didn't its good having fun and nice conversations for once in a channel ... good Job Crash Course
Constantine115 Many of us Christians are actually watching this series. But when we come to these kinds of videos, it is to learn, not debate, though there are some points we disagree with which results with a few people getting offended. But we are all intellectuals here, regardless of beliefs. so we are to behave as so :)
What is your source for the iroquois creation myth? I know there are several versions, but I've never heard skywoman being sick. She's always already pregnant, and typically the geese catch her while she's falling, put on the turtle's back and the muskrats grab mud from the bottom of the ocean and spread it on the turtle's back to create turtle island.
I'd like to know too. I was going to make a similar comment but was reading to see if someone else noticed. I understand there are variations but most of the small details vary widely from what I have discussed with people or studied
Nicole Gomlak-Green I heard she fell, was not sick. Birds caught her. several animals including a beaver dived for the mud first but couldn't get to the mud at the center of the watery earth. the muskrat made it but didn't have enough air to make it back. she died in the effort to get the mud to the turtle's back for the sky woman. The skywoman walked on the mud spreading it further and further creating all of North America on the turtle's back. It was a certain turtle with 13 plates on his back and they match up with the 13 tetonic plates of North America.
Patricia Locatelli exactly. that's the same general idea of what I wrote down too. A important retelling of this story was written down and published under the title "earth graspers", because as she was falling through the hole, she grabbed seeds from the tree of life, and from that she planted corn, beans, squash, strawberries (and one version I read states potatoes as well). Also, she either falls down the hole herself, or her husband is there too and (sometimes) pushes her. So it's not some random guy. And then either she has a daughter who gets pregnant from something (the wind, I've heard) or she herself has the twins that 1 is evil and 1 is good and creates all the things in the world, good and bad. I've also heard that when skywoman dies her head gets thrown into the sky and becomes grandmother moon.
Patricia Locatelli And also, yes to her packing down the earth. we have a dance called the women's shuffle (eskanye) and in addition to using our feet to pack down the earth, we move our arms as of were throwing seeds. The dance is skywoman's dance.
That is so awesome. I've never seen the dance but I have heard the story from a few different storytellers and most of the details were the same. The ones I heard it was the daughter of the original skywoman that has the twins Good and Evil. I do remember them tending the plants she brought with her. Nowhere in the stories I remember were the animals unhappy or tired about helping the skywoman. They were very compassionate
My mom used to tell me the story of spider-lady, I've never heard her referred to as spider grandmother. But in Hopi culture elders you are related to are considered like grandparents.
When you say "Dogs were among the first, if not the first domesticated animals," you REALLY understate it. The domestication of dogs predates the domestication of *anything else* by *tens of thousands of years.* The gap between the domestication of dogs and the domestication of the next animal to be domesticated is *longer than humans have had agriculture.* Also cats domesticated themselves in an even less direct way - after we started farming, rats started to infest our storage sites. Cats like to eat rats, so they moved in as well. Since the cats didn't pose a threat and helped with the pests, we just let them stick around. Hence why cats like humans but don't really obey them - they lost their fear of humans from living in such close proximity, but they were never *directly dependent* on us the way dogs were until quite recently.
jailer stik vilar serge There is a book called "At the Woods Edge" that is a collection of traditional stories from Natives in the north east area of the US & Eastern Canada. Besides that you would need to look for an elder in one of the communities and ask them about the stories if you can.
Later Biblical text says God cares for the animals and plants and is aware of one sparrow that falls from the sky. I think there is a much bigger view of God's care that is expressed in the biblical text that many human-centered views overlook.
In Navajo Creation humans were kind of late comers, and in an interesting twist the animals used to live in settlements and spoke language like people. But they were so off-put by humans they went into the wilderness and have stopped speaking to us since. That was one of my grandmother's stories, so interesting when compared to Christianity I think. The two views of the world and nature are so different.
Made it just in time before comment smack downs start. Cats are also one of the oldest but not tamed pets. Cats like to do their thing and were great for disease control.
Interesting. I wonder why the American Indians have such a different tradition than the Biblical one? I'm guessing it has to do with the fact that they weren't into herding like the writers of the Old Testament. Because the ancient Hebrews kept animals and used them for work, they developed a sense of domination.
The funny thing is that toxoplasmosis doesn't make humans ill, it simply reproduces asexually in humans, then goes on to infect more cats and make them ill.
Should've given us the names of some of the animals in Hebrew, considering that was the language the Bible was written in, and Adam and Eve supposedly spoke it. It would've just been a cool tidbit to add in.
"...written in Greek." Er, citation needed. I'm 100% sure that the Old Testament was written in Hebrew, and I could probably find many articles proving so.
CodeKillerz then don't be 100% sure without citing sources yourself. Mine are the Spetuagint aka the source for the Old Testament and the New Testament originally written in Greek and partially in Aramaic, both comprising the Bible.
You don't have a cat. A cat has you. Who feeds whom? Who disposes of whose wastes? Who works to make money to buy toys to entertain whom? When a cat gets a job to pay my ISP bills, then I might think that I have a cat.
CrashCourse, they're better an episode on the Judeo-Christian Devil (Lucifer/Helel/Satan) or any destructive "prime evil" deity/being in mythology and/or religion! No seriously, plz
I'm reasonably sure they'll be covering apocalyptic stories, underworlds, and other destructive forces later on. Even in the title splash sequence, they show the Norse pantheon with Jormungandr (the giant world serpent who battles Thor to mutual destruction) and Fenrir (the giant wolf who bit off Tyr's hand and slain Odin after breaking free from the Aesir's captivity), who were both big parts of the Ragnarok story. Seeing as Loki and Lucifer play somewhat similar antagonistic roles in their respective pantheons, I'm curious if they'll be featured in an episode together.
That's really interesting! I'm not a religious fellow myself but I do respect it, but sometimes the differences between Christianity and Judaism aren't so clear cut to me. It's really interesting to hear that perspective, thanks!
proudwonk . you need to read it in your mother languages. there is hundreds of translations available online. if your mother tongue is English, read it in English. and also there is interpretation of it in all languages. Contact me in my facebook: Imane Ennabihi
proudwonk Not at all you have at leas uderstand the Quran's meaning. it is so easy for you. just try again, you are going to fully understand any question yoy have in your mind. Believe me, you will lose any thing.
This series spends way too much time on the Judeo-Christian mythology. From @2:38 to @4:30 is all Judeo-Christian - then 1 minute on the Hopi, a minute and a half on the Iroquois, then a general overview of the roles of animals in many Native American tales. Most of the audience already has a superficial knowledge of the Judeo-Christian myths, although they aren't aware of the numerous contradictions within the Judeo-Christian myths (which many people attempt to parade as 'factual').
I don't understand this attitude of thinking such societies are "primitive" like people who work with nature rather than precieve themselves as above it are somehow lesser or stupid I think that if people were more like the native people of North America the world would be a more peaceful better society that isn't destroying the very planet they live on and in fact need to survive
Freek De Jonghe what could we have achieved instead? Do we measure success by trips to the moon or by the continued perseveration of the conditions needed for life on Earth? I don't think it's that simple. These are two different kinds of intelligence, both of them have pros and cons.
u guys should have a classical music playlist !!!! like talk about the periods and movements, notable contributions like "why was beethoven famous" etc 😛
a Mapuche myth says that all animals and humans were asleep when first created, and Ngenechen, the creator, started waking them up one by one but forgot humans (or was it on purpose? I don't know) so humans had to wake up on our own, and that is why animals know exactly what to do by instinct, but we need to figure out by ourselves how to live.
I'm from the Iroquois people (Haudenosaunee) and we tell the creation story slightly differently.
First of all, she wasn't pushed down from the sky, she was pregnant and slipped through the hole. Also, there were many animals that tried and failed to reach the bottom of the ocean, and it was the otter that was able to collect the dirt.
I am Diné (Navajo). And I think a miss translation has occurred. A lot of time you will hear the term First Man, First Woman, and "Animal Name"-People. But it is important to note that these are defining deities/spirits; not Humans. At least, not in the way we know Humans today.
Majority of the Creation Story the Diné tell is one of moving from "world" to "world"; in this case, more like "planes of existence", than, physical planets. And the beings that are moving from world to world are the deities/spirits. In fact, the emergence of Humans (as we know them) didn't appear until the Fourth World.
In a short summary, First Man and First Woman emerged in the First World ("Dark World" misty and somewhat formless). First Man and First Woman are basically spirit-like; and heed the words of the Gods (Basically the spirits there before them). They meet each other and the concept of "togetherness" is established. The two also meet other beings there, the first air/spirit people and Coyote (possibly two, I am not sure). All of the populous get into heated debate with each other and the "Primal Gods" asked all of them to leave that world. There they leave in a hole in the sky above a tree.
Into the Second World ("Blue World"); basically this is where all blue colored animals lived. After some relative calm and peace between the two populous, an Air/Spirit Person made a pass at one of the Blue Bird People and was told all of them had to go. They leave in a hole in the sky; via bridge made by First Man.
The Third World ("Yellow World"), here we see major geographical interest. Many of the animal beings live here (like the regular animals we see today). It is important to note here that there is still no concept of a sun/moon, stars, or Humans still. During there time in Third World a ceremony was performed on First Man and First Woman (by the Gods) to make them "Human" and they were considered Married; I used the term "Human" but I think they basically demi gods made flesh. Later, All of the populous (including those that were there already) had to move to the Fourth World when "something" (I say something because i can't remember what it was) made one of the Primal Water God angry and the Third World began to fill with water. One of the newer deities brought a water reed and planted it. The populous "breathed" (prayed is what I was told) onto the reed and it began to grow massive (like a big tower). The populous hollowed it out and began to climb it into the Fourth World.
The Fourth World ("White World" aka "Shimmering World"), here First Man and First Woman and all of the spirits/gods began to plan out the idea of "existence". This was in response to the concept of death emerging (when a spirit/populous returns to the Third World and having no way to go back to the Fourth World). They created the sun and moon, night and day, filled the world with drinkable water, and created the Four (Six depending on who you ask) Sacred Mountains. They had planned out the stars to be in an intricate pattern but the mischievous Coyote just threw them all into the sky. At some point, the Gods created the most Human-like being (but still demi god status) known as Changing Woman. First Man and First Woman adopted her. Changing Woman gave birth to the Monster Slaying Twins (Human but lesser demi god status). But it was Changing Woman who created the first Humans (you know! like you and me); but she created them out of a mixture of sweat, dirt, and dead skin cells.
I explained all that pretty mildly. First Man and First Woman had many of the same experiences that a normal humans would go through just at different time and in different worlds. They were taught skills by Gods and other Animals; and in turn humans learn from their stories.
Wow....thank you for your effort!
I think theres alot of mistranslations cause europeans usually see it from their perspective or how they would do it or think it etc
Wonderfully interesting thank you .
I believe the coyote stole water monsters baby. Water monster angered, flooded the world.
omg thank you so much my English teacher asked me to watch this video but I wasn't paying attention the whole time but look what I've found!! 😭❤️
"the turtle got tired so the frog put the whole world on his back"
That didn't really help the turtle tho.
Turtles dont need help
Tee Are 😂😂😂
Tee Are
Yes, let them choke on the plastic bags and watch
"They're hungry...like the wolf"
Goddamn it
came to the comments to say exactly this
What about spider-grandma, how does she play into this whole affair?
Duran Duran reference FTW
Haha
Not only is this informative and entertaining, but it gives me ideas for worldbuilding for roleplaying campaign settings. Anyone else do things like that?
aetherspoon that's what's up. I've been curious about the similarities of myths and legends around the world. This is great for that and to incorporate that into a campaign would be sweet.
I don't think that stereotype of Native Americans makes them look primitive. I think it makes them look better than other people. That stereotype is, to me at least, a good role model.
Right?
I think it is beautiful how the native american perceive the world.
Good stereotypes can be just as pernicious as bad ones. "These people have such great spiritual harmony with the natural world. It would be a real shame for them to have to deal with messy, worldly affairs. (Which is to say, make their own decisions and control their own lives.)"
Not that you're doing anything like that of course. Just a reminder that you've gotta keep your guard up. :)
Yeah, but I think this idea stems more from the view that "Primitive people are closer too earth and spirituality and are therefore nobler" (like for example in Rousseau's philosophy). The distinction between "primitive" and "civilized" is therefore already established in such a statement and can thus be harmful as primitive is a word with a bad connotation.
1987MartinT Perhaps to you it sounds good. But stereotypes are inherently problematic. If almost everyone you met expected you to be sensitive to the natural environment and deeply spiritual what would that mean? Would people take your scientific hypothesis less seriously, or assume that your legal actions performed to protect your land are based on ungrounded beliefs? It's not a helpful stereotype in today's world.
Liam York
I understand why stereotypes can be problematic. What I'm saying is that the stereotype itself doesn't sound negative to me.
So what happened to the guy who threw down the woman? I can't imagine the incident would have gone over well.
He became the Christian's god.
Edward Longshanks Of England, Duke of Aquatine Tough. Ideas are not above criticism or funny-fication
He was her husband. And she wasn't merely "sick", she was pregnant with twins. In some versions it is her father who throws her down to earth. In other versions she simply falls through the hole without being pushed.
Essess Nine I can imagine the choice words she would have to say about either of them in that scenario.
Perhaps... but only those events allowed her to fulfill a greater destiny.
I already adore this series, but the fact that you all took the time to address the potential for a "noble savage" interpretation of American traditions really shows how much of a thoughtful and thought provoking project you are all a part of.
I can't wait for the next installment.
Til the next time, don't forget to be awesome!
The turtle one reminds me of Avatar the last air bender.
+
Miss Houston Avatar is partially based off of those stories.
Miss Houston It reminds me of Discworld
The Cosmic Turtle is also a found in Chinese and Hindu mythologies, which Avatar borrows from.
turtles all the way down man.
I love how people confuse the words primitive and stupid. Primitive people were not stupid, look on their surviving works and marvel at their achievements. While I am loathe to romanticize the past, we must remember that all we have built was built on the foundation of discovery and innovation stretching all the way back to early man.
Harmony with nature is very important in Shintō as well
Would have been good to see some pacific island and australian aboriginal creation mythology as well
I have never really known much about native Americans except from watching Pocahontas and now I'm really fascinated by their world view.
also on a side note it looks like Thoth has become the series mascot
somehow
Check out the film Dances With Wolves by Kevin Costner. It is actually a damn fine movie, an accurate portrayal of the Sioux peoples of the mid 19th-century, and certainly NOT a "white man saves the poor savages" story, like with the film Avatar (actually, the Sioux save the "white man" character from his own nihilism.) Other than that, there are plenty of videos on youtube about True American culture (Native American, to the layman) . . .
Thanks. Will do
There is more than one creation story.
In my opinion, Passamaquoddy stories are exceptional.
mrudula srivatsa the creation stories they have are very interesting, and very unique. Definitely worth looking into more!
However, I have to say that the concept that the native Americans were living in total harmony with all other humans should not be considered fact. I say this because plenty of native Americans warred with each other, killed each other, fought for territory, glory, and goods. Just like all other humans have.
It's one thing to have a belief, but another to follow it. I'm not saying they're savages or anything like that, just that they, like all humans killed each other.
Mingo Von Zills +
You guys made some mistakes when retelling the Iroquois Creation Myth. (Tree grows more than just corn, every plant we used grew near the base of the tree, including squash, beans, tobacco, strawberries etc. Also it was the otter who was able to swim down the farthest, but aquiring the dirt cost the otter his life. The story is better if you're able to take the time to tell the story in full. I understand you have limitations like time constraints. But I liked the episode overall.
The story of the turtle and the ducks is the most beautiful creation story I've ever heard.
I'm in a Greek and Roman Mythology class in college right now and this series is really helpful. :)
it's kinda the mythology you would expect of a hunter-gatherer group. many of the other ones you have mentioned are agrarian, people tame animals and put them to work, they gather seeds and plant them to make farms, agrarian societies are very much humans dominating nature and bending it to their will, making nature work for them so little surprise their creation myths follow a similar vein...gods building up the earth as humans would clay, sometimes literally building humans OUT of clay (the two that come to mind, judaism and some south american religion...aztec maybe? are very much an agrarian civilization)
hunter gatherers however, of course they will think of the animals as having personality...they track them, they hunt them, they are familiar with their personalities...they know that a deer and a wolf and a bear will all act differently to humans, they know their habits and their movements. a hunter-gatherer tribe isn't dominating nature, they aren't bending nature to their will, they are taking from nature, they are part of nature, so it makes sense that in a hunter-gatherer group there would be a kind of idea of nature being along side humans instead of humans being above nature...
This is so cool! As a spiritual person myself, I believe humans were meant to be protectors, caretakers and nurturers of the earth and everything in it, including animals.
Primitive? Native Americans are like... the best. They're ahead of the game in life. We even used some of their sociatal structure in our layout for the American government.
High-five to all my fellow native friends! (Or people with similar respects and beliefs, it really doesn't matter)
I'm Native American myself but I just wanted to say the idea of a structure like government is pretty primitive. Why did we ever decide we needed some humans to rule over the rest of humans and have the codes to nuclear warheads and the like? 😬
Thought Bubble missed a chance to reveal that Cerberus/Kerberos possibly means spot. Meaning Hades/Hekate had named their 3 headed doggo Spot first. Talk about ancient memes.
Crystal Miller Not trying to be rude, but I’m pretty sure that Cerberus is the only way to spell it, seeing as it’s pronounced with an “s” sound. Also, I think it was Hades and Persephone, Hekate was the goddess of magic
Finally, a mythology episode that isn't 40% Greek and Roman.
In this day and age of excess, wouldn't people think of the Native Americans as the more enlightened ones? Living in harmony with nature and people seems to be the way the modern zeitgeist is taking us. But then, some people also deny global warming is manmade... c'est la vie.
The Native Americans did see humans as an equal part of nature as everything else, not on the top. And in that sense they indeed were more 'intelligent'. But they also had some customs that show that they could have been more intelligent (e.g. 'potlatch'). So yeah, nobody's perfect
Some also viciously slaughtered raped and enslaved rivals. No better or worse than any other humans.
And yet they tell us that the early Indians wiped out some of the large animals like the giant sloth; not exactly living in harmony with them.
Rarely are cultural beliefs form in full form from the beginning. The native people were there for thousands of years, it hard to say that they always acted in there more modern known way. Though a behavior to not promote over hunting makes sense in a culture where noted sources of food where lost though over hunting.
There is an issue with limiting your view of a people to a limited number of points. When you take for instance the American Indian view of nature and judge their whole society as more enlightened based on this one belief, you end up doing them and those your are comparing them to an injustice.
1. Yes they may have had a better view of nature at the time, however, this did not stop them from killing American Bison in huge numbers, large enough that the first pioneers across the plains would complain about the stench of rotting bison carcasses because Indians (despite modern belief) did not use every part of EVERY bison. Sure they may have used every part of it, but not out of every bison killed. Many plains Indians believed that Bison came from a lake up north and that they were an infinite food source. In fact, the plains Indians very well might have done the same thing white settlers did to the Bison if left to their own devices eventually, just not as quickly.
2. The view that they had no concept of land ownership. Well this is straight up wrong or misrepresented. Yes they did not believe in individual ownership of land. They were very much a communal society in that regard. However they did believe in tribal ownership. There is a reason that Indian tribes were very warlike and killed each other quite a lot. Europeans on the other hand had a belief in individual ownership of the land.
There are many other ways in which we narrowmindedly look at our own and others' cultures. The above are just examples in which we do this with American Indians. You can then go into how certain tribal views and norms are projected onto all American Indian cultures and nations where the Hopi culture is very different from the Iroquois culture and so on.
It results curious for me how the european and middle east civilizations have a vision of themselves, at the time of their creation as better than any other being in the planet as god's favorites ones; only refering to the greek and judeo-christian cultural and teological conceptions of creation because they are the two most influencial in the western world. In their myths, both have special abilities granted by the gods that gives them control over the rest of the creation, but its curious how in the nativeamerican's myths (from U.S., excluding the Mesoamerican and Andine civilizations) the humans are portraited equal as the wild animals, they can't rule over them and they most keep the balanze in the nature.
I think that happens because nativeamericans lacked of any kind of cattle or something similar; this is important because without cattle, the natives couldn't have developed any bigger and more complex civilization and thus a more complex mythological vision of themselves. Let's think in this way: a great civilization emerges from a well-developed urban complex with a big population and resources that could sustain that growing population, and for that you need two necessary resources: a nutritious and versatile vegetable (ex. wheate or corn) and livestock, the second one is more important because it helps to feed the people in winter or in times of bad harvest, and make them less dependent of the huntry and gathering as they have a renewable and stable resource of meat, leather and other products. That's the point I defend! The nativeamericans of North American have a more dependent view of themselves and the nature because they lacked of husbandry animals to make them completely independent of the hunting seasons, and that is shown when you contrast both mythological points of view.
PD: I apologize if I have any mistakes in my grammar or spelling, I'm still learning English and I will accept any suggestions or advices to improve my dominion on it.
Andrés Orozco I came down here to say exactly this, and you beat me to it! Totally agree.
Thank you tedhascoldpants! Actually the Americas had a chance to be the same as Europe, with animal husbandry and all, but the extinction of the megafauna ruined all of that...just think about it: natives with horses and cows before Columbus arrived on 1492!
My advice is to break up your paragraphs a little better.
The main thing I'd take exception to is the statement that in the Americas, they "couldn't have developed any bigger and more complex civilization". They did; several of them in Mexico and Central America, for instance. They went in a somewhat different direction than the Eurasian civilizations, and the lack of access to resources like domesticated animals made that inevitable, but in the end, they overcame that obstacle.
That the difference in the role of animals in mythology has some parallel in the different role of animals in society, is spot on, though.
That's an interesting thesis, but it's important to remember that the creation myth told in the video was just one of a large number of creation myths believed by different indigenous groups native to North America. Not all of the myths are so reliant on the help of other animals. Some focus on the sun as a creator deity (sun worshipers) and others are much more human-centric when telling of their people's origin. Many more use an amalgamation of animal/human deities, which is not particular to only native North American peoples, but also Egyptians, Aztecs, etc. Egyptians had cattle and other domesticated livestock, but still worshipped deities with the traits of wild animals and associations with natural forces. The Mayans, Incas and Aztecs had a very advanced and complex working civilization without any cattle at all, unless you count the Incas with their llamas :) Yahweh began as an air god among many other weather divinities during the time, and was later worshipped as Jehovah, the monotheistic version. Similarly, there is evidence that Tezcatlipoca, an Aztec god, was well on his way of becoming the dominant god of his people, before the arrival of the Spanish, and may have become to the Aztecs what Jehovah became to the Hebrews. But I imagine that the primary forces behind monotheism have to do with the political advantages, instead of a direct relationship with the existence or absence of husbandry.
Good to see that the Mongols are still thought of even after all this time since the World History series finished up. They are indeed the exception.
1:56 - "they're hungry... like the wolf." 😂😂😂😂 nice Duran Duran reference! 👊
I do think it’s important to also note that the special position granted to humans in the original creation, as part of the Abrahamic tradition, gives humans both a position of power and of responsibility... they are meant to act as agents of the Creator in managing the glorious creation... of course that relationship is symbiotic (I.e. the creation provides for them whilst they maintain the creation as a glorious dwelling place of the Creator) but by no means are they meant to destroy and defile the good creation of the Creator... abandoning their role of responsibility in favour of what they believed to be good or evil was, indeed, in part, what the snake tricked them into doing
No guys we must thank the space spaghetti god for our existence
Joe Lee Blasphemy! Flying Spaghetti Monster is our one true god
@@zeromailss meat balls and spaghetti is my altar.
I would say that in Christian belief, often rather than seeing nature as something that can be disposed of freely, many instead believe that since humans are placed over the Earth and must be good stewards of it by caring for nature and animals the best we can.
Emperor Emboar It is kind of sad that ideas like shalom and "priestly" care seem to have fallen off the radar in popular Christianity. He's right in saying that people have used the genesis account to justify essentially the opposite of what it meant to its original audience. The bible is perhaps even almost unique in that regard, in that it has a still-relevant ancient context in which its mythology, history, and other teaching has always been used and understood, and also a major and important use as the standard of the western, colonial world. The same myth, remodeled to suit a new worldview and understood very differently... a shame that I doubt that depth will ever be indicated in this series, leaving a casual viewer who might otherwise want to go deeper on their own no idea it was there, unlike the first nations myths in this episode (for example), which were clearly underexplored and prompt further investigation.
Emperor Emboar It is kind of sad that ideas like shalom and "priestly" care seem to have fallen off the radar in popular Christianity. He's right in saying that people have used the genesis account to justify essentially the opposite of what it evidently meant to its original audience, which is more as you described. The bible is perhaps even almost unique in that regard, in that it has a still-relevant ancient context in which its mythology, history, and other teaching has always been used and understood, and also a major and important use as the standard of the western, colonial world. The same myth, remodeled to suit a new worldview and understood very differently... a shame that I doubt that depth will ever be indicated in this series, leaving a casual viewer who might otherwise want to go deeper on their own no idea it was there, unlike the first nations myths in this episode (for example), which were clearly underexplored and prompt further investigation.
Twisted Tachyon All of these myths can be interpreted differently to get an equally valid meaning. For example, the Native American myth can show that animals are meant to serve humans as the animals did everything for the fallen girl. It just matters what the culture interprets it as meaning.
Hmm, but that still implies a dominance over nature (after all, it's hard to be a steward of something if you don't hold power over it. I could claim to be the steward of the president and it wouldn't mean much). I think the dominance vs harmony idea is the more important one here. Interesting point though.
I'd simply argue that a balance between dominance and submission is not always a bad thing, as long as there is healthy symbiosis.
Growing up in the Philippines - a Catholic dominant country - it was always taught to me that Genesis encouraged human beings to look after nature than dispose of them. In the Bible, human beings are called “shepherds of creation” and like Jesus the shepherd, are encouraged to look after and take care of nature. Human beings are of course, treated as above animals, but just like how Jesus is treated as above others by Christians does not negate the fact that he chose to use his power over others to teach kindness, mercy and forgiveness to enemies. In other words, when looking to Jesus as a role model, human beings are above animals in their intelligence and decision making, but that is exactly why we are given even more responsibility to use it for other living creatures.
I'm Toth-ally in love with this series
I'm Ojibwe (we're neighbors/cousins to the Iroquois people) and in our story, it was a muskrat who dove to the bottom to collect soil. Really cool to hear about the different versions as well as learn more about the stories of native peoples from the Southwest!
Yeah, in our tradition the Creator made all the animals first and we humans last, and we humans are called "the grandchildren" because we are young and rely on those who came before us (aka the Earth and the animals) to take care of us.
Would've help seeing when (on a timeline) the myths/religions came about, everything didn't start at year zero.
Being created by people it would give an insight into peoples minds at that time.
+ This is a fantastic idea. I love it.
I've heard a different version of the earth diver myth, There were sky people and the sky chiefs wife had a dream of digging up the great tree which was white, so the chief ordered everyone to dig it up. When that was done, the wife looked down the hole, and fell, but not before grabbing seeds from the tree to try to save herself. The animals of the water world saw this woman falling and a bird went and caught her. They placed her on the turtles back, and decided they must get the earth from the bottom of the ocean for the woman. Many tried, but all failed, except for the tiny muskrat who got the earth. The animals placed the muskrats paw on the turtles back, and from his back sprang land, and the woman dropped the seeds and the seeds created plants. That is also why turtles have markings on their backs. This story was in my English 10 Pearson Textbook.
I've always liked the animal-cooperative and animal-dominant myths; they tend to be better as stories than most other myths, in my opinion. There's also a few in some parts of Africa and Polynesia. (Are we looking at Anansi again? I think we might be.)
Currently studying ancient mythologies in uni in Australia and this course has been working really nicely with what I'm studying so far! I found the Native American message of harmony really interesting because the indigenous peoples of Australia have a very similar thing. Any given clan often shares an ancestor with one or several other species of animal, and therefore they see they animals as 'kin'. It doesn't stop them from hunting those animals for food -- hunting does exist in their creation stories -- but there are certain ways they go about it that afford more respect to their kin. There's also law about how much they can hunt, and when and where. I'm over-simplifying it in this comment, there's much more to it, but I found the similarities really interesting considering both groups are from different parts of the planet!
I think that the myths relation to animal depends on the way who thought them lived. Of course, people who have a relation of coexistence and dependence on animals, like hunter-gatherers, would have myths that insist on the respect of the hunted, as human learned quickly that being greedy and killing all the animal only lead to the loss of their food source.
On the contrary, people that breed their animal, and thus decide their fate from birth to death for their own subsistence, would think of it as natural that they would try to explain this situation by giving stories naturalizing this relation.
He said the Native American belief might seem primitive, but the more hear about other creation stories, I find the biblical ones to be very primitive... I mean "Humans dominate the earth and animals and we do with them what we please" sounds to me much more like uncivilized human beings than trying to keep a balance between humans and nature.
I really like how you deliver the information. as in your way of talking.
Shout out to thought cafe. This series has some of the best 2d animations of any Crash Course.
loving this series so far, nice to put a humorous twist on religion
Rumi this is mythology. not religion
Rumi It can be both, in many cultures what we call myths used to be their religions.
mrudula srivatsa It's the same
Quem sou eu? Não é da sua conta I disagree.
Religion demands faith. Myths do not. They are simply stories. It's just that religion often use myths to reaffirm faith, but mythology itself is not religion.
mrudula srivatsa Religion use myths to explem everything = Mythology,
The creation stories differ for each nation. It is not just a toad that dives for some earth soil. The turtle is always common. Sometimes it is the Muskrat and Diver that dive for the soil. True, Native Americans have respect for animals as equals. For survival, animals took pity and willingly gave up their lives for us to survive. That's why nothing was wasted of the animal be it elk, deer, moose or Buffalo. FYI. Native American here.
I'm so happy when the thought bubble starts! So colorful man, I love it..
This is my favourite course out of all. I think one important reason is because Mike speaks much slower than other speakers. Listening other courses just makes me anxious...
That native american story resonates with me. Not saying that I literally believe that's how it went down. But the take aways are the most applicable to the mentality I hope to see more of in this world.
What I like about the American Girl Kaya is the way her stories incorporate the Nez Perce creation stories.
Cats were domesticated as pest control
Actually scientist have started hypothesizing that cats aren't actually domesticated, if anything they've domesticated humans.
Yeah, they just kind of started living in our barns/silos and we decided we liked having them there because they killed rats so we just kind of left them alone. They lost their fear of humans because of living alongside us like this, but they never came to *look up to* humans the way dogs did, as they weren't directly dependent on us until quite recently.
Cats aren't really domesticated, they are just small tigers who live in your house. they just tag along.
I think it's more like a symbiotic relationship. people feed the cats, and the cats let their pictures get taken in costumes and posted on the internet.
+92axelmaster
More accurately, they're just small tigers whose hunting range happens to coincide with your granary.
This is one of my very favourite topics on one of my very favourite channels with one of my very favourite hosts. Yay internets!
love that the comments aren't even close to the topic at hand yet
1:20 Nice Fenrir reference ;)
I'll call you _PARTICULARLY GRUMPY DOG_ (me baptizing the first wolf).
I wish everyone respected nature like the indigenous cultures
What would be a good place to start with Native American mythology?
This video in particular helped me appreciate more the subject I'm taking recently, Environmental Ethics. Thanks Thoth!
I was expecting to see angry Christians screaming in the comments of these series ! *Thankfully* they didn't its good having fun and nice conversations for once in a channel ... good Job Crash Course
I think you spoke too soon. I do see some angry Christians in the comment section.
yeah seems like it .. let them bable all they want !!
Constantine115 I saw just one one only one and he's comments had or 1 like or 0
Either they haven't found the video or they finally got civilized !
Constantine115 Many of us Christians are actually watching this series. But when we come to these kinds of videos, it is to learn, not debate, though there are some points we disagree with which results with a few people getting offended. But we are all intellectuals here, regardless of beliefs. so we are to behave as so :)
Guy 1: " Hey, we must save the chief's daughter!
Guy 2: " This one?"
Guy 1: " Exacly."
( Guy 2 pushes the woman off the sky.)
OMG's I want a Thoth tote bag!
Tamisin 731 same
agreed!
Totes.
ITYM "Oh my god, I totes want a Thote tote bag!" ;)
I want a toth tote for my three-toed toad
So that's what inspired the Lion Turtles in Avatar!
Dogs? What about Doge? such mythology. much interesting. wow. very creation.
the term "helper" is the word "ezer"- a term often used to describe God himself in the old testament. It's not derogatory.
What is your source for the iroquois creation myth? I know there are several versions, but I've never heard skywoman being sick. She's always already pregnant, and typically the geese catch her while she's falling, put on the turtle's back and the muskrats grab mud from the bottom of the ocean and spread it on the turtle's back to create turtle island.
I'd like to know too. I was going to make a similar comment but was reading to see if someone else noticed. I understand there are variations but most of the small details vary widely from what I have discussed with people or studied
Nicole Gomlak-Green I heard she fell, was not sick. Birds caught her. several animals including a beaver dived for the mud first but couldn't get to the mud at the center of the watery earth. the muskrat made it but didn't have enough air to make it back. she died in the effort to get the mud to the turtle's back for the sky woman. The skywoman walked on the mud spreading it further and further creating all of North America on the turtle's back. It was a certain turtle with 13 plates on his back and they match up with the 13 tetonic plates of North America.
Patricia Locatelli exactly. that's the same general idea of what I wrote down too. A important retelling of this story was written down and published under the title "earth graspers", because as she was falling through the hole, she grabbed seeds from the tree of life, and from that she planted corn, beans, squash, strawberries (and one version I read states potatoes as well). Also, she either falls down the hole herself, or her husband is there too and (sometimes) pushes her. So it's not some random guy.
And then either she has a daughter who gets pregnant from something (the wind, I've heard) or she herself has the twins that 1 is evil and 1 is good and creates all the things in the world, good and bad. I've also heard that when skywoman dies her head gets thrown into the sky and becomes grandmother moon.
Patricia Locatelli And also, yes to her packing down the earth. we have a dance called the women's shuffle (eskanye) and in addition to using our feet to pack down the earth, we move our arms as of were throwing seeds. The dance is skywoman's dance.
That is so awesome. I've never seen the dance but I have heard the story from a few different storytellers and most of the details were the same. The ones I heard it was the daughter of the original skywoman that has the twins Good and Evil. I do remember them tending the plants she brought with her. Nowhere in the stories I remember were the animals unhappy or tired about helping the skywoman. They were very compassionate
thank you guys for doing these. I love watching them every week
I snort laughed at "They're hungry
... like the wolf".
I cannot be the only one who has a crush on Mike. He's adorable.
Oh, wow, I like this creation mith the best. Balance and harmony with ourselves, others and the world. That sounds... very very nice. Desirable.
My mom used to tell me the story of spider-lady, I've never heard her referred to as spider grandmother. But in Hopi culture elders you are related to are considered like grandparents.
You gotta understand Mike, cats know the secrets to the universe, but they'll never tell us humans.
When you say "Dogs were among the first, if not the first domesticated animals," you REALLY understate it. The domestication of dogs predates the domestication of *anything else* by *tens of thousands of years.* The gap between the domestication of dogs and the domestication of the next animal to be domesticated is *longer than humans have had agriculture.*
Also cats domesticated themselves in an even less direct way - after we started farming, rats started to infest our storage sites. Cats like to eat rats, so they moved in as well. Since the cats didn't pose a threat and helped with the pests, we just let them stick around. Hence why cats like humans but don't really obey them - they lost their fear of humans from living in such close proximity, but they were never *directly dependent* on us the way dogs were until quite recently.
So Fenris isn't a good boy?
This episode was much better then the previous ones.
Cats domesticated us. They started by showing they could be useful by hunting rodents, then seduced us with their cuteness.
Love that Duran Duran joke. 10/10
where could I find the native American myths mentioned in this video?
jailer stik vilar serge There is a book called "At the Woods Edge" that is a collection of traditional stories from Natives in the north east area of the US & Eastern Canada. Besides that you would need to look for an elder in one of the communities and ask them about the stories if you can.
Jesse Daye thanks. that's very useful information
Later Biblical text says God cares for the animals and plants and is aware of one sparrow that falls from the sky. I think there is a much bigger view of God's care that is expressed in the biblical text that many human-centered views overlook.
"All Green Plants are for food" Yeah sure have a nice Hemlock and Poison Ivy Salad..
I like how you are vary respectful unlike a lot of other channels who talk about religion
EVOLUTION FROM NOTHING ? Maybe not VARY respectful but as a Christian I didn't take much offense to this
It's always turtles. It's turtles, turtles all the way down.
In Navajo Creation humans were kind of late comers, and in an interesting twist the animals used to live in settlements and spoke language like people. But they were so off-put by humans they went into the wilderness and have stopped speaking to us since. That was one of my grandmother's stories, so interesting when compared to Christianity I think. The two views of the world and nature are so different.
Mythology reminds me a lot of the crazy dreams I have. 😂
Made it just in time before comment smack downs start.
Cats are also one of the oldest but not tamed pets. Cats like to do their thing and were great for disease control.
Interesting. I wonder why the American Indians have such a different tradition than the Biblical one? I'm guessing it has to do with the fact that they weren't into herding like the writers of the Old Testament. Because the ancient Hebrews kept animals and used them for work, they developed a sense of domination.
Dominion is not evil in and of itself. It's how it's used. And, think of it more as being "entrusted with creation." It's beautiful in it's own way.
Here's what the cats are hiding
T O X O P L A S M O S I S
YOU WONT BELIEVE THIS ONE LITTLE SECRET THAT CATS DON'T WANT YOU TO KNOW
The funny thing is that toxoplasmosis doesn't make humans ill, it simply reproduces asexually in humans, then goes on to infect more cats and make them ill.
maxwell simon Unless that human happens to be pregnant
True
Toxoplasmosis most definitely makes it's hosts ill and the worst kind of ill, mentally ill.
I love Mike since I've been watching Idea Channel for ages, and this series is wonderful! Keep up the good work!
Should've given us the names of some of the animals in Hebrew, considering that was the language the Bible was written in, and Adam and Eve supposedly spoke it. It would've just been a cool tidbit to add in.
CodeKillerz not really, usually when giving a lecture one translates the things to the language more common amongst the public.
While I get your point, and you are right, the etymology of words in different languages isn't really the purpose of this show, haha.
The Bible was actually written in Greek, so "hippopotamus" fit perfectly well and I think that was the joke.
"...written in Greek."
Er, citation needed.
I'm 100% sure that the Old Testament was written in Hebrew, and I could probably find many articles proving so.
CodeKillerz then don't be 100% sure without citing sources yourself. Mine are the Spetuagint aka the source for the Old Testament and the New Testament originally written in Greek and partially in Aramaic, both comprising the Bible.
Dang, I love Crash Course. Serving up some delicious, refreshing knowledge.
Love the video, love the series. Oh and, 2:23 cats are hiding something, just watch Futurama.
You don't have a cat. A cat has you. Who feeds whom? Who disposes of whose wastes? Who works to make money to buy toys to entertain whom? When a cat gets a job to pay my ISP bills, then I might think that I have a cat.
Yet another fascinating episode. Def my favourite Crash Course series so far. :)
7:06
TOADY DIVER
YOU'VE BEEN DOWN TOO LONG IN THE MIDNIGHT SEA
BRING LAND UP FOR ME
thanks so much for this:) I'm writing a high fantasy novel based on Native American mythology and this really helped
CrashCourse, they're better an episode on the Judeo-Christian Devil (Lucifer/Helel/Satan) or any destructive "prime evil" deity/being in mythology and/or religion!
No seriously, plz
I'm reasonably sure they'll be covering apocalyptic stories, underworlds, and other destructive forces later on. Even in the title splash sequence, they show the Norse pantheon with Jormungandr (the giant world serpent who battles Thor to mutual destruction) and Fenrir (the giant wolf who bit off Tyr's hand and slain Odin after breaking free from the Aesir's captivity), who were both big parts of the Ragnarok story.
Seeing as Loki and Lucifer play somewhat similar antagonistic roles in their respective pantheons, I'm curious if they'll be featured in an episode together.
That's really interesting! I'm not a religious fellow myself but I do respect it, but sometimes the differences between Christianity and Judaism aren't so clear cut to me. It's really interesting to hear that perspective, thanks!
YOU have ONLY to read the Quaran and every thing will be clear for you. just try to understand .
proudwonk . you need to read it in your mother languages. there is hundreds of translations available online. if your mother tongue is English, read it in English. and also there is interpretation of it in all languages.
Contact me in my facebook: Imane Ennabihi
proudwonk Not at all
you have at leas uderstand the Quran's meaning. it is so easy for you.
just try again, you are going to fully understand any question yoy have in your mind. Believe me, you will lose any thing.
I love this series.
This series spends way too much time on the Judeo-Christian mythology. From @2:38 to @4:30 is all Judeo-Christian - then 1 minute on the Hopi, a minute and a half on the Iroquois, then a general overview of the roles of animals in many Native American tales. Most of the audience already has a superficial knowledge of the Judeo-Christian myths, although they aren't aware of the numerous contradictions within the Judeo-Christian myths (which many people attempt to parade as 'factual').
Love the interactions with the little animated characters (:
I don't understand this attitude of thinking such societies are "primitive" like people who work with nature rather than precieve themselves as above it are somehow lesser or stupid
I think that if people were more like the native people of North America the world would be a more peaceful better society that isn't destroying the very planet they live on and in fact need to survive
wolven moonstone And we wouldn't have reached the moon like that.
Freek De Jonghe what could we have achieved instead? Do we measure success by trips to the moon or by the continued perseveration of the conditions needed for life on Earth? I don't think it's that simple. These are two different kinds of intelligence, both of them have pros and cons.
Really loving this course so far. Can't wait for the next one. :D
Mike, did you really quote Duran Duran?😂
u guys should have a classical music playlist !!!! like talk about the periods and movements, notable contributions like "why was beethoven famous" etc 😛
9:18 mark:
Well there's more to it than that when God said we have dominion over these animals he meant treat them as he treats us.