Golf Swing Myths DEBUNKED: Shaft Lean, Speed, and Width 🙅♂️
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- Опубліковано 31 лип 2023
- 👉 Add Distance & Speed INSTANTLY with this FREE Drill: athleticmotiongolf.com/distance
In this exciting episode of the AMG Podcast, we bring you a fresh take on golf instruction! Join our certified AMG instructor, Nick Duffy, along with Shaun Webb and Mike Granato, as they tackle the age-old question of generating clubhead speed through the golf swing. They delve into the debate of using arms versus the body and how to effectively get the hands down to the ball with speed during the backswing and downswing.
Discover the crucial role of arms in achieving maximum clubhead speed and why it's essential not to ignore their contribution. While there's much talk about body-driven swings, the team emphasizes the significance of arm activation for optimal results.
Learn the technique of lowering and straightening the arms early in the downswing, akin to a yoyo movement, to generate impressive hand speed. The discussion also highlights the importance of maintaining width in the arms to avoid casting and premature release.
The podcast hosts share valuable insights gained from measuring professional players and break down how they achieve the perfect timing between arms and pelvis in the downswing to achieve shaft lean at impact.
If you're looking to improve your golf swing, increase clubhead speed, and optimize your ball flight, this episode is a must-watch. Join AMG instructors as they debunk common misconceptions and provide practical tips to enhance your game.
Tune in now to boost your golf performance and unlock the secrets to a powerful and accurate swing. Don't forget to like, subscribe, and hit the notification bell to stay updated with more insightful golf tips and techniques from the AMG Podcast! Improve your game today.
#golf #pga #athleticmotiongolf #golfdigest #golfchannel #golflesson #golflessons - Спорт
👉 Add DISTANCE & SPEED NOW with This FREE Drill: athleticmotiongolf.com/distance
3:35 a perfect self roast with the completely uncalled for body fat graphic
Keeping it real 😆
I've finally started to focus on lowering the arms in transition and it gives me so much more time that I never had before to rotate through the ball.
Bingo 👏
👍
First, when you started, did you feel you would be so late, that, You’d miss the ball totally?
9:00 Work backwards stops about trail thigh high, were the club shaft is parallel to the ground, but it is a feel thing.
I have talked about changing direction right when the hands and club combo momentum reaches about zero. My key feel to start turning hard forward is when the club seems to lose its weight totally and throw the club head at the ball.
Like the new format. Informal discussion makes it more accessible. Great information. Keep it up.
Thanks for watching🙏🏻. We hope these will be good supplements to the instructional videos
Thanks lads great detailed information. I hit the range today from watching another one of your videos and I was hitting the ball great.
ALWAYS hit it out of the park with your content! By far the best, data driven content in our business. Quick question.....have you guys seen a better logo than my great friends at River Bend G&CC????
Thanks guys. Always insightful 👏🏽
Thanks for watching!
Love to know your thoughts on the prosendr. Seems like the videos of Sean foley with it, he says a lot of the same things your say about lowering the arms and keeping width
The forward shaft lean video is gold. I have never had the contact that I have been having since watching that video. More flushed shots, more distance, and dispersion has been tighter.
The point on where hand speed maxes out in the downswing was an absolute game changer especially for my driver 👍🏻👍🏻 cos I used to think driving the hands forward created more speed🤦🏻♂️. Thanks so much for sharing! 🙏🏻🙏🏻
Love it glad to hear it helped👊🤓
Vidoe and the sort of analysis you guys do has given so much insight into the golf swing.
I'd love to see long form content of your analysis of the likes of Seve, Faldo, Els, Trevino, Palmer etc. compared to modern elite golfers.
Were earlier generations of golfers' swings different or did we just not know what was happening.
Great idea👊🤓
I like a word you have used a couple of times in the past: RUNOFF. Specifically you compared the runoff to the transition where you said transition starts at club parallel on the backswing as this is where the pressure shift starts. This phrase "runoff" is later and is where the inertia is dying and where I am FINISHING my move to the left side.
Compared to the breakaway where we need to get the inertia into the club, the runoff is where we allow ourselves to not feel rushed as we wait for the club to basically stop. The beauty of "feeling the runoff' (which to me feels like the last 4-5 inches of hand movement) is where I can then feel the inertia waning and feel gravity acting on the dying arm-club relationship. This feeling allows the arms to drop first and keeps me from the dreaded pulling the club across my torso AKA a casting maneuver.
I would love to see you guys do a video with discussion about how the runoff can be exploited to allow for a natural feeling which will occur easily by "embracing the runoff" period. For me, it feels like time slows down. By accepting this I have mostly eliminated top of the swing thoughts; I am delivering the club from the inside, my sequence is getting better and my results are much better.
Hey guys I’m a junior golfer around scratch level and in regards to lowering the arms, this has been something I’ve been working on for a while but I struggle to get a good “feel” for them lowering while pivoting without struggling with contact. Should I be waiting for the hands to drop before I start my turn? Should I be more focused on putting force into the move such as the Rory split hand drill? Can’t seem to get the right elbow to lose enough bend. Thanks so much for the help!
There’s no time to actively consciously do it and you will hit it fat. That’s true of a lot of active tinkering. What you need to do is visualize the thought and have the thought and then you just do it via non-action (without actively doing it). I hope that helps. Golf is a mind game.
Quick question. So in regard to the pelvis turn, you mentioned it's a bad concept to max turn on the back swing. Is 40-45 degrees closed to 40-45 opened the same for driver swings as well?
You talk about how far to take the club back. I am a senior golfer. I’ve noticed that I can take the club back so far and then my head starts to come off the ball. So my question is do I take the club back farther even though I’m lifting my head or do I stop when my head starts to move upward thank you for your answer.
Awesome video love this format
🙏🏻👊
Great video! This sums up those 2 or 3 most important videos to me from AMG. To me, getting the club head down is very difficult. The faster I pull the club, the header the club head goes down, and that resulted in shank. That because, the faster I pulled/dragged the grip, the more horizontal the shaft became when hitting the ball. And that "horizontal" gave me fake feeling of "shaft lean". Now, I'm trying to hit the ball with a more vertical shaft, and I've got great result. I always stick with AMG for correct knowledge. As they said in one of previous videos, shaft lean is not that much as we think. It's only 5 degree or so. To me, it feels like vertical.
Great point! 6 degrees is just the one minute mark on a clock. From any sort of distance that looks prettier vertical. 👊🤓
Hey guys . Another great video. Any advise on how to get the hand path more vertical with out the shoulders grabbing them and spinning them out towards the ball . Do i stall the shoulders / keep them closed longer ? Sorry just implementing all the stuff of AMG and loving it just battling with the blend of the arms and rotation .
Try to lower the lead arm more down the chest as your body rotates
@AthleticMotionGolf Thank you for replying and advise. You guys are legends
Brooooo the YOYO swing thought is KING!! Thank you thank you THANK YOU!
Happy to help!
I really enjoyed this format. Hopefully you will be able to answer this question. Is using the tour striker golf training aid teaching me and other golfers emphasizing get too much shaft lean? Thank You
Good question. It’s been a while since I’ve swung one and I don’t recall the amount of lean associated. Would be a neat experiment to hit one on GEARS to find out.
@@AthleticMotionGolf something I'd like to see you cover in this format is hip stalling at impact. I've been on swing catalyst. I get my pressure over to my left side in the proper time but at impact or slightly after my hips don't keep rotating. I have good hip mobility & flare my left foot out. This has been a problem with my swing for a long time. I get it corrected and then it comes back. Thank you once again for the great information.
@@alvermeil5884 a lot of golfers struggle with that so that would make for a good topic to tackle. We'd be happy to cover it👊
15:17 hitting with trail hip is basically, what I tend to do, but my mental image is of hitting the ball with the trail shoulder. The lower body provides that movement, but it is easier to maintain body angles thru the shot with the idea of shoulder plane preserving the tilt towards the ball late enough and not extend early.
It’s tough to recommend a feel because feels are unique to the player. The best way is to record yourself making the movement you want and let that dictate what the feel should be.
I love what Shaun said, about how different golfers need different instruction, and maybe they need to feel things different. I need to "feel" like my right arm almost unfolds completely as the arms lower from the top, well before the ball, even though I know that's not what is happening...
Same here, literally once I feel my hips have recentred my only swing thought is straighten right arm and it “feels” like I’m pushing club away from me (a bit like a karate chop). It took a while for my mind to trust that my pivot will bring club to the ball (on the course my shoulders can get a bit too “active” too early at times).
@@haricslI believe Mike basically said that in the "Shallowing Like You've Never Seen Before" video (my greatest 💡 video), the body's job is to bring the hands to the ball, and hence the club around to the ball. If you haven't seen that video, based on your comment I would tell you to watch that. I posted a couple comments there too how it literally transformed my swing in one day... Next is to drill the hip video, I've got the turn pretty much down, need to ingrain the slight hip "bump" back to recenter for the best contact and "automatic" shaft lean..
@@BrianH020 seen it, that’s where I got it from ! The 💡 moment for me was when they did a “rewind” of golf swing from impact to when hips are square (this shows that posting of left leg is what brings club to ball providing arms are back down). The shoulders are actually very passive until they automatically “free wheel” through impact. I play a lot of tennis so having passive shoulders is a constant battle for me!
The hips needs need to move correctly (ie loads of videos on their site but hip tilt is key - if they are too flat you can’t load/unload them correctly and you get recentring for free as your right hip will go up and back around on backswing).
Simples 😎
My visual is that Hogan retained r arm flex on d swing more than most. Am I off base? I appreciate your coherence. It's not my strong suit.
Is dragging the club or wiping it similar to what some have called the wipe movement?
We've heard it described as the "wipe movement" by players in lessons.
Great video. Clears some things up for me regarding right pelvis. Headed to the range
Awesome 👊
How do we message you guys without having to comment on a video?
Email?
When does the backswing end?
I would say it's the point where you can no longer maintain your angles. For a righty, I'm thinking left elbow, right knee+leg, and spine.
Thoughts?
The backswing ends when the club starts down.
In your video on shallowing , you stated that you do not see any pro who externally rotated the shoulder/ shaft going down. Would that not be dependent on how internal/ external a player is at the top. For example Tiger with his right forearm close to pointing vertical at the tophas already externally rotated his shoulder going back , so there is no need to further externally rotate it going down. On the other other players like Nicklaus with their right shoulder internally rotated at the top( flying elbow) and their right forearm pointing closer to horizontal must externally rotate in the downswing or else their right elbow will be far , far behind their right hip at impact
Without having the data on Tiger or Jack, we do have the data on pros with very similar trail arms at the top ("vertical" and "flying"). It shows that they all externally rotate in the backswing. The amount varies depending on where they start from and where they wind up at the top, but they're all externally rotating going back. The opposite being the case coming down, all internally rotating. Unfortunately, there's no way to see it from a fixed camera because it's not possible to separate the int/ext movement from AB/ADduction, pro/retraction, depression and ribcage rotation. We've also found that trying to track the speed of the elbow, wrist, etc doesn't work either because it also doesn't separate out the various movements. Like in the backswing, the amounts of internal vary coming down.
What does he mean about letting go of the club in trail hand at 7:10 ? Sometimes I feel like my trail hand thumb comes off the club. Is that what he’s referring to?
Could be thumb coming off or the last 3 fingers opening up👍
Thanks! I May be over swinging 😓
@@diegoescobedo398 yep that often causes it 😬
I swing my arms down with zero body turn to train the arms how to hit, it worked for me. Then i add the body. Good results.
1st Question. Is it lowering the arms from the top of the backswing or is it getting the hips uncoiling and upper body, shoulders arms, hands coming along. The human mind focuses on 1 thing. In my case, if i focus on arms, hips get stuck. If i focus on hips, arms follow.
They all move together (within micro seconds) so which ever feel produces the correct movement can be unique to the player.
@@AthleticMotionGolf Thank you, Sir.
Normally your advice hits and feels right for me right away but I have to admit, I’m struggling with these latest few videos about “impacting on the trail side” and especially “hitting the ball with the trail hip”.
I felt great improvement through shallowing by lowering the arms. Especially when I started not just pulling with them but actually feeling them sliding down the chest.
Where I struggle is with this idea hitting it with the trail hip. If I rotate open enough to do that, I end-up dumping the hands so wide on the trail side that they actually get left behind and at shaft-parallel, the hands are behind the trail leg rather than in-line with it. This is especially true since rotating the hips open pulls that trail leg forward making it even harder to get the hands down in front of it.
Any advice?
The first question should always be “Do I need this?” Have you filmed your swing from 45 to see if you’re not already doing it correctly?
@@AthleticMotionGolf do you mean neither side profile nor front-on, 45 degrees between the two? I record all my swings from side or front-on and usually I hit my best shots when lowering the arms but not deliberately trying to get open. When I try to get open or impact on the trail side, things go wrong. However, I do feel I could use more shaft-lean as my miss is a straight-pull coming from an early-release.
@@Rich-in6ds correct, to see if the hands are on the trail side. 45 target side of face on.
Great info. Your video with am Tony on lead arm addiction and arm raise was transformational for me. This one - about lowering is equally eye opening. 👍 Thanks. P.S. the old barber shop chairs are cool, but you teach better standing up. 😅
Golf can be expensive, and luckily I have a course close by that is a great course at a very reasonable price. Unfortunately, golf instruction is also incredibly expensive and you don’t often know the level of instruction you’re going to get.
I’ve watched hours and hours of the videos you guys have put out. Feel as though I’ve tried every swing method under the sun to try to improve.
Small changes and refinements and understandings have helped me get incrementally better. Nothing compares to this though. No gears data needed this time.
I’ve watched your videos on using the body and on using the arms but have never been able to meld it together. The question you answered about blending it, dropping the arms (because they have to) and turning to feel like your hitting the ball with your hip just made everything so easy. I screwed up twice and hit two shots off the hosel when I early extended. I knew exactly what I did. Literally tried to hit the ball with my hip by thrusting it toward the ball haha. I was able to fix it immediately. How you explained the blend is what helped so much. After trying it out (taking divots out of my front lawn😂) it felt so natural. Had my best round of the year by far not 2 hours after watching this.
Thanks again for the excellent videos and bar none, best instruction out there. You guys are the best!
Wow! That’s awesome to hear, thank you for taking the time to share that with us 🙏🏻
We’ve both played a lot of sports growing up and think golf is probably the hardest to improve on by yourself. It takes a combination of proper concepts and dedicated repetitions. So all the credit to the player when there’s a “breakthrough!” I hose dont happen by accident.
Great job incorporating those two concepts into your best round🙌👏👊🤓
Intrestingly Rory 2:09 has the trail elbow really late behind his hip. And really not much external shoulder rotation as a proper throwing motion would require.
I think there was a finding of Rors having his trail arm elbow pretty straight compared to some others at the top. Having less bend at the elbow could be a personal, movability thing at the shoulder.
Good eye! We’re working on a video to cover this in more detail. The trail elbow working in front of the hip is a myth largely created by the static 2D cameras angle we’re all used to seeing.
@@AthleticMotionGolf will be intresting to see!
Having the elbow tucked behind the body line requires huge amount of rotational movement to square the face. If and when there is a lack of covering the required turning range the only way to save a shot is throwing the arms and club head around and cross the arms fast. Timing becomes an issue while doing so.
We need more of these group chats 🤓
How do I find an AMG certified instructor?
We are rolling out our certification very soon. We have one certified teacher now. It’s Nick Duffy and he’s at our Orlando facility
www.athleticmotiongolfclub.com/lessons
Might not be an important detail, but when you say arms to trail hip in downswing. Do you mean trail elbow to trail front pocket? (While extending elbow bend of course) Also personally struggling with getting the lead shoulder off the chin when trying to "hit the ball with the trail hip" as you mention. My head follows with the turn.
That visual should work just fine too👍. Usually the lead shoulder staying stuck to the chin is a result of too much side tilt from the top to lower the club instead of allowing the arms to lower.
Please help me to understand the distance from the ball video. I am 5'9", 160 lbs,31" inseam size 10 shoe. As average as it gets. If I set up with a 7 iron standard L,L,L, at 29" to ankle center I have no room to swing, I have to stand straight up. My normal distance is 37". Are you certain the tour average measurement isn't to the center of the foot? I'm having a really hard time getting this right. Please clarify for me, and thank you guys for everything you do!
29 to the ankle is correct. We put that at the end of the video because it should be the result of doing the other stuff correctly. Sounds like you could have too much knee bend, bending over to much with arms extended.
Noticing how fast Lucas Glovers hands and arms move in transition. The challenge is to do that without straightening the right arm too soon and in my case keeping the Rt shoulder high.
where can i buy one of these awesome shirts you're wearing??
Shoot support@athleticmotiongolf.com an email and they’ll take care of you 👍
This is awesome
Thank you buddy
How to "lock" myself in one type of golf swing?
My biggest problem is that I swing different ways. Sometimes too shallow, sometimes too steep. Sometimes I drop hands and rotate creating powerful draws, sometimes I cast, stay back, sometimes drag the club too much and so on. I just have the feeling that no coach can help me, because there are several golfers inside me and each have different swing with different flaws.
Although there is one thing they have in common. I overswing. I overswing like you've never seen before.
I am almost 50, and I rotate my shoulders up to 270 degrees, with the club almost vertical on my lead side... How to get rid of it?
We've had a lot of golfers come in over the years describing their swing(s) in the same way. What we do it get them in the GEARS suit and have them make all their swings... every version they have. Sometimes that's 3 swings, sometimes it's 5 or more.
I normally write down the names or descriptions they give for each swing so I know the order we capture them. I'll then play them back (in a different order) side-by-side for the player.
No player yet has been able to tell them apart lol. Meaning, they all FEEL quite different to the player, but the movements are nearly identical - certainly NOT distinctly different swings.
The same underlying fault of issue is constant, the difference is the player tries to FEEL a different "save" in each variation. But nothing really changes other than intent and feel.
You're doing something that allows you to over swing, that's where the focus should be.
@@AthleticMotionGolf My coach told me to "restrict" my hips. It works, keeps my shots straight, but I hate the feeling, I feel stiff and unnatural. Sometimes I drop hands on my trail side and rotate, like you showed - i call it "unexpected hit", because before rotating and delivering the club it doesn't look like I will manage to hit the ball. But the final feeling is great...
How do you become a certified AMG Instructor?
Right now, it’s teaching with us here at the Athletic Motion Golf Club. We’re working on a remote certification for those who can’t do that.
Nice looking t-shirts, boys. Gonna have to get one of those.
🙏🏻👊
3:33 lolllll
Another myth to consider is that you need to slow rotation down in order to snap the club through impact.
I think John Daly has more body...mass than Mike! But man, he can really rotate for a big dude! Hope to see some more instructional videos in the future!
No doubt, he can move! We’ve got new instructional videos in the can 👊🤓
Don't tell Johnny Miller. I just watched a video where he said that tour players set up with a really strong grip, get it closed at the top and then add about 20° of shaft lean. 😂
That’s a lot of lean. Milroy, for example, has 7.5 degrees of lean with a 7 iron. Hard to hit it high enough if you had 20 degrees of shaft lean
What’s up with the shirt logo ? AMGC ??
It’s for our new indoor location Athletic Motion Golf Club.
Athleticmotiongolfclub.com
NICE!!!!! Congrats fellas !! Love the channel !
I think the majority of players should focus on impact skills drills and most of this will take care of itself
Unfortunately, that is 100% NOT the case. The majority of golfers who come to see us are trying or have tried just that. Impact is not a separate event that can be segregated from everything else that happens before it. Impact is the result of everything that happens before it.
Instagram tour 🤣🤣🤣🤣
😀
The only people I see saying “shaft lean is a myth” or the like are people that have no problem achieving it. Personally, if I did it one single time, and the outcome was a poor shot, I would agree and leave it to the back of my mind. But I can’t because I’ve never once achieved it.
It’s a catch 22. If you’re “trying to achieve “ it you’ve missed the boat. You have to do the things that proceed it correctly.
@@AthleticMotionGolf well I’ve tried everything from feeling a full cast to the Justin rose feel to you name it.
@@johnnybravo9087 if you’re steep or open with clubface nothing you can do to fix it
@@johnnybravo9087 how most folks are trying to achieve it is where the myth and mistakes come from. Anything you see at impact (that you like or don’t like) is there because it needs to be to give you the best chance at hitting it towards your target. What we all do at impact is based on the things we do leading up to impact. No one has any sustainable success changing their impact without changing the cause of why they have that impact in the first place.
You guys have all the data to write the book about the pro v. am swing and put all the myths, etc., to bed. I wish you would do that. Write the better Hogan Modern Golf. Please!
It’s in the works !!!!
Some say stopping back swing your lead should touches your chin.
Depth = Width + Rotation
Why do you guys always talk about measured data of the best players in the world and actual 3D evidence? Other instructors on UA-cam can give me one weird trick to hit it long and straight. 😁
Hahaa
Some gems there, boys! You're going to have to update your 193k UA-cam sign on your shelf. At 195K now and soon to pass @GolfChannel at 220K. They need you in their lineup.
That sign is a live counter, so this one was recorded 2K subs ago lol. We like having little easter eggs in the videos to remind us of how fast time flies in this business. Golf Channel here we come 😊