@4:10 Excellent work @RoachRC! There are so many thoughts rolling in my head at 11:50p, but I'll try to consolidate everything... First, yes, I firmly believe RC can and must have a more organized format of racing to break away from the bad habits we all play a part of. My gripe with the Sponsored-Sportsman debate 😮 is that we have never defined what these words mean... anywhere... so, of course, people abuse it! The idea of the Sportsman class began as entry level, but now it means some combination of "KWOWN but not FAST" and racers call foul because of an implied financial and knowledge discrepancy amongst competitors... Sponsor no longer just means skill. It also means influence within your community. I, too, sometimes say to myself, "How did [name] get on with [brand]?" The answer isn't on the final running order. It's how [name] carries [brand] on and off the track.. Next, the definitions... heres how I believe we should correct these classifications: •Sport/Intermediate/Expert (SIE), can be defined as a split determined by SKILL LEVEL. Full stop. Racers can register where they see fit. However, if qualified within the Top 5 of the next level, they are moved up. •Privateer 0%/Open0-75%/Pro 75-100% (POP), can be defined as a split determined by CHASSIS LEVEL SPONSORSHIP. Full stop. Structure the Pro classes, as they should be, let us crazy open drivers have fun at the track OR try to make a name for ourselves in an effort to earn PRO status, and we should also consider shortening the Privateer race day SIGNIFICANTLY so Pravateers don't have to be there all day/weekend. Dollars to donuts, if it's not a 3-day event, every track should be running a version of SIE, but we can't continie to apply the same rules at home to our arena races when they're suppose to be more prestigious than the avg club level events. Finally, if you have any issues with the current understanding at your local track, politely ask them to better define what these classes are.
What we need are more casual parking lot races, just simple events for hobbyists to together and run some races in public where people can spectate, or just show off some of their collection. Too many race tracks are hidden away and out of sight, let alone far too serious.
Sometime between 2004 and 2017 skill level based classes were created. in my opinion this was a big mistake. In the past we would have one open class for each type of vehicle. Re-sorts during qualifying would place you with other drivers of similar pace. By mains the rankings were sorted out. The winner of every lower main, top 3 of A main, and TQ would receive a trophy. Top 3 of each main (upper and lower) would have a podium picture taken of them. A-mains were 30-60 minutes, B-mains were 15-30 minutes, and all other lower mains were 10-15 minutes. This is a great way to structure a program for many reasons: 1) Everyone has a shot at a podium. 2) Everyone has a shot at taking home some hardware. 3) Heats are filled, and having enough turn marshals is not an issue. 4) The program runs faster due to having less overall heats and mains. 5) Mass majority of racers get more track time. The racing program time savings can be redistributed to the lower mains. 6) Sand bagging is not possible. 7) Shorter race days due to the consolidated program. 8) Promotes a racing environment where drivers are indirectly pushed to improve. Bottom Line: The RC community needs to take a hard look at how we did things in the past. Maybe we go a full circle?
Great video! I recently came back to RC and I was blow away by how disjoined the state of RC is. You should cover 1:28 racing like the Reflex and Atomic cars, its exploding in the US and internationally. The 1:28 racing community is actively working together to standardize the various classes, box stock, stock spec, mod and open. IFMAR is even considering reviewing the scale.
Time to go back to the old school way of mains and only mains. No more of these "trophy" hunting divisions. Mains A through Z only. Awards for top 3 and only top 3 in mains A to C. You want an $8 trophy, get better. Spend money on tires and not pretty bench racing items. Finally, there's more people racing today then at anytime in the history of our hobby, yet, everyone is talking about how to save or grow racing. That said, there's a reason why racing is the smallest segment of the the rc hobby. Bashing, crawling, flying etc is more fun because it's less structured and cheaper to participate in. Want racing to grow, make it fun and "racers" need to get over themselves.
As for Stock class, nothing wrong with it. No one actually thinks it's a beginner or entry level class anymore. It's as Lefty called it, Spec Mod. It's a completely open money pit class with a motor rule. Locally we run a spec mini b class. Box stock with the exception of pro-line carpet tires. Shock oil and diff grease are the driver's choice then rest is OEM only. That's an entry level class.
@@trevorfurlotte "No one actually thinks it's a beginner or entry level class anymore." And yet it _constantly_ gets recommended as one at most tracks.
@@trevorfurlotte Except it's not just the track owners or store owners recommending it. It's a lot of the other racers too. The logic is actually understandable in a vacuum - stock is a lower-powered class than a typical mod setup and thus the cars are slower and easier to learn on. Problem is, they don't consider the money pit issue, because it's not an issue that affects them, or at least doesn't affect them to nearly the same degree since they're already established. Honestly, spec classes are the best way to go for newcomers, but many tracks don't run a spec class, and most of the common spec-class chassis, particularly the Traxxas Slash and Bandit, aren't really something that can grow with the driver once they're ready to move up to a faster class. When that happens, the only other options are stock and mod. And, unfortunately, a lot of people are going to fall back to the whole "start in stock" rule of thumb, even though mod with a mild setup would be more ideal.
Know it all preacher... lol. Your videos are great brother. You have a great perspective. My immediate thought was that local tracks would need to be much better at teching and officiating. LiveRC would provide a perfect platform upon which to build a tiered class system that is based on driver performance.
I am actually fairly new to RC. I admit I haven’t been to a “big” race yet, but our local track does pretty much start every new racer with a slash, spec racing is actually the most fun race and everyone gets into it even though they aren’t the fastest race that day or night and everyone pretty much is laughing and having a good time and I think that is what RC is really. We treat it like a big family event. I like this video, I was unaware of the process in Europe and think that some kind of rank system would work in the right setting. Great video!
My dad and I have been talking about developing a new 1/18 car and series, locally perhaps at first. Entire focus is on accessibility and keeping costs down. Cars are super simple and easy to make from scratch if desired. Easy to setup temporary tracks in garages, sheds, basketball courts, auditoriums, etc. any sufficiently large space we can get access to. Temporary carpet tracks.
@@SoloRenegade Temporary Astro and Carpet tracks are how they get it done across the pond. They literally have clubs and the club organizers have sections of pre-built track and loose astro/carpet that they piece together on location and can even have a different size and/or layout every race weekend depending on the available venues.
@@Drunken_Hamster we've done it that way in the US for decades. I grew up racing on indoor carpet tracks with my Dad. 1/10th oval, road course, and then 4wd touring car as well. did it in multiple states from the 1980s to early 2000s. And now we're thinking of trying to get it possibly going against in our area with 1/18 because it opens up more possible venues without the need for an established track nor a hobby shop. If it works I'd build the cars and supply parts for the cars myself, as well as help people learn to make them as well if so desired. 1/18th scale also keeps costs down and keeps the cars simple in design and construction. Makes it more accessible to entry level drivers, and more fun too. And I can create a STEM program with them as well.
@@SoloRenegade I can't find 'em. And I damn sure can't find any permanent tracks local to me aside from dirt ovals. Which are pretty effing useless since I want to either drift onroad (secondary) or do something with jumps(primary), and don't even really want to bother with dirt, at all, if I can avoid it.
Late to the party but here's a few random thoughts: I think a large part of the problem with sportsman/intermediate/pro is that you get the most value for your entry fee when you make an a-main. Like, if you spent $100 to race a big event and you qual into a C main and you get 1x 5 minute final you'll feel kind of ripped off when you see the fast guys get hour long nitro mains or triple a-mains. IMO, there needs to be less of a disparity in the value proposition for someone who makes the F main vs someone who makes the A main. We're all paying the same entry fee, we should all fee like we're getting the same experience for that money. IMO that's why sandbagging can be a problem (like when you have guys like JQ running in the intermediate class, can't believe racetime let that happen). And honestly, I think that's the crux of the problem - RC racing has a major problem justifying the experience you get vs the price you pay. You spend $1k+ on a rig that you can only run at special tracks, and you spend $20 on an entry for a local club race where you get 20 minutes max of runtime out of an event with a time commitment ranging from 6 to 10+ hours. And depending on the surface you run on, you burn through $50 sets of tires in a single race night. And if you want more track time, you need to buy a whole new car for a different class. The solutions to these problems are all pretty simple - limit race nights to 1 entry per driver to keep the program short, encourage spec/box stock classes to keep it cheap, and stop running on surfaces that eat tires. But whenever you suggest these sorts of things all the "hardcore" racers balk and don't understand why you'd even consider any of those things. You should look into the Mudboss class that's big in dirt oval. Those guys have figured out how to run a box stock class and keep it cheap while keeping it competitive so you can race for cheap even if you're a good driver - that's another fatal mistake I think a lot of spec racing fall into. Making it beginner only and treating it as a class you eventually "graduate out of." I think spec classes need talented drivers and strong competition in order to survive, and the Mudboss class seems to be proving this out.
Competitive action pistol shooting has most if not all of the same issues you talk about for RC racing but there is a strong national (and international) organization that ties it all together. I think you could lay most of the issues you list at the feet of ROAR not being a good enough organization
Stock class should be treated as spec. And the use of entry level Tamiya kits should be encouraged instead of high level racing kits. The DT03 chassis is a prime canadate for this. Edit: I have been thinking a bit about this after posting. A spec class using Associated RTR RB10's would be a viable option too to get started in the hobby.
@sauliluolajan-mikkola620 My point is for using low level 150 kits to get people into the hobby. Most people will walk away from the hobby when they see they have to purchase a 300+ kit to get started. And that doesn't include the electronics. The DT03 also comes with a motor, 17 tooth pinion, and esc. The only additional purchases needed are a battery, servo, and radio. And you don't have to buy top of the line to get started. The DT03 doesn't have a adjustable motor mount. There are holes to use a 17 or 19 tooth pinion.
My only issue with the Privateer, Open and Pro system is track race time. All 3 should get equal time to race. This way ideally the privateers have more track time to improve and move up to open.
Another great video, thanks! After chatting with you, I was astonished to learn that there's no structured regional and national championships in the USA!
Fantastic video Roach considered, thought provoking,..... Never really considered we had it good in the UK.... As I run a class which is unregulated by the BRCA... But as I transition to buggys this year I'll let you know what I think... Visiting the UK in the summer did I catch that correctly?
What does "Stock" even mean in RC racing then? Anywhere else, running something as stock would mean running it the way it came out of the box. IMO there should be a hard push to have more races where modding is minimal as you say so that people can just by the car and race it as it is without being blown out of the water by someone with more money.
except parts that make your car lighter or stronger arent gonna help you win a race. it would be nice however to keep the cost down and prevent the new person from feeling like they have to spend $500 additional to FEEL competitive
You are answering your own question concerning how to expand the hobby. In the US we need a specific governing body to provide the rules, classes, and uniformity of the sport. Just like in major sports there’s a governing body. RC racing has lost its way with that. ROAR, IFMAR, etc. Again, back with I was competitively racing, we had Stock, Modified. Stock was basically what came out of the box, certain size of the motor and battery. You could tinker and adjust as much and as little while staying in that class. Modified was anything works. There were pro and sponsored drivers in both classes. When Losi came out, I had a sponsorship with their stock batteries and motors. I would run them in my RC10, and they would provide those items and pay for big event fees. Today it seems it’s the larger reach of who ever can get the name out. I’d like to see a governing body and simplification for each class. I think that would make the hobby grow.
Nope. Mod-capable ESCs generally run around the same as "blinky" ESCs, outside of a few outliers that are either 1. 1S and meant for 1/12th scale pan cars and 1/10th scale oval cars, or 2. an up-market brand that doesn't actually have much of an advantage over the rest but has additional bells and whistles that might be good for niche applications. At a club level, most people I've seen just run the HobbyWing XERUN or a comparable Tekin or MacLan.
@sauliluolajan-mikkola620 Maybe in offroad. Indoor onroad that is simply not true. Whatever your cost is in tires is far less than the motor and battery war the stock guys go thru.
Great video. I came to the hobby from a slightly different but related one: drone racing. And let me say this: the AMA is a textbook example of what NOT to do as a governing body. Any club affiliated with the AMA required all pilots to be an AMA member, and membership started at $35 per year (probs more now). All you got for that was some insurance (which ive heard horror stories about trying to file a claim on) and a magazine subscription. All the while your field or club got next to nothing in benefit. As a sportsman who regularly gets dusted at club races, I'm all for the idea of a "license" that tracks your race results at member clubs and facilities to try and create a "fair" class system. I think itd be worth an annual fee, but with a few caveats: -$35 per year is too much to spend to get next to no benefit. Honestly if they charged me $10 per year to send me a paper membership card with my ROAR number on it for racing, I'd be in. -if they want to charge more, ROAR would have to provide some sort of benefit support to local tracks, be it stipends for equipment, new literature kits for rule changes, etc. The governing body that all of these tracks would have to become members of should see some benefit for being a member.
limiting tire options is big. so what if the tires aren't optimal for the track. Then everyone is racing with the same amount of high or low grip together.
For a point system to work in the US it has to be free and VERY easy to access for track directors. Along with a very clear set of rules and point awarding system. I’m going to look into RC garage and bring it to the attention of our local track! Thank you!
at my track if its your first time or its the first race of a series you get put in to the first qualifier (heat) randomly. if you have raced in the series previously its based on your last finish. second qualifier (heat) you get put based on how you placed in round 1. and the same with the mains. top 1 or 2 in the mains bumps in to the next class. theres no choosing which class you want to race in.
Oddly enough, in the long run 1/8th scale is cheaper than 1/10th scale, especially 1/8th scale truggies. 1/8th scale platforms generally don't update quite as often, and older equipment remains competitive longer due to how dirt tends to even things out and make car control more important than setup or having the latest kit. I could probably take my 8ight 2.0 out to a race day at All Out RC and, as long as I don't crash and break anything, probably place relatively well, but if I tried to run my 22 1.0 at Beachline I'd probably get my ass kicked.
I am new to the racing side of RC so these are my thoughts as a noob. The biggest source of knowledge and know how comes from current racers and UA-camrs like my man Roach. Frankly, there is no welcome party for new folks and racing is intimidating for someone not accustom to getting their car around a track without crashing. In general, current racers are not very open or social when it comes to explaining things and there are tons of things you need to know just to be able to build a kit let alone trouble shoot a car and how it responds to the current grip of a track surface. My wife makes fun of me for even trying bc she's been to the track with me and she felt even more out of place and stared at. Maybe there needs to be an event where the cars are encouraged to crash while racing in a simple oval... Winner gets a portion of the entry fees. Maybe there needs to be some partnership with local schools where cheap kits are part of a science project and the race night happens at a local track. Maybe the event has to share drivers between a kid and a parent. I know these are ideas that don't exist but if you want to grow the hobby, that starts with new people not feeling like they are just in the way
I'm onboard with getting rid of bruggy bodies. I would prefer to ban them altogether. Bring back Stadium Truck style truggy bodies. I have to buy a HPI Trophy Truggy Flux body to get a stadium truck style body and that model is ancient. No idea how long they will continue to make them.
Well I think you’re just silly Mr Veers 🙄 Bruggy bodies are so dope, no, sexy actually 🤔 Can I just virtue signal a lil here… why are you such a bruggyphobe, who hurt you man 🥺 But fr, I’ve not been able to get a straight answer about why this hast to happen. Why do we have to get rid of Bruggy bodies? It kind of feels arbitrary, capricious even. Like I’m actually asking, I’m only just breaking into the race scene and I have the ET48 2.0 (bruggy body. I’m sure you already know that) I also just bought the JConcepts bruggy body for my MB8TR eco. Pissin me off 😡
The main problem with bruggy bodies is once you put it on a truggy, it ceases to be a truck and is now a 1/7 scale buggy . If that is it's own class then fine but they treat truggy and buggy the same. The whole point of the body is to "fix" a trait. It's a truggy, it's supposed to drive like a truck, not a buggy. I'd even like to see the removal of the wing and just have a spoiler bolted onto the body. Just make bruggies their own class. I don't care if it ended up killing truggy, I'd rather that than have the name truggy besmirched in the name of "optimisation." People need to stop min/maxing all the fun out of everything.
im not a racer i just race at my home track. our local track closed. i have club raced. but if i did race i would not pull over to let others by i think thats silly. if you cant pass me then you dont deserve to get by. no one in full scale racing pulls over to let other racers by. just dont block others from getting by. i dont support roar. its just another not needed expense. they are just trying to make money off of the racing community thats already way to expensive. the reason racing isnt more popular is its not very kid friendly. rc tracks are mostly grown men and most dont seem very friendly and take racing toy cars way to serious. rc racing needs to be more about spending time with family and friends and less about winning.
That was smart content, Mr. Roach. Part 2 was as good as part #1! And no, this was not preachy at all, quite the opposite in fact. I agree that the R/C community needs to be more welcoming to new racers (and to older racers making a comeback) in order to grow. We need "spec" classes with clear and simple rules that limit cost. Not everybody has deep pockets and lots of hours each week to make their cars more competitive.
The biggest thing to help rc grow is to have one class per race day. I dont really race any more because i dont have the time every weekend to race a 14 hour event. And if it was sorter days, you would get more kids into it. My kids like racing but dont have that kind of attention span.
I don't think forcing one class per race day would actually help bring that down as much as you'd think. If you normally have a turnout of 20 stock 2WD, 15 mod 2WD and 10 open 4WD, you're going to end up with 2 heats of stock 2wd, 2 heats of mod 2wd and 1 heat of open 4wd per round of qualifying, totalling 5 heats per race, and then the A and B main for stock 2WD, the A and B main for mod 2WD and then the main for open 4WD, totalling 5 mains. You condense all that to one 2WD open class and, assuming no overlap and that no one just decides to go somewhere else because their preferred class got shut down, you're still going to have 5 heats of qualifying per round and 5 mains. And if you do take drop outs and overlap into account it will probably be around 4 heats per round and 4 mains, which is at most maybe a 10-20 minute reduction in the length of the race day. One recommendation I've seen, though, is that instead of running one round each of each class, then repeating that until you've gotten through your qualifiers, and then running the mains at the end, they could instead run through an entire class all at once, qualifiers and then mains, with breaks to allow for repairs and charging, then run through the next class in the same way, that way instead of having to stay for the whole thing you can just stay for your class's set time slot. Problem with that, though, is figuring out marshalling.
One of the things i feel is that more of the manufacturer needs to invest more in to tracks and rc users, not a few high profile drivers but the lower hobbyists. As it is now its just buy our products you need a tunalyzer its only $200 buy this and that look what our sponsored pro driver got. But far to much of tracks on this globe need more investment from the manufacturers to keep the symbios going of growing and make our hobby bigger and more avalable. Also the format of noob middle and pro is just different names on the same thing as drivers during qualifie sort out what heat they should runn in finals and for sponsored drivers or not that might be another part that i dont got an adea about right now.
As for all the products and gizmos that manufactrers say i need like tunalyzer setup stations carry bags and what not is infact more expensive then my complete car radio carger and everything els i got. For me a calipper and a 90* angle to set the camber make due. Al the fancy brand name pit products dont make me faster on the track. Car stand in the pit is an upside down ikea "samla" storage bin that serves as storage for stuff of the track.
Ran into a somewhat known UA-cam RC racer this weekend at a race this weekend😅 3 of us were new guys and we all had the same feeling about him... Where he talks about in his UA-cam videos how about going up to the fast guys and asking them some questions I was met with cold shoulders and strange looks. I was super glad to be up there with three other people that were new that noticed this so we were able to sit there and sort of see there definitely is a separation it almost feels like some of the guys think they're like Motocross guys like a new age Rockstar Monster Energy duck-billed hat Vibe. I was ready to give up on the whole damn thing after spending $2,500 I literally thought dudes would want to be helpful and s*** and they weren't we're not. I'm just glad that I exchanged numbers with a few of those new guys I met at the hobby shop and I was even able to give one of the guys a 17.5 motor that he needed so that he could start racing so in the end because we were able to talk about it it makes me want to continue with the hobby but also gave me a good Learning lesson that maybe I don't want to hang out with the racer guys or even be up there on club race nights unless it's with the oval guys because the buggy guys even when they're online on UA-cam with thousands of followers acting like nice representatives of the hobby they are not. If I had a UA-cam channel with thousands of followers I would be super kind in public and especially at a RC track where there's lots of people watching. It turned into all three of us watching Pros wreck and lose races and US laughing at it instead of praising them and rooting for them
i dont see why live rc cant bump people up to the next skill level, every track uses live rc for timing, why cant it keep up with how many podiums and or the lap times that sportsman or intermidate drivers have and place everyone in the class that they belong in, seems like track owners dont want to bump people maybe they are afriad the person will stop showing up, but how many people quit bc of the sandbagers? just a idea but if there was a "Bumb System" incorporated in live rc what would be the flaw?
My track has sportsman stock. Stock, super stock, masters stock, and mod. The better you get the higher the class you can go. Mod class everyone is fast. I don’t think mod guys would appreciate someone being in the way
As someone that owns a lot of 1/14 and 1/16 scale with my son, there just isn't enough support for budget friendly options. Most parents can't buy their 5yo a $300+ rc car plus transmitter, batteries, chargers, and tires. And then parts. Just to see if they'll like it. That goes for the parents themselves too. The problem isn't the cost of the rc directly but the stigma of buying a "cheap" model. Here near Tacoma WA we were shunned for trying to race losi mini b or wltoys on open track days. My son was 5 at the time and we had raced on our home made track a ton before trying. The experience we had multiple times going to multiple tracks was always that of negativity and frankly just plain snobbery. It's a shame because his excitement for rc truly was shattered from his experience. We still race a ton at home. We have the means, but will never buy into 1/10 or 1/8 now. If the kids and newbies are never supported then the hobby is bound to fail.
Stop all sponsorships in sportsman or novice classes. Sponsorships belong in the pro level only. People sandbag so that they can show a win to gain sponsorship.
You'll need a single, strong central sanctioning body before there is significant reform. They will have to withstand the anger from racers losing options, and the financial threat from the brands losing income because of outlawed products. Can a unified leadership happen without a near-collapse of racing, though? I hope so. If you want to expand racing, yes, you need classes that encourage the use of mainstream RC cars, not only ultra-specialized race missiles. To expand the sport in general, work with your town to make an RC bashing and crawling spot, tucked into one corner of of your local park. Get RC to a spot where people can actually see it. Hiding it away in metal buildings, and praying that the kids of current racers will all take up the sport (not all will) isn't working very well. More RCers overall means more people getting into racing. Competition, by its very nature, is exclusive. To become healthy and sustaining, it needs to become more inclusive. THANK YOU for caring enough to have the conversation!
"not only ultra-specialized race missiles." You know, the whole move to carpet is why we have these in the first place. Can you believe manufacturers used to make RTRs of their race kits to offset tooling costs? That was back when the race kits could actually tolerate being run on rough, off-road surfaces. Actually, the 1/8th scale scene still has that, at least to some extent. You can get a Serpent SRX8-E or Kyosho Inferno MP10e RTR for less than the race kit, and yet still have the same car as the race kit minus some of the bells and whistles. As for having tracks in more visible areas... it's difficult. The reason why tracks are "hidden away" in metal buildings is because, at least for 1/10th scale, the desired track surfaces (carpet and sealed clay) can't really be built outdoors. Meanwhile 1/8th scale tracks kick up a lot of dust and, if they run nitro, constantly run into issues with noise ordinances.
@@VestedUTuber Those are great points, thanks for the reply. I wasn't really thinking about putting race tracks in visible areas, but to have bash and crawl spots, thinking that by encouraging RC in general, the (hopefully) increased participation would also result in more racers. Planting seeds, if you will. I'm for more racing, provided it's affordable and friendly. Regarding 1:8 nitro: I personally dislike the horrible sound they make, but understand that most men love anything loud. A strong sanction could make the switch to electric, and have the racers wear headphones linked to the radio's throttle channel if they need their sound fix. But humans' resistance to change will always be strong, so...
@@guest6423 The reason why nitro is still around isn't just the sound. The cars behave very differently, with less immediate torque and smoother power delivery, which means maintaining corner speed is both easier _and_ more important with them than it is with e-buggies and e-truggies which can point-and-shoot. You also have to take pit strategy into account, as nitro mains run anywhere from 20 to 60 minutes vs 5 to 8 for electric. In a way, it's a more complete racing experience.
They need to start streaming big events on twitch and get kids hooked. Also manufacturers need to more active on social media and partner with celebrity drivers like Lewis Hamilton and Tony Stewart and bring their followers in the sport
So, the thing with ROAR... I'm glad they're getting more involved in making sure the sport can grow, however I can't agree with actively requiring membership. If they want to do a leaderboard system it should be an automatic "enter a ROAR sanctioned event and you're automatically in the system" sort of thing. Requiring membership would be a turn-off for people coming into the sport, not just because of "American individualism" but also because of increased costs and being told "you're not a member, get the fuck out of here" if someone shows up without knowing they need to be a member.
We need structure like BMX with USA BMX formally aba , wins bump your class district , state national points same rules everywhere, but this could get tricky with roar approved things being needed sending the costs up , or maybe just dump stock and roar approved anything see below . As racers we need to do more to lessen anxiety for new racers and get them racing. Helping with what we can and clear communication with rules and equip requirements etc. Stock needs to go away , just be done with it, 1/8 is cheaper than indoor 17.5 electric. Sponsored racers is a whole hours long subject. Not sure where to start with it because without at least tire deals a lot of people could not race, maybe that goes back to your spec tire comment.
Well, there's always been a bunch of different car classes. It's just that you didn't see all of them at the same track. And you still generally don't. 1/10th scale off-road classes tend to run on indoor carpet tracks, while 1/8th scale off-road (plus 4WD SCT and 1/10th scale nitro truck) tends to run on outdoor dirt tracks. Tracks that run both 1/10th and 1/8th scale off-road classes are rare. It's more common to see a glut of classes based on car type in the on road scene where you have 1/12th scale pan car, 1/10th scale pan car, 1/10th scale touring car, 1/10th scale FWD, TT02 Spec, 1/8th scale GT AND 1/8th scale GP.
The hardest thing is finding a good track. And one that has decent people who don't take it too seriously. Been to loads where they are all like robots. Acting like they are a one man F1 team. One I went to a couple of years ago I joked about that I charge my lips on NIMH mode thats why im a little faster on the straight. 2 stood up and started to berate me telling me I was a fool. And telling me I as what was wrong with the hobby and putting lives at risk... So instead of shoving an overcharged Lipo up there buts I just left and never went back to that one. But you'll find most of the clubs here in the UK are run by people just like that. Stiff robots with not an ounce of humour. Basically 50 year old virgins who eat the same meal every single day.
I think somebody will cheat that way because they find it more easier to tell somebody that don't know how to drive compared to somebody that does making it up like that it's a great idea it just need to be it needs to be enforced to make sure everybody knows The right way keep people happy in haddy
I haven’t been into RC since 2002, so I’m curious to know what happened to ROAR? It seemed like they were the default back when I was subscribed to RC Car Action and spent time at the hobby shop or just driving on quiet suburban streets. What made them lose credibility and how long has that been the case?
I'll be honest it's hard to say. It was a mixture of playing fast and loose with rules to favor certain teams, outdated rules in general, and no real push from them to make RC bigger. Under Clayton things seem to be different but a bad reputation is hard to get rid of
… as someone who has won many races.. those fancy parts dont make you race clean… those fancy parts usually weigh more… theres only a FEW parts that are lighter, and arent so vast they are unobtainable… the plastic parts your car comes with is the lightest stuff you’ll get… bearings arent winning you races… titanium turnbuckles arent winning races…. Its just the truth… start practicing… ive NEVER owned a vehicle that wasnt already 2 generations behind current… none of that crap matters… nobody reading this is losing by 10ths… your losing by seconds…per lap…
So you've never seen Traxxas sponsor an 800hp stadium super truck, baja truck, rally car or NHRA dragster with their name plastered on the side? 😂 You must be new to motorsports....
@4:10 Excellent work @RoachRC! There are so many thoughts rolling in my head at 11:50p, but I'll try to consolidate everything...
First, yes, I firmly believe RC can and must have a more organized format of racing to break away from the bad habits we all play a part of. My gripe with the Sponsored-Sportsman debate 😮 is that we have never defined what these words mean... anywhere... so, of course, people abuse it! The idea of the Sportsman class began as entry level, but now it means some combination of "KWOWN but not FAST" and racers call foul because of an implied financial and knowledge discrepancy amongst competitors... Sponsor no longer just means skill. It also means influence within your community. I, too, sometimes say to myself, "How did [name] get on with [brand]?" The answer isn't on the final running order. It's how [name] carries [brand] on and off the track..
Next, the definitions... heres how I believe we should correct these classifications:
•Sport/Intermediate/Expert (SIE), can be defined as a split determined by SKILL LEVEL. Full stop. Racers can register where they see fit. However, if qualified within the Top 5 of the next level, they are moved up.
•Privateer 0%/Open0-75%/Pro 75-100% (POP), can be defined as a split determined by CHASSIS LEVEL SPONSORSHIP. Full stop. Structure the Pro classes, as they should be, let us crazy open drivers have fun at the track OR try to make a name for ourselves in an effort to earn PRO status, and we should also consider shortening the Privateer race day SIGNIFICANTLY so Pravateers don't have to be there all day/weekend.
Dollars to donuts, if it's not a 3-day event, every track should be running a version of SIE, but we can't continie to apply the same rules at home to our arena races when they're suppose to be more prestigious than the avg club level events.
Finally, if you have any issues with the current understanding at your local track, politely ask them to better define what these classes are.
Filling a car with upgrades is a perversion of the term "stock". Eurotruck is a great ruleset.
What we need are more casual parking lot races, just simple events for hobbyists to together and run some races in public where people can spectate, or just show off some of their collection. Too many race tracks are hidden away and out of sight, let alone far too serious.
Sometime between 2004 and 2017 skill level based classes were created. in my opinion this was a big mistake. In the past we would have one open class for each type of vehicle. Re-sorts during qualifying would place you with other drivers of similar pace. By mains the rankings were sorted out. The winner of every lower main, top 3 of A main, and TQ would receive a trophy. Top 3 of each main (upper and lower) would have a podium picture taken of them. A-mains were 30-60 minutes, B-mains were 15-30 minutes, and all other lower mains were 10-15 minutes.
This is a great way to structure a program for many reasons:
1) Everyone has a shot at a podium.
2) Everyone has a shot at taking home some hardware.
3) Heats are filled, and having enough turn marshals is not an issue.
4) The program runs faster due to having less overall heats and mains.
5) Mass majority of racers get more track time. The racing program time savings can be redistributed to the lower mains.
6) Sand bagging is not possible.
7) Shorter race days due to the consolidated program.
8) Promotes a racing environment where drivers are indirectly pushed to improve.
Bottom Line: The RC community needs to take a hard look at how we did things in the past. Maybe we go a full circle?
Great video! I recently came back to RC and I was blow away by how disjoined the state of RC is. You should cover 1:28 racing like the Reflex and Atomic cars, its exploding in the US and internationally. The 1:28 racing community is actively working together to standardize the various classes, box stock, stock spec, mod and open. IFMAR is even considering reviewing the scale.
Time to go back to the old school way of mains and only mains. No more of these "trophy" hunting divisions. Mains A through Z only. Awards for top 3 and only top 3 in mains A to C. You want an $8 trophy, get better. Spend money on tires and not pretty bench racing items. Finally, there's more people racing today then at anytime in the history of our hobby, yet, everyone is talking about how to save or grow racing. That said, there's a reason why racing is the smallest segment of the the rc hobby. Bashing, crawling, flying etc is more fun because it's less structured and cheaper to participate in. Want racing to grow, make it fun and "racers" need to get over themselves.
As for Stock class, nothing wrong with it. No one actually thinks it's a beginner or entry level class anymore. It's as Lefty called it, Spec Mod. It's a completely open money pit class with a motor rule. Locally we run a spec mini b class. Box stock with the exception of pro-line carpet tires. Shock oil and diff grease are the driver's choice then rest is OEM only. That's an entry level class.
@@trevorfurlotte
"No one actually thinks it's a beginner or entry level class anymore."
And yet it _constantly_ gets recommended as one at most tracks.
@VestedUTuber whoever recommendeds it as a beginner class must be looking for customers.
@@trevorfurlotte
Except it's not just the track owners or store owners recommending it. It's a lot of the other racers too. The logic is actually understandable in a vacuum - stock is a lower-powered class than a typical mod setup and thus the cars are slower and easier to learn on. Problem is, they don't consider the money pit issue, because it's not an issue that affects them, or at least doesn't affect them to nearly the same degree since they're already established.
Honestly, spec classes are the best way to go for newcomers, but many tracks don't run a spec class, and most of the common spec-class chassis, particularly the Traxxas Slash and Bandit, aren't really something that can grow with the driver once they're ready to move up to a faster class. When that happens, the only other options are stock and mod. And, unfortunately, a lot of people are going to fall back to the whole "start in stock" rule of thumb, even though mod with a mild setup would be more ideal.
@@VestedUTuber as someone who started the hobby in mod, I couldn't give you more than one like, or I would've.
Know it all preacher... lol. Your videos are great brother. You have a great perspective. My immediate thought was that local tracks would need to be much better at teching and officiating. LiveRC would provide a perfect platform upon which to build a tiered class system that is based on driver performance.
I am actually fairly new to RC. I admit I haven’t been to a “big” race yet, but our local track does pretty much start every new racer with a slash, spec racing is actually the most fun race and everyone gets into it even though they aren’t the fastest race that day or night and everyone pretty much is laughing and having a good time and I think that is what RC is really. We treat it like a big family event. I like this video, I was unaware of the process in Europe and think that some kind of rank system would work in the right setting. Great video!
We need more mini leagues. 10 scale is great, but you can't expect ppl go into the hobby spending 500+ on a 2w drive buggy.
As far as I remember from back when I cared enough to window shop: Minis aren't any cheaper than 1/10. Unless you're talking 1/18 and 1/24.
My dad and I have been talking about developing a new 1/18 car and series, locally perhaps at first. Entire focus is on accessibility and keeping costs down. Cars are super simple and easy to make from scratch if desired. Easy to setup temporary tracks in garages, sheds, basketball courts, auditoriums, etc. any sufficiently large space we can get access to. Temporary carpet tracks.
@@SoloRenegade Temporary Astro and Carpet tracks are how they get it done across the pond. They literally have clubs and the club organizers have sections of pre-built track and loose astro/carpet that they piece together on location and can even have a different size and/or layout every race weekend depending on the available venues.
@@Drunken_Hamster we've done it that way in the US for decades. I grew up racing on indoor carpet tracks with my Dad. 1/10th oval, road course, and then 4wd touring car as well. did it in multiple states from the 1980s to early 2000s. And now we're thinking of trying to get it possibly going against in our area with 1/18 because it opens up more possible venues without the need for an established track nor a hobby shop. If it works I'd build the cars and supply parts for the cars myself, as well as help people learn to make them as well if so desired. 1/18th scale also keeps costs down and keeps the cars simple in design and construction. Makes it more accessible to entry level drivers, and more fun too. And I can create a STEM program with them as well.
@@SoloRenegade I can't find 'em. And I damn sure can't find any permanent tracks local to me aside from dirt ovals. Which are pretty effing useless since I want to either drift onroad (secondary) or do something with jumps(primary), and don't even really want to bother with dirt, at all, if I can avoid it.
Late to the party but here's a few random thoughts: I think a large part of the problem with sportsman/intermediate/pro is that you get the most value for your entry fee when you make an a-main. Like, if you spent $100 to race a big event and you qual into a C main and you get 1x 5 minute final you'll feel kind of ripped off when you see the fast guys get hour long nitro mains or triple a-mains. IMO, there needs to be less of a disparity in the value proposition for someone who makes the F main vs someone who makes the A main. We're all paying the same entry fee, we should all fee like we're getting the same experience for that money. IMO that's why sandbagging can be a problem (like when you have guys like JQ running in the intermediate class, can't believe racetime let that happen).
And honestly, I think that's the crux of the problem - RC racing has a major problem justifying the experience you get vs the price you pay. You spend $1k+ on a rig that you can only run at special tracks, and you spend $20 on an entry for a local club race where you get 20 minutes max of runtime out of an event with a time commitment ranging from 6 to 10+ hours. And depending on the surface you run on, you burn through $50 sets of tires in a single race night. And if you want more track time, you need to buy a whole new car for a different class. The solutions to these problems are all pretty simple - limit race nights to 1 entry per driver to keep the program short, encourage spec/box stock classes to keep it cheap, and stop running on surfaces that eat tires. But whenever you suggest these sorts of things all the "hardcore" racers balk and don't understand why you'd even consider any of those things.
You should look into the Mudboss class that's big in dirt oval. Those guys have figured out how to run a box stock class and keep it cheap while keeping it competitive so you can race for cheap even if you're a good driver - that's another fatal mistake I think a lot of spec racing fall into. Making it beginner only and treating it as a class you eventually "graduate out of." I think spec classes need talented drivers and strong competition in order to survive, and the Mudboss class seems to be proving this out.
Competitive action pistol shooting has most if not all of the same issues you talk about for RC racing but there is a strong national (and international) organization that ties it all together. I think you could lay most of the issues you list at the feet of ROAR not being a good enough organization
proof I watched whole video - I don't like Traxxas or horizon hobbies either 😉
you really deserve more subs
Same here, they've kinda ruined the LHS experience.
Definitely gonna have to get my start with the Euro trucks
Stock class should be treated as spec. And the use of entry level Tamiya kits should be encouraged instead of high level racing kits. The DT03 chassis is a prime canadate for this. Edit: I have been thinking a bit about this after posting. A spec class using Associated RTR RB10's would be a viable option too to get started in the hobby.
I've been looking into the Racing Fighter as of recent, I've heard the DT02 and DT03 cup is very big in the UK
@sauliluolajan-mikkola620 My point is for using low level 150 kits to get people into the hobby. Most people will walk away from the hobby when they see they have to purchase a 300+ kit to get started. And that doesn't include the electronics. The DT03 also comes with a motor, 17 tooth pinion, and esc. The only additional purchases needed are a battery, servo, and radio. And you don't have to buy top of the line to get started.
The DT03 doesn't have a adjustable motor mount. There are holes to use a 17 or 19 tooth pinion.
My only issue with the Privateer, Open and Pro system is track race time. All 3 should get equal time to race. This way ideally the privateers have more track time to improve and move up to open.
keep the opening tunes, and grow yourself a moustache. great video by the way.
Another great video, thanks!
After chatting with you, I was astonished to learn that there's no structured regional and national championships in the USA!
100% agree on your thoughts on stock racing!
Fantastic video Roach considered, thought provoking,..... Never really considered we had it good in the UK.... As I run a class which is unregulated by the BRCA... But as I transition to buggys this year I'll let you know what I think... Visiting the UK in the summer did I catch that correctly?
Another great video Roach!
Very nice video. Great research and presentation of all the pros and cons
There was a big ROAR event back in 1991 at RCHR that I raced in and they provided the motors for the stock class.
rchr in waterbury?
Big track in Arizona makes all stock motors fixed timing. I think that’s what stock should be
Your thoughts on spec racing are awesome!
What does "Stock" even mean in RC racing then? Anywhere else, running something as stock would mean running it the way it came out of the box. IMO there should be a hard push to have more races where modding is minimal as you say so that people can just by the car and race it as it is without being blown out of the water by someone with more money.
except parts that make your car lighter or stronger arent gonna help you win a race. it would be nice however to keep the cost down and prevent the new person from feeling like they have to spend $500 additional to FEEL competitive
You are answering your own question concerning how to expand the hobby. In the US we need a specific governing body to provide the rules, classes, and uniformity of the sport. Just like in major sports there’s a governing body. RC racing has lost its way with that. ROAR, IFMAR, etc. Again, back with I was competitively racing, we had Stock, Modified. Stock was basically what came out of the box, certain size of the motor and battery. You could tinker and adjust as much and as little while staying in that class. Modified was anything works. There were pro and sponsored drivers in both classes. When Losi came out, I had a sponsorship with their stock batteries and motors. I would run them in my RC10, and they would provide those items and pay for big event fees. Today it seems it’s the larger reach of who ever can get the name out. I’d like to see a governing body and simplification for each class. I think that would make the hobby grow.
Wonder if RC manufacturers ever thought of getting a deal with Epic games, have it feature an RC car in Rocket League
Mod gets just as expensive if you get the good esc
Nope. Mod-capable ESCs generally run around the same as "blinky" ESCs, outside of a few outliers that are either 1. 1S and meant for 1/12th scale pan cars and 1/10th scale oval cars, or 2. an up-market brand that doesn't actually have much of an advantage over the rest but has additional bells and whistles that might be good for niche applications. At a club level, most people I've seen just run the HobbyWing XERUN or a comparable Tekin or MacLan.
@sauliluolajan-mikkola620
Maybe in offroad. Indoor onroad that is simply not true.
Whatever your cost is in tires is far less than the motor and battery war the stock guys go thru.
Great video.
I came to the hobby from a slightly different but related one: drone racing. And let me say this: the AMA is a textbook example of what NOT to do as a governing body. Any club affiliated with the AMA required all pilots to be an AMA member, and membership started at $35 per year (probs more now). All you got for that was some insurance (which ive heard horror stories about trying to file a claim on) and a magazine subscription. All the while your field or club got next to nothing in benefit.
As a sportsman who regularly gets dusted at club races, I'm all for the idea of a "license" that tracks your race results at member clubs and facilities to try and create a "fair" class system. I think itd be worth an annual fee, but with a few caveats:
-$35 per year is too much to spend to get next to no benefit. Honestly if they charged me $10 per year to send me a paper membership card with my ROAR number on it for racing, I'd be in.
-if they want to charge more, ROAR would have to provide some sort of benefit support to local tracks, be it stipends for equipment, new literature kits for rule changes, etc. The governing body that all of these tracks would have to become members of should see some benefit for being a member.
limiting tire options is big. so what if the tires aren't optimal for the track. Then everyone is racing with the same amount of high or low grip together.
for a points system we do have rc garage that keeps track of race results
For a point system to work in the US it has to be free and VERY easy to access for track directors. Along with a very clear set of rules and point awarding system. I’m going to look into RC garage and bring it to the attention of our local track! Thank you!
@@bhowell95 I think anything on live rc goes on there I could be wrong though. But my race history on there goes back like 7 years
Roar needs to implement a license system like the uro groups do. That goes a long way to fixing sand bagging.
at my track if its your first time or its the first race of a series you get put in to the first qualifier (heat) randomly. if you have raced in the series previously its based on your last finish. second qualifier (heat) you get put based on how you placed in round 1. and the same with the mains. top 1 or 2 in the mains bumps in to the next class. theres no choosing which class you want to race in.
At this point it is all expensive if you want to race. That’s why I had to get out of it after only doing it for a year
Oddly enough, in the long run 1/8th scale is cheaper than 1/10th scale, especially 1/8th scale truggies. 1/8th scale platforms generally don't update quite as often, and older equipment remains competitive longer due to how dirt tends to even things out and make car control more important than setup or having the latest kit. I could probably take my 8ight 2.0 out to a race day at All Out RC and, as long as I don't crash and break anything, probably place relatively well, but if I tried to run my 22 1.0 at Beachline I'd probably get my ass kicked.
I am new to the racing side of RC so these are my thoughts as a noob. The biggest source of knowledge and know how comes from current racers and UA-camrs like my man Roach.
Frankly, there is no welcome party for new folks and racing is intimidating for someone not accustom to getting their car around a track without crashing. In general, current racers are not very open or social when it comes to explaining things and there are tons of things you need to know just to be able to build a kit let alone trouble shoot a car and how it responds to the current grip of a track surface. My wife makes fun of me for even trying bc she's been to the track with me and she felt even more out of place and stared at. Maybe there needs to be an event where the cars are encouraged to crash while racing in a simple oval... Winner gets a portion of the entry fees. Maybe there needs to be some partnership with local schools where cheap kits are part of a science project and the race night happens at a local track. Maybe the event has to share drivers between a kid and a parent. I know these are ideas that don't exist but if you want to grow the hobby, that starts with new people not feeling like they are just in the way
id still like to see my super stock and pro stock rulesets be implimented. atleast on carpet where it would make a difference
Gotta get it into o the public eye
I'm onboard with getting rid of bruggy bodies. I would prefer to ban them altogether. Bring back Stadium Truck style truggy bodies. I have to buy a HPI Trophy Truggy Flux body to get a stadium truck style body and that model is ancient. No idea how long they will continue to make them.
Well I think you’re just silly Mr Veers 🙄 Bruggy bodies are so dope, no, sexy actually 🤔
Can I just virtue signal a lil here… why are you such a bruggyphobe, who hurt you man 🥺
But fr, I’ve not been able to get a straight answer about why this hast to happen. Why do we have to get rid of Bruggy bodies? It kind of feels arbitrary, capricious even. Like I’m actually asking, I’m only just breaking into the race scene and I have the ET48 2.0 (bruggy body. I’m sure you already know that) I also just bought the JConcepts bruggy body for my MB8TR eco.
Pissin me off 😡
Why did I use so many emojis? What am I 12? 🤦♂️
The main problem with bruggy bodies is once you put it on a truggy, it ceases to be a truck and is now a 1/7 scale buggy . If that is it's own class then fine but they treat truggy and buggy the same. The whole point of the body is to "fix" a trait. It's a truggy, it's supposed to drive like a truck, not a buggy. I'd even like to see the removal of the wing and just have a spoiler bolted onto the body. Just make bruggies their own class. I don't care if it ended up killing truggy, I'd rather that than have the name truggy besmirched in the name of "optimisation." People need to stop min/maxing all the fun out of everything.
@@CplVeers I’m just trying to debate you, no hostile intentions at all. If you want me to fuck off i will, I’m not seeking conflict.
im not a racer i just race at my home track. our local track closed. i have club raced. but if i did race i would not pull over to let others by i think thats silly. if you cant pass me then you dont deserve to get by. no one in full scale racing pulls over to let other racers by. just dont block others from getting by.
i dont support roar. its just another not needed expense. they are just trying to make money off of the racing community thats already way to expensive.
the reason racing isnt more popular is its not very kid friendly. rc tracks are mostly grown men and most dont seem very friendly and take racing toy cars way to serious. rc racing needs to be more about spending time with family and friends and less about winning.
That was smart content, Mr. Roach. Part 2 was as good as part #1! And no, this was not preachy at all, quite the opposite in fact. I agree that the R/C community needs to be more welcoming to new racers (and to older racers making a comeback) in order to grow. We need "spec" classes with clear and simple rules that limit cost. Not everybody has deep pockets and lots of hours each week to make their cars more competitive.
Nice info video woooo😊
Just introduce drivers license classes via reached average times per track, possibly with yearly renewal via demonstration. Or something like that?
The biggest thing to help rc grow is to have one class per race day. I dont really race any more because i dont have the time every weekend to race a 14 hour event. And if it was sorter days, you would get more kids into it. My kids like racing but dont have that kind of attention span.
I don't think forcing one class per race day would actually help bring that down as much as you'd think. If you normally have a turnout of 20 stock 2WD, 15 mod 2WD and 10 open 4WD, you're going to end up with 2 heats of stock 2wd, 2 heats of mod 2wd and 1 heat of open 4wd per round of qualifying, totalling 5 heats per race, and then the A and B main for stock 2WD, the A and B main for mod 2WD and then the main for open 4WD, totalling 5 mains. You condense all that to one 2WD open class and, assuming no overlap and that no one just decides to go somewhere else because their preferred class got shut down, you're still going to have 5 heats of qualifying per round and 5 mains. And if you do take drop outs and overlap into account it will probably be around 4 heats per round and 4 mains, which is at most maybe a 10-20 minute reduction in the length of the race day.
One recommendation I've seen, though, is that instead of running one round each of each class, then repeating that until you've gotten through your qualifiers, and then running the mains at the end, they could instead run through an entire class all at once, qualifiers and then mains, with breaks to allow for repairs and charging, then run through the next class in the same way, that way instead of having to stay for the whole thing you can just stay for your class's set time slot. Problem with that, though, is figuring out marshalling.
One of the things i feel is that more of the manufacturer needs to invest more in to tracks and rc users, not a few high profile drivers but the lower hobbyists.
As it is now its just buy our products you need a tunalyzer its only $200 buy this and that look what our sponsored pro driver got.
But far to much of tracks on this globe need more investment from the manufacturers to keep the symbios going of growing and make our hobby bigger and more avalable.
Also the format of noob middle and pro is just different names on the same thing as drivers during qualifie sort out what heat they should runn in finals and for sponsored drivers or not that might be another part that i dont got an adea about right now.
As for all the products and gizmos that manufactrers say i need like tunalyzer setup stations carry bags and what not is infact more expensive then my complete car radio carger and everything els i got.
For me a calipper and a 90* angle to set the camber make due.
Al the fancy brand name pit products dont make me faster on the track.
Car stand in the pit is an upside down ikea "samla" storage bin that serves as storage for stuff of the track.
Just my opinion, but maybe only offer financial insensitive for pro, and just lame token gifts for anything under.
Ran into a somewhat known UA-cam RC racer this weekend at a race this weekend😅
3 of us were new guys and we all had the same feeling about him...
Where he talks about in his UA-cam videos how about going up to the fast guys and asking them some questions I was met with cold shoulders and strange looks.
I was super glad to be up there with three other people that were new that noticed this so we were able to sit there and sort of see there definitely is a separation it almost feels like some of the guys think they're like Motocross guys like a new age Rockstar Monster Energy duck-billed hat Vibe.
I was ready to give up on the whole damn thing after spending $2,500 I literally thought dudes would want to be helpful and s*** and they weren't we're not.
I'm just glad that I exchanged numbers with a few of those new guys I met at the hobby shop and I was even able to give one of the guys a 17.5 motor that he needed so that he could start racing so in the end because we were able to talk about it it makes me want to continue with the hobby but also gave me a good Learning lesson that maybe I don't want to hang out with the racer guys or even be up there on club race nights unless it's with the oval guys because the buggy guys even when they're online on UA-cam with thousands of followers acting like nice representatives of the hobby they are not.
If I had a UA-cam channel with thousands of followers I would be super kind in public and especially at a RC track where there's lots of people watching.
It turned into all three of us watching Pros wreck and lose races and US laughing at it instead of praising them and rooting for them
i dont see why live rc cant bump people up to the next skill level, every track uses live rc for timing, why cant it keep up with how many podiums and or the lap times that sportsman or intermidate drivers have and place everyone in the class that they belong in, seems like track owners dont want to bump people maybe they are afriad the person will stop showing up, but how many people quit bc of the sandbagers? just a idea but if there was a "Bumb System" incorporated in live rc what would be the flaw?
My track has sportsman stock. Stock, super stock, masters stock, and mod. The better you get the higher the class you can go. Mod class everyone is fast. I don’t think mod guys would appreciate someone being in the way
As someone that owns a lot of 1/14 and 1/16 scale with my son, there just isn't enough support for budget friendly options.
Most parents can't buy their 5yo a $300+ rc car plus transmitter, batteries, chargers, and tires. And then parts. Just to see if they'll like it. That goes for the parents themselves too.
The problem isn't the cost of the rc directly but the stigma of buying a "cheap" model. Here near Tacoma WA we were shunned for trying to race losi mini b or wltoys on open track days. My son was 5 at the time and we had raced on our home made track a ton before trying. The experience we had multiple times going to multiple tracks was always that of negativity and frankly just plain snobbery.
It's a shame because his excitement for rc truly was shattered from his experience. We still race a ton at home. We have the means, but will never buy into 1/10 or 1/8 now. If the kids and newbies are never supported then the hobby is bound to fail.
Have you been to the track at 2:30 ? Thats my local track rocck racing. It’s great
I was there once before, I had planned on making it for a few state races but life happens you know
Stop all sponsorships in sportsman or novice classes. Sponsorships belong in the pro level only. People sandbag so that they can show a win to gain sponsorship.
You'll need a single, strong central sanctioning body before there is significant reform. They will have to withstand the anger from racers losing options, and the financial threat from the brands losing income because of outlawed products. Can a unified leadership happen without a near-collapse of racing, though? I hope so.
If you want to expand racing, yes, you need classes that encourage the use of mainstream RC cars, not only ultra-specialized race missiles. To expand the sport in general, work with your town to make an RC bashing and crawling spot, tucked into one corner of of your local park. Get RC to a spot where people can actually see it. Hiding it away in metal buildings, and praying that the kids of current racers will all take up the sport (not all will) isn't working very well. More RCers overall means more people getting into racing. Competition, by its very nature, is exclusive. To become healthy and sustaining, it needs to become more inclusive.
THANK YOU for caring enough to have the conversation!
"not only ultra-specialized race missiles."
You know, the whole move to carpet is why we have these in the first place. Can you believe manufacturers used to make RTRs of their race kits to offset tooling costs? That was back when the race kits could actually tolerate being run on rough, off-road surfaces.
Actually, the 1/8th scale scene still has that, at least to some extent. You can get a Serpent SRX8-E or Kyosho Inferno MP10e RTR for less than the race kit, and yet still have the same car as the race kit minus some of the bells and whistles.
As for having tracks in more visible areas... it's difficult. The reason why tracks are "hidden away" in metal buildings is because, at least for 1/10th scale, the desired track surfaces (carpet and sealed clay) can't really be built outdoors. Meanwhile 1/8th scale tracks kick up a lot of dust and, if they run nitro, constantly run into issues with noise ordinances.
@@VestedUTuber Those are great points, thanks for the reply. I wasn't really thinking about putting race tracks in visible areas, but to have bash and crawl spots, thinking that by encouraging RC in general, the (hopefully) increased participation would also result in more racers. Planting seeds, if you will. I'm for more racing, provided it's affordable and friendly. Regarding 1:8 nitro: I personally dislike the horrible sound they make, but understand that most men love anything loud. A strong sanction could make the switch to electric, and have the racers wear headphones linked to the radio's throttle channel if they need their sound fix. But humans' resistance to change will always be strong, so...
@@guest6423
The reason why nitro is still around isn't just the sound. The cars behave very differently, with less immediate torque and smoother power delivery, which means maintaining corner speed is both easier _and_ more important with them than it is with e-buggies and e-truggies which can point-and-shoot. You also have to take pit strategy into account, as nitro mains run anywhere from 20 to 60 minutes vs 5 to 8 for electric. In a way, it's a more complete racing experience.
@@VestedUTuber I appreciate those thoughts, especially regarding the endurance aspect.
They need to start streaming big events on twitch and get kids hooked. Also manufacturers need to more active on social media and partner with celebrity drivers like Lewis Hamilton and Tony Stewart and bring their followers in the sport
So, the thing with ROAR... I'm glad they're getting more involved in making sure the sport can grow, however I can't agree with actively requiring membership. If they want to do a leaderboard system it should be an automatic "enter a ROAR sanctioned event and you're automatically in the system" sort of thing. Requiring membership would be a turn-off for people coming into the sport, not just because of "American individualism" but also because of increased costs and being told "you're not a member, get the fuck out of here" if someone shows up without knowing they need to be a member.
I disagree. But they have to do it and then people will join. Not the other way around
@@danjones4002
Could you elaborate on why you disagree?
I’ll be pissed if I show up someday and I need to pay a roar membership fee
We need structure like BMX with USA BMX formally aba , wins bump your class district , state national points same rules everywhere, but this could get tricky with roar approved things being needed sending the costs up , or maybe just dump stock and roar approved anything see below .
As racers we need to do more to lessen anxiety for new racers and get them racing. Helping with what we can and clear communication with rules and equip requirements etc.
Stock needs to go away , just be done with it, 1/8 is cheaper than indoor 17.5 electric.
Sponsored racers is a whole hours long subject. Not sure where to start with it because without at least tire deals a lot of people could not race, maybe that goes back to your spec tire comment.
I missed just running Nitro buggy Nitro truggy there's too many classes of cars it's not just the different skill levels
Well, there's always been a bunch of different car classes. It's just that you didn't see all of them at the same track. And you still generally don't. 1/10th scale off-road classes tend to run on indoor carpet tracks, while 1/8th scale off-road (plus 4WD SCT and 1/10th scale nitro truck) tends to run on outdoor dirt tracks. Tracks that run both 1/10th and 1/8th scale off-road classes are rare. It's more common to see a glut of classes based on car type in the on road scene where you have 1/12th scale pan car, 1/10th scale pan car, 1/10th scale touring car, 1/10th scale FWD, TT02 Spec, 1/8th scale GT AND 1/8th scale GP.
The hardest thing is finding a good track. And one that has decent people who don't take it too seriously.
Been to loads where they are all like robots. Acting like they are a one man F1 team.
One I went to a couple of years ago I joked about that I charge my lips on NIMH mode thats why im a little faster on the straight.
2 stood up and started to berate me telling me I was a fool. And telling me I as what was wrong with the hobby and putting lives at risk...
So instead of shoving an overcharged Lipo up there buts I just left and never went back to that one.
But you'll find most of the clubs here in the UK are run by people just like that. Stiff robots with not an ounce of humour. Basically 50 year old virgins who eat the same meal every single day.
I think somebody will cheat that way because they find it more easier to tell somebody that don't know how to drive compared to somebody that does making it up like that it's a great idea it just need to be it needs to be enforced to make sure everybody knows The right way keep people happy in haddy
I haven’t been into RC since 2002, so I’m curious to know what happened to ROAR? It seemed like they were the default back when I was subscribed to RC Car Action and spent time at the hobby shop or just driving on quiet suburban streets. What made them lose credibility and how long has that been the case?
I'll be honest it's hard to say. It was a mixture of playing fast and loose with rules to favor certain teams, outdated rules in general, and no real push from them to make RC bigger.
Under Clayton things seem to be different but a bad reputation is hard to get rid of
Racing RC cars is 1-2 % of the hobby... Bashing, crawling, boating, flying, collecting is 90% and re-sell is the rest.
… as someone who has won many races.. those fancy parts dont make you race clean… those fancy parts usually weigh more… theres only a FEW parts that are lighter, and arent so vast they are unobtainable… the plastic parts your car comes with is the lightest stuff you’ll get… bearings arent winning you races… titanium turnbuckles arent winning races…. Its just the truth… start practicing… ive NEVER owned a vehicle that wasnt already 2 generations behind current… none of that crap matters… nobody reading this is losing by 10ths… your losing by seconds…per lap…
So you've never seen Traxxas sponsor an 800hp stadium super truck, baja truck, rally car or NHRA dragster with their name plastered on the side? 😂 You must be new to motorsports....
That was my point. Traxxas and Horizon do that. Other racing companies like AE and Schumacher don't
@@RoachRCTeam associated and losi have both sponsored pro motocross teams.