If you're 'learning' to use a camera, you can't effectively test it. Better to just shoot it until you're comfortable, then conduct whatever analysis you want.
Wow, some are really going in hard on you but I appreciated you honesty. You could have not posted the video. I like this video because of your integrity. In the future, I'd say only test cameras you are familiar with! Your analysis of what you did wrong actually helped me though!
Jersey Filmmaker it was the firmware update the also added the HDR function. That firmware is on both versions of the fs5. I myself was happy about that update. Will you be running this test again? I want to see if the eva1 is better or not 😎
Parallax Peak thanks! Shows you how much I shoot with my FS5 lol. I’ve never been overly pleased with it and was hoping the EVA-1 was going to be the replacement, but definitely not after these tests. I’d like to redo them, but not sure if and when I will
The test was great because it shows that cameras are tools and you have to know your tool to use it well. Any camera in this price bracket can make a great image, equally any can make an aweful one. There is a lot of nonsense about cameras being junk when another brand releases their version. The reality is the differences can be quite subtle and specs dont tell the whole story. Test things to see if they meet your needs. Enjoyed the vid bud, I would love to have a play in that place!
Do you think it's possible to match the images between both cameras to cut together for interviews or are the colours too different? I Would like to match an Eva1 with my a7s. Thanks guys
Jersey Filmmaker any particular Lut or color grading or straight out of the cameras? They say Sony colors suck but I kind of like them. Also are you using the AF? If so it seems pretty good. I bought a Sony 28-135 F4 lens and I'm waiting to match it with a sony body... I'm split between the Sony FS7 I (Used at $4k) the FS5 II also around $4k... which one would u go for? THe new color science of the FS5 II or the Full body / full features of the FS7 I? I'm into Live Event Videography (I need SGI out) and short films... possibly shooting for Netflix/Amazon etc... I'm also interested in the Sony A7 III (or the upcoming A7S III) as a B-cam to the FS7 or FS5 II??? Will the color MATCH?
Jersey Filmmaker ... and a last thing (sorry) Do the Metabone speedbosters increase the F stop and crop on the FS5 also? Is the AF ok when lenses are adapted to the FS5 and A7SII?
Cler Mond I completely disagree. I would’ve gone through the same process whether I made an episode about it or not. So definitely not a waste of my time. As for the audience, maybe not the most helpful, but you can definitely learn from my mistakes (i.e. the type of media cards needed). It can actually very valuable to learn from other’s failures. Now if you use these cameras you’ll know what not to do, so I may have actually saved you time 🤔
I think Cler Mond is incredibly rude. You fell on the sword a bit too much. Anybody that works in the real world knows these things happen. I appreciate what you did, and thought you were too hard on yourself. Oh and SHOCKER! Cler Mond has zero uploads! Of course the critic who contributed nothing.
Interesting. I'm about to exchange my C100 Mark I because I'm getting the same results. I love the footage quality I get with the Canon 5D Mark IV, so I need something similar for video only but with a low budget, any recommendations?
You did screw up a bit without doing enough pre work, but good on you for owning it. We all do this from time to time, but very few of us admit to it. :)
I like the fact that the FS5 came back for a bit. I'm still getting used to mine. Any chance you can cover attachments for an FS5. Online seems grim on this subject.
Michael Michel what kind of attachments are you referring to? Like cages and such? I don’t know that there is all that much that is specific to the FS5 besides a couple cages and cheese plates. But if you add those, you can then attach whatever it is you like!!
Good on you for doing this exercise. I'm guessing you learned heaps which is what this sharing business is all about. I also learnt a bit from your experience too. Well done.
So funny, I ran into the guys from Atomos and they are located inside that same complex in Industry City. Hoping to hop down there sometime soon to hang. Great video, brother.
You should redo these tests with a shogun inferno attached. That way you aren't limited in your codecs. Also with the inferno you can shoot with raw, which if you're used to grading red footage will be more familiar. The fs5 has a notoriously bad internal codec. Also when shooting in Slog on the fs700/fs5/fs7 you need to either use a lut or a waveform monitor (both available on the inferno) to overexpose by two stops, that will keep the noise floor down and ensure your skin tones look best, especially in low light.
Joe's Cinema a couple things, we did the tests with a Sumo19 attached (which is pretty much a shogun inferno times 3 lol) but obviously didn’t record to it. I wanted to test the internal codecs because 90% of the time that’s what I’m shooting to. I’ve shot in Sony raw before and don’t think it the difference in quality between that and slog warrants the amount of media it takes up. I don’t love Sony raw and never ever shoot in it (R3D files however 🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼). I also own an FS7 and have shot slog plenty, so I know to over expose, but wasn’t sure what to do with the Panasonic V-log, which is another reason why I think I need to redo this test. Anyways, just wanted to touch on those points. Thanks for watching and for chiming in!! 👊🏼👊🏼
i hate when people say stuff like this without even using the camera. A Lot of cameras are 4k 8 bit 420. As he said in the video he feel as though he did something wrong. I own an fs5. You do not need the shogun to make the camera shine... this isnt the fs700. I've used the raw and I see no difference.
I suppose it depends on the type of work you are doing. Truth be told you are correct to assume I have not used an fs5, but an fs700. From everything I've seen the raw output is practically identical among the two, but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. What do you think he could've done better? I think the lighting had a lot to do with it.
Custom white balance and applying a lut that looks good maybe. He didn't have the new firmware on the FS5 either so that 2000 base iso would have helped. If you shoot at the pre-update base ISO 3200 without over exposing 2 stops you are also going to get a muddy image with color noise. I use a smallhd monitor with an overexposure lut to make life easier. the HD on the fs5 is exactly the same as the 4k since its using the full 4k sensor. I never use the 4k unless I have too. The shogun will give it 10 bit 422 but even then I didn't think it was worth it so a small jump in image quality. I guess for the latitude it would have been better.
Yeah, I think a custom white balance would have made the correction a lot easier. Does the fs5 down sample the 4k to get HD? I know one the main problems with 2k on the fs700 is that it uses line skipping and binning which introduces some aliasing.
Why didn't you just shoot on a SSD with the Atomos Sumo you could have done Pro Res Raw. Actually Im looking to buy one of these two cameras for the Profes feature . But I like to see which gives better quality.
Oleg Covian because I very very rarely record externally. So I wanted to test the internal codecs of the cameras. Shooting ProRes Raw would’ve defeated the point this test for me. However, I would like to test PRR sometime soon!!
I thought you did a great job with this comparison, and are a true pro being so self-critical. You actually pointed out something about the EVA-1 that I've never heard before, the media card. That's nuts! I don't think the Micro (or Mini) P2 card was right either, but damn - what is somebody supposed to use for media? If a facility like Abel doesn't have the right SD card, how in the world are we trusting to take this into the field? Panasonic may have made a huge mistake with the media requirements. Sorry for the marathon comment, but I was hoping the Panasonic would have looked less ENG and used less expensive media. My first camera was an HPX-170, and I fought the cumbersome P2 workflow in 2008. It took forever to transfer and the cards were so expensive, I couldn't just hand them off to somebody and keep going. Bottom line, you're a very knowledgeable producer, and if these cameras gave you the trouble they did for the images they produced, something is fundamentaly wrong.
To the media card comment - you just need to have the per-required-spec'd card v60/or v90 card- available @amaz @bh pretty much everywhere. not a big deal - not sure why able didn't have it on hand unless they didn't know the right spec. I've been shooting with this camera since March - never had a media issue with the v60 cards on any frame rate/setup with the EVA1.
I downloaded your footage since I noticed you were using a colour card. I loaded it into a Resolve 15 beta 6 and I colour matched it using the "Datacolor SpyderCheckr 24" profile. It did the job. The image from the MXF was only slightly flatter before. What is immediately evident is that the lighting is super super shit in terms of mixed colours etc. No amount of turd polishing will fix that in post. The colour card was your best hope. Resolve couldn't decode the video stream from the EVA-1 mov file. So I didn't try anything with that.
Terence Kearns thanks buddy! Yeah the lighting (I though) was going to be great because AbelCine has that area set up with cameras for people to play with, but obviously it’s just a bunch of different lights for display purposes and not great for testing purposes
Hey there, I know I am late to watch this upload but you did an impeccable job at showing what a poor video comparison should look like! Not only did you mention throughout most of your video of how bad of a job you did in this, however you exported and uploaded this anyway. Both of these cameras can produce incredible video quality, but you failed to present this in both areas. When bringing up the idea of using the "auto white balance" feature, and then actually beginning a test with this after stating that you use this in most of your videos really blew me away. I have not seen a single video of yours besides this, but after hearing this statement I don't plan to take the time to click on a video produced by the channel Jersey Filmmaker. It appears you did a horrible job in comparing the two cameras in almost every comparison. You reference slapping on a LUT as though it is used to entirely color correct and grade your footage. You're either just a channel host, or no absolutely nothing about cameras and video production as a whole. To anyone who views this comment, assuming before he deletes it, please disregard this video. It was incredibly done at a below minimum standard of excellence. I would hope better videos exist in the community that can better inform viewers about the potential of each camera. As far as this goes, Jersey Filmmaker, I would highly recommend checking out the new DJI Osmo Pocket, as this seems more so up your alley. If this may initially come off too steep for you, give us an attempt at the GoPro HERO2!
A valid test all the same despite the mistakes which, if we’re all to be honest with ourselves we have made countless times, and will probably continue to on a busy set with limit time and everyday pressures. 👍🏻
If you're 'learning' to use a camera, you can't effectively test it. Better to just shoot it until you're comfortable, then conduct whatever analysis you want.
Agreed, but I didn't have that luxury. It was now or never (or maybe in the distant future lol).
Wow, some are really going in hard on you but I appreciated you honesty. You could have not posted the video. I like this video because of your integrity. In the future, I'd say only test cameras you are familiar with! Your analysis of what you did wrong actually helped me though!
I stopped watching this when you mention auto white balance....
That's too bad because the second set of tests were not awb. Sorry to disappoint you with the first test
I was gonna dislike but in actually fact you gave a real world feedback about how important it is to know your gear. Subbed👌🏿
the eva1 made his shirt look like a nice red (im assuming it was). the fs5 made it pink. Im assuming the eva1 was more accurate?
The base iso in slog3 on the fs5 is 2000 now after the update last summer.
Parallax Peak thanks for the info! Is that with a firmware update? Or are you referring to the FS5 mkii?
Jersey Filmmaker it was the firmware update the also added the HDR function. That firmware is on both versions of the fs5. I myself was happy about that update. Will you be running this test again? I want to see if the eva1 is better or not 😎
Parallax Peak thanks! Shows you how much I shoot with my FS5 lol. I’ve never been overly pleased with it and was hoping the EVA-1 was going to be the replacement, but definitely not after these tests.
I’d like to redo them, but not sure if and when I will
The test was great because it shows that cameras are tools and you have to know your tool to use it well. Any camera in this price bracket can make a great image, equally any can make an aweful one. There is a lot of nonsense about cameras being junk when another brand releases their version. The reality is the differences can be quite subtle and specs dont tell the whole story. Test things to see if they meet your needs.
Enjoyed the vid bud, I would love to have a play in that place!
l m love this comment!! Great points, all so true. They all can render great images if you know what you are doing both in camera and in post 👍🏼👍🏼
Do you think it's possible to match the images between both cameras to cut together for interviews or are the colours too different? I Would like to match an Eva1 with my a7s. Thanks guys
What you may have lacked in critical information you made up for with excellent presentation.
Very good job sir! :)
Which camera are you using to film your videos? Sony A7 II or 1DC II? Great colors and resolution! Thx
Alberto Faccon usually either the FS5 or the A7Sii
Jersey Filmmaker any particular Lut or color grading or straight out of the cameras? They say Sony colors suck but I kind of like them. Also are you using the AF? If so it seems pretty good. I bought a Sony 28-135 F4 lens and I'm waiting to match it with a sony body... I'm split between the Sony FS7 I (Used at $4k) the FS5 II also around $4k... which one would u go for? THe new color science of the FS5 II or the Full body / full features of the FS7 I? I'm into Live Event Videography (I need SGI out) and short films... possibly shooting for Netflix/Amazon etc... I'm also interested in the Sony A7 III (or the upcoming A7S III) as a B-cam to the FS7 or FS5 II??? Will the color MATCH?
Jersey Filmmaker BTW What lens do u use for vlogging on the FS5 and A7S II? Thx.
Jersey Filmmaker ... and a last thing (sorry) Do the Metabone speedbosters increase the F stop and crop on the FS5 also? Is the AF ok when lenses are adapted to the FS5 and A7SII?
what a waste of time for both the audience and yourself if your are testing cameras you have no clue of
Cler Mond I completely disagree. I would’ve gone through the same process whether I made an episode about it or not. So definitely not a waste of my time.
As for the audience, maybe not the most helpful, but you can definitely learn from my mistakes (i.e. the type of media cards needed). It can actually very valuable to learn from other’s failures. Now if you use these cameras you’ll know what not to do, so I may have actually saved you time 🤔
I think Cler Mond is incredibly rude. You fell on the sword a bit too much. Anybody that works in the real world knows these things happen. I appreciate what you did, and thought you were too hard on yourself. Oh and SHOCKER! Cler Mond has zero uploads! Of course the critic who contributed nothing.
Interesting to compare internally recorded video from these two cameras with externally recorded, for example, with atomos shogun.
Interesting. I'm about to exchange my C100 Mark I because I'm getting the same results. I love the footage quality I get with the Canon 5D Mark IV, so I need something similar for video only but with a low budget, any recommendations?
Where do you get the adapter for EF lens
Baja Unknown it’s a Metabones adapter, you can get it at any pro retailer such as B&H or Adorama
Why did you post this?
You did screw up a bit without doing enough pre work, but good on you for owning it. We all do this from time to time, but very few of us admit to it. :)
I like the fact that the FS5 came back for a bit. I'm still getting used to mine. Any chance you can cover attachments for an FS5. Online seems grim on this subject.
Michael Michel what kind of attachments are you referring to? Like cages and such? I don’t know that there is all that much that is specific to the FS5 besides a couple cages and cheese plates. But if you add those, you can then attach whatever it is you like!!
Good on you for doing this exercise. I'm guessing you learned heaps which is what this sharing business is all about. I also learnt a bit from your experience too. Well done.
I look up the LitraTorch LEDs you used and find out that they have only 70 CRI, which means the colour will definitely be shitty.
So funny, I ran into the guys from Atomos and they are located inside that same complex in Industry City. Hoping to hop down there sometime soon to hang. Great video, brother.
you don't use slog3 on lowlight scenes it just defeat the purpose of slogs (more dynamic range), cine 4 should suit well
That is strange. There are definitely a couple of things that you can complain about the EVA1 but not the image. Have you used it since them?
You must be trolling with this test...
You should redo these tests with a shogun inferno attached. That way you aren't limited in your codecs. Also with the inferno you can shoot with raw, which if you're used to grading red footage will be more familiar. The fs5 has a notoriously bad internal codec. Also when shooting in Slog on the fs700/fs5/fs7 you need to either use a lut or a waveform monitor (both available on the inferno) to overexpose by two stops, that will keep the noise floor down and ensure your skin tones look best, especially in low light.
Joe's Cinema a couple things, we did the tests with a Sumo19 attached (which is pretty much a shogun inferno times 3 lol) but obviously didn’t record to it. I wanted to test the internal codecs because 90% of the time that’s what I’m shooting to. I’ve shot in Sony raw before and don’t think it the difference in quality between that and slog warrants the amount of media it takes up. I don’t love Sony raw and never ever shoot in it (R3D files however 🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼). I also own an FS7 and have shot slog plenty, so I know to over expose, but wasn’t sure what to do with the Panasonic V-log, which is another reason why I think I need to redo this test. Anyways, just wanted to touch on those points. Thanks for watching and for chiming in!! 👊🏼👊🏼
Gotcha, thanks for the response! Love your channel!
Why does the graded fs5 look more videoish, instead of cinematic like eva? Is it the color? Or like sharpening?
Probably because the internal codec is terrible 8 bit 4:2:0. Really need a shogun inferno to make this camera shine
i hate when people say stuff like this without even using the camera. A Lot of cameras are 4k 8 bit 420. As he said in the video he feel as though he did something wrong. I own an fs5. You do not need the shogun to make the camera shine... this isnt the fs700. I've used the raw and I see no difference.
I suppose it depends on the type of work you are doing. Truth be told you are correct to assume I have not used an fs5, but an fs700. From everything I've seen the raw output is practically identical among the two, but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. What do you think he could've done better? I think the lighting had a lot to do with it.
Custom white balance and applying a lut that looks good maybe. He didn't have the new firmware on the FS5 either so that 2000 base iso would have helped. If you shoot at the pre-update base ISO 3200 without over exposing 2 stops you are also going to get a muddy image with color noise. I use a smallhd monitor with an overexposure lut to make life easier. the HD on the fs5 is exactly the same as the 4k since its using the full 4k sensor. I never use the 4k unless I have too. The shogun will give it 10 bit 422 but even then I didn't think it was worth it so a small jump in image quality. I guess for the latitude it would have been better.
Yeah, I think a custom white balance would have made the correction a lot easier. Does the fs5 down sample the 4k to get HD? I know one the main problems with 2k on the fs700 is that it uses line skipping and binning which introduces some aliasing.
Why didn't you just shoot on a SSD with the Atomos Sumo you could have done Pro Res Raw. Actually Im looking to buy one of these two cameras for the Profes feature . But I like to see which gives better quality.
Oleg Covian because I very very rarely record externally. So I wanted to test the internal codecs of the cameras. Shooting ProRes Raw would’ve defeated the point this test for me. However, I would like to test PRR sometime soon!!
I thought you did a great job with this comparison, and are a true pro being so self-critical. You actually pointed out something about the EVA-1 that I've never heard before, the media card. That's nuts! I don't think the Micro (or Mini) P2 card was right either, but damn - what is somebody supposed to use for media? If a facility like Abel doesn't have the right SD card, how in the world are we trusting to take this into the field? Panasonic may have made a huge mistake with the media requirements.
Sorry for the marathon comment, but I was hoping the Panasonic would have looked less ENG and used less expensive media.
My first camera was an HPX-170, and I fought the cumbersome P2 workflow in 2008. It took forever to transfer and the cards were so expensive, I couldn't just hand them off to somebody and keep going.
Bottom line, you're a very knowledgeable producer, and if these cameras gave you the trouble they did for the images they produced, something is fundamentaly wrong.
To the media card comment - you just need to have the per-required-spec'd card v60/or v90 card- available @amaz @bh pretty much everywhere. not a big deal - not sure why able didn't have it on hand unless they didn't know the right spec. I've been shooting with this camera since March - never had a media issue with the v60 cards on any frame rate/setup with the EVA1.
It's a cine cam, you record raw externally to a recorder. Or get a DSLR.
I downloaded your footage since I noticed you were using a colour card. I loaded it into a Resolve 15 beta 6 and I colour matched it using the "Datacolor SpyderCheckr 24" profile.
It did the job. The image from the MXF was only slightly flatter before. What is immediately evident is that the lighting is super super shit in terms of mixed colours etc. No amount of turd polishing will fix that in post. The colour card was your best hope.
Resolve couldn't decode the video stream from the EVA-1 mov file. So I didn't try anything with that.
Terence Kearns thanks buddy! Yeah the lighting (I though) was going to be great because AbelCine has that area set up with cameras for people to play with, but obviously it’s just a bunch of different lights for display purposes and not great for testing purposes
I own the EVA 1.....paired with the Atomos it destroys everything in its class except the G2....but the G2 weights a ton......
What is the CRI of your LEDs? That may be the cause of your poor looking colors
Sorry it didn't work out for you. Auto white balance is a total no no.
Hey there,
I know I am late to watch this upload but you did an impeccable job at showing what a poor video comparison should look like! Not only did you mention throughout most of your video of how bad of a job you did in this, however you exported and uploaded this anyway. Both of these cameras can produce incredible video quality, but you failed to present this in both areas.
When bringing up the idea of using the "auto white balance" feature, and then actually beginning a test with this after stating that you use this in most of your videos really blew me away. I have not seen a single video of yours besides this, but after hearing this statement I don't plan to take the time to click on a video produced by the channel Jersey Filmmaker.
It appears you did a horrible job in comparing the two cameras in almost every comparison. You reference slapping on a LUT as though it is used to entirely color correct and grade your footage. You're either just a channel host, or no absolutely nothing about cameras and video production as a whole.
To anyone who views this comment, assuming before he deletes it, please disregard this video. It was incredibly done at a below minimum standard of excellence. I would hope better videos exist in the community that can better inform viewers about the potential of each camera.
As far as this goes, Jersey Filmmaker, I would highly recommend checking out the new DJI Osmo Pocket, as this seems more so up your alley. If this may initially come off too steep for you, give us an attempt at the GoPro HERO2!
A valid test all the same despite the mistakes which, if we’re all to be honest with ourselves we have made countless times, and will probably continue to on a busy set with limit time and everyday pressures. 👍🏻
Dean Director 👊🏼👊🏼
Keep shooting chief and stop wasting peoples time.
these tests should be as if you were filming a scene. not setting up like you're doing a photoshoot. no cinematic looking test. horrible tests.
sucks for a video too
Man, don't upload junk, please. It wastes everyone's time.
What a waste of resources👎